COMMENTS: 40
The Holiday's Shopping Season Can't Stop the Coming 'Severe Recession'
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It was, in the words of Reverend Billy of the Church of Stop Shopping, a "shop-apocalypse." His crusade against out-of-control consumption is pictured in the new film "What Would Jesus Buy?" opening at some theaters in L.A. and San Francisco.
This highly relevant film was not on TV, of course, because our media is deeply complicit in promoting and encouraging mindless consumerism through newspapers, commercials and newscasts. This is a well-practiced formula mirroring TV's promotion of the war in Iraq, as the line between selling and telling disappears. Media outlets are amply rewarded with endless ad revenues hyping all the discounted goodies you can get, with the Boston Globe packing no less than 43 advertising-sales supplements (down from 47 a year ago) into a paper that had wall-to-wall Macys ads, including some offering $10 coupons to bribe you the stores. Marketing is what the media does best.
The only negative note was the fear among some that toys might be unsafe because of lead or other dangers. Some 26 million toys have been recalled this year, a sign that the regulators were asleep on this front in the economic wars as they were on Wall Street. The real danger may not be lead in the toys but another type of lead in our heads that leads to denial on the part of millions that we can go on with addictive, well-cultivated, crazed consumption habits.
Bill Bowles writes about this on his CNI blog:
"The problem is that many of us have been force-fed with a diet of nothing but passive, uncritical consumptionism; indeed, we are addicted to the stuff; breaking such powerful habits is what this is all about; it's about getting people to think critically again about what's going on and why and what, if anything, we can do about it."
Bowles also ties this cultural affliction sometimes known as affluenza back to our dependence on a media system that won't really allow other voices to be heard:
"It would be an understatement to say that the world has changed almost beyond recognition in the past two decades. We appear to have re-entered the age of the dinosaur, gigantic creatures stomping across the planet, 'guided' by pea-sized brains. So ... we have increasing concentrations of powerful media -- media that is actually an entire raft of processes critical to the survival of capitalism -- either in the hands of vast corporations or the state (which in any case is now openly in bed with the big corporations) ..."
Were most media outlets connecting any dots between the annual shopathon and the "severe recession" that many economists are forecasting? Were there any warnings to the public to save their rapidly inflating money for the expected hard times? Was there any explanation of how prices have sharply risen and, thus, the discounts -- often "teaser" rates just like the ones offered subprime loan victims -- are really not all they are cracked up to be?
No way.
What about the larger trends? Yes, there has been reporting on how bad things are, but this reality was largely not depicted in the "shop now, be happy" coverage. The Globe did run a story in the B section where the business news is buried. At the very end of the AP report (not theirs), you read this:
"Last year, retailers had a good start during the Thanksgiving weekend, but many stores struggled in December, and a shopping surge just before and after Christmas wasn't enough to make up for lost sales.
This year, analysts expect sales gains to be the weakest in five years. Washington-based National Retail Federation predicted that total holiday sales will be up 4 percent for the combined November and December period, the slowest growth since a 1.3 percent rise in 2002.
Holiday sales rose 4.6 percent in 2006, and growth has averaged 4.8 percent over the last decade."Where were the stories alerting us to this coming calamity on the front pages? They weren't there. It is not in their interest to carry them, clearly a big no-no. It gets worse. MTV pointedly rejected an ad from the Cultural Jammers Network urging a "Buy Nothing Day." The network complained, "The station that markets itself as the voice of hip youth has censored the burping pig."
But why? "Their advertising standards representative, Elisa Billis, said that "the spot goes further than we are willing to accept on our channels." Too radical for MTV, which routinely carries military recruiting ads with no qualms.
The Globe did carry a cartoon lampooning local sports mania in a town with winning teams. In its last panel, set in a mortgage office, a fan is being told he will be able to pay off his Red Sox/Celtics/Patriots tickets in just a few decades.
Many of the shoppers this season are charging it even though all the credit card companies have jacked up rates, driving the real cost of shopping higher, and even though credit balances are at an all-time high. The companies are just waiting for them. The day after Christmas, VISA will report on how much business was done. In years past, they called it "disappointing."
And then in January, the returns will start as the bills come due. Experts -- including former Treasury Secretary Larry Summers -- are warning that the credit-card system may be the next to fall.
Writes economist Robert Samuelson:
"The spectre of the subprime debacle is that it's just a start. Huge amounts of auto loans, credit-card debt, commercial mortgages and equipment leases have also been securitized. If similar problems emerged, it would shake confidence in the securitization model and, by magnifying investors' losses, threaten to turn the credit crunch from a slogan into a reality. A broader crisis, though a long shot, can't be excluded."Thanksgiving this year fell on the anniversary of the John F. Kennedy assassination. The New York Times predictably marked the event with one more op-ed article -- in a long line -- assuring us that there was no conspiracy. (Even as 80 percent of the public continues to believe that Lee Harvey Oswald did not act alone.)
While they discredit suggestions of a past conspiracy, they seem to be ignoring a current one. That involves the steady decline of our economy -- thanks to illegal practices through white-collar predatory lenders backed by our biggest banks and hedge funds, as well as the inability of regulators to regulate and of a complicit media to blow the whistle -- which has caused a multibillion-dollar economic crime that is still in progress. It has already defrauded millions of investors and homeowners, and the squeeze will only get worse.
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Comments are closed-
Posted by: NoPCZone on Nov 24, 2007 2:20 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When the tech bubble burst with 9-11 hard on it's heels, easy credit and insane tax cuts greased the wheels. GM and others started handing out 0% car loans to put ever more people in their gas guzzling 2 ton SUVs. The Realtors and bankers, having run out of good credit risks, started heavily pimping home loans for way more house than some could reasonably afford- some for interest only on the front-end. Mortgage companies advertised second mortgages to everyone with a pulse and a maxxed out credit card.
In some corners they call that eating your seed corn.
We face a nasty recession, tightening credit from a Fed with little margin to cut, massive personal debt, a titanic trade imbalance, a declining dollar, huge federal deficits made worse by programmed tax cuts for the wealthiest, a home mortgage crisis, accelerating inflation and the lowest savings rate in the developed world. Jesus, what a mess.
With a government so deeply in hock and little financial wiggle room, the remnants of our social safety net will be under massive pressure as the shock-wave passes through our economy and ripples back like a stone dropped in a pond. Millions of working class NeoCons, sold out by the very people they elected, will find themselves in a mess as they helped disassemble the very social safety net they will soon need.
The borrow and spend Ponzi Scheme of the NeoCons is a house of cards. They have milked the money from the system and are standing back, waiting for the cards to fall like bricks on those they duped with 'Compassionate Conservatism'. More like Crony Capitalism run amok.
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» RE: The Stats Always Lag
Posted by: VannaLaRoche
» RE: The Stats Always Lag
Posted by: VZEQICVA
Comments are closed-
Posted by: rcase on Nov 24, 2007 5:00 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» If you don't actually own any of your "possessions," you're bound to feel insecure
Posted by: Beck
» RE: On Consumerism
Posted by: blondesprite
» RE: On Consumerism
Posted by: robchapman
» RE: On Consumerism....................Ah!...the good ol' days....
Posted by: peridot
» On debt: how funny to hear liberals talk about spending restraint.
Posted by: aka_bozo
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Bobsays on Nov 24, 2007 5:58 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Anybody with an ear to the ground holds these facts to be immutable: double-bubble: we are in a bubble economy and it is now unwinding; the economy hit recession awhile ago, just nobody is talking about it; inflation has gone crazy; interest rates for loans are going nuts; illegal migrants reduce wage pressure.
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» Bob: you need to be careful about what "reduces wages".
Posted by: aka_bozo
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Posted by: robchapman on Nov 24, 2007 7:12 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Two salient issues stand out that Schechter omitted from his piece.
First, 60% of consumer spending is for services. A slowdown in the sale of services will put people out of work.Most goods in US markets are imported, a slow down in the sales of goods is unlikely to slow the American economy. So by observing the bright wrapped holiday packages, Schechter missed what might be hidden in plain sight.
Second- the US banking system may be running out of money. This is the danger of the sub prime mortgage crisis- if too many major financial institutions lose too much money, they won't be able to make loans and the consumer won't be able to buy.
Interestingly, the drop in the dollar may well be mechanism we can use to avoid recession. Even if US consumers buy less goods, they will spend more money for it. With the growth of US imports, it is conceivable that the trade deficit will weaken and that sales to US consumers may well become more profitable. This would motivate foreign manufacturers to sell to us.
If the Chinese are motivated to continue to sell here, and domestic credit tightens, they will also have the motivation to use their dollar reserves to extend credit to US consumers.
If the falling dollar reduces the value of the Chinese' massive dollar reserves, they might be motivated to stop hoarding them and to begin investing them more aggressively in domestic US ventures, where they will receive the best returns.
IF... China starts sending greenbacks back to the US in massive amounts, this could provide an infusion of liquidity when it is needed and keep the economy going until another strategy for growth is formulated.
There are clear geo-political dangers in this scenario, but compared to the dangers inherent in an economic crash, the geo-political dangers seem tolerable.
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» RE: Schechter missed the point
Posted by: babaloo
» Most goods may be imported but retail is a big part of the US economy. Slow is bad for them and us.
Posted by: yellow
» Any Country That Continually Debases Its Currency Ends in Economic Collapse
Posted by: sofla100
Comments are closed-
Posted by: PROFPETE on Nov 24, 2007 7:34 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Bagnolosprophetics.blogspot.com
On 10/29/2006 titled:
BENONOMY, SALANOMY, ITS REALLY THE THE ECONOMY
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Posted by: nexusandroidsix on Nov 24, 2007 7:50 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"I'm really looking for the bargains this year because I'm losing my job; they're moving our plant to Mexico after the first of the year, so I have to be careful," said Tina Dillow of New Richmond, Ohio, who camped out at a Best Buy store near Cincinnati at 3 a.m. because of a great deal on a laptop.
Not that she has to save her money, just that she has to be careful.
article
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» RE: Consumer, but not smart money manager
Posted by: babaloo
» RE: Consumer, but not smart money manager
Posted by: VannaLaRoche
» RE: I am not blaming the consumer, but look at this...
Posted by: VZEQICVA
Comments are closed-
Posted by: madmac10 on Nov 24, 2007 11:01 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Take a vow to undertake a spending fast next year. Stay home with family--ask the kiddies what they are doing in school. Volunteer at a soup kitchen or homeless shelter. (I did this:) Gather all your old stuff for a POTLATCH.
In ancient indigenous societies, people celebrated Thanksgiving by GIVING away their most valued possession. Well, not to take it that far, I did pull together all of my old clothes and sundries, to take to the local Thrift Store. So, instead of buying something, I gave away something. It felt super-wonderful!
Spread the word--replace Black Friday with the POTLATCH.
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Posted by: sofla100 on Nov 24, 2007 1:25 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» The weak dollar really is a consequence of the Current Account Deficit which is nearing $1 trillion
Posted by: yellow
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Posted by: CV on Nov 24, 2007 1:51 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: The Corporatocracy Hedged Its Bets!
Posted by: Logic's Edge
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Posted by: buzzsaw on Nov 24, 2007 3:43 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The only way to "save" rapidly inflating money is to exchange it for something with intrinsic and enduring value fast, while you can still get something for it. Gold comes to mind, (and has indeed been soaring) but has the problems of physically securing it against thieves and confiscation (remember 1933), and the burden of proving that it is indeed gold of claimed purity when you go to exchange it for something you need. Also, if the stuff really hits the fan, you can't eat gold.
We are set up for the perfect storm, inflation wise. However, the fact that so many of us are head over heels in debt may be our salvation. To the extent that this debt is of fixed interest rate, "they that run things" cannot allow inflation, as this would let debtors off the hook. But "they" might not be able to control this as much as they would like, due to the Chinese holding so much US public debt, and OPEC seriously talking about trading oil in Euros. (Saddam Hussein was talking Euro until we invaded--there's the real weapon of mass destruction, of the value of the dollar, that is.) Once "they" get their wealth out of dollars and in to something else, they will throw the dollar to the wolves. Expecting inflation to exceed my interest rate, I have quit prepaying my mortgage, preferring to pay the fixed monthly dollar amount I owe with increasingly worthless pieces of paper. (Now to convert these savings into items that hold their value and don't deteriorate, are always needed, and preferably, can serve as a medium of exchange, if the going gets really bad.)
In the event of a massive recession, possibly due to attempts to control inflation (raising interest rates with credit already tight), huge numbers of unemployed, defaulting debtors may very well take their creditors down with them. "They" can't let this happen either. Dumping tons of repossessed goods on the market destroys their value.
Economic prophecies tend to be self-fulfilling since the logical preparations tend to create the predicted conditions. For instance, if enough people think they are about to lose their job, they will cut back on discretionary spending to save money to pay bills and buy only absolute necessities. The people who make their living off of this discretionary spending, will perceive the threat to their own jobs, and will cut back accordingly. Soon enough, these job losses will actually materialize, perpetuating and intensifying the cycle.
If people think the dollar will be worthless next week, they will spend them now before prices go up. If enough people do this it will dump too many dollars into the market chasing too few goods and services. This is the very definition of inflation and prices will rise. The credible prediction of an economic condition tends to cause that very condition.
buzzsaw-who wonders why the economic news is always so mixed :)
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Posted by: lrrysgl on Nov 24, 2007 9:14 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
At a time when the top 1% of U.S. citizens owns more wealth than the bottom 95%, Bush cut the taxes of the wealthiest 1% while vast numbers of the bottom 95% live paycheck-
to-paycheck and owe enormous credit card debts.
Whether Democrat or Republican, whether Gore or Bush, the result is the same: the U.S. is damn close to becoming a Third World nation. Perhaps if more poor people in Honduras, the Philippines, India or other Third World countries had credit cards they, too -- like so many heavily indebted Americans -- would delude themselves that they were "well-off".
The fact is that the tax rate for the wealthiest Americans was 88% in the two decades following World War II, a time when the U.S. economy was booming. Working-class and middle-class Americans saved more and charged less then, too.
What follows are some disturbing facts (from www.inequality.org) about just how far from a fair economy we've come, notwithstanding the joint Dem-GOP deceitful propaganda that claims most Americans are "better-off" nowadays:
* Middle-class families enjoyed 2.8 percent of the stock market gains between 1989 and 1998, but accounted for 38.8 percent of the increase in household debt. (Economic Policy Institute)
* 60 percent of U.S. workers say that if they were laid off, their savings are sufficient to maintain their current standard of living for
a few months or less. Only 29 percent said they are able to save for the future. 40 percent say they earn enough to be comfortable, but not to save, while 27 percent said they earn only enough to get by, and 3 percent said they are unable to pay their bills. (Fleet Bank)
* 5.4 million Americans live in substandard housing or spend more than half their income on rent. (Fortune, 9/4/00)
* In 1998, the average American worker's inflation-adjusted weekly wages were 12 percent below what they had been in 1973. (Collins,Leondar-Wright and Sklar, Shifting Fortunes)
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» Third world countrys don't have overflowing U-Stor-it places,...
Posted by: aka_bozo
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Posted by: CommonDreamer on Nov 24, 2007 10:53 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I grew up in the best economy of all( born in 1958) when taxes were sky high on the rich and we all were being elevated financially (because you can't steal from your customers - that is, the poor and middle class - and not have repercussions). The Republicans haven't learned that yet...but they will. Of course the rich will not get hurt in any recession...but their consuming crowds will disappear as mortgages consume more and more of their income, as they file bankruptcy, as their credit cards charge them obscene rates.
In that 1960's era, people were advised to save, and to pay off their mortgages, and credit was a thing to handle wisely and sparingly. I was never deprived, but don't remember going shopping as sport - in fact, we almost never went shopping and we were not poor. And we were extremely happy as were most families. What has happened to America? We don't spend non-competitive time with each other, and family values are actually completely unsupported by this administration (read: highest housing prices ever, cutting off affordable housing, layoffs, winner take all mentality, wage depression, etc.).
And finally the most obscene thing of all - the President advising everyone to "just go shopping" when the occupation (not a war) in Iraq was started - but no talk of shared sacrifice or any sacrifice from those of us who remain here.
Do you really want to support this crony regime by shopping? While some of you are losing your houses, hedge fund managers are preparing to receive their largest bonuses yet - collectively a billion or so. So far, they will not be punished for their criminal acts.
Think about it. Stop watching Paris Hilton and buying iPods and overpaying for movies and sports tickets and think about what is being done to you. More than that, stop the star worship and start admiring yourselves and your families - don't make someone else more important than you (as in someone thinking about paying for Miley Cyrus tickets instead of paying their mortgage??!!) - a true story - where are the adults? So many are pandering to the stars and sports as if they had no other lives - and worse, having their kids do it. Stop drinking the star worship koolaid and get your own lives in order and don't let this regime bring you down by seducing you into shopping for things - they won't comfort your soul and your children will be empty minded.
If we don't get a populist candidate in office this time, the only sure thing is that American society will just keep heading for the gutter.
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» RE: Yes, taxes were high, regulations were tough, and unions were strong
Posted by: CommonDreamer
» Life, OTC.
Posted by: Ignatz deFyre
» What IS the PoInT (BeCk) of complaining incessantly about ...
Posted by: aka_bozo
» RE: What IS the PoInT (BeCk) of complaining incessantly about ...
Posted by: Ignatz deFyre
Comments are closed-
Posted by: aka_bozo on Nov 26, 2007 10:33 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
New restaurants stop opening every week.
Trips to Vegas decline.
The cruise industry starts discounting (haven’t heard anything about this yet).
Airline fares come down (it cost me $2300 for tickets to New Zealand in January – seating is limited).
Right now, there’s no sign of a recession. At least amongst the people who would still classify themselves as "middle-class" and especially amongst the people that politically matter.
As has been pointed out on this site many times, government statistics are no longer reliable. However, this unreliable data is used to fantasize about “the coming recession”. (Note, I’m as negative as anybody, but I’m hoping for a BIG recession in order to “punish” the non-savers. It won’t happen, but we all have our fantasies). These same bogus government statistics also miss, however, the “hidden off-the-books economy”. There is lots of economic activity that’s “off the books” (if you know a “small business owner”, ask them what percentage of their take is “cash” – if they’ll tell you.)
ALSO pointed out on this site is that the US is stratifying into economic layers; which have almost no contact with each other. When (if) there is a big recession, the real question is how far UP the food chain the effect will be. It’s safe to assume the bottom 50% will be affected, but they own nothing now and count for nothing politically, so what effect will their recession have on “the political worthy class”? The top 10% will be safe - they always are - and this group owns almost everything, so what do these people care about a recession? The only question then, is what will be the effect on the remaining 40% of the peasants; AND what will their political handlers be able to make of it.
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» RE: You'll know the recession is real when:
Posted by: makeadifference
» The size of the US will delay the inevitable.
Posted by: aka_bozo
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Posted by: eosrk on Nov 26, 2007 4:20 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In other words, I'm reycling my own eletric
sounds wierd, but a solar-calculator does it all the time, so why not a large solar panel system.
there's no such thing as overeffiency, but not enough of it!
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Posted by: riotoustanpdx on Dec 2, 2007 1:50 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The water is gone, and crops will not grow. The Environment is destroyed, and we are just now paying attention to what has been happening for the last fifty years.
Stop, and learn how to grow your own food. It will mean finding the water and land, and it won't be easy, but if you learn the steps you will have something to pass on to your kids.
Thomas A. Nagy
Global Cooling Initiative
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Posted by: NoPCZone on Nov 24, 2007 2:20 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When the tech bubble burst with 9-11 hard on it's heels, easy credit and insane tax cuts greased the wheels. GM and others started handing out 0% car loans to put ever more people in their gas guzzling 2 ton SUVs. The Realtors and bankers, having run out of good credit risks, started heavily pimping home loans for way more house than some could reasonably afford- some for interest only on the front-end. Mortgage companies advertised second mortgages to everyone with a pulse and a maxxed out credit card.
In some corners they call that eating your seed corn.
We face a nasty recession, tightening credit from a Fed with little margin to cut, massive personal debt, a titanic trade imbalance, a declining dollar, huge federal deficits made worse by programmed tax cuts for the wealthiest, a home mortgage crisis, accelerating inflation and the lowest savings rate in the developed world. Jesus, what a mess.
With a government so deeply in hock and little financial wiggle room, the remnants of our social safety net will be under massive pressure as the shock-wave passes through our economy and ripples back like a stone dropped in a pond. Millions of working class NeoCons, sold out by the very people they elected, will find themselves in a mess as they helped disassemble the very social safety net they will soon need.
The borrow and spend Ponzi Scheme of the NeoCons is a house of cards. They have milked the money from the system and are standing back, waiting for the cards to fall like bricks on those they duped with 'Compassionate Conservatism'. More like Crony Capitalism run amok.
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» RE: The Stats Always Lag
Posted by: VannaLaRoche
» RE: The Stats Always Lag
Posted by: VZEQICVA
Comments are closed-
Posted by: rcase on Nov 24, 2007 5:00 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» If you don't actually own any of your "possessions," you're bound to feel insecure
Posted by: Beck
» RE: On Consumerism
Posted by: blondesprite
» RE: On Consumerism
Posted by: robchapman
» RE: On Consumerism....................Ah!...the good ol' days....
Posted by: peridot
» On debt: how funny to hear liberals talk about spending restraint.
Posted by: aka_bozo
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Bobsays on Nov 24, 2007 5:58 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Anybody with an ear to the ground holds these facts to be immutable: double-bubble: we are in a bubble economy and it is now unwinding; the economy hit recession awhile ago, just nobody is talking about it; inflation has gone crazy; interest rates for loans are going nuts; illegal migrants reduce wage pressure.
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» Bob: you need to be careful about what "reduces wages".
Posted by: aka_bozo
Comments are closed-
Posted by: robchapman on Nov 24, 2007 7:12 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Two salient issues stand out that Schechter omitted from his piece.
First, 60% of consumer spending is for services. A slowdown in the sale of services will put people out of work.Most goods in US markets are imported, a slow down in the sales of goods is unlikely to slow the American economy. So by observing the bright wrapped holiday packages, Schechter missed what might be hidden in plain sight.
Second- the US banking system may be running out of money. This is the danger of the sub prime mortgage crisis- if too many major financial institutions lose too much money, they won't be able to make loans and the consumer won't be able to buy.
Interestingly, the drop in the dollar may well be mechanism we can use to avoid recession. Even if US consumers buy less goods, they will spend more money for it. With the growth of US imports, it is conceivable that the trade deficit will weaken and that sales to US consumers may well become more profitable. This would motivate foreign manufacturers to sell to us.
If the Chinese are motivated to continue to sell here, and domestic credit tightens, they will also have the motivation to use their dollar reserves to extend credit to US consumers.
If the falling dollar reduces the value of the Chinese' massive dollar reserves, they might be motivated to stop hoarding them and to begin investing them more aggressively in domestic US ventures, where they will receive the best returns.
IF... China starts sending greenbacks back to the US in massive amounts, this could provide an infusion of liquidity when it is needed and keep the economy going until another strategy for growth is formulated.
There are clear geo-political dangers in this scenario, but compared to the dangers inherent in an economic crash, the geo-political dangers seem tolerable.
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» RE: Schechter missed the point
Posted by: babaloo
» Most goods may be imported but retail is a big part of the US economy. Slow is bad for them and us.
Posted by: yellow
» Any Country That Continually Debases Its Currency Ends in Economic Collapse
Posted by: sofla100
Comments are closed-
Posted by: PROFPETE on Nov 24, 2007 7:34 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Bagnolosprophetics.blogspot.com
On 10/29/2006 titled:
BENONOMY, SALANOMY, ITS REALLY THE THE ECONOMY
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Comments are closed-
Posted by: nexusandroidsix on Nov 24, 2007 7:50 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"I'm really looking for the bargains this year because I'm losing my job; they're moving our plant to Mexico after the first of the year, so I have to be careful," said Tina Dillow of New Richmond, Ohio, who camped out at a Best Buy store near Cincinnati at 3 a.m. because of a great deal on a laptop.
Not that she has to save her money, just that she has to be careful.
article
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» RE: Consumer, but not smart money manager
Posted by: babaloo
» RE: Consumer, but not smart money manager
Posted by: VannaLaRoche
» RE: I am not blaming the consumer, but look at this...
Posted by: VZEQICVA
Comments are closed-
Posted by: madmac10 on Nov 24, 2007 11:01 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Take a vow to undertake a spending fast next year. Stay home with family--ask the kiddies what they are doing in school. Volunteer at a soup kitchen or homeless shelter. (I did this:) Gather all your old stuff for a POTLATCH.
In ancient indigenous societies, people celebrated Thanksgiving by GIVING away their most valued possession. Well, not to take it that far, I did pull together all of my old clothes and sundries, to take to the local Thrift Store. So, instead of buying something, I gave away something. It felt super-wonderful!
Spread the word--replace Black Friday with the POTLATCH.
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Posted by: sofla100 on Nov 24, 2007 1:25 PM
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» The weak dollar really is a consequence of the Current Account Deficit which is nearing $1 trillion
Posted by: yellow
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Posted by: CV on Nov 24, 2007 1:51 PM
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» RE: The Corporatocracy Hedged Its Bets!
Posted by: Logic's Edge
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Posted by: buzzsaw on Nov 24, 2007 3:43 PM
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The only way to "save" rapidly inflating money is to exchange it for something with intrinsic and enduring value fast, while you can still get something for it. Gold comes to mind, (and has indeed been soaring) but has the problems of physically securing it against thieves and confiscation (remember 1933), and the burden of proving that it is indeed gold of claimed purity when you go to exchange it for something you need. Also, if the stuff really hits the fan, you can't eat gold.
We are set up for the perfect storm, inflation wise. However, the fact that so many of us are head over heels in debt may be our salvation. To the extent that this debt is of fixed interest rate, "they that run things" cannot allow inflation, as this would let debtors off the hook. But "they" might not be able to control this as much as they would like, due to the Chinese holding so much US public debt, and OPEC seriously talking about trading oil in Euros. (Saddam Hussein was talking Euro until we invaded--there's the real weapon of mass destruction, of the value of the dollar, that is.) Once "they" get their wealth out of dollars and in to something else, they will throw the dollar to the wolves. Expecting inflation to exceed my interest rate, I have quit prepaying my mortgage, preferring to pay the fixed monthly dollar amount I owe with increasingly worthless pieces of paper. (Now to convert these savings into items that hold their value and don't deteriorate, are always needed, and preferably, can serve as a medium of exchange, if the going gets really bad.)
In the event of a massive recession, possibly due to attempts to control inflation (raising interest rates with credit already tight), huge numbers of unemployed, defaulting debtors may very well take their creditors down with them. "They" can't let this happen either. Dumping tons of repossessed goods on the market destroys their value.
Economic prophecies tend to be self-fulfilling since the logical preparations tend to create the predicted conditions. For instance, if enough people think they are about to lose their job, they will cut back on discretionary spending to save money to pay bills and buy only absolute necessities. The people who make their living off of this discretionary spending, will perceive the threat to their own jobs, and will cut back accordingly. Soon enough, these job losses will actually materialize, perpetuating and intensifying the cycle.
If people think the dollar will be worthless next week, they will spend them now before prices go up. If enough people do this it will dump too many dollars into the market chasing too few goods and services. This is the very definition of inflation and prices will rise. The credible prediction of an economic condition tends to cause that very condition.
buzzsaw-who wonders why the economic news is always so mixed :)
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Posted by: lrrysgl on Nov 24, 2007 9:14 PM
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At a time when the top 1% of U.S. citizens owns more wealth than the bottom 95%, Bush cut the taxes of the wealthiest 1% while vast numbers of the bottom 95% live paycheck-
to-paycheck and owe enormous credit card debts.
Whether Democrat or Republican, whether Gore or Bush, the result is the same: the U.S. is damn close to becoming a Third World nation. Perhaps if more poor people in Honduras, the Philippines, India or other Third World countries had credit cards they, too -- like so many heavily indebted Americans -- would delude themselves that they were "well-off".
The fact is that the tax rate for the wealthiest Americans was 88% in the two decades following World War II, a time when the U.S. economy was booming. Working-class and middle-class Americans saved more and charged less then, too.
What follows are some disturbing facts (from www.inequality.org) about just how far from a fair economy we've come, notwithstanding the joint Dem-GOP deceitful propaganda that claims most Americans are "better-off" nowadays:
* Middle-class families enjoyed 2.8 percent of the stock market gains between 1989 and 1998, but accounted for 38.8 percent of the increase in household debt. (Economic Policy Institute)
* 60 percent of U.S. workers say that if they were laid off, their savings are sufficient to maintain their current standard of living for
a few months or less. Only 29 percent said they are able to save for the future. 40 percent say they earn enough to be comfortable, but not to save, while 27 percent said they earn only enough to get by, and 3 percent said they are unable to pay their bills. (Fleet Bank)
* 5.4 million Americans live in substandard housing or spend more than half their income on rent. (Fortune, 9/4/00)
* In 1998, the average American worker's inflation-adjusted weekly wages were 12 percent below what they had been in 1973. (Collins,Leondar-Wright and Sklar, Shifting Fortunes)
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» Third world countrys don't have overflowing U-Stor-it places,...
Posted by: aka_bozo
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Posted by: CommonDreamer on Nov 24, 2007 10:53 PM
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I grew up in the best economy of all( born in 1958) when taxes were sky high on the rich and we all were being elevated financially (because you can't steal from your customers - that is, the poor and middle class - and not have repercussions). The Republicans haven't learned that yet...but they will. Of course the rich will not get hurt in any recession...but their consuming crowds will disappear as mortgages consume more and more of their income, as they file bankruptcy, as their credit cards charge them obscene rates.
In that 1960's era, people were advised to save, and to pay off their mortgages, and credit was a thing to handle wisely and sparingly. I was never deprived, but don't remember going shopping as sport - in fact, we almost never went shopping and we were not poor. And we were extremely happy as were most families. What has happened to America? We don't spend non-competitive time with each other, and family values are actually completely unsupported by this administration (read: highest housing prices ever, cutting off affordable housing, layoffs, winner take all mentality, wage depression, etc.).
And finally the most obscene thing of all - the President advising everyone to "just go shopping" when the occupation (not a war) in Iraq was started - but no talk of shared sacrifice or any sacrifice from those of us who remain here.
Do you really want to support this crony regime by shopping? While some of you are losing your houses, hedge fund managers are preparing to receive their largest bonuses yet - collectively a billion or so. So far, they will not be punished for their criminal acts.
Think about it. Stop watching Paris Hilton and buying iPods and overpaying for movies and sports tickets and think about what is being done to you. More than that, stop the star worship and start admiring yourselves and your families - don't make someone else more important than you (as in someone thinking about paying for Miley Cyrus tickets instead of paying their mortgage??!!) - a true story - where are the adults? So many are pandering to the stars and sports as if they had no other lives - and worse, having their kids do it. Stop drinking the star worship koolaid and get your own lives in order and don't let this regime bring you down by seducing you into shopping for things - they won't comfort your soul and your children will be empty minded.
If we don't get a populist candidate in office this time, the only sure thing is that American society will just keep heading for the gutter.
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» RE: Yes, taxes were high, regulations were tough, and unions were strong
Posted by: CommonDreamer
» Life, OTC.
Posted by: Ignatz deFyre
» What IS the PoInT (BeCk) of complaining incessantly about ...
Posted by: aka_bozo
» RE: What IS the PoInT (BeCk) of complaining incessantly about ...
Posted by: Ignatz deFyre
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Posted by: aka_bozo on Nov 26, 2007 10:33 AM
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New restaurants stop opening every week.
Trips to Vegas decline.
The cruise industry starts discounting (haven’t heard anything about this yet).
Airline fares come down (it cost me $2300 for tickets to New Zealand in January – seating is limited).
Right now, there’s no sign of a recession. At least amongst the people who would still classify themselves as "middle-class" and especially amongst the people that politically matter.
As has been pointed out on this site many times, government statistics are no longer reliable. However, this unreliable data is used to fantasize about “the coming recession”. (Note, I’m as negative as anybody, but I’m hoping for a BIG recession in order to “punish” the non-savers. It won’t happen, but we all have our fantasies). These same bogus government statistics also miss, however, the “hidden off-the-books economy”. There is lots of economic activity that’s “off the books” (if you know a “small business owner”, ask them what percentage of their take is “cash” – if they’ll tell you.)
ALSO pointed out on this site is that the US is stratifying into economic layers; which have almost no contact with each other. When (if) there is a big recession, the real question is how far UP the food chain the effect will be. It’s safe to assume the bottom 50% will be affected, but they own nothing now and count for nothing politically, so what effect will their recession have on “the political worthy class”? The top 10% will be safe - they always are - and this group owns almost everything, so what do these people care about a recession? The only question then, is what will be the effect on the remaining 40% of the peasants; AND what will their political handlers be able to make of it.
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» RE: You'll know the recession is real when:
Posted by: makeadifference
» The size of the US will delay the inevitable.
Posted by: aka_bozo
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Posted by: eosrk on Nov 26, 2007 4:20 PM
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In other words, I'm reycling my own eletric
sounds wierd, but a solar-calculator does it all the time, so why not a large solar panel system.
there's no such thing as overeffiency, but not enough of it!
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Posted by: riotoustanpdx on Dec 2, 2007 1:50 PM
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The water is gone, and crops will not grow. The Environment is destroyed, and we are just now paying attention to what has been happening for the last fifty years.
Stop, and learn how to grow your own food. It will mean finding the water and land, and it won't be easy, but if you learn the steps you will have something to pass on to your kids.
Thomas A. Nagy
Global Cooling Initiative
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