that Democrats and Republicans make deals with each other behind closed doors to further their own agendas without regard to their constituents. In fact, it's getting to the point where I think almost all politicians are scum. And they wonder why people are loosing faith in the "system".

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Stark's a member of the House Progressive Caucus.

He shows a different approach:

"I commend MoveOn for their ad and for speaking truth to power," said Stark. "Up is not down, the earth is not flat, and the surge is not working. General Petreaus betrayed his own reputation by standing with George Bush in opposition to the timely withdrawal of all of our brave men and women from Iraq. I thank MoveOn for their patriotic ad and call on Petreaus to help Bush end a war the President should have never started."

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Here are the votes of the Senators on this:
Roll Call Vote
To express the sense of the Senate that General David H. Petraeus, Commanding General, Multi-National Force-Iraq, deserves the full support of the Senate and strongly condemn personal attacks on the honor and integrity of General Petraeus and all members of the United States Armed Forces.
Every single Republican lined up as usual. Here are the Democrats who revealed their true colors by voting for this:

Feinstein (D-CA)
Baucus (D-MT)
Bayh (D-IN)
Cardin (D-MD)
Carper (D-DE)
Casey (D-PA)
Conrad (D-ND)
Dorgan (D-ND)
Johnson (D-SD)
Klobuchar (D-MN)
Kohl (D-WI)
Landrieu (D-LA)
Leahy (D-VT)
Lieberman (ID-CT)
Lincoln (D-AR)
McCaskill (D-MO)
Mikulski (D-MD)
Nelson (D-FL)
Nelson (D-NE)
Pryor (D-AR)
Salazar (D-CO)
Tester (D-MT)
Webb (D-VA)

Who is Petraeus? He's Donald Rumsfeld wearing a rubber mask. As Admiral Fallon said, he's an ass-kissing chickenshit who was given the lead job in Iraq because he was willing to say whatever Bush & Cheney wanted him to say, and their former face, Donald Rumsfeld, was so discredited that he had to be removed from his position.

""Up until this week, it was Rumsfeld's war," said retired Army Lt. Col. James Jay Carafano, referring to former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld. "Now, for better or worse, it's Dave's war."

Not true - this is Wall Street's war, and Cheney is their lieutenant and the real political power behind this. GW Bush is just a strung-out sock puppet.

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...is that our government has passed a resolution opposing speech by a group of citizens.

The add was misguided, in my opinion, because we have a military that answers to our civilian authority. That doesn't matter an iota, if people want to light their hair on fire over what a general who answers to civilian authority does or says, that is their right under our Constitution.

Congress' resolution was an assault on free speech by the people, brought to you by (most) of the same people who passed the AUMF, punting their Constitutional authority of when and under what terms to Declare War.

Under a true people's Congress, the next resolution ought to be mandatory, remedial, sixth grade civics for our representatives.

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The Dems failed the people the time they split into the 'Democrats for Nixon'. They never got it back together. They just learned how to sellout the People for the fat contributor. Not the personal campaign contributor but the folks the plug the national commitees. There's little to no limit on how much they can be given and that's the trouble.
This system should be about the people that can only give their vote,not their bank accounts. This system is supposed to be about 'We the People' not Us the wealthy warmongers.
The Declaration talks about replacing governances that fail the people. This one has,is continuing,and will continue until We the People Lead. The time is now,the place is here and the benefit would be a Peaceful World without fear of the USA kicking down the door.
Draft Jeffrey7 For Prez
www.youtube.com/RevJeffrey7

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the US is doomed! Anyone on Alternet that holds out hope that the Dems will lead them and the rest of the country to freedom from the Neocons and their war mongering way of life is blind to realiity. Let us face it, the political system is no longer working for the people. This has been a fact for a long time. It is just coming to light for those that have taken off their rose colored liberal glasses.

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This is our problem: posting comments to the choir (and here I am as guilty as anybody), We have arrived at a point beyond commenting to that of assertiveness, given that we know we cannot depend on the Dems.

But, even if any of us were inclined to assume an assertive, activist, leadership position, they now have the "legal" mechanism in place to detain us in dark places as terrorists.

Further, the Dems, in collusion with the Repubs, have rigged they system to preclude any immediate hope of a third party victory.

The problem is that our target audience (the minds that can and need to be changed) gets all its"info" from television, and our message will never arrive there unless we place it. "Betray Us" ads in the New York Times is a far cry from placing that ad on the six o'clock news.

But that's costly; we don't have "their" kind of money and besides, the corporate media would be very unlikely to run our message in this political environment anyway. What a deep, deep hole we have dug for ourselves.

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Folks, the Dems have failed us. It's time to vote them all out office next election cycle as they come up for reelection. Vote for Independents who will get this country back on course. Either that, or we have to start getting new faces who will challenge the sitting Dem fools who keep backing Bush. Cindy Sheehan proposes a challenge in her district. Enough of Nancy Pelosi and her like politicians. Write your representative TODAY and demand Impeachment procedings begin against Bush and Cheney--NOW!--or their office whose interest will be to represent and protect their people, not their elections positions.

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Who was among the cowardly who would not stand up for free speech, for pointing out that the Emperor has no clothes???
Senator BIDEN
Senator OBAMA
Senator FEINSTEIN (San Francisco)
Senator CANTWELL (Washington)

Obama and Biden just lost my consideration. Do we want a chicken shit future president who supports the Lier-in-Chief?

The drama gets more disgusting every day.

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As a member of MoveOn.org, I'd like to thank the Senate Republicans - and the Dems who voted with them - for the tens of millions of $$$ worth of free publicity and airtime they've bestowed upon us.:D

plur

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I'd call the Dems a bunch of pussies (a la Stephen Colbert) but that would be an insult to fine vaginas everywhere.

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It is very clear that our politicians will not listen to the voice of the people - only the voice of those getting rich on the Iraqi war.

Let the people speak on March 20, 2008, the anniversary of the invasion of Iraq. Have a general strike. No one goes to work. No one goes to school. Especially no one BUYS anything from any corporation or chain - especially any company that advertises on our major media.
Wear black. Turn off the television.
Creatively find ways to non-violently disrupt the ordinary day to day routines - stall your car in rush hour traffic. Have a 'heart attack' in the middle of Wall Street.
A non-violent general strike on 'Invasion day' to show ourselves and the world that we are not like the Germans of the 1930s - blindly following our criminal leaders.

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Just one Democrat running for President say, "As hard as this administration has tried, we still do have a Constitution. And in it is guaranteed the Freedom of Speech. While some of you might disagree with what MoveOn said, what they did was completely legal in our wonderfully free society.
But, just for the record, where were all of you Republicans when John Kerry was being Swift Boated? Why did none of you step forward and protest the outrageous claims they made about a true American war hero? Where were you when Karl Rove questioned Senator McCain's patriotism? No answer? Just what I thought."

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That's gotta illustrate, better than anything I could say, why no progressive, no liberal, no person of integrity ought to support Obama: he's totally immoral and unprincipled. Q.E.-fuukin-D.

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I admit that when I turned the page in the Times and saw the ad I felt a jolt. But then I watched most of the General's testimony. All due respect to a fine man, it was not his finest hour. Ten hours actually. It's a shame that it's come to this. But to take it to the Senate seems a bit much. These are the same people who decided that our military personnel serving in combat don't need additional time off between combat tours in Iraq & Afganistan. Thanks, ANNA

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Mailings from the various branches of the Democratic Party as well as Democratic candidates shower on us daily, both by snail mail and E-mail, either asking for money, or telling us what they will accomplish in making this a better country if they achieve a majority in Congress (House and Senate),

What is the point of working toward a Democratic majority if we cannot count on them to act in a responsible manner? The Move On ad was nothing more than a means of attracting attention to the fact that we had been repeatedly been lied to by this administration, that our service men have suffered for these lies, that we have destroyed a country for these lies. WE HAVE BEEN BETRAYED not only by this administration (that we know has its own agenda- and that is neither the American people, nor the people of the world. It exists for their corporations and cronies.) but also by many in the Democratic party, which has shown no awareness of what has happened to our country, especially in the light of their constant mailed assurances.

If we all know that we have been betryed by the administration, the Democratic party should know this and recognize that we have, thanks to their cooperation, lost so many rights- the right to free speech, to assemble without harrassment, to have habeus corpus and fair trials. An that we do not want to continue the destruction of the Iraqi lives, the Iraqi homeland and what is left of the Iraqi culture.

To whom can we turn if even the Democrats do not know (or care) what is happening to and in this country? They do not even provide any incentive for us to vote since it seems to do so little good.

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Democrats will only respond to the public financing of campaigns.

"War will exist until that distant day when the conscientious objector enjoys the same reputation and prestige that the warrior does today."

--John F. Kennedy

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I guess none of the democrats have balls. Ron Paul has more balls then any democrat.

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Hell, why not. At least do it in the districts where the listed signatories put their dark marks down condeming MoveOn.
The Dems have to know that if they behave like Republicans then people will vote for a real Republican not a spineless pretend Democrat who caves in to Fox News spin about hating troops.
Everyone should let the Dems know that if they keep putting up Republican lite Bush sychophants then no one will vote for them until they develop a spine.
So sorry Nancy, I will delete your next email asking for money as I dont support the war, and moreover, with each passing day you have shown that the Dems in Congress are merely there to legislate BushCo propaganda. Well done.

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kicks Senator Jim BETRAYS ALL VIRGINIANS Webb back out. I despise pathetic sociopath "conservatives" such as George Allen but sometimes I feel that it's best that we be stuck with someone we know we're up against rather than another BACKSTABBING BASTARD such as Webb who FAKED populism !!!!

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Honestly, why bother? What the hell is the difference between the idiot Democrats and the idiot Republicans? There isn't a shred of difference anymore, so why waste even one more moment on this collective bunch of idiots. As far as I can tell at this moment there is only ONE Democrat who even BEGINS to represent me and that is Dennis Kucinich.

Persoonally, if there is an election - and frankly I have my doubts there will be one - the ONLY Democrat I will vote for - at last as of now - is Kucinich. The rest of them can go back to sleep, as far as I'm concerned. Useless!

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Remember, it's just like the time the Swiftboat Veterans impugned the integrity of John McCain and then John Kerry. Remember how the Senate stood up and condemned their attacks? Remember? Oh, they didn't?

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I didnt like the ad either.

I nearly always agree heartily with Move-on's stance, but I frequently balk its choice of words and attitude. Why must the audio ads sound so snide and superior?

In this case it was the pun that did the damage, not the earnest discourse about the war’s failure. Cleverness surely counts, but insults need careful consideration beyond their cleverness potential. The press coverage definitely was not a plus for us (I’m a Move-on member.)

Kathleen

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Five years ago when the Bushbunch fired Gen. Shinsecki for giving Congress his honest opinion (as he was bound by law and duty to do) you could have heard a pin drop in Washington. Not one peep of protest emerged from Capitol Hill. Rumsfeld and his posse would brook no dissent among the flag officers. Career over and don't let the door hit you in the ass. His great crime? Predicting that the troop levels in Iraq would have to be much higher than the Rumsfeld gang planned to deploy or chaos would ensue. Now, after watching a five year parade of gutless wonders toe the company line, Patreaus is a genius for coming to the same conclusion. I personally think Gen. Patreaus is an honorable man stuck in a bad political situation and that Move On's ad was over the top, but I think Congress' high dudgeon is pure theatre. Shocked, shocked, to find gambling at Rick's and all that. What they really object to is any one thinking they have a right to express their opinion loudly enough for the people to really hear it.

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Your country's politics are so ridiculous nowadays that they'd be comical if they weren't taking so many innocent lives with them. Seriously, lift your game. Please. There are over 6 billion people out there who are sick of praying they won't be next.

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Always for those of us on the left, at least. If you're on the right, you can be as outrageous as you want and never get condemned by the Republicans.

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I am so f**king tired of the democrats spineless, worthless, pointless existence. It seems there is no party for about half the country that is fed up with grand-standing, low-brow, corporate regression that is destroying the nation.

I think, at this point, we are just totally f**ked.

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...exactly what? Courage? Morality? Justice?

AlterNet, besides being simply an excellent site, is a prominent one. It is unlikely that Democratic politicians are unaware of the sentiments expressed here, and how frequently they are lambasted by reader after reader, day after day. Yet they continue as if we are all in agreement with them.

And it's not just on AlterNet that they get hammered. Every liberal/progressive site is filled with angry responses from Democrats demanding that their elected representatives do this verrrrry unusual thing: fucking represent them!

Do they listen? No. If they did, they would end the war by cutting off funds (no Republican help necessary), impeach these shits at once, get on single-payer healthcare, and stop pushing Hillary Fucking Clinton down our throats.

When monkeys fly out of my ass.

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The donkey (jack-ass) as symbol of the Democratic party is appropriate. Corporate Democrats are little different than Republicans. The Progressive Caucas is a different (much more admirable) animal, however. I would like to see the this faction of Democrats create a new party. They have the sympathies of the majority of Democrats on most issues.

TRC

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I'm furious 25 Dems voted for the resolution too. But I agree w/ Move-On's approach which is to publicly attack the predominately pro-war party, the Republicans. I find it hard to understand how a purported "liberal" can say "I'll get back at the Dems because they have SOME conservatives by voting for the party that has ALL conservatives."

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.
The tyranny of etiquette strikes: if you want to criticize the violent deaths of around a million Iraqis caused by US (plus soon 4 000 US soldiers), be polite. Or else you're not “decent”. To be complicit in the violent death of a million ordinary people (as all US citizens in principle are) is not indecent. It’s “bad form” to refer effectfully to bad acts by US.

Toe the line – the line defined by US.

In Naomi Wolf's excellent article "Fascist America, in 10 Easy Steps", step 5 "Harass citizens’ groups" applies to this case.

Step 9 "Dissent equals treason" also fits.

For more, read Wolf's new book "The end of America: A Letter of Warning To A Young Patriot".

*

At least, General Petraeus is now forever branded with "GENERAL BETRAY US". The Senate vote reinforces that. Neat.

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A General Strike wouldn't work unless big Labor unions got behind it. And I mean Big Labor...but can you imagine the Teamsters striking? ha. Not when some of their guys are probably working as contractors driving truck in Iraq. Nope, it's the SEIU and teachers and nurses and sanitation workers, etc. etc. who should get this organized (with the help of MoveOn, CodePink, etc. etc.).

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They do it all the time. Sometimes I think they're part of a GOP cabal.

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I'm confused. I thought we lived in the United States of America, where everyone had a right to voice an opinion. But the U.S. Senate has disabused me of this belief in voting to condemn an ad placed by MoveOn.org. Well, maybe the Senate should condemn me, too, because I think that General Petraeus is a cardboard general, an administrative type who got where he is through political moves, and whose main claim to fame, before taking over the leadership of our military in Iraq was to be shot by friendly fire and to almost kill himself in a parachute jump. He's just the type who would appeal to George W. Bush: another phony who likes getting dressed up in uniform and parroting the views of his political bosses.

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It may be that many of the more conservative elements in the Democratic party don't want the support of their liberal, leftist base. And they don't necessarily want their money either.

They might be perfectly happy having their campaigns financed by defense contractors, oil companies executives, and hedge funds operators. They might be extremely eager to represent these wealthy interest groups.

And they might simply assume that their liberal base will have nowhere to go and must meekly accept whatever tiny scraps they throw them.

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According to MoveOn, they raked in $500,000 yesterday, thanks to the Dems. Now the question is, will they use it against the Dems, or what?

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...is in the mail!

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Doesn't Harry Reid control the agenda in the Senate? I can't imagine why he would feel compelled to allow this circus to come to the floor in the Senate when republicans keep filibustering every serious piece of legislation.

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....are those whom blindly believe everything BushCo. says!

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I am TIRED of the TV telling me that Kucinich and Gravel are not realistic. The TV is not good at being correct about anything at all. Why would they magically be right now?

KUCINICH/GRAVEL 08' - MAKE IT REALISTIC!
- Or continue being a victim of circumstance.

These days, if you're weak, lazy or just plain greedy - these tumultous times will claim and bury you.

Be brave, Christ's sake! Vote for the ACTUAL right person, and tell everyone why. Only morons and crooks will defy you. If you can't handle those child-minded fools, you're part of the problem, not the solution.

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Rubbish. I am the goddamn Dem base and the moveon attack on Petraeus was sheer idiocy. Are you trying to win national elections or run for mayor of Berkeley?

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In 1972, George McGovern and the left managed to get the Democratic Party positioned as anti-military in the minds of much of the public. Democrats have paid for that in national elections ever since. Trash Bush all you like. But trashing members of the military is a sure way to get your ass kicked in most every congressional district in this country.

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It is not TV that makes me think that the Kucinich campaign is a joke. It is history and arithmetic. He has run before.

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