COMMENTS: 229
The Crash of 1929: Are We on the Verge of a Repeat?
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The hypermarket beckons
News flash: The American economy is a hyperreality engineered by Ph.D.s working hand-in-hand with colluding media multinationals, political officials and some of the biggest names in business -- and the banks that invest in them. In other news, greed is still good.
Of course, the idea that Wall Street is corrupt is as old as Wall Street itself. After all, the immortal "Greed is good" aphorism was muttered by a white-collar criminal in the 1987 movie named after Wall Street, which was directed by a guy, Oliver Stone, who made his name in postmodern cinema and political agitation. In fact, a film of the same name came out in 1929, the year of the stock market crash. And so the narrative replicates.
Speaking of replicants, Oliver Stone is a man who tackled not only labyrinthine presidential conspiracies in the 1991 film JFK but also the numb pathos of 9/11 in last year's World Trade Center. Indeed, Wall Street indirectly tackled the junk bond and insider trading economic screw-jobs that riddled the '80s like so many overpriced, overly puffy hairdos. Stone envisioned the film as Crime and Punishment on Wall Street, which was only partially fitting for the time because there was a ton of crime and very little punishment.
And the more things have changed, the more they have stayed the same. Indeed, only the nomenclature has been altered. Instead of junk bonds and insider trading, we have hedge funds and private equity takeovers. And instead of Gordon Gekko and Wall Street, we have Fox News mogul Rupert Murdoch and, soon, the Wall Street Journal.
In the 1980s, guys like Michael Milken and Ivan Boesky -- who anticipated the "Greed is good" phrase with a 1986 commencement speech at Berkeley in which he stated, "Greed is all right. ... I think greed is healthy" -- were riding high on schemes that failed. Both served as inspirations for Stone's Wall Street scumbag Gordon Gekko, but both got off with a few years in prison and a few hundred million dollars lost. Milken shaved a 10-year sentence down to two, and in 2007, still had a net worth of about $2 billion. Roll the happy ending.
But the hyperreality does not end there, and by hyperreality I mean simply a reality that exists outside the one you live in, whoever you are. It can come in many forms. Film is one such simulation, network and cable news is another, and our two-party political machine, as Ron Suskind explains in the quote at the top of this article, is a finer-tuned one still. But they all collide and collude in the social space of Wall Street and its various markets, on the internet and on the trading floors of the New York Stock Exchange and onward.
Take Milken's favored high-yield junk bonds, for example, which are basically bonds that are rated below investment grade by ratings organizations like Standard and Poor's or Moody's and therefore subject to not only a much higher risk of default or other cash-sucking crashes but also higher paydays if you can make them work. To do that, you need a little help from your friends and unsuspecting investors, which is why Boesky and Milken went to jail for suckering friends and strangers into dense schemes that went nowhere.
And if that whole scam sounds familiar, that is because, as is always the case with hyperreality, it is happening again. Yet this time, it is happening in an information age in which 97 percent of stock transactions are conducted electronically. And this time it is not because of junk bonds, but because of hedge funds, mortgage-backed securities, subprime loans and a bizarro virtual scheme known as naked shorting, which has been around as long as -- and played a role in -- the 1929 crash, and according to some, could trigger the next one any day now.
"We've divorced the system from paper," explained Overstock.com CEO and hedge fund activist Patrick Byrne to me by phone, "and since then it's become easier to divorce it from reality. But the problem is that so much has been drained out of the system using these tools that the money is not there. If this gets exposed, the money is not there. It's been turned into Ferraris and mansions in the Hamptons. It can't be paid back. The system is going to vapor lock."
Nailing subprime's number
The recent implosion of the subprime housing market -- in which people with little or no significant savings of their own are offered huge loans for little or no money down for houses often but not always located in fast-track developments -- shares similarities with the junk bond burnout of the 1980s.
Indeed, the subprime loans that carved America's cash cow for the last few years were rated just as poorly as Milken's junk bonds and ended up pretty much the same way: with the scattering of investors and players from a hailstorm of collapsed debts, besmirched reputations and impending government oversight. While Milken's house of cards was built on leveraged buyouts (LBOs), where an acquirer issued a bond to pay for an acquisition that he would pay back with funds yet to be earned, the engine that made subprime's train roll off the tracks are collateralized debt obligations (CDOs), which are intricately structured and packaged strategies pooled together to decrease the risk generated by the fact that they are usually home equity, car and credit loans so poorly rated that they promise only collapse for those who get them and seized assets for those who offer them.
Like I said, same scam, different name.
But this time the outlook is worse. For one, the subprime housing implosion has been a disaster for the market as a whole. Consider the case of Bear Stearns: Their hilarious hedge holes -- the CDO-heavy High-Grade Structured Credit Strategies Enhanced Leverage Fund and its sister, High-Grade Structured Credit Fund -- cratered in early June, going from about $10 billion to a few hundred million in assets within a matter of months, even though the hedge fund itself had been barely up and running for more than 10 months.
But here's the thing about hedge funds that makes them so lucrative: You can play both sides against the middle -- the middle class, come to think of it -- and still win. Huge. So it was no surprise when the Wall Street investment titan decided to bail out its own hedge fund, to which it had committed only around $35 million, with over $3 billion and counting. As Bear Stearns Chief Financial Officer Sam Molinaro explained in a conference call, "There continues to be significant value in it."
For those who work there, maybe. Meanwhile, those who invested in Bear Stearns' hedge funds are out of money, and those crushed beneath their so-called high-grade structures are out of their homes and cars, which are in turn seized and put back into the asset pool. Not a bad business if you can get it.
And while Molinaro's estimation of Bear Stearns hedge fund may sound rosy, the hemorrhaging of the housing market is anything but. Open up any newspaper to the business section and look for any headlines involving plummeting home sales or declining property values, and you'll taste the bitter pills, because Bear Stearns is by no means alone. Swiss wealth management powerhouse UBS shuttered its Dillon Read Capital Management hedge fund after losing over $120 million invested in the subprime Kool-Aid. Then there was Amaranth Advisors, which pulled off the biggest hedge fund collapse in history when it blew almost $6 billion of its $9 billion in assets in a mere week after a highly leveraged bet, although it threw its chips down on the price of natural gas
That's not the housing market, you say? Good point. In fact, the point altogether. As we shall see, hedge funds spread their bets across the entire economic table, and they are armed with that most virtual of investment strategies. It is called the naked short.
Getting naked with shorts
For those who don't know how hedge funds work, consider the casino table favorite known as craps. And for those who make their living or leisure playing it, forgive this short introduction.
Craps is a game that's been with us, to get hyperreal about it, since the Crusades, which itself was a series of highly risky but also highly lucrative takeovers. It is played on a table littered with numbers and any number of betting strategies, but rolls are governed by what is called the point, which is decided by the first roll of the session known as the come-out and is usually 4, 5, 6, 8, 9 or 10. These are the numbers the dice have the greatest chance of repeating on subsequent rolls, although the one they can hit the most is 7, given all the possible combinations. For this reason, if you roll a 7 when the point is any of the aforementioned numbers, the session is ended and the casino takes all the money off the table, pockets it and then hands the dice off to the next roller. Sucker.
If you want to join a craps game, you have to put your money down on the Pass Line, which is governed by the point. If the point is 8, and the roller hits it again, everyone wins and all the bets on the table are paid out. In other words, when you play craps, you are usually betting that you will hit another number besides 7 and make a ton of dough before you eventually do in fact hit it. That is called Pass Line play.
But there is another way to play craps, and that is to play the Don't Pass Line, which is basically a bet on 7. So there you are, throwing down your money and hoping that everyone at the table rolls a 7 while they're hoping to roll anything but. If they lose, you win. Not very popular, but since you're betting with the house, and the house always win, not a bad betting strategy.
But there's an even better one and that's playing both lines at the same time, which was frowned upon the last time I did it in Vegas, but was nevertheless legal. By playing the Pass and Don't Pass Line off of each other, you let your place bets make all your money for you, and let the line bets offset each other. If you live long enough in the game, you can make buckets of cash in advance of the end that always comes.
Hedge funds are pretty much the same thing. They play both sides of the market, going long on stocks they feel will pay off in the end, and going short on those they don't. Except for one glaring difference, according to Overstock.com CEO and hedge fund activist Patrick Byrne.
"Craps is a good analogy," he told me via email. Except that hedge funders "are also the croupier and own the casino management and the gaming regulators."
Byrne isn't the only activist convinced of the analogy. Engineer, investor advocate and InvestigatetheSEC.com webmaster David Patch took it much further in an email exchange. "Hedge funds are more and more becoming a craps game," he assented via email, "but the problem is more than just those sitting at the tables become the losers. The industry pools their bets in such concentrated levels that the funds begin to drive the markets to levels beyond the values that would normally be dictated by the fundamentals."
But according to Robert J. Shapiro, Clinton undersecretary of commerce for economic affairs and senior fellow at the Democratic Leadership Council's Progressive Policy Institute, it's not the hedge funds or more particularly their both-sides-against-the-middle strategies that are the problem per se. "The ability to hedge investments encourages investment," he told me by phone. "You get more of it because you can hedge it. It reduces the likelihood that financial institutions are going to find themselves in trouble if the markets go against them, if they guess wrong."
What brings Shapiro, Byrne, Patch and a growing legion of investors, scholars and politicians together is the hyperreal practice known as naked shorting. Recall craps and the Don't Pass Line: In it, you are betting on failure, or as the stock market would term it, devaluation. Well, Wall Street has a Don't Pass Line of its own, and it's called shorting. Just as the Don't Pass player is waiting for a 7 roll and the house to clean you out, short investors are literally banking on the collapse of some stocks. As Shapiro explained it, it's a perfectly legal -- if not, as in craps, uncool -- way of preying on those companies living on borrowed time.
"Short sells are fine because just as you buy a share on the belief that the stock is going up, you short a company on the belief that the price is going down," Shapiro said. "In both cases, you inject information into the market. Short sales are a way of injecting negative information into the market. There's nothing wrong with them; they've been around for a long, long time."
Forget for a moment that we are talking about injecting information, rather than actual money, into the market. Information, as anyone born in the era of the personal computer or Internet understands all too well, is easily manipulated. But if Shapiro's first proposition rings a bit hollow, at least the second one is true. In fact, as Shapiro clarified, it was massive if unregulated short sales, known as naked shorts, that gave the infamous 1929 crash (which in turn spawned the Great Depression, its long, long legs).
"There were a lot of unregulated short sales in the stock market crash; that's true," Shapiro confirmed. "And regulating short sales were part of the initial regulation from the SEC in 1936."
Byrne is a bit more colorful on the subject. "I do think it played a role. Hedge funds were called pools back then. Rich guys got together, pooled their capital and manipulated the stock market. And, in fact, newspapers covered the pools like they would cover sports teams; it was public entertainment. It wasn't too dissimilar from the way the New York Times is trying to make rock stars out of hedge funders today."
In other words, naked shorts are a final confirmation that hyperreality has been with us as long as the Bible. They are virtual transactions, ones that never actually occur.
"In short sales," Shapiro explained, "you don't own the share you sell; instead you borrow it. Then you replace it when you cover the short. If you're right and the price has gone down, you replace it at a lower price, and the difference between what you sold it for and what price you replaced it at is your profit. The problem with a naked short is that you don't borrow the share you sell. You sell it without ever borrowing it. In effect, you invent a share."
If this is beginning to sound like a game of Monopoly built on fake money, that's because it is. By injecting so many invented shares into the market using naked shorting, hedge funds have not only created an economy in which they can manipulate the stocks of companies smaller than Microsoft and Wal-Mart, but they have also created a market in which there are more shares than actual stocks. And that's about as hyperreal as an economy can get.
"It's essentially counterfeiting," Byrne added. "You're creating counterfeit shares in the system. It works like this. In a normal stock transaction, you give me money and I give you stock. And not paper stock anymore. It turns out that there is a loophole in the system: When I come to give you the stock that you bought, if I don't actually have any stock, I can give what is effectively an IOU. Now you never know about this unless you know the right question to ask your broker, but it's possible that all you really have in your account is an IOU from your brokerage account from a different broker working with a hedge fund."
It is precisely this imbalance between real and invented shares that Byrne and others argue is primed to explode the subprime collapse into a full-blown economic depression.
"There are a lot of us who think we are living on the edge of 1929," Byrne continued. "When you consider what's happened with mortgage-backed securities, you get the feeling these might be the first rumblings. There may be more IOUs in the system than there is liquidity, in which case the entire thing is going to vapor lock as soon as it is exposed. One of the healthiest indications of the vibrancy of an economy is capital formation. Seven years ago, America was responsible for 57 percent of IPO capital raised around the world. Now it's down to 16 percent. A national disaster."
Greed is God
So what is the remedy for this historical collusion among money, markets and the managed realities of naked shorting and hedge fund buyouts? A political solution may be on the way, according to Shapiro.
"The SEC has just very recently finally agreed that this is a very serious problem that is destroying some companies and undermining the integrity of the markets," he explained. "They came out with regulations in 2005, which we criticized for having huge loopholes. But this year, the SEC finally said their attempts to address the problem have failed, so they are seriously tightening the regulations. Now we'll see if they enforce them."
But history, as always, likely will teach a different lesson. Consider two events in that regard. The first happened after -- and because of -- the 1929 Crash: The Glass Steagall Act of 1933 mandated the separation of bank types according to their business, after the Senate-led Pecora Commission investigation of the crash found that collusion between commercial and investment banks played a major role in it. That act stood for 66 years, until none other than Bill Clinton repealed it in 1999, and here we are again.
Here's the other lesson: According to a recent Financial Times story, "Barack Obama received more donations from employees of investment banks and hedge funds than from any other sector, with Lehman Brothers, Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan Chase among his biggest sources of support." While Obama has already promised to increase regulation on hedge funds and the tax burden on private equity groups (or today's "pools," as Byrne explained them), if he becomes president, one can imagine he'll be singing quite a different tune if he becomes the first black man in history to run the White House.
Throw in the fact that Rupert Murdoch is set to take over the Wall Street Journal, the paper of record for these subjects and scams, and you have more of the same reality programming.
Murdoch's holdings would probably give the Pecora Commission fits: Not only does he own Fox News and now the Wall Street Journal, to go along with the New York Post, MySpace, DirecTV, HarperCollins, the Sunday Times, TV Guide, the Weekly Standard, 20th Century Fox ... Stop me if you've had enough, but he's also slated to unveil Fox Business Network on Oct. 15, which no doubt will team up with all of his other assets to turn Murdoch into something else besides a propaganda arm of the Bush administration or, in fact, the puppeteer who pulls its strings.
And for those of you who think that may be too broad a generalization, consider this: As the Huffington Post explained, "By taking advantage of a provision in the law that allows expanding companies like Mr. Murdoch's to defer taxes to future years, the News Corp. paid no federal taxes in two of the last four years, and in the other two, it paid only a fraction of what it otherwise would have owed. During that time, Securities and Exchange Commission records show that the News Corp.'s domestic pretax profits topped $9.4 billion."
Can you say free ride?
For those who argue that Murdoch and hedge funds are miles apart, consider this: He knows how to hedge just fine, thanks. After all, it was none other than current Republican presidential candidate Rudolph Guiliani who in 1996 threatened to run Fox News commercial-free on a city-run access channel if Time Warner Cable didn't end its 11-month battle to keep Murdoch out of New York households. It's also important to note, especially if you are Murdoch, that it was Guiliani who implemented RICO statutes to nail Michael Milken with 98 counts of racketeering and fraud. But Murdoch is an old hand at hedging: He's so far funneled $40,000 into Hillary Clinton's campaign. Whoever loses, he wins.
Like I said, nice business if you can get it.
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Comments are closed-
Posted by: yellow on Jul 26, 2007 1:02 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is risky and seems to threaten a new depression. The growing social inequality is worse today than in 1929. The parallels are quite ominous. There could be another crash.
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» RE: The Casino Economy and the Financialization of Global Capitalism.
Posted by: richholland
» RE: We go, they follow
Posted by: NumberSix
» That's not necessarily true
Posted by: cellorelio
» RE: The Casino Economy and the Financialization of Global Capitalism.
Posted by: gazooks
» Zimbabwe and Iceland: canaries in the coal mine
Posted by: Bobsays
» RE: Zimbabwe and Iceland: canaries in the coal mine
Posted by: edith
» The Parallels of the Current Financial Situation with the Great Crash are Ominous.
Posted by: yellow
» Recall also the HUGE influx of IMMIGRATION prior to the Great Depression. Back them America
Posted by: albrechtkrausse
» "...and often unsavory types bringing disease and corruption with them." Ya mean like my ancestors?
Posted by: yellow
» RE: "...and often unsavory types bringing disease and corruption with them." Ya mean like my ancestors?
Posted by: albrechtkrausse
» RE: "...and often unsavory types bringing disease and corruption with them." Ya mean like my ancestors?
Posted by: jmp3954
» RE: Actually Yes I do deny all this because you're a nazi using neo-nazi sources.
Posted by: albrechtkrausse
» Alternet censored my post...
Posted by: Whitecliff
» Stop acting innocent. You know you're a neo-nazi!!
Posted by: yellow
» So...who is today's JP Morgan? (nm)
Posted by: justaguy
» Ummm............JP Morgan/Chase?
Posted by: yellow
» That reply says more about you...
Posted by: justaguy
» Guy you're to sensitive.
Posted by: yellow
» Yellow, you are to [b]o[/b] paranoid...
Posted by: justaguy
» Derivatives
Posted by: Leman
» The $3.5 billion bailout of LTCM in 1998 to prevent global financial panic makes room for doubt.
Posted by: yellow
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Posted by: Temporary on Jul 26, 2007 1:32 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» please elaborate
Posted by: thistleblower
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Posted by: Temporary on Jul 26, 2007 1:35 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Well to be honest...
Posted by: Temporary
» RE: Well to be honest...
Posted by: fearn
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Posted by: Perfectclue on Jul 26, 2007 3:58 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This class despotism is called democracy. NOT!!!!
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» RE: The conspiracy of greed in evolution
Posted by: ray burchard
» RE: The conspiracy of greed in evolution
Posted by: jbur816
» RE: The conspiracy of greed in evolution
Posted by: ray burchard
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Posted by: Whitecliff on Jul 26, 2007 4:23 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
HEY! Maybe Jesus will come back and chase the money changers out of the Temple (America's temple: the NYSE trading floor) again?
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» You're right. There won't be a significant change in our economic system until it disproves itself.
Posted by: zyxwvut
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Posted by: zazupuppy on Jul 26, 2007 5:02 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» No you don't
Posted by: saml
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Posted by: pharmawatcher on Jul 26, 2007 5:26 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Mainstream jourmalism is collapsing because advertising dollars are migrating rapidly to the Internet. Look at today's profit reports on the Tribune Co. and the New York Times Co. It looks like the people the blogosphere loves to hate won't be with us much longer, and more and more people will be getting news from sources like yours. My fear is that the journalistic values the MSM follows on its better days is going to go down the toilet with it.
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» Another gift from the Bushies, just more lies,
Posted by: james2021
» RE: What Experts?
Posted by: leafsong1
» RE: What Experts?
Posted by: jbur816
» You want sources about market fraud?
Posted by: ReallyBearish
» RE: What Experts?
Posted by: Morphizm
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Posted by: Temporary on Jul 26, 2007 5:49 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
real good:)
And China on the other hand is doing good!
REAL GOOD:)
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» RE: The new economic order
Posted by: richholland
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Posted by: gellero on Jul 26, 2007 6:17 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Move your 401K into cash now.....you have been warned!!
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» RE: you can run but you can't hide
Posted by: solrev
» RE: you can run but you can't hide
Posted by: solrev
» Cash?
Posted by: justaguy
Comments are closed-
Posted by: zooeyhall on Jul 26, 2007 6:25 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In addition to the issues raised in this article, I would like to add another. Many historical economists agree that there were serious, hidden, and ignored problems in the economy in the twenties--well before the crash of '29. One of the most important--and one that is all to evident today--was the declining real purchasing power of the working class. Even though businesses and CEOs were making record amounts of money, little of the benefits went to labor. Ordinary people could not then buy the ever increasing glut of consumer goods. Wealth disparity in American society reached levels that weren't exceeded until the present day.
And of course there was the prevalent preaching that unrestrained capitalism would cure all. And if you weren't in a rising boat---well, you just were too lazy or incompetent to get in on the gravy!
Add to that a media filled with fluff reporting and a "bread and circuses" entertainment for the masses--well, the 1920's are looking alot like American in the first decade of the 21st century!
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» The Sainted FDR Deepened A Depression That We Are About To Repeat
Posted by: edith
» Right wing rubbish
Posted by: ReallyBearish
» Maybe Bush et al WANT a crash...
Posted by: ordaj
» My idiot friends? On what planet would we find them?
Posted by: edith
» Edith this is utterly false. FDR expanded the economy and achieved high growth without inflation.
Posted by: yellow
» Thanks for the memories, Hirohito!
Posted by: edith
» Instead of answering my posts we get the Edith Crapola
Posted by: ReallyBearish
» edith is a bushie-
Posted by: WitchyNy
» If only it were that simple....
Posted by: edith
» Bearish about the truth?
Posted by: edith
» RE: Instead of answering my posts we get the Edith Crapola - I didn't answer, I just uprated
Posted by: UnEasyOne
» RE: Thanks for the memories, Hirohito!
Posted by: Morphizm
» No problem, Gullible.
Posted by: edith
» RE: Thanks for the memories, Hirohito!
Posted by: heid
» FDR fought the Great Depression and Won. The War also helped.
Posted by: yellow
» John Steinbeck was a liar....My dad was full of it...
Posted by: zooeyhall
» RE: John Steinbeck was a liar....My dad was full of it...
Posted by: heid
Comments are closed-
Posted by: djnoll on Jul 26, 2007 6:47 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So now we have have had junk bonds and hedge funds that investment houses have used to support investments. We have people like Russ Whitney and Carlton Sheets who sell people programs that encourage them to invest in real estate and make people prey for subprime loans. Of course they make their money from selling you the programs because they have moved on to bigger and more involved investments, using other people's money to create money. Then, when the markets begin to fall, these people who have mastered the economic game bail out, and leave the rest of us to hold the pieces as they crash around our heads.
The government is not going to step in and regulate anything. They think that this "growing" economy of wealth is going to last forever if they just keep us at war. They are right to a certain extent, but when baby boomers begin cashing in those IRAs and 401(k)s around 2017, billions of dollars are going to be needed to meet the demand, and when those dollars are not real....guess what? DEPRESSION! and one that will make the 1929 Great Depression look like a Sunday School picnic. And the likes of Rupert Murdoch will be no where to be seen, right along with his wealthy pals the Bushes and the Cheneys of this world.
Not only should we be cashing in and putting our money into gold and other tangible investments, we should be getting 100% out of debt as quickly as possible and making sure that we can feed and support ourselves adequately. We should be creating communities that work together to care and support each other with food, supplies, emergency services. We should be preparing ourselves to help our neighboring communities as a way of protecting ourselves. When the next Depression happens, it will be coupled with a level of violence that will be difficult to suppress. In short, folks, it will be a catharsis that will either cleanse this country of its apathy and create a better nation, or it will be the end of this country in a bloody battle to the death. The choice is still ours, but only if we listen to people like this author of the article, and start to prepare now.
http://www.standanddeliveramerica.com
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» RE: or we can just fiddle
Posted by: solrev
» RE: Like a tidal wave, over 30 years to build...
Posted by: mrsmagoo
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Posted by: wmGreybeard on Jul 26, 2007 7:17 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When any thing gets a bad reputation they change the name.. Pool becomes hedge fund.. Philip Morris becomes Altria ( cute innocent sounding name) ect. ect.
Maybe another 1929 would be a good thing. Paper money would be worthless, property titles are only pieces of paper like our constitution. The rich can't eat gold.
It will be a horrible mess for most of us, but if the earth is not destroyed by nuclear war, there are some including the indigenous tribes who will survive and perhaps develop a better society than we have.
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» Let Them Eat Gold?
Posted by: edith
» And who has the gold, Edith?
Posted by: ReallyBearish
» Bush is not my friend: I don't like Big Federal Spenders
Posted by: edith
» RE: And don't forget--Our constitution is just a piece of shredded paper...
Posted by: realmuzik
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Posted by: Bobsays on Jul 26, 2007 7:32 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Right now, the UK economy is experiencing growing inflation for everything (except most peoples salaries of course): food, housing, transport - it is all going up at a higher rate than the 'official' inflation. That is what they call a 'crack-up boom' - the last surge of greed and panic before it all implodes. It always gets worse before the crash. As people freak out, they pile into houses in order to protect their wealth, driving up prices and massively increasing debt. But in the end a correction comes, because, let's be honest, the UK is mostly a toilet for most people. It is a less-than-inspiring place and its economy is now centered around funny money and welfare provision. Not a super-great way to do things.
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Posted by: Temporary on Jul 26, 2007 7:56 AM
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Posted by: Temporary on Jul 26, 2007 8:02 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
and so are Europes borders...
but thank god, CHINA is still going!!!
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Posted by: andy on Jul 26, 2007 8:03 AM
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» RE: Does this mean we shoud invest in gold???? Or???
Posted by: sphoenix
» Invest in Canned Goods
Posted by: monkopotamus
» RE: Does this mean we shoud invest in gold????
Posted by: fritson
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Posted by: form516 on Jul 26, 2007 8:21 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Can't eat gold..
Posted by: cellorelio
» RE: Can't eat gold..
Posted by: ReallyBearish
» RE: Can't eat gold..
Posted by: Ysiad
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Trazom on Jul 26, 2007 8:28 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
1) The United States is now a net energy importer, and has been ever since the fifties. We import 5x energy than what we export. I'm assuming this is mostly petroleum (can't find the statistics). Not only that, but we also are net consumers of energy, consuming 98 quadrillion BTU per year compared to producing 72 quad BTU. with the difference coming from imports. And the differences are only growing. In 2000 we consumed 38 quad BTU worth of petroleum compared with 1929 levels of only 6 quad BTU. What does this all mean? It means that we have another nail in the coffin, for if a depression ensued and got really really nasty, all things would go out the window except energy, which would be King. All of the things we take for granted, which need such enormous amounts, would be gone in a puff of smoke, leaving a hundred million automobiles with no gas to put in the tanks, and a large section of suburbia (which didn't really exist back then) virtually uninhabitable. Those who would be lucky enough to get their hands on some gasoline will be pay very steep prices, and those who cannot will simply suffer.
2) A much larger percentage of Americans have mortgages (2/3 of all households in the US). Not having statistics on this from 1929, I would venture a guess that it is somewhere near 1/3 or even less. And those who did buy houses back then often payed entirely in cash, completely unthinkable today for everyone but the rich. So in addition to a depression which wipes out millions of jobs almost overnight, there is now even less solace for these millions of additional homeowners who will now be crushed by the weight of their mortgage debt.
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» RE: Contrasts between 1929 and 2007
Posted by: jbur816
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Posted by: davcrock on Jul 26, 2007 8:31 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If the author is so sure that we are on the way to financial collapse, build a financial model, show the assumptions, and publish the results. Otherwise, quite making spurious comparisons to a very different time and financial environment and quit fear mongering over something that you don't understand.
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» SO, you want proof...
Posted by: Bobsays
» More proof
Posted by: ReallyBearish
» RE: Crappy article
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: Crappy article
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: Crappy article
Posted by: VZEQICVA
Comments are closed-
Posted by: greenman on Jul 26, 2007 9:01 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Now you never know about this unless you know the right question to ask your broker, but it's possible that all you really have in your account is an IOU from your brokerage account from a different broker working with a hedge fund."
So, what's the magic question?
Greenman
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» RE: The BIG QUESTION is...
Posted by: VZEQICVA
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Posted by: VZEQICVA on Jul 26, 2007 9:25 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Most of us should be saving, not so called investing. If you follow 1 share of stock in a single company you'll see a lot more than a share of stock. It's complicated. Thanks, ANNA
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Posted by: VZEQICVA on Jul 26, 2007 9:25 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Most of us should be saving, not so called investing. If you follow 1 share of stock in a single company you'll see a lot more than a share of stock. It's complicated. Thanks, ANNA
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Posted by: Realist 2 on Jul 26, 2007 9:29 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
www.erols.com/suttonbear
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Posted by: Temporary on Jul 26, 2007 9:33 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Just enough time for China to play a "Reagan" on Bushes America;)
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» One things for sure!
Posted by: Temporary
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Posted by: ReallyBearish on Jul 26, 2007 9:47 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» scary stuff
Posted by: mcooley
» Answer
Posted by: ReallyBearish
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Posted by: mcooley on Jul 26, 2007 9:55 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Zeitgeist: Part 3 of this video lays it all out:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=497251819335380093
You might then be intrigued to spend the time to watch the whole thing here:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5547481422995115331
Based on view counts, this video is currently rated #8, but it doesn't appear on google's "Top 100" list?
I wonder why?
Maybe for the same reason google took down the video
"America: Freedom to Fascism" after it hit over 3 million views and then relisted it with a new count starting at zero:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1656880303867390173
Google - with their Orwellian corporate motto of "Do No Evil" seems to not want you to know what other people are actually watching. If you look at their "Top 100" list - it is basically all "tits-n-ass" videos - most of which have less hits than Zeitgeist.
Why is google lying to you?
Please watch these two videos while you still can.
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» RE: WATCH: ZEIGEIST The Movie
Posted by: jbur816
» Great - thanks! Maybe check out these next?
Posted by: mcooley
» RE: Great - thanks! Maybe check out these next?
Posted by: jbur816
» Some more good information here
Posted by: mcooley
» RE: WATCH: ZEIGEIST The Movie
Posted by: pjlewis_451
» Thanks both of you for watching - please spread the word
Posted by: mcooley
» RE: WATCH: ZEIGEIST The Movie
Posted by: A rope leash
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Posted by: Temporary on Jul 26, 2007 9:59 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Going...
still going...
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Posted by: leemiller38 on Jul 26, 2007 10:06 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I much prefer a doomsday depression to a nuclear war and I am betting that the powers what be do too, though they seem to be a bunch of morons. It will wring out the excess in population in a hurry, but some of nature will survive and the planet will recover in a few million years though it will never be the beautiful place it was before we evolved.
However, we should be getting nuclear weapons dismantled just in case one of our political morons goes berserk. The dismantling will cost money and energy and can be added to our World Gross Product to show we are still growing the economy!
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Posted by: Temporary on Jul 26, 2007 10:17 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: American economy
Posted by: Temporary
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Posted by: Temporary on Jul 26, 2007 10:34 AM
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Posted by: bob t on Jul 26, 2007 10:41 AM
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But then Bush said he would do that and he has.
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Posted by: american on Jul 26, 2007 10:47 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If what you do doesn't actually add value, you are a parasite.
To think, this set actually thinks they are the "beautiful people."
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Posted by: HughScott on Jul 26, 2007 11:23 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Americans had better pray that Red China keeps buying U.S. bonds. But then, President Bush says not to worry. And why should we? He's been right about everything else.
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Posted by: persian on Jul 26, 2007 12:14 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Wishful thinking
Posted by: Morphizm
» RE: Wishful thinking
Posted by: mommy64
» You obviously don't understand markets
Posted by: ReallyBearish
» The sky is falling everyone , buy gold .
Posted by: persian
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Posted by: yellow on Jul 26, 2007 12:40 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» British political economist Susan Strange took it even further
Posted by: Bobsays
» Susan Strange has been around for a long time. She is worth reading.
Posted by: yellow
Comments are closed-
Posted by: babs on Jul 26, 2007 1:33 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
These dire warnings were publicized in the U.K., Canada, and other media markets, but I guess not in America. Maybe Bush vetoed that story too...
but hey, the Bushes will never miss a meal so what the hell do they care! Scotch and cigars in Dubai and "so long suckers, thanks for the ride".
it has been the crime of the century indeed and it continues to amaze and stupify the world.
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Posted by: dmaciewski on Jul 26, 2007 1:43 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Temporary on Jul 26, 2007 6:46 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
down...
down...
all the way to the bottom!
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Posted by: Temporary on Jul 26, 2007 6:50 PM
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Posted by: Temporary on Jul 26, 2007 6:53 PM
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Posted by: dejavu2 on Jul 26, 2007 7:37 PM
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Posted by: slydad on Jul 26, 2007 7:47 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Everyone knows that diverting funds earmarked for the great black hole of the government (tax cuts) to the private sector will improve the economic scene. And the leftists have been bombarding us with whining, bitching and moaning about everything from "it only benefited the rich" to "it's making the poor poorer" ever since it was done. None of that is true though. The tax cuts benefited everyone,and thanks to the dynamics of a free market, the poor in our country are richer than the middle class in most other countries.
Now that the tax cuts have been vindicated by a vibrant economy, they have to now try to convince us that it is somehow just a mirage.
It won't work though . . . bye, bye . . .
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» Typical Trash-Talk from the Bogus "Right"
Posted by: Hal
» You guys never let me down.
Posted by: slydad
» You’re PROJECTING Big-Time, Bubbles…
Posted by: Hal
» Yea, well I couldn't resist.
Posted by: slydad
» True Lies @ the Parasite State?
Posted by: Hal
» Harsh? My skin is thicker than that.
Posted by: slydad
» Try This On...
Posted by: Hal
» You got me!
Posted by: slydad
» RE: You got me!
Posted by: Hal
» You need help.
Posted by: slydad
» You need a clue
Posted by: Hal
» RE: You got me!
Posted by: Dartagnan
» See what I mean?
Posted by: slydad
» RE: Typical Communist Propaganda
Posted by: incenseman
» “Only Thing We Have to Fear Is Fear Itself”
Posted by: slydad
» HA, HA, HA, HA, HA!!!!
Posted by: ReallyBearish
» Sorry dude . . .
Posted by: slydad
» I'm glad you find the economy to be so bullish. Most people trying to support families do not!!
Posted by: yellow
» I get the sense that you're trying to hurt my feelings.
Posted by: slydad
» The paltry tax savings by the poor was destroyed by regressive state, property and sales taxes.
Posted by: yellow
» That's crap!
Posted by: slydad
» The rich are taxed low and the poor make up the shortfall. The Feds no longer redistribute income!!
Posted by: yellow
» If that's so . . .
Posted by: slydad
» It is you who have your facts wrong. Check sources other than Republican Party campaign brochures!!
Posted by: yellow
» You mean the Clinton induced recession?
Posted by: slydad
» As usual your claims are absurd. Much of what you say shows that most poor are newly poor.
Posted by: yellow
» That just went right over your head.
Posted by: slydad
» You need to recheck your facts too.
Posted by: slydad
» Slydad, Your head's in the sand. Worse yet you think supporting Bush is a moral imperative.
Posted by: yellow
» Do you know such a Christian?
Posted by: slydad
» RE: Do you know such a Christian?
Posted by: Morphizm
» You can read? How is that being as you're so blind?
Posted by: slydad
» You're really just spewing old discredited nonsense. No one buys it because it is so unrealistic.
Posted by: yellow
» How much income tax does a person making $15k pay in taxes?
Posted by: slydad
» Like most Right-wingers you lie and you don't listen to people when they try to reason with you.
Posted by: yellow
» And wealth should be redistributed why?
Posted by: slydad
» Wealth Redistribution in Modern Capitalism isn't "Marxist" but Keynsian. It built the Middle Class.
Posted by: yellow
» Wow!
Posted by: slydad
Comments are closed-
Posted by: vzn on Jul 26, 2007 8:45 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
in finance,
but why fault him? its true of most americans.
there is widespread ignorance of the basic mechanics of our
money/finance system.. is that a bug, or a feature? by accident, or by design?
what do you do if your underlying money system itself is a giant ponzi scheme?
note that ron paul is the only presidential candidate courageous enough to challenge the federal reserve sham.
consider a free electronic paper I wrote called
fractional reserve banking as economic parasitism
endorsed by two phd economists. printed in nexus
magazine, 60k world circulation. #1 top downloaded
economics paper. used by economics
teacher in australia as standard classroom material.
more info on request.
recent supporting material:
- confessions of an economic hit man by Perkins
- money as debt video by Grignon
- Congressman pres candidate Dennis Kucinich
at last years
2005 Monetary Reform Conference
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» Fed in the hands of Politicians or private bankers??
Posted by: andy
» Politicians in the Hands of the "Fed" that is in Hands of Private Cartel Bankers (NM)
Posted by: Hal
» More Cracker "Economics" from the Usual Suspects. Why don't you folks just give it a rest already?
Posted by: yellow
» More "Cracker" Kool-Aid from "Yellow"...
Posted by: Hal
» Your Crackerism is quite unsubstantiated. It's full of racist code, innuendo, namecalling and lies.
Posted by: yellow
» Lamenting The alleged loss of the Dollar's value makes sense if you never expect any price changes.
Posted by: yellow
» More "Yellow" Recycled Kool-aid
Posted by: Hal
» Yellow probably denies the MAJOR role that Jews had in the founding of the USSR too
Posted by: Whitecliff
» RE: Fed in the hands of Politicians or private bankers??
Posted by: dmaciewski
» RE: fractional reserve banking as economic parasitism
Posted by: dmaciewski
» Monopoly Power is the real parasite. Not the Government or the FED.
Posted by: yellow
» Stunning...
Posted by: justaguy
» Credit growth is not the policy of the FED. Credit growth is part of the housing bubble.
Posted by: yellow
» Keep reading yellow...
Posted by: justaguy
» You may be correct but the real story has nothing to do with banks or fractional reserve lending.
Posted by: yellow
» No.
Posted by: justaguy
» When Greenspan lowered the interest rate inflation was less than 3% and there was a stalled economy!
Posted by: yellow
» Maybe I was wrong. I don't think you will get it after all.
Posted by: justaguy
» I'm not racist or Zionist. BTW, are you a Saudi? Who else would label me Zionist over nothing?
Posted by: yellow
» Projection again. Manichaen paranoia. Yellow style racism. Cowardice.
Posted by: justaguy
» Wallay Kumb Salam, Habbibi!!
Posted by: yellow
Comments are closed-
Posted by: sofla100 on Jul 26, 2007 9:09 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Bretton woods 1944, gold standard used up till early80s
Posted by: andy
» Same crap, different day from the idiot right
Posted by: ReallyBearish
» RE: Same crap, different day from the idiot right
Posted by: dover23
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Temporary on Jul 27, 2007 1:51 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: davyy on Jul 27, 2007 7:52 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
While it is feasible that the volume of phantom shorts might overwhelm the float available, it is also true that each share sold short carries an obligation to buy that stock.
While it may also be possible for a hedge fund, or other quasi institution to enter into an agreement with itself, although the rules state that any such trading company must report these shares, the IRS would certainly catch up to them at audit time.
What every short seller knows is that the market is rigged to go higher, and has a number of protective devices to keep it from going lower. The inborn tendency in 99.9% of all cases is to manipulate stocks higher. That's where the money is made, shorting is an activity mostly used for hedging purposes, and by occasional shorting specialists who make a living exposing companies whose earnings and business model are way out of line with the fundamentals.
A fairer market would be on the model of the commodity market, where every long position that is opened requires an opposite short position. Wall St doesn't want that because it denies them the ability to create wealth out of thin air, (ponzi finance) with the help of a bevy of regulations to aid them. When the thing works the same way in the other direction they scream foul. Too bad.
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» Still more bunk from the morons
Posted by: ReallyBearish
» Exactly right (nm)
Posted by: justaguy
» RE: There are no Naked Shorts
Posted by: Morphizm
Comments are closed-
Posted by: drmflorida on Jul 27, 2007 10:18 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: if history repeats itself....
Posted by: WitchyNy
» RE: if history repeats itself....
Posted by: dover23
Comments are closed-
Posted by: victoria794 on Jul 28, 2007 10:14 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Income producing property.
Posted by: justaguy
Comments are closed-
Posted by: williameon on Jul 29, 2007 7:37 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When we stop looking at the Neo-Cons and start looking at the system that created them and is still behind them, we will begin to solve the problem.
The present system has been co-opted by special interest.
The special economic interests of wealthy industrialists. Capital interests.
Only by redistributing the abundance of the system wealth to the many, instead of the few, will we begin to make change things.
What changes?
To make the System fair.
We must level the playing field.
Take the Money out of politics.
Stop special interest from buying our government officials.
Break up the Media Conglomerates
A open, locally owned and run, Media is essential
To the survival of our country.
Level the playing field in Politics
By public financing of all elections.
Stop the Revolving door in Washington.
Ban corporate lobbyists from Government.
Change the one party ‘Corpirate’ system
To a true Multi party system.
Decentralize:
The Media Conglomerates
Manufacturing
Farming
and
Energy Production
Have a Armed Forces for defensive purposes only.
Stop Corporate Welfare!
Reinstitute all
The Bush & Co Tax breaks
Close all Tax Loopholes.
End the Tax Shelters.
With all of these savings
Guarantee:
Fairness
Universal Health care
A Livable wage
A clean environment
Education
Housing
And
Subsidence
To all.
The richest country in the world surely can afford these things,
That our poorer neighbors easily provide.
Stop Bullying the World.
Let’s start acting Compassionate
Good Deeds are a lot stronger than empty rhetoric.
Take care of our own first.
We are measured by how we treat the least amongst us.
The Poor
Homeless
And
The Sick!
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» Excellent post! That's exactly what's needed. n/t
Posted by: Bev
Comments are closed-
Posted by: ReallyBearish on Jul 29, 2007 11:03 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Read up on the Kondratiev Wave if you want to learn something. In any event, I can supply more that enough statistics showing that the stock market bubble was about to bring down the economy (debt vs. GDP, stock capitalization vs. GDP, dollar volume vs. GDP, etc.)
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» Debt and Speculation were behind the economic instability leading to the Great Depression.
Posted by: yellow
» You're correct, but...
Posted by: ReallyBearish
» Yep again.
Posted by: justaguy
» Debt creation is a privatized mode of Keynesian pump priming a chronically stagnant economy.
Posted by: yellow
» yellow always obsessed with "a growing economy" despite the negative environmental consequences
Posted by: Whitecliff
» Slow population growth is a non-issue. We need economic growth. There is no going back 150 years.
Posted by: yellow
» And yea verily, Yellow spake thus....
Posted by: justaguy
» RE: Debt and Speculation were behind the economic instability leading to the Great Depression.
Posted by: richholland
» It will lead to another major depression. This time it could dwarf the last one by quite a bit.
Posted by: yellow
Comments are closed-
Posted by: orion0s on Jul 29, 2007 11:53 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The balances you carry in your checking account,savings account,
certificate of deposit,or whatever,are simply figures noted on a
paper ledger or a computer disk.Neither your bank nor your,savings
and loan(S&L)has on hand the actual cash you deposited with it.
That money was loaned to someone else,who subsequently set up
a checking account or savings account and also became both
creditor and debtor of the bank or savings and loan involved in the
transaction.Right on down the line.
Thus,the banking system is based upon credit and the continued
expansion of credit.When debt levels become excessive and borrowers
can not longer repay their loans,the system collapses like a series
of falling dominos(slowly at first-though accelerating toward the
end when there is a mad scramble or panic by all depositors to get
the very imited supply of cash available.
remember recently the Argentinians?
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Posted by: Morphizm on Jul 30, 2007 12:01 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: hetorical question
Posted by: saml
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Posted by: Whitecliff on Jul 31, 2007 10:50 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The week before that the DOW hit 14,000...the highest it has ever been.
Up, down, up, down, up, down...what gives? Sounds like the market is suffering from bipolar disorder.
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Posted by: Reader11722 on Aug 1, 2007 11:43 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They violate the 1st Amendment by opening mail, caging demonstrators and banning books like "America Deceived" from Amazon.
They violate the 2nd Amendment by confiscating guns during Katrina.
They violate the 4th Amendment by conducting warrant-less wiretaps.
They violate the 5th and 6th Amendment by suspending habeas corpus.
They violate the 8th Amendment by torturing.
They violate the entire Constitution by starting 2 illegal wars based on lies and on behalf of a foriegn gov't.
Support Dr. Ron Paul and end this madness.
Last link (unless Stark County District Library caves to the gov't and drops the title):
America Deceived (book)
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» Enough already!! Paper money is ok if you don't print too much of it.
Posted by: yellow
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Posted by: williameon on Aug 2, 2007 3:48 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The economy stops working
That is what happened in the twenties and
That is what is happening now.
History repeats itself
If you are too ignorant to learn from past mistakes.
Greed is a negative human trait
It has failed the American people.
Rampant Corporate Greed
Has failed us all.
The largest transfer of wealth in the history of the world
Is taking place right now.
From the people to
“Corpirate’ CEO’s.
Who rip people off for Fun and Profit!
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Posted by: mommy64 on Aug 2, 2007 3:45 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: yellow on Jul 26, 2007 1:02 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is risky and seems to threaten a new depression. The growing social inequality is worse today than in 1929. The parallels are quite ominous. There could be another crash.
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» RE: The Casino Economy and the Financialization of Global Capitalism.
Posted by: richholland
» RE: We go, they follow
Posted by: NumberSix
» That's not necessarily true
Posted by: cellorelio
» RE: The Casino Economy and the Financialization of Global Capitalism.
Posted by: gazooks
» Zimbabwe and Iceland: canaries in the coal mine
Posted by: Bobsays
» RE: Zimbabwe and Iceland: canaries in the coal mine
Posted by: edith
» The Parallels of the Current Financial Situation with the Great Crash are Ominous.
Posted by: yellow
» Recall also the HUGE influx of IMMIGRATION prior to the Great Depression. Back them America
Posted by: albrechtkrausse
» "...and often unsavory types bringing disease and corruption with them." Ya mean like my ancestors?
Posted by: yellow
» RE: "...and often unsavory types bringing disease and corruption with them." Ya mean like my ancestors?
Posted by: albrechtkrausse
» RE: "...and often unsavory types bringing disease and corruption with them." Ya mean like my ancestors?
Posted by: jmp3954
» RE: Actually Yes I do deny all this because you're a nazi using neo-nazi sources.
Posted by: albrechtkrausse
» Alternet censored my post...
Posted by: Whitecliff
» Stop acting innocent. You know you're a neo-nazi!!
Posted by: yellow
» So...who is today's JP Morgan? (nm)
Posted by: justaguy
» Ummm............JP Morgan/Chase?
Posted by: yellow
» That reply says more about you...
Posted by: justaguy
» Guy you're to sensitive.
Posted by: yellow
» Yellow, you are to [b]o[/b] paranoid...
Posted by: justaguy
» Derivatives
Posted by: Leman
» The $3.5 billion bailout of LTCM in 1998 to prevent global financial panic makes room for doubt.
Posted by: yellow
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Temporary on Jul 26, 2007 1:32 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» please elaborate
Posted by: thistleblower
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Temporary on Jul 26, 2007 1:35 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Well to be honest...
Posted by: Temporary
» RE: Well to be honest...
Posted by: fearn
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Perfectclue on Jul 26, 2007 3:58 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This class despotism is called democracy. NOT!!!!
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» RE: The conspiracy of greed in evolution
Posted by: ray burchard
» RE: The conspiracy of greed in evolution
Posted by: jbur816
» RE: The conspiracy of greed in evolution
Posted by: ray burchard
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Whitecliff on Jul 26, 2007 4:23 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
HEY! Maybe Jesus will come back and chase the money changers out of the Temple (America's temple: the NYSE trading floor) again?
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» You're right. There won't be a significant change in our economic system until it disproves itself.
Posted by: zyxwvut
Comments are closed-
Posted by: zazupuppy on Jul 26, 2007 5:02 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» No you don't
Posted by: saml
Comments are closed-
Posted by: pharmawatcher on Jul 26, 2007 5:26 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Mainstream jourmalism is collapsing because advertising dollars are migrating rapidly to the Internet. Look at today's profit reports on the Tribune Co. and the New York Times Co. It looks like the people the blogosphere loves to hate won't be with us much longer, and more and more people will be getting news from sources like yours. My fear is that the journalistic values the MSM follows on its better days is going to go down the toilet with it.
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» Another gift from the Bushies, just more lies,
Posted by: james2021
» RE: What Experts?
Posted by: leafsong1
» RE: What Experts?
Posted by: jbur816
» You want sources about market fraud?
Posted by: ReallyBearish
» RE: What Experts?
Posted by: Morphizm
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Temporary on Jul 26, 2007 5:49 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
real good:)
And China on the other hand is doing good!
REAL GOOD:)
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» RE: The new economic order
Posted by: richholland
Comments are closed-
Posted by: gellero on Jul 26, 2007 6:17 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Move your 401K into cash now.....you have been warned!!
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» RE: you can run but you can't hide
Posted by: solrev
» RE: you can run but you can't hide
Posted by: solrev
» Cash?
Posted by: justaguy
Comments are closed-
Posted by: zooeyhall on Jul 26, 2007 6:25 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In addition to the issues raised in this article, I would like to add another. Many historical economists agree that there were serious, hidden, and ignored problems in the economy in the twenties--well before the crash of '29. One of the most important--and one that is all to evident today--was the declining real purchasing power of the working class. Even though businesses and CEOs were making record amounts of money, little of the benefits went to labor. Ordinary people could not then buy the ever increasing glut of consumer goods. Wealth disparity in American society reached levels that weren't exceeded until the present day.
And of course there was the prevalent preaching that unrestrained capitalism would cure all. And if you weren't in a rising boat---well, you just were too lazy or incompetent to get in on the gravy!
Add to that a media filled with fluff reporting and a "bread and circuses" entertainment for the masses--well, the 1920's are looking alot like American in the first decade of the 21st century!
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» The Sainted FDR Deepened A Depression That We Are About To Repeat
Posted by: edith
» Right wing rubbish
Posted by: ReallyBearish
» Maybe Bush et al WANT a crash...
Posted by: ordaj
» My idiot friends? On what planet would we find them?
Posted by: edith
» Edith this is utterly false. FDR expanded the economy and achieved high growth without inflation.
Posted by: yellow
» Thanks for the memories, Hirohito!
Posted by: edith
» Instead of answering my posts we get the Edith Crapola
Posted by: ReallyBearish
» edith is a bushie-
Posted by: WitchyNy
» If only it were that simple....
Posted by: edith
» Bearish about the truth?
Posted by: edith
» RE: Instead of answering my posts we get the Edith Crapola - I didn't answer, I just uprated
Posted by: UnEasyOne
» RE: Thanks for the memories, Hirohito!
Posted by: Morphizm
» No problem, Gullible.
Posted by: edith
» RE: Thanks for the memories, Hirohito!
Posted by: heid
» FDR fought the Great Depression and Won. The War also helped.
Posted by: yellow
» John Steinbeck was a liar....My dad was full of it...
Posted by: zooeyhall
» RE: John Steinbeck was a liar....My dad was full of it...
Posted by: heid
Comments are closed-
Posted by: djnoll on Jul 26, 2007 6:47 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So now we have have had junk bonds and hedge funds that investment houses have used to support investments. We have people like Russ Whitney and Carlton Sheets who sell people programs that encourage them to invest in real estate and make people prey for subprime loans. Of course they make their money from selling you the programs because they have moved on to bigger and more involved investments, using other people's money to create money. Then, when the markets begin to fall, these people who have mastered the economic game bail out, and leave the rest of us to hold the pieces as they crash around our heads.
The government is not going to step in and regulate anything. They think that this "growing" economy of wealth is going to last forever if they just keep us at war. They are right to a certain extent, but when baby boomers begin cashing in those IRAs and 401(k)s around 2017, billions of dollars are going to be needed to meet the demand, and when those dollars are not real....guess what? DEPRESSION! and one that will make the 1929 Great Depression look like a Sunday School picnic. And the likes of Rupert Murdoch will be no where to be seen, right along with his wealthy pals the Bushes and the Cheneys of this world.
Not only should we be cashing in and putting our money into gold and other tangible investments, we should be getting 100% out of debt as quickly as possible and making sure that we can feed and support ourselves adequately. We should be creating communities that work together to care and support each other with food, supplies, emergency services. We should be preparing ourselves to help our neighboring communities as a way of protecting ourselves. When the next Depression happens, it will be coupled with a level of violence that will be difficult to suppress. In short, folks, it will be a catharsis that will either cleanse this country of its apathy and create a better nation, or it will be the end of this country in a bloody battle to the death. The choice is still ours, but only if we listen to people like this author of the article, and start to prepare now.
http://www.standanddeliveramerica.com
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» RE: or we can just fiddle
Posted by: solrev
» RE: Like a tidal wave, over 30 years to build...
Posted by: mrsmagoo
Comments are closed-
Posted by: wmGreybeard on Jul 26, 2007 7:17 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When any thing gets a bad reputation they change the name.. Pool becomes hedge fund.. Philip Morris becomes Altria ( cute innocent sounding name) ect. ect.
Maybe another 1929 would be a good thing. Paper money would be worthless, property titles are only pieces of paper like our constitution. The rich can't eat gold.
It will be a horrible mess for most of us, but if the earth is not destroyed by nuclear war, there are some including the indigenous tribes who will survive and perhaps develop a better society than we have.
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» Let Them Eat Gold?
Posted by: edith
» And who has the gold, Edith?
Posted by: ReallyBearish
» Bush is not my friend: I don't like Big Federal Spenders
Posted by: edith
» RE: And don't forget--Our constitution is just a piece of shredded paper...
Posted by: realmuzik
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Bobsays on Jul 26, 2007 7:32 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Right now, the UK economy is experiencing growing inflation for everything (except most peoples salaries of course): food, housing, transport - it is all going up at a higher rate than the 'official' inflation. That is what they call a 'crack-up boom' - the last surge of greed and panic before it all implodes. It always gets worse before the crash. As people freak out, they pile into houses in order to protect their wealth, driving up prices and massively increasing debt. But in the end a correction comes, because, let's be honest, the UK is mostly a toilet for most people. It is a less-than-inspiring place and its economy is now centered around funny money and welfare provision. Not a super-great way to do things.
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Posted by: Temporary on Jul 26, 2007 7:56 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Temporary on Jul 26, 2007 8:02 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
and so are Europes borders...
but thank god, CHINA is still going!!!
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Posted by: andy on Jul 26, 2007 8:03 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Does this mean we shoud invest in gold???? Or???
Posted by: sphoenix
» Invest in Canned Goods
Posted by: monkopotamus
» RE: Does this mean we shoud invest in gold????
Posted by: fritson
Comments are closed-
Posted by: form516 on Jul 26, 2007 8:21 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Can't eat gold..
Posted by: cellorelio
» RE: Can't eat gold..
Posted by: ReallyBearish
» RE: Can't eat gold..
Posted by: Ysiad
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Trazom on Jul 26, 2007 8:28 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
1) The United States is now a net energy importer, and has been ever since the fifties. We import 5x energy than what we export. I'm assuming this is mostly petroleum (can't find the statistics). Not only that, but we also are net consumers of energy, consuming 98 quadrillion BTU per year compared to producing 72 quad BTU. with the difference coming from imports. And the differences are only growing. In 2000 we consumed 38 quad BTU worth of petroleum compared with 1929 levels of only 6 quad BTU. What does this all mean? It means that we have another nail in the coffin, for if a depression ensued and got really really nasty, all things would go out the window except energy, which would be King. All of the things we take for granted, which need such enormous amounts, would be gone in a puff of smoke, leaving a hundred million automobiles with no gas to put in the tanks, and a large section of suburbia (which didn't really exist back then) virtually uninhabitable. Those who would be lucky enough to get their hands on some gasoline will be pay very steep prices, and those who cannot will simply suffer.
2) A much larger percentage of Americans have mortgages (2/3 of all households in the US). Not having statistics on this from 1929, I would venture a guess that it is somewhere near 1/3 or even less. And those who did buy houses back then often payed entirely in cash, completely unthinkable today for everyone but the rich. So in addition to a depression which wipes out millions of jobs almost overnight, there is now even less solace for these millions of additional homeowners who will now be crushed by the weight of their mortgage debt.
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» RE: Contrasts between 1929 and 2007
Posted by: jbur816
Comments are closed-
Posted by: davcrock on Jul 26, 2007 8:31 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If the author is so sure that we are on the way to financial collapse, build a financial model, show the assumptions, and publish the results. Otherwise, quite making spurious comparisons to a very different time and financial environment and quit fear mongering over something that you don't understand.
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» SO, you want proof...
Posted by: Bobsays
» More proof
Posted by: ReallyBearish
» RE: Crappy article
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: Crappy article
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: Crappy article
Posted by: VZEQICVA
Comments are closed-
Posted by: greenman on Jul 26, 2007 9:01 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Now you never know about this unless you know the right question to ask your broker, but it's possible that all you really have in your account is an IOU from your brokerage account from a different broker working with a hedge fund."
So, what's the magic question?
Greenman
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» RE: The BIG QUESTION is...
Posted by: VZEQICVA
Comments are closed-
Posted by: VZEQICVA on Jul 26, 2007 9:25 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Most of us should be saving, not so called investing. If you follow 1 share of stock in a single company you'll see a lot more than a share of stock. It's complicated. Thanks, ANNA
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Posted by: VZEQICVA on Jul 26, 2007 9:25 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Most of us should be saving, not so called investing. If you follow 1 share of stock in a single company you'll see a lot more than a share of stock. It's complicated. Thanks, ANNA
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Posted by: Realist 2 on Jul 26, 2007 9:29 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
www.erols.com/suttonbear
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Posted by: Temporary on Jul 26, 2007 9:33 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Just enough time for China to play a "Reagan" on Bushes America;)
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» One things for sure!
Posted by: Temporary
Comments are closed-
Posted by: ReallyBearish on Jul 26, 2007 9:47 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» scary stuff
Posted by: mcooley
» Answer
Posted by: ReallyBearish
Comments are closed-
Posted by: mcooley on Jul 26, 2007 9:55 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Zeitgeist: Part 3 of this video lays it all out:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=497251819335380093
You might then be intrigued to spend the time to watch the whole thing here:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5547481422995115331
Based on view counts, this video is currently rated #8, but it doesn't appear on google's "Top 100" list?
I wonder why?
Maybe for the same reason google took down the video
"America: Freedom to Fascism" after it hit over 3 million views and then relisted it with a new count starting at zero:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1656880303867390173
Google - with their Orwellian corporate motto of "Do No Evil" seems to not want you to know what other people are actually watching. If you look at their "Top 100" list - it is basically all "tits-n-ass" videos - most of which have less hits than Zeitgeist.
Why is google lying to you?
Please watch these two videos while you still can.
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» RE: WATCH: ZEIGEIST The Movie
Posted by: jbur816
» Great - thanks! Maybe check out these next?
Posted by: mcooley
» RE: Great - thanks! Maybe check out these next?
Posted by: jbur816
» Some more good information here
Posted by: mcooley
» RE: WATCH: ZEIGEIST The Movie
Posted by: pjlewis_451
» Thanks both of you for watching - please spread the word
Posted by: mcooley
» RE: WATCH: ZEIGEIST The Movie
Posted by: A rope leash
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Temporary on Jul 26, 2007 9:59 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Going...
still going...
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Posted by: leemiller38 on Jul 26, 2007 10:06 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I much prefer a doomsday depression to a nuclear war and I am betting that the powers what be do too, though they seem to be a bunch of morons. It will wring out the excess in population in a hurry, but some of nature will survive and the planet will recover in a few million years though it will never be the beautiful place it was before we evolved.
However, we should be getting nuclear weapons dismantled just in case one of our political morons goes berserk. The dismantling will cost money and energy and can be added to our World Gross Product to show we are still growing the economy!
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Posted by: Temporary on Jul 26, 2007 10:17 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: American economy
Posted by: Temporary
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Temporary on Jul 26, 2007 10:34 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: bob t on Jul 26, 2007 10:41 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But then Bush said he would do that and he has.
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Posted by: american on Jul 26, 2007 10:47 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If what you do doesn't actually add value, you are a parasite.
To think, this set actually thinks they are the "beautiful people."
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Posted by: HughScott on Jul 26, 2007 11:23 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Americans had better pray that Red China keeps buying U.S. bonds. But then, President Bush says not to worry. And why should we? He's been right about everything else.
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Posted by: persian on Jul 26, 2007 12:14 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Wishful thinking
Posted by: Morphizm
» RE: Wishful thinking
Posted by: mommy64
» You obviously don't understand markets
Posted by: ReallyBearish
» The sky is falling everyone , buy gold .
Posted by: persian
Comments are closed-
Posted by: yellow on Jul 26, 2007 12:40 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» British political economist Susan Strange took it even further
Posted by: Bobsays
» Susan Strange has been around for a long time. She is worth reading.
Posted by: yellow
Comments are closed-
Posted by: babs on Jul 26, 2007 1:33 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
These dire warnings were publicized in the U.K., Canada, and other media markets, but I guess not in America. Maybe Bush vetoed that story too...
but hey, the Bushes will never miss a meal so what the hell do they care! Scotch and cigars in Dubai and "so long suckers, thanks for the ride".
it has been the crime of the century indeed and it continues to amaze and stupify the world.
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Posted by: dmaciewski on Jul 26, 2007 1:43 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Temporary on Jul 26, 2007 6:46 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
down...
down...
all the way to the bottom!
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Posted by: Temporary on Jul 26, 2007 6:50 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Temporary on Jul 26, 2007 6:53 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: dejavu2 on Jul 26, 2007 7:37 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: slydad on Jul 26, 2007 7:47 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Everyone knows that diverting funds earmarked for the great black hole of the government (tax cuts) to the private sector will improve the economic scene. And the leftists have been bombarding us with whining, bitching and moaning about everything from "it only benefited the rich" to "it's making the poor poorer" ever since it was done. None of that is true though. The tax cuts benefited everyone,and thanks to the dynamics of a free market, the poor in our country are richer than the middle class in most other countries.
Now that the tax cuts have been vindicated by a vibrant economy, they have to now try to convince us that it is somehow just a mirage.
It won't work though . . . bye, bye . . .
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» Typical Trash-Talk from the Bogus "Right"
Posted by: Hal
» You guys never let me down.
Posted by: slydad
» You’re PROJECTING Big-Time, Bubbles…
Posted by: Hal
» Yea, well I couldn't resist.
Posted by: slydad
» True Lies @ the Parasite State?
Posted by: Hal
» Harsh? My skin is thicker than that.
Posted by: slydad
» Try This On...
Posted by: Hal
» You got me!
Posted by: slydad
» RE: You got me!
Posted by: Hal
» You need help.
Posted by: slydad
» You need a clue
Posted by: Hal
» RE: You got me!
Posted by: Dartagnan
» See what I mean?
Posted by: slydad
» RE: Typical Communist Propaganda
Posted by: incenseman
» “Only Thing We Have to Fear Is Fear Itself”
Posted by: slydad
» HA, HA, HA, HA, HA!!!!
Posted by: ReallyBearish
» Sorry dude . . .
Posted by: slydad
» I'm glad you find the economy to be so bullish. Most people trying to support families do not!!
Posted by: yellow
» I get the sense that you're trying to hurt my feelings.
Posted by: slydad
» The paltry tax savings by the poor was destroyed by regressive state, property and sales taxes.
Posted by: yellow
» That's crap!
Posted by: slydad
» The rich are taxed low and the poor make up the shortfall. The Feds no longer redistribute income!!
Posted by: yellow
» If that's so . . .
Posted by: slydad
» It is you who have your facts wrong. Check sources other than Republican Party campaign brochures!!
Posted by: yellow
» You mean the Clinton induced recession?
Posted by: slydad
» As usual your claims are absurd. Much of what you say shows that most poor are newly poor.
Posted by: yellow
» That just went right over your head.
Posted by: slydad
» You need to recheck your facts too.
Posted by: slydad
» Slydad, Your head's in the sand. Worse yet you think supporting Bush is a moral imperative.
Posted by: yellow
» Do you know such a Christian?
Posted by: slydad
» RE: Do you know such a Christian?
Posted by: Morphizm
» You can read? How is that being as you're so blind?
Posted by: slydad
» You're really just spewing old discredited nonsense. No one buys it because it is so unrealistic.
Posted by: yellow
» How much income tax does a person making $15k pay in taxes?
Posted by: slydad
» Like most Right-wingers you lie and you don't listen to people when they try to reason with you.
Posted by: yellow
» And wealth should be redistributed why?
Posted by: slydad
» Wealth Redistribution in Modern Capitalism isn't "Marxist" but Keynsian. It built the Middle Class.
Posted by: yellow
» Wow!
Posted by: slydad
Comments are closed-
Posted by: vzn on Jul 26, 2007 8:45 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
in finance,
but why fault him? its true of most americans.
there is widespread ignorance of the basic mechanics of our
money/finance system.. is that a bug, or a feature? by accident, or by design?
what do you do if your underlying money system itself is a giant ponzi scheme?
note that ron paul is the only presidential candidate courageous enough to challenge the federal reserve sham.
consider a free electronic paper I wrote called
fractional reserve banking as economic parasitism
endorsed by two phd economists. printed in nexus
magazine, 60k world circulation. #1 top downloaded
economics paper. used by economics
teacher in australia as standard classroom material.
more info on request.
recent supporting material:
- confessions of an economic hit man by Perkins
- money as debt video by Grignon
- Congressman pres candidate Dennis Kucinich
at last years
2005 Monetary Reform Conference
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» Fed in the hands of Politicians or private bankers??
Posted by: andy
» Politicians in the Hands of the "Fed" that is in Hands of Private Cartel Bankers (NM)
Posted by: Hal
» More Cracker "Economics" from the Usual Suspects. Why don't you folks just give it a rest already?
Posted by: yellow
» More "Cracker" Kool-Aid from "Yellow"...
Posted by: Hal
» Your Crackerism is quite unsubstantiated. It's full of racist code, innuendo, namecalling and lies.
Posted by: yellow
» Lamenting The alleged loss of the Dollar's value makes sense if you never expect any price changes.
Posted by: yellow
» More "Yellow" Recycled Kool-aid
Posted by: Hal
» Yellow probably denies the MAJOR role that Jews had in the founding of the USSR too
Posted by: Whitecliff
» RE: Fed in the hands of Politicians or private bankers??
Posted by: dmaciewski
» RE: fractional reserve banking as economic parasitism
Posted by: dmaciewski
» Monopoly Power is the real parasite. Not the Government or the FED.
Posted by: yellow
» Stunning...
Posted by: justaguy
» Credit growth is not the policy of the FED. Credit growth is part of the housing bubble.
Posted by: yellow
» Keep reading yellow...
Posted by: justaguy
» You may be correct but the real story has nothing to do with banks or fractional reserve lending.
Posted by: yellow
» No.
Posted by: justaguy
» When Greenspan lowered the interest rate inflation was less than 3% and there was a stalled economy!
Posted by: yellow
» Maybe I was wrong. I don't think you will get it after all.
Posted by: justaguy
» I'm not racist or Zionist. BTW, are you a Saudi? Who else would label me Zionist over nothing?
Posted by: yellow
» Projection again. Manichaen paranoia. Yellow style racism. Cowardice.
Posted by: justaguy
» Wallay Kumb Salam, Habbibi!!
Posted by: yellow
Comments are closed-
Posted by: sofla100 on Jul 26, 2007 9:09 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Bretton woods 1944, gold standard used up till early80s
Posted by: andy
» Same crap, different day from the idiot right
Posted by: ReallyBearish
» RE: Same crap, different day from the idiot right
Posted by: dover23
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Temporary on Jul 27, 2007 1:51 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: davyy on Jul 27, 2007 7:52 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
While it is feasible that the volume of phantom shorts might overwhelm the float available, it is also true that each share sold short carries an obligation to buy that stock.
While it may also be possible for a hedge fund, or other quasi institution to enter into an agreement with itself, although the rules state that any such trading company must report these shares, the IRS would certainly catch up to them at audit time.
What every short seller knows is that the market is rigged to go higher, and has a number of protective devices to keep it from going lower. The inborn tendency in 99.9% of all cases is to manipulate stocks higher. That's where the money is made, shorting is an activity mostly used for hedging purposes, and by occasional shorting specialists who make a living exposing companies whose earnings and business model are way out of line with the fundamentals.
A fairer market would be on the model of the commodity market, where every long position that is opened requires an opposite short position. Wall St doesn't want that because it denies them the ability to create wealth out of thin air, (ponzi finance) with the help of a bevy of regulations to aid them. When the thing works the same way in the other direction they scream foul. Too bad.
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» Still more bunk from the morons
Posted by: ReallyBearish
» Exactly right (nm)
Posted by: justaguy
» RE: There are no Naked Shorts
Posted by: Morphizm
Comments are closed-
Posted by: drmflorida on Jul 27, 2007 10:18 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: if history repeats itself....
Posted by: WitchyNy
» RE: if history repeats itself....
Posted by: dover23
Comments are closed-
Posted by: victoria794 on Jul 28, 2007 10:14 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Income producing property.
Posted by: justaguy
Comments are closed-
Posted by: williameon on Jul 29, 2007 7:37 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When we stop looking at the Neo-Cons and start looking at the system that created them and is still behind them, we will begin to solve the problem.
The present system has been co-opted by special interest.
The special economic interests of wealthy industrialists. Capital interests.
Only by redistributing the abundance of the system wealth to the many, instead of the few, will we begin to make change things.
What changes?
To make the System fair.
We must level the playing field.
Take the Money out of politics.
Stop special interest from buying our government officials.
Break up the Media Conglomerates
A open, locally owned and run, Media is essential
To the survival of our country.
Level the playing field in Politics
By public financing of all elections.
Stop the Revolving door in Washington.
Ban corporate lobbyists from Government.
Change the one party ‘Corpirate’ system
To a true Multi party system.
Decentralize:
The Media Conglomerates
Manufacturing
Farming
and
Energy Production
Have a Armed Forces for defensive purposes only.
Stop Corporate Welfare!
Reinstitute all
The Bush & Co Tax breaks
Close all Tax Loopholes.
End the Tax Shelters.
With all of these savings
Guarantee:
Fairness
Universal Health care
A Livable wage
A clean environment
Education
Housing
And
Subsidence
To all.
The richest country in the world surely can afford these things,
That our poorer neighbors easily provide.
Stop Bullying the World.
Let’s start acting Compassionate
Good Deeds are a lot stronger than empty rhetoric.
Take care of our own first.
We are measured by how we treat the least amongst us.
The Poor
Homeless
And
The Sick!
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» Excellent post! That's exactly what's needed. n/t
Posted by: Bev
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Posted by: ReallyBearish on Jul 29, 2007 11:03 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Read up on the Kondratiev Wave if you want to learn something. In any event, I can supply more that enough statistics showing that the stock market bubble was about to bring down the economy (debt vs. GDP, stock capitalization vs. GDP, dollar volume vs. GDP, etc.)
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» Debt and Speculation were behind the economic instability leading to the Great Depression.
Posted by: yellow
» You're correct, but...
Posted by: ReallyBearish
» Yep again.
Posted by: justaguy
» Debt creation is a privatized mode of Keynesian pump priming a chronically stagnant economy.
Posted by: yellow
» yellow always obsessed with "a growing economy" despite the negative environmental consequences
Posted by: Whitecliff
» Slow population growth is a non-issue. We need economic growth. There is no going back 150 years.
Posted by: yellow
» And yea verily, Yellow spake thus....
Posted by: justaguy
» RE: Debt and Speculation were behind the economic instability leading to the Great Depression.
Posted by: richholland
» It will lead to another major depression. This time it could dwarf the last one by quite a bit.
Posted by: yellow
Comments are closed-
Posted by: orion0s on Jul 29, 2007 11:53 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The balances you carry in your checking account,savings account,
certificate of deposit,or whatever,are simply figures noted on a
paper ledger or a computer disk.Neither your bank nor your,savings
and loan(S&L)has on hand the actual cash you deposited with it.
That money was loaned to someone else,who subsequently set up
a checking account or savings account and also became both
creditor and debtor of the bank or savings and loan involved in the
transaction.Right on down the line.
Thus,the banking system is based upon credit and the continued
expansion of credit.When debt levels become excessive and borrowers
can not longer repay their loans,the system collapses like a series
of falling dominos(slowly at first-though accelerating toward the
end when there is a mad scramble or panic by all depositors to get
the very imited supply of cash available.
remember recently the Argentinians?
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Posted by: Morphizm on Jul 30, 2007 12:01 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: hetorical question
Posted by: saml
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Whitecliff on Jul 31, 2007 10:50 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The week before that the DOW hit 14,000...the highest it has ever been.
Up, down, up, down, up, down...what gives? Sounds like the market is suffering from bipolar disorder.
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Posted by: Reader11722 on Aug 1, 2007 11:43 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They violate the 1st Amendment by opening mail, caging demonstrators and banning books like "America Deceived" from Amazon.
They violate the 2nd Amendment by confiscating guns during Katrina.
They violate the 4th Amendment by conducting warrant-less wiretaps.
They violate the 5th and 6th Amendment by suspending habeas corpus.
They violate the 8th Amendment by torturing.
They violate the entire Constitution by starting 2 illegal wars based on lies and on behalf of a foriegn gov't.
Support Dr. Ron Paul and end this madness.
Last link (unless Stark County District Library caves to the gov't and drops the title):
America Deceived (book)
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» Enough already!! Paper money is ok if you don't print too much of it.
Posted by: yellow
Comments are closed-
Posted by: williameon on Aug 2, 2007 3:48 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The economy stops working
That is what happened in the twenties and
That is what is happening now.
History repeats itself
If you are too ignorant to learn from past mistakes.
Greed is a negative human trait
It has failed the American people.
Rampant Corporate Greed
Has failed us all.
The largest transfer of wealth in the history of the world
Is taking place right now.
From the people to
“Corpirate’ CEO’s.
Who rip people off for Fun and Profit!
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Posted by: mommy64 on Aug 2, 2007 3:45 PM
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