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Christian Reconstructionists Are Trying to Take Dominion in America -- and They Have Powerful Friends

By Jeremy Leaming, Church and State. Posted July 2, 2007.


A recent conference held by American Vision, a radical ministry that toils away to "help Christians build a truly Biblical worldview," displayed the growing organization of the dangerous Reconstructionist movement.

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Tucked away a few miles off Interstate 40 just outside Asheville, N.C., the LifeWay Ridgecrest Conference Center provides Southern Baptists with a remote place to facilitate the nurturing of "Biblical Solutions for Life."

The sprawling 1,300-acre compound in the Blue Ridge Mountains is made up of chapels, a book store, café, guest housing, drab-colored brick buildings, fences topped with barbed wire and plenty of wooded grounds for religious contemplation or recreation. It is not easily or quickly located; its address cannot be found via a Google Maps search or traced on a Global Positioning System (GPS).

Despite its isolated location, during the last week of May hundreds of Religious Right activists and their families made their way there for a four-day "Worldview Super Conference." They came to hear fundamentalist Christian speakers rail about the nation's moral confusion, claim the public schools are bastions of secular humanism and warn that Christians, especially their type of Christians, are in danger of being persecuted by America.

The gathering, dubbed "Preparing This Generation to Capture the Future," was hosted by American Vision, a ministry that has been toiling away since 1978 to "help Christians build a truly Biblical worldview." In a conference handout, American Vision states that "By God's grace, we will work together to make America a truly Christian nation for our children's children."

Based in Powder Springs, Ga., American Vision also produces reams of material that push Christian Reconstructionism, a form of fundamentalism that argues for a re-writing of American history, dismantling secular democracy and constructing an America governed by "biblical law." Reconstructionists seek to impose the criminal code of the Old Testament, applying the death penalty for homosexuals, adulterers, fornicators, witches, incorrigible juvenile delinquents and those who spread false religions.

Despite its overtly radical theocratic agenda, American Vision is allied with some of the Religious Right's most powerful outfits. This year's conference was cosponsored by the Alliance Defense Fund, a well-funded Religious Right lawyers' outfit that James Dobson and other religious broadcasters helped create; Michael Farris's Home School Legal Defense Association; the late TV preacher Jerry Falwell's Liberty University School of Law; and World Magazine, Marvin Olasky's influential evangelical Christian periodical.

The event was promoted heavily by the Rev. Lou Sheldon of the Traditional Values Coalition, and it was held in a facility owned by the Southern Baptist Convention, the nation's largest non-Catholic denomination and a religious body closely aligned with the Bush administration.

In an opening prayer, American Vision President Gary DeMar set the stage for what would be a major theme running through the gathering: restoring the sovereignty of God and God's people -- namely, folks like those at the conference.

"We know," said DeMar, "that you are a sovereign and omniscient God.... We know that you have called us to be responsible servants in the advancement of your kingdom through the proclamation of the gospel and the application of your word in every area of life."

Worldview speaker after speaker vacillated between decrying the nation as wildly secular and ready for a radical makeover led by fundamentalist Christians.

One of the first speakers, Gary Cass, offered a dire picture of a country that is doomed unless it embraces a rigid form of government led by fundamentalist Christian edicts.

"We need a new American vision," said Cass, former head of TV preacher D. James Kennedy's now-defunct Center for Reclaiming America for Christ, "because we've lost our biblical heritage, our Christian birthright, which has been given to us by our founders, we have squandered for a poisonous bowl of atheistic humanism and political correctness.

"And now our culture is experiencing its deadly effects," he continued. "The putrid stench of the culture of death fills our living rooms, coming to us every night on the evening news. And this Worldview weekend, I believe, is the antidote for the culture of death."

He continued, "By God's grace you are here to reclaim our godly heritage and to reassert, without apology to the atheists and the neo-pagans of our day, that this was and is a Christian nation, built on Christian ideals."

Cass's stark call for a fundamentalist Christian takeover of America was later followed by claims that the nation is increasingly hostile to religious people. To some chuckles from the audience, he insisted that the United States is in "great need of a Christian anti-defamation league."

"Defamation," Cass argued, "is the precursor to persecution." Defamation leads to marginalization, he continued, and marginalization sets the "stage for discrimination," which inevitably leads to the final stage of religious cleansing.

"Genocide being the ultimate expression," Cass declared, "the deliberate, systematic extermination of a group of people." Kind of like what is happening in Sudan's Darfur region, he added.

Other speakers brutally attacked the public school system and promoted home schooling and private Christian education. The Ridgecrest bookstore was full of materials offering curriculums for parents interested in escaping the public schools.

On the conference's first day, attendees gathered in Ridgecrest's Spilman Auditorium were treated to a lengthy rant against public schools by a Baptist preacher from Texas.

The Rev. Voddie Baucham Jr., pastor at Grace Family Baptist Church in Spring, Texas and founder of Voddie Baucham ministries, is indignant that so many "blood-washed" Christians choose to send their children to public schools. He boasted about his involvement in pushing a resolution before the Southern Baptists' annual convention that calls on church members to yank their kids from public schools.

"If we continue to send our children to Caesar for their education, we need to stop being surprised when they come home as Romans," Baucham said.

Baucham encouraged the gathering to do what his family does, which is to keep children at home and immerse them in religiosity. The towering pastor -- virtually the only African-American at the conference -- noted that his son Trey travels with him full time.

"Trey travels everywhere with me," he said. "Trey is 14 years old; I am his teacher. When our sons reach the age of 13, they go through a rite of passage; they enter into manhood. And when they enter into manhood, their mother closes up the books and hands them to me."

There are things that only a man can teach a man, Baucham said, though he did not elaborate other than to say that his son is his assistant now.

All the railing against public schools and other state-supported institutions has long been a focal point for Christian Reconstructionists, whose goal is a society where their harsh version of biblical law permeates everything. DeMar provided a platform for some of the movement's most radical voices.

On the second day, Doug Phillips, oldest son of long-time right-wing activist Howard Phillips, declared that God created the universe and the Bible is a history book for understanding God's design.

Phillips heads up a San Antonio-based group called Vision Forum that advocates for the "Biblical family." The organization is also a staunch supporter of home schooling and families where the men take precedence.

"If we encourage our daughters to pursue a careerist philosophy," the Vision Forum's mission statement reads, "if we fail to make our homes economically vital, hospitable centers for love and learning, we are hypocrites."

Phillips spent the next hour railing against what he said was a plot by secularists to write Christianity out of American history, concluding that "those who control history define the culture." Like other Worldview speakers, Phillips promoted removing kids from public schools and immersing them in fundamentalist Christian training.

Later in the day, DeMar introduced Gary North to the attendees, lauding him as "a mentor." North is a son-in-law of the late Rousas J. Rushdoony, who is widely touted as the founder of Christian Reconstructionism. North has written boatloads of books and articles about the need to establish "Christendom."

His plentiful material has left a track record of extremism. North has called for the death penalty, like Rushdoony did, for youngsters who curse their parents, gays and others who violate his interpretation of biblical law. He has argued that stoning is the preferred means of capital punishment, noting that it is a communal activity and "the implements of execution are available to everyone at virtually no cost." Writing for Reason magazine in 1998, Walter Olson observed that Reconstructionists like North "provide the most enthusiastic constituency for stoning since the Taliban seized Kabul."

North skipped stoning at his Worldview appearance and offered a strident rant against secularism. According to North, the universe is ordered by an all-powerful God who will ultimately dispose of all the "covenant-breakers." The so-called "covenant-keepers," on the other hand, will inherit the riches of the heavens.

Citing the Book of Genesis, North said, "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. Now, that establishes God as the absolute authority, since he is the creator; since he is the creator, he is the owner of all of creation. And, therefore, absolutely sovereign over that creation."

During his lengthy discussion, North conceded that his views have not been embraced by the public yet.

"Most of the people in this room are fringe people," North claimed to a hushed audience. "And not just 'kind of' fringe people, not just 'kind of' Christian evangelicals."

He added that the Worldview audience is on the fringe because it is in the forefront of the war against "Darwinism" and the secular culture.

"We really are on the extreme fringe of society today," North continued. "And that's our curse. And if we do our work well, and if the grace of God is on us, in retrospect that will be our blessing."

Many of the speakers blasted civil liberties organizations for supposedly waging an ongoing, aggressive effort to remove religion, Christianity in particular, from the public square.

DeMar specifically targeted the ACLU and Americans United for Separation of Church and State, claiming that if those groups had their way God would be excised from "everything" in America. But thankfully, DeMar maintained, "there's a new sheriff" in town.

"The ACLU and Americans United for Separation of Church and State," DeMar said, "really have a battle on their hands with organizations like the Alliance Defense Fund (ADF)."

DeMar praised ADF, a $25 million operation based in Scottsdale, Ariz., for training young lawyers to fight for a "biblical worldview." Two ADF representatives appeared before the Worldview audience and promoted the group's work to bring the legal system under Christian control.

Ken Fletcher, an ADF development director, insisted that America was "started on a biblical worldview," but has been wrenched from its religious moorings by secularists and "activist courts."

"Our Christian liberties are under attack in our nation," Fletcher maintained. "I guess back in the '60s it really got under attack, where the secular agenda really started replacing the Christian worldview that we had in our nation."

Besides home schooling and trying to convert people to their religious principles, Fletcher argued that the courts "cannot be left out of the equation." "The right to abort a baby came through the courts; prayer and the Bible taken out of the public schools, that all came through the courts," he maintained. "Homosexual marriage," Fletcher added also came through the courts.

So in 1994, an array of powerful fundamentalist broadcasters, such as James Dobson, D. James Kennedy and Bill Bright, got together to form the ADF, he said, because "if we don't start showing up in the courts, our religious liberty is going to be lost in this country."

The conference also heard from Janet Folger, a former executive director of Kennedy's disbanded Center for Reclaiming America for Christ. Folger, who now heads a Religious Right lobbying group dubbed "Faith2Action," was especially ticked off at the new make-up of Congress, blasting it for supporting hate-crimes legislation. She is also seriously convinced that fundamentalist Christians are in danger of persecution in America.

Folger, author of a book titled The Criminalization of Christianity, repeatedly attacked the "homosexual agenda" as one of the main driving forces against fundamentalist Christianity. Aping comments from Kennedy, she tagged gays as plotting to criminalize the Christian religion.

Folger said gays want to use hate-crimes legislation to "do away" with terms applied to homosexuality such as "abomination," which she noted is a word from Leviticus. The gays want to ban the Bible, according to Folger.

"If they can silence the truth," Folger said referring to gay lobbying groups like the Human Rights Campaign, "make no mistake, they will silence the gospel."

She then claimed that Canada, Sweden, England and France are already persecuting Christians who cite Bible passages in demonizing gays. America, she claimed, is following those nations' lead. (In fact, the hate-crimes legislation pending in Congress specifically protects speech and penalizes only hate-motivated violence.)

During her afternoon appearance, Folger said she sobbed and felt almost defeated when the U.S. House of Representatives passed hate-crimes legislation earlier this year.

We just need to bring "God back into this debate," Folger maintained. She argued that when large numbers of fundamentalist Christians get to the voting booth, good things will transpire and pointed to the election and re-election of President George W. Bush as evidence.

Folger urged attendees to be especially politically active in 2008, saying that they should not be lulled into believing that a "values voter" candidate cannot retain control of the White House.

Lauding the U.S. Supreme Court for upholding a federal ban on so-called "partial-birth" abortion, Folger maintained that Christians are "so close to winning this thing, of overturning Roe v. Wade."

"We are one judge away," she said.

Concluding her afternoon talk with a prayer for President Bush and for God to assert dominion over the land, she started to weep.

"I'm asking You how to take this land," she prayed, "and how to keep it until You come."

ADF Senior Vice President Jeff Ventrella trumpeted the work of his organization as one of the ways the nation can be returned to a biblical foundation. Ventrella bemoaned the secularization of society, claimed Christian children from coast to coast face harassment from public school teachers and officials and that the legal system must be used to fight back.

For over an hour, Ventrella blathered on about the Apostle Paul and other characters from the Bible, declaring that "truth in the public square has stumbled." At one point in his rambling, angry talk, he warned that any "spies" amongst the Worldview gathering had better not misquote him.

The ADF attorney claimed that his organization exists, in part, to "do damage to evil. We must do damage to evil." Ventrella also asked the afternoon gathering whether they wanted to "win the world for Christ. We can't be on the sidelines," he said.

The evening featured one of the conference's oddest presentations. Gary Bates, head of Creation Ministries International, spoke for well over an hour about his recent book Alien Intrusion: UFOs and the Evolution Connection.

In a nutshell, Bates contends that the UFOs some Americans claim to see are not space aliens, but rather angels. Some of those angels are good, he indicated, and some of them are bad. He said that Joseph Smith, founder of Mormonism, and the Muslim prophet Mohammed had both been visited by fallen angels.

The evening's biggest draw, however, was the debate between Americans United Executive Director Barry W. Lynn and Herb Titus, a former dean at TV preacher Pat Robertson's Regent University and former attorney for disgraced Alabama Chief Justice Roy Moore. The two advocates sparred over whether the First Amendment prevents "a Bibically-Based Public Policy."

The ADF's Ventrella served as moderator of the exchange and told the audience that his role was to "be invisible." He apparently could not contain himself, however. Throughout, he chided Lynn for not asking a question of Titus quickly enough, said Lynn, not Titus, carried the burden in the debate and gave his own opinion of the question at the debate's conclusion.

Lynn told the 800 conferees what they didn't particularly want to hear.

"American public policy cannot be based," he said, "solely on the Bible, any more than it could be based solely on the Koran or the Bhagavad Gita.

"The laws that govern our daily lives," Lynn continued, "need to be based on commonly shared secular values, including those found in the Bill of Rights. Lawmakers take an oath, sometimes on a holy book even, to uphold the Constitution. They do not put their hand on the Constitution and swear to uphold the Bible.

"Political leaders represent all Americans, Christian and otherwise," he said, "so yes, to base public policy on one constituency's religious text and, moreover, a particular interpretation of that text, would fly directly in the face of the First Amendment's guarantee that there will be no laws respecting, touching upon an establishment of religion."

Lynn's comments were the only words in a four-day talk-a-thon that promoted a free society.

The major theme of this year's Worldview conference was a call for an ongoing push by Christian fundamentalists to tear down democracy and replace it with theocracy. Far from being super, it was rather scary.

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View:
Well!
Posted by: talkville on Jul 2, 2007 3:10 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Defamation," Cass argued, "is the precursor to persecution." Defamation leads to marginalization, he continued, and marginalization sets the "stage for discrimination," which inevitably leads to the final stage of religious cleansing

Nietzsche dwells somewhere in his writings about the activity of reading. It's not how fast or how much one reads that determines our knowledges and perspectives. One must read *carefully*, slowly and care-fully. The above quote deserves a *very careful* and critical reading, with a view to documented history regarding 'marginalization', 'persecution' and such activities, by what 'groups' and upon what other 'groups' -- and not only with regard to 'religious' cleansing.

These are powerful people, they deserve opposition. For a better, more just, more equitable, and more dignified society -- in this world and for all.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: America needs Re-Education Posted by: Veronique
» RE: America needs Re-Education Posted by: phatkhat
» Oh phatkhat Posted by: Veronique
» Australia is worse. Posted by: justaguy
» RE: America needs Re-Education Posted by: talkville
If religion is the opiate of the people...
Posted by: Suzon on Jul 2, 2007 4:08 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
then the people must be in pain.

Research done in Canada in the 1980s (Bruce K Alexander) provided compelling evidence that opiates are NOT addictive. Alexander observed that rats would indeed scamper over an electric grid to get a hit of an opiate, but he reasoned that he would do the same thing if he lived like the caged lab rats did.

He and his colleagues built Rat Park, a large secure environment where rats could freely socialise, mate, nurse their young and play. Without exception, they chose plain water over the water with opiates. Even when sugar was added to the adulterated water, only a few females had an occasional sip (I have a theory about this!).

Perhaps we should look at what's lacking in the lives of people who seem to need a belief system. The very fact that they defend it so fervently points to an underlying knowledge that religion is the thing that saves them from realities they cannot bear.

They may not be right about their religion (which can only be conjecture), but there is an instinctive understanding that they need salvation of some sort.

In a hierarchy of dominance, status determines happiness and health. The more that your feeling of self-worth is undercertain, the more you will need religion. Or drugs.

So, how do we make things as nice for people as Rat Park was for rats?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Selective sinning
Posted by: paulaH on Jul 2, 2007 4:18 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Reconstructionists seek to impose the criminal code of the Old Testament, applying the death penalty for homosexuals,

Does this apply to those who eat shellfish, too? After all, just a few lines away from the verse these people quote to declare homosexuality is a sin it says that eating shellfish is also a sin.

I love their selective sinning.

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» RE: Selective sinning Posted by: davidbdr
» Polyester/cotton blend fabric is a sin, too Posted by: karma_ran_over_dogma
» RE: Selective sinning Posted by: factbased
Not to be trusted.
Posted by: MRS on Jul 2, 2007 5:46 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
These people are a direct threat to people of color and are not to be trusted. They are so far away from the Lord's teachings that they should pray for forgiveness.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Not to be trusted. Posted by: factbased
» RE: Not to be trusted. Posted by: Zachria
What's the point
Posted by: nickbk on Jul 2, 2007 5:52 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
of this article? To ogle at the wierdness of radical, fundamental christians? Do we really need to be reminded of how crazy religious fanatics are?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Yes, we do Posted by: dkm
» RE: Yes, we do Posted by: RosieRivetor
and how did the Jews get their wealth?
Posted by: veggiegrrrl on Jul 2, 2007 6:53 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
and how did the Jews get their wealth?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

It is amazing, that these anti-semites always raise their heads from their as__es
Posted by: Ellie1 on Jul 2, 2007 1:47 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
to attack Jews and Israel, even when the article has nothing to do with either. They are truly evil Nazi wannabe's. Naziism is not dead, it lurks in the heart (although I personally doubt they have one, they certainly don't have a mind or a conscience) of many of those who reply in Alternet. There is no underestimating the ignorance of the American people.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Whitecliff- Your comment is so WhiteTrash
Posted by: veggiegrrrl on Jul 2, 2007 2:16 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Whitecliff- Your comment is so WhiteTrash. Just because you didn't choose to become a doctor, lawyer, accountant, or entertainment industry executive, or whatever "rich" jobs you think Jews have, don't blame a class of people you ENVY.

Jews arrived in the USA with NOTHING.
N-O-T-H-I-N-G.
You think they brought big bucks from "the old country!?"
You think the Jews who managed to survive WW2 came with any money?
THE NAZIs TOOK EVERYTHING.
Jews got what they have through hard work, education, and more hard work. No Jewish ancestor had a pot to piss in.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Are you a troll... Posted by: justaguy
Pick a side, Huckabee
Posted by: Chickensh*tEagle on Jul 2, 2007 6:14 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Mike Huckabee said, "I believe there's a God who was active in the creation process."

Gary North said, "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. Now, that establishes God as the absolute authority, since he is the creator; since he is the creator, he is the owner of all of creation. And, therefore, absolutely sovereign over that creation."

I guess that'll put wishywashies like Huckabee on notice!

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» That's funny, Posted by: Ellie1
» That's funny, Posted by: Ellie1
» That's funny, Posted by: Ellie1
» That's funny, Posted by: Ellie1
as a gay person...
Posted by: zooeyhall on Jul 2, 2007 6:28 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As a gay person, I think it is the height of hypocrisy for these jerks to complain about how they are the targets of a dark conspiracy, when given the first chance they would do it themselves to the long list of "enemies" they think they have:

"Defamation," Cass argued, "is the precursor to persecution." Defamation leads to marginalization, he continued, and marginalization sets the "stage for discrimination," which inevitably leads to the final stage of religious cleansing."

Isn't this the exact strategy they have been using against gay people?

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THE ONLY VOTE TO INVADE IRAQ
Posted by: VZEQICVA on Jul 2, 2007 6:56 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Every religious leader in the world disagreed with Bush and his plan to invade Iraq. Except the American Southern Baptists. They were the exception. Like many fundamentalist religions they are cruel. They claim to be living according to 'biblical teachings' but that's bull. They've got the Supreme Court in their 'vision'. They have a foot in many doors. They've got tons of money and alot of backing. We should be very careful. Thanks, ANNA

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Reconstructionism is more than just a SECT ....
Posted by: picket on Jul 2, 2007 6:56 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
it is a CULT. When most Christians understand what the key doctrines of Christian Reconstructionism are, they reject it. Why? Because it is completely unscriptual.
Reconstructionists have POWERFUL FRIENDS.

"An Expose of Reconstructionist Thought"........read at your own peril.....do not be a convert. Dangerous material....

http://www.serve.com/thibodep/cr/words.htm

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Protecting Religious Minorities
Posted by: vasumurti on Jul 2, 2007 7:39 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As a member of Americans United for Separation of Church and State, I'm familiar with their periodical and with Jeremy Leaning's columns. I appreciate the work they do in keeping the government neutral towards all forms of religious expression; effectively protecting religious minorities. (And yes, atheists and agnostics ARE religious minorities, too!)

A few years ago, on one of his broadcasts, TV preacher Pat Robertson was quoted as saying, "We want a secular constitution, we want to make sure religious minorities are protected..." But he wasn't talking about the United States--he was talking about Afghanistan...where Christians are a minority!

Similarly, in the October 2006 issue of Church & State, the periodical put out by Americans United for Separation of Church and State, Gary B. Christenot, an evangelical Christian writes about his experience on the Hawaiian island of Wahiawa, where Christians are a minority "in this little village that was populated predominantly by people of Japanese and Chinese ancestry. Rather than a church on every corner, as is common in the continental 48 states, Wahiawa had a Shinto or Buddhist shrine on every corner."

Christenot notes that prayers before a high school football game were led "not by a Protestant minister or a Catholic priest, but a Buddhist priest who proceeded to offer up prayers and intonations to god-head figures that our tradition held to be pagan."

He concludes: "I would say in love to my Christian brothers and sisters: Before you yearn for the imposition of prayer and similar rituals in your public schools, you might consider attending a football game at Wahiawa High School. Because unless you're ready to endure the unwilling exposure of yourself and your children to those beliefs and practices that your own faith forswears, you have no right to insist that others sit in silence and complicity while you do the same to them.

"I, for one, sleep better at night knowing that because Judeo-Christian prayers are not being offered at my children's schools, I don't have to worry about them being confronted with Buddhist, Shinto, Wiccan, Satanic or any other prayer ritual I might find offensive."

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These folks are dangerous to the Constitution but also hate and...
Posted by: poppop_schell on Jul 2, 2007 7:46 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
persecute Mormons. It was folks like these that murdered Mormon women and children in Missouri and Illinos back in the 1830-40s. Drove families out of their states under gunpoint in the dead of winter causing about 2600 people to die on the trek to the Rocky Mountains.

So, they are NOT only a danger to seculurists but any Christians that don't buy into their Old Testament movement. And example of a MILD attack on Mormons is below:

"In a nutshell, Bates contends that the UFOs some Americans claim to see are not space aliens, but rather angels. Some of those angels are good, he indicated, and some of them are bad. He said that Joseph Smith, founder of Mormonism, and the Muslim prophet Mohammed had both been visited by fallen angels."

Hopefull, God will protect His loving children from these extremists.

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» I find it hard to defend Mormons Posted by: itzamirakul
» RE: I find it hard to defend Mormons Posted by: SatanicJamboree
ALL CHRISTIANS
Posted by: Roverton on Jul 2, 2007 7:58 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
... Should be up in arms about this internal problem, but instead, they allow the insane within their camp to run havoc on the innocent everywhere. How Christian, indeed.

These are shallow, selfish people.

Just the sort the Devil could fool.

True Christian would try to defend us from them. Not many true Christians anymore. They follow the craven image instead.

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» RE: ALL CHRISTIANS Posted by: factbased
» RE: ALL CHRISTIANS Posted by: picket
» RE: ALL CHRISTIANS Posted by: factbased
» RE: ALL CHRISTIANS Posted by: picket
» RE: ALL CHRISTIANS Posted by: factbased
» RE: Many Christians Posted by: urthsong
military messiahs and fulminating fundementalists
Posted by: particle61 on Jul 2, 2007 8:30 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
gwbush hears a-whisperin' in the caverns of his west-texas baked brain...
see gwbush cartoon, verbatim-
http://www.redstateupdate.net/verbatim/v4-6.html

-frequently focusing on fulminating fun d' mental(ists), petro-religious wars and the fanatics who start them...see fun d' mental archive
http://www.redstateupdate.net/fun-d-mental/fundmental.html

www.redstateupdate.net
funny, frightening, free
and 'it's all true'

particle61
"I tremble for my country when I consider that God is just" t. jefferson

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Love is the answer.
Posted by: Thinker on Jul 2, 2007 8:39 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
To my mind, the biggest error of the far right is their "fear". To truly believe in Christ is to accept his teachings foremost of which is "love". To me the above article seemed to be one rant of fear and hate.

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» RE: TheArticle... Posted by: bob t
Can't be traced by GPS????
Posted by: Elmo409 on Jul 2, 2007 8:48 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If the location can't be traced with a GPS receiver, they must really be somewhere that the son doesn't shine.

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You'd think, wouldn't you?
Posted by: InsertNameHere on Jul 2, 2007 9:16 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Here is a multi-million dollar organization, openly declaring its intent to dismantle secular America and replace it with theocratic rule, guided by a fundamentalist world view.

So why haven't these people been tossed into Gitmo to rot? The Administration is ready to throw away the key for any Muslim who so much as looks at America sideways, but these people can organize in some secret compound and openly plot to dismantle society?

Perhaps they preach just the right flavor of hatred to get away with it. Oh, and tax exempt too.

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» RE: You'd think, wouldn't you? Posted by: MartianBachelor
Hypocrisy and Delusion
Posted by: factbased on Jul 2, 2007 9:37 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The "antidote for the culture of death" is stoning! If we don't take away others' rights, they're going to take away ours! The response to fears of the "homosexual agenda" criminalizing christianity is to criminalize homosexuality and enforce it with capital punishment. The large majority in a democratic republic fears persecution. Someone in the small minority speaks ill of the majority (defamation) and that leads to genocide of the majority!

We can hope that Folger's tying them to W's saddle is effective and both are seen as equally shameful.

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Perhaps radical, militant Christianity is envious of radical, militant Islam?
Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Jul 2, 2007 9:58 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The radical Islamic fundmentalist movement is based in the religious schools called madrasas. These insular schools are more like brainwashing centers for the young.

The radical Christian fundamentalist movement is also very concerned with the indoctrination of young people, and they are using the same methodology as the militant Islamists - take the kids, put them in an isolated environment, and brainwash them into obedience.

What's funny is that the very same right-wing organizations that are trying to mandate conservative religious education in the United States always point to the madrasas as evidence of the dangers of radical Islam. See David Horowitz's "Jihad Watch".

One can certainly imagine brainwashed Christian suicide bombers coming out of Christian religious schools, complete with guaranteed admission to Heaven and a complete belief in the justness of their cause.

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» FYI Posted by: Joshua Holland
Once again, look to history
Posted by: ReallyBearish on Jul 2, 2007 10:16 AM   
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This crapola from the Christian right isn't new. Go back to the 1920s and witness the rise of the Klan-- an organization dedicated to promoting the values of the Christian white majority. The Christian right was stong enough to pass anti-immigration legislation, Prohibition and other drug laws, etc.

One of their rallying issues was the case of Leo Frank in Georgia, the Jewish accountant that allegedly raped and killed a Christian girl (who was actually raped and killed by the black janitor, but lynching a Jew was a lot more satisfying in Georgia than lynching still another black).

My point is this: the Great Depression essentially broke the backbone of the Christian right for decades (helped along by idiots like Father Cauglin and others with their pro Nazi ideology. The next financial crisis will wack the Christian right again when the bozos realize that Jesus isn't Santa Claus!

Don't waste too much time on this topic.

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radical secularism
Posted by: vasumurti on Jul 2, 2007 10:27 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Radical secularism is the only response to radical fundamentalism. As a member of a religious minority, I believe in a secular society. I'm not a secular humanist. I'm a practicing Hindu.

I'm a pro-life Democrat, but also believe in a complete separation of church and state. I gave $1,008 to Americans United for Separation of Church and State, while asking Rev. Barry Lynn (Executive Director) to keep the organization neutral on this divisive issue.

I have no problem with atheism. Thomas Jefferson, the architect of American democracy, said, "The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts as are only injurious to others, but it does no injury for my neighbor to say there are 20 gods or no god. It neither picks my pockets nor breaks my legs." Under Jeffersonian democracy, monotheism, polytheism, agnosticism, atheism and even victimless crimes are all tolerated.

This conception of democracy appears to me to be closer to the Vedic conception of government, because under Vedic civilization there was tolerance of different philosophical schools of thought, different yoga systems, demigod worship, ancestor worship ("pitas", or forefathers, in Sanskrit), pantheism (advaita vedanta), and even atheists like Charvaka. The American Left is open to the idea of a tolerant multicultural, multireligious, multiracial and possibly even a multilingual society.

Jefferson stated that "The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts as are only injurious to others." Robert Heinlein also wrote that sin lies only in harming others--all other "sins" are concocted. In Vedic civilization, victimless crimes such as intoxication (rice wine was offered to goddess Kali) and even prostitution (Srimad Bhagavatam 1.11.19) were legal and regulated.

I agree religion has no place in the secular arena and therefore oppose prayer in the public schools, but must simultaneously oppose the teaching of modern myths such as the theory of evolution in the public schools as well.

According to Vedic civilization, people fall into four different classes: educators, military, mercantile, and laborers. Only a certain class of people will have military inclinations, and a military draft forces people from the working classes to take up arms against their will.

Writer and activist Jean Blackwood, in the July 1993 issue of "Harmony: Voices for a Just Future", a "consistent-ethic" publication on the religious Left, notes:

"Many of the young people who make up the animal rights and environmental movement grew up with pro-abortion rhetoric in their ears. They can make the mental shift from banning CFCs, outlawing whaling, and abolishing clearcuts to 'a woman's right to choose' with such alacrity that one might suspect no self-contradiction was involved."

For many young people today, abortion is just another choice; just another form of birth control. Will they be more inclined to listen to a secular moral philosophy that doesn't dictate their sexual behavior or intrude upon their private life, or a set of unprovable religious beliefs that does?

There are non-traditional pro-life groups that make up "The Left Side of the March" on the March on Washington, every January 22nd, in D.C.: Vegans for Life, Democrats for Life, Feminists for Life, the Pro-Life Alliance of Gays and Lesbians (PLAGAL), etc. I'm not sure if Atheists for Life is included, but Rachel MacNair, a Quaker pacifist, vegan, psychology professor and past president of Feminists For Life, once pointed out that there are pro-life atheists who argue that since there is no afterlife, life is especially precious.

Had Dennis Kucinich remained pro-life, I would have voted for him. Nonreligious people have nothing to fear: we really live in a secular society; one in which people just pay lip service to religious ideals.

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» RE: radical secularism Posted by: PopRox80
» RE: radical secularism Posted by: MartianBachelor
» RE: radical secularism Posted by: urthsong
» RE: radical secularism Posted by: SatanicJamboree
lauryn hill - "oh jerusalem"
Posted by: juanpecan81 on Jul 2, 2007 10:44 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"What a paradox, having God trapped in a box
All this time professing to be spiritual

Naturally pretending, that I'm actually defending
God through my facade only material


We judge and condemn, just as ignorant as them
Who religion tells us that we should ignore

Perpetrating we're in covenant with Him
Exposed by the very things that we adore

We grin and shake hands, then lay ambush for the man
Who has a different point of view then us

Infuriated cause he doesn't understand
Bringing up those things we don't want to discuss

Wise to do evil, we don't know how to do good
Walking on in darkness running from the light


Submit to truth, leave the deception of thy youth
So we could walk in the council of authority

Forget the proof, our generation so aloof
Only follow in the steps of the majority"

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Just Another Hate Group
Posted by: JB Max on Jul 2, 2007 10:52 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Reconstructionists define their unique religious virtues against the evil they perceive in their enemies. It’s much like a Hollywood screenplay where the amount of heroism displayed by the hero is determined by how evil the bad guys are.

Modern society is stripping the Reconstructionists of their traditional enemies, the gays, the atheists, (insert enemy in blank) __________, and hence their identity. It’s a classic case of enemy deprivation.

The Reconstructionists marginalize themselves by opposing the virtues of an open society. The “persecution” they anticipate from their opponents includes any verbal or written criticism of their agenda. They’re apocalyptic over the fact that political correctness has put a spotlight on their hate speech. They know enough about the consequences of their hate speech to fear a society that criminalizes those consequences with laws against hate crimes. Ultimately, the Reconstructionists face the same legal liabilities for their actions as do their alter egos, the Ku Klux Klan and the Neo-Nazis.

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.. so much for freedom to worship
Posted by: Ghoulman on Jul 2, 2007 12:28 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
... which is a law, written somewhere... can't remember... ;p

You know, if Southern "mega mall" Christians are planning to take over and truly make America "one nation under God" then, well, that would be illegal. There's a word for people who plan to overthrow the Constitution... can't remember... ;p

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What these right wing religious lunatics are planning is
Posted by: bettyd643 on Jul 2, 2007 4:11 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
by any other words "TREASON". They are doing it openly under the guise of religion but what it is is the overthrow of our constitution and democratic form of government.

What is the sentence for Treason in this country and how long will it take us to wake up and impose it on these would be traitors?

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Secular Humanism.
Posted by: Frosted Flake on Jul 2, 2007 4:32 PM   
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The Founders of this Government, those who wrote the Constitution of the United States, were, in the majority, men in possesion of Religious Degrees, from Religious Universities, which they attended because they were Religious People.

Nowhere, in the Constitution of the United States, does the name of God appear. Nor is He invoked as authority. Nor as motive. Nor is the document or any part of it attributed to him. Nor is there allusion that He might have been in some small way inspirational. The only point in the entire document that even tangentally touches upon the concept of religion does so without specifying which, because it refers to all religions, all of them, yours, mine and thiers, the good, the bad and the ugly. This point is the third paragraph of section six, which requires an oath to support the Constitution, and prohibits a religious test, as qualification to hold Office or public Trust under the United States.

It seems some Cristians have faith that this verifiable reality is actually the way they would preferr. In this they are in the extream minority. Even as the Constitution was being written, there were unsatisfied people looking over the Founders shoulders, clucking thier tounges. As soon as the Framers handed the document over, these people changed it. These initial changes are called the Bill of Rights. the first of them Reads:

Congress shall make no Law respecting an establisment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; and it goes on...Though this should make abundantly clear the legal lay of the land. Government is, quite simply, not a religious institution.

Not simply because government is not suited to controlling peoples minds. Not simply because the majority of the people are aware of the trouble that arises from the attempt. But because it is impossible to define God, therefor impossible to specify the requirement, therefor impossible to enforce the specification.

"People of Faith" have faith this difficulty can be overcome. And some insist you do so. Those need to think about something.

God is big. Bigger than that. Bigger than your house, your town, your Country, your planet, the solar system, the galaxy, the local group, or the supercluster of galixies the local group hangs out in. Bigger, in plain words, than the universe, proven by His authorship of it.

While you think about that, take a look at your hat. Do you see all of it? Flip it, how 'bout now? Hold it against a mirror. Get another mirror. Get as many as you want. Does that let you see all of your hat at the same time? What is under the band? Take this as far as you want, you will never see all of your hat at the same time, without God helping. And that is just your hat. What chance have you of learning all about God in one lifetime? Without a lot of help.

Those whom God has spoken to, and who have lived to tell us of it, tell us the story of thier experience. Naturally, it is not exactly the same as the experience of he who went before, nor of he who came after. The similarities in these stories is important, because that is how we know that was God talking, but the differances are much more important because that is how we hear what god was saying, that time, to that man, and to all of us.

It would be a more appropriate, a more respectful, and a more rational reaction to view these differances as an opportunaty to learn from the mouth of God, rather than, as some insist proper, to fight, kill and die, simply to "prove" (as if!) which of these differant things God said, to differant people in differant places on differant days, is true.
Frosted Flake

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They are not bumb
Posted by: Melvin on Jul 2, 2007 7:32 PM   
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I find it interesting that the religious right cry foul when they see victory on the horizon!
Reverse psychology ;I think they call it!

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These people really are dangerous....
Posted by: tooldoc60 on Jul 3, 2007 12:16 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
My mother-in-law is Southern Baptist, and ever since I married her daughter, has been Hell bent on converting me (I also consider myself to be Christian, the Episcopal variety.).
No need to go into the whole controversy with that. She is working very hard to destroy something that those "Christians" hold very dear....marriage, family, etc. because I am one of the "Godless". I guess it is more Christlike to look the other way while your husband sexually molests your daughters and sweep it all under the rug than to face the problem and do something about it (actually she did, when one daughter finally went to the police). Friggin' hypocrites.
They wont be happy until they turn the United States into a Christian Iran. May they all burn for their sins.

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those poor children
Posted by: K.J. on Jul 3, 2007 2:48 PM   
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Gary North said, "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. Now, that establishes God as the absolute authority, since he is the creator; since he is the creator, he is the owner of all of creation. And, therefore, absolutely sovereign over that creation."
Which means of course that you own your offspring, so warping their minds with cultish religion, beating their bodies, and stifling their potential with exaggerated gender roles is all good with the Big Man.

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» RE: those poor children Posted by: SatanicJamboree
news flash: USA not a Christian gov't, says 2nd prez John Adams
Posted by: K.J. on Jul 3, 2007 2:51 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It was during Adams' presidency that the Senate ratified the Treaty of Peace and Friendship with Tripoli, which states in Article XI that:

As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion - as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranquility of Musselmen, - and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arrising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.

SOURCE: (Charles I. Bevans, ed. Treaties and Other International Agreements of the United States of America 1776-1949. Vol. 11: Philippines-United Arab Republic. Washington D.C.: Department of State Publications, 1974, p. 1072).

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More power than we think
Posted by: phatkhat on Jul 4, 2007 2:22 PM   
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I live in a rural county in central Arkansas where the vast majority of the population is Baptist of some flavor or another. These people have been able to turn every attempt by more reasonable (and economics oriented) people to get rid of the local prohibition law. [FYI, about half of the state of Arkansas is "dry" - and mostly where the population is mostly Baptist...and white.]

This can be viewed as a microcosm, I suppose, of the larger Fundamentalist population.

We also had a school consolidation recently, and a couple of rural schools in the mountains were closed, and the kids bused 20 miles to the large schools in the county seat. Well, it appears that the schools that closed were not in line with state standards, and that they might as well have been religious schools. Upshot? About half of the parents took the kids out of school in favor of homeschooling!

Please picture your most beloved stereotype of "hillbilly" and you will have an idea of the people who are now in charge of their children's education. (I wish we had emoticons on here, so I could insert rolling eyes!) THAT is scary.

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Christ is Anointed!!! Kaneh bosm!
Posted by: garry minor on Jul 4, 2007 2:26 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The title Christ means literally "Anointed". To be called worthy of the title "Christian", one must also be Anointed with the same oil as described in the original Hebrew of the Old Testament, Exodus 30:23. In 1936, Sula Benet, a Polish Anthropologist discovered that the Greeks incorrectly translated the word "kaneh bosm" as calamus or fragrant cane when rendering the Old Testament in the 3rd century BC. Benet contended through her research and etymological comparison the proper translation is Cannabis. In 1980 the Hebrew Institute of Jerusalem confirmed her claim that Kaneh bosm is indeed Cannabis. Kaneh is also listed as an incense tree in Song of Songs 4:14. The mistake was repeated in Isaiah 43:24, Jeremiah 6:20, and Ezekiel 27:19. There are 141 references to anointing and 145 for burning incense in your Bible.
1John 2:18-29 warns of many antichrist and reveals the mystical anointing which teaches all things. The word antichrist means literally; "opposed to or against, anointed, with oil as in a religious ceremony". John the Baptist claimed that while he baptized with water, Jesus would baptize with fire and the Holy Spirit, 1Samuel 16:13.
It seems that then as now there were certain men that taught Jesus but were against the Christ, anointing. Those same antichrist eventually took control of the church and today we are left with the results. But it had to happen. The Gnostic Gospel of Philip, buried in the sand for 1500 years along with other Christian texts that reveal and describe the mystical Chrism states;
" There is water in water, there is fire in "Chrism". And again it say's, "The "Chrism" is superior to baptism for it is from the word "Chrism" that we have been called "Christians", certainly not because of the word baptism. And it is from the word "Chrism" that the 'Christ" has his name. For the Father anointed the Son, and the Son anointed the Apostles, and the Apostles anointed us. He who has been anointed possesses everything. He possesses the Resurrection, the Light, the Cross, the Holy Spirit. The Father gave him this in the bridal chamber, he merely accepted the gift. The Father was in the Son and the Son in the Father. This is the Kingdom of Heaven."
So, I guess what I'm getting at is that these supposed Christian/Islam/Jewish warriors attempting to destroy our Earth are nothing but deceptive, disgusting, ungodly, racist, morons that could not be any further from the TRUTH and use their liar gods as a weapon for selfish destruction. Today most of them would simply watch as Jesus and his Disciples were arrested and hauled to jail for possession of a plant needed to make the Chrism for the salvation of souls and to repair the separation. Is that any way to glorify God? There is ultimately one Truth and One God, and that God spoke the Word Kaneh bosm! Whether you are Jewish, Christian or Muslim it begins with the expectation of Messiah/Christ or Anointed One. With all true religions there is alway's at the beginning a Tree of Life. Whether called kanaba, kaneh bosm, haoma, taima, etc. it is always there. It has been forgotten and ignored for too long! The thread that can weave us together!!!
Food, fuel, shelter, medicine, pleasure, spirituality. The Tree of Life.
If you Know the Truth the Truth will set you Free!!! Get Anointed!
Matthew 13:11-23 1John 2:18-29 Psalm 133

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Is anyone really surprised?
Posted by: Shey on Jul 4, 2007 3:24 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The goal of fundamentalist Christians has long been to turn this country into a religious dictatorship. This group may be on the most extreme fringe, with a call for things like the death penalty for homosexuals, and stoning as the prefered form of execution. They are literally calling for a country that is a Christian version of fundamentalist Islamic countries.
The thing to keep in mind is that a very fine line separates these extremist nut cases from a much larger body of fundamentalist Christians whose goals are basically the same, minus the stoning. For the moment. And this larger group is already in power in this country.

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These are just modern day pharisees, Christ would dismiss then with a wave of his hand.
Posted by: jgdewey on Jul 4, 2007 3:54 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Love one another as I have loved Thee and your neighbor as your self. Well, if they really did follow Christ they woudn't care a hoot about politics or schools, or people's sex lives. Because Christ did not give a hoot about these things. He cared about and watched the Heart of a person. If that person was a Roman or an adulterer or I would imagine a homosexual, he could care less. If that person was filled with love and compassion and could see that Jesus was of high consciousness and could lead them to God, and were willing to discipline themselves to find God, he accepted them into his fold. Regardless of their religion, sex life, income, job, or errors. So, until they do this they in my humble opinion are not Christians at all but modern day pharisees.

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» RE: Modern day pharisees Posted by: Jo1028
Second Coming Quickly Please
Posted by: renelucy on Jul 4, 2007 7:02 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If it's true I hope I'm around to see the return of Jesus. I don't believe in the resurrection or Jesus as God, but I do believe in loving all that is known and unknown (God to me) and to treat others as I wish to be treated. That's what I get out of the teachings of this guru called Christ. I have no fear of the "afterlife" anymore than I have of the before life or the present life. In fact, I'm looking forward to having a nice long talk with God about just what he had in mind when he/she created all these fundamentalist nut jobs!

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» RE: Second Coming Quickly Please Posted by: Ian MacLeod
Pete
Posted by: Intellect on Jul 5, 2007 6:45 PM   
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These religious maniacs are the biggest danger to our country, its Constitution and our democracy that has ever existed. They are the American Taliban!

Do some googling on Rousas Rushdoony, the founder of the Christian Reconstructionist lunacy, follow the members of the cult and their infiltration of our government.

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If Jesus hadn't risen, he'd be spinning in his grave.
Posted by: Beached Whale on Jul 6, 2007 12:21 PM   
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I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ. ~ Mohandas Gandhi

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RAD-CHRISTIANITES OVER LIBERALITES, ANYDAY
Posted by: Malcus Garvey on Jul 7, 2007 5:38 PM   
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Its about time we heard about some "radical" Christians. We've been led to believe only Muslims produce radical sects.
Compared to liberals, I favor radical Christians over these modern day Sodomites & Gomorrahites. With the radical ChristianItes there'll be minor pots of perversionism, with the way the liberals want it, there'll be pots of pedophiliacs, homoites, and incestuals, everywhere.
I'll take the Bible-Beaters, anyday.

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Promoting False Religions
Posted by: Jo1028 on Jul 11, 2007 7:28 AM   
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Since promoting false religions is one of the so-called sins deserving of death, I guess all these re-constructionists should be ready to greet the executioner. The Pope announced yesterday that ALL other so-called Christian religions (besides Roman Catholic) are false, or are not truly religions since they have no direct connections to the original apostolic line. There! Done with you! Go away!

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The Handmaiden's Tale
Posted by: Jo1028 on Jul 11, 2007 7:44 AM   
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Margaret Atwood's The Handmaiden's Tale gives a futuristic picture of what life would be like under the rule of the Christian Taliban. Trouble is even then they're still obsessed with sex and control of women's bodies. I think none of them have ever gotten past their adolescence and are still driven by the fluctuating hormones of puberty; the guilt they feel is projected into efforts to control everybody else's sex life, and gives them a righteous reason to fantasize.

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