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Once Upon a Time the Religious Right Demonized Christmas, Even Banning Its Celebration

By Rob Boston, Church and State. Posted December 8, 2007.


It's the Christmas tale the Religious Right doesn't want you to hear: Their spiritual forebearers hated the holiday and even banned its celebration.
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It's ironic to hear Religious Right groups portray themselves as the great defenders of Christmas - their spiritual forebears hated the holiday and even banned its celebration.

The Puritans of Massachusetts Bay frowned on Christmas revelry, considering the holiday a Roman Catholic affectation. A law in the colony barred anyone from taking the day off work, feasting or engaging in other celebrations on Christmas, under penalty of a five-shilling fine.

The law was repealed in 1681, but Christmas celebrations remained unpopular in New England and other colonies for many years. That did not change after the Revolution, because many Americans viewed Christmas as a Tory custom, a reminder of the expelled British.

Although Christmas became popular in the South as early as the 1830s, other regions were apathetic. Writer Tom Flynn notes in his 1993 book The Trouble with Christmas that Congress did not begin adjourning on Christmas Day until 1856. Public schools in New England were often open on Dec. 25, as were many factories and offices. Many Protestant churches refused to hold services, considering the holiday "popish."

Not until after the Civil War did Christmas begin to seriously affect American cultural and religious life. European immigration increased sharply after the war, and many of the newcomers came from countries with strong Christmas traditions. Germans, Italians, Poles, Swedes, Norwegians and others brought the holiday and many of its features, including Christmas trees and Santa Claus, to America in a big way.

The celebration spread, and in 1870 Christmas was declared a federal holiday by Congress. But practices in the states continued to vary. As late as 1931, Flynn reports, nine states still called for public schools to remain open on Christmas Day.

It might also surprise Religious Right activists to learn that many of the Christmas traditions they defend so vociferously have, at best, a tenuous connection to Christianity.

Several of the holiday's most common features grow out of pre-Christian religions. The ancient Romans celebrated Saturnalia in mid-December, a time of general merriment, feasting and gift exchanges. Slaves were given time off and were even permitted to play dice games in public. During this period, many Romans decorated their homes with evergreens as a reminder that life would persevere through the dark days of winter.

Evergreen trees had long been viewed as a symbol of fertility by Pagan peoples. When winter came and most trees lost their leaves and appeared to die, the evergreen was a reminder that life would endure and that long days, warmer weather and a harvest would come again. Germans were early boosters of the Christmas tree and brought it to America. (The pious legend that Martin Luther decorated the first Christmas tree is not taken seriously by scholars.)

Candles, a necessary item during the dark winter period, were a common Saturnalia gift. Some scholars consider them a precursor to Christmas lights.

Originally celebrated on Dec. 17, the Roman Saturnalia eventually expanded to last an entire week, ending on Dec. 23.

So where did the Dec. 25 date for Christmas come from?

Many scholars believe that date came from another Roman festival, one that became popular around the middle of the third century - the feast of Sol Invictus, the unconquered sun.

During this festival, various gods related to the sun in the Roman pantheon were honored. The festival was most popular during the reign of the emperor Aurelian (270-275 A.D.), who attributed his military victories to the sun god and may have wanted to establish a solar deity as supreme in the Roman pantheon. Images of Sol Invictus remained popular and appeared on Roman coinage even during the reign of Constantine the Great (306-337 A.D.).

There is some evidence that early Christians celebrated the festival alongside Pagans, and that church leaders, seeing these practices under way, simply appropriated the date for the birth of Jesus as Christianity grew and became the dominant religion of the empire throughout the fourth and fifth centuries.

Michael Grant, the late scholar of the ancient world, noted in his 1985 book The Roman Emperors that Dec. 25 was "a bequest of the solar cult to Christianity, converted into Christmas Day."

Legal codes laid down by the emperors Theodosius I and later Justinian made Christianity the state religion and banned Paganism. Church leaders were generally tolerant of people taking old practices and adding a Christian gloss to them. Overt worship of Pagan gods disappeared but the Dec.25 date - and many residual practices associated with the old festival - remained.

As strange as it may seem, when Religious Right legal groups go to court to battle the "War on Christmas," they may really be defending practices historically associated with the worship not of the son of God but the sun in the sky.

Digg!

See more stories tagged with: religious right, war on christmas, puritans

Rob Boston is associate editor for Church and State magazine.

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Dr John
Posted by: jnyren on Dec 8, 2007 3:38 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Christmas was NOT "demonized" : it was ruled out because it was a gigantic festival of various horrors and terrible excesses for centuries, until Christians came to re-name it as a sacred feast of the Nativity. After giving up a tenured professorship in History to minister full time, I introduced Christmas services in 2 different parishes in two lands for the first time - to the delight of all. The Neo-Cons have responsbility for a great deal of suffering imposed by their 'allies' without adding misleading charges like this one, please.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Dr John Posted by: paulaH
» CANNABIS AND THE CHRIST!!! Posted by: garry minor
» RE: Dr John Posted by: PaulK
» RE: Dr John Posted by: wdlee69
Coal the "far left" and "Religious right" this year!
Posted by: rocketman on Dec 8, 2007 4:00 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The religious right is a horror akin to the far left..As a Roman Cahtolic their constant efforts to attack my religion demonstrates their lack of tollerence for anything not in their belief system, if they even have one..

Christmas, regardless of it's origins has come to represent a time of joy & sharing. Leave it to the far left and retail companies to try to erase one of the few moments in our year that actually possesses real values.

This is one of the best times of the year and it's a pitty some cannot get in the mood of sharing.

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» It's only a name............ Posted by: rocketman
» and the point is.......... Posted by: rocketman
» The giveaway Posted by: paulaH
» RE: The giveaway Posted by: Lauren
» RE: The giveaway Posted by: rocketman
» RE: The giveaway Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: The giveaway Posted by: rocketman
» RE: The giveaway Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: The giveaway Posted by: rocketman
» RE: The giveaway Posted by: Lauren
» RE: back atcha rocket! Posted by: donl51
» RE: back atcha rocket! Posted by: rocketman
Induction, Reduction and Extension
Posted by: talkville on Dec 8, 2007 4:15 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The particular individual raises his or her beliefs to the general population; the beliefs are reduced to Christianity and Christianity is extended to ALL.

The religious 'right' and 'left' wants to be right (not to deny that the non-religious also want to be right). The problem is moving toward the Right in all these circumstances and assuming that there is an individual, a group or a section of human beings that are right -- the impulse towards totality and absolutism.

This is why democratic participation and reasoning is quite urgent in these times, lest Priests, Patriarchs and Tyrants of all kinds bring about the Rule that they wish to have and which they are imposing as we speak.

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Pagan origin and Lunatics!
Posted by: Orientalist on Dec 8, 2007 4:33 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Pagan origin and Lunatics!

Everybody who have study history and specially the history of Christians knows that Christmas has a pagan origin and was adopted and recreated to fit the system the same goes for many of the Saints too!

And these "Pilgrims" who fled Europe was a bunch of lunatics and we can see today that their interpretation of Christianity deviated totally from the message of Jesus and does so even more today.

Just look at the Calvinists to make an example the accumulation of wealth and their philosophies that the wealthier you are the more Jesus loves you, when his message was precise the opposite!

He said to the rich man when asked how he could enter the Kingdom of GOD. Jesus said give away all what have and follow me, the man left with an angry face! And there you have your "Pilgrims"!

We all know about the rich man and the camel and the needle of the eye.

And look at the Preachers with yearly income of millions fo $$$$$$$$$$$$$$!

Talk about hypocrites! 100 million of them only in US, maybe even more!

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don't perpetuate the myth that the revolution was a 100% success
Posted by: Suzon on Dec 8, 2007 4:45 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That did not change after the Revolution, because many Americans viewed Christmas as a Tory custom, a reminder of the expelled British.

True, some monarchists did up sticks and move to Canada. And the "Tory" militia (Hessian soldiers) were forced to ship out. But of the third of the population estimated to be pro-British [sic], a significant number stayed put, thank you very much.

It's today's descendants of the Norman-English elite who are causing such havoc with the constitution they have never accepted as legitimate.

The religious right is merely a power base which can be and is manipulated. Christmas is one of those convenient distractions, like abortion and gay marriage. Get the simple folks all het up about them topics and they won't notice that we're pickin' their pockets!

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Happy Solstice Day!!!!
Posted by: xvictor on Dec 8, 2007 5:26 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Let's remove the "xian" from this holiday and head back to pagan basics. Saturnalia would approve!!!

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» Which holiday? Posted by: SayBlade
» RE: Which holiday? Posted by: Lauren
They should do it again too !
Posted by: donl51 on Dec 8, 2007 6:28 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Its become more the go crazy and shop to you drop ,spoil your kids day! anyway,and I'm a dyed in the wool athiest,normally I don't care what religions do just as long as they don't put ''it'' or their god in my face ,but today its going on all over I'm not that nutcase out in Calif. who wants the word ''god'' taken out of the word''god'' and do we /I really give two shits if the money in my hand says 'in god we trust'? hell its seldom in my hands long enough to read what it says!It could say Donald Duck Blows,I built up to being a ''non-beleiver'' was'nt born one,I like it ,keeps things simple,guilt goes away,then along come the atheists w/the rules,may as well go back to being a catholic,....a dreadfull thought! Puritans should have been shot not cast out to the colonies,some day we'll get you Britts back for that one!....so yeah do it again fu%#@*ng,hypocrites anyway,who's behind it this time? evangelests? what a money making racket that is! gotta love it....donl

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More History
Posted by: wawa on Dec 8, 2007 6:36 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
All educated Christians are well aware of the pagan roots of the church institution.

All educated Christians are also aware that the corruption of the gospel Jesus preached began in the third century when the most decisive event in the history of Christendom occurred.



In 313, Emperor Constantine accepted the Christian faith, and those who had once been persecuted were now protected by an earthly king.


Both a patriarchal monarchical state and church were formed at the same time.


Power struggles and debates were common among the early Christians.

Individual churches determined which texts were read, and they all had their favorites.

Constantine sought to unite his empire, and uniting the church was a savvy political move. He understood what power could be had via ONE government and ONE church united.



Constantine announced he would pay for fifty illuminated copies of scripture to be bound, and thus the biblical canon was established and sealed.


There was fierce debate among the bishops about what should be included and what left out.

The fundamentally minded proto-orthodox had become the dominant voice and they determined what was heretical for everyone.

The proto-orthodox demanded much-loved scripture to be burned, usually because it did not fit their understanding of God.


Have you heard the true tale of a Bedouin named Mohammed Ali and the Nag´ Hammâdi library?
[Learn More:"Keep Hope Alive"]


Before Emperor Constantine brought Christianity into the mainstream, all the early Church Fathers taught that Christians should not serve in the army but instead willingly suffer rather than inflict harm on any other.

St. Augustine was the first Church Father to consider the concept of a Just War. Within 100 years after Constantine, the Empire required that all soldiers in the army must be baptized Christians and thus, the corruption of Christianity as we know it today, began in earnest. [Learn More: "Memoirs of a Nice Irish American 'Girl's' Life in Occupied Territory"]


Eileen Fleming, Reporter and Editor
Http://www.wearewideawake.org/
Author and Producer "30 Minutes With Vanunu"

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» Intelligent Christians? Posted by: Ellie1
» boy, have you got it wrong Posted by: KaptainSpiffy
» RE: Intelligent Christians? Posted by: rocketman
» RE: Intelligent Christians? Posted by: donl51
» Very Intelligent Christians Posted by: rocketman
» RE: to rocketman Posted by: donl51
» RE: to rocketman Posted by: rocketman
» RE: More History Posted by: Lauren
» RE: More History Posted by: Philip Newton
» RE: More History Posted by: Lauren
» Paulianna Posted by: Philip Newton
» RE: Paulianna Posted by: kidsis
Christmas is largely an economic celebration
Posted by: Wexler on Dec 8, 2007 6:40 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Christmas has devolved to where it has about the same religious significance as opening day of bass fishing season. It's worked out well for merchants, who depend on it as a vehicle to capitalize on sentimentality and a population given to excess.

The righty/lefty argument is somewhat interesting but largely irrelevent. It's true that the right has been much more clever about pandering to the "Christians". I put them in quotes because I have serious doubts that Christ would recognize the greedy, warmongering, spiteful bastards that keep protesting that they ARE indeed Christians. However, the lefties still pander with the best of them.

I'm waiting for the day when a reporter asks a presidential candidate to explain their religious beliefs and the candidate responds with "None of your Thor damn business!"

-Wexler

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» Don't be thor... Posted by: Philip Newton
» RE: Don't be thor... Posted by: parmenicleitus
This item from ALTERNET
Posted by: frank69 on Dec 8, 2007 6:45 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I don't care what the evangelical wingnuts think. Their ravings and rantings are boring.

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» RE: This item from ALTERNET Posted by: Lauren
Good Grief! This Must Be a Slow News Day
Posted by: rcase on Dec 8, 2007 6:49 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is good to know there are not worse crises in the world to take up our discussion time. The Puritans, to whom we all owe a great deal, did not celebrate Christmas because the day had lost is spiritual significance, and was associated with a culture they did not want to be a part of. What this has to do with the religious right I have not the slighest idea, except perhaps that the Puritans believed in something and the religious right believes in something in a mostly cynical and self-serving world. It is more than the religious right that bemoans the secularization of a religious holiday. If the atheists and the secularists want their own holiday, fine. I can't imagine they would have anything to celebrate (except perhaps for New Year's, an opportunity to party and get drunk). No one has to celebrate Christmas. Other religions have their own holidays and I don't see people criticizing them for public displays of faith. It seems that what we have here is people who just don't like Christians and what they stand for.

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» Yep. Posted by: Philip Newton
The 17th-century War on Christmas
Posted by: Lloyd Drako on Dec 8, 2007 7:00 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
was a "left," not a "right" movement--so far as those terms have any meaning at all prior to the French Revcolution. English and New English Puritans, besides objecting to the pagan trappings of Christmas, also opposed arbitrary arrest and imprisonment, taxation without representation, and centralized royal absolutism. If those are "religious right" positions, then the Stuarts were far-left commies. In our indignation at all the "war on Christmas" doodah, let's at least get our history right!

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» Sorry forgot to say Posted by: moflard
» RE: Sorry forgot to say Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Sorry forgot to say Posted by: EncinoM
The giveaway
Posted by: paulaH on Dec 8, 2007 7:24 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Christians don't understand the giveaway, though, Lauren. It's so totally foreign to them. They think it's crazy. At least the Christians I've talked to do. This attitude makes it hard for me to buy into their whole "Christians are all about love and giving" propaganda.

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17th Century right and left wings?
Posted by: Sojourner on Dec 8, 2007 7:44 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Is the author comparing the Puritans as "right wing" to the Anglican Church? How do heretics from the king's religion amount to "right wing"?

No one on the left wing of the Protestant Reformation (Quakers, Mennonites, Unitarians, etc.) celebrated Christmas at that time. Even the Eastern Orthodox Church waits until Twelfth Night, when the magi are reputed to have reached the manger.

To bother to even give the psuedo-complaints of religious bigotry the time of day wastes all our time.

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All Hail the Unconquerable Sun!
Posted by: aonghus36 on Dec 8, 2007 9:42 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hail Sol!
I think the Yule celebration also had something to do with the Winter Solstice, as well. We could maybe consider that the calenders have been changed and modified various times since Pagan Rome.

Happy Yule,
Aonghus

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Eat, drink and be miserable;
Posted by: Richard House on Dec 8, 2007 9:51 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
this is the true cost of the addiction. Meanwhile, what about the coming financial melt-down. I heard gold prices are going to double and we'll all be rolling wheel-barrels of worthless dollars to the bakery to buy a loaf of bread.

Merry Winter Solstice!

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Apples and Oranges
Posted by: Philip Newton on Dec 8, 2007 10:03 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The author takes the modern perception of "Right" and "Left" and attempts to paste it over almsot two thousand years of Christian history.

Doesn't work.

Doesn't translate.

Shows remarkable ignorance of history and a facile apprehension of modern politics.

Grade: "F"

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» it's called perspective Posted by: KaptainSpiffy
Evangelism is the base for American Fascism..!
Posted by: TJ-stars4peace on Dec 8, 2007 11:10 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Religious right in America are nothing less than fascists as Sinclair Lewis knew well and predicted..

Evangelism is the base of American Fascism..!


Simple as that..

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Not so ancient history
Posted by: YogiBear on Dec 8, 2007 2:02 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When I first moved to the South in the mid 1990s, I ended up working at a small, weekly paper. One of our regular features was to go through old editions for interesting tidbits of news. I more than once found Santa equals Satan columns penned by local pastors only 5 or 10 years old.

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Come on
Posted by: willymack on Dec 8, 2007 2:36 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Ever take note of all the neat doo-dads hawked by hysterical loudmouths on TV for only $19.95? The actual value of those products is probably closer to $2.Enthusiasm sells; it doesn't seem to matter what the product is. Ever wonder why there are so many sects and facets of the christian faith? See where this is going? Hmm?

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» pfft! but wait! there's more! Posted by: KaptainSpiffy
Right? - Left? = Paganism?
Posted by: rjs on Dec 8, 2007 4:08 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I haven't celebrated any of the modern holidays in the United States since I was 8. I am now 41.

Most that study the scripture and follow after what they believe will understand that Christmas is founded on events that date much earlier than Christianity itself. Some like myself might even state that it's origins derive from pagan (Festivities not correlated to scripture). This is the same for the druids, all hollows eve and much of what we have here in the United States.

Seldom do you see any real puritans teaching the scripture and making it clear to follow the feasts as outlined in the scripture itself. To do away with man made customs and follow after what the scripture plainly lays out as the festivities associated with serving and praising the creator.

This right left nonsense has nothing to do with the Tetragrammaton, the first settlers, what was believed, and for what purpose the United States was settled in the first place. There is no right and left.
I hear this all the time. The scripture tells us to come reason with one another and to seek council. Is that what is happening in the United States? Is that your theory of Right/Left in regards to so called "Religion"? I'll state this right now, this is all mockery.

Christmas should not be celebrated. Nor any other man made so called holiday. We should be celebrating Yahweh's Separated Days or Feasts as commanded in the scripture for all that love and believe. The Messiah, Yahshua, was not born in December. Nor was his birth to be celebrated. On the contrary,it was his death that was to be celebrated which gave meaning to new life and resurrection.

This political posturing when speaking of modern day "religions" or "celebrations" is nothing more than a way to keep the hatred between people propped up and moving forward. Why give division of spirit the blessings you write with by establishing your belief in "Right and Left"? How about just right and wrong?

Or is there a such thing as right and wrong in the United States in 2007, December?

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Ambivalent About Jesus
Posted by: AlexLawyer on Dec 8, 2007 6:38 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The BARN (born again redneck) constituency has an ambivalent relationship with Jesus. They passionately believe in him, but they don't believe him. He's an icon, but they ridicule his teachings about peacefulness, love, compassion and social justice when they come from anyone else's mouth, and they certainly prefer the vengeance, warmongering and violence of the early Old Testament to the liberal, do-gooder, peacenik Jesus's teachings. George Bush's agenda, which the BARNs wholeheartedly support, is the antithesis of everything their putative savior taught.

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» RE: Ambivalent About Jesus Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Ambivalent About Jesus Posted by: rocketman
» Grade: A Posted by: Philip Newton
"Shock Doctrine" iterate
Posted by: ray burchard on Dec 8, 2007 9:27 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How is it that the Alternet readership can see the brilliance in Naomi Klein’s context analysis, where she suggest that corporate America’s greed appropriates and capitalizes on the public vulnerability and their sentiment of giving at a time when the public’s psychological guard is down. But this same readership can’t and/or won’t acknowledge the fact that corporate greed (merchants) are in charge of pushing the opening of the Christmas season earlier and earlier every year. Then this same corporate greed conspire with network TV and radio seasonal programming and where they also exaggerate approaching snowy, frosty wintry conditions and thereby hammer home consumerism.

Then in light of this subliminal mind control, where corporate America’s greed manipulate America’s population into a consumer spending frenzy, and all you people can see to discuss is who’s Christmas is it. Sounds like a mindset of emotional and superfluous considerations, like, cosmetic adornment, body piercing and body art. Maybe there is validity to Lawrence Summer’s proclamation.

Wake the fuck up, the only difference between American society and an ant colony’s oligarchic system, is that Americans have free will, but obviously not the intellect to use it or defend it.

This is what happens when we allow America’s politicians to sell our sovereign powers with no allegiance to civic responsibility, for campaign financing.

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Many Names For the Same Thing
Posted by: sofla100 on Dec 8, 2007 9:30 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Born Agains just want to define Christmas the way THEY want to define it. But, I think we should all define it in accordance with what we, as individuals, believe. If you believe in Buddha, remember Buddha, if you believe in Allah, remember Mohammed, if you are a Jew, remember Moses and if you are a Hindu, remember Krishna. Of course, if you are a Christian, remember Jesus. See the arbitrary nature of how God is called is based on culture and belief system. If God only wanted to be called one way, such as Jesus, God would not be God. Therefore, it is right that many names can really mean the same thing. Argument about this is futile.

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The Late Revival
Posted by: GPFrank on Dec 8, 2007 9:55 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Here in Bradford Vt. there were no lights on Christmas as recently as 1970.

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» RE: The Late Revival Posted by: Lauren
By the second century, there was no way to know what really happened.
Posted by: AsteroidMiner on Dec 8, 2007 11:58 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As a sophomore undergraduate student in Physics, your homework may include
figuring out when the second coming would be required, assuming that the bible
was 100% true in the year zero. That is, when would the bible be down to 50%
true? The popular and professors' answer in 1965 was the year 500. The true
answer: A friend of mine was born and raised in Budapest, Hungary. As an adult,
he came here and stayed. After 25 years, he visited his home town of Budapest.
He was unable to communicate with his high school classmates because the
Hungarian language had changed so much. The correct answer is less than 25
years. The first gospel was not written down until 50 years after the alleged
events and then in a different language. The people who told the story were at
about the same level of civilization as "wild Indians", I mean Native Americans
before Columbus got here. We have all played or seen played the game called
"Telephone" in which a story is passed down a line of re-tellers. By the Sixth re-
telling, the story has no resemblance to the original. The gospel story had to have
been re-told at least 6 times before it was mis-translated the first time. [Note that
whoever wrote it down the first time was free to write whatever he wanted to.
The storytellers were illiterate and unable to check his written text by reading it.
Besides that, he wrote in Greek rather than Aramaic.] Conclusion: There is no
truth anywhere in the bible, and there never was. There is no way to know what
"jesus" or "mohamed" or any other such character actually said or did.

ALL of the jurisdictions that were formerly in the jurisdiction of religion have
been taken over by Science. There is no longer a need to debate the issue.
Religion is an unfortunate side effect of a major and ongoing step in evolution.
[Not that evolution has a predetermined direction. We could devolve, but we have
to get over religion or go extinct. "God" will not save us from the consequences
of global warming or an asteroid impact because there is no such critter as "god.".]
Ethics and morality are instinctive, not derived from religion. Female instinct has
greater force in morality than male instinct because the female is in command of
the sexual encounter. Look up "Sociobiology". The origin of the Universe is the
subject of Cosmology which is part of astronomy which is part of the science of
physics.
Religion is a SCAM. ANY religion, there are 10,000 to choose from at any one
time. People keep inventing new religions [for the benefit of the "prophet," of
course] and forgetting other religions. ALL preachers, priests, imams, rabbis,
iatolas, etc. belong in jail for "grand theft, bunko type".
But I really like to see the children's faces light up on Xmas morning when they
open presents. I am a BRIGHT.

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» Have I read this before? Posted by: moflard
» So what you mean is... Posted by: moflard
» Hmmm Posted by: Philip Newton
Religion is caused by insanity. Some good books:
Posted by: AsteroidMiner on Dec 9, 2007 12:10 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"The Neuropsychological bases of god beliefs" Dr. Michael A. Persinger
MD, psychiatrist 1987 "Religious people are just like my temporal lobe
patients"

"The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bi-Cameral Mind"
Julian Jaynes Professor, Harvard University 1976
"Religious people are just like schizophrenic patients"

"The Psychiatric Interview in Clinical Practice" Roger A. MacKinnon,
M.D., Robert Michels, M.D. W. B. Saunders Co. 1971
"Religiosity is a common symptom [of] schizophrenic patients"

"The God delusion" by Richard Dawkins. "Religion is caused by a kind
of computer virus that infects the living computer, the human brain."

"The Science of Good and Evil" by Michael Shermer, 2004
"Morality and Ethics are now in the jurisdiction of Science and greatly
improved thereby."

"God: The Failed Hypothesis" byVictor Stenger Scientific proof that god
does not exist.

"The Accidental Mind" by David J. Linden, 2007. No INTELLIGENT
designer could have had anything to do with such a klugey brain.

"Scientists Confront Intelligent Design and Creationism" edited by Petto &
Godfrey, 2007. The ID and creationist crowd are trying to do away with
science. They see science as a "godless religion." They say training in
science is brainwashing. The creationists are seriously mentally ill.

Other authors: Sam Harris, Christopher Hitchens

I call myself a "bright."

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» Question Posted by: moflard
What's the problem?
Posted by: Nigelthebriton on Dec 9, 2007 5:55 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Evergreen trees had long been viewed as a symbol of fertility by Pagan peoples".

Even in the churchyard at Portchester near where I live, there's a yew tree - a symbol of continuity that predates the church itself (from 1183). Mid summer in Latvia (Jani) is always celebrated by dancing round an Oak tree.

So what's the problem, then? As usual with these religious busybodies, there's much ado about nothing.

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God Did Not Write the Holy Books Anyway
Posted by: sofla100 on Dec 9, 2007 7:21 AM   
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Why do people want God to be a politician? A God who was a politician would not be God. There are so many religions and belief systems in the World. From atheism and science to literal interpretation of the Bible. Also, every religion wants to have its "choosen peoples." When will people realize that all religions have their "choosen peoples." All religions have holy books. However, God is not on TV telling any of us what the truth is (700 club to the contrary) is he? Fundamentalists therefore are problematic because they don't realize the relative nature of how things can be defined. They want to depend on 1000 year old books, many of which today contain a lot of nonsense as times and society have changed (such as the role of women, etc.). And, by the way, God did not write those books, people did.

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I think you're o