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The "Hidden Day" Israel Deliberately Attacked American Ship, Killing 34

By Ray McGovern, Consortium News. Posted October 10, 2007.


For 40 years, intelligence analysts have kept this knowledge secret, a testament to our country's widespread fear of the Israel lobby.

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The American Israel Public Affairs Committee brags that it is the most influential foreign policy lobbying organization on Capitol Hill, and it has demonstrated that time and again, and not only on Capitol Hill.

Nowhere is the lobby's power more clearly demonstrated than in its ability to suppress the awful truth that on June 8, 1967, during the Six Day War:

  • Israel deliberately attacked the intelligence collection ship USS Liberty, in full awareness it was a U.S. Navy ship, and did its best to sink it and leave no survivors;
  • The Israelis would have succeeded had they not broken off the attack upon learning, from an intercepted message, that the commander of the U.S. 6th Fleet had launched carrier fighters to the scene; and
  • By that time, 34 of the Liberty's crew had been killed and over 170 wounded.

Scores of intelligence analysts and senior officials have known this for years. That virtually all of them have kept a 40-year frightened silence is testament to the widespread fear of touching this live wire.

Even more telling is the fact that the National Security Agency destroyed voice tapes seen by many intelligence analysts, showing beyond doubt that the Israelis knew exactly what they were doing.

But the truth will come out -- eventually. All it took in this case is for a courageous journalist (of the endangered species kind) to listen to the surviving crew and do a little basic research, not shrinking from naming war crimes and not letting senior U.S. officials, from the president on down off the hook for suppressing -- even destroying -- unimpeachable evidence from intercepted Israeli communications.

The mainstream media have now published an exposé based largely on interviews with those most intimately involved.

A lengthy article by Pulitzer Prize-winning investigative reporter John Crewdson appeared in the Chicago Tribune and Baltimore Sun on Oct. 2 titled "New revelations in attack on American spy ship." (For the full story, click here.)

To the subtitle goes the prize for understatement of the year: "Veterans, documents suggest U.S., Israel didn't tell full story of deadly 1967 incident."

Better 40 years late than never, I suppose. Many of us have known of the incident and coverup for a very long time and have tried to expose and discuss it for the lessons it holds for today.

It has proved far easier, though, to get a very pedestrian dog-bites-nan article published than an article with the importance and explosiveness of this damning story.

A Marine stands up

On the evening of Sept. 26, 2006, I gave a talk on Iraq to an overflow crowd of 400 at National Avenue Church in Springfield, Mo.

A questioner asked what I thought of the study by John Mearsheimer of the University of Chicago and Stephen Walt of Harvard titled "The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy."

The study had originally been commissioned by the Atlantic Monthly. When the draft arrived, however, shouts of "leper!" were heard at the Atlantic. The magazine wasted no time in saying "thanks, but no thanks," and the leper study then wandered in search of a home, finding none among American publishers.

Eventually the London Review of Books published it in March 2006.

I had read that piece carefully and found it an unusual act of courage as well as scholarship. That's what I told the questioner, adding that I did have two problems with the study:

First, it seemed to me the authors erred in attributing virtually all the motivation for the U.S. attack on Iraq to the Israel Lobby and the so-called "neoconservatives" running our policy and armed forces. Was Israel an important factor? Indeed. But of equal importance, in my view, was the oil factor and what the Pentagon now calls the "enduring" military bases in Iraq, which the White House and Pentagon decided were needed for the United States to dominate that part of the Middle East.

Second, I was intrigued by the fact that Mearsheimer and Walt made no mention of what I believe to be, if not the most telling, then perhaps the most sensational proof of the power the lobby knows it can exert over our government and Congress. In sum, in June 1967, after deliberately using fighter bombers and torpedo boats to attack the USS Liberty for over two hours in an attempt to sink it and kill its crew, and then getting the U.S. government, the Navy and the Congress to cover up what happened, the Israeli government learned that it could -- literally -- get away with murder.


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See more stories tagged with: israel lobby, uss liberty, american israel public af

Former CIA analyst Ray McGovern is co-founder of Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity.

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No Secret
Posted by: rocketman on Oct 10, 2007 3:57 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Liberty attacks had been televised years ago.. complete with interviews of the crew and back then (mayby 15 years ago) they blamed Israel for a deliberate attack, not a mistake as Israel claimed. not sure why I've havent seen much of it afterward. Could our media be controlled by their lobby as well???

As for the Israeli lobby, it's could well be the single greatest danger to this country outside of our own insane foreign policy blunders!

Time to cut the cord!

» RE: No Secret Posted by: RODNOX
» RE: No Secret Posted by: CatDad
» RE: No Secret Posted by: VZEQICVA
the sun will set over israel....
Posted by: xvictor on Oct 10, 2007 5:53 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Zionist lobby's influence in american affairs will dramatically wane over time. more muslims, asians and latinos are entering the US political scene in growing numbers.

ALL OF THEM don't give a damn 'bout Israel.

I truly believe Israel will eventually dwindle into nothing very soon without massive US assistance. if a state cannot exist on its own, it should not exist at all. it's that simple.

» What? Posted by: Joshua Holland
» The reverse is true ... Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: The reverse is true ... Posted by: xvictor
» RE: The reverse is true ... Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: The reverse is true ... Posted by: jbur816
» RE: The reverse is true ... Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: The reverse is true ... Posted by: Joshua Holland
The reparations that Isreal made are not nearly enough. A movie should
Posted by: albrechtkrausse on Oct 10, 2007 6:40 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
be made about the USS Liberty incident to help teach the general popular and children about the incident. War movies are quite popular these days and why not a movie showing the dastardly acts of Zionists for once? I'd like to see the face of the Hollywood moguls if someone actually sent one of them a script based on the USS Liberty! You think their ADL, B'Nai B'rth, Mossad, AIPAC, and banking controllers would allow the studio execs to make the movie.....or would the author of that script be suddenly on a blacklist or 'have an accident'?

» Not quite. Posted by: justaguy
Wanna Nuke Somebody?
Posted by: tkwilson on Oct 10, 2007 6:42 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
With the majority of the US/World Media controlled by corporations and a government owned by the corporations it is no surprise we hear only what we're supposed to hear.

Corporations have no national or patriotic affiliations; only the bottom line. Apparently what is good for Israel is good for the bottom line.
The attack on the US Liberty was/is an act of war and those responsible for the attack and it's cover-up are criminals; both foreign and domestic.
The fact of the matter is that your government is run by criminals; either criminal by commission or association.
Were you planning on voting? Which criminal aspirant will you vote for?

Not too mnay comments about this story. . .
Posted by: bowriter on Oct 10, 2007 6:45 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think the progressive left might be hiding a collective sympathy for the Jewish lobby.

Much hand ringing.

Don't want too look like a rabid xenaphobe (do I smell one even on this page of comments--XVictor?--"mulsms, asians, latinos --they don't give a damn about". . . anything, perhaps?)

Isreal could learn alot from Woody Allen.

Must be a slow day to bash anybody....
Posted by: Nugeman on Oct 10, 2007 6:59 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
since this alledgedly happened 40 years ago.

» Not attacked. Not a democracy. Posted by: justaguy
» Lies. Posted by: yellow
» Twaddle. Posted by: justaguy
» theft of land Posted by: KaptainSpiffy
USS Liberty: The Keystone to the Great Conspiracy
Posted by: Iconoclast421 on Oct 10, 2007 7:01 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There are some wild conspiracy theories out there. The countdown to the WTC7 implosion that so many witnesses have described. The shot that blew the back of Kennedy's head off. The wealth of buried local news coverage on the morning of the OKC bombing. The suspicious suicides of people like Sabow. The Mena connection. Emad Salem and the first WTC bombing. The Gulf of Tonkin and the LBJ tapes. The Ringworm Children....

But this one... this one is in many ways the most disturbing. For one thing the evidence is completely overwhelming and it's even been admitted. As soon as they admitted it happened, it should have blown the lid off the whole thing. Because this ship wasn't attacked by mistake. Even one of the Israeli pilots came out and told the truth.

Isnt it funny how no one seems to want to comment on this story? It's like people just wait for it to once again quietly disappear into the night. This seems to happen every time stories like this come around. No one wants to say anything. No one wants to do anything. And that's how it stays buried for 40 years.

Yet when Alternet posts an article about sex toys, it gets 500 comments. lol. That right there is proof of the slave mentality--that mentality which sets the stage for all these dark deeds to transpire. On a psychological level this is very much like an addiction. It's the same type of pathology. Ignorance coupled with denial. It is every person's own choice to live their life that way, but karma has a way doling out its own justice. As the millions of jews who died under Hitler would no doubt attest.

And that sort of begs the question: With so few even caring or daring to dive this far into it, it makes you wonder what else is lurking down here? Is there a link between Hilter and the Holocaust, the USS Liberty, the Ringworm Children, and the Iraq war? Is it all interconnected? Have the jews been used repeatedly as pawns in some sick and twisted illuminati/zionist game to create some sort of mythical final conflict in the middle east?

» Subterfudge Posted by: ray burchard
Another Theory
Posted by: Jim Shaw on Oct 10, 2007 7:36 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
An interesting theory about Israeli motivations was advanced by Peter Hounam in his book, “Operation Cyanide.” Mr. Hounam claimed that the Israelis, working with sympathizers in the U.S. government, decided to sink an American ship and blame it on the Egyptians and thereby bring the U.S. into the conflict, explicitly on their side. Another benefit would be that world opinion would swing in their favor. Of course, they would need to target an isolated vessel, making the Liberty a perfect choice.

According to Mr. Hounam, U.S. jets armed with nuclear weapons were initially dispatched toward Cairo before it was clear that the attackers were Israelis. Scary stuff.

» RE: Another Theory Posted by: goldmarx
» RE: Another Theory Posted by: Lauren
THERE'S A DIFFERENCE
Posted by: VZEQICVA on Oct 10, 2007 7:59 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Most American Jews have their roots in Europe and Russia, not Israel. Not all Israelis are Jewish. The pressure to support Israel no matter what comes from American politicians, and very few are Jewish. Israel provides the US with a "home" in The Middle East, for which we pay a high price. My point is that finding fault with Israel does not mean that a person has any bad feelings toward the Jewish people. That's their religion. Muddying up the waters doesn't help. Thanks, ANNA

» RE: THERE'S A DIFFERENCE Posted by: american
» RE: THERE'S A DIFFERENCE Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: THERE'S A DIFFERENCE Posted by: jbur816
» RE: THERE'S A DIFFERENCE Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: THERE'S A DIFFERENCE Posted by: jbur816
» RE: THERE'S A DIFFERENCE Posted by: Joshua Holland
» So by your logic... Posted by: D_comp
» RE: So by your logic... Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: THERE'S A DIFFERENCE Posted by: Aussie Kim
THERE'S A DIFFERENCE
Posted by: VZEQICVA on Oct 10, 2007 7:59 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Most American Jews have their roots in Europe and Russia, not Israel. Not all Israelis are Jewish. The pressure to support Israel no matter what comes from American politicians, and very few are Jewish. Israel provides the US with a "home" in The Middle East, for which we pay a high price. My point is that finding fault with Israel does not mean that a person has any bad feelings toward the Jewish people. That's their religion. Muddying up the waters doesn't help. Thanks, ANNA

Something's happening here, what it is ain't exactly clear
Posted by: mongo164 on Oct 10, 2007 8:06 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If Israel, and it's lobby in America, can get the US to cover up this murderous attack on us, doesn't it seem plausible that they could get any intelligence that the USS Liberty obtained covered up as well?
And if they had the knowledge that they can get away with an act of war, isn't anything else that happens a lesser offense that they could resolve?
In my experience when the truth of these mysteries finally comes out, it is usually a far cry from the suppositions that were kicked around in speculation.
The experts in all fields from the weather man to stock prognosticators to political pontificates and bloggers, never come up with the right answers more often than the law of averages allow.

A Toxic Relationship that Continues to Take American Lives
Posted by: BiscuitBoy on Oct 10, 2007 8:10 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The toxic relationship between Israel and the US must be terminated. But it's difficult to see that happening soon-- even the Democratic presidential candidates (except for Kucinich) are beholden to AIPAC and continually reiterate their support for Israel, knowing they will be blacklisted and vilified if they do otherwise. While all of the exact reasons for the Iraq War may perhaps never be known, it's certainly clear that it had nothing to do with WMD, and that the Israel lobby worked tirelessly for this war that has killed 4000 American troops and perhaps as many as 1,000,000 Iraqi civilians. We did not remove a threat to America-- we removed a perceived threat to Israel; and now we are being urged to remove another perceived threat to Israel, Iran.

Each of the presidential candidates should be thoroughly and vigorously questioned as to their exact reasons for continuing to support this rogue, apartheid-practicing state, when this relationship has cost the US nothing but an erosion in our treasury, a stumbling in our national standing, the needless death of our troops, and the emnity of one billion Muslims who seethe at the continued and continual injustice and ethnic cleansing being conducted against the Palestinians.

» Spot on. Posted by: american
This comment has been removed from the site due to non-compliance with AlterNet's community policies.
» crack cocaine is the best, isn't it? Posted by: KaptainSpiffy
USS Liberty Memorial
Posted by: fanny666 on Oct 10, 2007 9:14 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Some secret
Posted by: mike1997 on Oct 10, 2007 9:16 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I first heard about this "secret" in 1980 doing research for the college debate topic of that year. If a college debater at a small state school in the Sotheast corner of Missouri could find this story, I dobt the Mossad was keeping a tight lid on it!

gailhen
Posted by: gailhen on Oct 10, 2007 9:40 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I really respect Mr. McGovern, but to entitle this article as a "secret" seems to me to be an inflammatory way to provide attention to the article. This was a well known and publicized event at the time it happened. I am in no way excusing the event nor making an apologia for Israel or the machinations of the United States; however, with the world so volatile, I think a more judicious approach to events is called for. Again, not excusing behavior, the USA was up to its eyeballs in the cold war at the time and Israel was a pawn in this game with the US using it as their entry into the Middle East; Russia was playing this game with Egypt, Syria, etc. And I have no doubt that Israel knew and still knows it is a "pawn" in the US' game plan and doesn't give a hoot as it has its own agenda. When I first visited Israel in 1971, it became very apparent to me that the citizens were neither "Jews" nor "Zionists," but Israelis, and this was a nation similar to any other nation on the world scene with its own political agenda, for good or bad, but certainly only concerned with its survival as is any nation. And yes, as a Jew, I do admit that I am just tired of the words "Jew" and "Zionist" used as epithets. When I see comments with those two words rather than "Israeli" that is the signal to me of anti-semitic thinking whether conscious or unconscious.

» EPITHETS? Posted by: Overburdened Planet
» Sure, used as an epithet ... Posted by: Joshua Holland
» Oh for gawd's sake. Posted by: justaguy
» RE: Oh for gawd's sake. Posted by: Joshua Holland
Sorry, this comment has been removed from the system.
Sorry, this comment has been removed from the system.
» RE: Oh for gawd's sake. Posted by: AMERICAN VETERAN
» RE: Oh for gawd's sake. Posted by: Lauren
a real shame....
Posted by: xvictor on Oct 10, 2007 10:27 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It was a real shame the US jets scrambled from the seventh fleet were recalled in midflight. It would have been a very interesting scenario watching our boys blast those zionist jets out of the sky. Long live America!!!!!

» RE: a real shame.... Posted by: AMERICAN VETERAN
The Way I Heard It Is...
Posted by: aonghus36 on Oct 10, 2007 10:38 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
from someone who is normally on the side of the Palestinians, and against the Israelis, said that Israel declared certain areas in the Meditterean a war zone. The concept of international waters vs territorial waters can change during a time of war, I suppose. Anyways, Israel warned nations not involved in the war to leave the area, since it was a war zone. The Soviets, wisely, left the area, but the U.S., unwisely, refused to budge. So, the the U.S. got attacked. Anyways, this is what I heard.
Maybe it's just me, but if I hear so much as two people arguing, I'll leave the area. I have a hard time understanding that not everybody does this.

Alternet: thank you for writing stuff no one else will touch.
Posted by: american on Oct 10, 2007 10:42 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There is never a bad reason for the facts.

Um...no
Posted by: owlsliveintrees on Oct 10, 2007 10:53 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Israeli's were going to attack the golan? no shit. They were massacring prisoners? Come on. The U.S.S Liberty conspiracy theory falls apart when one realizes there was absolutely no reason for Israel to bother sinking the Liberty. Sometimes the fog of war is pretty thick. Israel didn't need the U.S. to enter the war, they had it well in hand. There has never been any evidence of some mass slaughter of Egyptian prisoners, and if Israel has America in its pocket, why would america object to them taking the golan? If the Israel-U.S. relationship is strong enough to cover up the attack, it wasn't strong enough for israel to take a little slice of land? And these were reasons to justify attacking a U.S. intelligence ship? Please. Israel would risk its entire relationship with the United States for this? Because they knew that they could use their jewish contacts in the American government to cover it up? Please. The Jewish conspiracy angle has been played up the last couple days on Alternet, and its really starting to creep me out. You people need to chill. Use some common sense.

» Well ... Posted by: Joshua Holland
Sorry, this comment has been removed from the system.
» I guess you must be a "leader" Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: anti-latino BS from the Simpsons Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: anti-latino BS from the Simpsons Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: anti-latino BS from the Simpsons Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: check your rhetoric there Josh Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: check your rhetoric there Josh Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: check your rhetoric there Josh Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Um...no Posted by: leafsong1
» RE: Um...no Posted by: AMERICAN VETERAN
» there you go again Yellow Posted by: gretavo
» the proof is in the poofing Posted by: gretavo
No Secret is Right
Posted by: stargell on Oct 10, 2007 11:26 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What's with the conspiracy theory chatter? I learned this in Sunday school more than 20 years ago. Is this a slow news day or are some people stretching for another reason to bash Israel today?

» RE: I was unaware that this was a proven fact Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com
So military commanders are stupid? Do tell?
Posted by: Sojourner on Oct 10, 2007 12:14 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am watching Ken Burns' "The War" about WWII. A General Lucas kept the beach invasion at Anzio digging in while the Nazis on the heights above were given 8 undisturbed days to zero in with artillery on the exposed troops below who had no cover--zip, zero, zilch. A General Dahlquist sent a battalion who lost over 400 men in order to save 250. Of course the losses were Japanese-Americans who died to save Texas-Americans.

War is stupid. Those who declare it are stupid. Those who lead it are stupid. So the consequences are stupid--always, without fail.

Yes, WWII was necessary. But it's the exception that proves the rule. We mistakenly came to believe we were noble and incapable of committing horror--despite the Mexican-American War, the Philippines War, for imperialistic gain. Now the Iraq War shows how we are just like all the rest--monstrous.

What was the motive for the attack?
Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com on Oct 10, 2007 12:39 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The way I see it, if it is a historical fact that Israel knew that the U.S.S. Liberty was an American ship then they must have thought the U.S.S. Liberty intercepted communications that Israel did not want the U.S. to have.

I don't know what those communication intercepts could be but it was enough for Israel to attack the U.S. and risk not only losing our alliance but also risking war with us.

If President Johnson and Secretary McNamara knew the truth, that they deliberately attacked the U.S. why did they let Israel get away with it?

Were they informed about the information in the communiques, told lies about what was in the communiques, or did they feel that the incident wasn't worth losing Israel as an ally?

The truth is out there, are there any records as to who in Israel gave the order for the attack? or who was high enough in command to have given the attack order? were any major military generals let go by Israel shortly after the incident? or was no one in the Israeli military punished for this deliberate attack against an ally?

Nations are never really friends, they just use each other for common goals. Israel's goal of keeping the communiques secret and not known to the U.S. trumped their goal of keeping us as military allies and not enemies.

Those communiques have to be incredibly powerful or the leader in Israel who gave the order has to be a freaking moron who just got lucky that the U.S. and Israel stayed allies.


Regardless, I want to know why. The fact that the NSA would destroy records of communications intercepts (proving by the way that we did monitor Israeli communiques even though we said we would only monitor Arab ones) and keep this information from the people is one of the worst crimes a government can commit against its people, lying.

In a government by, of and for the people, the government must absolutely tell us the truth and keep us informed, lying is flat out unacceptable and those in government who lie to the public should be given serious felony jail sentences equal to punishments for murder.

Because they are killing our democratic republic when they lie to us, the people.

The Bell Curve
Posted by: ray burchard on Oct 10, 2007 12:44 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This comment is not meant to be condescending, just a point of fact. What would you think was the subliminal effect that Murray and Herrnstein were going for by authoring Jewish propaganda guised as an "official" study of intelligence biased to favor Jewish heritage. > "Many people refer to the Jews as a "race" < Yeah right.

This obvious attempt at stealing Jewish childrens positive psychological reinforcement from other people's children, in the past has been called "justification".

» Check your emotional facts Posted by: ray burchard
Who's dream
Posted by: ray burchard on Oct 10, 2007 12:58 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Is the Israeli, American connection really that much a mystery. With America’s inception being predicated on banning together England’s down trodden. Therefore the consequential interaction between conjoined organism factions, England’s tax oppression and the new colonies self determination creates a modality of creative liberalism as a nations innate direction. Then comes along Hitler’s cruelty toward it’s Jewish population and the American’s open their peace loving hearts and arms, surprise an allegiance to liberalism’s progressive equal rights thinking.

Then as America’s adopted, the Jews propagated and with the aid of nepotism, grew their hierarchy dominance in the fields of entertainment/news, and academia’s medical, judicial and financial direction, well if one was to dominate, not by an overwhelming majority but with a decisive edge, like (9 to 8.9999... ) then the “advantage of leverage is your’s and you have effectively cloned yourself. Therefore America’s growing love and there by allegiance to a mercantile mentality as a collective commerce mindset. Where everything is than a pathetic analogy equated to money, a little house with a picket fence, two cars in every garage and a chicken in every pot. America's greed where everything can be solved with more money.

Now we American’s may not all go to the same synagogue, but we worship at the same alter, the cash register.

In a universe with it’s predilection in duality, if “The devil is in the details”, then logically God must be in the “whole”. Therefore, this means the same matrix configuration that governs the individual components also governs the composite “whole”.

Which indicates that the matrix configuration found in physical cloning (biological) is the same matrix found in metaphysical (psychological) cloning. The body in conjunction with the head equals the animated “whole” of man, and therefore God is in the process.

Then the logical conclusion would be that by sidestepping the ameliorating effects of “Time” (evolutions natural selection), would then bring the maladies associated with age (evolutions manifest hate toward ethnic domination), sooner than later.

But then the genius of the “whole”, (totality) would be missed by the mastery of the superfluous

» RE: Who's dream Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Who's dream Posted by: ray burchard
pawns in a lage pond
Posted by: solrev on Oct 10, 2007 12:59 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I do not know why the USS Liberty was attached. I just know it happened, as does everyone else. I also know having been there that one of the things that scared me most was friendly fire. Fire fights are so out of control who wins has as much to do with luck as military capability. I think the power of Israel to control events is overestimated. Israel is as much a pawn in what is happening as we are. These people are trying to go way beyond nations and I do not care what their last names are. The goal is to be able to control every nation without being accountable to any nation. They will sacrifice Israel just as fast as they would America if it suits their need.

Separating semitism from humanism
Posted by: tlawiv on Oct 10, 2007 2:45 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We are all human and are subject to human nature. There are some very ugly attributes of human nature that are directly related to our fear response. The whole lizard-brain controlling the big brain thing. Racism, Xenophobia and other 'isms'. Almost none of the symptoms of these 'isms' are triggered in a vacuum. So exactly what has been the cause or causes that have triggered anti-semitism throughout the millenia of history? What is the coincidence that these people keep getting attacked and threatened with annhilation?
Most of what most people know about Jewish history is what we've read about in the Old Testament, and that is one big persecution-complex sob-story. Paleontology and anthrologic studies have actually corroborated some of these yet completely refuted some of the details of biblical events, Then you get into the Holocaust. My 31 year old wife told me that when she was in high school that her history textbook barely discussed this. I learned a lot about it in HS and I'm only 4 years older though I did go to catholic school so maybe that made a difference. Holocaust denial is something I don't understand but it is intriguing that it has gained the traction that it has. I guess Vatican I theology must encourage it. It amazes me that someone like Mel Gibson, who is intelligent, intellectually curious, a student of history through his various projects and role research could seemingly hold anti-semitic views and make what was really a anti-semitic movie. It's also interesting that the Catholic Church could elect a former Hiter Youth Pope who has already struck out against the Vatican II, if not already rescinded it. I digress.
It's interesting to me how many center-left to outright left-wing Jewish people in the U.S. are hypersensitive about defending Israel when a majority of people in Israel are not supportive of their governemts actions and are held hostage by the militant minority in their country. Israelis are dying because of the oppression of their goverment on the Palestinians because those politicians are just as corrupt and moneygrubbing as the current U.S. leadership. Of course Ohmert and Likud are getting fat cash from land developers who keep stealing Palestinian territory while they starve these people into extinction. Eventually though, all of Israel will probably get dirty-bomb nuked into extinction by a suicide bomber unless real change can be made. This will never happen if even the American left-wing can't be honest about the difference between Israel's right to exist versus their greedy politicians right to steal land. There is a percentage of any population that will agressively strive to steal all it can grab under any justification and claim legitamacy any way it can. These people always seem to rise to the top of politics and business and usually make them one and the same. It seems that this percentage in Israel has been great at making its theft legitimate by charging its critics as being antisemitic. These people in Israel have been the perfect bedfellows for American politicians grabbing for as much power and money as possible. I feel bad for Israelis and I feel bad for Palestinians, who have also been used for unscrupulous Arab leaders who have gathered wealth and power using the plight of Palestine as a rallying cry to achieve power while doing nothing of substance to alleviate the painful conditions Palestinians are enduring. So that brings us back to human nature, and this cuts deeper than any other 'isms' that enter our collective consciousness.

rationale for liberty attach
Posted by: mbass100 on Oct 10, 2007 3:16 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
According to John Loftus and mark Arons, the Israelis new that the Liberty were spying on thier war-sensitive communications and turning certain information over to the Arabs. Therefore, the Israelis made the decision to take the Liberty out. An agreement was made between the Johnson administration and the Israelis that the facts would not be disclosed because it would look bad for both sides, The US spying on it's allie Israel and Israel killing US Salors. The "accident" story became the cover and both sides have stuck ti it to this day.

» RE: rationale for liberty attach Posted by: owlsliveintrees
» RE: rationale for liberty attach Posted by: Aussie Kim
Oh Woe is Me
Posted by: ray burchard on Oct 10, 2007 5:05 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Now we all will be inundated with a litany of Jewish rational excusing their actions. From poor me the victim, to it was them, and all the convoluted reasoning and conspiracy theories in between.

When in fact it wasn’t the majority of Jews that are actually responsible. It is that faction of influential Academics that act as the harbingers of greed and the rest of the Jews, just like the rest of the civilized world, were sucked into this mindset of cancerous contagion, greed. Then this mentality was coagulated by financial gain and reinforced by obsession’s grip.

Now there is no denying the fact that avarice is the motivating factor in progress and likewise there is no denying that avarice’s obsession, greed, is societies as well as the individual’s (capitalism) evil. Its also equally obvious that the malleable business ethics and morality seen demonstrated by corporate Americas quest for more and more profit, as well as America’s bought and paid governance does not posses the intestinal fortitude required to arrest and manage civic best interest. There are long lasting and animated resolutions. But this is neither the time or the venue for that.

Likely That Intercepts Pertained to Israeli WMD's
Posted by: sofla100 on Oct 10, 2007 5:15 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think it is probable that NSA intercepts (from Liberty) were pertaining to the Israeli accumulation and development of WMD's. This is why Liberty was attacked. She had "overheard" highly classified Israeli military communications. Now, we don't know for sure where Israel was at that time in her nuclear weapons development program. She is known to have over 250+ nukes today, but at that time, she may only have had stockpiles of Sarin and other nerve gases. Now, Israeli has made no bones that she will attack, even pre-emptively, and we have to therefore assume she could use WMD's. Of course, the Liberty finding out about this and where stockpiles were being moved (as part of the war plan), possibly for use at the time, is extremely sensitive. Therefore, after the Liberty incident, the Israeli's were successful in squelching the story. The USA also realized that if the truth came out, the region would be further de-stabalized. Therefore, it was determined it was in the USA best interest for Liberty to disappear from the radar screens. How plausible is this scenario? I think it is quite plausible. Also, consider that undoubtedly the USA has certainly known when Israeli first developed nuke capacity and did nuke testing several decades ago. Yet, not ever a word from the USA. This is sensitive because for the USA to come out and really acknowledge what they know, countries like Iran could not be criticized for developing nukes for a self-defense capability. Something not deemed in the USA interest.

» exactly Posted by: gretavo
Secret?
Posted by: Aussie Kim on Oct 10, 2007 6:03 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What secret? There was a doco about this attack on australian tv a few years ago.

British attack Baltimore: British lobby feared
Posted by: Ripcord on Oct 10, 2007 6:41 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Come on,
Isreal's attack on the USS Liberty is no secret--

so why connect this with Jewish influence on American politics?

Remember that in 1814 the British deliberately attacked
Ft. McHenry--

Does this prove a Bush-Blair conspiracy to invade Iraq?

Looks like bolstering an argument with demogogery,
scare tactics

just like Bush/Guiliani/et.al invoke 9/11 and the War on Terrorism to justify preemptive wars

P.S. one of my NROTC instructors at the U of Idaho was Cmdr. McGonagle (the Liberty's skipper)--
so this means that I'm a hero, too, right?

Deliberate - what's new? UN Observer Post
Posted by: kawenata on Oct 10, 2007 7:04 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
25 Jul 2006 and Israeli destroyed the UN Observer Outpost on the Lebanon border. That post had sat there for 30 plus years. Despite repeated calls to Israeli to check their artillery they continued until the post was hit with the loss of 4 lives. Apparently that too was a 'mistake' just like the Liberty!

» al Jazeera is BS Posted by: gretavo
I happen to know...
Posted by: opeluboy on Oct 10, 2007 7:16 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...one of the most prominent Liberty survivors, and have known him for years. He is a fine man, not anti-Semitic, was severely wounded in this treacherous attack (and still suffers intensely) and in 5 minutes conversation with him you will not only ignore the Israeli apologists and the continuous bullshit they have spewed but come to the inarguable conclusion that this was a cover-up by our government and an intentionally murderous attack by our "ally."

Do not bother to argue this with me.

The Hidden Day
Posted by: kattmann on Oct 10, 2007 7:45 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Hidden Day is only more evidence that the Zionists/Nazis from Israel are not real or true friends of the USA. They only like our money and weapons. I will again call for air strikes against all of Israels military and government facilities. Until they agree to return to the borders as set up in the original 1948/9 agreement. For them to end all acts of aggression on their neighbors. I also want all Israeli's with US citizenship to be deported with only the clothes on their backs and never let them or any of their blood relatives back into the US. Israel is the cause of all unrest in the region since 1948, and they did it on the behalf of the oil corporations and the military industrial complex, who were the only ones to gain anything from these endless wars.

» RE: The Hidden Day Posted by: kattmann
» RE: Spare us the racio-religionist diatribe Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com
» RE: where did he mention the holocaust? Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: you're being dishonest again Josh Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: you're being dishonest again Josh Posted by: Joshua Holland
» what it has to do with.... Posted by: gretavo
» RE: what it has to do with.... Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: picking on Josh Posted by: Lauren
» Yes, I disagree Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Yes Posted by: Lauren
What Coverup?
Posted by: rdrdrd1 on Oct 11, 2007 9:20 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Somewhere gathering dust in my basement is a copy of the paperback "Attack on Liberty" that fully describes this incident. It even has photos, taken by the Liberty's crew, of Israeli helicopters attacking the ship. I assume the book led to the production of the TV documentary mentioned in these letters.

I don't recall any suggestion that the Liberty's intelligence was being given to any Arabs. As I recall, the Liberty had gained intel proving that assurances given Washington by Israel were outright lies. That's why the ship was attacked with the intention of sinking her.

This wasn't the only Israeli attack on American forces. Israeli Air Force, F-4 Phantoms (American made) fired air-to-air missiles (American made) against one or more SR-71 recon aircraft that were gathering intelligence on the fighting. The SR-71 (Mach 3+) managed to easily outrun the missiles.

» RE: What Coverup? Posted by: aonghus36
Whats Richard Herrnstein's bio
Posted by: ray burchard on Oct 11, 2007 1:13 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
yellow,

>"You are obviously obsessed with race"< and the last time you responded on my arguments demonstrating the injustice of social bias (feminsim) your scholarly retort was a personal attack then too. Indicating a logic based in emotion, see: Simon Baron-Cohen‘s empathising-systemising (E-S).

But back to the issue, we can see how the connate interaction dominance of testosterone/estrogen creates man's modality (predilection) to systems logic and aggression. While the connate interaction dominance of estrogen/testosterone creates the women's modality (predilection) to empathy and cultured art appreciation.

» RE: Whats Richard Herrnstein's bio Posted by: ray burchard
Synthesize "Holism"
Posted by: ray burchard on Oct 12, 2007 11:02 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Sojourner,

I believe the following may lend some clarity to your quest to find an understanding to Kant’s conceptual complexity and as you say, > “a very fragile network” < of the conjugated two worlds of phenomenal and noumenal (actual/effectual). The fact is, it is neither overly vexing nor fragile. What it is, is very pervasive and repetitive, and a quite simple system (The principal matrix is the Mobius Band), but put in motion (animation) as in split and split again, thereby creating a seemingly perpetual motion.

The Mobius Band effect is created by the Sun’s semi fixed bombardment, emitting subatomic (3 quark configuration) particles to the earth in it’s rotating path around the sun in conjunction with the earth’s own axis rotation. This Mobius twist, intertwining effect creating memory through repetition (magnitude) seen reflected in analemma and the conjoined North/South magnetic fields. The Mobius Bands cleaved configuration of a larger band with 4 twist, can be seen demonstrated in the paired dual equinox system in the earth’s one year rotation around the sun and again in the intertwined of individual paths of the 3 quarks in the hydrogen atom.
Then the Mobius Band’s cleaved and cleaved again configuration, is interlocked duality, like the links of a chain ie. (man/woman), (space/time),

The Mobius Band’s triad configurations in their encompassing entirety can be seen illustrated by the dual hormonal conjugational, (men’s testosterone/estrogen plus women‘s estrogen/testosterone), reality as a “whole”. Where the (man/woman)’s encompassing dual gender’s gene cross over as a “whole” reality being a mathematical homoscedastic, quadratic, concentric union.

Your plight and desire is in accord with Albert Einstein’s life long quest to conceptualize the unity of the many paradox that rule the Universe. His preclusion, was in his acknowledged inability to see “time” as a factor in causation, which you may not realize is the same stumbling block as your own. You both, as many others, believe that the prevalent principal of universal duality, like (men/women), (space/time), (math/language) etc… etc… etc… are comprised of separate entities. But they are not. They are paired mutually ignorant descriptions of the same entity, in the terms of one and the other, a conjugated dichotomy, E.A.Milne‘s Kinematic Relativity.. Like the dichotomy in purpose and function as exampled by water as the medium that binds while simultaneously separates.
Example; take two small pieces of glass add a drop of water between them, then press together so all the air pockets are expelled and in doing this the two pieces of glass are temporally bound and therefore act in unison, as one. Now apply a little converse but equal horizontal force on the opposing edges of each individual piece of glass and they slide apart. Proving that while the water demonstrates an aspect that binds, it’s presents also simultaneously separates. Liken to the conjoined aspects of (“Actual/Effectual”), (physical/metaphysical) or (phenomenal/noumenal).

“I had therefore to remove knowledge, in order to make room for belief” (Kant).

» RE: Synthesize "Holism" Posted by: ray burchard
Real “Hidden Day” = 9/11 with its Israeli Spies
Posted by: Mister_PsyOps on Oct 12, 2007 6:43 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Up to 200 Israeli spies were busted on U.S. soil the day of 9/11. Many of these Israel spies had shadowed the 9/11 Saudi so-called highjackers. The media story on this was killed when the Jewish ADL’s Abe Foxman and prominent Israel advocate Alan Dershowitz threatened Fox News and other news outlets with the full weight of the U.S. government behind him.

The Israeli spies were never charged. The criminal “investigation” was killed before it had really begun. After being detained, the spies were packed up and sent home to Israel. No further questions asked.

Ray McGovern is one of many CIA analysts to call the official account of 9/11 into serious question. Interesting he would cite a “Hidden Day” so much older and less important than the obvious one.

» Whose Truth Posted by: ray burchard
» No "hostility" intended Posted by: stryder
For the gamblers out there. Whats the over/under on when they'll close the comments on this thread?
Posted by: yellow on Oct 13, 2007 9:46 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Just wondering?

» Tolerance Posted by: ray burchard
» RE: Tolerance Posted by: yellow
» RE: Tolerance Posted by: ray burchard
interesting stuff more on McGovern needed
Posted by: whealeydj on Oct 13, 2007 5:12 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Liberty incident is relatively obscure. I don't believe I heard about it until 1990s but I was only 6 at the time. I tend to believe the fog of war argument but evidence that it was deliberate is interesting. Is McGovern a 9/11 skeptic and conspiracy theorist?
I think the evidence it was fairly clear that 9/11 was done by Islamist terrorists even if FBI/CIA/NSA were too incompetent to prevent it. Blaming the Mossad for 9/11 is even more suspect, so how does that color McGovern claims about reasons behind about June 8 1967. I encourage people to follow Lady Liberty link and Chicago Tribune article link. I suspect it was a battlefield decision at the time and Israel and US government haven't wanted to get to the truth and turn it into a big deal . Heck most Americans don't want to remember that we shot down an Iranian civilian airliner in international waters during Iran Iraq war because we thought they might attack us like a Iraqi warplane had.

THE USS LIBERTY IS JUST THE TIP OF THE ICEBERG
Posted by: richardbee on Oct 13, 2007 5:53 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Excellent article Sir ! The truth of the USS LIBERTY incident is horrific as is all war, and the real issues brought to light by this incident and countless others like it are how the American populace have been manipulated by their ‘Representatives’ and the Zionist media. One can only hope that there will finally be public outcry and some form of united action against the continuing repression of truth and the concealment of the real motives for what has happened in the past, and for what is happening now. The truth is abundantly clear in the ‘Landman document’ where the Anglo-American Zionists published a document THREATENING THE British government, saying "You forget that you did not give us Palestine as an unsolicited gift (Balfour Declaration). It was handed over as the result of a secret bargain concluded between ourselves. We have scrupulously observed our part in bringing America into the war (WW2) on your side. We call on you to fulfill your obligations in turn. You are aware of our power in the United States: take care that you do not attract the hostility of Israel, otherwise you will come up against grave international difficulties." The USS LIBERTY is yet another example of a “secret bargain” where the lives of American servicemen were again forfeit for Israel. WHEN WILL ENOUGH BE ENOUGH ?

the aparthied regime of israel
Posted by: khalidissa on Oct 16, 2007 4:04 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The apartheid of Israel ruling party in the US

It is the apartheid of Israel ruling party in the United States and most of the Christian countries that support the corrupted apartheid regime of Israel. According to" Bishop Desmond Tutu" who won a noble prize for his work against the former apartheid of South Africa , and according to many others also like Nelson Mandela , Israel is considered an apartheid country. This party includes a corrupted racist portion of the Jews and Christians who dominate the world media , especially in the west and also dominate the Christian world governments , especially in the United States.
The characteristics of this party are reflected in the US policy against the Muslim world. In USA, either republicans or democrats, their policy goes toward supporting the Israeli apartheid regime which is based on religious discrimination between the Jews and the non-Jews, either Christians, Muslims or any other religion other than Judaism, While the x apartheid of South Africa was based on race discrimination between black and white.
The apartheid regime of Israel policy against the people living in West Bank and Gaza strip, has been directed toward isolating them in ghettoes preventing them from getting their independent and viable state. In order to be considered a viable state it's area must at least include the whole occupied land in 1967, otherwise, it will be considered unviable state, i.e., ghettoes or apartheid. And allow the Palestinian refugees to go back to their home land which is today cold Israel, Israel began its apartheid regime in 1948 when they decided to prevent the Muslims and Christians Palestinian refugees from coming back to their country after they kicked them out by doing massacres against civilian palestinains which is changed from Palestine to Israel in order to prevent them from voting right only because they are not Jews, Israel is still apartheid regime until the present time. and Israel apartheid will end only when the Palestinian refugees will be allowed to go back to Israel (Palestine 1948) their homeland and be given equal civil liberties exactly like the Jews and give them back their private properties that they were owning that was rubbed from them by Israel in 1948. and be compensated on their suffering all that long, if all this wasn’t achieved Israel will remain apartheid regime. Israel will remain apartheid until long time in the future because of the whole Christian world support to them since 1948 because the majority believe that Jesus will not come until Israel is very strong and Israel strong means Israel without Palestinian refugees given the right to return to it, and this means Jesus will come only when Israel continue to be apartheid regime, so Jesus is apartheid man according to the apartheid regime of Israel supporters.
The apartheid of Israel ruling party in USA opposes the freedom of the Muslims. The US policy went toward supporting the Muslim corrupted liberal dictatorships, preventing Muslims from getting democracy, imposing the west liberal culture on Muslims rather than leaving it to fair game elections (democracy), all in order to keep Muslims weak and Israel apartheid regime strong.
Israel wars with Arabs caused refugees from Palestine counted in millions, and the apartheid of Israel ruling parties in the Christian world for racist purposes anonymously, refuse to allow the Palestinians to implement their right that was represented in UN resolution (194) that gives the refugees the right to return to Palestine which is Israel today, and only accepts the UN resolutions 242 and 338, the right of return is proved as a practical solution. The apartheid of Israel ruling parties in the Christian world are racists, uncivilized, war criminals and Nazis because they refuse the right of return for refugees.