AlterNet / By Greg Grandin
comments_imageCOMMENTS: 206

Free Speech is Alive and Well in Venezuela

The media portrays the Venezuelan government's refusal to renew the license of a broadcaster that's tried to take downt he government as an assault on democracy. They're only telling half the story.
June 22, 2007  |  
 
 
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The government of Venezuela decided not to renew a broadcast license for RCTV, one of the oldest and largest opposition-controlled TV stations in the country, when its 20-year term expired on May 27. The US media, in keeping with its reporting on Venezuela for the last 8 years, has seized upon this opportunity to portray this as an assault on "freedom of the press."

It's not clear why a TV station that would never get a broadcast license in the United States or any other democratic country should receive one in Venezuela. But this is the one question that doesn't seem to come up in any of the news reports or editorials here.

RCTV actively participated in the U.S.-backed coup that briefly overthrew Venezuela's democratically elected President Hugo Chavez in 2002. The station promoted the coup government, reported only the pro-coup version of events. It censored and suppressed the news as the coup fell apart.

Even ignoring RCTV's role in the coup, its broadcast license would have been revoked years ago in the U.S., Europe, or any country that regulates the public airwaves. During the oil strike of 2002-2003, the station repeatedly called on people to join in and help topple the government. The station has also fabricated accusations of murder by the government, using graphic and violent images to promote its hate-filled views.

The whole idea that freedom of expression is under attack in Venezuela is a joke to anyone who has been there in the last eight years. Most of the media in Venezuela is still controlled by people who are vehemently (sometimes violently) opposed to the government. This will be true even after RCTV switches from broadcast to cable and satellite media. All over the broadcast media you can hear denunciations of the president and the government of the kind that you would not hear in the United States on a major national broadcast network. Imagine Rush Limbaugh during the Clinton impeachment, times fifty, but with much less regard for factual accuracy.

Pick up a newspaper -- El Universal and El Nacional are two of the biggest -- and the vast majority of the headlines are trying to make the government look bad. Turn on the radio and most of what you will hear is also anti-government. Television now has two state-run channels, but these only counterbalance the rest of the programming that is opposition-controlled. Venezuela has a more oppositional media than we have in the United States.

In fact, if the government carries through on its promise to turn RCTV's broadcast frequency over to the public, for a diverse array of programming, then this move will actually increase freedom of expression in Venezuela - rather than suppressing it, as the media and some opportunistic, ill-informed politicians here have maintained.

Sadly, some human rights officials here have also, without knowing much of the details, jumped on the media and political bandwagon. In a press release this week, José Miguel Vivanco, Americas director at Human Rights Watch, said that "The move to shut down RCTV is a serious blow to freedom of expression in Venezuela." (Of course RCTV will not be "shut down," since it can continue to distribute its programs through cable and satellite media). But in an interview the same week Vivanco gave a different view, criticizing "those who claim that the fact that the Chavez government is not renewing the license for RCTV, per se implies a violation of freedom of expression. That is nonsense. . . you are not entitled, as a private company, to get your contract renewed with the government forever." So why is a station that has repeatedly violated the most basic rules of any broadcast license entitled to another 20-year state-sanctioned franchise?

It is not surprising that a monopolized media here would defend the "right" of right-wing media moguls to control the airwaves in Venezuela. Still it would be nice if we could get both sides of the story here - like Venezuelans do from their major media, which is right now saturated with broadcasts and articles against (as well as for) the government's decision. Then Americans could make up their own minds about whether this is really a "free speech" issue. Is that really too much to ask from our own "free press?"


Greg Grandin teaches Latin American history at New York University and is the author of a number of books, including the just published Empire's Workshop: Latin America, the United States, and the Rise of the New Imperialism.
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American coverage of Chavez is never balanced
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Posted by: A. Burr on Jun 22, 2007 12:18 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In all democratic, countries getting a broadcast license renewed is not automatic and just because it's not renewed has nothing to do with the suppression of free speech.

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And these same people shut down 2 stations during the coup
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Rune on Jun 22, 2007 1:42 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I agree with the author that there is a strong right wing bias to most of the news media in Venezuela, which I have visited since the mid-1970s. During the coup, right wing media leaders with backing from the CIA and immediate support from the Bush administration wasted no time in shutting down two stations, Catia TV and Vive TV, that they did not control. They then set about using the sort of techniques one would expect of Fox News: false reports that Chavez had resigned, misleading, partial street scenes that gave the impression of troops firing at innocent people in the street at Chavez's command or popular support for the coup (which they claimed was not a coup but the filling of a "power vacuum") when there was only limited support from the business class minority in Caracas, and a staged swearing in of a new president while they were still hunting for Chavez (who, later, bravely presented himself so no one else would be harmed), and so forth. They sure didn't seem concerned about free speech, then!

Here is another's description:

=-=-=-=
Thus a rapidly and steadily more brazen deception campaign was mounted, rapidly joined by the Venezuelan private press, which ended up running a grossly hostile campaign against the government. El Universal daily and Radio Caracas Television, Globovision and Venevision TV networks were already actively preparing the media-military coup, channeling information and systematically harassing the constitutional government and the head of state.

During the coup, the same disinformation gang cut off the broadcast the president's speech to the people and repeated lie after lie, unleashing violent incidents that would subsequently serve to justify the subversive operation. Meanwhile, the representatives of the new "order" were destroying state television program material.

Then the communications junta shamelessly spread the false information that Chavez had resigned, silenced all public pronouncements by members of the government, and the played up declarations in favor of the criminal coup. One of these was made by Ambassador Shapiro, who affirmed that April 11 was an extraordinary day in the history of Venezuela.

In the morning of Saturday, April 13, speaking before more than 30,000 people at rally in the municipality of Guira de Melena, Habana province, in the presence of President Fidel Castro, Bruno Rodriguez, Cuban ambassador to the United Nations, clearly denounced the media disinformation campaign in Venezuela. "The truth is that a coup d'etat has taken place in Venezuela and that a sellout and . junta is usurping, by means of force, the power invested in President Chavez by the Venezuelan people, with hopes of erasing decades of injustice and corruption by applying Bolivar's ideals."

Other lies followed the one alleging Chavez's resignation, including the assertion that Chavez had sought asylum in Cuba, which was rapidly refuted by Havana.

Indeed, the media complicity with the coup organizers was so strong that when the latter attempted to take the imprisoned president out of the country to the United States, it was planned to transport him aboard a private plane registered in the United States in the name of Gustavo Cisneros, the owner of the Venevision TV network.
=-=-=-=

And they might have gotten away with it were it not for thousands and outraged citizens--dozens of whom died in the resistance--taking over the state television station to let people know what was really happening and rallying support for their elected president and legislature. . . .

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the good, the bad, and the ugly...
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Posted by: Blade on Jun 22, 2007 2:00 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Chavez has derided student protesters as U.S. "pawns," saying they do Washington's bidding by taking to the streets. Students reject the allegations as totally unfounded, arguing university groups have taken it upon themselves to protest government efforts aimed at muzzling the opposition."
http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/news.php?newsno=2332

What to know, what to know?

Sometimes Chavez stories sound inspiring. Here, he sounds like Nixon or Bush.

I just don't trust Communism. Even though I am working class and agree with Universal all of the time.

I just don't see how people keep going without the "self-determination" factor.

I don't see how a society can give up "self-determination" without coercion, and totalitarianism.

I do like the way the Venezuelan aristocracy is eating crow, now, though.

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R. V.
[Report this comment]
Posted by: RDVSR on Jun 22, 2007 3:53 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is hard for me to realize that there are people in the U.S. who will support a dictator who is the enemy of freedom of thought and expression. It would surely be nice if these people would emigrate to Venezuela.

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» Great Idea!! Posted by: PJAW
» Elected dictator????? Posted by: mizipi
» Putin was elected, too..... Posted by: mjabele
» Viewed by whom...(Putin) Posted by: justaguy
» I didn't offer an analysis. Posted by: justaguy
» I've no problem.. Posted by: justaguy
» RE: I've no problem.. Posted by: mjabele
» Fair enough. Posted by: justaguy
» RE: . V. Posted by: Wacre
» RE: I don't understand, either. Posted by: drmflorida
» Who do you think is supporting Bush? Posted by: psychochurch
» Who's the dictator ? Posted by: harpy

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No mention of the 10's of thousands who protested
[Report this comment]
Posted by: kbest on Jun 22, 2007 4:01 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This story is as biased as they come. Ten's of thousands protested the government taking over and making this a state run station. Hugo Chavez is a despot, no doubt about it. He does not tolerate dissent. How about a story on his political prisoners?

I too wish his supporters here would just emigrate to Venezuela. Good riddance.

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» How ignorant can you be? Posted by: mizipi

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BOYCOTT THE CORPORATE MEDIA: IN THEIR FACES!
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Perfectclue on Jun 22, 2007 4:03 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Corporate media, through its corrupted ideology, and elites routinely lie for corporate and imperial interests. It is wholesale, malicious, deliberate lying, either through ommission or outright falsification. It doesn't matter whether it is private or public media, both NPR radio and PBS routinely use the same "expert" idiots, "officials", neocon think tanks, like the Amerikan Enterprise Institute, or Brookings Institute, which cheerlead both Zionism, Amerikanism, and corporate interests.

If the corporate media actually believed its own class ideologies, whether class liberalism, or neocon/ziocons, they would challange or at least allow real opposition to take on their corrupt views. They don't, they are after all the mouthpiece of Corporate class interests, even degenerating to the imperial and fascist cheerleading, warmongering against Iran, Iraq, and any country that challanges Amerikan Empire and its liberal class whores, the European nations that grovel in its wake.

I stopped watching corporate News, cable news, and take in the missing pieces on internet democracy, with sites like Counterpunch, Democracy Now, Znet, Common Dreams, and of course Alternet. We all need to start looking at the ideological framework of class elites, but also we must keep track of corruption within democratic socialist policies, and encourage democratic discussions within the Left. So far Chavez has done this, and the public has at least been involved in its own transformation towards socialist democracy. Too often Stalinism, corrupted, isolated national revolutions are mislabled "Communism", because until the system is based on an international level, the global class system can still corrupt and isolate national revolutions.

Once enough countries shift towards this international democracy, without class masters, and all oligarchies, and its class elites, hierarchies are dissolved, by growing the middle layers into a fully developed social principle, the claim to social wealth and moral center will have produced a democratic international mechanism, that will reproduce universal standards, instead of the class standards, and lies to nuke Iran, invade Lebanon, support Israeli aggressions, steal Iraqi Oil, and build military bases aroudn the world. All that will disappear, as soon as we make the Corporate media irrelevant and the first step is: BOYCOTT THEIR ASSES

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How blind can you be?
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Posted by: Boomerang on Jun 22, 2007 7:18 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yes, the station was biased, therefore it didn't deserve freedom of speech.

Did I read that correctly? How idiotic is that statement! Leftists will rationalize anything to defend Chavez, who is rapidly sliding towards dictatorship. Rule by decree? Nope, nothing fishy about that, it's to help him carry out "the people's revolution." How gullible can you be?

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» RE: How blind can you be? Posted by: drmflorida

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How about a compromise
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Posted by: chaoslegs on Jun 22, 2007 7:31 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
For all the trolls out there.

You give it up. If PBS did the same thing, you would be calling it treason in the US.

I will agree to support any call of something as censorship IF Chavez tries to end the license early. Remember this was a renewal that didn't happen. Most of the really bad crap this "news" organization did was awhile ago. Did Chavez pull the license after the coup ended? No, the license didn't get renewed years later.

There is a reason a license isn't forever and it is called accountability. I realize it is a tough word for conservatives to say (imagine the Fonz trying to say "wrong"). However, that is what the renewal process is, holding the licensee accountable for their actions.

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» RE: How about a compromise Posted by: badkitty

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Hurricane Hugo
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Posted by: OneAcre2012 on Jun 22, 2007 7:41 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I've always been under the impression that the people of Venezuela who have the biggest problem with Chavez are the ones who have money, as opposed to most of the people who don't have money who support Chavez because he's trying to look out for them. Of course he loves all the attention he gets around the world, positive or negative, because no press is bad press for Chavez. His main challenge is to orient Venezuela for our post-peak-oil world, but by funnelling so much into education and health care for the poorer folks, in 50 years they'll be in better shape than they would had a pro-U.S., pro-big business person been running the country this whole time, letting everybody starve while all the profits go north to people who don't need them

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Chavez is blowing about $3.4 billion dollars of the people's money to stay in power...
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Posted by: Illiteratilumen on Jun 22, 2007 7:57 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Some interesting developments in Venezuela. Chavez has been spending money like a neo-con at a Vegas brothel on all this fancy military hardware. The only thing is - the hardware is USELESS against any potential foreign aggressors, specifically the U.S. That means the only targets his fancy new toys would have would be his own citizens (dissenters?) or perhaps some smaller S. American or Caribbean countries if he decides they need liberation (unlikely).

I don't think conquest is the purpose of this acquisition, though. I think Chavez is scared shitless of getting overthrown in a military coup. How does all of this hardware help, then? Well for starters his pre-2005 military was outfitted with mostly American hardware and his fighter pilots were all American trained on F-16's. His pre-2005 military's loyalty was definitely suspect, especially his air force. So he's building a parallell military now, I think. Things like airplanes, tanks and submarines require a LOT of people in uniform to keep them running and I'm sure he is staffing the officer ranks with plenty of loyal communistas.

If Chavez was truly interested in staving off a US invasion he should have gone low-tech and bought a bunch of AK-47's, RPG 7's, LOTS of anti-aircraft missiles, lots of explosives and then built a huge network of underground bunkers and tunnels. I'm just curious why a man who many of the people on this site profess to be some kind of great hero of the people has a need to squander his nation's wealth on hardware such as this? I see no realistic purpose for this other than internal suppression by force.

Here is a link to an article on the subject.

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» Who is getting inscensed? Posted by: Illiteratilumen
» Do you have any idea... Posted by: justaguy
» You have no idea Posted by: brunowe
» You are dodging the question at hand... Posted by: Illiteratilumen

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Apologist for Chavez
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Posted by: davcrock on Jun 22, 2007 7:59 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
sicken me. He's not a socialist liberator, a hero to the left, or any of the other bull presented regularly here. A democracy allows all views to be heard. Chavez has engaged in a consistent persecution of all of those opposed to him. Some go as far to suggest that elections have been manipulated. Foreign Policy Magazine, no right wing media outlet, has even said he is the model for tyranny for modern times. His economic policy relies on selling oil to the US. Despite rising economic growth due to rising cost of oil, the poor in Venezuela have seen falling percentage of income and a falling standard of living.

Support for Chavez among the left is one reason that mainstream America does not accept the left.

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» chavez is right! Posted by: EasterBunny
» RE: chavez is right! Posted by: davcrock
» Habla espanol? Posted by: ScottP
» RE: Apologist for Chavez Posted by: hot karlrove
» RE: Apologist for Chavez Posted by: davcrock
» RE: Apologist for Chavez Posted by: saml
» OH MY GOD, HE SELLS OIL?????? Posted by: justaguy

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Freedom of the Press in the USA ....
[Report this comment]
Posted by: picket on Jun 22, 2007 8:26 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
as ranked by Reporters Without Borders[2006]...out of 168 nations : USA 53...... UK 27, Canada 16, North Korea 168...


Another educational article "Hugo Chavez Versus RCTV"..Bart Jones 5/30/07
RCTV 's effort to topple Chavez in 2002, a station owned by members of the nations wealthy oligarchy. The station continued for another 5 years, as stated in the article , and can operate on cable or via satellite.

People took to the street, in part, because some of their favorite programs were off the air and now only available on cable TV.

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What's the real concern?
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Posted by: rg on Jun 22, 2007 9:12 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
North Americans have never been concerned about the welfare of Latin Americans, or the growth of democracy in the region, so why all of the interest in Hugo Chávez and the people of Venezuela?
You parents, grandparents, and your great grandparents were similarly blind to the plight of Latin Americans.
The Monroe Doctrine, that carta blanca to ride roughshod over the hemisphere while turning a blind eye to what your European partners in crime did, gave you the "express right" to intervene in everything in the region........everything that wasn't in your interest. It was never about helping the people.
Your government went to war, overtly or covertly at the whim of corporate barons, to protect their interests, not to help the people.
As I write this, GW Stupid is pressing the flesh with the president of Vietnam, a country that is hardly the paragon of democracy, huh?
No, the real reason that North Americans are feeling so strongly about opposing Chávez is because of petroleum, and losing control of the larder.
Why aren't you feeling equally indignant at slave labor in China? Or sweat shops in Saipan; the same ones that were visited by Trent Lott and given the 'Murican seal of approval?
Why aren't you boycotting WalMart, who does nine billion Dollars of business with China yearly? The same company that is more comfortable with US taxpayers subsidizing their employee's health care than digging into their substantial profits that come from low-wage goods produced in China.
Why aren't you training your guns and bayonets on Saudi Arabia or Nigeria?
Why aren't you incensed at the dictators of some of the former Soviet Republics?
Why aren't you making the Tibet issue the topic for future trade with China?
Why aren't you appalled at Robert Mugabe?
Why are you allowing Darfur to creep under the radar?
Why; because after so many generations of believing a lie, you still think that Latin America is your back yard, and what's good for the USA must be good for the entire hemisphere; that's why so many of you still believe that the Cuban embargo is a good idea.
When Latin Americans start thinking for themselves, and they attempt to unravel 150 years of paternalism, they're the enemy of freedom.

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» RE: What's the real concern? Posted by: dangerouslysane
» RE: What's the real concern? Posted by: dangerouslysane
» Excellent Points rg Posted by: WitchyNy

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sad day for Human Rights Watch
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Posted by: uncleeddie on Jun 22, 2007 9:28 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Any media form that promoted a coup against a democratically elected leader acts against democracy and thus human rights. The greater the roles of everyday people in their own affairs the greater the chances for human rights there will be. It is surely a sad day when Human Rights Watch would try to defend an obviously anti-democratic entity like RCTV. José Miguel Vivanco should be relieved of his duties, pending a retraction, as his actions are an embarrassment to anyone who believes in rule of law, true democracy and thus human rights. Unless Vivanco can show his actions based on ignorance or misinformation then surely politics are his motives. Politics in an organization like Human Rights Watch is a death sentence for any type of credibility.

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"Freedom of the Press" in Venezuela
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Posted by: brunowe on Jun 22, 2007 9:54 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Let's start with the March 2005 law which has made it a crime to “insult” public authorities and institutions. Reporters Without Borders (RSF) reported that Ibéyise Pacheco, of the daily El Nacional and a harsh critic of the government who had accused a soldier of falsely obtaining a lawyer’s certificate. Pacheco was convicted and put under house arrest on 15 March but after apologising to the soldier was freed a week later. Although prosecutions aren't widespread, the chilling effect (and the sheer unjustifiability) of such a statute is obvious.

A so-called "social responsibility" law gives the government the power to suppress stories as well. RSF noted that "A Caracas court on 23 January [2007] accused 10 media outlets, including two state-owned TV stations, Canal Metropolitano and Venezolana de Televisión, of “obstructing justice” and banned them from broadcasting anything about the investigation into the November 2004 murder of Judge Danilo Anderson and from citing the name of a key witness. "

Pointing out that RCTV can still transmit over cable and satellite is meaningless as most of its audience was via broadcast.

Finally, the whole coup excuse is merely a pretext. As Human Rights Watch pointed out "Of the three commercial stations accessible in all parts of Venezuela, only RCTV has remained strongly critical of the government. The other two—Venevision and Televen—were themselves accused of supporting the attempted coup and subsequent anti–government protests. But both have since removed virtually all content critical of the government from their programming. "

In short, it wasn't biased news coverage that amounted to supporting a coup, it was continuing to be an anti-Chavez voice. Further, the Chavez government hasn't pointed to one judicial or regulatory finding that the station conspired in the coup nor has any member of the station management even been charged with the same, so the question of if the bias made RCTV part of the conspiracy is, in fact, wide open.

The lengths to which the government will go is suggested in it's treatment of Globovision. As the NYTimes reported, the government has issued a warning to that station on the grounds that "semioticians hired by the government had determined that video run by the channel of an assassination attempt in 1981 against Pope John Paul II could be interpreted as hostile to Mr. Chávez. "

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» Excuse me... Posted by: justaguy
» Your haven't cited any facts Posted by: brunowe
» Don't be so obtuse. Posted by: justaguy
» Did you even read the article? Posted by: justaguy

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Make What You Will
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Posted by: apophenia_monkey on Jun 22, 2007 9:58 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
but a massive tuna fleet moved out of venuzualia to maintain private control of itself.

the man is consolidating power and folks are either adapting or moving on.

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» RE: Make What You Will Posted by: Wacre
» RE: Make What You Will Posted by: ceti

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Committee to Protect Jouranlists..
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Posted by: brunowe on Jun 22, 2007 10:06 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...has also condemned the shutdown, finding the government's actions to be arbitrary.

It also points out that the state-owned media has simply become a megaphone for Chavez, packed with political loyalists.

It does a good breakdown of what this coup "support" consisted of.
"On April 11, 2002, following three days of opposition protests, the government preempted broadcasts by local television stations for a message from Chávez. During the address, private stations continued covering the protests using split screens. Chávez accused the stations of conspiring to overthrow his government and ordered them closed. At around midnight, the president was ousted by a group of high-ranking military officers"

"During his [Chavez] ouster, the four main private TV channels featured scant coverage of pro-Chávez demonstrations and instead showed cartoons and movies. Many analysts alleged that private media executives had colluded to impose a news blackout, heeding instructions given by Carmona. The executives claimed that they could not cover the story for fear that Chávez's backers, who had harassed several media outlets earlier in the year, would attack their staff or their offices. No media owner or executive has ever been charged with involvement in the coup."

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Fair and Balanced News in the USA....Not
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Posted by: picket on Jun 22, 2007 11:47 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There is an excellent article "Fox News & Venezuela" Scott Liebertz .... it is an analysis of how the US network has deliberately misinformed its viewers.

The New York Times is for corporate interests and is slanted against Chavez for that reason. "The Record of the Newspaper of Record."..Stephen Lendman ....the article describes how "yellow journalism" is used in the Chavez debate.

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Its not hard to make any government look bad
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Posted by: corazon on Jun 22, 2007 12:23 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Governments are run by extremely fallible people. Their prone to be currupt, busy bodies, "that only mean good". These people are out for themselves and willing to make tax payers foot the bill for their largesses. Rob peter to pay paul mentalities run the government. Republicans want corporate welfare. Democrats want plain old welfare. In a warfare/welfare Government system its those with connections to the party in charge that get to rob the taxpayers of the most money.

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GOOD MOVE, CHAVEZ; BAD ARGUMENT, GRANDIN
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Posted by: akib6ub9 on Jun 22, 2007 12:31 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I don't like the argument that "this type of a media outlet would never fly in the US": If a media outlet here supported a coup in the US, then it would be shut down. So why are we all upset that Chavez is doing that? True, the media is hypocritical when they condemn Chavez, when they know (or should know) the history of media suppression here, but ultimately that is a stupid argument. The US is not ideal in any way. We have a tightly controlled media and political system. Controlled by who? By a small elite percentage of the population. That, my friends, is not democracy. So comparing Chavez’s actions to US actions points out the hypocrisy of the US, but is not a good argument for shutting down RCTV.
So what is a good argument? At a basic level, the media is supposed to be a public service helping us to understand our political and social environment so that we can make informed democratic decisions. That is the public service of the media. RCTV and the media in the US both fail at this service by distorting our perceptions of reality (to say the least!). Often times, they knowingly lie, distort facts etc. But fundamentally, they are biased BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT DEMOCRATIC INSTITUTIONS THEMSELVES!
So what makes sense: shut down the top-down, hierarchical RCTV (and the corporate media here) and replace them with democratically controlled media institutions… that if they don’t provide us with their public service objective we can democratically change them!
Media that is top-down and hierarchical, whether it is capitalists or political elites at the top – will inherently be biased to reflect the interests of the top. This is true of the US and was also true of the old USSR. The solution: democratize the media!

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» I didn't Posted by: saml
» No. Posted by: justaguy

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Sam Livingston
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Posted by: saml on Jun 22, 2007 12:36 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Conservatives believe that human nature is inherently flawed -
- so they create balance of power that keeps everyone in check
- result: American Democracy, free speech, & increased standard of living for everyone, huge influx of immigrants seeking better life (like me).

Liberals believe that human nature is fundamentally good
- so they look for best human to lead them: Lenin, Mao, Chomsky, Chaves
- result Totalitarian Communism: millions are exterminated as enemies of revolution, millions starve to death, millions trying to escape.

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» RE: Sam Livingston Posted by: Wacre
» RE: Sam Livingston Posted by: saml
» RE: Sam Livingston Posted by: Wacre
» Earth to Saml Posted by: justaguy
» saml clueless Posted by: EasterBunny
» RE: saml clueless Posted by: saml
» Noam Chomsky Posted by: Illiteratilumen
» RE: Noam Chomsky Posted by: saml
» RE: Sam Livingston Posted by: akib6ub9
» RE: Sam Livingston Posted by: saml
» RE: Sam Livingston Posted by: akib6ub9
» part 1/2 Posted by: akib6ub9
» part 2/2 Posted by: akib6ub9
» RE: part 2/2 Posted by: saml
» RE: Full reply pt 1 Posted by: saml
» RE: Full reply pt 2 Posted by: saml

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Chavez: Victory for the People
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Posted by: sofla100 on Jun 22, 2007 2:55 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It always amazes me that people call Chavez a tyrant, when, in reality, Bush II is a far bigger tyrant if there ever was one. Who else has imprisoned hundreds, at Guantanamo, for who knows exactly what? Who else secretly spies on his people and nullifies laws with "signing statements," to get what he wants? As for Bush II obtaining power, just look at the 2000 election fixit job in Florida for a thrown election if there ever was one. With brother Jebber and hatchet lady Katherine Harris, along with thousands of people "kicked off the rolls," hanging chads, voter registration purges, etc., the election outcome here in Florida was determined even before the first vote was cast. And, then they criticize Chavez. As for the recent scandal over the TV station, could you imagine if a USA station openly called for a coup or assasination on America's president, just how long would that last!

But, lastly, the "Economist" magazine just had an article that USA exports to Venezuela are booming. Tens of thousands pf Venezuelans in the lower and middle classes are acquiring the means to obtain consumer goods previously "off limits" to them as their incomes and livelihoods have improved. Many businesses are also thriving catering to the rising prospects of the people. The "Bolivarian Revolution" is in progress and moving the people forward.

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» Agree with you 100%..... Posted by: mjabele

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Venezuela
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Posted by: SEDGFLD on Jun 22, 2007 4:14 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We can't expect a truthful analysis about a person this country's leaders want to politically ruin from a mainstream and governmentally compliant media whose members (they're not journalists) are either too self-serving or too afraid to tell the truth about events concerning this country. Our media is useless. Anytime you have to check the information you get from the majority of the media in your country with other sources, there's a problem.

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re:What's the real concern?
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Posted by: dangerouslysane on Jun 22, 2007 5:11 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I had to give this post a top rating. The questions you raised are right on the money.

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A challenge to Chavez supporters...
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Posted by: Illiteratilumen on Jun 22, 2007 9:41 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There has been plenty of good discussion on the topic of Venzuela and Hugo Chavez and I'm happy to get some additional viewpoints on the topic. I would like to pose a challenge to Chavez supporters to get a clearer picture of their position.

Hugo Chavez has dictatorial powers. That is a fact. One can debate the definition of "dictator" all day but the fact of the matter is he has deliberately sought out and been legally empowered to create new laws by decree. That makes him, for all practical purposes, THE government. I cannot, for the life of me, understand how any progressive can support a system of government that follows this kind of model.

My challenge to Chavez supporters:

Please explain how this style of government, specifically a single leader with this degree of authority, will ultimately benefit the Venezuelan people.

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» It is for 18 months only. Posted by: justaguy
» That depends..... Posted by: justaguy
» RE: That depends..... Posted by: Illiteratilumen
» Ummm, it already has. Posted by: justaguy
» Yes, let's keep watching... Posted by: mjabele
» Oh, so we're down to... Posted by: justaguy
» Oh and BTW.... Posted by: justaguy
» Did you even read my post? Posted by: Illiteratilumen
» Falsely analagous hypo... Posted by: Wesley69
» RE: Falsely analagous hypo... Posted by: Illiteratilumen
» My last response... Posted by: Wesley69
» Well said (nm) Posted by: justaguy
» Wrong re Executive Order Posted by: brunowe
» Disinformation. Posted by: justaguy
» RE: Disinformation. Posted by: mjabele
» Good points, however... Posted by: Wesley69
» Agree with you 100%..... Posted by: mjabele

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Zionist propaganda
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Posted by: Ambrose Pare on Jun 23, 2007 12:06 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A Zionist station which has attempted to destabilize the country such that they can install a currupt government with a favorable opinion of Israel.

Of course the Zionist media of North America is going to 'spin' the story. They want control of the media there to install Zionist leaders.

Thats a pretty hurting claim that revoking a stupid TV station is an assult on freedom. TV is a waste of time. Its a TV station, who cares.

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Check out my blog - stancel spencer
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Posted by: Stancel on Jun 26, 2007 1:42 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's about the claims that Hugo Chavez is a dictator. when he isn't.

Stancel Spencer

Link

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BUSH-CHENEY MACHINE STRIKES AGAIN!
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Posted by: chiquita1 on Jun 27, 2007 5:07 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The US has intervened and supported coups in Venezuala so many times it's a wonder there's any non Right Wingers left!
Two US Oil Gluttons picked up their toys and went home. Great! They were a ready conduit of CASH for Right Wing Coups over the years.

The US would love to create conflict in Venezuala to use it as an excuse to intervene and take over the nation's Oil & Gas just like in Iraq! Alas, Chavez is a bit smarter than Saddam was. And poo-poo over a Right Wing station being shut down by a Left Wing government is something South American Right Wing Money Grubbers better get used to!

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Bottom line...
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Posted by: saml on Jun 29, 2007 10:50 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
After reading this thread I can say - these are reasonable people (even if I don't agree with their point of view) who argue the issue based on its merits
- mjabele
- Illiteratilumen
- akib6ub9
- brunowe


On the other hand, these people argue not against opposing posts but against preconceived notions inside their head into which they pigeon-hole everyone disagreeing with them.
These are very ideologically slanted and it cripples their ability to argue rationally.
- justaguy
- Wesley69

A word of advice to “justaguy”– don’t right away ASSUME that people disagreeing with you are: evil, immoral, ignorant or brainwashed. You bias becomes apparent right away – and it makes you look like a high school kid.

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Mr.
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Posted by: sport on Jul 5, 2007 5:34 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The author's naivte, or self-deception, or purposefully misleading commentary, is remarkable. When has a radio station in the U.S. been shut down for reasons of disagreeing with government personnel or policy? Trying to excuse Chavez for his dictatorial activities is the height of self-delusion. Such is the stuff of fanaticism.

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Andromeda
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Posted by: alevander5 on Jul 15, 2007 8:35 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Alternet Comments:

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American coverage of Chavez is never balanced
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Posted by: A. Burr on Jun 22, 2007 12:18 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In all democratic, countries getting a broadcast license renewed is not automatic and just because it's not renewed has nothing to do with the suppression of free speech.

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And these same people shut down 2 stations during the coup
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Posted by: Rune on Jun 22, 2007 1:42 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I agree with the author that there is a strong right wing bias to most of the news media in Venezuela, which I have visited since the mid-1970s. During the coup, right wing media leaders with backing from the CIA and immediate support from the Bush administration wasted no time in shutting down two stations, Catia TV and Vive TV, that they did not control. They then set about using the sort of techniques one would expect of Fox News: false reports that Chavez had resigned, misleading, partial street scenes that gave the impression of troops firing at innocent people in the street at Chavez's command or popular support for the coup (which they claimed was not a coup but the filling of a "power vacuum") when there was only limited support from the business class minority in Caracas, and a staged swearing in of a new president while they were still hunting for Chavez (who, later, bravely presented himself so no one else would be harmed), and so forth. They sure didn't seem concerned about free speech, then!

Here is another's description:

=-=-=-=
Thus a rapidly and steadily more brazen deception campaign was mounted, rapidly joined by the Venezuelan private press, which ended up running a grossly hostile campaign against the government. El Universal daily and Radio Caracas Television, Globovision and Venevision TV networks were already actively preparing the media-military coup, channeling information and systematically harassing the constitutional government and the head of state.

During the coup, the same disinformation gang cut off the broadcast the president's speech to the people and repeated lie after lie, unleashing violent incidents that would subsequently serve to justify the subversive operation. Meanwhile, the representatives of the new "order" were destroying state television program material.

Then the communications junta shamelessly spread the false information that Chavez had resigned, silenced all public pronouncements by members of the government, and the played up declarations in favor of the criminal coup. One of these was made by Ambassador Shapiro, who affirmed that April 11 was an extraordinary day in the history of Venezuela.

In the morning of Saturday, April 13, speaking before more than 30,000 people at rally in the municipality of Guira de Melena, Habana province, in the presence of President Fidel Castro, Bruno Rodriguez, Cuban ambassador to the United Nations, clearly denounced the media disinformation campaign in Venezuela. "The truth is that a coup d'etat has taken place in Venezuela and that a sellout and . junta is usurping, by means of force, the power invested in President Chavez by the Venezuelan people, with hopes of erasing decades of injustice and corruption by applying Bolivar's ideals."

Other lies followed the one alleging Chavez's resignation, including the assertion that Chavez had sought asylum in Cuba, which was rapidly refuted by Havana.

Indeed, the media complicity with the coup organizers was so strong that when the latter attempted to take the imprisoned president out of the country to the United States, it was planned to transport him aboard a private plane registered in the United States in the name of Gustavo Cisneros, the owner of the Venevision TV network.
=-=-=-=

And they might have gotten away with it were it not for thousands and outraged citizens--dozens of whom died in the resistance--taking over the state television station to let people know what was really happening and rallying support for their elected president and legislature. . . .

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the good, the bad, and the ugly...
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Posted by: Blade on Jun 22, 2007 2:00 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Chavez has derided student protesters as U.S. "pawns," saying they do Washington's bidding by taking to the streets. Students reject the allegations as totally unfounded, arguing university groups have taken it upon themselves to protest government efforts aimed at muzzling the opposition."
http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/news.php?newsno=2332

What to know, what to know?

Sometimes Chavez stories sound inspiring. Here, he sounds like Nixon or Bush.

I just don't trust Communism. Even though I am working class and agree with Universal all of the time.

I just don't see how people keep going without the "self-determination" factor.

I don't see how a society can give up "self-determination" without coercion, and totalitarianism.

I do like the way the Venezuelan aristocracy is eating crow, now, though.

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R. V.
[Report this comment]
Posted by: RDVSR on Jun 22, 2007 3:53 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is hard for me to realize that there are people in the U.S. who will support a dictator who is the enemy of freedom of thought and expression. It would surely be nice if these people would emigrate to Venezuela.

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» Great Idea!! Posted by: PJAW
» Elected dictator????? Posted by: mizipi
» Putin was elected, too..... Posted by: mjabele
» Viewed by whom...(Putin) Posted by: justaguy
» I didn't offer an analysis. Posted by: justaguy
» I've no problem.. Posted by: justaguy
» RE: I've no problem.. Posted by: mjabele
» Fair enough. Posted by: justaguy
» RE: . V. Posted by: Wacre
» RE: I don't understand, either. Posted by: drmflorida
» Who do you think is supporting Bush? Posted by: psychochurch
» Who's the dictator ? Posted by: harpy

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No mention of the 10's of thousands who protested
[Report this comment]
Posted by: kbest on Jun 22, 2007 4:01 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This story is as biased as they come. Ten's of thousands protested the government taking over and making this a state run station. Hugo Chavez is a despot, no doubt about it. He does not tolerate dissent. How about a story on his political prisoners?

I too wish his supporters here would just emigrate to Venezuela. Good riddance.

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» How ignorant can you be? Posted by: mizipi

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BOYCOTT THE CORPORATE MEDIA: IN THEIR FACES!
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Posted by: Perfectclue on Jun 22, 2007 4:03 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Corporate media, through its corrupted ideology, and elites routinely lie for corporate and imperial interests. It is wholesale, malicious, deliberate lying, either through ommission or outright falsification. It doesn't matter whether it is private or public media, both NPR radio and PBS routinely use the same "expert" idiots, "officials", neocon think tanks, like the Amerikan Enterprise Institute, or Brookings Institute, which cheerlead both Zionism, Amerikanism, and corporate interests.

If the corporate media actually believed its own class ideologies, whether class liberalism, or neocon/ziocons, they would challange or at least allow real opposition to take on their corrupt views. They don't, they are after all the mouthpiece of Corporate class interests, even degenerating to the imperial and fascist cheerleading, warmongering against Iran, Iraq, and any country that challanges Amerikan Empire and its liberal class whores, the European nations that grovel in its wake.

I stopped watching corporate News, cable news, and take in the missing pieces on internet democracy, with sites like Counterpunch, Democracy Now, Znet, Common Dreams, and of course Alternet. We all need to start looking at the ideological framework of class elites, but also we must keep track of corruption within democratic socialist policies, and encourage democratic discussions within the Left. So far Chavez has done this, and the public has at least been involved in its own transformation towards socialist democracy. Too often Stalinism, corrupted, isolated national revolutions are mislabled "Communism", because until the system is based on an international level, the global class system can still corrupt and isolate national revolutions.

Once enough countries shift towards this international democracy, without class masters, and all oligarchies, and its class elites, hierarchies are dissolved, by growing the middle layers into a fully developed social principle, the claim to social wealth and moral center will have produced a democratic international mechanism, that will reproduce universal standards, instead of the class standards, and lies to nuke Iran, invade Lebanon, support Israeli aggressions, steal Iraqi Oil, and build military bases aroudn the world. All that will disappear, as soon as we make the Corporate media irrelevant and the first step is: BOYCOTT THEIR ASSES

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How blind can you be?
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Posted by: Boomerang on Jun 22, 2007 7:18 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yes, the station was biased, therefore it didn't deserve freedom of speech.

Did I read that correctly? How idiotic is that statement! Leftists will rationalize anything to defend Chavez, who is rapidly sliding towards dictatorship. Rule by decree? Nope, nothing fishy about that, it's to help him carry out "the people's revolution." How gullible can you be?

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» RE: How blind can you be? Posted by: drmflorida

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How about a compromise
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Posted by: chaoslegs on Jun 22, 2007 7:31 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
For all the trolls out there.

You give it up. If PBS did the same thing, you would be calling it treason in the US.

I will agree to support any call of something as censorship IF Chavez tries to end the license early. Remember this was a renewal that didn't happen. Most of the really bad crap this "news" organization did was awhile ago. Did Chavez pull the license after the coup ended? No, the license didn't get renewed years later.

There is a reason a license isn't forever and it is called accountability. I realize it is a tough word for conservatives to say (imagine the Fonz trying to say "wrong"). However, that is what the renewal process is, holding the licensee accountable for their actions.

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» RE: How about a compromise Posted by: badkitty

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Hurricane Hugo
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Posted by: OneAcre2012 on Jun 22, 2007 7:41 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I've always been under the impression that the people of Venezuela who have the biggest problem with Chavez are the ones who have money, as opposed to most of the people who don't have money who support Chavez because he's trying to look out for them. Of course he loves all the attention he gets around the world, positive or negative, because no press is bad press for Chavez. His main challenge is to orient Venezuela for our post-peak-oil world, but by funnelling so much into education and health care for the poorer folks, in 50 years they'll be in better shape than they would had a pro-U.S., pro-big business person been running the country this whole time, letting everybody starve while all the profits go north to people who don't need them

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Chavez is blowing about $3.4 billion dollars of the people's money to stay in power...
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Posted by: Illiteratilumen on Jun 22, 2007 7:57 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Some interesting developments in Venezuela. Chavez has been spending money like a neo-con at a Vegas brothel on all this fancy military hardware. The only thing is - the hardware is USELESS against any potential foreign aggressors, specifically the U.S. That means the only targets his fancy new toys would have would be his own citizens (dissenters?) or perhaps some smaller S. American or Caribbean countries if he decides they need liberation (unlikely).

I don't think conquest is the purpose of this acquisition, though. I think Chavez is scared shitless of getting overthrown in a military coup. How does all of this hardware help, then? Well for starters his pre-2005 military was outfitted with mostly American hardware and his fighter pilots were all American trained on F-16's. His pre-2005 military's loyalty was definitely suspect, especially his air force. So he's building a parallell military now, I think. Things like airplanes, tanks and submarines require a LOT of people in uniform to keep them running and I'm sure he is staffing the officer ranks with plenty of loyal communistas.

If Chavez was truly interested in staving off a US invasion he should have gone low-tech and bought a bunch of AK-47's, RPG 7's, LOTS of anti-aircraft missiles, lots of explosives and then built a huge network of underground bunkers and tunnels. I'm just curious why a man who many of the people on this site profess to be some kind of great hero of the people has a need to squander his nation's wealth on hardware such as this? I see no realistic purpose for this other than internal suppression by force.

Here is a link to an article on the subject.

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» Who is getting inscensed? Posted by: Illiteratilumen
» Do you have any idea... Posted by: justaguy
» You have no idea Posted by: brunowe
» You are dodging the question at hand... Posted by: Illiteratilumen

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Apologist for Chavez
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Posted by: davcrock on Jun 22, 2007 7:59 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
sicken me. He's not a socialist liberator, a hero to the left, or any of the other bull presented regularly here. A democracy allows all views to be heard. Chavez has engaged in a consistent persecution of all of those opposed to him. Some go as far to suggest that elections have been manipulated. Foreign Policy Magazine, no right wing media outlet, has even said he is the model for tyranny for modern times. His economic policy relies on selling oil to the US. Despite rising economic growth due to rising cost of oil, the poor in Venezuela have seen falling percentage of income and a falling standard of living.

Support for Chavez among the left is one reason that mainstream America does not accept the left.

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» chavez is right! Posted by: EasterBunny
» RE: chavez is right! Posted by: davcrock
» Habla espanol? Posted by: ScottP
» RE: Apologist for Chavez Posted by: hot karlrove
» RE: Apologist for Chavez Posted by: davcrock
» RE: Apologist for Chavez Posted by: saml
» OH MY GOD, HE SELLS OIL?????? Posted by: justaguy

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Freedom of the Press in the USA ....
[Report this comment]
Posted by: picket on Jun 22, 2007 8:26 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
as ranked by Reporters Without Borders[2006]...out of 168 nations : USA 53...... UK 27, Canada 16, North Korea 168...


Another educational article "Hugo Chavez Versus RCTV"..Bart Jones 5/30/07
RCTV 's effort to topple Chavez in 2002, a station owned by members of the nations wealthy oligarchy. The station continued for another 5 years, as stated in the article , and can operate on cable or via satellite.

People took to the street, in part, because some of their favorite programs were off the air and now only available on cable TV.

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What's the real concern?
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Posted by: rg on Jun 22, 2007 9:12 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
North Americans have never been concerned about the welfare of Latin Americans, or the growth of democracy in the region, so why all of the interest in Hugo Chávez and the people of Venezuela?
You parents, grandparents, and your great grandparents were similarly blind to the plight of Latin Americans.
The Monroe Doctrine, that carta blanca to ride roughshod over the hemisphere while turning a blind eye to what your European partners in crime did, gave you the "express right" to intervene in everything in the region........everything that wasn't in your interest. It was never about helping the people.
Your government went to war, overtly or covertly at the whim of corporate barons, to protect their interests, not to help the people.
As I write this, GW Stupid is pressing the flesh with the president of Vietnam, a country that is hardly the paragon of democracy, huh?
No, the real reason that North Americans are feeling so strongly about opposing Chávez is because of petroleum, and losing control of the larder.
Why aren't you feeling equally indignant at slave labor in China? Or sweat shops in Saipan; the same ones that were visited by Trent Lott and given the 'Murican seal of approval?
Why aren't you boycotting WalMart, who does nine billion Dollars of business with China yearly? The same company that is more comfortable with US taxpayers subsidizing their employee's health care than digging into their substantial profits that come from low-wage goods produced in China.
Why aren't you training your guns and bayonets on Saudi Arabia or Nigeria?
Why aren't you incensed at the dictators of some of the former Soviet Republics?
Why aren't you making the Tibet issue the topic for future trade with China?
Why aren't you appalled at Robert Mugabe?
Why are you allowing Darfur to creep under the radar?
Why; because after so many generations of believing a lie, you still think that Latin America is your back yard, and what's good for the USA must be good for the entire hemisphere; that's why so many of you still believe that the Cuban embargo is a good idea.
When Latin Americans start thinking for themselves, and they attempt to unravel 150 years of paternalism, they're the enemy of freedom.

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» RE: What's the real concern? Posted by: dangerouslysane
» RE: What's the real concern? Posted by: dangerouslysane
» Excellent Points rg Posted by: WitchyNy

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sad day for Human Rights Watch
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Posted by: uncleeddie on Jun 22, 2007 9:28 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Any media form that promoted a coup against a democratically elected leader acts against democracy and thus human rights. The greater the roles of everyday people in their own affairs the greater the chances for human rights there will be. It is surely a sad day when Human Rights Watch would try to defend an obviously anti-democratic entity like RCTV. José Miguel Vivanco should be relieved of his duties, pending a retraction, as his actions are an embarrassment to anyone who believes in rule of law, true democracy and thus human rights. Unless Vivanco can show his actions based on ignorance or misinformation then surely politics are his motives. Politics in an organization like Human Rights Watch is a death sentence for any type of credibility.

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"Freedom of the Press" in Venezuela
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Posted by: brunowe on Jun 22, 2007 9:54 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Let's start with the March 2005 law which has made it a crime to “insult” public authorities and institutions. Reporters Without Borders (RSF) reported that Ibéyise Pacheco, of the daily El Nacional and a harsh critic of the government who had accused a soldier of falsely obtaining a lawyer’s certificate. Pacheco was convicted and put under house arrest on 15 March but after apologising to the soldier was freed a week later. Although prosecutions aren't widespread, the chilling effect (and the sheer unjustifiability) of such a statute is obvious.

A so-called "social responsibility" law gives the government the power to suppress stories as well. RSF noted that "A Caracas court on 23 January [2007] accused 10 media outlets, including two state-owned TV stations, Canal Metropolitano and Venezolana de Televisión, of “obstructing justice” and banned them from broadcasting anything about the investigation into the November 2004 murder of Judge Danilo Anderson and from citing the name of a key witness. "

Pointing out that RCTV can still transmit over cable and satellite is meaningless as most of its audience was via broadcast.

Finally, the whole coup excuse is merely a pretext. As Human Rights Watch pointed out "Of the three commercial stations accessible in all parts of Venezuela, only RCTV has remained strongly critical of the government. The other two—Venevision and Televen—were themselves accused of supporting the attempted coup and subsequent anti–government protests. But both have since removed virtually all content critical of the government from their programming. "

In short, it wasn't biased news coverage that amounted to supporting a coup, it was continuing to be an anti-Chavez voice. Further, the Chavez government hasn't pointed to one judicial or regulatory finding that the station conspired in the coup nor has any member of the station management even been charged with the same, so the question of if the bias made RCTV part of the conspiracy is, in fact, wide open.

The lengths to which the government will go is suggested in it's treatment of Globovision. As the NYTimes reported, the government has issued a warning to that station on the grounds that "semioticians hired by the government had determined that video run by the channel of an assassination attempt in 1981 against Pope John Paul II could be interpreted as hostile to Mr. Chávez. "

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» Excuse me... Posted by: justaguy
» Your haven't cited any facts Posted by: brunowe
» Don't be so obtuse. Posted by: justaguy
» Did you even read the article? Posted by: justaguy

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Make What You Will
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Posted by: apophenia_monkey on Jun 22, 2007 9:58 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
but a massive tuna fleet moved out of venuzualia to maintain private control of itself.

the man is consolidating power and folks are either adapting or moving on.

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» RE: Make What You Will Posted by: Wacre
» RE: Make What You Will Posted by: ceti

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Committee to Protect Jouranlists..
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Posted by: brunowe on Jun 22, 2007 10:06 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...has also condemned the shutdown, finding the government's actions to be arbitrary.

It also points out that the state-owned media has simply become a megaphone for Chavez, packed with political loyalists.

It does a good breakdown of what this coup "support" consisted of.
"On April 11, 2002, following three days of opposition protests, the government preempted broadcasts by local television stations for a message from Chávez. During the address, private stations continued covering the protests using split screens. Chávez accused the stations of conspiring to overthrow his government and ordered them closed. At around midnight, the president was ousted by a group of high-ranking military officers"

"During his [Chavez] ouster, the four main private TV channels featured scant coverage of pro-Chávez demonstrations and instead showed cartoons and movies. Many analysts alleged that private media executives had colluded to impose a news blackout, heeding instructions given by Carmona. The executives claimed that they could not cover the story for fear that Chávez's backers, who had harassed several media outlets earlier in the year, would attack their staff or their offices. No media owner or executive has ever been charged with involvement in the coup."

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Fair and Balanced News in the USA....Not
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Posted by: picket on Jun 22, 2007 11:47 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There is an excellent article "Fox News & Venezuela" Scott Liebertz .... it is an analysis of how the US network has deliberately misinformed its viewers.

The New York Times is for corporate interests and is slanted against Chavez for that reason. "The Record of the Newspaper of Record."..Stephen Lendman ....the article describes how "yellow journalism" is used in the Chavez debate.

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Its not hard to make any government look bad
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Posted by: corazon on Jun 22, 2007 12:23 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Governments are run by extremely fallible people. Their prone to be currupt, busy bodies, "that only mean good". These people are out for themselves and willing to make tax payers foot the bill for their largesses. Rob peter to pay paul mentalities run the government. Republicans want corporate welfare. Democrats want plain old welfare. In a warfare/welfare Government system its those with connections to the party in charge that get to rob the taxpayers of the most money.

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GOOD MOVE, CHAVEZ; BAD ARGUMENT, GRANDIN
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Posted by: akib6ub9 on Jun 22, 2007 12:31 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I don't like the argument that "this type of a media outlet would never fly in the US": If a media outlet here supported a coup in the US, then it would be shut down. So why are we all upset that Chavez is doing that? True, the media is hypocritical when they condemn Chavez, when they know (or should know) the history of media suppression here, but ultimately that is a stupid argument. The US is not ideal in any way. We have a tightly controlled media and political system. Controlled by who? By a small elite percentage of the population. That, my friends, is not democracy. So comparing Chavez’s actions to US actions points out the hypocrisy of the US, but is not a good argument for shutting down RCTV.
So what is a good argument? At a basic level, the media is supposed to be a public service helping us to understand our political and social environment so that we can make informed democratic decisions. That is the public service of the media. RCTV and the media in the US both fail at this service by distorting our perceptions of reality (to say the least!). Often times, they knowingly lie, distort facts etc. But fundamentally, they are biased BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT DEMOCRATIC INSTITUTIONS THEMSELVES!
So what makes sense: shut down the top-down, hierarchical RCTV (and the corporate media here) and replace them with democratically controlled media institutions… that if they don’t provide us with their public service objective we can democratically change them!
Media that is top-down and hierarchical, whether it is capitalists or political elites at the top – will inherently be biased to reflect the interests of the top. This is true of the US and was also true of the old USSR. The solution: democratize the media!

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» I didn't Posted by: saml
» No. Posted by: justaguy

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Sam Livingston
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Posted by: saml on Jun 22, 2007 12:36 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Conservatives believe that human nature is inherently flawed -
- so they create balance of power that keeps everyone in check
- result: American Democracy, free speech, & increased standard of living for everyone, huge influx of immigrants seeking better life (like me).

Liberals believe that human nature is fundamentally good
- so they look for best human to lead them: Lenin, Mao, Chomsky, Chaves
- result Totalitarian Communism: millions are exterminated as enemies of revolution, millions starve to death, millions trying to escape.

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» RE: Sam Livingston Posted by: Wacre
» RE: Sam Livingston Posted by: saml
» RE: Sam Livingston Posted by: Wacre
» Earth to Saml Posted by: justaguy
» saml clueless Posted by: EasterBunny
» RE: saml clueless Posted by: saml
» Noam Chomsky Posted by: Illiteratilumen
» RE: Noam Chomsky Posted by: saml
» RE: Sam Livingston Posted by: akib6ub9
» RE: Sam Livingston Posted by: saml
» RE: Sam Livingston Posted by: akib6ub9
» part 1/2 Posted by: akib6ub9
» part 2/2 Posted by: akib6ub9
» RE: part 2/2 Posted by: saml
» RE: Full reply pt 1 Posted by: saml
» RE: Full reply pt 2 Posted by: saml

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Chavez: Victory for the People
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Posted by: sofla100 on Jun 22, 2007 2:55 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It always amazes me that people call Chavez a tyrant, when, in reality, Bush II is a far bigger tyrant if there ever was one. Who else has imprisoned hundreds, at Guantanamo, for who knows exactly what? Who else secretly spies on his people and nullifies laws with "signing statements," to get what he wants? As for Bush II obtaining power, just look at the 2000 election fixit job in Florida for a thrown election if there ever was one. With brother Jebber and hatchet lady Katherine Harris, along with thousands of people "kicked off the rolls," hanging chads, voter registration purges, etc., the election outcome here in Florida was determined even before the first vote was cast. And, then they criticize Chavez. As for the recent scandal over the TV station, could you imagine if a USA station openly called for a coup or assasination on America's president, just how long would that last!

But, lastly, the "Economist" magazine just had an article that USA exports to Venezuela are booming. Tens of thousands pf Venezuelans in the lower and middle classes are acquiring the means to obtain consumer goods previously "off limits" to them as their incomes and livelihoods have improved. Many businesses are also thriving catering to the rising prospects of the people. The "Bolivarian Revolution" is in progress and moving the people forward.

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» Agree with you 100%..... Posted by: mjabele

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Venezuela
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Posted by: SEDGFLD on Jun 22, 2007 4:14 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We can't expect a truthful analysis about a person this country's leaders want to politically ruin from a mainstream and governmentally compliant media whose members (they're not journalists) are either too self-serving or too afraid to tell the truth about events concerning this country. Our media is useless. Anytime you have to check the information you get from the majority of the media in your country with other sources, there's a problem.

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re:What's the real concern?
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Posted by: dangerouslysane on Jun 22, 2007 5:11 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I had to give this post a top rating. The questions you raised are right on the money.

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A challenge to Chavez supporters...
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Posted by: Illiteratilumen on Jun 22, 2007 9:41 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There has been plenty of good discussion on the topic of Venzuela and Hugo Chavez and I'm happy to get some additional viewpoints on the topic. I would like to pose a challenge to Chavez supporters to get a clearer picture of their position.

Hugo Chavez has dictatorial powers. That is a fact. One can debate the definition of "dictator" all day but the fact of the matter is he has deliberately sought out and been legally empowered to create new laws by decree. That makes him, for all practical purposes, THE government. I cannot, for the life of me, understand how any progressive can support a system of government that follows this kind of model.

My challenge to Chavez supporters:

Please explain how this style of government, specifically a single leader with this degree of authority, will ultimately benefit the Venezuelan people.

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» It is for 18 months only. Posted by: justaguy
» That depends..... Posted by: justaguy
» RE: That depends..... Posted by: Illiteratilumen
» Ummm, it already has. Posted by: justaguy
» Yes, let's keep watching... Posted by: mjabele
» Oh, so we're down to... Posted by: justaguy
» Oh and BTW.... Posted by: justaguy
» Did you even read my post? Posted by: Illiteratilumen
» Falsely analagous hypo... Posted by: Wesley69
» RE: Falsely analagous hypo... Posted by: Illiteratilumen
» My last response... Posted by: Wesley69
» Well said (nm) Posted by: justaguy
» Wrong re Executive Order Posted by: brunowe
» Disinformation. Posted by: justaguy
» RE: Disinformation. Posted by: mjabele
» Good points, however... Posted by: Wesley69
» Agree with you 100%..... Posted by: mjabele

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Zionist propaganda
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Posted by: Ambrose Pare on Jun 23, 2007 12:06 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A Zionist station which has attempted to destabilize the country such that they can install a currupt government with a favorable opinion of Israel.

Of course the Zionist media of North America is going to 'spin' the story. They want control of the media there to install Zionist leaders.

Thats a pretty hurting claim that revoking a stupid TV station is an assult on freedom. TV is a waste of time. Its a TV station, who cares.

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Check out my blog - stancel spencer
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Posted by: Stancel on Jun 26, 2007 1:42 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's about the claims that Hugo Chavez is a dictator. when he isn't.

Stancel Spencer

Link

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BUSH-CHENEY MACHINE STRIKES AGAIN!
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Posted by: chiquita1 on Jun 27, 2007 5:07 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The US has intervened and supported coups in Venezuala so many times it's a wonder there's any non Right Wingers left!
Two US Oil Gluttons picked up their toys and went home. Great! They were a ready conduit of CASH for Right Wing Coups over the years.

The US would love to create conflict in Venezuala to use it as an excuse to intervene and take over the nation's Oil & Gas just like in Iraq! Alas, Chavez is a bit smarter than Saddam was. And poo-poo over a Right Wing station being shut down by a Left Wing government is something South American Right Wing Money Grubbers better get used to!

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Bottom line...
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Posted by: saml on Jun 29, 2007 10:50 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
After reading this thread I can say - these are reasonable people (even if I don't agree with their point of view) who argue the issue based on its merits
- mjabele
- Illiteratilumen
- akib6ub9
- brunowe


On the other hand, these people argue not against opposing posts but against preconceived notions inside their head into which they pigeon-hole everyone disagreeing with them.
These are very ideologically slanted and it cripples their ability to argue rationally.
- justaguy
- Wesley69

A word of advice to “justaguy”– don’t right away ASSUME that people disagreeing with you are: evil, immoral, ignorant or brainwashed. You bias becomes apparent right away – and it makes you look like a high school kid.

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Mr.
[Report this comment]
Posted by: sport on Jul 5, 2007 5:34 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The author's naivte, or self-deception, or purposefully misleading commentary, is remarkable. When has a radio station in the U.S. been shut down for reasons of disagreeing with government personnel or policy? Trying to excuse Chavez for his dictatorial activities is the height of self-delusion. Such is the stuff of fanaticism.

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Andromeda
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Posted by: alevander5 on Jul 15, 2007 8:35 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
 
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