Home
Archive
Newsletters
Video
Blogs
Discuss
About
Search
Donate
Advertise

15 Reasons to Stop Hiding from Vegetarianism

Vegetarian Times. Posted October 25, 2007.


Live longer, lower your weight, slash pollution and twelve other good reasons to start cutting meat out of your diet.

Share and save this post:

      

      

Share on Facebook       

AlterNet Social Networks:
follow us on twitter
find us on Facebook

In Special Coverage

Belief:
Are the "New Atheists" As Bad as Christian Fundamentalists?
Frank Schaeffer

Corporate Accountability and WorkPlace:
How a Public Jobs Program Could Put America Back on Track
Julianne Malveaux

DrugReporter:
Pot Is More Mainstream Than Ever, So Why Is Legalization Still Taboo?
Steven Wishnia

Environment:
Why We Need Bees and More People Becoming Organic Beekeepers
Makenna Goodman

Food:
The Raw Milk Revolution: Behind America's Emerging Battle Over Food Rights
Makenna Goodman

Health and Wellness:
New York May Stop Heartless Health Insurers from Dropping Coverage When It Stops Being Profitable
William Ehart

Immigration:
NYC Marathon Raises Question of Who Is American Enough?
James E. Johnson, Jr.

Media and Technology:
Focusing on Fort Hood Killer's Beliefs Is an Easy Out to Avoid the Deeper Reasons for the Massacre
Mark Ames

Movie Mix:
The Yes Men: Pranksters Out to Fix the World
Mark Engler

Politics:
What Michelle and Barack's Marriage Has in Common with 56 Million Other Ones
Annabelle Gurwitch

Reproductive Justice and Gender:
Fetus-Shaped Potatoes? Going Undercover Inside the Weird World of Right-Wing Abortion Foes
Ann Neumann

Rights and Liberties:
"My Kids Want to Hide Their Identity; They're Scared Someone Will Attack Us": U.S. Muslims Being Targeted
Jaisal Noor

Sex and Relationships:
Instant Sex: Has the Digital Age Destroyed Relationships or Made Them Better?
Vanessa Richmond

Take Action:
G-20 Meetings: Nothing Much Happened in the Suites, and There Was Too Much Punch in the Streets
Laura Flanders

Water:
Why Natural Gas Is Not a Clean Energy Panacea
Stan Cox

World:
With Unemployment at 40 Percent, Afghan Teens Enlist in Army, Police
Lal Aqa Sherin

Advertisement
Upcoming AlterNet stories on Digg

People are drawn to vegetarianism by all sorts of motives. Some of us want to live longer, healthier lives or do our part to reduce pollution. Others have made the switch because we want to preserve Earth's natural resources or because we've always loved animals and are ethically opposed to eating them.

Thanks to an abundance of scientific research that demonstrates the health and environmental benefits of a plant-based diet, even the federal government recommends that we consume most of our calories from grain products, vegetables and fruits. And no wonder: An estimated 70 percent of all diseases, including one-third of all cancers, are related to diet. A vegetarian diet reduces the risk for chronic degenerative diseases such as obesity, coronary artery disease, high blood pressure, diabetes and certain types of cancer including colon, breast, prostate, stomach, lung and esophageal cancer.

Why go veg? Chew on these reasons:

1. You'll ward off disease. Vegetarian diets are more healthful than the average American diet, particularly in preventing, treating or reversing heart disease and reducing the risk of cancer. A low-fat vegetarian diet is the single most effective way to stop the progression of coronary artery disease or prevent it entirely. Cardiovascular disease kills 1 million Americans annually and is the leading cause of death in the United States. But the mortality rate for cardiovascular disease is lower in vegetarians than in nonvegetarians, says Joel Fuhrman, MD, author of Eat to Live: The Revolutionary Formula for Fast and Sustained Weight Loss. A vegetarian diet is inherently healthful because vegetarians consume no animal fat and less cholesterol and instead consume more fiber and more antioxidant-rich produce -- another great reason to listen to Mom and eat your veggies!

2. You'll keep your weight down. The standard American diet -- high in saturated fats and processed foods and low in plant-based foods and complex carbohydrates -- is making us fat and killing us slowly. According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and a division of the CDC, the National Center for Health Statistics, 64 percent of adults and 15 percent of children aged 6 to 19 are overweight and are at risk of weight-related ailments including heart disease, stroke and diabetes. A study conducted from 1986 to 1992 by Dean Ornish, MD, president and director of the Preventive Medicine Research Institute in Sausalito, California, found that overweight people who followed a low-fat, vegetarian diet lost an average of 24 pounds in the first year and kept off that weight 5 years later. They lost the weight without counting calories or carbs and without measuring portions or feeling hungry.

3. You'll live longer. If you switch from the standard American diet to a vegetarian diet, you can add about 13 healthy years to your life, says Michael F. Roizen, MD, author of The RealAge Diet: Make Yourself Younger with What You Eat. "People who consume saturated, four-legged fat have a shorter life span and more disability at the end of their lives. Animal products clog your arteries, zap your energy and slow down your immune system. Meat eaters also experience accelerated cognitive and sexual dysfunction at a younger age."

Want more proof of longevity? Residents of Okinawa, Japan, have the longest life expectancy of any Japanese and likely the longest life expectancy of anyone in the world, according to a 30-year study of more than 600 Okinawan centenarians. Their secret: a low-calorie diet of unrefined complex carbohydrates, fiber-rich fruits and vegetables, and soy.

4. You'll build strong bones. When there isn't enough calcium in the bloodstream, our bodies will leach it from existing bone. The metabolic result is that our skeletons will become porous and lose strength over time. Most health care practitioners recommend that we increase our intake of calcium the way nature intended -- through foods. Foods also supply other nutrients such as phosphorus, magnesium and vitamin D that are necessary for the body to absorb and use calcium.

People who are mildly lactose-intolerant can often enjoy small amounts of dairy products such as yogurt, cheese and lactose-free milk. But if you avoid dairy altogether, you can still get a healthful dose of calcium from dry beans, tofu, soymilk and dark green vegetables such as broccoli, kale, collards and turnip greens.

5. You'll reduce your risk of food-borne illnesses. The CDC reports that food-borne illnesses of all kinds account for 76 million illnesses a year, resulting in 325,000 hospitalizations and 5,000 deaths in the United States. According to the US Food and Drug Administration (FDA), foods rich in protein such as meat, poultry, fish and seafood are frequently involved in food-borne illness outbreaks.

6. You'll ease the symptoms of menopause. Many foods contain nutrients beneficial to perimenopausal and menopausal women. Certain foods are rich in phytoestrogens, the plant-based chemical compounds that mimic the behavior of estrogen. Since phytoestrogens can increase and decrease estrogen and progesterone levels, maintaining a balance of them in your diet helps ensure a more comfortable passage through menopause. Soy is by far the most abundant natural source of phytoestrogens, but these compounds also can be found in hundreds of other foods such as apples, beets, cherries, dates, garlic, olives, plums, raspberries, squash and yams. Because menopause is also associated with weight gain and a slowed metabolism, a low-fat, high-fiber vegetarian diet can help ward off extra pounds.

7. You'll have more energy. Good nutrition generates more usable energy -- energy to keep pace with the kids, tackle that home improvement project or have better sex more often, Michael F. Roizen, MD, says in The RealAge Diet. Too much fat in your bloodstream means that arteries won't open properly and that your muscles won't get enough oxygen. The result? You feel zapped. Balanced vegetarian diets are naturally free of cholesterol-laden, artery-clogging animal products that physically slow us down and keep us hitting the snooze button morning after morning. And because whole grains, legumes, fruits and vegetables are so high in complex carbohydrates, they supply the body with plenty of energizing fuel.

8. You'll be more "regular." Eating a lot of vegetables necessarily means consuming more fiber, which pushes waste out of the body. Meat contains no fiber. People who eat lower on the food chain tend to have fewer instances of constipation, hemorrhoids and diverticulitis.

9. You'll help reduce pollution. Some people become vegetarians after realizing the devastation that the meat industry is having on the environment. According to the US Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), chemical and animal waste runoff from factory farms is responsible for more than 173,000 miles of polluted rivers and streams. Runoff from farmlands is one of the greatest threats to water quality today. Agricultural activities that cause pollution include confined animal facilities, plowing, pesticide spraying, irrigation, fertilizing and harvesting.

10. You'll avoid toxic chemicals. The EPA estimates that nearly 95 percent of the pesticide residue in the typical American diet comes from meat, fish and dairy products. Fish, in particular, contain carcinogens (PCBs, DDT) and heavy metals (mercury, arsenic, lead, cadmium) that can't be removed through cooking or freezing. Meat and dairy products can also be laced with steroids and hormones, so be sure to read the labels on the dairy products you purchase.

11. You'll help reduce famine. About 70 percent of all grain produced in the United States is fed to animals raised for slaughter. The 7 billion livestock animals in the United States consume five times as much grain as is consumed directly by the American population. "If all the grain currently fed to livestock were consumed directly by people, the number of people who could be fed would be nearly 800 million," says David Pimentel, professor of ecology at Cornell University. If the grain were exported, it would boost the US trade balance by $80 billion a year.

12. You'll spare animals. Many vegetarians give up meat because of their concern for animals. Ten billion animals are slaughtered for human consumption each year. And, unlike the farms of yesteryear where animals roamed freely, today most animals are factory farmed -- crammed into cages where they can barely move and fed a diet tainted with pesticides and antibiotics. These animals spend their entire lives in crates or stalls so small that they can't even turn around. Farmed animals are not protected from cruelty under the law -- in fact, the majority of state anticruelty laws specifically exempt farm animals from basic humane protection.

13. You'll save money. Meat accounts for 10 percent of Americans' food spending. Eating vegetables, grains and fruits in place of the 200 pounds of beef, chicken and fish each nonvegetarian eats annually would cut individual food bills by an average of $4,000 a year.

14. Your dinner plate will be full of color. Disease-fighting phytochemicals give fruits and vegetables their rich, varied hues. They come in two main classes: carotenoids and anthocyanins. All rich yellow and orange fruits and vegetables -- carrots, oranges, sweet potatoes, mangoes, pumpkins, corn -- °©owe their color to carotenoids. Leafy green vegetables also are rich in carotenoids but get their green color from chlorophyll. Red, blue and purple fruits and vegetables -- plums, cherries, red bell peppers -- contain anthocyanins. Cooking by color is a good way to ensure you're eating a variety of naturally occurring substances that boost immunity and prevent a range of illnesses.

15. It's a breeze. It's almost effortless these days to find great-tasting and good-for-you vegetarian foods, whether you're strolling the aisles of your local supermarket or walking down the street at lunchtime. If you need inspiration in the kitchen, look no further than the Internet, your favorite bookseller or your local vegetarian society's newsletter for culinary tips and great recipes. And if you're eating out, almost any ethnic restaurant will offer vegetarian selections. In a hurry? Most fast food and fast casual restaurants now include healthful and inventive salads, sandwiches and entrées on their menus.

Digg!    Share on facebook   submit to reddit    Bookmark on Delicious   Stumble This  

See more stories tagged with: health, vegetarian, carnivore

Read more about going Veg at Vegetarian Times.

Liked this story? Get top stories in your inbox each week from AlterNet! Sign up now »


Advertisement
Advertisement

 

Comments Turn comments off sitewide Give us feedback »
Comments closed.
The comments for this story have been closed. Thank you to everyone who participated.
View:
There are few things I hate in this world more...
Posted by: sherifffruitfly on Oct 25, 2007 12:08 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
... than militant vegetarians proselytizing at me. Worse than mormons on Saturday morning.

I believe people should eat meat if THEY want to, and not, if not. To hell with authoritarian vegetarians telling me what to eat.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» only if you eat vegans! Posted by: war_on_tara
» RE: Does this mean cannibalism is okay? Posted by: sherifffruitfly
» No, I'm ok with those things... Posted by: sherifffruitfly
» Factory Farming Posted by: rjgwood
» Check out www.Meat.org. Posted by: brucegfriedrich
» See my post above... Posted by: mjabele
» RE: Check this out... Posted by: maestra
On the other hand . . .
Posted by: Rune on Oct 25, 2007 12:37 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
. . . apparently a vegetarian diet (or at least vegetarian advocacy) can severely impair one's ability to perform simple cognitive functions, such as counting to 15 without getting stuck at six.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: On the other hand . . . Posted by: YogiBear
» Thanks Posted by: Rune
» SALTY Posted by: rjgwood
A lot to agree with .. but spare us the dubious claims
Posted by: YogiBear on Oct 25, 2007 1:00 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Of course it's healthier to eat more plants than animals -- especially organic foods. But is it really necessary to go 100 percent veggie?

Regardless, points 9-13 had some dubious claims

9. You'll help reduce pollution. 10. You'll avoid toxic chemicals.

If you mean overall pollution, I agree, but pesticides are sprayed on fields vegetarians get their food from as well. Several points were more of a cause against factory farming than against meat eating in general.

11. You'll help reduce famine. About 70 percent of all grain produced in the United States is fed to animals raised for slaughter..."If all the grain currently fed to livestock were consumed directly by people, the number of people who could be fed would be nearly 800 million,"

Um, there's plenty of grain for the starving, they just can't friggin afford it or get access to it. If meat were to disappear tomorrow, the number of starving people would not change one iota. Business is business, after all.

12. You'll spare animals.

True, but then again, if we quit eating the meat, we'd have to euthanize all the existing animals that have no place in the wild. Personally, I'd like to see more free range food and less end-of-the-day waste. The amount of meat we throw away in supermarkets is obscene.

13. You'll save money. Meat accounts for 10 percent of Americans' food spending.

Actually, studies prove that one major reason poor people eat, well, poorly, is because fast food is cheaper than healthy food. Though I agree that New York Strip Steaks cost more than celery.

I wish this web site would quit with the veggie preaching and try to sell a balanced diet. You're only winning over the choir with this approach. Methinks you don't care a whit about people's health. If you did, you'd advocate for eating meat in moderation first, and hit us with the ethical arguments a little less.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» overburdended- nice post! Posted by: veggiegrrrl
» RE: loving kids = have none or one Posted by: stilldreaming
» Wow Posted by: BTDT
» veggiegrrrl, pizzmoe, stilldreaming, BTDT Posted by: Overburdened Planet
» RE: veggiegrrrl, pizzmoe, stilldreaming, BTDT Posted by: Overburdened Planet
Okinawans? They eat alot of fish, and some meat
Posted by: Beck on Oct 25, 2007 1:19 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why is that listed in the article as a vegetarian diet? They're not vegetarians.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

PLEASE!
Posted by: Nebris on Oct 25, 2007 1:23 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
GO AWAY!!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

VegiNazi LIERS go to HELL!
Posted by: Setnakt on Oct 25, 2007 2:53 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am so DAMN sick and tired of these LIEING commie bastard VegiNazi facists! Lies, lies, lies, and MORE lies! I'm an omnivore, ALL humans are SUPPOSED to be omnivores, or else we wouldn't have CANINE teeth! We also have a omnivore digestive system, meaning we CAN'T get the proper nutrients on a rabbit diet. Nether of these FACTS are in any way questionable as they are solid medical scientific reality.

Some personial facts 1) as a natural omnivore I lean more towards being a total carnovore than omnivore, and the more these facist MORONS keep pushing their LIES and attempts to force their ideas on me as an adult, the MORE I will resist them and eat even MORE meat. Same as with the facists who try to tell me I "can't" put marijuana into my own adult body. Kiss my ass, both you Nazi bastards! 2) I'm 40, yet "somehow" on a mostly CARNOVORE diet I have a RealAge of 24! Show me one wimp rabbit food eater with a stat like that. Put up or shut the hell up! I never get sick, am UNDER my recomended body weight, in excellent shape and will go one on one with ANY freak VegiNazi even HALF my age on ANY physical challenge and wipe the floor with your LAME ass excuse for a "human". You are all words, losers with no backbone. 3) I didn't get to the top of the food chain to DEevolve back below to the level of cattle! NOTHING and NO propaganda LIES you print will EVER change that. If I'm "destroying the environment" by just being the NATURAL creature the gods made me, then screw the environment! I would rather see the human race cease to exist while were still HUMAN than become some leftie imitation that is far less than human and unrecognisable to what nature intended us to be.

Also question; since us natural omnivores are so "terriable", what about natural carnovores? Lions, tigers, wolves, oh my! Should we begin an EXTERMINATION campagin on them since they are so "evil" and will NEVER accept and buy into your Big Brother, Thought Police, Orwellien propaganda BULLSHIT?! And if not, explain the hyprocracy!? Please I would LOVE to hear why lions can eat meat but us humans aren't "allowed" to. And if lions are why not us? Tell the truth you anti-human freaks, you hate yourselves and the human species, placing all other creatures before your own and seek the genoside of the human race. There can be NO other answer for your endless lies and blantant hyprocracy. Go SCREW YOURSELVES! I'm fixing myself a steak RIGHT NOW!
Reverend Setnakt

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: VegiNazi LIERS go to HELL! Posted by: vasumurti
» Some more good resources Posted by: Amy27605
» Chill Out Posted by: debjbaba
» RE: Chill Out Posted by: Setnakt
» Wow! Such vehemence! Posted by: LeeAnnG
» RE: Wow! Such vehemence! Posted by: Setnakt
» Guilty Rage Posted by: Constitutionalist75
» RE: Guilty Rage Posted by: vasumurti
» RE: Guilty Rage Posted by: Constitutionalist75
» Canine Teeth? Posted by: oscarg
» RE: Canine Teeth? Posted by: Setnakt
» Your temper tantrum Posted by: drcyflowers
» RE: Your temper tantrum Posted by: Setnakt
» Proof Posted by: BTDT
» RE: VegiNazi LIERS go to HELL! Posted by: brock_samson
» RE: VegiNazi LIERS go to HELL! Posted by: Netanya3
» Oh dear.... Posted by: Moira61
vegetarianism
Posted by: Morell on Oct 25, 2007 4:19 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why are you wasting space with such simplistic drivel? (Plenty of high school students can write a piece as good as this one.) Why tout vegetarianism as if it were a solution to everything? The only thing you accomplish is to irritate the right wingers and, this time, me. I really don't appreciate people pushing any"-ism" or religion on a supposedly intelligent source like AlterNet.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Na, I'm sticking with Meat!
Posted by: mn1234 on Oct 25, 2007 4:22 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Actually the American diet is really crap for your health. There's enough evidence to prove this out there, I don’t need to go into supportive details. But become a vegetarian, though much more healthy than the American diet, can be beneficial, but, as far as I'm concerned based on what I've read recently, it can also be CRAP to your health.
Man developed from being meat eaters. There's plenty of evidence to prove this. There’s also evidence that mans general health began to deteriorate, and began to develop diseases, soon after he learned to cultivate plants and milk cows.
It seems that grain and milk based products are really bad for you. Maybe why there are so many FAT Americans (like me) and also in the UK (where I now live). Sticking with veggies, fruits and lean meats is far closer to what our ancient ancestors ate, which, by some account, is far better for you than what we eat today.
In fact I’ve started eating this way for a while now, with a poor start (not eating enough) I’m now finding out how much better I feel, and I’ve started to loose weight, again (I kinda went back to eating grain products, again).
I’m sure most of you heard of this diet, which is called the Paleo Diet. Well, it seems to be working for me, and I’ll keep sticking with it unless I discover a reason why. And, NO, it is not like the Atkins diet. Really!
There’s plenty written out there about it.
But, to be honest, it may not be for everyone, and I’m sure there are those out there that will scoff at it. I’m sure there’s a lot written against the Paleo Diet. Especially from those who advocate grain and milk products (especially if they’re paid by the grain and milk product producing industry!).
Thanks for reading this.
Later, Peeps!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Na, I'm sticking with Meat! Posted by: richholland
» RE: Na, I'm sticking with Meat! Posted by: meetmeineleusis
Sorry you're so offended, omnivores...
Posted by: herbivore07 on Oct 25, 2007 4:22 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...but the horror of modern meat, dairy, and egg production today kind of dwarfs the importance of your feelings about etiquette. No matter how much hatred you direct at vegetarians for "proselytizing," that won't change the fact that it's wrong to support animal cruelty and environmental degradation. That said, I think this article treads too lightly on those two issues, when in fact they should be at the center of the conversation. I recommend reading http://www.veganoutreach.org/whyvegan/ for a more substantive argument.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Scientific Ignorance Posted by: footman
» RE: Scientific Ignorance Posted by: Constitutionalist75
» RE: Scientific Ignorance Posted by: footman
» RE: Scientific Ignorance Posted by: Constitutionalist75
» RE: Scientific Ignorance Posted by: dudelette
» Blance people, balance Posted by: BTDT
» Herbivore07.. Right on! Posted by: Netanya3
» RE: Herbivore07.. Right on! Posted by: footman
» Also Posted by: footman
enjoy MEAT
Posted by: richholland on Oct 25, 2007 4:38 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Many natives of the LISUhilltribes eat during the year vegetarian but at the Chinese New Year the family hog is killed.
Remember Buddha said: Rice is in the field and fish in the water.
Disgusting;
killing the rainwood for soya. Soya for cattlefood....

Some vegatarians eat tablets to avoid shortage of B12vitamins.
(tablets are made of calvesliver)

Daily meat is not needed, red meat once a month is sufficent

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» SHUN meat Posted by: Constitutionalist75
» RE: SHUN meat Posted by: mjabele
» RE: SHUN meat Posted by: Constitutionalist75
This article is not a hard sell
Posted by: goeswithness on Oct 25, 2007 4:52 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I swear, you guys act like you were accosted while reading some OTHER article, tied down and forced to watch films of the slaughterhouse.

You know, you don't have to read everything in Alternet, and the subject was clear in the title. It's not like you were lured in under false pretenses. Nobody bullied you. And once you got here it was hardly a screaming rant, but instead a pleasant little upbeat, friendly article. At least one of you responded with a screaming rant, however, which was kind of ridiculous. Quibble with the points it made, fair enough, but being OFFENDED that an article supporting vegetarianism is going to support vegetarianism is just silly.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» You are so right! Posted by: LeeAnnG
Karlrovian
Posted by: Jarmadi on Oct 25, 2007 5:54 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This Karlrovian article should have no space on your site. For anyone having any interest in food, diet or animal welfare it is a total waste of time or worse.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Huh? Posted by: drcyflowers
» RE: Huh? Posted by: Jarmadi
Giving the Finger to the Status Quo: Go Veg
Posted by: ecofriendlynet on Oct 25, 2007 6:03 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Everyone thinks of changing the world, but no one thinks of changing himself. -- Tolstoy

“Livestock are one of the most significant contributors to today’s most serious environmental problems,” senior UN Food and Agriculture Organization (FAO) official Henning Steinfeld said. “Urgent action is required to remedy the situation.”

One of the most inconvenient truths about our serious damage to the earth is our agricultural system. It's so inconvenient that it gets very, very little attention the media (alternative too).

Below this letter is a report from EarthSave.org, but first my favorite quotes from Time Magazine and Einstein:

"[T]he costs of mass-producing cattle, poultry, pigs, sheep and fish to feed our growing population…include hugely inefficient use of freshwater and land, heavy pollution from livestock feces, rising rates of heart disease and other degenerative illnesses, and spreading destruction of the forests on which much of our planet's life depends."
-- TIME Magazine. Visions of the 21st Century, "Will We Still Eat Meat?"

"Nothing will benefit human health and increase chances of survival for life on earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet."
-- Albert Einstein, physicist, Nobel Prize 1921

The healthiest diet on the planet happens to be the one that's healthiest for the planet. The diet that most people would choose if they really followed their hearts, rewards their biological hearts. It's interesting, isn't it?

The rainforest is waiting for you.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» BOLLOCKS Posted by: footman
Why is Vegetarian Times hiding from ME?
Posted by: just john on Oct 25, 2007 6:24 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Is it because I loudly declare manipulative headlines like 15 Reasons To Stop Hiding from Vegetarianism are blatantly dishonest and unworthy of AlterNet?

Why can't these people face me?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» frantaylor is HIDING Posted by: just john
» RE: frantaylor is HIDING Posted by: frantaylor
» No, they don't... Posted by: mjabele
» RE: No, they don't... Posted by: frantaylor
» Sorry..... Posted by: mjabele
Another reason: meat consumption makes you irrational...
Posted by: mandiwrite on Oct 25, 2007 6:33 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
... or so it would appear. The minute I read the title of this piece, I thought, oh boy, they'll pour out of the woodwork! Any article that mentions sex, gender activism or vegetarianism will be eagerly read by people who are just so prepared to HATE the content, DESPISE the author, RANT and RAVE...
This gentle little bit of advice is hardly deserving of ranter-in-chief's use of the nazi suff/prefix. You know, a simple little article can do nothing to force you to turn veggie. It's just information. Go and take a pill, for goodness' sake.
I think what you guys find so upsetting is that there's so much truth in this. Masses of meat is not only bad for you, it's bad for the environment. There'd be no need for us all to turn veggie if the developed world (primarily the USA) simply CUT DOWN from meat two to three times a day, in huge portions, to eating the way most of our forefathers did. Remember when chicken on Sunday was a huge treat - and the chicken made meals for at least one more day, and then went into the stock pot? That chicken was well and wisely used, he was much leaner than the chicken of today, he lived a healthier and longer life himself, he was not stuffed with antibiotics etc, he was really free range... and as I recall, the rest of the week, we ate baked beans, macaroni cheese and the like. Oh, and his cost was far greater and more realistic than it would be today.
Anger and defensiveness on the scale that any article about vegetarianism provokes is usually a sign of guilt, in my experience. Are you feeling guilty about the way stock animals are living now, thanks to the overwhelmingly meat-based diet you eat, at an incredibly low cost, one which earlier generations would not have been able to credit?
You should: my vet tells me not to worry about my dogs eating chicken bones; the chickens are so young and in such poor condition, having been forced to grow at far too rapid a rate for their bones to keep pace, that "it's been years since I saw a chicken bone problem".
Eat meat if you must: but do so sparingly; and choose meat that you can prove has been treated with some basic consideration for its sentience and ability to feel pain. And stop getting your knickers in a knot every time vegetarians speak a little bit of truth to the power of the meat industry; it's not only revealing, it's also predictable and BORING!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

the cows are out to get us
Posted by: zooeyhall on Oct 25, 2007 6:40 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am a dairy farmer in Nebraska. Thank God that we have sites like Alternet as a mouthpiece for True Believer Vegetarians, for now the evil Cow Conspiracy has been unmasked!

I have known all along that the cows are out to get us. I have watched them at night and realized that something is afoot. They stand there placidly chewing their cuds, while plotting the enslavement of mankind! Just like in H.G Wells: "intellects vast and cool and unsypathetic, slowly and surely drawing their plans against us!"

They know our weaknesses, using our love of butter and T-bones to work our demise!

Yes, we eat cows, but the cows know that the sacrifice of some of their sister/soldiers is going to move the world closer to victory over the two-legged non-grass eaters!

Some of us think we can fight back, using Lipitor and lettuce. But as soon as we smell that neighbor barbecueing that sirloin we forget about the Evil Cholesterol threat and call out: "put one on for me, and make it rare!

And believe me, I have personally heard all that farting cows can do. Think of it: an evil cabal of Holsteins and Herfords emitting the satanic gas methane, purposely destroying the ozone layer!

I have also detected the subliminal messages that are being broadcast out of the cow palace in San Francisco: "broccoli bad, beefsteak good--broccoli bad, BEEFSTEAK GOOD!"

I have nightmares at night dreaming about a world under cow domination: "bring me my hay human!! and don't forget the napkin!"

Thank you thank you Alternet, and your vegetarian drum beating! As a farmer and confirmed meat eater, I know I can never approach the true meat-free sainthood that you have aspired to! But I know now that there are Uncorrupted Ones out there that I can look to for hope.

Forget about lack of health care, decline of the middle-class, growing economic inequality, increasing corruption in government and loss of civil liberties. The problem is all in the food we eat!

Excuse me, but I have to go out and feed the holsteins now.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: the cows are out to get us Posted by: Cooltruth
These Articles Are Offensive....
Posted by: Naomi on Oct 25, 2007 6:49 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
First, any article that touts veggie as the "best" or "most healthy" lifestyle is ethnocentrist, racist, and offensive to many Indigenous people whose culture has evolved around spiritual relationships to animals (and plants) for thousands of years.

Second, along the same traditional Indigenous lines, plants have lives and spirits the same as animals and the overuse/abuse of plants is just as harmful as the overuse/abuse of animals. See corn syrup.

Third, why not focus on ending factory farms (of any kind), use of inorganic compounds, pesticides, GMOs and wise sustainable land use REGARDLESS of dietary choices. Instead of dividing - how about building consensus and critical mass?

How about standing up for sacred dietary choices of other people instead of perpetuating the colonizer's mindset - "We know better than you." Why persist in pissing alot of people off and sounding ignorant to other cultural groups?

What a waste.
Naomi Archer
Asheville, NC
Four Directions Solidarity Network
www.eswn.org

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: These Articles Are Offensive.... Posted by: ecofriendlynet
» The article is NOT offensive at all. Posted by: Constitutionalist75
» Thanks... Posted by: mjabele
registered nurse
Posted by: la nurse on Oct 25, 2007 6:53 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I've been exposed to the arguments for a vegetarian or vegan diet for years via, primarily, my daughter who has eaten that way for over 20 years. Beginning about 10 years ago, I gradually stopped eating meat, one animal at a time. I still eat an occasional piece of fish and, while I drink soy milk, I don't make a special effort to avoid cheese or bother with reading labels. I'm 62 years old and take no prescription meds. I have plenty of energy. But I'm somewhat overweight. So is my daughter. My daughter and I have learned to make an incredible assortment of baked goods and we indulge too often. We have learned to make easy, fast, nutritious and very tasty meals over time and eat better than most people I know. I spend somewhat less money making primarily vegan meals, but do use some costly ingredients throughout the week because I like the meals which contain them. After reading some of the other comments about this article, it occurred to me that the tone of some seemed strident and confrontive. The meat industry is big and influential. If people were to change their diets significantly, profits would drop. I don't think there is any real possibility of that in the near future. People tend stick to the familiar whether it is good or rational or not. It is only after an untoward event, like a heart attack, that many become receptive to a change in lifestyle. I generally don't recommend avoiding all meat to patients. What I might do is recommend a cookbook by a cardiologist which has no meat recipes. With something like smoking, going "cold turkey" may be the most effective approach. A dietary change can occur gradually. I would never have considered my current diet if it happened all at once. Now that I have a mental stash of vegan meals, I wonder how I could have eaten meat for so long. But, really, I know. It was habit. My habit now is to eat meat free meals.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Meat as a condiment
Posted by: Sunfell on Oct 25, 2007 7:13 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I like being an omnivore. But I'm not a huge meat-eater- it's expensive, to begin with. So, my solution is to use meat as a condiment- a little bit in a stir-fry, for instance, not a giant steak that takes up most of the plate. I've reversed the veggies-to-meat ratio, and it seems to be working well for me. I've also done something else: drastically reduced the grain-based foods in my diet. I've increased legumes to compensate.

Unfortunately, getting high-quality produce is not cheap. Fresh veggies drive up my grocery bill considerably- even if I buy no meat at all. It's a rather sad conundrum- not being able to afford to eat as healthily as I would like to. I do my best, though, and try to stay out of the veggie vs. carnivore debate. Variety is the spice of life. Pass the shrimp.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» This is a good idea Posted by: ecofriendlynet
» enough Posted by: vasumurti
» RE: enough Posted by: dennisinmemphis
Blindly Running from the Truth - Part 1
Posted by: nikkie on Oct 25, 2007 7:16 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
PART 1:

Like children you run from the truth about Santa Claus. You have been trained to be greedy, dependent, selfish, cruel, sick and unaware by those that would benefit from your ignorance and your bad health, and all the while in parallel the health of the human spirit and that of the planet dies in proportion. Listen to yourselves cry and whine like babies when someone tries to wean you from ignorance.

For those that have the patience and the desire to seek the truth the following can easily be verified. A good place to start might be John Robbin's Diet for a New America to be followed with holistic works by Oshawa.

The single greatest contributing sector in the decline of the environment is produced by the overproduction and harvesting of flesh and flesh byproducts for consumption. When you know the truth about the enormity of what goes into the system and the grotesqueness of what comes out of it you start to get a feel for what we’re doing to the planet.

The single greatest contributing sector in the decline of human health is produced by the over consumption of flesh based foods. What you don’t understand is that in measurable terms the human species currently exhibits all of the characteristics of a dying species.

The above two observations unmask a universal truth that says “what’s good for the planet is good for you and what’s bad for you is bad for the planet, and visa versa.” Contemplation of these words, even on a surface level, will provide some immediate and surprising guidance when making choices and trying to sort through the lies that are heaped upon you.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» BIOLOGY, Motherfucker Posted by: footman
» RE: BIOLOGY, Motherfucker Posted by: frantaylor
» RE: BIOLOGY, Motherfucker Posted by: footman
» RE: BIOLOGY, Motherfucker Posted by: Ayla87
» RE: BIOLOGY, Motherfucker Posted by: pizzmoe
» RE: BIOLOGY, Motherfucker Posted by: footman
Blindly Running from the Truth - Part 2
Posted by: nikkie on Oct 25, 2007 7:19 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
PART 2:

And in the end, there’s always the equity audit.

If you’re concerned about health then consider that the average male has a greater than 1 in 2 chance of dying from heart disease, unless of course you’re vegan, in which case your risk becomes less than 4%. If you’re a woman and concerned about such things as osteoporosis, breast cancer, etc. you should know that there are populations in this world that have 1/50 the incidence of these conditions. The reasons are not genetic. They are directly attributable to the ignorant and excessive diet and lifestyle of industrialized nations versus that of a sustainable natural whole foods based diet. This vegan comes from a long line of diabetics, heart disease and obesity. Yet my cholesterol is 126, I’m slim, I have no sugar problems, I can ride a bike 100 miles in a day, I haven’t been sick a day in the last 20 years and I haven’t seen a doctor or taken any drugs or medications in as long. I’m 54 and 99% of the people I meet can’t keep up with me in more ways than you care to imagine. What a shame all of humanity can’t enjoy such freedom away from the cares and excesses of animal indulgences. This was your design and someone has taken it away from you. You ought to be mad about it.

If you’re concerned about the environment consider that this natural whole foods based vegan kept every box, bag, wrapper, etc. over a two year period while I shopped bulk and cooked scratch. The end result was I set no trash out for a period of two entire years and when I did it only amounted to seven small wine boxes. Moreover, the majority of the content was cardboard, which might have been recycled except that my area didn’t have such a program. Meanwhile, the single mom across the street with two teenage kids is throwing out two huge containers (each large enough to hold my 2 year contents) every week overflowing with pizza boxes and the like. The math would suggest an enormous relief to the environment as on the surface it appears my contribution to trash would be 1/208th (2 x 52 x 2) of what my neighbor’s was. But the real relief comes from the part of the equation that people don’t see, like the cost of collection, the carbon fuels, the wages, the vehicle maintenance, the spoiled acreage, the ground water contamination, etc. You see how much is attached in the trickle down? It’s everywhere, yet you have no idea the impact your diet and lifestyle has. Oh, and by the way, the beautiful thing is I could have added another couple of people to my table without increasing the output. Go figure. The natural ways are a beautiful thing to appreciate and to live by. This was your design and someone has taken it away from you. You ought to be mad about it.

Lastly, it’s true the human body is the most adaptable vehicle on the planet. But what you need to realize is that the adaptable nature of the human body must at all times be governed by human intellect. This is what affords us, by design, the latitude of upturns and downturns, and the feast and famine in our struggle to survive. Just because we can eat cheesecake or candy bars doesn’t mean we can survive on them exclusively. Just because we can slaughter an animal and consume it out of sight out of mind doesn’t mean we can absolve ourselves from the consequences of our actions. It means if the harvest was poor maybe we can take down one of the beasts of burden to help us through the winter and provide us leather and other things we should never take for granted.

There is atonement for transgressing universal law. It has nothing to do with good or bad. It has to do with the way things are. It is the great unforgiving force. No one escapes these simple rules no matter how much they rewire their brains with TV and other mush. Are we not paying for such transgression? Good God people look around and think.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

FUCK OFF
Posted by: footman on Oct 25, 2007 7:25 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I can't believe this horseshit. Alternet is the biggest peddler of hypocrisy lately. First the Feminazi anti-porn crusade, now this.

Honestly, how can you run articles about preachy Christian fundamentalists in the military (rightly so) in the same breath as prosletysing articles like this? I thought the point of the Left / Progressive movement was to be tolerant?

I am a Buddhist, and I eat meat. The Venerable Abbot of my temple, Ajahn Brahm has been a Monk for 30 odd years, and he follows the 5 precepts. He eats meat.

DEAL with it people. It's in our biological makeup. Meat once or twice a week, balanced out by vegetarianism in between. Just like Chimps. Easy.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: FUCK OFF Posted by: Xynyx
» RE: FUCK OFF Posted by: footman
» ALSO Posted by: footman
» RE: ALSO Posted by: frantaylor
» RE: ALSO Posted by: footman
» RE: ALSO Posted by: frantaylor
» RE: ALSO Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: FUCK OFF Posted by: pizzmoe
» RE: FUCK OFF Posted by: footman
» RE: FUCK OFF Posted by: pizzmoe
» also Xynyx ... Posted by: footman
» RE: FUCK OFF Posted by: Jordonquits
» RE: FUCK OFF Posted by: footman
Num Num's
Posted by: meetmeineleusis on Oct 25, 2007 7:36 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Just about to sit down to eat the world's most perfect sandwich.

So perfect, the bread has been removed
here's how to make it

You need 2 burger patties, these are your buns
in between those you need a chicken breast, bacon, 1 bald eagle egg, the stripped meat of frog legs, and a filet mignon.
Top with a half pound of cheddar cheese, and enjoy..

Num num.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Num Num's Posted by: Shey
» RE: Num Num's Posted by: meetmeineleusis
» RE: Num Num's Posted by: Shey
15 reasons not to give up meat
Posted by: Axiom69 on Oct 25, 2007 7:48 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
1. The porterhouse. OOOh Yummy
2. NY Strip Marinated in garlic vinegar
3. Porkchops
4 BBQ Ribs Messy but oh so good
5 fried chicken fingerlicken good
6 Shish kabobs on the grill- damn now my mouth is watering
7. CHILI- with some buttered Italian bread on a cold winter day. OH Heaven
8 Vennison stew. I can die a happy man
9 and 10. Hamburgers and hot dogs on the grill. a summer staple
11. Home raised smoked bacon with eggs fresh from the hen house.
12 Liver- good for you but yuck. the veggie nazis have me on this one.
13. The Big Mac- It'll send you into cardiac arrest but it does taste good
14 TACOS! A veggie taco aint a taco it's a salad in a shell
15 Thanksgiving Day Turkey. with a catnap on the couch afterwards.

Bo, sorry I will never join the ranks of the vegitarians. There is just too much tasty meat out there. :P

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» The Fox Who Had Lost His Tail Posted by: Overburdened Planet
» RE: The Fox Who Had Lost His Tail Posted by: frantaylor
» RE: The Fox Who Had Lost His Tail Posted by: Overburdened Planet
» Dammit, Axiom69--- Posted by: zooeyhall
» RE: Dammit, Axiom69--- Posted by: Axiom69
Great Article! I'm glad its on AlterNet!
Posted by: ElaineS on Oct 25, 2007 7:59 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This article is full of accurate, relevant tips on improving your health, stopping animal suffering, and saving the environment. But judging from some of the juvenille comments posted, the topic makes people feel threatened and defensive. There is no reason for that. A vegetarian diet is beneficial in multiple ways and vegetarian food tastes great too.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Nonsense Posted by: Amy27605
» RE: Nonsense Posted by: Gisele
Meat isn't the problem
Posted by: Frankstank on Oct 25, 2007 8:15 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This piece is wrong in its diagnosis that it is meat that is causing spiraling cancer rates and obesity. In fact, what is causing the cancer and the obesity rates is a toxic mix of junk food (which part of is meat-based, but hey, when was the last time they made Doritos out of meat?), and sendantary lifestyles. I will ask you to go back as far as your grandfather. Check out what he looked like in those old photos and films. He was thin wasn't he? He looked fit and healthy.

Why? Why when gramps ate meat and two veg everyday for most of his life? Because gramps used his body and walked and worked out and served in the army. He wasn't a lazy dofus who snacked on Doritos and played video games all day long. He would clear brush like the Prez does.

I used to buy the veggie propoganda until I lived in a country where the people subsisted on a diet manly of meat and milk. And they were extraordinarily fit and healthy people. And then I looked at the weedy people in the country next door, living mostly on veggies and rice.

Meat that is fresh, free of chemicals and is part of a normal diet of home-cooked food is not bad for you. Meals, in the context of a life lived with plenty of activity, are not bad for you. Veggie-fascists want you to be gnawing on an over-priced organic carrot while you wonder how your scrawning and low-energy body is going to get outside and do something.

At university they used to have club day. At one table there was the vegan society. And at another, the varsity football team. The vegan was a pale and physically emaciated guy who didn't look healthy (but I am sure was morally smug). And the varsity guys were very healthy and big and strong. Hmm??

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Sorry, this is not correct. Posted by: jparsons
» RE: Sorry, this is not correct. Posted by: Frankstank
stupidity abounds
Posted by: frantaylor on Oct 25, 2007 8:17 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
All the meat-addicts proclaim their right to be stupid. They get all fired up when they think someone wants to take their cheeseburger away. You can take my civil rights, my 401K, my freedom, my privacy, and my self-esteem, but if you take my charred bits of dead animal from me, well, I just might have to get mad.

If you think the world "owes" you the enormous resources you are consuming with your burger, you are really deluded.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» And ignorance follows Posted by: footman
» RE: And ignorance follows Posted by: frantaylor
» RE: And ignorance follows Posted by: pizzmoe
» RE: And ignorance follows Posted by: footman
» RE: And ignorance follows Posted by: pizzmoe
if god didnt want us eating animals he wouldn't have made them taste like meat
Posted by: nubbsgalore on Oct 25, 2007 8:22 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
i agree that eating animals should be largely avoided, BUT

1. the human evolution of the brain is exclusively the result of our meat eating habits. meat meant more energy which meant bigger brains (your brain consumes more calories than any muscle). without meat, no homo erectus or sapien.

2. free range chicken and wild salmon and tuna provide you with a quality of protein you cant get with legumes and tofu. vegetarians lose out on many essential nutrients by avoiding these products.

3. for someone who consumes 150-200g or protein a day, milk, nuts and whey powder only get you so far.

4. exercise is a more important determinant of health than quantity/absence of meat in one's diet. most (not all) vegetarians i know are too thin and couldnt run 10k to save their lives. and exercise more than diet will determine energy levels.

5. it's more important to give up alcohol and smoked leafs than meat, if health is the argument to be used. how many vegetarians are teetotalers and never smoke anything?

6. you only live longer on a calorie restricted diet by consuming 600-800 calories. so much for exercise in your life. you burn more calories running for less than an hour.

7. i bike or take transit almost everywhere. im saving the envirnoment more than a vegetarian with a car. and i buy local (within 200k) so my conscience is clear.

8. ecoli outbreaks on spinach show produce can be just as deadly as meat. and without standards in the "organic" market, you really dont know what's on your produce (unless you buy local and know who grows the food)

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Right on! You nailed it. Posted by: Frankstank
» crap crap crap Posted by: frantaylor
» You are full of ... Posted by: Frankstank
» Who would even eat insects? Posted by: Cooltruth
» RE: Who would even eat insects? Posted by: Frankstank
» RE: Who would even eat insects? Posted by: Cooltruth
» RE: Who would even eat insects? Posted by: Frankstank
» RE: crap crap crap Posted by: nubbsgalore
» RE: crap crap crap Posted by: frantaylor
Chill Out
Posted by: debjbaba on Oct 25, 2007 8:36 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Dude, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Why does this one push your buttons so much? I have read this opinion too: meat eaters are more agressive. Seems from the anger in your email there may be some validity to this opinion. By the way, I eat meat too.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» VegiNazi LIERS Posted by: debjbaba
A famous fact vegetarian evangelists hide from.
Posted by: just john on Oct 25, 2007 8:43 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think it's the statement that caused Godwin's Law to first be enunciated.

And I've put it here.

Note: I've no problem with vegetarianism or even vegetarian evangelism. "Some of my best friends," etc. It's deliberately polarizing, provocative and misleading headlines on AlterNet that I'm complaining about. So you want to provoke? Go to the link I just posted and see how much you like it.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Hitler WASN'T a vegetarian Posted by: vasumurti
TOP 10 REASONS TO EAT MEAT (OCCASIONALLY)
Posted by: thelostsailor on Oct 25, 2007 8:44 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
1. It's good for you
2. You're suburban sprawl displaced deer that are starving to death BECAUSE OF YOU (broccoli head).
3. Thinning you're local deer herd will make a healthier natural deer (or other healthy population of game) population that will be less on the run from your gas guzzler (zucchini breath).
4. Vegetable fare that isn't organic or local is inherently bad.
5. Game in your back yard means a serious savings in oil, versus produce commercially grown and transported produce from who knows where.
6. Commercial produce production happens on large scales and uses much oil (no matter how green you lettuce looks in the store).
7. Many commonly consumed grains and legumes come from overseas (even organic items, such as bulk dry black beans are almost exclusively coming from China now).
8. Eating locally is arguably as important, especially when a healthy, nature-raised, protein-rich animal is available as a food source.
9. Not everyone is in a geographic or financial situation to buy large volumes (or to grow) of produce, yet a deer could be shot for a low price, providing a year of food. (Yet conventional produce is often startlingly low priced, and also a big problem).
10. Eating wild game and fish is still opting out of the nasty commercial industry.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

So dairy and tofu dogs are the answer?
Posted by: VannaLaRoche on Oct 25, 2007 8:51 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I avoid soy because of the phytoestrogens. Eating a lot of factory-produced soymilk and soy burgers and soy dogs and soy fake this or that is not going to contribute to my health. People didn't eat soy burgers 3,000 years ago.

And I don't think people were meant to satisfy their hunger by eating huge amounts of nuts, seeds, or fruits.

Think of it--was there a time in human life where one could get a whole bagful of sunflower seeds and make a meal out of it? When in the history of human life was EVERYONE eating tofu? Tofu is a PROCESSED FOOD. Pounds and pounds of sesame and soybeans and peanuts and sunflower seeds don't just deposit themselves in your pantry--they're just as much a product of factory farming as chickens.

The current vegetarian/vegan kick is a result of an affluent lifestyle that lets us think that by buying six pounds of soybeans we're somehow NOT buying into the stupidity of, "if less meat is good, then NO meat must be best. If soy is good, then an ALL-SOY (or all fruit, or all raw food, or all grain) diet must be best!"

When oat bran was said to reduce cholesterol, all of a sudden everyone was eating oat bran by the handful. That's not natural, and it's only possible because of factory farming and truck transportation.

A vegetarian diet of VitaSoy and Silk and "nut loaves" is no more balanced than a diet of Whoppers. Soy isn't a miracle food that can provide all the protein anyone ever needs--but that's what this article seems to be saying.

I went vegetarian for a while. Nothing but diarrhea, GI pain, fatigue, dry skin--which may have to do with my blood type, or maybe because humans weren't made for a completely vegetarian diet any more than they were made for a diet of nothing but Happy Meals.

Factory farming is more of an issue than eating meat.

For me, if it wasn't eaten a thousand years ago, I don't eat it now. And I don't recall anyone eating soy bacon or tofuburgers in the 11th century. Or Gummi Bears or granola bars, either.

But hey: put it in a pretty package, color it up, call it "healthy" on the label, and you can sucker in enough people to make a business out of it! This society makes it possible: CHOICE and AFFLUENCE makes such sniffy vegetarian fundamentalism possible.

Believe me, when the crash comes, vegans will eat meat. They'll eat squirrel, they'll eat rabbit, they'll eat pigeon. Because the truck with their soyburgers and Silk isn't making deliveries any more, and the peanuts and sunflower seeds are being eaten where they were grown.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Comment is on the money. Posted by: footman
» RE: Comment is on the money. Posted by: pizzmoe
» Pizzmoe Posted by: footman
» Soy Isoflavones can be harmful to Thyroid Posted by: Overburdened Planet
» YAWN - gigantic strawman Posted by: jparsons
Somone is spiking the meat supply!
Posted by: pizzmoe on Oct 25, 2007 9:28 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I guess there are a lot of dittoheads that post on Alternet. I think there is little in this article that can be refuted, but I'm fascinated by how angry the meat-eating posters are here. I don't know if I was that angry, but I also used to get upset by people telling me to go veg. Why? Because how dare someone tell me to give up my steak? How dare they tell me I would feel better and be healthier? The nerve of those people! Well, at some point I actually opened my mind and decided to try it. It's been almost 8 years now, and everything I was told was true, and I'll never go back to eating meat again. Reading all the angry responses here, if I wasnt a vegetarian before, I would be now! Thank you to all of you Rush listeners!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Hey wait a sec.. Posted by: footman
» RE: Hey wait a sec.. Posted by: pizzmoe
» I have Posted by: footman
» RE: I have Posted by: pizzmoe
» RE: I have Posted by: footman
» RE: I have Posted by: pizzmoe
» Classic fundie post Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: Classic fundie post Posted by: footman
Vegetarianism is Not Necessarily Healthy
Posted by: Blueprelude on Oct 25, 2007 9:37 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Sorry to burst your bubble, Vegetarian Times, but vegetarianism is not necessarily healthy. I am speaking as one who converted to vegetarianism a number of years ago. Vegetarian diets rich in milk and other dairy products can make you fat also. Hindus, for example, have a problem with heart disease because of diets rich in ghee (clarified butter) among other dairy products. I have noticed a lot of fat Indian vegetarians around, too! I myself gained weight on my vegetarian diet, until I combined it with a regular body cleansing regimen.

Vegetarianism, like every other diet, needs to be done with a real sense of what is being eaten, including caloric intake.

While vegetarianism is ok for adults, it may not be at all good for children, especially a vegan diet. Witness the well-known case of the vegan parents whose infant died from malnutrition from not getting essential nutrients that milk could have given the child.

I would be happy to hear any replies based on experience, especially on the nutritional aspects of raising vegetarian children.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» One sided debate Posted by: footman
One question
Posted by: Chickensh*tEagle on Oct 25, 2007 9:50 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
-- or because we've always loved animals and are ethically opposed to eating them.

If the whole world went vegetarian, what would you feed the cat?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: One question Posted by: footman
» RE: One question Posted by: pizzmoe
Get out in the woods folks,
Posted by: Illiteratilumen on Oct 25, 2007 9:55 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
and kill yourself a deer! Then slice its belly open, starting at the anus and ending at the sternum. Reach inside the animal and slice its throat. The guts come out pretty easily at that point. Wow, that deer is a lot lighter now. Much easier to drag back to your house! Where is all of the guilt and such that I should be feeling for killing poor bambi?

There. I've just given myself a staple food source for several months while having virtually no environmental impact. I appreciate the food more because I got it myself and I know where it came from. Why more environmentalists can't embrace this idea is beyond me. I guarantee you more animals suffered during the cultivation, harvest and distribution of any vegetarian item grown on an industrial scale than that deer I downed with a well-placed slug. I'll go pull some helpless fish out of the river the next day and they will get gutted and eaten too!

I simply fail to see the moral superiority of vegetarianism. If you want to go veggie, that is fine. Best of luck to you, in fact. Just don't fool yourselves into thinking that you occupy the moral high ground and DON'T try and make me feel guilty for my lifestyle.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Nugent isn't a responsible outdoorsman Posted by: Illiteratilumen
» Don't kid yourself Posted by: Illiteratilumen
» RE: Get out in the woods folks, Posted by: frantaylor
» Hundreds of millions Posted by: footman
» RE: Hundreds of millions Posted by: frantaylor
» RE: Hundreds of millions Posted by: footman
» RE: Get out in the woods folks, Posted by: Illiteratilumen
» RE: Get out in the woods folks, Posted by: frantaylor
» RE: Get out in the woods folks, Posted by: Illiteratilumen
» RE: Get out in the woods folks, Posted by: frantaylor
» RE: Get out in the woods folks, Posted by: Illiteratilumen
» RE: Get out in the woods folks, Posted by: frantaylor
» RE: Get out in the woods folks, Posted by: Illiteratilumen
» RE: Get out in the woods folks, Posted by: Cooltruth
» RE: Get out in the woods folks, Posted by: Illiteratilumen
» RE: Get out in the woods folks, Posted by: Illiteratilumen
» Where the hell do you live? Posted by: Illiteratilumen
» RE: Get out in the woods folks, Posted by: Jordonquits
the weight thing is total crap
Posted by: DaBear on Oct 25, 2007 10:58 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I've been a veggie since 1988, mostly economics drove me to it. A lot of nice things in the piece, but it's really been overdone now... time to write something original, please?

One more thing, the losing weight thing? Bullshit. If you're an endo-morph body type like me the only way you drop any weight is by exercising, all the goddamned time. I walk for any distance under 2 km instead of drive, I play futbol (SAH-kur), I referee, I hike and mountain bike. The only "diet" approach was the vegetarian South Beach diet and that stopped working two months in because I was recovering from a ruptured disc in my back. Vegetarianism is not a substitute for lifestyle in terms of weight loss. It's high time we veggies quit pulling out that canard.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Not total crap Posted by: jparsons
Laura F.
Posted by: lauraf on Oct 25, 2007 11:52 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Going vegetarian, or better yet vegan, is great for your health, great for the environment, and really great for all the animals lives you will be sparing. Thanks, Vegetarian Times, for the educational article and for listing all these no-brainer reasons to Go Veg!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

360guy
Posted by: 360guy on Oct 25, 2007 12:14 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
if 'you are ..what you eat'.... than carnivores....ARE DEAD MEAT...!!!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: 360guy Posted by: Jordonquits
Reasons to Go Vegetarian
Posted by: vasumurti on Oct 25, 2007 12:22 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Half the water consumed in the U. S. goes to irrigate land growing feed and fodder for livestock. Huge amounts of water are also used to wash away their excrement. In fact, U. S. livestock produce twenty times as much excrement as does the entire human population, creating sewage which is ten to several hundred times more concentrated than raw domestic sewage.

Animal wastes cause ten times more water pollution than does the U. S. human population; the meat industry causes three times as much harmful organic water pollution than the rest of the nation's industries combined.

Meat producers are the number one industrial polluters in our nation, contributing to half the water pollution in the United States. The water that goes into a thousand-pound steer could float a destroyer.

It takes twenty-five gallons of water to produce a pound of wheat, but twenty-five hundred gallons to produce a pound of meat. If these costs weren't subsidized by the American taxpayers, hamburger meat would be $35 per pound!

The burden of subsidizing the California meat industry costs taxpayers $24 billion annually. Livestock producers are California's biggest consumers of water. Every tax dollar the state doles out to livestock producers costs taxpayers over seven dollars in lost wages, higher living costs and reduced business income. Seventeen western states have enough water supplies to support economies and populations twice as large as the present.

Overgrazing of cattle leads to topsoil erosion, turning once-arable land into desert. We lose four million acres of topsoil each year and eighty-five percent of this loss is directly caused by raising livestock. To replace the soil we've lost, we're destroying our forests. Since 1967, the rate of deforestation in the U. S. has been one acre every five seconds. For each acre cleared in urbanization, seven are cleared for grazing or growing livestock feed.

One-third of all raw materials in the U. S. are consumed by the livestock industry and it takes thrice as much fossil fuel energy to produce meat than it does to produce plant foods. A report on the energy crisis in Scientific American warned: "The trends in meat consumption and energy consumption are on a collision course."

Nor can fish provide any help here. There are signs that the fishing industry (which is quite energy-intensive) has already overfished the oceans in several areas. And fish could never play a major role in the worlds diet anyway: the entire global fish catch of the world, if divided among all the world's inhabitants would amount to only a few ounces of fish per person per week.

Obviously, then, the idea of providing the entire world with a Western-style diet is quite absurd. But what about satisfying today's demand for meat--which provides only a fraction of the population with a Western-style diet?

If the world population triples in the next 100 years, and meat consumption continues, then meat production would have to triple as well. Instead of 3.7 billion acres of cropland and 7.5 billion acres of grazing land, we would require 11.1 billion acres of cropland and 22.5 billion acres of grazing land.

But this is slightly larger than the total land area of the six inhabited continents! We are desperately short of forests, water and energy already. Even if we resort to extreme methods of population control: abortion, infanticide, genocide, etc...modest increases in the world population would make it impossible to maintain current levels of meat consumption. On a vegetarian or vegan diet, however, the world could easily support a population several times its present size.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Eat meat, buy local Posted by: Illiteratilumen
Additional Reasons to Eat Lower on the Food Chain
Posted by: vasumurti on Oct 25, 2007 12:29 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Significant environmental damage results from livestock agriculture, the fishing industry, etc. often driving many other species into extinction.

The extinction of the passenger pigeon was caused by the American westward expansion in the second half of the 19th century. As passenger pigeons became a popular food item, the numbers of this species rapidly diminished. Millions were slaughtered each year and shipped by railway cars to be sold in city markets. Another bird to become extinct because of its use as food was the heath hen, which became extinct about 1932.

The pacific sardine lives along the coasts of North America from Alaska to southern California. Sardines, once a major part of the California fishing industry, are now considered to be "commercially extinct."

Another species classified as "commercially extinct" is the New England haddock. Ecologists have also been concerned about the significant reduction in finfish, the Atlantic bluefin tuna, Lake Erie cisco, and blackfins that inhabit Lakes Huron and Michigan.

More than 200,000 porpoises are killed every year by fishermen seeking tuna in the Pacific. Sea turtles are similarly killed in Caribbean shrimp operations.

Some animals are killed because, as natural carnivores, they compete with the human predator for the right to kill other animals for food, including wild game and domesticated species raised by livestock ranchers. Alaskan hunters are eager to reduce the wolf population in their state because this animal is a predator of moose.

Cougars, coyotes and wolves are considered a menace to the cattle and sheep industries, and livestock ranchers have engaged in a large-scale campaign to exterminate them. Two species of wolves are now endangered, and very few wolves can be found in the United States except in Alaska and northeastern Minnesota.

The relatively small number of eagles in the U.S. is largely due to the destruction of this species by livestock ranchers, particularly those in the sheep business.

Herbivorous animals that inhabit rangeland areas are also killed by the livestock industry because they compete with cattle arid sheep for food. Large numbers of kangaroos are being exterminated in Australia, while in the United States livestock ranchers seek to destroy wild horses, wild burros, deer, elk, antelope and prairie dogs.

An ever-increasing amount of beef eaten in the United States is imported from Central and South America. To provide pasture for cattle, these countries have been clearing their priceless tropical rainforests.

In 1960, when the U. S. first began to import beef, Central America was blessed with 130,000 square miles of rainforest. But now, less than 80,000 square miles remain. At this rate, the entire tropical rainforests of Central America will be gone in another forty years.

These tropical rainforests are among the world's most precious natural resources. Amounting to only 30 percent of the world's forests, the rainforests contain 80 percent of the earth's land vegetation, and account for a substantial percentage of the earth's oxygen supplies.

These forests are the oldest ecosystems on earth and have developed extreme ecological richness. Half of all species on earth live in the moist tropical rainforests. But these jewels of nature are being rapidly destroyed to provide land on which cattle can be grazed for the American fast-food market.

The current rate of species extinction is 1,000 species a year, and most of that is due to the destruction of rainforests and related habitats in the tropics.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Pretty clearly, meat-eating advocates are angry and profane.
Posted by: jparsons on Oct 25, 2007 12:58 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Good thing Alternet doesn't post any articles from them.
Perhaps they don't write any worth reading?

Folks, this is Alternet. From an alternative viewpoint. Why
get so upset if the viewpoint is alternative from yours, and
you prefer the status quo? Perhaps you like to think that you
are alternative, and don't like to find out you have your own
blind spots and places where your mind is so slammed closed
you are dysfunctional?

Just a thought.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» jparsons are you for real? Posted by: footman
» goose Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: goose Posted by: footman
» Unfortunately, jparsons... Posted by: mjabele
Vegetarians generally have less energy
Posted by: Democratic Socialist on Oct 25, 2007 1:38 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I agree that a vegetarian diet is much better for the environment and such...however, I'd say that a 75% vegetarian to 25% meat diet is probably ideal for most people.

However, what I notice about most vegetarians is that they often lack energy and 'animal vitality' to a certain extent. They often work sedentary jobs where they don't have to expend much energy and thus don't need to eat a protein and calorie rich diet that includes meat.

However, do you all seriously expect a construction worker who is out in the hot sun all day, climbing up and down ladders, lifting heavy objects, and pounding nails to have the energy for that kind of work on a skimpy vegetarian diet? They might be able to do it for a little while, but eventually their body would start wasting away without meat because they are using so much more energy than they are bringing in. Anyone that has done heavy work in their lifetime knows that it's nearly impossible to eat enough vegetables/fruits in a day to stay feeling well when doing such work -- a person would literally have to eat pounds of beans a day or something like that, and that's simply not feasible.

So you have to take in to account your lifestyle. As I said, vegetarianism is good for those with a sedentary lifestyle (office workers, teachers, etc), and those type of people would benefit most from it because it would make them less prone to being overweight. But those that are expected to be more active in their jobs or lives actually NEED the extra meat-protein in their diet so that thei bodies can handle the extra activity.

Of course the overweight issue in the Western world can be traced back to all of these people with sedentary jobs/lives that are eating meat daily, even every meal...it's simple: they are eating the diet of a construction worker even though they are an office worker. What a waste of food/fuel and resources.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Sorry, this is not correct. Posted by: jparsons
» This totally wrong. Posted by: ecofriendlynet
» RE: This totally wrong. Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: This totally wrong. Posted by: footman
omnivorous naturalist
Posted by: Desert Ravengrrrl on Oct 25, 2007 2:17 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
My husband and I are environmental consultants, hired to inform landowners of the plant and animals species present on their land. I'll tell you this - no matter how "integrated" into the land a produce farm may be, it will ALWAYS displace native flora and fauna. We have, however, found numerous intact populations of rare and/or endangered species coexisting with cattle on grazing lands. Don't get me wrong - overgrazing has detrimental effects also - its one of the causes of the oak tree disappearance in CA.

I'd also like to say this - I was a vegetarian for a decade. I was obcessed with my diet and my attempts to get enough protein and iron. By 10 years, I reached a point of exhaustion. I tried an experiment and ate a tuna sandwich: and received the biggest rush of energy I ever experienced!! I began eating a healthy moderation of animal protein mixed with a large portion of veggies and whole grains. My energy increased, I lost body fat, and gained muscle. I will NEVER go back to vegetarianism! Also, btw, a year ago I gave up gluten and focused on consuming as much raw veggies as possible (with animal protein present at every meal). I have never looked and felt better!

As seems to often be the case - moderation and diversity is the key.

IMHO, vegetarianism is not the answer - lowered human populations are the only solution to environmental destruction! Okay, go ahead, start the attacks for my "crazy" comment about population growth. Yadda yadda yah.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Population IS the problem Posted by: Frankstank
» RE: omnivorous naturalist Posted by: frantaylor
» RE: omnivorous naturalist Posted by: Desert Ravengrrrl
» RE: omnivorous naturalist Posted by: Desert Ravengrrrl
3 points
Posted by: Rod on Oct 25, 2007 2:29 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
1. Humans do not have the digestive system suited for grass, and much land is only good for pasture. I eat beef raised only on grass, and it is lean and tasty. Only a fraction of land in the world is suitable for vegtables.
2. Grass only animals free up more grain for the starving humans that can not pay for it, or to turn into Ethanol and sell it, too bad starving humans.
3. Fish are tasty also, and it hard to grow beans in the ocean.

Flame away!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: 3 points Posted by: frantaylor
» RE: 3 points Posted by: Shey
» RE: 3 points Posted by: footman
The solution is:
Posted by: Desert Ravengrrrl on Oct 25, 2007 2:36 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
LESS HUMANS!

By living in smaller, more-centralized communities, humans could minimize environmental degradation in all the critical ways:
1. less energy consumption.
2. more-localized food production, specific to the conditions of the region. This would allow us to stop using destructive fertilizers and pesticides.
3. a small distribution system would use less energy and keep food fresher and therefore more nutritious (which would result in less consumption). A smaller distribution system would also lower the need for preservatives, another unhealthy factor in our modern diet.

Its the simplest answer, but certainly not the easiest (see comments and resistance, below...).

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Going No Place
Posted by: Jarmadi on Oct 25, 2007 3:45 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There seems to be a pattern here. Alternet publishes an article advocating a vegan diet, containing much untruth, half/truth, and highly suspect truth. Meat eaters, and those with some direct knowlege of farming and animal husbandtry respond and challenge the factual basis of the article. Readers sympathetic with the agenda of the article then respond with angry tirades, claiming that meat eaters just cannot handle the truth, poor deluded meat eaters. Then the meat eaters escalate the "dialog". I haven't read all of these 200+ comments, but in my scanning through, I have yet to find anyone really listening to what is said, unless it agrees with one's already set in concrete point of view. Personally, I know that I am not eager to invest my time in repeated attempts to communicate with someone not interested in listening.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Going No Place Posted by: Shey
» We are not the ones attacking. Posted by: YogiBear
Overly Simplistic and Overgeneralized
Posted by: Gravitas on Oct 25, 2007 3:51 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
First of all, I am tired of the myth that vegetarians are thinner. Having researched the stigma of fatness for decades, I can tell you how many fat and very fat vegetarians I know. Many of them have stopped calling themselves vegetarians because of the harrassment and stereotypes they get from the veggie community. And the CDC's weight standards are ridiculous! They were developed by pharma to sell more pills. They in no way shape or form represent the natural range healthy people come in. Personally I resent the term "overweight." That implies there is a correct weight and that is up for debate.

Furthermore, some of the other stats used are the result of wishful thinking, not science. 13 years added to life??? I doubt it!!!! Dean Ornish wants to sell books!!!!!!! When you overstate the case like that, it just makes you lose credibility.

I'll say it again, the evangelism by vegetarians is one reason I will remain a flextarian and eat chicken or fish every once in awhile. I just can't stand people shoving agenda's in my face, whether it is the bible thumping right, or beansprout thumping left.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

15 reason to be vegetarian, one reason not to
Posted by: texshelters on Oct 25, 2007 4:29 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Not every meat eater is a heartless bastard...some have even tried it, imagine that!

When I was a vegetarian eating as many vegetable protiens as I could, I was pale and sick. Most of us are omnivores, and praise be Bob Marley is you are a healthy vegetarian. I couldn't be, although politically, I agree with the idea. I prefer feeling healthy though, so I eat meat now and again. Unfortunately, many vegetarians don't understand the concept of needing animal proteins because perhaps they don't need it. And please spare me the dietary advice, I've tried live foods, and beans, and soy, and blah, blah, blah.

Gimme some meat.

Joe Tex

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

a pattern emerges
Posted by: DeAnander on Oct 25, 2007 5:36 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
First the Feminazi anti-porn crusade, now this.

the parallels do seem kind of striking, but not perhaps in the way this poster intends. the enraged tantrums of meat eaters in response to mild-mannered veganist sermons seem to be mostly from men, and they seem very similar in tone to similar tantrums that get thrown whenever anyone dares to critique men's "right" to consume corporate porn (no matter how insulting or radically misogynist the content).

the common threads seem to be (a) entitlement and (b) gender, i.e. there is something "sissy" about vegetarianism and something "manly" about the stance of domination, predation, callous consumption w/o regard for the health or wellbeing of self or others. Real Men Don't Give a Sh*t -- or eat quiche, apparently, let alone tofu!

most Americans feel deeply entitled to elite privileges like car ownership, air travel and frequent meat eating... but male Americans in particular respond with not just race and class entitltement whining, but full-on emasculation panic, when anyone suggests that some of these consumption behaviours need to be scaled back to reduce the amount of suffering and deprivation experienced by others.

the usual online manifestion of gender panic in macho males is a fit of disproportionate rage decorated with lots of capital letters, misogynist/homophobic profanity, exclamation marks, and sub-tantrums of deliberately offensive text, as in "nyah nyah, I'm gonna gross you out and you can't stop me so there." references to the threatening subversive critic as a Nazi are by now obligatory -- despite the fact that the real-life Nazis were raving anti-feminists, swooningly in love with masculinity and militarism, and mostly (except for Herr H himself) very keen on Bratwurst and similar he-man fare.

it's not so much the specific content that's interesting as the pattern, which suggests that vegans, like carfree activitists, antiwar activitsts, etc., need to engage deeply with a political analysis of gender (aka radical feminism?) if they hope to understand why some people are so deeply threatened by the very existence or utterance of their dissident ideas. war, meat eating, big dangerous cars, and insulting women with impunity, all are significant elements of Masculinity 2.0 (TM), global corporate model -- and for those who invest their gender identity in any of these traditional bank accounts, the very mention of the word "audit" causes an instant defensive hissyfit.

I doubt you'll find a "Hungry Man" frozen meal that doesn't feature meat.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Hitler WASN'T a vegetarian Posted by: vasumurti
» the sexual politics of meat Posted by: vasumurti
» Deanander Posted by: footman
Amazing Attitudes
Posted by: nikkie on Oct 25, 2007 5:39 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The sum of what is posted here demonstrates the amount of knowledge that has been lost in recent history and the shocking lack of knowledge, or disinformation, that characterizes the standards of modern man. He is the disfigurement of natural law and truth, and the product of heinous desire.

It's amazing to see the reaction of people to such a simple and sane suggestion; especially the men who react with panic in their voice. It’s as reactive as homophobia. And I phrase it that way to purposely evoke the expected response.

Men, as boys, typically unfold with the prevailing attitude that girls are exceedingly gross and that never in a million years would they acquiesce to the feminine allure. This is simply an attitude that’s adjusted with time. Giving up dependency on animal is a process of growing up and embracing a larger representation of the feminine as manifest in the mother earth. Look how silly we humans act. We are the only species in the world that drinks the milk of another. Our consumption of dairy on that level is not part of the plan for the human body and indeed it poisons the body as massively as its production poisons the earth. Yet, in pure simple terms, surely one can realize how difficult it is to grow up if one is never weaned off of milk.

Humans have advanced physically, mentally and spiritually only because of the seed. The story about meat eating advancing any cause other than havoc is an evolutionary fairy tale that has been totally debunked. And in case you're not aware of it the seed represents both the grain that we plant and the grain that we reap. It symbolizes in every respect the cycle of existence and improvement. It is this pattern that gives man the ability to stand on his legs and raise his seed (his mind) to the heavens and identify his spirit. The further one strays from that equation the greater calamity in health, environment and war they will invite. This is simple history.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Amazing Blindness Posted by: rastaman10
Holy shit
Posted by: Ayla87 on Oct 25, 2007 6:02 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You all care way to damn much about this issue. An article about vegatarianism doesn't warrant this much backlash. I don't mean the few commenters who were mature enough to critisize the piece appropriately, I'm refering to the people telling vegatarians to go to hell, and claiming that they're 'insulted'. How do you get that insulted and outraged over a biased article that is so poorly written, that it can only be published on the internet?

A teenager died this month in state sponsored boot camp. He was punched, pinned to the ground and and suffacated on video tape. The men who beat him, and the nurse that did nothing to help him, all got off scot free. I think there are more important things in this world to be angry about than some preachy vegatarians.

Seriously, what the hell is wrong with you!?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Holy shit Posted by: footman
» RE: Holy shit Posted by: Ayla87
global hunger
Posted by: vasumurti on Oct 25, 2007 6:33 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Global hunger could be directly attributed to meat-eating." ---Chrissie Hynde

Half the world's population does not receive an adequate amount of food to eat. Ten to twenty million die annually of hunger and its effects. The Institute for Food and Development Policy reports that, "Forty thousand children starve to death on this planet every day," or one child every two seconds.

The livestock population of the United States today consumes enough grain and soybeans to feed over five times the entire human population of the country. We feed these animals over 80% of the corn we grow, and over 95% of the oats. Less than half the harvested agricultural acreage in the United States is used to grow food for people. Most of it is used to grow livestock feed.

Ronald J. Sider of Evangelicals for Social Action, in his 1977 book, Rich Christians in an Age of Hunger, pointed out that 220 million Americans were eating enough food (largely because of the high consumption of grain-fed livestock) to feed over one billion people in the poorer countries.

The world's cattle alone, not to mention pigs and chickens, consume a quantity of food equal to the caloric needs of 8.7 billion people--nearly double the entire human population of the planet. It takes 16 pounds of grain to produce one pound of beef.

According to Department of Agriculture statistics, one acre of land can grow 20,000 pounds of potatoes. That same acre of land, if used to grow cattle feed, can produce less than 165 pounds of beef.

In his book, The Hungry Planet, Georg Bergstrom points out that protein-starved underdeveloped nations export more protein to wealthy nations than they receive. He calls this "the protein swindle." Ninety percent of the world's fish meal catch, for example, is exported to rich countries.

One-third of Africa's peanut crop winds up in the stomachs of European livestock. Half the world's cereal crop is fed to livestock and the United States annually imports one million tons of vegetable protein from Third World nations--just to feed its farm animals.

Bergstrom writes:

"Sometimes one wonders how many Americans and Western Europeans have grasped the fact that quite a few of their beef steaks, quarts of milk, dozens of eggs, and hundreds of broilers are the result, not of their agriculture, but of the approximately two million metric tons of protein, mostly of high quality, which astute Western businessmen channel away from the needy and hungry."

Jeremy Rifkin, President of the Foundation on Economic Trends, writes:

"Cattle and other livestock are devouring much of the grain produced on the planet. It need be emphasized that this is a new phenomenon, unlike anything ever experienced before.

"Contrary to popular belief, the poor are getting poorer each year...Increased poverty has meant increased malnutrition. On the African continent, nearly one in every four human beings is malnourished.

"In Latin America, nearly one out of every seven people goes to bed hungry each night. In Asia and the Pacific, 28 percent of the people border on starvation, experiencing the gnawing pain of a perpetual hunger.

"In the Near East, one in ten people is underfed. Chronic hunger now affects upwards of 1.3 billion people, according to the world Health Organization--a statistic all the more striking in a world where one third of all the grain produced is being fed to cattle and other livestock. Never before in human history has such a large percentage of our species--nearly 25 percent--been malnourished.

"The transition of world agriculture from food grain to feed grains represents an evil whose consequences may be far greater and longer lasting than any past examples of violence inflicted by men against their fellow human beings."

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: global hunger Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: global hunger Posted by: footman
Be practical here
Posted by: lamar on Oct 25, 2007 8:25 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Well, comment #282 isn't going to make any waves.

Eat vegetarian because it makes you feel better. If you don't want to give up meat, then don't. It's still a good idea to significantly cut down on your meat intake. You'll feel better, and I don't mean in some global citizen way. I mean the foods you eat will give you more energy and weigh you down less.

There's a decent cookbook called the Flexitarian Table. It's a little bit NYC snooty, but its a good start. There's no way that I'm ever giving up meat, but a nice steak is really awesome when I don't eat burgers everyday. And I don't miss that giant mass of fat on my stomach either. The slightly smaller mass of fat now residing there does just fine.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» enough Posted by: vasumurti
Now I know what is wrong with this country
Posted by: dustdevil on Oct 25, 2007 8:40 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This article about the advantages of vegetarianism has created more heated response than all the other articles about important problems such as our corrupt government, the Iraq war, the threat of war with iran, the presidential race, global warming, e-voting fraud and California wildfires. Americans are just shallow. Their small brains are controlled by their huge stomachs.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Why are the vast majority of food articles about vegetarianism?
Posted by: boygranddakar on Oct 25, 2007 9:04 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Reasonable (and unreasonable) people can disagree about what diet is best for health, for the environment, and for an ethical lifestyle. My partner is vegan because he does not want to be responsible for the deaths of any animals, period. I am an omnivore, because I simply cannot thrive on a vegetarian or vegan diet (this is even more the case now that I am pregnant). I eat meat a few times a week, I ensure that it is ethically raised, I buy it as often as possible from local farms, and I donate to the Humane Farming Association every year.

My partner and I respect each others' choices, which is more than I can say about most people who have posted here.

I wish that AlterNet would publish food articles that present a variety of leftist/progressive ideas. The vast majority of AlterNet food articles seem to promote vegetarianism -- not only that, but they attempt to convert others to vegetarianism as well. But vegetarianism isn't the only diet for progressives. Why aren't there more articles presenting other points of view?

As is obvious from the comments here, people don't take well to being lectured about their food choices. For health reasons, for reasons of heritage and traditional foods, for environmental reasons, and for the love of a good burger, people conscientiously choose to continue to eat meat. Vegetarians can live by example and present their reasons for eschewing meat but should refrain from trying to convert others. It's about as welcome as missionaries.

And AlterNet needs to diversify their food articles.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Is vegetarianism really a solution?
Posted by: jaby on Oct 25, 2007 9:16 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Maybe instead of excluding food groups, we should start by not eating so much freaking food! We eat too much of everything (except maybe fruits and veggies, but I know people who eat too many of those too). According to the UN Food and Agriculture, we Americans eat almost 4,000 calories per day! That's more than twice what an average person needs to be healthy! No wonder we are fat and out-of-shape and causing whole-sale destruction of the environment. We are, collectively, eating for two.

linked text

What would the environmental impact be if we merely started eating an appropriate amount? What animals could be saved, how much pesticide could we prevent from being sprayed on our land, how much excess nitrogen and heavy metals could we keep out of our waters if we just ate what we needed to eat? We'd lose weight, save money on health costs and keeping money out of the hands of pharmaceutical companies and insurance companies. Indeed, nearly every benefit that the author attributed to a vegetarian diet would also be a benefit of just eating less.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Sorry but... Posted by: footman
» RE: Sorry but... Posted by: jaby
» RE: Sorry but... Posted by: footman
Sorry but it is UNTRUE that vegetarianism works for everyone
Posted by: wireup on Oct 25, 2007 10:39 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am the former owner (for 8 years) of a natural food store. During those years, I was a vegetarian 3 times, each for a number of years. Twice I was lacto-ovo and once I was vegan.

In spite of the fact that my heart is vegetarian, my body refused to go along. DIET FOR A SMALL PLANET was my bible but vegetarianism simply did NOT work for me. I was constantly protein-deficient and EXCESSIVELY low in energy.

I don't care HOW many people proclaim it as the solution to all problems. Many people simply canNOT be vegetarians. It doesn't matter that that is what I prefer. My body will NOT allow me to be a vegetarian. And I know from my experiences that this is true of others as well.

So, enough already! If you're fortunate to be able to sustain a vegetarian lifestyle, I envy you. But stop condeming those of us who are unable to exist in any meaningfully healthy way without meat. For many of us, it just can't be done!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

I Love Vegans
Posted by: drblack on Oct 26, 2007 12:40 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I love vegans.....I won't eat anything else.
America was supposed to be a FREE country. I know , Bush has truly ended American Freedom.
If you want to refrain from eating meat great. Try to force anyone else and I will fight back.
The world is overpopulated. I regard children as a curse and people who have them as selfish, nasty and unable to use their higher intellect to counter their genetic programming to reproduce.
I am not going to force people (and trying to pass laws is forcing) to not have kids.
I will not make up fake stuff like the silly idea of "second hand smoke" that some fanatics have shoved down the collective mind to get their way.
It is the variety of things people do, believe, etc that make life interesting.
I still feel that by lowering the Earth's population of Human animals we will end the majority of problems we face as the Human race.
I had a great T0Bone today and a big bowel of mussels and i will continue to eat meat as well as all other food.
Humans physiology shows that we were designed to eat what ever we could catch.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Having Kids worse than eating meat
Posted by: drblack on Oct 26, 2007 12:57 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Having children and being a vegan is WAY more destructive to the planet than being a meat eater who doesn't have kids.
Don't have kids and die quick and fast. This is better for the planet if that is your #1 priority.
There is no shortage of humans. Do you drive a car? Do you live in a large house? Do you use energy for frivolous activities?
Overpopulation is ,without any doubt or question, the most destructive to the Earth's enviroment.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Soy isn't all it's cracked up to be...
Posted by: Gisele on Oct 26, 2007 1:49 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
especially for those who have breast cancer - or those who are at high risk for it. If it really were all its supposed to be (according to some)..being warned of that fact wouldn't be the first question asked when assessing the diets of someone with that disease.

Quite simply, there's a lot of brainwashing going on - reminiscent of big pharma. This link is only one of many, you may find it interesting: Here

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Buddhism and Vegetarianism
Posted by: vasumurti on Oct 26, 2007 8:46 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The first precept of Buddhism is: "Do not kill, but rather preserve and cherish all life." There is an ancient poem, reputed to be the only text ever written by the Buddha himself, which states:

"Let creatures all, all things that live, all beings of whatever kind, see nothing that will bode them ill. May naught of evil come to them."

The Buddhist emperor Ashoka (268-223 BC) declared in one of his famous Pillar Edicts: "I have enforced the law against killing certain animals..The greatest progress of Righteousness among men comes from the exhortation in favor of non-injury to life and abstention from killing living beings."

Mahayana Buddhism supports the vegetarian way of life. According to the Mahaparinirvana Sutra: "The eating of meat extinguishes the seed of great compassion."

The Lankavatara Sutra says:

"For the sake of love of purity, the bodhisattva should refrain from eating flesh, which is born from semen, blood, etc. For fear of causing terror to living beings let the bodhisattva, who is disciplining himself to attain compassion, refrain from eating flesh...It is not true that meat is proper food and permissible when the animal was not killed by himself, when he did not order others to kill it, when it was not specifically meant for him...Again, there may be some people in the future who...being under the influence of the taste for meat will string together in various ways many sophisticated arguments to defend meat-eating...But...meat-eating in any form, in any manner, and in any place is unconditionally and once and for all prohibited...Meat-eating I have not permitted to anyone, I do not permit, I will not permit..."

The Surangama Sutra says:

"The reason for practicing dhyana and seeking to attain samadhi is to escape from the suffering of life. But in seeking to escape from suffering ourselves, why should we inflict it upon others? Unless you can control your minds that even the thought of brutal unkindness and killing is abhorrent, you will never be able to escape from the bondage of the world's life...After my parinirvana in the final kalpa different kinds of ghosts will be encountered everywhere deceiving people and teaching them that they can eat meat and still attain enlightenment...How can a bhikshu, who hopes to become a deliverer of others, himself be living on the flesh of other sentient beings?"

The Dalai Lama once said:

"I do not see any reason why animals should be slaughtered to serve as human diet when there are so many substitutes. After all, man can live without meat."

For further reading:

Dr. Tony Page, Buddhism and Animals
Norm Phelps, The Great Compassion: Buddhism and Animal Rights
Steven Rosen, Diet for Transcendence

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

save the planet
Posted by: vasumurti on Oct 26, 2007 9:27 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I've been vegetarian since 1982. I attended my first anti-vivisection protest in the spring of 1985, as anti-apartheid demonstrations rocked the UC San Diego campus. I first got interested in promoting vegetarianism in mainstream society after reading John Robbins' Diet for a New America (1987). Nominated for a Pulitzer Prize, it makes veganism seem as reasonable and mainstream as recycling.

Half the water consumed in the U.S. goes to irrigate land growing feed and fodder for livestock. Huge amounts of water are used to wash away their excrement. U.S. livestock produce 20 times as much excrement as does the entire human population; creating sewage which is ten to several hundred times more concentrated than raw domestic sewage.

Animal wastes cause 10 times more water pollution than does the U.S. human population; the meat industry causes 3 times as much harmful organic water pollution than the rest of the nation's industries combined. Meat producers, the number one industrial polluters in our nation, contribute to half the water pollution in the United States.

Joanna Macy, author of Despair and Personal Power in the Nuclear Age, depicts America moving towards a vegan diet in her foreword to Diet for a New America:

"The effects on our physical health are immediate. The incidence of cancer and heart attack, the nation's biggest killers, drops precipitously. So do many other diseases now demonstrably and causally linked to consumption of animal proteins and fats, such as osteoporosis...

"The social, ecological, and economic consequences, as we Americans turn away from animal food products, are equally remarkable. We find that the grain we previously fed to fatten livestock can now feed 5 times the U.S. population; so we have become able to alleviate malnutrition and hunger on a worldwide scale...

"The great forests of the world, that we had been decimating for grazing purposes, begin to grow again. Oxygen-producing trees are no longer sacrificed for cholesterol-producing steaks.

"The water crisis eases. As we stop raising and grinding up cattle for hamburgers, we discover that ranching and farm factories had been the major drain on our water resources. The amount now available for irrigation and hydroelectric power doubles. Meanwhile, the change in diet frees over 90% of the fossil fuel previously used to produce food.

"With this liberation of water energy and fossil fuel energy, our reliance on oil imports declines, as does the rationale for building nuclear power plants..."

Joanna Macy admits, "This scenario is wildly, absurdly utopian. It is also clearly the way we are meant to live, built to live." What could possibly make it a reality? "It is this very book!"

Paul McCartney says, "If anyone wants to save the planet, all they have to do is just stop eating meat. That's the single most important thing you could do. It's staggering when you think about it. Vegetarianism takes care of so many things in one shot: ecology, famine, cruelty. Let's do it! Linda was right. Going veggie is the single best idea for the new century."

The number of animals killed for food in the United States is 70 times larger than the number of animals killed in laboratories, 30 times larger than the number killed by hunters and trappers, and 500 times larger than the number of animals killed in pounds. If Americans reduced their meat consumption by just 10 percent, it would release enough grain and soybeans to feed over 60 million people.

When I first read Diet for a New America, I thought it could have the same kind of impact on mainstream American society that Frances Moore Lappe's Diet for a Small Planet had in the '70s.

John Robbins spoke before the United Nations in 1994, where he received a standing ovation.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

FUCK OFF WITH THE VEGGIE CRAP
Posted by: Jordonquits on Oct 26, 2007 11:26 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This article is absolute crap. It gives the legitimate left a bad name as it portrays us all as a bunch of vegan hippy idiots. All the claims made in this article are extremely suspect. There are good health reasons to cut back on red meat, and eat leaner meat in general, but beyond that, the claims made by veggies are bullshit. Fruits and vegetables have chemicals on them too you idiots. You can get organically grown, pesticide free, vegetables; however you can also get hormone free meat. People evolved to eat meat, don't you think its probably a bit stupid to think that cutting meat out of your diet entirely is a good idea?! If you really don't like eating animals because you don't want to cause their suffering, then whatever. I guess its noble, if a bit immature (animals eat other animals, its how the world works, get off your high horses), but don't preach about it. Alternet's focus on vegetarianism, animal rights, and other crusades of the faux-left is really pissing me off. Stick to the issues that matter.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: FUCK OFF WITH THE VEGGIE CRAP Posted by: Jordonquits
Folks, this has gone above and beyond - I think we have a meta-issue!
Posted by: jparsons on Oct 26, 2007 12:15 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Probably most of the readers have gone elsewhere, but the
response to this article has been very instructive.

Going past the validity of the article - my opinion is that each
point is worth your time to research fully, not just jump to
conclusions based on a very short and necessarily incomplete
piece - the heated reactions to it are well out of logical
proportion.

Why is a suggestion of a change in diet to reduce/remove meat so specifically threatening?
Contrast this with another example - recently Alternet posted
a couple of articles on house sizes (another lifestyle choice).
One pointed out how the increasing house sizes were bad
for the environment simply due to their size, and another was
a nifty little piece on some nifty little tiny houses.

I bet plenty of readers live in pretty sizeable houses, more
than absolutely necessary and then some.
But there was no outcry against "preaching", no "don't tell
me how to live, MuFu!". Nor, "man was evolved to conquer as
much territory as possible so they better not restrict my
house size or I'll fight!" Nobody claimed the writers and
publishers of the article were giving the "legitimate left" a
bad name.

No stories came out of the woodwork saying, "I tried living in
a smaller house, but I got so claustrophobic and depressed -
I couldn't get any space to myself and the kids hated it - so
it's not for everyone so don't condemn us when we can't do
it!"

No, readers pretty much took it in stride, as informational
and interesting and worth considering perhaps when you
make your next housing purchase. We certainly didn't have
the abuse explosion that the vegetarianism topic produced.

Even articles on eating organic don't provoke this backlash,
although I'm sure I'm not the only one here who finds it hard
to "afford" buying everything organic.

What is it about the "right to eat meat" that gets so many
so het up?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Here's The Ridiculous Response I see...
Posted by: dearOread on Oct 26, 2007 2:19 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Vegetarian: YAY! We're better human beings! GO US! Meat eaters are MEAN!

Omnivore: Booo! SCREW YOU MAN! I DO WHAT I WANT! SCREW YOU ASSHOLES!

...you know why I come here...? well, IT SURE AS HELL IS NOT FOR THE INTELLIGENT, MATURE DISCUSSION, that's for sure!
Get a fucking grip, all of you. Who. Cares. Find something more productive to do. Fold laundry or something. Don't be a judgmental douchebag, it's just not worth the energy.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Pot to kettle! Posted by: YogiBear
When I became a vegetarian-twenty five years ago-
Posted by: WitchyNy on Oct 26, 2007 4:10 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I did not realize I would lose the craving for meat.

I think meat is addictive-the way heroin and tobacco and alcohol are. I think these huge violent responses in the posts here are proof of that. I also think there is huge guilt with meat eating that is telling in these comments. The addict defending his addiction. Also it is interesting that men crave meat more than most women.

Of all the things I have been accused of being in my life-a Radical, a Feminist, a Communist, a Witch, a Lesbian, a Hippie, .....it is being a Vegetarian that has caused the most violent outrage. My two sons were raised vegetarian. Now as men, they don't crave meat. And yes, they are big and strong and healthy and smart.

This is supposed to be a progressive site. I don't see eating meat as progressive. Especially when we are talking about the horrid way most meat is produced today. We do eat eggs and goat milk and cheese-from our own well cared for and loved animals. If people actually ate what they grew-there would be far less meat eaters.
If you really insist on eating corporate produced meat, you should at least be honest enought to visit a slaughterhouse first. That is a sure way to put off your meat craving for a while. And then-

Why don't you try it---see if you lose the craving. If you don't care-if social progress and humane treatment for all living creatures and our environment are not important issues to you-why are you posting on Alternet? Would you not be more happy posting on the Rush L. site?

'You know that what you eat you are'-Lennon and McCartney

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Desert Posted by: WitchyNy
» RE: Desert Posted by: footman
» Matti : Posted by: footman
Defensive explanation from a threatened meateater
Posted by: Jarmadi on Oct 26, 2007 6:11 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Number 13 on the list above states that 10 % of the yearly American food spending goes for meat. She also claims that substituting vegetables, grains, and fruits for the 200 lb of meat in the average per capita American diet would save $4,000 on each individual's annual food expense. Assuming that one would be saving about 1/2 of that 10% expense, then it seems that the usual cost of that 200 lb of meat would have been $8,000.........or only $40/lb. By not eating this 200 lb of meat, he would have cut his annual individual food expenses from $80,000 to $76,000 per year. Impressive.......and a family of four ex-meateaters would save $16,000 on their $320,000 annual food budget.

Now I'm not claiming to be completely free of defensiveness.....and I guess my sexuality can be threatened by any combination of sharp knives and angry vegan women, but can the supporters of this Alternet article understand how it seems that this author is merrily pulling facts and statistics out of her ass.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» ZING! Posted by: footman
people don't eat grass, they smoke it
Posted by: throck on Oct 26, 2007 10:14 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Most of our environment is covered in grass. People cannot digest grass. Cows convert grass into digestible protein that people can eat. "Environmental" vegetarians seem to promote converting whats left of our natural environment into farmland to produce plant-based food when cows and other grazing animals feed us on what is naturally available. Vegetables as we know them are produced by making plants grow in places they never have in unnatural populations by using technology that nature never intended. Ranchers use the resources already there to produce human food and have a vested interest in maintaining the environment. If a rancher runs out of grass, she goes broke. As omnivores we need vegetables as well as meat, but environmental arguments for vegetarianism fall flat. Eat beef, keep slim.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Twilight Zone
Posted by: vasumurti on Oct 27, 2007 10:38 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In his 1987 Pulitzer Prize nominated book, Diet for a New America, author John Robbins writes:

"We do not usually see ourselves as members of a flesh-eating cult. But all the signs of a cult are there. Many of us are afraid to even consider other diet-style choices, afraid to leave the safety of the group, afraid when there isn't any evidence that might reveal that the god of animal protein isn't quite all it's cracked up to be.

"Members of the Great American Steak Religion frequently become worried if their family or friends show any signs of disenchantment. A mother may be more worried if her son or daughter becomes a vegetarian than if they take up smoking."

Perhaps it's because of the stereotype of vegetarianism (rather than meat-eating) being associated with "cults" that meat-eaters react with apprehension. There was an episode from the original Twilight Zone series in which a visitor from another planet comes to Earth and is gunned down, out of fear, in a rural village. It turns out the visitor was coming to Earth with good news: a cure for cancer.

With vegetarianism, we have a cure for cancer, heart disease, overpopulation, environmental devastation, etc. And yet, the meat-eaters react with fear.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Vegetarianism, Skepticism and the American Diet
Posted by: cgfiend on Oct 27, 2007 12:29 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Six months ago I was diagnosed with gall stones. The doctor wanted me to get them removed. I had been having pains off and on for years and always thought it was food poisoning or gas. I decided to look at the cause of the problem instead of having my gall bladder ripped out. You guessed it, the cause of gall stones is improper diet.

I did the research and along the way I came across the following information:

China Study (book) - A 20 year study that shows cancer and other diseases (like heart disease) are directly related to aminal protein in the diet. The American diet being the worst, which is why so many people in our country are dying.

Heart Attack Proof (book) - A heart surgeon that found he could eliminate heart disease in patients by removing aminal consumption from the diet, as well as bad fats. You can also find information at http://www.heartattackproof.com/

Eat To Live (book) - Another physician that has treated thousands of patients, reversing disease and obesity with a proper diet. http://www.drfuhrman.com/

The truth is animal protein causes cancer. Humans are only supposed to eat 10% or less meat in their diet. It has been shown that animal protein is the main cause of cancers and heart disease. Eating too much meat (and protein) builds up toxins in the body. When the body is fighting to get rid of so much toxins it can't been up, so disease develops. Doctors would have you take pills to treat a disease, but wouldn't you think the logical solution to be to find the source of the problem (diet) and change that instead?

You're only fooling yourself if you think you're immune to disease eating a meat diet. Do the research and find out for yourself. Once you see what these foods are doing to your body you might think twice.

Getting back to my own story. I was eating anything and everything. Most of it was fast food. Meat made up the majority of my diet. At 5'8" I weighed in at 214 lbs when I got my diagnosis. I decided to change my diet and keep my gall bladder instead of getting it cut out and continuing my bad eating habits.

I've been on a vegetarian diet for 6 weeks now. I'm down to 193 and falling. Bowel movements are much easier and look a lot cleaner. There's been a big reduction in sweat oder and stool odor (toxins in the body). I feel great. I've lost my cravings for meat. I no longer drink pop or coffee. And most important, I haven't had a single gall bladder attack since.

I eat fruits and vegetables, whole grains and beans. It's that simple. I've eliminated most oils from my diet (cause heart disease).

The truth is you can be disease free and a normal healthy weight if you eat properly. I challenge anyone in denial to look at themselves in the mirror naked and try to convince themselves they're eating a healthy diet. Smell your underarm. Think of the nasty odor when you're on the pot. This is a sure sign your body has way too many toxins and you're setting yourself up for disease and premature death.

You don't have to believe me. Do the research yourself. I recommend you read the books I listed. They're eye openers.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Who Wants To Listen To Religious Hacks
Posted by: DrColes on Oct 27, 2007 1:59 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They are nothing but "religious" hacks/zelots.
http://www.inteliorg.com/what_to_believe_in_helth_care.htm

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Be careful
Posted by: luckypablo on Oct 27, 2007 2:31 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Having been a vegan for 10 years, I must warn of the dangers of soy products. It ruins your thyroid. There is much research coming out on the dangers of soy consumption. The Asian countries process out the poisons in soy much more effectively than America. They also don't eat that much of it. It is part of their diet, but not a mainstay like it is for many U.S. vegetarians. My wife and I developed thyroid problems that have only been attributed to high consumption of soy. If you are going to be a vegetarian, watch your soy consumption. Though I would give serious pause to even recommend becoming a vegetarian of any kind as it is unnatural and unhealthy.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Cruel and wasteful?
Posted by: maestra on Oct 27, 2007 6:00 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Actually, if meat animals are well looked after and allowed to live outdoors, eat naturally, etc, their sacrifice is a lot less cruel and wasteful than that of the variety of wildlife killed in the course of agriculture. At least meat animals are eaten. The number of birds, rabbits, and other wildlife killed very cruelly by poisons and farm machinery is huge, and entirely wasteful. One cow will feed many people...

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Vegeterianism and low energy
Posted by: getoutofiraqnow on Oct 28, 2007 8:13 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I don't know if anyone will bother reading so far down but I'll write anyway!

I became a vegetarian about five years back which also meant (in my case at least) that I became conscious of "nutritious" foods not just eating some fast food when hungry. My health improved drastically, and quite quickly too. Before that, I would always suffer from fatigue, fevers, infections... all that went away.
Now of course, you can argue that the "nutritious" food did it, not necessarily vegetarian food. Quite possible. But here's what I do want to add, and this is with respect to a post above, that after switching to a veg. diet, the person's been low on energy. Here's what I have to say to that:

Right now I am pregnant, in my third trimester, and have been extremely nauseous for the whole 8 months! Which has meant eating less in terms of quantity than I did before I was pregnant!!! Yes I know that is hard to believe, but that's a fact. However, the much smaller portions have been offset by a protein rich diet - and no, there's not a bit of the highly toxic soy protein isolate in my diet either! I am unable to digest milk directly, so I have great chunks of "paneer" (a home-made Indian cheese made from low or zero fat milk and yogurt) and some cheese, with whatever little amount of whole grains and lentils I can eat. I have a full-time job, and I am managing quite well - all with my vegetarian diet!
So before you blame vegetarianism for low energy, you need to figure out what exactly is a part of your diet - there has to be a balanced diet, and if you have low energy, it might simply mean you will need to increase certain components that would provide the necessary energy, not that you need to change over to eating meat again!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

The Myths of Vegetarianism
Posted by: Lezley on Oct 28, 2007 6:21 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Take a look at the following web pages..
http://www.westonaprice.org/tour/vegtourindex.html and
http://www.westonaprice.org/bookreviews/chinastudy.html
and remember you can't compare free range cattle, lamb, buffalo, or wild venison meats to those raised in the barbaric grain fed big money cattle farms which are used to obtain most of the stats. in favor of vegetarianism....Remember, when looking at statistics...
"Figures never lie, but liars often figure."
Keep in mind your ethnic heritage, your physical activity, your ethical beliefs and the cleanliness of the food you eat when deciding upon a diet best for you.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Pythagoras (570-470 BC)
Posted by: vasumurti on Oct 28, 2007 10:57 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Pythagoras was born on the island colony of Samos. Historian Dr. Martin A. Larson describes him as “A universal genius...He made important contributions to music and astronomy; he was a metaphysician, a natural philosopher, a social revolutionary, a political organizer, and the universal theologian. He was one of those all-embracing intellects which appears at rare intervals.”

Pythagoras’ biographer Diogenes Laertius records that he did not “neglect medicine;” his followers contributed to medical wisdom. In the history of religion, Pythagoras was the first person to teach the concepts of reincarnation, heaven and hell to the Western world.

Diogenes Laertius writes that Pythagoras warned that all who did not accept his teachings would suffer torment in the afterlife, while promising his followers the spiritual kingdom. According to the early Christian father Eusebius: “Pythagoras...declared...that the doctrines which he had received...were a personal revelation to himself from God.”

The Pythagoreans soon became numerous and powerful enough to take political power without having to resort to force or violence. History shows that when the Pythagoreans were attacked and massacred in Magna Grecia in 450 BC, they practiced nonviolence and did not resist their aggressors.

Ancient and modern historians alike acknowledge that Pythagoras was vegetarian. This was the conclusion of Plutarch, Ovid, Diogenes Laertius and Iamblichus in ancient times, and it is the conclusion of scholars today. Nor was vegetarianism loosely connected with the Pythagorean philosophy—it was an integral part of it.

“Oh, my fellow men!” exclaimed Pythagoras. “Do not defile your bodies with sinful foods. We have corn. We have apples bending down the branches with their weight, and grapes swelling on the vines. There are sweet flavored herbs and vegetables which can be cooked and softened over the fire. Nor are you denied milk or thyme-scented honey. The earth affords you a lavish supply of riches, of innocent foods, and offers you banquets that involve no bloodshed or slaughter.”

Pythagoras’ meals consisted of honeycomb, millet or barley bread, and vegetables. He would pay fishermen to throw their catch back into the sea. Ironically, he claimed to have been a fisherman in a previous life. He abhorred animal sacrifice and wine, and would only sacrifice cakes, honey, and frankincense to the gods. He revered the altar at Delos because it was free from blood sacrifices. Upon it, he offered flour, meal, and cakes made without the use of fire. Pythagoras would not associate with cooks or hunters.

According to Iamblichus, Pythagoras taught his followers not to kill even a flea, especially in a temple. He not only showed respect for gods, humans, and animals, but also for the trees, which were not to be destroyed, unless absolutely necessary. It is said Pythagoras pet an eagle, told an ox not to trample a bean field, and fed a ferocious bear barley and acorns, telling it not to attack humans any more.

Pythagoras not only taught reincarnation, but even claimed to remember his previous lives. It is said Pythagoras once stopped a man from beating a dog, because in the dog’s yelping he recognized the voice of an old friend.

The famous “Pythagorean theorem” is now known to have been mathematical knowledge long before Pythagoras. Square roots and cube roots and the “Pythagorean” theorem are mentioned in the Sulbha Sutras of Bodhayana, in India. (700 BC) Some scholars believe Pythagoras may have received his wisdom from the East.

There were two classes of Pythagoreans. The akousmatikoi heard the teachings, followed them to a degree, but were never initiated into the deeper levels of mysticism. The mathematikoi, by contrast, were strict Pythagoreans.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Vegetarians only to read please (and maybe Gilbert and Sullivan fans :-)
Posted by: jparsons on Oct 29, 2007 1:36 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Thought you might enjoy my winning entry for the recent local
World Vegetarian Day poetry competition....

(All thanks and apologies to Gilbert and Sullivan)

I am the very model of a modern vegetarian,
I once was briefly vegan and I’m dating a fruitarian
I read the veggie doctors and I quote the great nutritionists
And cheer the naughty antics of those PETA exhibitionists!
I argue meaty topics with the sceptics on the Internet
How can it be they still don’t know where all my protein comes from yet?
I tell my favourite anecdotes in my online community
And search for tasty recipes at every opportunity
(And search for tasty recipes at every oppor tuni tunity!)

And as for all those diets, I admit it only makes me groan
When I hear people quoting that infernal nonsense “In the Zone”
My fridge is full of wholesome veggie goodness; please, no carrion
I am the very model of a modern vegetarian!

I know the new four food groups and the new food veggie pyramid
I always read food labels well for those ingredients they hid
My shopping cart is full of green and leafy verdant foliage
And grains and beans and fruits we need for better health at any age
So many yummy meals and snacks, I hardly know where to begin,
I make banana smoothies mixed with wheat germ and with lecithin
Kids’ lunches are filled up with tofu sausage and with lentil sprouts,
The hummus dip that I whip up would win a contest, have no doubts
(The hummus dip that I whip up would win a contest, have no, have no doubts)

From oatmeal in the morning to my midnight snack of carrot cake
This way of life is right for me and that’s for certain - no mistake
And while I’m fully principled I’m not authoritarian
I am the very model of a modern vegetarian!

©Jessica Parsons 2007

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Book Review - Slightly Off Topic
Posted by: vasumurti on Oct 29, 2007 12:47 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Inside the Hare Krishna Movement:

An Ancient Eastern Religious Tradition
Comes of Age in the Western World

by Mukunda Goswami

Torchlight Publishing
279 pages
$19.95

In his book Inside the Hare Krishna Movement, Mukunda Goswami expertly discusses the relevance of Krishna Consciousness to modern life. Krishna devotees are depicted not as ascetics renouncing the material world, but as active participants in the world's affairs. Devotees are shown associating with and distributing books, prasadam (sacramental food) and the holy names to people from all walks of life, including celebrities and world leaders: Nelson Mandela, Yasser Arafat, Hayley Mills, Queen Elizabeth II, Prince Charles, Fidel Castro, Bill and Hilary Clinton, Jesse Jackson, Mother Teresa, etc.

Srila Prabhupada (A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami, the Hindu spiritual master who brought the 2,200 year old Vaishnavaite bhakti tradition to the West) said Krishna Consciousness is meant to "solve all problems of the world." (p. 53) According to Mukunda Goswami, "Srila Prabhupada had an agenda for social change. He sometimes addressed financial, social, and political issues."

The first lesson in Krishna Consciousness is that we are not these bodies--we are spirit souls. Social ills such as racism, sexism, caste-ism, nationalism and speciesism arise because eternal souls falsely identify with their temporary bodies. On the spiritual platform, we are all equal. (Bhagavad-gita 5.18) Herein lies the basis for a real "liberation theology."

Mukunda Goswami addresses social issues such as abortion, euthanasia and animal welfare and rights, demonstrating that Krishna Consciousness teaches a consistent ethic of nonviolence towards all life--protecting animals as well as unborn babies. He writes, "Governments...need to be educated about the health threats, environmental degradation, and karmic disasters inherent in the flesh-food industry."

According to Mukunda Goswami:

"Shortages appear because of humanity's greed and lack of knowledge, which breed negative karmic reactions. In Mauritius in 1975, Srila Prabhupada said that the earth could support ten times its population, and modern research has found this to be true.

"A study by the University of California's Division of Agricultural Science shows that by practicing the best agricultural methods available, the world's farmers could raise enough food to provide a non-meat centered diet for a world population thirty times greater than can presently be fed. Incidentally, switching to a vegetarian diet would also bring many environmental improvements--less air pollution, water pollution, and destruction of forests, to name a few.

"During his time with us," writes Mukunda Goswami, "Srila Prabhupada constantly encouraged widespread book distribution as the top priority. He indicated that these writings would gradually effect change...(the) transcendental literature about Lord Krishna brings about 'a revolution in...a misdirected civilization'...By distributing his books, one is taking part in the process of social change, the revolutionary method of making the material world God-centered and therefore more livable. This, according to Srila Prabhupada, is the highest welfare work."

Mukunda Goswami acknowledges that the future growth of Krishna Consciousness "...will depend to a large extent upon congregational development." (p. 197) And Inside the Hare Krishna Movement would be an excellent book for congregational members to share with friends, relatives and co-workers on the relevance of Krishna Consciousness to modern life. As a lay person, practicing since 1982, I am pleased to endorse this book, which is also available through Amazon.com.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» what else is new? Posted by: AdamG
» RE: what else is new? Posted by: vasumurti
» still much of the same Posted by: AdamG
» Go Veg: A Good Place to Start! Posted by: vasumurti
» killing animals/humans Posted by: vasumurti
» and another thing Posted by: AdamG
» RE: and another thing Posted by: vasumurti
» while we're at it... Posted by: AdamG
We can fight on multiple fronts
Posted by: MuddPi on Oct 30, 2007 4:19 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yes we have a war going on in Iraq but we also have a war going on against our planet and I think it behooves us to do everything in our capacity to fight against the latter because we are all going to be affected.
Nobody gets into a snit when groups write articles requesting that you exchange your lightbulbs for CFC's; walk, bike, use public transport more; recycle; donate blood; and make claims of the benefits. Why this article? What is it exactly that threatens you?
We as a nation are almost 60% obese. Clearly our dietary habits are amiss as are our exercise habits. Just what is wrong with calling a spade a spade?
It's as if one is snatching the pacifier out of a baby's mouth!!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

  • AlterNetYour turn

Support AlterNet
Do you value the information you're getting from AlterNet? Please show your support with a tax-deductible donation.


Feedback
Tell us how we're doing.

Advertisement
Advertisement