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Memo Shows Bush Administration Says to Hell With Fourth Amendment Rights

By Liliana Segura, AlterNet. Posted April 10, 2008.


News that the Bush administration threw out the Fourth Amendment after 9/11 is a sobering reminder of the lawlessness of its spying program.
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News last week of former White House lawyer John Yoo's recently disclosed 2003 memo positing, among other things, that the president's authority as commander in chief allows him to override federal laws prohibiting "assault, maiming and other crimes" against suspects in the "war on terror" was followed by a second revelation: an alarming footnote on page 8 referring to another secret memo, written shortly after 9/11, and, in the name of national security, dispensing with the Fourth Amendment.

In the age of the "war on terror," according to the footnote, the Department of Justice "recently concluded that the Fourth Amendment had no application to domestic military operations." (Emphasis in the original.)

The Fourth Amendment, of course, lays out "the right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures." Critics of the Bush administration's warrantless wiretapping program -- which was started in the same weeks the memo was written -- have staked their claims in part on its violation of this right. Proof that the program originated at the same time that the White House officially jettisoned the Fourth Amendment in the name of national security is a damning -- if not surprising -- revelation.

There's been a good deal of debate already over whether or not this 2001 memo actually laid the groundwork for the Bush administration's so-called "Terrorist Surveillance Program," which was exposed in December 2005. The White House has claimed that it had nothing to do with it, with press spokesman Tony Fratto telling reporters that the program "relied on a separate set of legal memoranda." But as the legal underpinnings of the Bush administration's vast power grab are unraveled, the memos offer a window into the radical mindset and ruthless political culture operating in the White House. As tedious and stultifying as the ongoing legislative debate over FISA has been, the Yoo memo is a sobering reminder of the lawlessness at the root of the government's spying program -- and why we should still be paying attention.

Speaking of paying attention: In case there was any doubt, no, Congress and the White House have not yet agreed upon an updated version of the FISA bill. After an endless series of discussions, false starts, shameless, 24-inspired GOP propaganda ads, and one ridiculous countdown clock -- on March 14, to Bush's dismay, the House passed a version of the FISA bill that omitted immunity for telecoms. This was the day after Bush had appeared on the White House lawn and tried to shame House members into passing the Senate version of the FISA bill, which allows retroactive immunity for telecoms. "Companies that may have helped us save lives should be thanked for their patriotic service," Bush said, "not subjected to billion-dollar lawsuits that will make them less willing to help in the future."

A few weeks later, on April 1, Politico.com reported that House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer had announced that the White House "is now in a position where they want to talk about a possible compromise" on the surveillance legislation. According to Hoyer, Congress and the Bush administration were now working in "a different environment than we were in two weeks ago." No word on what that means, but hints that the White House is willing to negotiate remain dubious. "We've seen this before," wrote True Majority organizer Ilya Sheyman in an action alert sent out on April 2. "Every month or so, the White House floats a new trial-balloon of a possible compromise bill, which inevitably includes immunity for phone companies." Indeed, rather than negotiating the legislation, the Bush administration and his followers in Congress have focused on repackaging it from month to month, with an ongoing PR campaign in between. In public, director of national intelligence Mike McConnell has indulged in Bush's fear-mongering fiction that Congress is simply pandering to their legions of money-grubbing trial lawyer supporters. Systematically distorting the debate, he has claimed, for example, that some in the Senate simply believe "we shouldn't have an intelligence community" and that others "say the president of the United States violated the process, spied on Americans, should be impeached and should go to jail." (Would that our congressman be so bold!)


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Terrorist
Posted by: HeKnew on Apr 10, 2008 2:02 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Pursue the Bush administration beyond January 20 until they are brought to justice.

Direct Democracy

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It just goes to show you
Posted by: vox persona on Apr 10, 2008 2:18 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The invertebrate 'opposition' party was complicit at best in this full scale trampling on the wording and spirit of our Constitution (that GD piece of paper). But the lion's share of scorn should be directed at those 'occupying' the White House; especially smirking chimp the boy emperor and his sidekick DeadEye Dick. 'So What' Cheney wanted so desperately from the beginning to restore/increase the powers of the executive that were on the wane when his boss Gerald Ford held the office in the wake of Watergate. Well, let us hope that the pendulum has swung as far to the right as it is going to, and now we'll see it swing back, like it did with Carter. The only thing is that our current crop of Dems are not much better than Carter calibre, and that is coming from someone who thinks that Carter got a bad rap in places. Let us hope that we don't just get another one-term Democrat, only to be followed by 12 more years of Rethuglican tyranny. Then again, does it matter, doesn't time end Dec. 21, 2012? At least, that is the way Bush has ruled (as if he wanted to bring on the 'end days' single-handedly).

Keith Olberman just re-ran a 'humorous' segment where he held up a giant copy of the bill of rights and X-ed out all the ammendments that CheneyBu$hCo has already shredded. The only one left to us was the 3rd, the one stating that we don'y have to quarter soldiers. That's a relief, with the way this mis-administration treats our soldiers, they may need a place to stay when this is over. Who am I kidding, this Pandora's Box Bush ripped open will guarantee that this mess has only just begun. Let us hope these cretins leave peacefully.

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» RE: It just goes to show you Posted by: willymack
» RE: It just goes to show you Posted by: skewitall
Jail To The Chief
Posted by: Tom Degan on Apr 10, 2008 2:31 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Truth be told, I don't want to see George W. Bush got to jail. Jail is where you go when you've had one too many on a Saturday night and you accidentally back your car into the plate glass window of the local pharmacy. I want to see George W. Bush sent to federal prison for the rest of his miserable life.

The 110th Congress will be remembered as the most cowardly, pathetic legislative body in American history. Never has there been such an abundance of evidence that warranted the impeachment of a sitting president. Ten years ago Bill Clinton was almost removed from office for telling a little white lie about having an affair with a half-witted intern. (It is helpful to remember that he never actually had sex with "that woman, Ms. Lewinsky") Why, then, are Bush and Cheney still in office? Why haven't they been impeached? What the hell is the matter witn these stupid fucking Democrats???

Once again, the Democratic Party has been handed a bottle of finely aged, twelve-year-old scotch and yet these gutless assholes have managed to turned it into donkey piss.

What should have been the most Democratic year since 1932 is slowly but surely turning into an almost safe bet for the GOP. Barack Obama's campaign has been irreparably damaged by Hillary Clinton. Hillary Clinton's campaign has been irreparably damaged by Hillary Clinton. If the party of FDR (GUFFAW!!!) knows what's good for them, they'll come up with a compromise candidate at their Denver convention in August. Barack and Hillary haven't a chance in hell.

And what might your plans for the next eight years be Mr. Edwards?

Tom Degan
Goshen, NY
"The Rant" by Tom Degan

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» TD Posted by: vox persona
» VP Posted by: Tom Degan
» Hypocracy rules Posted by: aussidawg
» Forget the blowjob. Posted by: heathehren
» RE: Forget the blowjob. Posted by: Tom Degan
» RE: Forget the blowjob. Posted by: aussidawg
» RE: Forget the blowjob. Posted by: heathehren
» RE: Jail To The Chief Posted by: JSquercia
» RE: Jail To The Chief Posted by: Dboy
Optimism gone; pessimism waning
Posted by: talkville on Apr 10, 2008 2:32 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"As we await the next "compromise" (or capitulation) on FISA, it's a good time to step away from the endless chatter and take the long view. Revelations like the 2003 memo provide a sobering reminder that, like the White House's torture doctrine, the Bush administration's eavesdropping program was designed in a Constitutional vacuum."

Or any vacuum.

Iraq continues; the next administration, whichever it turns out to be will not solve it; there's too many very vested institutions and individuals in it. They hold Power. Like Prussians and Germans in the 30's.

Disturbing trends arise today as they did then. Right here, today, in our country as well as all other countries of the world. Politics and Economy, global and local. Interests begin to collide: capital/labor; nationalism/internationalism; dominance/submission; rational/irrational; religious/secular.

These days, our Abstract Individual has been re-furbished and re-fashioned: not John Wayne any more but Rambo, physically matching that Military Superiority we now so unquestionably hold. Rambo needs a Moral Superiority to match. The Perfect Moral Man.

All this must be done in a heterogeneous and multifarious society 300 million strong; in relation, Germany was simple; Italy was simple; Japan was simple, in the 1930's. Today, of course, we are much more SENSITIVE about these things -- one cannot unify a nation without some kind of enemy an Other, locally and globally (this one is covered globally: communists still do, but better: "Jihadists"); a National Other is more problematic, given our commitments to reason, science, technology and Idealism. What Other can the Good National American learn to distinguish and segregate as a Bad American? 1930's Germans knew this problem very well -- easier those days: Jews, homosexuals, Gypsies, Slavs, Non-aryans; e.g. ALL not of the Soil and Blood of Germany.

The National Socialists devised quick and far reaching programs to unify, solidarize and gather together all Good Germans behind their program. To reinforce it daily, continuously and completely, however, they needed something more accessible to the individual and the household of every Good German: Aha! Campaigns for Health!! Anti-smoking laws, daily exercises, Fitness Programs, diets, scientific Spas, vegetarianism. Simple and Practical and easy to understand for all -- even the simplest Good German.

Times here in the USA have become Ambiguous.

I use my meagre imagination to construct an Abstract Individual, abstract "Man" to match what seems to be emerging: as hard as I try, what keeps on coming to me is a picture of a Fascist and National Socialist "Man", sternly pious and severely "moral" simple, practical, idealist, great believer in rationalism, science and technology in service not to liberty, not to justice, not to equality, not to dignity, not to integrity or autonomy. In service, physically and morally, to some deeply yearned for Superiority.

It's not only a Constitutional Crisis; we also find ourselves in a deepening Capitalist Crisis and conditions eerily similar to the general contours of the '30's.

I am a smoker. And will continue to be. It's astounding how this "trait" of mine helps me to easily distinguish very clearly where to place Solidarity in questions which regard precisely: Justice, Equality, Humanity, Dignity, Autonomy, Human Rights, and, yes! Ecology. Fascists and Neo-Fascists, Nazis and Neo-Nazis are easy to distinguish, regardless of their covers: light a cigarette in the midst of a Meeting or Event. Responses and Reactions will bring them "out" every time no matter who is sponsoring the event.

Surveillance? Together with the Patriot Acts I and II and HR 1955, that's merely been the beginning! Batten down the Hatches as this capitalist crisis deepens.

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» RE:Delusions are on the rise.... Posted by: boydranchitos
» RE: Delusions are on the rise.... Posted by: walldodger1969
» RE: Delusions are on the rise.... Posted by: Cybershaman
» RE: Delusions are on the rise.... Posted by: brock_samson
» RE: Delusions are on the rise.... Posted by: blitzmesser
Ashamed or Sad
Posted by: JohnJlws on Apr 10, 2008 6:26 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm not sure whether to be ashamed or sad. Ashamed that we have a "leader" who doesn't realize that his primary job is protecting Americans and you do that by embracing, unconditionally supporting and honoring our Constitution and Bill of Rights, not by dismantling them for any reason. And ashamed that we can't follow, and never have (although this last 8 years have been the watershed), our Declaration of Independence, Constitution, Bill of Rights and the rights guaranteed to all citizens, but somehow feel we need to promote our "democracy" through force to the rest of the world.

Sad that we've become the nation we've become led by the corporate elitist we elect. A more stupid people we'd be hard-pressed to find. And, yes, I know if I don't like it here, I'm free to leave--good argument demonstrating a thread of my point of our "democracy."

Now, I read that Obama/Clinton or Clinton/Obama TODAY can't even beat McBush/Condi in New York. Everyone who answered these pollsters was kidding, right? Right? A more stupid people we'd be hard-pressed to find.

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Its so nice...
Posted by: JoshuaLudd on Apr 10, 2008 7:26 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Its nice to see an administration that makes such a big deal about "activist judges" and wants to appoint constructivist judges simply disregarding the law. Well, yeah.. its the law.. but we're going to just say it doesn't apply anymore because we don't want it to. Brilliant reasoning! Just more proof that Bush really just wants sole power in the executive branch.

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» RE: Its so nice... Posted by: Dboy
» RE: Its so nice... Posted by: Lauren
Accountability
Posted by: Southern Gal on Apr 10, 2008 8:09 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Since Bush and his administration have not been held accountable for shredding the Constitution and relegating the Bill of Rights to the trash file, he has no reason to think that anyone or anything can stop him. We have articles in the alternative media and we have some Congressmen/women lamenting about what he's done,but we don't have impeachment proceedings against Cheney and Bush, because "that's off the table".

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» RE: Accountability Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Accountability Posted by: rinthy
» RE: Accountability Posted by: Lauren
Nixon was impeached for the exact same policies
Posted by: fanny666 on Apr 10, 2008 8:18 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
From Article 2, paragraph 2 of Nixon's Letters of Impeachment:

"He misused the Federal Bureau of Investigation, the Secret Service, and other executive personnel, in violation or disregard of the constitutional rights of citizens, by directing or authorizing such agencies or personnel to conduct or continue electronic surveillance or other investigations for purposes unrelated to national security, the enforcement of laws, or any other lawful function of his office; he did direct, authorize, or permit the use of information obtained thereby for purposes unrelated to national security, the enforcement of laws, or any other lawful function of his office; and he did direct the concealment of certain records made by the Federal Bureau of Investigation of electronic surveillance."

Sound familiar?

Your reps can be reached at 202-224-3121

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Strict interpretation
Posted by: sanity on Apr 10, 2008 8:32 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am so sick and tired of the president invoking the "commander and chief" clause to justify breaking the law and violating the Constitution. Conservatives often tout their support for a strict interpretation of the Constitution, yet their interpretation of the "command and chief" clause is as wide as the Grand Canyon. For the record, it states, "The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States..." The last I heard, the Justice Department, CIA, FBI, and NSA are not part of the Army or Navy and so neither their activities, nor the president's supervision of these agencies, are governed by this clause.

On a side node, when Giuliani backed out of the presidential race and endorsed McCain, he started his speech, "There is no one more qualified to be the next commander and chief of the United States". Someone needs to clue him in that the president is the commander and chief of the Army and Navy, not the United States. This is a distinction lost on conservatives.

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» RE: Strict interpretation Posted by: nikolai
» RE: Strict interpretation Posted by: sanity
» RE: Strict interpretation Posted by: nikolai
What Constitution?
Posted by: aussidawg on Apr 10, 2008 9:02 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why should it be any surprize to anybody at this point that the Bu$h administration has trashed (more probably is trashing as we speak) the fourth amendment. He has NEVER shown any regard whatsoever for any law, be it domestic or international. If he contends that the actions he has taken, actions that obviously do violate the law, actions such as torture, wiretapping, pre-emptive war, are legal because he is doing so in the name of national security as a wartime president, why is he seeking retroactive immunity from prosecution for these violations?

I find it unbelievable and infuriating that a president can so blatently violate so many domestic and international laws, ignore new laws passed by congress through the use of signing statements, and pass such blatently unconstitutional legisation such as the Patriots Acts I & II, the MIlitary Commissions Act, and the Warner Defense Act, and have no apparent opposition whatsoever from either the so called opposition party OR the American people in general. Now he is claiming that congress MUST PASS his warrentless wiretapping law WITH retroactive immunity for the telecom companies, and it must be passed fast before anymore terrorist plots go undiscovered. Interesting thing though, if the law does not include immunity for the telecoms, he has said he will veto it. If this were such a major tool to protect America, it would seem that immunity for the telecoms would be a minor point, but NOOOO, it's not. Bottom line is Mr. Bu$h is trying to cover his ass and cover it as quickly as possible. Unfortunately, given the past track record of our trusty democrats in congress, he will eventually get his way, as usually.

Anybody out there remember Eddie Chiles? Well, if so, and if he is still out there...I'M MAD TOO EDDIE!

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» RE: What Constitution? Posted by: willymack
» RE: What Constitution? Posted by: aussidawg
» RE: What Constitution? Posted by: Dboy
Why can't the CIC be ousted???
Posted by: nikolai on Apr 10, 2008 9:18 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What I don't understand about the CIC title is that it seems to give the president UNLIMITED powers over the military, thus, UNLIMITED POWER. Do I have that right? It sure seems so.
With that said, isn't it a fact that if a military commander, ANY military commander, is inept, corrupt, traitorious, or insane he can and will be relieved of duty by his subordinate(s)? If so (and I know it IS so) then why hasn't bush been relieved of duty? Is the president/CIC untouchable no matter what, until they leave office? Why does a president have to be impeached, which is basically a politcal manuever, rather than simply being ousted, jailed and tried? Just because it hasn't been done before doesn't mean there can't be a first time!

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This is why we have the Right to Bear Arms.
Posted by: jeffrey7 on Apr 10, 2008 9:26 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Actually the 4th Amendment rights were watered down while we were all fixated on the O.J. trial. Thrth is they're been after our civil rights for generations. Yes even your great grandparents had their corrupt governments to deal with. They we still part of the violent overthrow crowd. We however don't have to take that path. Don't expect any help from the democrats either. They want the population disarmed. That's why we see so many kid-gun comericals on TV. They use fear to control you. Even set up some horrific things to help change public opinion on whatever.
It's time we told BOTH PARTIES to 'shove it!!!' We have to root out every person that thinks the people need controling and a strong military policy and ban them form office or running for office. It's time we take back our media. Hit them where it hurts....their sponsors. Stop buying products advertised on news programming. In fact stop watching the news altogether. They are the enemy of the people also. Stop making your kids sign up for the draft. Stop paying your taxes. That's another little gem that was given a sun-set time after WW@,guess they were hoping we'd forget about that one,but guess what,we're supposed to be tax free by 1948. That day's come and gone,let's get our lives back. We must demand our rights be respected, or remove the oppressors from office. We must have to courage to stand against a corrupt governance and remove it from power. We must control those industries that woudld poison everything with their emissions.We should boycott the vote. Pass on the election. See,first hand,just how corrupted this system is.Then flush it down the crapper. Believe me,they have that same plan for you.
Draft Jeffrey7 for Prez '08

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Two choices: Either clean out the White House or give up ALL our rights!
Posted by: HughScott on Apr 10, 2008 9:27 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Recent polls indicate John McCain might just become our 44th president.

That CANNOT happen! No matter how you feel about the Democratic Party, for the sake of our kids and their offspring, we must breach the Top Secret inner sanctum at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave and uncover the biggest collection of traitors in U.S. history.

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» RE: McCain Posted by: Dboy
» RE: McCain Posted by: Lauren
memory hole retrieval:
Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Apr 10, 2008 9:35 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The timeline of events, from cooperative research:

July 10, 2001: FBI Agent Sends Memo Warning that Unusual Number of Muslim Extremists Are Learning to Fly in Arizona.

August 6th, 2001: PDB to President Bush: Bin Laden Determined to Strike in U.S.

Clandestine, foreign government, and media reports indicate Bin Ladensince 1997 has wanted to conduct terrorist attacks in the U.S. Bin Laden implied in U.S. television interviews in 1997 and 1998 that his followers would follow the example of World Trade Center bomber Ramzi Yousef and "bring the fighting to America. . .

FBI information since that time indicates patterns ofsuspicious activity in this country consistent with preparations for hijackings or other types of attacks, including recent surveillance offederal buildings in New York."


It only gets better:
August 21, 2001: FBI Headquarters Blocks Criminal Investigation into Moussaoui

Dave Frasca of the FBI’s Radical Fundamentalist Unit (RFU) denies a request from the Minneapolis FBI field office to seek a criminal warrant to search the belongings of Zacarias Moussaoui, who was arrested on August 15 as part of an intelligence investigation. . .Minneapolis agents believe they had uncovered sufficient evidence that Moussaoui is involved in a criminal conspiracy, and want to obtain a criminal search warrant instead of a warrant under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA). But because they originally opened an intelligence investigation, they cannot go directly to the local US attorney’s office for the warrant. In order to begin a parallel criminal investigation, they must first obtain permission from the Office of Intelligence Policy and Review (OIPR) so they can pass the information over the “wall.”

Harry Samit, a Minneapolis FBI agent on the Moussaoui case, calls Dave Frasca, the head of the Radical Fundamentalist Unit (RFU) at FBI headquarters, to discuss the request. Samit tells Frasca that they have already completed the paperwork for a criminal investigation, but, according to Samit, Frasca says, “You will not open it, you will not open a criminal case.” Frasca says that argument for probable cause in seeking a criminal warrant is “shaky” and notes that if they fail to obtain a criminal warrant, they will be unable to obtain a warrant under FISA. Samit, who has only been with the FBI since 1999, defers to his superior, and writes on the paperwork, “Not opened per instructions of Dave Frasca.”

Samit then tells his Chief Division Counsel, Coleen Rowley, about the conversation, and she also advises him that it would be better to apply for a warrant under FISA. When the Justice Department’s Office of Inspector General (OIG) interviews Frasca after 9/11, he will claim he never spoke to Samit about this matter, and that the conversation was with Chris Briese, one of Samit’s superiors. However, Briese will deny this and the OIG will conclude that the conversation was between Samit and Frasca. To get a FISA search warrant for Moussaoui’s belongings the FBI must now show there is probable cause to believe Moussaoui is an agent of a foreign power. A criminal warrant to search Moussaoui’s belongings will be granted only after the 9/11 attacks.


So, the original pre-911 FISA law was fine - the problem was with the people who were supposed to implement it. Consider also that the NSA approached Joe Nacchio, ex-CEO of Qwest six months before 9/11 over the domestic spy program, according to him. At least Nacchio has a new trial now.

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Why is this surprising?
Posted by: meetmeineleusis on Apr 10, 2008 9:54 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The 4th amendment has been null and void since the initiation of the war on drugs.

Vehr are your papers?!

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» RE: Why is this surprising? Posted by: Lauren
Damn, Americans are stupid!
Posted by: QQOblivion on Apr 10, 2008 10:37 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I posted this in relation to an article about torture's "legality" being discussed among Bush, Cheney, and other higher-ups, but it fits here too, sadly:

Keep in mind that many Americans, probably even a majority, believe (wrongly) that IF Bush and Cheney and the rest had done ANYTHING illegal, then they would have been impeached by now!
(Because, you see, according to these Americans, the Democrats in Congress are SO partisan that they would have JUMPED at the chance to impeach if there was ANY merit to the "wacko" Left's views that serious crimes have been committed by those at the top.)

There are actually many people who really believe this!

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BUSH..the worst eight years ever in the history of US politics
Posted by: Pennyhead on Apr 10, 2008 10:48 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
America's youth wants to see a new president. President Bush has lied to the American people, discredited our name as United State citizens and has sent innocent YOUNG American's to fight his OWN BATTLES

This isn't right. But, is there really hope with Obama? McCain? Or Hillary?

This could POSSIBLY BE one of the WORST presidential candidate pools ever. See what America’s Youth is saying about each of the candidates, what they have done for the campaigns and for OUR future on www.YourThreeCents.com

linked text

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the part that gets me...
Posted by: lexicon on Apr 10, 2008 12:14 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm just thinking about how a "John Yoo" could even come to be in a position to make legal determinations, and how somehow, "any old joe" in the Dept of Justice (i.e. Yoo), could come up with something so MONUMENTAL as declaring part of the Constitution null-and-void, without somehow having at least a JUDGE look at it, or SOMEONE.

I mean, its not like the guy was deciding something like whether perishable food items confiscated under a warrant needed to be returned, or whether federal employees were entitled to COBRA benefits 60 days after their last paycheck, instead of 60 days after their separation date...

I mean, it's the damn CONSTITUTION.

Of course, I am an idiot for even assuming that something so monumental and CORE to our very system of beliefs would get PEER REVIEW within the Ashcroft, Gonzalez, or Mukaskey Justice dept.

"peer review", I'm sure, consisted of, "Hey, excuse me...please sign this sheet attached to this sealed envelope."

The problem is, that there is no stomach for going after these guys among the people that have a duty to.

So, the White House "relies" on the Judiciary to provide legal basis, and therefore the illegality of their actions is not "criminal" in nature (thus goes Mukaskey's theorem). This would be laughable EVEN IF the judiciary was independent...but where the judiciary is a lock-step partisan arm of the administration, it fails EVERY smell test.

I mean, just because you can find a (probably very eloquent) crackpot to tell you that the earth is flat, doesn't really make it so, right?

I'm not confused by the act itself...I have come to expect nothing better from Cheney and crowd...but I'm confused as to why we're all helpless to do anything?

lexicon

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» RE: the part that gets me... Posted by: lexicon
How dare Senators and House members
Posted by: chabuka on Apr 10, 2008 2:15 PM   
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especially Nancy Pelosi, stand there telling us impeachment is "off the table"...? How dare they..they should all be thrown in prison along with Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Gonzales, Rice and Powell


We should burn their brickhouse down

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I seem to remember
Posted by: hurricane hugo on Apr 10, 2008 2:46 PM   
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Reagan pissing all over the 4th Amendment back in the '80s.

jdfu!

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There is going to be...
Posted by: motamanx on Apr 10, 2008 4:24 PM   
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a lot of "memos" surfacing from now on. And none of them will make the Bush/Cheney cabal look very good. This is all as it should be.

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ITS ALL HERE DO WE HAVE THE GUTS IS THE QUESTION?
Posted by: master09 on Apr 10, 2008 10:37 PM   
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IN CONGRESS, July 4, 1776.

The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America,

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.

1.He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.
2.He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.
3.He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures. .
4.He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.
5.For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws, and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:
6.For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.
7..He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.
In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury.

8. A Prince whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.

These are words from oue beloved DECLARATION OF INDEPEDENCE people!

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» just a goddamn piece of paper Posted by: KaptainSpiffy
It all started with NIXON
Posted by: UnEasyOne on Apr 11, 2008 3:59 AM   
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There was a time when the fourth amendment actually had teeth. If police wanted to search your home or vehicle, they actually had to get a warrant, knock on your door, and serve it.

"No knock" drug laws, initiated for the war on hippies misnamed the "war on drugs" were initiated under Nixon and the Supreme Court fascists he nominated eviscerated the 4th amendment long ago.

Rulings have said that if cops erroneously bust you on an invalid warrant and search you in "good faith," it's a good search. they have ruled that a motor home on concrete blocks with no wheels or engine is a vehicle and thus subject to warrantless search.

The long and the short of it is that there are few circumstances in which the 4th has any meaning at all. I have been screaming about this for 30 years; nice to see it getting some attention.

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On the Other Hand...
Posted by: Dboy on Apr 30, 2008 2:48 PM   
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We did not "lose" the 4th or any other amendment. You have to question the motives of someone who pretends to think that Bush can wipe away pieces of the Constitution by waving a magic wand (or magic swastika).

The truth is that ALL of our Constitutional rights are still INTACT. The president does not have the legal power to do what the article claims, therefore it's all unlawful. However, what's NOT intact is Congress or the Supreme Court. This government has gone rogue. It's not a matter of losing the 4th, it's about the entire system as it was set up being reduced to 'a god-damned piece of paper'. This is a rogue state, therefore it's "laws" that it is supposedly passing are all a sham.

When you get called for jury duty, if it's a "criminal" case where there was no victim (such as drug cases, prostitution, etc), get yourself voted as jury foreman, and get a "not-guilty" vote..regardless of the evidence.

Stop buying stuff. The less money you spend, the less money goes to their tax coffers. Forget McCain temporary gas-tax removal. Buy less gas! Ride a bike! At the very least, plan your outings so you can get multiple things done on one trip, to use less fuel.

Re-work your career so you can generate cash income and remove yourself from the federal income tax system. It's not THAT hard. The people are no longer represented, therefore govt has no right to collect taxes. They have *guns*, but no legal right, because this government is not legal. This is taxation without representation..gee what happened the LAST time?

If you just *have* to have a corporate job, learn about monkey-wrenching, and go at it. If you work at a smaller company, run by actual humans instead of fascist robots, then fine, be a good loyal employee; but use a bit of your resources to at least help get the word out. You can do this by supporting things like Z-Magazine ( http://www.zcommunications.org/ ) and of course Alternet.

When you hear stupid people repeat some bit of propaganda they ingested from fox news or other government media source, correct them..embarrass them...humiliate them...slap them silly...do whatever it takes to snap them out of their zombie trance.

The way to resist right now is non-cooperation (it's not yet time for violent revolution). If you buy into the lies they are telling, if you treat them as if they are legitimate, then for you, yes you lost the 4th.

dboy

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