Home
Archive
Newsletters
Video
Blogs
Discuss
About
Search
Donate
Advertise

Christian 'Ex-Gays' Brainwash Thousands

By Casey Sanchez, SPLC Intelligence Report. Posted December 15, 2007.


Can the anti-gay Christian Right's "sexual reorientation therapy" be stopped?

Share and save this post:

      

      

Share on Facebook       

AlterNet Social Networks:
follow us on twitter
find us on Facebook

In Special Coverage

Belief:
Is Blind Faith in God and the Bible a Modern Invention?
Devilstower

Corporate Accountability and WorkPlace:
Who's Paying for the Recession Most of All? Young Workers
Lizzy Ratner

DrugReporter:
Lies About Marijuana Drive People to a Much More Harmful Drug -- Booze
Steve Fox

Environment:
Why Max Baucus' 'No' Vote on the Climate Bill May Really Help Its Passage
Jeff Mcmahon

Food:
Soda Helps Make Americans Unhealthy and Fat -- Will Soda Tax Prevail Despite Pushback by Beverage Industry?
Christine Spolar, Joseph Eaton

Health and Wellness:
Do We Really Want to Enshrine Insurance Monopoly into Law? This and 5 Other Complaints About the Health Bill
John Nichols

Immigration:
NYC Marathon Raises Question of Who Is American Enough?
James E. Johnson, Jr.

Media and Technology:
How Biased Media Can Brainwash You
Melinda Burns

Movie Mix:
The Yes Men: Pranksters Out to Fix the World
Mark Engler

Politics:
4 Ways the Stupak Amendment Deprives Women of Access to Abortion
Jessica Arons

Reproductive Justice and Gender:
How the Stupak Amendment Radically Undermines Women's Rights
Rachel Morris

Rights and Liberties:
"Women Are Being Killed All Over the World": One Reporter's Fight Against So-Called "Honor Killings"
Robert S. Eshelman

Sex and Relationships:
9 Silly Things People Say When They Hear You Don't Want Kids (And Ways to Counter Them)
Liz Langley

Take Action:
G-20 Meetings: Nothing Much Happened in the Suites, and There Was Too Much Punch in the Streets
Laura Flanders

Water:
Why Natural Gas Is Not a Clean Energy Panacea
Stan Cox

World:
10 Suicides a Month at Ft. Hood -- War Stress Is Taking Soldiers to the Brink
Dahr Jamail

More stories by Casey Sanchez

Advertisement
Upcoming AlterNet stories on Digg


John Smid has a high school diploma, a minister's license and five acres of land outside Memphis, Tenn., where he "cures" homosexuals. For most of the past two decades, Smid's residential "ex-gay" program was known as Love in Action. The majority of the young men who entered the program came from the kind of conservative religious upbringing where being gay is a sin that will cast a person out of church, family and home. To rid themselves of "unwanted same-sex attractions" they paid $1,000 a month, with some staying at the facility for years.

At LIA, as it was known, staff would lead clients in group sessions to trace out childhood trauma alongside lessons in throwing footballs, changing motor oil and learning how to cross their legs in a manly fashion. In much of the world of ex-gay ministries, same-sex attractions are thought to result from childhood sexual abuse or parents who failed to instill masculinity in their sons. Since the goal is to rewire parent-child dynamics, LIA clients were forbidden to call their families. Those who worked in Memphis while living on the LIA compound had to navigate around a "forbidden zone" that covered nearly half the city, keeping them miles away from its handful of adult book stores. They were ordered to drive straight to and from work without speaking to strangers.

"On our way to work, we saw two cars get into an accident. We actually debated over whether we should stop," said Peterson Toscano, who lived at LIA for two years in the early 1990s and now helms an ex-gay survivors' movement. They didn't stop. "Looking back, I see how brainwashed we were. We were sick the whole day. We could have helped the people."

Toscano still has the 374-page LIA handbook that governed every day he spent trying to become heterosexual. Tom Otteson, another former client of Smid's, said he was told that "it would be better if I were to commit suicide than go back into the world and become a homosexual again." In 2005, Smid tried to clarify those comments to a reporter from the pro-gay Memphis magazine Family & Friends: "I said [to Otteson], 'It would almost be better if you weren't alive than to return back to the life that you have struggled so much to leave.'"

Unlike his clients, Smid was not isolated from the world. In 2005, when Tennessee officials investigated LIA for dispensing psychotropic medicine and treating minors without a license, it seemed certain the place would be shut down. But Smid kept his operation alive by countersuing the state of Tennessee with the help of senior counsel from the Alliance Defense Fund, the powerhouse legal arm of the Christian Right.



Today, Love in Action is part of a booming phenomenon that is also known as the "sexual reorientation therapy" movement, an effort that is reflected in the hundreds of programs attached to religious organizations across the United States. Although the stated aim of the movement is to turn gays straight and bring them to God, it actually now has as much to do with battling the gay rights movement by trying to prove that sexuality is not an immutable characteristic like race or gender. Ex-gay ministries began as redoubts for men and women trying to reconcile their faith and sexuality. But in the hands of the anti-gay Christian Right, they have become full-fledged propaganda machines depicting gays as sex-addicted, mentally ill, and stunted heterosexuals.
A Flourishing Movement


Love In Action no longer describes itself as therapy but as a "ministry." It ditched its residential program in favor of a $2,000, four-day "intensive" encounter for families and teens called Refuge. Focus on the Family, the largest and wealthiest Christian Right organization in the country, now hires Smid to appear several times a year on an ex-gay lecture circuit called Love Won Out, where he speaks on masturbation and "healing homosexuality."


Residential ex-gay treatment centers like LIA was in the 1990s are still rare. There are currently just three in America -- one in northern California, one in Kansas and one in Kentucky. But ex-gay "ministries" like Refuge are numerous. There are at least 200 such programs among the country's churches, religious counseling centers and religious college campuses. Smid serves on the board of Exodus International, an umbrella group representing 150 ex-gay ministries in 17 different countries.

Most of the people who run ex-gay ministries are not hatemongers and see their activities as a labor of love and compassion. "[They're] sincere, well-meaning people who are not in it for the money," says Toscano. But in recent years, the ex-gay movement has been co-opted by virulently anti-gay groups who routinely refer to homosexuality as an evil force that threatens to destroy America. These groups increasingly are hiring ex-gay activists as spokesmen, funding ex-gay research and establishing ex-gay ministries.


Focus on the Family, based in Colorado Springs, Colo., now runs its own traveling ex-gay ministry, Love Won Out, which has drawn crowds of several hundred in more than 50 cities since 2001. Christian Coalition founder Pat Robertson finances studies on ex-gay "conversion therapies," and the late Moral Majority leader Jerry Falwell, who once infamously claimed that gays, lesbians and other agents of liberalism spurred the 9/11 terrorist attacks, was a keynote speaker at a 2006 ex-gay conference. In Lynchburg, Va., both the church and the university Falwell founded have ex-gay ministries.

The American Family Association, another Christian Right group, distributes "It's Not Gay," a video that uses ex-gay testimonies -- including that of a man who has since admitted to holding gay sex parties -- to claim that 95% of gay couples are not monogamous. Separately, the AFA employs anti-gay junk science to claim that gays die very early and are far more likely to molest children than heterosexuals. (These claims, made by propagandist hatemongers like Paul Cameron of the Family Values Institute, are completely false and have been discredited numerous times by legitimate scientists.)

Leaders of Watchmen on the Walls, an international anti-gay group that blames the Nazi Holocaust on homosexuals, tell audiences that "one of the most important things you can do is start an ex-gay movement here." One of the Watchmen's members serves on the board of the Exodus International and was a keynote speaker at its recent conference. The Traditional Values Coalition, a major California-based organization listed by the Southern Poverty Law Center as a hate group for its virulent anti-gay activities, and Florida-based Coral Ridge Ministries have even created their own ex-gay holiday, National Coming Out of Homosexuality Day, falling one day after National Coming Out Day.

"Indifference or neutrality toward the homosexual rights movement will result in society's destruction," the American Family Association declared in a press release. "A national 'Coming out of homosexuality day' provides us a means whereby to dispel the lies of the homosexual rights crowd who say they are born that way and cannot change."

'New Creations'?

Reparative or sexual reorientation therapy, the pseudo-scientific foundation of the ex-gay movement, has been discredited by virtually all major American medical, psychiatric, psychological and professional counseling organizations. The American Psychological Association, for instance, declared in 2006: "There is simply no sufficiently scientifically sound evidence that sexual orientation can be changed. Our further concern is that the positions espoused by NARTH [the National Association for Research & Therapy of Homosexuality] and Focus on the Family create an environment in which prejudice and discrimination can flourish." The powerful American Medical Association, for its part, officially "opposes the use of 'reparative' or 'conversion' therapy that is based on the assumption that homosexuality per se is a mental disorder or based upon the a priori assumption that the patient should change his/her homosexual orientation."

Jim Burroway, who runs Box Turtle Bulletin, a website that tracks the ex-gay movement, says a key theme in ex-gay ideology is the idea that "there's no such thing as gay." Instead, gays and lesbians are described as "sexually broken" or heterosexuals who suffer from "same-sex attractions."

Sexual brokenness, according to ex-gay doctrine, usually occurs early in childhood, the result of an overbearing mother, an emotionally distant father, or sexual abuse. Focus on the Family ex-gay lecturers routinely and flatly declare that all gays and lesbians are victims of childhood sexual abuse.

About the only time the word "gay" appears in the ex-gay lexicon is in the phrase "gay lifestyle," which is largely seen as describing a hedonistic mix of one-night stands and sexually transmitted diseases that culminates in early death or abandonment when youthful beauty fades. The ex-gay movement has little language to describe the real world in which lesbians and gays hold elected office, appear on TV shows and raise families. At best, people like U.S. Rep. Barney Frank (D-Mass.) and talk show host Ellen DeGeneres are labeled as "gay-identified." Exodus President Alan Chambers and other, harsher ex-gay leaders call them "militant gays," simply because they are not actively working to renounce their same-sex attractions. Churches that accept gays are branded "false churches."


Still, even many ex-gay proponents admit that total conversion to heterosexuality is at best an elusive goal. Frank Worthen, who runs the ex-gay residential program New Hope out of an apartment complex in San Rafael, Calif., writes in his curriculum workbook Steps Out: "Our primary goal is not to make heterosexuals out of homosexual people. God alone determines whether a former homosexual person is to marry and rear a family, or if he (or she) is to remain celibate, serving the Lord with his whole heart."

'Ancestor Sin' and 40-Day Fasts


Exodus, which has a $1 million budget, and NARTH both provide referrals to ex-gay programs and therapists that offer a bewildering array of techniques and philosophies.

Exodus has over 150 evangelical ministries throughout the U.S. and in Australia, Canada, China, Europe, Japan, Latin America, the Philippines and Singapore. Most of the ministries are locally run but remain under the Exodus umbrella. A few of them target Latinos and African Americans, as well as the deaf. In the U.S., coordinators for 14 different geographic regions make sure that local ministries have Exodus accreditation and trained staff. Despite that, Exodus ministries seem to have as many approaches to ex-gay work as they do regions.


Exodus makes referrals to ministries like Living Waters, a popular neo-Pentecostal ex-gay program that treats homosexuality as a spirit that can be induced by "ancestor sin" and pushed out through exorcism. "We had pretty much a whole day dedicated to going through our entire genealogy and asking for forgiveness for the sins of our ancestors," said Eric Leocadio, who went through the 30-week program in his early 20s. He says he was also told to keep "certain boundaries in your friendship, never connecting with someone emotionally because you might fall in love with them."


During his time with Living Waters, Toscano said a pastor had him fast for a week at a time. "He said it was a matter of breaking through physical appetites related to lust. … There were others who fasted, sometimes for up to 40 days."


Secular ex-gay therapies, even if less physically demanding, are no less bizarre. On Ex-Gay Watch, a watchdog website, a woman named Pamela Ferguson describes the reparative therapy her ex-husband underwent as a last-ditch attempt to save their marriage. "I was once told to hold [my ex-husband's] penis in my hand as we fell asleep. After a week or two of this, [he supposedly] would be suddenly and inexplicably inflamed with desire for me." The couple declined the suggestion.


At "ex-gay barbecues" held at her house, Ferguson says she met several men who said they were asked to measure their penises and report the results to their group. All of them refused.


The longtime president of NARTH is Joseph Nicolosi, a licensed psychotherapist who teaches that any man who thinks he's gay simply "has failed to enact his masculinity." NARTH, based in Encino, Calif., is a referral service for its more than 1,000 members, who are both religious and secular ex-gay counselors (NARTH does not require members to be licensed or accredited). NARTH was founded by Charles Socarides, whose openly gay son later served in the Clinton administration as the first-ever liaison to the gay community.


One of Nicolosi's own former ex-gay patients, Daniel Gonzales, said most of his therapy sessions took place over the telephone. "Whenever I found myself attracted to a guy, I was supposed to befriend him and demystify him," said Gonzales. "It never occurred to [Nicolosi] that some of the guys I'm attracted to weren't straight." After spending a year in the $250-an-hour sessions, Gonzales didn't feel any less gay. He says he quit the therapy after realizing that "I would have to do these mental gymnastics for the rest of my life."


Wayne Besen, a former researcher for the pro-gay Human Rights Campaign, spent four years looking into ex-gay therapies for his 2003 book Anything But Straight: Unmasking the Scandals and Lies Behind the Ex-Gay Myth. At one ministry that he attended undercover, gay men were instructed to keep rubber bands on their wrist and snap them any time they felt themselves "watching someone erotically or engaging in fantasy." In another ministry, he held hands with other "strugglers" as they read an anti-masturbation prayer: "I build high dikes on the right hand and on the left hand and in Jesus' name I command that it shall not overflow to the left hand or the right hand, but it shall flow quietly in its normal channel."


Emphasis on the alleged link between masturbation and homosexuality is widespread in ex-gay therapy. Exodus board member and family therapist Jayson Graves, for instance, teaches on his call-in radio show that masturbation is a gateway to "same-sex attraction" because "it is a form of sex with yourself."

When Moms Go Bad


One of the most controversial ex-gay therapy techniques is "healing touch," which involves men striving to become ex-gay cradling and rocking other men in their arms. Last January, Richard Cohen, a licensed psychotherapist who claims to be personally ex-gay, demonstrated healing touch on CNN's "Paula Zahn Now" and Comedy Central's "The Daily Show." Cohen also demonstrated "bioenergetics," which involves beating on chairs with tennis rackets and screaming, "Mom, Mom, why did you do this to me?" When Cohen appeared on ABC's "Jimmy Kimmel Live!" one month later seated next to George Foreman, he demonstrated healing touch therapy by putting his arms around the former heavyweight boxing champion and explaining, "You comfort him and love him like he's your own boy."


After his disastrous TV appearances, both Exodus and NARTH scrubbed any mention of Cohen from their websites and released statements publicly disavowing healing touch therapy. Yet both organizations continue to promote healing touch through a program called Journey Into Manhood, whose leaders are featured at Exodus conferences and highlighted on NARTH's website. Journey Into Manhood is a nominally secular program founded by Catholic, Jewish and Mormon counselors. The counselors operate weekend outdoors retreats throughout the country that require men to bond with one another through wilderness adventures and holding each other in "non-sexual healing touch."


Alex Liberato went through 10 weeks of the Journey Into Manhood curriculum after he was outed as a gay man while a student at highly conservative Brigham Young University in Utah. Much of the curriculum centered on recovering early child-parent memories. But men were also required to hold one another. "It just seemed like it allowed guys to touch each other without there being sex," said Liberato. The thought of spending a concluding weekend in the Utah wilderness, having to uncomfortably touch and be touched by male strangers repulsed him. He says he was made to understand that nudity might also be involved. "I was in the parking lot. I just [back] got in my car and drove off," said Liberato.


Just this September, Texas ex-gay therapist Chris Austin was convicted of two counts of felony sexual assault on a patient and sentenced to 10 years in prison. (A judge later reduced that sentence to seven years of probation but fined Austin $2,500 and stripped him of his counseling license.) The charges were based on a complaint filed by Mark Hufford, a client of Austin's for over a year. Hufford testified that Austin held healing touch sessions that progressed to include nude massage and oral sex. Hufford originally sought treatment while married to a woman but has since accepted his gay identity, divorced and begun dating a man. In addition to his own counseling practice, Austin also operated the Renew homosexual recovery program at South MacArthur Church of Christ in Irving, Texas.


Austin was a member of NARTH and had written a treatment curriculum called "Cleaning Out the Closet." His wife ran a program for the spouses of "husbands who struggle with homosexuality." Austin's criminal conviction is the first widely known case of a therapist being convicted of sexual assault in conjunction with ex-gay therapy.

Arousing the Extremists

In the late 1990s, the most powerful anti-gay groups of the evangelical right underwent their own version of ex-gay therapy. It was an unlikely conversion -- most churches at the time held ex-gay ministries at arm's length, with their noses pinched. While many preached that homosexuality was a sinful choice, few wanted the stigma or controversy of hosting an ex-gay ministry.

Ethnographer Tanya Erzen spent a year observing New Hope Ministry, an ex-gay residential program in operation since the late 1970s, for her 2006 book, Straight to Jesus: Sexual and Christian Conversions in the Ex-Gay Movement. The program's director told Erzen: "Initially, all our opposition came from the Christian community, rather than the gay community. … It will take the church about one hundred years to really understand what we're doing."


Actually, it only took about 20 years. In 1998, two dozen of the country's leading Christian Right groups convened in Colorado Springs, Colo., at Focus on the Family's sprawling headquarters complex. Led by Janet Folger of the Center for Reclaiming America for Christ, the coalition of anti-gay groups called themselves "Truth in Love." They decided to spend $600,000 on advertisements in the New York Times and USA Today to try to make "ex-gay" a household word.


Folger spelled out the new strategy in an NPR interview, saying, "That ex-gays exist shatters the foundation of the homosexual movement." On ABC's "Nightline," she admitted to wanting to imprison gays through enforcing anti-sodomy laws that were later thrown out by the Supreme Court as unconstitutional. Regardless, Truth in Love officials maintained that their message was one of hope and compassion.


Initially, ex-gay therapists and ministers were elated at the money and attention from the wealthy and powerful Christ Right groups that had shunned them for decades. In 1999, the Family Research Council, created as a political arm of James Dobson's Focus on the Family, gave $80,000 to fund PFOX, or Parents and Friends of Ex-Gays. In return, PFOX president Anthony Falzarano -- a former male prostitute and confidante of closeted prosecutor Roy M. Cohn, the rabid anti-communist who persecuted homosexuals before dying in 1986 from complications of AIDS -- lobbied to keep anti-sodomy laws from being repealed in Louisiana. But Falzarano quickly realized that the new money infusion was really for lobbying against gay rights rather than expanding ex-gay ministries. Before the year was out, he had called a press conference to denounce anti-gay leaders. "Many of us in the ex-gay movement," he said at the event, "feel we're being used."

A Reach for Power

Today, PFOX is headed by Regina Griggs, the mother of an openly gay son. The group's goals have as much to do with transforming public schools as they do with changing people's sexual identities. In a move its officials aim to replicate nationally, PFOX, with the help of Alliance Defense Fund and the Thomas More Law Center ("Christianity's answer to the ACLU"), sued the Montgomery County School District in Maryland for the right to operate a high school ex-gay club. PFOX lost the suit but continues to distribute ex-gay literature in Maryland schools.

Exodus, which for decades had been an apolitical ministry, has transformed itself into a lobbying apparatus seemingly at odds with its nonprofit status as a ministry. This August, Exodus hired Amanda Banks, a lobbyist with Focus on the Family, to direct lobbying in the Congress and the U.S. Senate. Since her hire, Exodus says it has met with 55 national lawmakers. Banks claims that one unnamed U.S. senator regularly consults with Exodus to learn "how to talk about gay issues without sounding like a bigot."


A new spin-off organization called ExodusRoots sends out daily alerts to readers, telling them how to contact their local congressmen to testify against hate crime laws that would protect gays and lesbians. Incredibly, Exodus Vice President Randy Thomas uses his own experience being assaulted and gay-bashed at a Thanksgiving party in 1988 to argue against legislation that he calls "thought crimes laws." Thomas says he was rescued from the attack by a "pair of angry lesbians" but nonetheless insists that hate crime laws would make his life "as a former homosexual less valuable now than when we were living as homosexuals."


Other heavy hitters on the Exodus board include Phil Burress, a star organizer for the Christian Right who tapped into a personal database of 1.5 million voters and raised more than $3 million in a few weeks to support Ohio's 2004 anti-gay marriage initiative. Exodus Chairman Melissa Coffey headed the ex-gay Regeneration Ministries while working as an aide to U.S. Rep. Rich Boucher (R-Va.) and a staff assistant to the government's 9-11 Commission. She now travels as a guest lecturer and speaks on "The Journey Through Lesbianism."


Both Chambers and Thomas, the president and vice president of Exodus, met with President George Bush in the summer of 2006 as part of a delegation to lobby for a constitutional amendment barring same-sex marriage. And James Holsinger, Bush's current nominee for U.S. surgeon general, founded a church in Kentucky that operates an ex-gay ministry. In 1991, Holsinger submitted a white paper to his church -- "Pathophysiology of Male Homosexuality" -- that argued that gays and lesbians can alter their sexuality through prayer and willpower. Holsinger has since changed his views and now runs workshops on lesbian health issues.



But enthusiasts and ideologues of the ex-gay movement haven't given up hope that science will confirm their view.

Playing With Numbers


To back up their claims that homosexuality is purely a deviant lifestyle choice, ex-gay leaders frequently cite the Thomas Project, a four-year study of ex-gay programs, paid for by Exodus, that recruited subjects exclusively from Exodus ministries. It was conducted by Mark Yarhouse, a psychology professor at Pat Robertson's Regents University, and Stanton Jones, provost of Wheaton College, an evangelical institution in Illinois. Both are members of NARTH. The study was conducted entirely via 45-minute telephone interviews conducted annually over the course of four years. Results were published this September.

Of nearly 100 people surveyed, only 11% reported a move towards heterosexuality. But no one in the study reports becoming fully heterosexual; according to the study's authors, even the 11% group "did not report themselves to be without experience of homosexual arousal, and did not report heterosexual orientation to be unequivocal and uncomplicated."


The researchers had originally hoped for 300 subjects but, according to an article in Christianity Today, "found many Exodus ministries mysteriously uncooperative." Over the course of the four-year study, a quarter of the participants dropped out. Their reasons for quitting were not tracked.

Nevertheless, the study was hailed by Exodus, Focus on the Family and the Southern Baptist Convention as "scientific evidence to prove what we as former homosexuals have known all along -- that those who struggle with unwanted same-sex attraction can experience freedom from it."


Even more remarkably, Focus on the Family cites a 67% success rate. It came up with that number by counting as "successes" subjects who practice chastity or were still engaged in homosexual acts or thoughts "but expressed commitment to continue" the therapy.


Despite its rhetoric that "freedom from unwanted homosexuality is possible," Exodus officials seem quietly aware that few, if any, of the thousands of people who participate in their ministries actually change their sexual orientation. Exodus pamphlets with titles like "My Fiancé(e) is Ex-Gay: Are We Ready for Marriage?" and "Women & Ex-Gay Men: Establishing Healthy Boundaries" present ex-gay status as essentially an act of faith.


"Why do ex-gay men pursue women?" one pamphlets asks. The answers offered describe the ex-gay movement itself: "Social Expectation … Self-Reassurance … Blind Faith."

Wink and Nod


One of the first things to strike a newcomer to any Exodus conference is how much it seems to play to stereotypes of gay men. At Revolution, the name Exodus gave to its conference this June at Concordia University in Irvine, Calif., the young men attending wore designer jeans and tight-fitting T-shirts. They had pierced ears and expensive haircuts. Burroway, the gay man who tracks the ex-gay movement for Box Turtle Bulletin, describes Exodus conferences he's attended as "one of the gayest things I have ever been to."

At the June conference in Irvine, which promised "complete, sudden, radical change," Exodus Vice President Randy Thomas, the master of ceremonies, dangled his wrists as he made self-conscious jokes about how much he likes the Seattle Seahawks since Tiger Woods took them to the Stanley Cup. Announcing a free Friday afternoon for conference attendees, his voice grew high-pitched when he told the audience, "There's plenty of shopping."


In short, Exodus attendees were free to nod and wink at their gay pasts. After all, as many ex-gay leaders say, "No one chooses to struggle with same-sex attraction." But a glance at Exodus seminars reveals that the road to "healing" is paved with plenty of self-hatred.


Seminars at the Irvine conference boasted militant-sounding titles such as "A Hero's Journey: Fighting the Battle of Your Life." One of the featured speakers was Michael L. Brown, author of Revolution: The Call to Holy War and a millennial Jew who once described the red T-shirts worn by his ministry students at a gay rights march counter-demonstration as "the shed blood of Christ flowing toward the gates of hell."


On Exodus' opening day, Brown's comments were no more reserved. To stand-up applause, he quoted from the Black Panthers and told the thousand members of his audience that the fight against gay civil rights is a "cause worth dying for."


Before the four-day Exodus conference came to an end, Focus on the Family and Exodus spokesman Mike Haley showed a final video clip on the gargantuan multimedia screen. By that time, the audience was in a weakened emotional state. Over the past four days, they'd been repeatedly told they had failed as parents, failed as boys and girls, failed as husbands and wives, and that their failure to change may lead them to fail God as well.


The video showed a local evening news segment from a town in the Midwest. A soldier is granted an unexpected furlough from Iraq. He makes a surprise visit to his son's first-grade classroom. The boy curls up in his father's arms, crying uncontrollably. Most of the audience was soon doing the same.


"I want you all to have the strength of that little boy," said Haley.

Harm? What Harm?


The same weekend as the Exodus Revolution conference, just a mile down the road at the campus of University of California-Irvine, 100 men and women gathered for the first-ever Ex-Gay Survivor's conference, subtitled "Undoing the Damage, Affirming Our Lives Together." For some, it was a space to heal. Scott Tucker, another alumnus of LIA who is now openly gay, said that for years he faulted himself for failing to turn straight until he realized the programs had the opposite effect, isolating him in a "ghetto" of gay men trying to become straight.

For others, it was a place to challenge Exodus and turn its message of "change is possible" upside down. "Yes you can pursue change. But at what cost?" said Toscano. He and other ex-gay survivors invited Exodus President Alan Chambers and other ex-gay leaders to an off-the-record dinner. "From knowing quite a few of you personally, we know that you have a heart to help people and to serve God. You meant to bless us," read the invitation. "Too often once we leave your programs, you never hear about our lives and what happens to us."


Exodus officials declined the invitation.


Shawn O'Donnell, who spent a decade in ex-gay ministries beginning when he was 15, chalked up his experiences on a blackboard at the Ex-Gay Survivor's conference. "I see now that going through these ex-gay experiences caused harm in my life. I heard the message loud and clear that I was a horrible person. I began cutting on myself at such an early age because I just couldn't deal with the fact that I was gay," wrote O'Donnell. "I grew to hate myself and tried to take my life a few times."


O'Donnell later posted the same comments on his blog, receiving a stream of supportive comments. Exodus' Chambers, who frequently challenges the posts on ex-gay survivors' sites, wrote back: "Harm? Come on, Shawn. No one is being harmed by Exodus offering people a choice. You KNOW better."


Behind closed doors, though, Exodus' president admits to struggling with homosexuality every day of his life. "Every day, I wake up and deny what comes naturally to me," Chambers told a private audience of about 75 "strugglers" at an ex-gay conference held in Phoenix last February.


If there's any doubt where the ex-gay leaders are taking the movement, Chambers clarified it this September, speaking to a Who's Who of the anti-gay Christian Right at the Family Impact Summit in Brandon, Fla.


"We have to stand up against an evil agenda," Chambers told his fellow hard-liners. "It is an evil agenda and it will take anyone captive that is willing, or that is standing idly by."


Emily Brown and Janet Smith contributed to this report.

Digg!    Share on facebook   submit to reddit    Bookmark on Delicious   Stumble This  

See more stories tagged with: christian, "ex-gay"

Liked this story? Get top stories in your inbox each week from AlterNet! Sign up now »


Advertisement
Advertisement

 

Comments Turn comments off sitewide Give us feedback »
Comments closed.
The comments for this story have been closed. Thank you to everyone who participated.
View:
Not All Christians Are This Way- Thank God
Posted by: NoPCZone on Dec 15, 2007 2:04 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
My Freshman roomie in college was a gay man who grew up in Searcy, Ar, a town that is the epicenter of a large and very conservative denomination that virtually ran the town. Listening to him tell me about his hometown, it was obvious how wrong the common (then and probably now) viewpoint on homosexuality is and how hurtful and toxic it really is.

The Bible says many things, but clearly communicates that God loves all creation and extends his offer of reconciliation to all. Nowhere have I seen it written that Christians or the Church are to legislate morality for the society at large, 'convert' homosexual people, discriminate against others or pass judgement on their standing with God. The Bible does tell followers to love others as you would like to be loved, to love God and seek grace, mercy and peace.

Jesus was harshest upon the self-pious during his ministry, calling them whitewashed tombstones- essentially posers. He said that for all their professions and actions their hearts were very far from God. These were the leaders of their day in that culture. He showed great compassion for the outcast, the poor and the compassionate.

When people who claim to be Christ followers (Christians) of whatever denomination act in this way they are ignoring the very heart of the teachings of Jesus- the very person they hold to be the center-point of their faith. The 'liberal' churches that are widely derided by the fundamentalists, who welcome all who wish to come, are much closer to the gospel I see in the Bible.

One of the foundations of almost all Christian teaching is that people are free moral agents and are singularly responsible to God for their actions. To me that means that regardless of whether people are born or choose to be LGBT, it's none of my business. It's between them and God- period. It is, however, my responsibility to love them and extend to them the grace and kindness that I would wish for myself.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Some thought required
Posted by: talkville on Dec 15, 2007 3:04 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A real linguistic and logical phenomenon is constantly being utilized and not always in the best interests of the oppressed. To establish Identity of the General and the Particular is a tried and true operation used by dominating classes in history.

Using the word "Christian" to describe particular and specific people engaged in distorting and oppressing others such as in this case of the "curers of gayness" merely maintains what we all need to think about more carefully. The adjective "Christian" as well as "Islamic" or "Jewish" or any other belief structure to describe particular individuals achieves nothing but division and does not clarify things much.

These are specific and individual people and groups who engage in actions against Others' choices in living in this world. Such people are "retarded", in the strictest reference and meaning of this word.

The actions of people that perpetrate this damage upon countless Others can only be described as Idiotic, in the most strict and Greek meaning and reference of that word; they may rely on masks of Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Buddhism or any other of the metaphysical belief structures that guide many others.

It's good to refresh oneself with works such as "The Idiot" by Dostoevsky. When Idiots achieve Power, it's time to rebel. In such times we all are living.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Some thought required Posted by: morticia
» RE: Some thought required Posted by: talkville
Whenever someone insists that orientation is a choice...
Posted by: thornwolf on Dec 15, 2007 3:23 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Ask them to tell you about the day they chose to be hetero. Of course, they can't because it wasn't a choice.

Jesus said many things about his "heavenly father" but anti-gay he did not say. In fact, Jesus seems to have had nothing at all to say about homosexuality, which, for a follower of Jesus, ought to mean it wasn't important enough for him to comment on. Amen to that.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» And that can be done. Posted by: slydad
But what about St. Paul?
Posted by: atheistcable on Dec 15, 2007 3:51 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
>> I've never been a Christian, but I am quite familiar with that religion and in the NT it appears that another god is worshippped--beyond the Trinity. St. Paul is another rather powerful and influential god, and he repeatedly condemns homosexuality. I hear Baptists say, "Yes, but it's in the Bible! And everything in the bible is the perfect word of god!" -- I have never understood what the Trinity was, even though I've asked many Christians to explain it to me. I'm told it's a three-in-one god, and yet they contradict themselves by saying that one god is the father and another god is his son and the "holy spirit" is a third god. But they're all one god. Okay, so the first god speaks in the OT and thoroughly condemns homosexuality. If the son and father are one god, then the second god, Jesus, already spoke in the Old Testament, so why should he repeat himself in the NT? And besides, I was told that St. Paul was inspired by the Trinity to write what he did. -- The Baptists and Pentecostals are the ones who focus on the hatefulness of St. Paul more than they do Jesus. I think it would be much better to throw the OT/NT away. One simply does not need a holy book to guide them through life. Millions of people in countries all over the world do not believe in, follow or worship any god, and among them you'll fine the most rational, intelligent and compassionate people. Those antagonistic to this idea will bring up people like Joseph Stalin, Pol Pot, etc. as tyrannical atheists. In fact, they were ideologues, like other religious tyrants, and suppressed freedom of intellectual expression and murdered innocent people freely--just like Christians have been doing since the inception of this religion.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: But what about St. Paul? Posted by: Moira61
Sorry, this comment has been removed from the system.
So very sad!
Posted by: Gravitas on Dec 15, 2007 4:16 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So very sad that we can't accept homosexuality as a natural variation in the human condition. Conservative Christians are holding society back from progressing.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: So very sad! Posted by: Lilykins
» RE: So very sad! Posted by: crombie
Science not part of the equation
Posted by: mombot on Dec 15, 2007 4:33 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It seems that no matter what science proves, these people continue to lie about homosexuality. We're born one way or the other and no amount of "therapy" is going to change that. If any of my sons are gay, I'd not want someone to think I abused him! (snort)
Some of these individuals touting such programs must be in denial that they are in fact gay. Why, "healing touch" therapy must do something for its inventor!!! LOL

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

The Christian Message Is Based on Hope
Posted by: rcase on Dec 15, 2007 4:55 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Christian message is based on hope and change. People can be related to a loving God and live lives of wholeness. It is a cruel world indeed when people are told that their lonliness, or addictions, or destructive behavior is something they were born with and there is no hope ever of change. No wonder there is such depression in our society. Articles like this one add to that depression.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Major correction.... Posted by: CatDad
These folks aren't very bright - including the victims
Posted by: defrag on Dec 15, 2007 5:23 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm gay and after reading this, find myself thinking the victims weren't too bright to begin with.

Adolescence is different; then the combination of hormones and suicidal thoughts can be lethal. But after one grows up and is in one's twenties or thirties, who takes their parents this seriously? Who takes their parents' generation this seriously? I just can't identify.

If a gay adult is still drawn to Christianity there are several welcoming denominations, even in the South. The United Church of Christ is probably the best-known and there are also specifically gay ministries like the M.C.C. in large cities. Did these guys spend the gay part of their adult lives in "adult" bookstores and never heard about that stuff? But even there, most likely, they could have picked up the free local weekly gay paper and noticed the church ads!

I can see that the ex-gay movement wants money from their victims - and the sums mentioned in the story aren't paltry - but aside from the money, where exactly is the "harm" in a legal sense? Can ex-gay ministries "be stopped," as the headline says? Well, no... a well-known P.T. Barnum quote comes to mind...

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Lucky for you... Posted by: buffeliscious
» A lawsuit wouldn't get far Posted by: defrag
Electroshock Therapy Works!
Posted by: OUTinMinnesota on Dec 15, 2007 5:50 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
My fundamentalist parents had me undergo therapy to cure same-sex attractions.

I'm still gay. And now I have amazingly strong aversions to my parents and to organized religion.

Yes, electroshock therapy definitely works.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

What Jesus did
Posted by: kenhymes on Dec 15, 2007 6:17 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What Jesus did was seek out the other, the marginalized, the insulted, the hated, the ones told they could never be part of things that mattered. What Jesus said was that they were the first ones in his reality, and the ones who clung to privilege and status were the last. What Jesus did was take every chance he could find to turn the priorities of the social structure upside down. The deals the church cut with the Romans, the evils of the Medieval church, the insane rantings of the modern-day fundies, none of these things can undo the truth: Jesus would be walking in Gay Pride parades, not hanging out with suburban mega-church homophobes.

I am not trying to convince the non-Christians, because I know there is so much wrong with the Bible and the church that that is a whole other conversation. I just want to say loud and clear to the other Jesus-followers out there: follow him, which means lift up the oppressed, do justice, walk in love.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: What Jesus did Posted by: Lauren
» RE: What Jesus did Posted by: atheistcable
» RE: What Jesus did Posted by: TheDreamer
» RE: What Jesus did Posted by: Lauren
» RE: What Jesus did Posted by: kidsis
» RE: What Jesus did Posted by: HoboHomo
RODNOX
Posted by: RODNOX on Dec 15, 2007 6:26 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
WHILE MY FEELINGS ABOUT HOMOSEXUALITY ARE NOT FORMED IN CONCRETE MY TOTAL REPULSION AND DISGUST OF ORGANIZED RELIGION IS QUITE SOLID.AFTER STUDYING RELIGION FOR YEARS IT IS QUITE OBVIOUS IT IS A CRUTCH--A PATH FOR PEOPLE WHO CANNOT DEVELOP NORMALLY.ON THE OTHER SIDE IT IS A TOOL OF CONTROL---BLIND RESPECT---PEOPLE LET IT TAKE OVER THEIR LIVES.ORGANIZED RELIGION IS VERY LIKE THE MILITARY.PEOPLE BLINDLY OBEY A FEW LEADERS---USUALLY THE LEADERS ARE QUITE DEFECTIVE---IN MILITARY AND RELIGION...REMEMBER THE TOWER OF BABEL STORY---WHERE GOD TRIED TO CONFUSE US BY MAKING DIFFERENT LANGUAGES ??..PROBABLY NOT THE CASE---WE AS A SPECIES GOT PAST THAT---WHAT WE CANT GET PAST IS DIFFERENT RELIGIONS...........

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: ODNOX Posted by: Lauren
Is the Abomiable Snowman Gay?
Posted by: lc on Dec 15, 2007 7:30 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Anti-homosexual comes from the Bible stating all things considered an "abomination." Many things are considered an abomination from eating pork or shellfish to eating the same sex. The biggest abomination is extramarital sex which Christian fundamentalists do not equate as the same abomination as homosexuality.
The word abominable is a rather generic way of stating the unusual. It is not a moral judgment any more than eating shell fish. Thus, when Christian English explorers to the Himalaya mountains first saw examples of the Yeti as it is called in Nepal, they called it "abominable" because they lacked any other word to convey the uniqueness of such a find.
The Yeti, Sasquatch, Big Foot and the Abominable snowman are unique and unusual but they are not "gay" or homosexual. Christian bigots have made an abomination of the word abominable. If only they would read their own Bible instead of enslaving their souls to self righteous charlatans who lead them down abominable paths to spiritual self destruction.
IM
Belteshazzar

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Just ignore this social issue and get to the real issues PLEASE !
Posted by: maxpayne on Dec 15, 2007 7:46 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This has happened long before this even became an issue. And don't tell us that Christians are bad people because not all of them are the typical rightwing fundies that you might have come across !

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Liberals crack me up Posted by: skipp
Nature vs. Nurture
Posted by: jmmartin on Dec 15, 2007 8:27 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Thanks, Mr. Sanchez, for the most extensive, comprehensive, incisive article on the ex-gay movement that I have seen (including those published in print zines like The Advocate). (I'm going to apologize at the outset for being Luddite when it comes to html: I only wanted to italicize certain words, but the program italicized my entire comment, and I could not make it go back to plain text.)

At the very heart of the controversy concerning reorientation therapy is the long-running debate on whether gays are born or "made." Nature versus nurture.

An examination of the motives of the reorientationists inevitably leads to the conclusion that they are motivated not by some altruistic desire to "help" anyone but to add numbers to their agenda. By convincing the world that since "gay" is something you do rather than something you are, stigmatization of gays might appear understandable and even proper. These are the same people who -- even in the wake of the brutal bludgeoning of Matthew Shepard and the other instances of fatal gay-bashing -- argue against adding sexual orientation to hate crimes legislation. (How Christian is THAT?)

Their position is well represented by Scott Lively, a hateful, mean-spirited recovering alcoholic and ex-drug addict who, as president of Defend the Family, wrote a paper, "Deciphering 'Gay' Word-Speak and Language of Confusion," stating:

"[Homosexual activists] argue that homosexuality must be innate because no one would choose to be 'gay' and incur the resulting social stigma. This argument is invalid, since many people choose lifestyles that others condemn....There is a very considerable body of testimony from tens of thousands of men and women who once lived as homosexuals. These 'ex-gays' have renounced their former lifestyles and many have become heterosexual in self-identification and desire, while others have stopped at the point of comfort with their own gender and freedom from same-sex desires...."

This assessment says more about Lively than homosexuals, as the writer betrays more than one myth about the gay sexual orientation. It matters not a whit whether homosexuality is hot wired or soldered on at some point in one's personality development. Once a homosexual, always a homosexual: the "ex-gays" are really just gays in deep, self-oppressive denial. By overwhelming numbers, psychiatrists and psychologists today advocate therapy designed to make gays accept themselves and adjust to being different, not go against the grain and try to conform to a heterosexual standard. And those same mental health experts seldom if ever waste time ferreting out the "causes" of the patient's orientation, a complete waste of time.

Second, by use of the word, "gender," Lively seems to be suggesting that homosexual orientation is the result of gender-misidentification. One can only suppose he thinks all gays are "urnings" (to quote Magnus Hirschfield); that is, males who feel they're women trapped in men's bodies, and vice-versa for lesbians. This silly myth makes the Scott Livelys of this world look like the buffoons they are. I suppose all lesbians are nothing but women who are "uncomfortable" being female -- a notion that will come as a complete surprise to many I've had the pleasure to have known.

At the heart of reorientationist motivation is religious dogma and slavish devotion to the vengeful, arbitrary god of the O.T. Jesus did not condemn homosexuals, only Paul, and his condemnation was based on the last vestiges of his Jewish faith. If we followed all of the do's and don'ts of Leviticus today, we'd be committed to mental institutions and just as stigmatized as gays.

Remember, these are the same folks who actually believe that our species is only 6,000 years old and that we once walked among dinosaurs. Homosexuality isn't the problem, religion is.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Nature vs. Nurture Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Nature vs. Nurture Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Nature vs. Nurture Posted by: atheistcable
» RE: Nature vs. Nurture Posted by: jmmartin
» RE: Nature vs. Nurture Posted by: jmmartin
» RE: Nature vs. Nurture Posted by: HoboHomo
» RE: Nature vs. Nurture Posted by: HoboHomo
» RE: Nature vs. Nurture Posted by: crombie
» RE: Nature vs. Nurture Posted by: jmmartin
Oh, so sad. Here we go again with what's in the Bible.
Posted by: SayBlade on Dec 15, 2007 8:32 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The words of "Paul" do not condemn homosexuals or their behaviours. A more careful reading reveals that people should not force themselves to do what comes unnaturally, i.e. if you're hetero don't pretend you're attracted to the same sex. Romans 1:21-31. Doing what comes naturally actually supports the opposite of what proponents fixing gays want you to believe.

The "Old Testament" -- I prefer "Hebrew scriptures" -- has absolutely nothing against lesbianism and so-called prohibitions against homosexual behaviour are directed at men. This points to some other reason(s) behind the prohibitions. Leviticus 18:22 is one such verse that is interpreted as a prohibition against homosexuality. It could be saying don't displace women from their proper place or some such thing.

For comprehensive lists of these passages, put "clobber verses" into your search engine.

You can also check out The Jerusalem Protocol authored by Ken Sehested of the Baptist Peace Fellowship of North America in 1995.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Knew something like this would happen,
Posted by: donl51 on Dec 15, 2007 9:00 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I unlike a lot of you folks out there have little or no faith that those who follow religions and gods blindly won't lead us back in time to the dark ages ,yep just when you think there's hope, they strike! and its mostly out of sheer blind stupidity, things going wrong? gotta blame somebody! you fight amongst yourselves! now you're the new supremist movement! I'm an atheist,took me years to build up to that,and I really don't care what believers do as long as its not in my face or causing harm, you wish to beleive? thats your business! beleive in creationism? don't care! not big on religion in Gov. because that affects me ,don't like gays? thats your privilege, keep it to yourself !because otherwise you're out to harm somebody,and your gods know we've enough of that in this world, well here's one from me, I hate religions, all of 'em, you know why? they foster hate!!they're most of the root of whats evil in this world. not all of you ,but if you wish the rest of us to not look at it that way then you better keep the religion supremists in line!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

essence and behavior
Posted by: geoweber on Dec 15, 2007 9:19 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Growing up as a gay person I accepted our culture's condemnation of my 'life style.' In my early 20's a beautiful young woman my age proposed marriage to me. I knew that she knew that I was gay, but my self-rejection caused me to happily accept her proposal. I thought mrriage might change me, but even if it didn't, it would give me 'respectability.' WE were married 17 uears, and had 3 beautiful sons. But none of this really changed me. I did not become a hereosexual, but a heterosexual-acting repressed homosexual. After 7 years of therapy, and a move to a tropical island where we were among very non-judgmental people, I began to evolve, emotionally. THis was not acceptable to my sife, so we eventually divorced. I am happy as a gay person and my 7 sons - now in their 40's - accept me with love.
My point is that these programs designed to 'rescue' gay men CAN change their behavior, if the man is avid enough in his wish to do so. But it does not change his essence, his
orientation. And he will be crippled, in a sense, by this overriding of his own essense.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

We need to stop thinking in black and white
Posted by: reevolve on Dec 15, 2007 10:13 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I thought that it was a mistake some years back when homosexual activists started pushing the binary theory of sexuality – i.e. one is either born “gay” or “straight.” There is a wealth of evidence to support the Kinsey theory that sexuality is a continuum and that we all fall somewhere within the spectrum, similar to the idea of intelligence. Most people are not either “smart” or “stupid,” but we all possess some measure of intelligence.

Some of the best evidence for is this comes from studies of societies (particularly some South American aboriginal cultures) where homosexual relationships are not only tolerated, but expected, in conjunction with heterosexual relationships. What you see there is that most people engage in sexual relations with both genders, but some will continue to engage in strictly same-sex or opposite-sex relationships. This suggests that there are some people with very strong tendencies either way, while most have tendencies in both directions to varying degrees.

Getting back to the idea that people can be “cured” of homosexuality, I think that of course it can be done, for some people. I also think that if you took a bunch of straight people and subjected them to enough psychotherapy and social pressure, many of them could be “cured” of their heterosexuality. Of course, those with exceptionally strong heterosexual tendencies probably would never get there. But if you take someone with marginal homosexual tendencies that they have acted on, either by choice or because of external factors, you could certainly reorient them, similar to someone with violent tendencies that can be controlled with psychological intervention.

The problem with this type of therapy is not that it can’t be done, but that some people see a problem in need of fixing, where really we should be arguing that one’s sexual preferences and/or choices are nobody else’s business. The problem with the argument that all people who have adopted a gay lifestyle are “born gay” and can’t be changed is that it flies in the face of evidence to the contrary.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

What Jesus really hated:
Posted by: punabear on Dec 15, 2007 11:06 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There is only one reference in the bible where Jesus gets so angry that he is provoked to violence. The money changers in the temple drove him over the edge and he chased them outdoors. Today you will find ATM machines in the megachurches. How is that not money changers in the temple? He never chased any gay people out of the temple.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: What Jesus really hated: Posted by: MrAllen
» RE: What Jesus really hated: Posted by: HoboHomo
Self loathing is what probably comes from childhood!
Posted by: MindyB on Dec 15, 2007 12:48 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's interesting how the President(Chanbers) of Exodus admits to struggling with homosexual sexuality everyday of his life, and states that "Everyday, I wake up and deny what comes naturally to me".

Duh!! One cannot be "cured" of a "disease" if one still struggles with their "homosexual sexuality". The premise is that if you are cured, you no longer have the "disease"--it does not mean that you just learn to hate yourself and your "disease" to a point of enduring "daily struggles".

Also, if his homosexuality "comes naturally" , isn't that the same as being born with "it" , or more specifically this is how God created you, gay (or homosexual if you rather use that term), and therefore, you must accept yourself the way God created you--gay!

Funny how even when he is trying to preach ex-gayness, he can't get away from the truth, that it is nature (er God) who creates gayness in some people ("what comes naturally")

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

I wonder if one of these centers can cure me ...
Posted by: shanaza on Dec 15, 2007 1:49 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
of my blue eyes. If I will it, and work hard enough, maybe they will become brown.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

feel especially sorry for the young people
Posted by: zooeyhall on Dec 15, 2007 2:43 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
These people that run these types of things are sick and evil.

I used to take for granted that, despite some setbacks now and then, there is a steady march of human progress in the world. Reading this story makes me wonder if that is true.

I am a gay person, and have pretty much given up on Christianity and religion in general. Reading this story makes me glad I made the right decision.

Where are our so-called "respectable" main- stream churches? Why are they silent on the travesty that these people are doing?

I feel especially sorry for the young people forced into this abuse, this torture. The parents who put their kids into this are guilty of the worst kind of child abuse. They are unfit parents.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Why can't America....
Posted by: davidg on Dec 15, 2007 5:44 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...get past this issue? It is the hypocrisy of Haggard and Larry Craig, and the homophobia in the culture that "got" those guys. If there were no homophobia there would be no hypocrisy and no "getting" of anybody. Most countries in Europe and Canada are past it. What is wrong with the land of the free? As a gay teacher, I said to my prinicpal years ago, "If every gay man and woman came to work with an indelible pink triangle on his or her forehead Monday morning, not only would the world be aghast but the issue would be over." Come out, come out wherever you are!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: The media? Posted by: davidg
Anybody have the address for this ministry?
Posted by: lexicon on Dec 15, 2007 5:54 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I've felt for YEARS that I'm a Lesbian, trapped in a man's body.

I've struggled to come to terms with this, and perhaps these Ministry folks can help...

Even when I change the oil in my car. I find myself cursing and swearing like a longshoreman at the stupid MAN bastard that designed the frickin'frackin' thing so that you need two double-jointed elbows on the same damn arm to just REACH the damn filter.

Tell me...would a WOMAN design some half-assed crap like that? HELL NO.

See...the self-hate is CONFLICTING me. Maybe St. Paul can HELP.

lexicon

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Another Hetero Xmas
Posted by: HoboHomo on Dec 15, 2007 5:57 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Xmas is the chief holiday of Our Hetero Overlords: established to ASSERT the superiority of roughshod capitalist dogma, hand in hand with breeder supremacy. Breeders may take some time off from work, but they sure don't take a break from gay bashing! This is a "Fambly Valyooz" holiday, queers EXCLUDED doncha know. When so accused (being the smug fetus-poopers they are) they'll point to the rare exception of a family here and there (probably totalling no more than a scant dozen across the entire United States including Alaska, Hawaii, Puerto Rico, Cuba, Mexico and Canada), who INCLUDE their gay relations...under proscribed and severely restricted conditions. Such as:

Don't TALK about homosexuality especially gay marriage to ANYONE...don't hold hands except in the privacy of your bedroom (and don't be seen entering the bedroom together) and for god's sake don't DARE kiss in public...don't wear ANYthing that displays pro-gay sentiment such as buttons, stickers, key chains, or jewelry (which includes the pink triangle or rainbow in any way, shape or form)...cover up or remove ANY gay bumper stickers on your vehicle before you even DARE come within five miles of our home...and for chris-sake, don't DANCE with each other or even HUG! And NO faggoty behavior such as lisping, limp-wrist gestures, crossing your leg above the knee, sashaying like a vamp, or showing ANY interest in opera, ballet, and broadway musicals. Oh, and one more thing: BOTH ears should definitely not be pierced; ONE however, is permissable.

Lest you forget you're mingling with the enemy, albeit FAMBLY, just pretend you're an undercover communist homosexual gimped-out gypsy Jew at one of Hitler's exclusive Gestapo galas in the Bavarian Alps.

Keep your guard up at ALL times, don't wear anything PINK (or lavender), maintain a wan, obsequious grin...and don't speak unless spoken to. And study this manifesto "Seven Litmus Tests" before attending ANY fambly event. Writ by yours truly, it will help gird your psychological loins upon infiltrating enemy camp.

--
Steal This Blog
http://www.gay-bible.org/steal

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Seven Litmus Tests - part 1 of 2
Posted by: HoboHomo on Dec 15, 2007 6:03 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So, you have straight friends--even family members, perhaps--who are so very understanding and accepting of your homosexuality. Or are they, really? Take a second look and see how they stand up to the seven litmus tests I describe herein:

1) Of course, if they accept your homosexuality, they are most likely "liberals". And--being the good liberals they are--they proudly wear T-shirts and decals proclaiming their support of black people's rights, women's rights, ecological causes, anti-nuclear slogans, et cetera. But where are their T-shirts that say something like "Another hetero for gay rights"? If your straight friends do not display pro-gay icons on a regular basis--as they do for other causes--then they are not truly supportive of your sexual civil rights. Just as in the past, many white folks did not vocalize support for black people from fear of being called "nigger lovers"...many liberals are afraid of being labeled "faggot" if they display support for gay rights. (Their loss, and your holocaust.)

2) Your "progressive" hetero friends love to chew the fat over political issues (see above)...yet they never seem to come around to discussing the gay dilemma. Unless, of course, you yourself interject that topic, with resulting token responses by your "supportive" chums. But if you're silent, or not there, homosexuality is never a part of their progressive agenda. If they donate to liberal causes, have they ever included a contribution to some lesbian or gay organization?

3) If your "loving" family members say they support you...how far will they go in defending you before a bigoted relative? Or do they avoid the topic of homosexuality altogether, in order to never be in a position to defend you?

4) If you lost a lover from AIDS or other tragedy: how many family members rush to your side in loving concern, to ease you through your passage of grief...as they clearly would for their heterosexual kin? Or do they give you a cursory nod of sympathy, then go on their own selfish way? (Implying, of course, that no one can really take a homosexual relationship seriously...it is, at best, a joke; and certainly something one can get over in a few weeks or less.)

5) Has any close relative (such as a brother, sister, or parent) ever voluntarily approached you to ask your opinions of what it's like to be gay, and how you cope with an intolerant society? Does any relative take the kindness to recognize your humanity during Lesbian/ Gay Pride Week? (Or do they all pretend they don't even know of its existence, even when you remind them of the upcoming event each year?) Has any one of them actually read a book about homosexuality--just as they read about racism, Viet Nam, etc.-- that they may better understand the issue? (Are there any books in their homes about gay people...along with their books on women's rights, racism, and other progressive topics?)

6) Are your "understanding" hetero buddies often rationalizing society's homophobia with statements like: "Well, heterosexuality is so deeply ingrained in our culture...it will take some time yet for society to come around." Though they would never dream of saying the same thing for other issues of oppression; such as black people's rights, child abuse, job discrimination towards females, etc. (Yet those negative aspects are just as ingrained in our society, as is hatred towards homosexuals.)

continued...

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Seven Litmus Tests - part 2 of 2
Posted by: HoboHomo on Dec 15, 2007 6:05 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
7) Do your relatives go all ga-ga over conventional "het" weddings within the family...and pretend to never comprehend why you might feel a little less eager to celebrate these breeder unions, than they are? ("Oh, cousin Peggy, I'm so happy you're getting married to the man of your dreams! I'll dance with all the bridesmaid's and sing, and play piano, and in general, be the life of the party. Then when it's all over, I'll go back to my little queer closet, where I can brood to my heart's content over never being able to celebrate a marriage with the partner of my dreams, as you, privileged hetero, can so freely do.")

Note: Would you consider refusing to attend hetero weddings until the time when gays can also marry...and mail a written declaration to this effect to your closer relatives? Or are you a slave to your family's every demand...and/or afraid of losing certain fringe benefits, such as paid college tuition, generous birthday and graduation gifts, family business loans and donations, and a sumptuous inheritance or two? If so, then you must also bear some guilt for perpetuating homophobia. Mama's boys just don't cut the mustard when it comes to defending homosexual civil rights at the cost of making their mothers happy.

Many of us live in delusion as to the assumed "stalwart support" from our heterosexual kith and kin. So I hope the examples above will wake up some of our sisters and brothers. I must also point out that if you do have family members and straight friends who pass these litmus tests, then you are a lucky soul, indeed.

I am a Christian who believes that Jesus is homosexual, and whose lover is of course, God. And it is also my belief that Jesus had the homosexuality/family issue in mind, when He said (Matthew 10:35-36):

"For I have come to set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. And a man's foes will be those of his own household."

President Clinton's signing of the so-called "Defense Of Marriage Act" is clearly this prophecy on the way to fulfilling itself. Best prepare for the revolution about to come, and beware of family and most of your hetero buddies--for they may kill you with "friendly fire."

--
Steal This Blog!
http://www.gay-bible.org/steal

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

The post to trump all posts
Posted by: PhantomOfLiberty on Dec 15, 2007 6:11 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
First of all a big THANK YOU to Casey Sanchez for writing such a detailed and balanced article about this insane phenomenon.

Ok. Let's get a few things out of the way.

Anyone who follows a religious dogma and full-heartedly believes in an anthropomorphic higher being that actually gives a fart about our species is ignorant to many aspects of science and other cultures. They also may be clinging to doctrines they were fed as children and may not have the willpower to overcome the fear of the possibility of spending half (or more) of their life in logical darkness.

That being said not all "christians" are bad people.

However, this article and other writings that expose the ignorance and hate promoted by some of the worse people who belong to this religion or the social damage they cause (Don't EVEN tell me there was no damage caused. Let's see: Crusades, "witch" burning, inquisition, child molester protecting, abortion clinic bombing, assassinations, lynching, racisim, misogyny...I could go on) are simply talking about the "bad" ones.

Get over it. If you are so confident that you are not one of the bad ones and that "not all christians are like that" then why are you all putting up such a fuss when stories like this come out. You should be more like "Yeah! F*** those jerks! I'm glad I'm a real Christian."

On a more personal note:

When I was 16 my parents found some ::cough:: reading material and after a few hours of hiding in a corner of my room gripping a baseball bat, gallons of tears and millions of threats and verbal abuse (could have been physical if it weren't for the bat) my mother recommended an ex-gay ministry called Exodus.

Later, I was handed a pamphlet and since I had nothing else better to do (I shipped all my important personal property to my friends houses in the middle of the night to avoid their destruction my father promised) I read it.

At this point I was willing to do anything to avoid living life as a homosexual. However I just couldn't swallow that bologna. The pamphlet spoke of self-abuse, self-hatred (I had plenty of that already, thank you very much.) and self denial. Most importantly and most frustrating was the major role god played in the program. Since I had lost my faith way before I realized I was gay, I had no interest at all in the Exodus crap.

If I had attended I would be one mess of a person. It might have worked for a little bit but eventually I would have realized that I was gay and I would be devastated. I would have had to turn back down the distorted path I came and start all over again.

It's ok to have crazy sex drug filled experiences when you're younger. But when you're in your 30's and 40's??? That's kind of sad. Unfortunately that's why it seems that a lot of the gay population, no matter how old they are, have a disposition and social manners of a 17 year old. I'm not being a jerk here I'm just speaking from experience of the gay population in a large city (Chicago).

I'm not sure where I'm going with all this and I apologize to anyone who is still reading this. Basically: Religion=bad, Ex-Gay ministries=bad, Internet forums=good, Gay people=people.

Peace.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

The Story of Matthew Murray
Posted by: sofla100 on Dec 15, 2007 7:04 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The story of Matthew Murray:

The more I read of Matthew Murray's home life and his dealings with his mega-church the more I understand why he decided he needed to blew the church away.

Matthew Murray was the "deranged gunman" who killed four and wounded others at young Evangelical Christian missionary locations connected to a Denver suburb mega-church. New Life Church is one of the largest and most influential in the country. It was also home to Rev. Ted Haggard until he was removed for drugs and homosexuality with a gay prostitute. It has been the leader in the largely sucessful effort to Christian radicalize the Air Force. It leads in promoting deprogramming gayness.

Matt became mentally ill but his whole life revolved around the church and being home-schooled. The church and his parents decided he had become possessed by evil demons and made his life even more of a living Hell and kept destroying his video games and music. How much of that is due to his coming out as bi-sexual is unclear.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Christians are not afraid
Posted by: taki on Dec 15, 2007 7:42 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In Jesus's time, if you were gay and people knew it, you would be stoned. It was against the law. Why would he talk about a "done" issue. So why would he waste time talking about something everyone already knew.

Furthermore, homosexuality according to the bible, just like fornication and adultery or whatever you choose to sleep with outside the confines of a heteroxual marriage is a sin. If you don't like it...fine, it still doesn't change it.

There are many religions out there that will let you do and sleep with whatever you want, but Christianity just doesn't happen to be one of them. So sorry.

No one hates gays, you just can't have both. You can't make God do what you want him to do. Wouldn't that defeat the purpose of him being God and you being a human? He doesn't do what you say, you choose to do what he says or you don't choose Him at all. That has nothing to do with Him not being a God of love, He loves you enough to tell you that you can't stay that way and still expect to go to heaven. He doesn't want you to waste your time, just to find out ooops you didn' make it cause some preacher lied to you and told you that you can live however you want and God will still accept you. Now that is true love. He doesn't want you to miss out.

But all those Christians out there bashing gays, and you are living screwed up lives too, don't be mistaken you are going to be held accountable too. God hates hypocrites. Where is the love of God in your lives? In God's eyes, sin is sin, and it is all evil in his eyes.

But if these people are saying that they were once homosexuals and they asked God to deliver them from it because they did not want to be that way any more...leave them alone. We hear gay rights activists talk all the time, let someone else speak without you throwing around labels of homophobia and so forth. The problem is many gay rights organizations want us to be homophobic (afraid of homosexuals) but we are not afraid of you. That is why we keep talking. We are not afraid of you like the rest of America, and we never will be.

This has nothing to do with love, because Christians are some of the biggest givers to Charities than any group in this country and will continue to. But the life of Jesus has always been controversial, and I suppose the life a Christian (follower of Chrsit) will be as well.

So it does not matter what you say about Christianity, it is still One of the fastest growing religions in the World. The Bible is still the fastest selling Book in the world, and Gay rights tactics will never quiet us, or stop the inevitable...and that is gays are coming to Christ and giving up their lifestyle in record numbers.

So all you true hatemongers...that hate that I just said. I am praying for you too. but you words will never hurt us, no matter how mean they are...you just help further the cause of Christ.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Christians are not afraid Posted by: radagast_23
» You are wrong. Posted by: Tommy Marx
» RE: Christians are not afraid Posted by: jvaljon1
» Love In Action through hatred of self Posted by: magiquarian1969
The Bible is word of God? Don't think so
Posted by: johnofphilly on Dec 15, 2007 9:50 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We're talking about a cumulative piece of literature misinterpreted many times through translation.

The sermon on the mount is probably accurate. Jesus never said a word about homosexuality.

It is truly sad that, while the charitable institution of the church must accomodate those of moronic mentality, a few of them get elevated to power with their two dimensional literal concept of absolutes. My fat cow cousin plays the church organ, but reads National Enquirer more than the Bible. Also with absolute belief.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

All You Need to Know
Posted by: LeaderofMen on Dec 16, 2007 6:36 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"it would be better if I were to commit suicide than go back into the world and become a homosexual again."

That would be the operative statement with respect to this issue.

Religions are mythology. All of them. They have no place in the 21st century. The Age of Enlightenment was several hundred years ago. The Renaissance was hundreds of years ago. The Age of Science started hundreds of years ago.

There was a single generation of Pilgrims that came to this country. They were a FAILED experiment in wacky religious fanaticism.

Does anyone get where I'm going with this? If not, here's the point: it's false. It's fake. Religion is designed to control people's minds. Attempting to tell someone that their most core identification, their sexuality, is bad or wrong or shouldn't 'be' is ignorant and dangerous - just like the rest of a religion's tenants.

Literally EVERYTHING that religion tells us has no basis in reality. Think not? Is the Earth flat? Is the Earth 6000 years old? You think you have a soul? You think Shiva is a destroyer? Is Nirvana a real place? Or Heaven? Does Jehovah walk and talk and breath like a human? Do angels watch over people? Did Mohammed go up to heaven on a winged horse?

Really? Is ALL of that true? Can you prove any of that? NO YOU CAN'T. None of it is true. If you believe it you are part of the problem.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: All You Need to Know Posted by: crombie
In the long run we will all be dead.
Posted by: scottyrocks on Dec 16, 2007 1:01 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Who cares if men are gay? More pussy for me.

How cares if Christians believe in afterlife.

More actual life lived for me.

Scott

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» please get a vasectomy... Posted by: Moira61
» RE: please get a vasectomy... Posted by: YogiBear
Ex-straights
Posted by: renelucy on Dec 16, 2007 2:08 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The same techniques used to produce "ex-gays" can be used to create ex-straights.
In an over-populated world facing extinction, a more reasonable person would logically demonize heterosexuality.
Of course this is just as ridiculous as demonizing homosexuality.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

all these people babbling....
Posted by: davidg on Dec 16, 2007 3:14 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
as if they know what the bible means and what god thinks. Such organized collective psychosis...why don't you all take a history course, start in the middle ages, work up through the enlightenment and understand the confusion of this modern period. Karen Armstrong's writings might help.....and many, many others. For the planet's sake! A little rational inquiry. With all due respect to the depth and profundity of some ideas and sentiments found in religions, put it in perspective. And you literalists! A mental douche!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Sounds Like Denial To Me...
Posted by: kanekoa64 on Dec 16, 2007 4:57 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
To be flippant,
(because I can't think too hard about this, or I will SCREAM...)
I think that most of these miscreants posing as religious, pious people trying to reeducate Gays, live in large, steel reinforced closets, with no doors or windows, themselves. Come out, boys and girls. It's alright! The saddest thing about all this is the brainwashed gay folks who get convinced this will solve their problems. Problems mostly caused by people like the ones who claim to be able to "cure" homosexuality.
Make no mistake, the Christians are doing this for themselves, not for the poor, Gay folks who are tricked into this crap. The Christians will always view them as damaged, even after "curing"/"saving" them and laud themselves for bringing them into "Gods" light and saving the world from the evils of freedom, thus buying their ticket into the non existent, gated community called "Afterlife Acres".

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Some words from Downunder
Posted by: crombie on Dec 16, 2007 5:35 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why America?...ever considered it's maybe not just America or that Land of the Free is maybe just a hollow epithet? What's being discussed here is the power of religious groups to influence policy:

"Policy is deliberate coercion - statements attempting to set forth the purpose, the means, the subjects, and the objects of coercion ... [I]nevitably there is an element of coercion in collective life ... Administration is a means of routinizing coercion. Government is a means of legitimizing it. Power is simply the relative share...a group appears to have in shaping and directing the instruments of coercion". Lowi, 1970)

Freedom is neither the unconditional project nor the outcome of policy - even your apologist Milton Friedman agrees!! And this holds true for most countries and their laws/policies - though the West and Political Christianity hold a dominant position for case study.

The arguments about religion and its influence are not going to depart anytime soon, despite the best efforts of many enlightened thinkers. They seem so easy to dismiss on rational grounds but they persist in spite of such dismissals (that's politics for you) - it is difficult ground on which to mount the kind of attack that would see them off because they defy reasoned argument. How does one argue against blind faith in the supernatural? I think that a more successful approach is to be gleaned from the pages of the original texts. After all, the original authors had to be attempting to explain something they perceived as real and problematic - what was it?

The dominant cultures of the flat earth that existed when the books of the OT were written, saw women in a very subjective position, and homosexuality (eg among the Greeks) was widely practised - before the later advent of 'moral law', it simply felt good and didn't result in unwanted children - makes good sense when viewed thus, does it not? And in this cultural context, the early philosophers were looking to explain the nature of human - why not? We've been doing it ever since; why would we assume that they were doing anything different? Genesis explains that human is born unfree, chained to his own thinking and its resultant doubts, and Exodus explains how to move beyond doubts to achieve pragmatic ends - by the use of the same thinking that chains human in the first place (the advice about not retaining fixed or rigid ideas[images] and idolizing them is particularly useful).

In simple terms, human is born unfree, chained by the gift of reflective thought (the Biblical "Word", no less) to a life of constantly reflecting on the difference between the right way and the wrong way to achieve pragmatic ends.

The rewrite affected by Jesus and his (Gospel) Apostles is an attempt to reset the simple message - John, however, is the only one to rewrite Genesis in the first half-dozen lines (a much-needed simplification) in which he names God as the Word ("Where two meet in my name, there will I be"). Scientists agree that human thinking and language had to emerge simultaneously so it is no great challenge to see the pair as "Word". As humans, we are all caught in this prison of Word, and science has no answer for this original cause in the pragmatic chain.

My point here is that these philosophers of an ancient past were not talking of mysteries or magic but of the pragmatic use of the human mind to overcome a perceived a priori disadvantage. Scratch Kant or any of the Enlightenment thinkers and you'll get no great advance on these guys. It was never about the content of belief but rather about the container - "It's not what goes in but rather what comes out..." is the quote attributed to Jesus.
Thanks everyone for the education - in the land of Oz, we have the same problems, but the churches are smaller - thank God.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

The Mega-Church Business in America
Posted by: sofla100 on Dec 16, 2007 6:04 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What needs to be examined is the primary role money, and its acquisition, has taken in the American Church. In particular, the so-called "mega-churches" and Evangelical churches. When we see a Pastor with wealthy parishioners telling them to "tithe 10% to the Church, etc." we have to wonder. When we see a Pastor driving expensive cars and taking lengthy trips, we have to wonder. When we see these guys on TV, making a pitch and claiming Jesus will intervene for them (especially after you provide your Debit card number) we have to wonder. Bottom line, much of the American Church is nothing but a business. The ridiculous and un-scientific attempt to "convert" gays no doubt comes with a nice price tag collected by the so-called "converters," after they "throw out" the "devil of homosexuality." These "Pastors" have hooked into the perfect racket. By using guilt and fear on the gullible, along with the privilege of paying no property taxes, they can lead comfortable lives. All it takes is delivering the promise of Jesus and Redemption, at a price!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

God is a lie
Posted by: MR Id on Dec 16, 2007 10:19 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Sleep with who ever you are attracted to (assuming of course they are legal).

Kill the Bronze Age Sky God. He is the father of all oppressors.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

If you are gay, enjoy yourself
Posted by: MR Id on Dec 16, 2007 10:21 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The mega pastors do.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Plenty of hurt to go around
Posted by: YogiBear on Dec 16, 2007 11:39 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
These groups increasingly are hiring ex-gay activists as spokesmen

For short term gain, only. How many "ex-gays" will remain "ex"? Not many, if genetics plays a part. As those bonds collapse, so will their movements be damaged.

I do feel pity for those men and women who go through the indoctrination. On one hand they face being shamed by an uncompromising public; on the other they face denying their true selves, or worse, never exploring their feelings to the full extent.

My guess is the Christians who think they're helping are the type who believe in demonic possession. When an ex-gay convert loses control and then takes his own life, they'll be able to blame it all on the evil spirits that took him over, washing away their own complicity in his death.Anytime a convert falls back into old ways, they'll be able to blame these evil forces rather than look inward. I wonder how much damage they're doing to themselves in the process?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Amen!
Posted by: theodyke on Dec 17, 2007 3:53 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The ones who are in need of change and reconciliation with God are those who would exclude or abuse anyone with their archaic biblical beliefs and misinterpretations.

I believe a relationship with God CAN change people. The bigots are the ones in most need of God's healing.

There is hope for those who are prejudiced against gays and lesbians.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

strange
Posted by: Talleyrand on Dec 17, 2007 2:09 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The whole gay thing with these religious fundamentalists is really weird, almost funny, and very contradictory. Here they are looking for some scientific support for people becoming gay, and then they turn around and say that man and dinosaurs walked the planet about 4000 years ago. Incredible nonsense. And somewhere I get this niggling thought that a lot of these anti-gay people are simply poor guys and gals who don't dare step out of the closet.

But there is also a more sinister side and it is very old. Sexuality is a fundamental life force, hence it is to be attacked from all sides. The gays have to become heteros, the heteros, however, are not allowed to engage in the pleasure of a lively -- and safe -- sexual relationship. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. At every street corner stands some gatekeeper and says though shallt wind up burning in hell for having enjoying some whoopee, either with yourself, or with someone else. What a god that must be, spending days, weeks, months, millennia with a bullhorn and an excel sheet noting all the times individuals have engaged in sex for fun and writing it down in a big book. Wow! Speak of OCD!! And what about the likes of Mr. Bush, the W -- won't say what that stands for -- who kills thousands, who lies, who talks with JC himself?
The sex business has become a conditioned response that is hard to fight. It's "bad."... that is not our voice, that is the voice of centuries of brainwash. I read about those poor exgays denying what they feel, and I realize, they are neat little time bombs. I can only hope that they politely decline any invitation to be "straightened out." If you want to change, then change. But don't have some sweaty prosyletizer backed by a church-full of dollars try to convince you that you are a bad person because you feel attracted to the same sex.

Cheers

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Homosexuality is the result of the FAILURE OF WOMEN TO OBEY !
Posted by: pwhite97624 on Dec 22, 2007 5:40 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A woman's "job", instead of being MZ. CAREER BALL-BUSTING CAREER WOMAN, IS TO KEEP HER MAN SATISFIED IN THE BEDROOM AND IN THE LIVING ROOM - KITCHEN- AND AT SOCIAL FUNCTIONS ! God created "wo-man" as a "help-mate and companion" for MAN ! How many "modern" women are truly like this ? Not enough, apparently ! A woman's job is to "satisfy" her husband in bed, no matter what ! Stop whining and complaining and put on that Teddy, girl ! And stop place "your feminist demands" before your man's ! That's why there's so much divorce nowadays. Wo-men are here to serve men......go read the Bible, people. The Divorce rate is currently at 60% - WHY ? Because of the failure of women to "fulfilled" their predestined roles as WIFE, MOTHER, COMPANION. Period. Satisfy your man at all times, women, and the words "bitch" and "ho" will magically begin to disappear from the vocabulary in popular culture. Try it !

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Forgotten victims
Posted by: Staggo on Dec 22, 2007 6:36 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Reparative therapy doesn't work, thankfully. While the unfortunate men who seek unnecessary aid suffer tremendously--from internalized homophobia and from crass manipulation of their souls--the unacknowledged victims are the women who marry the allegedly ex-gays. They are pawns in a pathetic game. Invariably, their lives turn into hell. And there are the children. A gay man can father children, but if these kids live in a home of deep hypocrisy, no matter how subtle it may be, they suffer. Lies, cruelty, bigotry, and unhappiness ruin lives in a ripple effect. And this is godly---how?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

What in Hell Has God...
Posted by: Astroboy on Dec 23, 2007 10:47 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...got to do with homosexuality - or human sexuality, for that matter?

Being gay is NOT a religious issue anymore than being black or white is a religious issue.

All this nonsense about what the bible has to say about it is completely irrelevant, and by constantly dragging into the conversation this old cannard, we completely disregard the complexity of our own humanity.

For anyone to argue that homosexuality is unnatural is arguing against his own right to existance - regardless of his sexual identity- for he's putting limitations upon it which do not exist in nature.

How thick and slow we've become.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

  • AlterNetYour turn

Support AlterNet
Do you value the information you're getting from AlterNet? Please show your support with a tax-deductible donation.


Feedback
Tell us how we're doing.

Advertisement
Advertisement