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Exposed: The Anatomy of a Torture Scandal

By Onnesha Roychoudhuri, AlterNet. Posted June 21, 2007.


Where does the buck stop when it comes to torture?

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Not long before Lynndie England ever stepped foot in Iraq, long before she became the poster-child for torture, she was a whistleblower at Pilgrim's Pride chicken factory in Moorefield, W.Va. -- a notion that doesn't quite fit with her current image.

In the wake of the Abu Ghraib scandal, Americans were offered two kinds of analysis. We were given a choice regarding the horrendous abuse of those detained in Abu Ghraib (70 percent to 90 percent of which, according to the Red Cross, were arrested by mistake or had no intelligence value): Was it just a few bad apples -- a crazed night shift of sadists that raped, sodomized, beat and electrocuted prisoners (including women and children) -- or was it systemic, based on orders that came straight from the top?

Tara McKelvey's new book Monstering: Inside America's Policy of Secret Interrogations and Torture in the Terror War offers a more nuanced and in-depth exploration of how and why incidents of abuse and torture like Abu Ghraib happened (and continue to happen) in the war on terror. Namely, that it took both lower-level bad apples, and high-level hypocrites to produce such violence. Confronting the fact that both choice and command played a part in Abu Ghraib forces us to face a more complex and unsavory truth. But anything less simply doesn't make sense. If it were only a few bad apples, why haven't all of those few been prosecuted? In the famous prisoner pyramid photograph, there are 32 boots visible. Yet, only seven soldiers were charged, with Charles Graner and Lynndie England effectively serving as the poster couple for the abuses. Furthermore, how could it possibly be just a few bad apples when even the Army's own investigations have called the torture systemic and illegal. Similarly, to claim that those participating in the abuse were only following orders doesn't mesh with the fact that there are, as McKelvey states in the book, those who refused to take part in abusive practices and faced no reprimand.

A bad idea ... normalized

While Abu Ghraib was made world-famous by U.S. abuses, the prison had a famed and longstanding opening act as Saddam's notorious site of torture and executions. Despite the obvious negative associations, a military report stated that Abu Ghraib was "the largest and most suitable prison site for dangerous and long-term criminals within the country of Iraq." Apart from calls from human rights organizations to find another facility, even a Coalition Provisional Authority (CPA) officer argued against it in no uncertain terms: "It was no different than going into Dachau and saying, 'We're going to use this as a prison facility.'" (One of the camps of Abu Ghraib, Camp Ganci, was named after a firefighter killed in the terrorist attacks of 9/11. The more conflated associations with horrendous violence, apparently, the merrier.)

McKelvey shows how this same kind of willful ignorance led Geoffrey Miller (of Gitmo fame) and Ricardo Sanchez (commander of coalition forces in Iraq 2003-2004) to declare Abu Ghraib the "headquarters" for Iraqi intelligence collection. Sam Provance, an Abu Ghraib whistleblower, tells McKelvey, "Computers started coming in, and they just never stopped coming. Brand-new, state-of-the-art desktops, laptops." Provance might have appreciated the technology if not for a few other supplies they needed: "... there were still no lights in the guardhouse. It was crazy. It was like, 'Oh, my God. What do you expect from us?'" A fair question given the fact that the reported ratio of prisoners to guards in 2004 was 75:1, not to mention that previously cited statistic of up to 90 percent of prisoners possessing no intelligence.

McKelvey writes convincingly of the pressures that ensued from such an impossible situation: The sense of frustration and anger, as well as grief over lost comrades, was palpable among the soldiers at Abu Ghraib. Their requests for backup support and resources were often ignored. They faced hundreds of malnourished, frustrated detainees on the prison compound every day. At the same time, they were threatened by an enemy that moved in darkness beyond the prison walls.

After the prison was declared the headquarters for intelligence collection, intelligence analysts were expected to arrive at the prison. Instead, soldiers showed up. These soldiers were then given two-day crash courses with Powerpoint presentations on how to interrogate prisoners. Among the slides is an illustration of interrogators with a sock puppet. The caption read, "I realize this sounds rather cliché, but we have ways of making you talk."

Incidentally, any soldier, MP or intelligence officer stationed at detainment facilities around the world could expect a number of creative PowerPoint presentations. "It was explained to us in a PowerPoint presentation that the Geneva Conventions don't apply -- which we already knew," said Erik Saar, a former military linguist stationed at Guantanamo, in a 2005 interview. "They told us, 'Just so you're aware, these individuals are not POWs, they're detainees or enemy combatants ... But it was left unclear as to what that meant on a day-to-day basis.'"

The day-to-day basis for guards and interrogators at Abu Ghraib was furnished in part by Geoffrey Miller's "Gitmo-ization" process. McKelvey writes that Charles Graner received training in the use of stress positions from a Gitmo interrogator and was also familiar with Palestinian hangings. Further furnishing the details were civilian contractor interrogators, some of whom are described in Monstering as employing distinctly strident and violent methods. Working for the private sector, the civilian contractors are not subject to the same legal standards as U.S. military personnel. This was arguably part of the reason that civilian contractors were intentionally hired; though intentional or not, it certainly makes prosecution of torture offenses difficult.

Blowing off some steam

The stresses of an ongoing threat of attack, short-staffing, insufficiently trained soldiers and creative techniques straight from Guantanamo led to a situation in which abuses were rampant. So much so that a Human Rights Watch report stated, simply, "The torture of detainees reportedly was so widespread and accepted that it became a means of stress relief for soldiers." The situation was one in which amateur interrogators were encouraged to dismiss any law that might hinder what they deemed their intelligence gathering. A category that clearly was broadened to include violent stress relief. If you are at all confused about how violence could be construed as stress relief in a military prison setting like Abu Ghraib, McKelvey's book is unmatched in its exposure of the social life there (admittedly of the more violent, sadomasochistic strain). MPs on cheap highs ("robo-tripping") take turns repeatedly stabbing a dummy detainee. The heads of a cat and a goat are shuffled around. On top of soda cans. With cigarette and weapon accoutrements.

While dismembered cats were hardly the stuff of torture memos, Sam Provance explained to McKelvey how games likewise extended to prisoners. And when it came to taking photographs of naked prisoners in a pyramid, naked prisoners on leashes, or naked prisoners being forced to simulate masturbation, the behavior was not only acceptable, but encouraged. Says Provance, "Those MPs thought what they were doing was acceptable. So acceptable that they would use them as wallpaper for their laptops."

Better than you think, worse than you think

One of the most famous lines from Preston Sturges' 1941 screwball comedy The Lady Eve is delivered by the struck-by-love swindler Jean Harrington: "The best ones aren't as good as you think they are, and the bad ones aren't as bad." Critical to McKelvey's depiction of the setting of the Abu Ghraib violence is the stark realization that even those who spoke out about the abuses still shared in the mentality that led to the abuses. In conversation with McKelvey, Provance confesses that many MPs would "talk about their experience when the detainees were being humiliated and abused. It was always a joke story. It was like, 'Ha, ha. It was hilarious. You had to be there.' It would be funny if it were in a movie -- in a spoof like Naked Gun Two and a Half ... You see these Iraqi people. It's hard to imagine they're human. They're just the stock detainee. Like a movie prop."

In a similarly unexpected vein, McKelvey spends time with Lynndie England's family and learns that, working in a chicken plant, England spoke up about improper conduct. The young lady who is, in the imagination of Primetime-watching Americans everywhere, the twisted soldier suckered into abuse by her older boyfriend, Graner, was actually something of a whistleblower in her own town.

Meanwhile McKelvey visits the hometown of a quiet Egyptian-American named Adel Nakhla and hears from a former employer that Nakhla was "one of the nicest guys who's ever worked here ... Just a lovable bear kind of a guy." Yet Nakhla stands accused of forcing naked prisoners to touch each other sexually, hitting a prisoner so hard that his ear had to be stitched up and raping a young boy. While the criminal investigation wing of the Army (CID) did conduct an investigation, because of legal jurisdiction issues Nakhla is not being held liable for damages.

Hypocrisy at the top

What many Americans may not know is that there are many more photographs from Abu Ghraib that have not been released. It wasn't just roughing up and pyramids. Indeed, in a 12-day period in 2003, five men died of heart attacks. While all were classified as natural deaths, the heart failure was a result of massive stress and abuse. The torture and abuse that were perpetrated by the lower rank and file MPs and interrogators at Abu Ghraib are certainly reprehensible, shock the conscience, and deserve a much more than a cursory investigation and prosecution. But there is a far more revolting double-speak on torture at the highest levels of the Bush administration that does more than shock the conscience; it actively eviscerates it.

The armchair torturers at the top created a clear abusive detainment environment by jettisoning the Geneva Conventions, redefining the word "torture" and implementing new techniques. Former administration officials like John Yoo, David Addington, Donald Rumsfeld and current Attorney General Alberto Gonzales, were so preoccupied with the expansion of executive power, with what the president was authorized to do to people, they effectively render meaningless the notion of what was not legally allowed. McKelvey makes good use of former Bush legal advisor John Yoo's legal screed War by Other Means: An Insider's Account of the War on Terror by citing his observation of how little has changed about the administration's stance on torture. While the famous Torture Memo of 2002 was withdrawn and rewritten in 2004, Yoo notes that, since the legal conclusions in the new memo were basically the same, this exercise in political image making may have seemed worth it simply to ease Gonzalez's confirmation. The 2002 memo was, in effect, rewritten in 2004 to take out language about what torture was or wasn't, to placate the sensibilities of those who didn't like seeing the law of torture and harsh interrogation even discussed. Nothing of substance about the law had changed.

Yoo, clearly in no need of the placating reserved for those with more fragile sensibilities, insists that "the conflict is with the terrorists." Somehow, the critical question of how it is decided, whether or not someone is a terrorist, is missing from the equation. And while some officials like Yoo's White House colleague Timothy Flanigan, expressed to McKelvey his regret that techniques intended for use on members of al Qaeda were used on innocent Iraqi women and children, it was never clear to anyone, it seems, except for Flanigan that this was the case.

Rumsfeld's May 4, 2004, response to journalists in the wake of the Abu Ghraib photos was to explain that the Geneva Conventions "did not apply precisely" in Iraq. He referred to them, rather, as "basic rules." As if that weren't mealy mouthed enough, his May 14 visit to soldiers at Abu Ghraib muddied (or, in another sense, clarified) the sentiment even further: "Geneva doesn't say what you do when you get up in the morning."

Accountability

The plethora of contradiction seems, unfortunately, to be unexploited by many formal investigations. McKelvey recounts one soldier's experience being questioned by George Fay for the Army's Fay-Jones investigation. Fay would allegedly start off an interview by saying, "If anyone saw anything and failed to intervene, they can be charged with a crime. Did anyone see anything and fail to intervene?" While clearly inadequate, the Fay-Jones report affirmed that there was torture at Abu Ghraib. The other major investigation and report conducted by Antonio Taguba offered a more damning conclusion: Not only was there torture going on, it was the fault of leadership. In a recent New Yorker article, Taguba tells Seymour Hersh that he was ordered to limit any investigation to the low-ranking soldiers who were photographed and legally prevented from extending the investigation beyond those parameters. Taguba also states that top commanders were well aware of the migration of techniques from Guantanamo to Abu Ghraib.

Taguba was forced to retire earlier this year by Gen. Richard Cody, the Army's vice chief of staff, who told him, "I need you to retire by January of 2007."

We also know from Taguba that there are more unreleased photographs, many involving the abuse of female prisoners. Taguba says he saw footage of a male American soldier sodomizing a female detainee. Many former prisoners of Abu Ghraib met with McKelvey when she traveled to Amman, Jordan, to conduct interviews. The stories recounted in Monstering are a testament to the importance of journalists at a time when government officials are not being held accountable for criminal behavior.

Perhaps the most poignant component of McKelvey's book is her presence in the work. She is face to face with those who come to her with the bracelets they wore when they were held at Abu Ghraib. Some show her scars. Others, especially the women, close up entirely when asked about sexual abuse. In an agonizing interview with a father of three whose two young sons were killed in a U.S. military campaign, we learn that his repeated attempts to file for compensation under the U.S. Foreign Claims Act were finally denied compensation "based on a lack of evidence showing negligence of U.S. personnel." After spending hours with McKelvey, explaining in detail what he'd endured, McKelvey finds herself desperately wishing she could give him something to acknowledge his loss: I felt a bit thrown off balance by my own feelings of sadness and regret. I find myself grabbing a Polaroid picture of my boyfriend's cat -- an orange tom called Bruno -- that I keep on my bedside table and giving it to him. I do it without thinking ... In retrospect it seems embarrassing, but it was a response, however inadequate, to the tragedy of his story."

At other times, talking to less savory characters whose motivations McKelvey questions, her fear is tangible. Rightfully so. Three of the people on the list of former detainees that McKelvey had access to were murdered while she worked on the book. It is unlikely that their deaths will be investigated.

Tortured language

McKelvey's conclusion includes a brief explanation in which he says that "torture, as well as beatings, assault, and random arrests, can be effective." She cites John Pike of Globalsecurity.org's explanation of Saddam Hussein, who was "tracked down by unraveling a 'social network' of friends, relatives and acquaintances." What doesn't seem to add up is this brief torture success story in a book packed with examples of its failures. Furthermore, roughing up those in Saddam's social network to find his location seemed a far cry from the kind of open-ended detainment and low to no intelligence value available in Abu Ghraib. When I asked about this, McKelvey reiterated that there is "overwhelming evidence that says torture does not produce reliable information." The point she is trying to make, she says, is that "it doesn't matter. I don't think we should torture people, or use abusive techniques, because it is wrong to do that -- not because we don't get good information.

The point is well taken, and it's an interesting debate as to whether we should engage in the argument of whether or not torture is effective rather than simply stating its immorality. In the end, I believe we have to argue both -- necessarily in the same breath. A well-known new report showed that two out of three Americans justify torture under certain circumstances. There are too many 24-indoctrinated Americans who believe that torture is justified because they think it works. Perhaps even more disturbingly, as Jane Mayer of the New Yorker reports, it's not just Americans sitting on couches who think it works. The dean of West Point flew to California to meet with the creators of 24 to warn them that their show is "adversely affecting the training and performance of real American soldiers."

But McKelvey's book demonstrates this. In the end, the reader is left humbled at her exhaustive reporting. It is both heartening and heart-breaking to think that journalists are picking up this much government slack.

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Onnesha Roychoudhuri is a Brooklyn-based freelance writer. A former assistant editor at AlterNet, she has also written for MotherJones.com, Women's e-News, and PopMatters.

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.War Crimes Tribunal
Posted by: aurora2484 on Jun 21, 2007 1:15 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I read somewhere recently that the first steps have now been taken to establish an International War Crimes Tribunal, to begin to address some of this. To all the powers that be, "Let it be soon!"

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» Eli Israel Posted by: grim ripper
» RE:. Eli Israel Posted by: aurora2484
» RE:. Eli Israel - update Posted by: aurora2484
» RE: .War Crimes Tribunal Posted by: Lauren
» RE: .War Crimes Tribunal Posted by: peacefullaim
» RE: .War Crimes Tribunal Posted by: Lincoln fan
There is justice for these crimes, but it is unlikely to befall the people most responsible.
Posted by: zyxwvut on Jun 21, 2007 1:38 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The high officials involved with Abu Ghraib are most responsible for what happened because they knowingly established the conditions which allowed for abuse. But whether they might face any retribution is extremely hard to say.

However the United States has lost prestige in the world and is even reviled, to a large extent because of this scandal. American travelers to other countries need to be more cautious because the actions of our leaders on Abu Ghraib and Iraq in general have made us a disliked, distrusted, and often despised nation.

The crimes committed at Abu Ghraib have generated consequences, but they are not befalling the people who hold the most blame for them.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» "Shit rolls down hill" Posted by: ateo
» RE: "Shit rolls down hill" Posted by: shanaza
» Correct me if I'm wrong, Posted by: Illiteratilumen
» RE: Correct me if I'm wrong, Posted by: LeftCoastProgressive
» RE: Correct me if I'm wrong, Posted by: Illiteratilumen
» RE: "Shit rolls down hill" Posted by: JSquercia
» RE: "Shit rolls down hill" Posted by: Lauren
As if working in a chicken plant is completely innocent!
Posted by: grim ripper on Jun 21, 2007 3:37 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This writer demonstrates his ignorance in failing to grasp the systematic torture of billions of helpless animals that occurs everyday in the factories of the type England worked for. Instead he seems to consider the fact that she did work there some type of redeeming quality.

I wonder how many chickens she molested after hours before graduating to Iraqi human beings

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» Grandma's chickens Posted by: sausage
» RE: Grandma's chickens Posted by: kelt65
American values?
Posted by: andrushka on Jun 21, 2007 3:40 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Can anyone tell me what on earth are American moral values?
From this article I detect none. Also what are the qualities required to make an American soldier? Instead of invading countries, Mr. Bush should reflect on those values. To enable him to do so, why not send him and his "court" to Gitmo for a long long time, with maybe a touch of his kind of torture?

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» RE: American values? Posted by: willymack
» Didn't you know? Posted by: Bic Pentameter
torture
Posted by: tortured on Jun 21, 2007 3:52 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
torture is his favorite dance
he knows its beat and measure
allures away with awesome art
and alters what you treasure

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» RE: torture Posted by: Lauren
Evil normalized is Corporate Fascism Normalized through Empire
Posted by: Perfectclue on Jun 21, 2007 4:06 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The most recent revelations by Seymore Hersch, in the New Yorker, that Rumsfeld, and most likely the President himself, were aware of the torture of Abu Ghraib is proof that they are war crimiianls. They of course are aware of the minions of other secret CIA concentration camps, in places like Poland, Eastern Europe. Phillipine General, Major General Tabuba, told Rumsfeld months before the news revelations, regarding Abu Ghraib that such torture took place, which means, with their war crimes, must include serial felony lies. Major General Taguba was forced out, and retired, so that the lies could continue both in the Pentagon and the White House.

With so many criminal, revelations, there is no excuse for the so many appeasing, class whoring Democrats to refuse to impeach Cneney, Bush, and Rumsfeld. Olbermann's failed political class extends beyond Iraq, and now Iran and the middle East, our fascist foreign policies, and includes complicit Democratic war criminals, in these war crimes. So why does the public keep cheering on these equal opportunity class whores?????, Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama????, who are the new class mercenaries, new forms, new faces for Corporate Fascism, and who normalize this evil, by endorsing even a nuclear aggression against Iran, kowtowing to Amerikan Empire and the Israeli lobby, AIPAC. Why would the public continue to ignore socialist, green, and ant-war democratic candidates like Mike Gravels, Kucincih, and Ron Paul ??? They hold the Congress even lower than the criminals in the White House, yet continue to endorse the same ideology, class appeasing thugs and mercenaries, who they reject. They cannot make the political and ideological connection, let alone to history. Are they gluttons for punishment, stupid, or just plain lazy??? The are servile to superficial points, because race and gender mean nothing if you are still following the "good old boy" network of Corporate fascism.

Amerika defeated fascism in Nazi Germany, militarily, but not ideologically. I have always noted, the fact that good old southern boys, rednecks, racists from the Jim Crow Era, were fighting a Hitler, whose ideology, racism was theirs, similiar in outlook, which only means substituting one form of class regression for another corporate form. This is proof that oligarchies can fight each other, over class nationalism, imperialism, but not to end it, but who the next Class Empire should replace. England replaced the Napeoleon Empire, Nazi Germany tried to replace the English Empire, and the Amerikan Empire has replaced the Nazi corporate Empire for its own ends, as well as Zionism. The corporate fascist state has become the norm for Amerika, as well as Western global capitalism. It has normalized these war crimes, criminal standards. It is as Hannah Arendt said: "The banality of evil"

These criminal class elites, with heir rotten corporate Empire must be eliminated, or transformed. Forget about the color of Barack Obama, or the skirt Hillary Clinton. These issues mean nothing when democracy, poor and middle classes are being betrayed, through the principle of property rights over human rights. The commercial classes and oligarchy put this principle into play through class laws and slavery. I say try all complicit war criminals. Impeach the worst, but above all do not vote for the same class ideology, class party, that is not "independent" of corporate fascist imperial interests. Real independence, democracy, can only become a reality if a new party disassociates itself from this corrupted ideology, class standards, corrupted middle layers, that reproduces through this corrupted mechanism between the oligarchy and middle layers, by negating all hierarchies, within and external to the Global class system. We need an international approach to this class rot and imperialism. Evil is normalized through Corporate fascism and we must replace that system.

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» RE: Class is the Enemy! Posted by: LeftCoastProgressive
» RE: Class is the Enemy! Posted by: rinthy
» RE: Class is the Enemy! Posted by: Perfectclue
» RE: Class is the Enemy! Posted by: zyxwvut
Terms of Debate
Posted by: marxalot on Jun 21, 2007 4:16 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Does torture produce good information?

Is it immoral?

These are academic questions. The terms of debate should be this: Does the U.S. want to be compared to the Nazis in world opinion. Because that is the comparison that's come a-begging.

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Torture is entrenched in the American culture
Posted by: Abushite on Jun 21, 2007 4:27 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In Texas a passenger gets out of a car to assist someone ,
the howling mob descends and beats him to death. A member of the KKK is jailed for killing a negro. Paris Hilton - the howling mob demand her stoning. Guantanamo is pronounced Gitmo just in case someone figures it out that this is where humans are tortured.
Mexicans are tortured as they try to find a better life - their would be employers shuffle their feet. Cheney promotes water boarding as a nation sport ahead of English as the official language.
If you are declared insane you may not buy a gun to kill your
classmates. Hamas are elected by a democratic process -
Israil gets funding from the US to destroy them. H, Clinton supports the illegal invasion and subsequent occupation of a country that was no threat.
H>C. is happy to sleep with someone who finds torture repugnant and uncivilized.
The US fear the war crimes tribunal - Why ?

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Interrogators' Rule of Thumb
Posted by: HughScott on Jun 21, 2007 4:36 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
People who believe torture works are those who would surrender to it the quickest.

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Nothing but America haters
Posted by: kbest on Jun 21, 2007 5:47 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Blame the United States for everything. Exaggerate everything to "get Bush". Make things up like flushing a Koran, which never happened, yet that caused the deaths of many people.
The people who caused the abuse at Abu Ghraib were punished. Let's put it behind us.
Finally, sleep deprivation is not torture, holding someone in a hot or cold cell is not torture, loud music is not torture unless it is hip-hop or Barry Manilow.
Prisoners in Gitmo are given new prayer rugs, Korans, and a diet conducive to their religion. Average weight gain is 20 lbs. Yet, comrades of these prisoners on the other hand capture someone, put drills thru the hands and heads of those they kidnap, slit their throats sometimes to the point of beheading. That's what I have moral outrage against, and so do most Americans.

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» RE: Nothing but America haters Posted by: JSquercia
» RE: Nothing but America haters - Yup! Posted by: Michael Boldin
» RE: Nothing but America haters Posted by: zachsmommy
» RE: Nothing but America haters Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: Nothing but America haters Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: Nothing but America haters Posted by: LeftCoastProgressive
» RE: Nothing but America haters Posted by: leafsong1
» Hello Posted by: Lincoln fan
» TROLL: 14 Blog 0 Posted by: BenCaxton12
» hey! Posted by: schokoprinz
» RE: Nothing but America haters Posted by: civilized european
Us
Posted by: uncleeddie on Jun 21, 2007 6:20 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But why do they hate us?

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» RE: Us Posted by: JSquercia
» RE: Us Posted by: uncleeddie
» RE: Us Posted by: Lauren
Torture, responsibility and a free society....
Posted by: Michael Boldin on Jun 21, 2007 6:59 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The actions of this government are completely repugnant to the ideals of a free society. It doesn't matter what they're classified as - extreme interrogations, torture, or whatever....it's wrong.

period.

And, on top of it, everyone who is involved in these activities is in direct violation of the Constitution, because there's absolutely nothing in there that authorizes the federal government, its agents, or its hired hands to act in such a way.

Some follow up reading:

"Should the US Military be Allowed to Use Torture?" - click here

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How to get to the truth
Posted by: mizipi on Jun 21, 2007 7:22 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As an American who would like more information from my government, maybe it is time to punish those responsible for the "dubious" data that resulted in the beginning of the Iraqi war. All we have to do is have congressional hearings and use the same techniques to gather information as was (is) being used in Gitmo And Abu Gharib. Rumsfield once stated he knew where the WMD's were hidden, yet he has not disclosed this info to the American public (nor the military), so I say we get to the truth. I could go on and on................nothing, NOTHING will be done to anyone in the current US Government for any crime committed. Think Ollie North and John Poindexter from the Reagan years. The US is no more a Christian nation than Iraq. Our Constitution and international treaties are nothing more than words on paper. Justice is spelled J-U-$-T-I-C-E. Vietnam and Iraq..............two wars in my lifetime fought for nothing more than the enjoyment of rich people playing army, using the taxpayers money to finance their enjoyment. Some people like violence, death and destruction..............others like peace, life and building something new. May the people of Iraq and Afghanistan know peace.

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» RE: How to get to the truth..HUZZAH! Posted by: LeftCoastProgressive
As a 4th year Doctoral Candidate in Psych, there's more of the story to tell....
Posted by: pjlewis_451 on Jun 21, 2007 7:29 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The complicitity runs deep. Unfortunately, the field of psychology has a long, but hushed history of direct and indirect involvement in research funded by our government to understand the limits of psychological corecion and torture. Zimbardo's Stanford Prison Experiment (1971) and Stanley Milgram (1963) are two of many examples of how government grant money was used ostensibly to finance research aimed at determining how someone like Hitler could have enlisted the cooperation of others to murder millions. However, Milgram's and Zimbardo's research and a variety of other related research projects have, instead, been utilized to determine whether average people will comply in the performance of torture against another person. In fact, while Zimbardo's research startled most researchers, including Zimbardo, his experimental data contributed to informing the 30-40 year effort (which is still on-going) by the CIA and the U.S. Government to mature and perfect its torture techniques and overall torture paradigm.

My graduate school hosted a symposium last month on the subject of psychologists' involvement in military torture. The panelists included Dr. Frank Summers, Dr. Gary Walls, and Dr. Brad Olson. The APA's ethics chair, Dr. Stephen Behnke, was also in attendance after informing the panel the day before that he would fly in from his Washington office to attend. Summers, Walls, and Olson criticized the APA for a loop-hole in its ethics code in which a psychologist may obey any order, including orders to torture if these orders are delivered by appropriate governing authorities:

1.02: CONFLICTS BETWEEN ETHICS AND LAW, REGULATIONS, OR OTHER GOVERNING LEGAL AUTHORITY

If psychologists’ ethical responsibilities conflict with law, regulations, or other governing legal authority, psychologists make known their commitment to the Ethics Code and take steps to resolve the conflict. If the conflict is unresolvable via such means, psychologists may adhere to the requirements of the law, regulations, or other governing legal authority (APA, 2003)

It should be noted that in regards to the loop-hole in the APA ethics code, Behnke admitted that the APA had "dropped the ball." Nevertheless Summers, and in particular, Walls, continued unabashed in their critical review of APA policy and severely critized any psychologists' involvement in such military operations.

Behnke attempted to minimize the outrage and sought a compromise. The panel opposed any such compromise short of a moratorium ending the involvement of psychologists in U.S. Military "concentration camps," as Summers referred to them, citing evidence that less than 5% of Abu Gharib detainees are not obtained from combat and in-fact are not combatants, but rather, civilians implicated by military personnel, government officials, and other civilians motivated by the promise of reward money for delivering suspects that provide terror-related intelligence.

For a summary of controversary from inside the APA, here's a link to a journal article by Summers that chronicles his efforts to encourage an investigation into the APA's policies of psychologists' involvement in CIA and military prison interrogations:
Summer's Article

And finally, here's a bbc video showing a live 48-hour demo of actual guantanamo torture tactics...watch this and tell me "stress positions," etc. aren't torture:

Torture Demo Video

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» APA and torture Posted by: fanny666
TORTURE IS ABOUT HURTING PEOPLE FOR FUN
Posted by: VZEQICVA on Jun 21, 2007 8:20 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
People put in charge of others with no rules or consequences sink to incredible levels of cruelty in very little time. Recently a college professor experimented with volunteer students and found that the prisoner/guard problems left unchecked were out of hand in 36 hours. His 2 week experiment was halted. The best information/intelligence is bought and paid for. Cash. Money talks and it's painless. Our administration has a sadistic streak and they enjoy it. Thanks, ANNA

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» nothin new Posted by: schokoprinz
The buck stops here.
Posted by: Lincoln fan on Jun 21, 2007 9:57 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In any organization, civil or military, the top manager is responsible. It's an axiom, "The boss can delegate authority but he can't delegate responsibility". A general is responsible for the actions of every person in his command. A CEO is responsible for the workplace actions of every employee.

Apparently American citizens don't understand where the buck stops. The curse of Democracy is that with freedom comes responsibility. The buck stops at the feet of every citizen. It's our government and we're ultimately responsible for its actions.
Bob Reichenbach,
Director, The Lincoln Initaitive.

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This is not new with Bush
Posted by: fanny666 on Jun 21, 2007 10:54 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The 1963 KUBARK Interrogation Manual lays out the foundation for techniques of psychological torture- based on the research of psychologist Donald Hebb. Sensory depravation and internal locus of control (making the prisoner feel that his pain is his own fault through stress positions) are the bases for the techniques seen at Abu Ghraib and Gitmo.

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Frat Boy Hazing
Posted by: EncinoM on Jun 22, 2007 6:52 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
can some one provide me with a definition of torture. Yopu mention Abu Graib,all that happend ther was a little frat boy fun.

Yes, I know progressives don't like frats, and not often asked to join so you wouldn;t know what goes on. The dog pile, and other tactics were humiliation, not torture. Some of the definitions floated about would equcate torture with telling insults to prisoners.

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