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Bush and Napoleon Both Believed Their Own Propaganda About a "Greater Middle East"

By Juan Cole, Tomdispatch.com. Posted August 25, 2007.


There are times when the resonances of history are positively eerie. The parallels of Napoleon's occupation of Egypt with Bush's disaster in Iraq are enough to make you jump out of your chair.

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French Egypt and American Iraq can be considered bookends on the history of modern imperialism in the Middle East. The Bush administration's already failed version of the conquest of Iraq is, of course, on everyone's mind; while the French conquest of Egypt, now more than two centuries past, is all too little remembered, despite having been led by Napoleon Bonaparte, whose career has otherwise hardly languished in obscurity. There are many eerily familiar resonances between the two misadventures, not least among them that both began with supreme arrogance and ended as fiascoes. Above all, the leaders of both occupations employed the same basic political vocabulary and rhetorical flimflammery, invoking the spirit of liberty, security, and democracy while largely ignoring the substance of these concepts.

The French general and the American president do not much resemble one another -- except perhaps in the way the prospect of conquest in the Middle East appears to have put fire in their veins and in their unappealing tendency to believe their own propaganda (or at least to keep repeating it long after it became completely implausible). Both leaders invaded and occupied a major Arabic-speaking Muslim country; both harbored dreams of a "Greater Middle East"; both were surprised to find themselves enmeshed in long, bitter, debilitating guerrilla wars. Neither genuinely cared about grassroots democracy, but both found its symbols easy to invoke for gullible domestic publics. Substantial numbers of their new subjects quickly saw, however, that they faced occupations, not liberations.

My own work on Bonaparte's lost year in Egypt began in the mid-1990s, and I had completed about half of Napoleon's Egypt: Invading the Middle East before September 11, 2001. I had no way of knowing then that a book on such a distant, scholarly subject would prove an allegory for Bush's Iraq War. Nor did I guess that the United States would give old-style colonialism in the Middle East one last try, despite clear signs that the formerly colonized would no longer put up with such acts and had, in the years since World War II, gained the means to resist them.

The republic militant goes to war

In June of 1798, as his enormous flotilla -- 36,000 soldiers, thousands of sailors, and hundreds of scientists on 12 ships of the line -- swept inexorably toward the Egyptian coast, the young General Napoleon Bonaparte issued a grandiose communiqué to the bewildered and seasick troops he was about to march into the desert without canteens or reasonable supplies of water. He declared, "Soldiers! You are about to undertake a conquest, the effects of which on civilization and commerce are incalculable."

The prediction was as tragically inaccurate in its own way as the pronouncement George W. Bush issued some two centuries later, on May 1, 2003, also from the deck of a great ship of the line, the aircraft carrier the USS Abraham Lincoln. "Today," he said, "we have the greater power to free a nation by breaking a dangerous and aggressive regime. With new tactics and precision weapons, we can achieve military objectives without directing violence against civilians."

Both men were convinced that their invasions were announcing new epochs in human history. Of the military vassals of the Ottoman Empire who then ruled Egypt, Bonaparte predicted: "The Mameluke Beys who favor exclusively English commerce, whose extortions oppress our merchants, and who tyrannize over the unfortunate inhabitants of the Nile, a few days after our arrival will no longer exist."

Bonaparte's laundry list of grievances about them consisted of three charges. First, the beys were, in essence, enablers of France's primary enemy at that time, the British monarchy which sought to strangle the young French republic in its cradle. Second, the rulers of Egypt were damaging France's own commerce by extorting taxes and bribes from its merchants in Cairo and Alexandria. Third, the Mamluks ruled tyrannically, having never been elected, and oppressed their subjects whom Bonaparte intended to liberate.

This holy trinity of justifications for imperialism -- that the targeted state is collaborating with an enemy of the republic, is endangering the positive interests of the nation, and lacks legitimacy because its rule is despotic -- would all be trotted out over the subsequent two centuries by a succession of European and American leaders whenever they wanted to go on the attack. One implication of these familiar rhetorical turns of phrase has all along been that democracies have a license to invade any country they please, assuming it has the misfortune to have an authoritarian regime.

George W. Bush, of course, hit the same highlights in his "mission accomplished" speech, while announcing on the Abraham Lincoln that "major combat operations" in Iraq "had ended." "The liberation of Iraq," he proclaimed, "is a crucial advance in the campaign against terror. We've removed an ally of al Qaeda, and cut off a source of terrorist funding." He put Saddam Hussein's secular, Arab nationalist Baath regime and the radical Muslim terrorists of al-Qaeda under the sign of September 11th, insinuating that Iraq was allied with the primary enemy of the United States and so posed an urgent menace to its security. (In fact, captured Baath Party documents show that Saddam's fretting security forces, on hearing that Abu Musab al-Zarqawi had entered Iraq, put out an all points bulletin on him, imagining -- not entirely correctly -- that he had al-Qaeda links.) Likewise, Bush promised that Iraq's alleged "weapons of mass destruction" (which existed only in his own fevered imagination) would be tracked down, again implying that Iraq posed a threat to the interests and security of the U.S., just as Bonaparte had claimed that the Mamluks menaced France.

According to the president, Saddam's overthrown government had lacked legitimacy, while the new Iraqi government, to be established by a foreign power, would truly represent the conquered population. "We're helping to rebuild Iraq, where the dictator built palaces for himself, instead of hospitals and schools. And we will stand with the new leaders of Iraq," Bush pledged, "as they establish a government of, by, and for the Iraqi people." Bonaparte, too, established governing councils at the provincial and national level, staffing them primarily with Sunni clergymen, declaring them more representative of the Egyptian people than the beys and emirs of the slave soldiery who had formerly ruled that province of the Ottoman Empire.

Liberty as tyranny

For a democracy to conduct a brutal military occupation against another country in the name of liberty seems, on the face of it, too contradictory to elicit more than hoots of derision at the hypocrisy of it all. Yet, the militant republic, ready to launch aggressive war in the name of "democracy," is everywhere in modern history, despite the myth that democracies do not typically wage wars of aggression. Ironically, some absolutist regimes, like those of modern Iran, were remarkably peaceable, if left alone by their neighbors. In contrast, republican France invaded Belgium, Holland, Spain, Germany, Italy, and Egypt in its first decade (though it went on the offensive in part in response to Austrian and Prussian moves to invade France). The United States attacked Mexico, the Seminoles and other Native polities, Hawaii, the Spanish Empire, the Philippines, Haiti, and the Dominican Republic in just the seven-plus decades from 1845 to the eve of the U.S. entry into World War I.

Freedom and authoritarianism are nowadays taken to be stark antonyms, the provinces of heroes and monsters. Those closer to the birth of modern republics were comforted by no such moral clarity. In Danton's Death, the young Romantic playwright Georg Büchner depicted the radical French revolutionary and proponent of executing enemies of the Republic, Maximilien Robespierre, whipping up a Parisian crowd with the phrase, "The revolutionary regime is the despotism of liberty against tyranny." And nowhere has liberty proved more oppressive than when deployed against a dictatorship abroad; for, as Büchner also had that famed "incorruptible" devotee of state terror observe, "In a Republic only republicans are citizens; Royalists and foreigners are enemies."

That sunlit May afternoon on the USS Abraham Lincoln, President Bush seconded Büchner's Robespierre. "Because of you," he exhorted the listening sailors of an aircraft carrier whose planes had just dropped 1.6 million pounds of ordnance on Iraq, "our nation is more secure. Because of you, the tyrant has fallen, and Iraq is free."

Security for the republic had already proved ample justification to launch a war the previous March, even though Iraq was a poor, weak, ramshackle Third World country, debilitated by a decade of sanctions imposed by the United Nations and the United States, without so much as potable drinking water or an air force. Similarly, the Mamluks of Egypt -- despite the sky-high taxes and bribes they demanded of some French merchants -- hardly constituted a threat to French security.

The overthrow of a tyrannical regime and the liberation of an oppressed people were constant refrains in the shipboard addresses of both the general and the president, who felt that the liberated owed them a debt of gratitude. Bonaparte lamented that the beys "tyrannize over the unfortunate inhabitants of the Nile"; or, as one of his officers, Captain Horace Say, opined, "The people of Egypt were most wretched. How will they not cherish the liberty we are bringing them?" Similarly, Bush insisted, "Men and women in every culture need liberty like they need food and water and air. Everywhere that freedom arrives, humanity rejoices; and everywhere that freedom stirs, let tyrants fear."

Not surprisingly, expectations that the newly conquered would exhibit gratitude to their foreign occupiers cropped up repeatedly in the dispatches and letters of men on the spot who advocated a colonial forward policy. President Bush put this dramatically in 2007, long after matters had not proceeded as expected: "We liberated that country from a tyrant. I think the Iraqi people owe the American people a huge debt of gratitude. That's the problem here in America: They wonder whether or not there is a gratitude level that's significant enough in Iraq."

Liberty in this two-century old rhetorical tradition, moreover, was more than just a matter of rights and the rule of law. Proponents of various forms of liberal imperialism saw tyranny as a source of poverty, since arbitrary rulers could just usurp property at will and so make economic activity risky, as well as opening the public to crushing and arbitrary taxes that held back commerce. The French quartermaster Francois Bernoyer wrote of the Egyptian peasantry: "Their dwellings are adobe huts, which prosperity, the daughter of liberty, will now allow them to abandon." Bush took up the same theme on the Abraham Lincoln: "Where freedom takes hold, hatred gives way to hope. When freedom takes hold, men and women turn to the peaceful pursuit of a better life."

"Heads must roll"

In both eighteenth century Egypt and twenty-first century Iraq, the dreary reality on the ground stood as a reproach to, if not a wicked satire upon, these high-minded pronouncements. The French landed at the port of Alexandria on July 1, 1798. Two and a half weeks later, as the French army advanced along the Nile toward Cairo, a unit of Gen. Jean Reynier's division met opposition from 1,800 villagers, many armed with muskets. Sgt. Charles Francois recalled a typical scene. After scaling the village walls and "firing into those crowds," killing "about 900 men," the French confiscated the villagers' livestock -- "camels, donkeys, horses, eggs, cows, sheep" -- then "finished burning the rest of the houses, or rather the huts, so as to provide a terrible object lesson to these half-savage and barbarous people."

On July 24, Bonaparte's Army of the Orient entered Cairo and he began reorganizing his new subjects. He grandiosely established an Egyptian Institute for the advancement of science and gave thought to reforming police, courts, and law. But terror lurked behind everything he did. He wrote Gen. Jacques Menou, who commanded the garrison at the Mediterranean port of Rosetta, saying, "The Turks [Egyptians] can only be led by the greatest severity. Every day I cut off five or six heads in the streets of Cairo…. [T]o obey, for them, is to fear." (Mounting severed heads on poles for viewing by terrified passers-by was another method the French used in Egypt…)

That August, the Delta city of Mansura rose up against a small French garrison of about 120 men, chasing them into the countryside, tracking the blue coats down, and methodically killing all but two of them. In early September, the Delta village of Sonbat, inhabited in part by Bedouin of the western Dirn tribe, also rose up against the Europeans. Bonaparte instructed one of his generals, "Burn that village! Make a terrifying example of it." After the French army had indeed crushed the rebellious peasants and chased away the Bedouin, Gen. Jean-Antoine Verdier reported back to Bonaparte with regard to Sonbat, "You ordered me to destroy this lair. Very well, it no longer exists."

The most dangerous uprisings confronting the French were, however, in Cairo. In October, much of the city mobilized to attack the more than 20,000 French troops occupying the capital. The revolt was especially fierce in the al-Husayn district, where the ancient al-Azhar madrassa (or seminary) trained 14,000 students, where the city's most sacred mosque stood, and where wealth was concentrated in the merchants and guilds of the Khan al-Khalili bazaar. At the same time, the peasants and Bedouin of the countryside around Cairo rose in rebellion, attacking the small garrisons that had been deployed to pacify them.

Bonaparte put down this Egyptian "revolution" with the utmost brutality, subjecting urban crowds to artillery barrages. He may have had as many rebels executed in the aftermath as were killed in the fighting. In the countryside, his officers' launched concerted campaigns to decimate insurgent villages. At one point, the French are said to have brought 900 heads of slain insurgents to Cairo in bags and ostentatiously dumped them out before a crowd in one of that city's major squares to instill Cairenes with terror. (Two centuries later, the American public would come to associate decapitations by Muslim terrorists in Iraq with the ultimate in barbarism, but even then hundreds such beheadings were not carried out at once.)

The American deployment of terror against the Iraqi population has, of course, dwarfed anything the French accomplished in Egypt by orders of magnitude. After four mercenaries, one a South African, were killed in Falluja in March of 2004 and their bodies desecrated, President Bush is alleged to have said "heads must roll" in retribution.

An initial attack on the city faltered when much of the Iraqi government threatened to resign and it was clear major civilian casualties would result. The crushing of the city was, however, simply put off until after the American presidential election in November. When the assault, involving air power and artillery, came, it was devastating, damaging two-thirds of the city's buildings and turning much of its population into refugees. (As a result, thousands of Fallujans still live in the desert in tent villages with no access to clean water.)

Bush must have been satisfied. Heads had rolled. More often, faced with opposition, the U.S. Air Force simply bombed already-occupied cities, a technology Bonaparte (mercifully) lacked. The strategy of ruling by terror and swift, draconian punishment for acts of resistance was, however, the same in both cases.

The British sank much of the French fleet on August 1, 1798, marooning Bonaparte and his troops in their newly conquered land. In the spring of 1799, the French army tried -- and failed -- to break out through Syria; after which Bonaparte himself chose the better part of valor. He slipped out of Egypt late that summer, returning to France. There, he would swiftly stage a coup and come to power as First Consul, giving him the opportunity to hone his practice of bringing freedom to other countries -- this time in Europe. By 1801, joint British-Ottoman forces had defeated the French in Egypt, who were transported back to their country on British vessels. This first Western invasion of the Middle East in modern times had ended in serial disasters that Bonaparte would misrepresent to the French public as a series of glorious triumphs.

Ending the era of liberal imperialism

Between 1801 and 2003 stretched endless decades in which colonialism proved a plausible strategy for European powers in the Middle East, including the French enterprise in Algeria (1830-1962) and the British veiled protectorate over Egypt (1882-1922). In these years, European militaries and their weaponry were so advanced, and the means of resistance to which Arab peasants had access so limited, that colonial governments could be imposed.

That imperial moment passed with celerity after World War II, in part because the masses of the Third World joined political parties, learned to read, and -- with how-to-do-it examples all around them -- began to mount political resistance to foreign occupations of every sort. While the twenty-first century American arsenal has many fancy, exceedingly destructive toys in it, nothing has changed with regard to the ability of colonized peoples to network socially and, sooner or later, push any foreign occupying force out.

Bonaparte and Bush failed because both launched their operations at moments when Western military and technological superiority was not assured. While Bonaparte's army had better artillery and muskets, the Egyptians had a superb cavalry and their old muskets were serviceable enough for purposes of sniping at the enemy. They also had an ally with advanced weaponry and the desire to use it -- the British Navy.

In 2007, the high-tech U.S. military -- as had been true in Vietnam in the 1960s and 1970s, as was true for the Soviets in Afghanistan in the 1980s -- is still vulnerable to guerrilla tactics and effective low-tech weapons of resistance such as roadside bombs. Even more effective has been the guerrillas' social warfare, their success in making Iraq ungovernable through the promotion of clan and sectarian feuds, through targeted bombings and other attacks, and through sabotage of the Iraqi infrastructure.

From the time of Bonaparte to that of Bush, the use of the rhetoric of liberty versus tyranny, of uplift versus decadence, appears to have been a constant among imperialists from republics -- and has remained domestically effective in rallying support for colonial wars. The despotism (but also the weakness) of the Mamluks and of Saddam Hussein proved sirens practically calling out for Western interventions. According to the rhetoric of liberal imperialism, tyrannical regimes are always at least potentially threats to the Republic, and so can always be fruitfully overthrown in favor of rule by a Western military. After all, that military is invariably imagined as closer to liberty since it serves an elected government. (Intervention is even easier to justify if the despots can be portrayed, however implausibly, as allied with an enemy of the republic.)

For both Bush and Bonaparte, the genteel diction of liberation, rights, and prosperity served to obscure or justify a major invasion and occupation of a Middle Eastern land, involving the unleashing of slaughter and terror against its people. Military action would leave towns destroyed, families displaced, and countless dead. Given the ongoing carnage in Iraq, President Bush's boast that, with "new tactics and precision weapons, we can achieve military objectives without directing violence against civilians," now seems not just hollow but macabre. The equation of a foreign military occupation with liberty and prosperity is, in the cold light of day, no less bizarre than the promise of war with virtually no civilian casualties.

It is no accident that many of the rhetorical strategies employed by George W. Bush originated with Napoleon Bonaparte, a notorious spinmeister and confidence man. At least Bonaparte looked to the future, seeing clearly the coming breakup of the Ottoman Empire and the likelihood that European Powers would be able to colonize its provinces. Bonaparte's failure in Egypt did not forestall decades of French colonial success in Algeria and Indochina, even if that era of imperial triumph could not, in the end, be sustained in the face of the political and social awakening of the colonized. Bush's neocolonialism, on the other hand, swam against the tide of history, and its failure is all the more criminal for having been so predictable.

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Juan Cole teaches Middle Eastern and South Asian history at the University of Michigan. His most recent book, Napoleon's Egypt: Invading the Middle East (New York: Palgrave Macmillan, 2007) has just been published. He has appeared widely on television, radio and on op-ed pages as a commentator on Middle East affairs, and has a regular column at Salon.com and blogs at Informed Comment.

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Actually i agree with Mr Bush!
Posted by: TT5 on Aug 25, 2007 2:38 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Petty politics shouldn't dictate US policies in Iraq, middle-east, or around the world for that matter!

Like him, i prefer to rely on the facts on the ground;)

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Actually i agree with Mr Bush! Posted by: tim_s_eb@yahoo.com
» taste the blood of a rag-head! Posted by: Doggycuny
» dont forget Posted by: Iconoclast421
Herman Melville on Republicanism
Posted by: supercrisp on Aug 25, 2007 5:20 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Funny, last night I read Herman Melville in his novel Mardi taking the citizens of "Vivenza" (the US in his allegory) to task for their support of French Republicanism, pointing out that their own democracy was tyrannous and that it coveted and conquered people close to home. Near the end of the novel there's a wonderful Jeremiad about this. It's worth finding.

Re: TT5 -- what's it with people like this? You post something completely snarky and insulting -- suggesting that the content of this article is "petty politics" -- and then tag a little smiley face on it. Is that intended to ameliorate the insult or to salt the wound?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Bush Thinks He is Napoleon
Posted by: R.I.P. on Aug 25, 2007 5:59 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Does he sound sane to you? Rip Tragle

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Bush is gonna be surprised...
Posted by: TT5 on Aug 25, 2007 7:31 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
when he finds out the yankees aren't the only ones with "big guns"

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» RE: Bush is gonna be surprised... Posted by: BitcoDavid
» RE: Bush is gonna be surprised... Posted by: BitcoDavid
And like Bonoparte
Posted by: P. Hermes on Aug 25, 2007 8:22 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Bush, like Bonoparte, may well end up in a geographical prison. Napoleon on his island prison and Bush in his rancho prison in the wilds of the Paraguayan borderlands.

One can only hope...

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» RE: And like Bonoparte Posted by: talkville
This comment has been removed from the site due to non-compliance with AlterNet's community policies.
Napoleon sailed away... & left troops holding the BAG
Posted by: BlueBerry PickN on Aug 25, 2007 9:36 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
... he ran home, declared himself a winner...
ignored his demolished fleet & stranded Army...
&
issued Victory coinage for Egypt...

...& had the British in STITCHES laughing...

sounds familiar... ?


Spread Love... ... but wear the Glove!


BlueBerry Pick'n can be found @ ThisCanadian ~~~

We, two, form a Multitude ~ Ovid.
~~~
"Silent Freedom is Freedom Silenced"

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Bush's failure? What failure?
Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Aug 25, 2007 9:47 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Was this illegal invasion and occupation of Iraq really a failure for Bush&Co.? I certainly admire Juan Cole's extensive reporting on the real conditions in Iraq - his site is a must-read for anyone wanting to know what's actually going on - but perhaps this article underestimates the economic rationale behind essentially all warfare from Napoleon to the present day.

The one difference with Napoleon is that he was trying to wrest control of international trade from the British Empire - more specifically, the British East India Trading Company, operating under exclusive Royal Charter of the King of England. (Read the Corpwatch article on Alternet: www.alternet.org/workplace/60431/).

The difference with Bush is that Iraq is now the home of the world's last great reserves of cheap, high-quality crude. Production costs are as low as $1/ barrel in Iraq, compared to Matthew Simmon's estimates of $15-$20 a barrel in Saudi Arabia. Direct control of these oilfield by US corporations at a time when oil prices are set to jump to $100/barrel means massive, massive profits for the oil majors. Some of this might help explain ExxonMobil's record $40 billion in profits, as well as the 'recovery' of Halliburton (thanks to Cheney's $7 billion handout)

All the talk about fighting evil dictators and spreading democracy is just nonsense - and it's the same nonsense that Joseph Conrad discussed in his great work, "The Heart of Darkness" - doing 'good works' is the oldest excuse in the book for brutal colonialism. We must civilize the poor unwashed heathens - yadda, yadda, yadda.

If we include the oil issue, then perhaps the best historical analogy to the current situation is World War I - the war that began in what is indeed modern day Iraq, then known as Mesopotamia. The assassination of Archduke whats-his-name was irrelevant - what really started that war was the German effort to construct the Bagdad Railway - the Istanbul-to-Baghdad rail line that would give Germany, notorious for it's lack of oil reserves, a colonial oil outpost in the Middle East.

Neither the British nor the French nor the Russians nor their American allies wanted to see this happen. As is the case today, they claimed that the war against Germany was simply a war for freedom and democracy against the tyranny of the 'evildoers' - and yet these countries all signed secret pacts at the beginning of World War I that determined how the oil prize in the Middle East would be divvied up among the victors.

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-continued-
Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Aug 25, 2007 9:50 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is entirely similar to the current situation, in which French and Russian opposition to the British-American invasion of Iraq was quelled by promises to give them a share of the expected oil contracts.

There are a number of tools that the current imperial colonialists are using to secure access to Iraqi oil - one being Iraqi debt run up during Saddam's regime, which will only be forgiven in exchange for control of the oil. This is not enough, so in went the US and British military to secure physical control of the oilfields. The third tool is the US-sponsored terrorist operation targeting the Iraqi oil, water and electricty unions as well as the general population, which is simply designed to terrify the people into submission and also to force the puppet Parliament into signing the 'hydrocarbon law'.

The vultures are now gathering in Dubai for the big sell-off - a fact that the US corporate media refuses to even mention. See Oil majors to meet with the Iraq Government at the world's leading energy summit for Iraq

The failure of Patraeus surge, in the eyes of US corporate politicians, can be followed by anyone who looks at the history of the Iraqi Oil and Gas Summits. First it was to be held in Feb 2007 in Amman Jordan, and was then bumped back to April, then to May 28-30 2007... and now they've settled on Sept 2-4 in Dubai. No coincidence that Halliburton set up shop there, is it?

Similarly, in order to understand Cheney's efforts or threats to bomb Iran, one must look for the economic rationale. If he thought this would hurt Halliburton's interests, he would never do it. My personal guess is that he is trying to get Iran to open up their oil and gas industry to Halliburton and Exxon and Chevron - and if they do that, all will be forgiven - but if not, expect the missles to start raining down.

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» RE: -continued- Posted by: xbj
» RE: -continued- Posted by: donl51
» THE IRAQI'S OWE U.S. IN OIL Posted by: TruePatriot5
Napoleon actually fought
Posted by: emanuelegarcia on Aug 25, 2007 12:06 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
One huge difference: Bonaparte, whatever his megalomanic faults, actually risked his own life in battle numerous times and demonstrated tremendous physical courage.

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» RE: Napoleon actually fought Posted by: talkville
» RE: Napoleon actually fought Posted by: YogiBear
Bush & Cheney & Bonaparte & Hitler
Posted by: liberal is good on Aug 25, 2007 12:21 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We really need to stop talking so much about the shrub when it isn’t him running the show. It’s hard since he is the idiot on the podium and the handlers have relaxed a little because the people are well enough brainwashed to believe any asinine thing this jackass says.
But Dick is still the man in charge here. talking about George and Napoleon first is to insult Napoleon secondly what really puts my knickers in a twist is what Dick says (and Karl) and how eerily close it is to the writing of Mien Kampf.
I think the planning of this regime more closely matches what Hitler planned for Germany. Some of the methods are different to fit the times but... when you read what Hitler says in building his new world order and about propaganda and how you get people to move like a herd of stampeding cattle right over the cliff, now that is eerily familiar .

I know the psychology of it isn’t knew, but how many people are so informed of it’s methods and use it so successfully. It’s their bible if you will. Maybe in the planning stages of invading the Middle East back 20 years ago the likes of Cheney, Perle, Wolfowitz, used Bonaparte’s strategies as a basis for their war? I don’t know, but the manipulation of the public is that of the Nazi party. I speak of the planning stages. People who think about Nazis think about the result... 6 million human beings slaughtered, that was the worst yes. But to understand what is happening now you have to look at what Hitler’s plans his writings and how he got as far as he did.
Like today much of his success was dependent on the silence of the government and the masses and the world. Silence is deadly.

Similar points: if you are questioned, or criticized, you call your opponent unpatriotic (today un-American) You spy on your family and friends, You never question your leaders, jail protesters. Party before people always, and the kicker for me.... this is the first time since Hitler that any nation has used the word“Homeland” it is a word coined by Hitler in his first speech and I don’t think it’s a coincidence.

Now we add something else to the plot.... God, this idiot who thinks he is directed by God. Well George can’t face the truth in any form. He has been in denial his entire life, a weak little twit with way too much power. But if things go wrong, It’s Gods’ fault. He and Bin Laden are closer in philosophy than he and Bonaparte.
The only time Bush ever spoke truth was when he equated this invasion of the Middle East as a “Crusade” it is what he meant and still believes, and so does most of the world. It was a extraordinary moment, like time stood still.

The only comparison between Bush and Bonaparte that would make me happy
is that Bush would also land in prison. And for good measure throw in Dick, Karl and Rummy, I say the Hague. That would be a good day.

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Tyrant to Tyrant,they're about even
Posted by: jeffrey7 on Aug 25, 2007 12:35 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Bush and Ol' Nappy had the same troubles,Fat Egos!! Each sees themself as some kind of Great Liberator. Both are steeped in greed,deceit,and total disregard for their fellow countrymen. The French got smart and got rid of their 'problem Tyrant'. Will we? History says we won't. So we have to ask ourselves just what is it we're afraid of when it comes to ousting folks like Bush and Co.?
We trust pretty easy. That's part of the problem. We fall victim to slick ad campaigns too. We live at the whim and dictate of fools and madmen. Our very society is challanged by the greed of heartless minions of neocons and cold war relics. Can we stand strong enough to change the way we run our system? Have we really allowed a forced complancancy to prevade the right to a good quailty of life for all Americans?
I don't think so.
Draft Jeffrey7 for Prez

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Plan B
Posted by: ScottP on Aug 25, 2007 1:00 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
(First of all, thanks as always to Juan Cole for the rare perspective of a multilingual expert of the highest integrity.)

The neocons have often been accused of not having a Plan B to use if the Plan A of establishing another Saudi-style oil puppet regime didn't pan out.

However, they are well into Plan B, it's just that most people don't like to admit that it could actually be a plan. Here are some key parts of it:
- give lots of contracts to war profiteers (also part of Plan A)
- restrain oil production to keep Exxon profits high
- reduce Iraq oil production as punishment for threatening to trade in Euros instead of dollars
- set up Iraq to destroy itself, just as Afghanistan did in the 80s and 90s after the Soviets left and the country was flooded with arms and warlords
- don't sweat details like the dead US troops and Iraqi civilians, keep profits and punishment as the priority

Notice that Plan B (or a variation of it) is also in progress in Afghanistan, and is being planned for Iran. That would lump the 3 nations into a large swath of destruction, and the gullible would believe it was all an "accident".

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Deja vu?
Posted by: TT5 on Aug 25, 2007 5:03 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have a feeling that in the west, as in the east, wars stop, when the money to fund them runs out, wich might not be all that "far away" anymore.

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The next "president of the united states of Bush-Cheney is....
Posted by: eosrk on Aug 25, 2007 10:40 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
....Karl Rove, with scooby libby as the vice prez.
Wow.....and the way it's going, it could wind up like that.

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the difference between bush and hitler is
Posted by: eosrk on Aug 25, 2007 10:42 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
hitler, though crazy, meant what he said.
bush, on the other hand, is the town drunk.

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Dominions
Posted by: talkville on Aug 26, 2007 5:53 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It should not be forgotten that the origins of Christianity, Judaism and Islam are all from "the East". The so-called "Western Civilizations" now are heavily stamped with one of these as far as Power is concerned: Christianity. Within these a particular schism exists: the Reformation -- so now there is a "Western" bi-polarism.

Theology, and religion and "values" in general, have heavily intervened in our histories and there is now a particularly obsessive and desperate 'push' involved in our social, cultural, economic and political lives, in foreign as well as domestic policies and politics.

There are also practical and 'secular' considerations involved.

It boils down to the fact that Bush and his very many minions would like to make the "American Way of Life" a UNIVERSAL fact, by any means necessary.

We ought not 'mis-underestimate' the powerful forces at work in our present times. Slavery existed in Greece, in Rome and in "the East" for a long, long time. To this day we still are confronted with it in Society, Economy and Politics. Both Neo-conservatives and Neo-liberals ought to be confronted directly with these facts -- not only at the voting booths.

Forcing "the East" to become "the West" is nothing short of insane. This is where we are.

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It's not Bush's war; it's our war.
Posted by: Sojourner on Aug 26, 2007 8:51 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How we got into it, the lies that were told, and parallels between an ambitious Napoleon and an ambitious Bush are for historians to argue about.

How do we get out now is the problem. When I hear a John Warner calling us to begin withdrawal no later than Christmas, I don't know what to think. Is he just threatening the current Iraqi government so that they will sign the oil contracts that will let westerners steal it from Iraq? Is he telling Bush that the support in the GOP has evaporated? Has he reached a personal decision, speaking for himself alone?

For anyone to credit the current Iraqi chaos as a "plan" B also leaves me wondering what to think. If there is a plan, it is not being talked about publicly. Throwing troops and money into a civil war is not a plan of any kind.

Whatever happened to the old business rule that there comes a time to cut your losses and get out? The US elected an idiot as commander in chief. So the only alternative is to elect another commander in chief and hope and pray she is not an idiot?

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uh ?
Posted by: ShoShenQ on Aug 26, 2007 9:58 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You aint comparing The Great Napoleon to Dumb-ya Bush do you ??

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Keeping Bush in check
Posted by: TT5 on Aug 26, 2007 7:52 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think we have ways to make sure that war and chaos and wont spread any furder then they've already had. And as Mr Reagan once pointed out, negotiations should always happen from a position of STRENGTH! I have a feeling we pretty soon will be ready for some REAL negotiations, assuming of course thats what the Americans want;=((?

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» Or... Posted by: TT5
ehsan saeed
Posted by: ehsan on Aug 27, 2007 12:28 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
please,for God sake, do not compare mr Bush with Napoleon.while Bush is a matter of great embarrasment and shame for the american public,for obvious reasons, Napoleon is a son of France of whom generations of French people are justifiably proud.Bush has used the american resources and might to destroy the land(Mid East) which gave birth to and was home to all the Semitic religions including Christianity.Napoleon went there to discover it for those who did not know of it or had forgotten it.Napoleon continues to be remembered for these and other creative achievements for the progress of all the societies the word over,Bush would be cursed for-ever by millions of innocent afflicted people and even his own compatriots, for mind-less and idiotic use of enormous american military power to fulfil some unknown but certainly a cruel and an evil agenda.

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Bush is no Napoleon.
Posted by: Staggo on Aug 27, 2007 4:44 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Napoleon was a genius, whose laws were progressive, devoid of religious bigotry, and were inclusive. Bush is an idiot who has a mean streak.

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We've been liberating the Middle East for centuries... will we never learn?
Posted by: fanny666 on Aug 27, 2007 11:10 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Our armies do not come into your cities and lands as conquerors or enemies, but as liberators..."
-March 8, 1917, Lt. Gen. Stanley Maude of Great Britain

We've been liberating the Middle East for centuries... will we never learn?

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Can we force Bush to renounce the American throne and....
Posted by: stina723 on Aug 27, 2007 2:13 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
sentence him to exile on a barren deserted island like Napoleon?

"After his defeat at the Battle of Leipzig in October 1813, Napoleon retreated to Paris where (due to a lack of support from his military marshals) he was forced to renounce his throne in April 1814. The European powers exiled him to the island of Elba in the Mediterranean. Within eleven months, however, Napoleon was back on the European continent at the head of a hastily-raised army intent on restoring Napoleon to the throne of France. Napoleon's defeat came in June 1815 at the Battle of Waterloo.
This time, the European powers were not going to take any chances on Napoleon's possible return. They exiled him to the island of St. Helena - a barren, wind-swept rock located in the South Atlantic Ocean."

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Bush dreams? You're dreaming. The man has never had an original thought.
Posted by: pzzp on Aug 28, 2007 8:43 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Sorry - I stopped reading after the second paragraph. Bush has no dreams, when it comes to the Middle East he's a frontman for corporate oil interests pure and simple. You insult Napoleon with the comparison.

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» Bush... read "Bushevik" or... Posted by: BlueBerry PickN
Thank you Professor Cole
Posted by: AsteroidMiner on Aug 31, 2007 11:37 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Thank you Professor Cole for a fine article. I wish we had all
read your book in time to prevent the Iraq war. How do we get
our democracy back?

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