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FBI Deputizes Private Contractors With Extraordinary Powers, Including 'Shoot to Kill'

By Matthew Rothschild, The Progressive. Posted February 8, 2008.


The FBI has a new set of eyes and ears, and they're being told to protect their infrastructure at any cost. They can even kill without repercussion.

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Today, more than 23,000 representatives of private industry are working quietly with the FBI and the Department of Homeland Security. The members of this rapidly growing group, called InfraGard, receive secret warnings of terrorist threats before the public does -- and, at least on one occasion, before elected officials. In return, they provide information to the government, which alarms the ACLU. But there may be more to it than that. One business executive, who showed me his InfraGard card, told me they have permission to "shoot to kill" in the event of martial law. InfraGard is "a child of the FBI," says Michael Hershman, the chairman of the advisory board of the InfraGard National Members Alliance and CEO of the Fairfax Group, an international consulting firm.

InfraGard started in Cleveland back in 1996, when the private sector there cooperated with the FBI to investigate cyber threats.

"Then the FBI cloned it," says Phyllis Schneck, chairman of the board of directors of the InfraGard National Members Alliance, and the prime mover behind the growth of InfraGard over the last several years.

InfraGard itself is still an FBI operation, with FBI agents in each state overseeing the local InfraGard chapters. (There are now eighty-six of them.) The alliance is a nonprofit organization of private sector InfraGard members.

"We are the owners, operators, and experts of our critical infrastructure, from the CEO of a large company in agriculture or high finance to the guy who turns the valve at the water utility," says Schneck, who by day is the vice president of research integration at Secure Computing.

"At its most basic level, InfraGard is a partnership between the Federal Bureau of Investigation and the private sector," the InfraGard website states. "InfraGard chapters are geographically linked with FBI Field Office territories."

In November 2001, InfraGard had around 1,700 members. As of late January, InfraGard had 23,682 members, according to its website, www.infragard.net, which adds that "350 of our nation's Fortune 500 have a representative in InfraGard."

To join, each person must be sponsored by "an existing InfraGard member, chapter, or partner organization." The FBI then vets the applicant. On the application form, prospective members are asked which aspect of the critical infrastructure their organization deals with. These include: agriculture, banking and finance, the chemical industry, defense, energy, food, information and telecommunications, law enforcement, public health, and transportation.

FBI Director Robert Mueller addressed an InfraGard convention on August 9, 2005. At that time, the group had less than half as many members as it does today. "To date, there are more than 11,000 members of InfraGard," he said. "From our perspective that amounts to 11,000 contacts . . . and 11,000 partners in our mission to protect America." He added a little later, "Those of you in the private sector are the first line of defense."

He urged InfraGard members to contact the FBI if they "note suspicious activity or an unusual event." And he said they could sic the FBI on "disgruntled employees who will use knowledge gained on the job against their employers."

In an interview with InfraGard after the conference, which is featured prominently on the InfraGard members' website, Mueller says: "It's a great program."

The ACLU is not so sanguine.

"There is evidence that InfraGard may be closer to a corporate TIPS program, turning private-sector corporations -- some of which may be in a position to observe the activities of millions of individual customers -- into surrogate eyes and ears for the FBI," the ACLU warned in its August 2004 report The Surveillance-Industrial Complex: How the American Government Is Conscripting Businesses and Individuals in the Construction of a Surveillance Society.

InfraGard is not readily accessible to the general public. Its communications with the FBI and Homeland Security are beyond the reach of the Freedom of Information Act under the "trade secrets" exemption, its website says. And any conversation with the public or the media is supposed to be carefully rehearsed.

"The interests of InfraGard must be protected whenever presented to non-InfraGard members," the website states. "During interviews with members of the press, controlling the image of InfraGard being presented can be difficult. Proper preparation for the interview will minimize the risk of embarrassment. . . . The InfraGard leadership and the local FBI representative should review the submitted questions, agree on the predilection of the answers, and identify the appropriate interviewee. . . . Tailor answers to the expected audience. . . . Questions concerning sensitive information should be avoided."

One of the advantages of InfraGard, according to its leading members, is that the FBI gives them a heads-up on a secure portal about any threatening information related to infrastructure disruption or terrorism.

The InfraGard website advertises this. In its list of benefits of joining InfraGard, it states: "Gain access to an FBI secure communication network complete with VPN encrypted website, webmail, listservs, message boards, and much more."

InfraGard members receive "almost daily updates" on threats "emanating from both domestic sources and overseas," Hershman says.

"We get very easy access to secure information that only goes to InfraGard members," Schneck says. "People are happy to be in the know."

On November 1, 2001, the FBI had information about a potential threat to the bridges of California. The alert went out to the InfraGard membership. Enron was notified, and so, too, was Barry Davis, who worked for Morgan Stanley. He notified his brother Gray, the governor of California.

"He said his brother talked to him before the FBI," recalls Steve Maviglio, who was Davis's press secretary at the time. "And the governor got a lot of grief for releasing the information. In his defense, he said, 'I was on the phone with my brother, who is an investment banker. And if he knows, why shouldn't the public know?' "

Maviglio still sounds perturbed about this: "You'd think an elected official would be the first to know, not the last."

In return for being in the know, InfraGard members cooperate with the FBI and Homeland Security. "InfraGard members have contributed to about 100 FBI cases," Schneck says. "What InfraGard brings you is reach into the regional and local communities. We are a 22,000-member vetted body of subject-matter experts that reaches across seventeen matrixes. All the different stovepipes can connect with InfraGard."

Schneck is proud of the relationships the InfraGard Members Alliance has built with the FBI. "If you had to call 1-800-FBI, you probably wouldn't bother," she says. "But if you knew Joe from a local meeting you had with him over a donut, you might call them. Either to give or to get. We want everyone to have a little black book."

This black book may come in handy in times of an emergency. "On the back of each membership card," Schneck says, "we have all the numbers you'd need: for Homeland Security, for the FBI, for the cyber center. And by calling up as an InfraGard member, you will be listened to." She also says that members would have an easier time obtaining a "special telecommunications card that will enable your call to go through when others will not."

This special status concerns the ACLU.

"The FBI should not be creating a privileged class of Americans who get special treatment," says Jay Stanley, public education director of the ACLU's technology and liberty program. "There's no 'business class' in law enforcement. If there's information the FBI can share with 22,000 corporate bigwigs, why don't they just share it with the public? That's who their real 'special relationship' is supposed to be with. Secrecy is not a party favor to be given out to friends. . . . This bears a disturbing resemblance to the FBI's handing out 'goodies' to corporations in return for folding them into its domestic surveillance machinery."

When the government raises its alert levels, InfraGard is in the loop. For instance, in a press release on February 7, 2003, the Secretary of Homeland Security and the Attorney General announced that the national alert level was being raised from yellow to orange. They then listed "additional steps" that agencies were taking to "increase their protective measures." One of those steps was to "provide alert information to InfraGard program."

"They're very much looped into our readiness capability," says Amy Kudwa, spokeswoman for the Department of Homeland Security. "We provide speakers, as well as do joint presentations [with the FBI]. We also train alongside them, and they have participated in readiness exercises."

On May 9, 2007, George Bush issued National Security Presidential Directive 51 entitled "National Continuity Policy." In it, he instructed the Secretary of Homeland Security to coordinate with "private sector owners and operators of critical infrastructure, as appropriate, in order to provide for the delivery of essential services during an emergency."

Asked if the InfraGard National Members Alliance was involved with these plans, Schneck said it was "not directly participating at this point." Hershman, chairman of the group's advisory board, however, said that it was.

InfraGard members, sometimes hundreds at a time, have been used in "national emergency preparation drills," Schneck acknowledges.

"In case something happens, everybody is ready," says Norm Arendt, the head of the Madison, Wisconsin, chapter of InfraGard, and the safety director for the consulting firm Short Elliott Hendrickson, Inc. "There's been lots of discussions about what happens under an emergency."

One business owner in the United States tells me that InfraGard members are being advised on how to prepare for a martial law situation -- and what their role might be. He showed me his InfraGard card, with his name and e-mail address on the front, along with the InfraGard logo and its slogan, "Partnership for Protection." On the back of the card were the emergency numbers that Schneck mentioned.

This business owner says he attended a small InfraGard meeting where agents of the FBI and Homeland Security discussed in astonishing detail what InfraGard members may be called upon to do.

"The meeting started off innocuously enough, with the speakers talking about corporate espionage," he says. "From there, it just progressed. All of a sudden we were knee deep in what was expected of us when martial law is declared. We were expected to share all our resources, but in return we'd be given specific benefits." These included, he says, the ability to travel in restricted areas and to get people out. But that's not all.

"Then they said when -- not if -- martial law is declared, it was our responsibility to protect our portion of the infrastructure, and if we had to use deadly force to protect it, we couldn't be prosecuted," he says.

I was able to confirm that the meeting took place where he said it had, and that the FBI and Homeland Security did make presentations there. One InfraGard member who attended that meeting denies that the subject of lethal force came up. But the whistleblower is 100 percent certain of it. "I have nothing to gain by telling you this, and everything to lose," he adds. "I'm so nervous about this, and I'm not someone who gets nervous."

Though Schneck says that FBI and Homeland Security agents do make presentations to InfraGard, she denies that InfraGard members would have any civil patrol or law enforcement functions. "I have never heard of InfraGard members being told to use lethal force anywhere," Schneck says.

The FBI adamantly denies it, also. "That's ridiculous," says Catherine Milhoan, an FBI spokesperson. "If you want to quote a businessperson saying that, knock yourself out. If that's what you want to print, fine."

But one other InfraGard member corroborated the whistleblower's account, and another would not deny it.

Christine Moerke is a business continuity consultant for Alliant Energy in Madison, Wisconsin. She says she's an InfraGard member, and she confirms that she has attended InfraGard meetings that went into the details about what kind of civil patrol function -- including engaging in lethal force -- that InfraGard members may be called upon to perform.

"There have been discussions like that, that I've heard of and participated in," she says.

Curt Haugen is CEO of S'Curo Group, a company that does "strategic planning, business continuity planning and disaster recovery, physical and IT security, policy development, internal control, personnel selection, and travel safety," according to its website. Haugen tells me he is a former FBI agent and that he has been an InfraGard member for many years. He is a huge booster. "It's the only true organization where there is the public-private partnership," he says. "It's all who knows who. You know a face, you trust a face. That's what makes it work."

He says InfraGard "absolutely" does emergency preparedness exercises. When I ask about discussions the FBI and Homeland Security have had with InfraGard members about their use of lethal force, he says: "That much I cannot comment on. But as a private citizen, you have the right to use force if you feel threatened."

"We were assured that if we were forced to kill someone to protect our infrastructure, there would be no repercussions," the whistleblower says. "It gave me goose bumps. It chilled me to the bone."

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See more stories tagged with: fbi, infragard, shoot to kill

Matthew Rothschild is the editor of The Progressive.

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Yikes
Posted by: jdogg333 on Feb 8, 2008 12:32 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This has the distinct odor of fascism to me.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Yikes Posted by: desidid
» RE: Yikes Posted by: northerner
» RE: Yikes Posted by: Kitty Lady Oregon
» RE: Yikes Posted by: pb120669
» RE: Yikes Posted by: donl51
» RE: Yikes Posted by: donl51
» This is just SO WRONG! Posted by: Artkansas
» RE: Yikes Posted by: blitzmesser
» RE: Yikes Posted by: Babetta9
» RE: Yikes Posted by: the man with a dog
What happens when (not if!) martial law is declared?
Posted by: jingles on Feb 8, 2008 12:56 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What plans are in place by the fascists (don't know of a better word) and what should the citizen do when Bush declares martial law (this mid to late summer ??) ?
thanks

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Terrorist Posted by: HeKnew
» RE: Here's my idea Posted by: Jasonix
» RE: Here's my idea Posted by: radiomorning
Anti-terror posse
Posted by: Lector on Feb 8, 2008 1:08 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So if an Infragard member having a drink with Joe at the bar who says his neighbor (whom he has a grudge against) is acting suspicious, the Infragard member notifies the FBI or maybe he just shoots him dead to cut through all the bureaucracy.

Put on your tin foil hat and take a ride…actually this is not news. But as a corollary to this, Disney World began using a biometric pass system in 2005 and claims the technology reduces wait times and prevents ticket fraud from occurring in the form of the re-sale of multiday passes. Newt Gingrich, in an article published July 2007 and entitled “Report from the World That Works, Part II” posited that the world would be a better place if our federal government were more like Disney World. The difference between Disney World and the federal government is that there are certain, basic principles that Disney understands. And those are: the loss of our citizen’s privacy and liberty in the never-ending search for “security” and a false sense of Utopia.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Anti-terror posse Posted by: ankhet
» This ISN'T Disney World? Posted by: nochicagoboys
» "...keep the KIDDIES safe..." Posted by: BlueBerry PickN
The good side
Posted by: mbruton on Feb 8, 2008 1:18 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The good side is that these guys are so far outside the law that obviously we as citizens can torture and kill them with impunity. Bring em on. I'm ready.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Interesting Posted by: marid
» RE: The good side Posted by: donl51
» RE: The good side Posted by: carney
» RE: The good side Posted by: ALANHESTER
"Forced to Kill" is a Joke Under Corporate Fascism
Posted by: Mister_PsyOps on Feb 8, 2008 1:29 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Sadly, it's a joke on the public for this brand of insanity.

The Supreme Court of folly has already given our glorious police state authorities immunity for anything they take (i.e. steal) from citizens on the job.

The slippery slope is now a greased slide.

How long before Fascism is in the open and even the pretense of democracy is dropped?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Terrorist Posted by: HeKnew
It will not matter
Posted by: compu on Feb 8, 2008 1:37 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How many storm trops they put on the ground.
With 250 million guns the nation households
own,if deppresion comes we will eat those babies
in no time.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: How many Posted by: bitsfick
» RE: It will not matter Posted by: FAITHCARR
Okay to kill cops and mercenaries.
Posted by: mbruton on Feb 8, 2008 1:56 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
U.S. soldiers, cops, and mercenaries. It's okay to kill them all since all law has been suspended. With no Constitution the law of the land has been surpassed. There is now, in effect no law at all in the US. When the Constitution is dead their is no social contract which gives law moral credence. Please break the law in any way you see fit just as our "leaders" do, kill, rob, rape, it's all good.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

When Martial law is declared.
Posted by: mbruton on Feb 8, 2008 1:59 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When martial law is declared kill cops, politicians, and mercenaries as fast as you can since the government will do the same to you as fast as it can. That is the nature of martial law.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: When Martial law is declared. Posted by: ALANHESTER
As they say the road to hell is made from good intentions...
Posted by: cordas on Feb 8, 2008 2:03 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Seriously I can see a lot of potentail for good in this idea, although I would say it should be a broader goverment link than just the FBI.

Look at the chaos after Katrina where FEMA didn't know its arse from its elbow... a goverment list of recognised companies in key areas is something that seemed obvious. The goverment should have lists of private companies, institutions and people who it can turn to in times of need, it should also have contacts within those organisations that have the power to be able to act quickly.

Ok thats the good idea... the fact this seems to be run like an old boys club is ridiculous, the fact that an investment banker gets told of a threat to a state before the goverment is beyond farce, that these "business class" members of society have a hot line to the FBI and can call in favours such as investigating a "troublesome" employee beggars belief... the image that sprins to mind is one of the Salem Witch Trails and the Spannish inquesition... we don't like you so we are going to find out anything you have ever done wrong...

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Sounds like...
Posted by: chomsky on Feb 8, 2008 2:34 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Sounds like...

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Sounds like... Posted by: progressive farmer ME
There it is
Posted by: saltoafronteira on Feb 8, 2008 3:35 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Parallel state owned by corporate power.
Everything's at its place.
Some days ago I talked about parallel military and parallel intelligence at bush/cheney and his backers service. I also said that a real intelligence work by the legal and people's controlled intelligence agencies should mean spying on those fellows, for your nation's sake.
Fact is that, by now, you really have two states in USA.
One is public and more or less (perhaps more to the "less" side) owned by the People. The other, entirely owned by corporate power.
The question now is: are they going to collide?
There are two possible sceneries here:
1- The future "public" governments try to get things back into place and, probably, the low temperature low speed coup d'état you are living right now will extend to civil war level, of uncertain decision.
2- The future "public" governments keep complying with this "private" escalade and the "official" state is absorbed by the informal one. Than, a new form of fascim will be born.
Either way, hard times are to come for you and the rest of the world.
You know, one day all that corporate power will become multinational (blackwater style)and all the world will be waging an "insurgency" war against them.
The worst nightamrish sci-fi previsions are becoming a probable political equation. Creepy !
The problem is I dont think the next government will be willing, or if willing, able, to stop this private state's raising.
Citizens from BRATTLEBORO, VE, be alert ! One day you will suffer a raid that will kill you all: Afterwards the perpetrators will accuse bin laden of doing it, in order to implement some more liberties-killing act.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: There it is Posted by: ankhet
It is also a certainty...
Posted by: ot on Feb 8, 2008 3:39 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...that private security companies, such as Blackwater who are currently cutting their teeth in Iraq, will form the Schutzstaffel of InfraGard when the time comes. You can bet on it. But don't worry, it's for your own good!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: It is also a certainty... Posted by: nochicagoboys
The fascists are organized - we are not
Posted by: UnEasyOne on Feb 8, 2008 3:42 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In times past, we had unions. In the 60's we had the antiwar and civil rights marches.

For now we have the net.

For now.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Terrorist Posted by: HeKnew
» RE: Terrorist Posted by: StrayCat
» RE: Terrorist Posted by: donnee
» RE: Terrorist Posted by: nochicagoboys
» RE: Terrorist Posted by: sixpack
Terrorist
Posted by: HeKnew on Feb 8, 2008 3:49 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We're agreed, then.

We're united.

Martial law is the final straw.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Terrorist Posted by: peacefullaim
» RE: Terrorist Posted by: Dboy
» RE: Terrorist Posted by: dogman44
» RE: Terrorist GET A GRIP! Posted by: maribelle
The complete fascist story.
Posted by: leland61 on Feb 8, 2008 3:55 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"At its most basic level, InfraGard is a partnership between the Federal Bureau of Investigation and the private sector," the InfraGard website states. "InfraGard chapters are geographically linked with FBI Field Office territories."

This is pure and unadulterated fascism, just in case anyone doesn't understand what fascism really is.

One can include WTO, GATT, NAFTA, IMF, World Bank, as crucial instrumentalities of a world-wide fascism.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Thanks to the author...
Posted by: bobtr900 on Feb 8, 2008 3:57 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...of this article for the heads up. I live in Cleveland and now I know that as soon as martial law is declred they can shoot on sight any one they choose to think is a terrorist.
The right wing hate machine is rampant. Anyone who is not a Rethug is just cannon fodder.
STOP the world I want to get off. Nazism and Fascism are with us once again and right here in the USA. Now they are going to commercialize and privatize killing.
And the two mega religions, including Catholicism my religion, that support the Rethug party must be satisfied with themselves. Off goes another email to Bishop Lennon to remind him of what he has wrought, namely, the unleashing of hate.

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» RE: Thanks to the author... Posted by: lucillebh
Take a deep breath...
Posted by: n7ekg on Feb 8, 2008 3:58 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I've been in and out of law enforcement and SAR and disaster services for the last 30 years. I've worked with the Bureau on terrorism cases, and I can tell you, this whole thing is pretty much blown out of proportion. Sure, if you're a member of InfraGard you'll probably be able to get past police lines to help restore essential services in an emergency, but that's not because you're a member of some good-old-boy's-club! You're also not going to be able to carry a sidearm out in public without a badge to go along with it, and you're certainly not going to be able to gun down people with impunity - even the ATF can't get away with that! An InfraGard card isn't a gold badge, and anyone who thinks so is in for an eventual rude awakening when they find themselves in jail for pulling some stunt because they think InfraGard confers them with some sort of law enforcement ability. On the other hand, if you take out some guy who's planting bombs at your local electric substation, you're probably going to wind up getting a medal the size of a soup plate without a whole lot of questions being asked, InfraGard or not.

The whole slant of the story sounds like it was written by some 20-year-old staffer who hasn't a clue as to how law enforcement works and how public-private partnerships work. There are some lines that you just don't cross, and confusing the difference between "helping law enforcement" and "being law enforcement" is one of them - in fact, crossing that line is a great way for the "helper" to wind up in a jail cell right beside the terrorist he's trying to stop.

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» RE: Take a deep breath... Posted by: mbruton
» RE: Take a deep breath... Posted by: praedor
» RE: Take a deep breath... Posted by: lucillebh
» RE: Take a deep breath... Posted by: peacefullaim
» Take another look Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: Take another look Posted by: aerdrie
» RE: Take another look Posted by: fork
» RE: Take a deep breath... Posted by: helmunator
» RE: Take a deep breath... Posted by: progressive farmer ME
» RE: Take a deep breath... Posted by: Doubtom
» RE: Take a deep breath... Posted by: StrayCat
» RE: Take a deep breath... Posted by: Quannah
» RE: Take a deep breath... Posted by: Skunkatthepicnic
» RE: Take a deep breath... Posted by: scheherezade
» RE: Take a deep breath... Posted by: aerdrie
» RE: Take a deep breath... Posted by: luckypuck
» RE: Take a deep breath... Posted by: outrider
» RE: Take a deep breath... Posted by: Mr. Heathen
salamah mahdi
Posted by: salamah on Feb 8, 2008 4:05 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's coming and Dubya and his thugs are smirking and pointing their middle fingers upwards in the faces of 98% of Americans; the meek, the docile and the lazy. Proof that 98% of Americans are exactly as I have described them? What else could they be, because one half of the 98% have just chosen Mccain whose running partner will be Lieberman (Wow to Invasion of Iran) AND the other half will nominate Hillary! To get an idea of what Americans will have to suffer under any one of these right of the right pugnacious conservatives, they should somehow get to by-pass the CENSORING in place and find out what Blackwater and other Private thugs of MOD and CIA are doing in Iraq. "Americans,Welcome to the Heaven which the 2% CONSERVATIVES amongst you are taking you into where Beelzebubs are welcoming door keepers! There is still time, perhaps very little time, to do something!"

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» RE: salamah mahdi Posted by: Gladia
ahhh, the power of paranoia...
Posted by: ellie on Feb 8, 2008 4:10 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
most people who come to this site are reasonable people, fairly schooled in the constitution and bill of rights... I agree with the ACLU but in louder terms... NO,NO,NO!!!!!

remember this country was founded on terrorism, many are the descendants of terrorists, time to get the game face on, saddle up and be ready for kickoff before the next election....

ps... remember, terrorism is a mindset, not a physical thing, this article exposes psyops at it's finest, or at least it's clumsiest... another blunder from Pennsylvania Avenue... geez, they can't seem to dream up believable shock and awe anymore, people are getting hip to the constant barrage of stupidity...

as to this new team of boy scouts, luckily most are probably unable to carry out new marching orders, trading a pen or spreadsheet for a weapon, but the ID card sure looks fancy...

back to coffee...

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» RE: ahhh, the power of paranoia... Posted by: progressive farmer ME
» RE: The wisdom of paranoia... Posted by: luckypuck
» RE: The wisdom of paranoia... Posted by: 2dogarage
The Emancipation Proclamation By The United Communitiies of America!
Posted by: williameon on Feb 8, 2008 4:27 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Giant (Gulliver) Awakens!

We have been:
Penned
Cattle prodded
Poisoned
Lied to
Spied on
Bulldozed
Robbed
and
Assassinated
Long Enough.

It's over.

Their Filthy, Dirty,
Corrupt, Polluting
System of GREED
Is Self Destructing
As we watch

Now they want to take it up a notch.
Full and total, Blatant Fascism.
Out from the shadows and finally into the light.
Enjoy the Show.
The New Reality Show
Cor‘pirate’ Self Destruction
Corpirates eaten by Parasites.
From the inside out.

The veils become transparent.
One by one
The dominoes fall
The Repression Lifts
Like a house of cards it’s falling apart.

A Millennium of Hypnotic Conditioning and
Propaganda is coming to:
The End!

They would rather destroy themselves and us
Rather then set us free.
Offer no resistance!
It will only make them stronger.
They have all the weapons anyway.
It is the only game they are good at!
Brutality and War.
If we let them pull us down into the gutter with them,
They have WON!

We would become what we hate.
What they are!
THEM!

We have more important things to do besides dwelling in the past.
The future is finally ours and much more important work has to be done.
The possibilities are endless and the rewards great.
Our whole system has to revamped from a
Centralized version to: A totally Decentralized One.
They have gotten us this far and
Now we must take it the rest of the way.
An Economic Renaissance.
The totally diversification and decentralization of:
Energy, Food, Education and Manufacturing production.
Local is better, fresher, healthier and energy conserving.
Self reliance and self sufficiency is the key.
Set the good example.
Take the best of what we know and use it to create something better.
Let’s give our positive, intuitive, creative process a free hand and a blank canvas to work on.
Provide the resources, cooperation, manpower and time to create something
Grand!
A Free Country.
One for all and All for One.

Two paths diverged in the yellow woods and being a free citizen.
We will take the path less traveled.

We must stay true to our Ideals!
They have gotten us this far and are strong enough to take us the rest of the way.
Relying on what we know and Love.

These Positive Creative Ideals!
Cooperation, Brotherly Love, Peacefulness,
Patience, Helpfulness and True Compassion.

It is over.
Just sit back and relax.
All that is left is a lot of Postulating.

Sorry,
You must go!
and
We must stay.

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» The Proclamation! Posted by: williameon
The Bush...
Posted by: bobtr900 on Feb 8, 2008 4:51 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...family tried to take over the government in 1934.
The Catholic Church, my religion, aligned itself with Hitler and the Nazis in 1933, Reichskonkordat of 1933. Now the Church is aligned with Bush and the Rethug party. Do we all remember Kristallnacht9breaking windows in homes and shops to intimidate); and the night of the long knives(executions for political reasons). Do we recall the Hitler youth group, who spied on and reported anyone to the Gestapo. They reported their neighbors and even family members to the Gestapo. Once again my religion is coming down on the wrong side of all of this mess. Back then it was alignd with Hitler and the Nazis and now it is aligned with Bush(Booosh) and the Rethugs.

Does anyone see any similarities? The right wing hate groups and their haters grow ever bolder.

Stop the world, I want to get off.

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» RE: The Bush... Posted by: Kitty Lady Oregon
» RE: The Bush... Posted by: bornxeyed
Cheneyize the swine!
Posted by: Knowmad on Feb 8, 2008 5:08 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If you Americans are serious about fighting back against this latest 'Blackwater in disguise', I suggest you really bone up on your marksmanship. This is because - probably due to your hard-working tax dollars - these sad Rambo wannabes all sporting full body armour, which means you're going to have to try for a face shot if you're going to "git them afore they git you."

Luckily, I believe you have a high-ranking official who's an expert at this. I've heard he can even make the shot when he's drunk and on drugs!

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» sabotage Posted by: wagadog
» RE: Just like to zombie movies Posted by: kungfoofighterx
» RE: Cheneyize the swine! Posted by: ALANHESTER
how
Posted by: Philor on Feb 8, 2008 5:15 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When you see things like that you want to actually ask you the right question: Why to these organizations find members to recruit? COuld such organization exist in Sweden or Holland?
Let me give you an answer: No.
Why is there such a huge reservoir of freaks in the US ready to be used like that in various organizations?

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» Ordinary American TV Posted by: Cathyc
» RE: Ordinary American TV Posted by: Kitty Lady Oregon
» RE: Ordinary American TV Posted by: Quannah
I am running for U.S. Senate
Posted by: Age of Reason on Feb 8, 2008 5:15 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I do not need the power. I do not need the money. I do not need the headaches. But I am running for U.S. Senate in NY in 2010 and will help show the way that Independents can take back our country.

Why? Because this sort of thing has GOT TO STOP!

Let peace begin with me...

My Facebook site [preliminary] - please join and check it out.

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» RE: I am running for U.S. Senate Posted by: peacefullaim
Brown Shirts?
Posted by: douglashoyt on Feb 8, 2008 5:42 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This government is following the routine of the German Nazi party of 1933-1945.

Let's hope our country does not end as ruined.

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» RE: Brown Shirts? Posted by: ALANHESTER
Can you say, "Police state"
Posted by: eosrk on Feb 8, 2008 5:52 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
the statement says it all!

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To borrow from an old TV show
Posted by: praedor on Feb 8, 2008 5:53 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Anyone recall Babylon 5? Do you recall the Nightwatch? That was my second thought. The first was "fascism, plain and simple". No argument. Period.

Private security companies (ie, private armies) given carte blanche to thug around: Blackwater trolling around NOLA after Katrina just itching to blow away uppity blacks and po' folk, now looking to patrol our borders (to keep out the brownies AND, if requested, keep US in). TIPS. Warrantless spying and tracking. Government-corporate partnerships in domestic surveillance, profiling, and tracking of every move, every purchase (Choicepoint, Acxiom, LexusNexus, etc). Now the Nightwatch, err, I mean "InfraGard". Then we have nonsense like "free speech zones", are now expected to carry and show our "papers" at any time to any cop/brownshirt for ANY reason or no reason...and needing Dept of der Faderland Security permission to come back home after travel outside the borders IF you are even allowed to exit the borders.

We are not stumbling towards police state/fascism. We are there already. We the People are in the vice now and all that can happen now is the screw be turned and the vice tightened at a moment's notice from "dear leader".

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Our very own homegrown terrorists
Posted by: BobS on Feb 8, 2008 5:57 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Well at least we know who they are going to enlist into their paramilitary death squads. So when is InfraGard going to start dealing drugs like other US supported terrorists?

Bob Simpson
The BobboSphere

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» Cute Lil Bunny Posted by: HeKnew
JT Barrie
Posted by: rimchamp77 on Feb 8, 2008 5:57 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
While most of those involved as citizen taxpayers are sincere and responsible, there will be more than enough Rambo types there with hairtrigger violence. And these clandestine organizations always adopt the Code of Silence and lies about these maverick loose cannons. The FBI will lie and cover up their atrocities and often frame innocent people to protect them - much like police protect "snitches" in the criminal world. Unlike the regular FBI these people don't undergo the hours of special training - that doesn't deter all Rambo types in law enforcement - in dealing with the public. This organization will NOT attract peaceable citizens like clergy who know how to deal with problems without the use of force or coercion. This organization will not solve any problems. It will be like throwing gasoline on a smoldering fire. We need to seriously address the issues that provoke violent reactions from citizenry and provide alternative venues for solution. This is the direct result of a "not open for discussion" mentality of our political class with regards to abuses of the political system.

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Now where the hell are those "libertarians" and "conservatives" who want small government ?!?!?
Posted by: maxpayne on Feb 8, 2008 6:00 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Come to think of it, Wall Street and the Military Industrial Complex win while the rest of us are shoved to the losers column. No wonder the "libertarians" and "conservatives" have no intention of ABOLISHING the FBI !

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Hired Killers
Posted by: BeyondBeliefs on Feb 8, 2008 6:21 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So, can I now hire a professional to murder my neighbor's family and pets ?
Is that OK with everyone now ?

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» RE: Hired Killers Posted by: ALANHESTER
The Hidden Tranquilisers
Posted by: flymulla on Feb 8, 2008 6:43 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
FBI Deputizes Private Contractors With Extraordinary Powers, Including 'Shoot to Kill'
Matthew Rothschild
Oh for the most serene news about the wellbeing of the FBI and CIA. Now we will not have any leaks in any of the propagandas as this will be routed to and pointed out to the third party. I love no blame of any nature. I am always clean, albeit, I have many crooked under me, but I am clean and that allows me to sleep well
I thank you
Firozali A. Mulla MBA PhD
P.O.Box 6044
Dar-Es-Salaam
Tanzania
East Africa

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there IS an element of paranoia...
Posted by: mwildfire on Feb 8, 2008 6:47 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
because this will not be used, visibly, until and unless they declare martial law. No, they won't do so to stop a Democrat from taking the White House, certainly not if it's Clinton, whom they long ago approved. They will ONLY do so if the sheep of America finally get to the point where they drag their heads out of their TV fantasy worlds and take to the streets to try to reclaim their democracy. There is no sign that such a thing is imminent. But if something does happen to trigger that reaction in a public that's pathetically passive, but also pretty fed up...THEN we'll see the gloves come off and everything will be in place for rounding up dissidents, by the hundreds of thousands if necessary, and marching us off to the Halliburton camps, for clamping down on the alternative media (the mainstream media is an intimately involved piece of the ruling junta), probably for executing us without trials if desired, and then openly spying on and killing those not in the camps whose naievete is blown away by these shocking events...that is, blown away enough to express shock but not enough to realize they'd better hide those thoughts.
So what should those of us not leaving the country do? Set yourself up for local self-sufficiency, build your local community, educate people around you one-on-one, demonstrate the alternative. No, I don't think this is a sufficent answer but it's the best I can come up with. And don't forget that our only hope is resistance--don't forget that only mass illusion allows this tiny cabal to control events in a way that's enormously detrimental to 99.9999% of the people on the planet as well as all of the other living things and future creatures. Our job is to break through that veil of illusion, to get those around us to take the red pill.
Unfortunately, there are probably reasons these bastards are expecting a revolt from the comatose American public--something they know about what's coming...

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Kip
Posted by: snax on Feb 8, 2008 7:14 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That brings up the very valid point that if 'ordinary citizens' feel a threat to their person or property, that have just as much right to lethal force against members of this group.

Aint it wonderful to think that the Hitler Youth movement has been reborn in a bunch of paranoid adults? Our second amendment rights were created to protect us from OUR OWN government as much as from outsiders.

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SO JOIN
Posted by: pinget on Feb 8, 2008 7:44 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As many of us as possible should join so we know what they're doing exactly. Infiltrate!

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» RE: SO JOIN Posted by: dogman44
The German rise of their police state in a book
Posted by: Earthian on Feb 8, 2008 8:17 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The outrage here about InfraGard is so encouraging. Thanks posters. I'm not alone.

I just read Sebastian Haffner's amazing memoir of being an Aryan German who hated the rise of the National Socialists in Germany. The book in English is called "Defying Hitler." It is fabulous. It was unpublished during his lifetime. He died in 1999. His son found it among his papers and published it in Germany. It sold a million copies. It is an easy, page-turning read. He chronicles the period from 1914 (when he was seven) to 1933 when it was too late. He was 26. It is up close and personal. It reveals the events from the point of view of a regular, non-Jewish person. (He had a Jewish girlfriend.) He documents the daily brutality, that mass psychology, the cultural conditions, the apathy and more. The bad news is, by comparison, it IS happening here. The good news is that it is obviously NOT too late here. We are not in prison or dead yet. No AlterNet author has been imprisoned or killed for opposing the direction of the state. The question is what to do, with whom, how to do it.

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New World Order
Posted by: outlander55 on Feb 8, 2008 8:17 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is some seriously scary shit. Can't the people see what is happening? Or are they so absorbed in the new season of American Idol and NASCAR to see what is going on? Our country is being hijacked by greedy power hungry corporatists that would enslave the common man. You think that our prisons are over crowded now? Just wait until the Bush cronies start arresting people for dissent. Haliburton is building work camp prisons all over the country and yet the people sleep on.
When it happens, it will happen so fast, you won't even realize it. Bush will declare Marshall Law due to some contrived event that might not even be real. Blackwater will be deputized as Federal Marshalls to "protect" the citizenry from undesirables. Private citizens will be disarmed for their own protection. George Bush will suspend elections and disband both houses of Congress.
If the people don't rise up and stop it, we will get what we deserve for being so complacent.

Good night and good luck...

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do not lose any sleep over the Infragard
Posted by: solrev on Feb 8, 2008 8:53 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I would not get real excited about some civilians playing secret agent man for the government. They may be brainwashed that they are Rambos and a part of the quick and the dead, but I doubt it. We had something like the Infragard in Nam. You are stuck out in a real forward bunker and your job was simple, notify the rear just before you get killed. Nobody wanted to do that job.

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War on terror fraud
Posted by: gulu on Feb 8, 2008 8:56 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Until John Q public understands the war on terror is orchistrated by factions within our own government and other foreign governments, this maddness will never end.Unfortunatly, most of the public gets their "news" from mainstream sources, which are nothing but propaganda mouth pieces for this fraud.Our so called elected leaders are all beholden to the real terrorists that pull the levers of power and war ,the international banking oligarchy and the Zionist infested governments they control.

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Run for cover,the Devil's at the door
Posted by: jeffrey7 on Feb 8, 2008 8:58 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How much more proof do we need that this country has gone down the road of the Tyrants?
Before we had an FBI, the government used the mafia for it's ruthless deeds.Then Hoover turned his brother loose on the Mob, The cross dresser J. Edgar. Kennedy used the Mob to get his son made President,then John played 'screw your buddy' with them with his brother Bobby.
The FBI was part of Cointelpro which targeted many social justice organizers and set about killing them.They even went so far as to have their own killed in South Dakota,by their own bullets. They use falsified information and contrived testimony in kangaroo courts to gain convictions of the innocent. Now they have the right to kill us without just cause or any reprisals.
Tyrants are tyrants.You can wrap them up in red,white and blue,blast the national anthem and pretend you're doing good service to the country but all you really have is Tyranny proped up by force against an overwhelmed populace that's so busy just trying to survive,they have no time to see what's really going on, The Nazifacation of America.This just proves that to be true.But then again the FBI has always been butchers hiding behind a badge.
Jeffrey7
www.youtube.com/RevJeffrey7

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Question
Posted by: NoPCZone on Feb 8, 2008 9:08 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
With Carnivore, Blackwater, the Military Commissions Act, the nonsense in the article, the trampling of Habeas Corpus and all the rest;why are there not millions out in the street like the immigrant's protest last year?What level have our people descended to? Are we a nation of sheeple or people?

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» RE: Question Posted by: Quannah
» RE: Question Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: Frozen By Fear Posted by: jeffrey7
I would urge you all...
Posted by: Quannah on Feb 8, 2008 9:20 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
to read (or re-read) George Orwell's 1984...

We're living it!

More spyin' and lyin'... when will it all end?

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» RE: I would urge you all... Posted by: arthurread
NOW I REALLY FEEL SAFE, THANKS GEORGE
Posted by: VZEQICVA on Feb 8, 2008 9:27 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Actually I felt safer when I went to work in Newark, NJ during the riots. And to Lower Manhattan 8 days after Sept. 11. At least I could trust the people whose job it was to protect us. I was told politely not to take pictures and so I stopped. But I didn't get shot. Now I'm not so sure what would happen. I'm not even sure what my point is! I just know that it's not in my nature to be 'scared' all the time. Thanks, ANNA

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» 9/11 was an INSIDE JOB!!!! Posted by: fsuthai
» Yes, 9/11 was an INSIDE JOB!!!! Posted by: Susan Kipping
Friends of the Reich Leader-SS?
Posted by: aerdrie on Feb 8, 2008 9:30 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Holy crap.

I'm currently reading "The Third Reich in Power" by Richard J. Evans, and InfraGard sounds eerily similar to Himmler's SS, as well as his special "Friends of the Reich Leader-SS."

We are in trouble now.

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» RE: Friends of the Reich Leader-SS? Posted by: radiomorning
The rich are frightened
Posted by: DaBear on Feb 8, 2008 9:30 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Under the MCA, martial law doesn't even have to be declared for InfraGard to act with lethal force.

It's live people, the rich folk are frightened of the poor and working class' resentment and bitter rage against them.

Accountability is going be a bitch so the rich folk have hired thugs to protect them from being accountable for their obscene behavior last couple of decades.

I used to think civil war was farther off... until my residence was converted from a condo to a campground. God bless 'Merkuh, land of the fragged and the stoopid.

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Maybe
Posted by: willymack on Feb 8, 2008 9:46 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We ought to begin thinking about how to survive the collapse of our economy and rule of law, as well as preventing another psychotic halfwit from ruining everything that was good, noble, and decent about our fallen society.

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» RE: Maybe Posted by: lissajayne
What's in a name?
Posted by: 2dogarage on Feb 8, 2008 10:09 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This article sure has everyone's panties in a wad.

How can anyone be sure this isn't a tactic to "flush out" the anarchists among us?

Personally I don't trust anyone with the name Rothschild. This will make for lots of laughs at the family reunion.

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» RE: What's in a name? Posted by: rockpicker
TO: n7ekg RE. “lines”
Posted by: luckypuck on Feb 8, 2008 10:25 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
*Illegal wiretapping is a line that was crossed.
*Vote theft is a line that was crossed.
*Uncovering active intelligence agents is a line that was crossed.
*Falsifying intelligence to justify an illegal, immoral, unnecessary war is a line that was crossed.
*Immunizing telecom co-conspiring lawbreakers from prosecution is a line that was crossed.
*Immunizing America’s terrorists (Blackwater) from prosecution for murder and other terrorist acts is a line that was crossed.
*Torture is a line that was crossed.
*Extraordinary rendition is a line that was crossed.
*Liberals relative silence and acquiescence in all the above matters is a line that was crossed.

President Dwight D. Eisenhower, a Republican, for crying out loud, warned us all about the threat of the Military-Industrial complex. That complex got its biggest boost when Ronald Reagan took office and has been rising to power ever since. With the help of Newt Gingrich’s “Contract ON America” and Cheneybush's attack on our Constitution, legal, social and moral restraints slowly and quietly have been removed.

WE ARE WISE TO BE PARANOID!

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And you think the Democrats will save you.
Posted by: BJT on Feb 8, 2008 10:42 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It would be funny if the consequences weren't so tragic.

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I give up....
Posted by: ibemee on Feb 8, 2008 11:28 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I just hope I die of my depression before I see what becomes of my grandkids.
http://www.fas.org/irp/offdocs/nspd/index.html May 9, 2007, George Bush issued National Security Presidential Directive 51 entitled "National Continuity Policy."
http://www.whitehouse.gov /news/releases/2007/05/20070509-12.html National Security and Homeland Security Presidential Directive


NOBODY that I have tried to talk to about this has paid any attention to me... they 'don't want to clutter their minds with all that stuff', and often say they wouldn't understand it if they tried...... my understanding is that they think I'm nuts for wasting time with such crapp... (A relative I'm ashamed to admit) even told me "that is what we elect politicians to handle for us". (THAT nearly gave me apoplexy!)

Sooo, we know that, even if we could force people to have a look at things like this article and this 'exec directive', the regular John Doe wouldn't bother reading past the first paragraphs or so which sound inocuous enough...

BUT... if this was actually what The PUBLIC needs to know, why would all previous plans be revoked and WHY are the important parts CLASSIFIED TOP SECRET??
""(22) Revocation. Presidential Decision Directive 67 of October 21, 1998 ("Enduring Constitutional Government and Continuity of Government Operations"), including all Annexes thereto, is hereby revoked.
(23) Annex A and the classified Continuity Annexes, attached hereto, are hereby incorporated into and made a part of this directive.
24) Security. This directive and the information contained herein shall be protected from unauthorized disclosure, provided that, except for Annex A, the Annexes attached to this directive are classified and shall be accorded appropriate handling, consistent with applicable Executive Orders. ""


I give up. Furthermore, I sadly realize that I'll never even have the satisfaction of "I told you so".

INCIDENTLY --- has anyone noticed that Romney's sudden decision to postpone his candidacy fits right into this, as the means to psychologically manipulate the election? HOW THE HELL CAN A CANDIDATE PUT HIMSELF "ON HOLD"? In the REAL America, you were always either IN or OUT of the race .........wtf????.......

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» RE: I give up....don't! Posted by: stangman89
» RE: I give up....don't! Posted by: nochicagoboys
Public-private partnerships - like National Socialism and I.G. Farben?
Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Feb 8, 2008 11:43 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The most interesting part of this article is the following: "Its communications with the FBI and Homeland Security are beyond the reach of the Freedom of Information Act under the "trade secrets" exemption, its website says."

The same thing is going on all throughout the federal government, from academics to border patrol to the FBI - "outsourcing" jobs to private interests and then claiming that they are protected from scrutiny, congressional oversight, or judicial review because they are in the private sector.

The government needs to get a warrant to spy on people, but do private security firms also need to? If the government hires a private security firm to spy on someone, do they need a warrant?

This has plenty of precedent, however - U.S. contracts with Dyncorp in the "war on drugs" in South America are another example, and so is the outsourcing of the U.S. biological and nuclear warfare programs to private sector corporations, as well as the cooperation of Verizon and AT&T with the illegal domestic spying operation run by the White House.

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Suspension of disbelief...
Posted by: radiomorning on Feb 8, 2008 12:02 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's amazing how long people hold onto disbelief. There's this attitude of "Oh, they can't really be doing all this." or "The American people would never allow this," as if they had a choice.
We learn history for a reason people. Look around for a few instances of free peoples being subjugated in the past and you will find that it is not the exception, it is the rule.
Despots will always try to find their way to the top and take complete control, and Americans have failed to protect their safeguard against this inevitability: the constitution.
In the context of modern American culture, that is, in the context of CNN, FAUX News, General Electric et al., this threat is completely spurious. I doubt it even gets a mention. However, in the context of history, real human history, this becomes a very real threat.
It's not outlandish, it's not paranoid, it's not overreaction.
It's time to take offense. Its time to refuse to play their game, to buy into their paradigm of a free and truly democratic America. It's time to start thinking like the free people we were all born to be.
If they declare war on us, we declare war on them.

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no worries
Posted by: jc1234 on Feb 8, 2008 12:59 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If some infraguard or police or FBI person kills me for some bogus reason, then 1. I ain't got anything to worry about anymore 2. What comes around goes around EVERY SINGLE time, then they have that to fear.
I'd rather invite them in the house for a cup of hot coffee and talk about stuff. Besides with the economy in the dumps due to 'free trade' the business people are going have more serious things to deal with like the complete loss of their businesses.

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The Road Towards Legitimizing Torture, "Disappearances," and the Like
Posted by: sofla100 on Feb 8, 2008 1:17 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When we started the "war on terror," Bush was adamant that "the gloves need to come off." And, they most certainly have, to a large degree. It started after 911 and the "round-ups" of Arabs. It moved to Abu Ghraib, CIA prisons and extraordinary renditions. Today, we are at the phase of wiretapping, and the executive having been given the authority to do this without cause nor warrant. But, a problem remains. If government employees engage directly in torture, they could be sued. Elected officials could be held accountable by the electorate. And then, you have that pesky old thing called "The Freedom of Information Act." No problem however, a perfect solution can be found with your friendly private contractors. All you need to do is give them a general outline of "what needs to be accomplished," and, pay them the right price, with access to what they want. Then, if anybody complains, and if some liberal paper like the NY Times or something prints pictures of 10 year old's being tortured in Iraq, all you have to do is say it's not the US government. Even if linked, all you have to do is say your firing the private contractor and such actions were never "authorized." As for the contractor, they can always go out of business, re-form under another name a few weeks later, and then you can hire them all back again. Hence, the grisly business of having undesirables in Iraq or Afghanistan "disappear," the necessity of pulling out some fingernails so some "raghead talks," and all the rest of it. As for in the USA, the serious problem where some don't want to support the "war on terror," and don't want their email read. They also need to be dealt with. It will take a little while, but we are well on the way,...

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Guess it's time to buy a gun or two.
Posted by: thekidde on Feb 8, 2008 1:33 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Haven't needed one since my vacation in sunny South East Asia, but with this shit going on looks like I'll need one soon.

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Sometimes paranoia is justified
Posted by: Ellen Remore on Feb 8, 2008 1:39 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Does this sound to anyone like the brainchild of an administration that is getting ready to hand over the reins of government to. . . Hillary Clinton? Barack Obama? Even John McCain?

I will believe the 2008 presidential election will actually be allowed to take place when the new Chief Exec is being sworn in.

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» RE: Sometimes paranoia is justified Posted by: Susan Kipping
FBI eh? & the "Server in the Sky", too?
Posted by: BlueBerry PickN on Feb 8, 2008 1:51 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
gee, maybe you should be CONCERNED.

What is the 'Server In The Sky'?

only a biometrics program for international HUMAN tracking, coordinated by the US FBI.

gee, sorta like the EU's FRONTEX.

Enjoy those rubber bullets, tasers & gas while you can, folks...

oh yeah, did you NOTICE that TASER is rolling out SNIPER RIFLES which YOUR POLICE ARE BUYING to CONTROL YOUR ability to PEACEFUL ASSEMBLY.

pay attention, folks.

when you LOSE THE MECHANICS OF DEMOCRACY, there IS no democracy.
This is What Democracy Looks Like
" ...we started to weave our way through the road blocks that they had set up
...
I looked around & I could see that people were afraid & at that point I said that's not fear in your gut or your throat that's really your first Taste of Freedom"
~- Hop Hopkins, Brown Collective, from This is What Democracy Looks Like, discussing Day 2 of the infamous 1999 WTO Seattle Protest.

Super Delegates. Yummy.
still 'leading the Free World', eh?


===
There's something happening here
What it is ain't exactly clear
There's a man with a gun over there
Telling me I got to beware
I think it's time we stop, children, what's that sound
Everybody look what's going down
There's battle lines being drawn
Nobody's right if everybody's wrong
Young people speaking their minds
Getting so much Resistance from behind
I think it's time we stop, hey, what's that sound
Everybody look what's going down
What a field-day for The Heat
A thousand people in the street
Singing songs and carrying signs
Mostly say, hooray for our side
It's time we stop, hey, what's that sound
Everybody look what's going down
Paranoia strikes deep
Into your life it will creep
It starts when you're always afraid
You step out of line, the man come and take you away
We better stop, hey, what's that sound
Everybody look what's going down
Stop, hey, what's that sound
Everybody look what's going down
Stop, now, what's that sound
Everybody look what's going down
Stop, children, what's that sound
Everybody look what's going down

=== For What It's Worth - Buffalo Springfield ===


Spread Love...
... but wear the Glove!


BlueBerry Pick'n
can be found @
"ThisCanadian
~~~
"We, two, form a Multitude" ~ Ovid.
~~~
"Silent Freedom is Freedom Silenced"

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No big surprise here. Anyone read Blackwater?
Posted by: allthingslucid on Feb 8, 2008 2:44 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
by Jeremy Scahill??

I did. And it's so damn frightening, how Bush and company have helped to instigate this police state. And the FBI and ever other intelligence gathering organization is piggy backing on it by hiring these "guns for hire."

Say goodbye to your civil rights. The United States is united only in fear of itself and the world outside of it.

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Constitution schmonstitution!
Posted by: MTguy on Feb 8, 2008 3:01 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hmmmm... maybe I missed something when I read my copy of the Constitution, but I see nothing in it authorizing an entity such as this to be connected to our government. Oh, well. President Bush isn't fond of "protecting and defending" our Constitution when it doesn't suit him anyway. Just because a guy took an oath...

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sslyon
Posted by: sslyon on Feb 8, 2008 3:32 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"PARTNERSHIPS"?? This is extremely disturbing, nightmarish. This MUST get national and global attention, NOW and Continuously. Next we'll be hearing about the equivalent to the Youth Bund! WE THE PEOPLE MUST RISE AND TAKE BACK OUR GOVERNMENT!!!

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And the Star humans called Sun turned bright red; its light reaching the 3rd planet from it...
Posted by: StPeteRican on Feb 8, 2008 4:16 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
... in 8 minutes.

The burning light of the Star humans called Sun as it reached the end if its life, as it emptied itself of its last deposits of hydrogen, grew in size in an amazing glory of colors and swallowed all the planets that kept it company for the past few billion years.

And then there was darkness and stillness.

But for how long?

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Ron Paul is the answer
Posted by: stangman89 on Feb 8, 2008 4:39 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Ron Paul is the only presidential candidate who has spoken about the intrusion of government in our lives. Time for Americans to wake up and see what is happening to our nation today. Labels such as republicans, democrats, liberals, neocons are used by the powers that be to divide and conquer us. We need to unite today and vote for a statesmen, not a politician, who can lead us out of this mess. For the open minded, go to his website and read where Ron Paul stands on the issues. No other candidate comes close.

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» RE: on Paul is the answer Posted by: stangman89
WHEN THE WIND BLOWS
Posted by: Cathyc on Feb 8, 2008 4:44 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
WHEN THE WIND BLOWS

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YouTube - WHEN THE WIND BLOWS
Posted by: Cathyc on Feb 8, 2008 4:46 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=OdguWMF1abU

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Critical Infrastructure Protection
Posted by: Dboy on Feb 8, 2008 4:53 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why is this news? None of this is secret and has been going on for quite a few years now. In fact, you can get college degrees on this and related topics. The basic idea is that the government has identified various US sectors as critical to the ongoing survival of the US. These various sectors are known as the 'Critical Infrastructure'. This means things like the financial sector, water supply, power generation, etc. After 9-11 it became obvious that new communications channels needed to exist to protect this infrastructure. One way of doing this is to establish connections with various employees who are experts in various sectors as points of contact. My experience is in the financial sector (financial sector cyber-security). So if the FBI/Secret Service becomes aware of a potential attack against the financial sector (which DOES happen), then points of contact at 'important' companies in that sector would be notified.

Yes there is obviously a sinister aspect to all of this, but look at it this way. At the end of the day, the US is NOT a real country, it's a corporate enterprise that has fooled almost everyone that it is a country. If you choose to be a flag-waver, Army infantryman, etc. you're just a sucker and it's your own fault. This country has been all about exploitation from the very beginning (just ask the Native Americans or the black slaves). If you choose to ignore the beginnings of this country(the genocide of one race and the enslavement of another) then you are only fooling yourself. It's a little bit late to start complaining about collusion between government and corporations.

It is starting to appear that the days may be numbered for the US, and rational people are hopefully doing the things necessary to prepare for this possibility. After all, if you read history books you cannot help but notice that peaceful times seem to be fairly rare. Think about that and prepare.

Most likely the US government will crack down on this wonderful Internet toy we have, so we need to start making REAL connections, with REAL people (but only small independent groups). The Internet has been identified by the Dept of Defense as a threat, so don't count on it being around. Internet II, which is coming soon, will be an attempt to better control it and prevent us from doing what we do at Alternet and other venues.

No bullshit, the new dark age is coming and some of us are already preparing.


Dboy

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» The Internet -- it was fun! Posted by: Cathyc
Cute Lil Bunny
Posted by: HeKnew on Feb 8, 2008 5:23 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Look at the guy in the picture. Wasn't he in "Cheers"?

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» RE: Cute Lil Bunny Posted by: Bec59
Kat Hak Sung
Posted by: kathaksung on Feb 8, 2008 5:53 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That's another power grip, a step to fascist. The infrastructure to FBI is just like S.S. to Hitler. Though in the name of national security.

Don't forget 911 attack was a false flag attack. The anthrax letter. And the rigging election and manipulating of media. You know who is behind it.

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The Stormtroopers are coming
Posted by: Sapator J Cleck on Feb 8, 2008 6:01 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If you just watch WTC7 fall and then follow your nose, it's amazing what you will discover.
We are being controlled by an elite group of CFR/Bilderberger/Bankster fucks who are bent on bringing in a police state and a one world government. It's a bitter pill to swallow, but we need to face it.
It's a one party system folks. Nothing will change under Hillary. Her dad is a mobster. These people are sick and depraved. They sold their souls long ago.
Good luck dealing with the horror. Complacency means serfdom. There isn't much time.

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Sounds exciting!!!
Posted by: carney on Feb 8, 2008 6:09 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You mean i'll be able to trade in my $150 wal-mart lever action .30-30 for a nice, new m16A1 with a grenade launcher too??? Or one of those automatic shotgun things? For free? Well, not free but you know.
They're like dumb little kids poking sticks in a hornets nest.

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Finally! You took the red pill. Welcome to the club
Posted by: stangman89 on Feb 8, 2008 6:24 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have been on Alternet for years and haven't seen this much awareness by the people of what is happening to our nation. Yes, the government will eventually turn on us. Read your history books. Not the ones you read in school. They have been sanitized.

One question I have is will we have an election this year? If so, which candidate will fight tooth and nail to legalize the constitution? I have already stated I am backing Ron Paul and have taken flack for this. He is the only candidate who isn't a member of the CFR (Council on Foreign Relations). For those of you who care about our nation go to www.cfr.org and input "north american" in the search box. What do you see? They have been planning this for decades. I tell people about this all the time. Some wake up, others just want to go back to their Xbox. What will you do?

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Survival Strategies in a crumbling empire
Posted by: Dboy on Feb 8, 2008 8:22 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If I aspired to write an article for Alternet it would be on the topic of survival strategies. We get plenty of articles more or less about 'hey, look what the government is doing now, boy are we screwed or what?', and not nearly enough on WHAT TO DO ABOUT IT. Well, as nice as it would be to be fighting The Empire like Luke, Leia, and Han Solo, it's seriously doubtful that our enemies would be such pushovers. After all, designing the Death Star in such a way that it would blow up with one carefully placed shot into an exhaust vent is a seriously bad design flaw...unlikely. This enemy, however we define it (neoconism, greedism, Amerofascism, whatever) may be evil, but it isn't stupid.

It is a bit surprising to me that the Iraqi's are still managing to put up a fight (good for them), but I'm going to assume that when the US government attacks turn inward, America itself will be a pushover. I suppose there will be some good ol' boys in pickups who shoot a few soldiers but that will die out in a month, 6 months tops. Seems to me that there are basically 2 general ways of dealing with and surviving as a citizen of a crumbling empire:

1) a variant on Rambo

2) a variant on James Bond

The Rambo strategy (living in the woods, killing stuff, eating rats, being dirty all the time) is not to my liking. I prefer option 2, the James Bond strategy. It consists of moving to an exotic foreign locale where you sit in cafes and read about all the ugliness going on in the country you smartly escaped from.

While it would be admirable staying home and killing fascists, likely I'd only wing 1 or 2 before they get me...so better wait it out in a civilized country somewhere. Wandering around a foreign city like Marlon Brando in Last Tango in Paris (looking for sticks of butter on sale:-) ) has to be preferable to Johnny Rambo. It's not that I'm against violence or anything, it's just that it would be kinda nice to survive it. Because I am very curious about what things will be like in 30 years, and the only way to find that out is to live long enough to see it.

dboy

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Fascism 101
Posted by: WillieD on Feb 8, 2008 8:37 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In the book Social and Political Philosophy, edited by Somerville and Santoni is a little essay by Mussolini on the Doctrine of Fascism. I recently was reading through it to see what the fascists said about things. Oddly enough the next time I heard, virtually word for word, these same sentiments was when Mitt Romney was bowing out of the race. He gave a speech that was so obviously fascist it was like some kind of stunt to see who was listening, like when they show people Hitler's writings and have them guess which political leader wrote it. Yeah, America is knee deep in a fascist government even as we speak. The questions we need to answer are: can we turn this around to restore a democratic republic, or will the world do it for us and what will be left when they do? They have invented new names for the flavor of fascism we have, but a duck walks, quacks and swims like a duck. Between the Infragard, Blackwater and the Swiftboaters we have an uphill struggle to get our country back and it might just be we don't have the wherewithal to do it, in which case I suggest we all retire to Second Life or Iceland. I'm serious as a heart attack. They are in charge, they have the guns and the numbers and make the phony laws which most Americans will shrug their shoulders about and continue planting rice. All we have is a historical perspective and the Internet. Keep your camera phones on the prowl and uplink the evidence as fast as you get it. If we can get a shot of Condi and George doing the dirty in the gym we might get to impeach the creep. He can do a lot of harm in one year. How far did Mussolini get in one year?

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» RE: Doctrine of Fascism Posted by: Dboy
» RE: Fascism 101 Posted by: Bec59
» RE: Fascism 101 Posted by: Gladia
RE: Ron Paul is not my answer
Posted by: luckypuck on Feb 8, 2008 10:04 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I’m not fully conversant with Ron Paul’s candidacy, but I do know he favors limited constitutional government, low taxes, free markets, and a return to sound monetary policies. I am in favor of a strong central government, taxation to the extent needed to keep me safe and free, and I don’t believe that the free market is really free. I favor sound monetary policies, but so does Bush (he says). I don’t see anything on Paul's website that appears to address the topic of this thread, except, as every candidate, he upholds the Constitution. But then, so does Bush say this.

Limited government is a ploy to reduce the average citizen’s ability to object to the same kind of things that are addressed here. We are beset by big oil, big insurance, big health care, big auto, big businesses of every kind. There also are big foreign governments, big coalitions of small foreign governments, big military and yes, big government itself. How can a limited constitutional government EVER hope to protect its citizens from all that bigness, EVER hope to protect our freedoms? Essentially this is a “divide and conquer” strategy: Without a strong central government, only the state and local governments are our protection of last recourse. What do you think your state could do all by itself to stop the juggernaut of big business? Answer? Not a thing.

Low taxes are nice, but without borrowing they don’t buy the military might we need, the guarantees that our food, water, drugs, clothing, cars, etc. are safe and their manufacture is not exploitive. Without taxes, the government can’t provide any of the other services a central government is constitutionally obligated to provide. I don’t mind paying more taxes for the services I need from the government, but first, control government waste; second, control pork; third, tax equitably, each according to his ability. If ninety percent of the wealth of this nation is in the hands of three percent of the population, then collectively, that three percent should pay ninety percent of the cost of the government. If ten percent of the wealth of this nation is in the hands of ninety-seven percent of the population, then collectively, that ninety-seven percent should pay for three percent of the cost of the government. It's only fair.

(Continued below)

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» RE: on Paul is not my answer Posted by: stangman89
» RE: on Paul is not my answer Posted by: luckypuck
Continued
Posted by: luckypuck on Feb 8, 2008 10:08 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Free markets? Are you kidding? That’s one of the three BIG myths of economics. Free markets are not free! Free markets payoff CEOs and big investors, but cost us consumers and workers. Free markets work only by exploiting both consumers and workers plenty. When some company spends ten dollars to manufacture one widget, then sells it at twelve dollars, it’s charging two dollars more than the intrinsic value of the widget. That’s exploitation. If it takes ten workers to produce one widget, but the owners fire three, then require the remaining seven to continue to produce one widget for the same salary, that’s exploitation. In a free market, in free enterprise, in a capitalist society, the economy can only be successful by exploitation. This all can work very well, but it requires non-negotiable restraint by the owners and investors. When they become greedy, the exploitation level ratchets up and oppresses, suppresses, represses consumers and workers.

Second, market forces are in no way some immutable power, some natural process that can’t be manipulated. Supply and demand is not an omnipotent, numinous force that can’t be stopped. If consumers organize a boycott (think using less gasoline), notice that prices drop REGARDLESS of the supply. Also, if a producer withholds supply (think OPEC), notice that prices rise REGARDLESS of demand.

Third, and related to the last, not only are economies NOT immutable forces, they are man-made processes. “Man-made” means those processes CAN BE and ARE manipulated by the owners/investors. Enron, Dynergy, WorldCom, HealthSouth, Imclone, Merrill-Lynch, Adelphia, Tyco, the Savings and Loan scandal and its progeny the sub-prime lenders, Cheneybush and their cronies come immediately to mind; these are just the tip of the iceberg of manipulators and exploiters of the economy.

Sound monetary policies? Who gets to determine what policies are sound? Everyone wants sound policies, but we have reason to be suspicious of nebulous terms such as “sound.” How many times have you heard Cheneybush say the economy is “strong and growing stronger?” And how much input does big business have in deciding what "sound" really means?

Sorry, but Ron Paul is not for me.

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» RE: Continued Posted by: stangman89
» RE: Continued Posted by: luckypuck
Nam bitterness
Posted by: compu on Feb 8, 2008 11:14 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
After learning that the gulf of tomking was a fabrication,and the reason of his injuries
plus his round around at the va my brother
in law became a very bitter individual.

He blamed the media for his and all the rest
misfortunes.

before he died,he once said to me,soon or
later this going to come to blows,if I were you
I had get the noice machine first.

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glad to be gone
Posted by: davy on Feb 9, 2008 12:54 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
More cheery news for the ol "country".

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RE: Ron Paul is the answer
Posted by: stangman89 on Feb 9, 2008 9:33 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Quote
"I am in favor of a strong central government, taxation to the extent needed to keep me safe and free, and I don’t believe that the free market is really free."

Kind of like what we have today? Our centralized government is what created this story. FBI deputizing Infragard mercs. Also,

Anyone who trades liberty for security deserves neither liberty nor security.-Benjamin Franklin

Quote
"Limited government is a ploy to reduce the average citizen’s ability to object to the same kind of things that are addressed here. We are beset by big oil, big insurance, big health care, big auto, big businesses of every kind. There also are big foreign governments, big coalitions of small foreign governments, big military and yes, big government itself. How can a limited constitutional government EVER hope to protect its citizens from all that bigness, EVER hope to protect our freedoms? Essentially this is a “divide and conquer” strategy: Without a strong central government, only the state and local governments are our protection of last recourse. What do you think your state could do all by itself to stop the juggernaut of big business? Answer? Not a thing."

Again, what do we have today? A runaway government that is about to turn on us. A wannabe king who says the constitution is just a piece of paper. We need an honest man, a statesman, who will try to turn this situation around. Who are you for? Where do they stand? Change my mind if you can. I could keep on but this is getting tedious. ;)

One last thing. When the powers that be assimilate our nation into the North American Union, none of the opinions stated on this site and others will be worth horse spit. Only Ron Paul states he will strongly oppose this. If you can point out a better candidate I am all ears.

Peace

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» Here is the answer . . . again Posted by: luckypuck
Forget Ron Paul
Posted by: kww355 on Feb 9, 2008 10:56 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Word is, he's "suspending" his race very soon. Anyone that could have made a difference in the race was marginalized and ignored by the MSM. I wasn't a Paul supporter, but those that spoke truth to power were tarred with the "crazy" brush.

What a shame...

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» RE: Where did you hear this lie? Posted by: stangman89
» RE: Where did you hear this lie? Posted by: stangman89
» RE: Where did you hear this lie? Posted by: stangman89
WHO CARES?
Posted by: outrider on Feb 9, 2008 3:55 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The National Security and Homeland Security Presidential Directive signed on May 9, 2007 declares that in the event of a “catastrophic event”, George W. Bush can become our first de jure dictator: "The President shall lead the activities of the Federal Government for ensuring constitutional government."

According to some authorites this directive was completely unnoticed by the media, and given no scrutiny by Congress. It literally gives Bush unprecedented dictatorial power over the government and the ountry, bypassing the US Congress and obliterating the separation of powers. The directive also placed the Secretary of Homeland Security in charge of domestic “security”

Why are our Congressional Representative and Senators and the President elect, whoever that might be, avoiding any mention of this possibility and what if anything they have done or will do to prevent is from happening? Ask them.

The last I heard the Constitution still empowered Congress to impeach the President and the Vice President. Even if eiher declared that impeachment was a "catastrophic event" the military might, I say "might" remember they took an oath to preserve, defend and protect the Constitution.
.

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WHAT IFs
Posted by: outrider on Feb 9, 2008 5:02 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Since there are those who have successfully pecked away at the Constitution because those who took and oath to defend it fell asleep on at their posts and since there are those who will continue to destroy the Constitution given the opportunity, it may be time for some meaningful amendments to the Constitution. What if:

1. the People could initiate impeachment proceedings without the necessity of getting their non-representative Representatives to do so:

2. the People elected the Vice President as well as the President;

3. the President could not assume the roll of Commander in Chief absent the consent of Congress.

4. the President did not have the power to grant immunity or pardons without the consent of Congress?


5. If a President declared martial law, his order would expire automatically after 30 days unless Congress approved it before its expiration date.

6. members of Congress lost their pensions and medical/hospital coverage if they were convicted of a felony involving in any way their Congressional duties as reflected in their oath of office and described in the Constitution?

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» RE: WHAT IFs Posted by: Bec59
» RE: WHAT IFs Posted by: luckypuck
Thanks for the book tip
Posted by: dogman44 on Feb 9, 2008 6:31 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Thanks for the book tip. The only reason people
aren't being put in prison or killed is because
none of them are affecting any real change in the way things are. I guarantee, if you are a
successful organizer for political change or reform, you can measure your success by how much smoke the system brings down on your ass.
Up to and including assassination

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The above story rings true
Posted by: PaulK on Feb 9, 2008 7:52 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
My father kind of went crazy after a bitter divorce that he caused. He was dangerous to visit, with a house full of a platoon's worth of guns for the coming race war. It's hard to use more than one gun at a time.

He tried to teach me Fascist dogma: an economic theory that everything of value comes originally from the earth, and that people add value to these products. I have no idea how accepting somebody's shaky economic theory guarantees an economic collapse and a race war fomented solely by black people, but that's one of the mysteries of economic dogma. The term "weird cult" comes to mind.

That was 20 years ago. My father got older and mostly stopped worrying about the forecasted cataclysm that never came. He goes fishing now.

So yes, the nuts are out there, and some of them expect the state of emergency to be imposed tomorrow, and they want official American Government private army cards to carry, just the sort of thing Elvis wanted from Nixon.

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gladia
Posted by: Gladia on Feb 10, 2008 3:33 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We are not being run by a Govt rather a bunch of opportunists/crooks of the American people. Many are not satisfied at all with the 911 final report or even the 2000 election however it seems it's dangerous to say anything over the phone/Internet. Watch Democracy Now! for the real news and I even heard on Washington Journal by a caller that our Troops were being held hostage over there-THEY WANT TO END THE KILLING. Glad I know the Lord this is starting to sound like the beginning of the end(or beginning of a new world).

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New Rules of the Game
Posted by: ALANHESTER on Feb 10, 2008 6:08 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Since Blackwater and Infraguard are allowed to kill with impunity, the average citizen should adopt new measures for their own protection.

1. Arm yourself.
Anyone has the right to kill you for any reason (Katrina was very insturctive on this. Similarly you have the right to kill anyone, including terrorists posing as law officials. I would recommend shooting anyone who points a gun, regardless of their status.

2. Do not rely on the authorities to help you. Since Bush has been in office, the "rescue" authorities have been pathetic in each case, and the police and have been overzealous, and inaccurate. Do not trust them or even rely on them. They have proven to be a huge mistake.

3. For all there braggadocio, corporations hve yet to prove they they are more competent than the government. Whes is the class-action against ILM? I would recommend that the average citizen have as little to do with corporations as possible.

There is no country to defend anymore: that "country" is out to get you. Make sure that you are prepared!

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bogi666
Posted by: bogi on Feb 10, 2008 10:33 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is the intended function of the DHS, for the purpose of stifling domestic opposition to the plan for implementing a soviet-fascist type government for the USA. With these Stalinist tactics of the Infragard it was only a matter of time until it morphed into being a Stalinist-Nazi type government. It not a question of "if" it's "when" and when is now. With taxpayer funded private political Party armies and internment camps sites already selected and with Blackwater and its ilk the groundwork for the National Security and Surveillance State infrastructure is progressing as intended. The American taxpayers are funding their own subjugation without a whimper, just like the sheep we've been conditioned to be. A society of narcissistic-consumerist-gluttons.

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I have a question on underground bases and foreign troops
Posted by: Susan Kipping on Feb 10, 2008 12:39 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think our country is being attacked from within. There are dozens of mercenaries like Blackwater in this country (Corporate Warriors: The Rise of the Privatized Military Industry, by P. W. Singer is a good book.)

I have noticed that in the '90's Clinton brought thousands of foreign troops to train on our soil (Germans at Holloman Air force Base,ect...) under the guise of NATO and the UN. There is also talk of hundreds of underground bases, mostly in the US. I think that when they come to take us out they will use foreign troops. Does anyone have any info on this idea?

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Refuted by FBI Agent as Untrue
Posted by: Jibbguy on Feb 10, 2008 7:57 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have a comment for the author:

Today i was enraged by FBI's use of private security to spy on us as mentioned in this article, and posted the link on another forum i frequent. On this forum, we have an actual FBI agent as a member.

He said, that the claim that the Infragard have any law enforcement rights, especially shoot-to-kill, is ridiculous and untrue. In fact he described infragard in a way that made me think of junior g-men having a jamboree at their local meetings lol.

So to mollify him (and to prove that we are not a bunch of conspiracy theory nut cases), I am asking the Author to please confirm this with his source; and get back to me; with further proof if available, or a correction if need-be. In fact, this FBI agent is willing to get in contact with you himself for an interview if you are interested (you can contact me back at jibbguy1@comcast.net).

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You folks will believe ANYTHING
Posted by: GMark on Feb 11, 2008 8:15 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You folks are willing to believe anything if it makes Bush seem worse.

And they let you people vote???

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I've been trying to tell you this for 6 months...
Posted by: buddyedgewood on Feb 11, 2008 9:07 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...but anyone who replies calls me a tin foil hat wearing fool. Others have been trying to warn you for years before me, but again, they are tin foil hat wearing fools too.

Plans are just about ready for the next phase. When the next staged ‘9/11’ type event happens within the next 300 days or so, Martial Law will be imposed immediately. Immediate and indefinite suspension of the Constitution (after all, it’s just a goddamn piece of paper) will go into effect. Bush will blame terrorists trained in Iran and within 3 months we will have a full-blown war with Iran on our hands. Believe it or not, but 70 to 80% of you will accept this and go along with Bush, because you have been brainwashed by Faux News, CNN, NPR and others to believe the government has their best interests in mind.

Do not count on Hillary or Obama. They are from the same tool box of the power elite as the Bushs and McCains. Don’t believe me? Just do a simple Google for “Hillary CFR” or “Obama CFR”. Here’s a good link: http://www.nowpublic.com/obama-cfr.

I use the CFR as just one example of a power elite organization that is shaping our futures, there are numerous more – all with direct connections to the largest banks and corporations of the world.

It’s too bad that enough of the population didn’t wake up in time to change the course of history. I would have gladly joined in. But I'm not going to be a martyr for people who are too timid, blind and/or ignorant to see what's really going on here.

I just feel safe in knowing that I'm probably pretty safe, being that I am a white, straight, Christian male. I'll line up like a good little boy and get my RFID chip in my arm.

Good thing the writers strike is coming to an end. It’s time for them to go into overdrive and write some real brainwashing or brain numbing material. Now go back to your American Idol and PlayStations and good luck.

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Shot to kill?
Posted by: steveselverston on Feb 11, 2008 4:54 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This sounds rather disturbing, but certainly not surprising.

Steven Selverston

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I GOT NEWS FOR YOU ALL...
Posted by: Quannah on Feb 11, 2008 10:14 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
OVER 350 OF THE FORTUNE 500 COMPANIES IN THIS COUNTRY HAVE BEEN CO-OPTED AND HAVE JOINED THIS ORGANIZATION!

That is staggering!

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» Hey GMark... Posted by: Quannah
» RE: Hey GMark... Posted by: GMark
Shoot to Kill
Posted by: steveselverston on Feb 14, 2008 4:57 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Gulp. Shoot to kill? Can't they just use paintball guns? Believe me I'll surrender if you attack me with a paintball gun. Could poke an eye out!

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