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God’s Harvard: The New Grooming Ground of the Evangelical Movement

By Hanna Rosin, Harcourt. Posted August 23, 2007.


A small Christian school outside the nation’s capital is dispatching the next round of evangelicals to the front lines of science and politics, where they will battle for control of the nation.
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When I first began covering religion for the Washington Post, more than ten years ago, deflecting conversion attempts became a routine part of my work. Although they are unfailingly gracious, evangelicals are not so good at respecting professional boundaries. What did it matter that I was a reporter doing my job if I was headed for eternal damnation? To a population of domestic missionaries, I presented as a prime target: a friendly non-Christian who was deeply interested in learning more about their beliefs.

The first time someone tried to share the gospel with me, I naively explained that I was Jewish and born in Israel, thank you, thinking this would end the conversation. This was a big mistake. In certain parts of Christian America, admitting I was an Israeli-born Jew turned me into walking catnip. Because God's own chosen people had so conspicuously rejected Jesus, winning one over was an irresistible challenge. And the Holy Land glamour of Israel only added to the allure. Preachers told me they loved me, half an hour after we met. Godly women asked if they could take home a piece of my clothing and pray over it. A pastor's wife once confided to my husband, "You're so lucky. She looks so ... Biblical." Once, at a Waffle House in Colorado with some associates of the influential Christian activist James Dobson, a woman in our company stared at me so hard it became uncomfortable for me to eat. Finally, I looked up at her. "When I look at you, I see the blood of our Savior coursing through your veins," she said.

"Thank you," I gulped. "More maple syrup?"

Explaining that my family had been Jewish for many generations and that, by converting, I'd be breaking a deep, rich tradition only encouraged them to break out the big gun. I've heard it so many times that I can recite it by heart. Matthew 10:36: "For I have come to turn a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law -- a man's enemies will be the members of his own household. Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me is not worthy of me." This didn't stick with me, either. Clearly they had not met my mother, or any Jewish mother for that matter. The Jews haven't endured for nearly 4,000 years by giving their cubs up so easy.

Biblical verses, like turtlenecks go in and out of style. During the nineties I heard Matthew 10:36 on nearly every reporting trip. This was a paradoxical decade for evangelicals. The Christian right had become a fixture in American politics and the nation was about to elect George W. Bush, the closest thing American evangelicals have had to a pope. At the same time the Christian home-school movement was booming -- a relic of the age of separatism and retreat. Evangelicals were poised to move from the fringe to the elite power circles of American society, but they just couldn't seem to make the jump. Unless they learned to polish their act and stop telling people to renounce their mothers, they would never make it.

I first visited Patrick Henry College in September 1999, a year before the school opened its doors. The "school," that afternoon, consisted of founder Michael Farris, a Christian homeschooling activist, manning an excavator on a construction site just off a Virginia highway exit. Farris was affable, his usual manner with reporters, as he laid out the plans for his revolution. The school would enlist the purest of born-again Christians in a war to "transform America" by training them to occupy the highest offices in the land." Year after year, it would churn out future congressmen, governors, and federal judges, until they finally had the majority. "Few students will know more about the political ramifications of reinforcing homosexuality through special rights than ours," he told me. One day, he bragged, he would introduce the ultimate graduation-day speaker: "President So and So, an alumnus of Patrick Henry."

It all sounded a little far-fetched. After all, he hadn't even laid the first brick.

Then Bush ran for president as a born-again former alcoholic, and won. Suddenly Farris seemed much less delusional. In the early winter of 2005 I visited again. The central building, Founders Hall, was now an impressive Federalist structure. Inside, the walls were covered with posters for an upcoming production of Oscar Wilde's An Ideal Husband. A Whiffenpoofs-style singing group occupied the grand staircase. After talking to some kids having lunch, I concluded they were some of the most anal, competitive teenagers I had every come across. They input their daily schedules into Palm Pilots in fifteen-minute increments -- read Bible, do crunches, take shower, study for Latin quiz, write debate briefs. After Jesus Christ they bowed down to the "1600's" -- the handful of kids each year who'd gotten perfect scores on the SAT. The atmosphere was much more Harvard than Bob Jones.


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Hanna Rosin has covered religion and politics for the Washington Post. She has also written for the New Yorker, the New Republic, GQ, and the New York Times. She lives in Washington, D.C., with her husband, Slate deputy editor David Plotz, and their two children.

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Conjunctive irrelevance
Posted by: Col. Jackleg on Aug 23, 2007 12:55 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Patrick Henry College and a Jew railing about its condemnation of her heritage and the prospect of salvation for herself and family. If it wasn't for a Jew rug-peddlar that encountered a "charismatic" while en route to Damascus, the entirety of the Jesus thing would have been relegated to obscurity. Hanna can thank Paul of Tarsus for her plight and as she reads the Letters of St. Paul in the N.T. she will see that her genealogical heritage spawned evangelical Christianity, her roots in Israel and Queens notwithstanding.

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» RE: Conjunctive irrelevance Posted by: armorypk
» What? Posted by: Col. Jackleg
» RE: Conjunctive irrelevance Posted by: halweiner
» Clean up the Air Force Academy Posted by: Col. Jackleg
A Little More History
Posted by: Urstrly on Aug 23, 2007 4:26 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It might be useful to remember that most universities in this country (excluding our state schools and Columbia U) grew from Christian origins and that Princeton developed largely because it deemed Harvard and Yale insufficiently moved by the Great Awakening. Brown was Baptist. A parishioner died from a heart attack listening to the evangelist Jonathan Edwards preach his famous Sinners at the Hands of an Angry God. So evangelical Christianity has had its sway on our nation for longer than we like to admit. The old evangelicals simply excluded Jews and then reluctantly developed quotas, whereas the new ones want to convert them.

Hannah Rosin does readers a great service by relentlessly reporting on the new evangelicals' beliefs and activities, because they are most dangerous when they hide their agenda. It is terrifying how many young people carry around this sort of Jesus-is-watching-me mentality, because it is little more than internalized fear and ignorance. But Rosin should acknowledge that Israel itself has its ultraorthodox, who foment wars they are exempt from fighting and cling to a fundamentalism not unlike the Patrick Henry crowd.

I don't think secularists will ever crack fundamentalism, but I put some hope in progressives like Jim Wallis, who hear the message of Jesus in a very different way. And as my own Unitarian Universalist minister Galen Guengrich sometimes reminds us, Jesus didn't want to start a new religion, he was simply trying to be a good Jew.

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» RE: A Little More History Posted by: Badger1492
"christians" deserve their coming armageddon and the hell they would put us in
Posted by: KaptainSpiffy on Aug 23, 2007 4:35 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
'my kingdom is no part of this world'. by supporting earthly governments a christian actually mocks christ.

Lord, lord! did we not prophesy in your name? pfft! get away from me, you workers of lawlessness. ask the mountians to cover you in the day of his wrath, etc.

stupid humans. we seek to impose our will on others when christianity asks the opposite: to understand no one really sees to offend you but does so either in ignorance or by our own chosing to be offended; and to forgive and otherwise leave one another the hell alone.

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oh give me a break
Posted by: halweiner on Aug 23, 2007 4:38 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Now you're blaming her for Saul of Tarshis? Wow. I only faulted her for raising her children in Washington, DC. Now THAT's child abuse, given the current neighborhood. Up here we have drive by shootings. Down there they have drive by wars.

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» RE: oh give me a break Posted by: Domokun
We're Not in Swampwater Anymore
Posted by: catullus13 on Aug 23, 2007 5:30 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The article makes the excellent point that the latest generation of evangelicals are no longer characters from a Flannery O'Connor story. They are tech-savvy, media-aware and heavily focused on the fundamentalist political agenda. It's getting more and more like "Invasion of the Body Snatchers" -- you can only tell who's a pod person by the small details. I've met some of these young fundies and in many cases you really can't tell at first that you are dealing with a pod person.

We have a long, hard fight ahead.

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» Murderers? Posted by: openhouse
» evangel Posted by: openhouse
» RE: Murderers? Posted by: 1gma
Ewwww...wookie duh bawd, bawd peepuh, eshorsizing dey're fuhst ammendment!
Posted by: ABetterFuture on Aug 23, 2007 5:30 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Please. It's a school. Compared to the national average,

1) Are these children literate?

2) Can they do basic math, heavens forbid (HA!!! get it), algebra?

3) Do they graduate?

If so, the rest of the people not vested in teachers' unions should be borrowing from what they're doing right, and choosing what other aspects to dispense with.

Focusing on issues of religion that one takes personal exception to is a hallmark of irrelevancy in a free and liberal society.

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» Well, in the name of ____________... Posted by: ABetterFuture
» RE: Well, in the name of ____________... Posted by: SatanicJamboree
» You're coming unhinged. Posted by: ABetterFuture
» RE: You're coming unhinged. Posted by: SatanicJamboree
» that wall you yell at? Posted by: ABetterFuture
» Answers to your probing questions. Posted by: ABetterFuture
» RE: A terrifying future Posted by: SatanicJamboree
» You really don't know, do you? Posted by: ABetterFuture
» RE: You really don't know, do you? Posted by: SatanicJamboree
They're putting on Oscar Wilde's "An Ideal Husband"?
Posted by: defrag on Aug 23, 2007 5:42 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Nice irony, on more levels than they seem to realize.

Progress? - maybe they're a little more open-minded than British theatre-goers were in the years after Wilde's trial in 1895.

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How can you really educate with delusion?
Posted by: edraven on Aug 23, 2007 5:42 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Does PHC teach science?

I am so tired of people telling me they talk to God - - or ask questions of God and get answers - - or tell me that I'm going to a place that they made up. Yes, I know that present day Christians didn't invent Hell. That occured a long time ago, but they believe it.

Try reading the Bible, it is really dumb.

Ed Graham

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» Actually, Posted by: hurricane hugo
» RE: Actually, Posted by: SatanicJamboree
Ex-Christian fundamentalist looking for direction
Posted by: deni_haven on Aug 23, 2007 5:58 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There was a time when I would have been proud if one of my children would be accepted at PHC. I was steeped in this same extreme mindset. Like many PHC families, I had a strong conviction to "let the Lord decide" how many children we should have. Despite health concerns, my husband had a vasectomy reversal and we have had four more children. We've homeschooled all of them from the beginning. We became isolationists because nobody else "got it" - not even the "Christians" at the "Bible-believing" church we attended. So we also home churched. My children would all fit right in at PHC.

I've been reading articles by Chris Hedges on Alternet for some time now and that, plus some other reading has changed my views about God, the Bible, salvation, etc. I don't take the Bible as literally now. I no longer unquestioningly support George Jr. and I loathe the "Religious Right." I don't accept the patriarchal family structure of the Old Testament.

It's become a source of contention in my family because everyone thinks that mom has "backslidden" and "gone liberal." We don't know anyone who is not a fundamentalist - which means I can't talk to my friends about my changing outlook. This has really disrupted our lives - much like what Hanna Rosin anticpates would happen if she were to convert from her Jewish tradition to become a Christian.

I'm getting depressed and my husband is anxious. I don't want to ruin my family by distrupting the foundation of our beliefs and lifestyle. But, I can no longer live this way and teach my kids to do the same. I am confused about what to do now.

I have one friend who, after living this kind of life and home-birthing, breastfeeding and homeschooling 11 children for her patriarchal husband, got overwhelmed, depressed and suicidal. In the past year, she has been "enlightened." She returned home to her mother and her lesbian lover and now she has her own lover. Her family is devastated. Her children are hurt and angry that their mother has rejected everything that they hold precious and is now in danger of Hellfire.

I don't want that to be my story. I want to stay with my family and grow together. It is hard. I need direction. Email me at denihaven@hotmail.com with your sympathy and serious suggestions for my situation.

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» RE: Here are my suggestions Posted by: Jasonix
» RE: Here are my suggestions Posted by: deni_haven
» Leafsong - what is truth? Posted by: deni_haven
In the mean time.
Posted by: douglashoyt on Aug 23, 2007 6:16 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If there is time travel, maybe someone will go back in time and kill Paul of Tarsus and Mohamed.

In the mean time, we should encourage the "Christian evans" to abstane from sex to save themselves for Christ. In one generation, we should see a remarkable decrease in these insane types.

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and you're Jewish out of tradition?
Posted by: schnoggi on Aug 23, 2007 6:19 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
the author states that she adheres to another should-be-extinct fascism, er, religion, because her family has an unbroken tradition? sorry, you're just as mindless and stupid. throw stones, lemming.

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Getting past the smell of Christianity
Posted by: peacelf on Aug 23, 2007 6:57 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Thank you Hanna Rosin for the very real, honest look at evangelical Christians.

I am an evangelical Christian of a different stripe, and like you I am probably condemned to hell for my beliefs.

Eight years ago, I began re-reading Christianity in response to some discussions I had with my parent's Baptist minister who, at my parent's request, tried to "bring me back to Christ."

My readings ranged from early church history, gnosticism, the new discoveries of "gospels" in Nag Hammadi, Egypt and finally what schoalrs call "the historical Jesus." Beyond that, I combed through layman books on quantum theory and astrophysics in search of God. It was there that I discovered that some quantum physicists were entertaining the idea of a creator, a God that ties the universe together.

Like the prodical son, I had left Christianity with a curiosity and a thirst for knowledge and truth, but returned to Jesus with fresh eyes, eyes unencumbered with the weight of the "fear of God" lurking over me. I walked through hell fire in search of the true Jesus and the God he served. It was a transformation made in heaven and my return to Christianity much more meaningful and sweeter.
I am a different Christian because I have combined science, the historical Jesus' teachings and many other religious and philosophical ideals that wouldn't be possible under the watchful eyes of "born again" Christian peer pressure. The research of Jesus scholars greatly affected my understanding of Jesus' mission and message. Scholars like John Dominic Crossan , Elaine Pagels and many others, deconstructed my myth-based Jesus and transformed him into someone I could grasp and hold onto. I saw the light of Jesus through the eluvium of 2000 years.
That Jesus was/is a radical revolutionary who nonviolently challenged the corrupt and greedy power of (Roman) empire.
Since my reconstruction, I have come to understand that science and empirical study have a place in the universe, in that quest for truth. I also believe we humans have the (godly) power to manipulate and change our environment to suit our needs and/or destroy our planet, the end of times.

Dom Crossan argues that there are two kinds of eschatology: apocalyptic and sapient. The apocalyptic eschatologists dominate the discussion today. Those would be the same type that Rosin interviewed in her article. They believe that Jesus is going to return and take all "born again" people up to heaven and destroy the earth, condemning well over 2/3rds of humanity to Hell. This is a highly pessimistic view of eschatology that seems much maligned from the historical Jesus of the love, compassion, nonviolence buried in the New Testament.

The Sapient Eschatologists believe that the "end of times" has already begun when Jesus started the "Kingdom of God" movement 2000 years ago. And, that there is no second coming, only the transformation of society from a greedy corrupt empire into a community of love and peace; in other words, a utopian community. Jesus' very behavior WAS the transformation, and that, if we would learn to love God with all our heart and soul and love our neighbor as we do ourselves, share what we have with others, then we would have become a card carrying member of the Kingdom movement. The end of an era comes when violence, destruction of life and the planet end, and a new era of love and peace and community begin ON EARTH.

Jesus lived that message. Paul evangelized it, lived it and carried on the message beyond Judea into Europe. Unfortunately, that message was buried under the toxic sediment of political power and corruption, so that fewer and fewer people can stand the smell of "Christianity." However, once you get past the smell...

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» Nice job! Kaneh bosm! Posted by: garry minor
» RE: Nice job! Kaneh bosm! Posted by: peacelf
Chistianity is not equivalent to Fundamentalism.
Posted by: medicis on Aug 23, 2007 6:57 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Thinking and questioning are antithetical to fundamentalist - anything.

I prefer the former and despise the latter.

Fundamentalism rests upon the twin pillars of personal fear and thought-lessness.

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» Agreed Posted by: american
» Thinkers Posted by: openhouse
Chew on this
Posted by: willymack on Aug 23, 2007 7:38 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Just think about all the temples, churches, and cathedrals throughout "christiandom". What a huge investment in time, labor, and faith! Now, think about all the wars, torture, pestilance, starvation, and hideous atrocities committed against unbelivers and people of other faiths, associated with christianity-mainly by, but not entirely- by the catholic church. To me, this makes all those magnificent edifices nothing more than palaces of monumental stupidity, humbug, and hypocricy, and a gruesome reminder of the dark side of the human psyche. Now, let's suppose that irrefutable proof that the jesus myth is a fiction was uncovered today. How much do you suppose this would change the status quo? My guess is that it wouldn't change a thing. Until we're able to face this fatal flaw in our mental makeup and overcome it, there will NEVER be a lasting peace on this planet.

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» RE: Chew on this Posted by: Lauren
Excuse the expression, but...Jeez!
Posted by: jesme on Aug 23, 2007 7:41 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Read the comments here, then compare them to Rosin's description of the folks at PHC. Which bunch comes across to you as narrow-minded and intolerant? Not the fundies, who seem to be genuinely engaged with the culture, and eager to consort with those who don't think like themselves. You may not agree with them, but they seem like well-meaning, highly intelligent people who conduct themselves in a perfectly reasonable manner.

Then read the gibbering hatred spewed forth by many of the commenters. I especially like the guy who wishes he could go back in time to murder Paul and Mohammed. There's enlightenment and tolerance at its best!

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» You know, there is a difference Posted by: hurricane hugo
» Wrong-ola Posted by: eddie torres
edpaz
Posted by: edpaz on Aug 23, 2007 7:41 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When will the Christians begin following their teachings. Didn't Jesus Christ say something about "rendering unto Caeser"? Our forefathers came to this country for "Religious Freedom" not a religious dictatorship. That's exactly what they were trying to flee. The founders were right, "let religion abound" but keep it out of government. As Ghandi said "I like your Christ, it's your Christians I don't like."

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» RE: edpaz Posted by: leafsong1
Christiane Amanpour's "God's Warriors"?
Posted by: sausage on Aug 23, 2007 7:47 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I've been watching CNN's Christiane Amanpours' God's Warriors series of special reports. Tonight's episode, God's Christian Warriors, concludes the three night series.

I've already come to a conclusion about religious zealotry: it is a mental illness.

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» CNN is biased Posted by: american
So why are you harboring the little Nazi, Hanna?
Posted by: tomkara on Aug 23, 2007 8:29 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
One might hope that living with others would broaden the young lady's weltanschauung, but it seems you're loaning her books by evangelicals, so who's educating whom? I hope in the course of time your Patrick Henry student remains with your family that somehow you'll be able to detect a few cracks in her sadly boilerplate mentality and find ways to get on her the road to tolerance.

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» Maybe Posted by: hurricane hugo
2 great documentaries
Posted by: mcstewey on Aug 23, 2007 8:40 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This article was ok, but if you want to learn more about the increasing influence of the evangelical right on our political system check out, "Jesus Camp" and "With God On Our Side." Both are very even-handed and get directly to the point.

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BoldCHRIST DID NOT EXIST
Posted by: atomic on Aug 23, 2007 8:52 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Religion is poison. The personal relationship people say they have with god where they talk to him all day and he gives them clues or instructions back to them, is psychotic.

What's frightening about this story is that it reveals a whole faction of our youth have been brought up and diverted by evangelical religious leaders into some sort of army.

What's even more scary is that these individuals are very intelligent and have either bought the bible as absolute history or they understand the way to get ahead is to use religion.

Either way it's completely scary. An army of psychopaths with law degrees. Check out this movie.

http://zeitgeistmovie.com/

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» RE: BoldCHRIST DID NOT EXIST Posted by: Ocean tides
A Choice of Gods
Posted by: jim_altman on Aug 23, 2007 8:54 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The other Niebuhr, H. Richard, penned a book in 1929 called "The Social Sources of Denominationalism" in which he charted the development of a variety of Christian movements against socio-economic status. What he found was that as the people within a movement progressed up the social ladder, their denominations evolved more sophisticated means of interacting with society. The rise of the political influence of evangelical universities (Patrick Henry, Regents, Liberty, etc.) reflects the climbing wealth and social status of evangelicals. What Niebuhr's theories also suggest is that rise of the evangelicals is just another chapter in the great American mainstreaming process; just a few extra ingredients in the giant social blender of ever-blander American modernity. Witness the social habits of America's evangelicals and you see the same pansexual, drug-addled proclivities of society at large. It's Ursula K. LeGuinn's "Lathe of Heaven" in slow motion.

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God's Governance?
Posted by: jeffrey7 on Aug 23, 2007 9:28 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Who are we kidding? If these new evangelicals were truly following the path of Jesus,they would'nt be shooting for government spots or positions of control. The agenda they support is more akin to the anti-christ than true christianity.
Columbus was a 'God Fearing Man', look whatt he brought to the new world. Racisim,genocide and slow motion death by industrial pollution. It's been going on for more that 500 years with no signs of stopping. All in the name of Christ. A name that means Love. Who's nature is Peace. Who's way is Compassion. There's no governance that acts like that.

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Breeding fundamentalists and fanatics
Posted by: pzzp on Aug 23, 2007 9:33 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
All faiths have their systems for breeding "religious" persons. Al Qaeda have their camps where Muslim fundamentalists are bred. In America they are bred in schools as the one described. The process may be more civilized, guns are not issued, but the goal is the same: to promote religious tribalism. This tribalism eventually colors the future activities of the subjects, be they political or otherwise.

On a universal scale, it is a great battle between diversity and homogeneity, inclusionism and exclusionism. Perhaps it's in our genes.

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Paul was clueless, clueless about an earthly Jesus
Posted by: JoAnne on Aug 23, 2007 9:41 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Paul had nothing to say about the life, times, acts, people and places of Jesus who walked the sands of Palestine. Paul's writing began a scant 20 years after the account of the crucifixion of Jesus. The issue is however, that account as well as all accounts earthly of Jesus, was penned years SUBSEQUENT to Paul's writing by the gospel writers, starting with Mark.
To understand Paul one needs to think like Paul at his point in history.... And an important time in history it was, as just subsequent to this time was the time that Jesus LANDED ON EARTH, so to speak, via the pen held in the hand of one fictional-writer, Mark.
For Paul there was no Bethlehem, no wise men, no Joseph, Mary, Lazarus, no wedding at Canna, no nothing of the of an earthly Jesus. That was purely the writings of the gospels. Paul's Jesus was not the gopel Mark's Jesus, nor the gospel Matthew's Jesus, nor the gopel Luke's Jesus, nor the gospel John's Jesus. Paul's Jesus was borne of the late Hellenistic period, and totally in line, at the time, with a mythical Jesus whose abode was in the heavens. It wasn't until Mark penned the incredible story of Jesus about 70a.d. that he, the earthly Jesus, came to life.
Neither did Paul have anything to say of his encounter with GOD, the dazzling Light, on the road to Damascus..The alleged account that was the cause of his conversion to Xtianity. That account was LATER recorded only in the books of ACTS, written about 110c.e. One would certainly think that somewhere in all those letters to Paul's budding Xtian churches that he would have expounded liberally on his meeting of.... GOD!!!And liberally would be a vast understatment.
As further consideration that Paul's knew nothing about Jesus on earth, his letters contain over 200 clueless-telling passages that indicated hat if he had known nothing of the earthly Jesus, as written by Mark's, et al.
To get a better grasp of how devasting this to the historicity of Jesus , please read, and feel free to submit questions to Earl Doherty's at his excellent comprehensive website: www.jesuspuzzle.org

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Another, more dangerous myth
Posted by: truthteller on Aug 23, 2007 9:51 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Is that George Bush was EVER elected President - either time! With due respect for the author, please, please quit lending the legitimacy of being 'elected' to this criminally fraudulent administration. Brother Jeb and that bitch Katherine Harris stole FL for him in '00 - and Nader had nothing to do with it, disenfranchising tens of thousands of African Americans as "felons" did.

Ohio was stolen in a dozen different ways, all well documented in works by Greg Palast, Bob Fitrakis and Harvey Wasserman, Mark C. Miller, and RFK, Jr. Probably somewhere upwards of 300,000 votes were either denied, not counted or flipped for Bush.

So, please do not give this illegitimate President ANY legitimacy. The problem is a Democratic Party that won't call these thieves what they are, and a corporately owned press that is in collusion with them.

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» Damnit, you stole my post! Posted by: hurricane hugo
The Bible is just a continuation of ancient Midde Eastern myths
Posted by: sfdenizen on Aug 23, 2007 10:25 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Bible stories have antecedents in the ancient Sumerian, Mesopotamian, and Akkadian myths (like the Epic of Gligamesh). The Old Testament represents a historicial piecing together of Hebrew tribal history with creation/flood/messianic myths borrowed from more advanced civilizations of the ancient world. In the New Testament, Jesus as God-King born of a Virgin has striking parallels to similar God-Kings/Mothers in Egyptian, Mesopotamian, and Greek myths.
21st century people really need to let go of literal beliefs in our ancient myths and see them in a historical and scientific light. Many of the ethical teachings of the myths are still relevant (don't lie, steal, murder, horde - be kind, generous, grateful, etc.), so we can still glean meaning from them in that way, but as far as "facts" about the natural world and our place in it are concerned, they have no more weight than children's stories.

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I see the backlash has begun
Posted by: ReallyBearish on Aug 23, 2007 10:29 AM   
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The danger for the fundies is this: by trying to force their beliefs down the throats of others, they open their beliefs up to attack. At this point I don't think they can win the debate.

There's more than enough evidence that Christianity came into being by cobbling two other religions together-- Judaism and Mithraism. Both had significant followings in the Roman Empire. Add in pieces from Egyptian and Zoraster religions (not to mention the polytheism of the Greek and Roman religions) and we get Christianity. This is a debate the fundies shouldn't want to get into.

Paul and later missionaries were brilliant at taking elements of existing religions and using them to convert specific tribes and groups to their new religion. The real future of religion will be to cobble Christianity and Buddism together to form a new faith for a new millenium.

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What does it mean
Posted by: hurricane hugo on Aug 23, 2007 10:37 AM   
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...to carry on a running conversation with God in your head all the time?

It means you're schizophrenic. The. End.

plur

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