COMMENTS: 261
Are the Dead From the Minneapolis Bridge Collapse Victims of Conservative Ideology?
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Minnesota's Republican governor, Tim Pawlenty, reacted to the disaster by calling a press conference and, with a steely determination worthy of Rudy Guiliani, lying to the American people. Pawlenty insisted that inspections in 2005 and 2006 had found no structural problems with the bridge. But the Minneapolis Star-Tribune reported that the bridge "was rated as 'structurally deficient' two years ago and possibly in need of replacement." The bridge was borderline -- with a 50 sufficiency rating; if a bridge scores less than 50, it needs to be replaced.
According to the Pioneer Press, the bridge's suspension system was supposed to receive extra attention with inspections every two years, but the last one had been performed in 2003.
The governor had every reason to obfuscate; in 2005, he vetoed a bipartisan transportation package that would have "put more than $8 billion into highways, city and county roads, and transit over the next decade." At the time, he was applauded by many Republicans for his staunch fiscal "conservatism."
It's too soon to say for sure what caused this latest disaster, but as Stephen Flynn wrote in Popular Mechanics, when all is said and done, "investigators will likely find that two factors contributed to its failure: age and heavy use." Those conditions are anything but isolated:
According to a report card released in 2005 by the American Society of Civil Engineers (ASCE), 160,570 bridges, or just over one-quarter of the nation's 590,750 bridge inventory, were rated structurally deficient or functionally obsolete. The nation's bridges are being called upon to serve a population that has grown from 200 million to over 300 million since the time the first vehicles rolled across the I-35W bridge. Predictably that has translated into lots more cars.It was the second U.S. bridge collapse this week -- a span in California fell the day before, with far fewer injuries and no loss of life. The tragedy occurred just weeks after an 80-year-old steam pipe in Manhattan blew up, killing one and injuring dozens more. A year earlier, a section of tunnel in Boston collapsed, killing a woman as she drove home. A year before that, hundreds of thousands of Americans became refugees after New Orleans' pitiable levees collapsed -- a graphic illustration of shortsighted public policy if ever there was one. The AFL-CIO estimates that more than one in four roads are in "less than good condition." Minnesota ranks low on their list, with about one in eight failing to make the grade.
It's all part of a larger picture. We have a crumbling power grid and are falling behind the rest of the world in broadband infrastructure. The American Society of Civil Engineers (ASCE) talks of "congested highways, overflowing sewers and corroding bridges" that are "constant reminders of the looming crisis that jeopardizes our nation's prosperity and our quality of life." Every year the engineering society issues a report card grading 15 categories of America's once-premier infrastructure. In 2005, that "core" infrastructure collectively got a "D-," slightly worse than the "D" it received in 2000. Ironically, the nation's bridges received the highest score -- a "C" -- in 2005.
Experts have been warning of our gradually disintegrating infrastructure for years. ASCE's engineers estimate that it would take an investment of $1.6 trillion over the next 10 years to bring it up to modern standards. That investment would create of tens of thousands of decent jobs and, most economists agree, would likely unleash a new wave of productivity growth. But just as Minnesota's Pawlenty vetoed an increase in that state's highway funds so he could play a fiscal conservative in TV commercials, the GOP-controlled Congress rejected a Democratic proposal in 2002 that would have increased highway funding by $4 billion in a straight party-line vote (because they couldn't stand the fact that the bill also called for a minimum wage increase and an extension of unemployment benefits -- ultimately, a pork-laden version with nothing for workers did pass in 2005). Governance, ultimately, is a matter of priorities, and infrastructure takes a back seat.
One of the primary reasons for that is that there aren't organized constituents lobbying for public goods like highways and bridges -- people take those things for granted. A thousand grifters have gained office promising to cut taxes as if they existed in a vacuum, without mentioning the cost; no politician has ever won office promising to keep highways from collapsing on their constituents. For 30 years, we've been told by a series of right-wing snake-oil salesmen that they could deliver more and better public services while constantly cutting the taxes that pay for them, but it was always a fraud. The result is that the United States enjoys the third-lowest tax burden among the 30 most advanced economies as its public spaces gradually come apart at the seams.
I would argue that skimping out on infrastructure investments in the name of a low tax burden is a triumph of ideology over commonsense, but it goes beyond that. Conservative philosophy stresses limited government, not bad government, and nothing can change the fact that the public sector remains the only way to organize collectively when there's no profit involved. So nobody seriously believes that the the hidden hand of capitalism is going to step in and inspect and repair bridges that are open to the public. When lawmakers don't fund that work, they know full well that it won't get done.
What's more, the evidence that infrastructure investments result in increased economic productivity is fairly conclusive; some studies have estimated that every dollar invested in public infrastructure yields 104 percent return through increases in productivity (PDF).
So something more is going on. Stephen Flynn says, "Americans have been squandering the infrastructure legacy bequeathed to us by earlier generations. Like the spoiled offspring of well-off parents, we behave as though we have no idea what is required to sustain the quality of our daily lives."
Perhaps. And perhaps it has to do with American exceptionalism -- in every other country, citizens understand that their society is as good as they make it, while many of ours seem to believe that we're a leading nation according to some divine plan and no amount of bone-headed governance and skewed priorities can ever change that fact.
That's something to ponder as you drive over that bridge or through that tunnel on the way home.
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Posted by: HeroesAll on Aug 3, 2007 12:25 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's also part of the worship of the 'hidden hand of the market', since some people (largely Republicans and idiots) seem to believe that said hidden hand is all-powerful and perfect. Rather like a 20th century god.
Another instance you could have mentioned, Joshua, is the power failures in the north-east a couple of years ago. I can't remember exactly when, but I do recall the panic, because of course the first finger was pointed at terr'rists. I also seem to recall that life actually improved in some respects for some people, as neighbourhoods started to work together and organise to help each other.
in every other country, citizens understand that their society is as good as they make it, while many of ours seem to believe that we're a leading nation according to some divine plan and no amount of bone-headed governance and skewed priorities can ever change that fact.
Sadly, I hear this sort of nonsense frequently. America can do no wrong, and is best at everything, apparently, regardless of the evidence. It's a bit sad in some ways: at least England knew when their moment of glory was over, coming as it did after the devastation of World War II.
There is a little light over here, though. Our Prime Monster, John Howard The Weasel, is suffering a little in the polls (although alas he's never fallen as far as George Bush, probably because he's a more cunning politician).
And since we have an election coming up soon-ish, Howard and his government are splashing around the cash like toddlers in the bath. Sadly, it's not doing them much good: the electorate has become a bit blase about handouts, and they're now less than thrilled about Howard. One of his little tricks recently backfired, which gave me no end of joy: he announced money for a new hospital in a marginal seat (quelle surprise), and was instantly beseiged by all the other desperate hospitals clamoring for funding. He sent out his Health Minister to tell them there'd be no more money, of course, and everyone's a bit sour, given that the Howard government has done the same stupid "fiscal responsibility" aka "complete tight-arse except in marginal seats" act for years now. Our infrastructure is in much the same state as yours, and people have finally started to notice.
It's pretty basic stuff, though: governments are tasked with maintaining the smooth functioning of society, and that includes infrastructure. It ain't exciting, but it's necessary.
By the bye, how much has been spent so far on the Iraq war crime? Do the relatives of those who died think that the money has been better spent in Iraq than it could have been in America?
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» Try visiting sometime!
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» Try thinking sometime!
Posted by: HeroesAll
» Thank you for not visiting
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» That is so funny coming from you dino! You live here and don't have a clue.
Posted by: johngary66
» How dare you...
Posted by: gregii
» RE: Try visiting sometime!
Posted by: Curio
» RE: Try visiting sometime!
Posted by: Suz
» RE: Try visiting sometime!
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Try visiting sometime!
Posted by: Suz
» RE: Try visiting sometime!
Posted by: babs
» RE: Try visiting sometime!
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Try visiting sometime!
Posted by: maxloen
» RE: Try visiting sometime!
Posted by: Nedtheredhead
» RE: Try visiting sometime!
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Try visiting sometime!
Posted by: Nedtheredhead
» RE: Try visiting sometime!
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Try visiting sometime!
Posted by: Nedtheredhead
» There will be spin for more "TOLL ROADS". Federal legislation has ALREADY been passed and
Posted by: albrechtkrausse
» That's not a bad thing, you know...
Posted by: karma_ran_over_dogma
» 'Gas Tax' is a myth. Normal taxes and bonds used. Private roads and bridges are about as Un-American
Posted by: albrechtkrausse
» "When the bridge is paid off the toll is erased." - not often
Posted by: karma_ran_over_dogma
» RE: "When the bridge is paid off the toll is erased." - not often. That is the problem.
Posted by: albrechtkrausse
» RE: "When the bridge is paid off the toll is erased." - not often. That is the problem.
Posted by: karma_ran_over_dogma
» Roads are for EVERYONE, not just the rich or the corporations. They are a 'PUBLIC GOOD'
Posted by: albrechtkrausse
» Excellent point, Albrech, I believe the same way..... freedom of movement WAS one of those great...
Posted by: Prophit0
» RE: it is a very bad thing
Posted by: gregii
» Make that "TROLL ROADS"
Posted by: hagwind
» RE: There will be spin for more "TOLL ROADS". Federal legislation has ALREADY been passed and
Posted by: momly
» Actually, it was a good article...... now the point, however, about small gov advocates....
Posted by: Prophit0
Comments are closed-
Posted by: ahmlco on Aug 3, 2007 12:27 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
All governments have a budget and a finite tax base from which to draw it. The author seems to assume, however, that you can draw an endless supply of golden eggs from the public "goose" to spend as you wish. And if that doesn't work, well, we'll just cut the goose open to get even more.
But we all know the moral of that story, don't we?
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» RE: Conservative... or liberal?
Posted by: richholland
» RE: Conservative... or liberal?
Posted by: ahmlco
» RE: Conservative... or liberal?
Posted by: newtype_alpha
» Republican Governor Vetoed Infrastructure Bill
Posted by: LeaderofMen
» RE: Conservative... or liberal?
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Conservative... or liberal?
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» "conservatives" are spending MUCH more than the so-called "liberals". In addition to the
Posted by: albrechtkrausse
» RE: Conservative... or liberal?
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Conservative... or liberal?
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Conservative... or liberal?
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» Robert Byrd
Posted by: apophenia_monkey
» RE: Conservative... or liberal?
Posted by: SatanicJamboree
» Well actually satan, dino and albrecht read rethug talking points. Their not allowed to think.
Posted by: johngary66
» RE: Well actually satan, dino and albrecht read rethug talking points. Their not allowed to think.
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» What can I say dino, I was on a roll?
Posted by: johngary66
» RE: Demos largest pork in congress?
Posted by: gregii
» RE: Your tax breaks hard at work here.
Posted by: Sushi
» Yes, we know the moral of that story, lets say it out loud........
Posted by: Prophit0
Comments are closed-
Posted by: talkville on Aug 3, 2007 12:29 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This bridge, as I understand, is approximately 40 years old. It can only be hoped that a vigorous and sustained effort is made to obtain the documentation and paper-work as to those involved in the original construction and the work-orders and plans of those "outsourced" contractors who performed the work. Given the relatively short span of existence of this bridge, documentation should be readily available. It's time to hold those involved in the palpably shoddy construction of this bridge to account. And, as I understand from a report on news, Minnesota is among the HIGHEST in maintenance and public works provision. Condolences to those who lost family members, neighbors, friends in Minnesota.
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» DON'T FIX the bridges. How about producing and buying locally? One of the main reasons
Posted by: albrechtkrausse
» RE: DON'T FIX the bridges. How about producing and buying locally? One of the main reasons
Posted by: kamcallen
» Look at the FACTS, not propaganda.
Posted by: albrechtkrausse
» RE: Look at the FACTS, not propaganda.
Posted by: babs
» Albrecht likes to go way back to obfuscate the issue. I'm surprised he hasn't brought up...
Posted by: johngary66
» I can't believe you don't get it (Yes, I think you are prevaricating)
Posted by: gregii
» RE: "Creative" Destruction
Posted by: timebomb734
» Sorry timebomb734, but it is all about politics
Posted by: gregii
Comments are closed-
Posted by: richholland on Aug 3, 2007 1:20 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
in 1989 I visited Praque and surroundings besides shabby houses many highways had a good quality.
And the people had free education and free health care.
In Europe and Australie we combine Capitalisme with Socialisme.
Capitalisme is evil and only works for the happy few. Socialisme doesnot work.
Is there any hope for the USA??????
Probably if you donot make wars and use the money for your country.
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» RE: the result of propaganda
Posted by: talkville
» RE: the result of propaganda
Posted by: hagwind
» RE: the result of propaganda
Posted by: talkville
» RE: the result of propaganda
Posted by: Earthling
» RE: the result of propaganda
Posted by: talkville
» RE: the result of propaganda...
Posted by: Pirate1
» RE: the result of propaganda...
Posted by: hagwind
» RE: the result of propaganda...
Posted by: Nedtheredhead
» 1 bridge a week fails in US; anyone know the rate elsewhere?
Posted by: Beck
» RE: 1 bridge a week fails in US; anyone know the rate elsewhere?
Posted by: Earthling
» RE: 1 bridge a week fails in US; anyone know the rate elsewhere?
Posted by: Nedtheredhead
Comments are closed-
» RE: eminds my of...
Posted by: talkville
Comments are closed-
Posted by: adp3d on Aug 3, 2007 3:58 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: shangrilalad on Aug 3, 2007 4:10 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Disintegrating Infrastructure
Conservative Ideology is the same as Mafia Ideology, it’s all about corruption and death. Both are criminal enterprises that prey on people, and it’s only the scope of the two enterprises that differ. The Mafia sells heroin and Conservatives sell endless war. War is where the BIG BUCKS are made. The Mafia sells euphoria, and Conservatives sell fear, both are destructive, but which is worse?
Collapsing bridges are the least of our Disintegrating Infrastructure, the collapsing standards of living for middleclass Americans is worse. Conservatives have been waging race and class wars for generations, with great success, and they have destroyed our national cohesion for profit and power. Our country and people are being cannibalized by vicious degenerates who greedily eat their own children. Something that even the Mafia doesn’t do.
.
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» But There Were SO Many Other Things to Do...
Posted by: Gravitas
» RE: Disintegrating Infrastructure
Posted by: Pirate1
Comments are closed-
Posted by: reinaldok on Aug 3, 2007 4:54 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Iraq, we might have some cash left to attempt to fix up our decrepit basic installations?
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» don't forget the people....
Posted by: ellie
» RE: don't forget the people....
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: Iraq and the bridge
Posted by: Pirate1
» OH PLEASE.
Posted by: timebomb734
» Both the chimp and pawlenty have neglected our infrastructure!
Posted by: johngary66
» RE: Both the chimp and pawlenty have neglected our infrastructure!
Posted by: timebomb734
» RE: Both the chimp and pawlenty have neglected our infrastructure!
Posted by: johngary66
» RE: Both the chimp and pawlenty have neglected our infrastructure!
Posted by: gregii
» Restoring full taxes for the rich...
Posted by: Earthling
Comments are closed-
Posted by: nor cal surfer on Aug 3, 2007 5:05 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
isn't that about what we will have sunk into Iraq before Bush is perp-flown to the Haque? we're already at a half trillion, matching the adjusted cost of the 13 year war in Viet Nam.
isn't that about what we could have earned by legallizing and taxing marijuana and prostitution in 2000?
isn't that what we could have allocated away from the Military-Industrial complex in an afternoon?
the proverbial forest has already been clear cut; the sheeple are shaded but by one tree: their ignorance.
(note to self: most reading this are the choir, not sheeple)
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» RE: conservative impact
Posted by: ALANHESTER
Comments are closed-
Posted by: PJT on Aug 3, 2007 5:11 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Don't forget interest, they CHARGED All that Stuff! NM
Posted by: Gravitas
» RE: Dope slap time
Posted by: Ratskii
» RE: Twins Stadium
Posted by: chaoslegs
» RE: Dope slap time
Posted by: peacemama
» RE: Dope slap time
Posted by: peacemama
» Now slap the dope
Posted by: gregii
» RE: Dope slap time
Posted by: ALANHESTER
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Gravitas on Aug 3, 2007 5:14 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is a truly profound observation! I think I am going to use this quote (duly noted of course) as an essay question!
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» I loved this point, too.
Posted by: porgygirl
» RE: I loved this point, too.
Posted by: karma_ran_over_dogma
» RE: I loved this point, too.
Posted by: phatkhat
» RE: I loved this point, too.
Posted by: Blade
» Bring back the trains!
Posted by: dadux
» RE: piphany
Posted by: bcgirl125
Comments are closed-
Posted by: LMNOP on Aug 3, 2007 5:16 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Who isn't?
But note the use of the word "conservative". It could have been "Republican" or "neoconservative".
"Republican isn't the best word because the Democrats, though less so perhaps than the Republicans, are conservatives, too, and, if not actively complicit, they're at least passively guilty as well for doing nothing and for standing for nothing.
"Neocon" is probably the best word. I don't mind derogating the word "conservative, but it's a little too broad for the present purpose as there is a type of conservative (no telling how few are left since their presence can't be felt in national politics) who would not let America rot.
This is the pathological, conscience-free type of conservatism that controls America (and both parties), which has just one, non-competing value: the lust for power and money. Even the very survival of their grandchildren and the earth itself is not a brake on these people's predation on the rest of us and exploitation of the earth. Literally: one value, never mitigated by any other idea or feeling.
That's the only kind of conservative thinking that most of us have ever seen, so "conservative" substitutes nicely for "neocon" in most contexts, offending maybe eight or ten people who are decent conservatives (where are you all? if you respect the Constitution, you should be fighting this monster with us).
One other word to consider using is "corporatist", which says it all, even implying fascist without overtly saying so. Also, it's easier to see the Democrats' conservatism and complicity in creating a corporatocracy when you look at their corporate ties.
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» Good point, but remember this is about competence
Posted by: ReallyBearish
» I don't think it's about competence. It's about dominion.
Posted by: LMNOP
» Bush was the perfect puppet for Corporate America! Dumb as a rock and unquestioning.
Posted by: johngary66
» RE: Nomenclature
Posted by: SatanicJamboree
» RE: Nomenclature
Posted by: Pirate1
» RE: Nomenclature
Posted by: LMNOP
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Conservasaurus on Aug 3, 2007 5:24 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Josh, you are really reaching on this one.
I have visions of you sitting up all nite saying there MUST be someway we can spin this as anti conservative...
Bigger government will make us all safer???.. please!!!
I propose you take a poll and see how many liberals were driving across the bridge at the moment it collapsed.. you might find LIBERALS are at fault!
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» RE: a long nite spinning!
Posted by: marid
» RE: a long nite spinning!
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» Says the king the conservative spin
Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: a long nite spinning!
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: a long nite spinning!
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: a long nite spinning!
Posted by: SatanicJamboree
» RE: a long nite spinning!
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» Josh, I don't think slugs realize they leave a trail. My apology to slugs.
Posted by: johngary66
» RE: a long nite spinning!
Posted by: SatanicJamboree
» LOL
Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: a long nite spinning!
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: a long nite spinning!
Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: a long nite spinning!
Posted by: ordaj
» Ban him
Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: Ban him
Posted by: SatanicJamboree
» RE: Ban him
Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: Ban him
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: a long nite spinning! yes, it is. How does smaller government solve this, again?
Posted by: Beck
» RE: a long nite spinning! yes, it is. How does smaller government solve this, again?
Posted by: SatanicJamboree
» RE: a long nite spinning!
Posted by: ALANHESTER
Comments are closed-
Posted by: marid on Aug 3, 2007 5:25 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Repairing the bridge adds to it, new cars adds to it, casket sales, lawyers fees, plane traffic for news anchors, food and water consumed by rescue workers, pay for the rescuers, equipment rentals, and all the other myriad of things that this tragedy will set off will boost our GDP. And so in the eyes of Wall Street and the economists we will do better as a nation.
For Pete's sake when will we get off this bus to the insane asylum and realize that our people's quality of life has little or nothing to do with the GDP.
Remember the true mission of govt, to provide for the good of the people and the welfare of the country as a whole.
The Constitution has been changed to read "We the Corporation", when will We the People finally look up and realize they have been shearing us and sending us to slaughter for years. The Corpse rule all.
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» Excellent point
Posted by: HeroesAll
» Hurricanes & earthquakes "help" the economy too!
Posted by: karma_ran_over_dogma
» RE: Ahh, but remember!
Posted by: TheNamelessCity
» Read the preamble to the Constitution
Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: ead the preamble to the Constitution
Posted by: dangerouslysane
» Disasters and GDP
Posted by: tjg1984
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Posted by: marxalot on Aug 3, 2007 5:31 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Cronies Gone Wild
Posted by: ALANHESTER
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Posted by: Bev on Aug 3, 2007 5:53 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: We need to dump both parties that just want to politicize on tragedies and DO NOTHING ABOUT THEM!
Posted by: freethink7
» Get off the short bus
Posted by: Spot
» we need an alternative. any ideas?
Posted by: sphoenix
» We all want to change the world
Posted by: LMNOP
» ideas?
Posted by: dover23
» bev: confess. It's an obvious rethug ploy t blame both parties. If you really buy into it, well.....
Posted by: johngary66
Comments are closed-
Posted by: freethink7 on Aug 3, 2007 6:05 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We the people are sick and tired of funneling money needed to rebuild our roads, bridges and our infrastructure into your illegal unethical wars.
All profits made from unscrupulous war profiteers/contractors must now be used to rebuild our own country and all its crumpling bridges and roads. Oh, and you can pay reparations to the families of the bridge collapse with your filthy blood money.
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Posted by: ProgressiveManiac on Aug 3, 2007 6:23 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So, perhaps God will re-build the bridge in Minnesota and the levees in New Orleans. Or perhaps the private sector will step in and do a good efficient job of it. All we need is to have more faith in these magic solutions.
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» When I read "Faith-based Infrastructure"...
Posted by: tjg1984
» RE: When I read "Faith-based Infrastructure"...
Posted by: ProgressiveManiac
» RE: Faith-based Infrastructure
Posted by: ALANHESTER
Comments are closed-
Posted by: R.I.P. on Aug 3, 2007 6:27 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's bad engineering to satisfy economic priorities .... Google "bridge disasters" and you'll find the same story again and again. Rip Tragle
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» Then How Do You Explain
Posted by: Gravitas
» RE: Then How Do You Explain
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» First Ventura, then Pawlenty were NO NEW TAXES idiots. They deserve some of the blame.
Posted by: johngary66
» Engineering bad economics
Posted by: eddie torres
» RE: ngineering bad economics
Posted by: dover23
» Alternate interpretation
Posted by: eddie torres
» RE: Alternate interpretation
Posted by: dover23
» 'Big' isn't the same as 'fraudulent'
Posted by: eddie torres
» In Minnesota, polls continuously supported higher taxes for transportation.
Posted by: johngary66
Comments are closed-
Posted by: VannaLaRoche on Aug 3, 2007 6:33 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: That other catastrophe
Posted by: phatkhat
» RE: That other catastrophe
Posted by: Conservasaurus
Comments are closed-
Posted by: shangrilalad on Aug 3, 2007 6:36 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Step Up.
The next thing you hear might be Rush and O’Reilly blaming liberals for blowing up the Minnesota bridge. Don’t laugh, they’ve said worse.
Murdoch is a fascist, his newspapers and networks are fascist, his “Anchors” are fascist, and it’s all fascist all the time.
WTF!
Democratic Representative didn’t notice when fascists started taking over the air waves, when “conservatives” packed the courts and every other agency of government with “good little Germans,” and when the “Decider” urinated on the Constitution and balance of powers we once held dear?
Somebody better step up and tell America what’s happening, because we’ve never been in deeper excrement. We’ve got people in power who are changing our form of government by Crime & Decree, and few of our “Representatives” seem to notice or care.
Americans are not cowards. We’ll fight anybody, anytime for dissin’ us, but someone has to tell us the truth so we know who or what to fight. Right now we have anarchy and paralysis, caused by a dictatorial president and no organized opposition from any of our Democratic “leaders.”
Step up and tell America what’s happening..
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» Yup! And don't forget the obesity "crisis."
Posted by: Gravitas
» RE: Yup! And don't forget the obesity "crisis."
Posted by: phatkhat
Comments are closed-
Posted by: sausage on Aug 3, 2007 6:39 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Of course, for nearly thirly years, from Reagan to Bush II the Nightmare, our free-market fundamentalists in Congress, on both side of the aisle, have been singing the praises of private efficiency over governmental incompetency and slothful government bureaucrats.
Yet does anyone ever look at private efficiency?
I seems to me that every time a public enterprise is privatized the following scenario takes place: New private owner fires half of work force, coerces remaining workers to work longer hours, busts unions, lowers pay; cuts corners on maintenance in effort to increase profit margine, which already took a jump due to lower wages; after several years of profit taking and physical neglect, private owners declares enterprise unprofitable and walks away, leaving government to pick up pieces.
It's too soon to tell, but I will wager that the State of Indiana will be facing a similar situation in twenty or thirty years.
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» It will happen. I'm sure of it. No reason to talk 'privatisation' cause its already done!!
Posted by: albrechtkrausse
» RE: It will happen. I'm sure of it. No reason to talk 'privatisation' cause its already done!!
Posted by: kamcallen
» Absolutely true!!!!!!!
Posted by: pleaseplanttrees
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Posted by: jmndodge on Aug 3, 2007 6:45 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: More to come
Posted by: phatkhat
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Posted by: ogman on Aug 3, 2007 6:49 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Our economy is crashing under the weight of thieves who steal and then respond that their victims simply should have been more careful. Our laws now provide cover for this thievery and punish those who object to being ripped off. Fixing bridges won't buy anyone a new yacht, so you can bet it will still be a low priority, even after this tragedy.
Insurance companies are some of the worst thieves. No doubt they will respond to this incident by canceling the policies of anyone who has to cross a bridge to get to work. These same companies have already destroyed the health care system. I'm pretty sure we can solve the entire health care "crisis" by simply jailing the lot of them and distributing their bloated wealth to the medical community so they can actually provide MEDICAL services.
The wealthy have demanded and received tax cuts. In return they promised more jobs and better services. None of those things have materialized. Personally, I'm ready to vote for the first candidate that shouts "No New Tax Cuts!" Privatization lines the pockets of the rich but solves no problems. What kind of fool does one have to be to think that a corporate mindset will support the needs of a society? Bridges and roads and health care are not profitable, rather they are necessities. They don't increase stock prices or provide golden parachutes, instead they support a healthy and safe society. No corporation is ever going to solve the day to day problems faced by a democratic society. As has often been said, "A corporation is not a democracy." Why then are we letting them run this one?
We live in a country that creates nothing. Today's new wealth is created by lies and theft, by cutting necessities, and by taking jobs away from people who need them to support their families. Corporate leaders mismanage their companies and then punish workers who had no control over the bungling boardroom. Lives are lost on a daily basis so that the wealthy can buy bigger cars and bigger houses and ravenously devour far more than their fair share of our resources. Believe me, they will continue preying upon us just as long as we fail to defend ourselves.
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» Tragic sense of political life
Posted by: wrd
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Posted by: pzzp on Aug 3, 2007 7:07 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This just in:
The TRIAA (Terrorist Reporting Industry Association of America) quotes witnesses as saying they observed a robed man sawing through girders under the bridge just hours before the collapse. President George W. Bush, speaking through a muted microphone so people could "read my lips", indicated that new legislation will mandate Viagra be added to cement in order to "stiffen it up". Pfizer stock shot up at the news and the offices of the Carlyle Group were swamped with buy orders from members of the Cabinet and Congress.
Vice President Dick Cheney said: "My heart goes out to the taxpayers the cuts to whose taxes and resulting shortage of infrastructure funds is now causing them grief and guilt. It is not easy to have such a tragedy on your conscience". "It's a good time to go shopping" pipes in President Bush. Continues Cheney "I also appreciate the diversion this incident offers from the drudgery of dealing with the war in Iraq. I am pleased to announce also that I have awarded the bridge reconstruction contract to Halliburton last night. Blackwater Security personnel are standing by to monitor the situation and prevent looting of the submerged vehicles in the river."
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» RE: Republican or Democratic bridge?
Posted by: hagwind
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Posted by: chaoslegs on Aug 3, 2007 7:11 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I agree with Joshua on the overall point of this article. Tompaine.com has taken to counting sinkholes caused by leaky water/sewer systems to highlight the crumbling infrastructure.
More funding would be very welcome by Minnesota, or at least Twin City residents. Even the Chamber of Commerce was calling for it, as the growing congestion hurts business, especially transportation dependent business. However, more funding would not necessarily have prevented this. If the MN DOT engineers give it a pass (or pass enough) then they won't allocate funds to fix something they don't see as a problem.
Now the lack of funding has lead to what I have called the 'beg and spend' plan for the Crosstown (I-35W and MN Hwy 62) construction which was delayed by a year because the original proposal had the construction companies front the money and we would pay them when federal funds came down the pipeline in laters years. I have also called this the Wimpy method of funding, 'I will pay you Tuesday for a highway today.'
I would recommend people read some of John Gunyou's article/columns on governing. He is the city manager of Minnetonka, and was Finance Commissioner for the state of Minnesota under Republican Governor (moderate) Arne Carlson. So for those conservatives trolling this site, he is a Republican.
Some thoughts from a person that has driven across that bridge 100s of times.
P.S. I think the Big Dig mention was a disservice to the point of this article as that section was constructed in 1999. I thought the point was crumbling infrastructure, not properly designed infrastructure (although cost cutting because of lower tax base can lead to that).
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» Playing hardball with other people's money
Posted by: eddie torres
» RE: Twins stadium
Posted by: chaoslegs
» If corporate welfare = efficient use of public resources...
Posted by: eddie torres
» RE: Are you thinking I don't agree with you - No Post
Posted by: chaoslegs
» Nope. Just finding it difficult to stop typing...
Posted by: eddie torres
» RE: Twins stadium
Posted by: timebomb734
» RE: Twins stadium
Posted by: chaoslegs
» RE: I live less than 3 miles from the bridge
Posted by: ALANHESTER
Comments are closed-
Posted by: sliver on Aug 3, 2007 7:19 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I know a government engineer who said there is a lot of pressure on them to stay under budget. They keep asking for more money, which they know is needed for safe roads, but they never get enough. I would bet that the engineers who inspected the bridge could have condemned it, but that would have busted their budget, so they tried to get by with it.
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» RE: Standing on rubble
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» The idiot chimp is coming to Mpls. tommorro to declare a national catastrophe and martial law.
Posted by: johngary66
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Posted by: VZEQICVA on Aug 3, 2007 7:22 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Not betting AGAINST it, patiently waiting FOR it to happen
Posted by: scheherezade
» "...patiently waiting FOR it to happen" Like global warming, you mean?
Posted by: Sojourner
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Posted by: maxpayne on Aug 3, 2007 7:30 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Tombo on Aug 3, 2007 7:36 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: You got to be kidding me!
Posted by: chaoslegs
» Tombo is doesn't live in Mpls. Nobody here( rethug or dem) would make such a fool remark.
Posted by: johngary66
» RE: Tombo is doesn't live in Mpls. Nobody here( rethug or dem) would make such a fool remark.
Posted by: ALANHESTER
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Posted by: flingus on Aug 3, 2007 8:00 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: P. Hermes on Aug 3, 2007 8:12 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: CJC on Aug 3, 2007 8:13 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The low tax, small government ideology is, sadly, not just a right-wing idea. Almost all Americans subscribe to it one way or another. We firmly believe that responsibility lies with individuals. We generally see government as 'wasteful."
I once was a resident of the ever-so-liberal town of Brookline MA. I happened to live on a street of modest houses in the one Republican ward (of 15 in the town) that happened also to be the wealthiest. There was a public debate about funding for the town parks. The residents of Chestnut Hill were opposed. Well, even if you have a big lawn and a swing set etc etc where will your children be able to play on the town soccer or baseball team if the public parks are a shamble?
What this way of thinking ignores, obviously, is that there are collective risks and collective responsibilities that none of us can manage on our own. Even if the questionable quality of the I35 bridge had been well publicized in Minnesota who can actually take "personal responsibility" never to cross the bridge. Even in the case of Hurricane Katrina there was a lot of public feeling that those residents of New Orleans who didn't flee (never mind that most of them had no way to get out) had only themselves to blame for ending up in the Convention Center or clinging to their roofs.
We need to make every effort to change the conversation. There are many many areas of public life that demand public responsibility. We all need to stop talking about tax cuts and keeping budgets as low as possible and concern ourselves with what needs to get done and how to do it.
We can't have private bridges, roads, levees, tunnels, airports etc etc etc. Toll roads are no answer either as it remains a public responsibility to ensure that public facilities are safe for all of us.
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Posted by: Ratskii on Aug 3, 2007 8:37 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Well the catastrophic collapse did happen -- the highway engineers were wrong. So aside from funding issues there is the matter of whether the calculations and measurements for testing the nations bridges are accurate.
144,000 vehicles a week used this bridge. It would have taken the acknowledgement that there was a major risk for them to have closed it down for 2 to 3 years in order to rebuild it.
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» RE: ratski
Posted by: chaoslegs
» Rat, at least try to get your facts straight. 150,000 to 200,000 cars a DAY used that bridge.
Posted by: johngary66
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Posted by: scheherezade on Aug 3, 2007 8:51 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: sphoenix on Aug 3, 2007 9:09 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Perhaps. And perhaps it has to do with American exceptionalism -- in every other country, citizens understand that their society is as good as they make it, while many of ours seem to believe that we're a leading nation according to some divine plan and no amount of bone-headed governance and skewed priorities can ever change that fact."
....brings me back to repeat it.
Amerika is the new Pax Romana. Just like those Amerikans who believe that our mere existence is divinely ordained..."One nation under God", so too did the Romans feel. That sense of divine nationalism was part of their undoing...although it took the better part of 500 years for Rome to finally unravel, leaving a few meager remnants that actually lasted almost 1000 years.
Here is a quote from Peter Heather in his book, "The Fall of the Roman Empire: A New History of Rome and the Barbarians" (2006): “Indeed, the Roman state saw itself not as just marginally better than those beyond its frontiers - but massively and absolutely superior, because its social order was divinely ordained. This ideology not only made upper-class Romans feel good about themselves, but was part and parcel of the functioning of Empire. “
“The overwhelming implications of this attitude were, first, that conflict should be the normal state of relations between Roman and non-Roman; and second, that the Roman Empire should be victorious in whatever it aspired to. What did divine favour mean, if not security against defeat that the hands of those lacking that divine favour?”
Keeping that in mind...do we see any parallels to the sense of nationalism that is raging in this country, as well as the rhetoric and actions our government and religions are taking in the People's name?
IMO the only way this country...and this world for that matter, will ever heal from this crap is to take religious fervor out of the operations of government. People, of any belief system or religion, need to respect each others differences and stop pretending that they are better than everyone else. As long as there is a sense of elitism, privilege, or divine ordination we will have the problems that we are seeing today.
Let's face facts...Iraq has become a Holy War...Christians/Jews vs. any other belief system in the world. I have heard the fundies calling Muslims servants of the devil. This is not productive debate and will only perpetuate the divisions amongst peoples. These divisions are certainly working very well for some people who see this as an opportunity for self-enrichment. But in the end everyone on earth will be the ultimate losers, and governments and countries will eventually be dissolved, just as happened in old Rome.
I hate to say it but...I hope the dissolution happens sooner rather than later...I would like to help rebuild a better, more sane country...and ultimately world. I just hope I'm still alive to see it happen...
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Posted by: FURonnie on Aug 3, 2007 10:29 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I looked under at the rotting posts and old piers and said any shaker and you'll be of the ground!
A year later I saw this gentleman on TV standing in front of the racked house sitting on the ground. The earthquake which is common in the area knocked it off those sticks. What had been a fairly easy task and moderately priced job turn into an enormous task.
Folks spend money on glamour not infrastructure. We can spend billions on Iraq's rebuild but when it comes to the real needs we fail.
In all probability they could have added some simple steel plates at the digonal braceing junctures and it would have stood at least until we wake up and rebuild our house instead of stealing others.
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» RE: We buy frosting not cake
Posted by: YogiBear
» The steel plates you suggest were an option discussed, but it cost more than cosmetics.
Posted by: johngary66
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Ghoulman on Aug 3, 2007 10:30 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Nice article Josh.
The so called "small government" GOP rhetoric really just means micro-management of large bureaucracies by political officers hand picked to forward the Conservative ideology. These bureaucracies are reduced to an ineffective mess (Bush/Cheney folded FEMA into Homeland Security before Katrina hit... it demonstrates just what I'm saying and what Josh wrote in the article), the money goes to the military industrial complex (where DO Americans think their taxes go anyway?) if not straight to Haliberton Corp. by way of Iraq.
After 9/11 and before Katrina, the top three disasters, experts advised, are a WMD terror attack, an earthquake in California, and the levees breaking in New Orleans. TOP THREE!
There are millions of dedicated government people willing to help Americans and have good ideas and plans to do so... but the Conservative Movement doesn't BELIEVE in those people and worse, they believe bureaucracies are stupid liberal and even evil. Take immigration - many States had years of research and plans to deal with the increase of immigration from Mexico. Washington ignored it and, in need of an issue to attack with, they ignored the State initiatives and created, out of thin air, the FEDERAL immigration debate. If you wanna call the racist trash Lou Dobbs spits out a debate.
The US is a war economy. That's all that's left. when industry disappears (and is outsourced), the dollar falls, and the only ups on the DOW are tech bubbles, the next thing The Powers That Be do is to loot the place.
... no money left for power grids, bridges, highways... oh wait, there's that Ronald Reagan Highway in Alaska that goes to no where and no one uses. What? The entire Republican caucus in Alaska is under investigation for massive corruption? What a frackin' shock. :D
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» you frackin contradict yourself
Posted by: dover23
» RE: you frackin contradict yourself
Posted by: Ghoulman
» RE: you frackin contradict yourself
Posted by: dover23
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Posted by: militaryhater on Aug 3, 2007 11:13 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Also no one in this country wants to 'finance' transportation which means taxing us at the pumps, raising license renewal tabs or actually going even further, building toll booths at bridges to finance them. Toll booths would hit everyone that uses a bridge or road. Could this be the answer? Chicago uses them with great success. Of course if this were to happen, the rich corporations would try to control this too as I have read our country is moving in this direction. Privatizing our highways and bridges to BIG CORPORATE America so they can take more money from us and get richer on our unhappiness. Not only are they trying to seize our power companies, they want to control all the infrastructure. The more money the Federal Government doesn't give to States, knowing that they will struggle to find the money, the easier it will be for BIG CORPORATIONs to come to the aid of All STATES in our Union offering salvation. They will raise prices even more and milk us until we can't live in this country anymore. The solution is to keep our tax money in this country and no more financing useless wars that only help the rich.
Stopping the WAR MACHINE and staying in our own backyard and taking care of our own people solves this issue as well. I would rather have the money stay in our own country than feeding Haliburton and other rich cronies like disgusting Cheney.
Franklin Delano Roosevelt is the last president to invest in America and Americans. The rich Corporations have slowly riddled away at his good efforts and they our sending us back to the 1929 crash. They want serfdom here with Americans as corporate slaves to the rich. We need a candidate like Franklin and from the pool running on the Republican as well as the Democratic ticket, only Kucinich comes the closest. No one has bought him out yet. The rest are all lapping at the feet of the rich in this country.
Highways and bridges were started by Franklin and financed by Federal money. We need Federal money to rebuild America's infrastructure. STOP THE WAR IN IRAQ and INVEST IN AMERICA!!!
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» The Rich 'Highwaymen' are already here to save our roads!
Posted by: militaryhater
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Posted by: pg on Aug 3, 2007 11:14 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Minnesota has the 11th highest tax burden in the US.
A better question would be:
" What members of the Minneapolis legislature diverted infrastructure money funds from taxpayer dollars to the general fund where it could be spent on other things?"
But Mssr. Holland would not really want his readers to dig in to the truth of that matter or what kind of pork might have been stuffed into the vetoed spending bills (by either party)
No...better to use a tragedy to further an agenda.
Gross
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» you are incorrect
Posted by: dover23
» RE: Civics lesson
Posted by: chaoslegs
» RE: Civics lesson
Posted by: pg
» Come on pig: The veto idiot, the veto! We need a veto proof majority just like the nation.
Posted by: johngary66
» pig: don't talk about things you obviously know nothing about. Minneapolis legislature?
Posted by: johngary66
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Posted by: NumberSix on Aug 3, 2007 11:30 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
He'd always tell us his stories, how food was scarce, this was scarce, how everything was hellish, considering, as he once said "They put every goddamned thing into weapons, weapons and more weapons. Not tractors, factories, roads, schools, power, stores, whatever. Just shit to roll out to show off to the West."
I now have to wonder, as we've lost touch over time, is what he told us about to come true and here? Has the US become USSR II?
Effing amazing, it is, then: We spend trillions on weapons, weapons, more weapons, but not a damned dime on health, roads, bridges, power, food, water, oh, just the normal stuff a society needs to get through the daily grind. Meanwhile, like the old Soviets, our loving government is dancing all around the world, bullying nations into believing that capitalism is so much better than communism ever was, but leaving out the details about who's really running it, and how you can never get ahead.
Ironic. The Soviets preached the gospel of Marx, we run around preaching the gospel of Friedman. And we both love to meddle, meddle and meddle.
And yes, all that insanity caused the USSR to implode, leaving behind a loose association of countries STILL picking up the mess once called The Soviet Union.
One then wonders, as we seem to be playing copycat, what's the timetable like for our own implosion?
Answer: Not goddamned long, obviously.
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Posted by: zooeyhall on Aug 3, 2007 11:57 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
However, there is an even darker ideology behind the conservative lassaiz-faire attitude. It is a "let them die" principle that really motivates these Republican conservative COC types. They have an attitude towards the unwashed masses that would have done Marie Antionette and early 19th century British industrial owners proud!
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» as opposed to say, the Clinton administration?
Posted by: dover23
» RE: that's foreign policy! Not even the same thing
Posted by: Ghoulman
» RE: that's foreign policy! Not even the same thing
Posted by: dover23
» RE: as opposed to say, say what?
Posted by: gregii
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Posted by: tap17x on Aug 3, 2007 12:18 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: owlsliveintrees on Aug 3, 2007 12:22 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Let's relax a second
Posted by: tjg1984
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Posted by: Pat Kittle on Aug 3, 2007 3:41 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Excerpt:
Our brief "age of oil" has enabled our population to grow to horrific proportions, and now that oil is obviously running out, our oil-based infrastructure is falling into disrepair. Surprise, surprise!
It's common knowledge to anyone who pays attention that these things would start happening. We built all this crap in the service of a bloated population that far overshot its sustainable size. Now we're trying to steal Iraq's oil to keep the charade going a little longer. Surprise, surprise, a Malthusian resource war!! When we learn we can't just keep stealing the rest of the world's resources, we're going to have a very rude awakening, of which you just had a very small sampling.
You have only yourself to blame for that. I tried my best to warn ya.
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Posted by: yellow on Aug 3, 2007 4:00 PM
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Posted by: YogiBear on Aug 3, 2007 4:11 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Grover Norquiest: 'My goal is to cut government in half in 25 years, to get it down to the size where we can drown it in a bathtub."
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» RE: They said it -- :-) N/m
Posted by: Pat Kittle
» It's about priorities, not size.
Posted by: tjg1984
» I'm curious about the rating this comment received.
Posted by: tjg1984
» rating this comment
Posted by: YogiBear
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Posted by: InsertNameHere on Aug 3, 2007 6:05 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We have to (fail) to build them over there, so we can't fund them over here.
The more I read, the more I learn that the financial system we have defended steadfastly is the greatest Ponzi scheme ever perpetrated. It has gone on for hundreds of years, and no matter how many people are crushed by it, we still fall all over each other to throw our paltry earnings at it, hoping to do better than someone else.
I may have to refrain from the news for awhile, I'm getting to the same point I was when I started reading about the assault on Fallujah...A constant, gnawing, nauseous contempt for our species.
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» I respectfully disagree -- the "greatest Ponzi scheme ever perpetuated" is...
Posted by: Pat Kittle
» I loved your first sentence.
Posted by: tjg1984
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Posted by: eosrk on Aug 3, 2007 6:27 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: eosrk on Aug 3, 2007 6:31 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...They got their wish!!!
Only difference that bathtub is the size of the Mississippii with a piece of 35W inside of it.....and it already drowned some people......too bad it wasn't them guys whom wanted it.
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» Don't believe Bush's lies.
Posted by: tjg1984
» To the person/people who rated this comment a "1"
Posted by: tjg1984
» RE: To the person/people who rated this comment a "1"
Posted by: gregii
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Posted by: eosrk on Aug 3, 2007 6:36 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: sofla100 on Aug 3, 2007 8:28 PM
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Posted by: FURonnie on Aug 4, 2007 11:34 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» I won't miss the 'W' stickers or those insipid ribbon magnets
Posted by: chief of okeefe
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Posted by: pleaseplanttrees on Aug 4, 2007 12:03 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It seems they only teach one business model to the CEO's in their ivy league halls.
In order to walk away with the largest Golden parachute possible follow this plan to the letter.
1. First lay-off workers in mass as this pleases wall street and immediately increases the TEMPORARY bottom line. Employee moral does not matter as the average American will only complain and then look for a lower wage job or two elsewhere to keep paying the debt they have inevitably charged up to maintain their comfortable lifestyle.
2. Force remaining workers to increase productivity or be fired. This works beautifully in the short term as well.
3. Tell buyers to buy cheaper ingredients for our products and start massive advertizing campaign to claim product has been improved.
4. Increase price of product while offering less of it and tell the marketing department to put the 33% bigger or more label on the front. The average American will never know about the law we paid for through lobbying that will protect us from misleading advertizing because we do not specify more or bigger then what.
5. Tell our mechanical engineers to design the most inferior products using planned obsolessence to increase the bottom line and give us a better way to project future earnings.
6. Instruct our chemical engineers to put additives in our food products that supress the body's natural ability to feel full while simultaneously increasing the urge to eat so we sell more food.
7. Outsourse customer service department and make sure it operates on a skeleton crew. Customer satisfaction does not matter because the average American will only complain then get easily discouraged yet continue self-destruction consumerism because it is all they know.
Short term profits will skyrocket sending the stock through the roof make sure you get paid in stock options. Move on to next company after you have ruined it start over with another because short sighted plan only works for a couple years. Be sure to cash out stocks before it crashes.
Bush and Cheney have ran this country into the ground using the completely discredited trickle down and deregulate everything theory. It is massively irresponsible to trust insanely profit-minded individuals to regulate themselves and hide behind corporate entities to escape prosecution.
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» Oh i forgot to break the unions#8
Posted by: pleaseplanttrees
» RE: Let's end the myth that the we should ruin,opps i mean run the government like a business
Posted by: richholland
Comments are closed-
Posted by: WhatNow? on Aug 4, 2007 3:33 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I find it strange Mr. Holland would mention small government ideology when he seems to be trying to be critical of bush/reagan fiscal policies, when they presided over the largest increases of government spending and personel. As a country we would probably do better with a smaller government especially if the government had it's priorities straight. Instead of the massive spending on weapons and war, a wise allocation of resources towards things like infrastructure, education, health care, food, clothing and shelter would promote the general welfare of the US much better than any imperialist's dreams of full spectrum dominance.
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» RE: Of course it's ideology.
Posted by: richholland
Comments are closed-
Posted by: richholland on Aug 5, 2007 4:41 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The system is partly a private company but under control of the European States.
The taxautorities reward with taxreduction the use of public transportation.
And remember a gallon gas costs allready $ 8,
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Posted by: OhioPatriot on Aug 5, 2007 9:16 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Answer; Obviously demolition charges were used.
Why was the schoolbus saved?
Answer: Bush likes school children (remember 911).HMMMM
Big oil cannot deliver oil up river for months: proof positive that the motive was higher gas prices to line the pockets of Bush and and Company.
Missing construction worker was actually federal agent demolition expert now living comfortably in Argentina.
If you watch the fall frame by frame you will see Ann Coulter and Bill Oreilly junping into the mississippi seconds before explosion in wetsuits holding suspicious BIG RED BUTTON marked with word DETONATOR.
Fuck that, frames 23 thru 87 depicting the above have mysteriously disappeared after federal agents visited Twin Cities: proof positive of Govt. Coverup.
And the big one: I know it was hot that day but WAS IT HOT ENOUGH TO MELT STEEL? HA GOTCHA,
Just thought I would kick off the next liberal witch hunt.
(let the insanity begin at looseminds OOPS loosechange,com)
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» RE: Call loosechange, demolition charges were used
Posted by: FURonnie
» The first time some Repub jack%^&*ss says he thinks "terrorists" did it....
Posted by: chief of okeefe
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Posted by: gregii on Aug 7, 2007 12:43 PM
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Posted by: chief of okeefe on Aug 9, 2007 5:32 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But there is no "thrill" in boring tasks like fixing bridges or tunnels or roads. Or providing catastrophic medical coverage for working people. That stuff is for wimps.
So trillions more for wars on end, but nothing left, not even a measily few millions, for our infrastructure.
One thing is for sure, the "terrorists" do not need to go after our infrastructure. Bush and his drone army are taking care of destroying that.
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Posted by: jbunke on Aug 14, 2007 6:26 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: HeroesAll on Aug 3, 2007 12:25 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's also part of the worship of the 'hidden hand of the market', since some people (largely Republicans and idiots) seem to believe that said hidden hand is all-powerful and perfect. Rather like a 20th century god.
Another instance you could have mentioned, Joshua, is the power failures in the north-east a couple of years ago. I can't remember exactly when, but I do recall the panic, because of course the first finger was pointed at terr'rists. I also seem to recall that life actually improved in some respects for some people, as neighbourhoods started to work together and organise to help each other.
in every other country, citizens understand that their society is as good as they make it, while many of ours seem to believe that we're a leading nation according to some divine plan and no amount of bone-headed governance and skewed priorities can ever change that fact.
Sadly, I hear this sort of nonsense frequently. America can do no wrong, and is best at everything, apparently, regardless of the evidence. It's a bit sad in some ways: at least England knew when their moment of glory was over, coming as it did after the devastation of World War II.
There is a little light over here, though. Our Prime Monster, John Howard The Weasel, is suffering a little in the polls (although alas he's never fallen as far as George Bush, probably because he's a more cunning politician).
And since we have an election coming up soon-ish, Howard and his government are splashing around the cash like toddlers in the bath. Sadly, it's not doing them much good: the electorate has become a bit blase about handouts, and they're now less than thrilled about Howard. One of his little tricks recently backfired, which gave me no end of joy: he announced money for a new hospital in a marginal seat (quelle surprise), and was instantly beseiged by all the other desperate hospitals clamoring for funding. He sent out his Health Minister to tell them there'd be no more money, of course, and everyone's a bit sour, given that the Howard government has done the same stupid "fiscal responsibility" aka "complete tight-arse except in marginal seats" act for years now. Our infrastructure is in much the same state as yours, and people have finally started to notice.
It's pretty basic stuff, though: governments are tasked with maintaining the smooth functioning of society, and that includes infrastructure. It ain't exciting, but it's necessary.
By the bye, how much has been spent so far on the Iraq war crime? Do the relatives of those who died think that the money has been better spent in Iraq than it could have been in America?
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» Try visiting sometime!
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» Try thinking sometime!
Posted by: HeroesAll
» Thank you for not visiting
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» That is so funny coming from you dino! You live here and don't have a clue.
Posted by: johngary66
» How dare you...
Posted by: gregii
» RE: Try visiting sometime!
Posted by: Curio
» RE: Try visiting sometime!
Posted by: Suz
» RE: Try visiting sometime!
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Try visiting sometime!
Posted by: Suz
» RE: Try visiting sometime!
Posted by: babs
» RE: Try visiting sometime!
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Try visiting sometime!
Posted by: maxloen
» RE: Try visiting sometime!
Posted by: Nedtheredhead
» RE: Try visiting sometime!
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Try visiting sometime!
Posted by: Nedtheredhead
» RE: Try visiting sometime!
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Try visiting sometime!
Posted by: Nedtheredhead
» There will be spin for more "TOLL ROADS". Federal legislation has ALREADY been passed and
Posted by: albrechtkrausse
» That's not a bad thing, you know...
Posted by: karma_ran_over_dogma
» 'Gas Tax' is a myth. Normal taxes and bonds used. Private roads and bridges are about as Un-American
Posted by: albrechtkrausse
» "When the bridge is paid off the toll is erased." - not often
Posted by: karma_ran_over_dogma
» RE: "When the bridge is paid off the toll is erased." - not often. That is the problem.
Posted by: albrechtkrausse
» RE: "When the bridge is paid off the toll is erased." - not often. That is the problem.
Posted by: karma_ran_over_dogma
» Roads are for EVERYONE, not just the rich or the corporations. They are a 'PUBLIC GOOD'
Posted by: albrechtkrausse
» Excellent point, Albrech, I believe the same way..... freedom of movement WAS one of those great...
Posted by: Prophit0
» RE: it is a very bad thing
Posted by: gregii
» Make that "TROLL ROADS"
Posted by: hagwind
» RE: There will be spin for more "TOLL ROADS". Federal legislation has ALREADY been passed and
Posted by: momly
» Actually, it was a good article...... now the point, however, about small gov advocates....
Posted by: Prophit0
Comments are closed-
Posted by: ahmlco on Aug 3, 2007 12:27 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
All governments have a budget and a finite tax base from which to draw it. The author seems to assume, however, that you can draw an endless supply of golden eggs from the public "goose" to spend as you wish. And if that doesn't work, well, we'll just cut the goose open to get even more.
But we all know the moral of that story, don't we?
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» RE: Conservative... or liberal?
Posted by: richholland
» RE: Conservative... or liberal?
Posted by: ahmlco
» RE: Conservative... or liberal?
Posted by: newtype_alpha
» Republican Governor Vetoed Infrastructure Bill
Posted by: LeaderofMen
» RE: Conservative... or liberal?
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Conservative... or liberal?
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» "conservatives" are spending MUCH more than the so-called "liberals". In addition to the
Posted by: albrechtkrausse
» RE: Conservative... or liberal?
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Conservative... or liberal?
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Conservative... or liberal?
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» Robert Byrd
Posted by: apophenia_monkey
» RE: Conservative... or liberal?
Posted by: SatanicJamboree
» Well actually satan, dino and albrecht read rethug talking points. Their not allowed to think.
Posted by: johngary66
» RE: Well actually satan, dino and albrecht read rethug talking points. Their not allowed to think.
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» What can I say dino, I was on a roll?
Posted by: johngary66
» RE: Demos largest pork in congress?
Posted by: gregii
» RE: Your tax breaks hard at work here.
Posted by: Sushi
» Yes, we know the moral of that story, lets say it out loud........
Posted by: Prophit0
Comments are closed-
Posted by: talkville on Aug 3, 2007 12:29 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This bridge, as I understand, is approximately 40 years old. It can only be hoped that a vigorous and sustained effort is made to obtain the documentation and paper-work as to those involved in the original construction and the work-orders and plans of those "outsourced" contractors who performed the work. Given the relatively short span of existence of this bridge, documentation should be readily available. It's time to hold those involved in the palpably shoddy construction of this bridge to account. And, as I understand from a report on news, Minnesota is among the HIGHEST in maintenance and public works provision. Condolences to those who lost family members, neighbors, friends in Minnesota.
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» DON'T FIX the bridges. How about producing and buying locally? One of the main reasons
Posted by: albrechtkrausse
» RE: DON'T FIX the bridges. How about producing and buying locally? One of the main reasons
Posted by: kamcallen
» Look at the FACTS, not propaganda.
Posted by: albrechtkrausse
» RE: Look at the FACTS, not propaganda.
Posted by: babs
» Albrecht likes to go way back to obfuscate the issue. I'm surprised he hasn't brought up...
Posted by: johngary66
» I can't believe you don't get it (Yes, I think you are prevaricating)
Posted by: gregii
» RE: "Creative" Destruction
Posted by: timebomb734
» Sorry timebomb734, but it is all about politics
Posted by: gregii
Comments are closed-
Posted by: richholland on Aug 3, 2007 1:20 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
in 1989 I visited Praque and surroundings besides shabby houses many highways had a good quality.
And the people had free education and free health care.
In Europe and Australie we combine Capitalisme with Socialisme.
Capitalisme is evil and only works for the happy few. Socialisme doesnot work.
Is there any hope for the USA??????
Probably if you donot make wars and use the money for your country.
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» RE: the result of propaganda
Posted by: talkville
» RE: the result of propaganda
Posted by: hagwind
» RE: the result of propaganda
Posted by: talkville
» RE: the result of propaganda
Posted by: Earthling
» RE: the result of propaganda
Posted by: talkville
» RE: the result of propaganda...
Posted by: Pirate1
» RE: the result of propaganda...
Posted by: hagwind
» RE: the result of propaganda...
Posted by: Nedtheredhead
» 1 bridge a week fails in US; anyone know the rate elsewhere?
Posted by: Beck
» RE: 1 bridge a week fails in US; anyone know the rate elsewhere?
Posted by: Earthling
» RE: 1 bridge a week fails in US; anyone know the rate elsewhere?
Posted by: Nedtheredhead
Comments are closed-
» RE: eminds my of...
Posted by: talkville
Comments are closed-
Posted by: adp3d on Aug 3, 2007 3:58 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: shangrilalad on Aug 3, 2007 4:10 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Disintegrating Infrastructure
Conservative Ideology is the same as Mafia Ideology, it’s all about corruption and death. Both are criminal enterprises that prey on people, and it’s only the scope of the two enterprises that differ. The Mafia sells heroin and Conservatives sell endless war. War is where the BIG BUCKS are made. The Mafia sells euphoria, and Conservatives sell fear, both are destructive, but which is worse?
Collapsing bridges are the least of our Disintegrating Infrastructure, the collapsing standards of living for middleclass Americans is worse. Conservatives have been waging race and class wars for generations, with great success, and they have destroyed our national cohesion for profit and power. Our country and people are being cannibalized by vicious degenerates who greedily eat their own children. Something that even the Mafia doesn’t do.
.
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» But There Were SO Many Other Things to Do...
Posted by: Gravitas
» RE: Disintegrating Infrastructure
Posted by: Pirate1
Comments are closed-
Posted by: reinaldok on Aug 3, 2007 4:54 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Iraq, we might have some cash left to attempt to fix up our decrepit basic installations?
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» don't forget the people....
Posted by: ellie
» RE: don't forget the people....
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: Iraq and the bridge
Posted by: Pirate1
» OH PLEASE.
Posted by: timebomb734
» Both the chimp and pawlenty have neglected our infrastructure!
Posted by: johngary66
» RE: Both the chimp and pawlenty have neglected our infrastructure!
Posted by: timebomb734
» RE: Both the chimp and pawlenty have neglected our infrastructure!
Posted by: johngary66
» RE: Both the chimp and pawlenty have neglected our infrastructure!
Posted by: gregii
» Restoring full taxes for the rich...
Posted by: Earthling
Comments are closed-
Posted by: nor cal surfer on Aug 3, 2007 5:05 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
isn't that about what we will have sunk into Iraq before Bush is perp-flown to the Haque? we're already at a half trillion, matching the adjusted cost of the 13 year war in Viet Nam.
isn't that about what we could have earned by legallizing and taxing marijuana and prostitution in 2000?
isn't that what we could have allocated away from the Military-Industrial complex in an afternoon?
the proverbial forest has already been clear cut; the sheeple are shaded but by one tree: their ignorance.
(note to self: most reading this are the choir, not sheeple)
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» RE: conservative impact
Posted by: ALANHESTER
Comments are closed-
Posted by: PJT on Aug 3, 2007 5:11 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Don't forget interest, they CHARGED All that Stuff! NM
Posted by: Gravitas
» RE: Dope slap time
Posted by: Ratskii
» RE: Twins Stadium
Posted by: chaoslegs
» RE: Dope slap time
Posted by: peacemama
» RE: Dope slap time
Posted by: peacemama
» Now slap the dope
Posted by: gregii
» RE: Dope slap time
Posted by: ALANHESTER
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Gravitas on Aug 3, 2007 5:14 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is a truly profound observation! I think I am going to use this quote (duly noted of course) as an essay question!
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» I loved this point, too.
Posted by: porgygirl
» RE: I loved this point, too.
Posted by: karma_ran_over_dogma
» RE: I loved this point, too.
Posted by: phatkhat
» RE: I loved this point, too.
Posted by: Blade
» Bring back the trains!
Posted by: dadux
» RE: piphany
Posted by: bcgirl125
Comments are closed-
Posted by: LMNOP on Aug 3, 2007 5:16 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Who isn't?
But note the use of the word "conservative". It could have been "Republican" or "neoconservative".
"Republican isn't the best word because the Democrats, though less so perhaps than the Republicans, are conservatives, too, and, if not actively complicit, they're at least passively guilty as well for doing nothing and for standing for nothing.
"Neocon" is probably the best word. I don't mind derogating the word "conservative, but it's a little too broad for the present purpose as there is a type of conservative (no telling how few are left since their presence can't be felt in national politics) who would not let America rot.
This is the pathological, conscience-free type of conservatism that controls America (and both parties), which has just one, non-competing value: the lust for power and money. Even the very survival of their grandchildren and the earth itself is not a brake on these people's predation on the rest of us and exploitation of the earth. Literally: one value, never mitigated by any other idea or feeling.
That's the only kind of conservative thinking that most of us have ever seen, so "conservative" substitutes nicely for "neocon" in most contexts, offending maybe eight or ten people who are decent conservatives (where are you all? if you respect the Constitution, you should be fighting this monster with us).
One other word to consider using is "corporatist", which says it all, even implying fascist without overtly saying so. Also, it's easier to see the Democrats' conservatism and complicity in creating a corporatocracy when you look at their corporate ties.
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» Good point, but remember this is about competence
Posted by: ReallyBearish
» I don't think it's about competence. It's about dominion.
Posted by: LMNOP
» Bush was the perfect puppet for Corporate America! Dumb as a rock and unquestioning.
Posted by: johngary66
» RE: Nomenclature
Posted by: SatanicJamboree
» RE: Nomenclature
Posted by: Pirate1
» RE: Nomenclature
Posted by: LMNOP
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Conservasaurus on Aug 3, 2007 5:24 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Josh, you are really reaching on this one.
I have visions of you sitting up all nite saying there MUST be someway we can spin this as anti conservative...
Bigger government will make us all safer???.. please!!!
I propose you take a poll and see how many liberals were driving across the bridge at the moment it collapsed.. you might find LIBERALS are at fault!
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» RE: a long nite spinning!
Posted by: marid
» RE: a long nite spinning!
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» Says the king the conservative spin
Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: a long nite spinning!
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: a long nite spinning!
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: a long nite spinning!
Posted by: SatanicJamboree
» RE: a long nite spinning!
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» Josh, I don't think slugs realize they leave a trail. My apology to slugs.
Posted by: johngary66
» RE: a long nite spinning!
Posted by: SatanicJamboree
» LOL
Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: a long nite spinning!
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: a long nite spinning!
Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: a long nite spinning!
Posted by: ordaj
» Ban him
Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: Ban him
Posted by: SatanicJamboree
» RE: Ban him
Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: Ban him
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: a long nite spinning! yes, it is. How does smaller government solve this, again?
Posted by: Beck
» RE: a long nite spinning! yes, it is. How does smaller government solve this, again?
Posted by: SatanicJamboree
» RE: a long nite spinning!
Posted by: ALANHESTER
Comments are closed-
Posted by: marid on Aug 3, 2007 5:25 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Repairing the bridge adds to it, new cars adds to it, casket sales, lawyers fees, plane traffic for news anchors, food and water consumed by rescue workers, pay for the rescuers, equipment rentals, and all the other myriad of things that this tragedy will set off will boost our GDP. And so in the eyes of Wall Street and the economists we will do better as a nation.
For Pete's sake when will we get off this bus to the insane asylum and realize that our people's quality of life has little or nothing to do with the GDP.
Remember the true mission of govt, to provide for the good of the people and the welfare of the country as a whole.
The Constitution has been changed to read "We the Corporation", when will We the People finally look up and realize they have been shearing us and sending us to slaughter for years. The Corpse rule all.
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» Excellent point
Posted by: HeroesAll
» Hurricanes & earthquakes "help" the economy too!
Posted by: karma_ran_over_dogma
» RE: Ahh, but remember!
Posted by: TheNamelessCity
» Read the preamble to the Constitution
Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: ead the preamble to the Constitution
Posted by: dangerouslysane
» Disasters and GDP
Posted by: tjg1984
Comments are closed-
Posted by: marxalot on Aug 3, 2007 5:31 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Cronies Gone Wild
Posted by: ALANHESTER
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Bev on Aug 3, 2007 5:53 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: We need to dump both parties that just want to politicize on tragedies and DO NOTHING ABOUT THEM!
Posted by: freethink7
» Get off the short bus
Posted by: Spot
» we need an alternative. any ideas?
Posted by: sphoenix
» We all want to change the world
Posted by: LMNOP
» ideas?
Posted by: dover23
» bev: confess. It's an obvious rethug ploy t blame both parties. If you really buy into it, well.....
Posted by: johngary66
Comments are closed-
Posted by: freethink7 on Aug 3, 2007 6:05 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We the people are sick and tired of funneling money needed to rebuild our roads, bridges and our infrastructure into your illegal unethical wars.
All profits made from unscrupulous war profiteers/contractors must now be used to rebuild our own country and all its crumpling bridges and roads. Oh, and you can pay reparations to the families of the bridge collapse with your filthy blood money.
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Posted by: ProgressiveManiac on Aug 3, 2007 6:23 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So, perhaps God will re-build the bridge in Minnesota and the levees in New Orleans. Or perhaps the private sector will step in and do a good efficient job of it. All we need is to have more faith in these magic solutions.
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» When I read "Faith-based Infrastructure"...
Posted by: tjg1984
» RE: When I read "Faith-based Infrastructure"...
Posted by: ProgressiveManiac
» RE: Faith-based Infrastructure
Posted by: ALANHESTER
Comments are closed-
Posted by: R.I.P. on Aug 3, 2007 6:27 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's bad engineering to satisfy economic priorities .... Google "bridge disasters" and you'll find the same story again and again. Rip Tragle
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» Then How Do You Explain
Posted by: Gravitas
» RE: Then How Do You Explain
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» First Ventura, then Pawlenty were NO NEW TAXES idiots. They deserve some of the blame.
Posted by: johngary66
» Engineering bad economics
Posted by: eddie torres
» RE: ngineering bad economics
Posted by: dover23
» Alternate interpretation
Posted by: eddie torres
» RE: Alternate interpretation
Posted by: dover23
» 'Big' isn't the same as 'fraudulent'
Posted by: eddie torres
» In Minnesota, polls continuously supported higher taxes for transportation.
Posted by: johngary66
Comments are closed-
Posted by: VannaLaRoche on Aug 3, 2007 6:33 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: That other catastrophe
Posted by: phatkhat
» RE: That other catastrophe
Posted by: Conservasaurus
Comments are closed-
Posted by: shangrilalad on Aug 3, 2007 6:36 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Step Up.
The next thing you hear might be Rush and O’Reilly blaming liberals for blowing up the Minnesota bridge. Don’t laugh, they’ve said worse.
Murdoch is a fascist, his newspapers and networks are fascist, his “Anchors” are fascist, and it’s all fascist all the time.
WTF!
Democratic Representative didn’t notice when fascists started taking over the air waves, when “conservatives” packed the courts and every other agency of government with “good little Germans,” and when the “Decider” urinated on the Constitution and balance of powers we once held dear?
Somebody better step up and tell America what’s happening, because we’ve never been in deeper excrement. We’ve got people in power who are changing our form of government by Crime & Decree, and few of our “Representatives” seem to notice or care.
Americans are not cowards. We’ll fight anybody, anytime for dissin’ us, but someone has to tell us the truth so we know who or what to fight. Right now we have anarchy and paralysis, caused by a dictatorial president and no organized opposition from any of our Democratic “leaders.”
Step up and tell America what’s happening..
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» Yup! And don't forget the obesity "crisis."
Posted by: Gravitas
» RE: Yup! And don't forget the obesity "crisis."
Posted by: phatkhat
Comments are closed-
Posted by: sausage on Aug 3, 2007 6:39 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Of course, for nearly thirly years, from Reagan to Bush II the Nightmare, our free-market fundamentalists in Congress, on both side of the aisle, have been singing the praises of private efficiency over governmental incompetency and slothful government bureaucrats.
Yet does anyone ever look at private efficiency?
I seems to me that every time a public enterprise is privatized the following scenario takes place: New private owner fires half of work force, coerces remaining workers to work longer hours, busts unions, lowers pay; cuts corners on maintenance in effort to increase profit margine, which already took a jump due to lower wages; after several years of profit taking and physical neglect, private owners declares enterprise unprofitable and walks away, leaving government to pick up pieces.
It's too soon to tell, but I will wager that the State of Indiana will be facing a similar situation in twenty or thirty years.
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» It will happen. I'm sure of it. No reason to talk 'privatisation' cause its already done!!
Posted by: albrechtkrausse
» RE: It will happen. I'm sure of it. No reason to talk 'privatisation' cause its already done!!
Posted by: kamcallen
» Absolutely true!!!!!!!
Posted by: pleaseplanttrees
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Posted by: jmndodge on Aug 3, 2007 6:45 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: More to come
Posted by: phatkhat
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Posted by: ogman on Aug 3, 2007 6:49 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Our economy is crashing under the weight of thieves who steal and then respond that their victims simply should have been more careful. Our laws now provide cover for this thievery and punish those who object to being ripped off. Fixing bridges won't buy anyone a new yacht, so you can bet it will still be a low priority, even after this tragedy.
Insurance companies are some of the worst thieves. No doubt they will respond to this incident by canceling the policies of anyone who has to cross a bridge to get to work. These same companies have already destroyed the health care system. I'm pretty sure we can solve the entire health care "crisis" by simply jailing the lot of them and distributing their bloated wealth to the medical community so they can actually provide MEDICAL services.
The wealthy have demanded and received tax cuts. In return they promised more jobs and better services. None of those things have materialized. Personally, I'm ready to vote for the first candidate that shouts "No New Tax Cuts!" Privatization lines the pockets of the rich but solves no problems. What kind of fool does one have to be to think that a corporate mindset will support the needs of a society? Bridges and roads and health care are not profitable, rather they are necessities. They don't increase stock prices or provide golden parachutes, instead they support a healthy and safe society. No corporation is ever going to solve the day to day problems faced by a democratic society. As has often been said, "A corporation is not a democracy." Why then are we letting them run this one?
We live in a country that creates nothing. Today's new wealth is created by lies and theft, by cutting necessities, and by taking jobs away from people who need them to support their families. Corporate leaders mismanage their companies and then punish workers who had no control over the bungling boardroom. Lives are lost on a daily basis so that the wealthy can buy bigger cars and bigger houses and ravenously devour far more than their fair share of our resources. Believe me, they will continue preying upon us just as long as we fail to defend ourselves.
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» Tragic sense of political life
Posted by: wrd
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Posted by: pzzp on Aug 3, 2007 7:07 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This just in:
The TRIAA (Terrorist Reporting Industry Association of America) quotes witnesses as saying they observed a robed man sawing through girders under the bridge just hours before the collapse. President George W. Bush, speaking through a muted microphone so people could "read my lips", indicated that new legislation will mandate Viagra be added to cement in order to "stiffen it up". Pfizer stock shot up at the news and the offices of the Carlyle Group were swamped with buy orders from members of the Cabinet and Congress.
Vice President Dick Cheney said: "My heart goes out to the taxpayers the cuts to whose taxes and resulting shortage of infrastructure funds is now causing them grief and guilt. It is not easy to have such a tragedy on your conscience". "It's a good time to go shopping" pipes in President Bush. Continues Cheney "I also appreciate the diversion this incident offers from the drudgery of dealing with the war in Iraq. I am pleased to announce also that I have awarded the bridge reconstruction contract to Halliburton last night. Blackwater Security personnel are standing by to monitor the situation and prevent looting of the submerged vehicles in the river."
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» RE: Republican or Democratic bridge?
Posted by: hagwind
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Posted by: chaoslegs on Aug 3, 2007 7:11 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I agree with Joshua on the overall point of this article. Tompaine.com has taken to counting sinkholes caused by leaky water/sewer systems to highlight the crumbling infrastructure.
More funding would be very welcome by Minnesota, or at least Twin City residents. Even the Chamber of Commerce was calling for it, as the growing congestion hurts business, especially transportation dependent business. However, more funding would not necessarily have prevented this. If the MN DOT engineers give it a pass (or pass enough) then they won't allocate funds to fix something they don't see as a problem.
Now the lack of funding has lead to what I have called the 'beg and spend' plan for the Crosstown (I-35W and MN Hwy 62) construction which was delayed by a year because the original proposal had the construction companies front the money and we would pay them when federal funds came down the pipeline in laters years. I have also called this the Wimpy method of funding, 'I will pay you Tuesday for a highway today.'
I would recommend people read some of John Gunyou's article/columns on governing. He is the city manager of Minnetonka, and was Finance Commissioner for the state of Minnesota under Republican Governor (moderate) Arne Carlson. So for those conservatives trolling this site, he is a Republican.
Some thoughts from a person that has driven across that bridge 100s of times.
P.S. I think the Big Dig mention was a disservice to the point of this article as that section was constructed in 1999. I thought the point was crumbling infrastructure, not properly designed infrastructure (although cost cutting because of lower tax base can lead to that).
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» Playing hardball with other people's money
Posted by: eddie torres
» RE: Twins stadium
Posted by: chaoslegs
» If corporate welfare = efficient use of public resources...
Posted by: eddie torres
» RE: Are you thinking I don't agree with you - No Post
Posted by: chaoslegs
» Nope. Just finding it difficult to stop typing...
Posted by: eddie torres
» RE: Twins stadium
Posted by: timebomb734
» RE: Twins stadium
Posted by: chaoslegs
» RE: I live less than 3 miles from the bridge
Posted by: ALANHESTER
Comments are closed-
Posted by: sliver on Aug 3, 2007 7:19 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I know a government engineer who said there is a lot of pressure on them to stay under budget. They keep asking for more money, which they know is needed for safe roads, but they never get enough. I would bet that the engineers who inspected the bridge could have condemned it, but that would have busted their budget, so they tried to get by with it.
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» RE: Standing on rubble
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» The idiot chimp is coming to Mpls. tommorro to declare a national catastrophe and martial law.
Posted by: johngary66
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Posted by: VZEQICVA on Aug 3, 2007 7:22 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Not betting AGAINST it, patiently waiting FOR it to happen
Posted by: scheherezade
» "...patiently waiting FOR it to happen" Like global warming, you mean?
Posted by: Sojourner
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Posted by: maxpayne on Aug 3, 2007 7:30 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Tombo on Aug 3, 2007 7:36 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: You got to be kidding me!
Posted by: chaoslegs
» Tombo is doesn't live in Mpls. Nobody here( rethug or dem) would make such a fool remark.
Posted by: johngary66
» RE: Tombo is doesn't live in Mpls. Nobody here( rethug or dem) would make such a fool remark.
Posted by: ALANHESTER
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Posted by: flingus on Aug 3, 2007 8:00 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: P. Hermes on Aug 3, 2007 8:12 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: CJC on Aug 3, 2007 8:13 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The low tax, small government ideology is, sadly, not just a right-wing idea. Almost all Americans subscribe to it one way or another. We firmly believe that responsibility lies with individuals. We generally see government as 'wasteful."
I once was a resident of the ever-so-liberal town of Brookline MA. I happened to live on a street of modest houses in the one Republican ward (of 15 in the town) that happened also to be the wealthiest. There was a public debate about funding for the town parks. The residents of Chestnut Hill were opposed. Well, even if you have a big lawn and a swing set etc etc where will your children be able to play on the town soccer or baseball team if the public parks are a shamble?
What this way of thinking ignores, obviously, is that there are collective risks and collective responsibilities that none of us can manage on our own. Even if the questionable quality of the I35 bridge had been well publicized in Minnesota who can actually take "personal responsibility" never to cross the bridge. Even in the case of Hurricane Katrina there was a lot of public feeling that those residents of New Orleans who didn't flee (never mind that most of them had no way to get out) had only themselves to blame for ending up in the Convention Center or clinging to their roofs.
We need to make every effort to change the conversation. There are many many areas of public life that demand public responsibility. We all need to stop talking about tax cuts and keeping budgets as low as possible and concern ourselves with what needs to get done and how to do it.
We can't have private bridges, roads, levees, tunnels, airports etc etc etc. Toll roads are no answer either as it remains a public responsibility to ensure that public facilities are safe for all of us.
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Posted by: Ratskii on Aug 3, 2007 8:37 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Well the catastrophic collapse did happen -- the highway engineers were wrong. So aside from funding issues there is the matter of whether the calculations and measurements for testing the nations bridges are accurate.
144,000 vehicles a week used this bridge. It would have taken the acknowledgement that there was a major risk for them to have closed it down for 2 to 3 years in order to rebuild it.
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» RE: ratski
Posted by: chaoslegs
» Rat, at least try to get your facts straight. 150,000 to 200,000 cars a DAY used that bridge.
Posted by: johngary66
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Posted by: scheherezade on Aug 3, 2007 8:51 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: sphoenix on Aug 3, 2007 9:09 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Perhaps. And perhaps it has to do with American exceptionalism -- in every other country, citizens understand that their society is as good as they make it, while many of ours seem to believe that we're a leading nation according to some divine plan and no amount of bone-headed governance and skewed priorities can ever change that fact."
....brings me back to repeat it.
Amerika is the new Pax Romana. Just like those Amerikans who believe that our mere existence is divinely ordained..."One nation under God", so too did the Romans feel. That sense of divine nationalism was part of their undoing...although it took the better part of 500 years for Rome to finally unravel, leaving a few meager remnants that actually lasted almost 1000 years.
Here is a quote from Peter Heather in his book, "The Fall of the Roman Empire: A New History of Rome and the Barbarians" (2006): “Indeed, the Roman state saw itself not as just marginally better than those beyond its frontiers - but massively and absolutely superior, because its social order was divinely ordained. This ideology not only made upper-class Romans feel good about themselves, but was part and parcel of the functioning of Empire. “
“The overwhelming implications of this attitude were, first, that conflict should be the normal state of relations between Roman and non-Roman; and second, that the Roman Empire should be victorious in whatever it aspired to. What did divine favour mean, if not security against defeat that the hands of those lacking that divine favour?”
Keeping that in mind...do we see any parallels to the sense of nationalism that is raging in this country, as well as the rhetoric and actions our government and religions are taking in the People's name?
IMO the only way this country...and this world for that matter, will ever heal from this crap is to take religious fervor out of the operations of government. People, of any belief system or religion, need to respect each others differences and stop pretending that they are better than everyone else. As long as there is a sense of elitism, privilege, or divine ordination we will have the problems that we are seeing today.
Let's face facts...Iraq has become a Holy War...Christians/Jews vs. any other belief system in the world. I have heard the fundies calling Muslims servants of the devil. This is not productive debate and will only perpetuate the divisions amongst peoples. These divisions are certainly working very well for some people who see this as an opportunity for self-enrichment. But in the end everyone on earth will be the ultimate losers, and governments and countries will eventually be dissolved, just as happened in old Rome.
I hate to say it but...I hope the dissolution happens sooner rather than later...I would like to help rebuild a better, more sane country...and ultimately world. I just hope I'm still alive to see it happen...
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Posted by: FURonnie on Aug 3, 2007 10:29 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I looked under at the rotting posts and old piers and said any shaker and you'll be of the ground!
A year later I saw this gentleman on TV standing in front of the racked house sitting on the ground. The earthquake which is common in the area knocked it off those sticks. What had been a fairly easy task and moderately priced job turn into an enormous task.
Folks spend money on glamour not infrastructure. We can spend billions on Iraq's rebuild but when it comes to the real needs we fail.
In all probability they could have added some simple steel plates at the digonal braceing junctures and it would have stood at least until we wake up and rebuild our house instead of stealing others.
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» RE: We buy frosting not cake
Posted by: YogiBear
» The steel plates you suggest were an option discussed, but it cost more than cosmetics.
Posted by: johngary66
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Ghoulman on Aug 3, 2007 10:30 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Nice article Josh.
The so called "small government" GOP rhetoric really just means micro-management of large bureaucracies by political officers hand picked to forward the Conservative ideology. These bureaucracies are reduced to an ineffective mess (Bush/Cheney folded FEMA into Homeland Security before Katrina hit... it demonstrates just what I'm saying and what Josh wrote in the article), the money goes to the military industrial complex (where DO Americans think their taxes go anyway?) if not straight to Haliberton Corp. by way of Iraq.
After 9/11 and before Katrina, the top three disasters, experts advised, are a WMD terror attack, an earthquake in California, and the levees breaking in New Orleans. TOP THREE!
There are millions of dedicated government people willing to help Americans and have good ideas and plans to do so... but the Conservative Movement doesn't BELIEVE in those people and worse, they believe bureaucracies are stupid liberal and even evil. Take immigration - many States had years of research and plans to deal with the increase of immigration from Mexico. Washington ignored it and, in need of an issue to attack with, they ignored the State initiatives and created, out of thin air, the FEDERAL immigration debate. If you wanna call the racist trash Lou Dobbs spits out a debate.
The US is a war economy. That's all that's left. when industry disappears (and is outsourced), the dollar falls, and the only ups on the DOW are tech bubbles, the next thing The Powers That Be do is to loot the place.
... no money left for power grids, bridges, highways... oh wait, there's that Ronald Reagan Highway in Alaska that goes to no where and no one uses. What? The entire Republican caucus in Alaska is under investigation for massive corruption? What a frackin' shock. :D
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» you frackin contradict yourself
Posted by: dover23
» RE: you frackin contradict yourself
Posted by: Ghoulman
» RE: you frackin contradict yourself
Posted by: dover23
Comments are closed-
Posted by: militaryhater on Aug 3, 2007 11:13 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Also no one in this country wants to 'finance' transportation which means taxing us at the pumps, raising license renewal tabs or actually going even further, building toll booths at bridges to finance them. Toll booths would hit everyone that uses a bridge or road. Could this be the answer? Chicago uses them with great success. Of course if this were to happen, the rich corporations would try to control this too as I have read our country is moving in this direction. Privatizing our highways and bridges to BIG CORPORATE America so they can take more money from us and get richer on our unhappiness. Not only are they trying to seize our power companies, they want to control all the infrastructure. The more money the Federal Government doesn't give to States, knowing that they will struggle to find the money, the easier it will be for BIG CORPORATIONs to come to the aid of All STATES in our Union offering salvation. They will raise prices even more and milk us until we can't live in this country anymore. The solution is to keep our tax money in this country and no more financing useless wars that only help the rich.
Stopping the WAR MACHINE and staying in our own backyard and taking care of our own people solves this issue as well. I would rather have the money stay in our own country than feeding Haliburton and other rich cronies like disgusting Cheney.
Franklin Delano Roosevelt is the last president to invest in America and Americans. The rich Corporations have slowly riddled away at his good efforts and they our sending us back to the 1929 crash. They want serfdom here with Americans as corporate slaves to the rich. We need a candidate like Franklin and from the pool running on the Republican as well as the Democratic ticket, only Kucinich comes the closest. No one has bought him out yet. The rest are all lapping at the feet of the rich in this country.
Highways and bridges were started by Franklin and financed by Federal money. We need Federal money to rebuild America's infrastructure. STOP THE WAR IN IRAQ and INVEST IN AMERICA!!!
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» The Rich 'Highwaymen' are already here to save our roads!
Posted by: militaryhater
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Posted by: pg on Aug 3, 2007 11:14 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Minnesota has the 11th highest tax burden in the US.
A better question would be:
" What members of the Minneapolis legislature diverted infrastructure money funds from taxpayer dollars to the general fund where it could be spent on other things?"
But Mssr. Holland would not really want his readers to dig in to the truth of that matter or what kind of pork might have been stuffed into the vetoed spending bills (by either party)
No...better to use a tragedy to further an agenda.
Gross
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» you are incorrect
Posted by: dover23
» RE: Civics lesson
Posted by: chaoslegs
» RE: Civics lesson
Posted by: pg
» Come on pig: The veto idiot, the veto! We need a veto proof majority just like the nation.
Posted by: johngary66
» pig: don't talk about things you obviously know nothing about. Minneapolis legislature?
Posted by: johngary66
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Posted by: NumberSix on Aug 3, 2007 11:30 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
He'd always tell us his stories, how food was scarce, this was scarce, how everything was hellish, considering, as he once said "They put every goddamned thing into weapons, weapons and more weapons. Not tractors, factories, roads, schools, power, stores, whatever. Just shit to roll out to show off to the West."
I now have to wonder, as we've lost touch over time, is what he told us about to come true and here? Has the US become USSR II?
Effing amazing, it is, then: We spend trillions on weapons, weapons, more weapons, but not a damned dime on health, roads, bridges, power, food, water, oh, just the normal stuff a society needs to get through the daily grind. Meanwhile, like the old Soviets, our loving government is dancing all around the world, bullying nations into believing that capitalism is so much better than communism ever was, but leaving out the details about who's really running it, and how you can never get ahead.
Ironic. The Soviets preached the gospel of Marx, we run around preaching the gospel of Friedman. And we both love to meddle, meddle and meddle.
And yes, all that insanity caused the USSR to implode, leaving behind a loose association of countries STILL picking up the mess once called The Soviet Union.
One then wonders, as we seem to be playing copycat, what's the timetable like for our own implosion?
Answer: Not goddamned long, obviously.
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Posted by: zooeyhall on Aug 3, 2007 11:57 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
However, there is an even darker ideology behind the conservative lassaiz-faire attitude. It is a "let them die" principle that really motivates these Republican conservative COC types. They have an attitude towards the unwashed masses that would have done Marie Antionette and early 19th century British industrial owners proud!
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» as opposed to say, the Clinton administration?
Posted by: dover23
» RE: that's foreign policy! Not even the same thing
Posted by: Ghoulman
» RE: that's foreign policy! Not even the same thing
Posted by: dover23
» RE: as opposed to say, say what?
Posted by: gregii
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Posted by: tap17x on Aug 3, 2007 12:18 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: owlsliveintrees on Aug 3, 2007 12:22 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Let's relax a second
Posted by: tjg1984
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Posted by: Pat Kittle on Aug 3, 2007 3:41 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Excerpt:
Our brief "age of oil" has enabled our population to grow to horrific proportions, and now that oil is obviously running out, our oil-based infrastructure is falling into disrepair. Surprise, surprise!
It's common knowledge to anyone who pays attention that these things would start happening. We built all this crap in the service of a bloated population that far overshot its sustainable size. Now we're trying to steal Iraq's oil to keep the charade going a little longer. Surprise, surprise, a Malthusian resource war!! When we learn we can't just keep stealing the rest of the world's resources, we're going to have a very rude awakening, of which you just had a very small sampling.
You have only yourself to blame for that. I tried my best to warn ya.
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Posted by: yellow on Aug 3, 2007 4:00 PM
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Posted by: YogiBear on Aug 3, 2007 4:11 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Grover Norquiest: 'My goal is to cut government in half in 25 years, to get it down to the size where we can drown it in a bathtub."
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» RE: They said it -- :-) N/m
Posted by: Pat Kittle
» It's about priorities, not size.
Posted by: tjg1984
» I'm curious about the rating this comment received.
Posted by: tjg1984
» rating this comment
Posted by: YogiBear
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Posted by: InsertNameHere on Aug 3, 2007 6:05 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We have to (fail) to build them over there, so we can't fund them over here.
The more I read, the more I learn that the financial system we have defended steadfastly is the greatest Ponzi scheme ever perpetrated. It has gone on for hundreds of years, and no matter how many people are crushed by it, we still fall all over each other to throw our paltry earnings at it, hoping to do better than someone else.
I may have to refrain from the news for awhile, I'm getting to the same point I was when I started reading about the assault on Fallujah...A constant, gnawing, nauseous contempt for our species.
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» I respectfully disagree -- the "greatest Ponzi scheme ever perpetuated" is...
Posted by: Pat Kittle
» I loved your first sentence.
Posted by: tjg1984
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Posted by: eosrk on Aug 3, 2007 6:27 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: eosrk on Aug 3, 2007 6:31 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...They got their wish!!!
Only difference that bathtub is the size of the Mississippii with a piece of 35W inside of it.....and it already drowned some people......too bad it wasn't them guys whom wanted it.
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» Don't believe Bush's lies.
Posted by: tjg1984
» To the person/people who rated this comment a "1"
Posted by: tjg1984
» RE: To the person/people who rated this comment a "1"
Posted by: gregii
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Posted by: eosrk on Aug 3, 2007 6:36 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: sofla100 on Aug 3, 2007 8:28 PM
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Posted by: FURonnie on Aug 4, 2007 11:34 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» I won't miss the 'W' stickers or those insipid ribbon magnets
Posted by: chief of okeefe
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Posted by: pleaseplanttrees on Aug 4, 2007 12:03 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It seems they only teach one business model to the CEO's in their ivy league halls.
In order to walk away with the largest Golden parachute possible follow this plan to the letter.
1. First lay-off workers in mass as this pleases wall street and immediately increases the TEMPORARY bottom line. Employee moral does not matter as the average American will only complain and then look for a lower wage job or two elsewhere to keep paying the debt they have inevitably charged up to maintain their comfortable lifestyle.
2. Force remaining workers to increase productivity or be fired. This works beautifully in the short term as well.
3. Tell buyers to buy cheaper ingredients for our products and start massive advertizing campaign to claim product has been improved.
4. Increase price of product while offering less of it and tell the marketing department to put the 33% bigger or more label on the front. The average American will never know about the law we paid for through lobbying that will protect us from misleading advertizing because we do not specify more or bigger then what.
5. Tell our mechanical engineers to design the most inferior products using planned obsolessence to increase the bottom line and give us a better way to project future earnings.
6. Instruct our chemical engineers to put additives in our food products that supress the body's natural ability to feel full while simultaneously increasing the urge to eat so we sell more food.
7. Outsourse customer service department and make sure it operates on a skeleton crew. Customer satisfaction does not matter because the average American will only complain then get easily discouraged yet continue self-destruction consumerism because it is all they know.
Short term profits will skyrocket sending the stock through the roof make sure you get paid in stock options. Move on to next company after you have ruined it start over with another because short sighted plan only works for a couple years. Be sure to cash out stocks before it crashes.
Bush and Cheney have ran this country into the ground using the completely discredited trickle down and deregulate everything theory. It is massively irresponsible to trust insanely profit-minded individuals to regulate themselves and hide behind corporate entities to escape prosecution.
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» Oh i forgot to break the unions#8
Posted by: pleaseplanttrees
» RE: Let's end the myth that the we should ruin,opps i mean run the government like a business
Posted by: richholland
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Posted by: WhatNow? on Aug 4, 2007 3:33 PM
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I find it strange Mr. Holland would mention small government ideology when he seems to be trying to be critical of bush/reagan fiscal policies, when they presided over the largest increases of government spending and personel. As a country we would probably do better with a smaller government especially if the government had it's priorities straight. Instead of the massive spending on weapons and war, a wise allocation of resources towards things like infrastructure, education, health care, food, clothing and shelter would promote the general welfare of the US much better than any imperialist's dreams of full spectrum dominance.
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» RE: Of course it's ideology.
Posted by: richholland
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Posted by: richholland on Aug 5, 2007 4:41 AM
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The system is partly a private company but under control of the European States.
The taxautorities reward with taxreduction the use of public transportation.
And remember a gallon gas costs allready $ 8,
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Posted by: OhioPatriot on Aug 5, 2007 9:16 AM
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Answer; Obviously demolition charges were used.
Why was the schoolbus saved?
Answer: Bush likes school children (remember 911).HMMMM
Big oil cannot deliver oil up river for months: proof positive that the motive was higher gas prices to line the pockets of Bush and and Company.
Missing construction worker was actually federal agent demolition expert now living comfortably in Argentina.
If you watch the fall frame by frame you will see Ann Coulter and Bill Oreilly junping into the mississippi seconds before explosion in wetsuits holding suspicious BIG RED BUTTON marked with word DETONATOR.
Fuck that, frames 23 thru 87 depicting the above have mysteriously disappeared after federal agents visited Twin Cities: proof positive of Govt. Coverup.
And the big one: I know it was hot that day but WAS IT HOT ENOUGH TO MELT STEEL? HA GOTCHA,
Just thought I would kick off the next liberal witch hunt.
(let the insanity begin at looseminds OOPS loosechange,com)
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» RE: Call loosechange, demolition charges were used
Posted by: FURonnie
» The first time some Repub jack%^&*ss says he thinks "terrorists" did it....
Posted by: chief of okeefe
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Posted by: gregii on Aug 7, 2007 12:43 PM
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Posted by: chief of okeefe on Aug 9, 2007 5:32 PM
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But there is no "thrill" in boring tasks like fixing bridges or tunnels or roads. Or providing catastrophic medical coverage for working people. That stuff is for wimps.
So trillions more for wars on end, but nothing left, not even a measily few millions, for our infrastructure.
One thing is for sure, the "terrorists" do not need to go after our infrastructure. Bush and his drone army are taking care of destroying that.
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Posted by: jbunke on Aug 14, 2007 6:26 AM
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