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Seven Steps to a Homeland Security Campus
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In November 2006, the Taser infamously broke into the news on campus when a student at the University of Florida, questioning Senator John Kerry harshly, was dragged off, Tased, and subdued by campus police. His plea, "Don't Tase me, Bro!," is now the stuff of bumper stickers, T-shirts, and cell phone ring tones. Thanks largely to him and the publicity the incident got, the New Oxford Dictionary made "Tase" one of its 2007 words of the year, the Yale Book of Quotations put it at the top of its yearly list of most memorable quotes, and the rest of us got a hint that something new might be happening in America's "ivory towers."
As Michael Gould-Wartofsky indicates below, that incident was just the tip of an enormous homeland-security presence on campus. Gould-Wartofsky's remarkable report -- a piece that the Nation Magazine and Tomdispatch.com are sharing -- offers real news about just how deeply the new homeland security state is settling into every aspect of our world. -- Tom Engelhardt, editor of TomDispatch
Repress U
How to Build a Homeland Security Campus in Seven Steps
By Michael Gould-Wartofsky
Free speech zones. Taser guns. Hidden cameras. Data mining. A new security curriculum. Private security contractors... Welcome to the new homeland security campus
From Harvard to UCLA, the ivory tower is fast becoming the latest watchtower in Fortress America. The terror warriors, having turned their attention to "violent radicalization and homegrown terrorism" -- as it was recently dubbed in a House of Representatives bill of the same name -- have set out to reconquer that traditional hotbed of radicalization, the university.
Building a homeland-security campus and bringing the university to heel is a seven-step mission:
1. Target dissidents: As the warfare state has triggered dissent, the campus has increasingly become a target gallery -- with student protesters in the crosshairs. The government's number one target? Peace and justice organizations.
From 2003 to 2007, an unknown number of them made it into the Pentagon's "Threat and Local Observation Notice" system (TALON), a secretive domestic spying program ostensibly designed to track direct "potential terrorist threats" to the Department of Defense itself. Last year, via Freedom of Information Act requests, the ACLU uncovered at least 186 specific TALON reports on "anti-military protests" in the U.S. -- some listed as "credible threats" -- from student groups at the University of California-Santa Cruz, State University of New York, Georgia State University, and New Mexico State University, among other campuses.
At more than a dozen universities and colleges, police officers now double as full-time FBI agents and, according to the Campus Law Enforcement Journal, serve on many of the nation's 100 Joint Terrorism Task Forces. These dual-purpose officer-agents have knocked on student activists' doors from North Carolina State to the University of Colorado and, in one case, interrogated an Iraqi-born professor at the University of Massachusetts-Amherst about his antiwar views.
FBI agents, or their campus stand-ins, don't have to do all the work themselves. Administrators often do it for them, setting up "free speech zones," which actually constrain speech, and punishing those who step outside them. Last year, protests were typically forced into "free assembly areas" at the University of Central Florida and Clemson University; while students at Hampton and Pace Universities faced expulsion for handing out antiwar flyers, aka "unauthorized materials."
2. Lock and load: Many campus police departments are morphing into heavily armed garrisons, equipped with a wide array of weaponry from Taser stun guns and pepper guns to shotguns and semiautomatic rifles. Lock-and-load policies that began in the 1990s under the rubric of "the war on crime" only escalated with the President's Global War on Terror. Each school shooting -- most recently the massacre at Virginia Tech -- just adds fuel to the armament flames.
Two-thirds of universities now arm their police, according to the Justice Department. Many of the guns being purchased were previously in the province of military units and SWAT teams. For instance, AR-15 rifles (similar to M-16s) are now in the arsenal of the University of Texas campus police. Last April, City University of New York bought dozens of semiautomatic handguns. Now, states like Nevada are even considering plans to allow university staff to pack heat in a "special reserve officer corps."
Most of the force used on campus these days, though, comes in "less lethal" form, such as the rubber bullets and pepper pellets increasingly used to contain student demonstrations. Then there is the ubiquitous Taser, the electroshock weapon recently ruled a "form of torture" by the UN. A Taser was used by UCLA police in November 2006 to deliver shock after shock to an Iranian-American student for failing to produce his ID at the Powell Library. Last September, a University of Florida student was Tased after asking pointed questions of Senator John Kerry at a public forum, his plea of "Don't Tase me, bro" becoming the stuff of pop folklore.
3. Keep an eye (or hundreds of them) focused on campus: Surveillance has become a boom industry nationally -- one that now reaches deep into the heart of the American campus. In fact, universities have witnessed explosive growth in the electronic surveillance of students, faculty, and campus workers. On ever more campuses, closed-circuit security cameras can track people's every move, often from hidden or undisclosed locations, sometimes even into classrooms.
The International Association of Campus Law Enforcement Administrators reports that surveillance cameras have now found their way onto at least half of all colleges, their numbers on any given campus doubling, tripling, and in a few cases, rising tenfold since September 11, 2001. Such cameras have proliferated by the hundreds on private campuses, in particular. The University of Pennsylvania, for instance, has more than 400 watching over it, while Harvard and Brown have about 200 each.
Elsewhere, it can be tricky just to find out where the cameras are and what they're meant to be viewing. The University of Texas, for example, battled student journalists over disclosure and ultimately kept its cameras hidden. Sometimes, though, a camera's purpose seems obvious. Take the case of Hussein Hussein, a professor in the Department of Animal Biotechnology at the University of Nevada, Reno. In January 2005, the widely respected professor found a hidden camera redirected to monitor his office.
4. Mine student records: Student records have, in recent years, been opened up to all manner of data mining for purposes of investigation, recruitment, or just all-purpose tracking. From 2001 to 2006, in an operation code-named "Project Strike Back," the Department of Education teamed up with the FBI to scour the records of the 14 million students who applied for federal financial aid each year. The objective? "To identify potential people of interest," explained an FBI spokesperson cryptically, especially those linked to "potential terrorist activity."
Strike Back was quietly discontinued in June 2006, days after students at Northwestern University blew its cover. But just one month later, the Education Department's Commission on the Future of Higher Education, in a much-criticized preliminary report, recommended the creation of a federal "unit record" database that would track the activities and studies of college students nationwide. The Department's Institute of Education Sciences has developed a prototype for such a national database.
It's not a secret that the Pentagon, for its part, hopes to turn campuses into recruitment centers for its overstretched, overstressed forces. In fact, the Department of Defense (DoD) has built its own database for just this purpose. Known as Joint Advertising Market Research and Studies, this program now tracks 30 million young people, ages 16 to 25. According to a Pentagon spokesperson, the DoD has partnered with private marketing and data mining firms, which, in turn, sell the government reams of information on students and other potential recruits.
5. Track foreign-born students, keep the undocumented out: Under the auspices of Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) has been keeping close tabs on foreign students and their dependents through the Student and Exchange Visitor Information System (SEVIS). As of October 2007, ICE reported that it was actively following 713,000 internationals on campuses, while keeping more than 4.7 million names in its database.
The database aims to amass and record information on foreign students throughout their stay inside the United States. SEVIS requires thick files on the students from the sponsoring schools, constantly updated with all academic, biographical, and employment records -- all of which will be shared with other government agencies. If students fall out of "status" at school -- or if the database thinks they have -- the Compliance Enforcement Unit of ICE goes into action.
ICE has also done its part to keep the homeland security campus purified of those not born in the homeland. The American Immigration Law Foundation estimates that only one in 20 undocumented immigrants who graduate high school goes on to enroll in a college. Many don't go because they cannot afford the tuition, but also because they have good reason to be afraid: ICE has deported a number of those who did make it to college, some before they could graduate.
6. Take over the curriculum, the classroom, and the laboratory: Needless to say, not every student is considered a homeland security threat. Quite the opposite. Many students and faculty members are seen as potential assets. To exploit these assets, the Department of Homeland Security has launched its own curriculum under its Office of University Programs (OUP), intended, it says, to "foster a homeland security culture within the academic community."
The record so far is impressive: DHS has doled out 439 federal fellowships and scholarships since 2003, providing full tuition to students who fit "within the homeland security research enterprise." Two hundred twenty-seven schools now offer degree or certificate programs in "homeland security," a curriculum that encompasses over 1,800 courses. Along with OUP, some of the key players in creating the homeland security classroom are the U.S. Northern Command (Northcom) and the Aerospace Defense Command, co-founders of the Homeland Security and Defense Education Consortium.
OUP has also partnered with researchers and laboratories to "align scientific results with homeland security priorities." In Fiscal Year 2008 alone, $4.9 billion in federal funding will go to homeland security-related research. Grants correspond with 16 research topics selected by DHS, based on presidential directives, legislation, and a smattering of scientific advice.
But wait, there's more: DHS has founded and funded six of its very own "Centers of Excellence," research facilities that span dozens of universities from coast to coast. The latest is a Center of Excellence for the Study of Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism, the funding for which cleared the House in October. The Center is mandated to assist a National Commission in combating those "adopting or promoting an extremist belief system... to advance political, religious or social change."
7. Privatize, privatize, privatize: Of course, homeland security is not just a department, nor is it simply a new network of surveillance and data mining -- it's big business. (According to USA Today, global homeland-security-style spending had already reached $59 billion a year in 2006, a six-fold increase over 2000.)
Not surprisingly, then, universities have, in recent years, established unprecedented private-sector partnerships with the corporations that have the most to gain from their research. The Department of Homeland Security's on-campus National Consortium for the Study of Terrorism and Responses to Terrorism (START), for instance, features Lockheed Martin on its advisory board. The Center for Food Protection and Defense relies on an industry working group that includes Wal-Mart and McDonald's offering "guidance and direction," according to its chair.
While vast sums of money are flowing in from these corporate sponsors, huge payments are also flowing out into "strategic supplier contracts" with private contractors, as universities permanently outsource security operations to big corporations like Securitas and AlliedBarton. Little of this money actually goes to those guarding the properties, who are often among the most underpaid workers at universities. Instead, it fills the corporate coffers of those with little accountability for conditions on campus.
Meanwhile, some universities have developed intimate relationships with private-security outfits like the notorious Blackwater. Last May, for example, the University of Illinois and its police training institute cut a deal with the firm to share their facilities and training programs with Blackwater operatives. Local journalists later revealed that the director of the campus program at the time was on the Blackwater payroll. In the age of hired education, such collaboration is apparently par for the course.
Following these seven steps over the past six years, the homeland security state and its constituents have come a long way in their drive to remake the American campus in the image of a compound on lockdown. Somewhere, inside the growing homeland security state that is our country, the next seven steps in the process are undoubtedly already being planned out.
Still, the rise of Repress U is not inevitable. The new homeland security campus has proven itself unable to shut out public scrutiny or stamp out resistance to its latest Orwellian advances. Sometimes, such opposition even yields a free-speech zone dismantled, or the Pentagon's TALON de-clawed, or a Project Strike Back struck down. A rising tide of student protest, led by groups like the new Students for a Democratic Society, has won free-speech victories and reined in repression from Pace and Hampton, where the University dropped its threats of expulsion, to UCLA, where Tasers will no longer be wielded against passive resisters.
Yet, if the tightening grip of the homeland security complex isn't loosened, the latest towers of higher education will be built not of ivory, but of Kevlar for the over-armored, over-armed campuses of America.
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Posted by: MyLeftFoot on Jan 11, 2008 7:20 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: to borrow a phrase from the past...
Posted by: AMERICAN VETERAN
» RE: to borrow a phrase from the past...
Posted by: donl51
» All you need are the "MAGIC WORDS."
Posted by: Prairie Waif
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Posted by: papananook on Jan 11, 2008 8:29 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: We'd better say more than "NO"
Posted by: EinMD
» RE: We'd better say more than "NO"
Posted by: Romantic Violence
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Posted by: hackbut on Jan 11, 2008 9:11 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Fashionable tasers are aimed at the female market which despearatly needs them given the horrendous crimes of, inter alia, rape and murder regularly committed by we beastial men -perhaps when reproductive science becomes more advanced we can limit the proportion of men to the proportion of roosters in the barnyard,thus almost eliminating the crime and war rate - now there's a progressive idea! Anyone who is against tasers for women is indirectly in favor of crime against women.
These are different times with a different enemy. Our Moslem enemy attempts to use our own institutions to destroy us, and has the help of readily avalailable modern technology to set off their bombs, including a possible nuclear bomb,and the author needs to get out of the past and taste the reality of the present dangerous world unless he is willing to make the immoral trade of his philosophical well being for the destruction and pain of his fellow Americans if our security measures fail.
This article is so wrong and misguided that pages could be written to refute its many misperceptions of today's world, but let me simply end by saying that the model of the kind of ordered liberty we need for the present is more like the kind of ordered liberty they have in Singapore and much less like the rather anarchical liberty disgorged in this article by this author.
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» FAUX News gotcha bleating with the sheeples
Posted by: JustHisWordsdotcom
» The only Moslems I know are friends.
Posted by: herbal
» You Are Way Off Base!
Posted by: sofla100
» RE: hackbut
Posted by: ptoddchesser
» RE: hackbut
Posted by: Calfacon
» RE: hackbut
Posted by: madmax427
» RE: hackbut
Posted by: ALANHESTER
» RE: hackbut
Posted by: EinMD
» RE: hackbut
Posted by: donl51
» Wow....
Posted by: Dyolfknip
» RE: Wow....
Posted by: Cybershaman
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Posted by: LookOut on Jan 12, 2008 12:40 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There is a sordid history and precedent here…
It's no surprise that Prescott Bush (GW's grandfather) was a complete Fascist involved in financing Hitler and in the attempted overthrow of FDR (with JP Morgan, the Duponts, Rothschild House and the Rockefellers) nixed by whistleblower patriot Smedley Butler.
Then there’s the illegal private bank monopoly “Federal Reserve” Corp created to extort and squeeze blood money out of rank and file Americans and effectively rule Washington and its MSM circus parrot.
Our current breed of corporate criminal Fascists have used a bogus 9/11 cover-up and its sham "war on terror" to gut the constitution and Bill of Rights under an Orwellian "Homeland Security" fraud built to stifle domestic dissent.
Then there's the inevitable economic meltdown cum planned demolition.
By the way, don’t look for help from the current crop of sellout stooge “electable” and CFR “globalist” candidates for president. Every one of them with the exceptions of Kucinich and eccentric Ron Paul are fully bought and paid for.
And it’s the sheeple that put us here as much as the ruling class that brainwashed them.
This looks to be a very, very long night.
“The real truth of the matter is, as you and I know, that a financial element in the larger centers has owned the government ever since the days of Andrew Jackson.”
President FDR (on de facto Fascist rule in a letter to corporate con man “Colonel” Edward M. House, founder of the Council on Foreign Relations and political fixer for the ruling class. House also handled President Wilson. 11/21/ l933)
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» RE: When Do the Sheeple Wake Up?
Posted by: Romantic Violence
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Posted by: Richard House on Jan 12, 2008 12:42 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Target campus administrators and campus police doubling as FBI (threaten, intimidate, beat, tase, their family members, and dog if they have one).
Lock and load: purchase tasers, ammo, heavy weaponry, create a People’s Global War on the Fascist Establishment. For each police brutality respond in kind with ten brutal actions against the police.
Develop a counter-surveillance network with surveillance jamming equipment (plus French resistance style methods to monitor police movements and administration plans)
Mine police and administration personnel records: employ computer hijackers to break into government and private data bases.
Track foreign-born police and FBI personnel to manipulate personnel records and get them arrested by their own kind.
Recruit double agents to accept fellowships and scholarships to spy for the People’s Global War on the Fascist Establishment.
Infiltrate all big corporations connected with Homeland Security to work within and bring down the system
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» RE: How to Counter a Homeland Security Campus in Seven Steps
Posted by: outsideagitator
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Posted by: NoPCZone on Jan 12, 2008 1:25 AM
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Along with this shift has come a change in the attitude of administration. Chasing corporate money and cross-pollination with the big money has brought about an ever more conservative attitude toward student rights and conduct. That plus the general drift toward a police state in this country over the same time, and you get what we have going on at our Colleges and Universities.
Real learning takes place in an open-minded and tolerant environment and is a conversation- not a lecture from on high. It's about questioning pre-conceived notions and assumptions as well as disciplined study and research. This cannot take place on a campus that is intolerant of conjecture, protest, inquiry and diversity of thought.
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» RE: It Used To Be About Education- Not Anymore
Posted by: donl51
» RE: It Used To Be About Education- Not Anymore
Posted by: ALANHESTER
» University in CANADA--->Privacy Commisioners AND HUMAN RIGHTS COMMISIONS
Posted by: Prairie Waif
» Don't Forget The Draft
Posted by: Jeff Hoffman
» RE: It Used To Be About Education- Not Anymore
Posted by: EdinIowa
» RE: It Used To Be About Education- Not Anymore
Posted by: NoPCZone
» Canada For Education
Posted by: Prairie Waif
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Posted by: sofla100 on Jan 12, 2008 2:10 AM
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Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Jan 12, 2008 2:21 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Doesn't sound too bad, so far, but where does this general trend lead to? What always happens when a dictator tries to take over? Where do they start? With the press and with the schools, generally:
"Apart from the policy of crushing the potential opponents of their regime, the Nazi Government took active steps to increase its power over the German population. In the field of education, everything was done to ensure that the youth of Germany was brought up in the atmosphere of National Socialism and accepted National Socialist teachings. As early as the 7th April, 1933, the law reorganising the Civil Service had made it possible for the Nazi Government to remove all " Subversive and unreliable teachers ", and this was followed by numerous other measures to make sure that the schools were staffed by teachers who could be trusted to teach their pupils the full meaning of National Socialist creed.
Apart from the influence of National Socialist teaching in the schools, the Hitler Youth Organisation was also relied upon by the Nazi Leaders for obtaining fanatical support from the younger generation. The defendant von Schirach, who had been Reich Youth Leader of the NSDAP since 1931, was appointed Youth Leader of the German Reich in June, 1933. Soon all the youth organisations had been either dissolved or absorbed by the Hitler Youth, with the exception of the Catholic Youth. The Hitler Youth was organised on strict military lines, and as early as 1933 the Wehrmacht was cooperating in providing pre-military training for the Reich Youth.
The Nazi Government endeavoured to unite the nation in support of their policies through the extensive use of propaganda. A number of agencies were set up whose duty was to control and influence the press, radio, films, publishing firms, etc., in Germany, and to supervise entertainment and cultural and artistic activities. All these agencies came under Goebbels' Ministry of the People's Enlightenment and Propaganda, which together with a corresponding organisation in the NSDAP and the Reich Chamber of Culture, was ultimately responsible for exercising this supervision. . .
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Posted by: ellie on Jan 12, 2008 5:53 AM
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Posted by: zooeyhall on Jan 12, 2008 8:38 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There is alot more in his story that is all-to-real today: the U.S. government using fear of "terrorists" to justify politcal repression and torture.
This story was written in 1972. Amazing that what was once fantasy has now become reality.
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Posted by: EdinIowa on Jan 12, 2008 8:43 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
To be sure, there will be factional conflicts among the elite, and a degree of debate will be permitted; but no one outside the privileged circle will be allowed to influence state policy. Dissidents will be marginalized—usually by “the people” themselves. Deprived of historical knowledge by a thoroughly impoverished educational system designed to produce complacent consumers, left ignorant of current events by a corporate media devoted solely to profit, many will internalize the force-fed values of the ruling elite, and act accordingly. There will be little need for overt methods of control.
The rulers will act in secret, for reasons of “national security,” and the people will not be permitted to know what goes on in their name. Actions once unthinkable will be accepted as routine: government by executive fiat, state murder of “enemies” selected by the leader, undeclared wars, torture, mass detentions without charge, the looting of the national treasury, the creation of huge new “security structures” targeted at the populace. In time, this will be seen as “normal,” as the chill of autumn feels normal when summer is gone. It will all seem normal.”
— November 10, 2001
Moscow Times (English Edition)
That was posted by someone else before me, so my thanks to him/her.
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Posted by: ptoddchesser on Jan 12, 2008 9:01 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When I was in high school back in the 80's I was part of a group of people that were protesting the use of Hurlburt Field Air Force Base to train Contra rebels. There were several people taking photographs of the protesters. It was obvious that some of these people were not journalists.I was almost 17 at the time. A few weeks after the protest I received a letter in the mail informing me that my chances of ever serving in the military or working in the federal government could be greatly harmed(as if I would have ever wanted to work for the fed).I was also informed that my ability to vote later in life could be in jeopardy. I was also informed that my actions could threaten my father's military career.One of his officers spoke to him and in turn he told me that I needed to stop what I was doing.This was 1985. If the government felt threatened by the peaceful protests of a teenager then I can only imagine how paranoid they are now.
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» RE: Wow!
Posted by: EinMD
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Posted by: scheherezade on Jan 12, 2008 9:24 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
9. Subsidize and, whenever possible, publicly encourage cretinous religious-based false dichotomies between scientifically-arrived at, evidence-based conclusions and faith-based ‘theories.’
10. Attack and defund the secondary school system to reduce the number of students who actually make it to college (eventually, reducing the number of universities) to maximize ruling class recruits – hopefully corralling ‘radicals’ in a manageable, easily monitorable pool.
Corollary to 10: Manipulate economic and public policy to ensure as few students as possible gravitate towards liberal arts or social science majors. Give big business a big fat sponsorship finger in scholarship processes, to help the College of Business Management turn out legions of corporate career climbers with as few critical/ethical thinking skills as possible.
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» RE: Great article, but I would add a few more steps
Posted by: ALANHESTER
» RE: Great article, but I would add a few more steps
Posted by: outsideagitator
» RE: Great article, but I would add a few more steps
Posted by: outsideagitator
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Posted by: ProfessorW on Jan 12, 2008 10:51 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Surely anyone who reads in Alternet on a regular basis understands the distinction between public and private and, further, sees that private companies having secret access to data about our lives without our permission is a problem. Especially when that access is granted--indeed mandated--by government contract.
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» RE: Public Spaces
Posted by: StrayCat
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Posted by: ALANHESTER on Jan 12, 2008 10:52 AM
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» RE: How do you keep out terrorists if you hire the terrorists to guard the henhouse?
Posted by: EinMD
» RE: How do you keep out terrorists if you hire the terrorists to guard the henhouse?
Posted by: VickyinSD
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Posted by: EinMD on Jan 12, 2008 11:06 AM
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* Offer void where prohibited by law.
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» RE: And this is how our nation dies.
Posted by: VickyinSD
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Posted by: outsideagitator on Jan 12, 2008 12:18 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Also, it would help if folks who know about organizations that are beginning to track and monitor this neo-fascist effort it would be great to post it somewheres.
Joseph
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» RE: Great Post! Now lets fight back!
Posted by: scheherezade
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Posted by: Ian MacLeod on Jan 12, 2008 1:58 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
and will not fight are forced to yield.
Leave the Wrong unmet, unfought,
and give up all that you have got.
Those who fight and will not yield,
who leave behind a bloody field,
may leave their bone and blood thereon,
but those who follow fear no Wrong.
Evil is a coward, friends
and fears what might well mean its end.
Learn that Evil’s simply known:
It swears and lies; it kills for gold.
All cost is borne but by the ones
who have the least – those send their sons
and daughters into needless Hell,
while safe, the wealthy still do well.
It will not fight in honest light,
nor from the front with it’s own might.
Best done with others’ children, tricked,
and say that all were fairly picked.
The rich all lead the way they fight:
From somewhere safe, and from behind
For them, all war’s the bottom line
It’s only sales and dollar signs
If you are still uncertain now,
then find the money, follow how
it makes it’s way to those who call
for war, but never fight, or fall.
The leaders never hear the cries
of dying soldiers, mother, child
They never see a drop of blood
Just ink in red, or black as mud
Fight not for words that stir the blood,
or wealth or “glory” – war has none.
Raise weapons but in Freedom’s name,
But know the truth or own the blame.
For those who will not take the field,
and will not fight are forced to yield.
Who leaves the Wrong unmet, unfought,
will lose forever all they’ve got.
Ian MacLeod
December 21st, 2006
Oregon Veteran
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Posted by: Cathyc on Jan 12, 2008 3:22 PM
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Back in the USSR! (John Lennon)
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Posted by: maxpayne on Jan 12, 2008 4:53 PM
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» RE: There is no such thing as homeland security in reality. In fact,
Posted by: Ian MacLeod
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Posted by: hackbut on Jan 12, 2008 5:04 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I will not try to respond to most of the comments, not having the time to refute everyone, but a few which were especially vicious and perhaps in violation of the rules of the site need some comment.
JustHisWords.com - call this Ivy League doctoral graduate a "simpleton" if you wish, but recall that this site prohibits personal attacks. In other words, follow the rules.
cwilsondrum - the site prohibits threats.
calfalcon suggests that I read The Gulag Archpelago. I have read it several times, perhaps before you were born, and regard Solzehnitsyn as a great man who exposed what happens when the left takes over society. And as to left vs. right, the ultimate argument is to count the bodies historically, and by this measure the left is the clear victor in its inhumanity to its fellow man.
As for the rest of you, if you want to read another book which will open your eyes, read Paul Johnson's "Intellectuals" which will awaken you to the distressing fact that the left loves people in the abstract but not so much in person, the ultimate proof being the tmillions of deaths and other miseries perpetrated by left wing command regimes which deprive ordinary people of the most basic elements of freedom.
Many of you who "replied" showed the above deficiency by completely ignoring my deep emmpathy with the females in our society who are victimized daily with both routine and horrendous violence.
Folks, I suggest that you would help yourselves by opening your minds and avoiding name callling and threats.
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» The United States Constitution
Posted by: sofla100
» Pointing Out Obvious Ignorance is not "Name Calling"
Posted by: LookOut
» RE: Pointing Out Obvious Ignorance is not "Name Calling"
Posted by: hackbut
» RE: Hackbut, I've always wondered what life would be like under a rock?
Posted by: johngary66
» RE: P.S. It really is a waste of time feeding a troll. You've let him hijack this entire
Posted by: johngary66
» My, such a rude troll !
Posted by: PaulC
» RE: Pointing Out Obvious Ignorance is not "Name Calling"
Posted by: LookOut
» RE: Pointing Out Obvious Ignorance is not "Name Calling"
Posted by: Cybershaman
» RE: hackbut
Posted by: Dyolfknip
» RE: hackbut
Posted by: StrayCat
» RE: whackabut
Posted by: JustHisWordsdotcom
Comments are closed-
Posted by: bird-ma on Jan 12, 2008 6:09 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I keep coming back to: what are we fighting for? Our safety--physical safety? It seems to me that we must fight for our ideals, for our rule of law, for our liberties--for the right of each individual to pursue life, liberty and happiness in the way that is best for them--as long as they do no harm to anyone.
And I also keep coming back to the Golden Rule: "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." Don't you think we should practice this as a nation? Not just as individuals? How would we feel if China (who owns our debt) decided our culture was getting way out of hand and that they knew what was best for us. So they called in the debt, but said they'd release us from debt if we allow them to put military bases in our country in strategic places--like in our oil-rich areas. And what if they started intervening in our politics and government? How would we feel? But that's exactly what we've been doing in many third-world countries, and even developed countries--often with disastrous results (read "Confessions of an Economic Hit-Man" and "Sorrows of Empire").
So, could we be safer if we "won" with words, rather than threats, sanctions, bribing, and occupying?
And how about if you men start making your brothers accountable? That might help us women, who are vulnerable to rape at your collective hands, to have security w/o tasers.
Just some thoughts.
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» RE: bird-ma
Posted by: hackbut
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Posted by: undrgrndgirl on Jan 12, 2008 7:00 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: hijacking free speech and curriculum...
Posted by: EdinIowa
» RE: hijacking free speech and curriculum...
Posted by: hackbut
» and just what is your experience? nm
Posted by: JoshuaLudd
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Snowpuppy on Jan 12, 2008 8:05 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Or was it need, fueled by greed?
Who was paid and who was made?
Yes, they knew but now we know,
The shadows tall and long they grow.
Unless we see, we will not be free -
Some want to end democracy.
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» RE: 9/11 was allowed to happen to do just this.
Posted by: willymack
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Posted by: sofla100 on Jan 12, 2008 8:36 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Bush/Military Officers/Cabinet Secretaries Violated the U.S. Constitution and are Guilty of Treason
Posted by: hackbut
» No, This is an Invented Exception
Posted by: sofla100
» RE: Bush/Military Officers/Cabinet Secretaries Violated the U.S. Constitution and are Guilty of Trea
Posted by: EdinIowa
» RE: Bush/Military Officers/Cabinet Secretaries Violated the U.S. Constitution and are Guilty of Treason
Posted by: brunowe
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Posted by: mutualaid on Jan 12, 2008 11:12 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
more here:http://nyc.indymedia.org/en/2007/12/93185.html
Patriotic, civil libertarian and/or freedom-loving students at these universities would likely join the nationwide network to oppose this legislation which would create Centers of Excellence to study the sources of "domestic terror and radicalization":
http://www.dhs.gov/xres/programs/editorial_0498.shtm
The universities listed in link above are part of the homeland security industrial complex that would benefit $$$ if this were passed.
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Posted by: thornwolf on Jan 13, 2008 2:31 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
According to the US Dept of State, in 2005, a recent year, the total number of US private citizens killed worldwide by acts of terrorism was 56. (http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/65498.pdf)
Fifty-six! Another 17 were injured and 11 others were kidnapped. 84 people affected altogether. Even lightning claimed more American victims than that. This puts the lie to government fear mongering about terrorists.
I'm sorry for those 84 people and their families, but life is inherently not without some risk. Is the loss of 56 lives worth the further expenditure of hundreds or thousands more of our own, not to mention the vast treasure expended on killing foreigners instead of providing for our own at home? And let's not forget the many thousands of civilians killed and maimed and otherwise deprived of liberty in those countries we turn to rubble out of anger (or is it greed for oil)?
Our government is telling us that because of a less than 1 in 5-million chance of becoming a victim of terrorism -- less than the chance of being killed by lightning -- we Americans are expected to surrender rights and liberties -- ostensibly to prevent some bad guys somewhere from depriving us of those very standards of liberal democracy that we are now expected to give up! What kind of perverted logic is that? I do not surrender!
And all the while we blithely ignore the fact that more than 1 in 7,000 of us will be killed in traffic this year. DUH!!!
When are we going to put a stop to the madness?
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» RE: You're more likely to be killed by lightning than by terrorists
Posted by: willymack
» RE: You're more likely to be killed by lightning than by terrorists
Posted by: hackbut
» Machismo run amok!
Posted by: PaulC
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Posted by: macdon1 on Jan 13, 2008 7:21 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: There Used to be Something Called Academic Freedom
Posted by: Prairie Waif
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Posted by: penobscotdziekuje@yahoo.com on Jan 14, 2008 10:26 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Is this what attending college has come to? There's no privacy anywhere. Critics say well, if you have nothing to hide, you don't have to worry about cameras on campus.
Sorry, I do. It makes us all feel insecure in insecure times.
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Posted by: F_L_I_P_S_I_D_E on Jan 14, 2008 1:47 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It Is What It Is: Harvard's Terrorist Training Centers
Specifically, the author does not tell you why he is a good candidate for listing under domestic extremists.
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Posted by: hackbut on Jan 14, 2008 6:13 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
My thanks to the rational posters, often female, and as to the programmed, including the last poster, I suggest that it is not a good idea to go through life spewing the trash that some left wing (or right wing) professor has packed into your brain when you were too young to defend yourself.
I am probably the only proletarian in this discussion, coming from a family of factory workers and having been one myself and a union member. This is why I despise left-wing elitists, many of which seek to prescribe for the working class without any experience of living in it. I have, and I know that these people don't want their hard earned money used to finance crack-pot leftists schemes and I am that kind of of conservative.
Sorry for going off topic, but since when is the topic sacrosanct, and for those who complain of my being on a leftie site, a little broadening of the dialogue is good.
For whatever it is worth, I depise the Bush administration in many ways, but expect to despise any Democratic administration for its different excesses.
And for those who have tried to shout me down, I recognize an old communist tactic when I see it and it doesn't work on practical intellectuals like me. You folks are s-o-o-o out of date. The worst of you like the last poster should seek treatment.
As for others of you, you should consider whether the left wing drivel stuffed into you by some tenured useless know-it-all when you were too young to defend yourself intellectually is going to be good for either you or the country versus some intelligent middle of the road approach. We both know the answer to that.
I wish you all well and in the future let's try to dialogue rather than abuse, but as they say in the schoolyard, stick and stones ... .
I especially thank the rational, and for some of the others they have my sympathy if this is how they're going to go through life. Such a distortion of reality!
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» RE: Troll sign off - YAAWWNN!
Posted by: PaulC
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Posted by: MyLeftFoot on Jan 11, 2008 7:20 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: to borrow a phrase from the past...
Posted by: AMERICAN VETERAN
» RE: to borrow a phrase from the past...
Posted by: donl51
» All you need are the "MAGIC WORDS."
Posted by: Prairie Waif
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Posted by: papananook on Jan 11, 2008 8:29 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: We'd better say more than "NO"
Posted by: EinMD
» RE: We'd better say more than "NO"
Posted by: Romantic Violence
Comments are closed-
Posted by: hackbut on Jan 11, 2008 9:11 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Fashionable tasers are aimed at the female market which despearatly needs them given the horrendous crimes of, inter alia, rape and murder regularly committed by we beastial men -perhaps when reproductive science becomes more advanced we can limit the proportion of men to the proportion of roosters in the barnyard,thus almost eliminating the crime and war rate - now there's a progressive idea! Anyone who is against tasers for women is indirectly in favor of crime against women.
These are different times with a different enemy. Our Moslem enemy attempts to use our own institutions to destroy us, and has the help of readily avalailable modern technology to set off their bombs, including a possible nuclear bomb,and the author needs to get out of the past and taste the reality of the present dangerous world unless he is willing to make the immoral trade of his philosophical well being for the destruction and pain of his fellow Americans if our security measures fail.
This article is so wrong and misguided that pages could be written to refute its many misperceptions of today's world, but let me simply end by saying that the model of the kind of ordered liberty we need for the present is more like the kind of ordered liberty they have in Singapore and much less like the rather anarchical liberty disgorged in this article by this author.
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» FAUX News gotcha bleating with the sheeples
Posted by: JustHisWordsdotcom
» The only Moslems I know are friends.
Posted by: herbal
» You Are Way Off Base!
Posted by: sofla100
» RE: hackbut
Posted by: ptoddchesser
» RE: hackbut
Posted by: Calfacon
» RE: hackbut
Posted by: madmax427
» RE: hackbut
Posted by: ALANHESTER
» RE: hackbut
Posted by: EinMD
» RE: hackbut
Posted by: donl51
» Wow....
Posted by: Dyolfknip
» RE: Wow....
Posted by: Cybershaman
Comments are closed-
Posted by: LookOut on Jan 12, 2008 12:40 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There is a sordid history and precedent here…
It's no surprise that Prescott Bush (GW's grandfather) was a complete Fascist involved in financing Hitler and in the attempted overthrow of FDR (with JP Morgan, the Duponts, Rothschild House and the Rockefellers) nixed by whistleblower patriot Smedley Butler.
Then there’s the illegal private bank monopoly “Federal Reserve” Corp created to extort and squeeze blood money out of rank and file Americans and effectively rule Washington and its MSM circus parrot.
Our current breed of corporate criminal Fascists have used a bogus 9/11 cover-up and its sham "war on terror" to gut the constitution and Bill of Rights under an Orwellian "Homeland Security" fraud built to stifle domestic dissent.
Then there's the inevitable economic meltdown cum planned demolition.
By the way, don’t look for help from the current crop of sellout stooge “electable” and CFR “globalist” candidates for president. Every one of them with the exceptions of Kucinich and eccentric Ron Paul are fully bought and paid for.
And it’s the sheeple that put us here as much as the ruling class that brainwashed them.
This looks to be a very, very long night.
“The real truth of the matter is, as you and I know, that a financial element in the larger centers has owned the government ever since the days of Andrew Jackson.”
President FDR (on de facto Fascist rule in a letter to corporate con man “Colonel” Edward M. House, founder of the Council on Foreign Relations and political fixer for the ruling class. House also handled President Wilson. 11/21/ l933)
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» RE: When Do the Sheeple Wake Up?
Posted by: Romantic Violence
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Posted by: Richard House on Jan 12, 2008 12:42 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Target campus administrators and campus police doubling as FBI (threaten, intimidate, beat, tase, their family members, and dog if they have one).
Lock and load: purchase tasers, ammo, heavy weaponry, create a People’s Global War on the Fascist Establishment. For each police brutality respond in kind with ten brutal actions against the police.
Develop a counter-surveillance network with surveillance jamming equipment (plus French resistance style methods to monitor police movements and administration plans)
Mine police and administration personnel records: employ computer hijackers to break into government and private data bases.
Track foreign-born police and FBI personnel to manipulate personnel records and get them arrested by their own kind.
Recruit double agents to accept fellowships and scholarships to spy for the People’s Global War on the Fascist Establishment.
Infiltrate all big corporations connected with Homeland Security to work within and bring down the system
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» RE: How to Counter a Homeland Security Campus in Seven Steps
Posted by: outsideagitator
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Posted by: NoPCZone on Jan 12, 2008 1:25 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Along with this shift has come a change in the attitude of administration. Chasing corporate money and cross-pollination with the big money has brought about an ever more conservative attitude toward student rights and conduct. That plus the general drift toward a police state in this country over the same time, and you get what we have going on at our Colleges and Universities.
Real learning takes place in an open-minded and tolerant environment and is a conversation- not a lecture from on high. It's about questioning pre-conceived notions and assumptions as well as disciplined study and research. This cannot take place on a campus that is intolerant of conjecture, protest, inquiry and diversity of thought.
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» RE: It Used To Be About Education- Not Anymore
Posted by: donl51
» RE: It Used To Be About Education- Not Anymore
Posted by: ALANHESTER
» University in CANADA--->Privacy Commisioners AND HUMAN RIGHTS COMMISIONS
Posted by: Prairie Waif
» Don't Forget The Draft
Posted by: Jeff Hoffman
» RE: It Used To Be About Education- Not Anymore
Posted by: EdinIowa
» RE: It Used To Be About Education- Not Anymore
Posted by: NoPCZone
» Canada For Education
Posted by: Prairie Waif
Comments are closed-
Posted by: sofla100 on Jan 12, 2008 2:10 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Jan 12, 2008 2:21 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Doesn't sound too bad, so far, but where does this general trend lead to? What always happens when a dictator tries to take over? Where do they start? With the press and with the schools, generally:
"Apart from the policy of crushing the potential opponents of their regime, the Nazi Government took active steps to increase its power over the German population. In the field of education, everything was done to ensure that the youth of Germany was brought up in the atmosphere of National Socialism and accepted National Socialist teachings. As early as the 7th April, 1933, the law reorganising the Civil Service had made it possible for the Nazi Government to remove all " Subversive and unreliable teachers ", and this was followed by numerous other measures to make sure that the schools were staffed by teachers who could be trusted to teach their pupils the full meaning of National Socialist creed.
Apart from the influence of National Socialist teaching in the schools, the Hitler Youth Organisation was also relied upon by the Nazi Leaders for obtaining fanatical support from the younger generation. The defendant von Schirach, who had been Reich Youth Leader of the NSDAP since 1931, was appointed Youth Leader of the German Reich in June, 1933. Soon all the youth organisations had been either dissolved or absorbed by the Hitler Youth, with the exception of the Catholic Youth. The Hitler Youth was organised on strict military lines, and as early as 1933 the Wehrmacht was cooperating in providing pre-military training for the Reich Youth.
The Nazi Government endeavoured to unite the nation in support of their policies through the extensive use of propaganda. A number of agencies were set up whose duty was to control and influence the press, radio, films, publishing firms, etc., in Germany, and to supervise entertainment and cultural and artistic activities. All these agencies came under Goebbels' Ministry of the People's Enlightenment and Propaganda, which together with a corresponding organisation in the NSDAP and the Reich Chamber of Culture, was ultimately responsible for exercising this supervision. . .
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Posted by: ellie on Jan 12, 2008 5:53 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: zooeyhall on Jan 12, 2008 8:38 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There is alot more in his story that is all-to-real today: the U.S. government using fear of "terrorists" to justify politcal repression and torture.
This story was written in 1972. Amazing that what was once fantasy has now become reality.
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Posted by: EdinIowa on Jan 12, 2008 8:43 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
To be sure, there will be factional conflicts among the elite, and a degree of debate will be permitted; but no one outside the privileged circle will be allowed to influence state policy. Dissidents will be marginalized—usually by “the people” themselves. Deprived of historical knowledge by a thoroughly impoverished educational system designed to produce complacent consumers, left ignorant of current events by a corporate media devoted solely to profit, many will internalize the force-fed values of the ruling elite, and act accordingly. There will be little need for overt methods of control.
The rulers will act in secret, for reasons of “national security,” and the people will not be permitted to know what goes on in their name. Actions once unthinkable will be accepted as routine: government by executive fiat, state murder of “enemies” selected by the leader, undeclared wars, torture, mass detentions without charge, the looting of the national treasury, the creation of huge new “security structures” targeted at the populace. In time, this will be seen as “normal,” as the chill of autumn feels normal when summer is gone. It will all seem normal.”
— November 10, 2001
Moscow Times (English Edition)
That was posted by someone else before me, so my thanks to him/her.
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Posted by: ptoddchesser on Jan 12, 2008 9:01 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When I was in high school back in the 80's I was part of a group of people that were protesting the use of Hurlburt Field Air Force Base to train Contra rebels. There were several people taking photographs of the protesters. It was obvious that some of these people were not journalists.I was almost 17 at the time. A few weeks after the protest I received a letter in the mail informing me that my chances of ever serving in the military or working in the federal government could be greatly harmed(as if I would have ever wanted to work for the fed).I was also informed that my ability to vote later in life could be in jeopardy. I was also informed that my actions could threaten my father's military career.One of his officers spoke to him and in turn he told me that I needed to stop what I was doing.This was 1985. If the government felt threatened by the peaceful protests of a teenager then I can only imagine how paranoid they are now.
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» RE: Wow!
Posted by: EinMD
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Posted by: scheherezade on Jan 12, 2008 9:24 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
9. Subsidize and, whenever possible, publicly encourage cretinous religious-based false dichotomies between scientifically-arrived at, evidence-based conclusions and faith-based ‘theories.’
10. Attack and defund the secondary school system to reduce the number of students who actually make it to college (eventually, reducing the number of universities) to maximize ruling class recruits – hopefully corralling ‘radicals’ in a manageable, easily monitorable pool.
Corollary to 10: Manipulate economic and public policy to ensure as few students as possible gravitate towards liberal arts or social science majors. Give big business a big fat sponsorship finger in scholarship processes, to help the College of Business Management turn out legions of corporate career climbers with as few critical/ethical thinking skills as possible.
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» RE: Great article, but I would add a few more steps
Posted by: ALANHESTER
» RE: Great article, but I would add a few more steps
Posted by: outsideagitator
» RE: Great article, but I would add a few more steps
Posted by: outsideagitator
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Posted by: ProfessorW on Jan 12, 2008 10:51 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Surely anyone who reads in Alternet on a regular basis understands the distinction between public and private and, further, sees that private companies having secret access to data about our lives without our permission is a problem. Especially when that access is granted--indeed mandated--by government contract.
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» RE: Public Spaces
Posted by: StrayCat
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Posted by: ALANHESTER on Jan 12, 2008 10:52 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: How do you keep out terrorists if you hire the terrorists to guard the henhouse?
Posted by: EinMD
» RE: How do you keep out terrorists if you hire the terrorists to guard the henhouse?
Posted by: VickyinSD
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Posted by: EinMD on Jan 12, 2008 11:06 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
* Offer void where prohibited by law.
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» RE: And this is how our nation dies.
Posted by: VickyinSD
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Posted by: outsideagitator on Jan 12, 2008 12:18 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Also, it would help if folks who know about organizations that are beginning to track and monitor this neo-fascist effort it would be great to post it somewheres.
Joseph
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» RE: Great Post! Now lets fight back!
Posted by: scheherezade
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Posted by: Ian MacLeod on Jan 12, 2008 1:58 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
and will not fight are forced to yield.
Leave the Wrong unmet, unfought,
and give up all that you have got.
Those who fight and will not yield,
who leave behind a bloody field,
may leave their bone and blood thereon,
but those who follow fear no Wrong.
Evil is a coward, friends
and fears what might well mean its end.
Learn that Evil’s simply known:
It swears and lies; it kills for gold.
All cost is borne but by the ones
who have the least – those send their sons
and daughters into needless Hell,
while safe, the wealthy still do well.
It will not fight in honest light,
nor from the front with it’s own might.
Best done with others’ children, tricked,
and say that all were fairly picked.
The rich all lead the way they fight:
From somewhere safe, and from behind
For them, all war’s the bottom line
It’s only sales and dollar signs
If you are still uncertain now,
then find the money, follow how
it makes it’s way to those who call
for war, but never fight, or fall.
The leaders never hear the cries
of dying soldiers, mother, child
They never see a drop of blood
Just ink in red, or black as mud
Fight not for words that stir the blood,
or wealth or “glory” – war has none.
Raise weapons but in Freedom’s name,
But know the truth or own the blame.
For those who will not take the field,
and will not fight are forced to yield.
Who leaves the Wrong unmet, unfought,
will lose forever all they’ve got.
Ian MacLeod
December 21st, 2006
Oregon Veteran
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Posted by: Cathyc on Jan 12, 2008 3:22 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Back in the USSR! (John Lennon)
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Posted by: maxpayne on Jan 12, 2008 4:53 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: There is no such thing as homeland security in reality. In fact,
Posted by: Ian MacLeod
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Posted by: hackbut on Jan 12, 2008 5:04 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I will not try to respond to most of the comments, not having the time to refute everyone, but a few which were especially vicious and perhaps in violation of the rules of the site need some comment.
JustHisWords.com - call this Ivy League doctoral graduate a "simpleton" if you wish, but recall that this site prohibits personal attacks. In other words, follow the rules.
cwilsondrum - the site prohibits threats.
calfalcon suggests that I read The Gulag Archpelago. I have read it several times, perhaps before you were born, and regard Solzehnitsyn as a great man who exposed what happens when the left takes over society. And as to left vs. right, the ultimate argument is to count the bodies historically, and by this measure the left is the clear victor in its inhumanity to its fellow man.
As for the rest of you, if you want to read another book which will open your eyes, read Paul Johnson's "Intellectuals" which will awaken you to the distressing fact that the left loves people in the abstract but not so much in person, the ultimate proof being the tmillions of deaths and other miseries perpetrated by left wing command regimes which deprive ordinary people of the most basic elements of freedom.
Many of you who "replied" showed the above deficiency by completely ignoring my deep emmpathy with the females in our society who are victimized daily with both routine and horrendous violence.
Folks, I suggest that you would help yourselves by opening your minds and avoiding name callling and threats.
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» The United States Constitution
Posted by: sofla100
» Pointing Out Obvious Ignorance is not "Name Calling"
Posted by: LookOut
» RE: Pointing Out Obvious Ignorance is not "Name Calling"
Posted by: hackbut
» RE: Hackbut, I've always wondered what life would be like under a rock?
Posted by: johngary66
» RE: P.S. It really is a waste of time feeding a troll. You've let him hijack this entire
Posted by: johngary66
» My, such a rude troll !
Posted by: PaulC
» RE: Pointing Out Obvious Ignorance is not "Name Calling"
Posted by: LookOut
» RE: Pointing Out Obvious Ignorance is not "Name Calling"
Posted by: Cybershaman
» RE: hackbut
Posted by: Dyolfknip
» RE: hackbut
Posted by: StrayCat
» RE: whackabut
Posted by: JustHisWordsdotcom
Comments are closed-
Posted by: bird-ma on Jan 12, 2008 6:09 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I keep coming back to: what are we fighting for? Our safety--physical safety? It seems to me that we must fight for our ideals, for our rule of law, for our liberties--for the right of each individual to pursue life, liberty and happiness in the way that is best for them--as long as they do no harm to anyone.
And I also keep coming back to the Golden Rule: "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." Don't you think we should practice this as a nation? Not just as individuals? How would we feel if China (who owns our debt) decided our culture was getting way out of hand and that they knew what was best for us. So they called in the debt, but said they'd release us from debt if we allow them to put military bases in our country in strategic places--like in our oil-rich areas. And what if they started intervening in our politics and government? How would we feel? But that's exactly what we've been doing in many third-world countries, and even developed countries--often with disastrous results (read "Confessions of an Economic Hit-Man" and "Sorrows of Empire").
So, could we be safer if we "won" with words, rather than threats, sanctions, bribing, and occupying?
And how about if you men start making your brothers accountable? That might help us women, who are vulnerable to rape at your collective hands, to have security w/o tasers.
Just some thoughts.
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» RE: bird-ma
Posted by: hackbut
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Posted by: undrgrndgirl on Jan 12, 2008 7:00 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: hijacking free speech and curriculum...
Posted by: EdinIowa
» RE: hijacking free speech and curriculum...
Posted by: hackbut
» and just what is your experience? nm
Posted by: JoshuaLudd
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Snowpuppy on Jan 12, 2008 8:05 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Or was it need, fueled by greed?
Who was paid and who was made?
Yes, they knew but now we know,
The shadows tall and long they grow.
Unless we see, we will not be free -
Some want to end democracy.
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» RE: 9/11 was allowed to happen to do just this.
Posted by: willymack
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Posted by: sofla100 on Jan 12, 2008 8:36 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Bush/Military Officers/Cabinet Secretaries Violated the U.S. Constitution and are Guilty of Treason
Posted by: hackbut
» No, This is an Invented Exception
Posted by: sofla100
» RE: Bush/Military Officers/Cabinet Secretaries Violated the U.S. Constitution and are Guilty of Trea
Posted by: EdinIowa
» RE: Bush/Military Officers/Cabinet Secretaries Violated the U.S. Constitution and are Guilty of Treason
Posted by: brunowe
Comments are closed-
Posted by: mutualaid on Jan 12, 2008 11:12 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
more here:http://nyc.indymedia.org/en/2007/12/93185.html
Patriotic, civil libertarian and/or freedom-loving students at these universities would likely join the nationwide network to oppose this legislation which would create Centers of Excellence to study the sources of "domestic terror and radicalization":
http://www.dhs.gov/xres/programs/editorial_0498.shtm
The universities listed in link above are part of the homeland security industrial complex that would benefit $$$ if this were passed.
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Comments are closed-
Posted by: thornwolf on Jan 13, 2008 2:31 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
According to the US Dept of State, in 2005, a recent year, the total number of US private citizens killed worldwide by acts of terrorism was 56. (http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/65498.pdf)
Fifty-six! Another 17 were injured and 11 others were kidnapped. 84 people affected altogether. Even lightning claimed more American victims than that. This puts the lie to government fear mongering about terrorists.
I'm sorry for those 84 people and their families, but life is inherently not without some risk. Is the loss of 56 lives worth the further expenditure of hundreds or thousands more of our own, not to mention the vast treasure expended on killing foreigners instead of providing for our own at home? And let's not forget the many thousands of civilians killed and maimed and otherwise deprived of liberty in those countries we turn to rubble out of anger (or is it greed for oil)?
Our government is telling us that because of a less than 1 in 5-million chance of becoming a victim of terrorism -- less than the chance of being killed by lightning -- we Americans are expected to surrender rights and liberties -- ostensibly to prevent some bad guys somewhere from depriving us of those very standards of liberal democracy that we are now expected to give up! What kind of perverted logic is that? I do not surrender!
And all the while we blithely ignore the fact that more than 1 in 7,000 of us will be killed in traffic this year. DUH!!!
When are we going to put a stop to the madness?
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» RE: You're more likely to be killed by lightning than by terrorists
Posted by: willymack
» RE: You're more likely to be killed by lightning than by terrorists
Posted by: hackbut
» Machismo run amok!
Posted by: PaulC
Comments are closed-
Posted by: macdon1 on Jan 13, 2008 7:21 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: There Used to be Something Called Academic Freedom
Posted by: Prairie Waif
Comments are closed-
Posted by: penobscotdziekuje@yahoo.com on Jan 14, 2008 10:26 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Is this what attending college has come to? There's no privacy anywhere. Critics say well, if you have nothing to hide, you don't have to worry about cameras on campus.
Sorry, I do. It makes us all feel insecure in insecure times.
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Comments are closed-
Posted by: F_L_I_P_S_I_D_E on Jan 14, 2008 1:47 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It Is What It Is: Harvard's Terrorist Training Centers
Specifically, the author does not tell you why he is a good candidate for listing under domestic extremists.
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Comments are closed-
Posted by: hackbut on Jan 14, 2008 6:13 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
My thanks to the rational posters, often female, and as to the programmed, including the last poster, I suggest that it is not a good idea to go through life spewing the trash that some left wing (or right wing) professor has packed into your brain when you were too young to defend yourself.
I am probably the only proletarian in this discussion, coming from a family of factory workers and having been one myself and a union member. This is why I despise left-wing elitists, many of which seek to prescribe for the working class without any experience of living in it. I have, and I know that these people don't want their hard earned money used to finance crack-pot leftists schemes and I am that kind of of conservative.
Sorry for going off topic, but since when is the topic sacrosanct, and for those who complain of my being on a leftie site, a little broadening of the dialogue is good.
For whatever it is worth, I depise the Bush administration in many ways, but expect to despise any Democratic administration for its different excesses.
And for those who have tried to shout me down, I recognize an old communist tactic when I see it and it doesn't work on practical intellectuals like me. You folks are s-o-o-o out of date. The worst of you like the last poster should seek treatment.
As for others of you, you should consider whether the left wing drivel stuffed into you by some tenured useless know-it-all when you were too young to defend yourself intellectually is going to be good for either you or the country versus some intelligent middle of the road approach. We both know the answer to that.
I wish you all well and in the future let's try to dialogue rather than abuse, but as they say in the schoolyard, stick and stones ... .
I especially thank the rational, and for some of the others they have my sympathy if this is how they're going to go through life. Such a distortion of reality!
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» RE: Troll sign off - YAAWWNN!
Posted by: PaulC
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