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Are the Dead From the Minneapolis Bridge Collapse Victims of Conservative Ideology?

By Joshua Holland, AlterNet. Posted August 3, 2007.


After swallowing 30 years of small-government rhetoric, our infrastructure, once the pride of the developed world, is falling apart around us. We're reaping what we've sown.
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The tragic collapse this week of a stretch of I-35 spanning the Mississippi river in Minnesota was shocking but should come as no surprise. America's core infrastrucure has been falling apart in very visible ways during the past few years. It's a predictable outcome of the rise of "backlash" conservatism; we've swallowed 30 years of small-government rhetoric, and it's led us to a point in which our infrastructure, once the pride of the developed world, is falling apart around us. We're reaping what we've sown.

Minnesota's Republican governor, Tim Pawlenty, reacted to the disaster by calling a press conference and, with a steely determination worthy of Rudy Guiliani, lying to the American people. Pawlenty insisted that inspections in 2005 and 2006 had found no structural problems with the bridge. But the Minneapolis Star-Tribune reported that the bridge "was rated as 'structurally deficient' two years ago and possibly in need of replacement." The bridge was borderline -- with a 50 sufficiency rating; if a bridge scores less than 50, it needs to be replaced.

According to the Pioneer Press, the bridge's suspension system was supposed to receive extra attention with inspections every two years, but the last one had been performed in 2003.

The governor had every reason to obfuscate; in 2005, he vetoed a bipartisan transportation package that would have "put more than $8 billion into highways, city and county roads, and transit over the next decade." At the time, he was applauded by many Republicans for his staunch fiscal "conservatism."

It's too soon to say for sure what caused this latest disaster, but as Stephen Flynn wrote in Popular Mechanics, when all is said and done, "investigators will likely find that two factors contributed to its failure: age and heavy use." Those conditions are anything but isolated:

According to a report card released in 2005 by the American Society of Civil Engineers (ASCE), 160,570 bridges, or just over one-quarter of the nation's 590,750 bridge inventory, were rated structurally deficient or functionally obsolete. The nation's bridges are being called upon to serve a population that has grown from 200 million to over 300 million since the time the first vehicles rolled across the I-35W bridge. Predictably that has translated into lots more cars.
It was the second U.S. bridge collapse this week -- a span in California fell the day before, with far fewer injuries and no loss of life. The tragedy occurred just weeks after an 80-year-old steam pipe in Manhattan blew up, killing one and injuring dozens more. A year earlier, a section of tunnel in Boston collapsed, killing a woman as she drove home. A year before that, hundreds of thousands of Americans became refugees after New Orleans' pitiable levees collapsed -- a graphic illustration of shortsighted public policy if ever there was one. The AFL-CIO estimates that more than one in four roads are in "less than good condition." Minnesota ranks low on their list, with about one in eight failing to make the grade.

It's all part of a larger picture. We have a crumbling power grid and are falling behind the rest of the world in broadband infrastructure. The American Society of Civil Engineers (ASCE) talks of "congested highways, overflowing sewers and corroding bridges" that are "constant reminders of the looming crisis that jeopardizes our nation's prosperity and our quality of life." Every year the engineering society issues a report card grading 15 categories of America's once-premier infrastructure. In 2005, that "core" infrastructure collectively got a "D-," slightly worse than the "D" it received in 2000. Ironically, the nation's bridges received the highest score -- a "C" -- in 2005.

Experts have been warning of our gradually disintegrating infrastructure for years. ASCE's engineers estimate that it would take an investment of $1.6 trillion over the next 10 years to bring it up to modern standards. That investment would create of tens of thousands of decent jobs and, most economists agree, would likely unleash a new wave of productivity growth. But just as Minnesota's Pawlenty vetoed an increase in that state's highway funds so he could play a fiscal conservative in TV commercials, the GOP-controlled Congress rejected a Democratic proposal in 2002 that would have increased highway funding by $4 billion in a straight party-line vote (because they couldn't stand the fact that the bill also called for a minimum wage increase and an extension of unemployment benefits -- ultimately, a pork-laden version with nothing for workers did pass in 2005). Governance, ultimately, is a matter of priorities, and infrastructure takes a back seat.

One of the primary reasons for that is that there aren't organized constituents lobbying for public goods like highways and bridges -- people take those things for granted. A thousand grifters have gained office promising to cut taxes as if they existed in a vacuum, without mentioning the cost; no politician has ever won office promising to keep highways from collapsing on their constituents. For 30 years, we've been told by a series of right-wing snake-oil salesmen that they could deliver more and better public services while constantly cutting the taxes that pay for them, but it was always a fraud. The result is that the United States enjoys the third-lowest tax burden among the 30 most advanced economies as its public spaces gradually come apart at the seams.

I would argue that skimping out on infrastructure investments in the name of a low tax burden is a triumph of ideology over commonsense, but it goes beyond that. Conservative philosophy stresses limited government, not bad government, and nothing can change the fact that the public sector remains the only way to organize collectively when there's no profit involved. So nobody seriously believes that the the hidden hand of capitalism is going to step in and inspect and repair bridges that are open to the public. When lawmakers don't fund that work, they know full well that it won't get done.

What's more, the evidence that infrastructure investments result in increased economic productivity is fairly conclusive; some studies have estimated that every dollar invested in public infrastructure yields 104 percent return through increases in productivity (PDF).

So something more is going on. Stephen Flynn says, "Americans have been squandering the infrastructure legacy bequeathed to us by earlier generations. Like the spoiled offspring of well-off parents, we behave as though we have no idea what is required to sustain the quality of our daily lives."

Perhaps. And perhaps it has to do with American exceptionalism -- in every other country, citizens understand that their society is as good as they make it, while many of ours seem to believe that we're a leading nation according to some divine plan and no amount of bone-headed governance and skewed priorities can ever change that fact.

That's something to ponder as you drive over that bridge or through that tunnel on the way home.
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Joshua Holland is an AlterNet staff writer.

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Another good one, Joshua
[Report this comment]
Posted by: HeroesAll on Aug 3, 2007 12:25 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The drone of politicians bleating "lower taxes" is tiresome enough: the neglect of infrastructure is particularly stupid. Well, infrastructure, health care, social responsibilities, and so on: all the factors that go toward making a society, rather than a gang.

It's also part of the worship of the 'hidden hand of the market', since some people (largely Republicans and idiots) seem to believe that said hidden hand is all-powerful and perfect. Rather like a 20th century god.

Another instance you could have mentioned, Joshua, is the power failures in the north-east a couple of years ago. I can't remember exactly when, but I do recall the panic, because of course the first finger was pointed at terr'rists. I also seem to recall that life actually improved in some respects for some people, as neighbourhoods started to work together and organise to help each other.

in every other country, citizens understand that their society is as good as they make it, while many of ours seem to believe that we're a leading nation according to some divine plan and no amount of bone-headed governance and skewed priorities can ever change that fact.

Sadly, I hear this sort of nonsense frequently. America can do no wrong, and is best at everything, apparently, regardless of the evidence. It's a bit sad in some ways: at least England knew when their moment of glory was over, coming as it did after the devastation of World War II.

There is a little light over here, though. Our Prime Monster, John Howard The Weasel, is suffering a little in the polls (although alas he's never fallen as far as George Bush, probably because he's a more cunning politician).

And since we have an election coming up soon-ish, Howard and his government are splashing around the cash like toddlers in the bath. Sadly, it's not doing them much good: the electorate has become a bit blase about handouts, and they're now less than thrilled about Howard. One of his little tricks recently backfired, which gave me no end of joy: he announced money for a new hospital in a marginal seat (quelle surprise), and was instantly beseiged by all the other desperate hospitals clamoring for funding. He sent out his Health Minister to tell them there'd be no more money, of course, and everyone's a bit sour, given that the Howard government has done the same stupid "fiscal responsibility" aka "complete tight-arse except in marginal seats" act for years now. Our infrastructure is in much the same state as yours, and people have finally started to notice.

It's pretty basic stuff, though: governments are tasked with maintaining the smooth functioning of society, and that includes infrastructure. It ain't exciting, but it's necessary.

By the bye, how much has been spent so far on the Iraq war crime? Do the relatives of those who died think that the money has been better spent in Iraq than it could have been in America?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Try visiting sometime! Posted by: Conservasaurus
» Try thinking sometime! Posted by: HeroesAll
» Thank you for not visiting Posted by: Conservasaurus
» How dare you... Posted by: gregii
» RE: Try visiting sometime! Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Try visiting sometime! Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Try visiting sometime! Posted by: maxloen
» RE: Try visiting sometime! Posted by: Nedtheredhead
» RE: Try visiting sometime! Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Try visiting sometime! Posted by: Nedtheredhead
» RE: Try visiting sometime! Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Try visiting sometime! Posted by: Nedtheredhead
» That's not a bad thing, you know... Posted by: karma_ran_over_dogma
» RE: it is a very bad thing Posted by: gregii
» Make that "TROLL ROADS" Posted by: hagwind
Conservative... or liberal?
[Report this comment]
Posted by: ahmlco on Aug 3, 2007 12:27 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Is it conservative ideology... or liberal? The article makes the case that the "Republicans" small-government ideology is to blame, and they failed to spend money on needed infrastructure. But what it fails to consider is what, exactly, did they spend their money on? Did they build bridges... or shelters? Did funds go to highways or social programs?

All governments have a budget and a finite tax base from which to draw it. The author seems to assume, however, that you can draw an endless supply of golden eggs from the public "goose" to spend as you wish. And if that doesn't work, well, we'll just cut the goose open to get even more.

But we all know the moral of that story, don't we?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Conservative... or liberal? Posted by: richholland
» RE: Conservative... or liberal? Posted by: newtype_alpha
» RE: Conservative... or liberal? Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Conservative... or liberal? Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Conservative... or liberal? Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Conservative... or liberal? Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Conservative... or liberal? Posted by: Conservasaurus
» Robert Byrd Posted by: apophenia_monkey
» RE: Conservative... or liberal? Posted by: SatanicJamboree
"Creative" Destruction
[Report this comment]
Posted by: talkville on Aug 3, 2007 12:29 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Once again one sees capital's cyclical dogmas at work, as all that was previously produced is allowed to decay, thus making way for lucrative and profitable projects for finance to inject into "re-building" The loss of life is dutifully mourned and 'prayed' about and decried - these things happen after all.

This bridge, as I understand, is approximately 40 years old. It can only be hoped that a vigorous and sustained effort is made to obtain the documentation and paper-work as to those involved in the original construction and the work-orders and plans of those "outsourced" contractors who performed the work. Given the relatively short span of existence of this bridge, documentation should be readily available. It's time to hold those involved in the palpably shoddy construction of this bridge to account. And, as I understand from a report on news, Minnesota is among the HIGHEST in maintenance and public works provision. Condolences to those who lost family members, neighbors, friends in Minnesota.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Look at the FACTS, not propaganda. Posted by: albrechtkrausse
» RE: "Creative" Destruction Posted by: timebomb734
the result of propaganda
[Report this comment]
Posted by: richholland on Aug 3, 2007 1:20 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
in 1981 I visited Los Angeles for 3 monthes. Raised after World war II with the glory of the USA believing the All American Dream I was astonished to see the bad quality of the houses and high ways.

in 1989 I visited Praque and surroundings besides shabby houses many highways had a good quality.
And the people had free education and free health care.

In Europe and Australie we combine Capitalisme with Socialisme.
Capitalisme is evil and only works for the happy few. Socialisme doesnot work.

Is there any hope for the USA??????
Probably if you donot make wars and use the money for your country.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: the result of propaganda Posted by: talkville
» RE: the result of propaganda Posted by: hagwind
» RE: the result of propaganda Posted by: talkville
» RE: the result of propaganda Posted by: Earthling
» RE: the result of propaganda Posted by: talkville
» RE: the result of propaganda... Posted by: Nedtheredhead
Reminds my of...
[Report this comment]
Posted by: TT5 on Aug 3, 2007 1:42 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Chernobyl

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: eminds my of... Posted by: talkville
Yeah...
[Report this comment]
Posted by: adp3d on Aug 3, 2007 3:58 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There is going to be some major ass covering and finger pointing and I can hear complaints now from the GOP about the so called trial lawyers who line up to "cash in" and how we have to limit liability, blah blah...in the mean time the insurance companies in Louisana are drinking champagne with prospect of not having to pay out millions in claims. Sheesh, honestly I think they believe all they have to do is sit back and count the premiums as they roll in - and make sure the judges get their campaign contributions...

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Disintegrating Infrastructure
[Report this comment]
Posted by: shangrilalad on Aug 3, 2007 4:10 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
.
Disintegrating Infrastructure

Conservative Ideology is the same as Mafia Ideology, it’s all about corruption and death. Both are criminal enterprises that prey on people, and it’s only the scope of the two enterprises that differ. The Mafia sells heroin and Conservatives sell endless war. War is where the BIG BUCKS are made. The Mafia sells euphoria, and Conservatives sell fear, both are destructive, but which is worse?

Collapsing bridges are the least of our Disintegrating Infrastructure, the collapsing standards of living for middleclass Americans is worse. Conservatives have been waging race and class wars for generations, with great success, and they have destroyed our national cohesion for profit and power. Our country and people are being cannibalized by vicious degenerates who greedily eat their own children. Something that even the Mafia doesn’t do.

.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Iraq and the bridge
[Report this comment]
Posted by: reinaldok on Aug 3, 2007 4:54 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Do we really need some full blown commission of rocket scientists to explain to the 28% that still back the bushies that if we didn't continue to throw the billions and billions into
Iraq, we might have some cash left to attempt to fix up our decrepit basic installations?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Iraq and the bridge Posted by: Pirate1
» OH PLEASE. Posted by: timebomb734
conservative impact
[Report this comment]
Posted by: nor cal surfer on Aug 3, 2007 5:05 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
sadly ironic. The American Society of Civil Engineers estimates that it will take $1.6 trillion over the next five years to get the nation's roads, bridges, dams, water systems and airports into good condition (source: AP).

isn't that about what we will have sunk into Iraq before Bush is perp-flown to the Haque? we're already at a half trillion, matching the adjusted cost of the 13 year war in Viet Nam.

isn't that about what we could have earned by legallizing and taxing marijuana and prostitution in 2000?

isn't that what we could have allocated away from the Military-Industrial complex in an afternoon?

the proverbial forest has already been clear cut; the sheeple are shaded but by one tree: their ignorance.

(note to self: most reading this are the choir, not sheeple)

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: conservative impact Posted by: ALANHESTER
Dope slap time
[Report this comment]
Posted by: PJT on Aug 3, 2007 5:11 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Excuse me: I thought the good citizens of the Twin Cities were about to have a big celebration to kick off their new one billion dollar sports stadium. Is that not true? If they can find the money to build a playground for multimillionaires and their friends to play in, what's the big problem about the bridge? Hmmmm? You can't blame this on on the Republicans. I blame this on the Average American Moron, which is to say the large majority of citizens of this country. Everybody has money for sixty-inch plasmas, Escalades, Belly Buster Burgers with hot wings on the side, Dunkin Donuts, breast enlargement, booty reduction, trips to Mickey Land, ride on mowers with the entertainment systems inside, you name it-- there's money for it. Every city needs four new sports stadiums, don't you think? Free roads? Public schools? Public transport? Universal health care? These are all commie pinko ideas. This is AMERICA. Get with the program and STOP WHINING. PJT

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Dope slap time Posted by: Ratskii
» RE: Twins Stadium Posted by: chaoslegs
» RE: Dope slap time Posted by: peacemama
» RE: Dope slap time Posted by: peacemama
» Now slap the dope Posted by: gregii
» RE: Dope slap time Posted by: ALANHESTER
Epiphany
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Gravitas on Aug 3, 2007 5:14 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"in every other country, citizens understand that their society is as good as they make it, while many of ours seem to believe that we're a leading nation according to some divine plan."

This is a truly profound observation! I think I am going to use this quote (duly noted of course) as an essay question!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» I loved this point, too. Posted by: porgygirl
» RE: I loved this point, too. Posted by: karma_ran_over_dogma
» RE: I loved this point, too. Posted by: phatkhat
» Bring back the trains! Posted by: dadux
» RE: piphany Posted by: bcgirl125
Nomenclature
[Report this comment]
Posted by: LMNOP on Aug 3, 2007 5:16 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Are the Dead From the Minneapolis Bridge Collapse Victims of Conservative Ideology?

Who isn't?

But note the use of the word "conservative". It could have been "Republican" or "neoconservative".

"Republican isn't the best word because the Democrats, though less so perhaps than the Republicans, are conservatives, too, and, if not actively complicit, they're at least passively guilty as well for doing nothing and for standing for nothing.

"Neocon" is probably the best word. I don't mind derogating the word "conservative, but it's a little too broad for the present purpose as there is a type of conservative (no telling how few are left since their presence can't be felt in national politics) who would not let America rot.

This is the pathological, conscience-free type of conservatism that controls America (and both parties), which has just one, non-competing value: the lust for power and money. Even the very survival of their grandchildren and the earth itself is not a brake on these people's predation on the rest of us and exploitation of the earth. Literally: one value, never mitigated by any other idea or feeling.

That's the only kind of conservative thinking that most of us have ever seen, so "conservative" substitutes nicely for "neocon" in most contexts, offending maybe eight or ten people who are decent conservatives (where are you all? if you respect the Constitution, you should be fighting this monster with us).

One other word to consider using is "corporatist", which says it all, even implying fascist without overtly saying so. Also, it's easier to see the Democrats' conservatism and complicity in creating a corporatocracy when you look at their corporate ties.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Nomenclature Posted by: SatanicJamboree
» RE: Nomenclature Posted by: Pirate1
» RE: Nomenclature Posted by: LMNOP
a long nite spinning!
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Conservasaurus on Aug 3, 2007 5:24 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
""It's a predictable outcome of the rise of "backlash" conservatism; we've swallowed 30 years of small-government rhetoric, """ ....

Josh, you are really reaching on this one.

I have visions of you sitting up all nite saying there MUST be someway we can spin this as anti conservative...

Bigger government will make us all safer???.. please!!!

I propose you take a poll and see how many liberals were driving across the bridge at the moment it collapsed.. you might find LIBERALS are at fault!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: a long nite spinning! Posted by: marid
» RE: a long nite spinning! Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: a long nite spinning! Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: a long nite spinning! Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: a long nite spinning! Posted by: SatanicJamboree
» RE: a long nite spinning! Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: a long nite spinning! Posted by: SatanicJamboree
» LOL Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: a long nite spinning! Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: a long nite spinning! Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: a long nite spinning! Posted by: ordaj
» Ban him Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: Ban him Posted by: SatanicJamboree
» RE: Ban him Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: Ban him Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: a long nite spinning! Posted by: ALANHESTER
Ahh, but remember!
[Report this comment]
Posted by: marid on Aug 3, 2007 5:25 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
IN a country that bases the welfare of its people on the Gross National Product this will be a bonanza.

Repairing the bridge adds to it, new cars adds to it, casket sales, lawyers fees, plane traffic for news anchors, food and water consumed by rescue workers, pay for the rescuers, equipment rentals, and all the other myriad of things that this tragedy will set off will boost our GDP. And so in the eyes of Wall Street and the economists we will do better as a nation.

For Pete's sake when will we get off this bus to the insane asylum and realize that our people's quality of life has little or nothing to do with the GDP.

Remember the true mission of govt, to provide for the good of the people and the welfare of the country as a whole.

The Constitution has been changed to read "We the Corporation", when will We the People finally look up and realize they have been shearing us and sending us to slaughter for years. The Corpse rule all.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Excellent point Posted by: HeroesAll
» Hurricanes & earthquakes "help" the economy too! Posted by: karma_ran_over_dogma
» RE: Ahh, but remember! Posted by: TheNamelessCity
» RE: ead the preamble to the Constitution Posted by: dangerouslysane
» Disasters and GDP Posted by: tjg1984
Cronies Gone Wild
[Report this comment]
Posted by: marxalot on Aug 3, 2007 5:31 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Funding for infrastructure is all siphoned off by the elite crony network. Your tax dollars get jacked, and that bridge was taken out by a different kind of terrorist.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Cronies Gone Wild Posted by: ALANHESTER
We need to dump both parties that just want to politicize on tragedies and DO NOTHING ABOUT THEM!
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Bev on Aug 3, 2007 5:53 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Our country is falling apart, and Joshua here is trying to politicize. BOTH SIDES ARE WORKING FOR THE CORPORATE ELITE. It's time to throw them all out.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Get off the short bus Posted by: Spot
» ideas? Posted by: dover23
Memo To Bu$h Cheney Inc., All War Contractors-War Profiteers, PNAC Signers:
[Report this comment]
Posted by: freethink7 on Aug 3, 2007 6:05 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We the people will no longer support your illegal wars in Iraq, Afganistan, upcoming Iran war, et al. Take all those trillions in profit that you have made from war profiteering-war mongering at the expense of nearly a million innocent lives and begin rebuilding our country and its infrastructure.

We the people are sick and tired of funneling money needed to rebuild our roads, bridges and our infrastructure into your illegal unethical wars.

All profits made from unscrupulous war profiteers/contractors must now be used to rebuild our own country and all its crumpling bridges and roads. Oh, and you can pay reparations to the families of the bridge collapse with your filthy blood money.

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Faith-based Infrastructure
[Report this comment]
Posted by: ProgressiveManiac on Aug 3, 2007 6:23 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Fundamental tenets of conservative Republican philosophy have held that government should keep its hands out of everything except waging war and putting criminals in jail.

So, perhaps God will re-build the bridge in Minnesota and the levees in New Orleans. Or perhaps the private sector will step in and do a good efficient job of it. All we need is to have more faith in these magic solutions.

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» RE: Faith-based Infrastructure Posted by: ALANHESTER
Bad Engineering and Denial
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Posted by: R.I.P. on Aug 3, 2007 6:27 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Josh, The reasons for the bridge collapse is consistent with many other similar man made disasters throughout history.
It's bad engineering to satisfy economic priorities .... Google "bridge disasters" and you'll find the same story again and again. Rip Tragle

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» Then How Do You Explain Posted by: Gravitas
» RE: Then How Do You Explain Posted by: VZEQICVA
» Engineering bad economics Posted by: eddie torres
» RE: ngineering bad economics Posted by: dover23
» Alternate interpretation Posted by: eddie torres
» RE: Alternate interpretation Posted by: dover23
» 'Big' isn't the same as 'fraudulent' Posted by: eddie torres
That other catastrophe
[Report this comment]
Posted by: VannaLaRoche on Aug 3, 2007 6:33 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
'Member, the World Trade Center was built bad, too, and that's why it collapsed the way it did. Remember? Sure you do.

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» RE: That other catastrophe Posted by: phatkhat
» RE: That other catastrophe Posted by: Conservasaurus
Step Up!
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Posted by: shangrilalad on Aug 3, 2007 6:36 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
.
Step Up.

The next thing you hear might be Rush and O’Reilly blaming liberals for blowing up the Minnesota bridge. Don’t laugh, they’ve said worse.

Murdoch is a fascist, his newspapers and networks are fascist, his “Anchors” are fascist, and it’s all fascist all the time.

WTF!

Democratic Representative didn’t notice when fascists started taking over the air waves, when “conservatives” packed the courts and every other agency of government with “good little Germans,” and when the “Decider” urinated on the Constitution and balance of powers we once held dear?

Somebody better step up and tell America what’s happening, because we’ve never been in deeper excrement. We’ve got people in power who are changing our form of government by Crime & Decree, and few of our “Representatives” seem to notice or care.

Americans are not cowards. We’ll fight anybody, anytime for dissin’ us, but someone has to tell us the truth so we know who or what to fight. Right now we have anarchy and paralysis, caused by a dictatorial president and no organized opposition from any of our Democratic “leaders.”

Step up and tell America what’s happening..

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Joshua, I wonder why no Neocon talk about privatization?
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Posted by: sausage on Aug 3, 2007 6:39 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So far, in the aftermath of the I-35W bridge collapse, no Republican has stepped up to the plate to denouce the "socialist" Interstate highway system; claim that private enterprise would do a better maintenance job; finish with a declaration that hence forth all the Interstates will be turned into toll roads, pay for themselves to be owned and maintained by private companies.

Of course, for nearly thirly years, from Reagan to Bush II the Nightmare, our free-market fundamentalists in Congress, on both side of the aisle, have been singing the praises of private efficiency over governmental incompetency and slothful government bureaucrats.

Yet does anyone ever look at private efficiency?

I seems to me that every time a public enterprise is privatized the following scenario takes place: New private owner fires half of work force, coerces remaining workers to work longer hours, busts unions, lowers pay; cuts corners on maintenance in effort to increase profit margine, which already took a jump due to lower wages; after several years of profit taking and physical neglect, private owners declares enterprise unprofitable and walks away, leaving government to pick up pieces.

It's too soon to tell, but I will wager that the State of Indiana will be facing a similar situation in twenty or thirty years.

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» Absolutely true!!!!!!! Posted by: pleaseplanttrees
More to come
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Posted by: jmndodge on Aug 3, 2007 6:45 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
our infra-structure is in serious decline. Not just the roads, bridges, and power grid, but much more seriously the state of education, health care, and social services in our country. The obscene obsession with lower taxes for the rich, restricted services for common man, and passive neglect of our national transportation and power grid while spending far beyond our means for war, international meddling and occupations all accross the globe with military bases expanding rapidly, has resulted in massive decline in our national health, our international reputation, and our moral/spiritual intregety. May God help us.

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» RE: More to come Posted by: phatkhat
The Rich Get Richer and the Poor Get Killed
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Posted by: ogman on Aug 3, 2007 6:49 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The simple fact, now obvious to all but the completely blind, is that the wealthy have gutted this country to the point that we can no longer even support our infrastructure. Mindless adoration of greed has left us with a country where no one wants to do any job that will not make them a millionaire in six months. Those who do those jobs get the shaft and then rich people mount disdain upon them. We've created a culture where work is for suckers.

Our economy is crashing under the weight of thieves who steal and then respond that their victims simply should have been more careful. Our laws now provide cover for this thievery and punish those who object to being ripped off. Fixing bridges won't buy anyone a new yacht, so you can bet it will still be a low priority, even after this tragedy.

Insurance companies are some of the worst thieves. No doubt they will respond to this incident by canceling the policies of anyone who has to cross a bridge to get to work. These same companies have already destroyed the health care system. I'm pretty sure we can solve the entire health care "crisis" by simply jailing the lot of them and distributing their bloated wealth to the medical community so they can actually provide MEDICAL services.

The wealthy have demanded and received tax cuts. In return they promised more jobs and better services. None of those things have materialized. Personally, I'm ready to vote for the first candidate that shouts "No New Tax Cuts!" Privatization lines the pockets of the rich but solves no problems. What kind of fool does one have to be to think that a corporate mindset will support the needs of a society? Bridges and roads and health care are not profitable, rather they are necessities. They don't increase stock prices or provide golden parachutes, instead they support a healthy and safe society. No corporation is ever going to solve the day to day problems faced by a democratic society. As has often been said, "A corporation is not a democracy." Why then are we letting them run this one?

We live in a country that creates nothing. Today's new wealth is created by lies and theft, by cutting necessities, and by taking jobs away from people who need them to support their families. Corporate leaders mismanage their companies and then punish workers who had no control over the bungling boardroom. Lives are lost on a daily basis so that the wealthy can buy bigger cars and bigger houses and ravenously devour far more than their fair share of our resources. Believe me, they will continue preying upon us just as long as we fail to defend ourselves.

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Republican or Democratic bridge?
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Posted by: pzzp on Aug 3, 2007 7:07 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The moment I saw the news I wondered how long it would take before the partisans came out of the gridwork.

This just in:
The TRIAA (Terrorist Reporting Industry Association of America) quotes witnesses as saying they observed a robed man sawing through girders under the bridge just hours before the collapse. President George W. Bush, speaking through a muted microphone so people could "read my lips", indicated that new legislation will mandate Viagra be added to cement in order to "stiffen it up". Pfizer stock shot up at the news and the offices of the Carlyle Group were swamped with buy orders from members of the Cabinet and Congress.

Vice President Dick Cheney said: "My heart goes out to the taxpayers the cuts to whose taxes and resulting shortage of infrastructure funds is now causing them grief and guilt. It is not easy to have such a tragedy on your conscience". "It's a good time to go shopping" pipes in President Bush. Continues Cheney "I also appreciate the diversion this incident offers from the drudgery of dealing with the war in Iraq. I am pleased to announce also that I have awarded the bridge reconstruction contract to Halliburton last night. Blackwater Security personnel are standing by to monitor the situation and prevent looting of the submerged vehicles in the river."

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I live less than 3 miles from the bridge
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Posted by: chaoslegs on Aug 3, 2007 7:11 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Pawlenty vetoed two gas tax bills in 2005, and in 2007.

I agree with Joshua on the overall point of this article. Tompaine.com has taken to counting sinkholes caused by leaky water/sewer systems to highlight the crumbling infrastructure.

More funding would be very welcome by Minnesota, or at least Twin City residents. Even the Chamber of Commerce was calling for it, as the growing congestion hurts business, especially transportation dependent business. However, more funding would not necessarily have prevented this. If the MN DOT engineers give it a pass (or pass enough) then they won't allocate funds to fix something they don't see as a problem.

Now the lack of funding has lead to what I have called the 'beg and spend' plan for the Crosstown (I-35W and MN Hwy 62) construction which was delayed by a year because the original proposal had the construction companies front the money and we would pay them when federal funds came down the pipeline in laters years. I have also called this the Wimpy method of funding, 'I will pay you Tuesday for a highway today.'

I would recommend people read some of John Gunyou's article/columns on governing. He is the city manager of Minnetonka, and was Finance Commissioner for the state of Minnesota under Republican Governor (moderate) Arne Carlson. So for those conservatives trolling this site, he is a Republican.

Some thoughts from a person that has driven across that bridge 100s of times.

P.S. I think the Big Dig mention was a disservice to the point of this article as that section was constructed in 1999. I thought the point was crumbling infrastructure, not properly designed infrastructure (although cost cutting because of lower tax base can lead to that).

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» RE: Twins stadium Posted by: chaoslegs
» RE: Twins stadium Posted by: timebomb734
» RE: Twins stadium Posted by: chaoslegs
Standing on rubble
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Posted by: sliver on Aug 3, 2007 7:19 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I hear Bush is visiting Minneapolis today. Another photo op of him standing on rubble, which is becoming a recurring theme of his presidency. How many times did Clinton stand on rubble?

I know a government engineer who said there is a lot of pressure on them to stay under budget. They keep asking for more money, which they know is needed for safe roads, but they never get enough. I would bet that the engineers who inspected the bridge could have condemned it, but that would have busted their budget, so they tried to get by with it.

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» RE: Standing on rubble Posted by: VZEQICVA
FIRST THEY DO THE MATH
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Posted by: VZEQICVA on Aug 3, 2007 7:22 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Figure out a worst case scenario and the odds for and against an event actually happening. The day before the bridge collapsed, the chances that it would were miniscule. One chance in how many? And so they push everyone's luck by betting against it. Maintenance seems to have gone out of style. Even though it's the smart way to go. They prefer to settle huge lawsuits which are then called a nuisance. So what does this ethics committeee do?? Thanks, ANNA

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The 55 Billion Dollars being given in military/financial aid to Saudi/Israel could have saved for
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Posted by: maxpayne on Aug 3, 2007 7:30 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
maintaining our infrastructure here at home as this and the Louisiana tragedy have shown. Of course, the neocon NAZIs would much prefer to PRIVATIZE and FUCK America's infrastructure to DEATH. Hitler and Stalin would be blushing by now ! You don't have to watch the TV media much to realize that our country is in "NINETEEN EIGHTY FOUR" mode.

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Democrats aren't any better
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Posted by: Tombo on Aug 3, 2007 7:36 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I live in Minneapolis, and while I would love to blame this on the Republicans, it is the Democrats that are standing in the way of transportation funding at least in the state legislature

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» RE: You got to be kidding me! Posted by: chaoslegs
Eric Hoffer was right
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Posted by: flingus on Aug 3, 2007 8:00 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I recall an interview many years ago that Eric Severeid had with Eric Hoffer, the blue collar philosopher, in which Eric Hoffer made the observation that you could judge a society by how well it performed maintenance on itself. Included in this maintenance, but not limited to it, was maintenance of the country's infrastructure. How prescient of someone speaking of this while the interstate highway was being completed and was still, for the most part, brand new.

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Not Conservative nor Liberal But De Facto National Policy Terrorism
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Posted by: P. Hermes on Aug 3, 2007 8:12 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is not a matter of conservative or liberal neglect or shortsighted infrastructure policy. This is the direct result of American global hegemony which prioritizes public infrastructure, health and societal welfare way behind fiscal gain for a minute percentage of members of the American public and their shareholders.

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Lincoln said it first
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Posted by: CJC on Aug 3, 2007 8:13 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"A government of the people, by the people, and for the people shall not perish from the earth."

The low tax, small government ideology is, sadly, not just a right-wing idea. Almost all Americans subscribe to it one way or another. We firmly believe that responsibility lies with individuals. We generally see government as 'wasteful."

I once was a resident of the ever-so-liberal town of Brookline MA. I happened to live on a street of modest houses in the one Republican ward (of 15 in the town) that happened also to be the wealthiest. There was a public debate about funding for the town parks. The residents of Chestnut Hill were opposed. Well, even if you have a big lawn and a swing set etc etc where will your children be able to play on the town soccer or baseball team if the public parks are a shamble?

What this way of thinking ignores, obviously, is that there are collective risks and collective responsibilities that none of us can manage on our own. Even if the questionable quality of the I35 bridge had been well publicized in Minnesota who can actually take "personal responsibility" never to cross the bridge. Even in the case of Hurricane Katrina there was a lot of public feeling that those residents of New Orleans who didn't flee (never mind that most of them had no way to get out) had only themselves to blame for ending up in the Convention Center or clinging to their roofs.

We need to make every effort to change the conversation. There are many many areas of public life that demand public responsibility. We all need to stop talking about tax cuts and keeping budgets as low as possible and concern ourselves with what needs to get done and how to do it.
We can't have private bridges, roads, levees, tunnels, airports etc etc etc. Toll roads are no answer either as it remains a public responsibility to ensure that public facilities are safe for all of us.

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ratski
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Posted by: Ratskii on Aug 3, 2007 8:37 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
While I agree that infrastructure in America needs more funding, it is not clear that this collapse would have been avoided if Pawlenty had not vetoed the highway funding. The bridge is extremely busy and there was supposedly a 0% chance of a catastrophic collapse.

Well the catastrophic collapse did happen -- the highway engineers were wrong. So aside from funding issues there is the matter of whether the calculations and measurements for testing the nations bridges are accurate.

144,000 vehicles a week used this bridge. It would have taken the acknowledgement that there was a major risk for them to have closed it down for 2 to 3 years in order to rebuild it.

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» RE: ratski Posted by: chaoslegs
'Privatization' vultures are already circling
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Posted by: scheherezade on Aug 3, 2007 8:51 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Expect the Chamber crowd to jump on this event to push more public infrastructure selloffs. Why bother the wealthy with road taxes when you can soak working stiffs for 50 years worth of future tollway profits?

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I've pointed this out before on other subjects...
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Posted by: sphoenix on Aug 3, 2007 9:09 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But this statement...

"Perhaps. And perhaps it has to do with American exceptionalism -- in every other country, citizens understand that their society is as good as they make it, while many of ours seem to believe that we're a leading nation according to some divine plan and no amount of bone-headed governance and skewed priorities can ever change that fact."

....brings me back to repeat it.

Amerika is the new Pax Romana. Just like those Amerikans who believe that our mere existence is divinely ordained..."One nation under God", so too did the Romans feel. That sense of divine nationalism was part of their undoing...although it took the better part of 500 years for Rome to finally unravel, leaving a few meager remnants that actually lasted almost 1000 years.

Here is a quote from Peter Heather in his book, "The Fall of the Roman Empire: A New History of Rome and the Barbarians" (2006): “Indeed, the Roman state saw itself not as just marginally better than those beyond its frontiers - but massively and absolutely superior, because its social order was divinely ordained. This ideology not only made upper-class Romans feel good about themselves, but was part and parcel of the functioning of Empire. “
“The overwhelming implications of this attitude were, first, that conflict should be the normal state of relations between Roman and non-Roman; and second, that the Roman Empire should be victorious in whatever it aspired to. What did divine favour mean, if not security against defeat that the hands of those lacking that divine favour?”

Keeping that in mind...do we see any parallels to the sense of nationalism that is raging in this country, as well as the rhetoric and actions our government and religions are taking in the People's name?

IMO the only way this country...and this world for that matter, will ever heal from this crap is to take religious fervor out of the operations of government. People, of any belief system or religion, need to respect each others differences and stop pretending that they are better than everyone else. As long as there is a sense of elitism, privilege, or divine ordination we will have the problems that we are seeing today.

Let's face facts...Iraq has become a Holy War...Christians/Jews vs. any other belief system in the world. I have heard the fundies calling Muslims servants of the devil. This is not productive debate and will only perpetuate the divisions amongst peoples. These divisions are certainly working very well for some people who see this as an opportunity for self-enrichment. But in the end everyone on earth will be the ultimate losers, and governments and countries will eventually be dissolved, just as happened in old Rome.

I hate to say it but...I hope the dissolution happens sooner rather than later...I would like to help rebuild a better, more sane country...and ultimately world. I just hope I'm still alive to see it happen...

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We buy frosting not cake
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Posted by: FURonnie on Aug 3, 2007 10:29 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Awhile back I visited the Victorian town of Ferndale, California. I am a restoration consultant and my specialty is foundation retrofit. I was standing in front of a Queen Anne that had been made into a bed and breakfast. The owner came out and started talking to me, saying that they had bought this fancy this and that, and they had spent over 150k on restoration. I then asked how much they had spent on foundation. He said "Oh this place has stood for over a hundred years and the foundation will stand another hundred"

I looked under at the rotting posts and old piers and said any shaker and you'll be of the ground!

A year later I saw this gentleman on TV standing in front of the racked house sitting on the ground. The earthquake which is common in the area knocked it off those sticks. What had been a fairly easy task and moderately priced job turn into an enormous task.

Folks spend money on glamour not infrastructure. We can spend billions on Iraq's rebuild but when it comes to the real needs we fail.

In all probability they could have added some simple steel plates at the digonal braceing junctures and it would have stood at least until we wake up and rebuild our house instead of stealing others.

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» RE: We buy frosting not cake Posted by: YogiBear
Josh - it's called looting the economy
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Posted by: Ghoulman on Aug 3, 2007 10:30 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
... the invisible "hand of God" economy that the Conservative Movement advocates is this result. A crumbling state.

Nice article Josh.

The so called "small government" GOP rhetoric really just means micro-management of large bureaucracies by political officers hand picked to forward the Conservative ideology. These bureaucracies are reduced to an ineffective mess (Bush/Cheney folded FEMA into Homeland Security before Katrina hit... it demonstrates just what I'm saying and what Josh wrote in the article), the money goes to the military industrial complex (where DO Americans think their taxes go anyway?) if not straight to Haliberton Corp. by way of Iraq.

After 9/11 and before Katrina, the top three disasters, experts advised, are a WMD terror attack, an earthquake in California, and the levees breaking in New Orleans. TOP THREE!

There are millions of dedicated government people willing to help Americans and have good ideas and plans to do so... but the Conservative Movement doesn't BELIEVE in those people and worse, they believe bureaucracies are stupid liberal and even evil. Take immigration - many States had years of research and plans to deal with the increase of immigration from Mexico. Washington ignored it and, in need of an issue to attack with, they ignored the State initiatives and created, out of thin air, the FEDERAL immigration debate. If you wanna call the racist trash Lou Dobbs spits out a debate.

The US is a war economy. That's all that's left. when industry disappears (and is outsourced), the dollar falls, and the only ups on the DOW are tech bubbles, the next thing The Powers That Be do is to loot the place.

... no money left for power grids, bridges, highways... oh wait, there's that Ronald Reagan Highway in Alaska that goes to no where and no one uses. What? The entire Republican caucus in Alaska is under investigation for massive corruption? What a frackin' shock. :D

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Nobody wants taxes and the WAR MACHINE
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Posted by: militaryhater on Aug 3, 2007 11:13 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As long as corporate America owns and controls our government they will never re-invest in us. No rich person on this soil wants anything to do with Americans that in their opinion 'are beneath them'.

Also no one in this country wants to 'finance' transportation which means taxing us at the pumps, raising license renewal tabs or actually going even further, building toll booths at bridges to finance them. Toll booths would hit everyone that uses a bridge or road. Could this be the answer? Chicago uses them with great success. Of course if this were to happen, the rich corporations would try to control this too as I have read our country is moving in this direction. Privatizing our highways and bridges to BIG CORPORATE America so they can take more money from us and get richer on our unhappiness. Not only are they trying to seize our power companies, they want to control all the infrastructure. The more money the Federal Government doesn't give to States, knowing that they will struggle to find the money, the easier it will be for BIG CORPORATIONs to come to the aid of All STATES in our Union offering salvation. They will raise prices even more and milk us until we can't live in this country anymore. The solution is to keep our tax money in this country and no more financing useless wars that only help the rich.

Stopping the WAR MACHINE and staying in our own backyard and taking care of our own people solves this issue as well. I would rather have the money stay in our own country than feeding Haliburton and other rich cronies like disgusting Cheney.

Franklin Delano Roosevelt is the last president to invest in America and Americans. The rich Corporations have slowly riddled away at his good efforts and they our sending us back to the 1929 crash. They want serfdom here with Americans as corporate slaves to the rich. We need a candidate like Franklin and from the pool running on the Republican as well as the Democratic ticket, only Kucinich comes the closest. No one has bought him out yet. The rest are all lapping at the feet of the rich in this country.

Highways and bridges were started by Franklin and financed by Federal money. We need Federal money to rebuild America's infrastructure. STOP THE WAR IN IRAQ and INVEST IN AMERICA!!!

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A new low for Holland
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Posted by: pg on Aug 3, 2007 11:14 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
To blame this disaster on one party or the other is gross.

Minnesota has the 11th highest tax burden in the US.

A better question would be:

" What members of the Minneapolis legislature diverted infrastructure money funds from taxpayer dollars to the general fund where it could be spent on other things?"

But Mssr. Holland would not really want his readers to dig in to the truth of that matter or what kind of pork might have been stuffed into the vetoed spending bills (by either party)

No...better to use a tragedy to further an agenda.

Gross

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» you are incorrect Posted by: dover23
» RE: Civics lesson Posted by: chaoslegs
» RE: Civics lesson Posted by: pg
The New USSR.........us!
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Posted by: NumberSix on Aug 3, 2007 11:30 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Long ago, a colleague of mine had emigrated from the old USSR to here, to work, to get away from, well, guess.

He'd always tell us his stories, how food was scarce, this was scarce, how everything was hellish, considering, as he once said "They put every goddamned thing into weapons, weapons and more weapons. Not tractors, factories, roads, schools, power, stores, whatever. Just shit to roll out to show off to the West."

I now have to wonder, as we've lost touch over time, is what he told us about to come true and here? Has the US become USSR II?

Effing amazing, it is, then: We spend trillions on weapons, weapons, more weapons, but not a damned dime on health, roads, bridges, power, food, water, oh, just the normal stuff a society needs to get through the daily grind. Meanwhile, like the old Soviets, our loving government is dancing all around the world, bullying nations into believing that capitalism is so much better than communism ever was, but leaving out the details about who's really running it, and how you can never get ahead.

Ironic. The Soviets preached the gospel of Marx, we run around preaching the gospel of Friedman. And we both love to meddle, meddle and meddle.

And yes, all that insanity caused the USSR to implode, leaving behind a loose association of countries STILL picking up the mess once called The Soviet Union.

One then wonders, as we seem to be playing copycat, what's the timetable like for our own implosion?

Answer: Not goddamned long, obviously.

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an even darker ideology
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Posted by: zooeyhall on Aug 3, 2007 11:57 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is a great article, and I agree fully with Mr. Holland's conclusions as to the causes of the bridge collapse and conservative ideology.

However, there is an even darker ideology behind the conservative lassaiz-faire attitude. It is a "let them die" principle that really motivates these Republican conservative COC types. They have an attitude towards the unwashed masses that would have done Marie Antionette and early 19th century British industrial owners proud!

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Does anyone actually think........
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Posted by: tap17x on Aug 3, 2007 12:18 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
............that conservatives give a microfuck about regular people? I agree that the Dems are almost equally corrupt but they're still better enough that I would NEVER vote for a Refucklican. We're heading into a dangerous time where voters know that something's wrong and are fed up, but they're so stupid politically that they don't know what it is.

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Let's relax a second
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Posted by: owlsliveintrees on Aug 3, 2007 12:22 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There's plenty of money to fix the bridges. We all know this. It's all about priorities. People don't like spending money on things that on the surface appear to be functioning well. To complain about small-govt conservatism is a goofy argument, because small govt conservatism manages to find dollars for war, farm subsidies, NPR, baseball stadiums, the war on drugs, etc. If the citizens watch as city, state and federal government piss away their tax dollars on useless crap, it's hard to point fingers once a bridge gives way.

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» RE: Let's relax a second Posted by: tjg1984
The scope of greed & stupidity behind the bridge collapse goes further than you dare, Joshua.
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Posted by: Pat Kittle on Aug 3, 2007 3:41 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I explained it yesterday.

Excerpt:

Our brief "age of oil" has enabled our population to grow to horrific proportions, and now that oil is obviously running out, our oil-based infrastructure is falling into disrepair. Surprise, surprise!

It's common knowledge to anyone who pays attention that these things would start happening. We built all this crap in the service of a bloated population that far overshot its sustainable size. Now we're trying to steal Iraq's oil to keep the charade going a little longer. Surprise, surprise, a Malthusian resource war!! When we learn we can't just keep stealing the rest of the world's resources, we're going to have a very rude awakening, of which you just had a very small sampling.

You have only yourself to blame for that. I tried my best to warn ya.

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A Sadly Overdue Wake Up Call. Unfortunate as it was!!
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Posted by: yellow on Aug 3, 2007 4:00 PM   
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For a long time the federal government, in attention to the global economy and US corporate stature in it, forgot about the importance of domestic US society. Yes, we do need to take care of the local economic well being of the country. The collapsing infrastructure would have been a great opportunity for a massive federal works program to make US industry more efficient and to speed up traffic and save wasted time on the roads and expressways to boost domestic productivity. Mass transit could have also figured in prominently. Of course, the benefits have been lost to spur GDP growth and help safety.

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They said it
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Posted by: YogiBear on Aug 3, 2007 4:11 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Before conservatives jump down Joshua's throat, it's important to recall their own guys have been saying it basically for years:

Grover Norquiest: 'My goal is to cut government in half in 25 years, to get it down to the size where we can drown it in a bathtub."

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» RE: They said it -- :-) N/m Posted by: Pat Kittle
» rating this comment Posted by: YogiBear
Bridges
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Posted by: InsertNameHere on Aug 3, 2007 6:05 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Bridges:

We have to (fail) to build them over there, so we can't fund them over here.

The more I read, the more I learn that the financial system we have defended steadfastly is the greatest Ponzi scheme ever perpetrated. It has gone on for hundreds of years, and no matter how many people are crushed by it, we still fall all over each other to throw our paltry earnings at it, hoping to do better than someone else.

I may have to refrain from the news for awhile, I'm getting to the same point I was when I started reading about the assault on Fallujah...A constant, gnawing, nauseous contempt for our species.

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» I loved your first sentence. Posted by: tjg1984
American bridges are falling down.....
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Posted by: eosrk on Aug 3, 2007 6:27 PM   
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...along with its water, sewer, road, healthcare, and the lock and damns like that one just up from that bridge collaspe, and it's the only things along the Inland Rivers Systems that control the flooding, and the drying up of the river system, and they all shot to hell....let's not forget, education, and that mess 'over there, jobs, wages....I say America is falling down.

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BushCo wanted to make goverment so small......
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Posted by: eosrk on Aug 3, 2007 6:31 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
....that you could drown it in a bathtub.

...They got their wish!!!

Only difference that bathtub is the size of the Mississippii with a piece of 35W inside of it.....and it already drowned some people......too bad it wasn't them guys whom wanted it.

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» Don't believe Bush's lies. Posted by: tjg1984
How Terrorists take on USA!
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Posted by: eosrk on Aug 3, 2007 6:36 PM   
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Simple. Just let it crumble, get no-bid contracts, then rebuild it!

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$2 Billion a Week for Wars- Meanwhile, America Falls Apart
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Posted by: sofla100 on Aug 3, 2007 8:28 PM   
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The USA is spending about $2 billion a week for its Iraq and Afghanistan wars. It is also spending countless billions on its national security/defense and homeland security apparatus. Of course, billions of this go to private contractors and corporations. Meanwhile, the national highway infrastructure, along with other important public sectors such as water and electric systems, are shorted funds. Yet, we have enough to send for a foolish war in Iraq. The squandering of our wealth is horrific, and we are paying the price for it.

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Tie a Yellow Ribbon on that Ole' collapsed bridge.
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Posted by: FURonnie on Aug 4, 2007 11:34 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Not to be morbid, but I wonder if anyone had a "W" for Pres. or a Support Our Troops Ribbon (Support the War) on the cars that were on the bridge that day. I wonder if they support wasting billions on rebuilding Iraq's infrastructure now?

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Let's end the myth that the we should ruin,opps i mean run the government like a business
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Posted by: pleaseplanttrees on Aug 4, 2007 12:03 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is high time we stop trusting the Ceo's of the world to operate our government as if it is a business we have all seen what these robots have done to American companies.
It seems they only teach one business model to the CEO's in their ivy league halls.

In order to walk away with the largest Golden parachute possible follow this plan to the letter.

1. First lay-off workers in mass as this pleases wall street and immediately increases the TEMPORARY bottom line. Employee moral does not matter as the average American will only complain and then look for a lower wage job or two elsewhere to keep paying the debt they have inevitably charged up to maintain their comfortable lifestyle.

2. Force remaining workers to increase productivity or be fired. This works beautifully in the short term as well.

3. Tell buyers to buy cheaper ingredients for our products and start massive advertizing campaign to claim product has been improved.

4. Increase price of product while offering less of it and tell the marketing department to put the 33% bigger or more label on the front. The average American will never know about the law we paid for through lobbying that will protect us from misleading advertizing because we do not specify more or bigger then what.

5. Tell our mechanical engineers to design the most inferior products using planned obsolessence to increase the bottom line and give us a better way to project future earnings.

6. Instruct our chemical engineers to put additives in our food products that supress the body's natural ability to feel full while simultaneously increasing the urge to eat so we sell more food.

7. Outsourse customer service department and make sure it operates on a skeleton crew. Customer satisfaction does not matter because the average American will only complain then get easily discouraged yet continue self-destruction consumerism because it is all they know.
Short term profits will skyrocket sending the stock through the roof make sure you get paid in stock options. Move on to next company after you have ruined it start over with another because short sighted plan only works for a couple years. Be sure to cash out stocks before it crashes.

Bush and Cheney have ran this country into the ground using the completely discredited trickle down and deregulate everything theory. It is massively irresponsible to trust insanely profit-minded individuals to regulate themselves and hide behind corporate entities to escape prosecution.

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» Oh i forgot to break the unions#8 Posted by: pleaseplanttrees
Of course it's ideology.
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Posted by: WhatNow? on Aug 4, 2007 3:33 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If we weren't spending so much money on bombs to make other country's bridges look like this bridge, our bridges might not look like they've been bombed. Sonofabitch!

I find it strange Mr. Holland would mention small government ideology when he seems to be trying to be critical of bush/reagan fiscal policies, when they presided over the largest increases of government spending and personel. As a country we would probably do better with a smaller government especially if the government had it's priorities straight. Instead of the massive spending on weapons and war, a wise allocation of resources towards things like infrastructure, education, health care, food, clothing and shelter would promote the general welfare of the US much better than any imperialist's dreams of full spectrum dominance.

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» RE: Of course it's ideology. Posted by: richholland
HighSpeedTrains instead of more cars
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Posted by: richholland on Aug 5, 2007 4:41 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In WesternEuropa we develop a railwaysystem that competes with planes. Highspeedtrains.

The system is partly a private company but under control of the European States.

The taxautorities reward with taxreduction the use of public transportation.
And remember a gallon gas costs allready $ 8,

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Call loosechange, demolition charges were used
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Posted by: OhioPatriot on Aug 5, 2007 9:16 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How else could a bridge break so evenly?
Answer; Obviously demolition charges were used.

Why was the schoolbus saved?
Answer: Bush likes school children (remember 911).HMMMM

Big oil cannot deliver oil up river for months: proof positive that the motive was higher gas prices to line the pockets of Bush and and Company.

Missing construction worker was actually federal agent demolition expert now living comfortably in Argentina.

If you watch the fall frame by frame you will see Ann Coulter and Bill Oreilly junping into the mississippi seconds before explosion in wetsuits holding suspicious BIG RED BUTTON marked with word DETONATOR.

Fuck that, frames 23 thru 87 depicting the above have mysteriously disappeared after federal agents visited Twin Cities: proof positive of Govt. Coverup.

And the big one: I know it was hot that day but WAS IT HOT ENOUGH TO MELT STEEL? HA GOTCHA,

Just thought I would kick off the next liberal witch hunt.
(let the insanity begin at looseminds OOPS loosechange,com)

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so, now who is the dope?
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Posted by: gregii on Aug 7, 2007 12:43 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
PJT: after reading the responses it sounds as if you made your dramatic critical remarks about slapping the dope out of ignorance. You agree? You were so wrong? You don't know what you're talking about? Who is going to slap the dope now?

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Macho thrills
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Posted by: chief of okeefe on Aug 9, 2007 5:32 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The problem is the bushvolk seek their thrills by killing the brown-skinned subhumans and proving our "superiority" (because, in their sick minds, a better killer is somehow more human). Nothing terrifies them more than the image of subhumans celebrating a victory over the noble white man. No more Saigon '75 images for the brave chickenhawks!

But there is no "thrill" in boring tasks like fixing bridges or tunnels or roads. Or providing catastrophic medical coverage for working people. That stuff is for wimps.

So trillions more for wars on end, but nothing left, not even a measily few millions, for our infrastructure.

One thing is for sure, the "terrorists" do not need to go after our infrastructure. Bush and his drone army are taking care of destroying that.

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Bridge Collapse was NOT caused by Conservative Ideology
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Posted by: jbunke on Aug 14, 2007 6:26 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
To suggest that the I35W bridge collapse was caused by Conservative Ideology is crazy. Money was not an issue. The state of Minnesota has a billion plus surplus. A representative from MNDOT said that "there are no monetary constraints on bridge safety". If MNDOT believed the bridge was going to fall down, they would have closed it. A rating of structurally deficient does not mean the bridge is about to fall down and should be closed. I don't know what caused the bridge collapse but no one was expecting it or predicting it. What should and is happening now is, find out why it collapsed, take steps to prevent it from happening again and re-build the bridge.

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