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The Conflicted Consumer

By Robert B. Reich, Alfred A. Knopf. Posted September 26, 2007.


The awkward truth is that most of us are two minds: As consumers and investors we want the great deals. As citizens we don't like many of the social consequences that flow from them.
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See more stories tagged with: capitalism, democracy, wal-mart, consumer

Robert Reich is professor of public policy at the Richard and Rhoda Goldman School of Public Policy at the University of California, Berkeley. He was secretary of labor in the Clinton administration.

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drew
Posted by: drew on Sep 26, 2007 2:59 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If these are the fault lines, what is the earth quake going to look like?

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Misses the point
Posted by: wushih on Sep 26, 2007 4:45 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Is this elitist? Reich is writing about extremely privileged people - investors and middle class consumers - and is ignoring that many Walmarts are located in rural areas where they are the only choice, and where there is a lot of poverty. If I am not mistaken, Walmart got its start exploiting poorer, rural areas, where there wasn't much or any competition by other department stores. By doing so, Walmart made easy pickings of whatever small businesses that were in those areas. As they gained dominance in rural areas, often becoming the only option for shopping, they branched out, eventually becoming the largest employer in the US. As they branched out, more consumer options were eliminated. My point is, consumers throughout large portions of this country simply no longer have a choice - Walmart is the only store in town.

Reich also fails to mention that many have been deceived by the public relations efforts of stores like Walmart, which has done an excellent job portraying itself as an inherently American company that is part of the American community.
It isn't a choice to shop at Walmart as much as it is a necessity or simply not thought about.

Reich also fails to discuss the resistance to Walmart. There are plenty of consumers who refuse to shop there. There are plenty of consumers who start campaigns to keep Walmart out of their communities.

The problem isn't consumer choice; it's hegemony, and right now, Walmart represents it. Walmart is a naturalized part of the capitalist economy. For many, it is not a choice, but part of an unconscious acceptance that it is perfectly natural to shop at Walmart. Reich is stuck in an elitist, Enlightenment grand narrative about free will and independent choice.

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» RE: Misses the point Posted by: ecofriendlynet
» Not a Free Market Posted by: socialpsych
» BOYCOTT! Posted by: Cathyc
» Consider the dynamic Posted by: Ignatz deFyre
» Psychological Rape Posted by: Cathyc
» RE: Misses the point Posted by: MobileSucks
» RE: Misses the point Posted by: Cathyc
» Hegemony & Monopoly Posted by: Cathyc
People need to get outside the US more
Posted by: BlackbirdHighway on Sep 26, 2007 5:03 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is interesting to observe the different attitudes of people outside the US, esp. in Europe or Canada for instance.

People there are not so much focused exclusively on money as in the US. They value main street with it's little shops, even if it is much more expensive to shop there. They also don't seek status through rich possesions as much as Americans, and leisure, lifestyle, and environmental quality issues are generally considered more important than working long hours to make lots of money.

I'm not sure if these attitudes are why they have such a strong social safety net, with strong health care, retirement, and worker protections, or if the safety net is what fosters the attitudes. Maybe they both simply go hand in hand.

When most Americans visit these places at first they are shocked that the values and attitudes are so different. But after spending some time there, you start to think that maybe Americans need to consider changes to their own attitudes.

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» Tidal Wave Posted by: suprmark
» Insular America Posted by: Cathyc
DISGUSTING
Posted by: Whitecliff on Sep 26, 2007 5:59 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Americans can now revel in the fact that the vast majority of them are COMPLETELY AND HOPELESSLY DEPENDENT on mass retail to meet nearly all of their daily needs. So you think that you are an 'independent' and 'capitalist' American beholden to no one? Uh, I think not.

Do some research and you will find that even the goddamned fascists of the 1920s-30s-40s were EXTREMELY protective of local/regional economies and their native industries, bucking the trend of Soviet style globalization/centralization that was beginning to occur at that time.

So yes, while we Americans continue to feed and feed and feed at the disgusting trough of 'globalization' local economies continue to be wiped out and America's citizens are made more and more HOPELESSLY AND UTTERLY DEPENDENT on international corporations run by money hungry CEOs and number-crunching computers to meet their daily survival needs. This is no longer CAPITALISM because there is no longer any possible competition except at the most minor of levels -- we are living under some freakish form of international crony billionairism with a bizarre resemblance to an extreme form of Soviet-style centralization...only in this scheme THE WORKERS obviously don't own the means of production (nowadays it's actually become the "means of importation"), it is owned by these international billionaire capitalists that aren't really based in any single location.

Far from being independent, Americans are becoming more DEPENDENT with each passing day. Unless some rather drastic measures are taken rather soon and local economies can be partially restored, we will continue to fade in to this abyss of centralization, globalization, and SLAVERY.

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» RE: DISGUSTING Posted by: RandomThoughts
» How right you are! Posted by: ecofriendlynet
» Localism -- Hope for the Future Posted by: Whitecliff
» amen Posted by: Iconoclast421
» RE: DISGUSTING Posted by: maideninusa
"And, flowers grew out of my arse..."
Posted by: peacelf on Sep 26, 2007 6:00 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Those of us who watch the economy and social problems know that Reich is either naive or pumping optimism into a market that is dependent on human moods to function well, according to Alan Greenspan. Or, worse, he thinks we're ignorant enough to believe this here and now romantic tale of how great lower wages and lower prices are for consumers. I hate to be the barer of bad news.

Which came first lower prices or lower wages?

I believe our economy is being purposefully reset to maximize profits. The consumer/worker has little to do with the transformation, except in how their wages can be slashed by smiley faced icons in order to achieve low, low costs and savings for producers/employers.

The passage of NAFTA, CAFTA and the opening what is called "free trade" internationally has been instrumental in forcing the new economy down our throats. Free trade has neutered unions and forced workers to seek bargains in the interest of maintaining a lifestyle that is commensurate with their falling wages. We had no choice in the matter.

Big ticket items of lasting value rise at rates higher than inflation. Besides house prices rising, Reich failed to mention the rising costs of higher education, so that this next generation will not be able to afford college or they will be up to their necks in student loans, thus making them indentured servants to student loan companies and employers they may not like.

Moreover, workers are more likely to spend their hard earned dollars on health care costs that are rising faster than Viagra sales. And, our current crop of presidential candidates' solution is to offer us more deregulated health insurance. Lower prices at Wal Mart do little to compensate workers for lower wages and big ticket costs.

Transportation costs are growing exponentially, and political leaders refuse to demand higher CAFE standards from automakers or improve public transportation. And, alternative energy is no where in the political discussion.

The growing gap between the rich and working people of america is nothing to lovingly wax poetic. This is not about microwave ovens and color TV's; it's about the disproportionate distribution of wealth and power, the weakening of our democracy and the earth destroying nihilism inherent in all of these radical economic changes that benefit the few.

Peace

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» Higher education? Posted by: Cathyc
» RE: Higher education? Posted by: peacelf
Walmart an EEEEvil entity?
Posted by: morningstar1972 on Sep 26, 2007 6:02 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
10$ is pretty good, considering I graduated from a trade school in Automotive, and the starting pay in the field is about 6.75 an hour as a lube tech, no benefits.
I gave up that field, after spending damn near 20,000$ on school.
There's a middle class? how do I apply?
If you want to be REALISTIC try checking out the help wanted section of your local newspaper.
very few jobs have a salary attached unless you have gone to school in that specific field.
then, if you are lucky, you are middle class, selling oil or insurance or something ridiculous.
I wish people would just STOP BASHING WALMART as the cause to all their woes.
who cares if a Walmart employee bagman gets a pension or not.
you won't see it in your local grocery store either.
The audacity!
90% of my income is spent at Walmart! that is all I can afford!
make a big deal about wages, and I can't buy groceries or clothing for my family. so, this is fair?
do I care if "they" have benefits and a higher wage, when I do not? hell no!!!!
And, this is the common sense I see lacking. When I am one day driving around in my new lexus, I seriously doubt I will be shopping at Walmart, preferring a nicer place with better quality merchandise.
that is, if it ever happens.
furthermore, if Walmart ever becomes one of those "trendy stores" selling nicer things at higher prices, and I am in the same predicatament, I doubt I will shop at Walmart. For now, they are affordable, and have some great basic shirts on sale for about 3$ on sale.
since I make a whole whopping $6.75 an hour, at least half an hours worth of work will goto a new t-shirt, and not to the competitions 11$ shirt for the same thing.
that is just good shopping sense.

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» Generalizations R Us? Posted by: hagwind
» RE: Walmart IS an EEEEvil entity! Posted by: quitecontrary
» RE: Walmart an EEEEvil entity? Posted by: JoshuaLudd
» Why should poor people care? Posted by: suprmark
» Dude, ... Posted by: bobbyw
The Big Lie
Posted by: VannaLaRoche on Sep 26, 2007 6:09 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Low Prices--Always"

Wal-Mart's prices aren't the lowest, period. You might save on one item, but you can pay up to thirty percent more for the same item than at places like Save A Lot, Walgreen's, Dollar General, Big Lots, Target, etc. Discount grocery stores are usually much cheaper than Wal-Mart. Health-and-beauty, office supplies, groceries, cleaning stuff--it's all at or above prices you see elsewhere. If it is cheaper, it's a matter of a few pennies.

I'm continually astounded that people still say, "You can probably get it really cheap at Wal-Mart" when it demonstrably isn't so.

You can get a printed t-shirt that will fall apart next season for only $12. Rejoice.

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» I wonder about this too Posted by: defrag
» RE: The Big Lie Posted by: rk_tech68fl
So how do we value what doesn't come with a price tag?
Posted by: hagwind on Sep 26, 2007 6:09 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Boy, is it a relief to see it laid out like this! In the early 1980s I worked for a small independent bookstore. We carried or could get just about anything in or remotely related to our specialty. The small staff could make knowledgeable recommendations about books, records, and what was happening around the city. Anyone could post notices on the bulletin board or in the housing and job notebooks. At this time chain bookstores were starting and growing (growing, growing . . .). A big chain started in our city, advertising "If you paid full price, you didn't buy it at XYZ Books." Pretty soon our regular customers were buying most new books in our specialty from the chain -- but coming to us for the mid-list books, the independent-press books, the university-press books, and the short-discount books that the chain wouldn't touch. How to explain the problem to the customers, and the community at large? We tried, over and over: "It's sales of the high-turnover books that make it possible to carry all these books that sell two or three copies a year, and to special-order single copies without charging for the service." Yadda yadda yadda. On the whole, our customers were well educated and politically savvy -- often politically active as well. Most grasped the principles, and could have afforded to pay three bucks more for a new best-seller, but they still made a beeline for the bargains at XYZ Books. (A few even thought we were fleecing them because we couldn't discount the way the heavily capitalized chain did.)

That experience woke me up to what I still believe is the fundamental problem with capitalism as practiced in this country: it only values things that can be measured in dollars and cents. Intellectually our customers valued the customer service and community resource our store provided, but since it didn't come with a price tag they had no easy way to measure it against the three bucks they were saving at XYZ, where the clerks knew little about the books they were selling. Over the years I've seen plenty of "you don't know what you've got till it's gone": towns and cities that cut deals with big retailers, seeing only Jobs! Lower taxes! Cheaper goods!, and realize belatedly that the neighborhood has been gutted, the jobs are menial, and the traffic is out of control. Yeah, the PC I bought in 1985 (the one with the humongous 10MB hard drive [g]) cost almost three times more than the one I bought last fall, but it also came with excellent documentation and the tech support was awesome. These days, if you can't find your own answers, you're probably shelling out a fair amount of money for how-to books and computer consultants.

This excerpt from Robert Reich's book doesn't address what may be the most important issue, though I'm sure his book does: What happens to democratic institutions when we only know how to value things that come with a price tag attached? A glance at the headlines should give you an idea. Political corruption is nothing new, of course, but it seems to me that influence peddling and outright bribery escalates when the free-marketeers are riding high -- and why not? It's the good ol' market at work. Why shouldn't votes and public offices go to the highest bidder? And why shouldn't a conscientious company invest big bucks to ensure that an important vote goes its way?

The fix lies in regulating the market in such a way that it values the intangibles. It can be done if there's a will to do it. The question is "Do we love our bargains more than we love democracy or community or justice?" It's not really a new question. Most of us who know the story think Esau was short-sighted (literally) when he traded his birthright for a mess of pottage. What would it take to convince us that we're doing the same damn thing?

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» We know the price Posted by: orwellwasn'tdreaming
SO EASY TO DEFEND EVIL...
Posted by: Roverton on Sep 26, 2007 6:53 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...when WE are strapped for cash. It's how they keep going, when we know what they're doing is wrong.

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Race to the Bottom
Posted by: antiapathy on Sep 26, 2007 7:15 AM   
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I think the walmart-as-a-steamroller analogy is quite apt. The steamroller rolls on, flattening prices, squashing wages, squeezing jobs out of the country, and bulldozing mainstreet. Who's driving the steamroller? It's not H. Lee Scott, it's the consumers and investors. Consumers feel squeezed because their wages are dropping. They have "no choice" but to shop where they can get the best deals. They might realize that by shopping at sprawl-mart instead of down town they are driving their own wages down, but do they care? Investors, on the other hand, pretty much know what they are doing to workers. But that's just a part of capitalism. If you don't like it, move to Cuba, comrade.

We're in a race to the bottom. As real wages decline and prices drop, where are we headed? When everything we consume is made by sweatshop slaves or robots in southeast asia, how will we make money? Will we all work for wal-mart or micky D? The real questions is, will American consumers and investors awake from their apathetic slumber in time to turn the ship around? Why is this country full of selfish zombies who are incapable of comprehending the consequences of their choices?

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» RE: Race to the Bottom Posted by: Sushi
» yeah, it's hard Posted by: Coleman
» you're damn right it's hard Posted by: hagwind
Loss of this Loss
Posted by: pdxstudent on Sep 26, 2007 7:21 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It sounds, then, like many are in a relatively good position to enact social change. What do you have to lose, but your $6.75/hour job* and the meager, bottom-of-the-barrel life that it ostensibly supports? I would like people to argue for why this kind of life is worth living, and if it is not why they're not doing something about it.

*One commentator above makes the excellent point that Wal-Mart's tactics are not unique to it. Adding to that from still another comment, all the OTHER low-low price sellers are able to do what they do for more or less the same reasons as Wal-Mart. This extends to every facet of the market.

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MAYBE IT'S TIME TO LOOK AT OURSELVES
Posted by: VZEQICVA on Sep 26, 2007 7:24 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There is no aspect of our lives that doesn't lead to "health care costs". It's the reason for everything gone wrong no matter what it is. Granted the costs are out of control. But shouldn't we be looking at other reasons why we are losing ground everyday. Where do people get hundreds of dollars then wait in line for a video game? Lives are filled with expenses that are self infilicted. I don't think we should all be monks, just a little more realistic. Walmart still stinks! ANNA

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MAYBE IT'S TIME TO LOOK AT OURSELVES
Posted by: VZEQICVA on Sep 26, 2007 7:24 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There is no aspect of our lives that doesn't lead to "health care costs". It's the reason for everything gone wrong no matter what it is. Granted the costs are out of control. But shouldn't we be looking at other reasons why we are losing ground everyday. Where do people get hundreds of dollars then wait in line for a video game? Lives are filled with expenses that are self infilicted. I don't think we should all be monks, just a little more realistic. Walmart still stinks! ANNA

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happiness is not about STUFF but about human connections, hanging out with friends and family
Posted by: Suzon on Sep 26, 2007 8:12 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Richard Wilkinson's The Impact of Inequality: how to make sick societies healthier informs us that in hierarchies of dominance, low social status creates violent men and depressed (and pregnant) women. It's not just Wilkinson's opinion but an irrefutable compilation of epidimiological evidence.

We can make a better society, so why don't we? Has idealism gone out of fashion? Have we sold our birthright for a jar of pickles? Universal health care impossible? Lincoln said that without vision the people perish. It's literally true.

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Reply To Localism: We Cannot Afford It!
Posted by: pdxstudent on Sep 26, 2007 8:29 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[I started this as a reply to a comment and realized its more general and broadly applicable nature and edited it to be a more general comment]

There is something of a saying, a cliche really, among capitalists and their unwitting supporters: vote with your dollar. Our dollar you say! Of course, what that means is that our "say" is proportionate to our dollar. This is the only way that Localism comes into existence in the way you lay out: just buy something different.

AS IF WE HAD A CHOICE

This, ladies and gentlemen, is what is called a forced choice. It is the fundamental, bedrock lie of Capitalism. What it purports is that we have a choice on how to spend our dollar, on who we vote on economically. For too many, though, their choice is limited to, say, Wal-Mart and its big-box entourage. Already, in the comments to this article, people are responding with hostility towards Wal-Mart-basing, as it is the only thing they can afford! The choices are ENDLESS at your ONE and ONLY Wal-Mart. The imperative is to save money for some, but to get by for most others.

We should not think as relatively affluent middle-class and up, liberal-progressives, who read Alter-Net and buy the Red Label Gap-products that send money to starving kids in Africa (for God sake!), that we are really affecting social change by changing who we buy from, because the gesture is still the same---just in a different direction. We cannot forget that relative affluence is bought only at the price of many other's subserviance to low-paying jobs and products of profoundly diminishing real-value---i.e. piece of shit stuff from China. Were those two basic conditions to be atoned for, you would see the middle-upper and upper-class crash down into the real-life awakening of making a living.

No, social change, social revolution if that's your flavour of terminology, will not happen so nicely and within the scripted bounds of the present economic order. It will not only put a frown on Mr. Money-bags. It will upset people from every level of the economic chain of being, because their whole lives are invested in its fundamental lies. These lies, no less, are not simply put over their eyes to keep them from seeing the truth, in the old false-consciousness sense, but are lies that they live in the midst of, produce and embody with their every, minute daily ways of living.

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» Remember what Marx said... Posted by: Coleman
» I RE:member what Marx said... Posted by: pdxstudent
» Bold. Posted by: Coleman
» Exactly! Posted by: pdxstudent
REICH IS CORRECT TO ASK ABOUT THE RIGHT BALANCE
Posted by: drricklippin on Sep 26, 2007 8:55 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Thanks. I admire Robert Reich a great deal. He is correct to ask about the correct balance.

To me its all cyclical.

But as a nation we are definitely consumeristic to a pathological degree.

Beyond basic needs (which I agree some of don't even have) IT'S RELATIONSHIPS AND MEANINGFUL WORK THAT COUNT (NOT THINGS). He who "dies with the most toys" is a cruel myth.

We will grow up someday and realize that before it is to late.
We are a young and immature nation. But our destiny still is greatness.

Be Well All,

Dr. Rick Lippin
http://medicalcrises.blogspot.com

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Why Socialism?
Posted by: Whitecliff on Sep 26, 2007 8:58 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Excerpts from Albert Einstein’s classic article "Why Socialism?" -- from the Monthly Review, May 1949 -- + full article found @ http://www.monthlyreview.org/598einst.htm

* But historic tradition is, so to speak, of yesterday; nowhere have we really overcome what Thorstein Veblen called "the predatory phase" of human development. … Since the real purpose of socialism is precisely to overcome and advance beyond the predatory phase of human development, economic science in its present state can throw little light on the socialist society of the future.

* Man is, at one and the same time, a solitary being and a social being. As a solitary being, he attempts to protect his own existence and that of those who are closest to him, to satisfy his personal desires, and to develop his innate abilities. As a social being, he seeks to gain the recognition and affection of his fellow human beings, to share in their pleasures, to comfort them in their sorrows, and to improve their conditions of life. … It is evident, therefore, that the dependence of the individual upon society is a fact of nature which cannot be abolished—just as in the case of ants and bees.

* I have now reached the point where I may indicate briefly what to me constitutes the essence of the crisis of our time. It concerns the relationship of the individual to society. The individual has become more conscious than ever of his dependence upon society. But he does not experience this dependence as a positive asset, as an organic tie, as a protective force, but rather as a threat to his natural rights, or even to his economic existence. … Moreover, his position in society is such that the egotistical drives of his make-up are constantly being accentuated, while his social drives, which are by nature weaker, progressively deteriorate. All human beings, whatever their position in society, are suffering from this process of deterioration. Unknowingly prisoners of their own egotism, they feel insecure, lonely, and deprived of the naive, simple, and unsophisticated enjoyment of life. Man can find meaning in life, short and perilous as it is, only through devoting himself to society.

* The economic anarchy of capitalist society as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of the evil. … Private capital tends to become concentrated in few hands, partly because of competition among the capitalists, and partly because technological development and the increasing division of labor encourage the formation of larger units of production at the expense of smaller ones. The result of these developments is an oligarchy of private capital the enormous power of which cannot be effectively checked even by a democratically organized political society.

(continued below)

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» Why Socialism? (cont.) Posted by: Whitecliff
» Just Make Sure Posted by: pdxstudent
» RE: Just Make Sure Posted by: logansafi
» RE: Just Make Sure Posted by: pdxstudent
WALFART- A big explosion of gas!
Posted by: vomeggido on Sep 26, 2007 9:11 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Does anyone remember CostCo, Bargain City and Smart & Final, ShopRite and Sam'sClub?

These entities started out well before WalMart and their Bulk Buy hook worked because they would buy the over-stock from other stores and sell it for less. It was a terrific scam and not difficult to put over on the public. WalMart got smarter and it took it many steps further.

See, you get 4 bottles of scope for the price of 3- in order to get a discount- the public became over-stocked- basically Joe and Jane average became mini-warehouses.

The public caught on and people, family, neighbors and friends would shop together, split savings and products.

The monsters quickly caught on and the vast majority of items became 2 for 1's greatly reducing the deals. The deals rapidly became smaller- but there was just enough bulk items to keep the peeps lined up at the doors.

Now these stores (actually warehouses) were located at the far end of town where land was cheaper and they needed lots of space- there was nothing nefarious in this choice until WalMart. People did not realize or take into account the gasoline, time and energy it took to drive out to WalMart and when they realized "ALL THIS" was out there- they began moving closer without thinking. The masses did not see the people traps disguised as stores. The sheeple are easily led and herded to the shepherds destination- not the sheeple's.

There is something far more sinister about all of this than finding a deal. This has much more to do with behavior modification than great discounts. People with very specific income brackets and demographics are being brought together by a motive that has little or nothing to do with retail sales. The designer outlets work the same way- lead the people out of town- then limit their choices to a few stores.

This fact escapes nearly everyone and a little research into this evil entity, its nefarious ways and much can be gained by reading the biographies of its corporate players- a deeper look back into the histories of its corporate players yields the results and information that would keep shoppers in the Mom and Pop stores forever, rendering the parking lots of these megalomaniac malls empty forever.

Sadly, most people will not- cannot or are too lazy to surf and sift out the available information so they can make an intelligent choice as to where to spend their hard earned money.

Is it any wonder why the elite think so little of the masses?

Albert Einstein said, "Religion keeps the poor from killing the rich- which is its only purpose".

Little effort into research will show that within 1 mile of every WalMart is a church, sometimes right across the street- but never more than a mile.

Is this a coincidence that occurs with every WalMart store?

I don't think so. Its another fact cleverly hidden under a pile of discount coupons.

Follow the breadcrumbs people or you may just end up in the witch's oven like Hansel & Gretel.

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More crap from the ivory tower.
Posted by: SteveO on Sep 26, 2007 9:28 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have been listening to Dr Reich's commentaries on NPR's Marketplace for a number of years. He has given me many "I want to punch the radio moments".

Dr Reich, like so many other cheerleaders of the present US economy, tells us how well we are doing, but does not mention that personal debt is at record levels and more and more hours are being spent at work just to maintain a lifestyle.

It is obvious to me that he and the other "ivory tower" academics that spout this drivel don't have to work to earn a living. For instance, Dr Reich has an extensive resume of institutes, of higher learning he has "worked" for, but he has never had to punch a clock or run a cash register or flip burgers to earn a living. He has probably never been without healthcare or for that matter "laid off" from a job because the company moved to China.

I think all economists jobs should be outsourced to India so these folks will have to get in touch with the real economy.

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Buy Nothing Day
Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Sep 26, 2007 9:58 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This article is just idiotic. Anyone who calls themselves a 'consumer' might as well call themselves 'a fattened goose'. This is one of the those issues that makes me doubt the real intentions of the Nader crowd - a magazine called "Consumer Reports?" Please.

The real magazine of the new movement for global sanity is Adbusters. I recommend that everyone reads it! For example, see http://adbusters.org/metas/eco/bnd//

November 24 & 25, every year: Participate by Not Participating!

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» Buy Nothing YEAR Posted by: bigbad
creating a culture comfortable with used items
Posted by: charleschear on Sep 26, 2007 9:58 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I believe Boston, with its large and transient college community, has one of the highest rates of exchange of used items in the U.S. It's widely acceptable, even fashionable, to sell and trade furniture between individuals. Clothes from thrift shops remain popular (though its unfortunate Urban Outfitters capitalized on the idea of mass manufacturing suggestively 'thrift' items).

There certainly isn't a shortage of used items: used clothes from the U.S. is sold in developing countries around the world and (what we as Americans believe to be) totaled cars in the U.S. are sold in countries like Cambodia where they're rebuilt.

You can have great items at bargain prices as long as you aren't picky and don't feel it necessary to have brand new things.

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IT IS A HUGE MISTAKE
Posted by: Constitutionalist75 on Sep 26, 2007 10:26 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
for consumers to invest in capital corporations because they can never control their behavior which is directed by each corporate bottom line: profit at the expense of those same consumers who own a few shares of stock. Thus, they have invested in their own exploitation!

A far more secure investment is in the land for families to grow their own gardens, sew their own clothes, maintain their own housing and live in balance with Nature and at peace with each other. They won't be rich, but they'll never be jobless, homeless and starving! Observe and study the Amish.

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keeping the world safe for hypocrisy: advertising
Posted by: wleming on Sep 26, 2007 10:47 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Kapitals vision of man
is essentially greed and self interest.. period.
Advertisers marketing cigarettes to young people also market
the health care plans that hope to contol the cancer contracted
by the "consumer" who saw the same advertiser help him/her
contract the disease thru cigarette addiction.
Advertisers, marketeers, and P.R. people are not adverse to promoting split personalities and that includes of course, their own well paid persons. See the tobacco spokespersons for more on this.

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CURIOUS ABOUT THE NUMERS
Posted by: VZEQICVA on Sep 26, 2007 11:07 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There were lines of people throughout the country this week wating to buy a new video. Recently the same phenomenon over a $600 electronic gadget. I can't help but wonder what percentage of the people who made purchases, actually "had" the money. I'm not for depriving people of things or whatever makes them happy, but I do wonder who can really afford some of this stuff. Thanks, ANNA

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» RE: CURIOUS ABOUT THE NUMERS Posted by: Constitutionalist75
» RE: CURIOUS ABOUT THE NUMERS Posted by: Constitutionalist75
Finally . . . an article that places blame where it belongs - WITH YOU!!
Posted by: MAD on Sep 26, 2007 11:54 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This was truly a breath of fresh air!! BRAVO!! No whining about banks picking on the poor, innocent and unsuspecting American consumer who wanted nothing more than a house he couldn't afford or a car she didn't deserve.

Alternet rarely, if ever, has the balls to run articles that suggest WE ARE TO BLAME and not the seemingly impregnable, monolithic institutions that have sprung up around us. It's so tiresome, not to mention boring, when we are bombarded with articles that point the finger at Greenspan (as if he put a gun to your head and made you borrow), Wal-Mart (hate how they pay but love the prices don't ya?) or any number of corporations (you abhor big oil and Detroit but you drive a Toyota Tundra).

No entity or practice simply springs up out of nowhere without the American public's complicity. You've elected these idiots time and again and settle into your La-Z-Boy, mumbling under your breath when things don't go your way. You have run up extraordinary credit card debt on things you had no business buying.

You fail to act. You harp on Bush, Cheney, Gonzalez, Rumsfeld - calling them cowards, morons . . . what have you, but they're acting, albeit in an evil and malicious way, but they're doing, not talking. Republicans have managed to get a stranglehold on this country and you allowed them to do so. You let the Dems get away with their filth. You're the cowards. You have no one to blame but yourselves.

I know this article defies the official "it's was them, we're innocent" mantra that Alterneters truly get off on, but one day, you're going to have to snap out of your pity party and actually do something.

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» The thing to do Posted by: bluebirdella
» RE: The thing to do Posted by: Trazom
Imagine
Posted by: Constitutionalist75 on Sep 26, 2007 12:17 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
if all the consumers sold their company stock and invested in parcels of land to grow their own vegetables in cooperation with their neighbors!

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In the meantime, the BIGGEST CONSUMER just turned out to be Congress and WH !
Posted by: maxpayne on Sep 26, 2007 12:26 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
House Votes for New Iraq Blank Check

And not to worry, the Senate and WH will follow shortly !

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» NOT TO WORRY! Posted by: mdruss42
Apologist for Walmart?
Posted by: wireup on Sep 26, 2007 2:22 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have never walked into a Walmart in my life and have no intention of ever doing so. That Robert Reich sees no problem in acting as an apologist for one of the WORST examples of American capitalism is quite mindboggling.

Yes, Bob, we ALL love low prices. Who DOESN'T want them?But NOT at the expense of my principles. Like every other large American corporation Walmart is NO LONGER American. It is global and it doesn't give a damn where it gets its merchandise as long as it is as cheap as possible. And why is it cheap? Because the workers - whether in China or Asia - are paid virtually nothing, certainly not a living wage. Meanwhile, American jobs are being exported overseas.

It's interesting to note that Henry Ford - anti-Semite that he was - recognized that if he did not pay his workers a decent salary, they would be unable to buy his cars.

Wouldn't you thiink that today's CEOs would have at least a smidgen of the same intelligence. Who will be left to buy the products sold by cheap-o Walmart if they're not paid decently? Already, recently in the news, Walmart and (I think) Home Depot were complaining that in some towns here in America people didn't have enough money to shop in their stores.

And let us not forget how Walmart treats women employees - the sexism, gender bias.

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» RE: Apologist for Walmart? Posted by: Trazom
Speak for Yourself
Posted by: bluebirdella on Sep 26, 2007 5:56 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
because I'm not an apologist for NAFTA, CAFTA, capitalism, or Wal-Mart. I've never shopped at Wal-Mart, and I never will. I don't believe it matters if companies are "competitive" - I believe it matters if what they produce is healthy and relevant to the needs of real people. Right now, cheap products can be sold because many are too desperate financially to get them any other way. Unlike the author I believe in doing without wants, limiting myself to needs. That's the only hope of saving the planet - we can't "consume" endlessly, but these companies don't care. People living in poverty don't have the luxury of simplifying their lifestyles. The result is a new class of wage slaves who can barely keep roofs over their heads because they can't earn enough - witness Wal-Mart's generous policy of allowing workers to live in campers in their parking lots, rent free at some stores - figuring the workers will shop at the company store.

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the Second Great Depression is coming...
Posted by: eosrk on Sep 26, 2007 6:52 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
it's not a scare tatic or hearsay, just study history, then ampifly it 500 times, and it's the same, it's only taking longer to happen, and fed cuts won't stop it!

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The Usual Yarn
Posted by: bigbad on Sep 26, 2007 7:43 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In summary, cutthroat capitalism is pretty darn good for everyone, and if it isn't, it's our own fault for being a part of it.

Uh Robert...

Nobody but the fat cats get pensions anymore. Most people have almost no money in their 401ks. The rich benefit from the market in ways the rest of us can't access. The Dow is only up 30% in 7 years!

Our health care system is worse than in all those "socialist countries", we die younger and living less healthily, while paying far more.

Lower costs come from improved technology, and exploited foreign workers, not really talented capitalists. They mostly focus on how to suck every last drop of work out of us.

After all, the whole point of capitalism is for the rich (the ones with the capital) to get richer, by coercing the rest of us (the ones without capital) to hand them all the wealth we generate. We just hope they give us enough of it back to live day to day.

All that other "analysis" is bullsh*t.

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a small increase
Posted by: drblack on Sep 26, 2007 8:05 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
For just a few more cents per item a fair wage could be paid to those who make goods overseas. Also the CEOs should take a big paycut.

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BUY AMERICAN
Posted by: drblack on Sep 26, 2007 8:07 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I almost forgot....buy goods made in America. For many items buy them used and cheap at yard sales etc and you will get a product that lasts a lifetime was made in the USA and will not end up in a dump.

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» RE: BUY AMERICAN Posted by: Trazom
Government vs. Corporations
Posted by: ProgressiveManiac on Sep 27, 2007 6:24 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If you read comments in even liberal blogs you are certain to find the message of Ronald Regan. Government can't do anything right, they say. Make government so small we can drown it in the bath tub, Grover Norquist proclaimed.

The issues discussed in this article provide a good counterpoint to this tiresome chant from the right. While people will, from time to time, act against what they perceive to be their own immediate self-interest, it is probably too much to expect that people will do so on a frequent and widespread basis. Individually and on occasion, we may decide to travel a few extra miles and pay a few extra dollars to try to make a purchase from a small shop that we would like to see survive, but it is battling human nature to expect this to happen frequently enough to drive Walmart into receivership.

What is missing cannot and will not be met simply by persuading individuals to act in their long-term interests. Government must play a role.

Government can insist on minimum wages and benefits or it can ensure workers have the right to organize. Government can break up monopolies when they become oppressive to the peoples interests and they can limit the growth of hereditary dynasties through inheritance taxes.

It is the proper role of government to act as a counterweight to bloated corporate interests. It is the proper role of government to act rationally in the interests of the people at large. It is time for this government to live up to its constitutional role to promote the general Welfare.

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» RE: Government vs. Corporations Posted by: ProgressiveManiac
Screw government shopping
Posted by: vomeggido on Sep 27, 2007 6:56 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Buy less for more at mom and pop shops and learn to live on less and share more.

We have gotten fat and greedy as consumers because we were led into this. They will lead us only deeper into this bullshit.

We can only walk away by refusing their lead.

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Nicely wrapped and packaged propaganda
Posted by: Iconoclast421 on Sep 27, 2007 7:58 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is a truly fine example of a very dangerous type of propaganda. It tries to present a balanced view of consumerism, but doesnt even attempt to address the real hidden costs of it, nor the gross unsustainability of it.

Take the walmart propaganda for example. We do NOT save money at walmart. All it is is an elaborate scheme to transfer wealth from the middle class to whoever owns their stock or happens to be in upper management anywhere in their supply chain. He says Walmart has saved people $100 billion. Baloney. The use of such rediculously rigged numbers is a clear sign of propaganda. It's like when the neocons talk about the iraq war costing only a few hundred billion. Yeah well if you do the math you realize that it has costed us over 30 billion dollars for every single dollar increase in the price of a barrel of oil. So take your pick. How much did the iraq war increase the price of a barrel of oil?? 5 dollars? ching. 10 dollars? cha-ching. 20 dollars?? Do you really even want to know? Now the same applies to walmart. How much has their "new paradigm of globalization" caused the price of oil to increase? Even just 1 dollar a barrel wipes out any imagined savings. You're a fool if you think it's less than 5 dollars a barrel, currently. Nothing is local anymore. Everything is globalized. From a paper plate to a ping pong ball, it seems like everything is shipped around the world. It's costing us, bigtime, and those costs are gonna keep going up until they no longer can be ignored by phoney damage-control hacks like Reich who love to ignore the elephants in the room.

And it's not just oil either. Look how many jobs walmart alone has killed. I'm talking about good jobs. Jobs that add value to property. Jobs that create other jobs. Jobs that dont contribute toward this awful homogenization of our culture. (The value of that cannot even be calculated.) Every time a good job is killed and replaced with a "walmart job", it eats into these imagined "savings" people think they're getting at walmart. I refuse to believe that people are so selfish that they'd willfully steal money from their own neighbors. Yet that's what we're doing. That's the whole basis for this twisted form of globalization. It can only end two ways. Either we wise up and stop doing it, or we keep doing it till everyone has nothing and we end up as slaves. We're not saving any money. Those that think they're profiting from this... you're not nearly as much as you think you are. And worst of all it is totally wrecking our culture and creating a spiritual void so large that we might become so soulless as to not even care about being slaves. For what? Just to make the rich richer. That's just wonderful.

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Consumers don't have to be conflicted
Posted by: jparsons on Sep 27, 2007 2:38 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If you are really after the great deal, don't buy cheap retail, buy
good secondhand. There's plenty around, especially if you
have access to the Internet.

Support your neighbor, not your WalMart.

Even better, there's Freecycle

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fractional reserve banking parasitism
Posted by: vzn on Sep 27, 2007 7:05 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
supercapitalism== economic darwinism?
supercapitalism== crony capitalism?
supercapitalism== disaster capitalism?
supercapitalism== economic warfare?

all the gory details in this free electronic paper,
"fractional reserve banking as economic parasitism"



endorsed by two phd economists. printed in nexus
magazine, 60k world circulation. #1 top downloaded
economics paper. used by economics
teacher in australia as standard classroom material.

more info on request.


recent supporting material:



The Shock Doctrine: Naomi Klein on the Rise of Disaster Capitalism


Confessions of an Economic Hit Man: How the U.S. Uses Globalization to Cheat Poor Countries Out of Trillions


John Perkins on "The Secret History of the American Empire: Economic Hit Men, Jackals, and the Truth about Global Corruption"


Video, senator/pres candidate Dennis Kucinich at last years 2005 Monetary Reform Conference


money as debt video by Grignon

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Compete
Posted by: Joe on Sep 28, 2007 10:14 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
how about starting up a new business, advertising your progressive ways and let people decide what they choose to support. If your ideas are better people will support you. It's amazing that a company like Google can do things with a liberal bent without government imposing it.

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1, 2, 3, 4 or however many 'minds'
Posted by: talkville on Sep 29, 2007 3:57 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
but only ONE brain. Mr Reich places prominence on the 'consumer' and 'investor', to be somehow balanced with the 'citizen'. Awkward indeed! Conflict-ed indeed! But it's only been 400 years or so! Hang on, just another turn around the globe and soon all human beings will have enough to eat, a decent shelter, dignity and oh! what happiness and joy! It may be a little awkward and un-comfortable for a while, but if we can just end history and freeze it in the 18th and 19th centuries, we'll have it made! It's just around the corner, I promise! Just leave it to Papa and Mama -- we're working on it.

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