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Sorry, Thomas Friedman, the World Is Round

By Stephen Marshall, The Disinformation Company. Posted July 5, 2007.


In an excerpt from the new book, Wolves in Sheep's Clothing, Stephen Marshall takes on liberals like Friedman, who would have you believe that our capitalist system is inherently just and self-regulating when, in reality, it is anything but.
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The following is an excerpt from Stephen Marshall's new book, Wolves in Sheep's Clothing: The New Liberal Menace in America.

Now every true revolution has a scribe, someone who is able to channel the zeitgeist into a passionate, living chronicle that fuels the insurgency and propels it to its ultimate historical destiny. The French Revolution had Voltaire, the American had Thomas Paine. For the new capitalist revolution, there is New York Times columnist Thomas Friedman. I know this because as I walk through the business class cabin of my United Airlines flight, passing all the young legionnaires of the jet-set globalist contingent, I count four copies of his bestselling book, The World Is Flat, and that's just in the first three rows. Seeing the books reminds me that Friedman was the only major figure to refuse my interview request. It's a drag, because there is probably no other liberal who fits the description of a wolf in sheep's clothing than America's preeminent globalization advocate.

Friedman was one of the first A-list liberals to peddle the idea that Iraqis would treat American soldiers as liberators. He believed the overthrow of Saddam Hussein represented the very best aspects of American liberalism. Six months after the invasion -- the same week I was interviewing Sgt. Hollis in Samarra -- Friedman declared, "This is the most radical-liberal revolutionary war the U.S. has ever launched -- a war of choice to install some democracy in the heart of the Arab-Muslim world." Like so many of his other liberal peers, Friedman denied there was economic dimension to the conflict. This war was different from past wars that their generation had protested. "U.S. power is not being used in Iraq for oil, or imperialism, or to shore up a corrupt status quo, as it was in Vietnam and elsewhere in the Arab world during the cold war," wrote Friedman in his column.

And yet, as many Iraqis told me during my time in-country, the imposition of democracy from a foreign power seemed to contradict the very essence of political freedom. Especially when the Americans were doing everything in their power to control the new system. Overwhelmingly, Iraqis seemed to believe that the creation of an authentic democratic structure would mean adoption of Islamic (sharia) law, which a great majority of them want. But for American liberals like Thomas Friedman, sharia represents a major failure; it would mean having spent billions to liberate a society only to see it retreat from the secular freedoms imposed by its former dictator.

To protect itself from this outcome, the United States stacked the newly liberated nation's political deck with as many pro-Western Iraqis as possible. But this only strengthened the convictions of many who saw the invasion and its promise of delivering true freedom as a wedge to open Iraq for U.S. corporate and military goals. A few days before leaving Baghdad, I listened to Rana al Aiouby, a young Iraqi translator, argue over tea with Hesham Barbary, an Egyptian businessman who had come to cash in on the new reconstruction contracts.

"So the Americans came here to save the Iraqi people?" al Aiouby asked incredulously.

"Partially," Barbary replied.

"They didn't come here to help the Iraqis. Everyone knows why the American came here ... because their economic system just collapsed. So they have to help themselves, and even if they'll make a disaster for the others, just, they want to survive. That's it."

Voices like Rana al Aiouby's are not present in Thomas Friedman's real-time history of globalization. They can't be. Prowar liberals like Friedman, architects of the new millennial liberal project, cannot afford to second-guess the motives driving America's War on Terror. From the outset, Friedman believed implicitly that Bush's Iraq War plan was a high-stakes gamble based on ideological motives, "the greatest shake of the dice any president has voluntarily engaged in since Harry Truman dropped the bomb on Japan." Others echoed the sentiment -- "This is Texas Poker," as arch-conservative Robert Novak put it -- pushing the idea that Bush had risked billions of dollars and thousands of lives like some Vegas roller. The analogy is instructive. Who bets the house on an abstraction? No one. So we're to believe that Bush and Cheney went for broke to bring democracy to Iraq? That's insanity. This is an administration so mired in cronyism and conflicts of interest that to believe they would take such a huge bet on a political ideal is delusional. And yet that is exactly what the pro-war liberals have done. The question is: why?

In Friedman's case, I believe it is because he implicitly understands that America is facing an insurmountable challenge to its global economic hegemony. His research for The World Is Flat brought him around the world to investigate the new paradigm emerging in transnational business. What he finds is that the old vertical ("command and control") systems are being replaced by horizontal ("connect and collaborate") ones and, in the process, blowing away walls and ceilings that were once integral to the rigid hierarchical structure of global commerce. He first made this discovery in Bangalore, India, where menial data entry and phone operator jobs in the accounting and banking fields are now being performed by English-speaking workers. This has been going on for years but, as Friedman explains, he was too busy covering the War on Terror to notice. It's not until Nandan Nilekani, the CEO of Infosys -- India's equivalent to Microsoft -- tells him "the playing field is being leveled," that Friedman realizes what he has stumbled upon.


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See more stories tagged with: liberals, globalization, thomas friedman, the world is flat

Stephen Marshall is a writer and award-winning filmmaker. A founder of Guerrilla News Network, he is co-author of the book True Lies (Plume) with GNN colleague Anthony Lappé. He is the director of the feature film This Revolution, documentary features such as Battleground: 21 Days on the Empire's Edge, and controversial, politicized music videos for the Beastie Boys, Eminem and 50 Cent. Over the span of his career, he has traveled and worked in more than 80 countries. He lives in New York City. Visit www.wolvesbook.com.

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An inverted Marxist utopianism
Posted by: Lector on Jul 5, 2007 1:06 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And corporate neoliberalism loves Friedman. As a flat-earther, Friedman is skillful with his pen, propagandizing for flatitutude, but there is something flawed about the Friedman vision of free trade. It isn’t free.

Also, he’s a conservative at heart. Friedman happened to be a strong proponent of Operation Iraqi Freedom. He may have bashed Bush but when it mattered most, he supported Bush’s war policy. On September 13, 2003, he told Tim Russert on CNBC that “we need to go into the heart of their (Arab) world and beat their brains out, in order to burst this bubble.”


Friedman has also quoted an IBM scientist who said “We need to think more seriously than ever about how we encourage people to focus on productive outcomes that advance and unite civilization.” That “peaceful imaginations are needed to “minimize alienation and celebrate interdependence rather than self-sufficiency.” So , Marx, who always worried that capitalism-caused alienation, has now gained new disciples to carry out his utopian destinarianism.

Robert Lightfoot

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Hook, Line and Sinker Tommie
Posted by: dancerkc on Jul 5, 2007 1:25 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I never thought of HLS Tommie as a liberal. At the start I thought he had some insights. As Tommie the Tanked began feeding out his "Arab Street" claims he began more and more sounding like someone who didn't know what he was talking about. But I didn't know enough personally to totally throw away his writings.

Then came the flat-world book. I've been in IT for a lot of years. When I first heard summaries praising it I suspected Tom was full of it. Reading through it convinced me he is totally dumb about his subject.

As a worker "in the field" (I'll call it the "geek street") it was apparent to me that he had a talk-to-the-executives-over-golf type of approach. Any non-com or enlisted or any worker knows that executives blow smoke. Generally we feed them "executive" briefings because they are removed from our operations, don't understand our operations in any knowledgeable way and are just there to be "deciders."

And along comes Tom F. who listens to the execs, almost totally, except for a couple of anecdotes to flesh out his tomes. As a result his work is flat stupid, repeating self-serving executive-suite delusions and reality-distortion fields.

What galls me is that this kind of executive-spin message is what gets picked up by the MSM and too many others. They buy into easy answers for easy questions for easy stories to fill easy column inches. Because they don't know any better from ever having worked in the areas they write about.

And so Tommie swallows the thing, hook line and sinker (HSL) and then, in his seemingly endless enthusiasm and spasms of excitement, HLS Tommie writes volumes. If he really understood this stuff his current writings would embarass him.

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It is good to read someone on the Left attacking the word "liberal."
Posted by: zyxwvut on Jul 5, 2007 1:44 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is the American version of Left, although it is Right internationally. Perhaps we are a right-shifted society; our political Right is a step further than the political Right of other societies in the developed world and we lack a correspondent to their Left, except on the tattered fringes.

The primary contradiction of capitalism is its assumption of unlimited growth in a finite world. We are probably not going to branch out into the solar system very much in this century, if ever, so for all intents and purposes the environment from which to draw our collective livelihood is planet Earth. For argument's sake, even if humans do someday develop the infrastructural technology needed to colonize other worlds and enlarge the scope of commerce thusly (extra-globalization), the rate of population doubling in conditions of abundance is exponential and would shortly negate the benefits of a new frontier, leaving us again in a mess of overcrowding.

The most important question in the world today is this: How near is the human population to outstripping its resource base? Not only is global population growing exponentially, but the average ecological "footprint" of individual humans (a function of lifestyle) is as well, further compounding the issue.

To answer that question, we would need to know the dimensions of our resource base, which could involve a positive feedback loop between drawdown of resources and diminishment of the total resource base. That is, as certain resources are depleted, other resources, or the potential to develop them, are unintentionally depleted due to a disturbance propagating in a non-linear ecological system. This effect would result in a dynamic where the direct supply of products is growing exponentially (from exponential ecological footprint expansion on top of exponential population growth) and drawdown of the resource base is not occurring in equal proportion to that already-exponentially growing amount of resource exploitation, but instead is occurring in greater proportion because of cascading effects touched off by some forms of resource exploitation rendering other resources unavailable.

In this scenario, the situation for modern society would be like two trains on the same track accelerating toward one another. The gap between encroachment into the resource base and the ultimate extent of the base is closing, ever faster, from both sides.

There is a possibility that new, newly applied, or newly synthesized technologies can further expand the human carrying capacity of the global environment, even given the growing demands of lifestyle, but it is unclear if this expansion can keep pace with the growth of resource demands, and whether some potential technologies would positively loop with drawdown of some aspects of the resource base.

There are many unknowns, but considering that enlargement of the scope of commerce and modern industry has already reached the global level, the consequences, if the answer to this question is that we are near the limit, would be dire, i.e. collapse of the global economic system (in this case unsustainable) and die off in many populations.

Despite the unknowns, the stakes are now large enough to merit serious concern.

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» Sure, you've got a point... Posted by: SteveB
Corporate Greed: You Ain’t Got a Dog in the Hunt
Posted by: cognitorex on Jul 5, 2007 3:52 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Have you got a million dollars in the bank? No? Half a million? NO? Then you're not a capitalist. You don't have a dog in the hunt. You're a worker.
Do you get richer when oil prices go up and trade deals are signed making it easier for foreigners to take American jobs? No? Then you haven't got a dog in the hunt. You're a worker."
"When the Republican Party comes after your social security checks and your Mom's Medicare benefits, trust me, you're in that hunt, only it looks like you're the hunted not the hunter."
Craig Johnson
cognitorex blogspot

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» Nicely put, but . . . Posted by: EKSwitaj
With "Liberals" like Friedman, who needs neocons?
Posted by: UnEasyOne on Jul 5, 2007 4:03 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have watched in horror over and over as Friedman blithely brushes aside gaping holes in whatever argument he is making; not so much minimizing them as pretending they didn't exist. He does this with all the fervor of any evangelist and with similar disdain for the unenlightened and unbelievers.

There are far too many examples of this for a slow typist like myself to cover here; I'll provide one.

The largest electricity provider in the state of Texas (TXU) announced that it was going to build 11 new coal-fired electrical generating plants. No way that was ever going to happen - even in Texas. Still, political logrolling to build began; so did the pushback. Suddenly a big LBO firm rides to the rescue with an offer to buy TXU and shortly thereafter announces a deal with some "environmentalists" to forgo construction of 8 of the plants.

Friedman then wrote a glowing column about this huge environmental "victory," praising the sharks and their "hybrid limousines."

Not mentioned of course, were a host of inconvenient facts: the agreement would not be legally binding, it would not in any way constrain future owners and no commitment was made not to do what LBO firms actually do - break the firm into it's constituent parts and sell them; the new owners still planned to build three new coal fired plants! Cynics (like myself) were heard to mutter that eight of the plants were throwaways - intended to make us feel better about three new massive polluters that would not be approved anywhere else in the country.

Every tome I hear Thomas Friedman and "liberal" mentioned in the same sentence, I cringe.

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A servile class ideologue lies and deforms reality for oligarchy
Posted by: Perfectclue on Jul 5, 2007 4:17 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Thomas Friedmann, the class whore for corporate, zionist, american foreign policies, are the "expert" idiots that class liberals on public TV, NPR, New York Times, routinely use, while pretending this ideological rot is the only alternative to the neocon polices. This corrupt ideological outlook, looks both fascist, imperialist, criminal in the eyes of common sense.

These are the class elites, with their class ideology, and criminal policies that justifies illegal aggressions, corporate fascism, and does not even notice the wholesale corruption of its own middle layers, what Olbermann said in on of his hard hitting commentaries on MSNBC. Keith correctly lableled them, a failed political class, and appeasing corrupt class of Neville Chamberlains, which includes both class parties, class ideologies: the democrtatic and repuglican class thugs have "streamlined this process", who betray the public on the issue of Iraq.

Actually, the betrayal, and class corruption, began as early as the collapse of the democratic revolutions, of the French Revolution, British, and American versions, when they institutionalized property rights over human rights, through their class laws, which served the emerging commercial, industrial oligarchy. This reproduced the class mechanism, that occurs between a corrupt middle class and oligarchy, and also established the class nationalism and Empire. Thus, Napoleon marched into Euorpe and Russia for the first capitalist Empire.

The ancent Greeks already understood the degenerative class processs on civil societies, that applies beyond the 300 years of Late Capitalism, and corporate fascism, and applies to the 3000 years of patriarchical class rule. The ongoing cycles of class republics, class democracy, morph into oligarchy, pluotcracy, tyrants, dictators, and Empire because this class mechanism operates on an international, and long historical road, a class mechanism, that rots out all national revolutions which have yet to transform, negate this global class system. These rotten class relations are the very ones that Thomas Friedman counts on to subordinate and cripple democracy and social growth, in the service of the oligarchy and American Empire, and therefore he has to make this very false claim, that all class ideologist, and class societies argue, already exists, and must be extended to global corporate, fascist, imperial policies.

Karl Marx, revolutionary liberals, as opposed to this and all rotten class liberals, would argue that all democratic, socialist movements have still yet to be proven wrong, because they have not removed this historical, global, patricarchical class lever, and the only way to construct a social and democratic principle, is to reconstruct a fully developed middle class, uncrippled, uncorrupted middle class, subordinated by class masters, and oligarchy. The negation of all class hieararchies, class ideologies, and class elites, not only on a national level, but on an international level, would finally displace this long term historical class lever, of 3000 yearts, the patriarchical class mechanism, that operates on a global level, for a universal mechanism on an international level. Thomas Friedman then truly would be "turned up side down", and the laughing butt of jokes, if he already isn't.

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» Whoa, Karl Marx? Posted by: LeftCoastProgressive
» Are you saying, Posted by: famouspipeliner
Friedman's Popularity
Posted by: Urstrly on Jul 5, 2007 4:27 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I understand why anyone would envy the easy acceptance Friedman has as a guru in the business class, but he's popular because he's saying what they want to hear, that they're getting rich making the world a better place. Two facts might help enlighten folks about Friedman: his best office buddy was William Safire, and he married into one of the nation's wealthiest families. Friedman's no liberal except by some 19th century interpretation of laissez-faire, and his assumptions only further the worst aspects of globalization. When Flat Earth was published, critics said Clyde Prestowitz's "Three Billion New Capitalists" offered a better analysis, if you can find it.

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» RE: Friedman's Popularity Posted by: hms2004
» Friedman Posted by: CatDad
Tom F. & McDonald's -- see Norman Angell
Posted by: karma_ran_over_dogma on Jul 5, 2007 5:02 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Isn't Friedman the one who came up with the observation that no two countries with McDonald's have ever gone to war -- and therefore that no two countries with McDonald's ever will go to war? Sounds like more of a Norman Angell in the years before 1914 than a Voltaire. Look up Angell: he had an influential cult following who believed his view that the rampant capitalism of the day, interconnectedness of nations, blah blah blah, would inevitably prevent war.

(quibble: Voltaire couldn't keep up with the zeitgeist of the French revolution, having died several years earlier.)

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» Uh oh. What's our largest trading partner? Posted by: karma_ran_over_dogma
Terrible misuse of "liberal"
Posted by: Jabby on Jul 5, 2007 5:11 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Friedman is a neoliberal, NOT a liberal, and it seems awfully disingenuous of Marshall to equate the labels. What's the agenda here? Yes, Friedman needs endless skewering--he's a pox on humanity--but the deliberate misuse of language here invalidates this work.

Let's face it: Unless progressives and liberals can be allies, fascism wins.

(Sheesh, even in Canada, progressives (NDP & Greens) can't scrounge up a third of the vote on their own.)

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Friedman's a Liberal????????????
Posted by: seamus on Jul 5, 2007 6:26 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
it's a poor reflection on the contemporary US that a pro-market dogmatist like Thomas Friedman is considered a liberal

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WHO considers Friedman a liberal?
Posted by: willymack on Jul 5, 2007 6:48 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Maybe someone in the shadows (one of the REAL rulers of this country) is posing him as a "liberal" to muddy already murky political waters. Enough with the secrets, already; they're killing us.

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Will we complete the globalization model before it grinds to a halt?
Posted by: KeepsonTickn on Jul 5, 2007 6:50 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Certainly, massive disruption and human misery on an unprecedented scale will occur as the globalization model is completed, but will we finish the building of the globalization infrastructure before the depletion of energy sources makes it useless? The last drop of oil will be spent sucking the last 1/10th of a drop of oil out of the ground. It will happen in some of our lifetimes. Then what will we do with all those massive container ships, pipelines, jumbo jets, eight lane highways and mega-tankers? Globalization will end - but what will it leave behind?

I have to shake my head when I see people fighting over ANWR. That oil will be drilled. If liberals have their way, it will be worth $500 a barrel when it is drilled. If conservatives have their way, it will be worth $50. When the oil is gone we will build hundreds of nuclear plants and burn the most sulphurous coal to keep it all going.

Not long after we run out of fuel, we will see the world's ecosystems, already drastically weakened by the sudden heating we caused, struck again by sudden cooling as the greenhouse gases dissipate (unfortunately though, the changes will not be sudden enough - there are a lot of systems, such as coral and many rainforests, that simply cannot survive hundred plus year cycles on this scale.)

Somehow, during this next few generations, human population will drop precipitously from the nine billion projected for 2050 to something less than the historically sustainable billion or so. This will happen, whether through humane, planned changes or through wars, famine and disease.

How can anyone not see this coming?

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While Americans watch American idol and quarrel over
Posted by: Ydotheyhateus on Jul 5, 2007 7:31 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
illegal immigration, US jobs are getting exported at a higher rate, and politicians from the two-headed monster aka Democratic and Rebublican party sing praise of outsourcing.

The US Commerce Department spent $335,000 in 2003-04 on what was considered a comprehensive study on the impact of high-tech job loss in the US. Required to release the 360-page report in July 2004, the Bush administration stalled. Instead, in September 2005, it produced a tepid 12-page summary that championed job loss as a gain for the US economy. A fight in Congress eventually brought this document into the public domain although newspapers have failed to give it the attention it deserves.

The study shows that the attrition of jobs in the high-tech sector is quite serious for those who live within the US. Between 2000 and 2003, the number of engineers employed in the US dropped by 4,000, while those hired by US semiconductor firms offshore increased by 10,000. "As leading companies locate in or contract with labour in other countries," the report argues, "concerns about the shift of work include fears that higher value work may shift from the United States to other locations, impacting US industrial strength and high-salary employment... . Offshoring of design work can also impose downward pressure on US wages and reduce the demand for US design engineers. As the number of overseas design centres increases, it may draw foreign talent from the United States."

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Trivia
Posted by: shangrilalad on Jul 5, 2007 7:46 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Friedman is a pimple on the rear end of a Stinkbug, which might be a concern for the Stinkbug, but not for me.
.

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Thank You Stephen Marshall
Posted by: lambchops on Jul 5, 2007 7:46 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I plan on buying your new book and also the True Lies book you co-authored with Anthony Lappe. And I plan on reading Samir Amin's book too.
Thank you for writing about Friedman's book because that one I will not be reading.

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Friedman
Posted by: Elfits on Jul 5, 2007 8:10 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Thomas Friedman has never been a liberal. Unless you mean a Judy Miller liberal ... This whole premise is false.

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» RE: Friedman Posted by: Bozly
Good article
Posted by: kelt65 on Jul 5, 2007 8:19 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Thomas Friedman is perhaps the biggest douchebag living on the earth today. He's also a dreadful writer and barely rises to the level of a third rate thinker. That says something about his fans.

As for whether he is 'liberal': he most certainly is. He is a classic liberal; liberals have always been capitalists. It is only the post civil rights era that liberals have been viewed as progressive in any way.

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» "liberals have always been capitalists" Posted by: LeftCoastProgressive
Evidence of Industry Eating Its Own
Posted by: osisbs on Jul 5, 2007 8:37 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You only have to look at the US auto and airline industries to realize that their low wages, union slashing, and greedy CEO's are leading the companies into bankruptcy. Capitalism doesn't work when 1/2 of the people in my state make less than $10/hour and could not dream of flying or buying a new car.
Maybe there are such things as "good" and "bad" capitalism, but I'm not seeing them.

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another terrific article with facts and insight!!!
Posted by: Ghoulman on Jul 5, 2007 8:53 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
... jebus, this website does have terrific articles once in a while. This one was better than Freakonomics! :D

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Francis
Posted by: Francis on Jul 5, 2007 9:08 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What more need Friedman say or do after confessing that he knows nothing about economics nor about globalization? Be reminded that this confession was uttered after the publication of countless articles and a book on those very topics? Friedman is laughing at the book-buying world and, more significantly, at the countless millions suffering the horrors of globalization's fury, comforted by a perfect contempt for the human race, protected by his wife's inherited money, and by his employer's and his own political untouchability as Zionist assets and operatives. No educated person has ever or would ever take Friedman's writings seriously. Anyone who continues to honor Friedman by reading his rambling jibberish after his public admission of indifference and ignorance of the very subjects about which he so profitably scribbles, should consider using their time more wisely.

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» Fiddler Under the Bed Posted by: edith
» RE: Francis Posted by: mobilone
Critiques of Thomas Friedman
Posted by: fanny666 on Jul 5, 2007 9:23 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Critique of Thomas Friedman

Critique of Thomas Friedman

The second one is very long, but worth reading.

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More anti-Flathead ammunition
Posted by: eddie torres on Jul 5, 2007 9:44 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Sam
Posted by: vssmith on Jul 5, 2007 10:09 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I know oil is at the top of our agenda but I have always suspected that for some, and possibly Friedman, protecting Israel is not far behind.

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» RE: Sam Posted by: DCBeltway
Elitist lapdog for the rich and powerful.
Posted by: HughScott on Jul 5, 2007 10:12 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I blew off Tom Friedman when he advocated sky-high gasoline prices to solve ther energy crisis. Never mind his "solution" would economically destroy millions of hard-working Americans, a position in life he knows nothing about.

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» RE: litist lapdog for the rich and powerful. Posted by: LeftCoastProgressive
another circular firing squad
Posted by: allyourbasearebelongtous on Jul 5, 2007 10:23 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Usually I love Alternet because opinion and news are readily available here that aren't seen or heard much elsewhere. It's like an online Utne Reader. But I have to say that both this story and most of the comments seem to be just one more version of the old circular firing squad that we are so good at. "You're not liberal enough. No, you're not liberal enough. I'm more liberal than you. Oh yeah, says who?" If you close your eyes and listen to the tone rather than the substance, you might think you had wandered into a playground squabble among children. When I first started reading the excerpt, I thought I was reading some garbled or gibberish version of a right-wing attack. Do any of you "lefties" remember the idea of a popular front or is the circular firing squad all the rage now? So now that I have dared to disagree, let the flaming attacks on me begin. Excuse while I step away from the circular firing squad so you hit only yourselves.

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» RE: another circular firing squad Posted by: LeftCoastProgressive
» RE: another circular firing squad Posted by: allyourbasearebelongtous
» Where's the Liberal? Posted by: edith
» RE: Where's the Liberal? Posted by: allyourbasearebelongtous
Flat Earth Flat Mind
Posted by: ceti on Jul 5, 2007 10:51 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Friedman's delusion is that of all globalizers who believe their globetrotting exploitation of workers in other countries is a charitable act. Call centres in places like India are the new sweatshops, where money is dissipated in the new consumerism of the younger classes, who cannot work at these places for too long before burning out. Very little of that money is trickling down to the vast majority of people who are losing their unionized jobs to contractual and flexible labour or their rural livelihoods to big agribusiness (hence the rash of suicides). Friedman would of course tut tut such tragedies as only momentary in the transition of to a free market globalized economy. The same is true of a lot of leaders, who in places like India do get tossed out on a regular basis. Sadly, like here, the new bosses are like the old bosses, and quickly change their tune to match that of free market orthodoxy, with only crumbs and few genuflections to the deep crisis affecting millions if not billions.

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Neocons and New Greens are Agents of the Military Industrial Complex
Posted by: gracefounddog on Jul 5, 2007 10:59 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Friedman says he's not a neocon - he's a "new green.' (his words) Both of these "neos" are actually pushing the same agenda - a military/corporocratic agenda that puts America and her people LAST. Neocons and Neogreens are traitors; their agenda is a FASCIST one - something that neither real conservatives or liberals want!

I think it's important to distinguish a "new green" from a traditional American "liberal." Just as we must distinguish a neocon from a traditional conservative. To fail to recognize the difference is to be uninformed, which isn't hard to do since our media is sold out and covering up the truth. Failing to make the distinction means we're uniformed. We are in a CRISIS as a nation and the last thing we need is our attachment to partisan sides!! This is COUP. Please inform yourselves! Hilary and Obama are neogreens, as well as Gore. We are in huge trouble if we elect yet another NEO. These people are wolves in sheeps clothing.

Friedman the Fraudulent

Must Read:CHILLING!!

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Liberal? I thought he was merely an idiot.
Posted by: Beached Whale on Jul 5, 2007 11:46 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Thomas Friedman is not a liberal, he is a self-serving ignoramus (emphasis on the 'ignoramus'). My wife (an Oxford-trained academic), who does not read the NYT, or Friedman, bought his latest screed because "everyone is reading it". Boy, did we have an argument about that; mostly about adding to the coffers of the willfully stupid. The NYT is an ignorant rag and Friedman merely a reflection of the vacuity which passes for depth there. By the way, I only skimmed the article, as I do with all inanity, and won't waste my time further with this pointlessness.

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THE NEO'S HAVE TAKEN EVERYTHING ELSE
Posted by: Roverton on Jul 5, 2007 12:10 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why not steal the word "Liberal" as well?

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The disingenuous Mr. Friedman a Liberal, not!
Posted by: amilius on Jul 5, 2007 12:54 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
None who stress the expansion and conservation of advantage are 'liberal'. A liberal understands that advantage arises for the purpose of sharing as 'benevolence'.
'Benevolence' is that which might be shared with all.
'Advantage', by definiton, is that which cannot be shared with all. Confusing these things serves the ungracious purposes of hypocrites like Mr. Friedman.
He's no liberal.

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Tom "Flatulence" Flatworld Friedman "LIBERAL"?
Posted by: 2Truthy on Jul 5, 2007 2:00 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Mr. Marshall,

Excellent article and a long overdue book on the liberal elite agenda to eradicate our middle class. I have always considered that blowhard (Friedman) to be conservative, and yet the liberal label you give him makes sense in context at least one way, which is in the company he keeps. Friedman has managed to become the PR tool for many Silicon Valley tech and financial elites who are currently involved in stelath GREEN tech deals which involve a complicit Democratic Congress and other possible election candidates with green interests. In what has been said to be the 'final push' to the trough before the Chinese call in the debt, these wealthy tech and financial elites have banded together to cash out before the economic collapse that will solidify the trench between the wealthy and the feudal society that Friedman's posse has architected to rid this nation of its middle class through selling off our jobs to the third world.

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IguessI'mnotsoliberal
Posted by: rcunice on Jul 5, 2007 2:12 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Whew, at least this writer has it right. What a bunch of one-upsmanship: he's not a real liberal. Nonsense! This is really hateful speech, er, writing. Some even accusing him of being a Zionist (read Jewish). If the anti-Globalization people believe that destroying a McDonald's in Europe, or burning autos in France is helpful, they are very naive. Friedman is absolutely right, work will travel to places in this world where it can be done best. And if that means more cheaply (although not always) than it will happen. It is counter-productive to name-call and rail against evolution. We must adapt.

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» RE: IguessI'mnotsoliberal Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: IguessI'mnotsoliberal Posted by: DCBeltway
SORRY –> the WORLD is RIGGED by CORPORATE MONOPOLY (FASCISM)
Posted by: Hal on Jul 5, 2007 3:52 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
“For the new capitalist revolution, there is New York Times columnist Thomas Friedman…there is probably no other liberal who fits the description of a wolf in sheep's clothing than America's preeminent globalization advocate.”

This “capitalist revolution” line is emotional garbage that falsely frames the entire debate. Marshall thus betrays a steep ignorance of economics and strategic geo-politics throughout. And the democratization of global business is pure red herring.

Neocon Friedman is as “liberal” as Bush-Cheney is “conservative” (that is to say not at all). T. Friedman and countless others of a faux leftwing MSM establishment are no better than sellout carnies working for a de facto CORPORATE CRIME MONOPOLY STATE that makes an Orwellian mockery of capitalism and democracy.

“He [Thomas Friedman] believed the overthrow of Saddam Hussein represented the very best aspects of American liberalism.”

Really? Au contraire.

Let’s say “American liberalism” is what T. Friedman, William Kristol, David Brooks, Richard Pearl, Hillary Clinton, Joe Lieberman, and ad nauseum would like suckers and patsies to believe it is.

Anyone with a ghost of a clue knew a 911 cover-up and its equally bogus “war on terror” was a blood money global farce. In Iraq “war on terror” was built up as a key puppet garrison state for a CORPORATE CRIME MONOPOLY STATE in charge of DC, London and Tel Aviv.

This has always been about a Eurasian/Mid East plan to dominate Big Oil resources thru cartel fiat banking with Israel as strategic backup. Anyone who buys into other core motives has swallowed the psyop and systemic Kool-Aid.

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» RE: SORRY –> MERCURY INSURANCE Posted by: apophenia_monkey
» RE: SORRY –> DC-MSM KOOL-AID Posted by: apophenia_monkey
» RE: Now whose... Posted by: apophenia_monkey
» h=i a=b l=m Posted by: apophenia_monkey
'Liberal' here = capitalist!
Posted by: medstudgeek on Jul 5, 2007 4:17 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In the rest of the world, 'liberal' means capitalist--what we here in the USA mean by 'conservative', more or less. That's why you'll see Europeans on the left refer to 'neoliberalism' as the enemy whereas Americans might talk about 'globalization' (which amusingly is referred to as 'Americanization' outside the US).

He's calling Friedman a capitalist pig, not a fellow-traveler with Howard Dean, Barack Obama, and Dennis Kucinich.

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» RE: 'Liberal' here = capitalist! Posted by: KeepsonTickn
Alternet, PLEASE clarify the American versus European definitions next time!
Posted by: medstudgeek on Jul 5, 2007 4:22 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Most of the discussion on this article revolves around the author's unfamiliar-to-Americans use of 'liberal' to mean 'pro-capitalist'. Unfortunately this is 150 degrees away from what it means over here in the USA. (It's not completely opposed.)

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So just when did "Liberal" get redefined, and by whom?
Posted by: Ian MacLeod on Jul 5, 2007 4:43 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The neocons call themselves "conservatives", and not only do they conserve nothing at all, they're shooting themselves in the foot as well as shooting us. Their policies are insane and self-destructive, as well as destructive of everyting they actually value: the work force, sources for raw material, their own customers, etc, etc. They're against any rights for anyone but themselves, but are especially against worker's rights to make enough to survive on, much less have any of what no one but America calls "benefits": health care, housing, education and so on.

Last I heard, Liberals were for controlling Big Business so that it didn't mindlessly destroy the economy, the environment and the very societies in which they exist. Liberals have always stood for helping the poor and others who have been devastated by circimstance, for feeding the hungry, vaccinating children - everything the neocons want to get rid of. Conservatives have always wanted segregation between "races" (there's only one race on the planet: human), socio-economic strata and every other possible division they could find. They are elitists to the core, pretending (though their sincerity is even more frightening) to be doing all this "for your own good", apparently certain that getting out of the corporate road will force healthy competition instead of corporate predation on each other and on us until there's just one big Super-Megacorp remaining to represent business and government: fascism. That's the direction unfettered business always takes, has always taken, and always will.

So when did all that come to represent Liberalism? It makes no sense whatsoever. Suddenly Liberals are being accused of doing everything they've always been against, everything the so-called conservatives actually are doing. The neocons have done all they could to make liberalism a dirty word precisely because liberals demand that business be regulated so it doesn't kill people in it's unending search for MORE PROFITS, and INFINITE EXPANSION - in a finite system. Liberals want people educated, fed, treated when they're ill, and real competition between busineses to the improvement of quality for all instead of the enrichment of a literal handful and the impoverishment of everyone else.

This article seems to be buying into the necon's foundation lie: that bad business practice is the fault of a Liberal conspiracy that never existed; this while they themselves throw out all rules that don't lead to greater profits for cronies and themselves not matter the cost to everyone else. I feel like I've stepped into a weird looking-glass world where everything is inverted. I don't get it.

Ian

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Tom Friedman on neocons, Iraq war
Posted by: BewareTheZiocons on Jul 5, 2007 5:09 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=280279

White man's burden by Ari Shavit

In the course of the past year, a new belief has emerged in the town: the belief in war against Iraq. That ardent faith was disseminated by a small group of 25 or 30 neoconservatives, almost all of them Jewish, almost all of them intellectuals (a partial list: Richard Perle, Paul Wolfowitz, Douglas Feith, William Kristol, Eliot Abrams, Charles Krauthammer), people who are mutual friends and cultivate one another and are convinced that political ideas are a major driving force of history. They believe that the right political idea entails a fusion of morality and force, human rights and grit. The philosophical underpinnings of the Washington neoconservatives are the writings of Machiavelli, Hobbes and Edmund Burke. They also admire Winston Churchill and the policy pursued by Ronald Reagan. They tend to read reality in terms of the failure of the 1930s (Munich) versus the success of the 1980s (the fall of the Berlin Wall).

[snip]

Is this an American Lebanon War? Tom Friedman says he is afraid it is. He was there, in the Commodore Hotel in Beirut, in the summer of 1982, and he remembers it well. So he sees the lines of resemblance clearly. General Ahmed Chalabi (the Shi'ite leader that the neoconservatives want to install as the leader of a free Iraq) in the role of Bashir Jemayel. The Iraqi opposition in the role of the Phalange. Richard Perle and the conservative circle around him as Ariel Sharon. And a war that is at bottom a war of choice. A war that wants to utilize massive force in order to establish a new order.

Tom Friedman, The New York Times columnist, did not oppose the war. On the contrary. He too was severely shaken by September 11, he too wants to understand where these desperate fanatics are coming from who hate America more than they love their own lives. And he too reached the conclusion that the status quo in the Middle East is no longer acceptable. The status quo is terminal. And therefore it is urgent to foment a reform in the Arab world.

[snip]

Is the Iraq war the great neoconservative war? It's the war the neoconservatives wanted, Friedman says. It's the war the neoconservatives marketed. Those people had an idea to sell when September 11 came, and they sold it. Oh boy, did they sell it. So this is not a war that the masses demanded. This is a war of an elite. Friedman laughs: I could give you the names of 25 people (all of whom are at this moment within a five-block radius of this office) who, if you had exiled them to a desert island a year and a half ago, the Iraq war would not have happened.

The Israel Lobby
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N294FMDok98
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNQv5YSg_YA

Neocons advocate war with Iraq in the weeks after 9/11
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLv69k3G2Qg

Toxic Talk on War
http://www.washingtonpost.com
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugesi_gaqLU

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Clarification and a bit more of an excerpt
Posted by: SWMarshall on Jul 5, 2007 6:24 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Guys,

I had forgotten how engaged this community was... the responses to this excerpt could keep me writing for months. It's true, the words "liberal" and "conservative" mean so little these days. Especially in the US, where proponents of domestic "liberal" values can be villified by conservatives who simultaneously share their belief in "free trade" and "globalization," as well as the way that America exerts itself economically through financial instruments like the WTO and World Bank.

This is just an excerpt of course. And I spend the first part of the book being very clear about just what I mean by the word liberal: its etymological roots, philosophical underpinnings and where the neo-cons (who were, as some of you have pointed out, all liberals before they got "mugged by reality") went astray. I also go into depth (through an illuminating interview with former Economic Hit Man John Perkins) about the lie of "free trade."

But I thought this bit from the end of the first chapter might add a useful dimension to this discussion of American liberalism as it's viewed from abroad. I have cornered Christopher Hitchens in the Green Room at the Hay Festival who admits that as a lifelong socialist, he has now embraced capitalism. [it's too long to post here so will do it in a next one, you can find other excerpts on the book site]

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the Hitchens excerpt (1)
Posted by: SWMarshall on Jul 5, 2007 6:33 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hitchens’ major inspiration to become a writer came while sitting in a public library in Devonshire, reading an essay by Connor Cruise O’Brien, the Irish diplomat and historian. In it, O’Brien refers to liberalism as “the word that makes the rich world yawn and the poor world sick.” Being labeled it was a charge considered “damaging” in Africa, Asia and Latin America where, O’Brien explains, “the American and European liberal has too often been – and is perhaps increasingly – a false friend.” Casting the Kennedy-era American UN ambassador Adlai Stevenson as the liberal voice par excellence, O’Brien describes how the liberal state’s benevolence looked to its recipients:

“From this viewpoint, Mr. Stevenson’s face, with its shiftily earnest advocate’s expression, is the ingratiating moral mask which a toughly acquisitive society wears before the world it robs: ‘liberalism’ is the ideology of the rich, the elevation into universal values of the codes which favoured the emergence, and favour the continuance, of the capitalist society.”

It was an indictment that resonated with Hitchens, then a budding eighteen year-old socialist.

“Actually, if you read that essay,” he explains, “it was exactly what I felt for us on the left in Britain: the word liberal was a very rude thing to call somebody. Liberalism was an attempt to drape capitalism with some kind of pious social conscience… It used to be preceded almost always with the term ‘wishy-washy.’”

Hitchens takes a long drag on his cigarette, adding, “In America now, liberal is the word that the right uses to defame secularism, welfarism, anti-militarism and so on. I think because it’s no longer plausible to attack communism. There used to be two ways of attacking liberalism. One was to say ‘limousine liberal’ – it’s very much what one would call myself – and the other was as ‘soft on’ communism.”

“I think the verdict of history is in," he sighs, "one may feel a little wistful about it, but wistfulness is no good as a dialectical method. At all. So, in fact, capitalism is reasserting itself as the only revolution. And it takes a Marxist to see it, sometimes.”

“Asserting itself as what kind of revolution?” I ask.

“As the only dynamic revolutionary force in the world, reasserting itself after having gone through terrible decay; after all capitalism led to imperialism, to fascism, to war. Led to the great crisis in the 20s and 30s. It’s true, don’t let’s forget. And not just morally true, it’s politically true. It looked as if it were dead-ended. It really did. And to most of its supporters it did too. And that’s why they went Keynesian. They thought, we can only save it this way. You had to buy [the workers] off. That’s what’s happened since: you’ve got to give these guys a health service, protection of work, and this and that. And also give them some money so they can go on buying things."

“It will never get to the point of stasis, it will keep on consuming itself... Joseph Schumpeter called it creative destruction: capitalism needs to go on devouring things and making things unstable and dangerous in order to keep on existing. Finding shorter and more scientific routes to production, productivity, demand, efficiency, discarding waste or competition, creating and then breaking up monopolies. It creates a destructive force. But anyone can recognize it as a revolution. It’s the only revolution in town.”

He says it with a kind of swagger that almost feels triumphant and then declares the inevitable: “But now we think it’s very unlikely that its workers will become its managers. That doesn’t seem as if that’s ever going to happen. They can become its beneficiaries.”

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the Hitchens excerpt (2)
Posted by: SWMarshall on Jul 5, 2007 6:34 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[sorry this is so long, can't bother to edit it all over again!]

[...]

In his essay that so inspired the young socialist Hitchens, Connor Cruise O’Brien chronicles a conversation between himself and Kwame Nkrumah, the pan-Africanist leader who became the first Prime Minister of Ghana. Nkrumah was then involved in trying to make Ghana into a socialist society. Of this effort, O’Brien writes, he believed “this government had been right to reject the façade of liberalism,” and that he saw in it a “greater sense of responsibility to the people — not in a formal sense but in a profound one — than [in] neighboring states with more apparently liberal constitutions.”

When Nkrumah asked O’Brien, who was there to work with the government, if he was a socialist, the Irishman replied that he was, understanding that to be a liberal in Africa was a to be a “false friend.” But driving home after the interview, Connor explains, he realized that a liberal was in fact what he was.

“Whatever I might argue, I was more profoundly attached to liberal concepts of freedom… than I was to the idea of a disciplined party mobilizing all the forces of society for the creation of a social order guaranteeing more real freedom for all instead of just for a few.”

I wonder if Hitchens is aware just how much he echoes the reluctant admission of his literary polestar in his own acquiescence to the fatality of the socialist ideal. As one of the highest paid writers in the United States, what else can he do but accept his own latent capitalism?

“It means we’ve conceded,” he says, “that capitalism has embarked on another revolution. It’s not only survived the battle with socialism but it’s replenishing and extending and strengthening itself, without a viable or plausible alternative.”

With the daylight now flirting with the crimson hues of sunset, Hitchens rises from his chair. Bidding me goodbye, he wishes me luck in discovering my own path, away from the Left he now sees as reactionary defenders of the status quo.

“There’s no longer any Left and I can’t be any part of it. It took a lot for me to get to the realization that it was,” he pauses for effect, “conservative. I wasted so much time… you could save yourself the trouble. You’ll feel better.”

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» Beneficiaries Posted by: Coleman
» RE: the Hitchens excerpt (2) Posted by: Ian MacLeod
» RE: the Hitchens excerpt (2) Posted by: SWMarshall
fractional reserve banking as economic parasitism
Posted by: vzn on Jul 5, 2007 7:15 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
a "rigged game". even more than any of you realize.
the underlying money system itself is broken at best, corrupt at worst.
probably intentionally so. "thats not a bug, its a feature"

consider a free electronic paper I wrote called
fractional reserve banking as economic parasitism

endorsed by two phd economists. printed in nexus
magazine, 60k world circulation. #1 top downloaded
economics paper. used by economics
teacher in australia as standard classroom material.

more info on request.


recent supporting material:

- confessions of an economic hit man by Perkins

- money as debt video by Grignon

- Congressman pres candidate Dennis Kucinich
at last years
2005 Monetary Reform Conference

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Liberal My Skinny Ass
Posted by: opeluboy on Jul 5, 2007 7:23 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As many here have stated, Friedman is a neoliberal, not a liberal in the true sense of the word. There is a universe of difference.

And of course Friedman, an ardent Zionist who plays at viewing Israel/Palestine objectively (while carefully slanting all he writes entirely pro-Israel) is for any war that eliminates hundreds of thousands of Israel's enemies, real or imagined, born or yet unborn, crawling or walking, armed or unarmed, male or female, old or young.

And it is of course this Israel-first supremacism that allows Friedman, along with Emerson, Miller, Schwartz, Ledeen, Pollack, Lewis, Krauthammer, Saphire, Gold and all the other Zionists who infest our media, to pontificate on the Middle East, terrorism, Arabs and Islam as if they were truly experts, and not simply propagandists and apologists for one of the more disgusting regimes of our time. Their presence and status proves, if one needed it, that our media is truly controlled by their ilk, and that it is not just a case of "overrepresentation." Were this not the case, the media might allow some of these "experts" to actually by residents of the Middle East, Arabs or Muslims. They don't (unless they're total Quislings).

I am sure I will be called an anti-Semite (again) and other names by the regular Zionazis who daily scan this site for any anything unfavorable to their one true cause and only country that holds their loyalty. And as usual, they will offer no arguments or refutation, just insults. I am also sure someone will argue that Friedman has made certain noises that sound like actual support for Palestinian freedom.

It will be,of course, utter bullshit.

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» My Zionist Paycheck Posted by: apophenia_monkey
» RE: My Zionist Paycheck Posted by: opeluboy
» RE: My Zionist Paycheck Posted by: apophenia_monkey
50,000 or so MORE dead Iraqi civ/AmericanGI casualties here....50.000 there..pretty soon...
Posted by: ekipnrut on Jul 5, 2007 7:37 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
you're into some real numbers....
[following is my comment to an August 2006 Alternet article]:
Why Does Tom Friedman Still Have a Job?
By Robert Parry, Consortium News. Posted August 21, 2006.
Smiling Face
Posted by: ekipnrut on Aug 24, 2006 12:48 AM
.....The threshold question regarding Mr. Friedman is simply
why should his opinions,analyses or pontifications be given
any elevated status whatsoever to begin with ?
He has no particularly noteworthy academic or intellectual
qualifications.....a chickenhawk....married into big bucks...
...an arrogant pampered self serving asswipe who,with the
stroke of his pundit's pen, is willing to rationalize horrors for
'foreigners' of color that he couldn't begin to fathom for his
family.
Think back and over the last twenty years or so: name one
epiphany,even a cogent prescient observation on world
affairs, published by this man. Zip,nada,nothing.
A pimp and a lackey for war criminals and the architects
of the intended New World Order
Who cares WTF he predictably 'thinks'.

BTW: (from the August 2006 Parry article ref above): Under principles of international law applied from Nuremberg to Rwanda, propagandists who contribute to war crimes or encourage crimes against humanity can be put in the dock alongside the actual killers.
Though such a fate may not await America's pro-war pundits, Friedman and other commentators who helped ease the way to Bush's unprovoked invasion of Iraq, and thus contributed to the ongoing slaughters in the Middle East, might at least have the decency to admit their incompetence and resign.

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What a shame...
Posted by: SteveB on Jul 5, 2007 9:31 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The author is essentially arguing that global capitalism, followed through to its logical conclusion, will lead to the complete impoverishment and death of billions of people in the "developing" world.

And what's the response to this provocative idea? Whiny complaints that he's misused the word "liberal", even though his usage is, in fact, the way the word is used everywhere in the world except the U.S.

What can we learn from this? 1) Some folks care more about labels than actual people and 2) Americans apparently have a right to define words to mean anything they want, even if billions of people living outside the U.S. disagree.

To outraged American liberals, I say this: this article isn't about you. It's about the survival of most of this planet's population. Try to get over yourselves, and see if you have anything useful to say about that.

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» RE: What a shame... Posted by: Ian MacLeod
» RE: What a shame... Posted by: bob t
global corporate economy stranglehold
Posted by: allyourbasearebelongtous on Jul 5, 2007 10:35 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
With the global coporations having a stranglehold on the world's economy and having the backing of the world's major governments and therefore also having virtually all the world's military might potentially backing them as well, I would say that regular folks who might disagree with the direction of things are well and truly screwed. The pessimist in me thinks you should: learn to defend yourself in as many ways as possible and make sure your kids do too; learn to do some things to be able to survive in a primitive manner if need be and again make sure your kids do too. Depending on your age, you may not need this but your kids or their kids just might. The militias of the far right have already done this and we are waaay behind.

Maybe with the next election, some things could start to move in a better direction but if we have eight more years like this, things will begin to be even more obviously falling apart than they are now.

On another level, its not about capitalism and socialism. Its about routinized relationships of power, domination and privilege in any society. What goes on in societies now is not substantially different from the biggest strongest alpha male running the tribe 100,000 years ago and getting the best food and the best shelter for himself, his mate and his offspring. We really haven't gotten much beyond that even though our technology has changed considerably.

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» RE: global corporate economy stranglehold Posted by: allyourbasearebelongtous
» RE: Yes there are... Posted by: bob t
Liberal, is that being a socialist or a Green?
Posted by: Swedish liberal on Jul 6, 2007 5:02 PM   
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I am as usual extremely confused. Back home in Sweden a liberal means somebody that is a social libertarian and is also for market economy, although it can be regulated to constrain it if it is necessary to increase the welfare of the people. A liberal stands up for liberal democracy and human rights regardless of the culture.

In the US liberal seems to equate socialist and Green even revolutionary socialists and communists. They are relativists that accept human rights violations in third world countries because of culture differences. In Sweden it would never be the case.

A liberal in the US is per definition against globalisation and market economy. Globalisation is neither good nor bad, it is like the weather, and it exists whether you like it or not. Market economy is so far the only economic system that is viable and the only system that creates welfare for all. Socialism and communism has failed on a grand scale. (Europe and Sweden are not socialist; they are fully grown market economies. The difference is higher taxes and more income distribution. Otherwise the there is very little difference between the US or Europe.)

To be a liberal is not being a socialist or Green it is in fact just the opposite.

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Flat World?
Posted by: Tomasdelsol on Jul 6, 2007 7:57 PM   
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When I worked for NASA in the early 70's, I told my co-workers that the masses had more in common with Mao than they did with Nelson (Rockafeller)- I was partially right--see Bush/Cheney.

PS Did Gore read the "Greening of America"?

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REMEMBER HUMPTY DUMPTY
Posted by: Just Curious on Jul 7, 2007 6:40 AM   
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Re: the definition of the word 'liberal'.

Remember the immortal words of Humpty Dumpty:

"Words mean exactly what I want them to mean; nothing more and nothing less"

In the hands of both Americans and, increasingly Europeans, it's simply another version of Conservative (i.e. right wing). A kinder, more caring form of conservatism, perhaps, but conservatism nonetheless.

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Roger
Posted by: rogeralexander on Jul 8, 2007 1:05 AM   
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Thomas Friedman, a LIBERAL? You must be a Zionist to believe that!

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Terrorist oversight?
Posted by: carl baydala on Jul 8, 2007 8:15 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I thought the article was a good, clean attack on writers like Friedman. Friedman is an apologist for the system and I too remember the early days after 9/11 and the invasion of Iraq when he was there cheerleading Bush and the idea that the seeds of democracy were being planted in the MIddle East.

I did not believe his rhetoric then and I would not believe it now if I heard it again. I will rely on the author's description and criticism of Friedman's book which he read, and one which I will most likely never read. I don't really know why and when most people either become full-fledged proponents of the capitalist system, or like myself, maintain a tendency to identify its faults and point out its more negative features.

Capitalism currently has many faults as any intelligent human being can easily assess. The war in Iraq has much more to do with personal gain than with the implementation of democracy and saving a people from a dictator. We know why the U.S. invaded the country and it was not because some terrorists attacked New York City on a bright sunny day. I thought most people knew that by now and would question the use of terrorism as the reason for the invasion of Iraq and the liberation of the whole Middle East. I was just wondering why in the article the author skates over this issue whithout really questioning the reason for war as supplied by the elites.

His failure to do so made me question his motives for writing this very good article. As the author points out, that is where we are in the world right now; there are the believers and apologists for globalization like Friedman and there are others like myself who see that capitalism has a dark side as well. War is not the only negative to capitalism and imperialism, it is that slow and steady march to slavery and financial enslavement that concerns me the most. ( I am thinking primarlily here of the separation of the classes in the U.S and of the accumulation of debt by the nation and the people as consumers )

The people who control the economic and financial levers in the world have a great deal of influence on how I feel and think.

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