Home
Archive
Newsletters
Video
Blogs
Discuss
About
Search
Donate
Advertise
Advertisement
Advertisement
Advertisement
Advertisement
Advertisement
Advertisement
  • AlterNetYour turn

Support AlterNet
Do you value the information you're getting from AlterNet? Please show your support with a tax-deductible donation.


Feedback
Tell us how we're doing.

Advertisement
Advertisement

Obama Can Win; If He Does, Let's Hope His Sunny Bipartisan Talk Is Just Rhetoric

By Joshua Holland, AlterNet. Posted January 7, 2008.


Flowery talk of hope and reconciliation has enormous appeal, but what we need is a fighter.

Share and save this post:

      

      

Share on Facebook       

AlterNet Social Networks:
follow us on twitter
find us on Facebook

More stories by Joshua Holland

Advertisement
Upcoming AlterNet stories on Digg

It's impossible to know if America is "ready to elect a black man" -- a generic "black man," that is -- but there's every reason to believe that it's more than ready to elect Barack Obama if he were to win the Dem nomination.

That's a real possibility -- Obama's sitting in a very strong spot going into New Hampshire. It looks like he's had an impressive "bounce" coming out of Iowa -- polls taken before the caucus still had Clinton with a lead in New Hampshire, but several polls conducted afterwards have Obama up by an average of seven points over Clinton, with Edwards trailing by 18.

What's more, Clinton and Edwards have little choice but to play into the Obama narrative. She's attacked from the right, and Edwards, who has criticized Obama from the left, now talks about being in a "conviction alliance" with Obama (he's trying to kill off Hillary and make it a two-person race), and those approaches allow Obama to sit back, talk about hope and change and look like the new kind of "post-partisan" candidate he claims to be, regardless of whether that claim is grounded in fact.

According to the conventional wisdom, if Obama does end up getting the nomination, his ethnicity and "exotic" middle name would be a major hurdle to winning in November. But that narrative only looks at one side of the coin.

There's been a relentless focus on the question of race. Is America ready? Would the South go for a (half) African American with a name that rhymes with "Osama"? Will people, fearful of being seen as a racist, tell pollsters they'd vote for a man of color and then go against him once they get into the confines of the voting booth? Will the Big Lie that he's a Muslim get e-mailed around to enough "low-information" voters that a whole gaggle of people freak out, get off the couch and head to the polls to beat him?

Yes to all of that -- one should never underestimate the role of race in American politics. But the analysis misses a larger dynamic, which is that anybody the Dems nominate will be Swift-Boated mercilessly, their strong points turned into weaknesses and their humanity reduced to angry caricatures. Al Gore became a liar, John Kerry, a decorated war hero, became a wimp and the next nominee will be similarly transformed into a hideous reflection of him- or herself. As Paul Waldman of MediaMatters put it, "If the Democrats were to dig up the corpse of George Patton and run him in an election, the Republicans would say he was soft on defense and hated America."

In building a base of voters who don't like partisan politics and who may be more likely to dismiss those attacks as being just more of the same Washington "bickering," Obama may end up being, to a degree, insulated from those kind of assaults in a way other, more "traditional" Democratic candidates aren't.

The focus on race also looks at just one side of the ledger -- at an unbalanced equation. Getting far less attention is that Obama has a story, a narrative, that has the potential to bring a whole group of people who haven't been politically engaged in the past into the political world for the first time.

The reason that side is getting short shrift is simple: the political discourse in America is shaped by white, middle aged male pundits who live in the burbs and tend to think of the American "voter" as a white, middle-aged white guy from the burbs. But America is chock-a-block with minorities and women and urbanites and liberals and young people, and most of those groups have voted at historically low levels because they never saw a national candidate who looked anything like them or who had shared their experiences in any meaningful way.

That's not to say that we won't be treated to a bevy of ugly messages if Obama ends up heading the ticket -- some coded messages, some explicit -- designed to appeal to America's uglier, racist side. We certainly will (and already have in the primaries). And if Obama were to become the nominee, he would almost certainly lose in deeply "red" states; in the Bible Belt. But those states aren't in play for Democrats anyway. In his book Whistling past Dixie, political scientist Tom Schaller showed that Democrats don't need those states to win nationally. The book caused a lot of controversy over the question of whether Dems should write off the deep South in the near term, but nobody could shake Schaller's numbers and argue that they couldn't. It's the "purple" states that matter in a national race, and, if Obama's win in Iowa was any indication, he has the potential to dominate in those races.

In Iowa, he blew away the field among voters who identified themselves as independents. He beat Clinton among unmarried voters, 43-24; with first-time caucus-goers, 41-29; among young people aged 17-29 he slaughtered his opponents, with four times Edwards' second place support. He beat Edwards among voters who prioritized the ability to "bring about change" by 51-20.

And I think it's difficult for white people, this author included, to understand just what his candidacy symbolizes for people of color. For a year we heard that the African American community was divided over whether he was "black enough" for them to fully embrace as one of their own. In the wake of Iowa, at least according to anecdotal evidence, black and brown America were profoundly moved to see Obama, this powerful African American orator, winning over cornfed Iowa.


Digg!    Share on facebook   submit to reddit    Bookmark on Delicious   Stumble This  

See more stories tagged with: obama, election08, iowa, nw hampshire primary

Joshua Holland is an AlterNet staff writer.

Liked this story? Get top stories in your inbox each week from AlterNet! Sign up now »

Advertisement
Advertisement

 

Comments Turn comments off sitewide Give us feedback »
Comments closed.
The comments for this story have been closed. Thank you to everyone who participated.
View:
Thank You
Posted by: pdxstudent on Jan 7, 2008 12:25 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
At least I feel like I've been appreciated. I think this is the key paragraph of the whole piece:

"But if Iowa showed anything, it's that it's not wise to underestimate Obama's approach. As every political observer knows, the themes a politician uses on the campaign trail often don't match his or her style of governance once elected. That's rarely considered a good thing, but in this case, people seeking real change should hope that Obama's feel-good language is just campaign spin."

You introduce a level on which to consider their representative, and it's a crucial first step. People need to start asking themselves not "can he win," but "if he wins, can we trust him to do what we want?" I still think this is a pathetic and painful way to make political decisions, to say nothing of how one lives their life, but it's better than where we started. The natural next and final level is getting most of the voters to by-pass the first two stages to just asking "Will s/he do what we want?"

I know you can't do it in every article, but some serious consideration not just of how bad the GOP has been and still is, but what the Democrats' complicity in otherwise GOP agendas means. True Democrats aren't fighting just the GOP and neoconservatism, but their own Party and its trend towards neoliberalism.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Thank You Posted by: peacefullaim
No
Posted by: g50 on Jan 7, 2008 1:26 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have learned a thing or two about the dynamic between the right and left.

The right wants the left to fight. That is because when they come to the fight, the left is charged up, pissed off, passionate, etc. The right, which understands how acting calm & self-assured makes people trust you, depends upon the comparison of the sober righty vs. the passionate lefty foaming at the mouth about how much of a jerk is the righty.

Basically, the right says things which are unreasonable in a reasonable way, while the left - and I am guilty as charged - says reasonable things in an unreasonable way. Think of how many times you have been frustrated by some block-headed conservative, only to begin talking about imperialism or genocide or patriarchy, etc. While what you say may be true, a lot of people see or hear such rhetoric and think "that is a crazy person".

No, this is wrong. We don't need a fighter. If we have a fighter, their politicians will be able to unify as an effective opposition because the lines between the parties will be clearly marked.

Someone who is a conciliator & who reaches out to all will put the Republicans in an extremely difficult position. They will be disorganized and frequently coopted because they will be deprived of their main weapon - the contrast between trustworthy normal person & rabid leftist.

You don't change the power of this caricature of "radical leftist" by fighting - you change it by making a new caricature, that of "reasonable leftist".

I know there is a lot of ambiguity in these ideas, and the notion of a fighter is very popular here. But we can create new & better patterns.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: No Posted by: peacefullaim
» RE: No Posted by: skydog
» Don't compromise Posted by: bthespoon
» WTF!!! Posted by: sausage
» RE: No Posted by: wonkywriter
» RE: No Posted by: greenthumb
» RE: No Posted by: tap17x
For more on that subject....
Posted by: Tom Degan on Jan 7, 2008 2:08 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Please, whe you're finished reading all of the great articles and comments on AlterNet, take a peak at what I wrote on the "Rant". Here's a link:
Making History in Iowa

Cheers!
Tom Degan
Goshen, NY

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Your Name Here
Posted by: HeKnew on Jan 7, 2008 3:11 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Jimmy Carter Lite

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Your Name Here
Posted by: HeKnew on Jan 7, 2008 3:11 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Jimmy Carter Lite

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

the sound of silence and an opportunity ignored by the top contenders
Posted by: Suzon on Jan 7, 2008 3:45 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I may be wrong, living in England as I do, but it seems to me that there's a very crucial issue which Obama, Edwards and Clinton have not recognized: home repossessions.

As I understand it, in 2002 Congress changed the bankruptcy laws, taking away the protection that once existed for home owners. Good for banks, bad for people. I believe that both Edwards and Clinton voted for it. Edwards can and should admit he was as wrong on that as on Iraq.

Banks and other corporations have different kinds of clout in the US and the UK. In the US, it's the donations to candidates. In the UK, it's the Queen's ministers doing whatever the Queen's supporters want. Over the last 30 years, the monarchy has corrupted the democracy. CEOs have been stuffing their pockets and corporations have engaged in shameful even criminal activities (Blackwater anyone?).

Legislation leaving American home owners without protection once previously enjoyed should be repudiated on the grounds that no respectable government should make life less secure--less just--for its citizens.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Really? Posted by: bookie
KAEL
Posted by: KAEL on Jan 7, 2008 3:46 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The chance of Obama taking on the left's agenda is about as high as his experience level for the job he so brashly seeks. At this point, he's way long on ambition and way short on experience for a cabinet level job, let alone US President. This country is not going to come together and he knows it. We will work together, but we will never come together. That is politics. Obama will probably be our next President but you can expect to be as disappointed as the rest of us, who recognize this race driven election for what it is. If Obama were all white, vs half white, he'd look like Romney, but with less experience.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Some things to ponder Posted by: Sissy
Agree
Posted by: davescott on Jan 7, 2008 4:01 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
From 2002 to 2006, GOP Senate majorities gave us a Senate Environment Chair (James Inhofe) who still calls global warming a hoax. And House Chairman Pombo, who pressed for giveaways of public lands. Not to mention an officical policy of only allowing sex education that is targeted towards my Republican grandmother. I do not need a candidate to "heal" my relationship with the party of Tom DeLay, or to end my "polarization." They are rats who need to be humanely driven back into their little rat holes.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: AMEN! Posted by: Sissy
"Change"
Posted by: Davidco on Jan 7, 2008 4:22 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There is no daylight between Obama and Clinton on the issues. Both are in the pockets of multinational capital, AIPAC and other lobbies. Neither would roll back unconstitutional accumulations of power by the "unitary executive" or reverse imperialistic use of American troops.

The establishment would love us to believe that election of a black or a woman represents some kind of substantive change. In reality, both would spend the rest of their terms studiously avoiding the interests of blacks and women respectively to show their 'post partisan' impartiality.

Perhaps a landslide victory would free some "inner" Obama who was lost decades ago. For the moment, he cannot even make false promises about what this country really needs.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Will Obama's message of "Hope" translate into "Action"? One can only hope.
Posted by: nochicagoboys on Jan 7, 2008 4:54 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Mr. Holland's following paragraph rang true with me:

"That's because progressives' best hope with Barack Obama would be that he use his message of 'hope' and reconciliation to bring millions of new voters into the process for the first time, gather an enormous amount of political capital, and then turn around, take off the gloves and shove that mandate right down the GOP's throat."

If, as the author writes, this is the ultimate strategy of the Obama drive for the presidency, I think it's feasible. If it's not, and he's just pandering to human emotion in order to garner votes, I'm afraid we're in for more of the same. As John Edwards said, and Mr. Holland cited in his excellent article, "I don't believe you can sit around a table with the drug companies, the insurance companies or the oil corporations, negotiate with them - and then hope they'll just voluntarily give their power away. You can't nice them to death - it doesn't work."

Well, there it is, the message of "hope", that the good Senator wants us to follow and believe. Let's "hope", if elected, a President Obama can turn hope into action -- because the moneyed elite will not bow-down to "hope". I'm sure of that.

Best of luck, to everyone, in 2008. I'm afraid we'll need more of that, than hope.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

The Audacity of False Hope
Posted by: bthespoon on Jan 7, 2008 6:00 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As small business owners whose very lives depend upon real (not fake) health care reform, we have done our research on this issue (please trust us). Obama represents the Audacity of False Hope on health care. Specifically, his plan says health insurers would have to "JUSTIFY" charging large premium differences...as if financial discrimination against people when they are sick and at their most vulnerable is justifiable at all. That's all the insurers need to keep us at their mercy, and THEY HAVE NONE. With friends like this who needs enemies? Other legislation he supports says the rest of us will have access to the same health care plan as he and other members of Congress do "except for the way (we) are rated" (sigh). He leaves that part out, but I'm pretty sure he knows it's in there, and neglects to mention that federal employee plans cost more than the $12,100/year national average. I'm pretty sure Obama knows that too. Hillary's plan says insurance companies will be prohibited from charging "large" premium differences based on "modified" community rating, whatever that means, but do understand it is the only loophole health insurance companies need. SHAME on them. Both Obama and Clinton swear they will NOT support Single Payer (Single Pool*) and insist profit-driven health insurance middlemen must be part of any solution. (*I prefer framing it as Single Pool, using the consumer rather than administrative picture. Single Payer means Single Pool.) John Edwards's plan says insurers will have to charge "fair" premiums, which admittedly is a bit wishy-washy too, but at least his rhetoric says that he believes Single Payer (Single Pool) is obviously the best way to go, that the inordinate greed of insurance companies is the main part of the problem (which it is), and if forced to work on a level playing field, health insurers will lose (which they will). But HERE IS THE IMPORTANT PART: Edwards is the only one of the top three that even wants to create a level playing field with REAL (not fake) community rating and guaranteed issue. The difference is Edwards "gets" what needs to be done while Obama and Clinton don't. Both (and all the Republicans running) want us to believe that the problem is the solution when it isn't. American lives and the future of our economy depend upon voters not being too busy to notice or care about the devil in their details. Edwards is the only viable candidate running for President who is even headed in the right direction. All the others are guilty of deceptively misleading voters on real health care reform, and we simply cannot afford to be misled any longer.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Ever hear of paragraphs? Posted by: cjohnson44
» RE: The Audacity of False Hope Posted by: liblady2008
Obama preaches "CHANGE". Do people really want it??
Posted by: xvictor on Jan 7, 2008 6:06 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Obama talks the need for "change" with the folks and they all resoundingly agree that change is desired. But do people really want change?? Do they know what change is??? Are they prepared to accept the process necessary to affect change??

While change may likely be beneficial in the long run, we are looking at folks who desire immediate gratification. They want it overnight. And they don't like change with pain, bother, and fuss. But you can't have change without some pain or sweat.

Change involves pain and inconvenience and people in the country will not be comfortable in doing away established practices and habits that change will obviously affect. Such as belt-tightening, tax raising, removing excess government programs (or even doing away with some "successful" gov't programs), doing away with certain conveniences, taking this instead of that, etc.

There are folks who want to believe that an omelet can be had without breaking the eggs. Guess what? lots of eggs have to be broken to reach that omelet goal. Surprise! Surprise!

So after folks really learn what "change" entails it's likely they will not accept it. They will not accept Obama. Quite frankly, Obama himself may not really know what change is. Good-intentioned folks will return to the status quo with the concept of change existing only in their minds.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Pierre
Posted by: Progbiz on Jan 7, 2008 6:20 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It strikes me that much of the discussion has focused too much on winning the presidential race. That is really important of course. The Obama phenomenon of "hope" (rather than change) has the substantive potential of rallying enough centrist republicans as well as independents so that the Democrats can win the 60 Senate seats we need to effect real change. The alignment of interest and reduction in discord can take place within Congress, the extreme right will be left with limited power and Obamacrats can then lead us into a reasonable discussion and action on healing all of the wounds we have inflicted on our selves and the world.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Obama represents false hope Posted by: bthespoon
We do not need conflict but to reach common ground
Posted by: EncinoM on Jan 7, 2008 6:58 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
After more then 10 years of discord, one of the attractions of Obama, is the chance to be the uniter that Bush claimed he was. Politics has been dominated by the extremes for to long. There is no longer debate, but shouting matches and games of one-upmanship.

For this country to advance we need a leader for through we may at times disagree with, we can respectfully disagree and understand he is doing what he believes is best.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» What if honesty and justice... Posted by: bthespoon
» We need to reach common ground Posted by: ProgressiveManiac
WAKE UP left wingers and democrats!
Posted by: Kryptman40k on Jan 7, 2008 7:06 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Obama is CFR.
Obama voted for the war in Iraq.
Obama talks about bombing Iran.
Obama voted for the US patriot act.
Obama's wife is on the board of directors for CFR.

Obama will NOT end the wars and talks about keeping our country on the offensive.

Wake up and stop supporting the "left wing" because you think they support you.

Nancy pelosi knew about the torture tapes and did nothing. Harry Reid supports abortion.

Ron Paul is the only true peace candidate and wants to cripple the military industrial complex. You have a rare chance to actually DO something to change our country with Ron Paul. No democrat will bring change like he will.

Ron Paul is the only person running for president who is not CFR!!!!

Read and learn Plz.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Please don't be distracted Posted by: bthespoon
» RE: Please don't be distracted Posted by: Kryptman40k
» RE: Please don't be distracted Posted by: peacefullaim
Quick comments
Posted by: anothername on Jan 7, 2008 7:21 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is being written quickly, so I’m not posting the links (I know! How unbloggish of me!)

The National Council of state legislatures released a report in 2006 on term limits. It notes that term limits force legislatures to become aggressive from the start, instead of taking time to learn how (a cooperative) system works. In addition, the staff turns off at a higher rate, too, which reduces opportunities to build long-term relationships across the aisles. This lack of cooperation did not spring up in a vacuum or overnight.

BlogHer created a list of 12 questions that women want the candidates to answer; but the candidates are ignoring this female version of the DailyKos.

Barack Obama would never have been asked to run for office if Hillary Clinton had not had the backing of the old Democratic Leadership Council. If the anti-Clinton group ran just another white man, Clinton would have won. Obama is being used as much as he is using people. Race has to be mentioned just because we have not had a president other than white men, but the vast majority of people are more interested in the Ivy League, smooth talking, tall organizer.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

who support GBLT rights who get our votes
Posted by: brucerise on Jan 7, 2008 7:38 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Being Gay, Bi Wrong?
http://www.findbilover.com

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Obama as "useful idiot?"
Posted by: realist on Jan 7, 2008 7:47 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So you're saying Obama should campaign on hope, but jettison that theme at the White House door and cram his real one-sided agenda up the wazoos of the other side?

That sounds eerily like George W. Bush's agenda in 2000. Look where it got us. Now you want progressives to do the same thing? Gee, I can't imagine why the American people are so cynical.

It just proves my point that the extremes on both ends of the spectrum have both gone so far around the bend that they're meeting each other on the other side. That's how we got neo-cons - conservatives who justify the use of big government powers to invade Iraq and take away our civil rights.

Your prescription would relegate Obama to the status of "useful idiot." That's how the Dems tried to treat Bill Clinton when he first took office; they promptly lost both houses of Congress, and left Clinton to fend for himself. The same thing eventually happened with Bush. Obama should take note.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

We're still looking backwards
Posted by: ReallyBearish on Jan 7, 2008 7:49 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The real question here is what the economy looks like as we approach the election. It doesn't look pretty.

We're getting a youth vote (that normally doesn't vote) because of economic threats. This is going to drown out the single social issue voters. The Republicans can try to hang on to that sliver as if it will save them. It won't.

Swift Boat away. It will fail. The real solution to the Right's problem is to rig the election to stop a Dem victory. They could do that with a 3rd party candidate, or they could just cancel the elections all together. I'd consider that more likely.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Obama is a joke.
Posted by: cjohnson44 on Jan 7, 2008 8:09 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This guy is only out to further his own standing. He's a climber who'll says nothing and takes no position that will hurt his chances to further his self interest. His Iraq war vote was a joke - it was no risk to him, and his "not present" votes as Senator on every controversial issues are an outrage.

This jerk will keep riding the race card to go as far as he can.

Let's get a REAL fighter and FDR Democrat in there - let's get JOHN EDWARDS.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Obama is a joke. Posted by: tclaverdure
» RE: Obama is a joke. Posted by: dkeithley
Is that the problem now?
Posted by: MartyF7 on Jan 7, 2008 8:16 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Who out there thinks that the reason we can't solve Social Security Underfunding, Medical Care Problems, the Immigration Mess or the Income Tax situation is that the two sides aren't fighting hard enough? The opposite is true. We need to come together to find a solution that will improve the country, even though it's not the solution that either side started out with.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Is that the problem now? Posted by: anothername
He's a fighter, too
Posted by: Chickensh*tEagle on Jan 7, 2008 8:33 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I don't have time to read through all the comments in this threads, so apologies if someone else has posted this. But please read it all.

Obama won over legislators to bring change to Illinois

By CHARLES PETERS, The Washington Post
January 07. 2008 12:25AM

People who complain that Barack Obama lacks experience must be unaware of his legislative achievements. One reason these accomplishments are unfamiliar is that the news media have not devoted enough attention to Obama's bills and the effort required to pass them, ignoring impressive, hard evidence of his character and ability.

Since most of Obama's legislation was enacted in Illinois, most of the evidence is found there - and it has been largely ignored by the media in a kind of Washington snobbery that assumes state legislatures are not to be taken seriously.... [Full column at the link.]

That said, I'm voting for Kucinich. He's a fighter, too.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» I live in Illinois Posted by: bthespoon
» Kucinich is the REAL fighter Posted by: profedwards
» I'm still standing with kucinich Posted by: hellofriends
change?---define it!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by: jwpa13 on Jan 7, 2008 9:24 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I keep hearing the "C" word thrown about by Mr. Obama, Mrs. Clinton and Mr. Edwards. None of these candidates define what they mean by “change”. We have seen much BAD “change” in the US in the past several years . “Change” has come to our tax code, our bankruptcy laws, and in laws, like the “Patriot Act,” that restrict our constitutional safeguards. NONE of those changes were good for “we the people.”

Which “Top 3” Dem has indicated he/she will roll back these BAD “changes?”

“CHANGE” is a bogus word Unless it is followed by such words as ; …“in our lobbying and campaign finance laws to keep big money from dominating our elected officials” ; …“to lower taxes on the middle class”; …“to bring our troops home from Iraq, Afghanistan, most of and the world to bring an end American imperialism”; (and most importantly) …“to repeal NAFTA and most “free trade laws” so jobs can begin to flow back into the US.

So far only Mr. Kusinich, and to some degree Mr. Dodd, are willing to define the word "CHANGE".

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Harvard instead of Yale Posted by: anothername
Learn from UK's mistakes
Posted by: hilaryuk on Jan 7, 2008 9:29 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Just over a decade ago the UK thought it was voting for change and put Tony Blair and New Labour into power. He too preached a non-partisan and healing approach. I was never convinced and was therefore not surprised as the next ten years were characterised by a continuation of right wing policies supposedly ameliorated by softer, kinder, nicer language. Because the American liberal left is so desperate for change, you risk falling into a similar trap.

The problems of Western democracy are so fundamental and ultimately damaging that they cannot be solved by just being nice, handsome, personable and different in the most ideologically trivial way possible - skin colour. Too often, comments on this site are about how nice or nasty a candidate is; but you may find it more constructive to listen to the words and policies they enunciate.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Learn from UK's mistakes Posted by: johnclark
Talking the talk ain't walking the walk.
Posted by: Sojourner on Jan 7, 2008 9:56 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
My "hope" is that Hillary and Barack can keep from killing each other. A little blood on the floor is a good thing; no body blows and no limb removal, however.

I like Hillary's approach of naming the difference between talking change and making change.

The evidence from Iowa suggests that the new voters we needed to get Gore and Kerry elected might finally be showing up where they belong--in the Demo party.

Keeping our eye on the prize: thank you, Holland.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

What I see is what I get
Posted by: solrev on Jan 7, 2008 10:08 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The message of change resonated in Iowa and every body, demon and repuk is jumping on the bandwagon. The only candidates that represented any kind of change; Kucinich and Paul are kaput. The day will come when the candidate for change will follow the foreign policy of Paul and the domestic policy of Kucinich and that candidate will get 70% of the vote. That time is not yet. What amazes me is how gullible voters are. Obama another uniter, haven’t you people had enough of the last one. We do not need a uniter we need a divider. Edwards says we need to take on the puppet masters, wrong we need to wage war with the puppets. A divider who will separate the wheat from the chaff in that nest of fork tongue vipers called congress. Can you imagine a member of congress past or present willing to wage that war? A woman or a half-black man would be better for history’s sake but do not believe that the dogs of war have been leashed. I sure would not want to be President for the next four years losing is a blessing. It is time to pay the piper.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Critical Thinker
Posted by: dayenta on Jan 7, 2008 10:19 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Mr. Holland, you should be out in the schools teaching Critical Thinking 101. I have not read an article by you that was not well-thought-out and reasoned, not to mention that you have an engaging writing style.
Thanks!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Critical Thinker Posted by: Joshua Holland
While many Republicans have become Neo-Rad-Cons
Posted by: bthespoon on Jan 7, 2008 10:22 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...many Democrats have come to represent what Republicans once stood for (corporations before people). Both Clinton and Obama are more Republican than most Republicans used to be. The heart and soul of the Democratic Party is at stake, and if Hillary and Barak are all that it offers voters, then the left wing and liberalism in America is in deep deep doo doo. In fact it may be history.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

My Second Comment, or, Why This Message is Still Anti-Democratic
Posted by: pdxstudent on Jan 7, 2008 10:23 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"As every political observer knows, the themes a politician uses on the campaign trail often don't match his or her style of governance once elected. That's rarely considered a good thing, but in this case, people seeking real change should hope that Obama's feel-good language is just campaign spin."

I think this quickly requires the most wishful thinking in the world to turn into what you want it to be---i.e. a snowball's chance in hell of Obama being the progressive we want and need. Considered in a process of political thinking, it's ideological thinking as much as I've pointed out elsewhere. There is still something anti-democratic about the notion that we should vote "electability" hoping that it comes with the bonus prize of getting a president that does what we want too.

Something is clear about so-called progressives and liberals who get behind the neoliberals: they don't want change, but merely the presidency.

They may convince themselves with the very wishful thinking you prescribe. This will come to no good though, because there has yet to be (nor will there ever be) a patently neoliberal, self-proclaimed bi/post-partisan politician who has kept enough of a core of progressive vitality to trick the electorate into shooting themselves in the foot just so s/he can come to save them. As yet, there is no reason to believe this will happen, only as you put it, "hope." I sure as hell ain't hoping for the president I want, I'm being an active part of getting one by supporting Dennis Kucinich.

The Democratic Party is turning into the Commodity Party, and people don't buy commodities because they are quality products, but because they are crafted to be consumable--i.e. cheap and widely distributed. Likewise, people aren't buying Obama or Clinton or even Edwards for what they think is behind the candidates backs, for some chewy center of progressive authenticity obscured by a rhetorical candy coating. No, people are buying these candidates precisely for what they are peddling: electability and neoliberalism.

So, the rhetoric/substance distinction really belongs to those who have begun to contemplate how it's all rhetoric, but who continue to hold out ever less tenable hope that there is really something there, even if it won't show up until after they are elected (would you buy something before knowing what it was?) Hopefully by the time they make it to the voting booth, they will have realized how the fantasy goes straight to the core, and will finally vote in their progressive interests for Dennis Kucinich. If not, as Dennis has reminded us, they get what they deserve.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

As Empty Promises For The Future Are Being Made...
Posted by: dover23 on Jan 7, 2008 10:27 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
by these poseurs (including the smooth-talking one)...

the Democrat "mandated" legislature is doing nada, nil, nothing. It's amusing to hear talk of change from these Dems running for prez. The ultimate winner will be nothing more than the fall guy (or fall gal) for the collapsed economy over the next few years.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

"Rhymes with Osama?"
Posted by: Sushi on Jan 7, 2008 10:55 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Would the South go for a (half) African American with a name that rhymes with "Osama"? Exotic middle name?

What is this...high school? Apparently we Americans are being treated as if we have not moved beyond teenage popularity contests, taunts and whispers. What's next? "He/she smells funny." "Your mom wears army boots." "He's wearing yellow and green on Tuesdays...that means he's queer."

Grow the fuck up, folks. The future of the country hangs in the balance here. We've got a choice of more-of-the-same, stuck-in-a)-rut policies or moving into the 21st Century where we might all have some hope of solving all the messes we've created.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: "Rhymes with Osama?" Posted by: yellow
One can be bipartisan and still fight the neocons
Posted by: Hans B on Jan 7, 2008 10:56 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When Obama speaks of bipartisanship, I don't think he means lying down for the bomb-Iran crazies. The Republican Party may at present be dominated by nasty war, hate and fear-mongers, but that doesn't mean that's all there is. Look at people like Chuck Hagel. It may be possible, as Obama suggests, to restore constitutional values with the help of at least some Republicans - especially the small-government ones, but also environmentally conscious ones like McCain.

The question whether Obama has the courage to face down the neocons has already been answered: like Al Gore, he publicly opposed the Iraq war (in one of his most brilliant speeches ever) back in the days when that was called treason. Clinton and Edwards did not have that courage, and it seems rather strange to now expect a more principled stance from them than from Obama.

I'm no Obama fan but I do agree with him that repairing the harm Bush has done requires reaching beyond party lines, the more so since the Democratic Party lacks the spine to do it alone, even with a majority in Congress. I don't think that means he's willing to compromise on principle.

And there's a long-term interest involved, too. A partisan approach, no matter how victorious in the short term, will not solve anything if the following President is a neocon again. There is potential for weaning some, perhaps many, Republicans away from the fascist tendencies which have taken over their party, and thereby destroying the neocon threat not just for four years but for good. Obama's bet seems to be that many Republicans are sick of their insane leadership. I think and hope he's right.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: re Posted by: Hans B
Thanx for the fair & balanced article
Posted by: johnclark on Jan 7, 2008 11:20 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It makes me feel even badder for having attacked you & Alternet for the Edwards piece. I see now just how close our thinking really is on the subject. I supported him early but my friends convinced me on Obama. Even those who never vote. And I guess that's why I have hope this time.

I haven't done work for a Democratic presidential candidate since 1988. Back then, we lived in DC (& were Statehood Party) but had to do our registration work in Maryland. The Mayor was too afraid of the Rainbow. It was moderate Democrats that gave George's daddy the election because they didn't accept Jessie's concession speech at the convention. They would rather lose the presidency than to have too much Rainbow and be challenged next time.

When we moved to Maryland we saw what our work did --- Young Turks beating machine politicians, old guard whites moving east as we moved in, and progressive politics on the rise.

For instance, my three delegates and senator are ALL pro-marriage (progressive enough for you?). The only set back we had in years was when a Kennedy was put up for governor. And she lost because they would not allow the base to be organized. We couldn't even get a yard sign out of her (& a fight me & my partner didn't need to have about putting it up)!

For me, the Obama campaign is about raising this insurgency in a way that the DLC and their ilk cannot stop. In Maryland, the real election next month will be the one in the 4th Congressional district next door to us --- Donna Edwards vs Al Wynn. In 2010, the new voters will help us force Hoyer to retire in the other Congressional district next door (and there are already good Donna Edwards like candidates who can beat him). And yes, our districts are so Gerrymandered that we border two plus DC.

And that is why I'm thinking about actively working for Barack. The more people that vote, the better they vote. That's why I have faith in the democratic system, even though I have little faith in the Democratic party.

And Joshua, you are right that some of the comments posts come straight from the campaigns (or campains as I saw someone say today). When I formally start working for Obama (even though he's only pro-civil unions), I will disclose.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

I hope Obama means what he says
Posted by: Raybo on Jan 7, 2008 11:33 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I hope Obama's talk is not just rhetoric. The us versus them mindset is a hindrance to lasting and meaningful change. Bucky Fuller put it this way, "You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete." I hope whoever wins "takes on" the corporations, but if he or she does it, honey will work better than vinegar. We need statesmanship, diplomacy, in all our leaders do. And, that means marginalizing no group.

Ray Teurfs

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

This comment has been removed from the site due to non-compliance with AlterNet's community policies.
Obama Haterz
Posted by: Skills83 on Jan 7, 2008 1:45 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There's a lot of Obama haterade being drunk here.

But I do welcome those who bring thoughtful and insiteful criticisms to his candidacy.

I think if you look at Clinton and Obama, its much easier for Obama to suddenly start hashing out policy issues than it is for Clinton to suddenly get charisma and leadership skills.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Obama Haterz Posted by: left_libertarian
Grow A Spine Democrats: Impeach Bush & Cheney
Posted by: left_libertarian on Jan 7, 2008 2:31 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They are criminals and deserve hard jail time.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Obama is a fighter...
Posted by: DorothyNed on Jan 7, 2008 3:56 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Obama is a fighter without fighting. He knows how to fight without causing a fight. Obama has proven that he can take on the establishment and win...see what he has done in Illinois. He is biracial therefore, he had to learn to stand up against all odds to be accepted. He has done that without fighting and without being bitter.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

a little bit of Democratic thinking
Posted by: anothername on Jan 7, 2008 4:00 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
On my way home from the library I caught part of NPR’s evening newscast. One woman said she was going for Obama because she hears all these bad things on the news, but Obama gives her goosebumps and makes her think of Kennedy. Another woman put together a spread sheet on where the candidates of both parties stand on issues and surprised herself by deciding on Clinton.

I was at the library to look at newspapers. The Iowa caucus entrance poll reported in the New York Times and conducted by the National Election Pool (ABC, CBS, CNN, FOX, NBC, et al.) and polling organizations showed why the Republicans keep winning. The poll was conducted at 40 Dem caucuses and at 40 Rep caucuses with a +/-4% margin of error. The questions were not identical, but close. The top trait in a Republican candidate? Shares my values. The top trait in a Democratic candidate? Change.

Come November, those 43% of Republicans who chose a candidate who shares their values, followed by the 33% who say saying what he believes is an important candidate trait, are going to be a whole lot more excited about going to the polls and supporting their candidate than will the Democrats who (51%) just want change. Cares about me came in at 19%. As I’ve posted elsewhere on AlterNet, the fact that none of the candidates care that I want recycling, public transportation, decent jobs that don’t consume my life, and public participation over constant consumer spending makes it likely I will not care about voting for those candidates.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Edwards Over Obama for the Win
Posted by: representativepress on Jan 7, 2008 4:15 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Arictle Writer Is So Full Of Crap
Posted by: Joe on Jan 7, 2008 4:33 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As far as the comment about what Obama means to African American have you actually talked to any???????????????? You're idea of what African Americans feel about Obama is just your impression what you think African Americans should feel about Obama. I don't know if you liberals get it but there ARE MANY DIVERSIFIED OPINIONS AMONG AFRICAN AMERICANS.

But then again, what do i know. Liberals always know what's best, correct, and what is reality.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Obama = Corporate Fascist Double-Talker NOT a "Fighter"
Posted by: LookOut on Jan 7, 2008 4:45 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is evident from his corporate monopoly voting record in support of predatory Big Banking and for criminal sham "war on terror" funding at the genocide that is Iraq. Same for Edwards.

Kucinich (blacked out by corporate Big Media) is the only "fighter" Dem left that comes close to being a real candidate for the people.

It's truly amazing how easily Americans can be bought by feel-good speeches and empty slogans. Obama is about as real as a department store Santa Claus on a Big Oil rig.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Can Obama Win???
Posted by: TruthBeTold on Jan 7, 2008 6:02 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I was born and raised in the south, still visit the south and have relatives in several southern states and so I have an excellent understanding of the southern white/female* thinking process.

The same bigoted uninformed people who voted against Harold Ford will also vote against Obama. And do to Obama what was done to Harold Ford. For the simple reason that he is black.

One other thing that will go against Obama and any other Democrat running for president are the phoney liberals who, having never accomplished a single significant thing in their lives, constantly put down Obama, Hillary, Edwards or anyone else who has achieved sotmething in their lives. It almost seems as if these people get their talking points from the reich-wing.

Case in point, listen to SIRIUS radio channel 146 to the two so-called talk show hosts (one male/one female) out of New York. One calls Obama "macaroon", among other things and the other makes statements like "I looked into his eyes and they were empty" and "perhaps he sold his soul to the devil". And these are the nice thing said. This stuff goes on daily. Of course they attract like minded callers.

Add to this the Faux News followers who only know what they hear on Faux News and the Trent Lott, Karl Rove, Ann Coulter, Michael Savage types.

Are there enough informed and critical thinking voters in this country who could neutralize the nut jobs?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Can Obama Win??? Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Can Obama Win??? Posted by: aonghus36
I was with Dennis in 04
Posted by: fifthworld on Jan 7, 2008 6:17 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
but short of Edwards or Ron Paul - which I guess is a foregone conclusion - I'll probably write in Homer Simpson. These "frontrunner" windbags, H. and B. that is, are full of it and insincere. And then of course, the whole country is still so bloody gullible, "hopeful" for CHANGE and bla bla bla. Given a "fair election", or not, we'll get who we deserve.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Emotional Level
Posted by: The Winch on Jan 7, 2008 6:19 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Good article. I just have one significant point of disagreement.

"Obama -- and, to a degree, Edwards -- both understand the importance of reaching out to voters on an emotional, "gut" level."

You should reverse the names.

People fall into four basic categories of problem solvers. They either prefer to solve problems using:
Motivation
Organization
Information
or Action

Obama prefer using ideas. He is much more pensive, philosophical, preferring to think before responding. He's a classic ENTP (one of the Myer's Briggs type). He has learned the skills of being an emotional motivator, but that's not what comes to him spontaneously.

This contrasts with Edwards who prefers motivation as his primary problem solving tactic. FWIW, Hillary prefers organization and "W" prefers action.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Hey! All you Ronettes! Listen up!
Posted by: Longdream on Jan 7, 2008 6:44 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Ron Paul is pretty much anathema to progressive values.

Anyone who listens and reads with any degree of discernment, and anyone who's looked at his voting record knows that very well.

The more you Ronettes take over every discussion with your sweaty, urgent semanticizing and hula-dancing with the facts, the worse your candidate looks.

We can read. We understand English. Ron Paul isn't fooling anybody, and you all look like bovine idjits.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Hey! Obama Is Just Another Imperialist Posted by: left_libertarian
Obama is The Man
Posted by: Blink on Jan 7, 2008 7:22 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
He is IT. He is The Man. He is an amalgam of JFK and RWR in a Sidney Poitier personna. Who cares if he has no "establishment" credentials? He looks Presidential, talks Presidential, and, I am convinced, will make world leaders swoon. Osama will probably give himself up voluntarily to this man called Obama. He will bring this country together and unite us with a common cause and common vision. He will lead us to the Promised Land.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» I think he was being sarcastic Posted by: hellofriends
Well, Good, If we can elect a black president, maybe we
Posted by: hellofriends on Jan 7, 2008 10:24 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
can elect a short president?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Two types of fighters
Posted by: C-Dawg Blake on Jan 8, 2008 5:40 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Joshua Holland hits the right note in so many ways. My belief is that Obama is a fighter--the type that looks someone in the eye and smiles before he takes them down. A boxer that says, "I'll let you hit me a few times--I'll give you a few, but you will end on your back."

Here's another comparison: U.S. bravado v. Brit pluck. In this country, despite all the tough talk, someone blows himself up in a subway here and we'll close down mass transit systems, appoint a task force, crumble economically, cave in to fear, and lash out mindlessly. The Brits? When it actually happened they were riding the rails the next day. They don't talk tough; they are tough.

That's Obama. He's a community organizer and civil rights lawyer. Yeah, he votes to give adequate protection to military personnel for an occupation he despises. He makes concessions. But he will get us out responsibly, acknowledging that surprises are ahead. He was the first who said he would talk with enemies. He showed up on the doorstep of Detroit when he was down by ten points in Iowa and told a crowd of silent automakers they need to get their act together. He's the one who introduced legislation three months ago to retard W.'s asinine designs for attacking Iran (still the biggest single issue in the world, though virtually nobody talks about it here).

I'm not concerned about Obama's toughness. He won't crack. And the "experience" thing is laughable, because the only benefit to experience is good judgment, which Obama has. He gets it on the electorate, obviously. After winning the nomination he can grab Edwards for V.P. and, smiling all the way, together they can go after the bastards.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

lostgirl00
Posted by: lostgirl00 on Jan 8, 2008 8:49 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You know, I think that it's a little concerning to hope that one of "our" candidates ends up flip-flopping by saying one thing but ultimately doing the opposite. It seems that one of the main things fueling Obama's movement is about the hope that we can find ways to come together over our similarities. Not as Republicans vs Democrats or Liberals vs Conservatives, but as US-Americans who share many values. Of course we should keep fighting those who control the Republican party (not to mention the Democratic party, ahem), but not take up arms against our Repub-voting neighbors.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: lostgirl00 Posted by: EdinIowa
Obama: A Smooth Talking Imperialist
Posted by: left_libertarian on Jan 12, 2008 3:13 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Obama:
Hopes to remove all troops from Iraq by 2013, but no pledge

Q: Gen. Petraeus and Pres. Bush indicated that in January 2009, there will be 100,000 troops in Iraq. What do you do?

A: I hope and will work diligently in the Senate to bring an end to this war before I take office. And it is very important at this stage, understanding how badly the president's strategy has failed, that we not vote for funding without some timetable for this war. If there are still large troop presences in when I take office, then

Q: Will you pledge that by January 2013, the end of your first term, there will be no US troops in Iraq?

A: I think it's hard to project four years from now, and I think it would be irresponsible. We don't know what contingency will be out there. I believe that we should have all our troops out by 2013, but I don't want to make promises, not knowing what the situation's going to be three or four years out.

Source: 2007 Democratic primary debate at Dartmouth College Sep 26, 2007

http://tinyurl.com/yfhqps

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]