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Are You a "Sex Addict?"

By Rachel Kramer Bussel, Huffington Post. Posted December 1, 2007.


Is the bogeyman of "sexual addiction" scaring people out of having sex?

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Kevin Federline accused Britney Spears of being one, Gerald Ford thought Bill Clinton was one (and Clinton has had counseling for it), British comedian Russell Brand just came out as one, and Halle Berry's ex-husband Eric Benet sought treatment for it. But who's really a sex addict, and does it matter?

Sex addiction can be a real problem, but it can also be a way to hide from responsibility for one's actions, while blaming sex and sexual expression for the ills of society, including your own behavior. That's too easy of a scapegoat. Michael Leahy, who claims that pornography "ruined his marriage," has now found a new career preaching his anti-porn gospel to college students. A recent article states:

"I cheated on my wife, I broke my kid's hearts, I lied pathologically for years," Leahy said. "I knew what it meant to say you're a sinner."

For this reason, Leahy said he feels the call to talk to students, because anywhere from 6 to 8 percent of them might be in the same position he was, and he wants them to know they are not alone.

"Sex is front and center in our world today," Leahy said. "What you feed grows and what you starve dies."

I'm not sure how Leahy goes from eluding responsibility to then blaming sex itself. He even coins the phrase "sex syndrome" to "describe weakness sometimes brought on by the hyper-sexed media and pornography." This is a dangerous, alarming, and problematic way of thinking which is insulting to men, reducing them to mere automatons ready to lap up any message sent to them, unable to separate fantasy from reality.

The confusion over the line between healthy sexuality and sex "addiction" is crystal clear from the Sexhelp.com Sex Addiction Screening Test (SAST). According to the site, it was "[d]eveloped in cooperation with hospitals, treatment programs, private therapists, and community groups, the SAST provides a profile of responses which help to discriminate between addictive and non-addictive behavior." Questions range from "Have you regularly purchased romantic novels or sexually explicit magazines?" and "Have you regularly engaged in sadomasochistic behavior?" to "Have you traded sex for money or gifts?" and ends with "Have you been paid for sex?" The 45 questions are all over the map, probing intense issues with yes or no answers as well as other relatively common activities which are cast in a negative tone by dint of their inclusion (watching porn, BDSM).

Let's take the ridiculously vague question, "Do you hide some of your sexual behaviors from others?" I'd bet that anyone answering honestly would say a big, fat yes to that one. Even those of us who are somewhat exhibitionistic likely do not tell everyone we meet how we last got laid. Or what about "Have you used the internet to make romantic or erotic connections with people online?" Who knew that online dating was a precursor to sex addiction?

As it turns out, I don't meet the criteria for sex addiction, but as a person who cares about the state of human sexuality, I'm appalled at the sex-negative tone of this supposedly scientific, doctor-approved quiz. (If you're curious, I answered "yes" to questions 3, 5, 28, 36, 37, and 39). If you're looking to label anyone who consumes sexual media, hasn't always been interested in monogamy, has done any form of sex work, or, at some point, might have found sex anything but perfect, then by all means, use this assessment. But sex addiction is not something that can be simply or easily codified. Someone might have sex with a different partner every week (or more frequently) and not be a sex addict, but simply someone who enjoys sexual variety. Likewise, if you're locked in your basement 24/7 and don't seek any other sexual outlet aside from pornography, you may be (but are not necessarily) a sex addict, even though you're celibate. But who's making these judgments? MSNBC's Brian Alexander rightly points out that the these questions are hopelessly vague, and could potentially snare anyone in their net, as well as the fact that sex addiction is not recognized in the DSM (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders).


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Rachel Kramer Bussel is an author and editor of over a dozen erotic anthologies, most recently Hide and Seek and Crossdressing. She hosts In The Flesh Erotic Reading Series and is a former sex columnist for The Village Voice.

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More medievalism
Posted by: talkville on Dec 1, 2007 1:32 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
By now it seems that just about anything in the social and cultural atmosphere is eligible to be harnessed in the service of repression -- a long-standing and well developed mode of domination and control. Priests and ministers need 'flocks', and many now have donned white coats and other titles, and they 'counsel' and 'take confessions' in places other than churches or temples. As long as one is scared, they are happy; by any means necessary.

Me, I'm addicted to water and food. Already many foods are not good for my libido and perhaps affect it in undesirable ways, or so I'm told by the 'experts' (a Mask very often). Soon, I must expect to be informed that if I drink too much or not enough water it may affect my behavior towards those I might find exciting or arousing!

In these Puritan and Victorian times of ours there's an active search for ways and means by which the 'flocks' can be made to stay in their pastures and graze under their ever austere and watchful eye. And there's technologies now that make it ever so much easier!

Meanwhile, more and more neuroses, psychoses, schizophrenias and paranoias emerge in larger and larger scales.

All for the maxim: "Father Knows Best". And don't you forget it! If you do, expect to be Branded or Marked - really or symbolically - and forced to confess and repudiate your sins in the Public Square.

I need a glass of water...

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» RE: More medievalism Posted by: JOHN L.
Am I a sex addict?
Posted by: vox persona on Dec 1, 2007 2:05 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Heck no, I can quit anytime I want to, yeah, that's the ticket....anytime I want. I just don't want to, it would be unfair to my girlfriend. Any more dumb questions?

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» RE: Am I a sex addict? Posted by: Landbaron
This is a good description of what is wrong with men.
Posted by: leland61 on Dec 1, 2007 3:41 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is a dangerous, alarming, and problematic way of thinking which is insulting to men, reducing them to mere automatons ready to lap up any message sent to them, unable to separate fantasy from reality.

If it were not the truth about men, the males of the species, we would not be in Iraq and Afghanistan. The Islamic terrorists (religion) would not have attacked us. The Xtian fundies would not be howling insanely about their collective fantasy of 'creationism' as some sort of actual science. The illustrations of the inability of males in particular of being unable to separate fantasy from reality and act on their fantasies are abundant and all around us every day. It is males who make religions of war, make war, hate peace, love weapons small and large.

Get real. The fact so obvious from the history of humankind is that the male of the species is THE PROBLEM AND ALMOST NEVER THE SOLUTION - MAKE THAT NEVER THE SOLUTION.

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» Give me a break Posted by: supercrisp
» You're right Posted by: timemachinist
» Women selecting for aggressive men Posted by: MartianBachelor
» Does that mean Posted by: surfreality
» You've got a serious problem Posted by: WhuThe?!?
We Need To Stop Celebritizing Reformed Sinners
Posted by: Gravitas on Dec 1, 2007 7:23 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"I cheated on my wife, I broke my kid's hearts, I lied pathologically for years," Leahy said. "I knew what it meant to say you're a sinner."

This type of public self flagelation repulses me to the core. Yet we give so much attention to these creatures, whether they be "reformed fatties'" or reformed "sex addicts." I think it is a combination of our unhealthy Puritan roots, plus our ingrained belief that everyone is entitled to their 15 minutes of fame. What do you do if you have no talent but want the spotlight? Losing weight and ramble on about how you were killing yourself with your knife and fork is still the best way. But if you were thin to begin with, repenting over sex is making a come back as a close second. If only we could stop obsessing over things that give us pleasure! We might find moderation easier. We might also have to develop a moral system around ethical treatment of the planet and each other!

p.s. I think it may be inappropriate to model sex addiction after alcohol addiction. I have always thought overeaters anonymous was full of crap. Dieting causes binging period. Even rats binge after dieting. Our sex drive is so strong because it enables the survival of the species. As does eating. Alcohol does not. Other cultures have recognized monogamy is not for everyone and seem to be faring much better than we are. They have accepted human nature and moved on to start solving social ills while we can't get past our obsessions.

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Sex addiction is real....
Posted by: zanychris on Dec 1, 2007 7:41 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The author, in her attempt to be "sex-positive" and uberhip, totally minimizes what sex addiction really is about: can one control their behavior if it is destructive? Clearly, sex has become a medication for these people, hiding their emotions--just like any other addiction. It is not about looking at porn, except if it is taking over your life.

I also wonder what made her think she needed to save us from these Puritans? Now THAT is hubris...

The author goes back and forth between this cool demeanor and Puritanism: sex addiction obscures one responsibility? Um, you clearly have not been to any twelve step programs. Admitting you have a problem is about taking responsibility. One has to make amends to those s/he hurt. So please know what you are talking about before you write a piece.

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» RE: Sex addiction is real.... Posted by: talkville
Oh, hell
Posted by: willymack on Dec 1, 2007 7:56 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Go on and have your fun. Just don't have BJs in your office or in men's rooms. They may not be career-enhancing.

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In a natural, unstressed state, you would be having sex every day
Posted by: Bobsays on Dec 1, 2007 8:11 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I know: I have had many times in my life where I have been on an extended chilled experience on some island somewhere, or just hanging out in Europe. And yeah, when you are happy and materially sorted out, you naturally have sex everyday. We are made to do this.

It is only stressed out people who moan all the time about not getting enough, or getting so stressed or bottled up, they fuck the first person they see in a bar. In fact, it is pretty well guaranteed you can steam the undies off any hotty by just subjecting her to a lot of work pressure and then give her a quick release (trip to a conference or something): oh yeah, then watch the party!

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distraction politics
Posted by: davidg on Dec 1, 2007 9:41 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Such nonsense...sex addiction. Unnecessary imperial wars, global, disease, ignorance, lunatic fundamentalism etc etc...and now the new fear of our sexual organs as enemy. How post-Eden. Middle-brow commentators usually spin garabage...Barbara Walters, Oprah et al. This will be cranked up to the ridiculous. Sex with taboo, psychiatrically. Clever. Glad we have this site. But really folks, what are we going to be asked to be paranoid about in this Culture of Fear next? Let's get serious, folks. What about Bush and Cheney? They are real.

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» You're so right! Posted by: timemachinist
Knows Nothing of Which She Speaks
Posted by: sjamaanka on Dec 1, 2007 9:47 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Sad, naive commentary.
Clearly this person has never had her life "touched" by the destructive energy of a sex addict. Mine was ripped apart by a man I trusted completely, ten years ago. I'm still not fully recuperated.
He couldn't help himself; there was never, ever enough "love".
This sort of article will encourage those addicted and in denial to continue their destructive behavior, potentially injuring more people as a result.
Shame on you. Write about something else that won't hurt people.

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Glad to be in Thailand....
Posted by: garyinthailand on Dec 1, 2007 10:17 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
....where attitudes are wholly different. I recently had occasion to observe a sex ed class for 10-14 year olds. Nothing at all like what I experienced in US. More like "here's all the fun things you can do with your newly-functional equipment and what you can do to avoid problems", all presented with a sense of casual good humor, Even having been here a few years, it was an eye opener.

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» RE: Glad to be in Thailand.... Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: Glad to be in Thailand.... Posted by: garyinthailand
» RE: Glad to be in Thailand.... Posted by: Richard House
"Sex Addiction" is Largely a Moralistic Judgement
Posted by: Libertine on Dec 1, 2007 11:02 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am openly promiscuous. I've got a high libido and I enjoy casual sex of all kinds: one-night stands, friends with benefits, etc. I'm not the slightest bit monogamous, nor do I have any desire to be. I have lived this way my entire adult life and intend to keep doing so as long as I'm able to do the deed. To facilitate how I've chosen to live, I remain legally unmarried. I am open and honest about who and what I am; all prospective lovers know that I will never agree to sexual exclusivity.

I am what I am without excuse or apology. Though my life wouldn't work for many people; it's right for me and that's all that matters. I've chosen how I live, eyes wide open, and I take responsibility for my life. I take precautions and use safer sex techniques and have never had an STD.

But I'm not a sex addict -- I'm a libertine. I savor sex and sensuality like a gourmet savors food. In the same way that a gourmet isn't the same thing as a glutton, a libertine isn't the same thing as a sex addict.

To read more about the difference between a libertine and a sex addict, read my blog entry:

Libertine's Blog

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» Not really Posted by: LeeAnnG
» You Assume Too Much Posted by: Libertine
» RE: You Assume Too Much Posted by: hackbut
phony counselors
Posted by: luzmejor on Dec 1, 2007 11:44 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Those advisers who keep people concentrating on sexuality only for an entire 6 weeks are definitely not going to be helpful. But the price of the unnecessary "treatment" gives us a clue as to what they are really about.

It's the money and the aura of respectable reliability they are after.

A Pox on all their houses!

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I've seen sex addiction first hand
Posted by: LeeAnnG on Dec 1, 2007 4:21 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
My ex-husband really was a sex addict. Here is a list of his symptoms:

When we first got married, he wanted to have sex at least 3 times a day.

He said that he was worried (and was not joking) that when he got old he'd be satisfied with once a day.

He wanted an open marriage so he could also have sex with other women. It was the 70s, so I agreed, and he did. He also wanted to swap. Did that too.

We were married for 25 years (yes, I know, I was really dumb!!) and we AVERAGED sex at least once a day. If we missed a day, he'd insist on twice another day to keep the average.

After I put a stop to the open marriage, he had affairs that he hid from me.

He was addicted also to XXX movies. But he was a teacher, so he made me go into the movie rental to get the movies. If I didn't want to, he'd sulk all night.

He was constantly hassling me about my weight, no matter how I looked because he wanted me to be so beautiful other men would be jealous of him.

It didn't matter if I was sick - or how sick - he wanted me to "perform" for him every night. If I was really, truly sick and just couldn't, he'd masturbate so I would be aware of it.

He was convinced that everything in life is about sex, no matter how obscured it might seem. So everything was translated into a sexual issue.

I couldn't touch him without instant arousal and his immediately wanting to have sex.

I finally got tired of his affairs and demands, so I divorced him. But from this list, it's easy to see that sex addiction is not really about sex. In spite of his insistence that life is all about sex, his life was all about control. The constant sex was only a part of it, but it's way too much to go into here. Suffice to say that over a long period of time I got brainwashed by him, and it was amazing that I managed to get away.

Fortunately for me, not long after I broke up with my ex, I met my new husband who is quite unbelievably wonderful, undemanding, kind, considerate, and supportive. He balances me. We've been married 15 years with no affairs, abuse, or weirdness.

There is most certainly such a thing as sex addiction, but it's probably not usually due to a love of sex, but because sex is not actually satisfying whatever need the addict has.

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» Thanks for the comment Posted by: LeeAnnG
» so your a sex addict addict? Posted by: Eat Politicians
» Most Married Women....... Posted by: gellero
Am I A Sex Addict?
Posted by: dumdumboy on Dec 1, 2007 5:03 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
No. I'm not that lucky...

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Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by: WhuThe?!? on Dec 2, 2007 12:06 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Sex Addict?!?
We're all sex addicts! We always want more, just like crack (no pun intended!).
It's just that the religious right, who feel sex is wrong, wants more exposure so people can feel guilty about their sexuality, and they can further control them. That is surely why that term was invented. What assholes!

Screw them! I say have more sex just to spite the crabby, unfulfilled and unhappy fools!

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WTF???
Posted by: The Populist on Dec 2, 2007 2:45 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
why are you guys always talking about sex on this site???? i thought this was about being a progressive???

people that don't know what we are about and come to this site and see all the "sex" articles are going to have the preconceptions reinforced??

"a bunch a damn hippie queers and sluts, smokin' dope and talkin' about fuckin' all the time"

and you know that's how the red staters think!!!!

i am a feminist, socialist, progressive, blue stater from hell...but sex only comes up with me in private conversations.

please clean it up!!

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» RE: Thank You Posted by: The Populist
» You're Welcome Posted by: Libertine
» RE: WTF??? Posted by: The Populist
I'm an animal
Posted by: PaulK on Dec 2, 2007 8:44 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am a sex addict. It has been 15 hours since I last had sex with myself. I fantasize every night. I have no intention of quitting. My parents were sex addicts too, they couldn't stop, and so were my grandparents.

That said, I'm a pretty moral guy, all things considered. No extramarital affairs. No porn, other than a few network evening TV shows which really edge toward being soft-core pornographic shows these days, oh, and half-dressed cheerleaders on TV football.

But, I am an animal. God said be fruitful and multiply. Evolution said succeed or die out. Hey, we almost succeeded when I was younger.

What counts is how we control and channel our overwhelming feelings and urges.

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I feel the same way about booze
Posted by: Erik1968 on Dec 2, 2007 10:33 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I can stop whenever I want.

Our intrepid author seems to be ignoring exactly what makes an addiction an addiction. To wit, the compulsiveness.

There's nothing that makes me laugh harder than complaints about America's sexual repression. Except maybe conservative complaints about overrregulation and high taxes. Really? In 2007? You're sexually repressed??

Sex is the exact center of everyone's life in 2007. Parents are convinced that any adult who expresses an interest in their children wants to have sex with them. Children are warned that "predators" are chasing them around the internet. Marriages MUST contain wonderful sex at all times, or there's a problem. And if the sex is bad, it's time to leave.

Sex enslaves us all. Viagra has made it a life sentence. Sex is, incredibly ALL there is. the spirit cannot be truly develop without sex. Life is empty without sex. What is a reationship without sex? Nothing.

We get boob jobs and botox, buy levitra and butterfly chairs, and still, we haven't quite gotten it down.

Foucault is rolling in his grave. Sex is nice but it isn't EVERYTHING!

With all due respect, Leahy's quote, "Sex is front and center in our world today...What you feed grows and what you starve dies" is completely true.

I like to listen to the radio in the morning, but morning drive time radio is ll sex all the time. Its the same in the afternoon. Strippers, boob jobs, on and on. Watch afternoon TV. Watch soap Operas. Watch Oprah. Watch prime tim TV. Watch MTV.

Seruiously, WHERE is there a break from sex?? Where is it repressed??

It's 2007. I'm looking at porn as I write this. It's everywhere all the time ad infinitum. I'm sure we can stop anytime we want. Right?

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casualpal dot com?
Posted by: casualbaby on Dec 2, 2007 11:43 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'd say maybe I am one. I like casual sex very much, those NSA fun make me wild and exciting, I've never be that hot. A friend introduced me a site www.casualpal.com to me, I joined and found great fun there.

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just a new line of work
Posted by: jiclemens on Dec 3, 2007 10:38 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think the folks who were trying so hard and unsuccessfully to "cure" homosexuals are now just looking for a new gig. This was a great article. It should help tone down some of the enormous hysteria this country emits over sex and other victemless "crimes."

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False Premise Prevents True Healing
Posted by: LeaderofMen on Dec 3, 2007 4:27 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Sex is front and center in our world today," Leahy said. "What you feed grows and what you starve dies."

Sorry, false premise.

That's called suppression.

You either get the psychological help you need or you wait for the hormones to finally stop flowing. But if you 'starve' your obsession you become a monster.

Just ask a pedophile priest.

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Let's Talk About Sex
Posted by: penobscotdziekuje@yahoo.com on Dec 3, 2007 4:47 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Ah, yes. The three-letter word that often gets misunderstood or causes people to freak out when it's on our minds or even when we "have" it.
This act, some "sexperts" say, is essential to our growth; and when we don't get it we supposedly become bitter and uptight and to have this energy "released", we need to have sex.
There's "good" and "bad" sex and we all know when it's painful and shameful, ecstacy and fulfilling. I've been on both sides of that. But how can we tell if someone's a "sex addict"? By scientific methods? By research? Just because someone does it more than the next person? It's not as easy to reveal this condition as someone who's addicted to an illegal substance. There has to be specific and profound proof. I don't know. And will scientific proof make it an addiction?
I'm no expert, either, but just make sure we do it safely.

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Sex addict criteria/ Sex Addicts Anonymous
Posted by: Camilla Cracchiolo on Dec 3, 2007 8:10 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I've known some people in Sex Addicts Anonymous and their working definition seemed to be: if your sexual behavior is getting you in trouble and screwing up your life and you still can't stop even with serious consequences, that's addiction.

Some people had real serious problems: guys who masturbated in front of kids, people who lost marriage after marriage but couldn't stop having affairs, people who had dangerous sex (unprotected sex, S&M with strangers) & still didn't use rubbers, etc.

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To what EXTENT are you a sex addict should be the question!
Posted by: Landbaron on Dec 3, 2007 10:13 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Ted Bundy, BTK, John Wayne Gacey, etc., now these people were major league sex addicts willing to play the most dangerous game in the world for it. Then there's other people who won't bother with it unless there's nothing else to do....But I don't thing there's many who would give it up completely even for $10 million.

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Graywolf
Posted by: graywolf83 on Dec 6, 2007 5:45 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If having a robust sexual appetite, welcoming sexual experimentation, and wishing to indulsge it at every opportunity, then I'm a sex addict and very pleased to be one. Sex is natural, fun, relaxing, extremely gratifying, and harms no one but the psyches of people who can't really enjoy sex.

Viva sex addiction. Would that we were a nation of sex addicts. We wouldn't have time for killing and abusing others because of own warped views of human sexuality.

Jbo

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» RE: Graywolf Posted by: Landbaron
hackbut
Posted by: hackbut on Dec 8, 2007 9:10 PM   
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It might have been well for the author to comment on the possibility that being an ACOA can have an effect on some so-called sex addicts. The term is an acronym for "adult child of an alcoholic", which describes the classic case, but the condition probably arises from all kinds of childhood trauma, including possibly divorce, illegitimacy, parental death, stepparent conflict, etc. In a nutshell it is characterized by the strong desire for the hug and for people generally to love you, and therefore can be somewhat debilitating. For instance some other person might hug you and you think you're in love with them (especially if you're young) and the result might be decades of an unhappy marriage, so it is an concept which is well to be familiar with if there are young people in your life who are potential ACOA's. For whatever it's worth and from afar, I suspect that, given Bill Clinton's childhood, he is an ACOA and that one of the reasons he connects so well with people is that on some level they really do think he wants their love, and so they give it. High-achieving ACOA's still keep a certain sense of vulnerability and this can add to their attraciveness. If one marries one and there is love, they will love you doggedly but given the other psychological aspects it still might be kind of a wild ride.

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As one feminist puts it...
Posted by: Landbaron on Dec 9, 2007 2:00 PM   
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it's very simple...
When women want to have sex, it's fabulous and empowering and there can never be too much. When men want to have sex, it's threatening and terrifying and gross and disgusting and OHMIGOD-OHMIGOD-RAAAAAAAAPE!

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Good addictions, bad addictions
Posted by: luckypuck on Dec 9, 2007 5:05 PM   
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Well, now, there are good addictions and bad addictions. My good ones are I'm addicted to porn, to chocolate and Stephanie Plum novels. My bad ones are . . . Gosh, I don't seem to have any.

But I love good cinema because I find it entertaining and stimulating. But I love good porn because I find it entertaining and stimulating. I've been married to the same woman for 42 years and never cheated in real time, real life, ever. Does my addiction control me? Sometimes. When I let it.

"If I'm looking at pictures of naked women, my life is not right with God." So, uh, what? I have to wait to go to heaven to see naked women to be okay with God? Are we gonna have to wear clothes in heaven? Whatever for? Is is cold up there? Is there a fashion trend to follow? Will I know what's a la mode? (Not ice cream, stupid). Will God send me to hell if I don't accessorize well?

On the other hand, if there's no naked women in heaven, then I ain't goin'.

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Be an atheist and have fun
Posted by: donnee on Dec 18, 2007 8:25 AM   
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What if there is no heaven,
and the bible is a big fat lie.
We are all gonna die
may as well enjoy it all now.

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