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Is the Military Our Last, Best Hope for Averting War with Iran?

By Chris Hedges, Truthdig. Posted November 13, 2007.


When military command is the voice of reason in a debate about a new war, you know our democracy is in trouble.

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The last, best hope for averting a war with Iran lies with the United States military. The Democratic Congress, cowed by the Israel lobby and terrified of appearing weak on defense before the presidential elections, will do nothing to halt an attack. The media, especially the electronic press, is working overtime to whip up fear of a nuclear Iran and tar Tehran with abetting attacks against American troops in Iraq. The American public is complacent, unsure of what to believe, knocked off balance by fear and passive. We will be saved or doomed by our generals.


The last wall of defense that prevents the Bush administration from targeting Iran, an attack that could ignite a regional conflagration and usher in apocalyptic scenarios in the Middle East, runs through the offices of Secretary of Defense Robert Gates; Adm. William Fallon , the head of the Central Command (CENTCOM); and Gen. George Casey, the Army's new chief of staff. These three figures in the defense establishment have told George W. Bush and the Congress how depleted the U.S. military has become, that it cannot manage another conflict, and that a war with Iran would make the war with Iraq look like an act of prudence and common sense.


The reliance on the military command, however, to be the voice of reason in the debate about a new war is not a healthy sign for our deteriorating democracy. Compliant generals can always be found to carry out the Dr. Strangelove designs of a mad White House. Those who resist implementing decisions can easily be removed. The protective cover provided by these figures in the defense establishment could vanish.


The United States is able to launch a massive and devastating air attack on Iran's military installations. It can obliterate the Iranian air force. It can cripple if not dismantle effective communications and military command and control. It can destroy some of Iran's underground nuclear facilities. But our intelligence inside Iran, as was true in Iraq, is uneven. We do not know where all of Iran's nuclear facilities are. And it is probable that an Iranian response against American targets, such as the Green Zone in Iraq, as well as Iranian-sponsored terrorist attacks on American soil, would follow. Shiites in the region would interpret an attack as a war on the Shiite community and would unleash unrest, terrorism and violence against us and our allies from Lebanon to Pakistan.


The battle is between the Cheney camp, which would like to carry out strikes on Iran before Bush leaves office, and Gates and his senior generals. Cheney, who has always been able to push aside the feckless Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, is having a tougher time with the military. Fallon, for example, was successful in his attempt to block efforts by Cheney to move a third aircraft carrier into the Persian Gulf earlier this year and bluntly said that "there would be no war against Iran" as long as he was chief of CENTCOM.


Gen. Casey informed Congress this fall that the Army was "out of balance" and added: "The demand for our forces exceeds the sustainable supply. We are consumed with meeting the demands of the current fight, and are unable to provide ready forces as rapidly as necessary for other potential contingencies."


This White House has a habit of dismissing recalcitrant generals. Gen. Eric Shinseki, when he was chief of staff of the Army, ended his career when he told the U.S. Senate Armed Services Committee on the eve of the war in Iraq that "something in the order of several hundred thousand soldiers" would probably be required for postwar Iraq. Gen. Peter Pace also ran afoul of the White House and was not nominated for a second term as chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff when he publicly defied Donald Rumsfeld. At a press conference in November 2005 he stood next to Rumsfeld as the secretary of defense asserted that "the United States does not have a responsibility" to prevent torture by Iraqi officials. Pace pointedly disagreed with Rumsfeld, saying, "It is the absolute responsibility of every U.S. service member, if they see inhumane treatment being conducted, to intervene, to stop it." Pace also openly dismissed White House claims that Iran was supplying weapons and explosively formed penetrators to Iraqi insurgents. He too was shown the door.


The White House, isolated and reviled at home and abroad, believes it is on a higher mission to save the world from itself. The instability in the Middle East could undermine Gates and his generals. A limited Israeli strike on suspected Iranian nuclear production facilities, currently under discussion in Jerusalem, could trigger retaliatory strikes by Iran on Israel and U.S. targets in Iraq and the Persian Gulf.  The clamor for revenge, fueled by a rapacious right-wing media, coupled with our feelings of collective humiliation, could sweep aside all reasoned objections to war with Iran. It happened after the attacks of 2001. It can happen again.


There is a petition circulating that was put together by Marcy Winograd from the Progressive Democrats. The petition is addressed to the Joint Chiefs of Staff and all U.S. military personnel. It urges them to defy orders to attack Iran. It points out that a pre-emptive war with Iran is a war crime under international law. It reminds military personnel of the statute in the Army Field Manual 27-10, Section 609, and Uniform Code of Military Justice, Article 92, that states: "A general order or regulation is lawful unless it is contrary to the Constitution, the law of the United States. ..."


The petition notes that any provision of an international treaty ratified by the United States becomes the law of the United States. The United States is a party and signatory to the United Nations Charter, of which Article II, Section 4, states, "All members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state. ..."


Iran has not attacked the United States. The U.S., as a party and signatory to the U.N. charter, would be in clear violation of international law and the laws enshrined in the Constitution if it went to war with Iran. If the citizens and their representatives in Congress refuse to resist and uphold the rule of law, perhaps the military can be prodded to halt our slide into despotism. It is not the best option, but it may be the only one left.


We live now at the mercy of events. A provocation by Iran, aided by a bellicose White House, could plunge us into another war. It could unleash the primitive chant for violence and revenge that rises up from a population that feels vulnerable, uncertain and afraid. There are forces in our society ready and willing to fan the blood lust for a wider circle of war and mayhem. The Iranians, like us, are cursed by their leadership. President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is as primitive, inept and paranoid as George Bush. They are the perfect dance partners for a waltz into Armageddon.


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See more stories tagged with: iran, war, foreign policy, military, department of defense, chris hedges

Chris Hedges, a Pulitzer prize-winning reporter, was the Middle East bureau chief for The New York Times. He spent seven years in the Middle East and reported frequently from Iran. His latest book is American Fascists: The Christian Right and the War on America.

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View:
Sliding Inexorably Towards War with Iran?
Posted by: writerman on Nov 13, 2007 12:25 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Is Chris correct when he informs us that, in reality, it's only the oposition of a handful of unelected generals, that is putting a break on Whitehouse plans to attack Iran?

If he's right, then things are worse than we thought. American democracy is really sick, but is it terminal? Can the system be cured and rise again, or have we slowly changed into a form of "post-democratic" society?

What we're talking about here is the fate of nations and war and peace, being decided by a few very powerful men behind closed doors, with virtually no democratic scrutiny or debate involved. Whilst it's gratifying that there is, apparently, resistance in the US military to yet another war, it's also disturbing, because, in the American system, a bunch of generals are not supposed to stand up to the executive branch! Where does it say that in the Constitution? Is this the kind of checks and balances we want established? Why don't we just let the generals take over the entire government?

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» RE: Sliding Inexorably Towards War with Iran? Posted by: the man with a dog
» You said it, Becky! Posted by: Cathyc
A republic, if you can keep it
Posted by: vox persona on Nov 13, 2007 12:28 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If our fragile democratic republic can just survive the Bush junta, just maybe we can piece the world we are shattering back together. This chickenhawk bunch of cretins and their facilitators/enablers/apologists all share blame, but really it came down to the decisions of president McSmirky, who conveniently escaped combat when it came his time. My Dad, a lifer in the army that saved the world in WWII, a man of few words, said before he died that Bush was using our forces as pawns. This war crime perpetrated on the world has destabilized an entire region and created a generation of potential anti-US jihadists. Our response to 9/11 was disproportional and counterproductive. One military man could have averted this mess (Powell), and thus evaporated his credibility. Now former generals are starting to come forward with criticism, but we need a critical mass to stop this insane administration from plunging ahead. I doubt that many would refuse to obey orders, shoukld the edict be handed down to bomb Iran, but a popular uprising of non-violent protest might get the message across. The only thing that would provoke that amongst a nation of sheeple is a draft, but chimp and his evil henchmen are too crafty for that. After all, that's why they hired a mercenary army. Bu$hCo will need that force when the peasants storm the gates.

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» Thank you. Posted by: Sissi_phus
This comment has been removed from the site due to non-compliance with AlterNet's community policies.
Bush's Warmongering
Posted by: Roy Eidelson on Nov 13, 2007 3:13 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The White House’s propaganda campaign laying the groundwork for military action against Iran dates back almost six years—to Bush’s 2002 State of the Union address in which he designated Iran as a founding member of the “axis of evil.” Since then, this drumbeat has waxed and waned as other concerns—primarily the disastrous invasion and occupation of Iraq—have often commanded center stage. Now, with the Bush administration approaching its final year in office, a renewed push and a shorter fuse are increasingly evident. My 3-minute YouTube video entitled “Forewarned Is Forearmed: Bush On Iran” is available HERE. It offers a very brief but deeply troubling chronicle of the president’s public warmongering and demonization of Iran. As has been said before, “the hour is getting late.”

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Who's the little rightwing criminal ...
Posted by: Robert_Hoogenboom@leftfoot.com.au on Nov 13, 2007 3:31 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
... who is giving the above posts a rating of 1? AlterNet, it should be possible to see who is doing the rating!

Robert Hoogenboom
Sydney, Australia

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» i agree Posted by: KaptainSpiffy
» I Suggest Posted by: ProgressiveManiac
» RE: I Suggest Posted by: Joshua Holland
» doing away with ratings: I'm for it Posted by: counterpoint
» Ditto Posted by: pdxstudent
» RE: Ditto Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: meaningless Posted by: Ripcord
» RE: meaningless Posted by: bcgirl125
» RE: Ditto Posted by: ProgressiveManiac
» RE: Ditto Posted by: Basenjis
Bit more complex...
Posted by: itsthemedication on Nov 13, 2007 3:50 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Well, if you are talking domestically, I guess you could say the generals are the last line of resistance. Internationally though, Russia has shown their displeasure, and most importantly, China is doing a type of reverse economic sanctions on the US by dropping hints about unloading their dollar reserves. It's the precarious state of the economy, brought on by the uncertainty associated with the falling dollar that keeps George in check. He is a puppet of Wall Street, and it's not like happy days are here again for the rapists of America (yes, they were once good capitalists, but those days are over).

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Why are we paralyzed?
Posted by: Urstrly on Nov 13, 2007 4:05 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There is a tool for ridding ourselves of the Strangelovian named Dick Cheney, and it's called impeachment. Yet when Kucinich introduced the motion last week, Democrats shied away. And Clinton has even signed on to the Iranians as terrorists movement. This is just madness. We should be urging Israel's restraint and demanding that our government back off. Imagine how far the money we spend on these misguided military buildups would go toward finding alternative energy sources. But what's good for us is not necessarily good for Halliburton, and there's the rub.

Meanwhile, Musharaff, who has nuclear weapons in place but no oil reserves worth capturing, takes his nation hostage and provides a haven for terrorists, and what does the President say? We can't tolerate your weapons? Of course not. All he can muster is "Take off your uniform, and hold elections," and send him more billions.

When the generals tell us there is no military solution, we, the people, must act.

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» RE: Why are we paralyzed? Posted by: Angel1961
» RE: Why are we paralyzed? Posted by: aonghus36
» RE: Why are we paralyzed? Posted by: Angel1961
Can't somebody do something?
Posted by: packofwolves on Nov 13, 2007 4:38 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is like a nightmare that keeps getting worse and you can't wake up! Our representatives aren't doing anything about a Bush administration that is out of control, the military keeps following insane orders, our constitution is being trampled, our way of life destroyed, and now we're talking about attacking another country...can't somebody do something to get us out from under this insanity before we end up in yet another war, perhaps WWIII? A war, let me remind you, we cannot win and a war we do not have the resources for. How many more of our children will we sacrifice to this insanity? How could we have ever let these miserable little Bush/Cheney bastards get us into such a horrendous mess? IMPEACH CHENEY/BUSH NOW. THEY ARE WAR CRIMINALS/MURDERERS - PROSECUTE THEM AS SUCH.

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Walk in the Iranians' shoes
Posted by: phindrup on Nov 13, 2007 4:41 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Put yourself in the position of the Iranians.
For six years they have been branded 'terrorists', subjected to some level of sanctions and threatened with attack.
This is not some poor little impoverished micro nation that you are trying to push around, and it just happens that they are sitting on one of the worlds biggest deposits of sweet crude, the most valuable commodity in the world today.
1: if you wanted to have nukes, why would stuff around trying to build them? With what they have to offer there would be sellers aplenty.
2: history shows that weapons superiority is matched by a new weapon or tactic that in some way overcomes the advantage. (Remember the knights in armour and the crossbow!)
3: with this much lead time wouldn’t you expect the Iranians to be ready for an attack?
4: why wouldn’t you have bombs, real bombs, cached in some or all of US’s the major cities? Why worry about supper-dooper high tech defences when you can just walk under them?
5: how long could the US hold out without any oil supplies, and how many friends does the US have who are pumping oil?
There are two possibilities. Either countries tremble in terror where the US attack dog descends upon them with threats and reminders that they ought to remember the US’s nuclear capability, or they look on with contempt and put their mind to ways in which to bring it down.
Ask yourself, what would be your response? linked text

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» RE: Walk in the Iranians' shoes Posted by: LouisFallert
Here is the solution for this democracy's survival...
Posted by: djnoll on Nov 13, 2007 5:46 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is really a simple equation. The American people + the American Military = the overthrow of Corporate and Special Interests in our government.

Pack the Congress in 2008 with Independents, not party loyalists, and put into place a strong military leadership with the cajones to stand up to a dictator and exercise their right to refuse an illegal order under US and International law, then it does not matter who is in the White House. Then, the people with the backing of a people's army are once again in control. It does not have to be bloody or violent; can be done in keeping with federal and military law; and it only takes action by the American People.

It is time to take back America, and once that is done it is imperative that we restructure our Constitution and our Government to prevent this kind of insanity from happening ever again.

http://www.standanddeliveramerica.com
See the articles on a new format for government, 1-5; and on changing the face of government from within under the heading "Recent Articles and Postings"

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Absolutely amazing!!!!
Posted by: dsmidiman on Nov 13, 2007 5:46 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It just dumbfounds me how we are as a society here in this good ol US of A. We have a sitting president and vice president who have taken an entire country that had over a trillion dollars in "SURPLUS", crime was down, no major wars, employment was up, the general mood of society was positive and our friends and allies around the world respected us. In seven years these two con artists have scared us into not only spending the surplus but mortgaging us and our children's future away to the tune of billions of dollars, driving our economy into the dumpster causing crime to go up changing the once positive and progressive climate of our citizens into doom and gloom, dividing the citizens of this country like we have not been divided since our Civil War. Using fear to take away or try and take away some of our most important constitutional rights such as the right for a woman to choose whether she gives birth, or the right to our personal privacy. They have gotten us into an unjust war in the Middle East that has caused our image around the world to go from God Fearing Compassionate Super Power to Cult like brutal dictatorship. All this by lying to us and manipulating us using fear, percieved empathy and religion.
Yet these two criminals are still in office!!! Nine years ago we impeached a sitting president who had done more for this country than any president had done in the previous 30 years simply because he lied about something that had nothing to do with performing his job and was nobody's business but his and his wife's. We the people of this country are so eager and willing to point the finger at others when it comes to accepting resposibility for bad choices. We elected these two dictator wannabes not once but TWICE!!!! WE let them lie to us and manipulate our thinking because we were too busy or just didn't care enough to to really get involved and get the facts before we excercised our right to vote. We LET them manipulate us because they used fear, empathy and religion. We have no one to blame but ourselves.......

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» RE: Absolutely amazing!!!! Posted by: ProgressiveManiac
» RE: Absolutely amazing!!!! Posted by: Basenjis
» Canadians would... Posted by: Ethics' Boy
» RE: Absolutely amazing!!!! Posted by: packofwolves
» RE: Absolutely amazing!!!! Posted by: dsmidiman
» RE: Absolutely amazing!!!! Posted by: phindrup
In a word, no
Posted by: sausage on Nov 13, 2007 5:52 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I read this yesterday. And from my experience from working in the federal government, our professional military leaders will in no way, shape or form prevent, deter or stop a carpet-bombing or invasion of Iran should the administration order it.

Why?

Because the highest ranking generals and admirals in the Pentagon, despite all the scrambled eggs and ribbons, are just career, upper-level federal managers. And all they're really worried about is getting their biweekly paycheck, not making waves and staying on the job until retirement. They may grumble about an order. They may think an order from a Cabinet-level political appointee is stupid. But they'll carry it out because they want to retire at the pension-level they think they so richly deserve.

There is one caveat however. Unlike other upper-level federal managers the generals and admirals of the Pentagon have at their disposal the means to overthrow the civilian government, their bosses. Whether we like Bush or not, having General X or Admiral Y as head of our federal government is not something we should take lightly, nor is it an outcome we should want.

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Iran - The Last Nail in the proverbial coffin of the Amerikan Empire
Posted by: PakiBoy on Nov 13, 2007 6:05 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"As revolutionary instruments (when nothing but revolution will cure the evils of the State) [secret societies] are necessary and indispensable, and the right to use them is inalienable by the people." --Thomas Jefferson to William Duane, 1803. FE 8:256

I have been telling my progressive friends in US that they should vote for the most extreme neocon choice for the Presidential and Congressional ill-actions...
And here's why:
Special Interest power is so thoroughly entrenched in the Amerikan government that it needs to be dismantled. There is no democracy in Amerika - It is a 2-party dictatorship where both parties are funded by more or less the same special interest groups.
The electoral system itself is corrupt and cannot be relied upon to bring about the changes that many on this site have expressed.
True change will come only when the US goes through another Depression era like conditions, and a war with Iran will surely expedite the process.

So please, vote for Gulianni (Hillary cannot truly be trusted), and vote often!

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» lol! Posted by: sausage
» Pegboys Posted by: mrcentrist
Willybill
Posted by: WILLYBILLO7 on Nov 13, 2007 6:49 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is your chance to take a stand for your country!



A Ballot for a People’s Referendum


The United States government is broken beyond repair, completely and totally under the control of business and non-responsive to the will of the American Citizen. Our rights guaranteed under the Constitution have been ignored and dissolved. We are engaged in a war that the majority of the People do not support. Our children and Iraqi children are being poisoned with depleted uranium and slaughtered. Our Veterans are being ignored and abused. Innocent Citizens of the World are being tortured under our name. Our environment is being destroyed. Monumental catastrophes in our country have been ignored. The system of elections has been corrupted. Our children are being denied health care. The illegal Federal Reserve System has stolen trillions of dollars from our economy and its laborers. The integrity, honor and spirit of the American People have been forever scarred.

It is long past time to take back this United States from the corporations who have become the government.

It is time to re-establish and refresh the original content and spirit of the Constitution of the United States of America.

This is a call to all True Americans to awaken from the nightmare that pervades our land….to create a new dream…..a dream based on truth, honor, integrity and real equality.

This ballot is the beginning.



DO YOU BELIEVE THIS GOVERNMENT…..EXECUTIVE, LEGISLATIVE AND JUDICIAL SHOULD BE RECALLED…..DISSOLVED AND A NEW GOVERNMENT ELECTED DIRECTLY BY THE AMERICAN PEOPLE?

PLEASE CHECK “YES” OR “NO’


YES____ NO____


Signature____________________

Email Address (optional, but strongly requested)________________________

Postal Address (optional)_______________
___________________________________


Please copy, paste and send to ignotzle@windstream.net

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GollyGee
Posted by: GollyGee on Nov 13, 2007 7:18 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This story seems dated — it could have been written a year or two ago, and doesn't provide much in the way of new info or insights. Events in Turkey and Pakistan have changed the picture since it was written — as have warnings from Russia and China.

Mostly reports of this kind only fan the flames of fear. (Ironically it appears just above a story pointing out the destructiveness of worry.) In that way, it carries water for the Whitehouse by keeping our focus on Iran.

No one doubts Cheney, Bush and the gang are capable of anything, but the continual swagger and threats indicate they are likely using Iran-war talk to shift attention from their monumental failure to do anything — anything — right.

Hedges' prediction on how a war with Iran would play out — we bomb the bejesus out of Iran, destroy it's feeble air force and army, and leave it helpless to respond except in the Green Zone or by terrorist attacks — is the common mainstream media "analysis." It is simply goofy. Iran is not in the same category as the mostly defenseless countries the U.S. has taken on since WWII. It is not Palestine, Lebanon or Syria, and would quite probably take real military action against us.

The kind of government we now have depends on perpetual fear and crisis to hold on to power. Before worry of Iran grows stale they will have come up with something else.

If I am wrong, please heap shame on me.

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common sense
Posted by: grkjr on Nov 13, 2007 7:31 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The potential for war is certainly great. But, it is time for the american people to take the responsiblity for it. By the continued "standing by, do nothing" congress in democratic hands it is now clear that we need another political force or party in this country. It is clear that even the liberal progressive demcocrats of old, though against the war in every effort of funding and support immediate withdrawal, are unwilling to sever their relationship with the new democratic party of today led by the congress woman from calif. So it is up to us, the patriots that are left to make it clear that every democrat who has voted for this war via funding or not getting behind impeachment proceedings or immediate plans for withdrawal will not get our vote. We must stop voting for "the least of the two evils". The difference betwen the democatic party of today and the republicans is too marginal and the consequesces to our democracy too great to stand by and continue with such a voting philosophy. The ideal of this throwing away your vote is no longer applicable given the choices before us. If we are to hit bottom at least it will be not out of u,s the public, standing by and watching it happen by default. I for one would greatly appreicate a hit list of all deocrats who have not voted for all the meansure neceassary for us to get out of this war and have permitted the continued onslaught of our constitution by not voting for impeachment.

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What they say, and what they do
Posted by: outlander55 on Nov 13, 2007 8:06 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Casey and Fallon do not make the final decisions. It is all so complex, but when it comes down to it, they will follow orders of the "Decider", the Psycho in Chief.
If you think there are no back channel discussions with Isreal, then you need to get with reality. The United States will not attack first. Isreal will most likely strike first and of course, Bush will run to their aid in the form of massive air strikes to protect our ally from destruction. Don't be suprised if a couple of Nuclear weapons are used. Those air strikes will be a disaster for our troops in Iraq and Afghanistan. How, you might ask? Simple. Americans are dispised in the region by Muslims and an attack on Iran will cement an alliance of those Muslims to do away with America in the Middle East. Our troops will suffer greatly.
The neo-cons are trying to perpetuate Armeggedon and an attack on Iran may just cause a war that will spread through out the Middle East. The destruction will be the "End Times" for this region of the world. And our troops currently in Iraq will be so out numbered that our technology may not be enough to save them.
This is what we get for taking Impeachment "off the table". Congress is to blame for being an enabler for the President to run rough shod and do as he pleases with no oversight. Don't blame just Bush and Cheney. Blame those Democrats who enable them to shred the Constitution and claim that they are above the laws that we cherish. It makes me sad to see that the only sane person in Congress is made fun of and ridiculed for wanting the White House to face the justice that they swore to uphold.

Good night and good luck....

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The Military the best option against war with Iran??
Posted by: jcstras on Nov 13, 2007 8:29 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I guess Hillary would be better?? come on... give me a break!!!

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Due diligence...
Posted by: Ethics' Boy on Nov 13, 2007 8:38 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As long as the majority has some food to put on the dinner table and ample entertainment feeds to think of something else, NOTHING IS BEING DONE TO RIGHT THESE WRONGS!

As a Canadian, I feel like a brother to the US nation and am very sad to see your W.H. dominate an evil empire (that's what it is);
As an observer, I feel that the real criminals, in the end, are the ones who let these aberrations take place by re-electing such a fool as Bush (between two good Hollywood movies... and the proven lies of Bush towards WMDs!!!).

WAKE UP CITIZENS!
REMOVE THE GUY FROM HIS OFFICE!
GET ORGANIZED AND GET OUT IN THE STREETS!
But then, when you get back to your rightful place as citizens, DON'T MAKE THE SAME MISTAKES AGAIN!!!

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What army?
Posted by: frantaylor on Nov 13, 2007 8:41 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We don't have one left! We've chewed up all our gear and demoralized all our troops. Stateside, the Army National Guard appears to be obsessed with parking what little gear they have left in public sight. Maybe it's to reassure us that we still have some stuff left, but the pathetic little display of hummers and other trucks leads me to believe that we are going to be in a world of hurt when there's another natural disaster. Another war? Unimaginable.

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Other ways
Posted by: rocketman on Nov 13, 2007 9:02 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There is no doubt that Iran is supplying weapons etc to Iraqi 'insurgents" etc to use against American troops. While that cannot be condoned and should not be allowed to go unchecked so long as we are keeping our troops there, there are other ways of halting this other than all out war.

War with Iran itself wouldn't be beyond our military capabilities but it makes nosense, lacks moral purpose and brings us into confrontation with Russia and China as they would love for nothing more than to see us destroy ourselves in such a folly.

The world has had enough of "war". There has to be a better way. The best we can do is extract ourselves from Iraq, try to leave their government intact and say goodbye.

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» RE: Other ways,other views Posted by: rocketman
» RE: It is a War Crime Posted by: rocketman
Trying to understand
Posted by: dbowlus on Nov 13, 2007 9:25 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm not an eloquent writer so I hesitate to post my comments but I feel compelled to try.

I have been a pro-Israeli person as the Jewish people have struggled to establish a place in the world and to end the persecution they have endured throughout history. But the picture seems to have changed dramatically. The radical Zionists appear to have penetrated United States government at all levels. Even the newly appointed Attorney General appears to be an avid Zionist. Certainly the Democratic Party (and Joe Lieberman) is controlled by Zionists interests. This would account for the failure of the new Democratic majority to counter Bush's assaults in the Mideast. It is not their fear of Bush, but their compliance with Zionist policy that accounts for their tolerance of the administration's insane actions against the Muslim nations. VP Cheney's megalomaniacal ambitions coupled with the Zionists' desire to expand the power and territory of Israel have led us into our criminal actions in the Mideast.

Those of you who have a better background than I please correct me if my thinking is off base. We need the help of good thinkers all around the world if we are to escape the disastrous course we are now on.

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» RE: Trying to understand Posted by: Hans B
Maybe Hillary is the best option after all...ugh...
Posted by: sausage on Nov 13, 2007 9:32 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm combining a couple of replies I made to other posters plus my original post In a word, no to hopefully bring a little sanity, or insanity, to the discussion.

Several posters seem to think a military coup will somehow save our constitutional democractic-republcian form of government. It won't.

The military is no longer beholden to the American people or its civilian bosses in the White House or Congress. It is beholden these days, thanks in large measure to the late Milton J. Friedman, Richard Nixon and a singular alliance of the antiwar New Left and conservative Republicans, only to itself, the All Volunteer Force.

And and 1999 study by Duke University professors Paul Gronke and Peter D. Feaver found: "Military elite officers, far more than elite civilians, are prone to view civilian society as troubled and in need of reform. Elite military officers, far more than elite civilians, are prone to think that civilian society can be repaired if only military values were more widely accepted." Nothing very "democratic" there.

Moreover high military rank is the instant gateway into the corporate boardroom. Former Cheif of Joint Staffs General Richard Meyers sets on Northrop Gruman's board. And Democratic "hero", General Wesley Clark, is now chairman and CEO of Wesley K. Clark & Associates, a strategic advisory and consulting firm, serves on the boards of several private corporations and non-profit organizations[.]"

Anyway, beneath all the scrambled eggs and ribbons, Pentagon generals and admirals are nothing but professional federal bureaucrats, unwilling to rock the boat if it threatens their pension. So if Bush/Cheney wants to carpet bomb Iran they will let the administration have its way.

And since the Pentagon bigwigs and the corporocracy are incestuously intwined why should they want to thwart Bush in any way, shape or form? The reason the U.S. will not go to war with Iran is becuase it could lead to a stock market collapse. Even a dumbass like Bush understands that.

The corporocracy that really rules this country was burned by Bush and his Neocon cronies. The looting of Iraq didnot result in riches beyond Bill Gates' wildest dreams of averice. So Wall Street has soured on the Republicans and seek an emollient. Hillary is that emollient. The unwashed masses want change, Hillary's a woman, and a Clinton--What's more different from a Bush than a Clinton!--therefore she'll soothe the savage breast of middle America. Believe me, a Clinton will be forwarded mail at 1600 Pennsylvania Av after January 20, 2009.

Really, Americans seemingly have a limitless propensity for taking it up the ass (arse for our Commonwealth friends) and, like the British public school boy, asking, "Please, sir, another."

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Israel behind it all
Posted by: Nick on Nov 13, 2007 9:33 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This government is playing a Zionist violin.
There will be no peace, untill countries neighboring Israel got
nuclear weapons

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» RE: Israel behind it all Posted by: aonghus36
our first vice-president
Posted by: yvonnecarroll on Nov 13, 2007 9:46 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
John Adams, an attorney, later our First Vice-President, believed in the rule of law so adamantly that he defended the British soldiers who were involved in the Boston Massacre. He believed every person had the right to due process. This is WHY he was chosen to serve as General George Washington's right hand man and successor. I wonder what he would think of Dick Cheney.

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Best Hope is a Severe United States Recession
Posted by: US Citizen on Nov 13, 2007 9:48 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Perhaps the best hope for preventing a massive attack by the United States against Iran is a full-scale ecinomic recession in the Uninted States due to huge oil price increases and a continuing weakening American dollar. I believe the world is working in this direction to head off United States aggression. Only this way will the American people realize that there is a severe cost for military aggression.

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War with Iran
Posted by: Romantic Violence on Nov 13, 2007 9:58 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I believe it is dangerous for 'democratic republics' to rely upon the military as the voice of the people; aren't these and paramilitary forces i.e. the police and others, subject to civilian authority? Bush and his crew just inherited these policies from previous administrations that did the same in regard to foreign policy. Look at Clinton, who bombed pharm plants in Africa under the pretext of WMD? Didn't Clinton bury the last of social and human services for people in need in favor of allowing corporations a free hand to tax exemption loopholes a.k.a. corporate welfare? Bush however just turbocharged these policies under the War on Terror. We, the People, need to stop buying into everything touted before us as truth and use the little remaining powers that we have instead of relying on warmongers, generals, to stop perpetuating wars. GENERAL STRIKE Just think what would happen if NOBODY WENT TO WORK FOR A WEEK and BOUGHT NOTHING The MTA strike of NY lasted for 3 days, proper, and paralyzed the city. So, therefore, look no further. We are in control of what happens. Not a presidential administration. "The People need no leaders". Augusto Sandino

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» RE: War with Iran Posted by: WitchyNy
Combat Vets vs Chickenhawks
Posted by: NoPCZone on Nov 13, 2007 10:38 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
No sane soldier that has ever seen combat is a warmonger.

Take a look at who has pushed the wars we are in and who is opposing it. The war pimps are almost exclusively people who have never served and have no family serving.

Now take a look at who is opposing the war. A significant number are veterans of wars current and past. They know how ugly war is and the personal price of war.

That ought to tell you all you really need to know.

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non-violent resistance
Posted by: craiteri on Nov 13, 2007 10:51 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The only way those of us who hope to save this country can get the attention of the junta that has taken control is through non-violent resistance, and that doesn't mean standing on a street corner holding up anti-bush signs, or even joining thousands in peaceful marches. We must hit them in the only place they can feel it - the pocket. We must resist paying that part of our taxes that finances this fascist government. That, of course, would mean being labeled "enemy combatants" and going to prison. How many of us are willing to do that?

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Alternet-we all KNOW this already-
Posted by: WitchyNy on Nov 13, 2007 11:12 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
this topic -that article-this issue-that issue-this perspective-or that-we GOT IT already. What we sure don't need is the MILITARY taking over.

The war is wrong. Bush is insane. Corporations are taking over the world. Rich Oil people are in charge. They don't care about the environment-or the average American. Or the world.

Now what? How do we get mainstream America to wake up?
How do we organize?

Michael Moore says he likes Gore. Well I trust Michael Moore but I don't know if I trust Gore. "Better than Bush"---isn't good enough-that is what we got with the present Democrat sell out. Gore/Kuchinch-sounds OK -I guess. Maybe Mike can convince me.

But even if we try again-how do we know the voting machines are legit? I KNOW they are not-I was a poll watcher last election.

We need to ORGANIZE. My grandparents were in the General Strike in Seattle in 1917. Today history books often call it a failure-but it scared the SHIT out of the government!

Alternet-So how do we organize? Why don't you start posting some articles on THAT? Town by town-state by state.

Maybe we could make up computer lists-state by state-town by town. Hell the feds and corporations have all our personal information already anyway.

Everyone from each state could post their email address/towns here. Go from there. Alternet could send it out-state by state. Maybe we could organize under Kucinich or Green Party.
What we don't need is yet another group that is going to sell out and be 'moderate and compromise'.

We need to get rid of Big Corporations. Small business only. Everything worker owned.
Women's rights.
End of slavery-yes we still have it-it is just now called poverty.
No more school loans--free college for everyone. We could EASILY fund this by ending the war.
Put the military and the college kids to work building small solar green homes-farms- for everyone. People can not organize when they are losing their homes.

You know what-these are all the things Thomas Jefferson wanted. Thomas Jefferson was a Communist! There is a bumper sticker for ya!

Somehow we need to educate the American people.
Organize and Educate. That is what we all should be talking about now. We are all leaders.

WitchyNY
Nylene W Schoellhorn
Northern Nevada
nylene@sbcglobal.net

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» RE: Alternet-we all KNOW this already- Posted by: Romantic Violence
Good going, Hillary!
Posted by: mrcentrist on Nov 13, 2007 11:29 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Isn't is great how Hillary has given Bush the green light to bomb Iran? If she becomes President (not likely), she might be just as likely to bomb the stuffing out of the little purring Persians as the Shrub was. Yikes!

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» I doubt this. Posted by: yellow
» RE: I doubt this. Posted by: mrcentrist
» RE: I doubt this. Posted by: yellow
» RE: I doubt this. Posted by: bcgirl125
War with Iran..........
Posted by: karim29007 on Nov 13, 2007 12:08 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
THE CANCEROUS ENEMY WITHIN.
--------------------------------------
We all know when something happens, always there is a reason and a motive behind it..
So what has taken place during these last few years?

There were skermishes around BUT with the necessary remedies on hand.

Gradually Reagan Justice Department helped to develop and implement the "unitary executive " which constrained the role for Congress in regulating the executive branch.

At the same time the military budget was pushed to the limit to expand for no given justification.

So WHAT "WAS" ON THE AGENDA?

Well we all know now!

Militerism, dominaton and hence expading the EMPIRE!

Has America been the beneficiary of the said plans and its application?
The answer is a resounding NO.

WHY?
Once upon a time the nation, the land of free and the home of brave, but that was once up on a time, NOW;
-Punishing any kind of dissent, circumventing the law, concealment the workings of the government in secrecy, and the use of litigator's gifts to obstruct mechanisms of oversight and accountability.

-Subverting the system of checks and balances as a matter of ideology or routine,
and scorn for the separation of powers.
-The disappearence of the CONSTITUTION.
-appointments of yes-men,
And the list can go on and on..........

Meanwhile THOUSANDS OF AMERICANS, SEVERAL HUNDRED THOUSANDS OF IRAQIS AND MANY THOUSANDS AFGHANS HAVE LOST THEIR LIVES, so far.
-American abroad pretend to be Canadians, YOU guessed right, we are the most hated nation.

So, who has been ripping of the benefits?
Just look around you and you do not have to go too far.

The answer: THE ZIONIST ENTITY.

They were installed in the middle of arab's home lands and now through wars, and genocides has become the most powerful entity in the region armed to their blood-dripping teeth including several hundreds of NUCLER WEAPONS, ALL AS GIFT-WRAPPED OF THEIR AMERICAN SUBSIDIRIES.

HOW did they manage to achive that?
A well organized nation-wide network of ZIONISTS WITH MONEY.
They bought the corrupt pliticions and disposed of those that could not be bought.

ZIONISM IS THE CAUSE AND WHAT WE ARE WITNESSING NOW ARE THE SYMPTOMS.

AIPAC and the rest of the ZIONISTS NETWORK IN AMERICA MUST BE STOPPED, and until then the AMERICANS, IRAQIS , AFGHAS AND OTHERS CONTINUE TO DIE WITH THE ON GOING OF PALESTINIAN'S GENOCIDE.

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» ...sorry, but I have to ask Posted by: Sissi_phus
» RE: War with Iran.......... Posted by: cndpeace
Bush and Cheney HAVE to attack Iran
Posted by: Sissi_phus on Nov 13, 2007 2:14 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They simply have to! Otherwise they will have wasted all that (borrowed) taxpayer money they spent on setting up the perfect pincer movement.

I mean, come on! When you were a kid did you ever spend ages setting up dominoes - and then walk away without tipping the first one so you could watch them all fall?

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Has anyone else thought about this idea yet?
Posted by: Sissi_phus on Nov 13, 2007 3:12 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I was just able to see through my cynicism for a moment and had an idea. I don't know if it's an original one - apologies if it's not - but I like that some people here are calling for ideas.

Going back to the Vietnam War and the mass protests that were held at the time - I've read that the soldiers who fought in Vietnam were very publicly and very badly shamed by the protesters and especially by those who organised those protests.

I don't want to get into what the soldiers did to outrage the progressive leaders of the day. I (hope) we're all progressive enough here to know that the individual soldiers themselves were victims of that terrible war too.

So my question is this; Have any of those prominent progressive leaders of the time made a public apology to those soldiers whose ostracism they so successfully encouraged?

I'm not asking if you personally believe they ought to apologise - I just want to know if it's been done before. If it has, how long ago? Was it widely reported? Where can I find out about it?



Cynicism won't help. Ideas will. The more the better.

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Hot, cool, chilled, chillier, cold and ... downright freezing!
Posted by: talkville on Nov 13, 2007 6:50 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Even the question as posed by Chris Hedge's title ought to at least wriggle or jog or jar some long-forgotten warning light or bell in the recesses of our brains. Are we left with what can only be a FAITH that there are decent, rational, reasonable individuals in our STANDING and PERMANENT Military sector??

Only today, one of the news channel (MSM) showed a clip of this Grand Inquisitor President of the USA making a statement, which I can only paraphrase (as unlike others my memory is not eidetic or perfect). Mr Bush stated on television, in front of not only domestic but global media this proposition: that we must not tell the Military what they ought or not do, but that we must let the Military tell US what ought to be done.

Please, please, please, somebody... think about this proposition!!! It seems to me that I recall something, some little boring, trivial part in some long forgotten and boring history class in elementary school that had to do with civilian control of the military or something to that effect!

Perhaps, as those of Mr Bush's class constantly tell me, I'm mis-informed and just wrong and indoctrinated or something. Must be. And here it's Autumn, and there's a very chilly wind blowing in from somewhere; one of those 'bone shaking' edges to it. Our sexy, seductive current god, Technology, has managed to perform a miracle -- gathering together a Trinity: business, military and civil (e.g. the Military Industrial Complex) into a single Unity; no longer can any lines of demarcation be distinguished; Leviathan arises, sleek and smooth, a technological marvel if ever there was one!

All hail the Soldier-Businessman!

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Surly Old Man
Posted by: bikesnbach on Nov 13, 2007 8:33 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Well, if bush bombs Iran you can expect the price of your gasoline to go up to $8.00 per gallon and home heating and electrical costs to double or triple. Iran might decide to start a ground war in Irag to "free" the Shiites; that would be a lot of fun.
China and Russia both have strong ties to Iran. China can bankrupt the United States by selling dollars and treasury notes. Russia is likely to say "you bomb Iran, you bomb us". Then we could have another friendly nuclear standoff.
People might want to remember that WW 1 and 2 started
with countries honoring mutual defense treaties.

ksc
Denver

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ehsan saeed
Posted by: ehsan on Nov 13, 2007 10:41 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When the American leadership is so frightfully arrogant and when their effective election support is,not the american people but the Israeli lobby who are much paranoid living among people they have chosen to forcibly inhabit after migrating from persecution in Europe,US Administration cant be expected to take peaceful course for resolving any issue. War and violence is the favourite choice of this freak relationship.It also suits the oil and war related corporate giants who are the major funding source in US elections.

So,notwithstanding the historical fact that the Jews have lived and still do live peacefully in Iran,the US must give the dog(Iran) a bad (WMD) name and hang him.

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Stop Shopping
Posted by: machaventia on Nov 14, 2007 6:04 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We have stopped shopping at non-American companies..such as WalMart, Major Importers Outlets and detached from the power grid dependant on feeding the oil companies...alternative fuels are being integrated as we convert the last reminder of whom we serve as well. This takes over $3,000. a month out of the expectant hands of the prostitutes of commerce, limits taxation incomes to profligates and means our incomes have been diverted to American infrastructure, from the farm to table....a bit more planning and work, but do-able for anyone who gives a damn.
Try it...

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» RE: Stop Shopping..."WE" are not Posted by: Captainmagic
War in Iran? Nah!
Posted by: Col. Jackleg on Nov 14, 2007 8:12 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I used to think that stupidity was reversible, the Bush/Cheney crowd has persuaded me otherwise. I used to think that crime doesn't pay, but it does and it pays real good. I used to think that government of, by and for the people is the mission statement for a free and democratic society, but I don't feel that way any more. I used to think that doing good and avoiding evil [Christ's "Beaititudes" from the Sermon on the Mount] should influence all mankind, but even Christ has been proselyted and the words are empty. I used to think that working men and women of the world are its heartbeat and deserving of our full support and encouragement, but sweatshops and outsourcing are preferred. I used to think that it was possible to sit down with your neighbor and discuss events in ways that could bring us together and find a common cause, now I use double deadbolts. I used to think that it was man's destiny to help his fellow man, to lift him up and ennoble him and help him when he is down, now its better to call him a bum and an idler. I used to watch TV, but Newton Minnow was spot on when he called it "a vast wasteland." I amuse myself on the internet, or do I....it seems I have been blogged. Oh well, liquor is still plentiful and my golf game is superb. That's enough to keep me going. Selah!

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Robert
Posted by: RMC on Nov 14, 2007 8:14 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Everything in Hedges article is about giving in and giving up. It is out of our hands, he seems to be saying.

It isn't.

Every reader has a US Representative and two US Senators. E-mail notes to them on your position about Iran is the easiest way to weigh in since this country was established. The problem is not with who will make the decision regarding Iran, but the people who want to comment and complain rather than take action. It's a democracy, you have to participate for it to work.

No guarantees your efforts will succeed, but you have to try.

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» RE: obert Posted by: Bright Penny
if you want a war, do it right
Posted by: eosrk on Nov 14, 2007 8:41 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
blow everything up, then rebuild it, as they did in wwI and wwII

Doing an half-ass job won't do warhawks, espically since you not following the UN and the rest of humanity anyway.

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Stupid Humans
Posted by: osd on Nov 16, 2007 1:53 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The stupidity and greed of humans. The constant need to control and rule the world. If we don't learn soon, this world and humans will not survive. 2,000 years of control and this is the best that men can do?

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