COMMENTS: 56
Making Sense of Murder: AlterNet Readers Discuss the NIU Shooting
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In "Northern Ill. University: Was the Killer Crazy, or the Campus Hopeless?" Mark Ames proposes an alternative way to make sense of the tragedy. Ames argues that school and workplace violence is rooted in the economic and social problems faced by most Americans. Seemingly senseless rampages like Kazmierczak's are symptomatic of the hopelessness and dissatisfaction pervading small towns like DeKalb and schools like Northern Illinois University.
Ames' article has sparked a vigorous debate among AlterNet commenters. Many readers accuse Ames of making unfair assumptions about "second-tier" universities and glibly knocking life in "middle America." Other readers point to a culture of entitlement that sets up most Americans for disappointment. Still others bring up issues that Ames fails to address, such as a lack of adequate care for the mentally ill.
Not surprisingly, some of the most vehement objections to Ames' article come from students, staff, and alumni of Northern Illinois University.
Reader commonsense1 defends NIU as " ... a proud place with faculty that comes from many of the best businesses in the Chicago area ... " and points out that "A perusal of an NIU alumni magazine [shows] the many great things NIU graduates have done and are doing."
Timemachinist, an alumni of the graduate program in history at NIU, describes the faculty as "accomplished, stimulating, challenging, inspiring and available for one-on-one discussions. Timemachinist continues his critique of Ames by arguing that the article "mocks the satisfying and beautiful lives of [NIU] students and graduates, and apparently measures us by the same exact elitist standard it seems to blame for the deeply evil action of an individual."
Reader leebee also critisizes Ames for placing the blame on NIU. "It is with great sadness and anger that I read the scathing comments about a university I love and have wonderful memories of ... I never had an allergic reaction to the lovely cornfields, and I never smelled anything offensive." The problem, argues leebee, is a sense of student entitlement. "In too many students, there is a sense of unhealthy entitlement, a lack of commitment to learning, a disrespect for faculty, a willingness to project blame onto other people and other circumstances. Don't blame NIU. Look at who and what you are."
NIU alumnus Aquafunkapus, a "proud graduate of NIU," criticizes Ames for implying that " ... this crime was committed due to the fact that these people went to a 'crappy' college in a 'dirty' town."
Many readers not personally connected to the university also echo the sentiment that Ames is unfairly critical of so-called "second-rate" colleges. Reader Lonl states, "Everybody doesn't get to go to Harvard and Yale, yet any number of people who have not still make immense contributions." Lonl goes on to make the undeniably valid point that " ... one need only to witness our current POTUS to see how awful some grads from top-tier institutions can be."
Rwday argues that second-tier universities serve a valuable function, since "not every student has the ability or interest in attending the top colleges. Lots of students derive great satisfaction from their attendance at these schools, far more than the number who find them hopeless and wastes of money and time, and infinitely more than take a gun and start shooting."
Reader upperaccess finds that "the author has some genuine insights but loses credibility with his elitism. So the college is in a rural area where job opportunities are limited? And, horrors, there's a nearby pig farm? What, not many grads become CEOs of Fortune 500 companies? Ooh, no wonder it spawns mass murderers!"
An interesting counterpoint is provided by Heid, who argues that Ames is bringing needed attention to the unfair advantages enjoyed by elites. "Those at the top of the social hierarchy do not suffer from the same stresses. They know that they're going to have interesting work. They know that they're going to have work, in fact -- assuming they want it. They know that they have access to the best of everything, whether its jobs, clothes, food, travel, whatever. In other words, their advantages result in a lack of stress that everyone else must live with."
Other readers expand on Ames' contention that these shootings are rooted in wider social and ideological forces. Barnettb points to a culture of entitlement among many middle-class white men. "These people are the ones who have been promised their whole lives that they have a place to belong and that they'll mean something someday. To awake to a reality where you are just another meaningless number (consumer/student/drone), when you have been promised (by implication) entitlement, your whole life has got to suck. And if you feel powerless -- when you think you have been born with the right to power (i.e., white/male privilege), that can really piss you off."
Others point to the economic, political and social realities that foster a sense of hopelessness in many Americans. According to Marid:
The elevator that may have existed to give a lucky few a ride to the top if they played by the rules and worked hard doesn't come to the ground anymore. Poverty has increased under compassionate conservatism, more people struggle with no health insurance, college tuition has tripled in static dollars, an energy crisis looms on the horizon, we have lost face nearly everywhere on the planet, real wages continue to stagnate or decline, debt is rocketing upward, we base our worth as a nation on our military might, and we still defend and side with the predators who control our country ...Many readers lay the blame in more specific factors, such as America's lax gun laws. Sofla100 claims that the shootings occurred "because America does not restrict gun ownership ... and, it will keep happening, over and over again. Guns are simply too available in America." Reader Ruby agrees, bluntly stating that the tragedy occurred "because he had guns. It's not possible to have done this without them. The question should be: Why did he have guns? Maybe the NRA could explain that to the families of the victims, including the shooter's."
Several readers trace the shooting to the sorry state of American healthcare. Tomkara writes:
The real issue here is the lack of an integrated healthcare system in the United States ... [our system] treats mentally ill people as though they are patients on an assembly line, using drugs without combining adequate social support. ... The murderer was clearly disturbed, and the fact that he was on medications and stopped taking them cannot be trivialized. The broad social context in which this happens is obviously even more important, but I don't think this incident happened because Northern Illinois University isn't an Ivy League. Let's focus instead on a society that doesn't value universal healthcare and integrated medicine involving not only drugs but social support ...Cozyrose also points to the lack of adequate support for the mentally ill. "As a therapist in a mental health 'company,' I see people heroically struggling with ... many human dilemmas. The mental health 'clinics' of the past, which provided low-cost care to anyone needing it, are gone."
In the place of adequate healthcare, the mentally ill are given dangerous medications. Reader Gravitas writes, "As it turns out, the Virginia Tech shooter, the Amish shooter, Andrea Yates, Phil Hartman's wife, and one of the Columbine shooters were all on some type of these drugs ... and there are so many more stories that never make the headlines of passive people becoming violent only after a few days on these drugs; as well as the covering up by Pharma of negative side effects. (Normal mode of business for that evil industry.) We all say we would do anything to prevent another tragedy like this one. Well, start by plugging the dangers of Paxil or any of the other SSRI antidepressants in a search engine. You will be shocked and horrified at what you find out."
There are many ways to try to understand how someone could turn to extreme violence in response to the countless economic and social stresses buffeting almost all Americans. But, as reader BST points out, "I hope that any young people out there who are carrying around grief or anger or fear will, somehow, turn not to mayhem but to a parent or trusted adult, valued friend, teacher, doctor."
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Comments are closed-
Posted by: ibolyap on Feb 20, 2008 5:16 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Getting Treatment
Posted by: Ian MacLeod
» RE: Getting Treatment
Posted by: Freethemind
» RE: Getting Treatment
Posted by: Turiye
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Posted by: kegbot1 on Feb 20, 2008 5:18 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When you think about it, the only reliable causal factor are the drugs, in this case, the Prozac he stopped taking. These drugs permanently alter your brain chemistry and we need to start understanding that we are messing around with the one human organ we understand least - the human brain.
my blog post
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» RE: Drugs
Posted by: brunowe
» RE: Drugs
Posted by: brunowe
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Posted by: freedomlover on Feb 20, 2008 7:16 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The real mentally-ill people are the ones who continue to tout "gun-free zones", which obviously are not and never can be totally gun-free. The delusion is that you have the right to force innocent people to abdicate their own responsibility and right of self-defense. The so-called "progressive" movement has first disarmed people intellectually by training them to believe that responsibility for their very lives is rightly in the hands of the government, not their own. Then the movement has physically disarmed them through various gun-control laws.
Of course, once a person has accepted that government has a right to dispose of his life in any way that government sees fit, then it is no surprise that same person stops valuing his own life to the point that he accepts such restrictions meekly, which is really what "progressives" are after--power.
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» RE: With Extreme Prejudice!
Posted by: tfinn
» Practicality
Posted by: suprmark
» RE: Practicality
Posted by: tfinn
» RE: Practicality
Posted by: Crazy H
» RE: Practicality
Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: The right of Self-defense
Posted by: Crazy H
» Perhaps that's YOUR sick fantasy, but hardly reality
Posted by: freedomlover
» RE: Perhaps that's YOUR sick fantasy, but hardly reality
Posted by: Crazy H
» Then you're only making fun of YOURSELF
Posted by: freedomlover
» Attention progressives: Be charitable to this argument.
Posted by: Coleman
» RE: Attention progressives: Be charitable to this argument.
Posted by: Crazy H
» Ironic
Posted by: freedomlover
» RE: Ironic
Posted by: Crazy H
» I agree
Posted by: freedomlover
» RE: I agree
Posted by: Crazy H
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Posted by: rminor on Feb 20, 2008 7:34 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Twenty-seven year-old Steven Kazmierczak, who grew up in middle-class middle-America, had been an honored sociology graduate student at Northern Illinois University. After his classroom attack killing five and wounding sixteen, he completed the attack as these men often do – kill themselves or see to it that they are killed.
The mainstream media searched for numerous acceptable explanations and settled on the fact that he had stopped taking his medication with the expectation that he had just broken up with a girlfriend. Both explanations won’t threaten our underlying culture by calling for changes in what we and our institutions value.
Our culture finds actual relief in these answers. The standard responses then enforce the need for more consumption and profits – more medication, more security equipment, more prisons, and more armament purchases – without examining root causes in the system itself.
Oh, don’t forget, there usually follow proposals for stricter punishment of someone or everyone. Punishments, after all, enforce our sense that the current way of seeing things has overwhelming power behind it.
We don’t know what personal circumstances, ranging from his family upbringing to his experiences growing up male in a masculine beat-or-be-beaten culture, brought him to the conclusion that this would settle something in his life. But we can make sure that we don’t under-emphasize the part that American masculine conditioning plays in such large, and numberless smaller, tragedies.
It turns little boys into depressed, seething young men who are supposed to idolize and embody warrior-type responses. Then it turns their depression into outward attacks on others, and, at times, gun-wielding massacres.
There’s anger and rage beneath all depression, therapists tell us. But different sets of conditioning turn that inward in most women so that they beat themselves up, and outward toward others in men.
The training to be a man and to keep quiet only enforces the seething emotions. And talking about it to other men to learn that the feelings are common, is forbidden. It’s put down as girly or gay....
[For the remainder of this comment based on my book Scared Straight: The Fairness Project Blog]
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» RE: Why Would a Nice Boy Shoot Up His School?
Posted by: LeftCoastProgressive
» RE: Why Would a Nice Boy Shoot Up His School?
Posted by: rminor
» eyebrows
Posted by: o
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Posted by: VZEQICVA on Feb 20, 2008 7:57 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: GOOD IDEA BRINGING ALL THE COMMENTS TOGETHER
Posted by: Romantic Violence
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Posted by: Gravitas on Feb 20, 2008 8:04 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
http://tinyurl.com/38tbdr
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Posted by: Beepath on Feb 20, 2008 11:12 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Much ado about nothing more than......
Posted by: g50
» RE: Much ado about nothing more than......
Posted by: Turiye
» How utterly sexist. nm
Posted by: JoshuaLudd
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Posted by: Iconoclast421 on Feb 20, 2008 11:33 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Of course not.
The facts are as clear as day, yet you still have all these morons screaming for a nazi state of disarmament. Why? How can a country function when its people have such a gaping disconnect between what they personally believe, and what the facts show? It really cant, not for very long at any rate. If people cant understand something as simple as the 2nd amendment, how in hell can they understand any of the thousand more complex issues? They cant. So they continually get raped by the elite and forced to live as peasants. We're all fighting over resources, and there is not enough to go around. So it is a case of "may the best man win." So watch your american idol and be a slave, but leave my damn constitution alone. You are free to be dumb and uninformed, and the top 1% are free to take advantage of your stupidity. THAT is and has always been what has made this country the greatest on earth.
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» RE: Sofla100 and Ruby
Posted by: Crazy H
» RE: Sofla100 and Ruby
Posted by: Romantic Violence
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Posted by: Rixblix on Feb 20, 2008 12:45 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Bad things happen to good people. There is no 'sense' to make of this. I AM very angered at the opportunistic legislative candidates in Illinois who are using this tragedy to forward their hopes of passing conceal and carry laws.
Northern is a good school in a small town. That this tragedy happened here means that it could happen anywhere; it doesn't mean NIU is a bad school or that it's students are less than capable.
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Posted by: penobscotdziekuje@yahoo.com on Feb 20, 2008 1:00 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But it's ironic that most school shootings have occured in smaller cities suck as DeKalb, Littleton, CO, Nickel Mines, PA, Oxnard, CA, Jonesboro, AR, Blacksburg, VA; and Holland, MI.
Yes, although DeKalb doesn't have the ambience as Chicago or Milwaukee, DeKalb is a place for those who may like the small town atmosphere. Illinois is full of small towns.
Lastly, some writers rush to get the story out without addressing the location. I'm not taking a shot at Ames. I am a writer, too. I've made lots of mistakes.
So the city and NIU will have to work hard to erase the negative image bestowed upon it by one incident.
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Posted by: TerryS on Feb 20, 2008 10:46 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Ames argues that school and workplace violence
is rooted in the economic and social problems faced
by most Americans."
If indeed Mr. Ames' article had been about workplace/
school violence being rooted "in the economic and social
problems faced by most Americans." there would be no
controversy. The idea that these school shooting are a
symptom of much deeper problems is not particularly
controversial (or new).
What was so incredibly offensive about Mr. Ames'
article was the contempt and vitriol Mr. Ames heaped
upon the victims and bystanders of the shooting, the
students & faculty of NIU and even the citizens of DeKalb.
Plus to add salt to the wound, Mr. Ames argued that
"Columbine killers Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold set
out on a suicide mission to "kickstart a revolution."
And like many successful terrorist or insurgency
movements, they succeeded by spawning an ever-growing
supply of schoolyard killers." Ah, so now Steven Kazmierczak
is a revolutionary? His victim collateral damage in
the "struggle" to get the word out that America has
some serious social problems?
Can you imagine if Mr. Ames had been writing about
a school shooting in a minority high school with such
contempt? There is no way Alternet would print such an
article. Yet somehow it's open season on mid-westerners?
Except those mid-westerners of course, who went to
top-tier schools.
I am happy to live in the San Francisco bay area,
plus I am such a fan of Alternet that make a monthly
donation (Alternet dings my credit card), but this article
was truly disgusting and offensive. I think Alternet owes
it's readers (and supporters) a sincere apology for
publishing such trash.
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Posted by: Beastly on Feb 21, 2008 12:43 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: JesseBC on Feb 21, 2008 5:49 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Granted the search for a new explanation that no one's yet come up with is getting a little tiresome, but, if that's all Ames had said, I could have abided it.
But, no, his point was that the NIU shooting happened because DeKalb, specifically, is a small-town shithole, which he backed up with a few anonymous students griping about their school on the internet.
This wasn't just poor journalism -- his whole premise was despicable and compounded by his failure to countenance his own role in the media dance that school shooters are counting upon.
The "Ennui in the Exurbs" angle may be a little ridiculous, but it could at least arguably be a valid point.
But the shooters have clearly caught on to the ensuing Angle-Hunt that journalists will pursue after the shooters have pulled off their bloody little stunts and they're one step ahead of the media. Seung-Hui Cho sent his manifesto straight to networks before he even finished; Kazmierczak, by contrast, left everyone guessing -- compensation perhaps for a lower body count when he was through. He even went so far as to scour his hard drive to make sure he couldn't be used as an object lesson against guns or violent video games.
Lacking any other angle, Ames latched onto, not despair among Gen Y as suggested here, but blaming the town of DeKalb itself for being (supposedly) small, dirty, and located in a corn field.
It's one thing for journalists to take up their role as the shooters' puppets (which they've leapt to do after each incident, ensuring a certain path to the headlines for any ambitious teenager with a death wish).
But Ames went one step further -- blaming the victimized town ITSELF.
Like I said before: bottom-feeding and despicable.
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Posted by: bessie on Feb 21, 2008 10:43 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: ah2323 on Feb 22, 2008 8:32 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Really, anyone with a degree from NIU or its sibling institutions is only slightly better off than a HS graduate, and people with credentials from *real* universities do not consider them (or should I say us) equals in any sense. Nor should they, really. Places like NIU are completely devoid of intellectuality or even the most rudimentary sense of intellectual adventure or curiosity. That's not why they're there. They're there to provide the next generation of sheeple and cubicle fodder to Moloch (I hear the big M's a Bonesman, BTW).
The comment by one person that NIU draws its faculty from the "best businesses in Chicago" is revealing. NIU is a vocational school, and not a very good one, largely due to the fact that it insists on posing as a university. That is all.
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Posted by: Northern Illinois grad. on Feb 22, 2008 6:17 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is astonishing that AlterNet went forward with such an abrasive, insulting tirade lacking in the basics taught in Journalism 101. Mr. Ames, writing from Moscow, Russia, never set foot on NIU soil, did not interview a single soul involved in the tragedy, appears to be lacking in any knowledge of the Midwest, or even of Chicago (DeKalb, Illinois is a far western suburb). Yet, all of this did not stop Mr. Ames from writing a seething indictment of an entire region of the US or AlterNet for running with it less than 48 hours after the murders.
Moreover, Mr. Ames used unsubstantiated quotes full of slander/libel against NIU and DeKalb and then proceeded to add his own arrogant misinformation and plug his book. Since the quotes were all anonymous, Mr. Ames has no idea who he is quoting.
As a practicing journalist, I cannot help but wonder how AlterNet and Mr. Ames can stand behind this article. The day it appeared I wrote to AlterNet and requested that they run an apology/correction and I see that none is forthcoming in spite of mine and many other complaints. Instead, they ignored the complaints and negative comments about the piece and congratulated themselves for provoking so much controversy and wrote a second article of very cherry-picked reader comments!
I'm calling on AlterNet to respond to these points immediately. Or perhaps they are waiting to hear from the staff attorneys from NIU and the City of DeKalb.
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» RE: AlterNet needs to reread Mission Statement and apologize to Readers
Posted by: JesseBC
» RE: reply to JesseBC: please reread the original story; it is rife with negative intent.
Posted by: Northern Illinois grad.
» RE: reply to JesseBC: please reread the original story; it is rife with negative intent.
Posted by: JesseBC
» RE: reply to JesseBC: please reread the original story; it is rife with negative intent.
Posted by: Northern Illinois grad.
Comments are closed-
Posted by: bessie on Feb 22, 2008 11:25 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have looked at your comments and don’t like to make knee jerk reactions. I could be offended since I hold two degrees from NIU. I have been a teacher, social worker, truck driver, laborer, bartender, and I am a lawyer. I am sure you could find fault in all of those professions, but you have not dared to tell us where you went to school and what your profession (?) might be. But of course, since you went to a school like (?) NIU,then you argue that you cannot possibly be happy. Many graduates of NIU, have found various types of success, unless they are snobs like Mark Ames or folks like you who apparently are unhappy with their career. We can't all be CEOs. We can live with neighbors who all work for a living.
I think you should reexamine your views and respect the folks at NIU. Remember this is not about NIU, but about a mentally ill former student, medicated with a cocktail of drugs.
This article by Mark Ames promotes his theory that this is an insurgency, that started at Columbine. Do you think that Steve K followed in their footsteps with this insurgency?
You haven't addressed this issue, which is the point of his article.
Your comment blames the victims for attending NIU. A school that graduates lawyers, accountants, teachers, engineers, and successful business grads. Are the lives of those who attend the upper echelon schools so much better?
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Posted by: Desertnomad1 on Feb 23, 2008 10:35 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Moving there in the early 80's from the Chicago 'burbs was like entering a time warp - stunted attitudes, pervasive sexual harassment in the workplace, isolated, insulated, and all the natives seemed to be related to each other. Perhaps part of the problem is that they are stuck in the middle of endless cornfields, and it's at least 20 miles in any direction to reach civilization. There's a railroad track that cuts directly through the heart of the downtown(using the term quite loosely)area, and it's rather infamous for the suicides it enables. It is unquestionably ugly, I found it quite depressing, and I did run into some of the nastiest people ever. Don't honk at anyone ever while driving, not for any reason; I was followed, harassed and threatened and these were all separate incidents! Look, I'm a mother and a grandmother; my youngest child is 23 - he was born and raised in that hell hole of a town and so many of his classmates are dead or in prison that I feel like he might have been raised in the inner city. Mostly drug overdoses, but also a shooting, a homicide; we have acquaintances whose 27 year old son disappeared from one of the many bars a year ago, rumor has it that he's buried in one of the local's yards. It's just incredible to me that this small Midwestern town seethes beneath the surface with this violence and despair. All of the "town founders", the former movers and shakers in industry that used to exist there, the social hierarchy, all have 2nd homes elsewhere and exit the area upon retirement, as we were fortunate enough to do. My husband thinks I'm nuts, that "bad stuff happens everywhere", but I think, we shouldn't know so many dead kids, so many kids in and out of jail, in and out of rehab, so much apparent despair. I couldn't wait to escape the soulsickness I felt so strongly there.
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» RE: The Dark side of DeKalb
Posted by: JesseBC
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Posted by: YogiBear on Feb 24, 2008 12:56 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Some of us believe that the reason campus shootings are increasing is because people who go pyscho see the campus classroom as a "safe" place, safe for them to enact their rampage without challenge. Our society is full of psychos who act out and who kill, but we don't need to bring that up in out blame the gun industry game.
Guns make it easier to kill, that's a fact. But criminals -- including some a few cylinders short -- tend to avoid confrontations with people they suspect might be armed. This is also a fact. So, as we create more "safe" places for people to be, we're also creating more killboxes for the unhinged to take advantage of.
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Posted by: JesseBC on Feb 25, 2008 3:41 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Taken to its logical conclusion, the next time one of these shootings occurs, perhaps we should look at whether it was the fault of the kids who got shot.
The "outcast theory" hasn't been wrung completely dry yet. Maybe it's not the shooters who are outcasts, but the victims themselves. Their own fault for not being popular enough.
Or maybe we should examine whether it's their own fault for not being quick enough to get out of the way of a bullet.
(You're horrified, I can tell, but it's what plenty of people said about the victims of Hurricane Katrina.)
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» RE: Ames' modest proposal?
Posted by: JesseBC
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