COMMENTS: 101
Virgin or Slut: Pick One
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On the one hand we have a hypersexualized and pornified pop culture -- thongs marketed to tweens, Victoria's Secret ads with models who don't look a day over 13, and reality shows like A Shot at Love on MTV, where both men and women will do anything -- including jump in vats of chocolate and discuss their sexual histories on national television -- all for instantaneous love with a petite model. The message to young women is loud and clear: Your body is your power. Flaunt it. Use it. Get attention. The message to young men is also unmistakable: Your gaze is your power. Your role is to judge and comment on women's bodies. As a man, you are inevitably obsessed -- sometimes stupidly so -- with the female form.
On the other hand, we have a federally funded (over $1 billion thus far) abstinence-only sex education program in this country. According to the Guttmacher Institute, nearly half (46 percent) of all 15- to 19-year-olds in the United States have had sex at least once. According to the government's most comprehensive survey of American sexual practices to date, more than half of all teenagers have engaged in oral sex -- including nearly a quarter of those who have never had intercourse. Regardless of this reality, health teachers from Nacogdoches, Texas, to Newark, N.J., are taught to emotionlessly repeat -- as if pull dolls of the Bush administration -- "The only guaranteed way to avoid pregnancy and STDs is abstinence. The only guaranteed way to avoid pregnancy and STDs is abstinence. The only guaranteed way to avoid pregnancy and STDs is abstinence."
Here, the message to young women is also resolute: Your body is dangerous. Control it. Ignore it. Don't ask any questions. Teen girls are cast as asexual princesses happily trapped in towers, guarded by their Bible verse-spouting fathers. The message to young men is more subtle. In this fairy tale written, produced and directed by abstinence-only advocates, teenage guys are both potential villains -- the oversexed, hormone-crazed young men who must be refused continuously by good girls -- or potential knights in shining armor -- saving enough money from their summer jobs to buy sparkling rings that will save their sweeties from the hell of slutdom.
In between pornified culture and purity balls, in between the slut and the virgin, the stupid, lascivious dude and the knight in shining armor, in between the messages directed at young women -- your body is your power vs. your body is dangerous -- and young men -- your gaze is your power vs. your gaze is dangerous -- are real young people trying to develop authentic identities and sexual practices. And they are struggling mightily.
Too many of them are diseased, disordered, and depressed -- participating in inauthentic performances of sexual bravado, cut off from their bodies' true appetites and desires, and hurt because they can't seem to identify or communicate their own boundaries.
How could we be surprised? We've constructed a polarized culture that gives teenagers edifice, not education. We've sent them out into the wildly complex country of contemporary adolescence without the essential weapons -- sexual literacy, communication strategies, self-reflection exercises, and at the very least, accurate information about anatomy and contraception.
We've let the increasingly conglomerated raunchy mass media pollute the visual world with plastic, codified images of "sex" and the increasingly out-of-touch, religious and righteous federal government play Pollyanna -- deaf, dumb and blind. As the schools relinquish responsibility for educating American teens about sex, the advertisers and networks step in, providing an airbrushed, inauthentic, unrealistic view of sex and the bodies that are "doing it." They're happy to play sexy nanny while our government officials and educators are out to lunch; it guarantees ratings and the next generation eager to fork over cash on products marketed to their effectively socialized inadequacy.
And what kind of education do we provide to help negotiate this onslaught of messages? A curriculum based on three little empty words: "Just say no." Even federally funded studies of abstinence-only sex education confirm that it is ineffective. Half of those who have abstinence-only sex ed end up having sex by the time they're 15 years old. Multiple peer-reviewed studies also confirm that purity pledges actually lead teenagers into having more oral, anal and unprotected sex. Another longitudinal study of 13,000 teenagers found that 53 percent of those who commit to purity until marriage have sex out of wedlock within the year.
The consequences are devastating, diverse and rampant. According to the Rape, Abuse, and Incest National Network, every two and a half minutes, somewhere in America, someone is sexually assaulted. About 44 percent of rape victims are under age 18, and 80 percent are under age 30. According to the Guttmacher Institute, of the 18.9 million new cases of STDs each year, 9.1 million (48 percent) occur among 15- to 24-year-olds. Seven million girls and women in this country have eating disorders; clinicians estimate that as many as 80 percent of those with anorexia, bulimia and binge-eating disorder are victims of sexual assault.
And harder to pin down with numbers, most college (and some high school) students experience campuses characterized by random, unsatisfying hookups, stunted emotional growth and the private hell of loneliness, guilt and shame. So many young adults don't know how to deal with the messiness of sex without being sloppy drunk.
We could make such a difference by doing so little. First and foremost, we must replace abstinence-only sexual education with comprehensive curriculum that teaches teenagers accurate, useful and wide-ranging information. They are welcome to save intercourse for marriage, of course, and should certainly be taught that -- indeed -- it is one of only two ways to absolutely prevent pregnancy, though not STDs. (The method of sexual exploration that guarantees both no STDS and no pregnancy is, of course, masturbation!) But they must also be given the tools -- informational, emotional, communicative -- they need should they choose otherwise. We need to teach both young women and men about sexual desire -- that it varies widely and is not shameful but can be overwhelming.
We must also provide our kids with the media and consumer literacy needed to face the pornified culture that we live in and advocate -- through letter writing, boycotts, and public pressure -- that schools, playgrounds, and other public spaces remain advertising-free. As artists, filmmakers, writers, actors, producers etc., we must strive to provide a more enlightened and inspiring view of human sexuality, to create work that involves love and sex without codifying both into unreality. Think Jane Campion.
And finally, we must stop treating teenagers as if they are either dangerous or idiots. When I was recently on The O'Reilly Factor with conservative pundit Laura Ingraham, she shouted, in response to my apparently blasphemous idea that girls deserve to be educated about their bodies: "Twelve-year-olds can't even pick out what color shirt they want to wear in the morning!" It made me wonder if Laura had ever met a 12-year-old, ever had a real conversation with one about her dreams, her thoughts, her desires.
I've had the pleasure of interacting with many teenagers -- 12 years old and older -- and I'm continually amazed at their insight, maturity and earnest need for more information. They aren't adults yet -- sure -- but they are aching in that direction. They need those of us who are done with the journey to provide some fundamental tools on how to make it through. We need to ask them about what they're experiencing and how we can be helpful as they make their way. Instead of luring them in, selling them out, condemning or indoctrinating them, we need to meet them face to face with compassion and information.
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Posted by: El Hombre Malo on Dec 20, 2007 1:53 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They are not so naive that they dont realize that abstinence teaching wont stop a good percentage of young people from having sex, they are counting on that. It is simply that they want that sex to be as dangerous as posible, the consecuences lifecrushing, so the "sluts" serve as admonitory tale to keep the good flock both scared and relieved not to be part of "them". "Them" the liberal, freethinkers, unruly they identify with sexual freedom. They need sluts to feel superior to them. And to feel superior, the slut's life need to be as miserable as possible, and it has to be because they are unchristian and slutty.
Its not a new notion and it has been an useful one. Poor people (or black people where present) were identified with sexual unruliness, and this was given as the sole explanation for social inequities. "They have too many children" was considered a better explanation for poverty than "they dont own the land thy work" or "there is not a good schooling system". It is still considered a good explanation by many, even those who label themselves liberals, no matter how many times proven wrong (in developing countries, large families have better living standarts than small ones, and contribute more to economic growth). And it is an effective discourse because it detaches "us", the good flock, from the problems of others, thus able to pursue our own interests with a clean conscience.
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» RE: The need for Sluts; great comment
Posted by: Beck
» RE: The need for Sluts
Posted by: Libsrule
» Yea, those damned fathers
Posted by: MartianBachelor
» RE: The need for Sluts
Posted by: ellarwee
» RE: The need for Sluts
Posted by: El Hombre Malo
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Posted by: talkville on Dec 20, 2007 2:17 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: kepstein7777 on Dec 20, 2007 4:34 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
With everyone trying to educate, motivate, protect, and control them...It just keeps getting worse...I mean...My teenage years were hell, but I would never trade them for being a teenager nowadays.
I've talked to a few teenagers too. It's disturbing how cynical and jaded they are. It took me 40 years to get this bad, but many kids 1/3 my age are worse.
I think the best thing is for everyone--including the author of this article--to give them some space, and stop trying to educate, enlighten, protect them, and so on. If they want to learn about stuff, it's all in the library or online, or they can ask.
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» RE: Give them space. Thanks; another great comment.
Posted by: Beck
» RE: Give them space
Posted by: outsideagitator
» Give them COMPREHENSIVE sex ed in schools, and then give them space
Posted by: rjgwood
» RE: Give them COMPREHENSIVE sex ed in schools, and then give them space
Posted by: lepidopteryx
» hear hear
Posted by: Ames
» AGREED!! If a High School Student is tested on how to score a BOWLING GAME, but . . .
Posted by: Prairie Waif
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Posted by: Lilykins on Dec 20, 2007 5:03 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think in America, sexuality has become more about oppression, domination, control, even hatred than about connection and love.
Also, thank you for adding in the article that eating disorders are often related to this screwed-up view of sexuality. Most people don't realize that.
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» RE: Frightening
Posted by: RevinFreddy
» For high Smut content on TEEVEE NEWS, watch FOX!
Posted by: Prairie Waif
» RE: Frightening
Posted by: Badger1492
» RE: Frightening
Posted by: Lilykins
» RE: Frightening
Posted by: Badger1492
» RE: Frightening
Posted by: Lilykins
» RE: Frightening
Posted by: Badger1492
» RE: Frightening
Posted by: Racumin
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Posted by: kiel on Dec 20, 2007 5:08 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Vik on Dec 20, 2007 5:12 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: both?
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: both?
Posted by: Hovey
» RE: both?
Posted by: zulu127
» RE: both?
Posted by: Badger1492
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Posted by: RevinFreddy on Dec 20, 2007 5:28 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
People learn about sex, usually at a young enough age to procreate, more liekely long before. It’s been going on for quite a while and never ever goes out of style.
Sex has always been an extremely provocative and popular activity for young people and old. You just can't scare people out of doing it... Not with the Clap... Not with AIDS... Not with social, political, or religious hypocrisy. Nothing makes them stop! Except, perhaps, isolation.
Certainly, then, sex education is in no way necessary to teach kids about sex, just as it is not for any other creature of this planet. Birds do it, bees do it, bears and wallabies do it. Hopefully, with practice and proper care, we learn to do it well. Everyone is doing it and has always done it in their own good time, at their pleasure, hopefully with one another.
Older people don't benefit anyone teaching younger people how or why or why not to have sex, nor when or when not to--except, of course, those doing it with each other—they would do well to teach and learn from one another; to serve each other and humanity well.
I think society is better served learning skills in school like how to build a fire, a house, an igloo; how to purify water, how to nourish, maintain, our bodies in good health and repair ourselves and eachother when we break.
We need to learn in school how to figure things out for ourselves and to share what we learn with each other, how to solve dificult problems and assist others in achieving mutually rewarding goals.
Imagination and curiosity inoculate us from perpetual boredom, ignorance and repetition in life; our public education should provide the tools and instruction to help us apply these natural vaccines.
We don’t need extra-curricular social clubs, sports teams and spring-flings and Winter Formals. We need to know about our planet, about our collective history, about ourselves. We need to learn about the laws we’re governed by, existing institutions and why they exist, how political institutions and power economies work for and against us and how we can create and change them to suite our personal and collective needs.
We need to learn how to work with our minds, with our hands, to communicate effectively with each other, to live in harmony with this planet.
We can figure out sex for ourselves, with each other, when we’re ready, for our own reasons, without any help from school. What do ya think we are, stupid or something?
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» Alot of girls think you can't get pregnant the first time. Stupid, or misinformed?
Posted by: Beck
» RE: Teach Kids About Sex? Why?
Posted by: El Hombre Malo
» Kids need to learn about their bodies
Posted by: rjgwood
» RE: Teach Kids About Sex? Why?
Posted by: dseilhan
» RE: Teach Kids About Sex? Why?
Posted by: dermnurse68
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Posted by: UnEasyOne on Dec 20, 2007 5:35 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
All this "To catch a Predator" nonsense is just another witch hunt predicated on the proposition that Sex is a Very Bad Thing.
Let me hasten to say that of course there are bad guys out there and of course we need to protect the innocent from predators.
But am I the only one that finds it odd that we have children in prison (certified as adults) because they "should have known better" than to commit the crimes they did and men in prison for having prison because the "poor child" was just 17 and "had no idea what she was getting into" when she had consensual sex?
The atmosphere is such today that I would never dare post this today if I had any association whatever with any minor whatsoever. I am happily married and disabled, so I rarely leave my house.
Having said that, I would like to point out that the only way to keep girls and boys virgins until they reach a magic age is to lock em up. When a girl wants sex, she is gonna get it - and without a lot of difficulty.
Mother nature says that they become young adults somewhere the age of 10 and 14. "Babies" don't HAVE babies - it is a biological impossibility - but an effective propaganda slogan.
There are two legitimate goals for any society as far as teens and sex are concerned.
1) Preventing the spread of disease
2) Preventing early and unwanted pregnancy
Abstinence only misinformation has been proven to fulfill neither of those goals.
In fact, the more comprehensive sex education is, and the earlier it is begun, according to every single study on the subject the later the onset of sexual activity and the fewer negative consequences of that activity.
As long as religious wingnuts dominate our national dialog and have this inappropriate and disproportional effect on our laws, there will be real problems undressed and manufactured problems galore.
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» RE: Sex is evil!
Posted by: Lilykins
» RE: Sex is evil! Beware, recklessness abounds! J'accuse!
Posted by: DaBear
» RE: Sex is evil!
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: Sex is evil!
Posted by: DaBear
» RE: Sex is evil!
Posted by: planet doomed
» RE: Sex is evil! - ALL MEN DO NOT RAPE
Posted by: UnEasyOne
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Posted by: yellow on Dec 20, 2007 6:08 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: VZEQICVA on Dec 20, 2007 7:20 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: green mom on Dec 20, 2007 7:36 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I would like my girls to enter college without a sexually transmitted disease and having not been pregnant. Any thoughts?
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» RE: Safe sex practices?
Posted by: bookie
» RE: Safe sex practices?
Posted by: green mom
» RE: Safe sex practices?
Posted by: bookie
» RE: Safe sex practices? Best answer EVAH!
Posted by: DaBear
» RE: Safe sex practices?
Posted by: ellarwee
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Posted by: zooeyhall on Dec 20, 2007 7:38 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Anyway--back to my intended rant: I have seen this coming since about 20 years ago. I am totally fed-up with the way things are in this country. Our society is every day more and more resembling a Bosch surrealist painting. Things are gonna self-destruct and I'm not going to get caught up in it.
I want to ask: what is a good country to emigrate to? I am 50 and have 15 years experience in IT. I also have a 160 acre farm in Nebraska (I am also an active farmer), and with the recent run-up in land prices (due to the ethanol frenzy) I can sell my land and have $400,000 in the bank.
I am sick and tired of being a gay guy among ferocious straights. Of being a skeptic in the middle of JesusLand. Of being around people who can only talk about beer, football, Jesus, and pussy. Of being around jerks who live off of junk media and junk food. I don't want to be the only square peg in a universe of round holes.
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» RE: I'm getting outta here!
Posted by: outlander55
» RE: I'm getting outta here!
Posted by: drmeow
» RE: I'm getting outta here!
Posted by: Ignatz deFyre
» Don't leave, turn your farm into a sustainable ecovillage!
Posted by: truthteller
» RE: Don't leave, turn your farm into a sustainable ecovillage!
Posted by: zooeyhall
» RE: I'm getting outta here!
Posted by: bcgirl125
» Heard of CANADA? We have Homosexual EQUALITY
Posted by: Prairie Waif
» and I could offer to Canada....
Posted by: zooeyhall
» RE: and I could offer to Canada....
Posted by: Turiye
» RE: I'm getting outta here!
Posted by: Racumin
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Posted by: lc on Dec 20, 2007 7:40 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
By that definition virtually everyone I have known is a whore including me, my parents, sisters, brother, aunts and uncles and just about everyone I have ever known except my virgin son who I expect to give that up as soon as the right whore comes along to pop his virginity.
The people pushing abstinence are all whores living the oldest double standard of all: sexual denial; control and manipulation by the Cult of the Covenant of the Chopped Cocks in the Land of the Whores of Babylon.
IM
Belteshazzar
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» RE: Whores R US
Posted by: Crazy H
» Sex outside of marriage?
Posted by: Cooltruth
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Posted by: caitlain on Dec 20, 2007 7:49 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
These folks are preaching ideology. They don't care the first bit about whether or not anyone's health is impacted negatively (as others have pointed out). They don't base their "education" (the more appropriate term in this case is "indoctrination") on anything remotely connected to logic. It is all based on religious ideology.
You are correct that, until we as a society begin to treat sexuality, including that for teenagers, rationally and intelligently, we're going to continue to endure this particular set of issues.
It is just incredible to fathom the naivity of people like Ingraham, O'Reilly and their ilk. They've clearly not actually dealt with teenagers in a very long, long time. It just defies common sense to believe that you can tell anyone, let alone teenagers to just say "no" to sex. That has never worked at any point in human history. What in the hell makes them think it is going to work now, especially given the hypersexuality that you refer to in advertising and in the media?
Idiots.
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Posted by: PaulK on Dec 20, 2007 8:17 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The tree of the knowledge of good and evil is the knowledge of sex, which feels way freakin good, and is so evil! The snake is carrying this red apple in his mouth. Yeah, that's a dick for you. It's the talking devil himself. And Eve falls for his smooth talking first.
Now comes the good part, shame! Adam and Eve are both terribly ashamed before God of their privates. And they lie to God! And God being a strict parent just like your parents want, decides to torture Adam and Eve for all eternity for what they did.
If you partake in sex, yes, even kissing, you are a slut for all time. Perpetual shame forever on you. The reason you can't have condoms is so that you WILL get knocked up for all to see, and catch AIDS and die too.
Remember that when you're having your little fun. Remember!
Tremendous feelings of shame is exactly the tool that causes all women to lose control of effective responses during violent sex, and great guilt causes teenage boys to have orgasms very early before girls can push them out.
Never mind that you are a machine, honed through millions of years to produce as many babies as you can. Whether by love or by shame or both, your parents could not control themselves. Your grandparents too... If you don't love and don't reproduce, you'll be bitter and a bit insane in your old age.
I'm having too good a time here.
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Posted by: willymack on Dec 20, 2007 8:24 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Azraelsjudgement on Dec 20, 2007 8:40 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Parents have the first responsibility here. ALthough I have much disdain for Federal government indoctrination schools but there should be something to back up careless parents with real education.
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Posted by: olenholm on Dec 20, 2007 9:11 AM
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Posted by: nfamous on Dec 20, 2007 9:15 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The predator laws in this country are just nonsense. There is nothing wrong with an 18 year old guy having sex with a 15 year old. Please.....Most adults are emotionally immature themselves so that "Men are taking advantage of emotionally insecure girls" or vice versa excuse doesn't float. It never did but when women are commoditized as they are in America then it follows to its natural conclusion which is where we are.
My guy friends and I often talk about how women believe their bodies are worth so much more than a man's. We are supposed to do anything in our power to get a woman into bed but they don't have to do anything for us. And then once we have sex women somehow assume that the man owes them for the experience. It's another form of prostitution but instead of getting directly paid women get trips to the malls, dinner, diamond rings and whatever else the guy's credit rating can withstand. This is the worst kind of double standard and pure gender norm hypocrisy.
This country is screwed. It always has been screwed up but at least things used to be fixable until supercapitalism and hyperinvidualism took over. It's too late now so sit back for the ride. It's going to be a disheveled disaster. The unrelenting barrage of corporate media could care less about the emotional, physical or mental health of the materially enslaved consumer zombies they have created. But that's what a money driven society accomplishes: nothing.
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» RE: Much too little and way too late
Posted by: drmeow
» RE: Much too little and way too late
Posted by: madmax427
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Posted by: craigandrew on Dec 20, 2007 9:15 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The more we blame, the more we try to hide from blame, the more we become polarized.
And, our children carry the brunt of it.
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Posted by: Sojourner on Dec 20, 2007 9:25 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Add to the list of wackiness: guns, inebriates, cars, opportunistic patriotism, gambling--the list goes on.
I watched the PBS presentation of "An Unreasonable Man," the Ralph Nader bio. I was startled to be reminded that so many of the consumer protections we take for granted today came under Jimmy Carter.
For those who weren't around pre-Reagan, that's what we were working on back then. The lurch backward since then has nearly sealed our doom (called the most reactionary Supreme Court in my lifetime). It won't be easy picking up where we left off. We are living in the new Dark Ages. But it has not always been this way. Noses to the grindstone folks. Only look up to admire the sky; it's still there.
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Posted by: Phenix on Dec 20, 2007 10:09 AM
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Posted by: Crazy H on Dec 20, 2007 10:38 AM
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» Have to order one, eh?
Posted by: Beck
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Posted by: truthteller on Dec 20, 2007 11:17 AM
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It may be true that in some underdeveloped countries extra hands mean extra income, but that is certainly not the case here. And, if we redefined what family and community is, then the coming together of people not necessarily related by blood in intentional "families" to work together would make having lots of kids unnecessary.
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Posted by: LeaveMeAlone on Dec 20, 2007 12:12 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: paulbryan on Dec 20, 2007 12:45 PM
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Posted by: bgamett on Dec 20, 2007 12:54 PM
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» RE: this is not accurate for your Idaho paradiso but it is for socal
Posted by: DaBear
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Posted by: mercury613 on Dec 20, 2007 1:13 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We rarely hear about people like my friend, though -- just like we rarely hear about loving gay couples who raise healthy children -- because fundamentalist “Christians” want us to believe that the angelic virgin and the evil slut are the only options. They’re not afraid that bad things will happen if their children have premarital sex; they’re afraid that bad things won’t happen. For at that point, their outdated, shaky religious house of cards will fall.
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Posted by: strahlungsamt on Dec 20, 2007 3:01 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Today, the only girls I see in short skirts are at night with rich guys or ghetto pimps and have dollar signs flashing in their eyes. No longer do they show off their skin, rather the amount of brand-name fashion accessories they have scored off their sugar-daddies.
I grew up in Europe and often went to the nude beach with family and friends. Nudism was a fairly normal activity in those days and guess what? The kids who grew up this way were the least likely to get pregnant or STDs. We knew how our bodies worked and treated each other with respect. (Well, most of the time anyway)
Then 1996 rolled around. Jon Benet got raped by her daddy (and despite loads of evidence, daddy is still a free man), America discovered the word "pedophilia", the Spice Girls revolutionized music and the dot-com rush caused everything and anything that moved to be commodified. People gave up their jobs to become career gamblers on E-Trade and sold their souls on the altar of e-commerce.
Quickly, sex became transformed from an form of expression to a way of making money. Kids had to be dumbed down as quickly as possible so they would consume as much as possible as fast as the Rain Forest could be chopped down to produce. Music was stripped clean of any real meaning or expression and every genre was called up to be slaughtered. Sixties, Punk, Rap, Techo, all melted into one liquidized genre, to be repeated over and over again on MTV.
On the Left Flank, Liberals came in and dumbed down school and college curricula. (Sorry Liberals but you are guilty here. You abandoned the working class decades ago for your university ivory towers. And don't even start me on the Ghetto.).
Then on the Right Flank, the KKKristians came in and finished the job with minimal effort.
And the best part of it is; it would have worked even without the Bush Administration.
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Posted by: Cathyc on Dec 20, 2007 5:01 PM
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What about the equally sexually-repressed mothers?
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» RE: What about bible-thumping mothers?
Posted by: MartianBachelor
» Sexually Repressed Mothers torture their daughters at puberty
Posted by: Prairie Waif
» Neurotic Parents
Posted by: gellero
» RE: What about bible-thumping mothers?
Posted by: YogiBear
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Posted by: Racumin on Dec 21, 2007 7:30 PM
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Having said all that, I've been continually surprised at how sexually immature all the women in my life have been. It is so frustrating and a little creepy at times. It reminds me of the sex I had when I was a teen. The 'sluts' were the more normal ones. I used to think I was somehow attracting that kind of partner. Now I know it's not me. It's a messed up place. It's a good thing there are a lot of people out there educating. A great example is all the sex-positive podcasts, like sexisfun, which I highly recommend. I think we need to educate adults first.
To me sexuality is as important, if not more important than other things like career choice. It's who you are. It's part of your essence as a human being. How can you make a person deny themselves? I feel teenagers should be allowed to explore their sexuality freely. Why are we so afraid of sex? Our responsibility is to educate them so they make the right decisions for themselves.
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Posted by: gellero on Dec 21, 2007 11:41 PM
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Teen pregnancy is common among the lower classes not because they don't know how to prevent it, but more because they just don't care.
You can propagandize them all you want, but their behavior won't change much......and I'm not exactly sure why, but it has nothing to do with 'abstinance' education, because no teen buys into that anyway.
And why should they. It's obvious it's nothing more than grown up's propaganda.
Teens should have sex and have fun at it too, as long as they study and get good grades. Most lower class parents don't seem to stress that, for reasons unknown the more rational adults of our society.
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Posted by: xenocyd on Dec 22, 2007 1:01 AM
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"They aren't adults yet -- sure -- but they are aching in that direction. They need those of us who are done with the journey"
Done? What does that mean? Life is growth from day one till death, there is no DONE. As a 30 year old man I find the concept of "adult" to be ludicrous, considering how childish the vast majority of them are.
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Posted by: gellero on Dec 22, 2007 5:12 PM
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Posted by: bubearcats08 on Dec 24, 2007 9:17 AM
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Gratuitions violence in US is fine and given a lower rating than anything involving nudity or even partial nudity...that is apparently past the line for conservatives...while their abstinence only policies and total denial of reality have led to more teen pregnancies and also the highest rate of all STDs in the past twenty years....
It is beyond discussion or debate that Bush/Cheney are screwing up this country (not to mention environment, economy, etc....)in innumerable ways that are almost beyond belief and will only come to light (if not shredded) after they are out of power!!!!
Do not elect anybody for President that even remotely supports our evil administration that truly despises anybody not in the top 1%.......i.e. Hillary or Rudy......
Speaking of sex, Africa has the highest percent of AIDS in the world (but not much oil and not predominantly Muslim) and civil war, that nine out of ten individuals there are children...yet Bush/Cheney totally try to even admit Africa exists!!!!!!
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Posted by: bubearcats08 on Dec 24, 2007 9:24 AM
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Posted by: BlueLicorice on Dec 25, 2007 2:49 AM
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Teenagers realize that models are not the ideal for everyone, but they do look glamorous. I'd rather my child have sex and let me know than not to do so. I will not stop talking to her about it when the opportunity arises and sometimes even when I initiate it.
But what would be helpful is if sexuality were brought to a natural level where people did not feel that it was dirty and unnatural or that they had to hide their desires or interest in any sex. While we'd like our daughters to be perfect little angels, they are women in training just as boys are men in training. If the adults do not show them the proper ways to act, then who is going to do it?
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» RE: Girls are just young people
Posted by: Geolager
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Posted by: lenox on Jan 5, 2008 2:06 PM
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"Abstinence Only" is absurd. They should wait for marriage? What if they don't get married until they're in their 30's? Or never? It isn't a moral issue (for girls) as much as it's an extension of teaching self protection and making good decisions. Unfortunately a lot of us (parents) don't start this process until adolescence, and they (teens) view their parents as adversaries rather than allies. Gotta do your homework, Parenting starts in infancy.
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Posted by: El Hombre Malo on Dec 20, 2007 1:53 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They are not so naive that they dont realize that abstinence teaching wont stop a good percentage of young people from having sex, they are counting on that. It is simply that they want that sex to be as dangerous as posible, the consecuences lifecrushing, so the "sluts" serve as admonitory tale to keep the good flock both scared and relieved not to be part of "them". "Them" the liberal, freethinkers, unruly they identify with sexual freedom. They need sluts to feel superior to them. And to feel superior, the slut's life need to be as miserable as possible, and it has to be because they are unchristian and slutty.
Its not a new notion and it has been an useful one. Poor people (or black people where present) were identified with sexual unruliness, and this was given as the sole explanation for social inequities. "They have too many children" was considered a better explanation for poverty than "they dont own the land thy work" or "there is not a good schooling system". It is still considered a good explanation by many, even those who label themselves liberals, no matter how many times proven wrong (in developing countries, large families have better living standarts than small ones, and contribute more to economic growth). And it is an effective discourse because it detaches "us", the good flock, from the problems of others, thus able to pursue our own interests with a clean conscience.
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» RE: The need for Sluts; great comment
Posted by: Beck
» RE: The need for Sluts
Posted by: Libsrule
» Yea, those damned fathers
Posted by: MartianBachelor
» RE: The need for Sluts
Posted by: ellarwee
» RE: The need for Sluts
Posted by: El Hombre Malo
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Posted by: talkville on Dec 20, 2007 2:17 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: kepstein7777 on Dec 20, 2007 4:34 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
With everyone trying to educate, motivate, protect, and control them...It just keeps getting worse...I mean...My teenage years were hell, but I would never trade them for being a teenager nowadays.
I've talked to a few teenagers too. It's disturbing how cynical and jaded they are. It took me 40 years to get this bad, but many kids 1/3 my age are worse.
I think the best thing is for everyone--including the author of this article--to give them some space, and stop trying to educate, enlighten, protect them, and so on. If they want to learn about stuff, it's all in the library or online, or they can ask.
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» RE: Give them space. Thanks; another great comment.
Posted by: Beck
» RE: Give them space
Posted by: outsideagitator
» Give them COMPREHENSIVE sex ed in schools, and then give them space
Posted by: rjgwood
» RE: Give them COMPREHENSIVE sex ed in schools, and then give them space
Posted by: lepidopteryx
» hear hear
Posted by: Ames
» AGREED!! If a High School Student is tested on how to score a BOWLING GAME, but . . .
Posted by: Prairie Waif
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Posted by: Lilykins on Dec 20, 2007 5:03 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think in America, sexuality has become more about oppression, domination, control, even hatred than about connection and love.
Also, thank you for adding in the article that eating disorders are often related to this screwed-up view of sexuality. Most people don't realize that.
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» RE: Frightening
Posted by: RevinFreddy
» For high Smut content on TEEVEE NEWS, watch FOX!
Posted by: Prairie Waif
» RE: Frightening
Posted by: Badger1492
» RE: Frightening
Posted by: Lilykins
» RE: Frightening
Posted by: Badger1492
» RE: Frightening
Posted by: Lilykins
» RE: Frightening
Posted by: Badger1492
» RE: Frightening
Posted by: Racumin
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Posted by: kiel on Dec 20, 2007 5:08 AM
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Posted by: Vik on Dec 20, 2007 5:12 AM
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» RE: both?
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: both?
Posted by: Hovey
» RE: both?
Posted by: zulu127
» RE: both?
Posted by: Badger1492
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Posted by: RevinFreddy on Dec 20, 2007 5:28 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
People learn about sex, usually at a young enough age to procreate, more liekely long before. It’s been going on for quite a while and never ever goes out of style.
Sex has always been an extremely provocative and popular activity for young people and old. You just can't scare people out of doing it... Not with the Clap... Not with AIDS... Not with social, political, or religious hypocrisy. Nothing makes them stop! Except, perhaps, isolation.
Certainly, then, sex education is in no way necessary to teach kids about sex, just as it is not for any other creature of this planet. Birds do it, bees do it, bears and wallabies do it. Hopefully, with practice and proper care, we learn to do it well. Everyone is doing it and has always done it in their own good time, at their pleasure, hopefully with one another.
Older people don't benefit anyone teaching younger people how or why or why not to have sex, nor when or when not to--except, of course, those doing it with each other—they would do well to teach and learn from one another; to serve each other and humanity well.
I think society is better served learning skills in school like how to build a fire, a house, an igloo; how to purify water, how to nourish, maintain, our bodies in good health and repair ourselves and eachother when we break.
We need to learn in school how to figure things out for ourselves and to share what we learn with each other, how to solve dificult problems and assist others in achieving mutually rewarding goals.
Imagination and curiosity inoculate us from perpetual boredom, ignorance and repetition in life; our public education should provide the tools and instruction to help us apply these natural vaccines.
We don’t need extra-curricular social clubs, sports teams and spring-flings and Winter Formals. We need to know about our planet, about our collective history, about ourselves. We need to learn about the laws we’re governed by, existing institutions and why they exist, how political institutions and power economies work for and against us and how we can create and change them to suite our personal and collective needs.
We need to learn how to work with our minds, with our hands, to communicate effectively with each other, to live in harmony with this planet.
We can figure out sex for ourselves, with each other, when we’re ready, for our own reasons, without any help from school. What do ya think we are, stupid or something?
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» Alot of girls think you can't get pregnant the first time. Stupid, or misinformed?
Posted by: Beck
» RE: Teach Kids About Sex? Why?
Posted by: El Hombre Malo
» Kids need to learn about their bodies
Posted by: rjgwood
» RE: Teach Kids About Sex? Why?
Posted by: dseilhan
» RE: Teach Kids About Sex? Why?
Posted by: dermnurse68
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Posted by: UnEasyOne on Dec 20, 2007 5:35 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
All this "To catch a Predator" nonsense is just another witch hunt predicated on the proposition that Sex is a Very Bad Thing.
Let me hasten to say that of course there are bad guys out there and of course we need to protect the innocent from predators.
But am I the only one that finds it odd that we have children in prison (certified as adults) because they "should have known better" than to commit the crimes they did and men in prison for having prison because the "poor child" was just 17 and "had no idea what she was getting into" when she had consensual sex?
The atmosphere is such today that I would never dare post this today if I had any association whatever with any minor whatsoever. I am happily married and disabled, so I rarely leave my house.
Having said that, I would like to point out that the only way to keep girls and boys virgins until they reach a magic age is to lock em up. When a girl wants sex, she is gonna get it - and without a lot of difficulty.
Mother nature says that they become young adults somewhere the age of 10 and 14. "Babies" don't HAVE babies - it is a biological impossibility - but an effective propaganda slogan.
There are two legitimate goals for any society as far as teens and sex are concerned.
1) Preventing the spread of disease
2) Preventing early and unwanted pregnancy
Abstinence only misinformation has been proven to fulfill neither of those goals.
In fact, the more comprehensive sex education is, and the earlier it is begun, according to every single study on the subject the later the onset of sexual activity and the fewer negative consequences of that activity.
As long as religious wingnuts dominate our national dialog and have this inappropriate and disproportional effect on our laws, there will be real problems undressed and manufactured problems galore.
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» RE: Sex is evil!
Posted by: Lilykins
» RE: Sex is evil! Beware, recklessness abounds! J'accuse!
Posted by: DaBear
» RE: Sex is evil!
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: Sex is evil!
Posted by: DaBear
» RE: Sex is evil!
Posted by: planet doomed
» RE: Sex is evil! - ALL MEN DO NOT RAPE
Posted by: UnEasyOne
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Posted by: yellow on Dec 20, 2007 6:08 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: VZEQICVA on Dec 20, 2007 7:20 AM
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Posted by: green mom on Dec 20, 2007 7:36 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I would like my girls to enter college without a sexually transmitted disease and having not been pregnant. Any thoughts?
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» RE: Safe sex practices?
Posted by: bookie
» RE: Safe sex practices?
Posted by: green mom
» RE: Safe sex practices?
Posted by: bookie
» RE: Safe sex practices? Best answer EVAH!
Posted by: DaBear
» RE: Safe sex practices?
Posted by: ellarwee
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Posted by: zooeyhall on Dec 20, 2007 7:38 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Anyway--back to my intended rant: I have seen this coming since about 20 years ago. I am totally fed-up with the way things are in this country. Our society is every day more and more resembling a Bosch surrealist painting. Things are gonna self-destruct and I'm not going to get caught up in it.
I want to ask: what is a good country to emigrate to? I am 50 and have 15 years experience in IT. I also have a 160 acre farm in Nebraska (I am also an active farmer), and with the recent run-up in land prices (due to the ethanol frenzy) I can sell my land and have $400,000 in the bank.
I am sick and tired of being a gay guy among ferocious straights. Of being a skeptic in the middle of JesusLand. Of being around people who can only talk about beer, football, Jesus, and pussy. Of being around jerks who live off of junk media and junk food. I don't want to be the only square peg in a universe of round holes.
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» RE: I'm getting outta here!
Posted by: outlander55
» RE: I'm getting outta here!
Posted by: drmeow
» RE: I'm getting outta here!
Posted by: Ignatz deFyre
» Don't leave, turn your farm into a sustainable ecovillage!
Posted by: truthteller
» RE: Don't leave, turn your farm into a sustainable ecovillage!
Posted by: zooeyhall
» RE: I'm getting outta here!
Posted by: bcgirl125
» Heard of CANADA? We have Homosexual EQUALITY
Posted by: Prairie Waif
» and I could offer to Canada....
Posted by: zooeyhall
» RE: and I could offer to Canada....
Posted by: Turiye
» RE: I'm getting outta here!
Posted by: Racumin
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Posted by: lc on Dec 20, 2007 7:40 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
By that definition virtually everyone I have known is a whore including me, my parents, sisters, brother, aunts and uncles and just about everyone I have ever known except my virgin son who I expect to give that up as soon as the right whore comes along to pop his virginity.
The people pushing abstinence are all whores living the oldest double standard of all: sexual denial; control and manipulation by the Cult of the Covenant of the Chopped Cocks in the Land of the Whores of Babylon.
IM
Belteshazzar
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» RE: Whores R US
Posted by: Crazy H
» Sex outside of marriage?
Posted by: Cooltruth
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Posted by: caitlain on Dec 20, 2007 7:49 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
These folks are preaching ideology. They don't care the first bit about whether or not anyone's health is impacted negatively (as others have pointed out). They don't base their "education" (the more appropriate term in this case is "indoctrination") on anything remotely connected to logic. It is all based on religious ideology.
You are correct that, until we as a society begin to treat sexuality, including that for teenagers, rationally and intelligently, we're going to continue to endure this particular set of issues.
It is just incredible to fathom the naivity of people like Ingraham, O'Reilly and their ilk. They've clearly not actually dealt with teenagers in a very long, long time. It just defies common sense to believe that you can tell anyone, let alone teenagers to just say "no" to sex. That has never worked at any point in human history. What in the hell makes them think it is going to work now, especially given the hypersexuality that you refer to in advertising and in the media?
Idiots.
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Posted by: PaulK on Dec 20, 2007 8:17 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The tree of the knowledge of good and evil is the knowledge of sex, which feels way freakin good, and is so evil! The snake is carrying this red apple in his mouth. Yeah, that's a dick for you. It's the talking devil himself. And Eve falls for his smooth talking first.
Now comes the good part, shame! Adam and Eve are both terribly ashamed before God of their privates. And they lie to God! And God being a strict parent just like your parents want, decides to torture Adam and Eve for all eternity for what they did.
If you partake in sex, yes, even kissing, you are a slut for all time. Perpetual shame forever on you. The reason you can't have condoms is so that you WILL get knocked up for all to see, and catch AIDS and die too.
Remember that when you're having your little fun. Remember!
Tremendous feelings of shame is exactly the tool that causes all women to lose control of effective responses during violent sex, and great guilt causes teenage boys to have orgasms very early before girls can push them out.
Never mind that you are a machine, honed through millions of years to produce as many babies as you can. Whether by love or by shame or both, your parents could not control themselves. Your grandparents too... If you don't love and don't reproduce, you'll be bitter and a bit insane in your old age.
I'm having too good a time here.
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Posted by: willymack on Dec 20, 2007 8:24 AM
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Posted by: Azraelsjudgement on Dec 20, 2007 8:40 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Parents have the first responsibility here. ALthough I have much disdain for Federal government indoctrination schools but there should be something to back up careless parents with real education.
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Posted by: olenholm on Dec 20, 2007 9:11 AM
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Posted by: nfamous on Dec 20, 2007 9:15 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The predator laws in this country are just nonsense. There is nothing wrong with an 18 year old guy having sex with a 15 year old. Please.....Most adults are emotionally immature themselves so that "Men are taking advantage of emotionally insecure girls" or vice versa excuse doesn't float. It never did but when women are commoditized as they are in America then it follows to its natural conclusion which is where we are.
My guy friends and I often talk about how women believe their bodies are worth so much more than a man's. We are supposed to do anything in our power to get a woman into bed but they don't have to do anything for us. And then once we have sex women somehow assume that the man owes them for the experience. It's another form of prostitution but instead of getting directly paid women get trips to the malls, dinner, diamond rings and whatever else the guy's credit rating can withstand. This is the worst kind of double standard and pure gender norm hypocrisy.
This country is screwed. It always has been screwed up but at least things used to be fixable until supercapitalism and hyperinvidualism took over. It's too late now so sit back for the ride. It's going to be a disheveled disaster. The unrelenting barrage of corporate media could care less about the emotional, physical or mental health of the materially enslaved consumer zombies they have created. But that's what a money driven society accomplishes: nothing.
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» RE: Much too little and way too late
Posted by: drmeow
» RE: Much too little and way too late
Posted by: madmax427
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Posted by: craigandrew on Dec 20, 2007 9:15 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The more we blame, the more we try to hide from blame, the more we become polarized.
And, our children carry the brunt of it.
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Posted by: Sojourner on Dec 20, 2007 9:25 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Add to the list of wackiness: guns, inebriates, cars, opportunistic patriotism, gambling--the list goes on.
I watched the PBS presentation of "An Unreasonable Man," the Ralph Nader bio. I was startled to be reminded that so many of the consumer protections we take for granted today came under Jimmy Carter.
For those who weren't around pre-Reagan, that's what we were working on back then. The lurch backward since then has nearly sealed our doom (called the most reactionary Supreme Court in my lifetime). It won't be easy picking up where we left off. We are living in the new Dark Ages. But it has not always been this way. Noses to the grindstone folks. Only look up to admire the sky; it's still there.
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Posted by: Phenix on Dec 20, 2007 10:09 AM
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Posted by: Crazy H on Dec 20, 2007 10:38 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Have to order one, eh?
Posted by: Beck
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Posted by: truthteller on Dec 20, 2007 11:17 AM
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It may be true that in some underdeveloped countries extra hands mean extra income, but that is certainly not the case here. And, if we redefined what family and community is, then the coming together of people not necessarily related by blood in intentional "families" to work together would make having lots of kids unnecessary.
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Posted by: LeaveMeAlone on Dec 20, 2007 12:12 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: paulbryan on Dec 20, 2007 12:45 PM
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Posted by: bgamett on Dec 20, 2007 12:54 PM
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» RE: this is not accurate for your Idaho paradiso but it is for socal
Posted by: DaBear
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Posted by: mercury613 on Dec 20, 2007 1:13 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We rarely hear about people like my friend, though -- just like we rarely hear about loving gay couples who raise healthy children -- because fundamentalist “Christians” want us to believe that the angelic virgin and the evil slut are the only options. They’re not afraid that bad things will happen if their children have premarital sex; they’re afraid that bad things won’t happen. For at that point, their outdated, shaky religious house of cards will fall.
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Posted by: strahlungsamt on Dec 20, 2007 3:01 PM
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Today, the only girls I see in short skirts are at night with rich guys or ghetto pimps and have dollar signs flashing in their eyes. No longer do they show off their skin, rather the amount of brand-name fashion accessories they have scored off their sugar-daddies.
I grew up in Europe and often went to the nude beach with family and friends. Nudism was a fairly normal activity in those days and guess what? The kids who grew up this way were the least likely to get pregnant or STDs. We knew how our bodies worked and treated each other with respect. (Well, most of the time anyway)
Then 1996 rolled around. Jon Benet got raped by her daddy (and despite loads of evidence, daddy is still a free man), America discovered the word "pedophilia", the Spice Girls revolutionized music and the dot-com rush caused everything and anything that moved to be commodified. People gave up their jobs to become career gamblers on E-Trade and sold their souls on the altar of e-commerce.
Quickly, sex became transformed from an form of expression to a way of making money. Kids had to be dumbed down as quickly as possible so they would consume as much as possible as fast as the Rain Forest could be chopped down to produce. Music was stripped clean of any real meaning or expression and every genre was called up to be slaughtered. Sixties, Punk, Rap, Techo, all melted into one liquidized genre, to be repeated over and over again on MTV.
On the Left Flank, Liberals came in and dumbed down school and college curricula. (Sorry Liberals but you are guilty here. You abandoned the working class decades ago for your university ivory towers. And don't even start me on the Ghetto.).
Then on the Right Flank, the KKKristians came in and finished the job with minimal effort.
And the best part of it is; it would have worked even without the Bush Administration.
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Posted by: Cathyc on Dec 20, 2007 5:01 PM
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What about the equally sexually-repressed mothers?
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» RE: What about bible-thumping mothers?
Posted by: MartianBachelor
» Sexually Repressed Mothers torture their daughters at puberty
Posted by: Prairie Waif
» Neurotic Parents
Posted by: gellero
» RE: What about bible-thumping mothers?
Posted by: YogiBear
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Posted by: Racumin on Dec 21, 2007 7:30 PM
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Having said all that, I've been continually surprised at how sexually immature all the women in my life have been. It is so frustrating and a little creepy at times. It reminds me of the sex I had when I was a teen. The 'sluts' were the more normal ones. I used to think I was somehow attracting that kind of partner. Now I know it's not me. It's a messed up place. It's a good thing there are a lot of people out there educating. A great example is all the sex-positive podcasts, like sexisfun, which I highly recommend. I think we need to educate adults first.
To me sexuality is as important, if not more important than other things like career choice. It's who you are. It's part of your essence as a human being. How can you make a person deny themselves? I feel teenagers should be allowed to explore their sexuality freely. Why are we so afraid of sex? Our responsibility is to educate them so they make the right decisions for themselves.
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Posted by: gellero on Dec 21, 2007 11:41 PM
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Teen pregnancy is common among the lower classes not because they don't know how to prevent it, but more because they just don't care.
You can propagandize them all you want, but their behavior won't change much......and I'm not exactly sure why, but it has nothing to do with 'abstinance' education, because no teen buys into that anyway.
And why should they. It's obvious it's nothing more than grown up's propaganda.
Teens should have sex and have fun at it too, as long as they study and get good grades. Most lower class parents don't seem to stress that, for reasons unknown the more rational adults of our society.
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Posted by: xenocyd on Dec 22, 2007 1:01 AM
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"They aren't adults yet -- sure -- but they are aching in that direction. They need those of us who are done with the journey"
Done? What does that mean? Life is growth from day one till death, there is no DONE. As a 30 year old man I find the concept of "adult" to be ludicrous, considering how childish the vast majority of them are.
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Posted by: gellero on Dec 22, 2007 5:12 PM
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Posted by: bubearcats08 on Dec 24, 2007 9:17 AM
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Gratuitions violence in US is fine and given a lower rating than anything involving nudity or even partial nudity...that is apparently past the line for conservatives...while their abstinence only policies and total denial of reality have led to more teen pregnancies and also the highest rate of all STDs in the past twenty years....
It is beyond discussion or debate that Bush/Cheney are screwing up this country (not to mention environment, economy, etc....)in innumerable ways that are almost beyond belief and will only come to light (if not shredded) after they are out of power!!!!
Do not elect anybody for President that even remotely supports our evil administration that truly despises anybody not in the top 1%.......i.e. Hillary or Rudy......
Speaking of sex, Africa has the highest percent of AIDS in the world (but not much oil and not predominantly Muslim) and civil war, that nine out of ten individuals there are children...yet Bush/Cheney totally try to even admit Africa exists!!!!!!
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Posted by: bubearcats08 on Dec 24, 2007 9:24 AM
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Posted by: BlueLicorice on Dec 25, 2007 2:49 AM
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Teenagers realize that models are not the ideal for everyone, but they do look glamorous. I'd rather my child have sex and let me know than not to do so. I will not stop talking to her about it when the opportunity arises and sometimes even when I initiate it.
But what would be helpful is if sexuality were brought to a natural level where people did not feel that it was dirty and unnatural or that they had to hide their desires or interest in any sex. While we'd like our daughters to be perfect little angels, they are women in training just as boys are men in training. If the adults do not show them the proper ways to act, then who is going to do it?
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» RE: Girls are just young people
Posted by: Geolager
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Posted by: lenox on Jan 5, 2008 2:06 PM
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"Abstinence Only" is absurd. They should wait for marriage? What if they don't get married until they're in their 30's? Or never? It isn't a moral issue (for girls) as much as it's an extension of teaching self protection and making good decisions. Unfortunately a lot of us (parents) don't start this process until adolescence, and they (teens) view their parents as adversaries rather than allies. Gotta do your homework, Parenting starts in infancy.
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