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Edwards: If Members of Congress Won't Give Americans a Healthcare Plan, I'll Take Away Theirs
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Arguing that ordinary Americans deserve access to healthcare that's just as good as what members of Congress get is a devastatingly effective message and has long been a crowd-pleaser among progressives. Edwards told radio talker Ed Schultz, "There's no excuse for politicians in Washington to have heathcare, but America doesn't have healthcare, and I think we have to shake this place up a little bit. What we would do is we would submit legislation saying if universal healthcare is not passed by this summer, that the Congress and members of the administration would lose their healthcare coverage."
It's a beautiful piece of populism -- a message that appeals to an American Main Street that polls show to be as disdainful of Congress as it is hurting from spiraling healthcare costs in the face of stagnant wages. It's a campaign that can showcase how much lawmakers appreciate the kind of coverage they receive and just how hard they'd fight to keep it, and, importantly, will make it that much harder for opponents to mouth the inevitable blather about the perfidy of "government-run," "socialized healthcare" with a straight face.
But while the ads represent a very nice piece of political rhetoric by Edwards, make no mistake: It's also the public presentation of a serious and thoughtful healthcare proposal (PDF) -- one that would cover every American -- that is both pragmatic in its approach and also the most progressive in the field after Dennis Kucinich's.
Edwards's plan, like that available to members of Congress, is built around a lot of choice. Employers would have the option of either covering employees privately or sharing the costs of purchasing coverage from among a menu of state-run plans -- called "health markets" -- with different amounts of coverage and at different prices. These would all have the advantages of economies of scale and of spreading risk out over large insurance pools. All of the plans would be "open to everyone," regardless of "pre-existing conditions, medical history, age, job and other characteristics."
Some single-payer advocates have criticized the plan because, unlike Dennis Kucinich's call to establish a not-for-profit health system, Edwards' plan would leave the insurance industry in place to suck patients dry and add enormously to the nation's healthcare tab.
But while it's well-intentioned, most of the criticism misses a crucial aspect of the plan.
The key to Edwards' approach is that it mandates the creation of at least one health market that's fully public, based on the Medicare model and available to all. That means that the public sector would be allowed to compete with private insurers -- a concept that's anathema among conservatives -- and consumers would be able to choose the option, public or private, that gives them the best bang for the buck.
The idea is that once the benefits of a single-payer system become clear -- especially the lower costs advocates predict -- eventually most people would move, voluntarily, from the private health markets to the fully public one, and the politics of the transition to single-payer would be infinitely more manageable.
That Edwards' healthcare plan anticipates that transition is no secret; it's spelled out explicitly:
Health Markets will offer a choice between private insurers and a public insurance plan modeled after Medicare, but separate and apart from it. Families and individuals will choose the plan that works best for them. This American solution will reward the sector that offers the best care at the best price. Over time, the system may evolve toward a single-payer approach if individuals and businesses prefer the public plan.Some observers have argued that Edwards' threat is a nice piece of political theater -- a means of making a point -- but not much more. When blogger Ben Smith asked University of Chicago law professor Cass Sunstein about some legal questions surrounding Edwards' proposal, he said that the question was irrelevant. "It's a stunt," he replied, "Congress isn't going to enact legislation taking away its own healthcare."
But the campaign is adamant that this is a very real proposal -- one that Edwards feels strongly about -- and not a mere stunt. "He's deadly serious about passing this," a senior staffer with the campaign told me. "And, contrary to what many are saying, I don't see how Congress could not pass it."
That may just be true. As blogger Ezra Klein noted: "The idea behind this bill is that it will ratchet up political pressure for change, creating a situation in which congressmen come to the table because they fear losing their seats if they don't. It's a strategy based on the application of political pressure, not legislative finesse." Edwards promised Ed Schultz that if he's elected and Congress doesn't pass his bill, "I'm going to go as president into their congressional district, into their Senate states and say your senator or your congressmen is supporting healthcare for himself and against healthcare for you."
One thing is clear about Edwards' proposal: Audiences in Iowa eat it up. What remains to be seen is whether it's enough to give him some traction in a race that's seen Hillary Clinton build a commanding lead nationwide. Edwards trails Clinton by 15 points in New Hampshire, but is statistically tied with Clinton and Obama in Iowa, where the first primary (caucus) will take place in about seven weeks. According to a recent New York Times poll, primary voters in Iowa and New Hampshire prefer both Edwards and Obama on the issues -- and say they're more likely to speak honestly to voters -- but favor Clinton in terms of electability. While that's probably a dubious means of evaluating a candidate's strength, it does indicate that some portion of Clinton's support is purely tactical and not deeply held.
That's an opportunity. Momentum can shift quickly in those early primaries and, with a bit more smart politics like Edwards' latest campaign on healthcare, we could be looking at a very different race in early 2008.
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Posted by: vox persona on Nov 15, 2007 12:21 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Listen to me now and hear me later
Posted by: surfreality
» RE: Listen to me now and hear me later
Posted by: Jefferson's Guardian
» RE: Listen to me now and hear me later
Posted by: Jefferson's Guardian
» RE: Presume you mean Ron Paul is an ultraconservative.
Posted by: Christie
» RE: Presume you mean Ron Paul is an ultraconservative.
Posted by: Jefferson's Guardian
» RE: Listen to me now and hear me later
Posted by: jbur816
» Ron Paul's Voting Record Leaves Much to be Desired
Posted by: Jefferson's Guardian
» How about "Ron Paul is a loon"?
Posted by: soulrebeljc
» Plus his health plan is a sham
Posted by: B. Spoon
» "His" means Ron Paul's Plan is a sham
Posted by: B. Spoon
» yer not the only one from that state
Posted by: KaptainSpiffy
» Why can't Dems get it together and send up someone that is the whole package?
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» What we really, really (really) need...
Posted by: B. Spoon
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Posted by: oregoncharles on Nov 15, 2007 12:49 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Let me quote Matt Taibbi (last I heard, a doctrinaire Dem), interviewed on Brad Blog: "If it comes down to Hillary versus Giuliani, the Green Party could run Big Bird and get 28% of the vote." I think we can do better than Big Bird.
Edwards is the only one of the Big Three who could hold progressives in the party. For that very reason, he is highly unlikely to win, unless the party completely loses control of the process.
I'm still planning on Hillary. They haven't lost control since McGovern, and next year they get to win.
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» RE: Unless they throw it away.
Posted by: oregoncharles
» RE: Unless they throw it away.
Posted by: Turkiye
» RE: Unless they throw it away.
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Uh-oh
Posted by: scheherezade
» RE: Uh-oh
Posted by: LouisFallert
» RE: Uh-oh
Posted by: DanoM
» RE: Uh-oh
Posted by: oregoncharles
» RE: Uh-oh
Posted by: Basenjis
» how
Posted by: Rod
» RE: how
Posted by: oregoncharles
» RE: Uh-oh
Posted by: surfreality
» I'm voting for Dennis
Posted by: wireup
» RE: Dennis isn't running for President.
Posted by: oregoncharles
» RE: Dennis isn't running for President.
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Dennis isn't running for President.
Posted by: oregoncharles
» RE: Dennis isn't running for President.
Posted by: Joshua Holland
Comments are closed-
Posted by: oregonscribbler on Nov 15, 2007 1:26 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Every time anyone proposes universal health in the US, the flimflam artists come out with piecharts and flowcharts and Rube Goldberg schemes designed to obscure the fact that so much of the health money is going to CEOs and shareholders, and that so much of our GOVERNMENT— our PUBLIC money is thrown into a system which provides skimpy care.
Kucinich is the only candidate that calls flat-out for single payer. It astounds me that the public is going along with the three top Democratic candidates beginning their health care discussion with passing a law requiring all Americans to buy insurance! As if people don't get health care because they are parasites! What an insult.
We need a bold plan, to really revolutionize our health care system. Make it single payer and decentralized, like in Canada, with people going to the doctor of their choice. Make it labor intensive and include alternative health practitioners — because simple attention and touch are often as healing as pharmaceuticals, only without negative side effects.
We ALREADY PAY for a fabulous health care system, we're just not getting. It's time we forced the bureaucrats and plutocrats and industrialists to stand out of the way and let the rest of us make it happen.
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» RE: Kucinich first...
Posted by: peacelf
» RE: dwards Fatal Flaw
Posted by: fedupw/bush
» Agreed
Posted by: soulrebeljc
» RE: Agreed
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: Agreed
Posted by: werewolf
» RE: dwards Fatal Flaw
Posted by: hilaryuk
» RE: Edwards Fatal Flaw- A Real Revolution in Health Care
Posted by: oregonscribbler
» RE: dwards Fatal Flaw
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: dwards Fatal Flaw
Posted by: wcox
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Posted by: scheherezade on Nov 15, 2007 4:56 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Citizens initially arose when greedy insurance companies refused to cover high-risk property owners.
At first, the agency could only write wind and other coverage private companies refused to cover. They were required to be more expensive than private coverage.
After the 2004 hurricane season, the laws changed. Now Citizens can compete with private insurers, and can write multiple coverage policies.
This allows them to incorporate a variety of propertyowners into the coverage pool, greatly spreaking risk.
Citizens' coverage has jumped from 600,000 policies (covering $148 billion) in 2002; to 1.3 million policies covering $440 billion, today.
Of course, the Florida Legislature did not create a de facto 'single payer' agency out of the goodness of their politician hearts.
Citizens is necessary because developers, Florida's kingmakers, cannot continue to build, build, build without an adequate insurance coverage presence.
Edwards proposal to stick a poker under U.S. lawmakers via their personal health coverage will probably not be enough to get them moving in a similar direction, but it is certainly an excellent start. Perhaps Mr. Bush's generous signing statement legacy will offer further possibilities in that direction.
H.R. 676 (introduced by John Conyers, incidentally) already lays out a plan for single payer public health insurance. It has been languishing in committees since it's inception...maybe this is the year we get lucky.
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Posted by: Trazom on Nov 15, 2007 6:00 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Plus, the public healthcare system is not without its faults. Granted, its better than nothing, but there are some serious flaws that need to be dealt with. For instance, my brother can't qualify for Medicaid because his estranged wife is currently drawing from it, so that disqualifies him from it apparently. Has something to do with only one claim per state (yes, they live in different parts of the same state). So he is screwed, even though he badly needs some form of insurance. Even under Edward's proposal, my brother still has no choice without further changes to the law.
This is just one example. I'm sure there are many others, which is why I believe removing private health care is the only way to go.
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Posted by: TZ on Nov 15, 2007 6:37 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The total Administrative costs of the old plan were often touted as about 3% for each dollar spent. Now our friends at Medical Mutual have an average administrative cost of about 40%. I wish to hell I was one of the bosses at Medical Mutual.
Now you wonder why our costs are so high and care so low. The Insurance Industry will not admit this and Medical Mutual in Cleveland (Ohio) claim they cannot break out these costs. They do not want us to know this but we do know it since some clients have "Third Party Administrators" working for them and since these folks review each claim, they only pay what are really medical bills. Maybe the Candidates ought to push for a mandate to force the Insurance Industry to use real, independent, Third Party Administrators.
These administrator could not be part of the Medical Providers in any manner, shape or form.
By the way, Medical Mutual just purchased one of the largest Third Party Administrators in Ohio. By so doing they will keep the cash cow producing milk. It is disgusting.
Think of it folks, we could save about 15% to 20% of our total bill and the private insurance boys would still make one hell of a living. It would not be as huge, but still very nice.
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» Very interesting!
Posted by: Sojourner
» RE: adam054
Posted by: Ames
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Posted by: pdxstudent on Nov 15, 2007 6:38 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Who Wants Choices When It Comes to Healthcare?
Posted by: Landbaron
» RE: Who Wants Choices When It Comes to Healthcare?
Posted by: pdxstudent
» RE: Who Wants Choices When It Comes to Healthcare?
Posted by: VZEQICVA
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Posted by: packofwolves on Nov 15, 2007 6:43 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: You're flipping the bill
Posted by: Jefferson's Guardian
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Posted by: pdxstudent on Nov 15, 2007 7:13 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
For all these reasons, I don't think Edwards threat means anything. So fucking what if we make the empty gesture of not paying for Congress's healthcare if they won't pay for ours. It's rhetorical bread and circus more than anything, because it isn't really a lever of influence.
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» there is such a thing as "gesture politics"
Posted by: Suzon
» And for some people, no matter what you do, it ain't good enough.
Posted by: Sojourner
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Posted by: AlohaTerry on Nov 15, 2007 7:26 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: JOHN EDWARDS IS DA MAN!
Posted by: Landbaron
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Posted by: pdxstudent on Nov 15, 2007 7:39 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Edwards' threat plays more to people's sense of ownership and selfishness than it does to their common- or even good-sense about our government's relationship with the health insurance industry.
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» it's your opinion, not mine, that it's an empty gesture
Posted by: Suzon
» What's Wrong is That Edwards Says This...
Posted by: pdxstudent
» RE: What's Wrong is That Edwards Says This...
Posted by: wmGreybeard
» RE: What's Wrong is That Edwards Says This...
Posted by: pdxstudent
» pdxstudent, there's a world of difference between morality and moral rightousness
Posted by: Suzon
» RE: pdxstudent, there's a world of difference between morality and moral rightousness
Posted by: pdxstudent
» RE: What's Wrong is That Edwards Says This...
Posted by: Jefferson's Guardian
» RE: What's Wrong is That Edwards Says This...
Posted by: pdxstudent
» You have to start somewhere...
Posted by: Jefferson's Guardian
» RE: Very Well Stated J. Guardian
Posted by: MeridaLady
» RE: So What - An empty gesture is still empty?
Posted by: Basenjis
» RE: So What - An empty gesture is still empty?
Posted by: Basenjis
Comments are closed-
Posted by: rocketman on Nov 15, 2007 8:44 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I can get insurance but it has cost me almost $20,000 a year for a decent plan. I've switched to a so so plan for $12,000!.
If the poor gets it for free and I have to continue to pay these enormous rates, democrats will never get my vote!
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» RE: Show me the money!
Posted by: chloe08
» RE: Show me the money!
Posted by: rocketman
» RE: Show me the money!
Posted by: Basenjis
» ...a so so plan for $12,000... ?
Posted by: Bearzerker
» ...a so so plan for $12,000... ?
Posted by: Bearzerker
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Posted by: peacelf on Nov 15, 2007 8:52 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Edwards' plan makes smart political sense, even though it caters to the health insurance lobby. I think a public health care program in competition with private health insurance is a smart move toward a single payer system.
Yes, I am as cynical about our political leadership allowing a program like this to fester into, shhhh! "socialized" medicine. However...
Like social security, once in service, the people will not let public health care coverage die. It will become a political hot button that voters will defeat anyone who touches it. And, it could solve once or for all the conservative's argument that the private sector can do it better.
peace
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» If not Kucinich, then take Edwards
Posted by: Jefferson's Guardian
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Posted by: drricklippin on Nov 15, 2007 8:57 AM
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And of course Edward's set the mark for the other candidates by coming out with health care reform specifics first.
Believe me - no matter which DEM gets in we will see major changes in their first term despite the fearful-spineless politicians from both sides of the aisle
The US people, including the middle and upper middle class, have had it- especially with insurance companies.
(I keep hoping for more prevention in ALL the proposals includinf Edward's)
Be Well,
Dr. Rick Lippin
Southampton, Pa
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Posted by: buh on Nov 15, 2007 9:38 AM
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Posted by: Knot_Rich on Nov 15, 2007 10:15 AM
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Posted by: 15delta on Nov 15, 2007 10:22 AM
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Edwards says he will stop congress and there health care. After that Ed Schultz asked him if he could really do that?
His answer was no, but I can scare them.
That makes Edwards a liar and has no right to hit Hillary with ANYTHING!
He is also a hypocrite.
And he lost me.
Clean your own yard Edwards
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» Let's get this straight ...
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Let's get this straight ...
Posted by: soulrebeljc
» RE: Let's get this straight ...
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» Joshua, I Know You're a Smart Guy
Posted by: pdxstudent
» RE: Joshua, I Know You're a Smart Guy
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Here's An Article Link re: Edwards
Posted by: MeridaLady
» So the Miss Manners posters here tell Edwards to "Be nice"? Come judgment day, maybe.
Posted by: Sojourner
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Posted by: TJ-stars4peace on Nov 15, 2007 10:45 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But he isn't so he's not..!
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» RE: Single payer System...
Posted by: Jefferson's Guardian
» RE: Single payer System...
Posted by: Landbaron
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Posted by: Landbaron on Nov 15, 2007 10:45 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Edwards is obviously not scared to step on toes to get things done!!
Posted by: soulrebeljc
» RE: dwards is obviously not scared to step on toes to get things done!!
Posted by: Basenjis
» RE: dwards is obviously not scared to step on toes to get things done!!
Posted by: Landbaron
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Posted by: Suzon on Nov 15, 2007 2:58 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Many people who are not in the protected elite don't really care how they get social justice. They just understand that they deserve it.
So far only one person very important to me has suffered (for years) and died (prematurely) because she didn't have medical insurance.
That's one too many for me. Congresscritters, wake up!
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Posted by: Rune on Nov 15, 2007 3:30 PM
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If their objection is that they think the government will find a way to be less reliable or efficient than the private system with costs that increase at many times the rate of inflation while denying more and more of the care that doctors and, in many tragic cases, coroners say is/was needed, wouldn't a voucher system that can be used in public or private facilities protect against that--according to the logic they have been spouting about public and private schools for years?
And, just to make sure the public system isn't dragged down by politicians on the take from the medical and insurance companies, let's limit the government's input to making laws that recognize the public's system and provide vouchers and seed capital to help fund it. The directors of the program should be directly elected by the people and help accountable for keeping open books and obeying stringent accounting and other fiduciary responsibility laws. The new public system itself should be a U.S. resident owned self-insurance program, thus giving the public that uses and relies upon the system control and a stake in the system without having to worry about corporate manipulation and takeovers. And just for good measure, let's dust off those antitrust laws that guard against predatory pricing and refusal to deal with a certain buyer--and beef up the enforcement of those in the new market for healthcare insurance for next decade with, say, about a month's worth of Iraq occupation spending, just to help things get off to a good start.
Oh, and did I mention that the government will automatically pay the buy-in costs for all vets and members of the military? Yeah, that should be another good jump start.
What else should we add to the system to make sure it not only functions but short circuits the political mumbo jumbo that will be used to argue that it cannot work? How about a little positive brainstorming instead of the usual testimonies to hopelessness and cynacism?
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Posted by: Jeanne on Nov 15, 2007 9:30 PM
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Posted by: Overburdened Planet on Nov 16, 2007 9:10 AM
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Imagine the impact removing their health coverage would have. They earn quite enough money to afford any coverage they want. They give themselves raises every year. They can increase their salaries to counter any monetary loss if their health coverage is eliminated, meaning they will find a way to make up for that loss, guaranteed.
Edwards is posturing. Why doesn't the public see through him or any other candidate's campaign promises? I'm aware of a particular conservative who ran for Congress last year and in an interview said cutting payroll taxes would allow people to afford medical insurance. Who hasn't heard that one before? Does the math work?
Absolutely not, but these candidates fully expect some of you to just accept what they were saying as feasible or possible. In fact, some of you are willing to believe anything these people say, defend their failing points, even considering the real possibility Edwards will not win.
I don't know who I should be more upset with, a bunch of liars in Congress, or those of you that think Edwards' claim has any meaning.
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Posted by: westomoon on Nov 16, 2007 12:12 PM
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I get my health care from the program Edwards is threatening to shut down -- the Federal Employees Health Benefits Program. It's not a great insurance program -- co-pay for most things is around 25% of strange low-ball numbers set by the insurers plus the substantial balance of the actual market cost of care, and it contains nothing that isn't approved by Senator Foghorn Leghorn and his snake-handling fundie constituents -- forget about coverage of chiroprtactic, acupuncture, naturoppathy, or any other foreign and satanic practice.
Reading the article, I also went into a swoon of despair at the "same old, same old" approach -- until I processed the fact that Edwards is also building in a Medicare option. Trust me, I would opt for medicare this instant if I could, and so would you, if you'd seen it in action. It's a relic of the days when health insurance actually covered what you needed to get well, unlike any of the insurance plans in the market these days. It won't take long for the rest of the country to make the same choice, once they're given the option. And voila, you then have National Health with no discernable bad guy who made us shift to the Communist way of life.
Back to the Federal plan. The one good quality it does have is that nobody gets turned down, and pre-existing conditions are covered, after a waiting period. For Congress (and their staffs) to dodge Edwards' ploy by opting for individual plans, nobody in their family could have a pre-existing condition, and they'd have to be ready to cover mental health, maternity costs, and a lot of other categories out-of-pocket. Simply having money to spend (and Congressional salaries these days put them in the middle class, not the ranks of the wealthy) is not enough to get you insured.
We have already split into concierge-care and gerbil-care -- but Congress isn't in the concierge-care plan. For us regular gerbils, a Medicare-based plan is much closer to concierge than anything offered by a private insurer today. I'm not convinced yet that Edwards is the progressive's best hope (my vote is still with Seabiscuit), but this is a damn smart approach to letting the country bring about a single-payer system by "voting with its feet", and thus depriving the right-wing noise machine of its next thirty-year grievance.
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» RE: The Practical Side- Medicare For All
Posted by: oregonscribbler
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Posted by: halg on Nov 16, 2007 1:15 PM
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In order for the government to be competitive in such a market, it would have to forego certain treatments just like its "private" competitors. If the government-run system is permitted to spend more to provide such treatments, the private market will scream bloody murder that the government has an unfair advantage against them.
So long as corporations or government can limit what your doctor is allowed to do for you -- as opposed to what your doctor should be doing for you -- then we don't really have a healthcare system. The only true solution is universal, one-payer. It, too, will not be a perfect system, but duh, what is? At least people will get the care they need, and the system will encourage preventative healthcare which the current system does not have any motive to do.
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Posted by: Marcy on Nov 22, 2007 10:02 AM
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Posted by: lamac66 on Nov 22, 2007 11:49 AM
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I like the premise Edwards presents, if they won't pass healthcare legislation they should not benefit from what they have on our dime.
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Posted by: vox persona on Nov 15, 2007 12:21 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Listen to me now and hear me later
Posted by: surfreality
» RE: Listen to me now and hear me later
Posted by: Jefferson's Guardian
» RE: Listen to me now and hear me later
Posted by: Jefferson's Guardian
» RE: Presume you mean Ron Paul is an ultraconservative.
Posted by: Christie
» RE: Presume you mean Ron Paul is an ultraconservative.
Posted by: Jefferson's Guardian
» RE: Listen to me now and hear me later
Posted by: jbur816
» Ron Paul's Voting Record Leaves Much to be Desired
Posted by: Jefferson's Guardian
» How about "Ron Paul is a loon"?
Posted by: soulrebeljc
» Plus his health plan is a sham
Posted by: B. Spoon
» "His" means Ron Paul's Plan is a sham
Posted by: B. Spoon
» yer not the only one from that state
Posted by: KaptainSpiffy
» Why can't Dems get it together and send up someone that is the whole package?
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» What we really, really (really) need...
Posted by: B. Spoon
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Posted by: oregoncharles on Nov 15, 2007 12:49 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Let me quote Matt Taibbi (last I heard, a doctrinaire Dem), interviewed on Brad Blog: "If it comes down to Hillary versus Giuliani, the Green Party could run Big Bird and get 28% of the vote." I think we can do better than Big Bird.
Edwards is the only one of the Big Three who could hold progressives in the party. For that very reason, he is highly unlikely to win, unless the party completely loses control of the process.
I'm still planning on Hillary. They haven't lost control since McGovern, and next year they get to win.
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» RE: Unless they throw it away.
Posted by: oregoncharles
» RE: Unless they throw it away.
Posted by: Turkiye
» RE: Unless they throw it away.
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Uh-oh
Posted by: scheherezade
» RE: Uh-oh
Posted by: LouisFallert
» RE: Uh-oh
Posted by: DanoM
» RE: Uh-oh
Posted by: oregoncharles
» RE: Uh-oh
Posted by: Basenjis
» how
Posted by: Rod
» RE: how
Posted by: oregoncharles
» RE: Uh-oh
Posted by: surfreality
» I'm voting for Dennis
Posted by: wireup
» RE: Dennis isn't running for President.
Posted by: oregoncharles
» RE: Dennis isn't running for President.
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Dennis isn't running for President.
Posted by: oregoncharles
» RE: Dennis isn't running for President.
Posted by: Joshua Holland
Comments are closed-
Posted by: oregonscribbler on Nov 15, 2007 1:26 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Every time anyone proposes universal health in the US, the flimflam artists come out with piecharts and flowcharts and Rube Goldberg schemes designed to obscure the fact that so much of the health money is going to CEOs and shareholders, and that so much of our GOVERNMENT— our PUBLIC money is thrown into a system which provides skimpy care.
Kucinich is the only candidate that calls flat-out for single payer. It astounds me that the public is going along with the three top Democratic candidates beginning their health care discussion with passing a law requiring all Americans to buy insurance! As if people don't get health care because they are parasites! What an insult.
We need a bold plan, to really revolutionize our health care system. Make it single payer and decentralized, like in Canada, with people going to the doctor of their choice. Make it labor intensive and include alternative health practitioners — because simple attention and touch are often as healing as pharmaceuticals, only without negative side effects.
We ALREADY PAY for a fabulous health care system, we're just not getting. It's time we forced the bureaucrats and plutocrats and industrialists to stand out of the way and let the rest of us make it happen.
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» RE: Kucinich first...
Posted by: peacelf
» RE: dwards Fatal Flaw
Posted by: fedupw/bush
» Agreed
Posted by: soulrebeljc
» RE: Agreed
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: Agreed
Posted by: werewolf
» RE: dwards Fatal Flaw
Posted by: hilaryuk
» RE: Edwards Fatal Flaw- A Real Revolution in Health Care
Posted by: oregonscribbler
» RE: dwards Fatal Flaw
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: dwards Fatal Flaw
Posted by: wcox
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Posted by: scheherezade on Nov 15, 2007 4:56 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Citizens initially arose when greedy insurance companies refused to cover high-risk property owners.
At first, the agency could only write wind and other coverage private companies refused to cover. They were required to be more expensive than private coverage.
After the 2004 hurricane season, the laws changed. Now Citizens can compete with private insurers, and can write multiple coverage policies.
This allows them to incorporate a variety of propertyowners into the coverage pool, greatly spreaking risk.
Citizens' coverage has jumped from 600,000 policies (covering $148 billion) in 2002; to 1.3 million policies covering $440 billion, today.
Of course, the Florida Legislature did not create a de facto 'single payer' agency out of the goodness of their politician hearts.
Citizens is necessary because developers, Florida's kingmakers, cannot continue to build, build, build without an adequate insurance coverage presence.
Edwards proposal to stick a poker under U.S. lawmakers via their personal health coverage will probably not be enough to get them moving in a similar direction, but it is certainly an excellent start. Perhaps Mr. Bush's generous signing statement legacy will offer further possibilities in that direction.
H.R. 676 (introduced by John Conyers, incidentally) already lays out a plan for single payer public health insurance. It has been languishing in committees since it's inception...maybe this is the year we get lucky.
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Posted by: Trazom on Nov 15, 2007 6:00 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Plus, the public healthcare system is not without its faults. Granted, its better than nothing, but there are some serious flaws that need to be dealt with. For instance, my brother can't qualify for Medicaid because his estranged wife is currently drawing from it, so that disqualifies him from it apparently. Has something to do with only one claim per state (yes, they live in different parts of the same state). So he is screwed, even though he badly needs some form of insurance. Even under Edward's proposal, my brother still has no choice without further changes to the law.
This is just one example. I'm sure there are many others, which is why I believe removing private health care is the only way to go.
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Posted by: TZ on Nov 15, 2007 6:37 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The total Administrative costs of the old plan were often touted as about 3% for each dollar spent. Now our friends at Medical Mutual have an average administrative cost of about 40%. I wish to hell I was one of the bosses at Medical Mutual.
Now you wonder why our costs are so high and care so low. The Insurance Industry will not admit this and Medical Mutual in Cleveland (Ohio) claim they cannot break out these costs. They do not want us to know this but we do know it since some clients have "Third Party Administrators" working for them and since these folks review each claim, they only pay what are really medical bills. Maybe the Candidates ought to push for a mandate to force the Insurance Industry to use real, independent, Third Party Administrators.
These administrator could not be part of the Medical Providers in any manner, shape or form.
By the way, Medical Mutual just purchased one of the largest Third Party Administrators in Ohio. By so doing they will keep the cash cow producing milk. It is disgusting.
Think of it folks, we could save about 15% to 20% of our total bill and the private insurance boys would still make one hell of a living. It would not be as huge, but still very nice.
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» Very interesting!
Posted by: Sojourner
» RE: adam054
Posted by: Ames
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Posted by: pdxstudent on Nov 15, 2007 6:38 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Who Wants Choices When It Comes to Healthcare?
Posted by: Landbaron
» RE: Who Wants Choices When It Comes to Healthcare?
Posted by: pdxstudent
» RE: Who Wants Choices When It Comes to Healthcare?
Posted by: VZEQICVA
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Posted by: packofwolves on Nov 15, 2007 6:43 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: You're flipping the bill
Posted by: Jefferson's Guardian
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Posted by: pdxstudent on Nov 15, 2007 7:13 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
For all these reasons, I don't think Edwards threat means anything. So fucking what if we make the empty gesture of not paying for Congress's healthcare if they won't pay for ours. It's rhetorical bread and circus more than anything, because it isn't really a lever of influence.
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» there is such a thing as "gesture politics"
Posted by: Suzon
» And for some people, no matter what you do, it ain't good enough.
Posted by: Sojourner
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Posted by: AlohaTerry on Nov 15, 2007 7:26 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: JOHN EDWARDS IS DA MAN!
Posted by: Landbaron
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Posted by: pdxstudent on Nov 15, 2007 7:39 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Edwards' threat plays more to people's sense of ownership and selfishness than it does to their common- or even good-sense about our government's relationship with the health insurance industry.
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» it's your opinion, not mine, that it's an empty gesture
Posted by: Suzon
» What's Wrong is That Edwards Says This...
Posted by: pdxstudent
» RE: What's Wrong is That Edwards Says This...
Posted by: wmGreybeard
» RE: What's Wrong is That Edwards Says This...
Posted by: pdxstudent
» pdxstudent, there's a world of difference between morality and moral rightousness
Posted by: Suzon
» RE: pdxstudent, there's a world of difference between morality and moral rightousness
Posted by: pdxstudent
» RE: What's Wrong is That Edwards Says This...
Posted by: Jefferson's Guardian
» RE: What's Wrong is That Edwards Says This...
Posted by: pdxstudent
» You have to start somewhere...
Posted by: Jefferson's Guardian
» RE: Very Well Stated J. Guardian
Posted by: MeridaLady
» RE: So What - An empty gesture is still empty?
Posted by: Basenjis
» RE: So What - An empty gesture is still empty?
Posted by: Basenjis
Comments are closed-
Posted by: rocketman on Nov 15, 2007 8:44 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I can get insurance but it has cost me almost $20,000 a year for a decent plan. I've switched to a so so plan for $12,000!.
If the poor gets it for free and I have to continue to pay these enormous rates, democrats will never get my vote!
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» RE: Show me the money!
Posted by: chloe08
» RE: Show me the money!
Posted by: rocketman
» RE: Show me the money!
Posted by: Basenjis
» ...a so so plan for $12,000... ?
Posted by: Bearzerker
» ...a so so plan for $12,000... ?
Posted by: Bearzerker
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Posted by: peacelf on Nov 15, 2007 8:52 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Edwards' plan makes smart political sense, even though it caters to the health insurance lobby. I think a public health care program in competition with private health insurance is a smart move toward a single payer system.
Yes, I am as cynical about our political leadership allowing a program like this to fester into, shhhh! "socialized" medicine. However...
Like social security, once in service, the people will not let public health care coverage die. It will become a political hot button that voters will defeat anyone who touches it. And, it could solve once or for all the conservative's argument that the private sector can do it better.
peace
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» If not Kucinich, then take Edwards
Posted by: Jefferson's Guardian
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Posted by: drricklippin on Nov 15, 2007 8:57 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And of course Edward's set the mark for the other candidates by coming out with health care reform specifics first.
Believe me - no matter which DEM gets in we will see major changes in their first term despite the fearful-spineless politicians from both sides of the aisle
The US people, including the middle and upper middle class, have had it- especially with insurance companies.
(I keep hoping for more prevention in ALL the proposals includinf Edward's)
Be Well,
Dr. Rick Lippin
Southampton, Pa
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Posted by: buh on Nov 15, 2007 9:38 AM
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Posted by: Knot_Rich on Nov 15, 2007 10:15 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: 15delta on Nov 15, 2007 10:22 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Edwards says he will stop congress and there health care. After that Ed Schultz asked him if he could really do that?
His answer was no, but I can scare them.
That makes Edwards a liar and has no right to hit Hillary with ANYTHING!
He is also a hypocrite.
And he lost me.
Clean your own yard Edwards
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» Let's get this straight ...
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Let's get this straight ...
Posted by: soulrebeljc
» RE: Let's get this straight ...
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» Joshua, I Know You're a Smart Guy
Posted by: pdxstudent
» RE: Joshua, I Know You're a Smart Guy
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Here's An Article Link re: Edwards
Posted by: MeridaLady
» So the Miss Manners posters here tell Edwards to "Be nice"? Come judgment day, maybe.
Posted by: Sojourner
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Posted by: TJ-stars4peace on Nov 15, 2007 10:45 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But he isn't so he's not..!
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» RE: Single payer System...
Posted by: Jefferson's Guardian
» RE: Single payer System...
Posted by: Landbaron
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Posted by: Landbaron on Nov 15, 2007 10:45 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Edwards is obviously not scared to step on toes to get things done!!
Posted by: soulrebeljc
» RE: dwards is obviously not scared to step on toes to get things done!!
Posted by: Basenjis
» RE: dwards is obviously not scared to step on toes to get things done!!
Posted by: Landbaron
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Suzon on Nov 15, 2007 2:58 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Many people who are not in the protected elite don't really care how they get social justice. They just understand that they deserve it.
So far only one person very important to me has suffered (for years) and died (prematurely) because she didn't have medical insurance.
That's one too many for me. Congresscritters, wake up!
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Posted by: Rune on Nov 15, 2007 3:30 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If their objection is that they think the government will find a way to be less reliable or efficient than the private system with costs that increase at many times the rate of inflation while denying more and more of the care that doctors and, in many tragic cases, coroners say is/was needed, wouldn't a voucher system that can be used in public or private facilities protect against that--according to the logic they have been spouting about public and private schools for years?
And, just to make sure the public system isn't dragged down by politicians on the take from the medical and insurance companies, let's limit the government's input to making laws that recognize the public's system and provide vouchers and seed capital to help fund it. The directors of the program should be directly elected by the people and help accountable for keeping open books and obeying stringent accounting and other fiduciary responsibility laws. The new public system itself should be a U.S. resident owned self-insurance program, thus giving the public that uses and relies upon the system control and a stake in the system without having to worry about corporate manipulation and takeovers. And just for good measure, let's dust off those antitrust laws that guard against predatory pricing and refusal to deal with a certain buyer--and beef up the enforcement of those in the new market for healthcare insurance for next decade with, say, about a month's worth of Iraq occupation spending, just to help things get off to a good start.
Oh, and did I mention that the government will automatically pay the buy-in costs for all vets and members of the military? Yeah, that should be another good jump start.
What else should we add to the system to make sure it not only functions but short circuits the political mumbo jumbo that will be used to argue that it cannot work? How about a little positive brainstorming instead of the usual testimonies to hopelessness and cynacism?
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Posted by: Jeanne on Nov 15, 2007 9:30 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Overburdened Planet on Nov 16, 2007 9:10 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Imagine the impact removing their health coverage would have. They earn quite enough money to afford any coverage they want. They give themselves raises every year. They can increase their salaries to counter any monetary loss if their health coverage is eliminated, meaning they will find a way to make up for that loss, guaranteed.
Edwards is posturing. Why doesn't the public see through him or any other candidate's campaign promises? I'm aware of a particular conservative who ran for Congress last year and in an interview said cutting payroll taxes would allow people to afford medical insurance. Who hasn't heard that one before? Does the math work?
Absolutely not, but these candidates fully expect some of you to just accept what they were saying as feasible or possible. In fact, some of you are willing to believe anything these people say, defend their failing points, even considering the real possibility Edwards will not win.
I don't know who I should be more upset with, a bunch of liars in Congress, or those of you that think Edwards' claim has any meaning.
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Posted by: westomoon on Nov 16, 2007 12:12 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I get my health care from the program Edwards is threatening to shut down -- the Federal Employees Health Benefits Program. It's not a great insurance program -- co-pay for most things is around 25% of strange low-ball numbers set by the insurers plus the substantial balance of the actual market cost of care, and it contains nothing that isn't approved by Senator Foghorn Leghorn and his snake-handling fundie constituents -- forget about coverage of chiroprtactic, acupuncture, naturoppathy, or any other foreign and satanic practice.
Reading the article, I also went into a swoon of despair at the "same old, same old" approach -- until I processed the fact that Edwards is also building in a Medicare option. Trust me, I would opt for medicare this instant if I could, and so would you, if you'd seen it in action. It's a relic of the days when health insurance actually covered what you needed to get well, unlike any of the insurance plans in the market these days. It won't take long for the rest of the country to make the same choice, once they're given the option. And voila, you then have National Health with no discernable bad guy who made us shift to the Communist way of life.
Back to the Federal plan. The one good quality it does have is that nobody gets turned down, and pre-existing conditions are covered, after a waiting period. For Congress (and their staffs) to dodge Edwards' ploy by opting for individual plans, nobody in their family could have a pre-existing condition, and they'd have to be ready to cover mental health, maternity costs, and a lot of other categories out-of-pocket. Simply having money to spend (and Congressional salaries these days put them in the middle class, not the ranks of the wealthy) is not enough to get you insured.
We have already split into concierge-care and gerbil-care -- but Congress isn't in the concierge-care plan. For us regular gerbils, a Medicare-based plan is much closer to concierge than anything offered by a private insurer today. I'm not convinced yet that Edwards is the progressive's best hope (my vote is still with Seabiscuit), but this is a damn smart approach to letting the country bring about a single-payer system by "voting with its feet", and thus depriving the right-wing noise machine of its next thirty-year grievance.
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» RE: The Practical Side- Medicare For All
Posted by: oregonscribbler
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Posted by: halg on Nov 16, 2007 1:15 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In order for the government to be competitive in such a market, it would have to forego certain treatments just like its "private" competitors. If the government-run system is permitted to spend more to provide such treatments, the private market will scream bloody murder that the government has an unfair advantage against them.
So long as corporations or government can limit what your doctor is allowed to do for you -- as opposed to what your doctor should be doing for you -- then we don't really have a healthcare system. The only true solution is universal, one-payer. It, too, will not be a perfect system, but duh, what is? At least people will get the care they need, and the system will encourage preventative healthcare which the current system does not have any motive to do.
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Posted by: Marcy on Nov 22, 2007 10:02 AM
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Posted by: lamac66 on Nov 22, 2007 11:49 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I like the premise Edwards presents, if they won't pass healthcare legislation they should not benefit from what they have on our dime.
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