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Only One Top Dem Will End Iraq Occupation

By Joshua Holland, AlterNet. Posted January 3, 2008.


The rhetoric sounds much the same, but there are real differences in policy.
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According to the National Journal, the Democratic candidates' "disputes over issues have almost completely evaporated in the campaign's final days." The leading Dems, according to the Journal, are beating each other up over who has the most effective "leadership style" or similar abstractions. The notion that the top candidates are virtually identical on the issues and vary only in "tone" -- with Clinton the voice of experience and pragmatism, Obama the feel-good "uniter" who can heal a divided country and John Edwards the aggressive economic populist -- has become, to some degree, the conventional wisdom of campaign 2008.

But, as is often the case, it's also simply wrong.

While it's true that the big three have similar stances on a number of issues, on Iraq -- the one that Democrats and swing voters say is either their top concern, or No. 2 after the economy -- the top candidates' differences couldn't be more significant. In fact, only John Edwards among the top three Dems would effectively end the occupation of Iraq within a year of taking office.

All three top candidates certainly sound like they'd end it. In a Sept. 26 debate, Barack Obama said that if elected, "the first thing" he would do is "initiate a phased redeployment." "Military personnel," he continued, "indicate we can get one brigade to two brigades out per month. I would immediately begin that process. We would get combat troops out of Iraq."

Hillary Clinton also says she favors ending the war in Iraq, "not next year, not next month -- but today." The right strategy in Iraq, she said, is to "start bringing home America's troops now." Just like Barack Obama, "one of Hillary's first official actions" in office, according to her campaign website, would be "to convene the Joint Chiefs of Staff, her secretary of defense, and her National Security Council" and "direct them to draw up a clear, viable plan to bring our troops home starting" within the first 60 days after her inauguration.

Sadly, both candidates are trying to get away with a bit of sleight-of-hand: Both are attempting to confuse a troop draw-down (or, in Clinton's case, appointing a commission to plan one) with an end to the occupation of Iraq. In reality, the two are as different as night and day.

Both Clinton and Obama have bought into the dangerous idea that the U.S. must maintain forces in Iraq to protect U.S. bases -- yes, they're actually saying that we need to leave soldiers to guard the bases that the U.S. built to house the troops occupying Iraq -- to fight "al Qaeda in Iraq," and to help train Iraqi forces. Obama has said that he envisions a less expansive mission than Clinton does, and would contemplate basing some of his "residual forces" outside the country. Both of the candidates are reluctant to say exactly how many troops would be needed to accomplish the job, but independent estimates range from at least 20,000 to as many as 75,000 soldiers. John Edwards stated the obvious when he told the New York Times: "To me, that is a continuation of the occupation of Iraq."


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See more stories tagged with: kucinich, richardson, iraq, clinton, obama, edwards, election09

Joshua Holland is an AlterNet staff writer.

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I take this article means Alternet for Edwards
Posted by: johnclark on Jan 3, 2008 12:20 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I had to wonder why the hit piece on Obama yesterday. After all, it was written by someone with little credentials. Now this. Now lets look at what each say.

From the Obama web site:
Bringing Our Troops Home
Obama will immediately begin to remove our troops from Iraq. He will remove one to two combat brigades each month, and have all of our combat brigades out of Iraq within 16 months. Obama will make it clear that we will not build any permanent bases in Iraq. He will keep some troops in Iraq to protect our embassy and diplomats; if al Qaeda attempts to build a base within Iraq, he will keep troops in Iraq or elsewhere in the region to carry out targeted strikes on al Qaeda.

From the Edwards site:
Withdraw Combat Troops within Nine to Ten Months
Edwards believes we should completely withdraw all combat troops from Iraq within nine to ten months and prohibit permanent U.S. military bases in Iraq. After withdrawal, we should retain sufficient forces in Quick Reaction Forces located outside Iraq, in friendly countries like Kuwait, to prevent an Al Qaeda safe haven, a genocide, or regional spillover of a civil war.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Typical Posted by: Markson
» RE: Typical Posted by: g50
» RE: Typical Posted by: puddytat
» RE: Typical Posted by: g50
» RE: Corporations Responsioble? Posted by: edgar_michel
» RE: Typical Posted by: spiderweb
» Obama: We will not build any Posted by: WhuThe?!?
» RE: Obama: We will not build any Posted by: edgar_michel
» What I DO like about Edwards Posted by: rjgwood
» RE: What I DO like about Edwards Posted by: nochicagoboys
» RE: What I DO like about Edwards Posted by: edgar_michel
...and I'm the Easter Bunny
Posted by: kepstein7777 on Jan 3, 2008 2:10 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Didn't Edwards vote for the war in the first place? And the Patriot Act?

These clowns can say anything they want right now, and wiggle out of it later. Or they can wait the ten minutes it takes for the public to forget what they said. Or they can be like GWB and do whatever the hell they want, regardless of what they said five minutes ago.

But if you want to go based on what they say--just for fun--Ron Paul says he's going to bring all the troops home from all our bases around the world--not just Iraq--and stop being the world's policeman altogether. No one in their right mind would believe him, but if we're comparing stories, he tells the best one.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: on Paul is a scary "libertarian", Posted by: buddyedgewood
» Back at you, fool Posted by: WhuThe?!?
13th place?
Posted by: deschain on Jan 3, 2008 2:58 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Maybe I'm overanalyzing but to note that Obama's "campaign website lists Iraq as the 13th entry on its "issues" page" seems intended to suggest that he isn't prioritizing Iraq highly enough.

Fact is, the Issues list on that site is in alphabetical order. Nothing complicated about that, but perhaps an opening for someone apparently intent on dismissing Obama - who stills seems a good choice to me.

cheers

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» Thanks Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Thanks - Joshua Posted by: johnclark
» RE: Thanks - Joshua Posted by: umrayya
» RE: Thanks - Joshua Posted by: johnclark
Your editorial bias is beginning to suck
Posted by: Wexler on Jan 3, 2008 3:05 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That's a fact.

-Wexler

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Try again Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Try again Posted by: Wexler
» RE: Try again Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Try again Posted by: Wexler
» RE: Try again Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Try again Posted by: Wexler
» RE: Try again Posted by: C-Dawg Blake
» RE: Try again Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Try again Posted by: umrayya
» Agreed Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Agreed Posted by: umrayya
» RE: Try again Posted by: Wexler
» No, Mr. Holland, We Don't... Posted by: pdxstudent
» Well said that man!! Posted by: pig
» That says it all ... Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: That says it all ... Posted by: Wexler
» RE: That says it all ... Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: That says it all ... Posted by: Wexler
» Getting dull Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: ducking the issue Posted by: luckypuck
Fibs, Lies, Triangulation
Posted by: LookOut on Jan 3, 2008 3:12 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
are what this breed of political "top democrats" packaged by a treacherous media establishment deal in. They will literally say and pretend anything to appease a somewhat suspicious but generally gullible public.

Voting records and allegiances off the campaign tinsel trail tell the story. (Edwards for example is a CFR and Bilderberg “globalist” proxy).

What goes unsaid by the Vichy water mainstream press corp is that the system itself is intentionally broken. And so badly corrupted that anyone put up and groomed for “high office” is merely a bad actor staging a seamy part.(For example, in a real democracy BushCo would have been indicted and impeached long ago)

Talk of “redeployment” and “bringing the troops home” in no way passes the smell test. Not in the face of false “war on terror” run by the likes of who and what these players actually represent…

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» and .....OIL Posted by: starvinmarvy
» RE: Fibs, Lies, Triangulation Posted by: Basenjis
» Lets keep it "real"??? Posted by: starvinmarvy
Who is the greenest candidate?
Posted by: Wexler on Jan 3, 2008 3:35 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
http://www.lcv.org/voterguide/

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Sorry, this comment has been removed from the system.
» RE: Who is the greenest candidate? Posted by: LeftCoastProgressive
» I got "page could not be found" Posted by: plantland
I am concerned that Edwards' campaign may be being sabotaged but it could just be paranoia
Posted by: Suzon on Jan 3, 2008 4:21 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I was going to send the campaign a check by post, but decided to use my credit card online for the first time. When I clicked on the campaign site's link a dialog box warned that the website was certified by an "unknown authority".

When I examined the certificate I saw it was issued on 12-27-07 by Akamai Subordinates and googling "Akamai" brought me to the website of Rottweiler breeders. Someone's idea of a joke?

Whatever's going on, I was certainly discouraged from contributing and I doubt that I was the only one. Perhaps some kindly geek will investigate or set me straight.

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» Nope. Posted by: Tatarize
Edwards, the wuss?
Posted by: xvictor on Jan 3, 2008 4:27 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I had watched him as he debated against Cheney before the last presidential election. Edwards was smiling and being way too polite while Cheney was snarling and frothing at the mouth spewing explicitly stupid nonsense during the whole session. Unfortunately, Edwards behaved like a wuss against mangy, pit bull Cheney.

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» RE: Not a wuss Posted by: Urstrly
» RE: Not a wuss Posted by: willymack
» RE: dwards, the wuss? Posted by: LeftCoastProgressive
ending the Occupation is not the same as withdrawal
Posted by: robchapman on Jan 3, 2008 4:51 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The AlterNet has made a fundamental error in conflating the end of the Occupation with the withdrawal of Coalition forces from Iraq.

This is important- the occupation of Germany ended in 1954, but the withdrawal of US forces from that impoverished, war-torn, unstable and threatened country has yet to occur.

It is very important to recognize, that as circumstances change, the mission will change.

When we discovered that there were no WMD in Iraq, the mission changed to establishing democracy.

When it became clear that corruption and sectarian discrimination had emasculated the Iraqi National Government (IMG), the mission changed to preventing a blood-bath.

As it is becoming increasingly clear that the Iraqis are not really interested in auto-genocide, the mission is changing to preventing Iran from establishing influence in Iraq.

It will continue to remain so as long as progressive forces continue the strategy of supporting marginal candidates on the basis of opposition to the War.

Until the peace movement can capture a major candidate and transform that national debate, the institutional inertia will favor continuation of the American troop presence in Iraq.

The best anti-war candidate is the candidate who is most skillful politically.

All of the Democratic candidates have the right political orientation.

The one we need is the one who can go to Washington,and work with all the stake-holders Congress, the media-including the blogosphere- the institutional government, the public and the political types to achieve the desired change.

The idea that political purity and personal likability is going to transform policy is a myth skillfully foisted upon us by the Reaganites.

For far too long we have let them manipulate us with the fears that candidates with strong, sophisticated, progressive ideas will alienate middle America.

We need to weigh carefully the positive aspects of each candidate for the Democratic nomination.

We must decide which one has the needed strengths, unite, organize and win elections all the way down the ballot in 08.

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Reading the entrails
Posted by: hagwind on Jan 3, 2008 5:26 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Most campaign coverage is superficial crap. Reporter quotes latest statement from candidate, often at some length, then "gets quotes" (that's what it's often called in the news biz) from the Same Old Sources and maybe (if the reporter and his/her editor are exceptionally diligent) supplies some context from the candidate's record. Then the Same Old Pundits rush in to read the entrails and tell us what they mean.

I've been finding the articles on AlterNet useful, but it's worth keeping in mind that the overwhelming majority of them aren't, and don't pretend to be, "reporting." They're much more like editorials and op-ed columns: the writers have sorted through the primary sources (like the candidates' statements and records), filtered it all through their own values and priorities, and come up with what they hope is a coherent and persuasive statement of their views. They're not trying to be impartial. I don't come to the AlterNet board looking for impartiality, or even for "balance": I'm looking for a corrective to the continuous stream of (mostly) gray water discharged by the mainstream press. If the mainstream press is stampeding hard for Obama and Clinton, I expect AlterNet writers to devote more critical attention to Obama and Clinton, and give more coverage to their opponents.

If I vote, I don't expect the candidate of my choice to be perfect. Democratic politics involves continual compromise, and by any standard the U.S. is an almost unimaginably diverse country. I don't expect to get everything I want. I don't expect any candidate to be perfect. If you're looking for perfection, maybe what you want is a savior, not a candidate.

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» RE: eading the entrails Posted by: Basenjis
» RE: Reading the putrid entrails Posted by: LeftCoastProgressive
» Naive Entrail Reader... Posted by: LookOut
Register as a Republican and Vote Ron Paul
Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com on Jan 3, 2008 5:37 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Two very recent articles showing support for John Edwards, I guess Alternet has picked its candidate.

One thing everyone needs to keep in mind, the candidate's platform, their speeches, its all just words.

Words don't do anything. Their voting records do something.

Hillary and Obama have continued to fund this war full tilt, those actions speak very loudly to me.

Edwards, while he was still a senator, voted to approve the Iraq war, he voted for the Patriot Act, and now these recent articles would have us believe he is reformed enough that we should vote for him.


No.

I am going to vote for a candidate whose actions have consistently matched his words, Ron Paul, who voted against the Patriot Act, voted against the initial Iraq War authorization, and has continually voted against funding it.

Yes he wants to decimate the federal government and many progressives see that as terrible, the anti-authoritarians among us should also see that while it will hurt social programs it will also hurt the Department of Defense which has grown to mammoth proportions under the guise of killing al Qaeda, a band of criminals and murders (cause F22's and M1A1 tanks are the first thing I think of when I think of fighting a criminal organization).

In the end it will leave a heck of a lot more money in the pockets of each American and at the state level we can decide what social programs we want to fund with much more accountable state representatives.

I honestly think that if the anti-authoritarian left, who is largely unhappy with the chosen 3 who have been selected for us, registered as Republicans and voted for Ron Paul, we could help make him the Republican candidate.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: I question that conclusion Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com
» RE: I question that conclusion Posted by: Basenjis
» RE: What Complete BS Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com
» RE: You are right Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com
» RE: That is flat out false Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com
» RE: You are a Douchebag Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com
» RE: You have a very narrow view of the world Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com
» RE: You make some good points Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com
» RE: You make some good points Posted by: Basenjis
» F*ck Ron Paul '08 Posted by: lefty010
» RE: No One is Selfless Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com
hilary , a perfect marxist
Posted by: richholland on Jan 3, 2008 5:46 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
watching from europe and asia seeing tv and reading articles I can assure you mrs.hilary acts as a perfect marxist.
Read the book George Orwell:1984
words have the meaning what the upper upper class want and certainly not what the average goodwilling citizen thinks they mean
God bless America.

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hilary , a perfect marxist
Posted by: richholland on Jan 3, 2008 5:46 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
watching from europe and asia seeing tv and reading articles I can assure you mrs.hilary acts as a perfect marxist.
Read the book George Orwell:1984
words have the meaning what the upper upper class want and certainly not what the average goodwilling citizen thinks they mean
God bless America.

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Edwards
Posted by: g50 on Jan 3, 2008 5:50 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
No way. You think he's telling you the truth? He isn't.

Friends, I hate to be sour grapes, but there is no way I am supporting a phony like Edwards. He is telling you what you want to hear, and he will only let you down. Don't delude yourself with the promises of a politician desperate in his last chance for electoral office. Please, our party could have someone with integrity.

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» RE: dwards - FOR INSTANCE? Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: dwards - FOR INSTANCE? Posted by: skydog
» RE: dwards - FOR INSTANCE? Posted by: puddytat
» RE: dwards - FOR INSTANCE? Posted by: Cooltruth
Re: I take this article means Alternet for Edwards
Posted by: Mike in L.A. on Jan 3, 2008 5:57 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I agree with johnclark. Barack was the only one against the Iraq war resolution in the first place, and there are only minor differences in their current Iraq policies. Essentially, from what I can tell, both want to get the hell out, and soon.

Alternet is bashing Obama because it has regretfully chosen Edwards as its favorite Democratic candidate. I have diminished respect Alternet as a result, especially since the article (essentially an Obama attack) is the title of Alternet’s email, not just an opinion about which there may be legitimate debate.

Further, there is certainly no law against Edwards’ living in a 28,000 square foot house, but appearances are important when you are trying to be the “champion of the blue collar working man struggling to make a living, fighting the good fight against corporate greed”. In my opinion, 28,000 feet seems ostentatiously excessive. For contrast, Warren Buffet still resides in the gray stucco home he bought in 1958 for $31,500.

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» Michael Moore on Obama Posted by: aonghus36
And don't forget Schwartzenegger
Posted by: Urstrly on Jan 3, 2008 7:18 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And Warren Buffet was also behind the replacement of California Governor Gray Davis by Arnold Schwartenegger, presumably to break a logjam in Sacramento and push through a pro-business agenda. Buffet's a savvy investor, but politics is about more than markets; it's not neutral to human needs and civil rights. Or at least it shouldn't be. It would be a shame if the Edwards house lost him the presidency (I haven't heard that Al Gore is a domestic paragon either) because far more is at stake.No matter who the Dems pick, count on the Republican machine to slime every aspect of their persona. Personally, I'm glad that the top three Dems are lawyers, because when you're in a jam, you need a good lawyer, and we're in a constitutional jam now.

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Generate Discussion
Posted by: Southern Gal on Jan 3, 2008 7:32 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Isn't the purpose of Alternet to generate discussion regarding important issues in our lives? Where else do you get the opportunity to read other people's ideas and interpretation of the major issues? We are all editorializing to a degree when we post our comments on this website. You get the opportunity to refute what someone else says if you disagree with them.

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» RE: Generate Discussion Posted by: Lauren
» RE: I agree and Posted by: Ripcord
Why?
Posted by: Lauren on Jan 3, 2008 7:34 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why did Kucinich throw his support behind Obama?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Why? Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Why? Posted by: g50
» RE: Why? Posted by: babs
» RE: Why? Posted by: skydog
» RE: Why? Posted by: hellofriends
» RE: Why? Posted by: Basenjis