Disgraced Pastor Ted Haggard Can't Pray Away the Gay

Editor’s Note: The following is an excerpted transcript of an interview of evangelical Pastor Ted Haggard’s former hired gay companion Mike Jones, by James Harris and Joshua Scheer. You can read the full transcript here and listen to the podcast of the interview here.

James Harris: [Mike Jones] is the author of the new book I Had to Say Something -- the book outlining and detailing his relationship with Ted Haggard. Since his new book was published, Ted Haggard, the former president of the National Association of Evangelicals, a 30,000-member organization, has stepped down. And this book has caused an incredible stir. Mike, usually I would start off a discussion of your book by saying clearly you were in this for the money. But you lost your escort capacity. You were fired from your fitness consultancy. Why did you do it?

Mike Jones: Yes, when I exposed Ted Haggard, I exposed myself. There’s no doubt about it. I also had death threats, and I risked being arrested, also. But you know, this man was such a hypocrite. This was a man who talked to Bush once a week. This was a man who actively campaigned against gay marriage. And he could not even abide by his own marriage vows. This is so strong for me, and it hurt me so deeply, that I simply reached the point where I had to say something.

Josh Scheer: What about in recent news where he said he has been cured of being a homosexual, he’s reformed. Do you believe that, since you spent three years with him?

Jones: Well, first of all, the word cured is disgusting. It’s not a disease or a sickness. Listen, this man I had seen for approximately three years ... this man is in denial. It’s part of the problem with the evangelical church, it’s part of the problem with the Catholic Church. They put such guilt and shame on being a gay man that you end up with someone like Ted Haggard who has to sneak around. And that’s the sad situation about all of this.

Scheer: I read in the book, and in some descriptions, that you call Ted Haggard a gentle man and a nice man. How can he, on one side, be on TV saying all those awful things about other groups, and then change and be so tender with you? How do you think that happened?

Jones: Well, first of all, Ted Haggard, I think, is a gay man, personally. He grew up in the whole evangelical movement, and that’s what the problem is so many times with these people that give in to these positions, is they really have their own issues. But they don’t know how to deal with it. So, they get into these religious groups, where people look to them for guidance, and they get money and they get power, and they just can’t be themselves, so they almost live this façade. That’s what the tragedy of it all is; they’re living a lie. And so many people follow them. And, it’s a tragedy. Nobody won in the situation; I didn’t win; Ted Haggard didn’t win. But it’s a shame that he can’t be honest with himself.

Scheer: In your relationship did you ever know about his views? Watching the TV in the gym, did you ever know his views, and did you ever confront him while you guys were together?

Jones: You have to remember that I ... saw him for two and a half years before I found out who he was. So he didn’t talk about what he did for work or any of his personal beliefs. I did know he was married and had five kids. I did know that much. So, it was strictly a business situation for me. It was, when he saw me, it was not only for sex, but it was for companionship. It was obviously to be affectionate with a man, that’s what he was looking for. It’s just unfortunate that he was living a double life.

Scheer: What are your feelings about being an escort? I think it’s a very interesting topic, that when I was reading the interviews ... I know you talk about it in the book, and in many of the interviews you’ve done, they’ve talked about it. Do you find there was anything morally wrong with being an escort, or if you could go back to doing that would you?