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The Crash of 1929: Are We on the Verge of a Repeat?

By Scott Thill, AlterNet. Posted July 26, 2007.


Hedge funds have helped create a counterfeit economy that some experts say could lead to another full-blown economic depression.
07262007story
07262007story

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[A senior adviser to President Bush] said that guys like me were ''in what we call the reality-based community,'' which he defined as people who ''believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality.'' I nodded and murmured something about enlightenment principles and empiricism. He cut me off. ''That's not the way the world really works anymore,'' he continued. ''We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality -- judiciously, as you will -- we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors ... and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.'' -- Ron Suskind, "Without a Doubt," New York Times

The hypermarket beckons

News flash: The American economy is a hyperreality engineered by Ph.D.s working hand-in-hand with colluding media multinationals, political officials and some of the biggest names in business -- and the banks that invest in them. In other news, greed is still good.

Of course, the idea that Wall Street is corrupt is as old as Wall Street itself. After all, the immortal "Greed is good" aphorism was muttered by a white-collar criminal in the 1987 movie named after Wall Street, which was directed by a guy, Oliver Stone, who made his name in postmodern cinema and political agitation. In fact, a film of the same name came out in 1929, the year of the stock market crash. And so the narrative replicates.

Speaking of replicants, Oliver Stone is a man who tackled not only labyrinthine presidential conspiracies in the 1991 film JFK but also the numb pathos of 9/11 in last year's World Trade Center. Indeed, Wall Street indirectly tackled the junk bond and insider trading economic screw-jobs that riddled the '80s like so many overpriced, overly puffy hairdos. Stone envisioned the film as Crime and Punishment on Wall Street, which was only partially fitting for the time because there was a ton of crime and very little punishment.

And the more things have changed, the more they have stayed the same. Indeed, only the nomenclature has been altered. Instead of junk bonds and insider trading, we have hedge funds and private equity takeovers. And instead of Gordon Gekko and Wall Street, we have Fox News mogul Rupert Murdoch and, soon, the Wall Street Journal.

In the 1980s, guys like Michael Milken and Ivan Boesky -- who anticipated the "Greed is good" phrase with a 1986 commencement speech at Berkeley in which he stated, "Greed is all right. ... I think greed is healthy" -- were riding high on schemes that failed. Both served as inspirations for Stone's Wall Street scumbag Gordon Gekko, but both got off with a few years in prison and a few hundred million dollars lost. Milken shaved a 10-year sentence down to two, and in 2007, still had a net worth of about $2 billion. Roll the happy ending.

But the hyperreality does not end there, and by hyperreality I mean simply a reality that exists outside the one you live in, whoever you are. It can come in many forms. Film is one such simulation, network and cable news is another, and our two-party political machine, as Ron Suskind explains in the quote at the top of this article, is a finer-tuned one still. But they all collide and collude in the social space of Wall Street and its various markets, on the internet and on the trading floors of the New York Stock Exchange and onward.

Take Milken's favored high-yield junk bonds, for example, which are basically bonds that are rated below investment grade by ratings organizations like Standard and Poor's or Moody's and therefore subject to not only a much higher risk of default or other cash-sucking crashes but also higher paydays if you can make them work. To do that, you need a little help from your friends and unsuspecting investors, which is why Boesky and Milken went to jail for suckering friends and strangers into dense schemes that went nowhere.

And if that whole scam sounds familiar, that is because, as is always the case with hyperreality, it is happening again. Yet this time, it is happening in an information age in which 97 percent of stock transactions are conducted electronically. And this time it is not because of junk bonds, but because of hedge funds, mortgage-backed securities, subprime loans and a bizarro virtual scheme known as naked shorting, which has been around as long as -- and played a role in -- the 1929 crash, and according to some, could trigger the next one any day now.

"We've divorced the system from paper," explained Overstock.com CEO and hedge fund activist Patrick Byrne to me by phone, "and since then it's become easier to divorce it from reality. But the problem is that so much has been drained out of the system using these tools that the money is not there. If this gets exposed, the money is not there. It's been turned into Ferraris and mansions in the Hamptons. It can't be paid back. The system is going to vapor lock."

Nailing subprime's number

The recent implosion of the subprime housing market -- in which people with little or no significant savings of their own are offered huge loans for little or no money down for houses often but not always located in fast-track developments -- shares similarities with the junk bond burnout of the 1980s.


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See more stories tagged with: hedge funds, subprime lending, naked shorting

Scott Thill runs the online mag Morphizm.com. His writing has appeared on Salon, XLR8R, All Music Guide, Wired and others.

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View:
The Casino Economy and the Financialization of Global Capitalism.
Posted by: yellow on Jul 26, 2007 1:02 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
One big indicator of the precarious nature of global capitalism is the fact that at the end of June 2006, the absolute nominal value of all over the counter financial derivative deals was $283 trillion, more than six times the value of all goods and services produced globally. Speculation is heart of global capitalism. There is close to $2 trillion daily in foreign currency speculation alone. The growth of speculation seems to go together with growing debt. The total US debt public and private is over $45 trillion. That is more than the global GDP. This cannot last. Consumer debt alone in the US is over $12 trillion and is what is propping up the stagnant US economy.

This is risky and seems to threaten a new depression. The growing social inequality is worse today than in 1929. The parallels are quite ominous. There could be another crash.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: We go, they follow Posted by: NumberSix
» That's not necessarily true Posted by: cellorelio
» Alternet censored my post... Posted by: Whitecliff
» Guy you're to sensitive. Posted by: yellow
» Derivatives Posted by: Leman
Hate to say this...
Posted by: Temporary on Jul 26, 2007 1:32 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
but it's ALREADY HERE!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» please elaborate Posted by: thistleblower
Theres not much things im surden anymore...
Posted by: Temporary on Jul 26, 2007 1:35 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
but i know who will be the one to pick up the pieces

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Well to be honest... Posted by: Temporary
» RE: Well to be honest... Posted by: fearn
Imposed upaid labor, imposed debt is class despotism-corrupted democracy
Posted by: Perfectclue on Jul 26, 2007 3:58 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Like all upaid labor, social wealth, stripped from its whole to an oligarchy, enabled by the class elites, corrupted middle layers, debt is another form of slavery, which these middle layers, corrupt class thugs impose on the collective whole.
This class despotism is called democracy. NOT!!!!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Feeling Bullish?
Posted by: Whitecliff on Jul 26, 2007 4:23 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The sooner that the collapse comes the better; the day that The System™ comes crashing down will be a very glorious one indeed.

HEY! Maybe Jesus will come back and chase the money changers out of the Temple (America's temple: the NYSE trading floor) again?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Financial Advisor
Posted by: zazupuppy on Jul 26, 2007 5:02 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I work for a Wall Street Firm as a Financial Advisor. I couldn't agree more. Very well written article. I have been screaming about "invented shares" for 15 years. Thanks for the read.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» No you don't Posted by: saml
What Experts?
Posted by: pharmawatcher on Jul 26, 2007 5:26 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I want to complain about false advertising in the headlines and subheads for this article. You quote three sources, one of whom is actually quite temperate in his remarks and the other two are actually either investors or representatives of investors who are invest in companies squeezed by hedge-fund short-sellers. It's a serious question whether naked-short selling by hedge funds represents a systemic risk to capital markets, and I would have like to learn what oversight authorities at the Federal Reserve Bank and the Securities and Exchange Commission think about the situation, not to mention progressive economists who follow capital markets closely (I could provide your reporters with a list if they wish to contact me). I'm not asking for Alternet to eschew a progressive point of view. But I think your reporters ought to learn how to diversify their sources, learn to confront official sources with the questions raised by their stories, and learn to disclose the obvious conflicts of interest of any source they use, especially someone whose own website -- "investigatethesec.com" -- proclaims that they represent investors who've been hurt by short sales.

Mainstream jourmalism is collapsing because advertising dollars are migrating rapidly to the Internet. Look at today's profit reports on the Tribune Co. and the New York Times Co. It looks like the people the blogosphere loves to hate won't be with us much longer, and more and more people will be getting news from sources like yours. My fear is that the journalistic values the MSM follows on its better days is going to go down the toilet with it.

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» RE: What Experts? Posted by: leafsong1
» RE: What Experts? Posted by: jbur816
» You want sources about market fraud? Posted by: ReallyBearish
» RE: What Experts? Posted by: Morphizm
The new economic order
Posted by: Temporary on Jul 26, 2007 5:49 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
America tied up...

real good:)

And China on the other hand is doing good!

REAL GOOD:)

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: The new economic order Posted by: richholland
VERY TIMELY
Posted by: gellero on Jul 26, 2007 6:17 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Funny, but just last week a client of mine - a professional 'technical stock analyst' in his mid 50's ( his own and some private money 10 - 20 million ) said the market was headed for a major correction.......20 - 30 % down. Or more Drops of over 1000 points in a week or less to start. (that's just the DOW, individual stocks could lose 50 - 70 %) He's into gold equities. Euro stocks will have a sympthetic fall too. All within the next 3 months.
Move your 401K into cash now.....you have been warned!!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Cash? Posted by: justaguy
The Great Depression didn't just "happen"--
Posted by: zooeyhall on Jul 26, 2007 6:25 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Most of the time, the Great Depression is taught in schools and presented on the media as something that just "happened"--like a hurricane or earthquake. However there were fundamental flaws in the capitalist system that made the Great Depression inevitable. And those flaws still exist today.

In addition to the issues raised in this article, I would like to add another. Many historical economists agree that there were serious, hidden, and ignored problems in the economy in the twenties--well before the crash of '29. One of the most important--and one that is all to evident today--was the declining real purchasing power of the working class. Even though businesses and CEOs were making record amounts of money, little of the benefits went to labor. Ordinary people could not then buy the ever increasing glut of consumer goods. Wealth disparity in American society reached levels that weren't exceeded until the present day.

And of course there was the prevalent preaching that unrestrained capitalism would cure all. And if you weren't in a rising boat---well, you just were too lazy or incompetent to get in on the gravy!

Add to that a media filled with fluff reporting and a "bread and circuses" entertainment for the masses--well, the 1920's are looking alot like American in the first decade of the 21st century!

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» Right wing rubbish Posted by: ReallyBearish
» edith is a bushie- Posted by: WitchyNy
» Bearish about the truth? Posted by: edith
» No problem, Gullible. Posted by: edith
Like a tidal wave, over 30 years to build...
Posted by: djnoll on Jul 26, 2007 6:47 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
and it will crest in another 5-10 years and crash on us all, worldwide. When our government passed ERISA at the behest of corporations who wanted out from under the pension burden, the American way of life was put on a path of financial disaster. the average person is not financially educated at all, and thus does not have or understand the tools needed to manage large investment programs. IRAs and 401 (k)s are the toys of the investment industry and are served up by employers as the alternative to pension funds that the employer pays for as a way of protecting the retirement of loyal employees.

So now we have have had junk bonds and hedge funds that investment houses have used to support investments. We have people like Russ Whitney and Carlton Sheets who sell people programs that encourage them to invest in real estate and make people prey for subprime loans. Of course they make their money from selling you the programs because they have moved on to bigger and more involved investments, using other people's money to create money. Then, when the markets begin to fall, these people who have mastered the economic game bail out, and leave the rest of us to hold the pieces as they crash around our heads.

The government is not going to step in and regulate anything. They think that this "growing" economy of wealth is going to last forever if they just keep us at war. They are right to a certain extent, but when baby boomers begin cashing in those IRAs and 401(k)s around 2017, billions of dollars are going to be needed to meet the demand, and when those dollars are not real....guess what? DEPRESSION! and one that will make the 1929 Great Depression look like a Sunday School picnic. And the likes of Rupert Murdoch will be no where to be seen, right along with his wealthy pals the Bushes and the Cheneys of this world.

Not only should we be cashing in and putting our money into gold and other tangible investments, we should be getting 100% out of debt as quickly as possible and making sure that we can feed and support ourselves adequately. We should be creating communities that work together to care and support each other with food, supplies, emergency services. We should be preparing ourselves to help our neighboring communities as a way of protecting ourselves. When the next Depression happens, it will be coupled with a level of violence that will be difficult to suppress. In short, folks, it will be a catharsis that will either cleanse this country of its apathy and create a better nation, or it will be the end of this country in a bloody battle to the death. The choice is still ours, but only if we listen to people like this author of the article, and start to prepare now.

http://www.standanddeliveramerica.com

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» RE: or we can just fiddle Posted by: solrev
And don't forget--Our constitution is just a piece of shredded paper...
Posted by: wmGreybeard on Jul 26, 2007 7:17 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Like I said, same scam, different name."

When any thing gets a bad reputation they change the name.. Pool becomes hedge fund.. Philip Morris becomes Altria ( cute innocent sounding name) ect. ect.

Maybe another 1929 would be a good thing. Paper money would be worthless, property titles are only pieces of paper like our constitution. The rich can't eat gold.

It will be a horrible mess for most of us, but if the earth is not destroyed by nuclear war, there are some including the indigenous tribes who will survive and perhaps develop a better society than we have.

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» Let Them Eat Gold? Posted by: edith
» And who has the gold, Edith? Posted by: ReallyBearish
Major correction coming soon: get liquid and get out of debt!
Posted by: Bobsays on Jul 26, 2007 7:32 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have been following this closely. Just last week a gathering of fund managers in the UK was a jumpy affair. All smelt something was going wrong and all were making exit plans fast. The UK economy is even more debt-juiced and bogus than the US economy.

Right now, the UK economy is experiencing growing inflation for everything (except most peoples salaries of course): food, housing, transport - it is all going up at a higher rate than the 'official' inflation. That is what they call a 'crack-up boom' - the last surge of greed and panic before it all implodes. It always gets worse before the crash. As people freak out, they pile into houses in order to protect their wealth, driving up prices and massively increasing debt. But in the end a correction comes, because, let's be honest, the UK is mostly a toilet for most people. It is a less-than-inspiring place and its economy is now centered around funny money and welfare provision. Not a super-great way to do things.

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Remember the Soviet Union?
Posted by: Temporary on Jul 26, 2007 7:56 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Economy? What "economy" comrade?"

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The new world order
Posted by: Temporary on Jul 26, 2007 8:02 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Does this mean we shoud invest in gold????
Posted by: andy on Jul 26, 2007 8:03 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
if this is in fact true, and im sure it will happen one day, should one invest in gold (real gold in hand). If the market crashes and the currency becomes hyper inflated and worthless, does this mean gold (keeping up with this hyperinflation) will become something like $20000 an ounce?

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» Invest in Canned Goods Posted by: monkopotamus
Can't eat gold..
Posted by: form516 on Jul 26, 2007 8:21 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think I'll invest in a farm instead.

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» RE: Can't eat gold.. Posted by: cellorelio
» RE: Can't eat gold.. Posted by: ReallyBearish
» RE: Can't eat gold.. Posted by: Ysiad
Contrasts between 1929 and 2007
Posted by: Trazom on Jul 26, 2007 8:28 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
While the author addresses some similarities between now and then, mostly the financial derivatives markets, I think we need to point out 2 huge disparities that may end up creating a crisis much worse that what was experienced in the past:

1) The United States is now a net energy importer, and has been ever since the fifties. We import 5x energy than what we export. I'm assuming this is mostly petroleum (can't find the statistics). Not only that, but we also are net consumers of energy, consuming 98 quadrillion BTU per year compared to producing 72 quad BTU. with the difference coming from imports. And the differences are only growing. In 2000 we consumed 38 quad BTU worth of petroleum compared with 1929 levels of only 6 quad BTU. What does this all mean? It means that we have another nail in the coffin, for if a depression ensued and got really really nasty, all things would go out the window except energy, which would be King. All of the things we take for granted, which need such enormous amounts, would be gone in a puff of smoke, leaving a hundred million automobiles with no gas to put in the tanks, and a large section of suburbia (which didn't really exist back then) virtually uninhabitable. Those who would be lucky enough to get their hands on some gasoline will be pay very steep prices, and those who cannot will simply suffer.

2) A much larger percentage of Americans have mortgages (2/3 of all households in the US). Not having statistics on this from 1929, I would venture a guess that it is somewhere near 1/3 or even less. And those who did buy houses back then often payed entirely in cash, completely unthinkable today for everyone but the rich. So in addition to a depression which wipes out millions of jobs almost overnight, there is now even less solace for these millions of additional homeowners who will now be crushed by the weight of their mortgage debt.

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Crappy article
Posted by: davcrock on Jul 26, 2007 8:31 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I don't think the author knows jack about financial markets. Going long or short on stock doesn't hurt the middle class one iota. The problem with CDO's is the actual pricing is very difficult and requires very complicated models. Unfortunately, quite a few people got it wrong. People who invest in hedge funds know they are taking a massive risk. They take it for the chance at a massive payoff. Furthermore, hedge funds are only available to institutional investors and people with huge incomes. Naked short selling is a risk. But the returns can be huge.

If the author is so sure that we are on the way to financial collapse, build a financial model, show the assumptions, and publish the results. Otherwise, quite making spurious comparisons to a very different time and financial environment and quit fear mongering over something that you don't understand.

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» SO, you want proof... Posted by: Bobsays
» More proof Posted by: ReallyBearish
» RE: Crappy article Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: Crappy article Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: Crappy article Posted by: VZEQICVA
The BIG QUESTION is...
Posted by: greenman on Jul 26, 2007 9:01 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...what do you ask yoiur broker about the stocks which are in your account? Mr. Byrne says:

"Now you never know about this unless you know the right question to ask your broker, but it's possible that all you really have in your account is an IOU from your brokerage account from a different broker working with a hedge fund."

So, what's the magic question?

Greenman

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» RE: The BIG QUESTION is... Posted by: VZEQICVA
A LOAF OF BREAD VS. A TWINKIE
Posted by: VZEQICVA on Jul 26, 2007 9:25 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
1929 was bread, now we have a Twinkie market. We know how bread is made but twinkies remain a mystery. I had 20 yrs. in the financial biz and I've known some brilliant people. Much of daily market activity is over most heads. Currency, options, short selling, derivatives, margin, interest rates, etc.
Most of us should be saving, not so called investing. If you follow 1 share of stock in a single company you'll see a lot more than a share of stock. It's complicated. Thanks, ANNA

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A LOAF OF BREAD VS. A TWINKIE
Posted by: VZEQICVA on Jul 26, 2007 9:25 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
1929 was bread, now we have a Twinkie market. We know how bread is made but twinkies remain a mystery. I had 20 yrs. in the financial biz and I've known some brilliant people. Much of daily market activity is over most heads. Currency, options, short selling, derivatives, margin, interest rates, etc.
Most of us should be saving, not so called investing. If you follow 1 share of stock in a single company you'll see a lot more than a share of stock. It's complicated. Thanks, ANNA

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the system never did work
Posted by: Realist 2 on Jul 26, 2007 9:29 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I marched with Dr. King. I was drummed out of the broadcast business because I spoke out against the war in Korea. I led demonstrations against the war in Vietnam and did the same against the war in Iraq. As a world war two vet I organized groups to help get better funding for VA Hospitals. All during that time I knew that no real change will come about unless we create a real Government by for and of the people. It almost happened after the last crash, but the system was saved. This time it will happen. Read REBIRTH OF A REALIST
www.erols.com/suttonbear

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I have a feeling..
Posted by: Temporary on Jul 26, 2007 9:33 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Uncle Sam will be deployed in the middle-east for a long, LOONG TIME!

Just enough time for China to play a "Reagan" on Bushes America;)

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» One things for sure! Posted by: Temporary
Charts for Edith and the Right Wing Bozos
Posted by: ReallyBearish on Jul 26, 2007 9:47 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
http://www.321gold.com/editorials/willie/willie072607.html

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» scary stuff Posted by: mcooley
» Answer Posted by: ReallyBearish
WATCH: ZEIGEIST The Movie
Posted by: mcooley on Jul 26, 2007 9:55 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If you haven't seen this video - don't be the last one to see where this next financial meltdown sucker punch is going to come from soon. The market's highs, the price of gold - this is all the final act before the closing bell:

Zeitgeist: Part 3 of this video lays it all out:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=497251819335380093

You might then be intrigued to spend the time to watch the whole thing here:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5547481422995115331

Based on view counts, this video is currently rated #8, but it doesn't appear on google's "Top 100" list?
I wonder why?
Maybe for the same reason google took down the video
"America: Freedom to Fascism" after it hit over 3 million views and then relisted it with a new count starting at zero:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1656880303867390173

Google - with their Orwellian corporate motto of "Do No Evil" seems to not want you to know what other people are actually watching. If you look at their "Top 100" list - it is basically all "tits-n-ass" videos - most of which have less hits than Zeitgeist.

Why is google lying to you?

Please watch these two videos while you still can.

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» RE: WATCH: ZEIGEIST The Movie Posted by: pjlewis_451
» RE: WATCH: ZEIGEIST The Movie Posted by: A rope leash
American economy...
Posted by: Temporary on Jul 26, 2007 9:59 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
flowing steadily to keep the military industrial complex going.

Going...

still going...

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Depression II
Posted by: leemiller38 on Jul 26, 2007 10:06 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Before WWII the first global conflagration was known as the Great War. So far the Great Depression has withstood the times because we have been lucky and the oil is still holding out, but eventually we know that infinite growth in population or the economy on a finite planet is impossible to sustain. Our "Growth and Progress" paradigm is badly flawed.
I much prefer a doomsday depression to a nuclear war and I am betting that the powers what be do too, though they seem to be a bunch of morons. It will wring out the excess in population in a hurry, but some of nature will survive and the planet will recover in a few million years though it will never be the beautiful place it was before we evolved.
However, we should be getting nuclear weapons dismantled just in case one of our political morons goes berserk. The dismantling will cost money and energy and can be added to our World Gross Product to show we are still growing the economy!

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American economy
Posted by: Temporary on Jul 26, 2007 10:17 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Running out of...

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» RE: American economy Posted by: Temporary
More wars ahead!
Posted by: Temporary on Jul 26, 2007 10:34 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Paper Wealth
Posted by: bob t on Jul 26, 2007 10:41 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Bush Republican is nothing but short term paper wealth. That coupled with the lask of purchasing power of the middle class and America is headed for a financial crash.
But then Bush said he would do that and he has.

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Parasites
Posted by: american on Jul 26, 2007 10:47 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The hedge fund parasites are taking energy away from the rest of us and the environment by scamming and scheming, slowly, carelessly killing...

If what you do doesn't actually add value, you are a parasite.

To think, this set actually thinks they are the "beautiful people."

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Other signs of a looming depression.
Posted by: HughScott on Jul 26, 2007 11:23 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Where I live, in Southern California, 18% of people making $200,000 a year live from paycheck to paycheck. Lose their jobs and they lose their homes. Meanwhile, foreclosures in Los Angeles County are up a whopping 800 percent this year.

Americans had better pray that Red China keeps buying U.S. bonds. But then, President Bush says not to worry. And why should we? He's been right about everything else.

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Wishful thinking
Posted by: persian on Jul 26, 2007 12:14 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There will be no crash of any sort. As always there will be strong corrections after a period of speculative and highly leveragd market i.e. intenet bubble of 2000 . The article fails to point out that the total impact of hedge funds on global equity market is fractional. People who borrow or buy houses beyond their means or get too greedy will get burned just like 2000. The excess borrowing of american consumers and government is where the danger lies. At some point the chinese and holders of petro -dollars will demand higher premium for their loan which will increase interest rate for all of us and take a bigger bite off of US budget and that will take away precious dollars away from health and education .The idea that you can go to war and give a tax breaks to the wealthy at the same time can only be done by borrowing. And that is to say the least misguided and irresponsible.

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» RE: Wishful thinking Posted by: Morphizm
» RE: Wishful thinking Posted by: mommy64
Let's recall that the term Casino Economy was coined by JM Keynes during the Great Depression.
Posted by: yellow on Jul 26, 2007 12:40 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The conditions that this great and precient economist saw during the 1930s was exactly the prevailing conditions we see today. There is rising social inequality, massive financial speculation, monopoly and economic concentration, and rapidly growing debt. The kind of instability brought about by these conditions can reappear. We are asking for real trouble.

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The IMF has been issuing warnings since 2002...
Posted by: babs on Jul 26, 2007 1:33 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
... about out-of-control spending of the bush administration, the U.S. trade deficit, and mounting U.S. war debt (now in the tens of trillions). It warned that this unprecedented fiscal irresponsibility could possibly bring on a new world wide depression.

These dire warnings were publicized in the U.K., Canada, and other media markets, but I guess not in America. Maybe Bush vetoed that story too...

but hey, the Bushes will never miss a meal so what the hell do they care! Scotch and cigars in Dubai and "so long suckers, thanks for the ride".

it has been the crime of the century indeed and it continues to amaze and stupify the world.

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Check out the American Monetary Institute
Posted by: dmaciewski on Jul 26, 2007 1:43 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I encourage Alternet readers to check out Stephen Zarlenga's work on monetary theory and attempts at reform of the Federal Reserve. They most recently pressed for the Monetary Transparency Act which would have the Fed estimate the amount of money in circulation and call for other oversight. Much of this monetary theory has coalesced into a think tank/lobby, the American Monetary Institute, based in Chicago. It offers concrete structural solutions to the debt problem, with extensive theory and history to back up their arguments.

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The American economy going...
Posted by: Temporary on Jul 26, 2007 6:46 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Even America knows...
Posted by: Temporary on Jul 26, 2007 6:50 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
when it's not top economy anymore!

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Even America knows...
Posted by: Temporary on Jul 26, 2007 6:53 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
when it's not the top economy anymore!

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Liquidating now
Posted by: dejavu2 on Jul 26, 2007 7:37 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I was already sold on the evil nature of hedgefunds, but now it has me scared enough to withdraw my cash. Let's face it...this ain't no It's a Wondeful Life and George Bailey isn't going to bail me out of my financial woes.

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Typical Communist Propaganda
Posted by: slydad on Jul 26, 2007 7:47 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is what I would expect from the extreme left. The economy is thriving, so they have to downplay the good news. After all, what it means is that the Bush tax cuts worked. They not only got us out of the Clinton induced recession, but they created and environment that is allowing the economy to experience real growth.

Everyone knows that diverting funds earmarked for the great black hole of the government (tax cuts) to the private sector will improve the economic scene. And the leftists have been bombarding us with whining, bitching and moaning about everything from "it only benefited the rich" to "it's making the poor poorer" ever since it was done. None of that is true though. The tax cuts benefited everyone,and thanks to the dynamics of a free market, the poor in our country are richer than the middle class in most other countries.

Now that the tax cuts have been vindicated by a vibrant economy, they have to now try to convince us that it is somehow just a mirage.

It won't work though . . . bye, bye . . .

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» You guys never let me down. Posted by: slydad
» Try This On... Posted by: Hal
» You got me! Posted by: slydad
» RE: You got me! Posted by: Hal
» You need help. Posted by: slydad
» You need a clue Posted by: Hal
» RE: You got me! Posted by: Dartagnan
» See what I mean? Posted by: slydad
» RE: Typical Communist Propaganda Posted by: incenseman
» HA, HA, HA, HA, HA!!!! Posted by: ReallyBearish
» Sorry dude . . . Posted by: slydad
» That's crap! Posted by: slydad
» If that's so . . . Posted by: slydad
» Wow! Posted by: slydad
fractional reserve banking as economic parasitism
Posted by: vzn on Jul 26, 2007 8:45 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
the author of the article clearly doesnt have much background
in finance,
but why fault him? its true of most americans.

there is widespread ignorance of the basic mechanics of our
money/finance system.. is that a bug, or a feature? by accident, or by design?

what do you do if your underlying money system itself is a giant ponzi scheme?

note that ron paul is the only presidential candidate courageous enough to challenge the federal reserve sham.

consider a free electronic paper I wrote called
fractional reserve banking as economic parasitism

endorsed by two phd economists. printed in nexus
magazine, 60k world circulation. #1 top downloaded
economics paper. used by economics
teacher in australia as standard classroom material.

more info on request.


recent supporting material:

- confessions of an economic hit man by Perkins
- money as debt video by Grignon
- Congressman pres candidate Dennis Kucinich
at last years
2005 Monetary Reform Conference

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» Stunning... Posted by: justaguy
» Keep reading yellow... Posted by: justaguy
» No. Posted by: justaguy
Stockpile Candy Bars, Forget About Gold
Posted by: sofla100 on Jul 26, 2007 9:09 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I question how much the author really knows about the markets. A correction, perhaps up to 5-10% or more is currently likely under way, but so what? The market has been performing very well and market corrections are no big deal. Especially, at this time of the year, during the "slow" summer season and before the fall when things usually heat back up. Short selling has often been criticized but I don't know of any evidence that shows it's harmful. Hedge funds, in my opinion, I don't know why some investors dumped so much money in them, I thought that was kinds of stupid. But, hey, so what?, they assumed the risk and they pay when things collapse. Hedge funds are mostly about rich investors who turn their money over to brokerage professionals, who in a few cases have done a bad job or shafted them, but hey, that is the risk they assumed. The biggest problem in the markets today is not about liquidity and money supply, which is really not an issue at all by the way, but, it is about insider trading. This insideous practice, and I don't know how you stop it, goes on a lot. You can see from option trading how much of a problem it is. As for buying gold or something like that as a hedge, save your money. The USA hasn't used gold as a standard since Bretton Woods. Gold is just like anything else, it has no intrinsic value, only the value assigned to it. So, in a big collapse, it goes down like anything else. Your better off stockpiling candy bars, as at least you can eat them if you need to.

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Time for a...
Posted by: Temporary on Jul 27, 2007 1:51 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
BIG FREEZE!

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There are no Naked Shorts
Posted by: davyy on Jul 27, 2007 7:52 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The muth about this persists because shorting is widely misunderstood. Shorting requires a third party, thus relieving the owner of the stock from paying the short seller, in the event his stock goes lower, and effectively losing twice on his position. Any third party which enters into this trade, confers legitimacy on that trade. To call these trades phantom is a bit like crying foul when a company, or group of investors borrows money, goes on margin, and buys stock. Money is created out of thin air, and used to buy more stock.
While it is feasible that the volume of phantom shorts might overwhelm the float available, it is also true that each share sold short carries an obligation to buy that stock.
While it may also be possible for a hedge fund, or other quasi institution to enter into an agreement with itself, although the rules state that any such trading company must report these shares, the IRS would certainly catch up to them at audit time.
What every short seller knows is that the market is rigged to go higher, and has a number of protective devices to keep it from going lower. The inborn tendency in 99.9% of all cases is to manipulate stocks higher. That's where the money is made, shorting is an activity mostly used for hedging purposes, and by occasional shorting specialists who make a living exposing companies whose earnings and business model are way out of line with the fundamentals.
A fairer market would be on the model of the commodity market, where every long position that is opened requires an opposite short position. Wall St doesn't want that because it denies them the ability to create wealth out of thin air, (ponzi finance) with the help of a bevy of regulations to aid them. When the thing works the same way in the other direction they scream foul. Too bad.

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» Still more bunk from the morons Posted by: ReallyBearish
» Exactly right (nm) Posted by: justaguy
» RE: There are no Naked Shorts Posted by: Morphizm
if history repeats itself....
Posted by: drmflorida on Jul 27, 2007 10:18 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
does that mean we'll have a bunch of capitalists jumping out of skyscraper windows? Even their final act is one of thoughtlessness and narcissism. On the off chance that they don't splat some innocent pedestrian, somebody has to clean up after them. Typical.

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victoria794
Posted by: victoria794 on Jul 28, 2007 10:14 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So, what do we do now? I have a very small mortgage and no other debt. All of my money is in a bank market fund now and doing really well. I've been nervous for a while. Should I take my money out? Should I buy guns, food, fuel? I have one child in college and have saved enough to pay cash for her education. What happens there? I have taught my children to never buy on credit unless you have the cash at hand to pay it off (except mortgages - and limit that as much as possible). Please, can anyone give us simple folk some definitive answers?

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» Income producing property. Posted by: justaguy
Start over!
Posted by: williameon on Jul 29, 2007 7:37 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
After the 'Corpirates' greed based economic system collapses from rot from within, we will have the opportunity to make meaningful positive progressive change.

When we stop looking at the Neo-Cons and start looking at the system that created them and is still behind them, we will begin to solve the problem.
The present system has been co-opted by special interest.
The special economic interests of wealthy industrialists. Capital interests.
Only by redistributing the abundance of the system wealth to the many, instead of the few, will we begin to make change things.
What changes?

To make the System fair.
We must level the playing field.
Take the Money out of politics.
Stop special interest from buying our government officials.
Break up the Media Conglomerates
A open, locally owned and run, Media is essential
To the survival of our country.

Level the playing field in Politics
By public financing of all elections.

Stop the Revolving door in Washington.
Ban corporate lobbyists from Government.
Change the one party ‘Corpirate’ system
To a true Multi party system.

Decentralize:
The Media Conglomerates
Manufacturing
Farming
and
Energy Production

Have a Armed Forces for defensive purposes only.
Stop Corporate Welfare!
Reinstitute all
The Bush & Co Tax breaks
Close all Tax Loopholes.
End the Tax Shelters.

With all of these savings
Guarantee:
Fairness
Universal Health care
A Livable wage
A clean environment
Education
Housing
And
Subsidence
To all.

The richest country in the world surely can afford these things,
That our poorer neighbors easily provide.

Stop Bullying the World.
Let’s start acting Compassionate
Good Deeds are a lot stronger than empty rhetoric.
Take care of our own first.
We are measured by how we treat the least amongst us.

The Poor
Homeless
And
The Sick!

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For Edith and her silly revisionist history
Posted by: ReallyBearish on Jul 29, 2007 11:03 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Great Depression was destined. The Coolidge Administration made it worse by allowing a bubble to grow, but it was going to happen anyway. Depressions are not the result of social spending or any of the other crapola you came up with. Excessive debt is the engine of depressions.

Read up on the Kondratiev Wave if you want to learn something. In any event, I can supply more that enough statistics showing that the stock market bubble was about to bring down the economy (debt vs. GDP, stock capitalization vs. GDP, dollar volume vs. GDP, etc.)

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» You're correct, but... Posted by: ReallyBearish
» Yep again. Posted by: justaguy
I fish this somewhere
Posted by: orion0s on Jul 29, 2007 11:53 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How to Survive the Coming Great Depression, early 21 century.
The balances you carry in your checking account,savings account,
certificate of deposit,or whatever,are simply figures noted on a
paper ledger or a computer disk.Neither your bank nor your,savings
and loan(S&L)has on hand the actual cash you deposited with it.
That money was loaned to someone else,who subsequently set up
a checking account or savings account and also became both
creditor and debtor of the bank or savings and loan involved in the
transaction.Right on down the line.
Thus,the banking system is based upon credit and the continued
expansion of credit.When debt levels become excessive and borrowers
can not longer repay their loans,the system collapses like a series
of falling dominos(slowly at first-though accelerating toward the
end when there is a mad scramble or panic by all depositors to get
the very imited supply of cash available.
remember recently the Argentinians?

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Rhetorical question
Posted by: Morphizm on Jul 30, 2007 12:01 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How is the stock market unlike gambling? And if it isn't unlike gambling, then how is it possible to argue the game isn't rigged? Fire away!

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» RE: hetorical question Posted by: saml
Wildly swinging markets
Posted by: Whitecliff on Jul 31, 2007 10:50 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Last week the U.S. stock markets had their worst week in 5 years and 2 major hedge funds (@ Bear Stearns) went belly up.

The week before that the DOW hit 14,000...the highest it has ever been.

Up, down, up, down, up, down...what gives? Sounds like the market is suffering from bipolar disorder.

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The evil of paper money
Posted by: Reader11722 on Aug 1, 2007 11:43 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Illegal paper money causing another crash, yet another infringement on our rights by the gov't. Add it to the ever-growing list of violations:
They violate the 1st Amendment by opening mail, caging demonstrators and banning books like "America Deceived" from Amazon.
They violate the 2nd Amendment by confiscating guns during Katrina.
They violate the 4th Amendment by conducting warrant-less wiretaps.
They violate the 5th and 6th Amendment by suspending habeas corpus.
They violate the 8th Amendment by torturing.
They violate the entire Constitution by starting 2 illegal wars based on lies and on behalf of a foriegn gov't.
Support Dr. Ron Paul and end this madness.
Last link (unless Stark County District Library caves to the gov't and drops the title):
America Deceived (book)

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When the Pump loses its Prime!
Posted by: williameon on Aug 2, 2007 3:48 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When you have all the money in too few hands
The economy stops working
That is what happened in the twenties and
That is what is happening now.
History repeats itself
If you are too ignorant to learn from past mistakes.

Greed is a negative human trait
It has failed the American people.
Rampant Corporate Greed
Has failed us all.
The largest transfer of wealth in the history of the world
Is taking place right now.
From the people to
“Corpirate’ CEO’s.
Who rip people off for Fun and Profit!

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For "When the Pump Loses Its Prime"
Posted by: mommy64 on Aug 2, 2007 3:45 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
For your thoughtful contributions, thank you. Readers who appreciate your form might enjoy Ruth Fainlight's Guardian Poetry Workshop introductory workshop, as well as her beautifully written poem within "100 Poets Against War." Caution regarding potential other bridge collapses, and weak US infrastructure, including what's left postKatrina, in relationship to the Iraq War, its cost to Iraq's citizenry and American citizens deserves poetic effort. Hopefully, Carl Levin, near Jackson, Michigan, is reading through these fora.

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