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The Coming Showdown on Gun Control

By Rhonda Brownstein, Southern Poverty Law Center. Posted March 13, 2008.


The Supreme Court's ruling in District of Columbia v. Heller may be the most important decision on gun control in U.S. history.
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The stage is set for a historic showdown this month between gun enthusiasts and gun control advocates. The United States Supreme Court will hear a case on March 18 that should determine the meaning of the Second Amendment -- the hotly contested and fiercely debated part of the Constitution that guarantees "a right to keep and bear arms." The court will decide whether this guarantee protects an individual's right to have a gun for private use, or whether it only ensures a collective right to have guns in an organized military force such as a state National Guard.

The high court will review a decision of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia that struck down Washington, D.C.'s flat-out ban on the private possession of handguns. The District outlawed handguns in 1976 in an effort to crack down on violent crime. (The vast majority of firearms-related crime involves handguns.) D.C. residents are permitted to keep shotguns or hunting rifles at home, but even those weapons must be disassembled or have a trigger lock. The stakes are high, not only for the district, but for Chicago, which also has an outright ban on handguns, and for many states and cities nationwide that have enacted other tough restrictions on guns.

Most people are familiar with the Second Amendment's phrase that "the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." But the Second Amendment's full text states: "A well-regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." In the past, lower courts, focusing on the amendment's opening phrase, have ruled that it protects only a state's authority to maintain "a well-regulated militia," not an individual's right to own a gun for his or her private use. In fact, the D.C. Court of Appeals ruling that is now before the Supreme Court marks the first time a federal appeals court has ever declared that a gun law violated the Second Amendment.

In its only other decision directly involving the Second Amendment, rendered almost 70 years ago, the Supreme Court upheld a man's conviction for transporting a sawed-off shotgun across state lines, ruling that possession of such weapons was not protected by the Second Amendment, whose "obvious purpose" is the "preservation or efficiency of a well-regulated militia." (United States v. Miller, 1939.) Proponents of gun bans frequently cite this earlier decision, but many court observers believe that the current Supreme Court will overturn or limit this precedent.

Those in favor of restrictions on firearms argue that a plain reading of the text of the Second Amendment, as well as the amendment's history, demonstrates that the amendment was concerned with state militias, not with the rights of individuals. They point out that, at the time the Second Amendment was drafted, most states were concerned with maintaining a viable state militia to defend the state against any possible invasion. They also point out that the use of the phrase "to keep and bear arms" was explicitly a military phrase, lending further support for their position that the amendment must be understood as only protecting the collective right to arm a militia.

On the other side of the debate are many gun owners, led by the National Rifle Association and the gun lobby. They argue that the Second Amendment was intended to protect the rights of individual Americans to defend themselves, not only to protect the rights of the states to form militias. They point out that the Bill of Rights, the first ten amendments to the U.S. Constitution of which the Second Amendment is a part, was almost entirely a declaration of individual rights intended to protect personal liberty. (Even if the court strikes down the D.C. law and rules that individuals have a constitutional right to possess handguns, its decision is not likely to void all firearms regulations, such as those regulating concealed weapons and forbidding convicted felons from owning guns.)

The one point on which experts agree is that the Supreme Court's ruling in District of Columbia v. Heller may be the most important decision on gun control in our nation's history.

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See more stories tagged with: supreme court, second amendment, gun control, nra, district of columbia v. h

Rhonda Brownstein is the director of the Southern Poverty Law Center's Legal Department.

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Posted by: Xynyx on Mar 13, 2008 4:30 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It sure is vague sometimes.

"A well-regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Does anyone else see the problems with the punctuation in this statement? It's like there are two subjects... and the subjects are separated from the predicate by a comma... making it difficult to understand just what was intended.

Now, I'm not going to stand solely on what the founding wealthy white men might have intended... I think we need to be more open to other needs than that. But maybe they wanted the statement to be somewhat ambiguous just so that it could be interpreted liberally? Or maybe they wanted to ensure that lawyers would have job security throughout all eternity...

I guess I'm inclined to read it, more or less, as follows:

"A well-regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, shall not be infringed." AND "The right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed."

Apparently, people need to be free to keep and bear arms in order to be able to serve in a well-regulated militia... but I don't see anything here that suggests that the keeping and bearing of arms is to be exclusively limited to the purpose of serving thusly.

Let the fighting begin. I guess we'll see what the Supreme Court Justices and Assholes do soon enough. I don't have any confidence that they will come to a sane conclusion... and regardless of the conclusion they reach, plenty of screaming will follow.

Yippee!

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» RE: nglish... Posted by: supercrisp
» Don't give a shit Posted by: donl51
Guns-for-all
Posted by: scootenat65 on Mar 13, 2008 6:42 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So the Supremes, lead by John "I owe it all to GW" Roberts and his team of right leaning conservatives are gonna decide if we should be able to have all the guns we want for any purpose we want um. Can't see a problem for the NRA there. Why, heck, after they rule we will be able to use M-60s to hunt rabbits and gatlin guns to protect our homes. This is gonna be great. I am getten ready to try and get one of them no bid contract to open a local kindergarten gun range. I think Big Dick Cheney will be up for it.

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» Another Roe Posted by: Swatopluk
» RE: Guns-for-all Posted by: buzzsaw
» My rights Posted by: donl51
Only the Political Stakes are High
Posted by: bandofotters on Mar 14, 2008 6:03 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The stakes are high, not only for the District, but also for Chicago, which also has an outright ban on handguns, and for many states and cities nationwide that have enacted other tough restrictions on guns
_________________________________________

These same entities with tough gun control still cannot control violence whether perpetrated with or without a gun. If you take away one of their best scapegoats then the electorate will then have to focus more on real change (or the lack there of).

The other issue is one of individual rights. God forbid that our politicians might be forced to give us more freedom to choose. There is more in the language of the Second Amendment to suggest an individual right than there is in the whole Constitution regarding the right to privacy and the right to an abortion.

Another unintended consequence of “re-establishing” gun ownership, as an individual right, is all of the free time that our politicians will then have to dream up more ways to take away our freedoms, to control us. Isn’t there some law that can be passed to make smoking, under certain conditions, a felony? Oh, and let’s have a total national ban on trans fats (which are definitely not good for you) because we are too stupid to make that health decision on our own. Oh, the time on their hands to dream up more ways to take away our freedom! Maybe I should be on the other side of this issue after all.

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True interpretation
Posted by: rickiey on Mar 14, 2008 9:00 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If the Supreme court interprets this in favor of gun control, they are abusing their power.

It is not "subject to interpretation", it was written very logically, and it makes sense.

"A well-regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

The first part of the amendment, is the justification for the right:"A well-regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State".

The second part of the phrase is the right itself: "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.".

Any other "interpretation" is simply the twisting of words, and an abuse of power.

While I don't personally own a gun, and don't want one, I care most about the constitution itself, and the preservation of it as written.

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» Parsing further.... Posted by: Reality Chick
waypasthadenough
Posted by: waypasthadenough on Mar 14, 2008 1:19 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If you don’t think I should have my guns, you’re the reason I have weapons.
When guns are outlawed, “Liberal” season must begin. Or we will be their slaves.

http://www.willowtown.com/reality/blacksburg.htm

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» RE: waypasthadenough Posted by: HillbillyBob
» RE: waypasthadenough Posted by: waypasthadenough
» RE: waypasthadenough Posted by: mainspark
» Hoo boy Posted by: luckypuck
The argument
Posted by: meetmeineleusis on Mar 14, 2008 2:17 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
that we need a constitutional amendment in order to have a military is laughable. People in the 1700s knew the difference between military and militia.

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» RE: The argument Posted by: donl51
The timing here is important.
Posted by: linecrosser on Mar 15, 2008 4:40 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The thing the government fears the most is a educated and armed public. No child left behind has in fact left them all behind. The MSM has ignored every important issue and concentrated on sex scandals and other trivia. More people can tell you how their favorite movie star or sports hero thinks about which America idol contestant is going to be voted this seasons winner, than can explain the Federal Reserve and how their control of interest rates effects the prices of, well, everything. The government with the help of the media has already taken us into war and poverty. The only right we have left is gun ownership. Soon as they can take it away we won't live in America any more. Oh sure the borders will still be on the maps, but what's inside will truly be a dictatorship. The media in all forms, will stand behind and in front of the government telling the apathetic public why out of a base population of over 300 million we can't find any better leaders than we have now, so their just going to stay in office.

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The right of the people . . .
Posted by: C. M. Tullis on Mar 18, 2008 6:26 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Okay, given is the claus, "A well regulated militia being necessary. . ." This claus does not inherently give the right to limit firearm possession by any state government. To argue that it does so would be to completely ignore the very plainly stated, ". . . the right of the PEOPLE [emphasis added] to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

THe 2nd amendment conspicuously and very plainly says nothing about, "the right of the STATE to keep and bear arms. . ."

That said, I would think that it should be quite clear that the right to keep and bear arms is a right reserved to the PEOPLE. State governments, and local governments and jurisdictions have no more authority than the federal government to pass the Draconian gun control legislative acts which they have passed or ratified since the 1939 Supreme Court ruling in United States v. Miller.

The weakening of the 2nd amendment is but the first step to weakening the other amendments to our constitution which protect the individual citizen's liberties. For without the limitations of the 2nd amendment being placed upon our government, what prevents that government from continuing to force its will upon an unarmed populace as it usurps other rights and priviledges that are ". . .reserved to the states, or the people respectively." ?

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Consider when the consitution was written
Posted by: Laughingman on Mar 18, 2008 11:14 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Constitution was drafted and written after the former subjects of a monarch decided they'd rather have the ability to rule themselves than let someone who ruled only because of his family and blood.
Back then the greatest fear was that someone would rise to the level of power of judge, jury and executioner. The idea of allowing weapons to everyone wasn't just for individual protection, but for protection of the Union itself, from threats both internal and external.
This is not an attack on anyone of whatever view points may be held, but gun laws get to the point where it is only legal for the trained members of society (police, military, ect.) then the only people who will have guns will be the criminals and the trained members.
It is naive to think that with a law that everyone will listen, as it is now the majority of deaths by guns come from unregistered individuals with without the proper licensing, if you really want to stop that and clean up the places where this is taking place crack down on the manufacturers of the guns in the first place. Money leaves a trail, follow it from the factory to the streets or where ever it may lead.
And anyone that says that it either isn't their fight to do that or they are fighting, it isn't working. You need to fight in a way that works, just as the War in Iraq can't be won (and shouldn't since administration's definition of winning would be a completely subjugated people, whose will to live has more or less been crushed) in the way it's being fought now, you can't get the results you want by doing it this way.
I cannot live with the idea of being unable to defend myself if the need arises.
And what if the government were to become completely corrupt? Think like something out of 1984 or a military backed dictatorship.
At that point, according to Benjamin Franklin it is the citizen's duty to dispose of and reinstate the government.
I'm not sure if anyone posted anything like this, and I'm sorry that I don't know, but I'm more or less busy, but felt that this was important enough to say something about. So if this was written already and if I'm stealing anyone's thunder, my bad.
It is an American's duty to make sure that the country is in good shape. Maybe it's not a nice or easy duty, but it is the price we pay for living in a country where we're free to pursue those nice ideas.
Or it is where we should be living.

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It seems simple enough to me
Posted by: TagsNOLA on Mar 19, 2008 2:57 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"A well-regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

There are some Constitutionally mandated assumptions in the above verbiage which assumptions are debatable only within the context of debate on a Constitutional amendment.

We are commanded by the Constitution to ASSUME (whether we agree or not) that "a well regulated militia is necessary to security of the state (OUR state, which is free, presumably).

We are commanded to assume that there exists a right to bear arms. Implicitly, it is clear that, under certain circumstances, this right (to bear arms) might under certain circumstances be abridged in order to promote some higher good of the commonweal.

BUT, also implied in the verbiage is the assumption that the non infringement of this right to bear arms is somehow conducive to maintenance of a "well regulated militia." So this right, which might otherwise be abridged under certain circumstances, must not be abridged because the right to bear arms is conducive of maintenance of a well regulated militia which is essential to the security of our free state.

Doesn't matter whether you agree or disagree with the assumptions here unless you are prepared to argue for repeal or revision of the Second Amendment. (Methinks that is a very tall order.)

As for me, I will not give up my handgun. I never take it outside. I keep it in my house. I have no kids and no kids ever come into my house. I would never bring out my weapon as a "show of force." I would only bring out the weapon in my house to protect my life or the life of someone else against a lethal threat by an intruder. Once the weapon comes out the decision to shoot to kill has been made.

Here in New Orleans, thugs are breaking into our homes, finding the occupants at home and killing us. We need a weapon to defend ourselves. Newsflash: A rifle or a shotgun is not the kind of weapon you want in close quarters inside your house.

It is not unreasonable for law abiding citizens like me to expect to be allowed to defend our lives with a handgun. And regardless of the motivation behind the framers of the Federal Constitution, their verbiage affords me the right to do so.

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EVRY BODY HAS A RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS
Posted by: JEDIDAD1138 on Mar 19, 2008 6:09 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
SUPPORT YOUR CONSTITUTION.
I DO NOT OWN A GUN I MIGHT GET ONE ONE DAY BUT IT IS NOT IMPORTANT TO ME THAT I HAVE ONE. IF I WANT TO BUY A GUN I SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO. I AM VERY LIBERAL I HAVE TWO DAUGHTERS AND A WIFE. ALL OF US SHOULD BE ABLE TO PROTECT OUR SELVES AGAINST PEOPLE. THERE ARE SOME SICK PEOPLE OUT THERE AS WELL AS THE EVER PRESENT DANGER OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT DESTROYING AMERICA BY IGNORING THE CONSTITUTION. ONE DAY YOUI MAY HAVE TO FIGHT FOR YOUR RIGHTS AND I MEAN REALLY FIGHT FOR THEM BY HAVING A REVOLT. THE CONSTITUTION CAN ONLY BE PRESERVED IF WE GUARD EVERY RIGHT NOT JUST WHAT WE BELIEVE IN OR WHAT WE BELIEVE WHAT IS RIGHT. LIBERALS HAVE TOTALLY DESTROYED THE CONSTITUTION JUST AS MUCH AS CONSERVATIVES. YOU HAVE TO BEWILLING TO KILL FOR WHAT YOU BELIVE IN. I AM SURE MOST OF YOU WOULD DISAGREE BUT YOU ARE THE CAUSE OF ALL OUR PROBLEMS. THERE IS NO LIGHT SIDE OR DARK SIDE THERE IS ONLY THE TRUTH.

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Robert Halfhill
Posted by: Robert Halfhill on Mar 19, 2008 8:53 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Everyone knows that at the time the Constitution was adopted, people did not keep their guns in some central, government repository. They kept them in their homes and on their persons.
And the right to keep and bear arms must have the meaning that it was then seen as having. And if you disagree that individuals should have this right, the proper course for you is to try to amend the Constitution. If Congress, state legislatures, or City Councils can infringe on this right, how will you feel if they start infringing on your freedom of speech or religion? Or your right to a trial by jury?

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What? Again?
Posted by: luckypuck on Mar 19, 2008 10:22 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This batch of Supremes (a misnomer if there ever was one) will suck up to the NRA just as every other politician does.

In the beginning was the War of Independence. The brand new United States government could not afford to arm their only army, i.e., the various state militias who also could not, or chose not to arm their militias. The militias were composed of all the able-bodied men of a city or a state. They all had to have guns because they were the first defense against any enemies: The French in Canada, the Spanish in Florida, roving bands of criminal marauders, hostile natives, those bloody Royalist soldiers. That's why the amendment is written the way it is.

Few people in the colonies went around their towns and cities carrying arms unless they were going hunting, travelling great distances, or carrying a ceremonial sword of office. Even duelling, either with swords or pistols was in ill-favor and even banned in some states/colonies. There were some infamous duels, but they were the exception to the rule.

Those who think the Constitutional amendment addresses individual rights can only do so by ignoring the subject phrase, "a well-regulated militia." But the phrase is there. It can only be ignored by the ignorant (including the increasingly activist Supreme Court justices).

That serves another purpose, a well-regulate militia has regulations. The militia's officers devised and enforced those regulations. Anyone who was not the able-bodied of the militia were not regulated. Why would the founders put that phrase in there if not to mean that those who carried arms for a state purpose didn't need to be regulated? And if that's the case, and it is, then the amendment's intention to allow militia men to own guns didn't and doesn't apply to those who weren't militia men.

The question that always needs to be asked and rarely is: What do we do about the violent, immoral people who have guns? The NRA and their dupes say, do NOTHING. Let anyone, moral or immoral, buy any arms and armament they want.

KKK, Skinheads, drug dealers, bank robbers, Republicans. Let them buy semi-automatic weapons that can be made automatic by sticking a matchstick in just the right place. Let them buy armor-piercing ammo. Let them buy rocket launchers, cannons, bazookas, mortars; the operative word here is "buy."

The NRA does NOT represent hunters, target shooters or collectors. Nor do they represent the 2nd Amendment. The NRA twists and turns the 2nd amendment so as to better represent the corporate interests of the weapons industry: "Armor vincit omnia materiae lucrum vincit omnia." Transl.= Armor conquers all is means profit conquers all. (I just made that up.)

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Every OTHER Western democracy has gun control laws-why NOT the USA?
Posted by: Woodpecker on Mar 20, 2008 4:19 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Question for the NRA and its political groupies(albeit from the UK)- why does almost every other Western democracy have strict gun controls without impinging on their citizens' freedoms( UK and other EU member states, Canada, Australia, Japan, Canada, Mexico et al)- the sole exception being the US? So much for the argument that guns are needed to not just preserve the liberty of citizens from a tyrannical regime but also from criminals and presumably terrorists(contrary to NRA propaganda, the Civil Rights Movement was purposesfully unarmed and Communism in Eastern Europe and ultimately the USSR collapsed with a whimper and not a bang).
From where I sit, the NRA is less the friend of hunters, law enforcement or inner city residents( several NRA spokesmen have meade egregiously racist comments about African Americans which have NEVER been repudiated by the leadership of this group), and more an ally of gun manufacturers and shops!

Anybody care to dispute this charge?

Terry

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» RE: Dispute?yes! Posted by: donl51
The language was a compromise
Posted by: greenknight on Mar 20, 2008 5:22 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The amendment as originally proposed said nothing about militia - that bit was added to satisfy some who were uncomfortable with a blanket right to bear arms. There was not agreement then, so it was left open to later interpretation.

Militiamen in those days did keep weapons in their homes, though; it was nothing like today's National Guard.

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The Keeping of Guns ... a bit of history
Posted by: rafey on Mar 20, 2008 6:12 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Many people believe that our forefathers actually walked around toting their arms. Not so. Until failry late into the 19th Century, arms were kept locked in a town bunker. One or another chosen and trusted individual possed the key. Unlocking the bunker was only performed following discussion, debate and by vote of the citizenry. Use of the arms was primarily to protect the town or village from Indians or other perceived transgressors and later, following the founding of the nation, they were designated to protect the citizens from unwarrented or unjust (read unconstitutional) transgressions by the government against its citizens. Unfortunately, by the time the James Brothers, et. al. fell victim to the assertion of eminent domain, forcing them to reliquish their property for a rediculously minimal value for the purpose of running the "iron rail" West, most folks had taken up arms on their own because they lived so far apart in the rural mid west. In such cases, a bunker would have proved useless.

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We have to stop arguing with the Constitution
Posted by: dgleason on Mar 20, 2008 6:24 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Part of the reason the Bush administration has been able to start decoupling the constitution in the pursuit of 'unitary executive' are the lessons it learned from the left on how to play fast and loose with the constitution.

Seems too many of us are willing to be flexible with what is clear intent.

The constitution protects the right to keep and bear arms. Anyone who doubts that the founders were talking about something different is making up stories. They meant their personal guns. The militia thing was an additional right asserting that the people had a right to form militia's with their personal guns to be able to overthrow a perceived as unjust government (remember they were revolutionaries justifying their own actions.)

It is vital to our national security that we stop playing footsie with the constitution from both sides.

The test of American patriotism, as evidenced by all of our oath's of office, is the willingness to protect and defend the constitution. Not what religion you are, not what you think about 9/11, not where you stand on the abortion issue.. it is, and continues to be the constitution.

about time we remember this!

Danielle

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Regulation
Posted by: Reality Chick on Mar 20, 2008 9:43 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If, then one is making the argument that the term 'militia' refers to the common people, which thereby purports to state that the common man cannot be deprived of his 'right' to arm himself, then we have only to look at the second/third word of the amendment to see that they specifically built in the need for regulation, i.e. gun controls. If Joe Blow is part of this amorphic 'militia', he is contstitutionally required to be regulated in his use of his armament. Therefore, it is unconstitutional NOT to have regulatory laws.

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I'm Confussed?? The Problem is
Posted by: Andie927 on Mar 20, 2008 10:14 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I was raised on a farm, we had NO locks on the doors, but LOADED guns behind them! At 6 yrs. old, you learned how to shoot, and the harm a gun could do!

Okay, you have the Right to Bear Arms! No Problem! (you have the Right to drive a car too! After your licensed, & insured, if you don't abuse the priviledge)

Why do these gun rights advocates, claim that getting a license, and registering their guns, (I'd like to see mandatory Insurance, for damages or injury, caused by the GUN, even if stolen) a Restriction on their Rights???

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» RE: I'm Confused? The Problem is Posted by: independent1
It seems to me. . .
Posted by: NamVeT on Mar 20, 2008 12:08 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
that if we the public are disarmed it would be easier for them (the bad guys {the repubs})to control the population and make it easier to get herded into all of those "holding pens" being built around the country. What's that old saying: "You can have my gun when you pry my cold dead fingers from it".

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» RE: It seems to me. . . Posted by: donl51
Then And Now
Posted by: DaPoorChimp on Mar 20, 2008 7:24 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Y'know folks, I don't really think the amendment is all that difficult to grasp, provided one keeps in mind the conditions of the times in which it was crafted: back then, the incipient USA didn't have much in the way of a standing army---indeed, was not even supposed to have one for a duration exceeding two years, absent continual Congressional renewal of funding (See Section 8, the "Enumerated Powers" section, of the Constitution). The states, which, prior to the ratification of the Constitution, considered themselves essentially sovereign nations, did have militias. And, for the most part, the way one joined one's state's militia was to show up WITH ONE'S OWN SWORD, MUSKET AND PISTOL. The states were not inclined to maintain large armories for distribution to guys who turned up empty-handed, though I'm certain there were exceptions.
This practice stands in marked contrast to that of our time, where the Army or Marine recruit or volunteer is issued a nice, shiny new M-16 assault rifle and M-9 Baretta sidearm, courtesy of the American taxpayer.

I think it's also important to understand that many of the Founders, particularly Jefferson and Madison and those likeminded, were deeply concerned about the potential for tyranny of ANY overly concentrated nexus of power, INCLUDING our own Federal capital, and that the presence of armed citizens and their state militias (however they came to be equipped?) were to serve as a counter-balance to the possibility of a home-grown King George III.

Incidentally, the reason that many on the gun rights side dispute the interpretation that the 2nd Amendment refers to what we today would call the National Guard of the various states is that, far from acting as a counter-balance to concentrated Federal power, these "militias" themselves merely act as arms of the Federal forces, despite bearing the appellations, somewhat ridiculously, of this or that state's national guard.
After all, why are they called NATIONAL guard units, and not STATE guard units?

Look no further than the composition of American forces fighting in Iraq in support of this view.

Anyhow, stripped of the excessive emotionalism surrounding this issue---one side fearing tyrannical centralized power and being shorn of the ability to effectively defend itself from both that and more quotidian threats, the other scared to death by the spectre of 179 million heavily armed crazies rampaging through the streets like someting out of a Mad Max movie---I think the intention of this amendment was, and is, rather transparent: to have guys with guns available to defend, by force of arms, specifically, their own states. Thus, the Federal government, which might, after all, turn out to be the enemy, is prohibited from keeping those guns out of the citizens' hands.

If this is indeed the meaning of the amendment, then perhaps the correct approach, if we intend to maintain what might otherwise become the fiction of the Constitution as the law of the land, is to seek a Constitutional Amendment to modify the Second Amendment?
The national debate such a move would ignite might be just what the doctor ordered.

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» RE: Then And Now Posted by: luckypuck
» RE: Then And Now Posted by: independent1
Gun control: extremists on either side
Posted by: independent1 on Mar 23, 2008 7:20 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The gun control debate has been going on since Bobby Kennedy's assassination. We have two "results" from this 40 year time waster:
1. Nothing in all the scores of new gun control regulations enacted by federal, state and city government has affected "gun crimes" in the least.
2. The debate continues - proving that the opposing parties are simply true believers on opposite sides of the issue and that means we should ignore them all and start spending time on how to prevent criminals rather than crimes.

Based on pure, practical logic, the anti-gun group comes off looking "most silly" but the pro-gunners have their crackpots too. But lets just go with the really safe and sane resolution to gun ownership: Lets let the legal owners of guns alone. That way - they can use their legally obtained firearms for sport and for self-defense.

That way we won't let the terrified liberals walk us right into the land of: only police and criminals will have guns, goodbye citizen rights, good by freedom. Funny that liberals traditionally mistrust police but will give them (and criminals) a monopoly on deadly force. Or didn't you terrified fools figure that out yet?

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