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Where Anti-Immigrant Zealots Like Lou Dobbs Get Their 'Facts'

By Heidi Beirich, Intelligence Report. Posted December 17, 2007.


The media keeps turning to racist group FAIR for its "expertise."
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The forces seeking to sharply reduce the number of immigrants coming to America won a stunning victory last June, when nativist anger at an "amnesty" for the undocumented scuttled a major bipartisan immigration reform package backed by President Bush. Many members of Congress were completely unprepared for the flood of angry E-mails, phone calls and faxes they received -- an inundation so massive that the phone system collapsed under the weight of more than 400,000 faxes.

They should not have been surprised. The furious nativist tide was largely driven by an array of immigration restriction organizations that has been built up over the course of more than 20 years into fixtures in the nation's capital.

The vast majority of these groups were founded or funded by John Tanton, a major architect of the contemporary nativist movement who, 20 years ago, was already warning of a destructive "Latin onslaught" heading to the United States. Most of these organizations used their vast resources in the days leading up to a vote on the bill to stir up a nativist backlash that ultimately resulted in its death.

At the center of the Tanton web is the nonprofit Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR), the most important organization fueling the backlash against immigration. Founded by Tanton in 1979, FAIR has long been marked by anti-Latino and anti-Catholic attitudes. It has mixed this bigotry with a fondness for eugenics, the idea of breeding better humans discredited by its Nazi associations. It has accepted $1.2 million from an infamous, racist eugenics foundation. It has employed officials in key positions who are also members of white supremacist groups. Recently, it has promoted racist conspiracy theories about Mexico's secret designs on the American Southwest and an alternative theory alleging secret plans to merge the United States, Mexico and Canada. Just last February, FAIR President Dan Stein sought "advice" from the leaders of a racist Belgian political party.

FAIR officials declined repeated requests for comment.

None of this -- or any other material evidencing the bigotry and racism that courses through the group -- seems to have affected FAIR's media standing. In just the first 10 months of 2007, the group was quoted in mainstream media outlets nearly 500 times with virtually no mention of its more unsavory aspects. Stein was featured on CNN's "Lou Dobbs Tonight" at least 12 times in the same period, along with countless appearances on other television news shows. And, perhaps most remarkably of all, FAIR has been taken seriously by Congress, which has called upon its officials to testify on immigration more than 30 times since 2000.

"The sad fact is that attempts to reform our immigration system are being sabotaged by organizations fueled by hate," said Henry Fernandez, a senior fellow and expert on immigration at the Center for American Progress, a "progressive" think tank. "Many anti-immigrant leaders have backgrounds that should disqualify them from even participating in mainstream debate, yet the American press quotes them without ever noting their bizarre and often racist beliefs."

The Founder: Early Hints

For decades, John Tanton has operated a nativist empire out of his U.S. Inc. foundation's headquarters in Petoskey, Mich. Even as he simultaneously runs his own hate group -- The Social Contract Press, listed for many years by the Southern Poverty Law Center because of its anti-Latino and white supremacist writings -- Tanton has remained the house intellectual for FAIR. In fact, U.S. Inc. bankrolls much of FAIR's lobbying activity and, at least until 2005, Tanton ran its Research and Publications Committee, the group that fashions and then disseminates FAIR's position papers. In its 2004 annual report, FAIR highlighted its own main ideologue, singing Tanton's praises for "visionary qualities that have not waned one bit."

But what, exactly, is Tanton's vision?

As long ago as 1988, when a series of internal 1986 documents known as the WITAN memos were leaked to the press, Tanton's bigoted attitudes have been known. In the memos, written to colleagues on the staff of FAIR, Tanton warned of a coming "Latin onslaught" and worried that high Latino birth rates would lead "the present majority to hand over its political power to a group that is simply more fertile." Tanton repeatedly demeaned Latinos in the memos, asking whether they would "bring with them the tradition of the mordida [bribe], the lack of involvement in public affairs" and also questioning Latinos' "educability."


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Awareness
Posted by: talkville on Dec 17, 2007 1:38 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
NAFTA-type of 'agreements', part of the un-bridled neo-liberal program of corporate and financial capital, have given the the latter free-rein and mobility within and between borders. Labor, on the other hand is contained, at all costs, within the strictest limits.

Immigration is a practical issue to be solved; the worrisome thing about Dobbs and others is that, let's face it square-on, there's a subtle and worrisome thread of racism, chauvinism and nationalism barely beneath the surface of their "analyses" of the situation. They are appealing to emotive scripts.

USA control of the IMF, the WTO and in this country of Economic neo-liberal projects means that these issues spring mainly but not exclusively (viz. European actors) from these quarters. How better to correct the un-desirable consequences? Lou Dobbs and Fox News for instance: blame the victims and the dis-located by the very policies unleashed upon them. And very regressive feelings and emotions are being targeted to accomplish this.

Dobbs and Co will always clip, cut and paste 'facts' to suit their story; it's an ugly one.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Awareness Not Posted by: LeftCoastProgressive
» RE: Awareness Not Posted by: crombie
» RE: Awareness Not Posted by: TagsNOLA
» RE: Awareness Not Posted by: talkville
» Democrat Hypocracy Posted by: Julia1977
» RE: Democrat Hypocracy Posted by: Cybershaman
» RE: Democrat Hypocracy Posted by: TheLimit
» RE: Democrat Hypocracy Posted by: talkville
You can't ban these people
Posted by: cordas on Dec 17, 2007 2:48 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am sorry but calls to have these people banned from the debate are just wrong, what needs to happen is they need to be dragged from their caves and exposed as exactly what they are. Any atttempts to ban them will just make them more secrative and harder to get rid off.

Get them on TV and in the media and continue to push the buttons that allow them to spill thier racist rubbish, let them dig their own grave and bury themselves.... if they really hate as much as it appears they do they will do this happily thinking that "everyone" thinks and feels the same as them....

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Agreed Posted by: Sparks56
» RE: You can't ban these people Posted by: LeftCoastProgressive
» RE: Need to be faced head on. Posted by: nightgaunt
USA: Exploitation, Contradiction and Lies
Posted by: sofla100 on Dec 17, 2007 3:32 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The problem with Dobbs and his cohorts is not that he does not have some good points. He is against the monstrosity of "free trade" and the massive tax burden on the middle class. But, his analysis is simply not in-depth enough. USA policies have transferred thousands of low wage jobs to the sweat shops of Mexico and South America. Yet, these people still want to come to America. The sweat shop jobs just are not good enough and are just more exploitation. Also, you have the exploitation carried out by the IMF and World Bank, as they fed rich elites at the expense of the people. It's only when a Chavez comes to power that Washington takes notice. But, then, they still don't want to help the people, just send in thugs to get rid of who they (USA) don't want in power.

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IDOECON
Posted by: ehensley on Dec 17, 2007 3:51 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I wish we could separate the emotional issue of race from the factual issue of stagnant wages in the US. While the causes of the loss of living standards among American workers are many and complex, illegal immigrant workers are undoubetdly one of the causes. I believe this is a significant factor in the interest of the average American in stemming illegal immigration. Lou Dobbs may have capitalized on this in a hateful, fear-mongering way, but the underlying problem, I believe, is standard of living erosion.

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A sad rant
Posted by: magus65 on Dec 17, 2007 3:56 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
First of all, notice how the title says anti-immigrant rather than anti-illegal immigrant. The open borders supporters do this consistantly - lumping all immigrants together whether legal or not. It is a classical example of misdirection used to supposedly link those who oppose open borders with racists.

According to the author FAIR and racist groups like FAIR are the only thing driving the backlash against the Amnesty bill.

Racists will, of course, be anti-immigration but their is a huge number of Americans who simply believe we have a right and a responsibility to CONTROL our borders so that.

Despite the radical center left's vain attempt to claim that Americans won't do certain jobs (at a crappy wage approved by their corporate masters perhaps) and that illegal immigrants give back soooo much too our country, some of us can still see that outsourcing and uncontrolled immigration isn't going to do our already sub-standard slave wages any good.

Immigrants are trying to escape lousy situations that we cause - I get that and I do sympathise. On the other hand depressing wages so that BOTH mom and dad have to have two jobs does not promote an informed and active citizenry which might actually be able to do something to stop the corporatist crap that makes them flee their own countries. Do you really think the bought and paid for center dem leaders are going to do help the situation? Maybe they'll get around to it now that they've stopped the war.

Do your research. The plans to merge the US, Canada, and Mexico are quite real and ongoing. It is not a conspiracy but the result of the same globalist neo-lib/neo-con ideology that brought us the EU which is being ram-rodded down the throats of europeans despite it's low and rapidly decreasing popularity. Like the EU it will start as a series of trade pacts and a realignment homogenization of some law but eventually the globalists will be pushing for more.

The author indicates that we "deserve" uncontrolled immigration because we cause the conditions that makes their own countries so miserable. But those who pay for uncontrolled immigration through lower wages and less job opportunities are not likely to be of the psychotic McMansion crowed that drive and implement such horrid policies.


Yes - FAIR is a racist organization. I believe Lou Dobbs quoted them once or twice until he found out more about them. He made a mistake on the credibility of a source - big deal - as if the MSM in general doesn't trip over itself and report blatant lies and government propaganda every ten seconds.

This has to be the most disingenuous fact free straw man attack I have ever seen - what garbage.

The author is either highly misguided or a corporate shill since corporations and their lap dogs are the ones with the most to gain from an uncontrolled flow of cheap labor.

Cheap labor democrats and cheap labor republicans marching as one, my isn't that cozy. Yet another example of the false left/right paradigm.

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» Agreed Posted by: Sparks56
» RE: A sad rant Posted by: newburcj
» No proper channels? Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: A sad rant Posted by: dezertlady71 dezertlady71
» Agreed, also! Posted by: zooeyhall
» RE: Agreed, also! Posted by: Cybershaman
» RE: Agreed, also! Posted by: Joe
» RE: A sad rant Posted by: Old Skeptic
» Guilt by association Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: A sad rant Posted by: Rod in 83706
» RE: A sad rant Posted by: DAP
» RE: A sad rant Posted by: jrmart
» RE: A sad rant Posted by: talkville
competing for the crumbs
Posted by: chrysalis124812 on Dec 17, 2007 4:55 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's very convenient for the denizens of corporate boardrooms when citizens of neighboring nations have to compete for jobs(survival) It helps keeps the focus off of the fact that they are benefitting to a ridiculous degree at everyone elses expense. The planet is being used up at an alarming rate to secure their profits, and you (the employee) are just the cheapest help they can get at the moment. I wish we could just start caring for each other, and let them eat money.

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» RE: competing for the crumbs Posted by: Jim Shaw
Lou Dobbs for President!
Posted by: Abe on Dec 17, 2007 5:06 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Enough said!

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Lou Dobbs.. hate groups????
Posted by: patfr on Dec 17, 2007 5:14 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Its amusing the way you label Lou, and his supporters. All of the posts have some valid points, especially if you disreguard the main point they are making, we have laws in this country, do it legally, that seems pretty simple
for americans to understand. As for some of the intelligent, complex, double-talking post above,
SOUNDS GOOD, to bad you overlook the real problem.
kind of reminds me of some crap i heard a few years ago....THE WAR ON TERROR

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» RE: Lou Dobbs.. hate groups???? Posted by: talkville
On C-SPAN, at a forum, a former Mexican leader question Dobbs on trade and here's the SHOCKER.
Posted by: maxpayne on Dec 17, 2007 5:46 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Lou Dobbs not only went around the question but when the Mexican asked him where his clothes that he was wearing were made in, Lou Dobbs had this to say,

"You better not try to look at my inside covers or I'll kick your ASS !"

and there was laughter in the audience.

Virtually any guest who comes on his program making a valid point on "free" trade as the culprit for this immigration mess gets "Bill O'reilly-ed". He also goes overboard bashing the Chinese and Indians with no regards to the fact that it's the American and even some European business leaders who are using them for "cheap", or shall I say near-slave labor, in the first place. That alone turned my wife off especially since she's from an Asian descent despite being born here. Nowdays I don't feel like I've missed anything by turning off his TV show and I think most others would benefit as well.

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The South's Gonna Rise A'gin
Posted by: jim_altman on Dec 17, 2007 5:54 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The US South has aleady risen. How many of the last thirty years have we been governed by former Southern governors? Even racism and Anglo-Saxon Protestantism are mainstream again. Try as it might through occupation and Reconstruction, the Northeast was unable to keep control of the South. How history repeats itself. It's the Southern Hemisphere that's doing the rising now. The historically exploited peoples of this deep South are rising up for their share of the global pie and the global Yankees are afraid. The previous 200 years saw the struggles of various Northern Hemispheric powers for global dominion, but now the South is rising. The immigration wave is just a foretaste. OPEC nations of the Near East and South America are beginning to flex their economic muscles. Wealth is slowing shifting southward. The 10% of the North can no longer expect to hold on to 70% of the goodies indefinitely. Whether this shift is peaceful or violent depends greatly on the enlightenment or stupidity of the Northern nations. Lou Dobbs, FAIR, and a good many Republicans and Democrats, conservatives and liberals alike sound pretty stupid on this.

Globalization and open borders are inevitable, but war is not. There is enough on this planet to go around. Kindergarten 101: Sharing!

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sailor50
Posted by: sailor50 on Dec 17, 2007 6:21 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What a load of crap this story is! The issue is about MONEY, not race. And those of you who buy into the racism expressed here should be ashamed of your own stupidity and gulibility. I live but 50 miles from the border and am sick of these invaders taking our American jobs, trashing our landscape, committing all sorts of crimes, and driving like they never had a driver training class.

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» RE: sailor50 Posted by: Jbuuty
» RE: sailor50 Posted by: mr.E
» RE: sailor50 Posted by: Jbuuty
» RE: sailor50 Posted by: mr.E
» RE: sailor50 Posted by: YogiBear
I Love Lou Dobbs!
Posted by: thinkverybig on Dec 17, 2007 6:26 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I agree with Lou Dobbs.... 100% I love him, Jack Cafferty of the Cafferty file and I like Keith Olbermann.

All are wonderful individuals who are standing up for something right and just. '

I wish Lou Dobbs would run for President... He's surely have my vote!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: I Love Lou Dobbs! Posted by: donl51
» RE: I Love Lou Dobbs! Posted by: makeadifference
FAIR is NOT FAIR
Posted by: ProgressiveManiac on Dec 17, 2007 6:35 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I just wanted to warn people not to confuse FAIR (Federation for American Immigration Reform) with the very different organization called FAIR (Fairness and Accuracy In Reporting). The latter organization serves as a watchdog on the press and attempts to keep them honest. They publish a newsletter and offer a podcast, both of which I can recommend highly. I should add that I am not associated with either group.

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» RE: FAIR is NOT FAIR Posted by: magus65
The language of disturbed cult members
Posted by: JillHenry on Dec 17, 2007 6:40 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Supemacist, racist, nazis, etc., etc., are propganda terms used by the politically correct against white Gentiles who don't accept their cult beliefs.

Ever see these terms used seriously against Jews and nonwhites?

How many Jews are called supremacist or nazi for supporting the APARTHEID state of Israel?

How many Chicanos are called racist for promoting La Raza (The Race) groups?

How many blacks are called racist for attending events sponsored by the Nation of Islam, a black separatist group with many promenent members who promote the extermination of whites?

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His wife is a Mexican
Posted by: defrag on Dec 17, 2007 6:46 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Lou Dobbs is a populist critic of capitalist excess who otherwise would fit right into AlterNet. Also, he's married to a Mexican!

AlterNet has simply gone stark raving mad on this one issue, for reasons that are not obvious.

Is somebody at AlterNet too lazy to mow their own lawn or something?

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» RE: His wife is a Mexican Posted by: DigitalAztec
» You sound insane Posted by: defrag
» RE: His wife is a Mexican Posted by: mountainmama
» RE: His wife is a Mexican Posted by: sailor50
» RE: His wife is a Mexican Posted by: YogiBear
» And Bush's wife is a librarian. Posted by: Mr. Heathen
The Mellon Banking Dynasty
Posted by: DigitalAztec on Dec 17, 2007 6:47 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Is also funding Tanton

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» RE: The Mellon Banking Dynasty Posted by: Basenjis
Anti Immigrant or anti ILLEGAL immigrant?
Posted by: liviaturner on Dec 17, 2007 7:06 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Lou Dobbs is NOT anti Immigrant, he is ANTI ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT.

As am I.....

And most would be if you live in TX...or Arizona or CA.

Get your facts right, please...

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» RE: If the US has no system Posted by: MeridaLady
» RE: If the US has no system Posted by: donl51
I did a double-take...
Posted by: Chickensh*tEagle on Dec 17, 2007 7:07 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...at the subhead "The media keeps turning to racist group FAIR for its 'expertise.'"

Many progressives, including me, think of Fairness & Accuracy in Reporting when they see the acronym FAIR. That FAIR is hardly a racist group, and the thought of the media turning to it for "expertise" to support anti-immigrant rants is a ludicrous one.

The article doesn't spell out Federation for American Immigration Reform's name until the fourth paragraph; doing so in the subhead would have been fairer and more accurate.

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Complex Issues
Posted by: Southern Gal on Dec 17, 2007 7:18 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I believe that there are many people in this country who oppose illegal immigration because it's illegal and not because they're racist. In addition I think that people understand that the US and World Trade Organization policies are responsible for much of the flow of illegal immigrants to this country and to other countries. I think that people also understand that corporate America and the global corporations are the main beneficiares of these trade policies and cheap labor. People are worried about the direction that this country has taken. There are so many issues of concern and few politicians seem to care about the people of this country. Their main concerns are their corporate donars. People also understand that both parties would like to benefit from the votes of the immigrants in this country. By blurring the lines between illegal and legal immigration, the political parties can try to gain votes from a growing population and accuse their opponents of being racist and against all immigrants. I believe that we need a comprehensive immigration bill and policies which include protecting our borders. I'm not surprised that racist groups make illegal immigration an issue. That in itself does not mean that all people who are against illegal immigration are racists. The discussion of illegal immigration on shows like Lou Dobbs does promote discussion of issues and brings the topic to the forefront of national concerns. It seems that illegal immigration is going to be prominent in the 2008 elections and is of great interest to the people of this country. It would be desirable to see real data and reliable information used in these discussions of the issues. Give people the facts and let them form their opinions based on the facts. We saw the riots in France and we understand that this issue is not happening in just this country. People are being exploited by trade policies and are fleeing their countries for better living conditions if they can. We have families in this country who were impacted by trade policies and need resources and training to find replacement jobs. I think that people think about cleaning up our own country before they take on the issues of other countries. The fact that the trade policies of this country play a role in the conditions in other countries is of great concern. We need to elect representatives who see trade policies as a way to improve the conditions for workers in this and other countries. This is a long term problem that won't be solved quickly, but will take commitment from we the people and our government as well as governments in other countries.

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Immigrants
Posted by: frank69 on Dec 17, 2007 7:35 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm always impressed when descendents of immigrants attack new immigrants!
Unless you are a Native American Indian, shut the hell up!

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» RE: Immigrants Posted by: rinpochet
» RE: Immigrants Posted by: ynotu
» RE: Immigrants Posted by: parmenicleitus
two minutes hate
Posted by: pohjoinen on Dec 17, 2007 8:01 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In a fascist system it is vital to focus the publics attention on a scapegoat population. By focusing our hate and fear on this group, we are blinded to the real problems we face as a society. Real societal change is a terrifying concept to the corporations running this country. Which is exactly why they use people like Lou Dobbs to deflect attention from our real problems.

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» RE: two minutes hate Posted by: mountainmama
» RE: two minutes hate Posted by: donl51
» RE: two minutes hate Posted by: TheLimit
Author is a zealot herself
Posted by: mountainmama on Dec 17, 2007 8:11 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
People like this author need to watch what they say or it will come back to haunt them. She is no better then anyone else who spew out falsehoods and lumping everyone into a catagory with her own hate-filled words here. Lou Dobb's and those of us who agree with him on the ILLEGAL immigrant issue are NOT racist nor anti-immigration. As the daughter and granddaughter, on both sides, of immigrants - LEGAL ONES - I abhor her and those like her who state this mis-representation. It is BECAUSE of my LEGAL IMMIGRANT father and grandparents that I feel so strongly about the ILLEGALS. Put that into your thick head if you can, Heidi and like-minded morons!!!

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» RE: Author is a zealot herself Posted by: sailor50
» Hit the nail on the head. Posted by: ABetterFuture
webprowler
Posted by: webprowler66 on Dec 17, 2007 8:15 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
yet another head in the sand shill at work.
wake up, the flap was over illegal immigration
tell the truth or shut the hell up !

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Here we go again!
Posted by: rinpochet on Dec 17, 2007 8:22 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
not anti-IMMIGRANT. Get it right!!!!! It's anti-ILLEGAL-immigant. Now, is that so difficult?

Just love how those for open borders accuse those who believe in control of our borders as being anti-immigrant! Figure if they say it long enough someone will buy it.

I am not a racist. I am not a xenophobe. Understanding their desire to leave their country , I still believe that we cannot afford unlimited influx of illegals into this country. It has dramatically hurt the middle class by depression of their wages. What does it take to begin to stand up for the welfare of the American worker?

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» Look up. Posted by: benzene
» RE: Look up. Posted by: donl51
» RE: Look up. Posted by: skydog
Why is Beirich's Organizational Affilliation Not Disclosed?
Posted by: DrGeneNelson on Dec 17, 2007 8:42 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
See:
http://chetlyzarko.com/b2evolution/index.php?s=beirich

Heidi Beirich, Ph.D.
Deputy Director
Intelligence Project
Southern Poverty Law Center
400 Washington Ave.
Montgomery, AL 36104

'nuff said

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The Immigration Hypocrisy of White Americans
Posted by: benzene on Dec 17, 2007 8:48 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Gee, funny how everyone here can so easily forget that white people come from EUROPE, not from AMERICA, and as such, WHITE AMERICANS are IMMIGRANTS themselves. Europeans came here and stole land from the Native Americans by systemic disenfranchisement and massacre, yet now that the white Europeans are American, they forget completely about their own immigrant past. And yeah, sure, it's completely true that every single white immigrant into this country was legal, right? Bullcrap.

Anti-Immigrant Bloviated Rhetoric:

1) They're taking our jobs!

Really? Are they coming and kicking you out of your cubicle, out of your office, out of your garage or laboratory? Maybe the reason they're getting the jobs you view as yours is because they're better qualified than a lazy, uneducated and barely literate average American.

2) They're using our public services!

Good. That's what our public services are there for, to serve the public. And if they're from a poor nation or are undocumented, then where has the former promise of uplifting downtrodden huddled masses gone? Very American of you to greet them kindly.

3) They're out-breeding us!

OK, so you could a) work to make contraception free, easily available, and well-informed or you could b) own up to the fear of losing your WHITE PRIVILEGE and take a step back. White people have done an excellent job of tearing the crap out of this planet, so what gives white people the right to keep doing it? Do white people know better because they've been busy self-affirming their own shallow cultural achievements for centuries? Or is it just because white people are better in general?

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» second jobs Posted by: zooeyhall
» For what it's worth... Posted by: mjabele
Making Sense Out of Paranoia
Posted by: Ben Sen on Dec 17, 2007 8:51 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Making sense out of the paranoia that led to the defeat of Bush's bill has long been difficult. Is anyone surprised it eminates from a racist/neo-nazi source? Dobbes credibility takes the greatest hit after finding out who these guys really are. It's so odd, as a native of Mi. to find they're from Petosky. If you take trip down the Lake Mi. coast, you'll find a little town called "Climax" where the first black Americans after Reconstruction were voted into office. So don't blame the state.

The Progressive Movement in the state has a history, and is gaining momentum again in the Kalamazoo area--if nowhere else. The Democratic party needs to be built in the Northern part of the state.

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» RE: Making Sense Out of Paranoia Posted by: xennonette
Liam
Posted by: Liam on Dec 17, 2007 9:02 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As a Leftist I cannot understand these supposed "progressives" who cannot understand all the implications of the total loss of control by "our" government of U.S. borders. They call names because they have no argument - they fail to look at history (we are not living in the 1890's)-we are a country and culture in decline on all fronts and need to "Come Home America" to repair the mess that has been created over the last 40 years since Vietnam and Reagan started the destruction of the working class and American Middle Class. Why does the author think Bush supported "comprehensive "reform" on immigration? It was just another way to undercut the American Working Class - Gawd! Get real people!!! The writer of the article is the best friend the Global Capitalist have in their effort to crush the working class in this country. Dobbs has good points for discussion and I have never seen one "racist" statement in any FAIR publication I have read. AND Thom Hartmann on Air America has had the President of FAIR on his program several times. Hartmann also sees the problem for what it is - "an illegal employer problem" - put the people in jail that hires illegals and literally steal from citizens. You won't have to "round up" anyone - they will go home because there will be no jobs.

The "Liberals" are setting the Democrats up for defeat in 2008(almost an impossible task you would think) because 80% of American know their position on illegals in this country is stupid and harmful to all Americans. To call people concerned about our out of control illegal border crossers "racists" gives us the right to call you "un-American" It is the same thinking process.

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The facts are the facts.
Posted by: monkeywrench on Dec 17, 2007 9:05 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
From the article:

" 'The sad fact is that attempts to reform our immigration system are being sabotaged by organizations fueled by hate," said Henry Fernandez...' "

Yes, and the other sad fact is that immigration reform is being sabotaged by corporations, who want to continue exploiting the cheap labor of illegal immigrants.

The fact at the base of all this is that we face a logistical problem in America: our economy and society, as it is constituted today, with manufacturing jobs sent to China and our economy based on consuming on credit, simply cannot absorb all the people who come over our borders. We need a two-pronged approach: (1) More effective border enforcement and the enforcement of laws already on the books to fine those who employ illegal immigrants, and (2) a streamlined and more responsive immigration service to more quickly move those applying LEGALLY into visas and, eventually, citizenship. And, who but the federal government is responsible for improving the immigration service? The fact is, the administration has no incentive to make improvements, because their corporate masters benefit if they don't.

Exploitation by corporations through our government, both overseas via NAFTA/CAFTA, the IMF and WTO and domestically by corporations employing illegals "under the table," have created the problem of uncontrolled immigration; and our government's continued reticence to do anything about it so that corporations can continue to improve their bottom lines is the reason Lou Dobbs is so angry, but also the reason groups like FAIR get traction.

Immigrants, both legal and otherwise, are only doing what any other human being would do in their situation: trying to survive. The real culprits are not immigrants; the real culprits are the cutthroat corporations who exploit them.

(A little piece of info. not too many hear: a friend of ours teaches English As A Second Language to immigrants, both recent and long-term, some of them questionably legal. What she is hearing from some of them is that they are considering returning to Mexico or other home countries, because life here has become so expensive and difficult. It seems that, thanks to exploitive administration policies at all levels, the American Dream is dying for immigrants as well. The problem for us and for them is that they don't realize it until after they have sacrificed their history and family to make the arduous journey here.)

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Has it ever occured to anyone
Posted by: willymack on Dec 17, 2007 9:49 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That there just might be an upward limit to HOW MANY PEOPLE IN ANY GIVEN PLACE ARE ENOUGH, AND HOW MANY ARE TOO MANY? Our current system of inviting anyone in the world with a grudge against the political/economic situation in their native land began in the 1800s when vast tracks of our country were uninhabited, and there was a lot of money to be made through the exploitation of immigrants, real estate deals, mining, logging, etc. The "frontier" is long gone, now, and over 300 million of us infest this country and are doing their level best to trash it. As far as I know, precious few are asking the question:"How many are too many"? Five hundred million? A billion? Don't think a billion people will fit into our country? Look at India which is roughly 2/3 the size of the continental US, and has over a billion people in it. As far as I'm concerned we ALREADY have far too many people here as we can't seem to be able to take care of what we've got. We simply don't need any more. Is this a hateful thought? Hardly.

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» RE: Has it ever occured to anyone Posted by: leemiller38
» literally BILLIONS Posted by: zooeyhall
learn the difference between egocentrism and sociocentrism
Posted by: Vince Coit on Dec 17, 2007 9:52 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The only demonstrative statement offered by Beirich of Tanton’s “vision” is a statement about birth rates. It is very positive to acknowledge the fallacy of Beirich’s analysis; to take one demonstrative statement of Tanton’s "vision" and directly associate that statement with something totally separate. It is not a trivial connection in going from a statement about rates, birth rates for example, to statement(s) about individuals. Yet, this is consistently the tactic used to motivate feeling-based influence amongst the readership. This one statement about rates is followed by strung together, loosely coupled, often dependent clauses with indefinite context. So, this is not very good journalism. Certainly, natural science metaphors, such as the Petri plate thing mentioned in the article is cause for further concern whenever someone might take a natural scientist’s word for how to run a society. FAIR might not be comprised of good people, I don’t know based on this article, but Beirich’s race-baiting is insulting to my intelligence. I doubt anyone at FAIR or Beirich, alike could ever adequately make good a case where population levels, immigration rates, and macro-effects on society link so directly to the individual as this article suggests. It is fallacious to base a public policy as such.

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Americans are beautiful
Posted by: Lauren on Dec 17, 2007 9:57 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Beautiful men and music.

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BRAVO LOU DOBBS!!
Posted by: darkhorse on Dec 17, 2007 10:01 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It seems to me that Alternet must've lined up their supporters for this Monday morning's spew of misinformation & corporate suckass dance.

That 'article' is so full of venom, misinformation and slant that it's not even readable, never mind accurate.

If there's one thing that has kept me from calling myself a liberal it's the slanted propagandistic crap like this.

Bravo Lou Dobbs!!

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» RE: AND YOU.. Posted by: donl51
Realist not racist..
Posted by: TJ-stars4peace on Dec 17, 2007 10:06 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Lou Dobbs next to Kieth Olbermann is the greatest critic of the Bush Administration on regular cable TV..

Lou's criticism of Bush and this entire administration is not just in regard to Illegal Immigration either..but a wide variety of topics and issues..

The ideological purification that occurs on the left often turns away some of those voices that are more effective in their criticism of Bush than 10,000 blogs..

The same was true of Dom Imus who right on air called Dick Cheney a "dick head..!"

Now Lou is such a racist he is married to a Hispanic woman and has his Hispanic in-laws living nicely in New Jersey with him..!


The issue is the overwhelming numbers of the ILLEGAL immigrants are their racists involved in this issue sure I guess but they are on the fringe and and expose themselves by their actions and rhetoric..!

My first concern is my fellow Americans of the middle and working class and poor and my black brothers who are getting clobbered by the jobs being taken from them and wages falling below living wages..

Take New