COMMENTS: 74
Will Bush Provoke Iran?
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But although the new National Intelligence Estimate (NIE) makes it more difficult to carry out his agenda in Iran, Bush is trying to publicly undermine its conclusions. "I have said Iran is dangerous," he declared, "and the NIE estimate doesn't do anything to change my opinion about the danger Iran poses to the world -- quite the contrary." Will Bush provoke an incident with Iran and then respond in "self-defense"?
Bush "rewarded" Iran for its help in consolidating U.S. power in Afghanistan after the 9/11 attacks by inaugurating Iran into his "axis of evil" in January 2002. The following year, Iran offered the U.S. government a comprehensive plan for negotiations and cooperation, which addressed all of Bush's claimed pet peeves about Iran. In Iran's 2003 memorandum, sent to the U.S. government via Swiss diplomats, Iran proposed a "dialogue in mutual respect." It sought negotiations with the United States on the concerns Bush has repeatedly expressed.
Iran proposed "full transparency" to show "there are no Iranian endeavors to develop or possess WMD." It also sought to guarantee "decisive action against any terrorists (above all Al Qaida) on Iranian territory, full cooperation and exchange of all relevant information." In Iraq, Iran proposed "coordination of Iranian influence for activity supporting political stabilization and the establishment of democratic institutions and a non-religious government." Iran agreed to discuss the "stop of any material support to Palestinian opposition groups (Hamas, Jihad etc.) from Iranian territory" and "pressure on these organizations to stop violent action against civilians within borders of 1967." And Iran listed its "acceptance of the Arab League Beirut declaration (Saudi initiative, two-states-approach)." This meant Iran would recognize the state of Israel.
The Iranian memorandum also offered to negotiate the following with the United States: "Halt in US hostile behavior and rectification of status of Iran in the U.S.: (interference in internal or external relations, 'axis of evil', terrorism list)"; "Abolishment of all sanctions: commercial sanctions, frozen assets, judgments (FSIA), impediments in international trade and financial institutions"; "Iraq: democratic and fully representative government in Iraq, support of Iranian claims for Iraqi reparations, respect for Iranian national interests in Iraq and religious links to Najaf/Karbal"; "Full access to peaceful nuclear technology, biotechnology and chemical technology"; "Recognition of Iran's legitimate security interests in the region with according defense capacity"; and "Terrorism: pursuit of anti-Iranian terrorists, above all MKO."
This 2003 offer by Iran to negotiate these pressing issues with the United States was an incredible opportunity, which Bush, who claims to pursue diplomacy, should have seized. Yet the White House thumbed its nose at the Iranian offer and then tried to cover up the story.
Why did Bush reject Iran's 2003 offer and now seek to discredit the conclusions of the National Intelligence Estimate? Because even if all his stated gripes with Iran were resolved, Bush's hidden agenda would not be addressed. That agenda comes into focus on the website of the American Enterprise Institute, a neoconservative think tank that claims Paul Wolfowitz, Lynne Cheney, Richard Perle and John Bolton as members. Under the AEI's list of "Research Projects" is "Global Investment in Iran."
Just as "Operation Iraqi Freedom" was about corporate control over Iraq's oil, Bush's strategy on Iran is about making Iran safe for global investment. And just as Bush lied about the danger posed by Saddam Hussein, he is now lying about the perils Iran poses.
U.N. International Atomic Energy Agency Director Mohamed ElBaradei has consistently said there is "no evidence" Iran has ever maintained a program of developing nuclear weapons. Yet even though Bush learned about the NIE report in August or September, according to National Security Advisor Stephen Hadley, he invoked World War III in the same breath with Iran in October. On December 4, Bush lied about when he learned Iran had no weapons program, saying, "I was made aware of the NIE last week."
Hadley's report on the timing of Bush's knowledge of the NIE is corroborated by a shift in the rhetoric emerging from the White House. During the last two months, Bush stopped talking about Iran possessing nukes, and began referring to Iran having "knowledge" of nuclear weapons, which he linked with World War III.
In spite of the unanimous conclusion in the National Intelligence Estimate and ElBaradei's informed judgment, we cannot trust Bush-Cheney to abandon their imperial designs on Iran. Bush will probably provoke a military confrontation with Iran, then invoke the language in the 2002 Congressional authorization for the use of military force in Iraq that says, "The President has authority under the Constitution to take action in order to deter and prevent acts of international terrorism against the United States."
Congress must support Rep. Neil Abercrombie's resolution stating that Bush has been given no authority to go to war with Iran.
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Posted by: Lector on Dec 27, 2007 1:56 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Unless they are completely nuts, the Bush administration’s plans for Iran is not a nuclear attack but a containment plan. So containment might be at the heart of its Middle East policy, which they believe is the solution to the Middle East's problems (stabilize Iraq, Palestine, the de-clawing of Hezbolla, the Israeli-Arab interest in deflating Iran’s power, etc). But it’s a Cold War containment model that won’t work because the US wouldn’t be able to effectively implement it and it would create more problems than they started out with. It doesn’t understand the diverse views of Arab states. They assume that Iran can be handled like the Soviet Union and that the Cold War model applies to the Middle East. They wrongly beleive that the containment strategy also assumes broad Arab solidarity. And the US cannot maintain large numbers of troops in the region indefinitely.
Also, the unclassified version of NIE said that Iran was "less determined to develop nuclear weapons than we have been judging since 2005". Less determined. The US has never had enough people who understand and speak the language fluently enough or understand the culture so anything coming from an NIE report to me is doubtful and filled with too many intelligence gaps. I think they let us believe they know more than they do.
Pointless
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» RE: Too many assumptions
Posted by: US Citizen
» RE: Too many assumptions
Posted by: patfr
» To doubt the NIE is to doubt intelligent thought.
Posted by: drcyflowers
» RE: To doubt the NIE is to doubt intelligent thought.
Posted by: Lector
» You had me at....
Posted by: woodford54
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Posted by: Roy Eidelson on Dec 27, 2007 4:10 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Such manipulation of public sentiment has been a key part of the White House’s entire Iraq war enterprise, so we should not be surprised to see it play a similar role in regard to Iran. For those interested in a psychological analysis of this warmongering, I have also recently completed a 10-minute YouTube video entitled “Resisting the Drums of War.” It examines how the Bush administration’s messaging targets five core concerns that often govern our lives--concerns about vulnerability, injustice, distrust, superiority, and helplessness. The video describes these warmongering appeals and offers suggestions for how to counter them. It’s available for viewing HERE.
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» RE: Iran and Iraq--White House Warmongering
Posted by: Grandma Crabby
» RE: Iran and Iraq--White House Warmongering
Posted by: madmax427
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Posted by: davidg on Dec 27, 2007 5:04 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: saltoafronteira on Dec 27, 2007 6:21 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The one I'm going to state may, efectively, be a coincidence, but anyway, is an unlucky one.
From the middle eastern islamic countries, there were only 3 that escaped the radical wahabitic sunni pattern.
You may say that Iran is a Theocracy, but even as a teocracy, it is much lighter than, let's say, saudi arabia.
As for irak, in spite of having been an iron dictatorship, was a laic state.
Well ! Even with all the open or concealed geo-strategical reasons to what happened or is about to happen, it is very curious that the USA are destroying the only alternatives to that wahabic state pattern in the region.
Who comes next ? Egipt ?
When will Syria's turn arrive?
Who are the real USA allies ?
Who is, or will, really finance these wars, by keeping the dollar as the trade currency for oil ?
How far goes the liaison between the wahabic families and states with the corporate oil interests in the west ?
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Posted by: Sissy on Dec 27, 2007 6:40 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Who doesn't The Texas Turd provoke?
Posted by: Doubtom
» RE: Who doesn't The Texas Turd provoke?
Posted by: Sissy
» RE: Who doesn't The Texas Turd provoke?
Posted by: macdon1
» RE: Who doesn't The Texas Turd provoke?
Posted by: Rumpus
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Posted by: MR Id on Dec 27, 2007 7:31 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: libertyferall on Dec 27, 2007 7:35 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Missing from the U.S. internal dialogue about the Bush administration's intention to invade Iran is the larger context of how other countries will respond to such unwarranted aggression.
I'm a pacifist and I am observing with incredulous horror how the largely unchecked megalomania of the Bush administration to dominate the world with its hegemonic goals of total control of world politics is provoking other countries to allocate resources for military development to stop this course of destruction and aggression against them.
If American citizens continue to passively stand by and do nothing to stop the Bush administration in its military insanity, other countries (this is no longer just about an impending invasion of Iran) are banding together to wage war against the U.S. to check it.
Wake up, Americans! The U.S. is provoking the entire world with its hostile actions. Do you think for a minute that countries at war with the U.S. make any distinctions between the actions of its leaders, its military, and its people? It's time to stand up for what you believe in, and if you want peace in the world, then oust these warmongers and make sure we've got a democracy that works. Then start mending fences with other countries with great intention and determination because right now the fences that make good neighbors have been bombed to pieces.
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» RE: U.S. Not Just Provoking Iran
Posted by: Grandma Crabby
» read Stephen Kinzers' "Overthrow" and...
Posted by: davidg
» RE: U.S. Not Just Provoking Iran
Posted by: patfr
» Well said, and good points
Posted by: WhuThe?!?
» RE: Well said, and good points
Posted by: patfr
» RE: U.S. Not Just Provoking Iran
Posted by: madmax427
» Your Are Preaching to the Choir
Posted by: woodford54
» RE: U.S. Not Just Provoking Iran
Posted by: blitzmesser
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Posted by: VZEQICVA on Dec 27, 2007 7:42 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: A SELF FULFILLING PROPHECY
Posted by: Sissy
» RE: Bush's gut is directly connected to...
Posted by: richholland
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Posted by: QQOblivion on Dec 27, 2007 8:29 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Maybe JFK from the grave might have a warning for President Bush about crossing the CIA. Bush and Cheney should watch themselves.
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» RE: A Warning For President Bush
Posted by: Richard House
» RE: A Warning For President Bush
Posted by: QQOblivion
» RE: A Warning For President Bush
Posted by: EdinIowa
» RE: A Warning For President Bush
Posted by: EdinIowa
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Posted by: davidg on Dec 27, 2007 8:40 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Do investigate the historic manipulation by politics of religion. Again, I could be wrong, but the above commentary by Saltofrontiera rang bells.
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» RE: Bush family and the Saudis
Posted by: saltoafronteira
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Posted by: willymack on Dec 27, 2007 9:50 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: It's interesting
Posted by: saltoafronteira
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Posted by: BJ Barrington on Dec 27, 2007 10:11 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It has supported and /or created every dictator from Batista, to Hitler to Stalin to Franco to The Shah of Iran, to Duvalier, to the Saudi family, to Marcos- or yes and Saddam Hussein. It is the American way. We know how to get what we want.
It has helped support racist Israel and its theft of Palestinian land, its destruction of Lebanon and its creation of the largest concentration camp in the world- Gaza.
It has overthrown any and all leaders who tried to save their own people: such as Lamumba, Mossadeq, Pinochet, Batista, Nasser, Aristide, Castro and Chavez. And it has used both the World Bank and the IMF to ruin the economy of dozens of countries. It is what America does best.
It destroyed Yugoslavia a few years ago. And for at least ten years it destroyed Iraq's water and sewage plants thus killing at least 750 000 kids. It will not stop at anything to maintain it position in the world, including the jailing of million of its own citizens.
It has lost only 4, 000 soldiers in Iraq, a small price to pay for its way of life. It annually kills close to 100, 000 a year on its highways or with hand guns. So why should it stop now? It doesn't make sense. Its conquest of the oil fields in Iran will protect our way of life forever. No one said the conquest of the world would be easy.
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» RE: The American way...
Posted by: davidg
» RE: The American way...
Posted by: Richard House
» RE: Oops. I don't think you meant to put...
Posted by: BJ Barrington
» RE: Oops. I don't think you meant to put...
Posted by: EdinIowa
» RE: The American way...
Posted by: gary_7vn
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Posted by: kamcallen on Dec 27, 2007 11:15 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: the American Way
Posted by: Richard House
» RE: the American Way
Posted by: madmax427
» Great Work
Posted by: SparkyClinton
» Practical Ideas
Posted by: Jeff Hoffman
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Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Dec 27, 2007 1:40 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: common intelligence on Dec 27, 2007 1:40 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The surest way to get any results is STOP PARTICIPATING.
What we say here is good but only frustrates us for it's lack of affectiveness. Congressman Wexler has made a meanial amount of progress in getting the Miami Herald to make a public printing of His push for Impeaching Cheney. Kucinich's bill was sent into the dole drums of the judiciary commitee for who knows what !
But We have to support his and Kucinich's efforts. Pelosi and Feinstein won't!
Small showings of dissent in the government are buried in camoflaged piles of procrastination. 911 Truth efforts may well go into a circular file deeper than the Kennedy Assasination, until Bush is dead from (un)natural causes.
We people must fire up in mass and get momentum or these so called leaders whom are suppose to represent us will stay in the shadows and make no effort to rid our country of these pirates that have quite literally hijacked our country. The democratic part is a chicken sh*t as any tweeker I've ever known. They are so damn "politically correct" while the Ice holes and cork sukers in the republican party run over them like a sheeps foot soil compactor.
And those citizensthat keep their brains in consummer
la-la-land need the "awakened ones" (us I presume) to save their stupid way of a life of denial and complacentcy. Maybe we have it all wrong. Why save the idiots? Why in hell do we care?
If I was to stand in front of a crowd and declare I will initiate the changes we all want... well would you follow me to lead us?
I will but why should I? Most everyone is a scared little worm.
Most everyone won't lift a hand to throw out the trash and always want and hope someone else will do it, shunning from the dirty deed.
All while looking through the corner of their eye, maybe.
I really think America is over. The ecosystem of the planet is well on it's way and it's basically too late to really make affective change.
Well enjoy your real estate defaults. Bush has assured the same will happen to the loans he made on your behalf from China PAkastan, Japan. The only thing keeping this nation from sudden death is Bush's threat of Nuclear anilation. And as long as the congress keeps passing out blank checks, to keep the endless war going, the only thing that will stop the maddness is when the military runs out of gas, literally.
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» RE: What we (People) want is of no concern to "The Machine"
Posted by: EdinIowa
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Posted by: xbj on Dec 27, 2007 2:47 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» What wit and bravery
Posted by: SparkyClinton
» RE: What BS...
Posted by: xbj
» I can say anything I want
Posted by: SparkyClinton
» RE: I can say anything I want
Posted by: xbj
» You forgot to mention your humility
Posted by: SparkyClinton
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Posted by: HeKnew on Dec 27, 2007 3:01 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Mirror, Mirror
Posted by: xbj
» RE: Mirror, Mirror
Posted by: xbj
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Posted by: SparkyClinton on Dec 27, 2007 3:37 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Will Iran Provoke Us
Posted by: EdinIowa
» RE: Will Iran Provoke Us
Posted by: SparkyClinton
» RE: Will Iran Provoke Us
Posted by: EdinIowa
» RE: Will Iran Provoke Us
Posted by: SparkyClinton
» Don't forget the 190,000 AK-47's "we" "miss placed", lost
Posted by: common intelligence
» RE: Don't forget the 190,000 AK-47's "we" "miss placed", lost
Posted by: SparkyClinton
» Are you one of those who believe Saddam had WMDs and US WILL fine them?
Posted by: farhada
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Posted by: Lector on Dec 28, 2007 2:11 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Even if Bush, controlled by the neos, did not exist I believe Iran would still be dangerous under any American president and there would still be an East-West confrontation sooner or later. There is more to it than Iran developing capacity to launch nuclear missiles. There is also a global religious-cultural clash. Having visited Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Israel, Saudi Arabia and talked with the people I think I understand more than I have ever read in the few books I have come across on Islamic culture. And living in Europe I understand and see on a daily basis the growing Islamic influence here which Europe is afraid or too complaisant to deal with. Europe is busy being rediscovered by droves of Muslims who are breeding larger communities and will influence politics simply be their sheer numbers and dwindling European voters). What does this have to do with Iran provoking the Bush administration? Everything.
It’s about taking a firm stance against tyrants and religious extremism everywhere. Even in America, around the clock security details are required of people like Hirsi Ali who have spoken out against Islam. They want her head. Even on CNN when showing pictures or representations of the Prophet they pixel them out for fear of Muslim backlash in America. We can’t have this happening in the USA. It is giving up your right to critize a religion without the threat of having your head chopped off, of giving into a religion that only believes in debating with a gun on their side of the table.
Never mind the previous history of US interference in Iran’s affairs or the fact that Israel is armed and more dangerous than Iran and that the US has poured more dollars into Israel than Iraq, so far, over the years. Never mind this administration lied us into a war. Never mind this administration’s closed circle of comradely neo-cons and laptop bombardiers have been pursuing Middle East hegemony at any cost for decades prior to 9/11. Now is no time to act righteous after we have installed twice a stupid president in the White House while we should have seen it coming long before, since our government has been screwing us for decades under both political parties.
People are forgetting the very serious threat of militant Islamism, Hindus and Muslims killing one another, one-party elections in Musharrif's Pakistan, roaming terrorist organizations, also a backlash against globalism, who will soon be capable of assembling nuclear do-it-yourself kits in any country they chose, and a number of authoritarian governments still reigning with a free hand. We are no longer in a world were we can sit idle and hope it all goes away. President Ahmadinejad may be sincere, but he doesn’t run Iran, the Mullahs do. And to always believe the intelligence agencies reports is as naïve as having initially believed Collin Powell’s presentation at the UN. What we need is leadership in America who doesn’t let extremism win, in any form, that comes from outside or inside its borders by evolving into anOrwellian state
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» RE: too many assumptions. Need to readdress the approach of leadership.
Posted by: common intelligence
» RE: too many assumptions
Posted by: saltoafronteira
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Posted by: Lector on Dec 28, 2007 11:50 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
All that the estimate of the NIE has done is to define weaponry down, to suggest a distinction without much difference between a "civilian" and a "military" dimension of the same program.
Acquisition of enriched uranium and of plutonium, for any purpose, is identical with the acquisition of a thermonuclear weapons capacity. Iran is continuing to strive to produce both and neither are required for civilian energy needs. Ask any nuclear engineer about this.
Pointless
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Posted by: Lector on Dec 27, 2007 1:56 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Unless they are completely nuts, the Bush administration’s plans for Iran is not a nuclear attack but a containment plan. So containment might be at the heart of its Middle East policy, which they believe is the solution to the Middle East's problems (stabilize Iraq, Palestine, the de-clawing of Hezbolla, the Israeli-Arab interest in deflating Iran’s power, etc). But it’s a Cold War containment model that won’t work because the US wouldn’t be able to effectively implement it and it would create more problems than they started out with. It doesn’t understand the diverse views of Arab states. They assume that Iran can be handled like the Soviet Union and that the Cold War model applies to the Middle East. They wrongly beleive that the containment strategy also assumes broad Arab solidarity. And the US cannot maintain large numbers of troops in the region indefinitely.
Also, the unclassified version of NIE said that Iran was "less determined to develop nuclear weapons than we have been judging since 2005". Less determined. The US has never had enough people who understand and speak the language fluently enough or understand the culture so anything coming from an NIE report to me is doubtful and filled with too many intelligence gaps. I think they let us believe they know more than they do.
Pointless
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» RE: Too many assumptions
Posted by: US Citizen
» RE: Too many assumptions
Posted by: patfr
» To doubt the NIE is to doubt intelligent thought.
Posted by: drcyflowers
» RE: To doubt the NIE is to doubt intelligent thought.
Posted by: Lector
» You had me at....
Posted by: woodford54
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Posted by: Roy Eidelson on Dec 27, 2007 4:10 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Such manipulation of public sentiment has been a key part of the White House’s entire Iraq war enterprise, so we should not be surprised to see it play a similar role in regard to Iran. For those interested in a psychological analysis of this warmongering, I have also recently completed a 10-minute YouTube video entitled “Resisting the Drums of War.” It examines how the Bush administration’s messaging targets five core concerns that often govern our lives--concerns about vulnerability, injustice, distrust, superiority, and helplessness. The video describes these warmongering appeals and offers suggestions for how to counter them. It’s available for viewing HERE.
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» RE: Iran and Iraq--White House Warmongering
Posted by: Grandma Crabby
» RE: Iran and Iraq--White House Warmongering
Posted by: madmax427
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Posted by: davidg on Dec 27, 2007 5:04 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: saltoafronteira on Dec 27, 2007 6:21 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The one I'm going to state may, efectively, be a coincidence, but anyway, is an unlucky one.
From the middle eastern islamic countries, there were only 3 that escaped the radical wahabitic sunni pattern.
You may say that Iran is a Theocracy, but even as a teocracy, it is much lighter than, let's say, saudi arabia.
As for irak, in spite of having been an iron dictatorship, was a laic state.
Well ! Even with all the open or concealed geo-strategical reasons to what happened or is about to happen, it is very curious that the USA are destroying the only alternatives to that wahabic state pattern in the region.
Who comes next ? Egipt ?
When will Syria's turn arrive?
Who are the real USA allies ?
Who is, or will, really finance these wars, by keeping the dollar as the trade currency for oil ?
How far goes the liaison between the wahabic families and states with the corporate oil interests in the west ?
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Posted by: Sissy on Dec 27, 2007 6:40 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Who doesn't The Texas Turd provoke?
Posted by: Doubtom
» RE: Who doesn't The Texas Turd provoke?
Posted by: Sissy
» RE: Who doesn't The Texas Turd provoke?
Posted by: macdon1
» RE: Who doesn't The Texas Turd provoke?
Posted by: Rumpus
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Posted by: MR Id on Dec 27, 2007 7:31 AM
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Posted by: libertyferall on Dec 27, 2007 7:35 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Missing from the U.S. internal dialogue about the Bush administration's intention to invade Iran is the larger context of how other countries will respond to such unwarranted aggression.
I'm a pacifist and I am observing with incredulous horror how the largely unchecked megalomania of the Bush administration to dominate the world with its hegemonic goals of total control of world politics is provoking other countries to allocate resources for military development to stop this course of destruction and aggression against them.
If American citizens continue to passively stand by and do nothing to stop the Bush administration in its military insanity, other countries (this is no longer just about an impending invasion of Iran) are banding together to wage war against the U.S. to check it.
Wake up, Americans! The U.S. is provoking the entire world with its hostile actions. Do you think for a minute that countries at war with the U.S. make any distinctions between the actions of its leaders, its military, and its people? It's time to stand up for what you believe in, and if you want peace in the world, then oust these warmongers and make sure we've got a democracy that works. Then start mending fences with other countries with great intention and determination because right now the fences that make good neighbors have been bombed to pieces.
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» RE: U.S. Not Just Provoking Iran
Posted by: Grandma Crabby
» read Stephen Kinzers' "Overthrow" and...
Posted by: davidg
» RE: U.S. Not Just Provoking Iran
Posted by: patfr
» Well said, and good points
Posted by: WhuThe?!?
» RE: Well said, and good points
Posted by: patfr
» RE: U.S. Not Just Provoking Iran
Posted by: madmax427
» Your Are Preaching to the Choir
Posted by: woodford54
» RE: U.S. Not Just Provoking Iran
Posted by: blitzmesser
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Posted by: VZEQICVA on Dec 27, 2007 7:42 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: A SELF FULFILLING PROPHECY
Posted by: Sissy
» RE: Bush's gut is directly connected to...
Posted by: richholland
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Posted by: QQOblivion on Dec 27, 2007 8:29 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Maybe JFK from the grave might have a warning for President Bush about crossing the CIA. Bush and Cheney should watch themselves.
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» RE: A Warning For President Bush
Posted by: Richard House
» RE: A Warning For President Bush
Posted by: QQOblivion
» RE: A Warning For President Bush
Posted by: EdinIowa
» RE: A Warning For President Bush
Posted by: EdinIowa
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Posted by: davidg on Dec 27, 2007 8:40 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Do investigate the historic manipulation by politics of religion. Again, I could be wrong, but the above commentary by Saltofrontiera rang bells.
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» RE: Bush family and the Saudis
Posted by: saltoafronteira
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Posted by: willymack on Dec 27, 2007 9:50 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: It's interesting
Posted by: saltoafronteira
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Posted by: BJ Barrington on Dec 27, 2007 10:11 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It has supported and /or created every dictator from Batista, to Hitler to Stalin to Franco to The Shah of Iran, to Duvalier, to the Saudi family, to Marcos- or yes and Saddam Hussein. It is the American way. We know how to get what we want.
It has helped support racist Israel and its theft of Palestinian land, its destruction of Lebanon and its creation of the largest concentration camp in the world- Gaza.
It has overthrown any and all leaders who tried to save their own people: such as Lamumba, Mossadeq, Pinochet, Batista, Nasser, Aristide, Castro and Chavez. And it has used both the World Bank and the IMF to ruin the economy of dozens of countries. It is what America does best.
It destroyed Yugoslavia a few years ago. And for at least ten years it destroyed Iraq's water and sewage plants thus killing at least 750 000 kids. It will not stop at anything to maintain it position in the world, including the jailing of million of its own citizens.
It has lost only 4, 000 soldiers in Iraq, a small price to pay for its way of life. It annually kills close to 100, 000 a year on its highways or with hand guns. So why should it stop now? It doesn't make sense. Its conquest of the oil fields in Iran will protect our way of life forever. No one said the conquest of the world would be easy.
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» RE: The American way...
Posted by: davidg
» RE: The American way...
Posted by: Richard House
» RE: Oops. I don't think you meant to put...
Posted by: BJ Barrington
» RE: Oops. I don't think you meant to put...
Posted by: EdinIowa
» RE: The American way...
Posted by: gary_7vn
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Posted by: kamcallen on Dec 27, 2007 11:15 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: the American Way
Posted by: Richard House
» RE: the American Way
Posted by: madmax427
» Great Work
Posted by: SparkyClinton
» Practical Ideas
Posted by: Jeff Hoffman
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Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Dec 27, 2007 1:40 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: common intelligence on Dec 27, 2007 1:40 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The surest way to get any results is STOP PARTICIPATING.
What we say here is good but only frustrates us for it's lack of affectiveness. Congressman Wexler has made a meanial amount of progress in getting the Miami Herald to make a public printing of His push for Impeaching Cheney. Kucinich's bill was sent into the dole drums of the judiciary commitee for who knows what !
But We have to support his and Kucinich's efforts. Pelosi and Feinstein won't!
Small showings of dissent in the government are buried in camoflaged piles of procrastination. 911 Truth efforts may well go into a circular file deeper than the Kennedy Assasination, until Bush is dead from (un)natural causes.
We people must fire up in mass and get momentum or these so called leaders whom are suppose to represent us will stay in the shadows and make no effort to rid our country of these pirates that have quite literally hijacked our country. The democratic part is a chicken sh*t as any tweeker I've ever known. They are so damn "politically correct" while the Ice holes and cork sukers in the republican party run over them like a sheeps foot soil compactor.
And those citizensthat keep their brains in consummer
la-la-land need the "awakened ones" (us I presume) to save their stupid way of a life of denial and complacentcy. Maybe we have it all wrong. Why save the idiots? Why in hell do we care?
If I was to stand in front of a crowd and declare I will initiate the changes we all want... well would you follow me to lead us?
I will but why should I? Most everyone is a scared little worm.
Most everyone won't lift a hand to throw out the trash and always want and hope someone else will do it, shunning from the dirty deed.
All while looking through the corner of their eye, maybe.
I really think America is over. The ecosystem of the planet is well on it's way and it's basically too late to really make affective change.
Well enjoy your real estate defaults. Bush has assured the same will happen to the loans he made on your behalf from China PAkastan, Japan. The only thing keeping this nation from sudden death is Bush's threat of Nuclear anilation. And as long as the congress keeps passing out blank checks, to keep the endless war going, the only thing that will stop the maddness is when the military runs out of gas, literally.
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» RE: What we (People) want is of no concern to "The Machine"
Posted by: EdinIowa
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Posted by: xbj on Dec 27, 2007 2:47 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» What wit and bravery
Posted by: SparkyClinton
» RE: What BS...
Posted by: xbj
» I can say anything I want
Posted by: SparkyClinton
» RE: I can say anything I want
Posted by: xbj
» You forgot to mention your humility
Posted by: SparkyClinton
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Posted by: HeKnew on Dec 27, 2007 3:01 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Mirror, Mirror
Posted by: xbj
» RE: Mirror, Mirror
Posted by: xbj
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Posted by: SparkyClinton on Dec 27, 2007 3:37 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Will Iran Provoke Us
Posted by: EdinIowa
» RE: Will Iran Provoke Us
Posted by: SparkyClinton
» RE: Will Iran Provoke Us
Posted by: EdinIowa
» RE: Will Iran Provoke Us
Posted by: SparkyClinton
» Don't forget the 190,000 AK-47's "we" "miss placed", lost
Posted by: common intelligence
» RE: Don't forget the 190,000 AK-47's "we" "miss placed", lost
Posted by: SparkyClinton
» Are you one of those who believe Saddam had WMDs and US WILL fine them?
Posted by: farhada
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Posted by: Lector on Dec 28, 2007 2:11 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Even if Bush, controlled by the neos, did not exist I believe Iran would still be dangerous under any American president and there would still be an East-West confrontation sooner or later. There is more to it than Iran developing capacity to launch nuclear missiles. There is also a global religious-cultural clash. Having visited Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Israel, Saudi Arabia and talked with the people I think I understand more than I have ever read in the few books I have come across on Islamic culture. And living in Europe I understand and see on a daily basis the growing Islamic influence here which Europe is afraid or too complaisant to deal with. Europe is busy being rediscovered by droves of Muslims who are breeding larger communities and will influence politics simply be their sheer numbers and dwindling European voters). What does this have to do with Iran provoking the Bush administration? Everything.
It’s about taking a firm stance against tyrants and religious extremism everywhere. Even in America, around the clock security details are required of people like Hirsi Ali who have spoken out against Islam. They want her head. Even on CNN when showing pictures or representations of the Prophet they pixel them out for fear of Muslim backlash in America. We can’t have this happening in the USA. It is giving up your right to critize a religion without the threat of having your head chopped off, of giving into a religion that only believes in debating with a gun on their side of the table.
Never mind the previous history of US interference in Iran’s affairs or the fact that Israel is armed and more dangerous than Iran and that the US has poured more dollars into Israel than Iraq, so far, over the years. Never mind this administration lied us into a war. Never mind this administration’s closed circle of comradely neo-cons and laptop bombardiers have been pursuing Middle East hegemony at any cost for decades prior to 9/11. Now is no time to act righteous after we have installed twice a stupid president in the White House while we should have seen it coming long before, since our government has been screwing us for decades under both political parties.
People are forgetting the very serious threat of militant Islamism, Hindus and Muslims killing one another, one-party elections in Musharrif's Pakistan, roaming terrorist organizations, also a backlash against globalism, who will soon be capable of assembling nuclear do-it-yourself kits in any country they chose, and a number of authoritarian governments still reigning with a free hand. We are no longer in a world were we can sit idle and hope it all goes away. President Ahmadinejad may be sincere, but he doesn’t run Iran, the Mullahs do. And to always believe the intelligence agencies reports is as naïve as having initially believed Collin Powell’s presentation at the UN. What we need is leadership in America who doesn’t let extremism win, in any form, that comes from outside or inside its borders by evolving into anOrwellian state
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» RE: too many assumptions. Need to readdress the approach of leadership.
Posted by: common intelligence
» RE: too many assumptions
Posted by: saltoafronteira
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Posted by: Lector on Dec 28, 2007 11:50 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
All that the estimate of the NIE has done is to define weaponry down, to suggest a distinction without much difference between a "civilian" and a "military" dimension of the same program.
Acquisition of enriched uranium and of plutonium, for any purpose, is identical with the acquisition of a thermonuclear weapons capacity. Iran is continuing to strive to produce both and neither are required for civilian energy needs. Ask any nuclear engineer about this.
Pointless
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Erick Erickson Is the New CNN Go-to Bigot, Misogynist and Homophobe
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