Why does alternuts like the scare and glare tactics so much? Who's axe are they grinding here?

There is ample proof the Greenland ice is growing thicker inland due to higher rates of snowfall - GOOGLE it. Same for Antarctica. No need to go out and buy a boat, but perhaps a warmer jacket, since we will start cooling here pretty soon.

I mean we had snow - twice - in September, and this is the Southwest. (Alarms going off)

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It is hard to shock journalists and at the same time leave them in awe of the power of nature. A group returning from a helicopter trip flying over, then landing on, the Greenland ice cap at the time of maximum ice melt last month were shaken. One shrugged and said:"It is too late already."

OMG a journalist said it was too late already!!!! OMG OMG OMG!!!! Like a journalist is a final authority on this stuff, ya.

Here's a report from Ohio State University where they study Polar Ice at the Byrd Polar Research Center -

Scientists here are calibrating data from NASA’s Ice, Cloud, and land Elevation Satellite (ICESat), and using the satellite to study the ice streams that carry ice from the interior of the WAIS out to sea.

Early results of the study clearly show that all the ice streams of the WAIS have changed substantially in the last five years, but each in its own way, explained Bea Csatho, research scientist at Ohio State's Byrd Polar Research Center (BPRC) and head of the calibration project.

Csatho presented those early results on December 10 in a poster session at the American Geophysical Union meeting in San Francisco.

According to the ICESat data, some WAIS ice streams are thickening and others are thinning; some are flowing faster than before, and others are slowing down.
Find it here

Basically, we still don't know what's going on - but nooooo. Gore says it's definitive. The IPCC says it's definitive.... Could it be they all want the same thing? MORE MONEY

First figure out what's really going on - then tells us about it. This is shameful.

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All you coastal folks can come inland and help blue up the hinterlands. Maybe then we can elect a decent Congress and President.

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mr AL GORE and MR BILL CLINTON are nowadays given lectures to the world saying there are many jobs and many money in the Climate bussiness.

No matter what subject is the topic in alternet; war in IRAK, war on drugs, war on pedofiles, poor health insurance;e.you will find the same formula.

i.e..1. some people abuse human emotions to make a lot of money.
2.first step scare people, tell them about the bogeymen trying to rape your little daughter and only if you buy the CReepmans insurance policy she is safe.
3.Oh.Oh. soon you will have no oil anymore and bearded bums will bomb your city... only if you spend billions of dollars the Creepmans coorporation will send 100.000 brave guards to protect you.

in the majority of civilised industrial countries all over the world there is a choice between governmental and private health care, housing, and education.
Think how would you feel if you hadnot FEAR about health care and education or unemployment???? The majority of people donot call this Socialisme like some alternet readers!

Now to Nature;
If you only can think : the work we do, the action we take must give results for our shareholders all measurements made by ALGORE worldsavecorporation will have no results for the normal people.
Only the USA as a state is able to make laws to change things.
Look in IRAK, because the warmomgers make millions this war never ends.
So if companies are making turnover in climatechanges the world will suffer for ever.
The core is the vulture capitalisme.

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I won't be frightened by these fear-mongers. After all, they are just out for money, just like these posters are saying.

I'm certain that Al Gore, the scientists, and others who are warning us about global warming and telling us we need to cut emissions by 80% just can't wait until the day eveyone is handcuffed by a lack of resources. When living in the exurbs is no longer a dream, but more of a nightmare, since there will be little or no fuel to make a daily commute. In fact, our whole way of life might just have to change altogether. This might force us to follow a whole different set of economic principles, like building stuff to last instead of wasting resources to keep consumers busy shopping in stores to buy replacements for crappy goods.

Gosh, I guess the scientific fear-mongers are all part of a geek conspiracy who might just be wrong. In which case, we will have all just wasted a lot of time when we could have been busy burning out our resources needlessly to support an economic system that primarily enriches the already wealthy, with a few scraps thrown out to the rest of us to keep us "happy."

(BTW, I am wrong about my opinion, as you will see briefly. The neocons on this list will teach me how WRONG I am, by citing a few sources who disagree with nearly every scientist on earth. It's time to do away with people who believe in all that science and community crap. They are interfering with BIG BUSINESS!!!)

I can't wait to see if the scientists are all WRONG. Of course, if they aren't, there won't be much of anything to see -- above water, anyway.

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It gets warmer!
90 in New York in October.
70 in the Middle of January
2012 is The Magic number
Read it and Weep.
The Great Flood
The World will be shaken up
From the bottom to the top.
Till you finally cry
UNCLE!
Then the Poles will shift.
Things will change
In the Twinkling of an Eye.
And you will be still
Frozen
In front of
Your Boob Tube
Like a T.V. Dinner.
Hypnotized by
The Corporate Puppet Masters
FAUX NEWS
Telling you to
Stay where you are
While everyone is drowning!
Sound familiar?
Katrina!
911

A TRILLION DOLLARS for a Heartless WAR.
Nothing for a Sick Kid
If Socialized Medicine is good enough for
The Shrub
It's good enough for me!

Somebodies got there priorities wrong?
All the Cor'pirate' Talking Heads and
Hypocrites in our Government.
Talking out of both ends of their bodies
At the same time.
It's quite a show.
Cor-pirates talking
BU__! SH__!
24 X 7
365
FOREVER!
While robbing you blind.

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I mean, really, isn't it time that we recognize that global warming cannot be reversed and begin planning on how to deal with its future effects.

Sure there will be losers, like New York City, Florida, the Gulf Coast, but there will be ecological winners also, Canada and Russia maybe. There will be mass extinctions, to be sure, but evolutionists know, for a fact, that extinction is the engine of evolution. Coca-Cola guzzling polar bears will no longer gambol with friendly, tap dancing penguins but new species will be evolving before our very eyes, and won't that frost the creationists' balls!

So from my perspective, we've already missed the boat on reversing global warming. There is no way to stop it if even if we all get out of our automobiles, throw away our old-fashinoned incandescent light bulbs and generate all our electricity through wind and sun. The global community should have begun taking sets to slow global warming twenty to thirty years ago, there were signs evident even then.

Don't get me wrong, I see the effects of global warming in my own little sphere of existance. Yesterday, for instance, I saw a praying mantis on my deck. In October! In Iowa! And I won't lie by saying I miss the long, bone-chilling Midwestern winters of my youth. Thanks to global warming we Iowans haven't been gouged as badly as we might be by our natural gas utility, not that they don't keep trying every winter, so there is an "upside."

Do I think, however, we should stop all efforts to switch from fossil fuels to cleaner alternative energy? No. I advocated clean energy long before I ever heard of global warming. Research and data on the health costs and environmental degradation caused by particulate matter spewed into the atomsphere from the buring of fossil fuels was well underway in the Sixites and Seventies. Of course, if the United States had not had 27 years of anti-environmentalism, beginning with the Reagan-Bush 1 misadministration in 1981, perhaps the world would not now find itself in these dire straits.

So really, all we can do, as human beings and citizens of the planet, is make the best of it, roll with the punches and try and create a better world on the ashes of this one.

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There are none so blind as those who play ostrich and refuse to see. Can you stick your head into the sand any deeper??? Is it selfishness, because you all don't want to change your way of life? Or just an urge to ignore the gloom and doom?

We have known about greenhouse gasses from our energy consumption since at least the 80's. This is not new technology we're talking about you fools! This is just the time that we can see the fruits of our labor...melting ice caps! And if you can't/won't go to Greenland or Alaska or Antartica or Michigan's UP or Lake Tahoe or Canada's glacier or ANYWHERE to see for yourself, USE YOUR FREAKING COMMON SENSE! The winter's are getting milder. Period. Summer is lasting longer and getting hotter. Uh, 2+2 still equals 4, no matter how much you don't want it too.

At least take some action for our children's children. Selfish. I am appalled. Do you believe this is really a war we're fighting too? Might as well jump on all Tricky Bush's bandwagons!!!!!
Signed,
Disgusted with the Sheep of America

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When I read this and other articles on the suject of the climate of the planet I am always astounded that the position taken is always suject-object as if this is our planet. This is not OUR planet! The human animal is simly part of the whole. As a species we have devastaed and destroyed almost everything else in the system we have come into contact with. We have ravaged, burned, poluted and murdered both our own kind and other species for pleasue short term gain and greed. Now we have released enormous quatities of carbon into the atmosphere that the planet had taken millions of years to store away to create a balance in which all life could flourish and evolve. The balnce is redressing!
The consequeses of our actions have been felt by all the life on earth and now it's our turn. I know christians and other cults believe their god will save them or make them a new planet to play on but I doubt it. The sociopaths that control our societies, like all sociopaths, only relate to their own ego driven greed and will do little or nothing. So, sit back in your hummer, turn up the a/c and watch your children and grandchildren suffer and die in the disaster we have all helped to bring about.

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This abonitation (New York Citi)
will dsapear

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The Sierra Nevada mountains in California are home to dozens of glaciers, mostly small ones. This year when I saw them they were all the smallest I've ever seen them in 20 years of visits. On one the tail was almost completely gone, leaving an empty moraine. The total surface area was less than half as large as it was the previous year (an especially big snow year) in almost every case.

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Idiots on the left are not better than idiots on the right

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Anyone who still believe that global warming is a "hoax" has been brainwashed by oil company propaganda. In the scientific community, global warming has not be "controversial" for 20-30 years. VERY FEW scientists ever doubted the obvious evidence. It is unbelievable to me how the general public has been fooled into thinking there is a legitimate debate. NO! the debate is fabricated by a bunch of PR agencies who have no interest in the truth, they merely want to promote the agenda of those who pay them big bucks. And people think the tree huggers are motivated by money? Oh, gimme a break. who told them that? Rush Limbaugh? The mainstream media feeds on corporate news releases and the oil companies have been pouring out lies and garbage on global warming for years. No one with ANY BRAINS falls for that crap though. Oh my gosh, you mean that many people are brainless? guess so.

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The "Preacher" got it right: There is nothing new under the sun. As long as money has been around, it has topped all else in terms of motivation. Think about Ibsen's ENEMY OF THE PEOPLE -- same basic story. Fatal bacteria lurk in the city's mineral spas, but the doctor who dares to warn the populace of the danger is attacked and excoriated for threatening the community's primary source of income from tourists coming to "take the waters." Better to die rich and take innocent lives with you than live broke.

Where do all the people who plan to wring the last farthing out of fossil fuel use plan to live when the jig's up -- or don't they care? Of what use will their money be, unless it's to migrate to another planet (good luck!)?

I hope all you nay-sayers out there can tread water indefinitely.

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Rising oceans
stronger, more frequent hurricanes
stronger, more fequent tornadoes
extreme flooding
extreme drought
more above and below average temps
more deforestation worldwide
increased asthma
more cancer showing up.....IN THE USA
increased levels of CO2 and more ozone

so, if there's no global warming going on, then what's causing it. I'm asking the experts this question because they don't seem to have an clear answer either, cause when they are asked, they give vague, eskhewed statements and not the damn answer to the question, like what the GOP and most Democrats do!

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some people deny human responsability for climate change is they're afraid if big corporations are obliged to spend billions on pollution control, their profit margins will fall and the value of their stocks will also fall. They need an ever-growing population for an ever-expanding economy, regardless of consequences = better rich on a dying planet than poor on a living one, which of course is madness, since no one needs to be poor if wealth is distributed fairly to a smaller human population.

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Here in Missouri, the temperature during the fall has gotten steadily warmer and save for today, its been well above 70 for the past 3 months. Summers here (as is the case the world over) are progressively hotter and winter is either like fall or quite severe (in 06'). Though I'm no scientist, I have observed new birds migrating here to KC as well as new types of insects (with less of the old ones). Oh, and periodic flooding here (partly the fault of an antiquated sewer system) is a common occurance. The earth is definately changing and the changes are easy to spot if you know how to pay attention.

We cannot hope, however, to deal with this climate change issue while hoping that the present capitalist system of commerce and trade remains...if anything, capitalism is a major cause of climate change and while I'm not saying socialism is solely the answer, we do have to consider all of the factors in addressing the problem.

Anyway, my 2 cents.

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We ought not be arguing over whether there is global warming. Yes, Bush until just recently wanted no one messing with his oil fortune, so he denied it.

Now we have moved to stage #2. Will some of the worst consequences hit us in this century or not until the next century? (If you look at the blurb at the beginning of this article, that's the journalist's subject.) How much time do the most vulnerable locations have to protect themselves? That's the remaining argument.

And, yes, the writer dramatized and exaggerated. And so do some of the comments here--even while leaning in the other direction. Denial comes in many forms. The Maldives Islands in the south Pacific are scheduled to go back below the sea at some point soon--20 years, 30 years. It will probably take that for the denyers (not to shut up because denial can be a way of life) to lose their last shred of credibility.

Everything now depends on when we get going on regaining a helpful influence on our climate. We cannot reverse what we have done. We can correct its worst results.

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But the folks that really control things,are planning for it.
When I was a boy,back before there was such a thing as the EPA, The damage to the environment had critters dying off,ecosystems failing at a regular pace and rivers setting themselves on fire. Token laws were passed and there was a lot of grandstanding and then there was Love Canal.Drinking water fron thousands fowled by indusrty forcing many to leave their properties.Laying waste to the American Dream.
Industry responded with the home water purifying system.
As our emissions improved we warned the Congress they had twenty years,maybe less, to get their act together before an irreversable greenhouse effect would be created. Industry's
response? SP45 sun blocker and cheap air conditioners. The creation of a million new products that need eletricity to work and have a constant power draw when they are supposed to be turned off. Industry knows it's altering the weather patterns,sea levels and air quality for every living thing.
The pisser is....they knew it generations ago and engineered for it so they could be first at the profit line when the changes start happening. So we,the people, have been sold out,yet again, by the Government for the benefit of the Wealthy. They
know climate change is here and can't be stopped. But they also have plenty of supplys for the picking and choosing. With lovely water front condos and gondolas and of course water purifyers and air cleaners.
Think Outside the System
Jeffrey7

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Who is it that benefits most by (1) denying that global warming is occurring, and (2) if it is occurring, we can't do anything to stop it? That's right, those big fossil-fuel companies, and all the other companies that depend on fossil fuel for their wealth. They don't want to change anything, because they've got too much invested in the status quo.

Consider this from a report sponsored by the right-wing John Locke Foundation and written by Joseph Schwartz in July 2007: "The restrictions they [environmentalists] seek to force on the world would require us to relinquish the energy consumption that undergirds the extraordinary prosperity, health, and comfort of life in the U.S., the nations of Europe, and other wealthy countries. At the same time, those restrictions would prevent individuals in the world's poorest nations from aspiring to the rich world's quality of life, consigning them instead to continued poverty an hardship."

Now, doesn't that sound like one rich person telling other rich people not to give up their creature comforts just to save something meaningless like the environment? And doesn't it also tell poor people that if they want some trickle-down effects from the very rich, they ought to sacrifice their environment as well? Why don't we call them what they are: "selfish bastards." They pay off researchers to gather evidence for the view that will keep the wealth flowing into their coffers. If that means that the environment suffers, so be it. They don't want to pay more taxes to clean up what they've damaged, and they want their fossil-fuel gravy train to keep on running. After all, what's the destruction of the environment compared to a good magnum of Dom Perignon.

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Weather does not always conform to latitude and longitude confines as mankind would desire. The northeastern part of Canada has been having increasingly cold winters and more snow which counteracts the Greenland changes. Can the farmers in Iceland now grow the grains they grew in the years 800 to 1250? They will be very happy to see their "climate" (LoL) return to what it was in the olden days. Before any drastic conclusions are made about climate change it might be well to open up for discussion what the Russions were doing in Wrangle Island for about 40 years to try to influence climate change; same goes for Russian experiments in Eastern Europe using very low frequency waves on lines hundreds of miles long. VLF=around 10 CPS. Same goes for U.S. experiments in Northern Canada called High Altidude Auroral Replication Project. HAARP. Another way to melt the North Polar ice float other than warming, is to break it up with ice-breakers and with atomic submarines which we have been diligently doing for decades. There are ancient maps showing practically no ice cap at Antartica and these old maps have been authenticated by soundings through the present Ice Cap. The river beds have been authenticated by core sampling. Let's not get frantic, let nature do its thing. We can handle the consequences as we always have since Homo Sapiens was born millions of years ago.

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I talked to a couple people some time ago who stated that there's no such thing as global warming, caused by us. Their "evidence" was the past ice ages which occured when there was no human race to influence them. I asked how they knew there were ice ages in the past, and they said "science proves it". I asked if they trusted the opinions of scientists, to which they replied "yes". I then asked them what factors were involved in the onset of past ice ages and their ending. They didn't have a clue, but in their opinion, global warming is what caused, and is causing the end of the last ice age and the current warming trend. They further stated that Al Gore is nothing but a nut case and political gadfly, using the old lie that he claimed to be the inventer of the internet (he didn't) and he's also a fear monger. Of course, they hadn't seen "An Inconvienent Truth" or read "Earth in the Balance". Gore aside, they"ve reached the conclusion that global warming-if it exists at all-is a natural process, and those who say different are arrogant in the extreme to say that we mere humans could even begin to influence any change. I then asked them that if those same scientists who they claim they trust are saying that if we're not causing global warming outright, we're certainly not helping matters by adding vast amounts of carbon dioxide to our atmosphere, if they'd believe that. They claimed there's no consensus among scientists, therefore global warming is a non-issue. This is a real problem, folks as it seems a large percentage of our people can be programmed with and parrot neocom talking points on command.

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Reading some of the extraordinary and violently negative comments about this article is depressing. One gets the feeling that a large number of people are rushing away from rational discourse and healthy scepticism, towards something else altogether. It's almost a belief in faith-based science. That is, I'm not going to observe the world and adjust my ideas based on reality, I'm going to do the exact opposite! I've got a set of ideas about how the world functions, and I'm going to stick to them no matter what, and furthermore, I'm going to do my best to force objective reality to conform to my faith!

This is a recipe for longterm disaster. We seem to be turning our backs on over two centuries of progress and science and rationality; and turning towards superstition again. Bye, bye, the enlightenment and hello a new dark age mentality. At the rate we're going we'll end up sacrificing witches to appease the weather gods and reverse global warming!

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Well I guess Global warming is a myth!
But think about! We have pumped billions if not trillions of gallons
of oil from the ground and most has created heat. Where did all that heat go?
Yes some places do get snow but if it's not staying like it has in past years
how can we think were not part of it! And it's not slowing but increasing!
I guess we could fill them oil well with sea water to get rid of some of it.
It really amazes me how some posters say "let stick to the facts"
OK we can but who was alive back when it melted last time?
That's like these so called experts saying they know how the twin towers
would fall as if they already knocked building down that size.
With the enviroment we can not wait for fact because they will only be fact
after the fact. And the poster who said about seeing trees in museums.
Look at all the trees we cut down and take into consideration also the trees
lost to wild fires and then add to that whats used in papper mills and cut down
to build houses in there place or roads or whatever.
This is a fact! We can not have a economy that forever goes on!
Maybe we can devert some of the rising waters to places like the grand cannon
or death vally or even other places but we still have to face the heat.
We are making the earth heat up faster by roads and buildings.
Progress is good but at the cost of our own exstintion!
The people here who think only of there self are the ones who think it's just
a natrual cycle and it won't happen in there life time.
But what about the future generations? They deserve a world that can sustain
people. The hotter it get's the more energy will be used for food and cooling
our homes. being one of the biggest pigs on the planet should mean we should
lead the pack on fixing the problem.
No I guess sticking our heads in the sand will do just fine!

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I live in manhattan, but probably wont be able to afford or stomach what life here is becoming for much longer though.

The way I feel lately, let it get washed away. The people coming here are the same ones that shrug with indifference at every social event except the opening/closing of a starbucks. All these suburbanites trying to export the suburban mall experience to the city, cars and all, let em swim.

I speak in annoyance, of course this is a major problem. We need to match a sense of alarm with a sense of hope and can-do (one without the other leads to postmodern blah paralysis). All of human history is a record of the impossible made common place, for good and bad. So what first?

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Well, no not really. Scientists recently found 53 glaciers that have stopped shrinking! That's right, they are no longer experiencing any shrinkage at all!

It's not all good though, the reason they stopped shrinking is that they are gone, disappeared, completely melted away.

But just watch Lomborg and friends will still use this as "evidence" that global warming isn't so bad after all. That's just the way they distort the facts, so be aware, and beware!

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Do you know how many earth scientists can actually explain how the oceans even formed? Or how the oceans became salty? They can't even explain it. lol. You want to know how they explain it? They say the salt comes from erosion and runoff. Yet if you take all the salt from all the oceans, you'd have enough to cover every single square inch of land in 500 feet of salt. Yes 500 feet. So where is all this salt? Howcome I got to pay 3 bucks for a pound of salt when there that much of it? It doesn't make sense because those scientists are full of it. It is absurd, just like pangea is absurd. (Can you think of anything more absurd than a bunch of continents all grouped together, and on the other side of the earth... what? Water? Such an earth would look like a giant eyeball in space.)

The vast majority of the earths salt (along with the water) comes right out of the deep ocean vents.

Why is this important? Well you have to combine it with a few more facts. Like the fact that the off-shelf ocean floor has never been measured to be more than 200 million years old. Which means all the massive amounts of water on the earth, the vast majority of it, is fairly new, fairly recent. If you average out this expansion, it comes out to about a trillion gallons a year. That is a trillion gallons a year of new water being produced by the earth. (Along with many billions of tons of salt.) All pouring out from deep ocean fissures in gaseous form. But the earth itself is also expanding, so the land/sea ratio balances out.

The point is that with all these billions of gallons of new water arriving every day, it renders moot any effect of melting land based ice. (Sea based ice reduces sea levels when it melts.) And to top it all off, land based ice isnt melting.

The melting of mountain icecaps are however a genuine concern, and millions will suffer unimaginably when that "valve" gets shut off. But as for New York drowning? Dont count on that.

If you do the research and think with both sides of your brain, you will reach the same conclusions. The earth is growing. And mainstream science is missing some very key pieces of information necessary to make logical conclusions. It is sad and yet laughable at the same time. But it is deadly serious when bad science influences policy.

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.. . of Global Warming, I think of an incurable paedophile who just can't stop himself from wanting to have sex with children and all the while trying to convince his critics that what he *wants* to do (to innocent children) is natural!

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Once the melted glaciers have exposed previously unexposed land in Greenland you can be assured that US companies will be flocking in to explore for minerals.

Once those companies find important things like diamonds, gold and other minerals NO ONE will care at all about global warming.

In addition, every shipping company on the planet is waiting, with sweat beading on their brows, for that all important Northwest Passage to be permanently opened. Once it opens NO ONE will care about global warming.

The planet is NOT in our hands. The planet is in the hands of extremely powerful corporations that are in business to extract raw materials to generate wealth. The more people we have on the planet, the more that wealth is required to sustain the population.

Global warming is NOT going to go away. Coastlines WILL change. Mega-corps and the politicians they have purchased will FACILITATE the changes that are coming. There is far too much money to be made with the coming changes. Anyone who thinks that we have an 'opportunity' to change that is dreaming. Trillions and trillions of dollars are about to be made. There are extremely powerful people ready to make those trillions. It will not be stopped by any nation, group of nations or even a billion good-willed environmentalists. They are simply not powerful enough to thwart the will of industrialists who are already in the Halls of Power.

And, once more land is exposed in Antartica there will be a land grab there, too. Treaties be damned. After all, we're seeing the ramp up of the militarization of the Arctic as we speak.

It's all different now. Nothing will stop the changes. We haven't the will. All that will change is who will own the new world once the globe changes.

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I live about 5 blocks from the beach in So. Jersey. Seems if I can hang on for a few more yrs. I just might own beach front real estate!!

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Throughout history, humans have turned on each other. Witchhunts, McCarthism, many types of persecution often happen when societies break down. The sociological theory is that when the norms that unite us break down, we temporarily turn on a "deviant" to rally around until we can regroup. We are in tremendous breakdown right now. And we are seeing deviance scares, such as demonizing illegal immigrants and all the hysteria over obesity (it is NOT the greatest threat to humanity.) What if we could use our natural tendency to unite around a common enemy to focus on global warming instead of devouring each other. Think about all the pain and devastation that has been caused by deviance scares in times of change. What if we could put it to good use!

"Weight obsession is a social disease. If we cared more about CO2 than BMI there MIGHT still be time."

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Repeat after me 100 times, make that a million: The planet, nature, is not static, does not stay the same for ever and ever, Amen. Climate change, no matter the cause, is a constant on this planet. Climate is always changing, has always been changing, and will always continue changing. Some places will get colder, others hotter than before, then the reverse.

Whether or not CO2 or human actions are the cause of climate change is one issue that is, contrary of what some think, so far unsettled. The other issue is what to do about climate change: try to push back the forces of change or adapt?

Some people seem to think that Greenland must remain icy, New York must remain as and where it is, Florida must remain above water (else where will hurricanes land or retirees retire?), the small Pacific islands must remain habitable. This is all total nonsense. Climate changes. Get used to it. As things change, we will adapt, cities will be moved, habitations will be moved, farming will be moved, and we'll get on with life until the next major changes in climate, which may be warming or cooling.

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I live in California and the garden is a mess. Things are blooming out of season and some things won't bloom at all, due to the insane extreme changes in temperature. Last year my daughter was stopped at an intersection in a semi-rural area and a tornado touched down and took away a large evergreen tree. The good bugs don't hatch in time to wipe out the bad bugs anymore. The climate is broken and we gardeners know it.

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Wow, what a surprise. I step to the comment section only to find vociferous criticism of this article's premise, science and implications. And then defense of the same, which is then followed by more batshit criticisms. I spot a pattern.

I wrote about Brown's article today for the MorphBlog and Huffington Post, and found the same thing when I ventured to its comment section. Vociferous criticism, well-intentioned defense.

I'd like to think it's a complete coincidence, or healthy give-and-take, but I know the energy sector and its adherents a bit too well for that. Enviro articles have been infested by their trolls at a rate that is only matched by global warming itself. Don't waste your time arguing science and reason with them. They're not here for that. They're here to cause doubt for the fence-sitters and cash a paycheck. Ignore them. They won't go away, but ignore them anyway. That's my four cents.

However, Brown's thesis, and the science behind it, is too powerful to ignore.

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What will it take to stop the climate change?
People must give up their multi-thousand square foot homes, and the A/C-heating machines provide climate control for them. Those double wide refrigerators suck up a lot of wattage, along with all the kitchen gadgets with motors too.
Think of all the big screen/ high def TV's, or least to forget the multi wattage home entertainment stereo equipment most homes in the U.S. contain. The MP3-4, i-pods laptops, PC's that provide the means of communication all require that plug and wall socket supply of energy 24/7.
The electric blankets, massage chairs, whirlpool jacuzzi tubs, steamers and other commodities which consume electricity in the bedroom/bathroom are real energy suckers.
Most garages in the U.S. have more tools in them than a third world city, and to fill up an SUV once takes more energy to produce the fuel, than all the food to feed one person in the developing world for a year.
Just remember that all the developing countries have billions of people who are demanding these same things.
Alas, I resign to possess what few electrical devices I own, resort to riding a bike than driving a car, or use public transport to get to more distant destinations. I use a internet-bar computer and don't own a cell phone.
How is my life, pretty basic, but at least I'm living my environmental philosophy rather than just espousing shallow rhetoric.

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If the right wing wasn't so adamant about avoiding and getting rid of science they would recognize that the only way these areas can have more snow is to have more water in the air to condense in relatively colder air. The only way the air can hold more water is to be warmer.

So yes, there is a build up but it is warmer and wetter snow which also melts faster. Further, because it is warmer and warmer each year at some point it can't make it as snow of any kind, turning into sleet and at some point turning into just plain rain.

Normally, these are COLD deserts - less than 10-inches of precipitation in any year. The air is too cold to hold enough moisture to cause enough snow to accumulate quickly. It is also too cold to evaporate so the snow builds up in very thin layers over the thousands of years. It is very SLOW to build any depth when the climate is so cold.

Maybe you ought to take a few science courses instead of your ignorant ID crap. You mistake is thinking that cold=snow and snow=cold. That isn't the mechanism. The quantity of precipitation is directly affected by the amount of water in the air and that depends on the temperature. The colder the air the less moisture it can hold. The warmer the air the more it holds until it gets into just plain hot - and then we have HOT deserts.

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It has been a tough couple of months for the GW deniers. The arctic ice cap melting beyond anyones prediction, the Northwest Passage is now clear sailing, walruses abandoning the melting arctic ice cap, record hot temps across the US and other parts of the world, CO2 levels higher than anyone predicted, and now Greenland's glaciers melting faster than ever. But yet the deniers keep on denying. Their profound bias blinds them.

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Till they reform in their new position,
There will be a world wide flood.

We are at a pivotal time in History.
The Cor-‘pirate’ Empire has outlived its usefulness.
It’s a sham.
It must be dismantled
It will take a fight.
But, we must take back our Democracy and everything else they have stolen.
Before it's too late!
They have abused their power before and will again.
Millions of innocent lives have been lost at what a cost!
Unless we stop them now.
We need a complete decentralization of The Corporate System.
Local manufacturing, energy and food production are important parts of this change.
Invest in yourselves, your neighborhoods, energy independence and food production.
While they are robbing everybody blind do you think they're worrying about you?
Forget the Shlock Market.
Invest in yourself.
Spend your Dollars while they are still worth something!

The End of the Oil age is upon us.
We must cast off it's yoke of oppression.

When Dick The Heartless Ch-‘ainey’ dies?
So will it!

Who owns the World?
A few ruthless criminals that have taken control and privatized everything for their own benefit?
Or
Everyone else?

Fundamental to the re-
Democratization of America is a Free Vital Local Media,
Exempt from Corporate and Government control.
The Media Conglomerates will be broken up.
Local news and media production is an important part of Democratic life.
It’s a safety issue.
The power of the media must be returned to the people.
For the safety and benefit of everyone.
Billionaires-R-Us must relinquish their stranglehold on public discourse.
They have abused their power by limiting viewpoints and information.
Ever far worst they have openly used well know repetitive Hypnotic Techniques to
Brainwash the Citizenry.
They are also poisoning the people by adding dangerous nutrient less poisonous chemicals to the food supply.
Diabetes epidemic anyone?

The Dark Army must be disbanded.
While all of our local Militia is off fighting a phony War,
Who is protecting us here?
We are in deep Doo Doo!
The Change is upon us.
Will we take Destiny into our own hands?
and change it for the better?
Or
Will we bow down to Corpirate Control?

Even the Iraqis are fighting for their country.
What are we doing here?

Free ourselves again and lead by example.

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go to http://flood.firetree.net and print out two maps of your coastal town: one with 14 meters of flooding and one with 0 meters of coastal flooding. I'm showing them side by side with the first two paragraphs of this article.

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I took your suggestion "here we go again" and I did google it and it said the snowfall doesn't make up for glacier melt and that if the entire ice cover of greenland melts, the sea will rise 7 meters. This was in the very article that it talked about increased snowfall. Go back to sleep why don'tcha.

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Global Warming is a Natural cycle that occurs approximately every 200-years with the warmest cycle every 5th cycle (back in 900AD and 2000AD). There have been 30 natural cycles in the past 30 years as seen in the website http://globalweatheroscillations.com/GlobalWarming ...

Also, it is fairly common knowledge among researchers that as temperatures warm during these cycles, Arctic and Antarctic ice melts and releases carbon dioxide into the atmosphere. During a 200-year natural cycle the temperatures begin warming first, ice begins melting, water vapor (the most important greenhouse gas) increases and absorbs carbon dioxide naturally being released by the air bubbles trapped in melting ice.

Global Weather Oscillations has extensively researched these natural global warming cycles and will be releasing information on the real cause of these natural cycles (late November to December). The release will also show that global warming will be "ending" around the year 2010.

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I love the Net because in all these comment sites one can read such laughable opinions.
Someone who has never been able to have anyone listen to him/her can come on here & be ann expert or some gifted
sort of person who knows it all.
As for global warming?
Big deal.
If it's warming it's warming.
If it's not it's not.
But, what I likw a large percentahe KNOW DEFINATLY how
to correct it.
My thought is we make giant Air Condtioners & run them all the time so we can cool the climate back down.
As good an idea as I have read on here so far.
Make cars that emit less pollution is ridicilous.
If we have already wrecked the climate what good is slowing down the amount of pollutiom going to do.
Hey, now I'm a Genius as I have come up with a fool proof plan to correct the situation.
But, I still want to here more ideas ( Even though I solved problem but I didn't invent the Internet ha) as every one is more interesting than the other.
OK, one more idea. About 3 times a day take all the ice out of the refrigrator & dump it in the Ocean,Creeks & lakes.
Now if anyone disagrees let me know & I'll convince U why my theories are fool proof. ha Or maybe I may have some new plans
Typical Internet User

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The Truth.......like Beauty, is in the eye of the beholder. With all human beings having left and right brained activity, we have conflict, discussion, opposite views. We have a race of people in our country, who have been fighting terrorism, pollution, exploitation, broken treaties since 1492...our Native American people. They knew how to care for this planet. They knew right ways to burn the forests, to heal, to honor all of life. They knew about respecting the environment. They knew they were stewards of the planet, not destroyers. Rolling Thunder, Native healer, whose reservation I stayed on in 1980's, referred to the reservation as 'the good life'. Rolling Thundar traveled the world trying to teach people about giving back to the environment, replacing trees being cut down, respect Mother Earth. Any man who respects his own Mother, should treat Earth as he does her. When I read and cry of the abuse of women, the young girls in Africa, the teen prostitutes in India, the Pediophiles, it is understandable why Earth is in bad shape. No respect for the feminine principle including Earth. No pure water anywhere, plastic pieces in every fish and wildlife, floating islands of garbage in our oceans, as a great Indian Chief stated in the mid 1880's, "continue to contaminate your bed and you will one day wake up in your own waste." This has come to pass. DDT in breast milk. Miscarriages related to poisoned waters, spilloffs? E-coli in meat. Chemicals added to foods to create hungar. I think I read last that 30,000 chemicals are in our environment!
Rolling Thundar then and Natives now speak of a great cleansing that has begun. Mother Earth is sick and will repel that which makes her sick.US. A virus enters your body. your body fights to repel it. To cleanse you of the invading virus. well, this is happening now. They have in their visions, as other visionaries, very difficult times ahead and natural disasters.
Leo Tolstoy the writer, and many others including a wealthy executive, gave up their wealth, mansions, lands, three Mercedes, etc.etc. to live humble, simple lives. They found peace, happiness, and their 'God." Rolling Thundar repeatedly stated, "It is a good life here." (on the reservation.) It was. A peace, a unity, a looking out for one another, a sweetness in the men, wholesome food grown and served at every meal.
A Native American came to a series of lectures I had sponsered. He stated powerfully, clearly. His granchildren will never live their full life expectancy. A documentary stated in 25 years Life on this planet will be unsustainable. When Natives held their meetings in their Kivas their decisions were based on this fact alone, "Will this dicesion be a good thing for our people seven generations from now?" We have people running the world whose vision is from eye to wallet. Chose wisely who you vote for. It is crucial. Get rid of credit cards. Live on your income only. Cherish Life not 'things.' Get into Nature. Buy local produce. Read labels. Reject foods with added 'crap'. Love this planet and your neighbors and most of all, love yourself. So much each of us can do. It's up to us. Not the Politicians.

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Here is an excellent site:
The real inconvenient truth

This site posits that a human-caused CO2 increase (which is not contested) will cause some limited warming, but almost all we have seen is all we will get. In technical terms, the law of diminishing returns.

The alarmists are welcome to reply to my post with a link to a site which provides a scientific rebuttal. I do not expect a scientific rebuttal, only hysterical noise.

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We don't stop listening to the bullshit presented by the corporations and the governments of our so-called democratic and benevolent masters we, the people of the world, are fucked! IT IS TIME FOR TRUE REVOLUTION!

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