COMMENTS: 167
Sorry, Thomas Friedman, the World Is Round
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Now every true revolution has a scribe, someone who is able to channel the zeitgeist into a passionate, living chronicle that fuels the insurgency and propels it to its ultimate historical destiny. The French Revolution had Voltaire, the American had Thomas Paine. For the new capitalist revolution, there is New York Times columnist Thomas Friedman. I know this because as I walk through the business class cabin of my United Airlines flight, passing all the young legionnaires of the jet-set globalist contingent, I count four copies of his bestselling book, The World Is Flat, and that's just in the first three rows. Seeing the books reminds me that Friedman was the only major figure to refuse my interview request. It's a drag, because there is probably no other liberal who fits the description of a wolf in sheep's clothing than America's preeminent globalization advocate.
Friedman was one of the first A-list liberals to peddle the idea that Iraqis would treat American soldiers as liberators. He believed the overthrow of Saddam Hussein represented the very best aspects of American liberalism. Six months after the invasion -- the same week I was interviewing Sgt. Hollis in Samarra -- Friedman declared, "This is the most radical-liberal revolutionary war the U.S. has ever launched -- a war of choice to install some democracy in the heart of the Arab-Muslim world." Like so many of his other liberal peers, Friedman denied there was economic dimension to the conflict. This war was different from past wars that their generation had protested. "U.S. power is not being used in Iraq for oil, or imperialism, or to shore up a corrupt status quo, as it was in Vietnam and elsewhere in the Arab world during the cold war," wrote Friedman in his column.
And yet, as many Iraqis told me during my time in-country, the imposition of democracy from a foreign power seemed to contradict the very essence of political freedom. Especially when the Americans were doing everything in their power to control the new system. Overwhelmingly, Iraqis seemed to believe that the creation of an authentic democratic structure would mean adoption of Islamic (sharia) law, which a great majority of them want. But for American liberals like Thomas Friedman, sharia represents a major failure; it would mean having spent billions to liberate a society only to see it retreat from the secular freedoms imposed by its former dictator.
To protect itself from this outcome, the United States stacked the newly liberated nation's political deck with as many pro-Western Iraqis as possible. But this only strengthened the convictions of many who saw the invasion and its promise of delivering true freedom as a wedge to open Iraq for U.S. corporate and military goals. A few days before leaving Baghdad, I listened to Rana al Aiouby, a young Iraqi translator, argue over tea with Hesham Barbary, an Egyptian businessman who had come to cash in on the new reconstruction contracts.
"So the Americans came here to save the Iraqi people?" al Aiouby asked incredulously.
"Partially," Barbary replied.
"They didn't come here to help the Iraqis. Everyone knows why the American came here ... because their economic system just collapsed. So they have to help themselves, and even if they'll make a disaster for the others, just, they want to survive. That's it."
Voices like Rana al Aiouby's are not present in Thomas Friedman's real-time history of globalization. They can't be. Prowar liberals like Friedman, architects of the new millennial liberal project, cannot afford to second-guess the motives driving America's War on Terror. From the outset, Friedman believed implicitly that Bush's Iraq War plan was a high-stakes gamble based on ideological motives, "the greatest shake of the dice any president has voluntarily engaged in since Harry Truman dropped the bomb on Japan." Others echoed the sentiment -- "This is Texas Poker," as arch-conservative Robert Novak put it -- pushing the idea that Bush had risked billions of dollars and thousands of lives like some Vegas roller. The analogy is instructive. Who bets the house on an abstraction? No one. So we're to believe that Bush and Cheney went for broke to bring democracy to Iraq? That's insanity. This is an administration so mired in cronyism and conflicts of interest that to believe they would take such a huge bet on a political ideal is delusional. And yet that is exactly what the pro-war liberals have done. The question is: why?
In Friedman's case, I believe it is because he implicitly understands that America is facing an insurmountable challenge to its global economic hegemony. His research for The World Is Flat brought him around the world to investigate the new paradigm emerging in transnational business. What he finds is that the old vertical ("command and control") systems are being replaced by horizontal ("connect and collaborate") ones and, in the process, blowing away walls and ceilings that were once integral to the rigid hierarchical structure of global commerce. He first made this discovery in Bangalore, India, where menial data entry and phone operator jobs in the accounting and banking fields are now being performed by English-speaking workers. This has been going on for years but, as Friedman explains, he was too busy covering the War on Terror to notice. It's not until Nandan Nilekani, the CEO of Infosys -- India's equivalent to Microsoft -- tells him "the playing field is being leveled," that Friedman realizes what he has stumbled upon.
Over and over again he exclaims: the world is flat, the world is flat, the world is flat! Capitalism is undergoing its new revolution, one that will be as transformative as "Gutenberg's invention of the printing press, the rise of the nation-state, or the Industrial Revolution."
But, like all revolutions, this one will have its winners and losers. Of the former, most obvious are corporate CEOs who will fatten their bottom line by tapping into the vast reservoir of cheap foreign labor. On the other side is Joe Six Pack, who will suffer from a net loss in American jobs. Much of the success of Friedman's book lies in his dire warnings to Americans that they are on the verge of a major crisis. Not only are hard-working, low-wage Indian workers stealing their jobs, but hard-working, tech-savvy Chinese students are increasingly taking seats in top undergrad and graduate college programs. And, Friedman frets, if America doesn't wake up, it will face a potentially disastrous decline: Or, as Infosys's CEO Nilekani later explains, the American middle class "has not yet grasped the competitive intensity of the future. Unless they [do], they will not make the investments in reskilling themselves, and you will end up with a lot of people stranded on an island."
So what does his support of the invasion of Iraq have to do with his The World Is Flat thesis? Everything. Like any good writer, Friedman understands that America loves a disaster movie, but only if it has a happy ending. So while the outlook may be grim for average workers, he is careful to paint a picture that is ultimately reassuring. The coming storm, he explains, will catalyze the transformation of America. "Each of us as an individual, will have to work a little harder and run a little faster to keep our standard of living rising." But this is never applied to the realm of U.S. foreign policy and how it might be shaped by these new threats to U.S. supremacy. Instead, a sort of delusional picture of globalization is presented, one in which the government plays no role whatsoever. And in this omission, in his obscuring of such an obvious force in world finance, we are given a hint at the lengths to which Friedman will go to deny the truth. Placing his Iraq coverage side by side with The World Is Flat, the message is that government is driven by a mission to liberate and democratize the world, the vast majority of whom will, like the post-Saddam Iraqis, joyfully embrace American-style capitalism. Not only is this a verifiably distorted vision of reality, it is a dangerous one. Because it keeps the millions of readers who bought Friedman's book from understanding why so much of the world has turned against America. And how dire the consequences of this ignorance will prove to be.
Pox Americana
Slipping into my window seat, I smile to myself. There, in the adjacent seat pocket, with a gold sticker shouting its status as "the bestselling nonfiction book in the world today," is another copy of The World Is Flat. I nod hello to the young female executive sitting next to me and pull out the book I have brought along. It's a thin essay by the 75-year-old Marxist intellectual Samir Amin that issues its own grim warnings about the future of our globalized world. Titled The Liberal Virus: Permanent War and the Americanization of the World, the cover photo shows a Chinese kid dressed in army fatigues, standing on the Wall of China holding a Coke can.
If Thomas Friedman is the prophet of 21st century capitalism, then Samir Amin is his anti-Christ. But to hear Amin tell it, Friedman is the only one leading humankind into the depths of Hell. Writing from Dakar, Senegal, where he runs the Third World Forum, Amin's thesis is essentially that liberalism, if allowed to continue on its path of creative destruction, will lead to an apocalyptic end. He likens the globalizing force of liberalism to a virus that has destroyed all ideological competitors and that is now making its final assault on its host species. According to Amin, the ethic of liberalism -- "Long live competition, may the strong win" -- is now ravaging societies of the Third World, causing further "social alienation and pauperization of urban classes."
It's nothing new from the far, far left. There are shelves full of books by anti-globalization writers from the developing world. What made me pick up Samir Amin's essay, though, was the striking specificity of his warning. In Liberal Virus, he argues that liberalism's most decisive effect will be to divide the world into an apartheid system that sees 3 billion peasant farmers pushed from their land and forced into the cities where they will die. This, he explains, will result from the implementation of a 2001 World Trade Organization (WTO) mandate that all agricultural markets be opened to the expansion of commercial agribusiness producers. Without the ability to make a subsistence living from their own land, half the world's population will have to migrate to the urban centers where there is no work for them. And thus, he concludes, they will be trapped in an "organized system of apartheid" on a global scale.
"What is going to become of these billions of human beings, already for the most part, the poor among the poor?" Amin asks. You don't have to be a red-blooded socialist to intuit his answer. "Capitalism," he concludes, "has become barbaric, directly calling for genocide." In this drive to satisfy the insatiable hunger for new markets of its Western clients, the WTO is sanctioning a process that will "destroy -- in human terms -- entire societies." Writing in a style that starkly contradicts Friedman's cheery cartoon of the flat world, Amin paints an ominous image of capitalism as a force that is in constant need to consume itself and the communities that lie in its path. Through his eyes, the agents of globalization bear an eerie resemblance to the Borg that battle Star Trek's Jean Luc Picard and his Enterprise crew. American liberalism echoes the Borg with the claim that it only seeks to "improve the quality of life for all species" through the spread of democracy while simultaneously warning the world that "resistance is futile -- you will be assimilated." But that is not to say Amin views liberalism as the victor. Rather, he describes it as a "senile system" that ultimately cannot stop the horror of its destiny.
Again, it isn't hard to find doomsday prophecies about the evils of capitalism. But what is interesting about Amin's book is that he offers an explanation for the phenomenal success of Friedman's ideas. Expanding his metaphor, Amin describes the liberal virus as one that "pollutes contemporary social thought and eliminates the capacity to understand the world, let alone transform it." So there is a kind of delusional episode occurring within the mass American psyche, one that has obscured what Amin terms "really existing capitalism" and replaced it with a fictitious model based on an "imaginary capitalism." According to Amin, liberals like Thomas Friedman conjure the illusion of a system that is inherently just and self-regulating while, in reality, it only creates permanent instability and requires constant intervention and protection by the armored shield of the state. "The globalized 'liberal' economic order," he writes, "requires permanent war -- military interventions endlessly succeeding one another -- as the only means to submit the peoples of the periphery to its demands."
I started reading Amin's book a few weeks after finishing The World Is Flat. And what struck me was that his description of the forces driving globalization was far closer to that of Sgt. Hollis, the tank commander I met in Iraq, than to Thomas Friedman's. What's more, his theory about the impact of the liberal virus on our ability to interpret the world drove me back into Friedman's book, where I found a quote that basically mirrors Amin's. Just before the halfway mark, Friedman writes: "The perspective and predispositions that you carry around in your head are very important in shaping what you see and what you don't see." Of course, he's not applying this to himself. Rather, it's a blunt critique of the fearful, knee-jerk reactions that American politicians and union leaders have thrown up to "protect" the U.S. economy from a genuinely "open" market. But the point is that, as we well know, everyone is the captive of their perspective. It frames and defines our worldview. Hence, for Friedman, the liberal business columnist, globalization = good, while for Amin, the African Marxist intellectual, globalization = bad. And for millions of readers who aspire to be a part of the new capitalist revolution, Friedman's vision is far more appealing than Amin's. Who can blame them?
But what if he's wrong? What if Friedman is as short-sighted and ill-informed as the military and government leaders who claimed to have had no forewarning of the Sept. 11 attacks? Beyond the sheer tactical breakdown of that day, much of the blame for the failure rests in a kind of voluntary blindness assumed by a great majority of Americans. It was that myopia that prevented so many brilliant and influential foreign policy analysts, defense experts and journalists from foreseeing the coming threat. And they continued to ignore the messages being sent from the developing world, collectively evading the difficult work of questioning what aspects of American foreign policy might have brought on such an attack, even after thousands of Mexican soccer fans chanted "Osama" at a post-9/11 match against the United States. Proving how little he has learned from his worldly travels, Friedman repeats the hollow mantra in his book, describing the terrorists as "angry, frustrated and humiliated men and women." And not far behind them, in his estimation, are the anti-globalization protesters -- comprised mostly of Trotskyites, anarchists and old hippies -- who are influenced by a heavy dose of anti-Americanism and defined by their denial of the inevitable triumph of flatness, arguing over the moot point of "whether we globalize." Naturally, Samir Amin is one of these people.
And herein lies the most troubling aspect of Friedman's popularity. He, and his readers, assume that anyone who opposes globalization from the side of the developing world -- either violently or ideologically -- is driven by a deep sense of shame at their poverty and inability to keep up with the West. But, at least as it applies to Samir Amin, nothing could be further from the truth. What Amin is articulating is a detailed warning about the same globalized world for which Friedman is such a wide-eyed proponent. But Friedman, and the millions who buy his books, is immune to it, because from his perspective, the forces of liberalism have only left enriched and industrialized societies in their wake. And this is precisely the kind of shortsightedness that crippled the West's ability to understand, or indeed prevent, the 9/11 attacks. In the somber days after al Qaeda hit New York and Washington, D.C., Americans like Friedman were unwilling to identify the causal forces that had inspired the terrorists. "Why do they hate us?" Friedman rhetorically asked in his column. Because of our freedom, he answered. Because, the liberal answered, we are liberals.
It would be easy to attribute Friedman's blockbuster sales to his orgiastic, gee-whiz, look-ma-no-hands celebration of all things corporate -- he never fails to name-drop his favorite brand names, from eating a Cinnabon while waiting to board a Southwest Airlines flight on the way to see his daughter at Yale to the 3M logo'd cap being worn by the caddy of an Indian executive who uses a distant HP skyscraper as a tee-off marker. Or to the fact that it is easy and very profitable to scare the shit out of an entire generation of Baby Boomers by essentially telling them their kids are in a neck-and-neck race to the top of the global food chain and, guess what, they're losing. In those respects, the book is a brilliant and well-conceived product. But I believe there is a much deeper significance to Friedman's success. And it has to do with the fact that America has reached a stage in its quest for global dominance in which it has no choice but to aggressively and openly tap these impoverished countries for cheap labor. And Thomas Friedman has come to put a lipstick smile on that old, twisted visage.
Scribbling notes on a drink coaster as the plane climbs past 10,000 feet, I think of Thomas Friedman writing his book in his own spacious business class seat on Lufthansa. Looking out of my window, I suddenly realize how he came so easily to his revelation. There, below me, the dark blue Atlantic Ocean stretches west for 1,000 miles and darned if it doesn't look flat. I wonder how much of Friedman's worldview has been shaped by the rarefied company of billionaire CEOs he keeps. Perhaps he has fooled himself into thinking that the invisible hand of liberal economics still softens to caress the weary shoulders of the poor, offering the opportunity for all people to reach the heights of corporate domination. We'll never know. What we do know is that it's been a long time since the champions of free market capitalism pretended to have any priority other than their quarterly profits and year-end bonuses. Of course, many of them have started making noises about the environment and poverty, but never in a way that will actually bring them to analyze root causes of these global ills. Until that happens, we can assume that it's mostly PR. And in this regard, Friedman plays a very important role as a kind of useful idiot. If capitalism is the sport of wolves, then the kind of happy-go-lucky globalization heralded by Thomas Friedman is the sheep's clothing. It's a sheath to cover the glint of their blade.
Copyright © 2007 Stephen Marshall from the book Wolves in Sheep's Clothing by Stephen Marshall. Published by The Disinformation Company, Ltd.; April 2007;$16.95US; 978-1932857-42-9
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Posted by: Lector on Jul 5, 2007 1:06 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Also, he’s a conservative at heart. Friedman happened to be a strong proponent of Operation Iraqi Freedom. He may have bashed Bush but when it mattered most, he supported Bush’s war policy. On September 13, 2003, he told Tim Russert on CNBC that “we need to go into the heart of their (Arab) world and beat their brains out, in order to burst this bubble.”
Friedman has also quoted an IBM scientist who said “We need to think more seriously than ever about how we encourage people to focus on productive outcomes that advance and unite civilization.” That “peaceful imaginations are needed to “minimize alienation and celebrate interdependence rather than self-sufficiency.” So , Marx, who always worried that capitalism-caused alienation, has now gained new disciples to carry out his utopian destinarianism.
Robert Lightfoot
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» I've often wondered if "Marxist destinarianism" was, in some way, a ploy to encourage
Posted by: zyxwvut
» Strange, indeed, I have never thought of Freidman as a liberal.... hmmmmm.
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Strange, indeed, I have never thought of Freidman as a liberal.... hmmmmm.
Posted by: albrechtkrausse
» Yeah, and the NAZIs were socialists...PLEASE!
Posted by: leafsong1
» RE: Yeah, and the NAZIs were socialists...PLEASE!
Posted by: albrechtkrausse
» RE: Yeah, and the NAZIs were socialists...PLEASE!
Posted by: richholland
» Freidman as a liberal.... hahahahhaha. Way to go, Prophit!
Posted by: LeftCoastProgressive
» RE: Freidman as a liberal.... hahahahhaha. Way to go, Prophit!
Posted by: Prophit
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Posted by: dancerkc on Jul 5, 2007 1:25 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Then came the flat-world book. I've been in IT for a lot of years. When I first heard summaries praising it I suspected Tom was full of it. Reading through it convinced me he is totally dumb about his subject.
As a worker "in the field" (I'll call it the "geek street") it was apparent to me that he had a talk-to-the-executives-over-golf type of approach. Any non-com or enlisted or any worker knows that executives blow smoke. Generally we feed them "executive" briefings because they are removed from our operations, don't understand our operations in any knowledgeable way and are just there to be "deciders."
And along comes Tom F. who listens to the execs, almost totally, except for a couple of anecdotes to flesh out his tomes. As a result his work is flat stupid, repeating self-serving executive-suite delusions and reality-distortion fields.
What galls me is that this kind of executive-spin message is what gets picked up by the MSM and too many others. They buy into easy answers for easy questions for easy stories to fill easy column inches. Because they don't know any better from ever having worked in the areas they write about.
And so Tommie swallows the thing, hook line and sinker (HSL) and then, in his seemingly endless enthusiasm and spasms of excitement, HLS Tommie writes volumes. If he really understood this stuff his current writings would embarass him.
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» RE: Hook, Line and Sinker Tommie
Posted by: Bozly
» RE: Hook, Line and Sinker Tommie
Posted by: notabilia
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Posted by: zyxwvut on Jul 5, 2007 1:44 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The primary contradiction of capitalism is its assumption of unlimited growth in a finite world. We are probably not going to branch out into the solar system very much in this century, if ever, so for all intents and purposes the environment from which to draw our collective livelihood is planet Earth. For argument's sake, even if humans do someday develop the infrastructural technology needed to colonize other worlds and enlarge the scope of commerce thusly (extra-globalization), the rate of population doubling in conditions of abundance is exponential and would shortly negate the benefits of a new frontier, leaving us again in a mess of overcrowding.
The most important question in the world today is this: How near is the human population to outstripping its resource base? Not only is global population growing exponentially, but the average ecological "footprint" of individual humans (a function of lifestyle) is as well, further compounding the issue.
To answer that question, we would need to know the dimensions of our resource base, which could involve a positive feedback loop between drawdown of resources and diminishment of the total resource base. That is, as certain resources are depleted, other resources, or the potential to develop them, are unintentionally depleted due to a disturbance propagating in a non-linear ecological system. This effect would result in a dynamic where the direct supply of products is growing exponentially (from exponential ecological footprint expansion on top of exponential population growth) and drawdown of the resource base is not occurring in equal proportion to that already-exponentially growing amount of resource exploitation, but instead is occurring in greater proportion because of cascading effects touched off by some forms of resource exploitation rendering other resources unavailable.
In this scenario, the situation for modern society would be like two trains on the same track accelerating toward one another. The gap between encroachment into the resource base and the ultimate extent of the base is closing, ever faster, from both sides.
There is a possibility that new, newly applied, or newly synthesized technologies can further expand the human carrying capacity of the global environment, even given the growing demands of lifestyle, but it is unclear if this expansion can keep pace with the growth of resource demands, and whether some potential technologies would positively loop with drawdown of some aspects of the resource base.
There are many unknowns, but considering that enlargement of the scope of commerce and modern industry has already reached the global level, the consequences, if the answer to this question is that we are near the limit, would be dire, i.e. collapse of the global economic system (in this case unsustainable) and die off in many populations.
Despite the unknowns, the stakes are now large enough to merit serious concern.
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» The Original Meaning of Liberal meant favoring a free market economy and democratic rule!!
Posted by: yellow
» Take the best, leave the rest...
Posted by: SteveB
» Would you like some less-connotational definitions, then?
Posted by: Aureantes
» Sure, you've got a point...
Posted by: SteveB
» RE: Sure, you've got a point...
Posted by: acers
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Posted by: cognitorex on Jul 5, 2007 3:52 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Do you get richer when oil prices go up and trade deals are signed making it easier for foreigners to take American jobs? No? Then you haven't got a dog in the hunt. You're a worker."
"When the Republican Party comes after your social security checks and your Mom's Medicare benefits, trust me, you're in that hunt, only it looks like you're the hunted not the hunter."
Craig Johnson
cognitorex blogspot
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» Nicely put, but . . .
Posted by: EKSwitaj
» "We just might bite back"... now thats true, Diana Feinstein was literally shaking when she
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Corporate Greed: You Ain’t Got a Dog in the Hunt
Posted by: trappedintwilightzone
» RE: Corporate Greed: You Ain’t Got a Dog in the Hunt
Posted by: LeftCoastProgressive
» RE: Corporate Greed: You Ain’t Got a Dog in the Hunt
Posted by: leafsong1
» There is one thing their money can't control...... broad, deep massive civil disobedience.
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: There is one thing their money can't control...... broad, deep massive civil disobedience.
Posted by: Tom Tele
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Posted by: UnEasyOne on Jul 5, 2007 4:03 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There are far too many examples of this for a slow typist like myself to cover here; I'll provide one.
The largest electricity provider in the state of Texas (TXU) announced that it was going to build 11 new coal-fired electrical generating plants. No way that was ever going to happen - even in Texas. Still, political logrolling to build began; so did the pushback. Suddenly a big LBO firm rides to the rescue with an offer to buy TXU and shortly thereafter announces a deal with some "environmentalists" to forgo construction of 8 of the plants.
Friedman then wrote a glowing column about this huge environmental "victory," praising the sharks and their "hybrid limousines."
Not mentioned of course, were a host of inconvenient facts: the agreement would not be legally binding, it would not in any way constrain future owners and no commitment was made not to do what LBO firms actually do - break the firm into it's constituent parts and sell them; the new owners still planned to build three new coal fired plants! Cynics (like myself) were heard to mutter that eight of the plants were throwaways - intended to make us feel better about three new massive polluters that would not be approved anywhere else in the country.
Every tome I hear Thomas Friedman and "liberal" mentioned in the same sentence, I cringe.
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» RE: With "Liberals" like Friedman, who needs neocons?
Posted by: willymack
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Posted by: Perfectclue on Jul 5, 2007 4:17 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
These are the class elites, with their class ideology, and criminal policies that justifies illegal aggressions, corporate fascism, and does not even notice the wholesale corruption of its own middle layers, what Olbermann said in on of his hard hitting commentaries on MSNBC. Keith correctly lableled them, a failed political class, and appeasing corrupt class of Neville Chamberlains, which includes both class parties, class ideologies: the democrtatic and repuglican class thugs have "streamlined this process", who betray the public on the issue of Iraq.
Actually, the betrayal, and class corruption, began as early as the collapse of the democratic revolutions, of the French Revolution, British, and American versions, when they institutionalized property rights over human rights, through their class laws, which served the emerging commercial, industrial oligarchy. This reproduced the class mechanism, that occurs between a corrupt middle class and oligarchy, and also established the class nationalism and Empire. Thus, Napoleon marched into Euorpe and Russia for the first capitalist Empire.
The ancent Greeks already understood the degenerative class processs on civil societies, that applies beyond the 300 years of Late Capitalism, and corporate fascism, and applies to the 3000 years of patriarchical class rule. The ongoing cycles of class republics, class democracy, morph into oligarchy, pluotcracy, tyrants, dictators, and Empire because this class mechanism operates on an international, and long historical road, a class mechanism, that rots out all national revolutions which have yet to transform, negate this global class system. These rotten class relations are the very ones that Thomas Friedman counts on to subordinate and cripple democracy and social growth, in the service of the oligarchy and American Empire, and therefore he has to make this very false claim, that all class ideologist, and class societies argue, already exists, and must be extended to global corporate, fascist, imperial policies.
Karl Marx, revolutionary liberals, as opposed to this and all rotten class liberals, would argue that all democratic, socialist movements have still yet to be proven wrong, because they have not removed this historical, global, patricarchical class lever, and the only way to construct a social and democratic principle, is to reconstruct a fully developed middle class, uncrippled, uncorrupted middle class, subordinated by class masters, and oligarchy. The negation of all class hieararchies, class ideologies, and class elites, not only on a national level, but on an international level, would finally displace this long term historical class lever, of 3000 yearts, the patriarchical class mechanism, that operates on a global level, for a universal mechanism on an international level. Thomas Friedman then truly would be "turned up side down", and the laughing butt of jokes, if he already isn't.
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» RE: A servile class ideologue lies and deforms reality for oligarchy
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: A servile class ideologue lies and deforms reality for oligarchy
Posted by: Perfectclue
» Whoa, Karl Marx?
Posted by: LeftCoastProgressive
» RE: Whoa, Karl Marx? and Whoa Major General Smedley Butler, who agrees with Marx.
Posted by: Perfectclue
» Whoa, dude, Karl Marx whoaaa...
Posted by: Coleman
» Are you saying,
Posted by: famouspipeliner
» RE: Are you saying, that famouspipeliner is superficial??
Posted by: Perfectclue
» RE: Are you saying, that famouspipeliner is superficial??
Posted by: famouspipeliner
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Posted by: Urstrly on Jul 5, 2007 4:27 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Friedman's Popularity
Posted by: hms2004
» Friedman
Posted by: CatDad
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Posted by: karma_ran_over_dogma on Jul 5, 2007 5:02 AM
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(quibble: Voltaire couldn't keep up with the zeitgeist of the French revolution, having died several years earlier.)
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» RE: Tom F. & McDonald's -- see Norman Angell
Posted by: hms2004
» Uh oh. What's our largest trading partner?
Posted by: karma_ran_over_dogma
» Interesting..talk about 'coincidence'!!!
Posted by: ekipnrut
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Posted by: Jabby on Jul 5, 2007 5:11 AM
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Let's face it: Unless progressives and liberals can be allies, fascism wins.
(Sheesh, even in Canada, progressives (NDP & Greens) can't scrounge up a third of the vote on their own.)
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» Please see comment above - author's usage is correct...
Posted by: SteveB
» RE: Please see comment above - author's usage is correct...
Posted by: kelt65
» RE: Please see comment above - author's usage is correct...
Posted by: LeftCoastProgressive
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Posted by: seamus on Jul 5, 2007 6:26 AM
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» RE: Friedman's a Liberal????????????
Posted by: seamus
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Posted by: willymack on Jul 5, 2007 6:48 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: KeepsonTickn on Jul 5, 2007 6:50 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have to shake my head when I see people fighting over ANWR. That oil will be drilled. If liberals have their way, it will be worth $500 a barrel when it is drilled. If conservatives have their way, it will be worth $50. When the oil is gone we will build hundreds of nuclear plants and burn the most sulphurous coal to keep it all going.
Not long after we run out of fuel, we will see the world's ecosystems, already drastically weakened by the sudden heating we caused, struck again by sudden cooling as the greenhouse gases dissipate (unfortunately though, the changes will not be sudden enough - there are a lot of systems, such as coral and many rainforests, that simply cannot survive hundred plus year cycles on this scale.)
Somehow, during this next few generations, human population will drop precipitously from the nine billion projected for 2050 to something less than the historically sustainable billion or so. This will happen, whether through humane, planned changes or through wars, famine and disease.
How can anyone not see this coming?
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» RE: Will we complete the globalization model before it grinds to a halt?
Posted by: ChrisSmith0077
» This year we will use up oil that took over 11 million years to form. Think about that.
Posted by: KeepsonTickn
» RE:What you say is a partial WS partys solution
Posted by: SJ
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Posted by: Ydotheyhateus on Jul 5, 2007 7:31 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The US Commerce Department spent $335,000 in 2003-04 on what was considered a comprehensive study on the impact of high-tech job loss in the US. Required to release the 360-page report in July 2004, the Bush administration stalled. Instead, in September 2005, it produced a tepid 12-page summary that championed job loss as a gain for the US economy. A fight in Congress eventually brought this document into the public domain although newspapers have failed to give it the attention it deserves.
The study shows that the attrition of jobs in the high-tech sector is quite serious for those who live within the US. Between 2000 and 2003, the number of engineers employed in the US dropped by 4,000, while those hired by US semiconductor firms offshore increased by 10,000. "As leading companies locate in or contract with labour in other countries," the report argues, "concerns about the shift of work include fears that higher value work may shift from the United States to other locations, impacting US industrial strength and high-salary employment... . Offshoring of design work can also impose downward pressure on US wages and reduce the demand for US design engineers. As the number of overseas design centres increases, it may draw foreign talent from the United States."
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» RE: While Americans watch American idol and quarrel over
Posted by: Bozly
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Posted by: shangrilalad on Jul 5, 2007 7:46 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
.
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Posted by: lambchops on Jul 5, 2007 7:46 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Thank you for writing about Friedman's book because that one I will not be reading.
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Posted by: Elfits on Jul 5, 2007 8:10 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Friedman
Posted by: Bozly
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Posted by: kelt65 on Jul 5, 2007 8:19 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As for whether he is 'liberal': he most certainly is. He is a classic liberal; liberals have always been capitalists. It is only the post civil rights era that liberals have been viewed as progressive in any way.
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» "liberals have always been capitalists"
Posted by: LeftCoastProgressive
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Posted by: osisbs on Jul 5, 2007 8:37 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Maybe there are such things as "good" and "bad" capitalism, but I'm not seeing them.
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» RE: vidence of Industry Eating Its Own
Posted by: DCBeltway
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Posted by: Ghoulman on Jul 5, 2007 8:53 AM
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Posted by: Francis on Jul 5, 2007 9:08 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Thomas Friedman and his wife as "Zionist operatives and assets"? Sounds like Tom Clancy on Acid!!
Posted by: yellow
» Fiddler Under the Bed
Posted by: edith
» RE: Francis
Posted by: mobilone
» Edith are you paid to annoy people with your cracker comments about Jews controlling the US media?
Posted by: yellow
» Denial doesn't change the "truth"..... its there and in your face..... more and more .......
Posted by: Prophit
» Murdoch alone has 30% penetration...
Posted by: justaguy
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Posted by: fanny666 on Jul 5, 2007 9:23 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Critique of Thomas Friedman
The second one is very long, but worth reading.
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Posted by: eddie torres on Jul 5, 2007 9:44 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Right War, Wrong Tactics; Hussein in the Membrane; How the Media Lies About China; and Flathead by Matt Taibbi
Flattening the Great Education Myth; Billionaire Scion Tom Friedman; and Tom Friedman's Hatred of Workers by David Sirota
Tom Friedman: apologist for the faux enviros by James Howard Kunstler
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Posted by: vssmith on Jul 5, 2007 10:09 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Sam
Posted by: DCBeltway
» In fact an article/commentary is finally coming out about that fact.
Posted by: Prophit
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Posted by: HughScott on Jul 5, 2007 10:12 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: litist lapdog for the rich and powerful.
Posted by: LeftCoastProgressive
» "LeftCoastProgressive": another rightwing troll. You aren't fooling anyone, stealth Bushie.
Posted by: HughScott
» RE: litist lapdog for the rich and powerful.
Posted by: Bozly
» Raising the price on a monopoly service is indeed unjust.
Posted by: edith
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Posted by: allyourbasearebelongtous on Jul 5, 2007 10:23 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: another circular firing squad
Posted by: LeftCoastProgressive
» RE: another circular firing squad
Posted by: allyourbasearebelongtous
» Aaah, LCP, why don't you tell us what you really think??? LOL How refreshing..... LOL
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Aaah, LCP, why don't you tell us what you really think??? LOL How refreshing..... LOL
Posted by: allyourbasearebelongtous
» Oh, lighten up.... not everything has to have doom and gloom on it.
Posted by: Prophit
» Where's the Liberal?
Posted by: edith
» RE: Where's the Liberal?
Posted by: allyourbasearebelongtous
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Posted by: ceti on Jul 5, 2007 10:51 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: gracefounddog on Jul 5, 2007 10:59 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think it's important to distinguish a "new green" from a traditional American "liberal." Just as we must distinguish a neocon from a traditional conservative. To fail to recognize the difference is to be uninformed, which isn't hard to do since our media is sold out and covering up the truth. Failing to make the distinction means we're uniformed. We are in a CRISIS as a nation and the last thing we need is our attachment to partisan sides!! This is COUP. Please inform yourselves! Hilary and Obama are neogreens, as well as Gore. We are in huge trouble if we elect yet another NEO. These people are wolves in sheeps clothing.
Friedman the Fraudulent
Must Read:CHILLING!!
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» RE: Neocons and New Greens are Agents of the Military Industrial Complex
Posted by: 2Truthy
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Posted by: Beached Whale on Jul 5, 2007 11:46 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Roverton on Jul 5, 2007 12:10 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: THE NEO'S HAVE TAKEN EVERYTHING ELSE
Posted by: babs
» RE: THE NEO'S HAVE TAKEN EVERYTHING ELSE
Posted by: Roverton
» RE: THE NEO'S HAVE TAKEN EVERYTHING ELSE
Posted by: bob t
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Posted by: amilius on Jul 5, 2007 12:54 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
'Benevolence' is that which might be shared with all.
'Advantage', by definiton, is that which cannot be shared with all. Confusing these things serves the ungracious purposes of hypocrites like Mr. Friedman.
He's no liberal.
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» Hear, hear -- too many people here have lost their etymologies through economics courses
Posted by: Aureantes
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Posted by: 2Truthy on Jul 5, 2007 2:00 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Excellent article and a long overdue book on the liberal elite agenda to eradicate our middle class. I have always considered that blowhard (Friedman) to be conservative, and yet the liberal label you give him makes sense in context at least one way, which is in the company he keeps. Friedman has managed to become the PR tool for many Silicon Valley tech and financial elites who are currently involved in stelath GREEN tech deals which involve a complicit Democratic Congress and other possible election candidates with green interests. In what has been said to be the 'final push' to the trough before the Chinese call in the debt, these wealthy tech and financial elites have banded together to cash out before the economic collapse that will solidify the trench between the wealthy and the feudal society that Friedman's posse has architected to rid this nation of its middle class through selling off our jobs to the third world.
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Posted by: rcunice on Jul 5, 2007 2:12 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: IguessI'mnotsoliberal
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: IguessI'mnotsoliberal
Posted by: DCBeltway
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Posted by: Hal on Jul 5, 2007 3:52 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This “capitalist revolution” line is emotional garbage that falsely frames the entire debate. Marshall thus betrays a steep ignorance of economics and strategic geo-politics throughout. And the democratization of global business is pure red herring.
Neocon Friedman is as “liberal” as Bush-Cheney is “conservative” (that is to say not at all). T. Friedman and countless others of a faux leftwing MSM establishment are no better than sellout carnies working for a de facto CORPORATE CRIME MONOPOLY STATE that makes an Orwellian mockery of capitalism and democracy.
“He [Thomas Friedman] believed the overthrow of Saddam Hussein represented the very best aspects of American liberalism.”
Really? Au contraire.
Let’s say “American liberalism” is what T. Friedman, William Kristol, David Brooks, Richard Pearl, Hillary Clinton, Joe Lieberman, and ad nauseum would like suckers and patsies to believe it is.
Anyone with a ghost of a clue knew a 911 cover-up and its equally bogus “war on terror” was a blood money global farce. In Iraq “war on terror” was built up as a key puppet garrison state for a CORPORATE CRIME MONOPOLY STATE in charge of DC, London and Tel Aviv.
This has always been about a Eurasian/Mid East plan to dominate Big Oil resources thru cartel fiat banking with Israel as strategic backup. Anyone who buys into other core motives has swallowed the psyop and systemic Kool-Aid.
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» RE: SORRY –> MERCURY INSURANCE
Posted by: apophenia_monkey
» RE: SORRY –> DC-MSM KOOL-AID
Posted by: Hal
» RE: SORRY –> DC-MSM KOOL-AID
Posted by: apophenia_monkey
» RE: You're Projecting Again, Monkey -- Take a Little Trip...
Posted by: apophenia_monkey
» RE: Now whose...
Posted by: apophenia_monkey
» Monkey Project, Monkey Do…
Posted by: Hal
» RE: SORRY –> the WORLD is RIGGED by CORPORATE MONOPOLY (FASCISM)
Posted by: EncinoM
» Speak for Yourself, Sleepy (Tin Foil Becomes You)...nm
Posted by: Hal
» h=i a=b l=m
Posted by: apophenia_monkey
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Posted by: medstudgeek on Jul 5, 2007 4:17 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
He's calling Friedman a capitalist pig, not a fellow-traveler with Howard Dean, Barack Obama, and Dennis Kucinich.
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» RE: 'Liberal' here = capitalist!
Posted by: KeepsonTickn
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Posted by: medstudgeek on Jul 5, 2007 4:22 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Ian MacLeod on Jul 5, 2007 4:43 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Last I heard, Liberals were for controlling Big Business so that it didn't mindlessly destroy the economy, the environment and the very societies in which they exist. Liberals have always stood for helping the poor and others who have been devastated by circimstance, for feeding the hungry, vaccinating children - everything the neocons want to get rid of. Conservatives have always wanted segregation between "races" (there's only one race on the planet: human), socio-economic strata and every other possible division they could find. They are elitists to the core, pretending (though their sincerity is even more frightening) to be doing all this "for your own good", apparently certain that getting out of the corporate road will force healthy competition instead of corporate predation on each other and on us until there's just one big Super-Megacorp remaining to represent business and government: fascism. That's the direction unfettered business always takes, has always taken, and always will.
So when did all that come to represent Liberalism? It makes no sense whatsoever. Suddenly Liberals are being accused of doing everything they've always been against, everything the so-called conservatives actually are doing. The neocons have done all they could to make liberalism a dirty word precisely because liberals demand that business be regulated so it doesn't kill people in it's unending search for MORE PROFITS, and INFINITE EXPANSION - in a finite system. Liberals want people educated, fed, treated when they're ill, and real competition between busineses to the improvement of quality for all instead of the enrichment of a literal handful and the impoverishment of everyone else.
This article seems to be buying into the necon's foundation lie: that bad business practice is the fault of a Liberal conspiracy that never existed; this while they themselves throw out all rules that don't lead to greater profits for cronies and themselves not matter the cost to everyone else. I feel like I've stepped into a weird looking-glass world where everything is inverted. I don't get it.
Ian
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» RE: So just when did "Liberal" get redefined, and by whom?
Posted by: SWMarshall
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Posted by: BewareTheZiocons on Jul 5, 2007 5:09 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
White man's burden by Ari Shavit
In the course of the past year, a new belief has emerged in the town: the belief in war against Iraq. That ardent faith was disseminated by a small group of 25 or 30 neoconservatives, almost all of them Jewish, almost all of them intellectuals (a partial list: Richard Perle, Paul Wolfowitz, Douglas Feith, William Kristol, Eliot Abrams, Charles Krauthammer), people who are mutual friends and cultivate one another and are convinced that political ideas are a major driving force of history. They believe that the right political idea entails a fusion of morality and force, human rights and grit. The philosophical underpinnings of the Washington neoconservatives are the writings of Machiavelli, Hobbes and Edmund Burke. They also admire Winston Churchill and the policy pursued by Ronald Reagan. They tend to read reality in terms of the failure of the 1930s (Munich) versus the success of the 1980s (the fall of the Berlin Wall).
[snip]
Is this an American Lebanon War? Tom Friedman says he is afraid it is. He was there, in the Commodore Hotel in Beirut, in the summer of 1982, and he remembers it well. So he sees the lines of resemblance clearly. General Ahmed Chalabi (the Shi'ite leader that the neoconservatives want to install as the leader of a free Iraq) in the role of Bashir Jemayel. The Iraqi opposition in the role of the Phalange. Richard Perle and the conservative circle around him as Ariel Sharon. And a war that is at bottom a war of choice. A war that wants to utilize massive force in order to establish a new order.
Tom Friedman, The New York Times columnist, did not oppose the war. On the contrary. He too was severely shaken by September 11, he too wants to understand where these desperate fanatics are coming from who hate America more than they love their own lives. And he too reached the conclusion that the status quo in the Middle East is no longer acceptable. The status quo is terminal. And therefore it is urgent to foment a reform in the Arab world.
[snip]
Is the Iraq war the great neoconservative war? It's the war the neoconservatives wanted, Friedman says. It's the war the neoconservatives marketed. Those people had an idea to sell when September 11 came, and they sold it. Oh boy, did they sell it. So this is not a war that the masses demanded. This is a war of an elite. Friedman laughs: I could give you the names of 25 people (all of whom are at this moment within a five-block radius of this office) who, if you had exiled them to a desert island a year and a half ago, the Iraq war would not have happened.
The Israel Lobby
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N294FMDok98
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNQv5YSg_YA
Neocons advocate war with Iraq in the weeks after 9/11
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLv69k3G2Qg
Toxic Talk on War
http://www.washingtonpost.com
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugesi_gaqLU
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» RE: Lebanon and Iraq hand picked leaders PUPPETS Iraq war Try reading Bin laudins statement
Posted by: SJ
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Posted by: SWMarshall on Jul 5, 2007 6:24 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I had forgotten how engaged this community was... the responses to this excerpt could keep me writing for months. It's true, the words "liberal" and "conservative" mean so little these days. Especially in the US, where proponents of domestic "liberal" values can be villified by conservatives who simultaneously share their belief in "free trade" and "globalization," as well as the way that America exerts itself economically through financial instruments like the WTO and World Bank.
This is just an excerpt of course. And I spend the first part of the book being very clear about just what I mean by the word liberal: its etymological roots, philosophical underpinnings and where the neo-cons (who were, as some of you have pointed out, all liberals before they got "mugged by reality") went astray. I also go into depth (through an illuminating interview with former Economic Hit Man John Perkins) about the lie of "free trade."
But I thought this bit from the end of the first chapter might add a useful dimension to this discussion of American liberalism as it's viewed from abroad. I have cornered Christopher Hitchens in the Green Room at the Hay Festival who admits that as a lifelong socialist, he has now embraced capitalism. [it's too long to post here so will do it in a next one, you can find other excerpts on the book site]
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» RE: Marshall since you are writing to americans get your terms straight...
Posted by: SWMarshall
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Posted by: SWMarshall on Jul 5, 2007 6:33 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
“From this viewpoint, Mr. Stevenson’s face, with its shiftily earnest advocate’s expression, is the ingratiating moral mask which a toughly acquisitive society wears before the world it robs: ‘liberalism’ is the ideology of the rich, the elevation into universal values of the codes which favoured the emergence, and favour the continuance, of the capitalist society.”
It was an indictment that resonated with Hitchens, then a budding eighteen year-old socialist.
“Actually, if you read that essay,” he explains, “it was exactly what I felt for us on the left in Britain: the word liberal was a very rude thing to call somebody. Liberalism was an attempt to drape capitalism with some kind of pious social conscience… It used to be preceded almost always with the term ‘wishy-washy.’”
Hitchens takes a long drag on his cigarette, adding, “In America now, liberal is the word that the right uses to defame secularism, welfarism, anti-militarism and so on. I think because it’s no longer plausible to attack communism. There used to be two ways of attacking liberalism. One was to say ‘limousine liberal’ – it’s very much what one would call myself – and the other was as ‘soft on’ communism.”
“I think the verdict of history is in," he sighs, "one may feel a little wistful about it, but wistfulness is no good as a dialectical method. At all. So, in fact, capitalism is reasserting itself as the only revolution. And it takes a Marxist to see it, sometimes.”
“Asserting itself as what kind of revolution?” I ask.
“As the only dynamic revolutionary force in the world, reasserting itself after having gone through terrible decay; after all capitalism led to imperialism, to fascism, to war. Led to the great crisis in the 20s and 30s. It’s true, don’t let’s forget. And not just morally true, it’s politically true. It looked as if it were dead-ended. It really did. And to most of its supporters it did too. And that’s why they went Keynesian. They thought, we can only save it this way. You had to buy [the workers] off. That’s what’s happened since: you’ve got to give these guys a health service, protection of work, and this and that. And also give them some money so they can go on buying things."
“It will never get to the point of stasis, it will keep on consuming itself... Joseph Schumpeter called it creative destruction: capitalism needs to go on devouring things and making things unstable and dangerous in order to keep on existing. Finding shorter and more scientific routes to production, productivity, demand, efficiency, discarding waste or competition, creating and then breaking up monopolies. It creates a destructive force. But anyone can recognize it as a revolution. It’s the only revolution in town.”
He says it with a kind of swagger that almost feels triumphant and then declares the inevitable: “But now we think it’s very unlikely that its workers will become its managers. That doesn’t seem as if that’s ever going to happen. They can become its beneficiaries.”
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Posted by: SWMarshall on Jul 5, 2007 6:34 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[...]
In his essay that so inspired the young socialist Hitchens, Connor Cruise O’Brien chronicles a conversation between himself and Kwame Nkrumah, the pan-Africanist leader who became the first Prime Minister of Ghana. Nkrumah was then involved in trying to make Ghana into a socialist society. Of this effort, O’Brien writes, he believed “this government had been right to reject the façade of liberalism,” and that he saw in it a “greater sense of responsibility to the people — not in a formal sense but in a profound one — than [in] neighboring states with more apparently liberal constitutions.”
When Nkrumah asked O’Brien, who was there to work with the government, if he was a socialist, the Irishman replied that he was, understanding that to be a liberal in Africa was a to be a “false friend.” But driving home after the interview, Connor explains, he realized that a liberal was in fact what he was.
“Whatever I might argue, I was more profoundly attached to liberal concepts of freedom… than I was to the idea of a disciplined party mobilizing all the forces of society for the creation of a social order guaranteeing more real freedom for all instead of just for a few.”
I wonder if Hitchens is aware just how much he echoes the reluctant admission of his literary polestar in his own acquiescence to the fatality of the socialist ideal. As one of the highest paid writers in the United States, what else can he do but accept his own latent capitalism?
“It means we’ve conceded,” he says, “that capitalism has embarked on another revolution. It’s not only survived the battle with socialism but it’s replenishing and extending and strengthening itself, without a viable or plausible alternative.”
With the daylight now flirting with the crimson hues of sunset, Hitchens rises from his chair. Bidding me goodbye, he wishes me luck in discovering my own path, away from the Left he now sees as reactionary defenders of the status quo.
“There’s no longer any Left and I can’t be any part of it. It took a lot for me to get to the realization that it was,” he pauses for effect, “conservative. I wasted so much time… you could save yourself the trouble. You’ll feel better.”
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» Beneficiaries
Posted by: Coleman
» RE: the Hitchens excerpt (2)
Posted by: Ian MacLeod
» RE: the Hitchens excerpt (2)
Posted by: SWMarshall
» ECHO CHAMBER @ AMERIKA CORP
Posted by: Hal
Comments are closed-
Posted by: vzn on Jul 5, 2007 7:15 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
the underlying money system itself is broken at best, corrupt at worst.
probably intentionally so. "thats not a bug, its a feature"
consider a free electronic paper I wrote called
fractional reserve banking as economic parasitism
endorsed by two phd economists. printed in nexus
magazine, 60k world circulation. #1 top downloaded
economics paper. used by economics
teacher in australia as standard classroom material.
more info on request.
recent supporting material:
- confessions of an economic hit man by Perkins
- money as debt video by Grignon
- Congressman pres candidate Dennis Kucinich
at last years
2005 Monetary Reform Conference
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» More uneducated John Birch Cracker Society Bullshit. Grow up and actually learn how the fed works.
Posted by: yellow
» Its M3, you idiot that counts when dealing with inflation and the Fed just quit publishing it! Why?
Posted by: Prophit
Comments are closed-
Posted by: opeluboy on Jul 5, 2007 7:23 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And of course Friedman, an ardent Zionist who plays at viewing Israel/Palestine objectively (while carefully slanting all he writes entirely pro-Israel) is for any war that eliminates hundreds of thousands of Israel's enemies, real or imagined, born or yet unborn, crawling or walking, armed or unarmed, male or female, old or young.
And it is of course this Israel-first supremacism that allows Friedman, along with Emerson, Miller, Schwartz, Ledeen, Pollack, Lewis, Krauthammer, Saphire, Gold and all the other Zionists who infest our media, to pontificate on the Middle East, terrorism, Arabs and Islam as if they were truly experts, and not simply propagandists and apologists for one of the more disgusting regimes of our time. Their presence and status proves, if one needed it, that our media is truly controlled by their ilk, and that it is not just a case of "overrepresentation." Were this not the case, the media might allow some of these "experts" to actually by residents of the Middle East, Arabs or Muslims. They don't (unless they're total Quislings).
I am sure I will be called an anti-Semite (again) and other names by the regular Zionazis who daily scan this site for any anything unfavorable to their one true cause and only country that holds their loyalty. And as usual, they will offer no arguments or refutation, just insults. I am also sure someone will argue that Friedman has made certain noises that sound like actual support for Palestinian freedom.
It will be,of course, utter bullshit.
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» My Zionist Paycheck
Posted by: apophenia_monkey
» RE: My Zionist Paycheck
Posted by: opeluboy
» RE: My Zionist Paycheck
Posted by: apophenia_monkey
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Posted by: ekipnrut on Jul 5, 2007 7:37 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[following is my comment to an August 2006 Alternet article]:
Why Does Tom Friedman Still Have a Job?
By Robert Parry, Consortium News. Posted August 21, 2006.
Smiling Face
Posted by: ekipnrut on Aug 24, 2006 12:48 AM
.....The threshold question regarding Mr. Friedman is simply
why should his opinions,analyses or pontifications be given
any elevated status whatsoever to begin with ?
He has no particularly noteworthy academic or intellectual
qualifications.....a chickenhawk....married into big bucks...
...an arrogant pampered self serving asswipe who,with the
stroke of his pundit's pen, is willing to rationalize horrors for
'foreigners' of color that he couldn't begin to fathom for his
family.
Think back and over the last twenty years or so: name one
epiphany,even a cogent prescient observation on world
affairs, published by this man. Zip,nada,nothing.
A pimp and a lackey for war criminals and the architects
of the intended New World Order
Who cares WTF he predictably 'thinks'.
BTW: (from the August 2006 Parry article ref above): Under principles of international law applied from Nuremberg to Rwanda, propagandists who contribute to war crimes or encourage crimes against humanity can be put in the dock alongside the actual killers.
Though such a fate may not await America's pro-war pundits, Friedman and other commentators who helped ease the way to Bush's unprovoked invasion of Iraq, and thus contributed to the ongoing slaughters in the Middle East, might at least have the decency to admit their incompetence and resign.
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Posted by: SteveB on Jul 5, 2007 9:31 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And what's the response to this provocative idea? Whiny complaints that he's misused the word "liberal", even though his usage is, in fact, the way the word is used everywhere in the world except the U.S.
What can we learn from this? 1) Some folks care more about labels than actual people and 2) Americans apparently have a right to define words to mean anything they want, even if billions of people living outside the U.S. disagree.
To outraged American liberals, I say this: this article isn't about you. It's about the survival of most of this planet's population. Try to get over yourselves, and see if you have anything useful to say about that.
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» What "specifics" am I missing?
Posted by: SteveB
» Better Question: What "specifics" are you NOT missing?
Posted by: Hal
» RE: What a shame...
Posted by: Ian MacLeod
» RE: What a shame...
Posted by: bob t
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Posted by: allyourbasearebelongtous on Jul 5, 2007 10:35 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Maybe with the next election, some things could start to move in a better direction but if we have eight more years like this, things will begin to be even more obviously falling apart than they are now.
On another level, its not about capitalism and socialism. Its about routinized relationships of power, domination and privilege in any society. What goes on in societies now is not substantially different from the biggest strongest alpha male running the tribe 100,000 years ago and getting the best food and the best shelter for himself, his mate and his offspring. We really haven't gotten much beyond that even though our technology has changed considerably.
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» RE: global corporate economy stranglehold
Posted by: richholland
» RE: global corporate economy stranglehold
Posted by: allyourbasearebelongtous
» RE: Yes there are...
Posted by: bob t
» RE: global corporate economy stranglehold
Posted by: Ian MacLeod
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Posted by: Swedish liberal on Jul 6, 2007 5:02 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In the US liberal seems to equate socialist and Green even revolutionary socialists and communists. They are relativists that accept human rights violations in third world countries because of culture differences. In Sweden it would never be the case.
A liberal in the US is per definition against globalisation and market economy. Globalisation is neither good nor bad, it is like the weather, and it exists whether you like it or not. Market economy is so far the only economic system that is viable and the only system that creates welfare for all. Socialism and communism has failed on a grand scale. (Europe and Sweden are not socialist; they are fully grown market economies. The difference is higher taxes and more income distribution. Otherwise the there is very little difference between the US or Europe.)
To be a liberal is not being a socialist or Green it is in fact just the opposite.
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» RE: Dear Swedish Liberal... part one
Posted by: bob t
» RE: Mr. Swedish Liberal, part two
Posted by: bob t
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Posted by: Tomasdelsol on Jul 6, 2007 7:57 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
PS Did Gore read the "Greening of America"?
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Posted by: Just Curious on Jul 7, 2007 6:40 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Remember the immortal words of Humpty Dumpty:
"Words mean exactly what I want them to mean; nothing more and nothing less"
In the hands of both Americans and, increasingly Europeans, it's simply another version of Conservative (i.e. right wing). A kinder, more caring form of conservatism, perhaps, but conservatism nonetheless.
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Posted by: rogeralexander on Jul 8, 2007 1:05 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: carl baydala on Jul 8, 2007 8:15 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I did not believe his rhetoric then and I would not believe it now if I heard it again. I will rely on the author's description and criticism of Friedman's book which he read, and one which I will most likely never read. I don't really know why and when most people either become full-fledged proponents of the capitalist system, or like myself, maintain a tendency to identify its faults and point out its more negative features.
Capitalism currently has many faults as any intelligent human being can easily assess. The war in Iraq has much more to do with personal gain than with the implementation of democracy and saving a people from a dictator. We know why the U.S. invaded the country and it was not because some terrorists attacked New York City on a bright sunny day. I thought most people knew that by now and would question the use of terrorism as the reason for the invasion of Iraq and the liberation of the whole Middle East. I was just wondering why in the article the author skates over this issue whithout really questioning the reason for war as supplied by the elites.
His failure to do so made me question his motives for writing this very good article. As the author points out, that is where we are in the world right now; there are the believers and apologists for globalization like Friedman and there are others like myself who see that capitalism has a dark side as well. War is not the only negative to capitalism and imperialism, it is that slow and steady march to slavery and financial enslavement that concerns me the most. ( I am thinking primarlily here of the separation of the classes in the U.S and of the accumulation of debt by the nation and the people as consumers )
The people who control the economic and financial levers in the world have a great deal of influence on how I feel and think.
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Posted by: Lector on Jul 5, 2007 1:06 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Also, he’s a conservative at heart. Friedman happened to be a strong proponent of Operation Iraqi Freedom. He may have bashed Bush but when it mattered most, he supported Bush’s war policy. On September 13, 2003, he told Tim Russert on CNBC that “we need to go into the heart of their (Arab) world and beat their brains out, in order to burst this bubble.”
Friedman has also quoted an IBM scientist who said “We need to think more seriously than ever about how we encourage people to focus on productive outcomes that advance and unite civilization.” That “peaceful imaginations are needed to “minimize alienation and celebrate interdependence rather than self-sufficiency.” So , Marx, who always worried that capitalism-caused alienation, has now gained new disciples to carry out his utopian destinarianism.
Robert Lightfoot
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» I've often wondered if "Marxist destinarianism" was, in some way, a ploy to encourage
Posted by: zyxwvut
» Strange, indeed, I have never thought of Freidman as a liberal.... hmmmmm.
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Strange, indeed, I have never thought of Freidman as a liberal.... hmmmmm.
Posted by: albrechtkrausse
» Yeah, and the NAZIs were socialists...PLEASE!
Posted by: leafsong1
» RE: Yeah, and the NAZIs were socialists...PLEASE!
Posted by: albrechtkrausse
» RE: Yeah, and the NAZIs were socialists...PLEASE!
Posted by: richholland
» Freidman as a liberal.... hahahahhaha. Way to go, Prophit!
Posted by: LeftCoastProgressive
» RE: Freidman as a liberal.... hahahahhaha. Way to go, Prophit!
Posted by: Prophit
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Posted by: dancerkc on Jul 5, 2007 1:25 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Then came the flat-world book. I've been in IT for a lot of years. When I first heard summaries praising it I suspected Tom was full of it. Reading through it convinced me he is totally dumb about his subject.
As a worker "in the field" (I'll call it the "geek street") it was apparent to me that he had a talk-to-the-executives-over-golf type of approach. Any non-com or enlisted or any worker knows that executives blow smoke. Generally we feed them "executive" briefings because they are removed from our operations, don't understand our operations in any knowledgeable way and are just there to be "deciders."
And along comes Tom F. who listens to the execs, almost totally, except for a couple of anecdotes to flesh out his tomes. As a result his work is flat stupid, repeating self-serving executive-suite delusions and reality-distortion fields.
What galls me is that this kind of executive-spin message is what gets picked up by the MSM and too many others. They buy into easy answers for easy questions for easy stories to fill easy column inches. Because they don't know any better from ever having worked in the areas they write about.
And so Tommie swallows the thing, hook line and sinker (HSL) and then, in his seemingly endless enthusiasm and spasms of excitement, HLS Tommie writes volumes. If he really understood this stuff his current writings would embarass him.
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» RE: Hook, Line and Sinker Tommie
Posted by: Bozly
» RE: Hook, Line and Sinker Tommie
Posted by: notabilia
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Posted by: zyxwvut on Jul 5, 2007 1:44 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The primary contradiction of capitalism is its assumption of unlimited growth in a finite world. We are probably not going to branch out into the solar system very much in this century, if ever, so for all intents and purposes the environment from which to draw our collective livelihood is planet Earth. For argument's sake, even if humans do someday develop the infrastructural technology needed to colonize other worlds and enlarge the scope of commerce thusly (extra-globalization), the rate of population doubling in conditions of abundance is exponential and would shortly negate the benefits of a new frontier, leaving us again in a mess of overcrowding.
The most important question in the world today is this: How near is the human population to outstripping its resource base? Not only is global population growing exponentially, but the average ecological "footprint" of individual humans (a function of lifestyle) is as well, further compounding the issue.
To answer that question, we would need to know the dimensions of our resource base, which could involve a positive feedback loop between drawdown of resources and diminishment of the total resource base. That is, as certain resources are depleted, other resources, or the potential to develop them, are unintentionally depleted due to a disturbance propagating in a non-linear ecological system. This effect would result in a dynamic where the direct supply of products is growing exponentially (from exponential ecological footprint expansion on top of exponential population growth) and drawdown of the resource base is not occurring in equal proportion to that already-exponentially growing amount of resource exploitation, but instead is occurring in greater proportion because of cascading effects touched off by some forms of resource exploitation rendering other resources unavailable.
In this scenario, the situation for modern society would be like two trains on the same track accelerating toward one another. The gap between encroachment into the resource base and the ultimate extent of the base is closing, ever faster, from both sides.
There is a possibility that new, newly applied, or newly synthesized technologies can further expand the human carrying capacity of the global environment, even given the growing demands of lifestyle, but it is unclear if this expansion can keep pace with the growth of resource demands, and whether some potential technologies would positively loop with drawdown of some aspects of the resource base.
There are many unknowns, but considering that enlargement of the scope of commerce and modern industry has already reached the global level, the consequences, if the answer to this question is that we are near the limit, would be dire, i.e. collapse of the global economic system (in this case unsustainable) and die off in many populations.
Despite the unknowns, the stakes are now large enough to merit serious concern.
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» The Original Meaning of Liberal meant favoring a free market economy and democratic rule!!
Posted by: yellow
» Take the best, leave the rest...
Posted by: SteveB
» Would you like some less-connotational definitions, then?
Posted by: Aureantes
» Sure, you've got a point...
Posted by: SteveB
» RE: Sure, you've got a point...
Posted by: acers
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Posted by: cognitorex on Jul 5, 2007 3:52 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Do you get richer when oil prices go up and trade deals are signed making it easier for foreigners to take American jobs? No? Then you haven't got a dog in the hunt. You're a worker."
"When the Republican Party comes after your social security checks and your Mom's Medicare benefits, trust me, you're in that hunt, only it looks like you're the hunted not the hunter."
Craig Johnson
cognitorex blogspot
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» Nicely put, but . . .
Posted by: EKSwitaj
» "We just might bite back"... now thats true, Diana Feinstein was literally shaking when she
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Corporate Greed: You Ain’t Got a Dog in the Hunt
Posted by: trappedintwilightzone
» RE: Corporate Greed: You Ain’t Got a Dog in the Hunt
Posted by: LeftCoastProgressive
» RE: Corporate Greed: You Ain’t Got a Dog in the Hunt
Posted by: leafsong1
» There is one thing their money can't control...... broad, deep massive civil disobedience.
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: There is one thing their money can't control...... broad, deep massive civil disobedience.
Posted by: Tom Tele
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Posted by: UnEasyOne on Jul 5, 2007 4:03 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There are far too many examples of this for a slow typist like myself to cover here; I'll provide one.
The largest electricity provider in the state of Texas (TXU) announced that it was going to build 11 new coal-fired electrical generating plants. No way that was ever going to happen - even in Texas. Still, political logrolling to build began; so did the pushback. Suddenly a big LBO firm rides to the rescue with an offer to buy TXU and shortly thereafter announces a deal with some "environmentalists" to forgo construction of 8 of the plants.
Friedman then wrote a glowing column about this huge environmental "victory," praising the sharks and their "hybrid limousines."
Not mentioned of course, were a host of inconvenient facts: the agreement would not be legally binding, it would not in any way constrain future owners and no commitment was made not to do what LBO firms actually do - break the firm into it's constituent parts and sell them; the new owners still planned to build three new coal fired plants! Cynics (like myself) were heard to mutter that eight of the plants were throwaways - intended to make us feel better about three new massive polluters that would not be approved anywhere else in the country.
Every tome I hear Thomas Friedman and "liberal" mentioned in the same sentence, I cringe.
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» RE: With "Liberals" like Friedman, who needs neocons?
Posted by: willymack
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Posted by: Perfectclue on Jul 5, 2007 4:17 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
These are the class elites, with their class ideology, and criminal policies that justifies illegal aggressions, corporate fascism, and does not even notice the wholesale corruption of its own middle layers, what Olbermann said in on of his hard hitting commentaries on MSNBC. Keith correctly lableled them, a failed political class, and appeasing corrupt class of Neville Chamberlains, which includes both class parties, class ideologies: the democrtatic and repuglican class thugs have "streamlined this process", who betray the public on the issue of Iraq.
Actually, the betrayal, and class corruption, began as early as the collapse of the democratic revolutions, of the French Revolution, British, and American versions, when they institutionalized property rights over human rights, through their class laws, which served the emerging commercial, industrial oligarchy. This reproduced the class mechanism, that occurs between a corrupt middle class and oligarchy, and also established the class nationalism and Empire. Thus, Napoleon marched into Euorpe and Russia for the first capitalist Empire.
The ancent Greeks already understood the degenerative class processs on civil societies, that applies beyond the 300 years of Late Capitalism, and corporate fascism, and applies to the 3000 years of patriarchical class rule. The ongoing cycles of class republics, class democracy, morph into oligarchy, pluotcracy, tyrants, dictators, and Empire because this class mechanism operates on an international, and long historical road, a class mechanism, that rots out all national revolutions which have yet to transform, negate this global class system. These rotten class relations are the very ones that Thomas Friedman counts on to subordinate and cripple democracy and social growth, in the service of the oligarchy and American Empire, and therefore he has to make this very false claim, that all class ideologist, and class societies argue, already exists, and must be extended to global corporate, fascist, imperial policies.
Karl Marx, revolutionary liberals, as opposed to this and all rotten class liberals, would argue that all democratic, socialist movements have still yet to be proven wrong, because they have not removed this historical, global, patricarchical class lever, and the only way to construct a social and democratic principle, is to reconstruct a fully developed middle class, uncrippled, uncorrupted middle class, subordinated by class masters, and oligarchy. The negation of all class hieararchies, class ideologies, and class elites, not only on a national level, but on an international level, would finally displace this long term historical class lever, of 3000 yearts, the patriarchical class mechanism, that operates on a global level, for a universal mechanism on an international level. Thomas Friedman then truly would be "turned up side down", and the laughing butt of jokes, if he already isn't.
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» RE: A servile class ideologue lies and deforms reality for oligarchy
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: A servile class ideologue lies and deforms reality for oligarchy
Posted by: Perfectclue
» Whoa, Karl Marx?
Posted by: LeftCoastProgressive
» RE: Whoa, Karl Marx? and Whoa Major General Smedley Butler, who agrees with Marx.
Posted by: Perfectclue
» Whoa, dude, Karl Marx whoaaa...
Posted by: Coleman
» Are you saying,
Posted by: famouspipeliner
» RE: Are you saying, that famouspipeliner is superficial??
Posted by: Perfectclue
» RE: Are you saying, that famouspipeliner is superficial??
Posted by: famouspipeliner
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Posted by: Urstrly on Jul 5, 2007 4:27 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Friedman's Popularity
Posted by: hms2004
» Friedman
Posted by: CatDad
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Posted by: karma_ran_over_dogma on Jul 5, 2007 5:02 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
(quibble: Voltaire couldn't keep up with the zeitgeist of the French revolution, having died several years earlier.)
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» RE: Tom F. & McDonald's -- see Norman Angell
Posted by: hms2004
» Uh oh. What's our largest trading partner?
Posted by: karma_ran_over_dogma
» Interesting..talk about 'coincidence'!!!
Posted by: ekipnrut
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Posted by: Jabby on Jul 5, 2007 5:11 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Let's face it: Unless progressives and liberals can be allies, fascism wins.
(Sheesh, even in Canada, progressives (NDP & Greens) can't scrounge up a third of the vote on their own.)
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» Please see comment above - author's usage is correct...
Posted by: SteveB
» RE: Please see comment above - author's usage is correct...
Posted by: kelt65
» RE: Please see comment above - author's usage is correct...
Posted by: LeftCoastProgressive
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Posted by: seamus on Jul 5, 2007 6:26 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Friedman's a Liberal????????????
Posted by: seamus
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Posted by: willymack on Jul 5, 2007 6:48 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: KeepsonTickn on Jul 5, 2007 6:50 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have to shake my head when I see people fighting over ANWR. That oil will be drilled. If liberals have their way, it will be worth $500 a barrel when it is drilled. If conservatives have their way, it will be worth $50. When the oil is gone we will build hundreds of nuclear plants and burn the most sulphurous coal to keep it all going.
Not long after we run out of fuel, we will see the world's ecosystems, already drastically weakened by the sudden heating we caused, struck again by sudden cooling as the greenhouse gases dissipate (unfortunately though, the changes will not be sudden enough - there are a lot of systems, such as coral and many rainforests, that simply cannot survive hundred plus year cycles on this scale.)
Somehow, during this next few generations, human population will drop precipitously from the nine billion projected for 2050 to something less than the historically sustainable billion or so. This will happen, whether through humane, planned changes or through wars, famine and disease.
How can anyone not see this coming?
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» RE: Will we complete the globalization model before it grinds to a halt?
Posted by: ChrisSmith0077
» This year we will use up oil that took over 11 million years to form. Think about that.
Posted by: KeepsonTickn
» RE:What you say is a partial WS partys solution
Posted by: SJ
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Ydotheyhateus on Jul 5, 2007 7:31 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The US Commerce Department spent $335,000 in 2003-04 on what was considered a comprehensive study on the impact of high-tech job loss in the US. Required to release the 360-page report in July 2004, the Bush administration stalled. Instead, in September 2005, it produced a tepid 12-page summary that championed job loss as a gain for the US economy. A fight in Congress eventually brought this document into the public domain although newspapers have failed to give it the attention it deserves.
The study shows that the attrition of jobs in the high-tech sector is quite serious for those who live within the US. Between 2000 and 2003, the number of engineers employed in the US dropped by 4,000, while those hired by US semiconductor firms offshore increased by 10,000. "As leading companies locate in or contract with labour in other countries," the report argues, "concerns about the shift of work include fears that higher value work may shift from the United States to other locations, impacting US industrial strength and high-salary employment... . Offshoring of design work can also impose downward pressure on US wages and reduce the demand for US design engineers. As the number of overseas design centres increases, it may draw foreign talent from the United States."
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» RE: While Americans watch American idol and quarrel over
Posted by: Bozly
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Posted by: shangrilalad on Jul 5, 2007 7:46 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
.
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Posted by: lambchops on Jul 5, 2007 7:46 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Thank you for writing about Friedman's book because that one I will not be reading.
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Posted by: Elfits on Jul 5, 2007 8:10 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Friedman
Posted by: Bozly
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Posted by: kelt65 on Jul 5, 2007 8:19 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As for whether he is 'liberal': he most certainly is. He is a classic liberal; liberals have always been capitalists. It is only the post civil rights era that liberals have been viewed as progressive in any way.
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» "liberals have always been capitalists"
Posted by: LeftCoastProgressive
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Posted by: osisbs on Jul 5, 2007 8:37 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Maybe there are such things as "good" and "bad" capitalism, but I'm not seeing them.
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» RE: vidence of Industry Eating Its Own
Posted by: DCBeltway
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Posted by: Ghoulman on Jul 5, 2007 8:53 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Francis on Jul 5, 2007 9:08 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Thomas Friedman and his wife as "Zionist operatives and assets"? Sounds like Tom Clancy on Acid!!
Posted by: yellow
» Fiddler Under the Bed
Posted by: edith
» RE: Francis
Posted by: mobilone
» Edith are you paid to annoy people with your cracker comments about Jews controlling the US media?
Posted by: yellow
» Denial doesn't change the "truth"..... its there and in your face..... more and more .......
Posted by: Prophit
» Murdoch alone has 30% penetration...
Posted by: justaguy
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Posted by: fanny666 on Jul 5, 2007 9:23 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Critique of Thomas Friedman
The second one is very long, but worth reading.
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Posted by: eddie torres on Jul 5, 2007 9:44 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Right War, Wrong Tactics; Hussein in the Membrane; How the Media Lies About China; and Flathead by Matt Taibbi
Flattening the Great Education Myth; Billionaire Scion Tom Friedman; and Tom Friedman's Hatred of Workers by David Sirota
Tom Friedman: apologist for the faux enviros by James Howard Kunstler
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Posted by: vssmith on Jul 5, 2007 10:09 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Sam
Posted by: DCBeltway
» In fact an article/commentary is finally coming out about that fact.
Posted by: Prophit
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Posted by: HughScott on Jul 5, 2007 10:12 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: litist lapdog for the rich and powerful.
Posted by: LeftCoastProgressive
» "LeftCoastProgressive": another rightwing troll. You aren't fooling anyone, stealth Bushie.
Posted by: HughScott
» RE: litist lapdog for the rich and powerful.
Posted by: Bozly
» Raising the price on a monopoly service is indeed unjust.
Posted by: edith
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Posted by: allyourbasearebelongtous on Jul 5, 2007 10:23 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: another circular firing squad
Posted by: LeftCoastProgressive
» RE: another circular firing squad
Posted by: allyourbasearebelongtous
» Aaah, LCP, why don't you tell us what you really think??? LOL How refreshing..... LOL
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Aaah, LCP, why don't you tell us what you really think??? LOL How refreshing..... LOL
Posted by: allyourbasearebelongtous
» Oh, lighten up.... not everything has to have doom and gloom on it.
Posted by: Prophit
» Where's the Liberal?
Posted by: edith
» RE: Where's the Liberal?
Posted by: allyourbasearebelongtous
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Posted by: ceti on Jul 5, 2007 10:51 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: gracefounddog on Jul 5, 2007 10:59 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think it's important to distinguish a "new green" from a traditional American "liberal." Just as we must distinguish a neocon from a traditional conservative. To fail to recognize the difference is to be uninformed, which isn't hard to do since our media is sold out and covering up the truth. Failing to make the distinction means we're uniformed. We are in a CRISIS as a nation and the last thing we need is our attachment to partisan sides!! This is COUP. Please inform yourselves! Hilary and Obama are neogreens, as well as Gore. We are in huge trouble if we elect yet another NEO. These people are wolves in sheeps clothing.
Friedman the Fraudulent
Must Read:CHILLING!!
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» RE: Neocons and New Greens are Agents of the Military Industrial Complex
Posted by: 2Truthy
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Posted by: Beached Whale on Jul 5, 2007 11:46 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Roverton on Jul 5, 2007 12:10 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: THE NEO'S HAVE TAKEN EVERYTHING ELSE
Posted by: babs
» RE: THE NEO'S HAVE TAKEN EVERYTHING ELSE
Posted by: Roverton
» RE: THE NEO'S HAVE TAKEN EVERYTHING ELSE
Posted by: bob t
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Posted by: amilius on Jul 5, 2007 12:54 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
'Benevolence' is that which might be shared with all.
'Advantage', by definiton, is that which cannot be shared with all. Confusing these things serves the ungracious purposes of hypocrites like Mr. Friedman.
He's no liberal.
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» Hear, hear -- too many people here have lost their etymologies through economics courses
Posted by: Aureantes
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Posted by: 2Truthy on Jul 5, 2007 2:00 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Excellent article and a long overdue book on the liberal elite agenda to eradicate our middle class. I have always considered that blowhard (Friedman) to be conservative, and yet the liberal label you give him makes sense in context at least one way, which is in the company he keeps. Friedman has managed to become the PR tool for many Silicon Valley tech and financial elites who are currently involved in stelath GREEN tech deals which involve a complicit Democratic Congress and other possible election candidates with green interests. In what has been said to be the 'final push' to the trough before the Chinese call in the debt, these wealthy tech and financial elites have banded together to cash out before the economic collapse that will solidify the trench between the wealthy and the feudal society that Friedman's posse has architected to rid this nation of its middle class through selling off our jobs to the third world.
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Posted by: rcunice on Jul 5, 2007 2:12 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: IguessI'mnotsoliberal
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: IguessI'mnotsoliberal
Posted by: DCBeltway
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Posted by: Hal on Jul 5, 2007 3:52 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This “capitalist revolution” line is emotional garbage that falsely frames the entire debate. Marshall thus betrays a steep ignorance of economics and strategic geo-politics throughout. And the democratization of global business is pure red herring.
Neocon Friedman is as “liberal” as Bush-Cheney is “conservative” (that is to say not at all). T. Friedman and countless others of a faux leftwing MSM establishment are no better than sellout carnies working for a de facto CORPORATE CRIME MONOPOLY STATE that makes an Orwellian mockery of capitalism and democracy.
“He [Thomas Friedman] believed the overthrow of Saddam Hussein represented the very best aspects of American liberalism.”
Really? Au contraire.
Let’s say “American liberalism” is what T. Friedman, William Kristol, David Brooks, Richard Pearl, Hillary Clinton, Joe Lieberman, and ad nauseum would like suckers and patsies to believe it is.
Anyone with a ghost of a clue knew a 911 cover-up and its equally bogus “war on terror” was a blood money global farce. In Iraq “war on terror” was built up as a key puppet garrison state for a CORPORATE CRIME MONOPOLY STATE in charge of DC, London and Tel Aviv.
This has always been about a Eurasian/Mid East plan to dominate Big Oil resources thru cartel fiat banking with Israel as strategic backup. Anyone who buys into other core motives has swallowed the psyop and systemic Kool-Aid.
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» RE: SORRY –> MERCURY INSURANCE
Posted by: apophenia_monkey
» RE: SORRY –> DC-MSM KOOL-AID
Posted by: Hal
» RE: SORRY –> DC-MSM KOOL-AID
Posted by: apophenia_monkey
» RE: You're Projecting Again, Monkey -- Take a Little Trip...
Posted by: apophenia_monkey
» RE: Now whose...
Posted by: apophenia_monkey
» Monkey Project, Monkey Do…
Posted by: Hal
» RE: SORRY –> the WORLD is RIGGED by CORPORATE MONOPOLY (FASCISM)
Posted by: EncinoM
» Speak for Yourself, Sleepy (Tin Foil Becomes You)...nm
Posted by: Hal
» h=i a=b l=m
Posted by: apophenia_monkey
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Posted by: medstudgeek on Jul 5, 2007 4:17 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
He's calling Friedman a capitalist pig, not a fellow-traveler with Howard Dean, Barack Obama, and Dennis Kucinich.
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» RE: 'Liberal' here = capitalist!
Posted by: KeepsonTickn
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Posted by: medstudgeek on Jul 5, 2007 4:22 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Ian MacLeod on Jul 5, 2007 4:43 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Last I heard, Liberals were for controlling Big Business so that it didn't mindlessly destroy the economy, the environment and the very societies in which they exist. Liberals have always stood for helping the poor and others who have been devastated by circimstance, for feeding the hungry, vaccinating children - everything the neocons want to get rid of. Conservatives have always wanted segregation between "races" (there's only one race on the planet: human), socio-economic strata and every other possible division they could find. They are elitists to the core, pretending (though their sincerity is even more frightening) to be doing all this "for your own good", apparently certain that getting out of the corporate road will force healthy competition instead of corporate predation on each other and on us until there's just one big Super-Megacorp remaining to represent business and government: fascism. That's the direction unfettered business always takes, has always taken, and always will.
So when did all that come to represent Liberalism? It makes no sense whatsoever. Suddenly Liberals are being accused of doing everything they've always been against, everything the so-called conservatives actually are doing. The neocons have done all they could to make liberalism a dirty word precisely because liberals demand that business be regulated so it doesn't kill people in it's unending search for MORE PROFITS, and INFINITE EXPANSION - in a finite system. Liberals want people educated, fed, treated when they're ill, and real competition between busineses to the improvement of quality for all instead of the enrichment of a literal handful and the impoverishment of everyone else.
This article seems to be buying into the necon's foundation lie: that bad business practice is the fault of a Liberal conspiracy that never existed; this while they themselves throw out all rules that don't lead to greater profits for cronies and themselves not matter the cost to everyone else. I feel like I've stepped into a weird looking-glass world where everything is inverted. I don't get it.
Ian
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» RE: So just when did "Liberal" get redefined, and by whom?
Posted by: SWMarshall
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Posted by: BewareTheZiocons on Jul 5, 2007 5:09 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
White man's burden by Ari Shavit
In the course of the past year, a new belief has emerged in the town: the belief in war against Iraq. That ardent faith was disseminated by a small group of 25 or 30 neoconservatives, almost all of them Jewish, almost all of them intellectuals (a partial list: Richard Perle, Paul Wolfowitz, Douglas Feith, William Kristol, Eliot Abrams, Charles Krauthammer), people who are mutual friends and cultivate one another and are convinced that political ideas are a major driving force of history. They believe that the right political idea entails a fusion of morality and force, human rights and grit. The philosophical underpinnings of the Washington neoconservatives are the writings of Machiavelli, Hobbes and Edmund Burke. They also admire Winston Churchill and the policy pursued by Ronald Reagan. They tend to read reality in terms of the failure of the 1930s (Munich) versus the success of the 1980s (the fall of the Berlin Wall).
[snip]
Is this an American Lebanon War? Tom Friedman says he is afraid it is. He was there, in the Commodore Hotel in Beirut, in the summer of 1982, and he remembers it well. So he sees the lines of resemblance clearly. General Ahmed Chalabi (the Shi'ite leader that the neoconservatives want to install as the leader of a free Iraq) in the role of Bashir Jemayel. The Iraqi opposition in the role of the Phalange. Richard Perle and the conservative circle around him as Ariel Sharon. And a war that is at bottom a war of choice. A war that wants to utilize massive force in order to establish a new order.
Tom Friedman, The New York Times columnist, did not oppose the war. On the contrary. He too was severely shaken by September 11, he too wants to understand where these desperate fanatics are coming from who hate America more than they love their own lives. And he too reached the conclusion that the status quo in the Middle East is no longer acceptable. The status quo is terminal. And therefore it is urgent to foment a reform in the Arab world.
[snip]
Is the Iraq war the great neoconservative war? It's the war the neoconservatives wanted, Friedman says. It's the war the neoconservatives marketed. Those people had an idea to sell when September 11 came, and they sold it. Oh boy, did they sell it. So this is not a war that the masses demanded. This is a war of an elite. Friedman laughs: I could give you the names of 25 people (all of whom are at this moment within a five-block radius of this office) who, if you had exiled them to a desert island a year and a half ago, the Iraq war would not have happened.
The Israel Lobby
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N294FMDok98
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNQv5YSg_YA
Neocons advocate war with Iraq in the weeks after 9/11
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLv69k3G2Qg
Toxic Talk on War
http://www.washingtonpost.com
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugesi_gaqLU
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» RE: Lebanon and Iraq hand picked leaders PUPPETS Iraq war Try reading Bin laudins statement
Posted by: SJ
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Posted by: SWMarshall on Jul 5, 2007 6:24 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I had forgotten how engaged this community was... the responses to this excerpt could keep me writing for months. It's true, the words "liberal" and "conservative" mean so little these days. Especially in the US, where proponents of domestic "liberal" values can be villified by conservatives who simultaneously share their belief in "free trade" and "globalization," as well as the way that America exerts itself economically through financial instruments like the WTO and World Bank.
This is just an excerpt of course. And I spend the first part of the book being very clear about just what I mean by the word liberal: its etymological roots, philosophical underpinnings and where the neo-cons (who were, as some of you have pointed out, all liberals before they got "mugged by reality") went astray. I also go into depth (through an illuminating interview with former Economic Hit Man John Perkins) about the lie of "free trade."
But I thought this bit from the end of the first chapter might add a useful dimension to this discussion of American liberalism as it's viewed from abroad. I have cornered Christopher Hitchens in the Green Room at the Hay Festival who admits that as a lifelong socialist, he has now embraced capitalism. [it's too long to post here so will do it in a next one, you can find other excerpts on the book site]
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» RE: Marshall since you are writing to americans get your terms straight...
Posted by: SWMarshall
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Posted by: SWMarshall on Jul 5, 2007 6:33 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
“From this viewpoint, Mr. Stevenson’s face, with its shiftily earnest advocate’s expression, is the ingratiating moral mask which a toughly acquisitive society wears before the world it robs: ‘liberalism’ is the ideology of the rich, the elevation into universal values of the codes which favoured the emergence, and favour the continuance, of the capitalist society.”
It was an indictment that resonated with Hitchens, then a budding eighteen year-old socialist.
“Actually, if you read that essay,” he explains, “it was exactly what I felt for us on the left in Britain: the word liberal was a very rude thing to call somebody. Liberalism was an attempt to drape capitalism with some kind of pious social conscience… It used to be preceded almost always with the term ‘wishy-washy.’”
Hitchens takes a long drag on his cigarette, adding, “In America now, liberal is the word that the right uses to defame secularism, welfarism, anti-militarism and so on. I think because it’s no longer plausible to attack communism. There used to be two ways of attacking liberalism. One was to say ‘limousine liberal’ – it’s very much what one would call myself – and the other was as ‘soft on’ communism.”
“I think the verdict of history is in," he sighs, "one may feel a little wistful about it, but wistfulness is no good as a dialectical method. At all. So, in fact, capitalism is reasserting itself as the only revolution. And it takes a Marxist to see it, sometimes.”
“Asserting itself as what kind of revolution?” I ask.
“As the only dynamic revolutionary force in the world, reasserting itself after having gone through terrible decay; after all capitalism led to imperialism, to fascism, to war. Led to the great crisis in the 20s and 30s. It’s true, don’t let’s forget. And not just morally true, it’s politically true. It looked as if it were dead-ended. It really did. And to most of its supporters it did too. And that’s why they went Keynesian. They thought, we can only save it this way. You had to buy [the workers] off. That’s what’s happened since: you’ve got to give these guys a health service, protection of work, and this and that. And also give them some money so they can go on buying things."
“It will never get to the point of stasis, it will keep on consuming itself... Joseph Schumpeter called it creative destruction: capitalism needs to go on devouring things and making things unstable and dangerous in order to keep on existing. Finding shorter and more scientific routes to production, productivity, demand, efficiency, discarding waste or competition, creating and then breaking up monopolies. It creates a destructive force. But anyone can recognize it as a revolution. It’s the only revolution in town.”
He says it with a kind of swagger that almost feels triumphant and then declares the inevitable: “But now we think it’s very unlikely that its workers will become its managers. That doesn’t seem as if that’s ever going to happen. They can become its beneficiaries.”
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Posted by: SWMarshall on Jul 5, 2007 6:34 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[...]
In his essay that so inspired the young socialist Hitchens, Connor Cruise O’Brien chronicles a conversation between himself and Kwame Nkrumah, the pan-Africanist leader who became the first Prime Minister of Ghana. Nkrumah was then involved in trying to make Ghana into a socialist society. Of this effort, O’Brien writes, he believed “this government had been right to reject the façade of liberalism,” and that he saw in it a “greater sense of responsibility to the people — not in a formal sense but in a profound one — than [in] neighboring states with more apparently liberal constitutions.”
When Nkrumah asked O’Brien, who was there to work with the government, if he was a socialist, the Irishman replied that he was, understanding that to be a liberal in Africa was a to be a “false friend.” But driving home after the interview, Connor explains, he realized that a liberal was in fact what he was.
“Whatever I might argue, I was more profoundly attached to liberal concepts of freedom… than I was to the idea of a disciplined party mobilizing all the forces of society for the creation of a social order guaranteeing more real freedom for all instead of just for a few.”
I wonder if Hitchens is aware just how much he echoes the reluctant admission of his literary polestar in his own acquiescence to the fatality of the socialist ideal. As one of the highest paid writers in the United States, what else can he do but accept his own latent capitalism?
“It means we’ve conceded,” he says, “that capitalism has embarked on another revolution. It’s not only survived the battle with socialism but it’s replenishing and extending and strengthening itself, without a viable or plausible alternative.”
With the daylight now flirting with the crimson hues of sunset, Hitchens rises from his chair. Bidding me goodbye, he wishes me luck in discovering my own path, away from the Left he now sees as reactionary defenders of the status quo.
“There’s no longer any Left and I can’t be any part of it. It took a lot for me to get to the realization that it was,” he pauses for effect, “conservative. I wasted so much time… you could save yourself the trouble. You’ll feel better.”
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» Beneficiaries
Posted by: Coleman
» RE: the Hitchens excerpt (2)
Posted by: Ian MacLeod
» RE: the Hitchens excerpt (2)
Posted by: SWMarshall
» ECHO CHAMBER @ AMERIKA CORP
Posted by: Hal
Comments are closed-
Posted by: vzn on Jul 5, 2007 7:15 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
the underlying money system itself is broken at best, corrupt at worst.
probably intentionally so. "thats not a bug, its a feature"
consider a free electronic paper I wrote called
fractional reserve banking as economic parasitism
endorsed by two phd economists. printed in nexus
magazine, 60k world circulation. #1 top downloaded
economics paper. used by economics
teacher in australia as standard classroom material.
more info on request.
recent supporting material:
- confessions of an economic hit man by Perkins
- money as debt video by Grignon
- Congressman pres candidate Dennis Kucinich
at last years
2005 Monetary Reform Conference
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» More uneducated John Birch Cracker Society Bullshit. Grow up and actually learn how the fed works.
Posted by: yellow
» Its M3, you idiot that counts when dealing with inflation and the Fed just quit publishing it! Why?
Posted by: Prophit
Comments are closed-
Posted by: opeluboy on Jul 5, 2007 7:23 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And of course Friedman, an ardent Zionist who plays at viewing Israel/Palestine objectively (while carefully slanting all he writes entirely pro-Israel) is for any war that eliminates hundreds of thousands of Israel's enemies, real or imagined, born or yet unborn, crawling or walking, armed or unarmed, male or female, old or young.
And it is of course this Israel-first supremacism that allows Friedman, along with Emerson, Miller, Schwartz, Ledeen, Pollack, Lewis, Krauthammer, Saphire, Gold and all the other Zionists who infest our media, to pontificate on the Middle East, terrorism, Arabs and Islam as if they were truly experts, and not simply propagandists and apologists for one of the more disgusting regimes of our time. Their presence and status proves, if one needed it, that our media is truly controlled by their ilk, and that it is not just a case of "overrepresentation." Were this not the case, the media might allow some of these "experts" to actually by residents of the Middle East, Arabs or Muslims. They don't (unless they're total Quislings).
I am sure I will be called an anti-Semite (again) and other names by the regular Zionazis who daily scan this site for any anything unfavorable to their one true cause and only country that holds their loyalty. And as usual, they will offer no arguments or refutation, just insults. I am also sure someone will argue that Friedman has made certain noises that sound like actual support for Palestinian freedom.
It will be,of course, utter bullshit.
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» My Zionist Paycheck
Posted by: apophenia_monkey
» RE: My Zionist Paycheck
Posted by: opeluboy
» RE: My Zionist Paycheck
Posted by: apophenia_monkey
Comments are closed-
Posted by: ekipnrut on Jul 5, 2007 7:37 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[following is my comment to an August 2006 Alternet article]:
Why Does Tom Friedman Still Have a Job?
By Robert Parry, Consortium News. Posted August 21, 2006.
Smiling Face
Posted by: ekipnrut on Aug 24, 2006 12:48 AM
.....The threshold question regarding Mr. Friedman is simply
why should his opinions,analyses or pontifications be given
any elevated status whatsoever to begin with ?
He has no particularly noteworthy academic or intellectual
qualifications.....a chickenhawk....married into big bucks...
...an arrogant pampered self serving asswipe who,with the
stroke of his pundit's pen, is willing to rationalize horrors for
'foreigners' of color that he couldn't begin to fathom for his
family.
Think back and over the last twenty years or so: name one
epiphany,even a cogent prescient observation on world
affairs, published by this man. Zip,nada,nothing.
A pimp and a lackey for war criminals and the architects
of the intended New World Order
Who cares WTF he predictably 'thinks'.
BTW: (from the August 2006 Parry article ref above): Under principles of international law applied from Nuremberg to Rwanda, propagandists who contribute to war crimes or encourage crimes against humanity can be put in the dock alongside the actual killers.
Though such a fate may not await America's pro-war pundits, Friedman and other commentators who helped ease the way to Bush's unprovoked invasion of Iraq, and thus contributed to the ongoing slaughters in the Middle East, might at least have the decency to admit their incompetence and resign.
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Posted by: SteveB on Jul 5, 2007 9:31 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And what's the response to this provocative idea? Whiny complaints that he's misused the word "liberal", even though his usage is, in fact, the way the word is used everywhere in the world except the U.S.
What can we learn from this? 1) Some folks care more about labels than actual people and 2) Americans apparently have a right to define words to mean anything they want, even if billions of people living outside the U.S. disagree.
To outraged American liberals, I say this: this article isn't about you. It's about the survival of most of this planet's population. Try to get over yourselves, and see if you have anything useful to say about that.
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» What "specifics" am I missing?
Posted by: SteveB
» Better Question: What "specifics" are you NOT missing?
Posted by: Hal
» RE: What a shame...
Posted by: Ian MacLeod
» RE: What a shame...
Posted by: bob t
Comments are closed-
Posted by: allyourbasearebelongtous on Jul 5, 2007 10:35 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Maybe with the next election, some things could start to move in a better direction but if we have eight more years like this, things will begin to be even more obviously falling apart than they are now.
On another level, its not about capitalism and socialism. Its about routinized relationships of power, domination and privilege in any society. What goes on in societies now is not substantially different from the biggest strongest alpha male running the tribe 100,000 years ago and getting the best food and the best shelter for himself, his mate and his offspring. We really haven't gotten much beyond that even though our technology has changed considerably.
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» RE: global corporate economy stranglehold
Posted by: richholland
» RE: global corporate economy stranglehold
Posted by: allyourbasearebelongtous
» RE: Yes there are...
Posted by: bob t
» RE: global corporate economy stranglehold
Posted by: Ian MacLeod
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Swedish liberal on Jul 6, 2007 5:02 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In the US liberal seems to equate socialist and Green even revolutionary socialists and communists. They are relativists that accept human rights violations in third world countries because of culture differences. In Sweden it would never be the case.
A liberal in the US is per definition against globalisation and market economy. Globalisation is neither good nor bad, it is like the weather, and it exists whether you like it or not. Market economy is so far the only economic system that is viable and the only system that creates welfare for all. Socialism and communism has failed on a grand scale. (Europe and Sweden are not socialist; they are fully grown market economies. The difference is higher taxes and more income distribution. Otherwise the there is very little difference between the US or Europe.)
To be a liberal is not being a socialist or Green it is in fact just the opposite.
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» RE: Dear Swedish Liberal... part one
Posted by: bob t
» RE: Mr. Swedish Liberal, part two
Posted by: bob t
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Posted by: Tomasdelsol on Jul 6, 2007 7:57 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
PS Did Gore read the "Greening of America"?
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Posted by: Just Curious on Jul 7, 2007 6:40 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Remember the immortal words of Humpty Dumpty:
"Words mean exactly what I want them to mean; nothing more and nothing less"
In the hands of both Americans and, increasingly Europeans, it's simply another version of Conservative (i.e. right wing). A kinder, more caring form of conservatism, perhaps, but conservatism nonetheless.
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Posted by: rogeralexander on Jul 8, 2007 1:05 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: carl baydala on Jul 8, 2007 8:15 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I did not believe his rhetoric then and I would not believe it now if I heard it again. I will rely on the author's description and criticism of Friedman's book which he read, and one which I will most likely never read. I don't really know why and when most people either become full-fledged proponents of the capitalist system, or like myself, maintain a tendency to identify its faults and point out its more negative features.
Capitalism currently has many faults as any intelligent human being can easily assess. The war in Iraq has much more to do with personal gain than with the implementation of democracy and saving a people from a dictator. We know why the U.S. invaded the country and it was not because some terrorists attacked New York City on a bright sunny day. I thought most people knew that by now and would question the use of terrorism as the reason for the invasion of Iraq and the liberation of the whole Middle East. I was just wondering why in the article the author skates over this issue whithout really questioning the reason for war as supplied by the elites.
His failure to do so made me question his motives for writing this very good article. As the author points out, that is where we are in the world right now; there are the believers and apologists for globalization like Friedman and there are others like myself who see that capitalism has a dark side as well. War is not the only negative to capitalism and imperialism, it is that slow and steady march to slavery and financial enslavement that concerns me the most. ( I am thinking primarlily here of the separation of the classes in the U.S and of the accumulation of debt by the nation and the people as consumers )
The people who control the economic and financial levers in the world have a great deal of influence on how I feel and think.
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Vancouver's Games Will Be the Gayest Olympics Ever
Trial Begins for Activist Who Fought to Protect Federal Lands from Drilling -- Join the Protest
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