Home
Archive
Newsletters
Video
Blogs
Discuss
About
Search
Donate
Advertise
Advertisement
Advertisement
Advertisement
Advertisement
Advertisement
Advertisement
  • AlterNetYour turn

Support AlterNet
Do you value the information you're getting from AlterNet? Please show your support with a tax-deductible donation.


Feedback
Tell us how we're doing.

Advertisement
Advertisement

The American Dream, or a Nightmare for Black America?

By Joshua Holland, AlterNet. Posted December 17, 2007.


Forty years after the Civil Rights Era, African-Americans are falling further behind whites economically.

Share and save this post:

      

      

Share on Facebook       

AlterNet Social Networks:
follow us on twitter
find us on Facebook

More stories by Joshua Holland

Advertisement
Upcoming AlterNet stories on Digg

Thirty years after the civil rights era, middle-class African-American families face a grim reality: their kids are far more likely to experience downward mobility in today's economy than they are to move up.

For both black and white families, America's vaunted upward mobility is largely a myth, and research suggests that Americans actually enjoy less upward mobility than people in many other wealthy countries. (I discussed this phenomenon at some length in a recent article.) But the outlook is different for white and black families.

A new study by Julia Isaacs, a fellow with the Brookings Institution, paints a dark picture for black families, and especially for the large group of African-Americans who moved up and into the middle class following the hard-fought gains of the 1950s and 1960s.

Isaacs looked at a unique set of data, one that allowed her to compare the incomes of people in their 30s in 2004 with their parents' generation in the mid-'70s (this allowed her to compare people at the same general stage in their careers -- apples and apples).

While white men's incomes have been stagnant for the past three decades -- for both white and black families, most of the increase in family income was a result of women entering the work force rather than wages increasing -- the current generation of 30-something black men actually earn, on average, 12 percent less than their fathers did in the mid-1970s.

That trend toward downward mobility has an enormous impact on the black middle class. While children of middle-class whites tend to do better than their parents did at the same age, a majority of middle-class African American children do worse than theirs, both in income and in terms of their position on the nation's economic ladder. According to Isaacs, "only 31 percent of black children born to parents in the middle of the income distribution have family income greater than their parents, compared to 68 percent of white children from the same income bracket."

The key findings from the study are truly eye-opening:

  • Startlingly, almost half (45 percent) of black children whose parents were solidly middle class end up falling to the bottom of the income distribution, compared to only 16 percent of white children.
  • Achieving middle-income status does not appear to protect black children from future economic adversity the same way it protects white children.
  • Black children from poor families have poorer prospects than white children from such families. More than half (54 percent) of black children born to parents in the bottom quintile stay in the bottom, compared to 31 percent of white children.

Given these dynamics, it should come as no surprise that the black-white income gap has risen, not fallen, in the decades since legal, institutional racism ended in America. In 1974, black families earned, on average, almost two-thirds of what whites did; by 2004, that number had fallen to 58 percent.

But looking at income alone misses a crucial part of the story. The differences in accumulated wealth -- in net worth -- are far greater than the differences in income, and that impacts black families' prospects of moving up in a big way. In Being Black, Living in the Red, Dalton Conley, director of NYU's Center for Advanced Social Science Research, showed that white families, on average, had eight times the accumulated wealth of black families who earned the same, and that remained true even when you adjust for education levels and savings rates. It is, as Conley told me in an interview last year, "the legacy of racial inequality from generations past."

Crucial to understanding how that impacts economic mobility is the concept of "intergenerational assistance." That's just a fancy way of saying that your chances to advance economically are very much impacted by whether your family can help with tuition payments, a down payment on a house or seed money to start a business. Conley compares two hypothetical kids -- one from a family with some money and the other without. Both are born with the same level of intelligence, both are ambitious and both work hard in school. In a true meritocracy, the two would enjoy the same opportunity to get ahead. But the fact that one might graduate from college free and clear while the other is burdened with $50,000 in debt makes a huge difference in terms of their long-term earnings prospects.


Digg!    Share on facebook   submit to reddit    Bookmark on Delicious   Stumble This  

See more stories tagged with: workplace, african americans, american dream, mobility, opportunity agenda, black america

Joshua Holland is an AlterNet staff writer.

Liked this story? Get top stories in your inbox each week from AlterNet! Sign up now »

Advertisement
Advertisement

 

Comments Turn comments off sitewide Give us feedback »
Comments closed.
The comments for this story have been closed. Thank you to everyone who participated.
View:
Last Hired, First Fired
Posted by: newtype_alpha on Dec 17, 2007 4:22 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As in so many cases in this country, the prohibition on racism hasn't eliminated it from American society or industry, it's merely been forced underground. Sort of reminds me of that old SNL sketch where Eddie Murphy disguises himself as a white man.

Eight months ago, my fiance and I conducted an experiment. Both of us sent applications for nine different job minimum-wage openings, including a resume which included the exact same experience and background in both cases (not to actually GET the job, just out of curiosity). We applied to each job twice, once using our own names and real backgrounds, listing our ethnicity on the application as "black non-hispanic", and once using "Humberto Martinez" and "Christine McCarthy" where I listed "hispanic" for my fake application and she picked "white" or "caucasian" for hers. The fake applications used the same background and experience as the real ones.

Surprise surprise: all nine of the fake applications got call backs in less than two days, where NONE of the "black, non-hispanic" resumes got a response.

Some of you out there may have had completely different experiences, others may have seen this in action. Either way, I think it's become obvious to most black Americans that, even now forty years after the fall of Jim Crow, we are still Last Hired, First Fired.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Last Hired, First Fired Posted by: hms2004
» RE: Last Hired, First Fired Posted by: huels3000
» RE: Last Hired, First Fired Posted by: Cooltruth
Race seems to persist as a big issue. The overall issue in our times seems more to be class
Posted by: yellow on Dec 17, 2007 5:58 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The racial income gap is widening. This could be statistically because most of those becoming super wealthy are white. They may tend to skew the data.

It is true that much of the progress that the civil rights era made is being undone by globalization and the inequality creating policies of the Reagan Revolution and supply side economics which pulled the rug out from under the bottom 80% of the income tiers of all races.

Back in the early 1960s, before the 1964 Civil Rights Act and the War on Poverty, Well over a fifth of the US population lived in poverty. Most of this was due to Black poverty. Since that time the national poverty rate has come down to between 12% and 15%. Most of this reduction in the national poverty rate involved the reduction in Black poverty rates. Federal programs, Civil Rights legislation, and the expansion of federal government employment all contributed to this positive trend. In many ways the civil rights movement succeeded though of course more needs to be done.

The "Reagan Revolution" and the Volcker/Reagan Recession of the early 1980s absolutely destroyed the US middle class overall and slowed, but did not stop the growth of the Black middle class which is bigger now than it was thirty years ago. Progress has continued. The racial skewing of income distribution and slow down of class mobility is due to the fact that so much more wealth has accrued to White Upper Middle class earners throughout the upper 20% of the income tier. Most of this growth in income has accrued disproportionately to those in the upper 1%. There are African-Americans in that upper fifth and upper 1% than there was thirty years ago but the overall picture is miserable for most Americans, Black and White.

The point is that while race is still definately at issue, class is the real divide today as the overall distribution of income and wealth is worse than it has ever been in our recent history since 1929. Like Danny Glover, I back John Edwards for The Democratic Party presidential nomination in 2008.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Race and Class Posted by: Jbuuty
» Thanks! Posted by: slydad
» RE: Thanks! Posted by: yellow
» A better way to put it Posted by: slydad
» RE: A better way to put it Posted by: yellow
» What's not relevant? Posted by: slydad
Sorry, this comment has been removed from the system.
Nick
Posted by: shitsandgrins on Dec 18, 2007 12:38 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Great post Joshua.
Could I distribute to college folk and get some remarks?
Thanks

Peace
Nick

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Nick Posted by: Joshua Holland
It Starts With The Schools
Posted by: NoPCZone on Dec 18, 2007 1:11 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Our nation has traded separate but unequal segregated schools for separate and unequal education with middle class and wealthy white kids in private schools as working class and poor kids of all colors go to increasingly underfunded public schools.

What goes on in school is more than the formal instruction of the classroom. Folkways are learned, friendships are made, social networks are formed, peer pressure holds sway and many other things from school define who we ultimately become.

Forget all the blather about most private school attendance being about religious instruction- with most parents it's about social class and keeping little white girls from going to school with boys of color.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

The issue is much broader...so are the solutions
Posted by: skizum on Dec 18, 2007 2:17 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
from a 39 y.o. mixed race (black/white/native american); BS engineering BFA art & design; lived in urban, rural and suburban communities and europe; grew up in a household that started in the ghetto and ended in the suburbs...good perspective...

the root causes of racial imbalance regarding opportunity go even deeper than slavery in our country, although it is interesting to note the lack of a national monument to openly atone for and healthily evolve through the injustice of slavery.

it seems as though throughout human history common themes of social inequities have occurred on a regular basis. a broader theme regarding the juxtaposition of power and isolation seem prevalent throughout time.

we as individuals and a society, need to find a way to discover, ignite and unite our senses of a common compassion so that we are motivated to act in bringing about a more humane world. critical to this goal is the, "reframing the public understanding of power as civic engagement"

assuming i'm on the right track, allow me to extend these ideas into the realm of solutions. i believe that in order for any benevolent changes to occur in societies, there must be a fundamental shift in the conscious perspective of a majority of individuals in said societies. furthermore, if such a shift in consciousness could ever occur, it must appeal first to the sense of self interest and then extended as an interdependent communal interest.

to these ends, i have been working on developing a couple of platforms addressing a broad set of individual/social issues, including racial inequality, to catalyze such fundamental shifts in consciousness:

1) Universal Humane Needs Assessment (just launched) - a project to create the worlds largest signatory list based on identifying, verifying, and utilizing a set of elemental human behaviors inherently common to all of mankind. fundamentally, this project was inspired by my interest in understanding the roots of why the world is the way it is today, how we can understand it and change it. my observations and study have led me to believe that it is all based on human behavior, which is a topic of study most of us have no conscious idea about but are still permanently and intimately bound to it's influence. this is the next great frontier to discover.

2) My America Too (a year old) - this project is meant to inspire an informed and active citizenry, the cornerstone of any healthy (democratic) society. also on this site, there is an initiative called 'the iraq apology' that deals with finding common compassion.

both of these platforms are relatively new and so am i in the broader world of social justice issues communications. to this end, i am reaching out to network with folks who, like me, want to make a difference. perhaps there may be a natural extension of this communication that will inspire any of us in positive directions.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» fundamental to any solution Posted by: dover23
xtiml
Posted by: xtiml on Dec 18, 2007 5:19 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
what you meanthe picture shows they can make assinine tv just like the others do.and think they on top a da werld ma.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Do for self
Posted by: Lesha on Dec 18, 2007 5:32 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As a people we (blacks in America) have done more to help other folks than we have for ourselves.
We created a platform for Latinos, Asians, Indians and Arabs to take advantage of the opportunities the Civil Rights era fought so hard for.

Because blacks have neglected their own self interest while looking to live, immolate and support the progress whites and others, the income gap had widen to its current rate.

Until blacks learn to lookout for themselves, the situation will continue to worsen.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Do for self Posted by: rhinojos
» RE: Do for self Posted by: ALANHESTER
» RE: Do for self Posted by: Lesha
» Lesha- that's deep... Posted by: veggiegrrrl
Sorry, this comment has been removed from the system.
» Almost in total agreement Posted by: Everitt
» RE: Almost in total agreement Posted by: anonymous black writer
This comment has been removed from the site due to non-compliance with AlterNet's community policies.
This comment has been removed from the site due to non-compliance with AlterNet's community policies.
This comment has been removed from the site due to non-compliance with AlterNet's community policies.
This comment has been removed from the site due to non-compliance with AlterNet's community policies.
Racism isn't necessarily the problem
Posted by: reevolve on Dec 18, 2007 6:25 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Josh does a clever slight-of-hand here. He begins talking about middle class black families and then slips right into the typical bromides about blacks not being able to move ahead because of economic disadvantages (their parents can’t afford to help them with college tuition, they don’t have money to start a business, they go to poor, substandard schools, etc.) What is never fully explored is why some middle-class black kids who go to good schools and have educated and well-off parents still fall behind their white counterparts.

This is a complicated and interesting question, but “racism” is too easy an answer. Why is there more economic mobility among African and Caribbean immigrants, who are every bit as black as native-born African Americans? And what about the parents of these kids who achieved middle-class status during the 50’s, 60’s and 70’s when racial barriers were far more pronounced and prohibitive? Can we really argue that a black kid born today to a middle-class family in the suburbs faces greater racism than his parents did?

There is something else at work here.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Racism IS the problem Posted by: lefty010
» RE: acism IS the problem Posted by: reevolve
» RE: acism IS the problem Posted by: lefty010
» RE: acism IS the problem Posted by: reevolve
» RE: acism IS the problem Posted by: anonymous black writer
» You're lucky Posted by: asilsfable
» Jobs leaving the country Posted by: tapadance
Sorry, this comment has been removed from the system.
Race and Supporting Needy Family Members
Posted by: CrystalD on Dec 18, 2007 6:44 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There is a book I read, called "The Hidden Cost of Being African-American" by Thomas Shapiro. Also there is Michelle Singletary's "Color of Money" column in the Washington Post (highly recommended - she has some great advice). Both have pointed out that black people, far, FAR more than whites, are supporting needy family members. Shapiro profiled one black man with a very high income who, instead of saving or investing, was what his wife called "Bank of Kevin" because he gave...and he gave... and he gave to needy family members.

I also remember a New York Times profile of a (white) woman who rose from poverty to become a lawyer...and had to take in a niece and nephew when their own parents couldn't hack the parenting duties. This was before they could start their own family. And this situation is much more common with black people.

My point is that middle-class whites usually take it for granted that their parents will give THEM money instead of having to give their parents money; and that they won't be saddled with nieblings or cousins to raise. Whites, IN GENERAL (there are exceptions, I'm saying this to forestall any angry comments) don't have the family burden that black people have. So they can save their money. Loads and loads AND LOADS of middle-class whites have their parents put a down-payment on a house for them, to give one example.

Health burdens are another issue. Black people are disproportionately more likely to be disabled so severely they can't work, at an earlier age than whites. This means less time to save for retirement and a smaller Social Security check.

A good article on how middle-class blacks can lose all the gains in one generation is by Kai Wright and is in Mother Jones - I believe it was reprinted here on AlterNet. Wright talks of his father, a doctor, who dies broke and on Social Security disability. He had diabetes and died at about 60 - when most WHITE (and Latino and Asian, for that matter) docs are still working hard.

Lots and lots of little things add up to make life worse for black folks. It's things that most whites take for granted.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» "Ghetto Tax" Posted by: Joshua Holland
America as the savior of the planet...
Posted by: veggiegrrrl on Dec 18, 2007 7:32 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Shameful how America puts $$$ into everything else and everyONE else except improving the situation for our own citizens.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Sorry, this comment has been removed from the system.
Race and Class.... "Good" Jobs equalize somewhat but it
Posted by: picket on Dec 18, 2007 7:45 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
depends where one lives in this good ole USA, discrimination is still alive and well. Some people are just not honest about the real reality of life. Well off blacks like Oprah or Bill Cosby SEEM to blame poor blacks for not trying hard enough.

When I watched .."Country Boy" ..on PBS the poor white, no job problem was explored in an excellent series.

Good Jobs DO Matter...the wealthy 1-2% of our citizens make more $$$$$$$$$$$$ on free trade..overseas sweatshop slavery. So.........


Re THE AMERICAN DREAM..."You have to be asleep to believe it" George Carlin

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Who is the target audience here?
Posted by: nfamous on Dec 18, 2007 7:57 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Is this article targeted at whites? Blacks already know this and have for some time now. Whites pretend it doesn't exist because it benefits them and they just like to think blacks are lazy, tupid and criminal. The whites that aren't outright racist don't want to rock the boat which amounts to tacit complicity in the problems. If you see a wrongdoing and do nothing to stop it you may as well have done it yourself.

These articles do nothing except take the life and breath out of black people. Non-black US minorities like Latino and Asians come here and have no expectations at all. Whites embrace Asians as their own and Latinos don't mind starting from the bottom. Blacks shouldn't be relegated to that position since we've been here as long as whitey but white apathy and antipathy have long categorized our existence, here and abroad.

My point is if you're not going to do anything to fix the problem then stop talking about it. Blacks are tired of hearing it, whites don't believe it and immigrants just ignore it in their quest to assimilate for a buck they could never earn in their own country because of this country.

Everyone, including whites, needs to realize that white people practice rhetorical ethic. They pretend to care about other people only as a front. They are completely self-serving and seek to take advantage of white skin whenever possible. If white people are really so great then why do they need an advantage over everyone else? Exactly. Don't believe the hype. Whitey don't care and whitey never will. In their hearts and minds blacks and other nonwhites are another species barely worthy of living amongst them to make money for them.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Who is the target audience here? Posted by: Joshua Holland
» Lumpy Posted by: benzene
» this is racist crap Posted by: psychochurch
» RE: this is racist crap Posted by: anonymous black writer
Abolish Affirmative Action
Posted by: Sociallibertarian on Dec 18, 2007 8:03 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I found the comment most interesting that Caribbean blacks and Africans do much better than African Americans. They are less poor. Why is that? Are they not dark skinned?

As I have moved from semi socialist Sweden to the US I can see one of the main differences. In Sweden we never have had Affirmative Action it has been seen as a way putting people down. It gives people a very poor mindset. They do not have to strive to be given benefits, you get them because of your race or gender. In Sweden the belief of all parties has always been that you have to deserve the support that you are given and that it is only temporary, not permanent. You have to strive and work hard even if you are disadvantaged. You cannot forever see yourself as a victim.

I wonder if the case for African American lack of mobility is not in great part in the mindset? African Americans have stopped striving because their leadership has told them that White America owes them and that White America has to compensate them.

Communists in Sweden and radical greens are trying to get Affirmative Action in Sweden as well. Fortunately so far it has been overtrhrown in the courts as being against Universal Human Rights, it has been seen as unfair discrimination i.e reverse discrimination.

In my opinion Affirmative Action violates the consitution as it is reverse discrimination.

(The European Union has a Supreme Court for Human Rights issues that is based on the UN Charter of Human Rights and adapted to European conditions . Its charter is underwritten by all EU countries and is part of their national law.

It gives opinion if member states violates basic Human Rights such as:

* unfair discrimination
* right to religious freedom
* vialotions of Habeus Corpus
* the right to Justice

European Court of Human Rights

http://www.echr.coe.int/echr/ )

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Sweden is not the US Posted by: benzene
» Slavery is not the issue, mindset is Posted by: Sociallibertarian
» RE: Slavery is not the issue, mindset is Posted by: anonymous black writer
» RE: everse discrimination is a myth Posted by: Sociallibertarian
» RE: everse discrimination is a myth Posted by: anonymous black writer
Let's put the race issue out of the way already and focus on the real issue.
Posted by: maxpayne on Dec 18, 2007 8:14 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As for the "American Dream", it'll stay a DREAM because the DREAM consists of things that just won't happen in REALITY. Case CLOSED !

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

This comment has been removed from the site due to non-compliance with AlterNet's community policies.
» Centuries of Racist Science Posted by: benzene
Get rid of...
Posted by: Azraelsjudgement on Dec 18, 2007 9:16 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Federal Reserve. Theres your number one culprit for destroying all of us little people while keeping the corrupt bankers, politicians, and Corporations in power. Get rid of the Fed, period.
Then people need to stop obsessing about people's skin pigmentation. Talk about childish.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Its about the family
Posted by: huels3000 on Dec 18, 2007 9:17 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'll argue forever on this point. The cause of this reality is not a race issue, its a culture issue. The downward movement is manly due to home life, high rate of uninvolved fathers, less parents around, less money made.If you have three children, with one income, there is only so much a mother can do. The Family is the start, not the schools, not the rest of society. Its the attitudes that continue to cause these issues. Blame everyone for whats wrong. Your child fails or gets in trouble at school, blame the teachers. Your child gets arrested, blame the police. MLK didn't fight for us to point our fingers. Its not a black issue, its a social psychological thing. Our fingers must be turned on ourselves. Black men must take responcibilty for their lives and children. "If it is to be, it's up to me!" There are to many individuals who worked hard for what they've become and what they've earned. I refuse to believe I'm lucky or special. I'm human, And I chose to be disciplined, be hard working, and to blame only myself. I raise my children to respect authority, respect women and families, respect that life isn't easy, and most of all for themselves.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Bravo Posted by: Phenix
A review
Posted by: willymack on Dec 18, 2007 9:55 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Of our economic situation would reveal that, except for a favored few, we're ALL being screwed over. Color and ethinicity don't really amount to much, except that some fools fall back on some of the old lies that they used to describe economic inequality in the '50s & '60s (they're backward, obnoxious, lazy, stupid, etc.). What's holding up the parade now is that the neothugs are striving mightily to bring back the "good ol' days" of the Guilded Age, what with constant war and a visible "enemy" (who, of course, never gets caught) to distract us from the fact that brutal CRIMINALS are running things, and that unless you're in the exclusive Rich Boys' Club, you're SOL, regardless of color or ethinicity.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

A personal experience
Posted by: sarahk on Dec 18, 2007 10:04 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A few years ago, when our family ran a computer training business, our office manager was black. She was very efficient, spoke the Queen's English better than I did, and was polite to all the students, but I stopped counting the times that white students would pull us aside and say, " I'm not racist, But you don't want people thinking this is a black-owned business." Then they would give a pointed glance over at the office manager.
What would aggravate me would be how sweet-as-sugar these folks would be to her face, and then turn around and try to get her fired. Meanwhile, she was working hard and taking care of her adult son who had severe autisim. We could have been craven and fired her since her presence was obviously annoying to some of our clients, but that would not have been fair.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: A personal experience Posted by: anonymous black writer
This comment has been removed from the site due to non-compliance with AlterNet's community policies.
like I said before, and I'll say again....
Posted by: eosrk on Dec 18, 2007 10:40 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Racisim is forever!!!!!!!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

myopic
Posted by: zooeyhall on Dec 18, 2007 10:51 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Blaming it just on a vague "race" cause is myopic.

And for that matter, why then is Alternet publishing so many articles in favor of illegal immigrants? They compete much more in the race for the bottom with wages. And they are taking many jobs that used to go to black youths.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Education matters
Posted by: Phenix on Dec 18, 2007 12:14 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It does have everything to do with school and part of the problem is that many black teens do not want to learn. If you do not believe me then talk to a few inner city teachers. If they give you a glowing report then they are either extremely lucky or just lying.

Smart black teens are bullied or belittled for educational success. In my suburban high school my best friend, yea he was black, was belittled by other blacks because he was in honors English. The next year he dropped into regular English. He was doing fine in the accelerated course but he did not want to deal with being called white by the other black students. Yes I simplified the situation.

I saw the same thing happen to another black kid on my track team. His treatment was worse than my friend's since he actually grew up in the richer part of my district. I really do not know how he dealt with the BS but he pulled it off.

The bottom line is that black people turned their back on the Civil Rights movement. The original 1950s movement had nothing to do with affirmative action or government hand outs. The pioneers wanted their kids to get an equal education. They also STRESSED an education as a stepping stone to success.

In my opinion contemporary urban culture spits on the education system. Sure they have their reasons but in the end they bury themselves.

Their are myriad reasons for the economic and educational failings of urban America. In fact most are interconnected but do not use funding as an excuse. Cuba is getting along just fine with their educational budget. Philadelphia's school budget is over TWO BILLION dollars a year. I think you can effectively educate a city on that budget.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Education matters Posted by: cynik
» RE: ducation matters Posted by: Cooltruth
» RE: education matters Posted by: Lesha
» RE: education matters Posted by: yellow
» RE: ducation matters Posted by: anonymous black writer
Who haven't we blamed?
Posted by: Riverman on Dec 18, 2007 2:04 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A few questions raised by this article and the comments so far:

Does no one want to address the disparity between African/Caribbean immigrant economic outcomes and those of African Americans? Is that just too difficult a question? Because to me it's one of the most important questions that has come up, and it seems like there must be a pretty important reason everyone's dancing around it.

Blame: so far we've blamed institutional racism, history, "whitey" (and by the way I'd have removed those posts because that sure sounds like a slur to me), the Federal Reserve (!), affirmative action and lack of it, illegal immigrants taking jobs, black leadership, apathetic whites, the criminal justice system, people reading resumes, poor relations, dumb students making dumb comments, and probably some others I've already forgotten.

Am I the only one who sees blame as part of the problem? If I had to guess not one of the groups I just listed actually cares, even a little, about the issue of black economic progress. To believe you can make them care, even a little, is self-defeating. The safest, sanest assumption to me is: no external person, place or thing is going to care enough to solve my problem for me. Ever. So I'll stop banging my head on that particular brick wall and ask myself what can I do for myself, right now, in my own best interest, regardless of whatever the hell else is going on. Key word being regardless. Because there will always be other stuff going on.

Finally...to all those who think the rhetorical straw man "whitey" is doing great, getting ahead, saving every last penny for a rainy day, planning for his kid's college education...have you checked the current levels of household debt in this country lately? Might make you feel better, or worse, depending on who you like to blame.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Who haven't we blamed? Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Who haven't we blamed? Posted by: Riverman
» RE: Who haven't we blamed? Posted by: Joshua Holland
"Black" is self designated
Posted by: billwald on Dec 18, 2007 2:21 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is now against the law to ask for one's race in a job application. Anyone who volunteers it might be assumed to be looking for trouble.

Prior to WW2 black was black and white was white. There was very little mixing. Since '64 there has been much mixing and "black," in many cases, is a self designation that can't be determined by a quick visual inspection. How can I discriminate against someone I can't identify?

"Clothes make the man." I suspect that an educated black person who dresses for business and talks standard english will do OK. Black people who look and talk like white trash . . . what should they expect?

Middle class white people don't get upset over the existance of white trash. We ignore our bums and winos and hippies. Black people gots to get over their "one for all, all for one" attitude and admit the existance of black trash. If you black people don't like white people, teach your kids to learn from our Chinese, Japanese, and Korean people.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: "Black" is self designated Posted by: anonymous black writer
Mama he has more than me
Posted by: aprendi on Dec 18, 2007 2:35 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Isn't this really about more. Baby A snatches something from Baby B because Baby A simply wants that thing. Little children size up their candy portions, or their beverage portions admonishing their mothers, "...Mama he has more than me..."

Portugal, Spain, Europe, China etc snatched African people from their homelands for the sole purpose of reducing labor rates in their enterprises. The early settlers of the United States, and South America, having vast new lands to cultivate (after killing off the indigenous people) simply followed that model (for four hundred years in America!). Isn’t this about “more?”

I believe race has been the distracting little engine that could for this country. A lot of Black people feel locked into perpetual questions: can I be more; why am I less; is my life, my contribution, my worth superseded by the color of my skin? I am a walking, talking, open and obvious target for whatever White people want to project on me. Meanwhile a lot of White people feel right, smart, and happily entitled to function as the gatekeepers to “More” but in a nice way, in a corporate way, in a privileged education way. What could be simpler than knowing who gets “more” based the color of their skin? That is just plain lazy, unethical, and mindless thinking. And that’s the short story.

The bigger story is while your average Joe has been self righteously disenfranchising Americans of African decent, making sure they don’t have a basket to put any eggs in, the foxes were snatching the hens from the hen house. Isn’t this about more? So that when Reagan used the middle class as a buffer against the Urban Poor who he chided to pull their bootless selves up by their bootstraps, while instituting policies to transfer wealth to the money changers, the middle class agreed because in the end Reagan said it would “trickle down.”

But the trickle has trickled down to the global markets, and the middle class is no longer wearing the gold star. It should be coming clear. Black people are a market, White people are a market, and poor people are a market, and rich people are a market, and there is the global market, each to be manipulated, and exploited, or disenfranchised at the whim of the money changers. As it has come to pass, keeping a foot on Black Peoples neck has not saved America. To the contrary I think it has blinded us. Smart doesn’t have a color, a solution finder doesn’t have a color, and if you think so let’s not learn anything and let’s all just keep failing forward.

I could go on, but I won’t. I just want to ask if our collective endeavors, from slave trading, ethnic cleansing, corporate mergers, wars for oil (under the guise of preserving the American way of life)…etc are all really about “more,” perhaps we’d be more productive if we determined that we are simple operating on a collective premise that, there is not enough, for everybody and go from there because for sure, you cannot solve a problem you can’t acknowledge. And for the American People of African decent, the Black People, my people, please consider the difference in viewing ourselves with the race spin instead of seeing ourselves as an economic market, and that American Gansta ain’t just a moving picture show staring Denzel Washington.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Time to Quit BLAMING THE VICTIM
Posted by: sofla100 on Dec 18, 2007 3:05 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I just did some work for the Florida Dept. of Children and Family Services. The first thing they wanted to know was the "racial breakdown" of clients. The categories were:

1. Caucasian
2. American Indian
3. Black Hispanic
4. White Hispanic
5. Oriental
6. Black
7. Other

Also, not long ago, in reviewing some applications (for rating purposes) for a prestigious American law school, the first thing they categorized everyone by was race.

American society is fixated on the racial thing. Now, I don't know if so-called "affirmative action" has does a lot of good or not, considering the backlash it has created with the whites. But, I do know a lot of the racial questions asked by the government and schools pertain to this. Unfortunately, it has apparently not made much of a dent in the upward mobility of Blacks and minorities.

Finally, we must consider that race in American society is the primary identifier used all the time by the government for benefits, employers for jobs, landlords for housing, in everything and of everything.

Those who don't think so, that American society is color blind, are just kidding themselves. Now, although a "bad element" might be present in some quarters of Black society, the same type of element is also present in White and Oriental society. Therefore, it is a misnomer and it is unfair to blame Blacks, to blame the victims for the lack of upward societal mobility. One only needs to look at the long history of discrimination in America, the legacy of slavery and the terrible treatment accorded blacks and other minorities. It is just crap, therefore, to think that because it might be "illegal" to discriminate, that discrimination just goes away. Such is not the case in American society at all.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Quit BLAMING THE VICTIM Posted by: lefty010
Single parents - two parents
Posted by: green mom on Dec 18, 2007 8:00 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I don't understand how one can write an article about economic disparities between blacks and whites and not at least touch on the question of one vs. two parent households. Across racial lines, two parent families are economically more stable and resource rich than single parent households. There is more money, more time, more extended family suport, and more capacity for chores (homework) and fun. A much higher percentage of white households are two-parent than black households. It isn't the only factor that explains racial economic disparity, but it is one of the most powerful. That factor needs to be weighed to determine how much of the disparity is due to racism. It is just dishonest to treat marital status as irrelevant.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Single parents - two parents Posted by: Joshua Holland
Supporting Family Members
Posted by: Lily H. on Dec 18, 2007 10:48 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I, too, read the book by Thomas Shapiro, and noted
that Shapiro observed a most peculiar phenomenon
amongst white people not seen in minorities;
that is, that while many minorities thought nothing of helping other family members in need,
many whites didn't seem to feel similarly inclined. Also, that many whites, even when having
obtained resources via inheritances, etc., proclaim that they "worked hard" for what they got, even if they'd simply had it handed to them.
Also, keep in mind that many minorities
consider it an investment in another family
member by helping one another, and don't feel
impinged by any sense of loss of their own
resources. It's the old law of "diminished
resources" that rears its ugly head amongst
more "better-off" types.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

How are you viewing the problem?
Posted by: jackblack on Dec 19, 2007 2:17 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If one truly wants to find a solution to the problem of slavery following the facts that Joshua has laid out here may lead you there, but you might be surprised where you end up.

There is marked difference between the mobility of those who voluntarily come to America from the Caribbean and Africa and the children of those who were enslaved by America. If you find that fact strange perhaps it’s because you believe skin color has a greater impact on how a person acts and reacts than their experience. Experience defines action. The experience in question is slavery and racism.

There was slavery in the Caribbean and Africa, but not the same brand of slavery that occurred here in America. My thought, is not that some brands of slavery are better than others, but that the institution of slavery in America had its own special twist that made it much more destructive than what was done anywhere else in the world or at any other time in history.

The design of America slavery was to create human animals, a creature unaware and unconcerned with self or its humanity, so that the owner could profit from its labor. Creating this human animal required wiping out the being’s knowledge of itself, its relationship to others, its culture, language and country and, not permitting it to be educated in anyway. Not only did the American design of slavery and dehumanization fail but it severely damaged the humanity of the few million people it was imposed on. This damage is the reason for the statistical facts included in Joshua’s article. It’s not laziness or unwillingness - its damage that gets passed down from one generation to the next. And perhaps it skips a generation now and then.

America would not be America were it not for the labor and involvement of the people that it enslaved and their children’s continue involvement. But the problem is and has always been what to do about a few million people that were severely damaged when the society that enslaved them tried to remove them from the rolls of humanity. It is a huge problem and it has never been properly addressed. Black history month, educational outreach, charity, the civil rights movement, affirmative action and I think, all the other gestures of quick fix benevolence cannot adequately solve this one. If history is speaking at all it is clearly saying the words, “moving to the suburbs will not solve the problem nor will reparations”. And, having a nice little dialog on-line, so that progressives know how to formulate a platform will not solve it either. The questions that will lead the dialog forward are: How do we repair this kind of damage once it’s been done to people? How do we prevent it from ever happening again?

From its very beginnings America has done some irreversibly damaging things to humanity and the environment, in the name of accumulating wealth. It has continued to follow the same game plan from its inception up until this very day. It’s not just the children and grand children of middleclass blacks who are in jeopardy of falling back into the slave quarters. Every child in this country from the upper middle class downward now has equal opportunity to those quarters and the only way to change this fact is to make sure that there are no slave quarters for any child in America.

The problems presented to this society by those that were enslaved and their children will not go away until addressed for what they are: the result of America’s brand of slavery and a product of its greed! Solving the problem will require the work of the children of those enslaved and everyone else who lives here. The foundation of this countries wealth was built by the labor of the people it enslaved. If you think you can live here and not address the problem enslaving people created, you’re wrong. Don’t want to be part of the solution, go live somewhere else.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: How are you viewing the problem? Posted by: anonymous black writer
How are you Viewing the Problem? Cont.
Posted by: jackblack on Dec 19, 2007 2:19 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It will take centuries of work and commitment to reverse the impact that slavery has had on the enslaved, their children and the rest of our society. So long as you believe you can take the value of a person and their labor for granted you can’t begin to approach what has occurred and is occurring in America, much less what to do about it.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Hey there Yanks
Posted by: sumwoman on Dec 19, 2007 8:59 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Cindy McKinney just announced she will be running in the next election for the President of the United States.

Here's your chance to get your country back! This woman is awesome and inspirational.

Cindy McKinney for Prez

Canadians for Cindy!

I hope to god this exceptional lady wins the election and becomes the next president of the united states.

GO GURRRL!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Just Keep Hatin' Posted by: yellow
» RE: double standards? Posted by: sumwoman
» RE: double standards? Posted by: yellow
» RE: double standards? Posted by: sumwoman
» RE: R U nuts? Posted by: sumwoman
You got a ton of responses
Posted by: daw13 on Dec 19, 2007 3:16 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Some thoughtful, some silly. Lots of absolutist comments about human nature, social reality etc. Lots of defensiveness, guilt. Some real caring too. But not silence!

This is good.

Seems like another great opportunity to recommend that anyone who hasn't already get hold of Howard Zinn A People's History of the United States. And David Roedker's recent book Working Toward Whiteness. And google William Julius Wilson, Derek Bell and Critical Race Theory. Bottom line: racism is a form of class warfare, but does need special focus if only because this is how it's largely done in Amerika. Like Oliver Cox, who probably nobody's heard of, said so brilliantly: Capitalism, Fascism and racism are fully intertwined in this country. So did Dubois and lots of others, of course, but Cox was so damned eloquent.

The great dilemma of the radical left, it seems to me, is how to keep on downplaying race and still claim to give a shit about the underclasses.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» May I add ... Posted by: Joshua Holland
me999
Posted by: two on Dec 20, 2007 10:14 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A country can be rated on how aggressive it will be to others accordingly to how racist they are. More racist than more aggressive.

Two experiences lead me to know how racist our country is. About 40 yrs ago, my uncle a new immigrant doctor treating a black at the emergency room. Was told "no dont treat him treat the white man first". He responded "I will continue, he is a human being."

Then I worked at a employment office. Whenever a black came in I was to call my supervisor and tell him I had a number one here. I didnt and I kept sending them to corporations and in turn the companies did not hand them even an application. I lasted 3 weeks on the job.

Now it is done covertly. All sounds so equal and nice but not true. Immigrants from Europe lets say, will go with Uncle Joe to a factory job and get the job, while blacks sit fill out applications and not get hired. Then they go out into the world and are told over and over how some people are so lazy and they refuse to work. (this really did happen as told by the new immigrant)

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Grown Woman
Posted by: special1k on Dec 21, 2007 4:16 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
IF YOU WANT TO MAKE A CHANGE GO TO

WWW.RUNCYNTHIARUN.ORG!!!!!

IT'S TIME TO DO SOMETHING TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE FOR OUR FUTURE AND OUR CHILDRENS FUTURE! CHANGE IS NOW!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Grassroots Activism for Emancipation
Posted by: A. Servant on Dec 24, 2007 7:54 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Racism" can be seen as a symptom connected to institutionalized power/privilege inequities. Defined broadly, "slavery" is an institutionalized means of maintaining dominance of a select few over the many. Racism contributes to the continuation of slavery today.

Slavery in America today is subtle and affects almost all people irrespective of racial background. The reality is that most of us are being kept as slaves in a matrix of control; and we are acting in ways that maintain this system of slavery. We are being dominated, sickened, and imprisoned or threatened with imprisonment if we were to be "bad". And when our usefulness is over, we will be left to die or be killed. The lack of caring that we experience and too often fail to offer to others is not accidental--our indoctrination has been intentionally planned and executed by the slave masters.

Is there something we can do to ensure humane treatment for ourselves and our neighbors? If you're tired of being enslaved and seeing others threatened with increasing bondage, join us in Slaves Anonymous to start making grassroots changes that will improve the security of you and your family. You and your neighbors have the autonomy, creativity, diversity, passion and transcendence to become self-owners and create the conditions necessary for emancipation of your local community from the global tyranny of slavery or serfdom or corporatism or government or fascism or empire or debt-based money or psychopathy or whatever-you-want-to-call-it.

Let's work together: You stop it in your community; I'll stop it in mine.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]