Diverse: Issues in Higher Education / By Margaret Kamara
comments_imageCOMMENTS: 328

Whites Just Don't Understand the Black Experience

To white Americans, giving up television is a hardship; being black is not. That's the upshot of a series of studies by researchers at The Ohio State University.
June 28, 2007  |  
 
 
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This article has also appeared on New America Media.

MANSFIELD, Ohio -- To white Americans, giving up television is a hardship; being black is not. That's the upshot of a series of studies by researchers at The Ohio State University.

As part of the studies, whites of different ages and geographic regions were asked how much they deserved to be paid for living the rest of their lives as an African American.

Respondents generally requested less than $10,000 to become black. However, they said they'd have to be paid $1 million to give up television for the rest of their lives.

"The costs of being black in our society are very well documented," says study co-author Philip Mazzocco. "Blacks have significantly lower income and wealth, higher levels of poverty and even shorter life spans, among many other disparities, compared to whites.

"When whites say they would need $1 million to give up TV, but less than $10,000 to become Black, that suggests they don't really understand the extent to which African Americans, as a group, are disadvantaged," says Mazzocco.

In another scenario, the references "white" and "America" were omitted, and participants were asked to select between being born a minority or majority in a fictional country called, "Atria." They were warned of the disadvantages that the minority group faced -- the same disparities faced by black Americans -- and they said they should be paid an average of $1 million to be born a minority.

"When you take it out of the black-white context, white Americans seem to fully appreciate the costs associated with the kinds of disparities that African Americans actually face in the United States," Mazzocco says.

"Our data suggest that such resistance is not because white Americans are mean and uncaring, morally bankrupt or ethically flawed," adds Dr. Mahzarin R. Banaji, a professor of social ethics at Harvard University. "White Americans suffer from a glaring ignorance about what it means to live as a black American."

The study also found that nearly all whites opposed reparations for slavery, saying it was "too long ago" and that the descendants of slavery don't need to be compensated.

However, when researchers ask participants to imagine a situation in which they could be part of a reparation lawsuit that would compensate them $5,000 for an event that occurred 150 years ago to a wealthy ancestor of theirs, 61 percent agreed to be part of the lawsuit.

This is the same percentage of blacks today that support reparations for slave descendants.

"[The] surveys show that 90 to 96 percent of white Americans are against slave descendant reparations. It is nearly impossible to get that many people to agree on anything, so it is an issue that really deserves attention to see why this is," says Mazzocco. "We need to take a heated and emotional issue and look through a scientific lens."

The study, titled "The Cost of Being Black: White Americans' Perceptions and the Question of Reparations," was facilitated by a postdoctoral fellowship to Mazzocco from Ohio State's Kirwan Institute for the Study of Race and Ethnicity. The study appears in the fall 2006 issue of Harvard's Du Bois Review, a journal on social science research on race.

Georgia Southern University associate economics professor Gregory J. Brock, one of the study's co-author's, says the idea to do the study came after viewing media coverage of reparations struggles for groups wrongfully interred during wars.
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Giving up television is a hardship?
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Logic's Edge on Jun 28, 2007 12:06 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I thought viewership has been in a tailspin these days.

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Being white...
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Temporary on Jun 28, 2007 12:10 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
is like living in gods candy store;no matter how much you steal, it's always OK!


Being black on the other hand is like living in hell;you screw up once, and you'll be whipped so much you wont remember your own name by the time it's over!

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» RE: Being white... Posted by: scvile
» RE: Being white... Posted by: kimbari
» RE: Being white... Posted by: mobile68
» RE: How does the cop know you are poor? Posted by: sterlingdave54
» RE: Being white... Posted by: luffy28
» RE: Being white... Posted by: perri6
» She's probably also rich. Posted by: yellow
» RE: Being white... Posted by: fibrowitch

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Giving up t.v.
[Report this comment]
Posted by: algodees on Jun 28, 2007 2:42 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
last July was the best thing I have ever done and it is as good as getting $1M. Why do we have so much trouble putting ourselves in another persons shoes? I guess we just aren't paying attention and can't be bothered to really consider others.

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» RE: Giving up t.v. Posted by: Leman

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Put me in, coach
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Derek Maddox on Jun 28, 2007 3:21 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Perhaps the questions in the survey were a little more specific than this article indicates. If all you're talking about is changing the color of my skin, I'm good with even less than $10K. As long as I get to keep my education, work ethic and experience, and family, I'd be just as well off as I am now.

In my profession, with my company, no one cares what color you are. They only care about how skilled you are at the job you're hired to do, and how much profit they can make from your labor. White, black, purple with pink polka dots. They don't care.

If, on the other hand, you tell me that I've got to take up the socio-economic status of the average black American, I'll turn you down cold. Hell, I'd turn you down cold if you asked me to assume the socio-economic status of the average white American! I've worked too hard to get where I am, and have absolutely no interest in starting over. And don't give me the crap about whites starting out ahead of the game. My grandparents were dirt poor farmers in Mississippi, or union laborers. They all worked at least two jobs and saved every penny to help their kids, my parents, get a better start. I was only the second person in the entire family to ever graduate college (my father was first).

Work hard, work hard, work hard. Anyone can succeed in this country. Just ask the guy who was my BOSS for many years, who retired just last year. He's black.

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» LOL!!! Posted by: veggiegrrrl
» RE: Put me in, coach Posted by: mizani
» RE: Put me in, coach Posted by: juanpecan81
» RE: Put me in, coach Posted by: Leman
» The exception Posted by: Robba29
» RE: Put me in, coach Posted by: RDVSR

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an alternative interpretation
[Report this comment]
Posted by: EasterBunny on Jun 28, 2007 4:11 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
is that the whites didn't want to seem racist by saying they needed a million bucks or more to compensate them for "becoming black". it's a little insulting to tell someone that you would need a million bucks compensation for being them! i think the author is over-interpreting the data here.

and if you add "many" this statement from the article may be true:

"[many] White Americans suffer from a glaring ignorance about what it means to live as a black American."

but this study doesn't demonstrate that.

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3
[Report this comment]
Posted by: kepstein7777 on Jun 28, 2007 4:07 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
1. The research seems kind of lame, but the concept and sociological aspects are interesting. And I think it might kick off a good discussion.

2. The reparations question about the 5k appears to be rigged. All it means is that the average white person wouldn't mind cashing in on a frivolous lawsuit for something that happened to someone else a long time ago. What does that have to do with being black?...And go figure: "This is the same percentage of blacks today that support reparations for slave descendants." Hmmm...

3. It depends which black person I would be. Contrary to popular belief and interest-group politics, there are middle and upper-class blacks in this country. Would I like to be Michael Jordan, or George Foreman...or Jack and Jill black? In other words, you might have to refine the question to something like: Would you rather be black in the hood or white in a trailer park?...or something else that factors out class and income.

4. To make this a really interesting experiment, they should do a trading-places type of thing: be black/white for a week/month. They could even build a reality show around it, which would draw all kinds of controversy, which would help the ratings, and raise all kinds of money, some of which could be used for reparations.

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» 4 Posted by: benzene
» Internalized oppression anyone??? Posted by: psychochurch
» RE: Internalized oppression anyone??? Posted by: sterlingdave54

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And the Reason It's Bad to be Black Is???????????????
[Report this comment]
Posted by: edith on Jun 28, 2007 4:44 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Blacks have significantly lower income and wealth, higher levels of poverty and even shorter life spans, among many other disparities, compared to whites."

What is the implication here? That blacks have these problems because they are black, because they behave in negative ways, or because whites impose these deficiencies upon blacks? Let's cut out the cute inferences here.

There's a little too much in the know, wink, wink psychology here. When will
Alternet have the courage to publish an article aside from Earl Hutchinson's columns that reveals that much(not all) black woe is due to poor choices by blacks. A culture can be damaging as well as enobling.

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» It says a lot... Posted by: vangogh69

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Whites were slaves too...
[Report this comment]
Posted by: SekhmetsatRa on Jun 28, 2007 5:30 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
do descendents of white slaves get reparations? i asked this before... one of my ancestors was an Irish slave in the pre-revolutionary war period...

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» Awww......poor, Irish baby Posted by: sausage
» RE: Awww......poor, Irish baby Posted by: EasterBunny
» RE: Awww......poor, Irish baby Posted by: juanpecan81
» No dogs or Irish allowed Posted by: sausage
» COMPLETE Bullshit psychochurch Posted by: ekipnrut
» RE: Awww......poor, Irish baby Posted by: SekhmetsatRa
» By that logic Posted by: Boomerang
» Who's saying this rubbish? Posted by: yellow
» Actually, the Irish... Posted by: vangogh69
» Oh really? Posted by: ateo
» RE: Whites were slaves too... Posted by: SekhmetsatRa
» Reparations for the Irish Posted by: moflard
» RE: eparations for the Irish Posted by: morticia
» Thankyou (nm) Posted by: moflard
» RE: Whites were slaves too... Posted by: techphile

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A meaningless social study.
[Report this comment]
Posted by: HughScott on Jun 28, 2007 5:34 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The question asked of white subjects at Ohio State should have been, “How free would you feel as a black person?”

“Not much,” from my point of view as a Caucasian.

I can’t begin to imagine how difficult life would be for a black man in a white society where judgments of character are influenced by the color of one’s skin.

For black people in America, anonymity – a precious commodity to me -- is virtually unattainable in places where white people are the majority. How can anyone put a price on that?

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» Screwy rating Posted by: hagwind
» RE: A meaningless social study. Posted by: fibrowitch
» RE: A meaningless social study. Posted by: techphile

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Most Whites think like Replublicans when it comes to Blacks
[Report this comment]
Posted by: deapp on Jun 28, 2007 5:37 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There has never been more of a historical emotional matrix of poisonous experiences between two races in the world as the one between Blacks and Whites. The American Blacks had to force change even if it meant burning down their own surroundings in the 60's. But the government and racist terrorist had prepared Whites over many years to fear Blacks because,” they were violent and would attack White neighborhoods and rape their daughters after they finished burning down their own homes”, built such resentment in the minds of whites toward Blacks and their forced accomplishments. In the 70's I lived in a dormitory at USM next door to a White guy who tried to convince me that if Black people would have just waited, White people would have came around and granted freedoms to Blacks in the 60's. Foolishness! Blacks have spent the last 80+ years fighting to rebuild the infrastructure that was destroyed following slavery and continues to be attacked today by the Neonazicon Republicans. Blacks faced resistance when trying to start businesses (Blacks were usually lynched or their businesses burned down), improve education, (only hand me down books and very poor environments for learning), the educated were unable to be hired in cooperate America, so most Blacks after the 60’s went to work for the Government (in which they had worked hard to force change), but unable to advance once they got into the door. Many of these very things continue today. Now, I believe in reparations but for the many that are still alive and their families who suffered through the Jim Crow system, terrorist attacks on their Churches, Homes, businesses and quality of life. Only 35 years ago!!!!!! What Whites need to learn is this; Blacks can not advance unless they bring Whites with them but Whites can advance with out us. You have nothing to FEAR but FEAR itself. How many Whites would agree on reparations for the brutality and destruction that Jim Crow has caused over the resent decades?

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With yet another divisive cheap-shot article, Alternet --like FOX, is race baiting. Click.
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Centavo on Jun 28, 2007 5:50 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]

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» Oh please! Posted by: hagwind

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So what does this mean anyway?
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Posted by: hagwind on Jun 28, 2007 5:55 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm inclined to agree that white USians don't know what it's like to be black -- in general, privilege doesn't know what it's like to be less privileged, and often it doesn't want to know (one of the many perks of privilege is not having to acknowledge you're privileged) -- but drawing this conclusion from the questions asked? It had to have been obvious from the get-go that this was play money, that nothing was really at stake. And being deprived of TV is a realistic possibility, while being transformed into a black person is not.

The question wouldn't begin to get at my conscious or unconscious feelings on the subject. I've never owned a TV and haven't lived with one in more than 25 years. If you offered me a million dollars for real, I'd probably invite a TV into my life -- with the million bucks I could rent a bigger apartment where there'd be room for it. If you asked me how much you'd have to pay be to be black, my first question would be "How black?" I've been a woman all my life and for most of two decades I was fat: I know what it's like to be stereotyped, trashed, and ostracized because of my physical appearance, and you'd have to pay me plenty to get me to take on another visible characteristic that would prompt people to make and act on snap judgments about me. I never got busted for "driving while fat." Thank heavens for small favors. [Fe] If I could pass -- well, that wouldn't cost you so much.

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Stop making excuses!
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Poe on Jun 28, 2007 6:14 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I admit, I don't get the whole "black thing".

What I do get, though, is that people in this country are getting pretty fed up with getting blamed for the plight of a certain population that continually live an irresponsible lifestyle, choose to drop out of schools, choose to bring children into the world via "sperm donors", and choose, in many cases, to keep killing their own on inner city streets. Blacks in the inner city today, are doing more damage to themselves than slave owners from six generations ago.

The word racism today, has been hijacked by many of our black and white "leaders" for their own financial, political and social means, and has become nothing but a broken stick used to support an obnoxious, malevolent lifestyle that can't even be scrutinized from outside.

The real crime, is that Kings' Dream has become a reality for so many blacks, living a middle class and upper middle class lifestyle.

I wonder if they get the "black thing"?


Poe

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» RE: Stop making excuses! Posted by: anothername
» RE: Stop making excuses! Posted by: ladmeaux

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And the most obvious title award goes to...
[Report this comment]
Posted by: suprmark on Jun 28, 2007 6:23 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If we could understand what each other go through in life things would be a whole lot easier. But we can't. I don't know what it is like to be you, you don't know what it is like to be me. I won't ever have to fear menopause, women will never have to fear their testosterone producing region. I won't know what it's like to be black, brown, yellow, red, French Canadian, or Anglo Canadian (why only black was picked for this study is beyond me - there are other minorities too). They won't know what it's like to be me. They won't know what it's like to be each other.

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» Ah, proofreading... Posted by: suprmark

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More respect of issue
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Posted by: anothername on Jun 28, 2007 6:24 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The tone of the posts demonstrate the reason why the black/white issue remains a topic. My first reaction was that the survey could also be interepreted to mean that white people were not repulsed by the idea of being black. However, given the vast difference in dollar amounts cited, I would interpret the results as meaning that most people do not know what it means to be black in America, whereas they have an idea of what it means to be tied to television.

There is a heirarchical structure within the black community, just as there is within the white community. Artists, professionals, and laborers are all treated differently, regardless of skin color. There has also been heirachical levels created over various historical eras based on which group is in power. The current hostility about illegal immigrants has strong resonances with the hostility towards Irish immigrants in the 19th Century.

It has been relatively few years since blacks could vote without poll taxes and other obstacles. Regardless of how much money a person makes, if his skin is black, he would have struggled to find representation and power outside of a certain circle of like-skinned people. Thus, it is not fair to blame individual families for not pulling themselves out of poverty or lower middle-class existence. Besides, there are families, both black and white, who prefer to focus on family rather than on making more money. Unfortunately, in America, money talks regardless of skin color or ethnicity. We also have people who think it is appropriate to make death threats against presidential candidates merely because they are black.

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» RE: More respect of issue Posted by: djnoll
» RE: More respect of issue Posted by: techphile

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Minority Report
[Report this comment]
Posted by: RChenault on Jun 28, 2007 6:36 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Do you feel guilty, angry white posters?

Is that what makes you, despite all your progressive intelligence and education, so angrily deride racism as bogus or an excuse?

These past few months have been a real education for me. I've seen quite a bit of these postings in the recent months, and I have to wonder if seeing a positive black image *cough Obama* combined with a serious disaster that was exacerbated by governmental inaction *cough Katrina* has shined a little light into how much you pay, UNJUSTLY, for being born with black skin.

Despite the "I was born a poor white child" comments, black folks still aren't paid as much as whites for the same jobs and are denied housing based upon the color of their skin. We're still pulled over and searched, we're still jailed for longer and more frequently, and we're still discriminated against. Things have changed, but only enough for there to be neat little commentaries like this one, where white people can tell black people how they're doing.

I think there are organizers on this forum. Why don't you do as you have learned from your organizing background and ask actual black people? And don't cherrypick or use your own circle... go to some places that you're not comfortable being in (or some places that you just don't live... some of us are comfortable everywhere) and ask hard questions (hard for you, too) about what life is like on the other side of the color spectrum. Ask people about health care when you're black and underemployed. Ask people about talking to the police when you're black and living in the inner city. You'll have an idea, not the whole thing, but an idea about the black experience.

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» RE: Minority Report Posted by: EasterBunny
» RE: Minority Report Posted by: aerdrie
» RE: Minority Report Posted by: morticia
» RE: Minority Report Posted by: deapp
» RE: Minority Report Posted by: suprmark
» Black Privelege Posted by: suprmark
» RE: Minority Report Posted by: deapp

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more details on the study
[Report this comment]
Posted by: EasterBunny on Jun 28, 2007 6:40 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
this site had some more details on the studies, it's more complex than the alternet article suggests (no surprise there).

http://www.amren.com/mtnews/archives/2007/06/

"The researchers did a series of studies in which a total of 958 whites of different ages and from different parts of the country were asked variations of the same question: “How much should you be paid to continue to live the rest of your life as a black person?”

In most cases, the participants were told to imagine they were actually black, but had always passed for white. The imagined race change required no physical transformation, just a change in public status.

They were also asked how much they should be paid for giving up television, and how much they should be given to change their officially listed state residency (without having to move). These questions were asked, Mazzocco said, to compare what people requested for relatively trivial changes, like a new listed state residency, as compared to a more life-changing request, like giving up television.

Results suggest white people considered a race change as relatively trivial, along the lines of a change in official state residency, as opposed to the seemingly big sacrifice of giving up television.

In some of the studies, the researchers changed the scenario in order to learn more about what white Americans thought about the costs of racial disparities.

One issue with the previous scenario is that participants may minimize the disparities they would face as a black person, because they had always passed as white. So in one study, whites were told to imagine that they were about to be born as a random white person in America, but they were being offered a cash gift to be born as a random black person. Once again, white participants requested relatively small sums to make a life-long race-change. In addition, some were given a list of some of the costs of being black in America, such as the racial wealth disparity. The result was that whites in this latter scenario requested significantly higher amounts than those in the previous studies—about $500,000.

Finally, some participants were given a similar scenario except all references to blacks, whites and America were taken out. They were asked to imagine they were born into the fictional country of Atria, and were born either into the “majority” or “minority” population. They were given a list of the disadvantages that the minority population faced in Atria (which were identical to the real disadvantages faced by blacks in America). In this case, white participants in the study said they should be paid an average of $1 million to be born as a minority member in Atria.

“When you take it out of the black-white context, white Americans seem to fully appreciate the costs associated with the kinds of disparities that African Americans actually face in the United States,” Mazzocco said. “In this case, they asked for a million dollars, similar to what they want for giving up television.”

Mazzocco said blatant prejudice was not the reason for the findings. Results showed that whites who scored higher on a measure of racial prejudice did not answer significantly differently than others in the study."

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I'm saddened by the level of thoughtless, reflexive racism displayed by AlterNet readers...
[Report this comment]
Posted by: JoshM on Jun 28, 2007 6:44 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
To get some sense of the scope of it, you need only to compare the AlterNet responses to this article to the responses on the website where the article first was published (New American Media had picked it up from Diverse Issues in Higher Education http://www.diverseeducation.com/):

"These findings further reinforce those articulated by Michael K. Brown and other scholars in, Whitewashing Race: The Myth of the Color-Blind Society (University of California Press, 2003). The willed ignorance of white Americans about the continued structural inequality of race is reinforced by mainstream discourses which see “racism” as a thing of the past, and which therefore deem “talking about race” unnecessary. Challenging those discourses (with empirical/historical evidence) is central to any significant effort toward social justice in higher education, and all other U.S. institutions."

"IMO, whites do understand the disadvantages of being black. That’s why most of them don’t need much money for that. I think they just want to change our perspective on different races. If we can all just see that all of us are equal and not to think the superiority of our races then we don’t need to look for the disadvantages."

"Empirical data is important, but in my experience, it doesn’t change the debate. There have been study after study documenting the disparities in health access, educational access, treatment by various institutions and individuals, but they just don’t seem to sink in. I’ve come to believe that a certain level of wilfull ignorance pervades white thinking and response to any conversation on race, and it’s going to take more than data to shift that, it’s going to take changing the stakes to make race and racism a personal issue for them."

"I agree 100%... It does not sink in and it does not because of White Privilege. As long as this prevails in American sccieety, things will not change (or change so slowly that most of us will not see it!). Derrick Bell says it in his book “Faces at the Bottom of the Well. The Permanence of Racism.” I would recommend that “Code” read that book as well as others on the subject and even better yet subscribe to a periodical called “Race traitor”, whose motto is “Treason to Whiteness is loyalty to humanity”."

And so on. On commenter on that site does suggest response bias, but even s/he hastens to add: "This study, as far as this article reports, does not take response bias into account. Personally, someone *would* have to pay me $1 million to be born black. I am fully aware of how difficult it is for black people in America, no matter how hard they try, to live a life comparable to a white American. It sucks but it’s very true."

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» Reflexive racism Posted by: YogiBear

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If you buy into the notion that the measure of person is the content of his character...
[Report this comment]
Posted by: ABetterFuture on Jun 28, 2007 6:57 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...and not the color of his or her skin, then these results aren't all that surprising. Yes, some people apparently find this notion quite pollyanna, but I insist that it's one of the more civil places to begin.

A hundred C-bills to get over the initial shock of waking up with a darker tan, and maybe making a quick appointment with the Doc to make sure it wasn't skin cancer, but just a loony study? Sure, sign me up.

Along the spectrum of trivialities, this study apparently finds that race is ten times more trivial than duhTeeVee to a majority of the people (I refuse to use the author's segregationist tone) that were polled.

On the other hand, would this study have found that a majority of the people polled would demand hundreds of millions to alter their skin pigmentation--that would have indicated an irrational disdain, or implied that those people honestly believed that they were worth substantially more based solely on pigment. Of course, if your goal is race-baiting, you're a happy author regardless the results of any poll that pits slightly differentially pigmented folks against one another.

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Why so much denial
[Report this comment]
Posted by: daw13 on Jun 28, 2007 7:01 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Little white people have as little control over the fundamental processes of racism as do people of color. White people want to feel good about ourselves. It's hard to be happy when we know that we benefit from a rigged game. It's even harder when we know that we sell our souls for this privilege. We accept being bullies in exchance for being secure. Sad sad sad.

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» RE: Why so much denial Posted by: Logic's Edge

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Mos Def - Mr. Nigga
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Posted by: juanpecan81 on Jun 28, 2007 7:03 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Who is the cat eatin out on the town
And make the whole dining room turn they head round
(Mr Nigga, Nigga Nigga
He got the speakers in the trunk with the bass on crunk)
Who be ridin up in the highrise elevator
Other tenants who be prayin they ain't the new neighbor
(Mr Nigga, Nigga Nigga
They try to play him like a chump cause he got what they want)

He under thirty years old but already he's a pro
Designer trousers slung low ccause his pockets stay swoll'
Could afford to get up and be anywhere he go
V.I.P. at the club, backstage at the show
(Yes y'all) the best crib, the best clothes
Hottest whips on the road neck and wrists on froze (say word)
Checks with O's o-o-o-o-ohs
Straight all across the globe watch got three time-zones
Keep the digital phone up to his dome
Two assistants, two bank accounts, two homes
One problem; even with the O's on his check
The po-po stop him and show no respect
"Is there a problem officer?" Damn straight, it's called race
That motivate the jake (woo-woo) to give chase
Say they want you successful, but that ain't the case
You livin large, your skin is dark they flash a light in your face

Now, who is cat dining out on the town
Maitre'd wanna take a whole year to sit him down
(Mr Nigga, Nigga Nigga
He got the speakers in the trunk with the bass on crunk)
Now, who is the cat at Armani buyin wears
With the tourists who be askin him, do you work here?
(Mr Nigga, Nigga Nigga)
Nigga Nigga

(lines edited for space)
They say they want you successful, but then they make it stressful
You start keepin pace, they start changin up the tempo

Now, who is cat riding out on the town
State trooper wanna stop him in his ride, pat him down
(Mr Nigga, Nigga Nigga)
He got the speakers in the trunk with the bass on crunk
Now, who is the cat with the hundred dollar bill
They gotta send it to the back to make sure the shit is real
(Mr Nigga, Nigga Nigga)
Nigga Nigga.. Nigga

You can laugh and criticize Michael Jackson if you wanna
Woody Allen, molested and married his step-daughter
Same press kickin dirt on Michael's name
Show Woody and Soon-Yi at the playoff game, holdin hands
Sit back and just bug, think about that
Would he get that type of dap if his name was Woody Black?
O.J. found innocent by a jury of his peers
And they been fuckin with that nigga for last five years
Is it fair, is it equal, is it just, is it right?
Do you do the same shit when the defendent face is white?
If white boys doin it, well, it's success
When I start doin, well, it's suspect
Don't hate me, my folks is poor, I just got money
America's five centuries deep in cotton money
You see a lot of brothers caked up, yo straight up
It's new, y'all livin off of slave traders paper
But I'm a live though, yo I'm a live though
I'm puttin up the big swing for my kids yo
Got my mom the fat water-front crib yo
I'm a get her them pretty bay windows
I'm a cop a nice home to provide in
A safe environment for seeds to reside in
A fresh whip for my whole family to ride in
And if I'm still Mr Nigga, I won't find it suprisin

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» RE: Mos Def - Mr. Nigga Posted by: pito516

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Yep, racism is alive and well
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Posted by: redjenny on Jun 28, 2007 7:30 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You just have to read the comments on the study here to see that. Many people claim low IQ for black people for instance. I don't know about you, but to me those commenters confirm the study's results. They obviously have no idea what it is like to be disadvantaged because of skin colour.

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» RE: Yep, racism is alive and well Posted by: EasterBunny

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Poverty in rural America
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Posted by: zooeyhall on Jun 28, 2007 7:43 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I grew up in rural Nebraska in the 1960's, and believe me there was poverty in rural America--then and now. Then and now also it had nothing to do with race. My dad was a farm tenent as were many others in my community. We were white and still poor and living in substandard housing. At the exact time shows like "Green Acres" and "The Beverly Hillbillies" were running on tv and giving urban people a good yuck, we were living the reality and it wasn't so funny. Nobody was crying for us and saying "oh those poor white tenent farmers in Nebraska". Nobody worried about the poor housing, poor nutrition. My dad when he reached his eighties was almost toothless because he couldn't afford proper dental care when he needed it. A single kerosene stove to keep us warm on bitter midwest winter days. There were days when all Mom could make for dinner was spaghetti.

I think that articles like this that single out a specific race and cry and wail about the injustice are missing the point. Poverty is color blind. The powers-that-be don't give a rat's a#s about the color of the people they exploit. They don't care if they are black or white or yellow or martians, just so that they do the work cheaper than the people before.

I see alot of this "race boosterism" in academia. There are people who make money off of this sort of thing. I think there is a great deal of disconnect between some of these college academics and the real world.

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» RE: Poverty in rural America Posted by: ChrisSmith0077
» RE: Poverty in rural America Posted by: LeslieGem

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Francis
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Posted by: Francis on Jun 28, 2007 7:45 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The American media is no longer at liberty, in case you hadn't noticed, to broadcast the suffering of any group. It seems that such is now considered a Holocaust trademark infringement and is frowned upon by the eminences grises who control what Americans are allowed to see, hear, read, and learn at school. Public sympathy has been de facto outlawed.

Native Americans, African Americans, Palestinians, Muslims, Darfurians, no one is allowed air time to scream for help or to express their rage, lest the Neo-McCarthyists rise up to silence them.

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» Exactly! Posted by: mobile68
» Grow Up Already!! Posted by: yellow

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Stop Making Excuses: The Rebuttal
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Posted by: dlf on Jun 28, 2007 7:45 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You mean, like the excuses many Whites make when Blacks are promoted or when one of your own goes into a school and shoots up the place? The problem faced by many Whites is the inability to see the double standards that are a fact of life, not just in this country, but world wide. It is a fact that a Black person is more likely to face the death penality than a White person.

"In Black America, like any other non-monolithic culture, it is a combination of many factors. But, each year the National Urban League's State of Black America report illuminates the real facts and proposes solutions to address the issues.

The fact is according to the State of Black America's Equality Index; the economic divide that exists between Blacks and Whites is twenty percent wider than any other of the five indices. For example, the median net worth of the average African-American family is ten times less than the average white family, ($6,166 versus $67,000, respectively). This is largely due to the difference in home ownership, home equity values and income. Blacks own nearly 50 percent of their homes, while Whites own over 70 percent of their homes. But if you look inside the home ownership and net worth numbers, there is much more to the story."

White Enrollment Jumps at Historically Black Colleges

News & Notes, March 9, 2005 · What accounts for the for the recent surge in white enrollment at historically black colleges and universities? We look at one institution that is now mostly white, and discuss the diversity issue with Dwayne Ashley, president and CEO of the Thurgood Marshall Scholarship Fund, and with Joahanne Thomas-Smith, provost and senior vice president for academic and student affairs at Prairie View A&M.

We never see any coverage of this phenomena and it certainly seems that Whites don't want to talk about taking over HBCUs. That is probably because, if Whites had to acknowledge their rising enrollments in historically Black colleges and universities, they would not be able to use their existence as a weapon against Blacks. Just as many Whites refuse to acknowledge these colleges exist because Blacks were very limited in which White colleges they were able to go to for hundreds of years. I wonder how many Whites would want to attend college if a glass room was built especially to keep you away from the Black students? I know a man who attended University of Kansas, who had just that experience in the 1950's. Black failure is so much more acceptable, if the reasons are simply self induced. Again having this conversation with people who negate history is like having this conversation with the mentally challenged. The only difference is, the mentally challenged aren't able to function on a higher level.

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Missing The Bigger Picture
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Posted by: InsertNameHere on Jun 28, 2007 8:08 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Pointing out the 'Black' experience or the 'Brown' experience, 'Irish', 'Latino', 'Gay' or what-have-you is just talking around things. The common denominator is always the same, and it's two dirty words that never escape the lips of the mainstream media: Class Struggle.

We'll call it economic inequality if class struggle sounds to Marxist for you, but economics are only part of it, the other being who holds the positions of political power.

Until you create a true society of equals, the cycle will continue and articles like this will continue to focus on a microcosm. If a minority group manages to 'bootstrap' itself out of poverty and oppression, that's fine, problem solved, right? No. The ruling class has no trouble finding another 'nigger' to do their dirty work. In fact, in today's neo-liberal world, it's easier than ever.

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Bicycle riders and skateboarders understand
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Posted by: ScottP on Jun 28, 2007 8:22 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Virtually every day when I ride to work, at some point on one of the narrow stretches a car comes close to me. Often times there's something on the other side of the road like a garbage can or a post, and the driver will be blatantly closer to me than to the object. Why? Because they know the garbage can would scrape their paint, but if they hit me, they might just throw me in the hospital and be able to continue to work without getting caught and without a scratch. They figure the odds of getting caught (like the guy who killed my wife's brother on his bike) are slim, and we're not like real people, after all. Plus on more rare occasions someone will throw something at me, try to run me off the road, or try to push me over. And so there are a lot of Americans willing to kill a member of a different tribe (be it black, bicyclist, or Iraqi) for some minor convenience or feeling. Make whatever excuse you would like, but after you experience such cruelty first hand, talk about them being "not... mean and uncaring" doesn't cut it, they are that and worse.

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» Are you suicidal? Posted by: ateo

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Television
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Posted by: cbrislain on Jun 28, 2007 9:13 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think that it's true that, higher up the ladder, it's not terrible to be black. But otherwise, the disparity in treatment is unconscionable. Unfortunately, because Bill has a black Co-Worker, who is very articulate, and drives a BMW, then Bill believes that racism is over, because his co-worker stands for all things black. But in reality there is still a great deal of racial profiling that happens on the streets, projects, institutionally racist law enforcement, etc. To be poor, and to be black, is the absolute lowest form of poverty in our country.

As for TV, I don't own one, and nobody had to pay me a million dollars. I think it's no surprise that the person who is such a mindless spectator that television is worth a million dollars to them, wouldn't realize we still have racial issues.

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Condi Rice's "Black Experience" - is that understandable?
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Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Jun 28, 2007 9:42 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The notion that all black people in America share similar experiences and backgrounds is just nonsense. Some black people in the US are African citizens, who have a completely different set of experiences.

Some are from elitist families that have worked their way into the upper classes.

Some are from the poorest sectors of American society.

Trying to lump all these different people into a single category - you're all 'black', so you must be A, B, and C - is just plain stupid. Trying to do the same thing for 'whites' is also quite ridiculous.

The real divide in the US is over things like homeowners and renters. As the number of citizens who own land or a home decreases (thanks to the foreclosure racket), we can expect steeper and steeper class divides, and more and more gated communities.

Does 'equal rights' really mean nothing more than making sure that wealthy blacks have the same right to live in gated communities as wealthy whites do, in a society that has profound problems with wealth distribution?

The NAACP is politically acceptable - but would a 'National Association for the Advancement of POOR People" have a chance?

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Good God!
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Posted by: vangogh69 on Jun 28, 2007 9:59 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The cyber universe really brings out the racists doesn't it!? I'm impressed and had no idea so many frequented Alternet. You know, it's funny how whites can refuse to entertain the notion of reparations for blacks when they themselves, TODAY, benefit from the enslavement and policies against blacks, past & present. So long as whites entertain the myth that through their own "hard work and determination" they "made it," we'll never get anywhere in this discussion. White Priviledge is so ubiquitous that most whites don't even perceive of it, truly a sad state for the 21st century.

Being black is like a hell-on-Earth in the US. We're criminalized from birth to grave and expected to take the biggest degradation and insults and "move forward"; Never is the tragedy of the past acknowledged by those in power, lest they be forced to acknowledge how they continue to benefit from that tragedy today. And really, if you think we've "overcome all of that stuff from the past" I might remind you that Katrina wasn't so long ago and if you need proof that blacks have it hard and are expected to just die in the US, look no further than images from there.

That's it, I'm disgusted with some of you all on here and am moving on to a lighter subject now.

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» RE: Good God! Posted by: tjg1984

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Alternet and the left encourage racism
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Posted by: ateo on Jun 28, 2007 10:17 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Without the racist blacks of America and their self-imposed victimization to feed upon the Left would lose their stranglehold on the black vote. So it is imperative that the Left keep racism and race division a reality in America in order to secure certain demographics.

The Left and black racists blame every possible social ill on white males (always white MALES, it is not acceptable to blame women for ANYTHING). This has two effects, 1. it placates the millions of black racists in the U.S. by making them think they actually have a chance of receiving additional reparations ("affirmative action" is all the reparations you're going to get) 2. it decidedly drives any white male looking out for his best interests to the Republican party. After all, why vote for people who hate you? Why vote for people who don't want you to get an education, don't want you to make a decent living, and don't want you to own a home?

How else can the "race disparity" be resolved other than by reducing the number of white males that are college educated, high paid, and home owners? After all, America does not have unlimited resources so in order for person B to get what person A has it must be taken from person A. We see this already with the fact that white males make up something like 20% of college students. With the drop in college attendance and achievement by white males I have noticed an amusing trend - high paid young white males that don't have a college education. Rather than moving the pay and high skilled jobs towards women or elsewhere they have simply been taken by high school educated white males. While the women are off making 25 grand a year as a social worker with their psychology or sociology degree the high school educated men are making 45 as a PC technician, help desk support, or some well paid trade.

When the hatred of white males by the left is laid out so clearly as it is on Alternet in articles and comments such as this one it is little wonder that the vast majority of them vote for the Republicans. At least the Republicans will give you a fair shot at making something of yourself - the left will give every possible advantage in the world to "minorities" then, if you do somehow make it in this world they'll take what you have to the point of taking the food from your children's mouths in order to give further advantages to minorities. Such a disgusting ideology and despite my sympathy on many issues I find myself driven (not drawn, but driven) back to the Right by the fact that:

I don't hate myself
I don't hate white males
I like having a decent job
I like having a semi-fair shot at life in America
I want my children to have a semi-fair shot at life

This is all fine and quite normal really, politics in America is strictly divisive. The line in the sand is drawn and from what I gather the Left does not welcome "my kind." C'est la vie. See you on election day '08.

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» RE: quite a rant there Posted by: EasterBunny
» You are an idiot. Posted by: Robba29

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In the words of Cartman...
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Posted by: Mojoe on Jun 28, 2007 11:18 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
RACE WAAAAAARRRRRR!

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» RE: In the words of Cartman... Posted by: techphile

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White vs. Black
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Posted by: fcs25 on Jun 28, 2007 11:26 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's easy to blame others for your own faults isn't it.

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» RE: White vs. Black Posted by: adh

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Slavery and Institutional Racism and other Societal Factors
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Posted by: SEDGFLD on Jun 28, 2007 12:06 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
People complain about paying for slavery because they didn't participate. Whites have directly and indirectly benefitted from slavery even up until this day.
The benefits received from the institution of slavery included monetary, social and class benefits that slaves and their ancestors never got compensated for and are still waiting for that "equal" society that was promised that we've heard so much about.
Blacks weren't the equal benefactors of all of those government programs meant to help whites gain middle-class status, like housing loan programs and purchasing opporunities, G.I. bill for education and housing. Many of the practices to keep us from benefitting from these programs are still being used today. By the way, there were always more Whites than Blacks on welfare.
Blacks have been complaining about the state of educational opportunities for years and only got attention when whites complained.
Blacks complained about health care but only received attention when Whites realized the sad state of affairs with medical coverage and treatment.
Blacks complained about guns but only got attention when White children started getting shot and killed.
I could go on and on about the unequal benefits and attention received received by African Americans but doing research of legitimate and not self-serving materials would open people's eyes.
Not too many Whites complained about getting jobs that Blacks were at least as qualified. Not too many complained about the lack of educational dollars and resources going to majority non-white schools. As matter of fact, there was a move by this administration and some of its favorite members to reclassify Historically Black Colleges under Juvenile Jusice programs so they wouldn't get a share of the technological grant money Congress was giving up. Where were the cries of outrage from White America? It took Tavis Smiley to fight that injustice successfully. That's why he was fired by Bob Johnson at BET.
Whites didn't and don't complain about educational opportunities received that should have gone to non-white students. There's no need of pretending this didn't and doesn't happen. Also, affirmative action doesn't guarantee anything to specific person. It gives an opportunity for people to get their foot in the door. But, there are no complaints about Whites getting in schools, jobs or any other door because of family name, money or because someone knows someone with the power to help them. Now, who is most likely to have these types of connections? How many Whites have rejected these opportunities?
This country hasn't even officially apologized for the abomination that was slavery and its after effects. Morally, this shouldn't come down to money. This country goes out of its way to tell other countries todo justice for victims of wrongs. This country has also apologized and compensated Native Americans, Japanese Americans, and others regardless of adequacy of amount.

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» Welfare Posted by: adh

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How to reduce the stress of racisim
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Posted by: eosrk on Jun 28, 2007 1:30 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Once us blacks fully understand, from the homeless to the Oprahs of the world that this world is racist towards us, 90% of our stressors go away, just like that. Mine did, and I'm losing weight because of it, which is a good thing for me.

then when you put racisim in the US, stress goes almost completly away casue I use this issue, All my foremothers and forefathers were forced over here, chained to the bottom of slave ships, and were not even considered a full human being, thus is the reason why the Civil Rights Bill of 1964 was created.

And for the most part, it didn't help much there either. Though Opraph is one of the first female black billionaires, has her own show, channel, and pretty soon some stores, the Whites own the network she's on, the cable network her channel aires over, and has to get a permit from the city....run by the whites.....to build her store. She steps out of line, and she's history!!!

just like that!

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Parallel Societies: history verses experience
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Posted by: BlueBerry PickN on Jun 28, 2007 1:56 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
when we, as a North American collection of Peoples, recognize that there are a multiplicity of History... published, private & propagandized..

... then & only THEN... will we recognize that ETHICS & COMPASSION are our only uniting characteristics.

..that we all bleed red.



Spread Love...
... but wear the Glove!

BlueBerry Pick'n
can be found @
ThisCanadian
"We, two, form a multitude" ~ Ovid
==
"Silent Freedom is Freedom Silenced"

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Billy Bob
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Posted by: wjneill on Jun 28, 2007 3:01 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I understand very well two examples of the black experience:

A Hispanic woman and Vietnamese man were savagely murdered in Houston by five black youths. One has just been convicted of murder and sentenced to death.

A white couple were savagely murdered in Knoxville, Tennessee by five black youths. The accused are awaiting trial.

For reasons I do not know, neither Jesse Jackson nor Al Sharpton have seen fit to appear in Houston or Knoxville to visit the bereaved families.

Nor have these stories received national media coverage as would occured had a black couple been murdered in both cases.

Yeah, I understand very well.

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A distrubing trend in the u.s.-teaching edited history
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Posted by: mobile68 on Jun 28, 2007 3:37 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I remember in elementary and in high school having to always read about how the jews suffered in the holcaust damn near for a whole semester, but only to learn about African slavery and the Native American slaughter by europeans in amerikkka all in a week for the whole school years. I am a history buff, but it would had been nice to learn more about who I was, people who look like me, and where I came from when I was in school (I am an African American). Like the saying goes, "a tree that doesn't have roots cannot grow". Eventually, I did go on to read and learn more about my history and it has disturbed me ever since. Despite what you white folks think, racism is a mental illness.

It's soooo funny how the white x-tians, white jews, and white quasi-liberals can agree that African-Americans and Native Americans should not receive compensation for what their european ancestors did to totally destroy their cultures and societies, but yet, not even the kkk, is publicly complaining about how public u.s. tax dollars are still funding "reparations" for WHITE jews (who are still being paid by the u.k., swiss and german gov'ts also) for something that happened on european soil and over 70 years ago! AND they have holocaust museums all over the country that are federally funded and are considered federal branches of the u.s. gov't!

Click on these links and see how are your tax dollars being used to support Israel:

This is what US aid to Israel looks like

Racism by any other name

If any group that should have expansive museums in every state and in every major city it should be the Native Americans followed by the African Americans! That way anyone of Caucasian descent can see how those groups of people amazingly survived 500+ years of oppression dished out by their european caucasian ancestors and how the caucasians are benefiting from this oppression and repression of brown and black peoples to this day and also understand how the u.s. exports this racism around the world, since those who control the media industries will not print the truth in the elementary and high school outdated history books!

If the Native Americans would have immigration policies put into place 500+ years ago, we would not be having this discussion today.

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» Don't hold your breath Posted by: ateo
» hey ateo the white supremist! Posted by: mobile68

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F all this nonsense...===THE FREAKIN' BILL IS DEAD!!!====
[Report this comment]
Posted by: ekipnrut on Jun 28, 2007 5:02 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That's what I'm Talkin' bout'..and if you must ask, "What Bill?"
Whatever...you aren't enough in the know to know..more..now
....DOF'nA..are you feelin' this ,all you punk ass 'liberals' .......Mwoooooowaaaaaahaaaahaaa. Now, having said that, I urge all Blacks and so called blacks on this site to unite and begin to undertake ,in this moment of opportunity, the task that OBVIOUSLY begs to be done as a matter of political and economic survival strategy. The quid pro quo..nunc pro tunc..
that should be engineered is apparent.
It does involve a bit more than shooting your traps off on
Alternet. Although ,done right, it could result in being a topic of
intense interest to Alternet amongst many others six months henceforth. Hint: the FIRST STEP would be to prepare a proper
econometric impact study , particularly given the amount of money involved. We need to think out of the box and our
inner visions attributed to ourselves not 'liberal' interlopers.
BTW It's called RWMDS..Racist White Male Dementia Syndrome and I- ekipnrut- claim intellectual priority for first identifying this as what ought be formally catalogued as a
DSM-IV disorder classification. As for symptoms? Consult posts (supra) :O)

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Ambiguities Abound
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Posted by: parmenicleitus on Jun 28, 2007 5:18 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If this article is representative of the "series of studies", I would have to conclude it is meaningless due to its ambiguities. Here is the abstract:

http://journals.cambridge.org/action/display
Abstract?fromPage=online&aid=1018408

1. What is a "white American"? Who qualifies for this distinction?

2. How is "white privilege" defined? Are "white Americans" like racing greyhounds let out of the gates at the same moment, or are there huge disparities amongst them? This is an important question in regards to assertions of "privilege".

3. How were the 958 "white Americans" chosen?


4. Were these 958 "white Americans" representative of "white Americans" in general? By looking at the abstract, I would have to infer the participants were all students given the criteria for "student status". This, in turn, would make me question the "age variation".


5. How was the "series of studies" advertised?

6. Given that there were "variations" of the main question, according to the abstract, how were these variations presented and who was chosen for which variation?

7. What were all the questions asked? How were they written or asked? What verbiage was used?

8. How were the questions on the surveys contextualized?

9. How is "reparations" defined in context of the study? There is an analogy presented, but no definition of what is meant by the term?

These questions, as well as others, remain unanswered either in the article or the abstract. As presented in either context, the "findings" remain largely meaningless.

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What the heck is going on here at Alternet?
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Posted by: rjs on Jun 28, 2007 6:40 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I just left the Earl Ofari Hutchinson:
" Us Poor Black Folk" article threads and bumped into another one. Is this all black people can write about? Or is this author a confused white Republican?

I am just about ready to never read Alternet again if they don't clean up this "We are poor mis-treated Afro American" racist garbage. This gets old. Write something of interest or write nothing and leave a blank "WHITE" page if you have too. If that really irritates you, leave the space "BLACK" and empty on the page for all I care. But quit with the racism articles. This site is going down hill fast.

Thank you.

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No Rant, No Manifesto, Just Some Observations/Ponderings...
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Posted by: grumble-bum on Jun 28, 2007 7:07 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
1. The neighborhood I live in (located in a mid-sized Midwestern city, on the outside edge of the classiest section of town) consists of the following mix of skin-tones/cultures/ethnicities, in descending order; Whites & American Blacks (tie), African Blacks, Southeast Asians, & Hispanics. I rent a small apartment in a pretty nice historic building, which consumes a little under 1/2 of my monthly income. I'm pretty damn White, but I was raised to appreciate other shades of Humans. My darker neighbors mostly live in equally nice buildings, although I don't pretend to know what percentage of their income this devours. None of us mix much, other than peacefully sharing our common spaces. But, I wonder, do people really mix much in the all-White outlying suburbs? I feel comfortable & "safe" here, but would I feel the same way if I lived in an all-(American) Black portion of the city? Would my African Black neighbors, for that matter?

2. I was taking a smoke-break at work recently, when two Black guys walked by. The younger of the two (early 20's) was loudly complaining that "all White people think we all look alike!" He was really pissed off, but his elder companion (mid 60's) was just kind of zoning him out- he'd obviously already considered that particular gripe a few times. Or, perhaps he had noticed my White self sitting there & was trying to be polite? I found myself wondering what the reaction might be if I went around making broad statements about Black people, right in front of them. Maybe the kid didn't "see" me- maybe I was "invisible" to him, like boring wallpaper.

3. I attend an A.A. meeting every week that is evenly split between Whites & Blacks. It's a small meeting, & I've gotten to know many of the other members pretty well. While it's amazing what the shared experiences among us reveal about our basic similarities as Humans (& the comfort level that this engenders), I can't help but notice that we almost always group ourselves by shade when choosing our seats.

4. I just re-read James Baldwin's essay, "The Fire Next Time". Here was a Black man who possessed a better working knowledge of "White" English than many Whites of his day (& our present day, for sure), & yet was against "assimilation". Ironically, I would guess that the average Black (or White) teenager reading him today would dismiss him as a total sell-out, based purely on his exacting prose! Living in the social turbulence of the early 1960's, he seemed certain that the "Race Problem" would be solved (either peacefully or violently) within his lifetime. Sadly, many of the scalpel-like observations he made then about both races are still valid today. Will this self-perpetuating lunacy ever stop?

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When the Left sucks the African-American community dry for political capital, it will...
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Posted by: Jak_dah_rippah on Jun 28, 2007 7:57 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
move on to the Hispanic American community after throwing the African-American community "under the bus"

It is truly despicable the way the divisive Democrats have played different segments of American society against each other for self-serving political gain.

It is about time that the moral, hardworking, and patriotic African-American community reject the patronizing and insulting tactics of the Democrats whose "stated" policies supposedly beneficial to African-Americans have only led to dependency, despair, and poverty.

The power lies within.

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Most dangerous racists in this country are Democrats.
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Posted by: Jak_dah_rippah on Jun 28, 2007 8:01 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Who constantly play "white against black" for political gain.

What have the failed and self-serving policies of the Democrat Party given to Black America since the Republic Congress passed Civil Rights legislation in 1964?

It is time that (1) Black America jettison the Democrats and (2) Conservative America embrace a largely hard working, religious, and patriotic voting bloc that has been ignored/neglected for to long among Republican/Conservative leadership.

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» Right on! Posted by: slydad
» Link here Posted by: ateo
» RE: ight on! Posted by: techphile
» Good reply . . . Posted by: slydad
» Now that is amazing! Posted by: slydad
» Diversity? Posted by: slydad
» That's pretty good. Posted by: slydad
» P.S. Posted by: slydad
» BTW Posted by: slydad
» See . . . now I like this. Posted by: slydad
» Try this Posted by: slydad

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Who sold Africa into slavery?
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Posted by: White middleclass male on Jun 28, 2007 11:52 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Oh that’s right it was black Africans. Africans are the ones that sold their neighbors into slavery. Whites just drove up to the drive thru window and placed their order. Its funny I never hear anyone demand slavery reparations from Africans.

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» African slave profits Posted by: moflard
» Little point Posted by: moflard
» RE: Little point Posted by: pito516
» Y'all please Posted by: JCrowe

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The Reactions To This Article Are Too Typical
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Posted by: MarcGarvey on Jun 29, 2007 6:23 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And then I remember that Alternet, like many 'Left' sites on the net are overwhelmingly white. And yeah, yeah, I know that whites will say that is irrelevant. I know. Race doesn't matter.

But put this story on an 90% black forum and watch the difference in responses.

And yeah, I know, blacks are too sensitive, paranoid and irrational. It's the same story everytime. Study after study reveals similar things and again and again, whites (not all but generally) say that the study is 'flawed' and that black people are irrational.

This is the same (but high tech) version of racism from over a hundred years ago.

Basically it says that black people are incapable of accurately interpreting their reality but whites are capable of accurately interpreting black reality.

Unsurprising but always amazing.

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rural, white, and had disadvantages, but moved on
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Posted by: zooeyhall on Jun 29, 2007 7:13 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I grew up in rural Nebraska in the 1960's, and believe me there was poverty in rural America--then and now. Then and now also it had nothing to do with race. My dad was a farm tenent as were many others in my community. We were white and still poor and living in substandard housing. At the exact time shows like "Green Acres" and "The Beverly Hillbillies" were running on tv and giving urban people a good yuck, we were living the reality and it wasn't so funny. Nobody was crying for us and saying "oh those poor white tenent farmers in Nebraska". Nobody worried about the poor housing, poor nutrition. My dad when he reached his eighties was almost toothless because he couldn't afford proper dental care when he needed it. A single kerosene stove to keep us warm on bitter midwest winter days. There were days when all Mom could make for dinner was spaghetti.

I think that articles like this that single out a specific race and cry and wail about the injustice are missing the point. Poverty is color blind. The powers-that-be don't give a rat's a#s about the color of the people they exploit. They don't care if they are black or white or yellow or martians, just so that they do the work cheaper than the people before.

I see alot of this "race boosterism" in academia. There are people who make money off of this sort of thing. I think there is a great deal of disconnect between some of these college academics and the real world.

I guess what I am saying is that as a white youth in a poor rural environment, I didn't spend the rest of my life sitting on my hands and bitchin' about my disadvantages and blaming someone else. There were five kids in my family, and we each got a college degree. Not one of us has ever been in trouble with the law, taken one cent in welfare, or even collected a single unemployment check.

Yes it has been tough, and I still run into a veiled discrmination and what I call a "cultural racism" from urban people who have actually told me that rural people are somehow not as bright as urban folks. But I and my siblings never fell into trap, exemplified by this article, of blaming others for our problems.

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» Question... Posted by: vangogh69

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I'll happly switch, if I can still be the same me under my skin
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Posted by: fibrowitch on Jun 29, 2007 7:28 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am the daughter of a welder, and a housewife. My father worked two jobs so my mother could stay home and raise us. I and two of my brothers went to college, on our own dime, as our parents did not have enough to pay our way.

I was told to keep good grades in school, to do well in life, and to stay away from gangs, drugs, and not get pregnant until marriage. I have two degrees, own the house I live in and have the respect of my community.

If I get to keep all that, I will switch colors for free.

What I will not do, is switch places with the type of person I hear about in the news every day. The woman who did not finish school, with several kids, by different men, who can't read or write, has gang connections, and blames the 'whites' for holding her back.

So ask me the correct question, not if I will change color, but if I will change my life. It is the choices a person makes, not the color of their skin.

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After reading these comments, I am glad that I am not Black.
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Posted by: sarahk on Jun 29, 2007 8:49 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am shocked at the anger and disgust toward Black people in the above comments. Once again, I am glad that I was born White. I like that as a White person, other White people make positive assumptions about me. Because of the color of my skin, people assume that I am well-educated, have good sexual morals, don't use drugs and have never lived on welfare.
During college, my Black roomate did fit all the above criteria, while I did not. It was funny that White people assumed the worst about her: that she was a "token" scholarship student and that her family lived on welfare, etc... Meanwhile, it was my family that was on food stamps and welfare for years, not hers, and it was she who was a more diligent student than I.

Before you keep hating:
Remember, white women, who make up the majority of people on welfare, who collect most of the food stamp and welfare money that is doled out. Remember that the vast majority of drugs that come into this country are consumed by white people. Why is there many more blacks arrested for drugs? Becuase white people are 4 times less likely to have their vehicle searched for drugs than black people.

Also remember that DNA genetic tests are showing that most White people in the US do have a recent black ancestor. You probably have more in common with Blacks than you think.

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» RE: Everybody puke at ateo! Posted by: mobile68
» And speaking of drugs... Posted by: vangogh69

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It's almost funny!
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Tacticsb on Jun 29, 2007 2:08 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
After reading many of the posts on this forum and seeing so much anger and ridicule being directed at blacks and anyone seen as identifying with their situation I almost have to laugh my ass off! Why you may ask? Because come election time many of these same folks who know reality better than blacks, who think that blacks are just stupid or what ever else, will be the first people to expect blacks to back the dems and help their side win. My question is when will blacks just walk away from these idiot false friends? All it takes is for the black vote to drop just a few points for the dems and many of their strategies will lie in ruin, and that to me would be a great thing! No matter how you slice it blind loyalty with no reward is a fools errand, so if blacks waking up happens to make others who depend upon the dems suffer a little more that is fine with me. After all, should we all not look after our own first and foremost?!

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HAHAHA, I Have Been Living "Black" All My Life
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Posted by: hole11 on Jun 29, 2007 4:05 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And I constantly feel oppressed. I constantly try to avoid police. Going out alone or at night is just out of the question. I could be next in line but somehow I will be last out the door. People mess up my food orders constantly and while everyone else is eating I have to wait for my food to arrive.

Job? Sorry, I am the wrong color for that. I would be better off black.

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Whites don't comprehend what it's like to be black
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Posted by: moflard on Jun 29, 2007 5:05 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Well D'uhhhh!

It seems to me a strange study to carry out - although quite perfect for academia. Take knowledge that any fool can see in the world around them (that whites don't really appreciate what it is to be black) and go out and "prove" it. How much did these "researchers" get in funding I wonder. Put it this way, if it was easy to put yourself in someone elses head and worldview, do you think our history would have been quite so violent?

Yes there are blacks that have managed to do well, and congrats to them, but then, there's a few people made it to the top of Everest, doesn't mean it's easy or even possible for many.

Yes I hear the complaints from some whites of blacks giving in to a poisonous culture and there is some truth in this - BUT this culture doesn't exist in a vacuum. It exists within the shadows cast by it's own history, and the dominant (white) culture that surrounds it. Being black must be a bit like running a marathon with a 250lb weight tied to your leg. You can do it, but it sure as hell isn't easy, and a great deal more difficult than for those without the weight. And sometimes you must wonder what the hell you're racing for anyway.

As for the reparations, well I gave my views as an Irishman earlier, but it seems a red herring. Let Blacks have equal access to the benefits of the economy their ancestors helped build, and maybe they won't bother with the reparations that seem to annoy so many of us whites.

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To: Tacticsb, sarahk, mobile68, vangogh69and other posters who appear to be 'thinking'
[Report this comment]
Posted by: ekipnrut on Jun 30, 2007 11:31 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
people: This is a little 'off topic'...but apparently the AIDS
situation , globally, is far ,far ,far the F worse than even I thought ......and I think of myself as "informed'!!!!!!
The LEADING cause of Death in American Black women in the 25 to 34 y.0. age cohort is AIDS...is this sinking the F in?????????
In Ukraine..the 'White' bread basket of 'Mother Russia', an AIDS mortality rate of 30% in the same age cohort by 2014 is projected. You guys/gals may want to devote as much time
and energy to this nightmare pandemic as you..and I...have given to some of the cyber 'Jerry Springer show' commentator
'race baiting WWF smackdowns'; like some Alternet articles.
Check out the following two references........
RETHINK
AIDS Among U.S. Women Is on the Rise [ posted on Alternet]
By Jeff Fleischer, Women's eNews. Posted June 26, 2007.

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» You make my point for me!! Posted by: yellow

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Oh, C'MON people...There's a bigger fight looming ahead
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Posted by: veggiegrrrl on Jun 30, 2007 2:29 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Let's end this black versus white hate debate, unite, and focus on Americans vs. Illegals.

(just kidding)

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(aging and increasingly racist) JAPS for Jesus........:O)
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Posted by: ekipnrut on Jun 30, 2007 2:44 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Foreigner...Long,Long, way from Home......

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» LOL!! Posted by: veggiegrrrl
» This JAP would love to be black Posted by: veggiegrrrl

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I'm assuming this is a typo
[Report this comment]
Posted by: susanhathaway on Jul 1, 2007 7:09 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Your article refers to "reparations struggles for groups wrongfully interred during wars."

Shouldn't that be "interned"? Imprisoned, rather than buried?

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Misunderstanding?
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Posted by: SaraO on Jul 1, 2007 7:44 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Perhaps the respondents feared the implications of stating that they would have to be paid so much money to be Black - stating such a thing can be construed as racist, despite it being an anonymous survey. Guilt plays a major part in survey taking, it is a psychological fact regarding the nature of collecting such information from people.

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So what's new?
[Report this comment]
Posted by: kmart35 on Jul 2, 2007 10:56 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think most of us spend our life in denial don't we? We don't like to realize there is racism in our country. I spent a small portion of time on Medicaid when I was in college & had my son unexpectedly as a graduate college student (I was married though) and found that an interesting/eye-opening experience. I had some African-American roomates in college, but I still probably don't have as much understanding as I should.

In college, there were students that insisted there was no discrimination towards women on the campus although there has never been a woman college president at the college even when it was originally a college exclusively for women! As if there has never been a woman capable enough to run the college. Discrimination is all around us, and I guess it is easier for us to go through life with our blinders on.

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The Great liberal saviors are gonna fix blacks now
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Posted by: OhioPatriot on Jul 2, 2007 5:22 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You don't even try to force your programmed minds to think anymore, just spout out half ass lame ass propaganda numbers that prop up your American hating white and Jewish hating prdjudice tendencies.
If anyone of you actually spent time in a ghetto you would know that the reasons are substance abuse and poor or no parenting.
Go to a prison and you will see the result of substance abuse and poor parenting.
Go to the graveyard and see the reults of substance abuse and bad parenting.

If I were black I believe I would tell you to shut the fuck up, all your doing is causing the next generation of young blacks to believe that all thier problems are out of thier control and up to white people to fix because they are somehow inadequate and unresponsible.
The problems blacks experience are not unique, the denial of responsibility, fed by outsiders who want to keep the black vote by convincing blacks that they were born victims and only the white liberals in this country can fix them is the only obstacle that is unique.
Every liberal spawned attempt since the 50s to help black america has only weakened the black society and disolved black families. It is the institutionalizing of blacks by a political agenda in need of votes and determined to get them at the cost of black america that makes me sick.
If I was black I would say "don't you dare make excuses for me when I stumble'
"don't you dare undermine my authority by telling my children that bad behavior is not thier fault"
"Don't you ever try to assume you are so powerfull that you control my destiny through a fading history'

Thats what I think

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Bit of a light-weight article....
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Posted by: tommy2004 on Jul 3, 2007 8:07 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm sorry but this is a light-weight article... The skimping over the results of the survey and questions asked suggest complete manipulation of the interviewees or results..... It seems to me obvious that it is not made clear to the respondent that in 'changing their colour' they would also be subjected to the finanicial pressures and prujudices suffered by a large proportion of the African American Community... In fact if anything I think it shows that people see skin colour as an irrelevance taken as a stand alone issue which is surely a good thing......

If the author were to clarify that the respondents were told in taking on this change it would be from birth, in black communities and with the services offered in these areas I would take the results more seriously.... If you just say 'how much money would you take to become black' it is completely bl00dy meaningless and you can read what the hell you want into it......

Shame I don't disagree it's an issue worth addressing but lets have some research from grown ups please!

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Wow..
[Report this comment]
Posted by: daksha on Jul 3, 2007 10:43 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Do you begin by addressing the article or the replies.

The question of reparations for example. In my opinion a terrible idea. Blacks were not the only slaves in this country and arguably American Indians should step to the head of the line if reparations are to be paid. We stole from them what we promised they could keep and what they own by right of treaty. Not to mention the genoicide we perpetrated. Or the dehumanization, slavery or germ warfare. Wounded Knee, the Black Hills and blankets deliberately infested with measles come to mind. Heck, the buffalo soldier was complicit in Indian genocide.

That would be an easier fix..just givem them back what they are owed. Blacks living on land owed the Indians are no more interested in that then anyone else.

If reparations are to be paid why not seek them from the perpetrators that captured and sold them into slavery? Without their greed and willingness to sell members of other African tribes the instituion never gets off the ground. Some attention is paid to the middle men but little to the perps. Would the African nations be wiling to step up? Have they been asked by the same parties seeking reparations now?

Shouldn't black descendents of black slave owners be excluded? Shouldn't descendents of free blacks be excluded? What about light skinned blacks who have, incidentally, been discriminated against by dark skin blacks and accused of not being black?

Looking at black America as a monolith is a mistake. So too is assuming all black people live in ghettoes or that all black people share the same values. Or the quaint notion that refusal to take responsibility is a common element in the black community. Heck, we have a President that does not want any one to be accountable for their actions. Why should elements of the black community not have the same opportunity.

If you ask me if I would take a sum of money to become black if I could live in Atlanta and have the same family my reply is yes. I would say no if I had to live in the ghettoes of NYC. I would say no if I had to live on the Rosebud Sioux reservation as an Indian but yes if I could live elsewhere as an Indian. I would say no to being a Latino if I had to live as a fruit picker but yes if I could live in a different situation.

One of my problems is the stereotyping both in the article and the replies.

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» Right On. Posted by: yellow

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"Whites" Just Don't Get the Minority Experience
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Posted by: artie on Jul 3, 2007 2:53 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A Late Comment....
Had the survey utilized the variable "Minority," I suspect the results would have been the same. Those in the US who are reared within recognition as a "White person," never seem to understand from the inside what it would be like to exists in recognition as "non-White." I say "in the US" to emphasize the point that Americans never seem to appreciate how local their 'definitions' of race are. The definitions are NOT coextensive with those in other countries: Brazil, France, Hawaii, the Phillipines, etc: a person recognized as 'Black' or 'White' in the US might NOT be so recognized in Brazil or France - parochially typical of we Americans to think that our notions are the fulcrum of the World. I say "understand from the inside" because so-called Whites have all the data, stats, 'objective' understanding that would more than suffice to understand the evil of race-inspired concepts and policies. However, despite it all, they leap at the opportunity to tell you that "they have Black friends," or "some of their best friends are minorities," .... My goodness! when will it end? My research keeps intimating that our dealings with Earth, with the specious male-female dichotomy, with the specious concept of race, are all of a piece. Perhaps, the end will come when Earth is no longer habitable: that would resolve our divisions by default - there will be no humans left to divide against themselves....

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Until white people give up their addiction to white privilege or “whitefare”…
[Report this comment]
Posted by: mobile68 on Jul 3, 2007 10:38 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
there will always be this great schism in Amerikka greater than the great earthquake fault line in Calif. Compassion for anyone else who are not like them requires some degree of selflessness, not a common attribute to folks who are accustomed to the "me-first" high self-esteem world of white privilege. When I say whitefare, I mean those whites who are below corporate amerikka.

Most working whites, blue collar, technical, service or whatever, are nonpolitical, except in an election year. They put up flags and patriotic symbols because it seems like the right thing to do because everybody else does. As long as white Americans have that belief that Bush is safe, the world is in trouble. They just can't shed this hubris of the curse of being better than the rest of the world for no good reason. There is something pathetic about this world view. It’s like people of color in the u.s. are addressed as minorities, Hispanics, Asian-amerikkan, Hatian-amerikkan, African-amerikkan, etc in the media, while whites are branded as Amerikkan. There is the Amerikkkan on top and the rest of the world who is envious and plotting to steal their freedom. Traditionally, we can count on working white Americans to go off in a homicidal swarm to "defend our way of life," whenever our leaders or when a white woman say, “a black man whistled at me!” declare their little “gated” communities to be threatened.

Whites in this country have been instructed by birth to stand on the necks of the blacks by any means necessary. Why? Their mentality is: To subject ourselves to lose maintaining control over a group of people who makes money for us as slaves either on the plantation or in the prison system, is to lose our whitefare.
Whites are told by their corporate masters: If you lift your foot off of the blacks necks for a second, the repercussions would be catastrophic. They could:
-Want to repair all the damage that was done to Africa, take back and control all the oil, gold, and diamond fields and return it to a prosperous continent for all Africans.
-In turn, that will mean a huge loss of tax revenue, disruption of the world financial markets and the European economy, and billions of consumer dollars.
-If they figure out that it was truly our ancestors who robbed their ancestors of their identity as a people, were stripped of their mother tongues, traditional religions and original cultures, destabilized their social structures, did everything we could to break their spirit, set one against another, and demoralize them as human beings while forcing European language, religion and culture upon them, they would want revenge and reparations like the jews and Japanese.
If we lose control of all that, then we blue collar and Appalachian whites will become the new slaves and are would not be considered white any longer. The horror!!

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Alternet Comments:

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Giving up television is a hardship?
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Logic's Edge on Jun 28, 2007 12:06 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I thought viewership has been in a tailspin these days.

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Being white...
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Posted by: Temporary on Jun 28, 2007 12:10 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
is like living in gods candy store;no matter how much you steal, it's always OK!


Being black on the other hand is like living in hell;you screw up once, and you'll be whipped so much you wont remember your own name by the time it's over!

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» RE: Being white... Posted by: scvile
» RE: Being white... Posted by: kimbari
» RE: Being white... Posted by: mobile68
» RE: How does the cop know you are poor? Posted by: sterlingdave54
» RE: Being white... Posted by: luffy28
» RE: Being white... Posted by: perri6
» She's probably also rich. Posted by: yellow
» RE: Being white... Posted by: fibrowitch

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Giving up t.v.
[Report this comment]
Posted by: algodees on Jun 28, 2007 2:42 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
last July was the best thing I have ever done and it is as good as getting $1M. Why do we have so much trouble putting ourselves in another persons shoes? I guess we just aren't paying attention and can't be bothered to really consider others.

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» RE: Giving up t.v. Posted by: Leman

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Put me in, coach
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Posted by: Derek Maddox on Jun 28, 2007 3:21 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Perhaps the questions in the survey were a little more specific than this article indicates. If all you're talking about is changing the color of my skin, I'm good with even less than $10K. As long as I get to keep my education, work ethic and experience, and family, I'd be just as well off as I am now.

In my profession, with my company, no one cares what color you are. They only care about how skilled you are at the job you're hired to do, and how much profit they can make from your labor. White, black, purple with pink polka dots. They don't care.

If, on the other hand, you tell me that I've got to take up the socio-economic status of the average black American, I'll turn you down cold. Hell, I'd turn you down cold if you asked me to assume the socio-economic status of the average white American! I've worked too hard to get where I am, and have absolutely no interest in starting over. And don't give me the crap about whites starting out ahead of the game. My grandparents were dirt poor farmers in Mississippi, or union laborers. They all worked at least two jobs and saved every penny to help their kids, my parents, get a better start. I was only the second person in the entire family to ever graduate college (my father was first).

Work hard, work hard, work hard. Anyone can succeed in this country. Just ask the guy who was my BOSS for many years, who retired just last year. He's black.

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» LOL!!! Posted by: veggiegrrrl
» RE: Put me in, coach Posted by: mizani
» RE: Put me in, coach Posted by: juanpecan81
» RE: Put me in, coach Posted by: Leman
» The exception Posted by: Robba29
» RE: Put me in, coach Posted by: RDVSR

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an alternative interpretation
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Posted by: EasterBunny on Jun 28, 2007 4:11 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
is that the whites didn't want to seem racist by saying they needed a million bucks or more to compensate them for "becoming black". it's a little insulting to tell someone that you would need a million bucks compensation for being them! i think the author is over-interpreting the data here.

and if you add "many" this statement from the article may be true:

"[many] White Americans suffer from a glaring ignorance about what it means to live as a black American."

but this study doesn't demonstrate that.

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3
[Report this comment]
Posted by: kepstein7777 on Jun 28, 2007 4:07 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
1. The research seems kind of lame, but the concept and sociological aspects are interesting. And I think it might kick off a good discussion.

2. The reparations question about the 5k appears to be rigged. All it means is that the average white person wouldn't mind cashing in on a frivolous lawsuit for something that happened to someone else a long time ago. What does that have to do with being black?...And go figure: "This is the same percentage of blacks today that support reparations for slave descendants." Hmmm...

3. It depends which black person I would be. Contrary to popular belief and interest-group politics, there are middle and upper-class blacks in this country. Would I like to be Michael Jordan, or George Foreman...or Jack and Jill black? In other words, you might have to refine the question to something like: Would you rather be black in the hood or white in a trailer park?...or something else that factors out class and income.

4. To make this a really interesting experiment, they should do a trading-places type of thing: be black/white for a week/month. They could even build a reality show around it, which would draw all kinds of controversy, which would help the ratings, and raise all kinds of money, some of which could be used for reparations.

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» 4 Posted by: benzene
» Internalized oppression anyone??? Posted by: psychochurch
» RE: Internalized oppression anyone??? Posted by: sterlingdave54

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And the Reason It's Bad to be Black Is???????????????
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Posted by: edith on Jun 28, 2007 4:44 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Blacks have significantly lower income and wealth, higher levels of poverty and even shorter life spans, among many other disparities, compared to whites."

What is the implication here? That blacks have these problems because they are black, because they behave in negative ways, or because whites impose these deficiencies upon blacks? Let's cut out the cute inferences here.

There's a little too much in the know, wink, wink psychology here. When will
Alternet have the courage to publish an article aside from Earl Hutchinson's columns that reveals that much(not all) black woe is due to poor choices by blacks. A culture can be damaging as well as enobling.

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» It says a lot... Posted by: vangogh69

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Whites were slaves too...
[Report this comment]
Posted by: SekhmetsatRa on Jun 28, 2007 5:30 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
do descendents of white slaves get reparations? i asked this before... one of my ancestors was an Irish slave in the pre-revolutionary war period...

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» Awww......poor, Irish baby Posted by: sausage
» RE: Awww......poor, Irish baby Posted by: EasterBunny
» RE: Awww......poor, Irish baby Posted by: juanpecan81
» No dogs or Irish allowed Posted by: sausage
» COMPLETE Bullshit psychochurch Posted by: ekipnrut
» RE: Awww......poor, Irish baby Posted by: SekhmetsatRa
» By that logic Posted by: Boomerang
» Who's saying this rubbish? Posted by: yellow
» Actually, the Irish... Posted by: vangogh69
» Oh really? Posted by: ateo
» RE: Whites were slaves too... Posted by: SekhmetsatRa
» Reparations for the Irish Posted by: moflard
» RE: eparations for the Irish Posted by: morticia
» Thankyou (nm) Posted by: moflard
» RE: Whites were slaves too... Posted by: techphile

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A meaningless social study.
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Posted by: HughScott on Jun 28, 2007 5:34 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The question asked of white subjects at Ohio State should have been, “How free would you feel as a black person?”

“Not much,” from my point of view as a Caucasian.

I can’t begin to imagine how difficult life would be for a black man in a white society where judgments of character are influenced by the color of one’s skin.

For black people in America, anonymity – a precious commodity to me -- is virtually unattainable in places where white people are the majority. How can anyone put a price on that?

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» Screwy rating Posted by: hagwind
» RE: A meaningless social study. Posted by: fibrowitch
» RE: A meaningless social study. Posted by: techphile

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Most Whites think like Replublicans when it comes to Blacks
[Report this comment]
Posted by: deapp on Jun 28, 2007 5:37 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There has never been more of a historical emotional matrix of poisonous experiences between two races in the world as the one between Blacks and Whites. The American Blacks had to force change even if it meant burning down their own surroundings in the 60's. But the government and racist terrorist had prepared Whites over many years to fear Blacks because,” they were violent and would attack White neighborhoods and rape their daughters after they finished burning down their own homes”, built such resentment in the minds of whites toward Blacks and their forced accomplishments. In the 70's I lived in a dormitory at USM next door to a White guy who tried to convince me that if Black people would have just waited, White people would have came around and granted freedoms to Blacks in the 60's. Foolishness! Blacks have spent the last 80+ years fighting to rebuild the infrastructure that was destroyed following slavery and continues to be attacked today by the Neonazicon Republicans. Blacks faced resistance when trying to start businesses (Blacks were usually lynched or their businesses burned down), improve education, (only hand me down books and very poor environments for learning), the educated were unable to be hired in cooperate America, so most Blacks after the 60’s went to work for the Government (in which they had worked hard to force change), but unable to advance once they got into the door. Many of these very things continue today. Now, I believe in reparations but for the many that are still alive and their families who suffered through the Jim Crow system, terrorist attacks on their Churches, Homes, businesses and quality of life. Only 35 years ago!!!!!! What Whites need to learn is this; Blacks can not advance unless they bring Whites with them but Whites can advance with out us. You have nothing to FEAR but FEAR itself. How many Whites would agree on reparations for the brutality and destruction that Jim Crow has caused over the resent decades?

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With yet another divisive cheap-shot article, Alternet --like FOX, is race baiting. Click.
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Centavo on Jun 28, 2007 5:50 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]

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» Oh please! Posted by: hagwind

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So what does this mean anyway?
[Report this comment]
Posted by: hagwind on Jun 28, 2007 5:55 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm inclined to agree that white USians don't know what it's like to be black -- in general, privilege doesn't know what it's like to be less privileged, and often it doesn't want to know (one of the many perks of privilege is not having to acknowledge you're privileged) -- but drawing this conclusion from the questions asked? It had to have been obvious from the get-go that this was play money, that nothing was really at stake. And being deprived of TV is a realistic possibility, while being transformed into a black person is not.

The question wouldn't begin to get at my conscious or unconscious feelings on the subject. I've never owned a TV and haven't lived with one in more than 25 years. If you offered me a million dollars for real, I'd probably invite a TV into my life -- with the million bucks I could rent a bigger apartment where there'd be room for it. If you asked me how much you'd have to pay be to be black, my first question would be "How black?" I've been a woman all my life and for most of two decades I was fat: I know what it's like to be stereotyped, trashed, and ostracized because of my physical appearance, and you'd have to pay me plenty to get me to take on another visible characteristic that would prompt people to make and act on snap judgments about me. I never got busted for "driving while fat." Thank heavens for small favors. [Fe] If I could pass -- well, that wouldn't cost you so much.

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Stop making excuses!
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Posted by: Poe on Jun 28, 2007 6:14 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I admit, I don't get the whole "black thing".

What I do get, though, is that people in this country are getting pretty fed up with getting blamed for the plight of a certain population that continually live an irresponsible lifestyle, choose to drop out of schools, choose to bring children into the world via "sperm donors", and choose, in many cases, to keep killing their own on inner city streets. Blacks in the inner city today, are doing more damage to themselves than slave owners from six generations ago.

The word racism today, has been hijacked by many of our black and white "leaders" for their own financial, political and social means, and has become nothing but a broken stick used to support an obnoxious, malevolent lifestyle that can't even be scrutinized from outside.

The real crime, is that Kings' Dream has become a reality for so many blacks, living a middle class and upper middle class lifestyle.

I wonder if they get the "black thing"?


Poe

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» RE: Stop making excuses! Posted by: anothername
» RE: Stop making excuses! Posted by: ladmeaux

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And the most obvious title award goes to...
[Report this comment]
Posted by: suprmark on Jun 28, 2007 6:23 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If we could understand what each other go through in life things would be a whole lot easier. But we can't. I don't know what it is like to be you, you don't know what it is like to be me. I won't ever have to fear menopause, women will never have to fear their testosterone producing region. I won't know what it's like to be black, brown, yellow, red, French Canadian, or Anglo Canadian (why only black was picked for this study is beyond me - there are other minorities too). They won't know what it's like to be me. They won't know what it's like to be each other.

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» Ah, proofreading... Posted by: suprmark

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More respect of issue
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Posted by: anothername on Jun 28, 2007 6:24 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The tone of the posts demonstrate the reason why the black/white issue remains a topic. My first reaction was that the survey could also be interepreted to mean that white people were not repulsed by the idea of being black. However, given the vast difference in dollar amounts cited, I would interpret the results as meaning that most people do not know what it means to be black in America, whereas they have an idea of what it means to be tied to television.

There is a heirarchical structure within the black community, just as there is within the white community. Artists, professionals, and laborers are all treated differently, regardless of skin color. There has also been heirachical levels created over various historical eras based on which group is in power. The current hostility about illegal immigrants has strong resonances with the hostility towards Irish immigrants in the 19th Century.

It has been relatively few years since blacks could vote without poll taxes and other obstacles. Regardless of how much money a person makes, if his skin is black, he would have struggled to find representation and power outside of a certain circle of like-skinned people. Thus, it is not fair to blame individual families for not pulling themselves out of poverty or lower middle-class existence. Besides, there are families, both black and white, who prefer to focus on family rather than on making more money. Unfortunately, in America, money talks regardless of skin color or ethnicity. We also have people who think it is appropriate to make death threats against presidential candidates merely because they are black.

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» RE: More respect of issue Posted by: djnoll
» RE: More respect of issue Posted by: techphile

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Minority Report
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Posted by: RChenault on Jun 28, 2007 6:36 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Do you feel guilty, angry white posters?

Is that what makes you, despite all your progressive intelligence and education, so angrily deride racism as bogus or an excuse?

These past few months have been a real education for me. I've seen quite a bit of these postings in the recent months, and I have to wonder if seeing a positive black image *cough Obama* combined with a serious disaster that was exacerbated by governmental inaction *cough Katrina* has shined a little light into how much you pay, UNJUSTLY, for being born with black skin.

Despite the "I was born a poor white child" comments, black folks still aren't paid as much as whites for the same jobs and are denied housing based upon the color of their skin. We're still pulled over and searched, we're still jailed for longer and more frequently, and we're still discriminated against. Things have changed, but only enough for there to be neat little commentaries like this one, where white people can tell black people how they're doing.

I think there are organizers on this forum. Why don't you do as you have learned from your organizing background and ask actual black people? And don't cherrypick or use your own circle... go to some places that you're not comfortable being in (or some places that you just don't live... some of us are comfortable everywhere) and ask hard questions (hard for you, too) about what life is like on the other side of the color spectrum. Ask people about health care when you're black and underemployed. Ask people about talking to the police when you're black and living in the inner city. You'll have an idea, not the whole thing, but an idea about the black experience.

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» RE: Minority Report Posted by: EasterBunny
» RE: Minority Report Posted by: aerdrie
» RE: Minority Report Posted by: morticia
» RE: Minority Report Posted by: deapp
» RE: Minority Report Posted by: suprmark
» Black Privelege Posted by: suprmark
» RE: Minority Report Posted by: deapp

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more details on the study
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Posted by: EasterBunny on Jun 28, 2007 6:40 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
this site had some more details on the studies, it's more complex than the alternet article suggests (no surprise there).

http://www.amren.com/mtnews/archives/2007/06/

"The researchers did a series of studies in which a total of 958 whites of different ages and from different parts of the country were asked variations of the same question: “How much should you be paid to continue to live the rest of your life as a black person?”

In most cases, the participants were told to imagine they were actually black, but had always passed for white. The imagined race change required no physical transformation, just a change in public status.

They were also asked how much they should be paid for giving up television, and how much they should be given to change their officially listed state residency (without having to move). These questions were asked, Mazzocco said, to compare what people requested for relatively trivial changes, like a new listed state residency, as compared to a more life-changing request, like giving up television.

Results suggest white people considered a race change as relatively trivial, along the lines of a change in official state residency, as opposed to the seemingly big sacrifice of giving up television.

In some of the studies, the researchers changed the scenario in order to learn more about what white Americans thought about the costs of racial disparities.

One issue with the previous scenario is that participants may minimize the disparities they would face as a black person, because they had always passed as white. So in one study, whites were told to imagine that they were about to be born as a random white person in America, but they were being offered a cash gift to be born as a random black person. Once again, white participants requested relatively small sums to make a life-long race-change. In addition, some were given a list of some of the costs of being black in America, such as the racial wealth disparity. The result was that whites in this latter scenario requested significantly higher amounts than those in the previous studies—about $500,000.

Finally, some participants were given a similar scenario except all references to blacks, whites and America were taken out. They were asked to imagine they were born into the fictional country of Atria, and were born either into the “majority” or “minority” population. They were given a list of the disadvantages that the minority population faced in Atria (which were identical to the real disadvantages faced by blacks in America). In this case, white participants in the study said they should be paid an average of $1 million to be born as a minority member in Atria.

“When you take it out of the black-white context, white Americans seem to fully appreciate the costs associated with the kinds of disparities that African Americans actually face in the United States,” Mazzocco said. “In this case, they asked for a million dollars, similar to what they want for giving up television.”

Mazzocco said blatant prejudice was not the reason for the findings. Results showed that whites who scored higher on a measure of racial prejudice did not answer significantly differently than others in the study."

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I'm saddened by the level of thoughtless, reflexive racism displayed by AlterNet readers...
[Report this comment]
Posted by: JoshM on Jun 28, 2007 6:44 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
To get some sense of the scope of it, you need only to compare the AlterNet responses to this article to the responses on the website where the article first was published (New American Media had picked it up from Diverse Issues in Higher Education http://www.diverseeducation.com/):

"These findings further reinforce those articulated by Michael K. Brown and other scholars in, Whitewashing Race: The Myth of the Color-Blind Society (University of California Press, 2003). The willed ignorance of white Americans about the continued structural inequality of race is reinforced by mainstream discourses which see “racism” as a thing of the past, and which therefore deem “talking about race” unnecessary. Challenging those discourses (with empirical/historical evidence) is central to any significant effort toward social justice in higher education, and all other U.S. institutions."

"IMO, whites do understand the disadvantages of being black. That’s why most of them don’t need much money for that. I think they just want to change our perspective on different races. If we can all just see that all of us are equal and not to think the superiority of our races then we don’t need to look for the disadvantages."

"Empirical data is important, but in my experience, it doesn’t change the debate. There have been study after study documenting the disparities in health access, educational access, treatment by various institutions and individuals, but they just don’t seem to sink in. I’ve come to believe that a certain level of wilfull ignorance pervades white thinking and response to any conversation on race, and it’s going to take more than data to shift that, it’s going to take changing the stakes to make race and racism a personal issue for them."

"I agree 100%... It does not sink in and it does not because of White Privilege. As long as this prevails in American sccieety, things will not change (or change so slowly that most of us will not see it!). Derrick Bell says it in his book “Faces at the Bottom of the Well. The Permanence of Racism.” I would recommend that “Code” read that book as well as others on the subject and even better yet subscribe to a periodical called “Race traitor”, whose motto is “Treason to Whiteness is loyalty to humanity”."

And so on. On commenter on that site does suggest response bias, but even s/he hastens to add: "This study, as far as this article reports, does not take response bias into account. Personally, someone *would* have to pay me $1 million to be born black. I am fully aware of how difficult it is for black people in America, no matter how hard they try, to live a life comparable to a white American. It sucks but it’s very true."

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» Reflexive racism Posted by: YogiBear

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If you buy into the notion that the measure of person is the content of his character...
[Report this comment]
Posted by: ABetterFuture on Jun 28, 2007 6:57 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...and not the color of his or her skin, then these results aren't all that surprising. Yes, some people apparently find this notion quite pollyanna, but I insist that it's one of the more civil places to begin.

A hundred C-bills to get over the initial shock of waking up with a darker tan, and maybe making a quick appointment with the Doc to make sure it wasn't skin cancer, but just a loony study? Sure, sign me up.

Along the spectrum of trivialities, this study apparently finds that race is ten times more trivial than duhTeeVee to a majority of the people (I refuse to use the author's segregationist tone) that were polled.

On the other hand, would this study have found that a majority of the people polled would demand hundreds of millions to alter their skin pigmentation--that would have indicated an irrational disdain, or implied that those people honestly believed that they were worth substantially more based solely on pigment. Of course, if your goal is race-baiting, you're a happy author regardless the results of any poll that pits slightly differentially pigmented folks against one another.

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Why so much denial
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Posted by: daw13 on Jun 28, 2007 7:01 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Little white people have as little control over the fundamental processes of racism as do people of color. White people want to feel good about ourselves. It's hard to be happy when we know that we benefit from a rigged game. It's even harder when we know that we sell our souls for this privilege. We accept being bullies in exchance for being secure. Sad sad sad.

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» RE: Why so much denial Posted by: Logic's Edge

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Mos Def - Mr. Nigga
[Report this comment]
Posted by: juanpecan81 on Jun 28, 2007 7:03 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Who is the cat eatin out on the town
And make the whole dining room turn they head round
(Mr Nigga, Nigga Nigga
He got the speakers in the trunk with the bass on crunk)
Who be ridin up in the highrise elevator
Other tenants who be prayin they ain't the new neighbor
(Mr Nigga, Nigga Nigga
They try to play him like a chump cause he got what they want)

He under thirty years old but already he's a pro
Designer trousers slung low ccause his pockets stay swoll'
Could afford to get up and be anywhere he go
V.I.P. at the club, backstage at the show
(Yes y'all) the best crib, the best clothes
Hottest whips on the road neck and wrists on froze (say word)
Checks with O's o-o-o-o-ohs
Straight all across the globe watch got three time-zones
Keep the digital phone up to his dome
Two assistants, two bank accounts, two homes
One problem; even with the O's on his check
The po-po stop him and show no respect
"Is there a problem officer?" Damn straight, it's called race
That motivate the jake (woo-woo) to give chase
Say they want you successful, but that ain't the case
You livin large, your skin is dark they flash a light in your face

Now, who is cat dining out on the town
Maitre'd wanna take a whole year to sit him down
(Mr Nigga, Nigga Nigga
He got the speakers in the trunk with the bass on crunk)
Now, who is the cat at Armani buyin wears
With the tourists who be askin him, do you work here?
(Mr Nigga, Nigga Nigga)
Nigga Nigga

(lines edited for space)
They say they want you successful, but then they make it stressful
You start keepin pace, they start changin up the tempo

Now, who is cat riding out on the town
State trooper wanna stop him in his ride, pat him down
(Mr Nigga, Nigga Nigga)
He got the speakers in the trunk with the bass on crunk
Now, who is the cat with the hundred dollar bill
They gotta send it to the back to make sure the shit is real
(Mr Nigga, Nigga Nigga)
Nigga Nigga.. Nigga

You can laugh and criticize Michael Jackson if you wanna
Woody Allen, molested and married his step-daughter
Same press kickin dirt on Michael's name
Show Woody and Soon-Yi at the playoff game, holdin hands
Sit back and just bug, think about that
Would he get that type of dap if his name was Woody Black?
O.J. found innocent by a jury of his peers
And they been fuckin with that nigga for last five years
Is it fair, is it equal, is it just, is it right?
Do you do the same shit when the defendent face is white?
If white boys doin it, well, it's success
When I start doin, well, it's suspect
Don't hate me, my folks is poor, I just got money
America's five centuries deep in cotton money
You see a lot of brothers caked up, yo straight up
It's new, y'all livin off of slave traders paper
But I'm a live though, yo I'm a live though
I'm puttin up the big swing for my kids yo
Got my mom the fat water-front crib yo
I'm a get her them pretty bay windows
I'm a cop a nice home to provide in
A safe environment for seeds to reside in
A fresh whip for my whole family to ride in
And if I'm still Mr Nigga, I won't find it suprisin

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» RE: Mos Def - Mr. Nigga Posted by: pito516

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Yep, racism is alive and well
[Report this comment]
Posted by: redjenny on Jun 28, 2007 7:30 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You just have to read the comments on the study here to see that. Many people claim low IQ for black people for instance. I don't know about you, but to me those commenters confirm the study's results. They obviously have no idea what it is like to be disadvantaged because of skin colour.

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» RE: Yep, racism is alive and well Posted by: EasterBunny

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Poverty in rural America
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Posted by: zooeyhall on Jun 28, 2007 7:43 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I grew up in rural Nebraska in the 1960's, and believe me there was poverty in rural America--then and now. Then and now also it had nothing to do with race. My dad was a farm tenent as were many others in my community. We were white and still poor and living in substandard housing. At the exact time shows like "Green Acres" and "The Beverly Hillbillies" were running on tv and giving urban people a good yuck, we were living the reality and it wasn't so funny. Nobody was crying for us and saying "oh those poor white tenent farmers in Nebraska". Nobody worried about the poor housing, poor nutrition. My dad when he reached his eighties was almost toothless because he couldn't afford proper dental care when he needed it. A single kerosene stove to keep us warm on bitter midwest winter days. There were days when all Mom could make for dinner was spaghetti.

I think that articles like this that single out a specific race and cry and wail about the injustice are missing the point. Poverty is color blind. The powers-that-be don't give a rat's a#s about the color of the people they exploit. They don't care if they are black or white or yellow or martians, just so that they do the work cheaper than the people before.

I see alot of this "race boosterism" in academia. There are people who make money off of this sort of thing. I think there is a great deal of disconnect between some of these college academics and the real world.

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» RE: Poverty in rural America Posted by: ChrisSmith0077
» RE: Poverty in rural America Posted by: LeslieGem

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Francis
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Posted by: Francis on Jun 28, 2007 7:45 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The American media is no longer at liberty, in case you hadn't noticed, to broadcast the suffering of any group. It seems that such is now considered a Holocaust trademark infringement and is frowned upon by the eminences grises who control what Americans are allowed to see, hear, read, and learn at school. Public sympathy has been de facto outlawed.

Native Americans, African Americans, Palestinians, Muslims, Darfurians, no one is allowed air time to scream for help or to express their rage, lest the Neo-McCarthyists rise up to silence them.

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» Exactly! Posted by: mobile68
» Grow Up Already!! Posted by: yellow

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Stop Making Excuses: The Rebuttal
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Posted by: dlf on Jun 28, 2007 7:45 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You mean, like the excuses many Whites make when Blacks are promoted or when one of your own goes into a school and shoots up the place? The problem faced by many Whites is the inability to see the double standards that are a fact of life, not just in this country, but world wide. It is a fact that a Black person is more likely to face the death penality than a White person.

"In Black America, like any other non-monolithic culture, it is a combination of many factors. But, each year the National Urban League's State of Black America report illuminates the real facts and proposes solutions to address the issues.

The fact is according to the State of Black America's Equality Index; the economic divide that exists between Blacks and Whites is twenty percent wider than any other of the five indices. For example, the median net worth of the average African-American family is ten times less than the average white family, ($6,166 versus $67,000, respectively). This is largely due to the difference in home ownership, home equity values and income. Blacks own nearly 50 percent of their homes, while Whites own over 70 percent of their homes. But if you look inside the home ownership and net worth numbers, there is much more to the story."

White Enrollment Jumps at Historically Black Colleges

News & Notes, March 9, 2005 · What accounts for the for the recent surge in white enrollment at historically black colleges and universities? We look at one institution that is now mostly white, and discuss the diversity issue with Dwayne Ashley, president and CEO of the Thurgood Marshall Scholarship Fund, and with Joahanne Thomas-Smith, provost and senior vice president for academic and student affairs at Prairie View A&M.

We never see any coverage of this phenomena and it certainly seems that Whites don't want to talk about taking over HBCUs. That is probably because, if Whites had to acknowledge their rising enrollments in historically Black colleges and universities, they would not be able to use their existence as a weapon against Blacks. Just as many Whites refuse to acknowledge these colleges exist because Blacks were very limited in which White colleges they were able to go to for hundreds of years. I wonder how many Whites would want to attend college if a glass room was built especially to keep you away from the Black students? I know a man who attended University of Kansas, who had just that experience in the 1950's. Black failure is so much more acceptable, if the reasons are simply self induced. Again having this conversation with people who negate history is like having this conversation with the mentally challenged. The only difference is, the mentally challenged aren't able to function on a higher level.

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Missing The Bigger Picture
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Posted by: InsertNameHere on Jun 28, 2007 8:08 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Pointing out the 'Black' experience or the 'Brown' experience, 'Irish', 'Latino', 'Gay' or what-have-you is just talking around things. The common denominator is always the same, and it's two dirty words that never escape the lips of the mainstream media: Class Struggle.

We'll call it economic inequality if class struggle sounds to Marxist for you, but economics are only part of it, the other being who holds the positions of political power.

Until you create a true society of equals, the cycle will continue and articles like this will continue to focus on a microcosm. If a minority group manages to 'bootstrap' itself out of poverty and oppression, that's fine, problem solved, right? No. The ruling class has no trouble finding another 'nigger' to do their dirty work. In fact, in today's neo-liberal world, it's easier than ever.

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Bicycle riders and skateboarders understand
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Posted by: ScottP on Jun 28, 2007 8:22 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Virtually every day when I ride to work, at some point on one of the narrow stretches a car comes close to me. Often times there's something on the other side of the road like a garbage can or a post, and the driver will be blatantly closer to me than to the object. Why? Because they know the garbage can would scrape their paint, but if they hit me, they might just throw me in the hospital and be able to continue to work without getting caught and without a scratch. They figure the odds of getting caught (like the guy who killed my wife's brother on his bike) are slim, and we're not like real people, after all. Plus on more rare occasions someone will throw something at me, try to run me off the road, or try to push me over. And so there are a lot of Americans willing to kill a member of a different tribe (be it black, bicyclist, or Iraqi) for some minor convenience or feeling. Make whatever excuse you would like, but after you experience such cruelty first hand, talk about them being "not... mean and uncaring" doesn't cut it, they are that and worse.

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» Are you suicidal? Posted by: ateo

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Television
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Posted by: cbrislain on Jun 28, 2007 9:13 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think that it's true that, higher up the ladder, it's not terrible to be black. But otherwise, the disparity in treatment is unconscionable. Unfortunately, because Bill has a black Co-Worker, who is very articulate, and drives a BMW, then Bill believes that racism is over, because his co-worker stands for all things black. But in reality there is still a great deal of racial profiling that happens on the streets, projects, institutionally racist law enforcement, etc. To be poor, and to be black, is the absolute lowest form of poverty in our country.

As for TV, I don't own one, and nobody had to pay me a million dollars. I think it's no surprise that the person who is such a mindless spectator that television is worth a million dollars to them, wouldn't realize we still have racial issues.

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Condi Rice's "Black Experience" - is that understandable?
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Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Jun 28, 2007 9:42 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The notion that all black people in America share similar experiences and backgrounds is just nonsense. Some black people in the US are African citizens, who have a completely different set of experiences.

Some are from elitist families that have worked their way into the upper classes.

Some are from the poorest sectors of American society.

Trying to lump all these different people into a single category - you're all 'black', so you must be A, B, and C - is just plain stupid. Trying to do the same thing for 'whites' is also quite ridiculous.

The real divide in the US is over things like homeowners and renters. As the number of citizens who own land or a home decreases (thanks to the foreclosure racket), we can expect steeper and steeper class divides, and more and more gated communities.

Does 'equal rights' really mean nothing more than making sure that wealthy blacks have the same right to live in gated communities as wealthy whites do, in a society that has profound problems with wealth distribution?

The NAACP is politically acceptable - but would a 'National Association for the Advancement of POOR People" have a chance?

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Good God!
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Posted by: vangogh69 on Jun 28, 2007 9:59 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The cyber universe really brings out the racists doesn't it!? I'm impressed and had no idea so many frequented Alternet. You know, it's funny how whites can refuse to entertain the notion of reparations for blacks when they themselves, TODAY, benefit from the enslavement and policies against blacks, past & present. So long as whites entertain the myth that through their own "hard work and determination" they "made it," we'll never get anywhere in this discussion. White Priviledge is so ubiquitous that most whites don't even perceive of it, truly a sad state for the 21st century.

Being black is like a hell-on-Earth in the US. We're criminalized from birth to grave and expected to take the biggest degradation and insults and "move forward"; Never is the tragedy of the past acknowledged by those in power, lest they be forced to acknowledge how they continue to benefit from that tragedy today. And really, if you think we've "overcome all of that stuff from the past" I might remind you that Katrina wasn't so long ago and if you need proof that blacks have it hard and are expected to just die in the US, look no further than images from there.

That's it, I'm disgusted with some of you all on here and am moving on to a lighter subject now.

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» RE: Good God! Posted by: tjg1984

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Alternet and the left encourage racism
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Posted by: ateo on Jun 28, 2007 10:17 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Without the racist blacks of America and their self-imposed victimization to feed upon the Left would lose their stranglehold on the black vote. So it is imperative that the Left keep racism and race division a reality in America in order to secure certain demographics.

The Left and black racists blame every possible social ill on white males (always white MALES, it is not acceptable to blame women for ANYTHING). This has two effects, 1. it placates the millions of black racists in the U.S. by making them think they actually have a chance of receiving additional reparations ("affirmative action" is all the reparations you're going to get) 2. it decidedly drives any white male looking out for his best interests to the Republican party. After all, why vote for people who hate you? Why vote for people who don't want you to get an education, don't want you to make a decent living, and don't want you to own a home?

How else can the "race disparity" be resolved other than by reducing the number of white males that are college educated, high paid, and home owners? After all, America does not have unlimited resources so in order for person B to get what person A has it must be taken from person A. We see this already with the fact that white males make up something like 20% of college students. With the drop in college attendance and achievement by white males I have noticed an amusing trend - high paid young white males that don't have a college education. Rather than moving the pay and high skilled jobs towards women or elsewhere they have simply been taken by high school educated white males. While the women are off making 25 grand a year as a social worker with their psychology or sociology degree the high school educated men are making 45 as a PC technician, help desk support, or some well paid trade.

When the hatred of white males by the left is laid out so clearly as it is on Alternet in articles and comments such as this one it is little wonder that the vast majority of them vote for the Republicans. At least the Republicans will give you a fair shot at making something of yourself - the left will give every possible advantage in the world to "minorities" then, if you do somehow make it in this world they'll take what you have to the point of taking the food from your children's mouths in order to give further advantages to minorities. Such a disgusting ideology and despite my sympathy on many issues I find myself driven (not drawn, but driven) back to the Right by the fact that:

I don't hate myself
I don't hate white males
I like having a decent job
I like having a semi-fair shot at life in America
I want my children to have a semi-fair shot at life

This is all fine and quite normal really, politics in America is strictly divisive. The line in the sand is drawn and from what I gather the Left does not welcome "my kind." C'est la vie. See you on election day '08.

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» RE: quite a rant there Posted by: EasterBunny
» You are an idiot. Posted by: Robba29

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In the words of Cartman...
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Mojoe on Jun 28, 2007 11:18 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
RACE WAAAAAARRRRRR!

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» RE: In the words of Cartman... Posted by: techphile

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White vs. Black
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Posted by: fcs25 on Jun 28, 2007 11:26 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's easy to blame others for your own faults isn't it.

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» RE: White vs. Black Posted by: adh

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Slavery and Institutional Racism and other Societal Factors
[Report this comment]
Posted by: SEDGFLD on Jun 28, 2007 12:06 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
People complain about paying for slavery because they didn't participate. Whites have directly and indirectly benefitted from slavery even up until this day.
The benefits received from the institution of slavery included monetary, social and class benefits that slaves and their ancestors never got compensated for and are still waiting for that "equal" society that was promised that we've heard so much about.
Blacks weren't the equal benefactors of all of those government programs meant to help whites gain middle-class status, like housing loan programs and purchasing opporunities, G.I. bill for education and housing. Many of the practices to keep us from benefitting from these programs are still being used today. By the way, there were always more Whites than Blacks on welfare.
Blacks have been complaining about the state of educational opportunities for years and only got attention when whites complained.
Blacks complained about health care but only received attention when Whites realized the sad state of affairs with medical coverage and treatment.
Blacks complained about guns but only got attention when White children started getting shot and killed.
I could go on and on about the unequal benefits and attention received received by African Americans but doing research of legitimate and not self-serving materials would open people's eyes.
Not too many Whites complained about getting jobs that Blacks were at least as qualified. Not too many complained about the lack of educational dollars and resources going to majority non-white schools. As matter of fact, there was a move by this administration and some of its favorite members to reclassify Historically Black Colleges under Juvenile Jusice programs so they wouldn't get a share of the technological grant money Congress was giving up. Where were the cries of outrage from White America? It took Tavis Smiley to fight that injustice successfully. That's why he was fired by Bob Johnson at BET.
Whites didn't and don't complain about educational opportunities received that should have gone to non-white students. There's no need of pretending this didn't and doesn't happen. Also, affirmative action doesn't guarantee anything to specific person. It gives an opportunity for people to get their foot in the door. But, there are no complaints about Whites getting in schools, jobs or any other door because of family name, money or because someone knows someone with the power to help them. Now, who is most likely to have these types of connections? How many Whites have rejected these opportunities?
This country hasn't even officially apologized for the abomination that was slavery and its after effects. Morally, this shouldn't come down to money. This country goes out of its way to tell other countries todo justice for victims of wrongs. This country has also apologized and compensated Native Americans, Japanese Americans, and others regardless of adequacy of amount.

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» Welfare Posted by: adh

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How to reduce the stress of racisim
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Posted by: eosrk on Jun 28, 2007 1:30 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Once us blacks fully understand, from the homeless to the Oprahs of the world that this world is racist towards us, 90% of our stressors go away, just like that. Mine did, and I'm losing weight because of it, which is a good thing for me.

then when you put racisim in the US, stress goes almost completly away casue I use this issue, All my foremothers and forefathers were forced over here, chained to the bottom of slave ships, and were not even considered a full human being, thus is the reason why the Civil Rights Bill of 1964 was created.

And for the most part, it didn't help much there either. Though Opraph is one of the first female black billionaires, has her own show, channel, and pretty soon some stores, the Whites own the network she's on, the cable network her channel aires over, and has to get a permit from the city....run by the whites.....to build her store. She steps out of line, and she's history!!!

just like that!

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Parallel Societies: history verses experience
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Posted by: BlueBerry PickN on Jun 28, 2007 1:56 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
when we, as a North American collection of Peoples, recognize that there are a multiplicity of History... published, private & propagandized..

... then & only THEN... will we recognize that ETHICS & COMPASSION are our only uniting characteristics.

..that we all bleed red.



Spread Love...
... but wear the Glove!

BlueBerry Pick'n
can be found @
ThisCanadian
"We, two, form a multitude" ~ Ovid
==
"Silent Freedom is Freedom Silenced"

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Billy Bob
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Posted by: wjneill on Jun 28, 2007 3:01 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I understand very well two examples of the black experience:

A Hispanic woman and Vietnamese man were savagely murdered in Houston by five black youths. One has just been convicted of murder and sentenced to death.

A white couple were savagely murdered in Knoxville, Tennessee by five black youths. The accused are awaiting trial.

For reasons I do not know, neither Jesse Jackson nor Al Sharpton have seen fit to appear in Houston or Knoxville to visit the bereaved families.

Nor have these stories received national media coverage as would occured had a black couple been murdered in both cases.

Yeah, I understand very well.

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A distrubing trend in the u.s.-teaching edited history
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Posted by: mobile68 on Jun 28, 2007 3:37 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I remember in elementary and in high school having to always read about how the jews suffered in the holcaust damn near for a whole semester, but only to learn about African slavery and the Native American slaughter by europeans in amerikkka all in a week for the whole school years. I am a history buff, but it would had been nice to learn more about who I was, people who look like me, and where I came from when I was in school (I am an African American). Like the saying goes, "a tree that doesn't have roots cannot grow". Eventually, I did go on to read and learn more about my history and it has disturbed me ever since. Despite what you white folks think, racism is a mental illness.

It's soooo funny how the white x-tians, white jews, and white quasi-liberals can agree that African-Americans and Native Americans should not receive compensation for what their european ancestors did to totally destroy their cultures and societies, but yet, not even the kkk, is publicly complaining about how public u.s. tax dollars are still funding "reparations" for WHITE jews (who are still being paid by the u.k., swiss and german gov'ts also) for something that happened on european soil and over 70 years ago! AND they have holocaust museums all over the country that are federally funded and are considered federal branches of the u.s. gov't!

Click on these links and see how are your tax dollars being used to support Israel:

This is what US aid to Israel looks like

Racism by any other name

If any group that should have expansive museums in every state and in every major city it should be the Native Americans followed by the African Americans! That way anyone of Caucasian descent can see how those groups of people amazingly survived 500+ years of oppression dished out by their european caucasian ancestors and how the caucasians are benefiting from this oppression and repression of brown and black peoples to this day and also understand how the u.s. exports this racism around the world, since those who control the media industries will not print the truth in the elementary and high school outdated history books!

If the Native Americans would have immigration policies put into place 500+ years ago, we would not be having this discussion today.

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» Don't hold your breath Posted by: ateo
» hey ateo the white supremist! Posted by: mobile68

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F all this nonsense...===THE FREAKIN' BILL IS DEAD!!!====
[Report this comment]
Posted by: ekipnrut on Jun 28, 2007 5:02 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That's what I'm Talkin' bout'..and if you must ask, "What Bill?"
Whatever...you aren't enough in the know to know..more..now
....DOF'nA..are you feelin' this ,all you punk ass 'liberals' .......Mwoooooowaaaaaahaaaahaaa. Now, having said that, I urge all Blacks and so called blacks on this site to unite and begin to undertake ,in this moment of opportunity, the task that OBVIOUSLY begs to be done as a matter of political and economic survival strategy. The quid pro quo..nunc pro tunc..
that should be engineered is apparent.
It does involve a bit more than shooting your traps off on
Alternet. Although ,done right, it could result in being a topic of
intense interest to Alternet amongst many others six months henceforth. Hint: the FIRST STEP would be to prepare a proper
econometric impact study , particularly given the amount of money involved. We need to think out of the box and our
inner visions attributed to ourselves not 'liberal' interlopers.
BTW It's called RWMDS..Racist White Male Dementia Syndrome and I- ekipnrut- claim intellectual priority for first identifying this as what ought be formally catalogued as a
DSM-IV disorder classification. As for symptoms? Consult posts (supra) :O)

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Ambiguities Abound
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Posted by: parmenicleitus on Jun 28, 2007 5:18 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If this article is representative of the "series of studies", I would have to conclude it is meaningless due to its ambiguities. Here is the abstract:

http://journals.cambridge.org/action/display
Abstract?fromPage=online&aid=1018408

1. What is a "white American"? Who qualifies for this distinction?

2. How is "white privilege" defined? Are "white Americans" like racing greyhounds let out of the gates at the same moment, or are there huge disparities amongst them? This is an important question in regards to assertions of "privilege".

3. How were the 958 "white Americans" chosen?


4. Were these 958 "white Americans" representative of "white Americans" in general? By looking at the abstract, I would have to infer the participants were all students given the criteria for "student status". This, in turn, would make me question the "age variation".


5. How was the "series of studies" advertised?

6. Given that there were "variations" of the main question, according to the abstract, how were these variations presented and who was chosen for which variation?

7. What were all the questions asked? How were they written or asked? What verbiage was used?

8. How were the questions on the surveys contextualized?

9. How is "reparations" defined in context of the study? There is an analogy presented, but no definition of what is meant by the term?

These questions, as well as others, remain unanswered either in the article or the abstract. As presented in either context, the "findings" remain largely meaningless.

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What the heck is going on here at Alternet?
[Report this comment]
Posted by: rjs on Jun 28, 2007 6:40 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I just left the Earl Ofari Hutchinson:
" Us Poor Black Folk" article threads and bumped into another one. Is this all black people can write about? Or is this author a confused white Republican?

I am just about ready to never read Alternet again if they don't clean up this "We are poor mis-treated Afro American" racist garbage. This gets old. Write something of interest or write nothing and leave a blank "WHITE" page if you have too. If that really irritates you, leave the space "BLACK" and empty on the page for all I care. But quit with the racism articles. This site is going down hill fast.

Thank you.

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No Rant, No Manifesto, Just Some Observations/Ponderings...
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Posted by: grumble-bum on Jun 28, 2007 7:07 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
1. The neighborhood I live in (located in a mid-sized Midwestern city, on the outside edge of the classiest section of town) consists of the following mix of skin-tones/cultures/ethnicities, in descending order; Whites & American Blacks (tie), African Blacks, Southeast Asians, & Hispanics. I rent a small apartment in a pretty nice historic building, which consumes a little under 1/2 of my monthly income. I'm pretty damn White, but I was raised to appreciate other shades of Humans. My darker neighbors mostly live in equally nice buildings, although I don't pretend to know what percentage of their income this devours. None of us mix much, other than peacefully sharing our common spaces. But, I wonder, do people really mix much in the all-White outlying suburbs? I feel comfortable & "safe" here, but would I feel the same way if I lived in an all-(American) Black portion of the city? Would my African Black neighbors, for that matter?

2. I was taking a smoke-break at work recently, when two Black guys walked by. The younger of the two (early 20's) was loudly complaining that "all White people think we all look alike!" He was really pissed off, but his elder companion (mid 60's) was just kind of zoning him out- he'd obviously already considered that particular gripe a few times. Or, perhaps he had noticed my White self sitting there & was trying to be polite? I found myself wondering what the reaction might be if I went around making broad statements about Black people, right in front of them. Maybe the kid didn't "see" me- maybe I was "invisible" to him, like boring wallpaper.

3. I attend an A.A. meeting every week that is evenly split between Whites & Blacks. It's a small meeting, & I've gotten to know many of the other members pretty well. While it's amazing what the shared experiences among us reveal about our basic similarities as Humans (& the comfort level that this engenders), I can't help but notice that we almost always group ourselves by shade when choosing our seats.

4. I just re-read James Baldwin's essay, "The Fire Next Time". Here was a Black man who possessed a better working knowledge of "White" English than many Whites of his day (& our present day, for sure), & yet was against "assimilation". Ironically, I would guess that the average Black (or White) teenager reading him today would dismiss him as a total sell-out, based purely on his exacting prose! Living in the social turbulence of the early 1960's, he seemed certain that the "Race Problem" would be solved (either peacefully or violently) within his lifetime. Sadly, many of the scalpel-like observations he made then about both races are still valid today. Will this self-perpetuating lunacy ever stop?

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When the Left sucks the African-American community dry for political capital, it will...
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Posted by: Jak_dah_rippah on Jun 28, 2007 7:57 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
move on to the Hispanic American community after throwing the African-American community "under the bus"

It is truly despicable the way the divisive Democrats have played different segments of American society against each other for self-serving political gain.

It is about time that the moral, hardworking, and patriotic African-American community reject the patronizing and insulting tactics of the Democrats whose "stated" policies supposedly beneficial to African-Americans have only led to dependency, despair, and poverty.

The power lies within.

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Most dangerous racists in this country are Democrats.
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Posted by: Jak_dah_rippah on Jun 28, 2007 8:01 PM   
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Who constantly play "white against black" for political gain.

What have the failed and self-serving policies of the Democrat Party given to Black America since the Republic Congress passed Civil Rights legislation in 1964?

It is time that (1) Black America jettison the Democrats and (2) Conservative America embrace a largely hard working, religious, and patriotic voting bloc that has been ignored/neglected for to long among Republican/Conservative leadership.

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» Right on! Posted by: slydad
» Link here Posted by: ateo
» RE: ight on! Posted by: techphile
» Good reply . . . Posted by: slydad
» Now that is amazing! Posted by: slydad
» Diversity? Posted by: slydad
» That's pretty good. Posted by: slydad
» P.S. Posted by: slydad
» BTW Posted by: slydad
» See . . . now I like this. Posted by: slydad
» Try this Posted by: slydad

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Who sold Africa into slavery?
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Posted by: White middleclass male on Jun 28, 2007 11:52 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Oh that’s right it was black Africans. Africans are the ones that sold their neighbors into slavery. Whites just drove up to the drive thru window and placed their order. Its funny I never hear anyone demand slavery reparations from Africans.

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» African slave profits Posted by: moflard
» Little point Posted by: moflard
» RE: Little point Posted by: pito516
» Y'all please Posted by: JCrowe

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The Reactions To This Article Are Too Typical
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Posted by: MarcGarvey on Jun 29, 2007 6:23 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And then I remember that Alternet, like many 'Left' sites on the net are overwhelmingly white. And yeah, yeah, I know that whites will say that is irrelevant. I know. Race doesn't matter.

But put this story on an 90% black forum and watch the difference in responses.

And yeah, I know, blacks are too sensitive, paranoid and irrational. It's the same story everytime. Study after study reveals similar things and again and again, whites (not all but generally) say that the study is 'flawed' and that black people are irrational.

This is the same (but high tech) version of racism from over a hundred years ago.

Basically it says that black people are incapable of accurately interpreting their reality but whites are capable of accurately interpreting black reality.

Unsurprising but always amazing.

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rural, white, and had disadvantages, but moved on
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Posted by: zooeyhall on Jun 29, 2007 7:13 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I grew up in rural Nebraska in the 1960's, and believe me there was poverty in rural America--then and now. Then and now also it had nothing to do with race. My dad was a farm tenent as were many others in my community. We were white and still poor and living in substandard housing. At the exact time shows like "Green Acres" and "The Beverly Hillbillies" were running on tv and giving urban people a good yuck, we were living the reality and it wasn't so funny. Nobody was crying for us and saying "oh those poor white tenent farmers in Nebraska". Nobody worried about the poor housing, poor nutrition. My dad when he reached his eighties was almost toothless because he couldn't afford proper dental care when he needed it. A single kerosene stove to keep us warm on bitter midwest winter days. There were days when all Mom could make for dinner was spaghetti.

I think that articles like this that single out a specific race and cry and wail about the injustice are missing the point. Poverty is color blind. The powers-that-be don't give a rat's a#s about the color of the people they exploit. They don't care if they are black or white or yellow or martians, just so that they do the work cheaper than the people before.

I see alot of this "race boosterism" in academia. There are people who make money off of this sort of thing. I think there is a great deal of disconnect between some of these college academics and the real world.

I guess what I am saying is that as a white youth in a poor rural environment, I didn't spend the rest of my life sitting on my hands and bitchin' about my disadvantages and blaming someone else. There were five kids in my family, and we each got a college degree. Not one of us has ever been in trouble with the law, taken one cent in welfare, or even collected a single unemployment check.

Yes it has been tough, and I still run into a veiled discrmination and what I call a "cultural racism" from urban people who have actually told me that rural people are somehow not as bright as urban folks. But I and my siblings never fell into trap, exemplified by this article, of blaming others for our problems.

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» Question... Posted by: vangogh69

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I'll happly switch, if I can still be the same me under my skin
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Posted by: fibrowitch on Jun 29, 2007 7:28 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am the daughter of a welder, and a housewife. My father worked two jobs so my mother could stay home and raise us. I and two of my brothers went to college, on our own dime, as our parents did not have enough to pay our way.

I was told to keep good grades in school, to do well in life, and to stay away from gangs, drugs, and not get pregnant until marriage. I have two degrees, own the house I live in and have the respect of my community.

If I get to keep all that, I will switch colors for free.

What I will not do, is switch places with the type of person I hear about in the news every day. The woman who did not finish school, with several kids, by different men, who can't read or write, has gang connections, and blames the 'whites' for holding her back.

So ask me the correct question, not if I will change color, but if I will change my life. It is the choices a person makes, not the color of their skin.

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After reading these comments, I am glad that I am not Black.
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Posted by: sarahk on Jun 29, 2007 8:49 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am shocked at the anger and disgust toward Black people in the above comments. Once again, I am glad that I was born White. I like that as a White person, other White people make positive assumptions about me. Because of the color of my skin, people assume that I am well-educated, have good sexual morals, don't use drugs and have never lived on welfare.
During college, my Black roomate did fit all the above criteria, while I did not. It was funny that White people assumed the worst about her: that she was a "token" scholarship student and that her family lived on welfare, etc... Meanwhile, it was my family that was on food stamps and welfare for years, not hers, and it was she who was a more diligent student than I.

Before you keep hating:
Remember, white women, who make up the majority of people on welfare, who collect most of the food stamp and welfare money that is doled out. Remember that the vast majority of drugs that come into this country are consumed by white people. Why is there many more blacks arrested for drugs? Becuase white people are 4 times less likely to have their vehicle searched for drugs than black people.

Also remember that DNA genetic tests are showing that most White people in the US do have a recent black ancestor. You probably have more in common with Blacks than you think.

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» RE: Everybody puke at ateo! Posted by: mobile68
» And speaking of drugs... Posted by: vangogh69

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It's almost funny!
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Posted by: Tacticsb on Jun 29, 2007 2:08 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
After reading many of the posts on this forum and seeing so much anger and ridicule being directed at blacks and anyone seen as identifying with their situation I almost have to laugh my ass off! Why you may ask? Because come election time many of these same folks who know reality better than blacks, who think that blacks are just stupid or what ever else, will be the first people to expect blacks to back the dems and help their side win. My question is when will blacks just walk away from these idiot false friends? All it takes is for the black vote to drop just a few points for the dems and many of their strategies will lie in ruin, and that to me would be a great thing! No matter how you slice it blind loyalty with no reward is a fools errand, so if blacks waking up happens to make others who depend upon the dems suffer a little more that is fine with me. After all, should we all not look after our own first and foremost?!

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HAHAHA, I Have Been Living "Black" All My Life
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Posted by: hole11 on Jun 29, 2007 4:05 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And I constantly feel oppressed. I constantly try to avoid police. Going out alone or at night is just out of the question. I could be next in line but somehow I will be last out the door. People mess up my food orders constantly and while everyone else is eating I have to wait for my food to arrive.

Job? Sorry, I am the wrong color for that. I would be better off black.

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Whites don't comprehend what it's like to be black
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Posted by: moflard on Jun 29, 2007 5:05 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Well D'uhhhh!

It seems to me a strange study to carry out - although quite perfect for academia. Take knowledge that any fool can see in the world around them (that whites don't really appreciate what it is to be black) and go out and "prove" it. How much did these "researchers" get in funding I wonder. Put it this way, if it was easy to put yourself in someone elses head and worldview, do you think our history would have been quite so violent?

Yes there are blacks that have managed to do well, and congrats to them, but then, there's a few people made it to the top of Everest, doesn't mean it's easy or even possible for many.

Yes I hear the complaints from some whites of blacks giving in to a poisonous culture and there is some truth in this - BUT this culture doesn't exist in a vacuum. It exists within the shadows cast by it's own history, and the dominant (white) culture that surrounds it. Being black must be a bit like running a marathon with a 250lb weight tied to your leg. You can do it, but it sure as hell isn't easy, and a great deal more difficult than for those without the weight. And sometimes you must wonder what the hell you're racing for anyway.

As for the reparations, well I gave my views as an Irishman earlier, but it seems a red herring. Let Blacks have equal access to the benefits of the economy their ancestors helped build, and maybe they won't bother with the reparations that seem to annoy so many of us whites.

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To: Tacticsb, sarahk, mobile68, vangogh69and other posters who appear to be 'thinking'
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Posted by: ekipnrut on Jun 30, 2007 11:31 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
people: This is a little 'off topic'...but apparently the AIDS
situation , globally, is far ,far ,far the F worse than even I thought ......and I think of myself as "informed'!!!!!!
The LEADING cause of Death in American Black women in the 25 to 34 y.0. age cohort is AIDS...is this sinking the F in?????????
In Ukraine..the 'White' bread basket of 'Mother Russia', an AIDS mortality rate of 30% in the same age cohort by 2014 is projected. You guys/gals may want to devote as much time
and energy to this nightmare pandemic as you..and I...have given to some of the cyber 'Jerry Springer show' commentator
'race baiting WWF smackdowns'; like some Alternet articles.
Check out the following two references........
RETHINK
AIDS Among U.S. Women Is on the Rise [ posted on Alternet]
By Jeff Fleischer, Women's eNews. Posted June 26, 2007.

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» You make my point for me!! Posted by: yellow

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Oh, C'MON people...There's a bigger fight looming ahead
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Posted by: veggiegrrrl on Jun 30, 2007 2:29 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Let's end this black versus white hate debate, unite, and focus on Americans vs. Illegals.

(just kidding)

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(aging and increasingly racist) JAPS for Jesus........:O)
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Posted by: ekipnrut on Jun 30, 2007 2:44 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Foreigner...Long,Long, way from Home......

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» LOL!! Posted by: veggiegrrrl
» This JAP would love to be black Posted by: veggiegrrrl

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I'm assuming this is a typo
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Posted by: susanhathaway on Jul 1, 2007 7:09 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Your article refers to "reparations struggles for groups wrongfully interred during wars."

Shouldn't that be "interned"? Imprisoned, rather than buried?

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Misunderstanding?
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Posted by: SaraO on Jul 1, 2007 7:44 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Perhaps the respondents feared the implications of stating that they would have to be paid so much money to be Black - stating such a thing can be construed as racist, despite it being an anonymous survey. Guilt plays a major part in survey taking, it is a psychological fact regarding the nature of collecting such information from people.

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So what's new?
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Posted by: kmart35 on Jul 2, 2007 10:56 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think most of us spend our life in denial don't we? We don't like to realize there is racism in our country. I spent a small portion of time on Medicaid when I was in college & had my son unexpectedly as a graduate college student (I was married though) and found that an interesting/eye-opening experience. I had some African-American roomates in college, but I still probably don't have as much understanding as I should.

In college, there were students that insisted there was no discrimination towards women on the campus although there has never been a woman college president at the college even when it was originally a college exclusively for women! As if there has never been a woman capable enough to run the college. Discrimination is all around us, and I guess it is easier for us to go through life with our blinders on.

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The Great liberal saviors are gonna fix blacks now
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Posted by: OhioPatriot on Jul 2, 2007 5:22 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You don't even try to force your programmed minds to think anymore, just spout out half ass lame ass propaganda numbers that prop up your American hating white and Jewish hating prdjudice tendencies.
If anyone of you actually spent time in a ghetto you would know that the reasons are substance abuse and poor or no parenting.
Go to a prison and you will see the result of substance abuse and poor parenting.
Go to the graveyard and see the reults of substance abuse and bad parenting.

If I were black I believe I would tell you to shut the fuck up, all your doing is causing the next generation of young blacks to believe that all thier problems are out of thier control and up to white people to fix because they are somehow inadequate and unresponsible.
The problems blacks experience are not unique, the denial of responsibility, fed by outsiders who want to keep the black vote by convincing blacks that they were born victims and only the white liberals in this country can fix them is the only obstacle that is unique.
Every liberal spawned attempt since the 50s to help black america has only weakened the black society and disolved black families. It is the institutionalizing of blacks by a political agenda in need of votes and determined to get them at the cost of black america that makes me sick.
If I was black I would say "don't you dare make excuses for me when I stumble'
"don't you dare undermine my authority by telling my children that bad behavior is not thier fault"
"Don't you ever try to assume you are so powerfull that you control my destiny through a fading history'

Thats what I think

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Bit of a light-weight article....
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Posted by: tommy2004 on Jul 3, 2007 8:07 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm sorry but this is a light-weight article... The skimping over the results of the survey and questions asked suggest complete manipulation of the interviewees or results..... It seems to me obvious that it is not made clear to the respondent that in 'changing their colour' they would also be subjected to the finanicial pressures and prujudices suffered by a large proportion of the African American Community... In fact if anything I think it shows that people see skin colour as an irrelevance taken as a stand alone issue which is surely a good thing......

If the author were to clarify that the respondents were told in taking on this change it would be from birth, in black communities and with the services offered in these areas I would take the results more seriously.... If you just say 'how much money would you take to become black' it is completely bl00dy meaningless and you can read what the hell you want into it......

Shame I don't disagree it's an issue worth addressing but lets have some research from grown ups please!

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Wow..
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Posted by: daksha on Jul 3, 2007 10:43 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Do you begin by addressing the article or the replies.

The question of reparations for example. In my opinion a terrible idea. Blacks were not the only slaves in this country and arguably American Indians should step to the head of the line if reparations are to be paid. We stole from them what we promised they could keep and what they own by right of treaty. Not to mention the genoicide we perpetrated. Or the dehumanization, slavery or germ warfare. Wounded Knee, the Black Hills and blankets deliberately infested with measles come to mind. Heck, the buffalo soldier was complicit in Indian genocide.

That would be an easier fix..just givem them back what they are owed. Blacks living on land owed the Indians are no more interested in that then anyone else.

If reparations are to be paid why not seek them from the perpetrators that captured and sold them into slavery? Without their greed and willingness to sell members of other African tribes the instituion never gets off the ground. Some attention is paid to the middle men but little to the perps. Would the African nations be wiling to step up? Have they been asked by the same parties seeking reparations now?

Shouldn't black descendents of black slave owners be excluded? Shouldn't descendents of free blacks be excluded? What about light skinned blacks who have, incidentally, been discriminated against by dark skin blacks and accused of not being black?

Looking at black America as a monolith is a mistake. So too is assuming all black people live in ghettoes or that all black people share the same values. Or the quaint notion that refusal to take responsibility is a common element in the black community. Heck, we have a President that does not want any one to be accountable for their actions. Why should elements of the black community not have the same opportunity.

If you ask me if I would take a sum of money to become black if I could live in Atlanta and have the same family my reply is yes. I would say no if I had to live in the ghettoes of NYC. I would say no if I had to live on the Rosebud Sioux reservation as an Indian but yes if I could live elsewhere as an Indian. I would say no to being a Latino if I had to live as a fruit picker but yes if I could live in a different situation.

One of my problems is the stereotyping both in the article and the replies.

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