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Huckabee's Biblical Madness: Dispatches From the War on Stupidity

By , AlterNet. Posted January 30, 2008.


Fog Facts: Huckabee has radical proposals to change the Constitution based upon his factually incorrect statements on what the Bible says.

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Mike Huckabee has made a set of controversial statements about the Constitution (amendable), and the Word of God (not-amendable).


It aroused a fair amount of controversy. Which was good. But all of it missed the real point. The real point, or what should be the real point, is that almost every phrase in his statements was factually untrue.


Whether you're a person of faith or a secularist, or trying to balance the two, the discussion should be based on reality, not fantasies or myth-making. Furthermore, failure to confront the falsehoods helps perpetuate our life in a world of nonsense.


Here's what he said.


I have opponents in this race who do not want to change the Constitution. But I believe it's a lot easier to change the Constitution than it would be to change the word of the living God. And that's what we need to do, to amend the Constitution so it's in God's standards rather than try to change God's standards so it lines up with some contemporary view of how we treat each other and how we treat the family.
He later expanded on that in an interview with CNN's Wolf Blitzer.

Huckabee: Well, what I'm simply saying, we've changed the Constitution 27 times in 221 years. But the Ten Commandments are still the Ten Commandments. We haven't added or subtracted any of them, and that's my point, is that the Constitution was created with the understanding that it could be changed, we could make changes. ...


Blitzer: But the criticism is you, in effect, would want to amend the Constitution based on the Bible. Is that right?


Huckabee: Well, it's really based on the idea that we've always had a historical understanding that life is precious. We go all the way back to the Declaration of Independence, when the founders made it very clear that all of us are equal. And equality wasn't based on the point of our viability. It wasn't based on our net worth, our personal assets, or ancestry. At the heart of the pro-life movement is the idea of intrinsic worth in value.


Marriage has only meant one thing in all of our historical settings. It's only meant one man/one woman. When someone wants to change that, what we're looking for is an amendment to say let's affirm, not change the definition of marriage. Let's affirm the definition we have, because some states are trying to change it, creating a huge mess for whether or not another state would have to recognize what one state did. And, in fact, why I think we need the constitutional amendment.
In actuality, it's far harder to amend the Constitution than the Word of God. Amending the Constitution is a difficult and arduous process. Amending the Word of God is quite easy. Any preacher (like Mr. Huckabee), a Pope, a self proclaimed new prophet, even a mere pundit, can come along and say, "This is actually the word of God! Not that old stuff you used to believe!"


Indeed, it happens in the Bible itself, over and over again. It's a big problem for the Western monotheistic tradition. Catholics solved it by not having ordinary people read the Bible for themselves (one of the primary issues of the Protestant Reformation) and having a hierarchy of priests, led by a Pope, to do the reading and then telling people what it means.


Protestants have tried to solve it by developing a whole school of theology called Dispensationalism. It is that God has "dispensed" his wisdom in constantly changing chunks as mankind was prepared to understand them, and it's our collective fault that He didn't set it out clearly the first time.


Islam took the view that the Jews and Christians had corrupted the texts and so God sent Gabriel to Mohammed with a final set of revisions. Joseph Smith was visited by God and Jesus Christ, who told him more or less the same thing (except the bit about Mohammed). Then the Angel Moroni told him where some golden tablets with a different set of revisions written by a guy named Mormon were buried. Smith dug them up. They were in "reformed Egyptian." He translated them, then gave them back to Angel Moroni.


Huckabee says " the Ten Commandments are still the Ten Commandments." Let us leave aside the facts that there are three different versions of the Ten Commandments in the Old Testament and the only one so labeled bears little resemblance to the one usually referred to by that name, and that Protestants, Jews, and Catholics each use a slightly different set of even that one.


The reality is that virtually all contemporary Christian and Jewish groups have amended them. And that any group that tried to enforce them, in the manner called for in the Bible, would be subject to arrest.


The Second Commandment begins: "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth ...:"


This clearly forbids all paintings and statues of Jesus (let alone of anything else). It is worth noting that the Catholics simply removed this Commandment from the list and split up the last one into two parts so that they still had ten. It is only taken seriously in Islam, which is why Islamic art contains only designs and calligraphy and why the Taliban (quite correctly, by Biblical injunction) destroyed the giant statues of the Buddha.


But for the most part, this has been simply, and quietly amended. By ignoring it.


The Bible calls for the death penalty for violations of the 4th (keeping the Sabbath), the 5th (honoring your Mother & Father, or more precisely for cursing them), and the 7th (committing adultery.) The Bible adds that "everyone who divorces his wife, except for the cause of fornication, makes her an adulteress, and anyone who marries a divorced woman commits adultery."


Obviously, enforcing those penalties would end Christianity as a cultural force in America, as there would be so few of them left. The Tenth Commandment, the one about "coveting," criminalizes thought. Any attempt to enforce it (aside from violating the fundamentals of American law), would remove all the Christians and Jews who were left after the executions required by enforcement of #4, #5, and #7, except for those in a vegetative state.


The Bible is amended far more often, far more casually, with far less debate, than amending the Constitution.


Huckabee's goal is two amendments to the Constitution. One would ban abortion. There is nothing in the Bible that directly forbids abortion. Not a word. Not a jot. So he does a shuffle and slide and he says:

Well, it's really based on the idea that we've always had a historical understanding that life is precious.


We go all the way back to the Declaration of Independence, when the founders made it very clear that all of us are equal. And equality wasn't based on the point of our viability. It wasn't based on our net worth, our personal assets, or ancestry. At the heart of the pro-life movement is the idea of intrinsic worth in value.
In fact, voting was restricted to white males, and normally, only those white males with a certain amount of personal assets. The historical truth is exactly the opposite of what Huckabee claims.


The second would define marriage as "a union between one man and one woman." Nothing in the Bible says that. Based on the examples found in the Bible the rule would more accurately be described as "Marriage is a union between one man and as many women as he can get in the prevailing social climate."


This is not meant as an attack on Mr. Huckabee. Compared to the crowd he's running against, and within the limits of Republican ideology, many of his foreign and domestic policy positions are sane and humane.


The point is that in our public debates the Right Wing postulates certain myths, the mainstream media repeats them, or nods along as if they're not full of obvious untruths, and while the Left may howl in outrage, fails to point out the factual errors and then drive them home. Truly stupid policies can only stand on a foundation of falsehoods.

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See more stories tagged with: christianity, bible, mike huckabee

Larry Beinhart is the author of "Wag the Dog," "The Librarian," and "Fog Facts: Searching for Truth in the Land of Spin." All available at nationbooks.org.

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View:
the Lord spoke to Huckabee
Posted by: Lector on Jan 30, 2008 12:51 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
“ Amending the Word of God is quite easy…Catholics solved it by not having ordinary people read the Bible for themselves…”

For the Protestants, dispensationalism was just another clever excuse for telling people what the Bible meant, so it began all over again. Now any two-bit huckster could step in and tell you that the Lord spoke with him last night. Enter the next huckster, Huckabee who’s going to tell us ignorant folks the Lord wants us to change the Constitution. Why doesn’t he just say it, that the Ten Commandments = US Constitution. Cannot help but continue the mantra that organized religion poisons everything. What an amazing country, how a man like Huckabee, affiliated with a cult church like the Westboro Baptist Church receives legitimacy from a major “non-biased” network like CNN.

Pointless

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Leave Biblical Interpretation to others
Posted by: Jbuuty on Jan 30, 2008 1:53 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
AlterNet does a good job at looking at the current political and social issues of the day. It does a much poorer job of interpreting scriptures. Prejudice is not an aid in understanding, and the article doesn't promote any sort of understanding. Huckabee's proposals are stupid and bad policy for a democratic society. Criticize his statements on those grounds, not on prejudice.

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» RE: "Universal Truths" Posted by: Xynyx
» RE: "Universal Truths" Posted by: ohb0b
» RE: Prejudice or Postjudice? Posted by: factbased
Ten Commandments are still the Ten Commandments.
Posted by: bitsfick on Jan 30, 2008 3:25 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I will type this very slowly, so you good Christians who have never read the bible, will understand, there is no such thing as the ten commandments. Any one who is fool enough to govern their life by a 2000 year old book written by a bunch of semiliterate men who ate locusts should not be allowed to reproduce.

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» RE: Commandments Posted by: Xynyx
» Semi-literate? Posted by: Chickensh*tEagle
» Illiterate, hell. Posted by: Chickensh*tEagle
» RE: Illiterate, hell. Posted by: jareilly
» RE: Illiterate, hell. Posted by: Chickensh*tEagle
» RE: Illiterate, hell. Posted by: bitsfick
Jefferson vs. Hucksterbee
Posted by: reval on Jan 30, 2008 3:29 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Thomas Jefferson, 1802: I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibit the free exercise thereof, thus building a wall of separation between church and state. History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own.

Mike Huckabee, 2008: I believe it's a lot easier to change the Constitution than it would be to change the word of the living God. And that's what we need to do is amend the Constitution so it's in God's standards rather than trying to change God's standards so it lines up with some contemporary view of how we treat each other and how we treat the family.

And thus we are left to understand precisely what religion has finally wrought (or should I say, rot) the United States in 206 years.
~Rev. El
Pastor, WVCSR

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» good to see you here, pastor! Posted by: KaptainSpiffy
The hangman
Posted by: davy on Jan 30, 2008 4:16 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I like the story I read about his son and a dog. Funny but none of my (non religious) friends kids never felt compelled to do this.

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» RE: The hangman Posted by: Bibsi
Check your Catholic Facts
Posted by: JohnCWalker on Jan 30, 2008 4:20 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You criticized Huckabee on facts and then you go about propagating a myth about Catholics use of the Bible. To the contrary, not only does the Catholic Catechism teach that "access to Sacred Scripture ought to be open wide to the Christian faithful" (CCC 131), but that the Catholic Church "forcefully and specifically exhorts all the Christian faithful. . . to learn the surpassing knowledge of Jesus Christ, by frequent reading of the divine Scriptures" (CCC 133). Furthermore, there is even a indulgence for reading Sacred Scripture! While Sola Scriptura was one of the Protestant doctrines that emerged form the Reformation, the lack of access of the Bible to the laity was never a cause. Rather, the catalyst for the Reformation was certain priests selling indulgences and the abuse of power by others. The Catholic Church at the Council of Trent agreed with the Protestant reformers on these issues and condemned the sale of indulgences. To address the abuse, the Council would lead to the creation of a formal catechism and the establishment of seminaries in which to properly train the priests. Additionally, the Church would go on to modify Canon Law prohibiting priests from having secular positions of power.
Perhaps before you start attacking someone else's facts you should check your own!

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» Catholic Facts?? Posted by: zipper696
» RE: Catholic Facts?? Posted by: JohnCWalker
» When? Posted by: chaoslegs
» RE: Catholic Facts?? Posted by: Bibsi
Again, we forget the reason there is a US
Posted by: cherylholmes on Jan 30, 2008 4:25 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think these jokers forgot the reasons this country was formed in the first place. They fled England and landed here to get away from the very thing they are now forcing upon us.

Maybe his good buddy Kenneth Copeland can be his VP once the IRS vindicates him.

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and... he's losing, so what's your worry?
Posted by: kenhymes on Jan 30, 2008 4:29 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yes, Huckabee represents the last gasp of the far-right fundamentalist wing of the GOP's attempt to wield national political power. And he's losing. A month or so ago, Alternet held him up as proof that their fear-mongering about imminent theocracy was justified. Now his campaign's in the toilet, so what does that mean? Can't have it both ways, people. I'm not sure why the editors here are so convinced that a few prominent knuckleheads are going to turn the most religiously diverse country in history into a narrow protestant theocracy. But they're wrong, it will never happen. It's long past time to be glad that the unholy alliance of the GOP with racist, homophobic pastors has failed, and move on to pressing the positions the left ahs in common with most Americans: economic justice, restraint of corporate greed, environmental protection.

Bad history, misinformed theology, and bad political tactics have weakened the potential impact of this site for the last two years. Isn't it time to give it a rest?

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Uh oh
Posted by: PJT on Jan 30, 2008 4:41 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Looks like Clarence Thomas is going to have to bone up on Aramaic so he can interpret the constitution according to its true meaning, huh? Uncle Clarence: stop surfing around on the evil internet and hit the books!

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» RE: Uh oh Redux Posted by: Turiye
Another new "Concern"
Posted by: Sissy on Jan 30, 2008 5:30 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I just heard on the "morning after" the Florida Primary that "it looks like the vice-presidency is being dangled at the Huckster so that he will stay in the race with McCain". I assume its because the McCain campaign wants Huck to "siphon off the Conservative votes from Romney". From all indications he is going to do it too. Now that's also a gruesome thought. Should McCain win the presidency, he will be if not 72, nearly so. That's a pretty bad age to be taking on this kind of a job and with a Vice-President Huckabee standing in the wings, it gives me almost as many fits as I've had with the Cheney vice-presidency.

Will we ever have any peace?

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Taking Off the Clown White
Posted by: jmmartin on Jan 30, 2008 5:48 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"In actuality, it's far harder to amend the Constitution than the Word of God. Amending the Constitution is a difficult and arduous process. Amending the Word of God is quite easy. Any preacher (like Mr. Huckabee), a Pope, a self proclaimed new prophet, even a mere pundit, can come along and say, 'This is actually the word of God! Not that old stuff you used to believe!'"

I asked an acquaintance the other day what version of the Bible his church used (he's Catholic) and, innocently, not really knowing the answer, suggested, "The King James?" He said, "Oh, no, no...." I don't think he knew the name of the one used -- Douay, New Jerusalem, whatever -- but I mused: "You know, it's difficult to say what the prophets actually meant since the Bible has been subject to so many translations."

Which is true. The language spoken in Reb Yeshua's time was Aramaic. The N.T. was in Greek, then translated into Latin, then into various other languages, including the poetic English of the St. James. Robert Anton Wilson pointed up the absurdity of claiming that THE Bible says this or that, when, in fact, Aramaic was written in long sentences sans punctuation. Wilson said that there was no way of knowing whether a particular scripture said, "God is now here" or "God is nowhere."

In contract law, we know the importance of a single word. Let's say a typist was taking down a contractual provision saying, e.g., "This contract will terminate if Bozo takes off his clown white." But the attorney dictating the provision told his secretary, "This contract will not terminate if Bozo takes off his clown white." The typist simply forgot the word "not."

Now, I don't know about you, but if I wanted to put my faith in a book that has undergone numerous translations since the magic words were first uttered by the grand panjandrums, I should think I'd want to get my head examined.

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» Great observations! Posted by: LeeAnnG
» a few more observations.. Posted by: Drclaw
Which 'Ten' Commandments? People forget there are versions & revisions
Posted by: counterpoint on Jan 30, 2008 5:53 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Thanks Larry, for reminding folks. The supposed clarity and unambiguity of the bibles is a myth, which starts being regurgitated any time we say "THE" bible. It's a bunch of texts that come in myriads of editions (read: stuff omitted, including falsifications, mistranslations).
Check out this text comparing just the three versions of the Decalog:
http://www.positiveatheism.org/crt/whichcom.htm and then read Frank Zindler's take http://www.atheists.org/church/hangemall.html

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"...word of the living God."
Posted by: jmooney on Jan 30, 2008 6:24 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Herein lies the problem. In all likelihood, there is no "living God." There may have been a first cause to the universe, but it is highly unlikely that such a force is of the nature that would "reveal" crucial thoughts through ancient, backward humans in a book that is not even internally consistent, as the writer points out here.

The bible is a slew of books cobbled together thousands of years ago by people struggling to make sense of the world around them in the absence of solid scientific and philosophical inquiry. Some of what they say may be useful to people living today, but much of it is just a bunch of useless drivel.

A great thing about our Constitution is that there were folks who wanted it to say that all power comes from god, specifically, the Christian God. But the founders, for all their many faults, realized this was pure folly. All power is supposed to come from "We the people," although that's certainly not necessarily the case in modern-day (or even revolutionary) America.

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To what do Presidents swear?
Posted by: keefus55 on Jan 30, 2008 6:26 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
President's put their hand on the Bible and swear to uphold the Constitution. They DO NOT put their hands on the Constitution and swear to uphold the Bible.

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'Wholey Books, Holey Books, Holy Books'
Posted by: Cybershaman on Jan 30, 2008 6:40 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Scripture is a TOOL, to be read and contemplated until revelation comes. Having someone else do all the work for you defeats the purpose. Each person comes to scripture with their own unique series of life experiences, which determines the way in which they will interpret what they read, so we all will have subjective revelations pertinent only to ourselves.
Too many people use scripture as a crutch, to do all their thinking for them, or worse as a weapon to beat others over the head with. There have always been people willing to take advantage of others laziness to extort money out of them. Most religions today are just indoctrination programs intended to create some power structure people can identify with and cling to. The eventual enlightenment of the individual has no place in such a system and actually is detrimental to the power structure.
Robert Anton Wilson is correct when he says that the Roman Empire never really collapsed, it just morphed into the 'Holy Roman Empire' to take political advantage of a popular religious movement.
Those who see scripture as the 'infallible word of God' and then try to impose their interpretation on to others as 'the truth' are only trying to validate their own lack of understanding by making others think as they do. Ironically, "The Way" is not the way.

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The Word of God!
Posted by: garry minor on Jan 30, 2008 6:41 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I wonder if Mr. Huckabee will feel the same way regarding the Good Book once he discovers that in the original Hebrew text of the Old Testament, Exodus 30:23, that God himself instructed Moses to make a Holy Oil with 250 shekels of "kaneh bosm/cannabis" to anoint all of his Kings, Priests, and Prophets, for all generations to come, including that of Jesus and even today as the title Christ/Messiah means literally covered in oil, "Anointed?"
I wonder how will he explain that cannabis is also listed as an incense tree in Song of Songs 4:14? Or how he will he explain that God actually asks for cannabis in Isaiah 43:24, and that it's mentioned again in Jeremiah 6:20 and Ezekiel 27:19? How will he explain the 141 references to anointing or 145 for burning incense in the Good Book?
And why if he is such a believer in Christ does he not teach the fact that the early Christians shared their wealth and would be considered communists by today's standards?
I myself have found it quite amazing the response you get from people that once said if it's between Genesis and Revelation it's true. Suddenly given the "Word of God" they will spit and sputter and reinvent God right before your eyes. Suddenly they will instinctually just know better than God! It's amazing!
People will actually believe a 70 year old lie in favor of God's eternal Word.
Cannabis is proven to destroy tumors, prevent Alzheimers, and promote the growth of brain cells. In Canada and Europe they are using it to treat Alzheimers, autism, MS, epilepsy, nausea, migraine, arthritis, depression, chronic pain, diabetes, asthma, emphysema, cystic fibrosis, Herpes, Parkinsons, Huntingtons, Tourettes, Crohns disease, and more. Pretty impressive for something so evil and illegal huh?
All mammals, birds, fish, and reptiles have cannabinoid receptors throughout their body that work independent of those that govern the heart and lungs. This is why cannabis cannot kill you! In the entire history of man not one death can be attributed to cannabis. Is this just a coincidence?
The cannabis seed just happens to be the single most nutritious thing you can eat. Our Government stockpiles it as a strategic food source under Executive order #12919 yet deny it to us today! Do we have a hunger problem in the world today?
Anything made from oil, coal, timber, or cotton can be made ecologically friendly with hemp. All paper, plastics, packaging, textiles, fuels, lubricants, paints, varnishes, plywood, structural components, many cosmetics, health foods, and more can be made with it. Over 25,000 known products. It will grow without most fertilizers, herbicides, or pesticides to foul the soil and water, in climates and conditions other crops wont grow. It is by far the Earths best source for biomass. But you will never hear it! Canvas is Dutch for cannabis. Are we having energy and pollution problems?
Currently the United States is the only major Nation that does not grow industrial hemp. China now grows 40% of the worlds crop and are developing new technology for fuels, textiles, plastics, paper, and more that will keep the United States at an economic and strategic deficit for years. This information also is being censored by our media. We are being left behind as a Nation and we don't even know it!

Having read the Bible many times and tons of other Scripture I will assure you that they are full of people that also thought they knew better than God. Their worship was nothing but rules taught by men! They were wrong then and they will be proven wrong again!
The Word of God is eternal, mans 70 year old ignorant, racist, moronic, antichristian law is only temporary!
The Book say's so!

Food, fuel, shelter, medicine, pleasure spirituality, unity!
The Tree of Life, Kaneh bosm, Cannabis, Hemp!

Garry Minor
Columbus Cannabis Ministry
Columbus Indiana

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» "God's" First Commandment... Posted by: P.E.A.C.E.
Leslie Caplan
Posted by: lesliecaplan on Jan 30, 2008 7:02 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Both Judaism and Islam forbid and observe the prohibition against 'graven images.'

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» RE: 'graven images.' Posted by: vasumurti
» RE: Leslie Caplan Posted by: LeeAnnG
Bullsh!t
Posted by: edraven on Jan 30, 2008 7:06 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Interesting to read how everyone defends their version of the Bible.

You're all delusional. Read it again, it is stupid - - makes no sense.

Sorry, I'm just tired of trying to be nice to crazies.

Ed Graham

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» Amen! I mean, right on! Posted by: thekidde
» RE: Bullsh!t Posted by: Realliberal87
» RE: Bullsh!t Posted by: omatravel
» defense Posted by: openhouse
» RE: defense Posted by: Astroboy
» RE: Bullsh!t Posted by: Gungneir
» To: Gungneir Posted by: edraven
» RE: To: Gungneir Posted by: Gungneir
this is why
Posted by: hemnebob on Jan 30, 2008 7:24 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
huckabee needed to be in the running.
to show people that his mentality, this country's mentality with regards to separation of church and state, has become way too blurry and needs to re-clarified so they understand what it truly means.

the fact that this man, or crazy evangelist, wants to mirror the constitution with the bible, warrants him to be humiliated and shown to the door.

i bargain that he will leave the race and become another jerry falwell/pat robertson/oral roberts/jerry swaggert, etc and shame himself by registering at target (once again) for gifts to furnish his new mansion that all his foolish follwers will buy...
oh yeah, mike...
don't forget to register as a wedding recipient again!!!
http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2007/11/13/huckabee/

and i also wish that the IRS keep him in their sights as he is truly a taker and not a giver...
crash and burn mikeeeeeee

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» RE: this is why Posted by: jmooney
» RE: this is why Posted by: Xynyx
Mister
Posted by: Spock on Jan 30, 2008 7:28 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm reminded of a quote from the movie Second Hand Lions: “Sometimes the things that may or may not be true are the things a man needs to believe in the most. That people are basically good; that honor, courage, and virtue mean everything; that power and money, money and power mean nothing; that good always triumphs over evil; and I want you to remember this, that love… true love never dies. You remember that, boy. You remember that. Doesn’t matter if it’s true or not. You see, a man should believe in those things, because those are the things worth believing in.“ I'm a fighter (forty years of competition in Olympic Judo, and a retired soldier), and I know that when the facts are uncertain, believing is often more powerful than knowing. I've also learned that people who ridicule the faith of others are betraying a delilitating weakness, one that seldom results in success. Ridicule of faith invariably betrays youth and lack of experience, too. I'd always rather have a man of faith covering my back than one of science.

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Reality is incompatible with that kind of faith.
Posted by: Elmo409 on Jan 30, 2008 8:04 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Whether you're a person of faith or a secularist, or trying to balance the two, the discussion should be based on reality, not fantasies or myth-making.

The problem is that those like the Huckster base their entire world view on fantasy and myth.

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Larry might think about engaging his brain before writing.
Posted by: leland61 on Jan 30, 2008 8:14 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Unfortunately for all of us Larry Beinhart knows less about the Bible than most people who author Alternet articles. (People might consider the old adage that when suspected of being a fool it is better to keep one’s mouth closed rather than to speak, or write, and remove all doubt.)

“Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them:…”
This is what the Bible says and It is clearly talking about idols.

Else liberals like Beinhart would have to concede that the interpretation of the first Amendment to the US Constitution actually supports the willy nilly purchase, carrying and use of firearms by anyone – lunatic or sane person. Because this is what it says if you want to truncate it like Larry did the Biblical verse: Amendment II “…the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.”

To imagine that the commandment about idols applies to Jesus – well that is of course what fundies do, but we’re going from Hebrew Scripture to Christian views without taking a breath or giving the brain a chance to actually function.

“The point is that in our public debates the Left Wing postulates certain myths, the mainstream media repeats them, or nods along as if they're not full of obvious untruths, and while the Right may howl in outrage, fails to point out the factual errors and then drive them home. Truly stupid policies can only stand on a foundation of falsehoods.”

Having made the appropriate changes to Larry’s closing ex cathedra statement, I agree.

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The Bible is open to interpretation by all
Posted by: jeffrey7 on Jan 30, 2008 9:15 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Organized religion is constantly shoving the dead Man on a Stick in our faces,some going so far as to have their followers recite 'God we're unworthy'. How utterly foolhardy. The 'Interpriters' would have you believe Jesus was 'God as Man' a Supreme being we could never aspire to. At best we could live a life that might not get us sent to Hell,if we pass Judgement Day. Well crack that book open and have another read of it.
Jesus told us we 'Could do the same as he and Greater'. If you're supreme you damn sure are'nt going to tell folks they can be greater than you. He also told us we have eternal life.
Then he had to 'Walk his Talk'. He had to prove that it did'nt matter how awfully we are beaten,clubbed or killed,we never know death. Remember,he showed us that.
So instead of living in the self-assured peace of knowing the Truth, we fall for the spoon fed misinterpretation of Dead Guy on a Stick unworthyness.
So Mike took liberties with the Bible.Everyone has ever since it was written.
Thank God there is enough of the Truth left in it that 'Those with eyes will see and those with ears shall hear'. Don't worry God Loves the mistaken too.
Draft Jeffrey7 for Prez
www.youtube.com/RevJeffrey7

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abortion, the Bible, and the pro-life movement
Posted by: vasumurti on Jan 30, 2008 10:00 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The pro-life movement desperately needs religious diversity. Pro-lifers should welcome people of other faiths and those of no faith. Not everyone in the United States is a Christian. This country wasn’t founded by Christians; many of America’s founding fathers were Deists. There are other faiths, besides the Abrahamic faiths. There are other holy books out there besides the Bible or the Koran, which also claim to be the word of God.

I also have a problem with pro-life Christians who adhere to a double-standard: i.e., they insist their stand against abortion be applied to everyone, including others who may not share their faith, but then they embrace moral relativism when it suits them, e.g., “Your religion says it’s wrong to kill animals for food, clothing or sport; mine doesn’t.”

There ARE Christian vegetarians and vegans, of whom I have the deepest respect. I don't take it seriously when meat-eaters say, "The Bible permits us to eat meat," because the Bible was also used to uphold human slavery. The Bible can even be used to justify abortion:

Genesis 38:24 says Tamar’s pregnancy was discovered three months after conception, presumably because it was visible at the time. This was positive proof that she was sexually active. Because she was a widow, without a husband, she was assumed to be a prostitute. Her father-in-law, Judah, ordered that she be burned alive for her crime.

If Tamar’s fetuses had been considered to have any value whatsoever, her execution would have been delayed until after their birth. There was no condemnation on Judah for deciding to take this action.

Similarly, Exodus 21:22-24 says if two men are fighting and one injures a pregnant woman and the fetus is killed, he shall repay her according to the degree of injury inflicted upon her, and not the fetus.

Author Brian McKinley, a born-again Christian, sums up the passage as: “Thus we can see that if the baby is lost, it does not require a death sentence—it is not considered murder. But if the woman is lost, it is considered murder and is punished by death.”

Can you imagine 18th century Christians telling abolitionists, "We don't need to free our slaves...That’s 'good works’…we don’t have to ‘work’ for our salvation...All we have to do is accept Jesus...Paul said Jesus told him three times, ‘my grace is sufficient for thee,’ ...we don't need to free our slaves..." ?

Or how about an 18th century Christian preacher who tells his followers, “You don’t have to free your slaves…All you have to do is accept Jesus.” ?

None of the religious arguments pro-life Christians make to justify the status quo with regards to animals would make any sense if this were 300 years ago, and we were discussing the abolition of human slavery instead of animal slavery, and I think the same holds true with regards to abortion. I'm surprised pro-choice Christians haven't tried to deny rights to the unborn using the same religious arguments pro-life Christians use to deny rights to animals!

We really live in a secular society. Secular arguments are religiously neutral and are thus applicable to everyone, including atheists and agnostics. The pro-life movement ALREADY HAS the support of organized religion. Instead of preaching to the choir, i.e., wasting time with religion, pro-lifers should focus on prenatal development, genetics, DNA, RNA, etc. to make their case to mainstream secular society.

Again, the pro-life movement desperately needs religious diversity. It's already stereotyped as being predominantly Christian (Catholic, fundamentalist, born again, etc.) and will need to become completely secular as it attempts to convince the courts, legislatures, universities, philosophers, ethicists, etc. that human zygotes and embryos should be regarded as legal persons.

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Lucky for us
Posted by: willymack on Jan 30, 2008 10:49 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That there aren't enough idiots to vote huckadingleberry into power. He'll self- destruct just as so many of his kind have in the past. The more he falls behind in the polls and primaries, the more he reveals his bizarre nature and the more he scares people. Just look at what's happened in the last seven years at the hands of homicidal maniacs with jesus on their side. More of the same? I think not.

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Mike Huckabee is nothing more than a phoney cultural "populist"
Posted by: maxpayne on Jan 30, 2008 11:05 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
His push for a National Sales Tax and his disregard for freedom, civil liberties, or even the Constitution itself is probably what's killing his candidacy. He'll be dropping out soon just like Ghouliani.

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911 inside job
Posted by: 911truth on Jan 30, 2008 1:26 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
religion does not belong in politics in any fashion of any kind whatsoever. Go to my website which is www.911insidejob.net and you will find a link when you scroll down the right-hand column of the homepage entitled " Zeitgeist Movie". This movie is very well worth watching since it ties in the myth of religion, government control of the people, the Federal Reserve Bank and 9/11.

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» RE: 911 inside job Posted by: Gungneir
RELIGION HAS NO PLACE IN GOVERNMENT
Posted by: VZEQICVA on Jan 30, 2008 2:00 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
These people are allowed to go on and on about what they believe. I don't care. That's not what I vote about. Huckabee is just plain crazy and should never have been taken seriously. That's the scary part of it. We have to get on with the business of running the country and stop arguing about the bible and the constitution as though they were interchangeable. They're not. Thanks, ANNA

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Why are Americans so Hypnotized?
Posted by: yantacaw on Jan 30, 2008 4:18 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Huckabee's and other US politicians' insistence on magical religious thinking, to solve human political problems, is unfortunately shared by all-too-many average Americans.

Such thinking is a cultivated sickeness of the mind and emotions, spread like a disease by commonly-provable liars whose age-old lies are in turn enabled by failing cultures, like ours, whose corrupt power fonts work to legitimate unthinking acceptance of Authority (religious and/or political) among the citizens, for various, and always nefarious, anti-democratic end goals.

By contrast: If a political candidate in most-any Western European country, today, spouts such Huckabeean religious gibberish, average voters there immediately understand it for what it really is: Manipulative claptrap, propagated by emotionally immature individuals who remain unable to even cognitively toilet-train their own, personal existential fears, let alone be able to wisely hold official power over other people and the workings of a democratic government.

In Europe, a Huckabee-type candidate doesn't even rise high enough (politically) to ever get a chance to be laughed off the national stage. He/She is, in most cases, democratically eliminated by a far less hypnotized electorate at the local level, for obvious delusional thinking.

Granted: It's not silly or delusional for any human to speculatively posit a metaphysical First Cause, or to seek some kind of Higher-grounding for human moral law.

But it will always be a bogus manoeuver (until a Doctrinal God actually comes down out of the sky), for to any human (especially a political candidate) to claim
religious-cum-political Truths about human matters, while offering no more proof than his/her subjective belief in the Bible or the Koran or in any other font of "Received Knowledge."

It's precisely because much of the Moslem world still, hypnotically, reveres the elistist bullshit of "Received Knowledge" from the Koran that most Moslem societies remain civilly primitive and politically elitist.

And, to the extent America's Religious Right intends that the same kind of Received [Christian] Authority should rule human policital cognition here at home, we Americans, too, have need to fight against our own 'Taliban' and their domestic enablers.

No matter that Huckabee is now, arguably, out of the presidential picture: American religious fundamentalism remains a form of destructive mass hypnosis, the cause and cure of which must be the daily concen of all un-hypnotized citizens.

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This comment has been removed from the site due to non-compliance with AlterNet's community policies.
One Nation Under Zod.....
Posted by: maddasein on Jan 30, 2008 7:00 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So I want to support a presidential candidate who has REAL values. He/She must be a true believer in Zod. Who cares about immigration,health care or constitutional rights? The most important issue is taking back this nation in the name of the one true lord, Zod. Only he can lead us into victory over the terrorists (i.e. Superman extremists).

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Fifteen commandments
Posted by: fdgsr on Jan 30, 2008 8:56 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have it on good authority that God gave Moses 15 commandments. It is not clear what the additional five are, but it seems that at least one of them is, "Thou shalt not malign the State of Israel, if and when one is established."

Anyway, the story is that as Moses descended the mountain after being given three plaques by God, each with five commandments, Moses stumbled over a rock and five of commandments were broken on the spot before they could even be delivered to the Children of Israel. When the Children of Israel received the other ten, they proceeded, as children do, to disobey the Father. The rest of the commandments were broken within a week and Moses was pissed off and uttered some choice epithets, then tossed the pieces in the Sinai. He ranted and raved to the former slaves and threatened them until they wound up wondering in the desert for 40 years. It is a mystery that any of the commandments got into print, because it is doubtful that Moses could read the language they were chiseled in.

God told Moses, "I am what I am." At least Muslims understand that and do not make any images of God, or any representation in gold or stone, let alone elevating an illegitimate kid to take over the function of God, from his Heavenly Father. Muhammad paraphrased God's statement to Moses, "I am what I am." further explaining it to mean that "There is no other God except the one and only Allah. Muhammad is not a God, son of God, or a holy ghost, but a Prophet only."

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Superbowl Infinity: Bible Amendment versus Constitution Amendment
Posted by: JayHaden on Jan 31, 2008 12:24 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
With Bible Amenders losing the coin toss, Constitutionalists take the kick and march up the field for an easy score, adding a Commandment: thou shalt not abuse children. Neither team hits the scoreboard again until the fourth quarter when the Biblers even the count by inserting an amendment into the Constitution mandating the punishment of all uncircumcised, unbaptized funny looking people, including citizen children, according to sentencing guidelines found in Leviticus. They quickly add another amendment to the Constitution defining children as any product of a covetous or semi-covetous thought and then convert by requiring continuous MRIs to determine when such thoughts occur. After the game, the Biblers repair to their local churches to savour victory, all by themselves.

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» RE: WOW WHAT STUPIDITY Posted by: maddasein
Great post, Larry
Posted by: funnyguy on Feb 1, 2008 9:40 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's often amazing how little many Christian zealots know about the Bible, yet they want us to believe that every word---no matter how idiotic or contradictory---must be followed.

I recall an interview with George Bush many years ago, when he was pronouncing his religiosity, the interviewer, quite innocently, asked him, "What is your favorite story from the Bible?" The moron couldn't respond, he couldn't remember one fucking lesson from the Bible, yet guys like Bush and Huckabee want to define Christianity for the rest of us AND MAKE US LIVE BY THEIR DEFINITIONS. Of course, the only lesson Bush learned from the Bible was to stop snorting cocaine and stop being a blackout drunk. A good lesson for him, I suppose, but some of us don't need that lesson enshrined in the U.S. Constitution

I look forward to more writing by the author.

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no god!!!!!
Posted by: durruti on Feb 2, 2008 4:42 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
god does not exist.oveeeeeeeeeeeer with this crap.Have Hugo Chavez as president and smart up americanos. Fidel better?

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just vote democrat!
Posted by: thealltheone on Feb 2, 2008 4:51 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
we can argue religion till the cows come home....save the constitution and just vote democrat....Two more seats will come up in the supreme court in the next four years. It is already way out of balance since Bush picked two, one being chief justice. If another neo con is elected we are all in danger!

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Mike Huckabee is a dishonest lier and a killer
Posted by: myersqi on Feb 3, 2008 4:49 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Mike Huckabee has a black heart. He lies to people and destroyed a child's life so many years. His people killed Dr. Han on April 30th, 2006 in Little Rock, AR. How we can believe that he believe god? How we can believe that he is a god?! He just uses god to cheat people and try to get the seat of the president of the United States. Wake up, everybody! He is a devil man, far away from him!

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WOW!!!!
Posted by: willyd1962 on Feb 4, 2008 2:18 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You guys really have an anger problem. Let me see if I got this straight. You Libs who say the Con. is a living document and who have been behind most amnd. now don't want it tampered with!!?? What a bunch of hypcts!! I happen to agree with ole huck. I think it should be changed in the areas he mentioned. But now I am sure I will be removed from this site. Sights like these always remove those who don't agree with the full liberal view. I have already been removed a couple of other times. Not for personal attacks or foul language, or for threats but because I don't always agree with the left wingnut views of this sight. SO MUCH FOR FREE SPEECH which you libs like to scream about unless it's somebody elses!!!

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» RE: WOW!!!! Posted by: jc1234
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