COMMENTS: 230
The Senate's 'Rebuke' to Bush's Iraq Policy Is a Blueprint for Ethnic Cleansing
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The clunkily named Biden-Brownback Iraq Federalism Bipartisan Amendment is the latest in a series of calls for a "soft partition" of Iraq into three semiautonomous regions -- split up according to ethnicity and sect -- that appear to be gaining currency in Washington. The idea, championed for more than a year by Sen. Joe Biden, D-Del., would leave a weak federal government in place in Baghdad to divvy up the oil revenues and maintain the country's borders.
Proponents of the plan deserve credit for understanding that there's no military solution to be found in Iraq -- that a political conflict requires a political fix. This already puts them miles ahead of the administration and defenders of the status quo, and they should be commended for seeking a practical way out of the mess created by the U.S. invasion.
But Iraqis do not live in neat enclaves; 4 million have already been forced to flee their homes by sectarian and separatist militias, and thousands more have been killed in the process. Whatever the intentions of the proponents of the plan might be, calling for more of the same is profoundly immoral, and doing so from the remote confines of Washington conference rooms is reminiscent of earlier eras in which Western powers carved up distant lands by drawing new lines on the map.
The Senate resolution created a firestorm of outrage among Iraq's political class and across the Middle East, which was duly noted by the U.S. media and then relegated to trivia, as is the custom when it comes to the opinions of the Empire's subjects.
Biden and other supporters of the plan claim that critics at home and abroad have misunderstood the amendment; the senator penned a "setting the record straight" piece on the Huffington Post last week. In it, he wrote that "the amendment will not produce 'bloodshed and suffering' in Iraq" but didn't address the argument. Instead, he dismissed it with a throwaway line more appropriate for someone advocating immediate withdrawal: "It is hard to imagine," he wrote, "more bloodshed and suffering than we've already seen, which has been exacerbated by the failure of Iraq's leaders to stop sectarian violence and produce a durable, widely accepted political settlement." He added: "More than 4 million Iraqis have already fled their homes for fear of sectarian violence, at a rate now of 100,000 every month." It's hard to read that as other than: "Ethnic cleansing is rampant, and therefore we should encourage them to finish the job quickly."
As Joost Hilterman of the International Crisis Group wrote:
Despite sectarian cleansing attempts, Iraqis remain deeply intermingled and intermarried in a mosaic that could be changed only through campaigns of intimidation and mass murder.The facts can't be ignored. According to a survey conducted last month for the BBC, half of all Iraqis surveyed said that they live in a mixed neighborhood, and about a third of those said that a "separating of people" according to sect had taken place in their communities. But the key finding, and one that speaks directly to the "soft" partition plan, is that 7 out of 10 people who said that "separation" had occurred in their area said that it had been "mainly forcible" in nature. That is, in ordinary discourse, known as ethnic cleansing.
There's no getting around that.
Supporters of the plan claim that Iraq is an "artificial state" cobbled together by colonial powers, and that Iraqis have little in the way of national identity. This is one of those narratives that's as wrong as it is popular; Iraq has long existed as a nation of people with a powerful shared identity and a collective history that goes back 7,000 years. Iraqis weren't a collection of foreigners shipped to Iraq by the British -- they were living there long before the "artificial line" was drawn around them, just as the Egyptians, and dozens of other peoples around the world, had existed for thousands of years before their current borders were drawn.
Biden also disputes the charge that the Senate's partition plan is an example of foreign meddling: "The amendment is not a foreign imposition," he writes. "Iraqis already have made the decision to decentralize in their Constitution and federalism law."
[The amendment] calls for helping Iraqis implement their own Constitution, which provides for any of Iraq's 18 provinces to form regions, and sets out the extensive powers of those regions and the limited powers of the central government.That obscures the fact that Iraqis are still modifying and rewriting their Constitution, and that the conflict over which type of federalism will become the law of the land is still splitting the Iraqi political class. While the prime minister and his cabinet favor a model that would allow the creation of powerful regional governments, a majority in the Iraqi parliament are supporting a federal system based on Iraq's 18 existing governates -- a system based on geographic rather than sectarian lines that would keep the central government in charge of the country's economical and political decisions.
Biden says that "the amendment [does not] call for dividing Iraq along sectarian lines," but that's a sleight of hand: The amendment passed by the Senate doesn't say as much explicitly, but the plan that Biden developed, along with the Council on Foreign Relations' Leslie Gelb -- the plan that he has been pushing in Washington and Baghdad since last May -- is explicit in it's call for division along ethnosectarian lines, saying its central tenet is "giving Kurds, Shiites and Sunnis local control over their daily lives."
The reason the Iraqi Constitution was ambiguous on the point of federalism, saying that the provinces may seek more authority, was that the negotiators couldn't come to an agreement on the issue -- it created an irreconcilable point of friction between Iraqi separatists and nationalists (a conflict we've discussed in more detail elsewhere). The vaguely worded provision was agreeable because it was not actionable; the fledgling Iraqi government punted the issue down the field for later consideration. The constitution rewriting committee, still working to this day to rewrite the constitution as a major step toward reconciliation, has not reached a conclusion on this deeply divisive question.
Biden implies -- and this is parroted by most supporters of the plan -- that Iraqis themselves favor the idea. That couldn't be further from the truth; significant majorities of all of Iraq's major ethnic and sectarian groups favor a strong central government. When asked by the BBC: "Do you think the separation of people on sectarian lines is a good thing or a bad thing for Iraq?" a conclusive 98 percent said it was a "bad thing." When asked what kind of government they wanted, Iraqis favored "one unified Iraq with a central government in Baghdad" over "a group of regional states with their own regional governments and a federal government in Baghdad" by more than 2 to 1.
Biden insists that Iraq's leaders are with him, despite condemnations from the heads of most of Iraq's political parties. When we reached Nadim al-Jaberi, head of the Shiite nationalist Al-Fadhila Party, he told us that most Iraqis oppose the plan because they understand that Iraq's conflict is primarily political rather than sectarian. "The majority of the Iraqi parliament and the majority of Iraqis are against splitting Iraq into three regions," he said.
The sentiment is likely to be codified soon: Saleh Al-Mutlaq, head of the National Dialogue Front -- a secular party -- told us by phone from Jordan that "Sunni, Shia, and secular groups who control the majority of the parliament are planning to pass a resolution after Eid Al-Fetr [the feast that marks the end of Ramadan] outlawing any attempts to split Iraq into sectarian- or ethnic-based regions."
While Biden insists that the United States is not in any way imposing its will on the Iraqi people, he also wrote that "the idea that the United States -- with 160,000 troops in Iraq, 3,804 dead and nearly 28,000 wounded -- does not have a right and responsibility to voice its views and to push for a political settlement is absurd." He's wrong on both counts.
First, it may be the case that the Senate's resolution was nonbinding, but to pretend that the U.S. government is a disinterested bystander simply offering friendly advice is to deny the fundamental reality of the situation on the ground: with 160,000 U.S. troops (and a similar number of trigger-happy security contractors) and a government elected anonymously that requires the protection of a foreign-controlled "Green Zone," the Senate's moves are not just a matter of academic interest. What's more, the context is important: the Coalition has repeatedly taken sides in a crucially important political fight over the future of Iraq. Its forces have attacked Iraqi nationalists violently, its officials have marginalized nationalist views, and the Bush administration has stood steadfast behind the regime of Nouri al-Maliki, dominated by Sunni, Shia and Kurdish separatists.
Second, the idea that the United States has a "right" to opine on questions that are fundamental to Iraq's future is morally outrageous: War of aggression remains the highest crime under international law, and the United States has no more "rights" to weigh in on the matter than Saddam Hussein had to dictate affairs in Kuwait in 1991. Like talking about a "clash of civilizations" or suggesting U.S. troops might be there for generations, simply talking about partitioning the country fans the flames of the Iraqi insurgency.
But despite its many flaws, the Biden plan will likely continue to gain currency in Washington, D.C., because it offers the promise -- a false promise, but a straw at which to grasp -- of a "bipartisan" fix to the Iraqi mess that would allow the United States to leave without either admitting defeat at the hands of the Iraqi resistance or taking responsibility for the disastrous consequences that resulted from the choice to attack the well-contained country in the first place. What's more, it allows U.S. lawmakers to say they voted for a change of course without substantially changing anything, and, perhaps most importantly, it allows the U.S. strategic class to keep its imperial ideology above scrutiny.
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Comments are closed-
Posted by: Lector on Oct 15, 2007 2:05 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
About a year ago, precisely last October, Baker was against the idea of dividing Iraq into three autonomous regions and said partition would cause a civil war but now he wants it because he realizes the quagmire this administration is in can’t be fixed. Meanwhile Bush is positioning himself as against partition. Is this a purposeful complication to shift public attention since it’s become an election issue? There is already a natural partition in Iraq; between the Kurds where the Iraqi flag doesn’t fly, a Shiite area ruled by militias who’ve infiltrated into the Iraqi police and army, and a Sunni areas controlled by guerillas.
Since the US declared Iraq a sovereign state it seems it would be unconstitutional to impose a partition but the plan all along has probably been to rule and divide, to let the Iraqis kill each other off.
Robert Lightfoot
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» RE: Partition: alternative plan for a failed policy
Posted by: umrayya
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Posted by: stryder on Oct 15, 2007 2:45 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Wow. Sounds perilously close to what some would call a “conspiracy theory”. Next Alternet will question the “official” 9/11 conspiracy theory (just kidding folks).
Bloggers on the web have been saying the Mid East would be a Sun Tzu divide and conquest double-cross from before Iraq War began.
Now Americans are shocked! simply shocked! at the outcome. Iraq is now little more than a military puppet under deliberate rape, demolition and genocide at public cost. A giant sham.
Iraq’s “leadership” is staffed by either self-serve tools of western Fascists (certainly not "capitalists") or quasi insurgents who want to remake an Iraq of their own. An Iraqi native reality that in no way conforms to what western oligarchs want for the region. That would be a Mid East/Eurasian “geen zone” under the thumb of Fascist elites. A bloody farce where a Big Oil grab through the west’s old petrodollar fiat concession remains the usual extortion and plunder racket.
As the genocide continues, U.S. corporate media lies and even al Jazeera (run and financed by U.S. lapdog Qatar) propaganda fails to put a sunny face on “war on terror”. One that virtually all with a clue see as a naked and for-profit killing trap devised by cozy Fascist criminals.
At least this column has no mention of CIA-Saudi funded and created “al Qaeda”. Something of an improvement…
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Posted by: Scientz on Oct 15, 2007 3:03 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The only ones who would've had any problem would be the faux nationalists and ex-Baathists. Saddam was holding the country together with his bare hands. If national self-determination was good enough for Europe, it is certainly good enough for the Ottoman "Yugoslavia."
Josh, I've always thought you were way smarter than this.
Biden's plan is the best and most honorable way out.
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» RE: Bull@#$%.
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Bull@#$%.
Posted by: Scientz
» RE: Bull@#$%.
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» RE: Bull@#$%.
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» Nixon: "Retreat With Honor from Vietnam"
Posted by: thoughtcriminal
» RE: Nixon: "Retreat With Honor from Vietnam"
Posted by: Scientz
» RE: Nixon: "Retreat With Honor from Vietnam"
Posted by: umrayya
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Posted by: Scientz on Oct 15, 2007 3:11 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They shouldn't be semi-autonomous provinces, they should be fully sovereign national units.
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» RE: In fact . . .
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» It's not all that hard to empathize...
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» RE: It's not all that hard to empathize...
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» It's not all that hard to empathize.....cont.
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Posted by: Bluecat464
» RE: You are advocating the Zionist option
Posted by: PakiBoy
» Breaking up Iraq has nothing to do with Israel or Zionism. This is an anti-Semitic lie.
Posted by: yellow
» this would seem to a point against the plan, at any rate
Posted by: war_on_tara
» RE: Israeli scholars and journalist have documented the Zionist plan to divide Arab states
Posted by: PakiBoy
» ZIONISM!?!? Lol . . .
Posted by: Scientz
» RE: Breaking up Iraq has nothing to do with Israel or Zionism. This is an anti-Semitic lie.
Posted by: umrayya
» Umrayya, your view is the most reasonable. There are people all over however, who support war.
Posted by: yellow
» RE: Umrayya, your view is the most reasonable. There are people all over however, who support war.
Posted by: umrayya
» Umrayya, You've echoed my sentiments exactly. Now maybe people will listen to reason on this issue!!
Posted by: yellow
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Posted by: marid on Oct 15, 2007 3:54 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Try a novel idea
Posted by: herronsmith
» RE: Try a novel idea
Posted by: rambleman
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Posted by: When In Doubt on Oct 15, 2007 3:59 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is their country... once "the Coalition of the Willing" is out of the picture.
Where do we get the idea we can go around the planet and make decisions for THEM... or any other country.
This disqualifies Biden from being president.
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» RE: Senseseeker
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Posted by: rcdean on Oct 15, 2007 4:31 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Holland and Jarrar claim the 3 sectarian groups in Iraq have "long existed as a nation" and have "a powerful shared identity..." But that is patently false since for nearly half a century the "nation" of Iraq has been held together by an iron fist.
They are right to say the US has no moral authority to force the Biden plan down Iraqi throats. But they are very wrong to condemn the plan as immoral and to suggest the US has no right to propose and even to promote what we view to be a workable solution.
Holland and Jarrar seem to believe that peace has broken out, that the Sunnis and Shiites are learning to live together, that the bloodshed is lessening, that what exists now is not a state of effective civil war, and that there is some hope the Shia government will soon magnanimously share power and wealth--with the Sunnis.
To the contrary, the situation is bad and getting worse, and there is no prospect for a political "solution," save one enforced against the Sunnis at gunpoint.
The situation cries out for a political solution that gives each ethno-sectarian group a piece of the pie and a safe haven. Numerous times in recent decades, in Korea, Vietnam, Ireland and elsewhere, such intractable conflicts have been substantially resolved by a form of partition. This plan is far less draconian than partition--since it provides for continued national identity and a federal government that will be forced to reconcile competing sectarian interests or else lose its power. Federalism worked for America. It's time to promote this plan--in an unbiased objective manner--among Iraqis and see if they themselves don't agree.
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» A bit confused
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» With respect, the one who is confused is you.
Posted by: rcdean
» RE: This piece completely misrepresents the facts about Iraqi opinion
Posted by: leafsong1
» RE: This piece completely misrepresents the facts about Iraqi opinion
Posted by: umrayya
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Posted by: Ivann on Oct 15, 2007 5:44 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» ever heard of Serbia & Kosovo?
Posted by: war_on_tara
» RE: Some damn cheek!!
Posted by: Scientz
» RE: Some damn cheek!!
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» RE: Some damn cheek!!
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» RE: Some damn cheek!!
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» RE: Some damn cheek!!
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» RE: Some damn cheek!!
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» RE: Some damn cheek!!
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» RE: Some damn cheek!!
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» RE: Some damn cheek!!
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» RE: Some damn cheek!!
Posted by: umrayya
» RE: Some damn cheek!!
Posted by: Scientz
» RE: Some damn cheek!!
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» RE: Some damn cheek!!
Posted by: Scientz
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Posted by: EKSwitaj on Oct 15, 2007 5:43 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Learning from History
Posted by: hilaryuk
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Posted by: PakiBoy on Oct 15, 2007 6:29 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As the noted by Israeli human rights activist and scholar Prof. Israel Shahak:
"...the accurate and detailed plan of the present Zionist regime (of Sharon and Eitan) for the Middle East which is based on the division of the whole area into small states, and the dissolution of all the existing Arab states. I will comment on the military aspect of this plan in a concluding note. Here I want to draw the attention of the readers to several important points:
1. The idea that all the Arab states should be broken down, by Israel, into small units, occurs again and again in Israeli strategic thinking. For example, Ze'ev Schiff, the military correspondent of Ha'aretz (and probably the most knowledgeable in Israel, on this topic) writes about the "best" that can happen for Israeli interests in Iraq: "The dissolution of Iraq into a Shi'ite state, a Sunni state and the separation of the Kurdish part" (Ha'aretz 6/2/1982). Actually, this aspect of the plan is very old.
2. The strong connection with Neo-Conservative thought in the USA is very prominent, especially in the author's notes. But, while lip service is paid to the idea of the "defense of the West" from Soviet power, the real aim of the author, and of the present Israeli establishment is clear: To make an Imperial Israel into a world power. In other words, the aim of Sharon is to deceive the Americans after he has deceived all the rest.
3. It is obvious that much of the relevant data, both in the notes and in the text, is garbled or omitted, such as the financial help of the U.S. to Israel. Much of it is pure fantasy. But, the plan is not to be regarded as not influential, or as not capable of realization for a short time. The plan follows faithfully the geopolitical ideas current in Germany of 1890-1933, which were swallowed whole by Hitler and the Nazi movement, and determined their aims for East Europe. Those aims, especially the division of the existing states, were carried out in 1939-1941, and only an alliance on the global scale prevented their consolidation for a period of time.
The notes by the author follow the text. To avoid confusion, I did not add any notes of my own, but have put the substance of them into this foreward and the conclusion at the end. I have, however, emphasized some portions of the text.
Israel Shahak
June 13, 1982
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» RE: guess who is coming for dinner
Posted by: solrev
» RE: So what's new? Empires have always used divide and rule tactic
Posted by: Intellect
» RE: So what's new? Empires have always used divide and rule tactic
Posted by: jbur816
» Quoting Israel Shahak proves NOTHING. He is damaged goods; a Warsaw Ghetto survivor with big issues.
Posted by: yellow
» RE: Shahak survived holocaust. Why do you hate holocaust survivors? Do you also deny holocaust?
Posted by: PakiBoy
» Uri Avnery would also think you're a putz!! Shahak's other screed on Jewish History nasty as hell.
Posted by: yellow
» RE: Ad hominem attack on Shahk does not constitute 'assiduously constructed arguments'
Posted by: PakiBoy
» You obviously don't understand the debate about the holocaust. It is NOT about numbers.
Posted by: yellow
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Posted by: colinmeister on Oct 15, 2007 6:30 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The U.S. will be reaping the rotten fruits of their disasterous invasion of Iraq for many years to come, and there is no clear way out of the situation.
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» RE: Partition and annexation.
Posted by: solrev
» RE: Partition and annexation.
Posted by: Constitutionalist75
» RE: Partition and annexation.
Posted by: Intellect
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Posted by: CatDad on Oct 15, 2007 7:48 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is obvious that Americans cannot save their own nation....neither can their "leader," Abraham Lincoln. Only outside superpowers know what's best for other nations.
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» That analogy only works if Britain & Germany had INVADED first
Posted by: war_on_tara
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» RE: Time Warp: 1861
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» Is Rwanda on your list?
Posted by: war_on_tara
» RE: Is Rwanda on your list?
Posted by: CatDad
» RE: Is Rwanda on your list?
Posted by: war_on_tara
» RE: Is Rwanda on your list?
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Posted by: farmertx on Oct 15, 2007 8:17 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Congress critter's are seemingly unaware that they swore an oath to do the job that they promised us that they were capable of doing.
Instead they pass non-binding resolutions, hold hearings and demand investigations and pass a resolution condemning another country for somerthing that happened nigh on to 100 years ago...that isn't any of our business to boot.
All the while, we have an alleged President and Vice President that deserve to be put on trial before the world, along with a host of problems created by these two persons; and Congress plays politics as usual.
Does anybody know the procedure for calling a Constitutional Convention? Seeing as how the elected officials (most anyhow) are only interested in collecting more bribes, it will be up to the citizens to demand a reform of campaign contributions, a/k/a bribes, and get this country back on track.
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» RE: Amazing Arrogance
Posted by: diarmaid
» RE: Iraqs' Problem
Posted by: farmertx
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Posted by: war_on_tara on Oct 15, 2007 8:17 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This article's other conclusions, somewhat to my surprise, seem to bode well for a federal Iraq. But if it's true that most Iraqis & political parties are against formal partition, that may be because the bulk of the partitioning is already an accomplished fact.
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Posted by: WitchyNy on Oct 15, 2007 8:17 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: skydog on Oct 15, 2007 9:03 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I was under the impression that 70% of Iraq is already segregated. There are upwards of four million refugees as well. None of this displacement is voluntary in any positive sense, but in fact is it has occurred, and is occurring. Given the choice, people would rather evacuate than be killed.
One can take issue with the manner in which this happened, of course, but that all comes down to the fact this entire debacle was illegal, immoral, and most egregiously one hundred percent predictable (even Cheney was prescient on this in that tape from the mid 90s.) Of that I'm sure we're all in agreement.
The question is, how can we minimize the disaster we will inevitably leave in our wake now that this unspeakable damage has been done? Apart from physically separating those who would do harm to each other, is there an alternative to prevent the sectarian violence based on animosity present for centuries?
One choice is that the power vacuum left when we disposed the dictator can be replaced by a power equally brutal. That's the plan of indefinite occupation, where Blackwater personnel instill fear through indiscriminate and unaccountable slaughter. I would prefer a plan that allows us to bring home our military, sends Blackwater thugs to prison, and that minimizes further bloodshed if at all possible.
You state: When asked by the BBC: "Do you think the separation of people on sectarian lines is a good thing or a bad thing for Iraq?" a conclusive 98 percent said it was a "bad thing." Why, then, are they killing each other? That this sectarian slaughter is rampant is in no doubt, unless one subscribes to the White House propaganda that it's al Qaeda.
Could it be that Iraqis view separation as a bad thing because they each envision themselves at the top of a unified Iraq, with all others subservient to them? How might we predict that such a power struggle would be resolved? Purple fingers? Never in another millennium.
It's very easy to find all the flaws with any plan when in a situation where there are no good alternatives. I don't see how separating those who would otherwise kill themselves is in any way less desirable than simply allowing them to do so in situ, or worse, standing between them, into perpetuity, thereby making Iraq our fifty first state and maintaining our status as targets in the crossfire.
We need creative answers. I'm willing to go with the best of the current crop of alternatives, and reserve the right to get smarter as new alternatives present themselves.
And while I'm certainly no fan of "Bankruptcy Bill" Biden (or, if you prefer, the "Sixty Seven Vote Smokescreen" Senator from Delaware who I actually despise with every fiber of my being) a federation of sectarian states seems the least undesirable among all the undesirable alternatives we know of today.
Can you clear this up for me?? We know what you're against, but what exactly are you advocating?
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» RE: I honestly don't understand
Posted by: KrinkB
» I hear ya. But explain Bankrupcy Bill and Smokescreen Vote to me
Posted by: common intelligence
» RE: I hear ya. But explain Bankrupcy Bill and Smokescreen Vote to me
Posted by: skydog
» You dishonestly don't understand
Posted by: leafsong1
» RE: You dishonestly don't understand
Posted by: umrayya
» RE: You dishonestly don't understand
Posted by: leafsong1
» RE: You dishonestly don't understand
Posted by: umrayya
» RE: You dishonestly don't understand
Posted by: skydog
» RE: I honestly don't understand
Posted by: umrayya
» RE: I honestly don't understand
Posted by: skydog
» RE: I honestly don't understand
Posted by: umrayya
» Umrayya, I believe you are right in all the above. Sincerest thanks.
Posted by: common intelligence
» RE: Umrayya, I believe you are right in all the above. Sincerest thanks.
Posted by: umrayya
» RE: Umrayya, I believe you are right in all the above. Sincerest thanks.
Posted by: Basenjis
» RE: I honestly don't understand
Posted by: skydog
» RE: I honestly don't understand
Posted by: skydog
Comments are closed-
Posted by: diarmaid on Oct 15, 2007 9:26 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Which is, US wants oil, Israel wants more power in the area.
So Israel "lets" US have the oil and in return gets the Arab nations partitioned. It's a win-win sitation for both nations.
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» "...Israel lets US have the oil..." US needed Israeli permission to take Iraqi oil!! Incredible!!
Posted by: yellow
» RE: Partitioning Mid East
Posted by: Intellect
» RE: Partitioning Mid East
Posted by: diarmaid
» So it is really all about OIL?
Posted by: common intelligence
» RE: So it is really all about OIL?
Posted by: diarmaid
» RE: No in oil Iraq...Oil in Venuzuela! More oil In Sudan than Iraq, more in IRAN!
Posted by: common intelligence
» RE: Partitioning Mid East
Posted by: maxloen
Comments are closed-
Posted by: common intelligence on Oct 15, 2007 9:49 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Biden asks, " U gotta plan?"...
Bloodbath is another way writers manipulates your emotions in a debate. It's a mute point anymore.
Blood was let and it's All on Bush's & Cheney's hands.
The point that must be focused on is how to bring equanimity to the land and people. The sad point for any parent is having to separate fighting children.
Segregate, separate it's the same thing. Ethnic cleansing.... well isn't it a bunch of different ethnic groups that can't get along in peace and harmony? The term may being used too harshly. In all of the planet different families within species separate themselves. They choose to live with their own and not with others.
Human beings, as a whole, tend to insist that they always know what's best for others and yet in the very fabric of their being hold onto innate primitive prejudices below their skin. Maybe it's how we process our sensory perceptions that influences our attitudes? What ever the reason humans of one sectarian group don't or can't live with the other. Peace between them only comes by respecting their differences and "let it be".
It is apparent the insanity has been unleashed by the Bush regime. They have no solution because they don't want one, only and "endless war" for power, money influence, domination and resources. ( How come they just don't say it out right?)
But Senator Biden has put a plan together and no one else has. Senator Biden isn't on the Bush side of the table. Senator Biden has said repeatedly, "If someone else has a better idea or any idea that can work", he's not closed to anyone that can present it. Sad fact no one does. Except Senator Kucinich. That is "immediate withdrawal". But that certainly won't work without Joshua's proclaimed Bloodbath.
The fact is these feuding people, ethnic groups if you will, have been killing each other for centuries. (Just like whites, blacks, latinos, christians, jews,.... here in America.) WIth or without Bush's intervention. Now it's just more pronounce because of the presents of American troops securing the oil fields for the Corporations and to keep the Amerikan fiat economy from free fall. All under the guise of saving US from terrorists. ( Now that's some real BS.)
As it appears separating the sects is a beginning. And it's too damn bad we are the ones that must try to fix Bush's cluster f*ck.
So if you have a solution to stop them from killing each other... put up or shut-up.
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» RE: Joshua hasn't got a plan -- the trend continues
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Sorry Joshua. Raed got a plan.?
Posted by: common intelligence
» RE: Joshua STILL hasn't got a plan -- the trend STILL continues
Posted by: skydog
» But should not take up this white man's burden.
Posted by: Coleman
» Coleman, I whole heartedly agree. But what about the mess? Who's cleaning up?
Posted by: common intelligence
» RE: Joshua hasn't got a plan, but an opinion. Biden asks, " U gotta plan?"...
Posted by: leafsong1
» You're right leafsong1, So why not start with Impeachment, then it will happen!
Posted by: common intelligence
» RE: You're right leafsong1, So why not start with Impeachment, then it will happen!
Posted by: leafsong1
» Good points umryya. SO why don't the parents control their own kids?
Posted by: common intelligence
Comments are closed-
Posted by: BrianOfNairobi on Oct 15, 2007 10:01 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Sure, aquiring the control of Iraq's oilfields was undoubtedly a contributing factor when the US/UK went to war, just as Saddam changing from the US Dollar to the Euro, when selling his oil, was another. But the main and overriding factor was the influence and continuing deceit of the State of Israel and its lobby in the USA.
Partitioning Iraq, and all neighbouring Arab nations, has always been the long term aim of Zionism. "The Zionist Plan for the Middle East" linked text
This essay was written by Oded Yinon (and translated by Israel Shahak) in 1982, when Israel invaded Lebanon. Yinon was in the IDF and the Israeli government at the time. It was, and is, a strategy for the future... a Zionist future. Part 23 deals with the partition of Iraq.
It is plain to see, if eyes are prised open, that the US is doing Israel's dirty work in the Middle East... at the cost of countless American and Iraqi lives. If the US does not make a Clean Break from the Zionists in Israel and the homegrown treacherous variety then world war III will surely beckon.
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» If partitioning was always the plan don't ridicule Biden.
Posted by: common intelligence
» RE:
Posted by: CatDad
» To suggest "war on terror" is a skin-deep "benefits to the Right Wing" operation is naive
Posted by: stryder
» RE: To suggest "war on terror" is a skin-deep "benefits to the Right Wing" operation is naive
Posted by: CatDad
» RE: To suggest "war on terror" is a skin-deep "benefits to the Right Wing" operation is naive
Posted by: stryder
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Posted by: willymack on Oct 15, 2007 10:07 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: KrinkB on Oct 15, 2007 10:28 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: United States of Iraq
Posted by: umrayya
Comments are closed-
Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Oct 15, 2007 10:50 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
However, the U.S. was forced to sanction an election due to their claim that they wanted 'democracy' in Iraq. This resulted in the creation of a Parliament in a flawed election - but the Parliament has repeatedly refused to sanction the giveaway of Iraqi oil (i.e. the Hydrocrabon Law written by BearingPoint, U.S. and British oil interests, and the Council of Ministers).
This led to outrage in the U.S. Congress and the Bush Administration, who want U.S. corporations to get their hands on all that juicy, cheap sweet Iraqi crude. Thus, we had the calls for 'political progress benchmarks in Iraq, especially passing the hydrocarbon law' as well as the calls to allow Saddamic Baathists back into power - the notion being that a brutal dictator might be able to get the country 'under control' - this was also known as "The Salvador Option".
The current U.S. government opinion seems to be that the greatest enemy of US and British oil interests in Iraq is the people of Iraq themselves - and they are now the targets. Thus we have all the U.S. sponsored ethnic cleansing efforts, which are aimed at dividing the country in three. If the Parliament won't pass the hydrocarbon law, perhaps 'regional governors' will. This has already happened in the Kurdish region, where Bush buddy Ray Hunt of Hunt Oil has gotten some concessions New York Times, Sep 28 2007. (Okay, every once in a while the NYT gets it right)
Similary, Chevron and France's Total (also know for their close collaborations in Burma/Myanmar with the generals on a pipeline/gas field project) have signed an oilfield services agreement for Southern Iraq's Majnoon field (Antonia Juahaz, Aug 8 2007) - the only sticking point is getting the Iraqi 'government' to give them the contract. Bush and Sarkozy - Chevron and Total - you get the picture?
As far as what the Iraqi people want, I think it becomes clear that their Iraqi nationalism outwieghs any religious differences. Iraqi refugees in other countries are ignoring the artificially created Sunni-Shia split that the U.S. has worked so hard to engineer - see the AP report:
Iraqi Refugees Shed Sectarian Bitterness, Saturday October 13, 2007, OMAR SINAN, AP
DAMASCUS, Syria (AP) - A dozen Iraqi men - Sunnis and Shiites alike - sat around a table in a Damascus restaurant, singing, drinking and sharing a camaraderie all but impossible in the sectarian killing fields back home.
"We can certainly choose our religious beliefs. But we have to realize the inevitable - that eventually we have to share everything in order to live in peace,'' said Salam Mohammed, a 34-year-old Sunni from Saddam Hussein's hometown of Tikrit.
neurolingo.gnn.tv
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Posted by: al Asaad on Oct 15, 2007 12:02 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Turkey is poised to invade Iraq to prevent the Kurds form pronouncing their independance and declaring the formation of a "new" Kurdistan.
The Kurds, the only people to benefit form our invasion, are equally prepared to do just that.
Sunni Iraq is doomed if there is no partition. Those expressed misgivings about "Ethnic cleansing" are already too late: it is done.
Shi'a Iraq is poised to take over the country no matter what we do, our troops totally helpless to stop that move when it is put into action.
Sunni nor Shi'a will lift one finger to help the Kurds, using that moment to finalize their Civil War over "Lebensraum" and bragging rights.
In Chess, the United States can be said to be ensnared in a clever move which put us in a "Zugswang" (an in-between, temporizing move by the opponent which results in a situation where whatever piece we (US) move, there is no good move.
No move we make from this point on will/can improve our position vis-a-vis the swiftly approaching Checkmate.
There is not now and never will be a "Democracy" in the so-called "Middle East".
As for oil, the reason, for many, we supposedly went into Iraq? The folly of that is we will buy oil at whatever price from whomever has oil and will sell to us.
The further folly is this: we have a window of about 40 years to wean ourselves off oil to renewable resouces.
In 40 years, the "Middle East" will be populated and "ruled over" by destitute Sunni and Shi'a Muslims with little oil between them.
"Isreal"? In exile again, this time in Africa, west of Sudan, north of The Congo Republic, the balance having fled into the welcoming arms of an America being ruled, politically at least, by Browns and Blacks.
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» RE: You would have us in Iraq for how long?...
Posted by: solrev
» Confused ...
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Confused ...
Posted by: Scientz
» RE: Confused ...
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Confused ...
Posted by: umrayya
» RE: Confused ...
Posted by: Scientz
» RE: Confused ...
Posted by: Scientz
» Clueless
Posted by: leafsong1
Comments are closed-
Posted by: umrayya on Oct 15, 2007 12:32 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Iraq's social, economic, demographic, and political history simply do not support the picture of Iraq as an ethnically and religiously divided country, and even today it is clearly NOT WHAT IRAQIS WANT. Even Kurds are not as universally and implacably wedded as it may seem to the separatist agenda of those in power in Kurdistan.
Keep up the good work. Ra'ed, believe me you are not alone among Iraqis in saying the things you are saying. Please keep being a voice for those who do not have an audience to hear them.
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Posted by: Maryanne on Oct 15, 2007 2:42 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We have no business making ANY decisions regarding Iraq. Let's give them some dignity, some rights, to decide what to do about their ravaged country.
The only decision we have to make is to GET OUT.
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» RE: We had no business
Posted by: umrayya
» RE: We had no business
Posted by: Scientz
» RE: We had no business
Posted by: umrayya
» RE: We had no business
Posted by: Scientz
Comments are closed-
Posted by: yellow on Oct 15, 2007 4:10 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The US is held to be the aggressor against Japan because of its aid to China, trade embargo of Japan due to its military aggression, the shifting of the US Pacific fleet from its permanent base in San Diego to a forward position at Pearl in Hawaii in 1940 and the freezing of Japanese assets in the US in July 1941 in direct response to Japan's brutal invasion and occupation of French Indochina. All this occured, of course, after the Japanese had the entire Pacific Rim occupied. Sniegoski sees Japan's economic isolation and lack of raw materials as justification for these conquests.
Sniegoski sees "the growing threat of Chinese Communism" as a legitimate reason for Japan to invade and occupy China. He also cites Stalinist influence in Outer Mongolia.
Obviously it was the Japanese occupation that actually brought about the popularity and military success of the Red Army under Mao. Guys like Sniegoski are similar to the same right-wing scum bags that justify the Nazi invasion of Poland and the murder of nearly seven million of its citizens by claiming that Poland wouldn't negotiate a corridor to east Prussia or that Danzig belonged to Germany and Poland should have given it up even though the city was a ward of the League of Nations!! These pro-fascist revisionists are the same ones that supply many of our readers with anti-Zionist propaganda linking the Iraq War to Israel. People like Pat Buchanan, racist nativist, blames Israel for the Iraq War and also opposes US intervention in Europe and the Pacific in WWII on the grounds that it only strengthened communism. These views are shared in the Arab/Muslim World, especially in ultra-conservative Saudi Arabia, which was unanimously pro-Axis during WWII.
I have found no credible scholarly sources that actually argues that the US invasion of Iraq had a purely Israeli source. I recommend that we simply consider the source!!
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» RE: In the first place, most of the sources that claim Israeli origins of Iraq war are fascist.
Posted by: umrayya
» RE: In the first place, most of the sources that claim Israeli origins of Iraq war are fascist.
Posted by: yellow
» RE: In the first place, most of the sources that claim Israeli origins of Iraq war are fascist.
Posted by: umrayya
» I read this. Israel was even prepared to work secretly with Iraq against Syria in Lebanon.
Posted by: yellow
» RE: I read this. Israel was even prepared to work secretly with Iraq against Syria in Lebanon.
Posted by: umrayya
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Posted by: sofla100 on Oct 15, 2007 5:12 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: anambrose on Oct 15, 2007 6:20 PM
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» RE: BBC is Quoted?
Posted by: Joshua Holland
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Posted by: Sojourner on Oct 15, 2007 9:18 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
All the talk of improvements at the time Petraeus testified seemed aimed in the direction of a policy of supporting whoever could keep the peace in their area. So Biden's followup comes as no surprise.
I'd sure rather be fighting over where to draw the lines than fighting just to kill US troops. How long does the current policy have to go on before we try something else?
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Posted by: Doubtom on Oct 15, 2007 11:05 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Anyone who doesn't know that Iraq has had three distinct regions prior to any of this illegal war business, is simply not knowledgeable about the Middle East. All Biden is suggesting is that they formalize the splits.
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» RE: Civil strife over Biden's plan?
Posted by: umrayya
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Posted by: davy on Oct 16, 2007 1:10 AM
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Posted by: nardami on Oct 16, 2007 6:55 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Biden calls it for what it's supposed to be
Posted by: maxloen
» Don't have to be a neocon to recognize real politik.
Posted by: Sojourner
» RE: Don't have to be a neocon to recognize real politik.
Posted by: umrayya
» RE: Don't have to be a neocon to recognize real politik.
Posted by: Scientz
» RE: Don't have to be a neocon to recognize real politik.
Posted by: umrayya
Comments are closed-
Posted by: xbj on Oct 16, 2007 4:43 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Here's how it could have been done. All the money spent on this Godforsaken money minting war (and siphoned off to war contractors and their cronies and "investors") could have easily developed hydrogen as a workable practical cheap fuel source. Without a single doubt. That technological innovation alone would have given the US an economical edge that would have placed it at the top of the world economy for decades to come. (Instead, now China will probably do it first.)
With no US need for Mideast oil except as possible a base for plastics, there would be no need to have a military and political "ally" there (Israel) and certainly no need for Empire.
But no, that's the way America would have done it if all the bullshit fed us about this great country in school was true.
Unfortunately, it's not true and it has never been true. Technological advances are now witheld and even destroyed to keep antiquated industries (like the oil industry) going, at all possible cost to the country, the world, and the entire planet and its ecostructure. And wars fought and babies bombed to keep those industries alive and making obscene profits.
There is a Twilight Zone episode where this guy dies and goes to a Vegas-like paradise, where he's able to have all the women and gambling and vice he wants, and he assumes it's Heaven, because it certainly was his idea of it. For a few years anyway. Until he gets bored with the gluttony of it all. Then he finally realizes he'd like to go someplace else, anywhere else, because he's bored out of his mind. He asks to go to "the other place" (meaning Hell) just for a bit, just to see what it's like. The proprietor of the place (Sebastian Cabot) laughs and laughs, and says "This IS the "other place".
That's the punchline. Welcome to the greatest country on earth, in reality, THE OTHER PLACE.
Because we know what is right to do, we talk about it all the time. And then turn around and do the EXACT OPPOSITE.
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Posted by: eosrk on Oct 16, 2007 11:24 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Camilla Cracchiolo on Oct 16, 2007 11:27 PM
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Posted by: mjabele on Oct 17, 2007 5:44 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I say this not to be provocative, but because I think it's essential to get at some sort of truth here. Umrayya's comments obviously carry great weight given that he has personal experience with the situation in Iraq, but Iraq is a large country in a complicated situation, and I'm doubtful any one individual's viewpoint can encompass the complexity of what's going on their between the various groups. My wife's viewpoint about her own country's ethnic conflict has often turned out to be quite different from the one expressed by folks from the "other side", when I've explored that particular issue in conversation.
I also really wonder about the BBC survey results. When I looked at them, it certainly seemed clear that Iraqi opinion HAS shifted, since 2004, toward a more decentralized, "regionalized" form of government, and that confidence in the current central government seems to be eroding rapidly. The fact that folks are not yet opining for complete partition into independent states may simply reflect that we're "on the way", so to speak, but haven't yet arrived at that particular destination.
I also can't help wondering who exactly was surveyed. How many Kurds living in the essentially "autonomous Kurdistan" that's now been created were included in this particular survey? And if we confine ourselves merely to this group, what were the percentages for each of those questions asked? - i.e., how many Kurds really want to remain part of a federal Iraq, and is this percentage significantly different from the survey participants as a whole?
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» RE: A lot of discussion re the Sunni / Shia "divide", but very little...
Posted by: umrayya
» This is also true in Abkhazia and Bosnia...
Posted by: mjabele
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Posted by: yellow on Oct 21, 2007 10:06 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The only reason that Al-Qaeda is there is because of the US military presence. If the US troops leave there will be peace and normalcy. Al Qaeda is only popular because the attack the US in Iraq. Al Qaeda will disappear when we stop making them popular with out policies. We need to leave now and allow the Iraqis to determine their own future. A facile solution for nothing more than massive absentee US influence in shaping the future Iraq will not work. The ethnic cleansing that is going on now is a direct consequence of US constitutional and political meddling in that country. There is no real modern history of sectarian conflict between the three major groups in the region aside from the persecution of the Kurds by Saddam and other major regional heads of state.
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Posted by: Urgelt on Oct 23, 2007 11:23 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It did not take much reading to set me straight. The fighting among various groups in Iraq is not predominantly sectarian. Sunni-on-Sunni and Shiite-on-Shiite violence far outweighs Sunni-on-Shiite violence. What's really going on here?
What's going on is anarchy, where dozens of groups are vying for power through force at the expense of the other groups. Some of these groups are secular, some fundamentalist. Some are nationalists, some are separatists, some are tribalists. Some are cults of personality. They are scattered all over the political spectrum. Some are divided by the issue of the occupation itself and are slugging it out with each other over that. Some are fighting for greed, some are fighting for ideology. Any and every combination can be found.
What we are seeing is what happens when you completely shatter a state by destroying the institutions which make it function, and occupy it with armed and dangerous foreign troops. The population becomes radicalized. People reach for their guns.
Partitioning Iraq won't even slow down the violence. It might if the violence was primarily inspired by the Sunni-Shiite religious rift. But it's not.
Partitioning Iraq will create haves and have-nots and thus foment lasting resentment. Oil is not distributed evenly throughout Iraq.
As for Israeli interests, if they really think it will be safer for Israel if the Arab states dissolve into chaos and war, they're crazy. Keep in mind that regional destabilization is exactly what bin Laden is after. He thinks the resulting war will give birth to a New Caliphate, which will then effortlessly sweep Israel into the Mediterranean.
The continued radicalization of Arab populations, which is the main result of destabilization, is a massively threatening trend to Israel. If Biden has Israel's interests in mind, he'd better come up with a better solution than the one he's put on the table.
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Posted by: edromar2 on Oct 27, 2007 6:07 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The 1947 fiasco that allowed for the taking over of Palestine and the intrusion of the state of Isreal which will allow no peace in the area aas long as it is allowed to intrude into the Palestinians lands is not a necessary evil, it is just an evil--but one the UN can avoid in Iraq
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Posted by: stupidicus on Aug 24, 2008 10:01 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I believe totally that in principle and practice that the only long term solution for Iraq's problems is self-determination, but was or is he proposing this in defiance or dismissal of that, or as a vehicle for it?
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