Home
Archive
Columnists
Video
Blogs
Discuss
About
Search
Donate
Advertise
Advertisement
Advertisement
Advertisement
Advertisement
Register to Vote: Rock the Vote, powered by Working Assets Wireless
Advertisement
  • AlterNetYour turn

Support AlterNet
Do you value the information you're getting from AlterNet? Please show your support with a tax-deductible donation.


Feedback
Tell us how we're doing.

Iraq Death Toll Rivals Rwanda Genocide, Cambodian Killing Fields

By Joshua Holland, AlterNet. Posted September 17, 2007.


A new study estimates that 1.2 million Iraqis have met violent deaths since Bush and Cheney chose to invade.

Share and save this post:
Digg iconDelicious iconReddit iconFark iconYahoo! iconNewsvine! iconFacebook iconNewsTrust icon

More stories by Joshua Holland

Get AlterNet in
your mailbox!

 
Advertisement

According to a new study, 1.2 million Iraqis have met violent deaths since the 2003 invasion, the highest estimate of war-related fatalities yet. The study was done by the British polling firm ORB, which conducted face-to-face interviews with a sample of over 1,700 Iraqi adults in 15 of Iraq's 18 provinces. Two provinces -- al-Anbar and Karbala -- were too dangerous to canvas, and officials in a third, Irbil, didn't give the researchers a permit to do their work. The study's margin of error was plus-minus 2.4 percent.

Field workers asked residents how many members of their own household had been killed since the invasion. More than one in five respondents said that at least one person in their home had been murdered since March of 2003. One in three Iraqis also said that at least some neighbors "actually living on [their] street" had fled the carnage, with around half of those having left the country.

In Baghdad, almost half of those interviewed reported at least one violent death in their household.

Before the study's release, the highest estimate of Iraqi deaths had been around 650,000 in the landmark Johns Hopkins' study published in the Lancet, a highly respected and peer-reviewed British medical journal. Unlike that study, which measured the difference in deaths from all causes during the first three years of the occupation with the mortality rate that existed prior to the invasion, the ORB poll looked only at deaths due to violence.

The poll's findings are in line with the rolling estimate maintained on the Just Foreign Policy website, based on the Johns Hopkins' data, that stands at just over 1 million Iraqis killed as of this writing.

These numbers suggest that the invasion and occupation of Iraq rivals the great crimes of the last century -- the human toll exceeds the 800,000 to 900,000 believed killed in the Rwandan genocide in 1994, and is approaching the number (1.7 million) who died in Cambodia's infamous "Killing Fields" during the Khmer Rouge era of the 1970s.

While the stunning figures should play a major role in the debate over continuing the occupation, they probably won't. That's because there are three distinct versions of events in Iraq -- the bloody criminal nightmare that the "reality-based community" has to grapple with, the picture the commercial media portrays and the war that the occupation's last supporters have conjured up out of thin air. Similarly, American discourse has also developed three different levels of Iraqi casualties. There's the approximately 1 million killed according to the best epidemiological research conducted by one of the world's most prestigious scientific institutions, there's the 75,000-80,000 (based on news reports) the Washington Post and other commercial media allow, and there's the clean and antiseptic blood-free war the administration claims to have fought (recall that they dismissed the Lancet findings out of hand and yet offered no numbers of their own).

Here's the troubling thing, and one reason why opposition to the war isn't even more intense than it is: Americans were asked in an AP poll conducted earlier this year how many Iraqi civilians they thought had been killed as a result of the invasion and occupation, and the median answer they gave was 9,890. That's less than a third of the number of civilian deaths confirmed by U.N. monitors in 2006 alone.

Most of that disconnect is probably a result of American exceptionalism -- the United States is, by definition, the good guy, and good guys don't launch wars of choice that result in over a million people being massacred. Never mind that that's exactly what the data show; acknowledging as much creates intolerable cognitive dissonance for most Americans, so as a nation, we won't.


Digg!

See more stories tagged with: civilian deaths, iraq

Joshua Holland is an AlterNet staff writer.

Liked this story? Get top stories in your inbox each week from AlterNet! Sign up now »


Advertisement

 

Comments Turn comments off sitewide Give us feedback »
Comments closed.
The comments for this story have been closed. Thank you to everyone who participated.
View:
But....but....but....
Posted by: Michael Boldin on Sep 17, 2007 12:12 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"We didn't mean to kill all those innocent people. Honest!"

Really, when is enough killing going to be enough? Will these people ever have their thirst quenched for power, profits and war? Sometimes, I think not....

Throwing away the lives of people - and ignoring the reality of the massive numbers is totally repugnant to the ideals of a free society....what America is supposed to be.

Aggressive war was once punished as a war crime back at the Nuremburg trials. I also believe that this war of aggression holds some very serious moral and legal implications for all those involved.

It's time for this madness - the death and destruction - the murder of innocents - to come to an end.

Well, if you'd like, read on for more.

"Collateral Damage is Murder" - click here

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: But....but....but.... Posted by: penobscotdziekuje@yahoo.com
Ain't Gonna Happen. . .
Posted by: The Old Hippie on Sep 17, 2007 1:03 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The deaths are going to only continue to be allowed to accumulate.  The profits are too high, the corruption too entrenched, and the obviously illegal, by definition by both international and domestic laws, war of aggression , re-framed as the war on terror, (which ironically has increased terrorism worldwide, not diminished it, but hey, it is very-very profitable,) in Iraq... is not going to be stopped, not by anyone/anything short of an American in-the-streets revolt.  They’ve already proven, multiple times, that protests don't cut it.  They’ve completely, and successfully, ignored all protests no matter how large, or widespread.

But is it really too late to turn it around?  I’m sure most all of us really want that to not be the case.  But - I honestly don’t know if it’s not already too late.  The fact that the evidence of the reality of the un-hidden criminal sociopathic nature of this administration’s pro-corporate agenda of profits-over-even-life-&-nation, has been so well proven, and so in-our-faces for so long, that the denial of it is beyond any possible sane rationality.  The fact that there has been no revolt, and so far no real attempted stopping of the “allowing” by the citizenry of my nation, in the face of the overwhelming evidence of the ongoing destruction caused by the few, over the many, that I think the continued allowing, and the self-destructive denial, has become, not only a disgrace, it has maybe become pathological.  I admit it’s possibility scares the hell out of me.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Ain't Gonna Happen. . . Posted by: VZEQICVA
Methodology and numbers ring true, comparison doesn't
Posted by: brunowe on Sep 17, 2007 1:04 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Comparing the total number of Iraqis who met any sort of violent death to the death toll of the Rwanda and Cambodia genocides has an apples-and-oranges quality about it. The Rwandan genocide number and the Khmer Rouge number reflect the numbers of direct victims of a policy of genocide. The number from Iraq reflects not only US force but also inter-Iraqi violence and common crime. Although the US bears indirect responsibility for the latter two since if effected the collapse of civil order by invading, the comparison suggests that US force actually killed that many people.

Further, assuming 672,000 Iraqis killed from Coalition violence (56% of 1.2 million, drawing the 56% from the article you referenced), the number doesn't break down how many were civilians and how many were legitimate targets. Given the large percentage of civilians who die in modern war (as you pointed out) and the fact that US forces use airstrikes and recon-by-fire (essentially, firepower as a counter-insurgency strategy), I'm sure a large chunk of that was civilians.

Surely these numbers are appalling enough without a deeply flawed analogy to crimes of genocide.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» What comparison? Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: What comparison? Posted by: brunowe
» RE: What comparison? Posted by: Joshua Holland
» Genocide is different Posted by: brunowe
» RE: Genocide is different Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: What comparison? Posted by: blitzmesser
» RE: Sensational Headlines... Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: What comparison? Posted by: OhioPatriot
» You don't make your case. Posted by: brunowe
» Neocon Sickness Posted by: LeftCoastProgressive
» Semantics. Posted by: thoughtcriminal
» Non sequitur. Posted by: justaguy
» It is deliberate genocide Posted by: leafsong1
» RE: It is deliberate genocide Posted by: blitzmesser
Psychopaths are incapable of feeling another's pain
Posted by: nzo on Sep 17, 2007 1:28 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Psychopaths such as Bush, Cheyney and their arms-pusher bed-fellows are classic examples of those who are incapable of any kind of empathy of others' wounding and pain.

Do you imagine for one second that if Bush, Cheyney et al were subjected to the pain of even one child, one mother, one father who had their limbs torn off by shrapnel, that they would continue to do what they are doing?

If they actually felt this pain, this stupid war, and all wars, would end instantly. Not tomorrow, a week or year from now, but instantly!

You bet they would stop.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Sorry, this comment has been removed from the system.
All Bush's fault
Posted by: vox persona on Sep 17, 2007 1:29 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Rarely in history has one man'd decisions resulted in so much death. As we hear the numbers grow day after day, questions are raised....How many will die because of this imperial war of aggression (war of choice, not necessity)....Where will this road of constant death lead? Most who post on this site know that oil was the impetus for this misguided and unconstitutional occupation based on lies, misdirection, false flags, facts fixed around the policy, and retroactive pretexts.
Being a Christ Follower, it has always sickened me that Bush has co-opted Christianity in his rhetoric, while ignoring the teachings themselves, such as 'Those who take the sword shall perish by the sword', 'The meek shall inherit the Earth', and 'Blessed are the peacemakers'. What scares me is that our evangelical president probably believes the literal interpretations of the Book of Revelation. Here's just a few snippets from that text, especially chapters 9-11. "And the 5th Angel sounded: And I saw a star fall from heaven to Earth. And to him was given the key to the bottomless pit (Osama's caves?)...smoke arose out of the pit....then out of the smoke came locusts on the Earth (terrorist cells?)....commanded to harm only those without the seal of God (infidels?)....In those days men will seek death and will not find it (suicide murderers that realize too late that they're soul is indestructable as they stand there in spirit amongst the carnage as the dark death demons take them to their lovely new home?).....breastplates of iron (flak jackets?)....sound of their wings was like many horses running into battle....tails like scorpions....there were stings in their tails (helicopters?)....Release the four Angels who are bound at the great river Euphrates (Bagdad)....CHAPTER11: (twin towers?) two lampstands standing before the god of the earth (money is the god of the Earth...World TRADE Center)....if anyone wants to harm them, he must be killedin this manner....destroy those who destroy the Earth...."
It goes on and on, but you get the picture, Maybe Bush is trying to self-fulfill the prophecies, I don't put anything past him at this point. He destroyed Iraq and unleashed forces that may not be able to be contained again, short of another iron-fisted Saddam type. So which side in a Muslim civil war do we take? We endorse their death squads by arming them. War is good business, war profiteers are making untold billions, and the military industrial complex has every reason to keep war going forever. There's a lot of blood on a lot of peoples' hands....bad karma, man. Bush tells us we'll understand in 30 or 40 years, how convenient. He created a mess for someone else to clean up, but it is going to get a lot worse before it ever gets better. Pray it doesn't widen into a regional conflict, but then, maybe Bush is counting on it. He ripped the lid off of Pandora's Box, and even Hope is escaping.
Thanks George.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Point taken Posted by: vox persona
HAH HAH!
Posted by: TT5 on Sep 17, 2007 1:45 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Thats NOTHING compared to whats coming your way boys:)

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

This comment has been removed from the site due to non-compliance with AlterNet's community policies.
This comment has been removed from the site due to non-compliance with AlterNet's community policies.
donot blame mr.Bush
Posted by: richholland on Sep 17, 2007 3:43 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
surprise surprise;if you vote the former marxist Hilary as president nothing will change.
The dutch remember the liberation from the Nazis by the Anglosaxon and americans. Their bombing of non militairy objects caused death of 4 times the civilians bombed by the Nazi swines.
But for 40 years it was not allowed to discuss this.
During the Vietnam war the European majority of citizens supported the americans.
However since the collapse of communisme in 1989 the majority of brave citizens has the suspiccion that the RICH americans the top families need WAR to get extra money.
It is a pity that the average american citizen still believes that USA is the best place on earth.
1945 eastern europe and western europe.
American soldiers are needed
1954 northern korea and southern korea; USA is needed
1960 northern and southern Vietnam.
USA kills 1000.ooo asians and loses 58.000 young american boys.

USA cannot excist without war....USA cannot excist without cheap commidities.
The tragic is that if you donot have outside war, the rich and powerfull start inside wars;
war on pedofiles....war on smoking marihuana, war on prostitues...in fact it is simple the war on your own citizens.
And i nstead of God and the saints we have Britney Spears showing her pussy...Paris Hilton dancing around..

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Legitimate Targets
Posted by: the islander on Sep 17, 2007 5:13 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In an illegitimate war may I ask for a definition of the legitimate targets.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Legitimate Targets Posted by: brunowe
» RE: Be more specific, Brunowe Posted by: scott balogh
» The point you omit ... Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: The point you omit ... Posted by: brunowe
» RE: The point you omit ... Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: The point you omit ... Posted by: brunowe
» RE: The point you omit ... Posted by: leafsong1
» Legitimate Targets . . . no Posted by: Knowmad
» It isn't clutter Posted by: brunowe
» RE: It isn't clutter Posted by: Knowmad
» RE: It isn't clutter Posted by: brunowe
» RE: It isn't clutter Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: It isn't clutter Posted by: Knowmad
» RE: It isn't clutter Posted by: leafsong1
» Ass backwards and wrong again Posted by: leafsong1
You've Been Farked
Posted by: Tim Brown on Sep 17, 2007 5:13 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's a shame this kind of solid reporting deosn't make the mainstream news. It is a sad testament to their control over message that the right wing is able to report "success" on their own terms. So many innocents dead in order that so few can amass more oil wealth...

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

9 to 10 years to stabilize Iraq?
Posted by: warrior woman on Sep 17, 2007 5:27 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Again, no surprises here. I stumbled onto this article (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp- dyn/content/article/2007/08/25/AR2007082500991.html there's a space in the middle, characters were too long) in the Post a few weeks back. Read it and weep, 9 to 10 years to stabilize Iraq. From a blog that I follow, "--"Petraeus says he thinks it will take nine to ten years of US war in Iraq by the US to win"--that fact has to be pitched, repeatedly. It has to be reiterated in Congress, in the media, on the streets and in the country. It has to be repeated until it becomes as engraved in the minds of Americans as the fact that "The Star Spangled Banner" is the national anthem"/

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Move along, nothing to see here...
Posted by: PJAW on Sep 17, 2007 5:42 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
War has been the modus operandi of the USA since there has been a USA. You want something? (land, gold, oil, water, whatever) Take it, and if anyone gets in the way, kill them. Just because they live near or on a resource doesn't mean they "own" it. That's just chance cirumstance, "fuck 'em". "We" (Americans, and Northern Europeans before us) have a higher purpose and the rest of the people on this planet are just human detritus. If those people were of any value at all, they'd build NFL stadiums and NASCAR tracks, but they don't, which proves how stupid they are. They're obviously with "the terrorists".

Tsk tsk, I'm afraid we're seeing just the beginning of the next, huge, human generated shit storm that this planet will be challenged to survive. It's just a damned shame, cuz if we as a species would exert just a little self-control and give a just a little thought to sustainable culture, we could have a pretty nice existence here on Earth for a much longer period of time.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Post of the Year Nominee... Posted by: David V
Americans in denial
Posted by: Democritus on Sep 17, 2007 5:53 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Those who take the time to search out the facts about how many have died because of our invasion are not being told anything new. But most Americans don't want to take the time to do the research. They certainly won't hear it in the mainstream media. The reason they don't hear it is that they have been effectively brainwashed by corporate America and its proxies in the Bush Administration and in Congress. War is good for corporate America. Companies that fashion weapons and armament are thriving, and our economy is kept afloat by the war machine and by our massive borrowing. It makes it so much more convenient to make war against Muslims, too. That way we can assuage any guilt feelings we have by pretending that we're in a "clash of civilizations," and it's either us or them. It's too bad that whenever anyone states the facts about the mayhem our government has caused, such as Holland does, he is vilified by the attack dogs that don't want anything to change.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Americans in denial Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: Americans in denial Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: Americans in denial Posted by: Democritus
financial ruin
Posted by: Constitutionalist75 on Sep 17, 2007 6:11 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Super-indebted USA will be bankrupt long before Iraq is stabilized. Even now a recession is looming from over-extended credit. So, if you can't persuade Bush to pull out of Iraq, at least you can hopefully pull out of the Market before you lose your shirt.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Hanging my head in tearful shame.
Posted by: SatanicJamboree on Sep 17, 2007 6:51 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Mass murder...genocide--there's no other way to describe this...can we PLEASE just stop the fucking killing?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

What about crazy?
Posted by: Knowmad on Sep 17, 2007 7:22 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A well researched and written piece Josh, as usual. The only quibble I would have is the following:

"Everyone agrees that the U.S. soldier is the best-trained fighter on earth"

Judging by friendly fire cases and innocents impacted by U.S. soldiers, I'm not sure you'd get total, or even widespread agreement on this, particularly if you consider psychological fitness a component of the standard of training. Being physically capable and obedient is useless if you 'lose it' and become irrational or go berserk - particularly while 'armed to the teeth' - and conduct a spontaneous rampage of retribution against the innocent, sometimes even your own compatriots and allies.

Keep it up, cheers.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: What about crazy? Posted by: SatanicJamboree
» RE: What about crazy? Posted by: Knowmad
» RE: What about crazy? Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: What about crazy? Posted by: Knowmad
» RE: What about crazy? Posted by: Joshua Holland
» Re the training Posted by: brunowe
» RE: e the training Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: e the training Posted by: leafsong1
» RE: Drivide and Rule Posted by: Ydotheyhateus
And that idiot McCain...
Posted by: SatanicJamboree on Sep 17, 2007 7:35 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...can do NOTHING but whine about how democrats haven't apologized for the "General BetrayUs" Moveon Ad...this guy is so fricking unhinged, is so far gone...when did this "hero" become a sniveling, foolish coward? To think I used to have a modicum of respect...*sigh*...we're slaughtering innocents by the trainload and he's offended because someone ridiculed the useful idiot bringing blatant lies to Congress?

You may have been a decent human being at one time, John, but you're going to hell now.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: And that idiot McCain... Posted by: VZEQICVA
As John Boehner Said...
Posted by: Indigo_Black on Sep 17, 2007 7:44 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is a small price to pay. After all, (to paraphrase) "The money must flow".

Money was and is the objective of the invasion of Iraq. It has been demonstrated many times here on AlterNet that the bottom line of this war was to enrich a small minority of people wealth beyond 99.99% of humanity.

This minute minority of the human race are sociopaths as Boehner's comments (as well as Barbara Bush's comments after Katrina) clearly demonstrate. They could not care less how many people are killed as long as the money flows

It is sad, truly sad, that no one with any power in government had the backbone to stop the country from turning into a fascist state run by robber barons of the worst sort.

I believe the United States is beyond redemption at this point.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Karma
Posted by: veive on Sep 17, 2007 8:08 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Saddam was only responsible for a few hundred thousand lives and he was hung. I wonder what Dubya's gonna get when it comes time for him to pay the piper?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

By the way, Joshua...
Posted by: SatanicJamboree on Sep 17, 2007 8:31 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...this is some of your best work. I think we all appreciate your courage, tenacity and hard work in relentlessly shedding light on what "mainstream" media would rather keep us in the dark about. Thank you.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: By the way, Joshua... Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: By the way, Joshua... Posted by: cheressemm
Joshua...
Posted by: Gisele on Sep 17, 2007 9:04 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
this article is probably one of the best you've ever written. If not the best.

If the MSM propaganda machine was remotely interested in truth, this article would be a national headline...unfortunately, the only ones to read it will be those of us who haunt Alternet's halls.

Thank you for the time and consideration of facts it would have taken to write this one.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Joshua... Posted by: VZEQICVA
» VZEQICVA, Gisele, Satanic ... Posted by: Joshua Holland
Sorry, this comment has been removed from the system.
What else did we Expect?
Posted by: jeffrey7 on Sep 17, 2007 9:45 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Of course more Iraqi's are dying since Bush & Co. invaded. That's how it's supposed to go. We invade,pretend to be friends to some,the others will start killing eachother just for associating with us.
All the violence in Iraq was accounted for before we invaded.
We knew how their people would react,sorry Dick it was'nt flowers and you knew it,and sent out the orders that would help fire up the populace. Niether Field Command nor the Command generals knew the total plan. Had they, they probably would have resigned before the campagin ever started. 9/11 was used as the 'blinders' that were put on the people,the military, and the underinformed World to keep us off balance while the slaughter went on. Since we were'nt actually doing the 'majority' of the killing,we could claim our hands to be clean of theb death and destructions.But I content,when you incite the kinds of violence that's being dumped on the people of Iraq,then you ARE guilty of ordering acts of Genocide. This crap plays out like an old 'Chicago Gangster movie', written by fools and directed by idiots.
If we're truly horrified by what's been done to the people of Iraq,for the last 16 years,then we'll nullify the Congress, Void the Executive Branch and begin educating the Military and Police that the folks that cut their working orders should be the ones they protect US FROM. As it is now,our children sent to fight and die are doing so to help create more death and destruction. If we want the insane killings of people worldwide to stop. We,or more correctly our Gov't, has to stop advancing Forign Policies that make us appear to be Satan.
The truth of Bush's 'Shock and Awe' campaign is that is meant to do that to us,the ones who watch. We can no longer just watch,we must act to change.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Let's face it; we've been bamboozled
Posted by: willymack on Sep 17, 2007 9:58 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Ever since we let the bastards get away with the 2000 "election" theft, and then again in 2004. Letting them off for those crimes opened the door to Pandora's box, and it's been one outrage after another, with a promise of more (and probably worse) to come. We can go on pretending we still live in a free country and wake up one morning to martial music on the radio & TV and bush proclaiming himself El Supremo in perpetuity, or stage a massive nationwide strike that even the greedy fatheads entrusted to look after our welfare can't ignore. The choice is ours, but we'd better do something soon, or it'll be too late.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

kpupthblsht
Posted by: grn1 on Sep 17, 2007 10:43 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This site

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

even the Great Greenspan confirmed it...
Posted by: eosrk on Sep 17, 2007 11:05 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
that it was about the OIL!!!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Iraq is just the pre-game show, killing for democracy..QED..
Posted by: TJ-stars4peace on Sep 17, 2007 11:15 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I just finished listening to Secretary of Defense Gates ramble on as to the use of the Military to spread democracy...

Repeatedly referencing our Founding Fathers and heritage and history while of course Washington and Jefferson and Franklin and Adams would all sit up in their coffins and puke their guts out if they knew the stupidity and complete disregard for all of their advice and admonitions as to both Civil Liberties, government abuses and misuse of our military we see today, were they alive..

In other words if you think this is genocide, just wait and see how many deaths are to come for the sake of spreading democracy through the use of our military..

Iraq is a horror but it's just the pre-game show..

To what's coming...

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

THanks JH for getting the ball rolling
Posted by: surfreality on Sep 17, 2007 11:16 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Iraqi death toll needs to be publicized.
It is rarely discussed. A good question for the candidates: How many Iraqi civilians are dead as a result of the invasion? The follow up: How much more secure are we as a result? And the follow, follow up: At what point does the "collateral damage" become counterproductive to American interests?

I wonder how many more people we will have to kill before our gas station is finally ready,

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Sorry, this comment has been removed from the system.
DIGG IT!
Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Sep 17, 2007 11:33 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I just checked - there are only 21 Diggs for this story, and yet there are some 70 comments, (some duplicates) - and if you're going to bother commenting on this, go to www.digg.com and get an account.

Here's a good example of a Digged piece: Caesar and Bush

Note that Petraeus is now arming Sunnis, Kurds and Shias - after giving them a little police badge, that is, so he can say he isn't 'arming the tribes'. Now that the air war is being ramped up in an effort to reduce the 'US casualties' reported in the press, the death rate among Iraqis will go even higher.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

RWANDA: what PROGRESSIVE AMERICANS NEED TO KNOW
Posted by: BlueBerry PickN on Sep 17, 2007 2:06 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
if they want to call themselves prepared for the Bushevik Propaganda Machine.

I've said it BEFORE, I'll say it AGAIN.

if you don't know what went HORRIFICALLY wrong in Rwanda...
You're in NO POSITION to argue with Busheviks or PNAC stooges that a military solution is the ONLY SOLUTION to Afghanistan & Iraq...

nations & cultures THAT AMERICANS BROKE in a petroleum hostage taking...

Don't call yourself a PROGRESSIVE or a realist unless you've the cojones to watch this PBS documentary...

"Ghosts of Rwanda": 100 days...

Toronto International Film Festival rolls out autobiographical documentary: "Shake Hands With The Devil"


Spread Love...
... but wear the Glove!



BlueBerry Pick'n
can be found @
ThisCanadian
~~~
We, two, form a Multitude ~ Ovid.
~~~
"Silent Freedom is Freedom Silenced"

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Shame on YOU America
Posted by: unity1 on Sep 17, 2007 2:33 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
1 million and rising - the death toll in Iraq will never have a 'final' count because the US will Never leave - Alan Greenspan has admitted in his new book that the war was for OIL - he laments that that truth can not be spoken - he is simply another high ranking (sic) voice to echo what most of the world new at the beginning of this illegal invasion

1 million + human beings, children, women and men, all living lives like YOU Americans now dead - so your fat arses can drive your SUVs to the liquor store !! so your pentagon can keep its military fed and pointed at the rest of the world

so many excuses as to why this number is not really that high - it all misses the point - and what about the death toll in that other illegal invasion Afghanistan? No mention of how many hundreds of thousands of innocents killed - lets get real - murdered/slaughtered in that ongoing war.

shame on all of you - this is YOUR government - showing its true colors at last, how will you spin this so that these lives become inconsequential to your day to day reality?

and what of the rest of the world - what of the institutions put in place to stop such things - what of other world leaders, and world citizens - their voices all impotent, in the face of what is rightly an enthnic cleansing - they are all quite in the face of Americas self proclaimed super power - and what of your billionaire politicians - who care little for you and less for any non american?

Some superpower - shame on all of you - shame on all of us

BTW where are the death tolls for Palestinians ? those who america denies existence to via arming its protege Israel?

You Americans have a lot to wake up to - 300 million of you and none of you can stop your government because the political will to do so is not present - instead you support with your silence the murder and ethnic cleansing of an entire nation and what of the over 4 million who have had the means to flee their homeland? what of these people

Osma is right, you are the great Satan - stupid dumbed down people who quibble over death tolls as if nothing matters but being right - shame on all of you

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Shame on YOU unity1 Posted by: Clockwise Cat
» RE: Shame on YOU unity1 Posted by: leafsong1
» RE: Shame on YOU unity1 Posted by: Clockwise Cat
» RE: Shame on YOU unity1 Posted by: leafsong1
» RE: Shame on YOU unity1 Posted by: blitzmesser
stop blaming the politicans and LOOK at yourselves
Posted by: unity1 on Sep 17, 2007 2:51 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
your all to blame - this is your government your nation and your NAMES that is the umbrella for these killing fields - you even proudly send in your children to kill and be killed - and some of you even pray to your gods for war - sickos - I am tired of you all pointing finger - your silence, your inaction has enabled this - YOU generals, YOU, soliders You parents You politicans YOU students YOU reporters YOU 'stars' YOU police who will stand and defend these murderous traitors against the wrath of your fellow citizens YOU YOU all of YOU are to blame for this shocking rising death toll all of you

YOU no more live in a democracy than anyone in the west does - this is obvious - the writing has been on the wall for such a long time - just as long as the denial

YOU are all to blame for the state of your nation you are the PEOPLE - 280 odd million of you and yet you turn out in your millions to watch sport, to watch so called stars, ordinary people who act and get paid obscene amounts of money for doing so - you turn out for money you fawn over people with money and power - you fight amongst yourselves over everything and kill each other with monotonous regularity - your history is full of the dead murdered carcasses of indigenous, your history is full of the dead nuked carcasses of the innocent Japaneses, the history of your nation is not great it is evil it is a history of covert meddling and death and now the world and you are waking up to see the truth of it at the expense of other peoples lives

shame on all of you

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Time for the Iraqis to step up to the plate
Posted by: chlamor on Sep 17, 2007 3:37 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Time for the Iraqis to step up to the plate

There is no plate
The plate is gone
The spoon is gone
The food is gone
The hand is gone
The table is gone
The neighbors are gone
The mind is gone
The roof is gone
The taste is gone
The boy is gone
The girl’s arm is gone
The tears are gone
The eyes are gone
The road is gone
The hope is gone
The seasons are gone
The memories are gone
The reasons are gone
The water is gone
The future is gone
The songs are gone
The store is gone
The school is gone
The lights are gone
The “football$” are gone
The screaming is gone
The dreams are gone
The doctor is gone
The past is gone
The urgency is gone
The cradle is gone
The oil is gone
The blood is gone
The treasure is gone
The bridge is gone
The children are gone
The future is gone
The children are gone
The future is gone
The sky is gone.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

It's genocide, period
Posted by: Clockwise Cat on Sep 17, 2007 7:26 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Enough said. And I DO have the guts to call Bush the American Pol Pot, because that's exactly what he and his cronies are: murderous despots. Abu Grahib, Guantanamo, Iraq, Afghanistan, extraditions, detentions of illegal aliens... need I go on?

WAKE THE HELL UP! WE LIVE IN A BURGEONING FASCIST REGIME!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]