COMMENTS: 42
Cost of Iraq War Now Beyond Human Comprehension
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Deputy Secretary of Defense Paul Wolfowitz championed the $60 billion figure, but added that much of the cost might well be covered by Iraqi oil revenues; the country was, after all, floating on a "sea of oil." ("To assume we're going to pay for it all is just wrong," he told a congressional hearing.) Still, let's take that $60 billion figure as the Bush baseline. If economists Joseph Stiglitz and Linda Bilmes are right in their recent calculations and this will turn out to be more than a $3 trillion war (or even a $5-7 trillion one), then the Bush administration was at least $2,940,000,000,000 off in its calculations.
That definitely qualifies as a ballpark figure for an administration that never saw a budget estimate for one of its imperial dreams that it couldn't hike. Take just one of its major "reconstruction" projects: getting the vast U.S. embassy staff out of a former palace of Saddam Hussein and into a brand-new, almost Vatican-sized "embassy," a genuine mother ship, being built from the ground up inside Baghdad's heavily fortified (and often heavily shelled) Green Zone. Originally scheduled to open in mid-2007, what will undoubtedly be the largest "diplomatic" mission on the planet was initially budgeted for $592 million. Predictably, its price tag soared another $144 million, and now comes in at $736 million, as yet unopened. In December 2007, the State Department officially certified it "substantially complete," but, as with most Bush administration construction projects in that country, it remains in a state of staggering unreadiness; two of the State Department employees who worked on it are now "under criminal investigation"; and the State Department is dragging its feet about handing over relevant documents to Congress. Ho-hum.
Nothing, of course, has been cheap for American taxpayers who are financing the Bush administration's war policies. It's been like putting up money for an administration staffed by shopaholics let loose in Neiman Marcus or gambling addicts freed to roam Las Vegas with no betting limits.
But what does money matter? After all, this administration has been spending as if there were no tomorrow. And now, with tomorrow staring them in the face, the latest scare tactic seems to be claiming that doing anything about present policies will simply be ... too expensive. Not long after the price of oil crested above $103 a barrel, Karl Rove, for instance, predicted that any serious "redeployment" from Iraq would mean ... $200 a barrel oil.
Sigh ... Fortunately, we've got William Hartung, director of the Arms and Security Initiative at the New America Foundation, to try to put Bush spending policies in its wars of choice into perspective. -- Introduction by TomDispatch editor Tom Engelhardt.
War is Hell, But What the Hell Does it Cost? One Week at War in Iraq and Afghanistan for $3.5 Billion
By William D. Hartung
War is hell -- deadly, dangerous, and expensive. But just how expensive is it?
In a recent interview, Nobel Prize-winning economist Joseph Stiglitz asserted that the costs of the Iraq war -- budgetary, economic, and societal -- could reach $5 trillion.
That's a hard number to comprehend. Figuring out how many times $5 trillion would circle the globe (if we took it all in one dollar bills) doesn't really help matters much, nor does estimating how many times we could paper over every square inch of Rhode Island with it. The fact that total war costs could buy six trillion donuts for volunteers to the Clinton, Obama, McCain, and Huckabee campaigns -- assuming a bulk discount -- is impressive in its own way, but not all that meaningful either. In fact, the Bush administration's war costs have already moved beyond the human scale of comprehension.
But what if we were to try another tack? How about breaking those soaring trillions down into smaller pieces, into mere millions and billions? How much, for instance, does one week of George Bush's wars cost?
Glad you asked. If we consider the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan together -- which we might as well do, since we and our children and grandchildren will be paying for them together into the distant future -- a conservative single-week estimate comes to $3.5 billion. Remember, that's per week!
By contrast, the whole international community spends less than $400 million per year on the International Atomic Energy Agency, the primary institution for monitoring and preventing the spread of nuclear weapons; that's less than one day's worth of war costs. The U.S. government spends just $1 billion per year securing and destroying loose nuclear weapons and bomb-making materials, or less than two days' worth of war costs; and Washington spends a total of just $7 billion per year on combating global warming, or a whopping two weeks' worth of war costs.
So, perhaps you're wondering, what does that $3.5 billion per week actually pay for? And how would we even know? The Bush administration submits a supplemental request -- over and above the more than $500 billion per year the Pentagon is now receiving in its official budget -- to pay for the purported costs of the wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, and for the Global War on Terrorism (GWOT). If you can stay awake long enough to read the whole 159-page document for 2008, it has some fascinating revelations.
For example, to hear the howling of the white-collar warriors in Washington every time anyone suggests knocking a nickel off administration war-spending requests, you would think that the weekly $3.5 billion outlay is all "for the troops." In fact, only 10% of it, or under $350 million per week, goes to pay and benefits for uniformed military personnel. That's less than a quarter of the weekly $1.4 billion that goes to war contractors to pay for everything from bullets to bombers. As a slogan, insisting that we need to keep the current flood of military outlays flowing "for Boeing and Lockheed Martin" just doesn't quite have the same ring to it.
You could argue, of course, that all these contracting dollars represent the most efficient way to get our troops the equipment they need to operate safely and effectively in a war zone -- but you would be wrong. Much of that money is being wasted every week on the wrong kinds of equipment at exorbitant prices. And even when it is the right kind of equipment, there are often startling delays in getting it to the battlefield, as was the case with advanced armored vehicles for the Marine Corps.
But before we get to equipment costs, let's take a look at a week's worth of another kind of support. The Pentagon and the State Department don't make a big point -- or really any kind of point -- out of telling us how much we're spending on gun-toting private-contract employees from companies like Blackwater and Triple Canopy, our "shadow army" in Iraq, but we can make an educated guess. For example, at the high end of the scale, individual employees of private military firms make up to 10 times what many U.S. enlisted personnel make, or as much as $7,500 per week. If even one-tenth of the 5,000 to 6,000 armed contract employees in Iraq make that much, we're talking about at least $40 million per week. If the rest make $1,000 a week -- an extremely conservative estimate -- then we have nearly $100 million per week going just to the armed cohort of private-contract employees operating there.
Now, let's add into that figure the whole private crew of non-government employees operating in Iraq, including all the cooks, weapons technicians, translators, interrogators, and other private-contract support personnel. That combined cost probably comes closer to $300 million per week, or almost as much as is spent on uniformed personnel by the Air Force, Army, Navy, and Marines.
By one reliable estimate, there are more contract employees in Iraq alone -- about 180,000 -- than there are U.S. troops. There are thousands more in Afghanistan. But since many of these non-military employees are poorly paid subcontract workers involved in cooking meals, doing laundry, and cleaning latrines, the total costs for the services of all private-contractor employees in Iraq probably runs somewhat less than the costs of the uniformed military. Hence our estimate.
So, if $650 million or so a week is spent on people, where does the other nearly $3 billion go? It goes for goods and services, from tanks and fighter planes to fuel and food. Most of this money ends up in the hands of private companies like Boeing, Lockheed Martin, and the former Halliburton subsidiary, Kellogg, Brown and Root.
The list of weapons and accessories paid for from our $3.5 billion is long and daunting:
- $1.5 million for M-4 carbines (about 900 guns per week);
- $2.3 million for machine guns (about 170 per week);
- $4.3 million for Hellfire missiles (about 50 missiles per week);
- $6.9 million for night vision devices (about 2,100 per week);
- $10.8 million for fuel per week;
- $5 million to store and transport that fuel per week;
- $14.8 million for F-18E/F fighter planes per week (one every four weeks);
- $23.4 million for ammunition per week;
- $30.7 million for Bradley fighting vehicles (10 per week).
And that's only a very partial list. What about the more mundane items?
- "Laundries, showers, and latrines" cost more than $110,000 per week;
- "Parachutes and aerial delivery systems" cost $950,000 per week;
- "Runway snow removal and cleaning" costs $132,000 per week;
- Flares cost $50,000 per week.
Some of these figures, of course, may cover worldwide military operations for the U.S. armed forces. After all, by sticking the acronym GWOT in the title of any supplemental war-spending request, you can cram almost anything into it.
Then there are the sobering figures like: $2.4 million per week for "death gratuities" (payments to families of troops killed in action) and $10.6 million per week in "extra hazard pay."
And don't forget that all the death and destruction lurking behind these weekly numbers makes it that much harder to get people to join the military. But not to worry, $1 million per week is factored into that supplemental funding request for "advertising and recruitment" -- not enough perhaps to fill the ranks, but at least they're trying.
Keep in mind that this only gives us a sense of what we do know from the public Pentagon request; there's plenty more that we don't know. As a start, the Pentagon's breakdown of the money in its "emergency" supplemental budget leaves huge gaps.
Even your own congressman doesn't know for sure what is really in the U.S. war budget. What we do know is that the Pentagon and the military services have been stuffing more and more projects that have nothing to do with the fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan, or even the war on terror, into those war supplementals.
Layered in are requests for new equipment that will take years, or even decades, to build and may never be used in combat -- unless the Iraq war really does go on for another century, as John McCain recently suggested. These "non-war" items include high-tech armored vehicles and communications devices for the Army as well as new combat aircraft for the Air Force.
Even though these systems may never be used on our current battlefields, they are war costs nonetheless. If they weren't inserted into the supplemental requests for Iraq and Afghanistan, they might never have been funded. After all, who wants to vote against a bill that is allegedly all "for the troops," even if it includes weapons those troops will never get?
These add-ons are not small change. They probably cost in the area of $500 million per week.
Given all of this, it may sound like we have a fair amount of detail about the costs of a week of war. No such luck. Until the "supplemental" costs of war are subjected to the same scrutiny as the regular Pentagon budget, there will continue to be hundreds of millions of dollars unaccounted for each and every week that the wars go on. And there will be all sorts of money for pet projects that have nothing to do with fighting current conflicts. So don't just think of that $3.5 billion per week figure as a given. Think of it as $3.5 billion ... and counting.
Doesn't that make you feel safer?
[Source Note: Readers who want to check out the latest Department of Defense supplemental request for war-fighting funds can click here (PDF file) and read, "FY 2008 Global War on Terror Pending Request" from the Office of the Secretary of Defense.]
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Posted by: HeKnew on Mar 5, 2008 1:03 AM
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There's no statute of limitations on genocide.
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» What We Are Up Against
Posted by: TarryFaster
» Have I got it? Am I right?
Posted by: nigelbest
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Posted by: vox persona on Mar 5, 2008 1:37 AM
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» And then: The Truth of 9/11.
Posted by: JoAnne
» RE: And then: The Truth of 9/11.
Posted by: Zimbly
» RE: This is what I've been saying
Posted by: master09
» There is an alternative to violent revolution. It doesn't work.
Posted by: opmoc
» RE: This is what I've been saying (Kucinichesque)
Posted by: Ripcord
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Posted by: Mister_PsyOps on Mar 5, 2008 2:51 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Nothing about this global war is remotely sane or justified. Not one thing.
This is about blood money.
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» RE: Costs of False "war on terror" are about Corporate Monopoly Profit
Posted by: Badger1492
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Posted by: talkville on Mar 5, 2008 3:20 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We've already reified "The Economy" into a living breathing throbbing entity that just seems to 'act' in ways independent of us; Corporations are duly sitting in in their "fictitious person-hood", penetrating this and opening that and acting independently of us. Why not Reality?
Could it be "Twilight of the Idols" or "A Rebirth of Tragedy"?
A good Lottery might solve the problem. 1st human to figure out the cost of the Invasion and Occupation of Iraq (affectionately called "The War") wins (put in your favorite award here). One thing's sure: Wall Street and Washington aren't too concerned about it. But if it cost $1, it cost too much for a long time to come. There ARE a few exceptions, of course, and they've taken care and are taking care of their non-participation in payment as we speak.
And the players aren't simply National or Domestic any more: it's a global thing it's a macro-macro-economy for sure. But who will be bearing the costs has been demonstrated time and time again historically; it won't be different this time either. Doing the same thing over and over and over again but bigger and bigger each time -- expecting a different result... I've heard that somewhere in reference to mental states.
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Posted by: manatthewindow on Mar 5, 2008 4:02 AM
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It's taken the Banksters the best part of eighty years to siphon off four trillion dollars of the people's wealth into their swag bags.
Now, after two terms of the worst Presidency in history, the Mal-Administration has doubled the American people's debt liability to the Money Masters.
Congress allowed this.
The Senate allowed this.
The Judiciary allowed this.
The People allowed this.
The prospective candidates for the Presidential Office continue to ignore this.
The Bush Administration: TRY 'EM AND FRY 'EM
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» See "The Money Masters":
Posted by: JoAnne
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Posted by: opmoc on Mar 5, 2008 4:02 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The objective was always obvious - to steal / control the richest sources of energy supplies on the planet.
The total financial destruction of Western economies was started even earlier when Reagan and Thatcher adopted Milton Friedman's economics. This resulted in the shutdown of most wealth creating industries in the West - and their transfer to South East Asia.
Having realised that we had already effectively impoverished ourseleves - the only solution seemed to be Smash and Grab.
Western Governments have basically become armed robbers where the death and mutilation of Millions of People is tagged "colateral damage" and public outrage is subdued by psychological control via the media that gives the impression that it is just a computer game.
The only way forward is to bring The War Criminals to Trial - starting with the Politicians. Under interrogation they will almost certainly reveal the source of the real evil.
We then need to start trying to make reperations for the destruction we have caused.
Basically ordinary Americans and British deserve to become the Slaves of the Countries we have destroyed - because we are Guilty too.
We allowed our Governments to do this. Even when it was obvious - we actually voted them back into power to continue it - both Bush and Blair.
We still have time to save ourselves from the hell we have created on Earth. But we've got to start doing the morally correct things. And by morally correct - we need to start respecting that human beings all over the planet are people just the same as your family and friends. They feel pain and they cry just like us. We need to realise that we are committing one of the worst attrocities ever in human history and stop doing it. If we continue the human race will not survive.
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Posted by: PJAW on Mar 5, 2008 5:22 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Oil was $36 a barrel when Bush declared war and Iraq is estimated to have about 115 billion barrels of known reserves. If we had offered them $40 a barrel, we could have bought 50 of those 115 for 2 trillion dollars.
Iraq would be a functioning country today and we would not have turned 4,000 of our soldiers into landfill. There would be other benefits as well, but It think you get the point.
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Posted by: modeler on Mar 5, 2008 5:40 AM
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» "Bush is equal to the worst fascists in history if not worse."????
Posted by: harryf200
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Posted by: TarryFaster on Mar 5, 2008 6:56 AM
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Posted by: heriza on Mar 5, 2008 7:03 AM
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http://youtube.com/watch?v=Wnq6cD5jk1Q
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Posted by: Doggycuny on Mar 5, 2008 9:06 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Now they are angry little children, cause they got out-smarted by their retard! And the retard has ruined their country. DOH! I guess nobody in the world told them about politicians lying! Learnt any lessons America? Learn anything from Vietnam? Yeh? No? Maybe? Have you heard of Vietnam? You should have read about it in your coloring books at school!
It's okay America. Don't feel bad. That's just the way it is. You vote for your retard. Your retard becomes president (funny how a Head of State epitomizes the 'spirit of the nation'.) You believe everything that dribbles from the retards mouth. The retard scares you with talk about the boogeyman and monsters. You give up your liberties to the retard. You send your sons and daughters to die for your retard in a country you know nothing about. Then you get angry with the retard for lying and being a retard. Then when you're Fox News comes on you'll forget you were ever angry and put your baby pacifier back in your mouth. Good baby!
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» "Some" people doesn't mean everyone
Posted by: LeeAnnG
» RE: "Some" people doesn't mean everyone
Posted by: Doggycuny
» RE: "Some" people doesn't mean everyone
Posted by: Cybershaman
» which is why I still support Kucinich
Posted by: Ripcord
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Posted by: Thebigkate on Mar 5, 2008 9:51 AM
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http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/04/opinion/04herbert.html
This is what Obama needs to be focusing on and getting out to the voters!!!!! Hillary Clinton is not interested, because she wants to keep big military spending. But, please, this is tragic!!!!!!
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Posted by: LeeAnnG on Mar 5, 2008 10:58 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So when Americans hear that the war costs $1 trillion or $2 trillion, it probably doesn't register. One way to break through is to reduce the numbers down to the smallest possible increment. The following estimate is based on $3.5 billion per week.
In order to earn $1 billion at one dollar per second, it would take around 33 years. So let's assume exactly 33 years. OK - that's $1/second
But we are talking about $3.5 billion, so we have to pump it up to $3.5/second.
However, that would take 33 years. What if it took only 1 year? We have to multiply our result by 33, bringing the cost to $115.5/second.
And, finally, since it's not one year, but one week, we have to multiply the result one more time by 52. The final cost per second - if indeed the estimate of $3.5 billion per week is correct - is a grand total of $6006 every second of every day.
That's $360,360 every minute. So every minute of every day, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, we could pay three teachers a salary of over $100,000 for the year.
That's just for starters. Our roads, bridges, libraries, schools, health care needs, and many other necessities are being neglected while the Bush Administration squanders our tax dollars on an unprecedented scale. But the vastness of the amount is so unimaginable that it's hard to grasp.
I've done the math several times, but I'm not a mathematician. I just did a little multiplication and came up with those results. If anyone has different conclusions, I'd be glad to adjust. But in any case, this is an outrage.
If any courageous soul in the media were to start examining these figures, presenting them to the public, and then comparing the cost of the invasion and occupation to what the money could be used for, it might actually have an impact.
Hey, Obama! If you really want to talk about the war and get people's attention, here's a very good place to start. If the war is not on people's minds, but the economy is, why not equate the two as they should be and wake people up a little?
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» no war + decent health care = better economy
Posted by: garciamukamuka
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Posted by: JayHaden on Mar 5, 2008 11:35 AM
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Posted by: stellabloo on Mar 5, 2008 2:18 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I know you alternet readers vote but For The Love of God - in the next election, please not only vote yourselves but if necessary, DRAG some disaffected emo punk or such along with you and make a difference this time - please (seeing as us canadians are supposed to be polite) ;)
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Posted by: sofla100 on Mar 5, 2008 2:24 PM
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» RE: Good Jub Bush: The Iraq War Made America China's Bitch
Posted by: richholland
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Posted by: HeKnew on Mar 5, 2008 4:39 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
http://www.warresisters.org
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Posted by: peridot on Mar 5, 2008 9:41 PM
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Posted by: bobtr900 on Mar 6, 2008 1:29 PM
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Are Hag-ee, Dobson, Reed, Norquist, daddy Booosh and Jeb Booosh and their friend David Duke and the pro-life and family values set going to pay for this war, their war. Is any one on the religious/ racist right going to pay for this war?
Are the oil companies going to pay for this war out their profits and the profits of their shareholders? Are any of the no-taxers going to pay for this war? Limbaugh you big fat ass this means you and your no tax friends.
NOT one damn friggin penny are the aforementioned going to pay for this war. We the taxpayers, we the people, are going to pay for this war. It has been shoved down our throats and yet we must pay for it.
I will never for as long as I live let another no-taxer ever get away with saying no taxes in my presence. And that includes those who are in my own family.
I think I'll send a bill for this war to my local Bishop Lennon, of the Clevelnad Catholic Diocese. Hellloooo Bishop Lennon here comes another email that you are not going to like, but the Iraqi and our troops families like it far less so I don't care that you don't like it because I hate what you have chosen to he a party to. And don't you dare tell me that the Pope spoke against this war because you and he did exactly nothing to stop it. And your actions say everything, while your phony words mean nothing. Same as your fiscal conservative pro-life and family values friends.
I sure as hell am not going to pay for their war. They wanted it so they must pay for their killing spree. They dance with Satan and now they must pay for their evil.
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» And don't forget the "good" Pope Pius XII...
Posted by: ShrubtheWarcriminal
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Posted by: wonderpulp on Mar 6, 2008 5:31 PM
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Posted by: ShrubtheWarcriminal on Mar 6, 2008 6:01 PM
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The only other answer is that they are complicit in destroying the once proud Amerikkka. In other words we have somehow been infiltrated by people destined to destroy this country and it's only a matter of time.
My one question to anyone who understands economics: How will these trillions be paid? How will this debt manifest itself in the future? How soon in the future with the sh#t hit the proverbial fan? Thanks.
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Posted by: Michael_D on Mar 7, 2008 1:36 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Please wake up people! Obama is a cousin of Cheney and is a CFR mouthpiece just like the other and you people want to still deny how these criminals roll? Caught up in the crossfire of power/corruption like so many! He says only "change" allot thus proving his inexperience or will to tackle our REAL problems!!!! He is no different at ALL than the others.
The Clinton's ? watch this and WAKE UP TO THE TRUE POWER OF MEDIA MANIPULATION!
The revolution is on. Wake up to what we all have let the media do to America. They have now consolidated into only 5 corporations for everything on AMERICAN TV!!!! The news commentators on TV are either part of it, or fooled themselves!
oh yea, realize this fact too pretty damn quick people:
Coke Bush
If you want to see some REAL patriots look here
REAL American Hero
REAL American Hero
REAL American Hero
REAL American Hero
REAL American Hero
REAL American Hero
REAL American Hero
REAL American Hero
and watch this TRUTH too
REAL American Hero
They do this by contolling information and by GREATLY influencing our elections with the BUSH-CHENEY connected DIEBOLD MACHINES (now PRIMIER) and all kinds of other strong arm tactics
around the nation whereby they influence or STEAL the elections!.
Wake up if you love American freedom and hate needless war for profit and/or overthrowing of governments and confusion of the masses by corrupt CIA and all the neocons!
This is what the media/government has done to us for too long. The internet and people rising up with the TRUTH after all these years of media lies is the only thin that can help America now. There is no
left or right in America at this moment. Only corruptness and media lies so big that most can't see though it.
McCain is one of the WORST puppets out there!!! His top four contributors, (like most candidates, are... BANKS!
R E S E A R C H
Ron Paul’s military contributions are greater than those of all other current candidates – John McCain, Mike Huckabee, Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama –combined.
The “Top Contributors” figures can be found at www.opensecrets.org.
JOIN the rEVOLution people. IT IS DUTY.
When big media blocks Ron Paul out, it blocks YOU (and all your kids and family) out.
Why do you think they spew so much about "terrorists"?
Starting to get the picture now?
No more lies. They must go. The time is now.
STAND UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Join the revolution. Take back America. Shun the non-believers.
TaxDay08
and sure don't miss the rally on DC on June 21st.
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Posted by: smendler on Mar 10, 2008 7:34 AM
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And addresses.
And assets.
'Nuff said.
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Posted by: premarachel on Mar 11, 2008 2:54 PM
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As the wealthiest nation on earth our problem is not one of there not being enough to provide everyone with good healthcare, good education, good jobs, good homes; of course there is enough. Our problem is that a vast majority of us Americans are greedy, we have a poverty consciousness that tells us we never have enough so we must get as much as we can by whatever means possible. Our politicians and leaders, our corporations that pay vast sums to lobbyists in Washington to set policies that protect and add to their wealth, they are the shadow expression of our collective greed and poverty consciousness; as are we, so are they.
The richest 1 percent of Americans now own 40 percent of US wealth. This is the greatest inequality of any industrial nation and the worst in US history since the Roaring Twenties. In 1945 the wealthiest Americans were paying a 91 percent taxation (as compared to 31 percent today) and it was this that created not only the greatest economic and industrial juggernaut in the history of the world, but also a dynamic middle class that was a golden age in home ownership, education, health, retirement and prosperity. Today the top 1 percent of our richest tax payers pay around 28 percent of our taxes, at the same time garnering 18 percent of our countries total income. Is it a coincidence that a 60 percent drop in taxation over the last fifty years for the wealthiest US citizens has seen an equally huge growth and prosperity decline in the middle class of close to 60 percent? This suggests, and I believe correctly, that in 1945 there was a true sense of need and patriotism amongst our wealthiest, and that higher taxation for the wealthiest benefited all Americans. It needs to be noted that there is a current 15 percent growth per year increase in the number of millionaires, who are able to avoid, through current tax loopholes, paying a proportionate fair share of much needed taxes to support and strengthen our country. It bears great consideration at this time, because the effect of this upon the middle and lower income earners, I suspect to be negative.
Last year over 360,000 of America’s wealthiest citizens moved themselves and their wealth out of the US, choosing to be expatriates. One wonders why? At the rate our wealthiest are leaving, middle and lower income taxes will need to increase considerably just to maintain current status quo, creating both a greater impetus to expatriation and increasing overall poverty in the US.
It seems to me, there is taking place, a very obscene betrayal of the American people, when our president and our government conducts, allows and encourages through flawed taxation, such a vast disparity in wealth that our population bears the negative brunt of such policies, while at the same time our wealthy leaders are talking about patriotism and sacrifice, and shedding the blood of our young men and women in wars of speculation and profit. Over the last fifteen years we have seen the largest transfer of wealth from the middle class to the wealthy in our history. Taxing the poor and middle income earners at such an unequal income to tax ratio, to benefit the rich is unacceptable for a nation such as ours. As the wealthiest and most powerful nation on earth, we can and must improve the financial health and well being of all our people through a fair proportionate tax system, dedicated entirely to the welfare of our nation in it’s entirety. We have vast riches in our country that can empower all of us. We are not defined as a country by our dollars, but by the humanity, education, prosperity and health of ALL our people.
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Posted by: HeKnew on Mar 5, 2008 1:03 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There's no statute of limitations on genocide.
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» What We Are Up Against
Posted by: TarryFaster
» Have I got it? Am I right?
Posted by: nigelbest
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Posted by: vox persona on Mar 5, 2008 1:37 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» And then: The Truth of 9/11.
Posted by: JoAnne
» RE: And then: The Truth of 9/11.
Posted by: Zimbly
» RE: This is what I've been saying
Posted by: master09
» There is an alternative to violent revolution. It doesn't work.
Posted by: opmoc
» RE: This is what I've been saying (Kucinichesque)
Posted by: Ripcord
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Posted by: Mister_PsyOps on Mar 5, 2008 2:51 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Nothing about this global war is remotely sane or justified. Not one thing.
This is about blood money.
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» RE: Costs of False "war on terror" are about Corporate Monopoly Profit
Posted by: Badger1492
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Posted by: talkville on Mar 5, 2008 3:20 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We've already reified "The Economy" into a living breathing throbbing entity that just seems to 'act' in ways independent of us; Corporations are duly sitting in in their "fictitious person-hood", penetrating this and opening that and acting independently of us. Why not Reality?
Could it be "Twilight of the Idols" or "A Rebirth of Tragedy"?
A good Lottery might solve the problem. 1st human to figure out the cost of the Invasion and Occupation of Iraq (affectionately called "The War") wins (put in your favorite award here). One thing's sure: Wall Street and Washington aren't too concerned about it. But if it cost $1, it cost too much for a long time to come. There ARE a few exceptions, of course, and they've taken care and are taking care of their non-participation in payment as we speak.
And the players aren't simply National or Domestic any more: it's a global thing it's a macro-macro-economy for sure. But who will be bearing the costs has been demonstrated time and time again historically; it won't be different this time either. Doing the same thing over and over and over again but bigger and bigger each time -- expecting a different result... I've heard that somewhere in reference to mental states.
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Posted by: manatthewindow on Mar 5, 2008 4:02 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's taken the Banksters the best part of eighty years to siphon off four trillion dollars of the people's wealth into their swag bags.
Now, after two terms of the worst Presidency in history, the Mal-Administration has doubled the American people's debt liability to the Money Masters.
Congress allowed this.
The Senate allowed this.
The Judiciary allowed this.
The People allowed this.
The prospective candidates for the Presidential Office continue to ignore this.
The Bush Administration: TRY 'EM AND FRY 'EM
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» See "The Money Masters":
Posted by: JoAnne
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Posted by: opmoc on Mar 5, 2008 4:02 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The objective was always obvious - to steal / control the richest sources of energy supplies on the planet.
The total financial destruction of Western economies was started even earlier when Reagan and Thatcher adopted Milton Friedman's economics. This resulted in the shutdown of most wealth creating industries in the West - and their transfer to South East Asia.
Having realised that we had already effectively impoverished ourseleves - the only solution seemed to be Smash and Grab.
Western Governments have basically become armed robbers where the death and mutilation of Millions of People is tagged "colateral damage" and public outrage is subdued by psychological control via the media that gives the impression that it is just a computer game.
The only way forward is to bring The War Criminals to Trial - starting with the Politicians. Under interrogation they will almost certainly reveal the source of the real evil.
We then need to start trying to make reperations for the destruction we have caused.
Basically ordinary Americans and British deserve to become the Slaves of the Countries we have destroyed - because we are Guilty too.
We allowed our Governments to do this. Even when it was obvious - we actually voted them back into power to continue it - both Bush and Blair.
We still have time to save ourselves from the hell we have created on Earth. But we've got to start doing the morally correct things. And by morally correct - we need to start respecting that human beings all over the planet are people just the same as your family and friends. They feel pain and they cry just like us. We need to realise that we are committing one of the worst attrocities ever in human history and stop doing it. If we continue the human race will not survive.
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Posted by: PJAW on Mar 5, 2008 5:22 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Oil was $36 a barrel when Bush declared war and Iraq is estimated to have about 115 billion barrels of known reserves. If we had offered them $40 a barrel, we could have bought 50 of those 115 for 2 trillion dollars.
Iraq would be a functioning country today and we would not have turned 4,000 of our soldiers into landfill. There would be other benefits as well, but It think you get the point.
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Posted by: modeler on Mar 5, 2008 5:40 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» "Bush is equal to the worst fascists in history if not worse."????
Posted by: harryf200
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Posted by: TarryFaster on Mar 5, 2008 6:56 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: heriza on Mar 5, 2008 7:03 AM
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http://youtube.com/watch?v=Wnq6cD5jk1Q
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Posted by: Doggycuny on Mar 5, 2008 9:06 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Now they are angry little children, cause they got out-smarted by their retard! And the retard has ruined their country. DOH! I guess nobody in the world told them about politicians lying! Learnt any lessons America? Learn anything from Vietnam? Yeh? No? Maybe? Have you heard of Vietnam? You should have read about it in your coloring books at school!
It's okay America. Don't feel bad. That's just the way it is. You vote for your retard. Your retard becomes president (funny how a Head of State epitomizes the 'spirit of the nation'.) You believe everything that dribbles from the retards mouth. The retard scares you with talk about the boogeyman and monsters. You give up your liberties to the retard. You send your sons and daughters to die for your retard in a country you know nothing about. Then you get angry with the retard for lying and being a retard. Then when you're Fox News comes on you'll forget you were ever angry and put your baby pacifier back in your mouth. Good baby!
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» "Some" people doesn't mean everyone
Posted by: LeeAnnG
» RE: "Some" people doesn't mean everyone
Posted by: Doggycuny
» RE: "Some" people doesn't mean everyone
Posted by: Cybershaman
» which is why I still support Kucinich
Posted by: Ripcord
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Posted by: Thebigkate on Mar 5, 2008 9:51 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/04/opinion/04herbert.html
This is what Obama needs to be focusing on and getting out to the voters!!!!! Hillary Clinton is not interested, because she wants to keep big military spending. But, please, this is tragic!!!!!!
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Posted by: LeeAnnG on Mar 5, 2008 10:58 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So when Americans hear that the war costs $1 trillion or $2 trillion, it probably doesn't register. One way to break through is to reduce the numbers down to the smallest possible increment. The following estimate is based on $3.5 billion per week.
In order to earn $1 billion at one dollar per second, it would take around 33 years. So let's assume exactly 33 years. OK - that's $1/second
But we are talking about $3.5 billion, so we have to pump it up to $3.5/second.
However, that would take 33 years. What if it took only 1 year? We have to multiply our result by 33, bringing the cost to $115.5/second.
And, finally, since it's not one year, but one week, we have to multiply the result one more time by 52. The final cost per second - if indeed the estimate of $3.5 billion per week is correct - is a grand total of $6006 every second of every day.
That's $360,360 every minute. So every minute of every day, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, we could pay three teachers a salary of over $100,000 for the year.
That's just for starters. Our roads, bridges, libraries, schools, health care needs, and many other necessities are being neglected while the Bush Administration squanders our tax dollars on an unprecedented scale. But the vastness of the amount is so unimaginable that it's hard to grasp.
I've done the math several times, but I'm not a mathematician. I just did a little multiplication and came up with those results. If anyone has different conclusions, I'd be glad to adjust. But in any case, this is an outrage.
If any courageous soul in the media were to start examining these figures, presenting them to the public, and then comparing the cost of the invasion and occupation to what the money could be used for, it might actually have an impact.
Hey, Obama! If you really want to talk about the war and get people's attention, here's a very good place to start. If the war is not on people's minds, but the economy is, why not equate the two as they should be and wake people up a little?
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» no war + decent health care = better economy
Posted by: garciamukamuka
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Posted by: JayHaden on Mar 5, 2008 11:35 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: stellabloo on Mar 5, 2008 2:18 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I know you alternet readers vote but For The Love of God - in the next election, please not only vote yourselves but if necessary, DRAG some disaffected emo punk or such along with you and make a difference this time - please (seeing as us canadians are supposed to be polite) ;)
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Posted by: sofla100 on Mar 5, 2008 2:24 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Good Jub Bush: The Iraq War Made America China's Bitch
Posted by: richholland
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Posted by: HeKnew on Mar 5, 2008 4:39 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
http://www.warresisters.org
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Posted by: peridot on Mar 5, 2008 9:41 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: bobtr900 on Mar 6, 2008 1:29 PM
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Are Hag-ee, Dobson, Reed, Norquist, daddy Booosh and Jeb Booosh and their friend David Duke and the pro-life and family values set going to pay for this war, their war. Is any one on the religious/ racist right going to pay for this war?
Are the oil companies going to pay for this war out their profits and the profits of their shareholders? Are any of the no-taxers going to pay for this war? Limbaugh you big fat ass this means you and your no tax friends.
NOT one damn friggin penny are the aforementioned going to pay for this war. We the taxpayers, we the people, are going to pay for this war. It has been shoved down our throats and yet we must pay for it.
I will never for as long as I live let another no-taxer ever get away with saying no taxes in my presence. And that includes those who are in my own family.
I think I'll send a bill for this war to my local Bishop Lennon, of the Clevelnad Catholic Diocese. Hellloooo Bishop Lennon here comes another email that you are not going to like, but the Iraqi and our troops families like it far less so I don't care that you don't like it because I hate what you have chosen to he a party to. And don't you dare tell me that the Pope spoke against this war because you and he did exactly nothing to stop it. And your actions say everything, while your phony words mean nothing. Same as your fiscal conservative pro-life and family values friends.
I sure as hell am not going to pay for their war. They wanted it so they must pay for their killing spree. They dance with Satan and now they must pay for their evil.
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» And don't forget the "good" Pope Pius XII...
Posted by: ShrubtheWarcriminal
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Posted by: wonderpulp on Mar 6, 2008 5:31 PM
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Posted by: ShrubtheWarcriminal on Mar 6, 2008 6:01 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The only other answer is that they are complicit in destroying the once proud Amerikkka. In other words we have somehow been infiltrated by people destined to destroy this country and it's only a matter of time.
My one question to anyone who understands economics: How will these trillions be paid? How will this debt manifest itself in the future? How soon in the future with the sh#t hit the proverbial fan? Thanks.
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Posted by: Michael_D on Mar 7, 2008 1:36 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Please wake up people! Obama is a cousin of Cheney and is a CFR mouthpiece just like the other and you people want to still deny how these criminals roll? Caught up in the crossfire of power/corruption like so many! He says only "change" allot thus proving his inexperience or will to tackle our REAL problems!!!! He is no different at ALL than the others.
The Clinton's ? watch this and WAKE UP TO THE TRUE POWER OF MEDIA MANIPULATION!
The revolution is on. Wake up to what we all have let the media do to America. They have now consolidated into only 5 corporations for everything on AMERICAN TV!!!! The news commentators on TV are either part of it, or fooled themselves!
oh yea, realize this fact too pretty damn quick people:
Coke Bush
If you want to see some REAL patriots look here
REAL American Hero
REAL American Hero
REAL American Hero
REAL American Hero
REAL American Hero
REAL American Hero
REAL American Hero
REAL American Hero
and watch this TRUTH too
REAL American Hero
They do this by contolling information and by GREATLY influencing our elections with the BUSH-CHENEY connected DIEBOLD MACHINES (now PRIMIER) and all kinds of other strong arm tactics
around the nation whereby they influence or STEAL the elections!.
Wake up if you love American freedom and hate needless war for profit and/or overthrowing of governments and confusion of the masses by corrupt CIA and all the neocons!
This is what the media/government has done to us for too long. The internet and people rising up with the TRUTH after all these years of media lies is the only thin that can help America now. There is no
left or right in America at this moment. Only corruptness and media lies so big that most can't see though it.
McCain is one of the WORST puppets out there!!! His top four contributors, (like most candidates, are... BANKS!
R E S E A R C H
Ron Paul’s military contributions are greater than those of all other current candidates – John McCain, Mike Huckabee, Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama –combined.
The “Top Contributors” figures can be found at www.opensecrets.org.
JOIN the rEVOLution people. IT IS DUTY.
When big media blocks Ron Paul out, it blocks YOU (and all your kids and family) out.
Why do you think they spew so much about "terrorists"?
Starting to get the picture now?
No more lies. They must go. The time is now.
STAND UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Join the revolution. Take back America. Shun the non-believers.
TaxDay08
and sure don't miss the rally on DC on June 21st.
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Posted by: smendler on Mar 10, 2008 7:34 AM
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And addresses.
And assets.
'Nuff said.
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Posted by: premarachel on Mar 11, 2008 2:54 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As the wealthiest nation on earth our problem is not one of there not being enough to provide everyone with good healthcare, good education, good jobs, good homes; of course there is enough. Our problem is that a vast majority of us Americans are greedy, we have a poverty consciousness that tells us we never have enough so we must get as much as we can by whatever means possible. Our politicians and leaders, our corporations that pay vast sums to lobbyists in Washington to set policies that protect and add to their wealth, they are the shadow expression of our collective greed and poverty consciousness; as are we, so are they.
The richest 1 percent of Americans now own 40 percent of US wealth. This is the greatest inequality of any industrial nation and the worst in US history since the Roaring Twenties. In 1945 the wealthiest Americans were paying a 91 percent taxation (as compared to 31 percent today) and it was this that created not only the greatest economic and industrial juggernaut in the history of the world, but also a dynamic middle class that was a golden age in home ownership, education, health, retirement and prosperity. Today the top 1 percent of our richest tax payers pay around 28 percent of our taxes, at the same time garnering 18 percent of our countries total income. Is it a coincidence that a 60 percent drop in taxation over the last fifty years for the wealthiest US citizens has seen an equally huge growth and prosperity decline in the middle class of close to 60 percent? This suggests, and I believe correctly, that in 1945 there was a true sense of need and patriotism amongst our wealthiest, and that higher taxation for the wealthiest benefited all Americans. It needs to be noted that there is a current 15 percent growth per year increase in the number of millionaires, who are able to avoid, through current tax loopholes, paying a proportionate fair share of much needed taxes to support and strengthen our country. It bears great consideration at this time, because the effect of this upon the middle and lower income earners, I suspect to be negative.
Last year over 360,000 of America’s wealthiest citizens moved themselves and their wealth out of the US, choosing to be expatriates. One wonders why? At the rate our wealthiest are leaving, middle and lower income taxes will need to increase considerably just to maintain current status quo, creating both a greater impetus to expatriation and increasing overall poverty in the US.
It seems to me, there is taking place, a very obscene betrayal of the American people, when our president and our government conducts, allows and encourages through flawed taxation, such a vast disparity in wealth that our population bears the negative brunt of such policies, while at the same time our wealthy leaders are talking about patriotism and sacrifice, and shedding the blood of our young men and women in wars of speculation and profit. Over the last fifteen years we have seen the largest transfer of wealth from the middle class to the wealthy in our history. Taxing the poor and middle income earners at such an unequal income to tax ratio, to benefit the rich is unacceptable for a nation such as ours. As the wealthiest and most powerful nation on earth, we can and must improve the financial health and well being of all our people through a fair proportionate tax system, dedicated entirely to the welfare of our nation in it’s entirety. We have vast riches in our country that can empower all of us. We are not defined as a country by our dollars, but by the humanity, education, prosperity and health of ALL our people.
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