COMMENTS: 397
Debunking the North American Union Conspiracy Theory
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There are several ways to answer that question. First, the NAU is an increasingly popular conspiracy theory about a group of shadowy and mostly nameless international "elites" who are planning to "replace the United States" -- in the words of Jerome Corsi, a key figure in the SwiftBoat Veterans for Truth project and a leading NAU conspiracist -- with a transnational government. The theory holds that the borders between Mexico, Canada and the United States are in the process of being erased, covertly, by a group of "globalists" whose ultimate goal is to replace national governments in D.C., Ottawa and Mexico City with a European-style political union and a bloated EU-style bureaucracy.
The North American Union story is an offspring of the John Birch Society right, with its attendant xenophobia and paranoia. It comes complete with a shadowy international cabal intent on stabbing decent, hard-working Americans in the back -- Dolchstoss! Articles and websites condemning the NAU flourish in that political space where right- and left-wing populism become indistinguishable, along with a dozen other fundamentally reactionary theories of what's really going on with our contemporary political economy.
To fully understand the growing fascination with the NAU in various corners of the internet, one has to view it also as a cultural phenomenon; it's an entirely logical reaction to a process of corporate-driven global integration that feeds into Americans' very real and wholly valid economic anxieties. As David Moberg recently noted, Americans, "by a margin of 46 percent to 28 percent, [believe] that trade deals have harmed the United States," and four times as many people surveyed by Pew said U.S. trade deals had lowered wages than the number who believed the deals had raised them. According to Public Citizen, opponents of NAFTA-style trade deals picked up 37 seats over defenders of the status quo during last year's midterms.
But, despite that political landscape, one of the first things the new Democratic majority did when it got into power was cut a new "Grand Bargain" with the White House to push through more of the same kind of trade deals. As David Sirota pointed out, the Democratic leadership did it in secret, behind closed doors. And it did it over the objections of many of the freshman lawmakers that gave them their majority in the first place.
With that as a backdrop, it should come as no surprise that people tend to look for a wizard working behind the curtain. The idea that shadowy forces beyond our perception are really in charge of steering the most powerful country in the world is reinforced every time a bipartisan "trade" deal with little or no support gets jammed through Congress.
Ultimately, though, the answer to the question "What is the NAU?" is this: It is absolutely nothing. The NAU exists only as a proposal contained in one of a thousand academic and/or wonky papers published each year that advocate all manner of idealistic but ultimately unrealistic approaches to social, economic and political problems. Most of these get passed around in their own circles and eventually filed away and forgotten by junior staffers in congressional offices. Some of these papers, however, become touchstones for the conspiracy-minded and form the basis of all kinds of unfounded fears.
Such is the case with the monograph, "Building a North American Community," which was produced by a group of eggheads at the Council on Foreign Relations and their counterparts in Mexico and Canada. It calls for a North American economic union to stretch from Canada's northern border to Mexico's southernmost point. It would basically be a customs union -- similar to the old European Community before it became the European Union -- with expedited travel between countries, a single market with standardized external tariffs, etc.
One should never say "never," but barring a remarkable change in all three countries' political cultures (but most importantly that of the United States), the kind of formal North American political union described by the theory's proponents has zero chances of getting off the ground any time in the foreseeable future.
A kernel of truth
I am the last person in the world to argue that there's no reason to worry about the push for more and more regional economic and security integration. At its heart, as is always the case with these kind of dark plots, are some real dots. The analyses go off the rails when those dots are connected.
For those of us who have spent years trying to raise awareness of what's really going on in the movement to blanket the earth in "free trade" deals -- geared as they are more towards compelling countries to deregulate and protecting investors than by any genuine desire to free up trade -- it's somewhat satisfying to see new interest being paid to an issue that gets far too little attention. Like other conspiracies, the problem with the North American Union is that it is a distraction; it represents a massive energy drain.
The NAU monograph explicitly rejects an EU-style political union and the kind of supernational institutions that have grown up like mushrooms in Brussels. One of the principles that guided the committee that drafted the proposal was that the NAU would not resemble the EU:
North America is different from other regions of the world and must find its own cooperative route forward. A new North American community should rely more on the market and less on bureaucracy, more on pragmatic solutions to shared problems than on grand schemes of confederation or union, such as those in Europe. We must maintain respect for each other's national sovereignty.Despite that rather clear statement of principle -- and the fact that the paper lays out a series of recommendations that do not include the creation of some new continental supergovernment -- it does call for new "dispute" resolution mechanisms, the free flow of people between the United States and Canada (but not between Mexico and its northern neighbors as long as a large disparity between workers' incomes remains) and a unionwide regulatory framework.
Another "dot" that makes up the supposed NAU is the Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America (SPP), a chat-shop for American, Canadian and Mexican leaders to meet annually and discuss common security and economic issues.
And then there's NAFTA, and the so-called "NAFTA Highway." These are not one but several truck "transit corridors" that backers hope will eventually connect Mexican, American and Canadian markets more effectively and facilitate trade. With construction funds authorized by Congress in dribs and drabs since 1997, and very little work completed south of the Mississippi, it's unclear whether the roads will ever be more than a waste of a few hundred million in taxpayer funds.
Robert Pastor, an academic specializing in elections at American University and one of the authors of the NAU proposal, also suggested the adoption of a common currency, like the Euro. That suggestion, however, wasn't included in the NAU "recommendations."
The context in which these marginally related dots emerged is an important reason why they've taken on a sinister air in many people's minds. NAFTA was part of a larger push for legal and regulatory "harmonization" between the three countries of North America. Business groups and other "trade" lobbyists have in fact advocated greater consistency in North America's regulatory environment, and that always means decreasing, not increasing, labor, environmental, workplace and other standards. It is not the highest common denominator that backers want to see spread far and wide.
Make no mistake, I've shed blood opposing corporate trade deals like NAFTA and the Free Trade Area of the Americas, and there are very real and very significant problems with the push toward harmonization and the relentless assault on national sovereignty represented by the arm-twisting that goes into forcing a trade "consensus." Construction of key parts of the "NAFTA highway" have raised serious environmental concerns. We don't need to expand NAFTA or the other institutions of international commerce; we need a pause in the march towards global (or in this case, regional) economic integration, not more of the same.
And Canadian activists like Maude Barlow of the Council for Canadians have warned for some time that the SPP is part of a push, financed by Canadian and U.S. corporate think tanks, to essentially bring an end to Canada's social welfare state through regional integration. (More detail can be found in this PDF posted by the Council of Canadians.)
The right stuff
These, and a number of other concerns, are entirely valid. But the NAU story is a creature of the far right, and, as such, those who have "connected the dots" have done so according to their ideological preferences. The North American Union they've conjured up comes with the assumptions embraced by the coterie of wing-nuts who have promoted it.
Chief among them is World Net Daily, the "archconservative news site" responsible for such hard-hitting journalism as its recent exposé, "Soy is making kids 'gay'" (no, I'm not making that up). In addition to SwiftBoat vet Corsi, right-wing talk radio hosts like Sean Hannity and CNN's reliably nativist Lou Dobbs have featured stories on the imminent arrival of the NAU. Reactionary talker (and now CNN host) Glenn Beck lists it on his website as one of a dozen things that the un-named elites against whom he rails are using to stab good, hard-working Americans in the back.
While there are exceptions, most essays about the NAU are, like Corsi's now-famous treatise in the hard-right Human Events, intended to reinforce some of the most cherished right-wing narratives:
- Multilateral diplomacy is inherently bad; dangerous
- Americans' economic insecurity results from the machinations of "liberal elites" and corporate America has no responsibility whatsoever
- Foreigners are always competitors and can never be trusted -- working on common issues is inherently bad; dangerous
While the word "agenda" appears three times in Corsi's essay, you won't find the words "corporate," "corporation" or "lobbyist." Only murkily identified "elites" are to blame, not the actors -- the K Street influence peddlers and Chamber of Commerce types; the smooth pundits with those cushy think tank sinecures and the corporate execs who get stacked up in their Gulf Stream jets circling Washington every time a new trade deal comes up for a vote -- who are really pushing the corporate "trade" agenda. That's consistent with the central deception of right-wing populism: it's not Big Business and the politicians in their pockets that are responsible for gaming a system in which upward mobility no longer exists; the world is actually run by tweed-jacketed college professors and the "useful idiots" in the human rights and environmental communities.
And, recently, the NAU myth has become tangled up in the already acrimonious immigration debate in the United States, although not in any coherent way (they are completely unrelated, but the NAU mythology appeals to immigration hardliners for obvious reasons).
A bright, shiny distraction
What is the difference, then, between the kinds of analysis of corporate-led globalization offered by progressives and what I describe as a conspiracy theory? After all, both share the basic premise that deep-pocketed elites are threatening to run roughshod over the democratic institutions enjoyed in most nation-states, and both posit that the process is at least somewhat stealthy. Both hold that global economic integration along the lines of what we've seen so far have redistributed wealth upward, from workers to investors (although those on the right tend not to express that in so many words).
The differences are fairly straightforward. First, while there's no question that business elites in all three countries have long pushed for greater economic integration, central to the NAU theory is that there are forces working behind the scenes to build a political union. Those are two very different things; it's more than a semantic point.
Second, there is a NAFTA treaty and there are institutions like the WTO, but there is no North American Union and, because of a political culture that still cherishes political (if not economic) self-determination, especially in the United States, the chance of a North American Union that resembles the conspiracy theories becoming a reality anytime in the foreseeable future are about as likely as my being named Miss Universe.
Ultimately, that's also because nobody is calling for a political union like the EU. Whereas critics of corporate globalization can "follow the money" and name the specific registered lobbyists pushing a trade deal, the NAU's alleged supporters are always abstract (except for those in the wonky world of academic and think tank circles where these ideas are at least discussed seriously). That's because they don't exist. Progressive critics of corporate globalization take issue with the product of the diplomacy that takes place in venues like the WTO; for NAU theorists, representatives of the three North American governments sitting down and discussing regional issues is cause for alarm -- never mind that nothing substantive has come of those talks.
Finally, creating an NAU would require piles of legislation: billions of dollars in new budget allocations, the creation of new agencies and new institutions and the revision (or enactment) of literally hundreds of laws governing all sorts of activities in the political economy. The NAU conspiracy theorists would have you believe the impossible: that all of that will be done under cover of the metaphorical dead of night, while Americans are sleeping, and nobody will notice until it's too late. That is, nobody but those who are "wide awake" enough to embrace their conspiratorial worldview.
Consider how Jerome Corsi describes the White House's role in the NAU:
"President Bush is pursuing a globalist agenda" … a "hidden agenda" that explains "the Bush administration's true open borders policy." "Secretly, the Bush administration is pursuing a policy to expand NAFTA politically" …"What the Bush administration truly wants is the free, unimpeded movement of people across open borders with Mexico and Canada" … "President Bush intends to abrogate U.S. sovereignty to the North American Union, a new economic and political entity which the president is quietly forming." "Secretly," "quietly," "hidden agenda," "true …policy" -- all are markers of what the political scientist Richard Hofstadter called The Paranoid Style in American Politics.
The truth is that none of the three governments on the continent have endorsed the idea of an NAU and none of the NPP's discussions are binding on the countries in any way. If there were a real movement to create an NAU in the form envisioned by the reactionary oddballs at WorldNetDaily -- there isn't -- it would quickly be rejected not only by most Americans, but also by every member of Congress who likes the idea of serving another term.
In the meantime, in the real world, those corporate Gulf Streams are about to circle D.C. again, as Congress debates giving Bush "fast-track" trade authority and the Chamber of Commerce looks to seal trade deals with South Korea, Colombia, Peru and Panama. And, as always, only a very small group of activists will be watching those deals progress. They're not as sexy as a secretive cabal of covert globalists trying to destroy America from within, but they are far bigger issues because they are real.
Pity that the NAU crowd won't be paying attention.
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Comments are closed-
Posted by: Swatopluk on Jun 15, 2007 12:57 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/45/neoamiadler1c3nj.jpg
(left wing may be amputated ;-) ).
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» Check out this heavily researched and footnoted document.... then come back, Josh and....
Posted by: Prophit
» Do check it out ...
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» Check out the actual documents
Posted by: albrechtkrausse
» Thanks, you saved me from answering his non reading of the foot notes....
Posted by: Prophit
» You forgot somethings
Posted by: sausage
» Secret and elite organisations (fraternities, masons, etc) are bad.
Posted by: albrechtkrausse
» RE: Secret and elite organisations (fraternities, masons, etc) are bad.
Posted by: shanaza
» RE: Secret and elite organisations (fraternities, masons, etc) are bad.
Posted by: albrechtkrausse
» RE: Secret and elite organisations (fraternities, masons, etc) are bad.
Posted by: sausage
Comments are closed-
Posted by: brunowe on Jun 15, 2007 9:09 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Do I get the red star?
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» I knew it would be someone like you who would get it (NT)
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» another conspiracy theory????
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» my above post was meant for joshua_holland
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: another conspiracy theory????
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» Josh... debunk THIS!
Posted by: Fog
» RE: Josh... debunk THIS!
Posted by: yellow
» RE: Josh... debunk THIS! BOY ARE YOU HAVING TO DUMB DOWN THE DISCUSSION WITH MOCKERY. THAT
Posted by: poppop_schell
» RE: That Mexicamericanadian Flag
Posted by: gracefounddog
Comments are closed-
Posted by: chamela on Jun 15, 2007 12:59 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is the hard evidence that exists, regarding the plan for a NAU. Many links are included that lead to detailed documents --
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context= viewArticle&code=VIV20061220&articleId=4216
and also
http://www.humanevents.com/ article.php?id=16189
Author Jerome Corsi writes:
“Critics who argue that the NAU is a “conspiracy theory” are well advised to take a hard look at Robert Pastor. With U.S. policy toward Latin America, Dr. Pastor first approached the issue in writing (for the radical IPS, as we have noted), next as a university professor, and finally as a government official. Had John Kerry won the 2004 presidential election, Robert Pastor most likely would have emerged with a government position from which he could have pursued his NAU agenda. Given the re-election of George Bush, Dr. Pastor has surfaced within the CFR, an influential “think-tank” NGO whose history of impacting U.S. policy would suggest the CFR impact on SPP.gov could easily be more than academic.”
Testimony of Robert Pastor, to a Canadian government agency for foreign affairs (see http://www.american.edu/ia/cnas/ pdfs/PastorTestimonyCanada.pdf ) --
The tragedy of September 11th reminded us of our shared vulnerability. It also provided us with three distinct sets of choices on how we might respond. Each of the three countries of North America could choose to defend itself by retreating behind a fortress of tighter security and more barriers at the borders. This path would offer only a false sense of security, and it would reverse the remarkable progress made in the last decade in expanding trade and investment. More importantly, it would diminish the standard of living of all three countries. A second option is to act as we always have - handle one problem, one country at a time. This is the most likely course, but it is flawed, for reasons I will describe below. The third path is to lift NAFTA to a new level of cooperation. That is the direction I hope this Committee will take us.
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» Why is it so important to debunk the NAU as conspiracy?
Posted by: chamela
» RE: Why is it so important to debunk the NAU as conspiracy?
Posted by: pwood
» RE: Oringinal Org. Trilateral Commission
Posted by: SJ
» RE: THE REAL STORY ABOUT THE NORTH AMERICAN UNION (FACT-BASED)
Posted by: yellow
Comments are closed-
Posted by: aleef on Jun 15, 2007 1:26 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Here is an example: The Plan to Disappear Canada
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» RE: Perhaps the wrong conspiracy?
Posted by: Annarisse
» RE: Perhaps the wrong conspiracy?
Posted by: northerner
» Canada is definitely becoming more like the US by the day
Posted by: Bobsays
» RE: Canada is definitely becoming more like the US by the day
Posted by: babs
» RE: Canada is definitely becoming more like the US by the day
Posted by: Gisele
» Could Bobsays have his snowsuit on and be heading north, eh?
Posted by: SayBlade
» I think I may have nailed a few Canadian shiboleths
Posted by: Bobsays
» RE: I think I may have nailed a few Canadian shiboleths
Posted by: Gisele
Comments are closed-
Posted by: richholland on Jun 15, 2007 1:33 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
in Europe we found that the American way of life destroys the community feelings and the family life.
The cars, tv, dishwahsers etc. didnt give more time for happiness.
So all over the world the same pattern.
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» You have hit that nail so on the head, its not funny!!!!! Its the dehumanizing and decommunitizing
Posted by: Prophit
» You know, I think Americans are waking up to that fact....... I am most curious to see how...
Posted by: Prophit
» Sorry to burst your bubble Rich, but . . .
Posted by: MAD
» Yes and no ...
Posted by: Joshua Holland
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Rune on Jun 15, 2007 1:37 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hello! I think it is reasonably clear to everyone that the Democrats have turned on their base and are pursuing more or less the same policies that are opposed by the majority of Americans--such as the "war on anything that moves" and the occupation of Iraq--so it isn't exactly a seal of good housekeeping that the Democrats are in on whatever the Republicans were accused of. And more and more of those Americans who once championed the brand of globalization much of the world is now rebelling against, are questioning it themselves as they have a second look at the very roots of the theory that led them to embrace such policies in the first place.
This is not to say there is any credence to the rumors of an emerging North American Union, but the flimsy means of attempting to discredit the backers of the theory, rather than dealing with the substance of the claims themselves, certainly is not impressing or convincing me.
If we're not going to waste time and space with the latest nonsense about Paris Hilton, could we at least have something substantially more insightful and rigorously researched and presented instead? Debunking a conspiracy theory with bunk at a time when more and more credible conspiracies are being revealed by Congressional hearings and the piecing together of older published information from official sources does not really get us too far beyond the fluffy, fuzzy thinking (or not thinking, as the case may be) that the author and I find so unworthy of AlterNet.
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» RE: Not a very convincing argument at all. Why even publish this?
Posted by: HeroesAll
» Rebuttal - Part I
Posted by: Rune
» Rebuttal - Part II
Posted by: Rune
» Can you say PROPAGANDA...
Posted by: BlueBerry PickN
» RE: Not a very convincing argument at all. Why even publish this?
Posted by: skepticgod
Comments are closed-
Posted by: HeroesAll on Jun 15, 2007 2:45 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is my favourite line from the whole week. Anyone who thinks that academics are elite/powerful/sinister/whatever clearly knows very few college professors.
If those jackets were corduroy, now, that'd be a whole different thing...
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» Well ...
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» Oh, please, spare us and don't...... LOL
Posted by: Prophit
» University professors traded credibility for a bigger pay cheque
Posted by: Bobsays
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Perfectclue on Jun 15, 2007 3:41 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Of course like Hitler, this major class component, is hidden, and instead is replaced with some nebulous left, international, liberal, or socialist label, in the same way Hitler used "socialism", like Bush uses "Democracy" to hide behind for corporate fascism, on a global level. Once again folks, the failure to take class into account, and substitute all kinds of secondary explanations leads to this ideological rot. Yes, the elites can conspire war crimes, economic strategies, but always within the openly ideological class interests, servility to oligarchy, and global corporate fascism. I am not ruling out conspiracies, just placing them within the broader context of class rule, not some non-existent form of scapegoats, the jews, the immigrants, the ragheads, the commies, the gooks, but real global classes.
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» Black helicopters? Nah, it's the brownshirts that I worry about...!
Posted by: smendler
» RE: Black helicopters? Nah, it's the brownshirts that I worry about...!
Posted by: Perfectclue
» Bingo.
Posted by: Coleman
Comments are closed-
Posted by: ljsullivan1166@earthlink.net on Jun 15, 2007 4:08 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I saw the story about the North American Union and the Superhighway in September 2006 on the White House website. Quite a lengthy article. It wasn't there the last time I checked, however. Maybe someone -- Josh? -- told Dubya it's only a 'conspiracy theory'.
Then in the month of August 2006 there were hearings all across Texas, ostensibly to inform the ranchers whose land was going to be taken -- no doubt by eminent domain, now that the Supreme Court has made it so easy -- and to get their comments; that's what hearings are supposed to be for. Of course, any comments would be ignored; that's how this government operates these days.
As I understand it, the Project for a New American Century (PNAC), a 90-page document written by Paul Wolfowitz, has things to say about this. The document is available on the Internet; I haven't read it yet, so will just mention that in passing.
However, then there's the film featuring Connie Fogal, head of the Canadian Action Party, available on Google video (I hope it's still available), with what she knows about this.
There really is an abundance of material out there if anyone is interested in knowing the truth -- just as there is about the government cover-up of 9/11. But the only people who REALLY know are those who take off the blinders, pull their heads out of their ... navels, and take an open-minded look at the evidence. That doesn't seem to be a popular option in America these days. And no wonder. The truth is scary as hell.
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» Yeah and don't forget the CFR's huge report/recommendations for such a Union.....
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Yeah and don't forget the CFR's huge report/recommendations for such a Union.....
Posted by: jwc
» RE: Better check your facts, Josh ...
Posted by: dlf
» RE: and what is the Bush1,11, Cohorts?
Posted by: etisoppa
Comments are closed-
Posted by: medstudgeek on Jun 15, 2007 4:54 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Understandably the Canadians aren't so hot on the idea...
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» RE: I don't know about Mexico...
Posted by: Melvin
» Politically, the US is Canada with the South attached
Posted by: thumber77
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Posted by: Persephone8 on Jun 15, 2007 4:58 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why is the momentum behind NAU any less probable
than the formation of the EU ? The EU is real, isn't it?
This has to do with unified currencies, trade laws and the
"harmonization" of cultures and political systems that dismantle Constitutional protection.
America has had individual rights for the citizens of this
country, sovereignty without the intrusion of its government. NAU, GATT NAFTA, CAFTA and other communist-fascist agendas give
protections to governments and international corporations.
at the expense of individual citizens.Just look at the track record of ine international pharmaceutical industry and other global corps . If the environment,and resources can be ravaged at will with no accountability-because there are no laws to hold these entities accountable - then what? Welcome to globalization.
What do you think it means when an internatiional corporation, like Monsanto patents the genetic codes in seeds. They are basically saying ( I believe) - that they own
the genetic info in something that evolved in nature.
This means that seeds no longer belong to the life- death cycle of nature. They "belong" to a global corp that had think tanks and lawyers incorporate for their benefit something
that belongs to life and everyone.
How about privatizing the water or the air waves?
Isn't a large picture starting to emerge here?
The death and chaos being caused is staggering. Many of the trade laws protect them. Initiating an anti-trust law suit would no longer apply since The Constitution, Bill of Rights and our unalienable rights would no longer apply under international law. This is happening real time.
This has nothing to do with "conspiracy theories". Bush has been pushing for a prosperity initiative that would harmonize the laws of America, Canada and Mexico.
It would dismantle the Constitution, Bill of Rights and our
unalienable rights and Sovereignty by flat lining laws
via inernational trade agreements. Once laws are "harmonized"- Disputes would be (allegedly) decided
in international courts and international tribunals (Think U.N.
IMF, World Bank style "Justice" )
U. S citizens will no longer have a Constitution that protects us. Do you think Bush's war on civil liberties, Habeus Corpus The Consitution and Bill of Rights is random?
Tony Blair has been dismanteling the Constitution is England.( See European Constituion vs. British Sovereignty:Bruce Bartlett: www.capmag.com) There are MANY artcles and much info out there.
This is a well orchestrated plan to harmonize the laws of America with countries that have historically been socialist, communist or had totalitarian dictatorships.
If writers, politicians and bloggers refuse to see this- or want the successful outcome of fascist agendas that strip
individuals of their sovereignty - it does not make dissenters conspiracy theorists. It may , however, create a global police state and slave class.
Just because it is a "conspiracy theory" doesn't mean it isn't true.
If people who have the most to gain from the passage of
these agreements cannot debate these issues openly, without making others "crazy" or wrong- maybe they have something to hide.
Where there's smoke- there's fire. You don't have to believe me, according to this article- I'm just a conspiracy theorist.
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» RE: NAU. GATT NAFTA. CAFTA. WTO = Globalism
Posted by: freethink7
» EU started as simple 'harmonisation' and a basic steel&coal treaty between
Posted by: albrechtkrausse
» RE: U started as simple 'harmonisation' and a basic steel&coal treaty between
Posted by: Persephone8
» RE: U started as simple 'harmonisation' and a basic steel&coal treaty between
Posted by: albrechtkrausse
» Learn and spread the word about the FINANCIAL drive behind NAU. GATT NAFTA. CAFTA. WTO
Posted by: Fog
» RE: NAU. GATT NAFTA. CAFTA. WTO = Globalism
Posted by: ljsullivan1166@earthlink.net
» RE: NAU. GATT NAFTA. CAFTA. WTO = Globalism, but this fascsim is not Communism: idiot
Posted by: Perfectclue
» RE: NAU. GATT NAFTA. CAFTA. WTO = Globalism, but this fascsim is not Communism: idiot
Posted by: Persephone8
» RE: NAU. GATT NAFTA. CAFTA. WTO = Globalism, but this fascsim is not Communism: idiot
Posted by: HeroesAll
» RE: NAU. GATT NAFTA. CAFTA. WTO = Globalism
Posted by: Persephone8
Comments are closed-
Posted by: LeaderofMen on Jun 15, 2007 5:00 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Who in their right mind would believe that the most 'powerful nation on Earth' would allow a few elites to replace the the PNAC with a consortium that would include two 'inferior' nations. That would be absurd. The corporations that drive the military-industrial complex have no interest in giving up the extreme power and control they already have and have purchased from politicians inside our own country.
The PNAC has already done an excellent job of taking over our country. They don't need to have it changing hands again.
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Posted by: dlf on Jun 15, 2007 5:05 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I find it deceitful to write about Swiftboaters when the majority of one's pieces are awash in the same tactics. The arrogance it takes to believe that no one is wise enough to see through such deception is disturbing. I believe he continues to get space here because he is a lightening rob. But, so are some of the more venemous and racist posters here and they don't get a byline. Lastly I want to say that Mr. Holland loves to call people racist, which I find hilarious because, he has never engaged the Blacks on this line in a way that says he respects our opinion on matters of race. At least not the Blacks who are unwilling to bow to his superiority.
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Posted by: yellow on Jun 15, 2007 5:33 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I don't think that you understand Josh's use of the term racist. He means the encouragement of xenophobia by right-wing populists who use nativist rhetoric in order to confuse people about the nature of globalization. The point is not to slam foreigners in the same predicament as we are but to reach an understanding about the class nature of globalization and work out a common agenda to fight the debilitating effects on the working and middle classes everywhere.
So long as you hold right wing populist beliefs out of an unwillingness or inability to understand the real complexity of the world you can't blame people like Josh for unintentionally insulting you and your friends. Josh didn't mean to do so. Right-wing populism is a purile and dangerous belief system based on the inability to understand anything but palpable phenomena like people acting directly as a group of conspiritors. This is not how things work. The world around you and the social systems it consists of are complex. Furthermore, Josh never said all conspiricy theories come from the John Birch Society but that many of these theories resemble those of the JBS because of the latter's attachment to conspiricy.
Let me tell you something DIF and get it through your head. Conspiricy mongering is dangerous, ignorant, and bigoted. It is the refuge of the small minded and the intellectually backward. If this describes you than change!! It's shameful and no way to go through life!!
Also, you don't really know Josh at all!! He is one of the finer and more informed and clear headed writers and hasn't an ounce of racism in his bones. Don't hate him because his writing inadvertantly flies in the face of your attitudes. You are completely unfair and I also notice that you really don't give any specifics about what you mean. He hasn't said anything racist at all. I also don't know what you mean't by calling him a lightening rod (which you misspelled) but I hope it's not some kind of hateful insinuation. Finally, I don't think you should post something out of a knee jerk emotional reaction to someone personally without first thinking clearly about what you're saying.
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» "Media" for sale?
Posted by: chamela
» RE: The World According To Josh
Posted by: dlf
» Put your money where your mouth is, Josh!
Posted by: Fog
» The NAU According To Josh's Info
Posted by: Knowmad
» RE: The NAU According To Josh's Info
Posted by: dlf
» RE: The NAU According To Josh's Info
Posted by: karma_ran_over_dogma
» RE: The World According To Josh
Posted by: dlf
» RE: The World According To Josh
Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: The World According To Josh
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: The World According To Josh
Posted by: dlf
» " mean't " vs. " rob "
Posted by: illit
» "Subjective" is right... I mean LEFT
Posted by: karma_ran_over_dogma
» RE: "Subjective" is right... I mean LEFT
Posted by: dlf
» RE: "Subjective" is right... I mean LEFT
Posted by: yellow
» RE: "Subjective" is right... I mean LEFT
Posted by: dlf
» RE: "Subjective" is right... I mean LEFT
Posted by: yellow
» RE: "Subjective" is right... I mean LEFT
Posted by: VisionQuest
» RE: "Subjective" is right... I mean LEFT
Posted by: dlf
Comments are closed-
Posted by: chuckville on Jun 15, 2007 5:58 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Kinda scraping the bottom of the barrel now, eh Joshua?
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» RE: Um...
Posted by: smendler
Comments are closed-
Posted by: freethink7 on Jun 15, 2007 6:09 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Joshua: read this article…..Premeditated Merger North American Union Plan Headed to Congress in fall - Powerful Think tank Prepares report on benefits of integration between U.S., Mexico, Canada. Also read: Stop the North American Union website. Why in the world would our own government officials want to sacrifice our country’s sovereignty? One world government – that’s what all this globalization/globalism/global economy c#*p is about.
“google-schmoogle’ NAU and you will get approximately 80 million hits (some actually have some validity).
Information regarding the N.A.U. is even posted on the U.S.gov website in an audacious - unethical manner.
NAUPremeditated
StopNAU
google-schmoogle: NAU
p.s. Joshua: Also: 9/11 was an inside job!
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» RE: Dear Joshua Holland: Are You a Left Gatekeeper?
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» Very good comments from someone who admits he has done no research....... I like it!!!
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Very good comments from someone who admits he has done no research....... I like it!!!
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» The trumpet blew down the wall but left the gate standing?
Posted by: karma_ran_over_dogma
» RE: The trumpet blew down the wall but left the gate standing?
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: The trumpet blew down the wall but left the gate standing?
Posted by: karma_ran_over_dogma
» RE: The trumpet blew down the wall but left the gate standing?
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» ? - Not at all and
Posted by: karma_ran_over_dogma
» RE: ? - Not at all and
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» cool!
Posted by: karma_ran_over_dogma
» RE: cool!
Posted by: Joshua Holland
Comments are closed-
Posted by: albrechtkrausse on Jun 15, 2007 6:20 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Remember the EU started as a simple coal&steel treaty between, mainly, France&Germany. Now all rules are made by unelected bureacrats in Brussels, Luxembourg, and Strasbourg and one holds an 'EU' passport. Likewise the NAU has started with various, 'simple' trade agreements: NAFTA, CAFTA, SPP, etc. Notice things like SPP are managed/agreed upon without ANY voter input? I thought treaties needed to be approved. Now we have simple 'egg heads' signing treaties and making agreements for us? What kind of 'progressive', or anybody who believes in some kind of democratic, republican form of government, like secret treaties and groups of unelected 'egg heads' making decisions for us?
Note that one thing Holland get correct. The NAU aggrandisement is more 'market based' then the one used in Europe. This is simple tactics, the overall strategy is the same (central control over larger area, less civil rights, free movement of capital, etc) but 'American' people believe more in the 'market' and so this is being used. Whereas in Europe they used more 'progressive' ideals to implement their plan.
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» Oh, heaven forbid, using common sense...... a rearing of a rare phenomenae.... LOL
Posted by: Prophit
» Right - not a conspiracy, but a drift to guard against
Posted by: karma_ran_over_dogma
» "Conspiracy" is a loaded word used to deflect criticism of government, business elite machinations.
Posted by: albrechtkrausse
Comments are closed-
Posted by: riley on Jun 15, 2007 6:29 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
http://coanews.org/tiki-print_article.php?articleId=1922
A protest is supposed to be going on in Halifax from June 11-16. Right now, in other words. Maybe it's time to check out the Canadian news.
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Posted by: amphead on Jun 15, 2007 6:51 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Well, your nothing but a proposal is about to displace a million people here in Texas. I know the liberal elite could care less about Texas. We progressives here are simply written off as done for. The Trans -Texas Highway, which would be part of the new highway system from Canada to Mexico, would be getting underway soon if the Texas legislature hadn't put a sort of moratorium on it for 2 years. But Gov "Good Hair" Perry is looking for an end-around as I write. The asphalt plant planned to be built in my county to supply the highway is not nothing. Along with a coal powered energy plant for good measure. I don't give a fuck if it's a conspiracy or not, if I've got a 12 lane highway/railway through my back yard (if not directly over my property). No one in the liberal press seems to give a shit about that.
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» RE: It's more than just a proposal, dumbass!
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» Are you seriously saying that highway has nothing to do with the NAU???? Hahahaha!
Posted by: Prophit
» of course, how can anyone seriously say it does ...
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: of course, how can anyone seriously say it does ...
Posted by: Fog
» RE: of course, how can anyone seriously say it does ...
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» Not only that, but many of these have been signed already..... Duh!!!!
Posted by: Prophit
» I hate to even ask ...
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: It's more than just a proposal, dumbass!
Posted by: amphead
» RE: It's more than just a proposal, dumbass!
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: It's more than just a proposal, dumbass!
Posted by: amphead
» RE: It's more than just a proposal, dumbass!
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: It's more than just a proposal, dumbass!
Posted by: dlf
Comments are closed-
Posted by: albrechtkrausse on Jun 15, 2007 6:57 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: EinMD on Jun 15, 2007 7:23 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: chamela on Jun 15, 2007 7:24 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
All of these candidates are members of Rockefeller's Council on Foreign Relations (CFR), which advocates One World Government --
Fred Thompson
Rudy Giuliani
John McCain
Mitt Romney
Jim Gilmore
Newt Gingrich
Hillary Clinton
Barack Obama
John Edwards
Joe Biden
Chris Dodd
Bill Richardson
A great source for "insider" information about the plan for One World Government, as organized by David Rockefeller and his private thinktank, the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR) is Daniel Estulin's web site --
http://www.danielestulin.com/?op=noticias&idioma=en
You will also find documentation that demonstrates that David Rockefeller has purchased controlling stakes in NBC, CBS, and ABC in an effort to control the flow of information in the media.
"The Council on Foreign Relations (CFR) is the American Branch of a society which originated in England... (and) ...believes national boundaries should be obliterated and one-world rule established."
- Carroll Quigley, member of Council on Foreign Relations (CFR), mentor to Bill Clinton
"Once the ruling members of the CFR shadow government have decided that the U.S. Government should adopt a particular policy, the very substantial research facilities of (the) CFR are put to work to develop arguments, intellectual and emotional, to support the new policy, and to confound and discredit, intellectually and politically, any opposition."
- Admiral Chester Ward, former CFR member and Judge Advocate General of the U.S. Navy
"The main purpose of the Council on Foreign Relations is promoting the disarmament of U.S. sovereignty and national independence and submergence into an all powerful, one world government."
- Admiral Chester Ward, former CFR member and Judge Advocate General of the U.S. Navy
Also, if you haven't seen it -- the documentary "SPIN," which will blow your mind!!!
http://www.brasscheck.com/videos/spin/spin.html
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» RE: THE STORY ABOUT CFR & THE PLAN FOR ONE WORLD GOVERMENT
Posted by: yellow
» yo yellow
Posted by: chamela
» RE: yo yellow
Posted by: yellow
» The elites ARE shadowy...
Posted by: Coleman
» RE: yo yellow - part 2 - SOCIETY AND SPIRITUALITY
Posted by: chamela
» RE: yo yellow
Posted by: Roverton
» RE: THE STORY ABOUT CFR & THE PLAN FOR ONE WORLD GOVERMENT
Posted by: eyeswideoopen
» RE: THE STORY ABOUT CFR & THE PLAN FOR ONE WORLD GOVERMENT
Posted by: yellow
» RE: THE STORY ABOUT CFR & THE PLAN FOR ONE WORLD GOVERMENT
Posted by: eyeswideoopen
» And You Call Me Ignorant.
Posted by: yellow
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Illiteratilumen on Jun 15, 2007 7:32 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
All I know is this. There are very powerful people at work in the world toay and they aren't in much of a mood to invite me to their meetings. Many of the most powerful people are not part of any government. I am inclined to believe that they will not be passive while (s)elected officials decide their fate. Most will leverage their power when they are able to. Does that mean that they have inititated a global conspiracy to achieve a one-world government or a N. American government? I don't know that it does but I don't know that it doesn't, either. Like I said they don't invite me to their meetings.
Anyone who claims to know the mind of the world's most powerful people based off of some internet research is full of crap. There is simply too much information, some accurate, some not, to come to any conclusive proof about these sort of things.
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» People can make their own decisions from reading a variety of sources
Posted by: chamela
» Nothing wrong with that.
Posted by: Illiteratilumen
» claim everything, explain nothing, and deny everything
Posted by: chamela
» Paranoia=Vigilance
Posted by: Illiteratilumen
» RE: Plenty of (dis)information out there.
Posted by: dlf
» RE: Plenty of (dis)information out there.
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: Plenty of (dis)information out there.
Posted by: eyeswideoopen
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Lincoln fan on Jun 15, 2007 7:39 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
These are not shadowy forces; it is one force. The force of the corporate establishment that controls both of our parties' leaderships and hence, our government. There is nothing shadowy about campaign fund bribery and legislation written by industry lobbyists. There is nothing shadowy about the revolving door that puts former corporate executives in charge of departments that oversee their industries. It's not a dark secret; it's so blatant that people accept it as normal. The illusion of a republic ruled by the people is perpetuated by elections, that replace TweedleDee with TweedleDum.
Bob Reichenbach,
Director,The Lincoln Initiative
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Posted by: rjm on Jun 15, 2007 7:44 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
globalists represent the greatest threat to democracy the world has ever faced.
amerika the great, now complete with a legal acceptance of the private expropriation of public lands.
is this some sort of skit with you playing the role of neville chamberlain?
tks,
rjm
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Posted by: Idunno on Jun 15, 2007 7:53 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Holland, you are...
Posted by: Joshua Holland
Comments are closed-
Posted by: emmapeel1967 on Jun 15, 2007 8:05 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: emmapeel
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: emmapeel
Posted by: babs
» RE: Manifest Destiny is an old, yet sadly persistent idea
Posted by: eyeswideoopen
Comments are closed-
Posted by: zooeyhall on Jun 15, 2007 8:21 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Jun 15, 2007 8:35 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In the 90's, the idea was to whip up fear of 'World Government'. Here, the goal is not to protect corporate profits, but to attempt to change the 'mass psychology' of the voting public. Any study of Goebbels and Nazi mythology will reveal how this strategy works. It's based on creating fear, because people who are afraid are more easily manipulated.
Take the astroturf 9/11 truth movement - one effect of this was to create the belief in an all-powerful government agency that was much like a religious deity. The CIA can do anything, go anywhere, can make buildings fall down, and controls everything on the planet, so you had better be afraid! Now, stay in your homes and don't cause trouble!
This is also how religious dictators ruled in the Middle Ages - the priests had a hotline to God, and they could damn you to eternal hellfire if you crossed them. (The word 'propaganda' derives from a Middle Age-era Vatican group called the "Congregatio de Propaganda Fide".)
This is basic psychology - social behavior. When a tribe of chimpanzees, or water buffalo for that matter, is threatened by a predator, the instinctive response is to group together, which makes it harder for the predator to pick off isolated members of the herd.
This explains the statement by the famous Nazi, Josef Goebbels:
"Why of course the people don't want war. Why should some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece? Naturally the common people don't want war neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."
This is a remarkable statement, because most people who use such tactics are reluctant to speak so honestly about them.
In this case, what you have is Republican operatives attempting to use fear to motivate their base. In the case of the religious right (a very strange and insular community - they are constantly being directed to the 'approved' news sources, and are very brainwashed), the Repugnant operatives bring up themes like 'the homosexual war against Christianity' and 'the secular war against Christianity' in order to motivate the masses. In the case of this "North American Union" nonsense, it seems to be an attempt to get the western rural white male on board - i.e. the militia types that McVeigh took his inspiration from before the Oklahoma Federal Building bombing.
Public relations, propaganda, pyschological operations - it's the basic mindset of any totalitarian, authoritarian regime - which is what Bush, Cheney and the Repugnant party are trying to create.
Remember: War is a Racket!
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» RE: ecall the militia movement, and 'world government' fears of the 90's?
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» rock on.
Posted by: Coleman
Comments are closed-
Posted by: The_Curmudgeon on Jun 15, 2007 8:39 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As the Birchers died down, the Club of Rome and Knights of Malta arose as the new conveyors of "truth" about the nefarious plot to rob America of its "vital bodily fluids," to quote George C. Scott's character in Dr. Stranglove.
Now, it's something called the North American Union.
Look at reality, folks. We have had these "anti-One Worlder conspiracy theories being kicked around by various knuckleheads since the end of World War II. As for the latest incarnation, it's a joke for a whole bunch of reasons:
- As an American who has lived in Canada since 1991, I can tell you that the quickest way for a federal politician to be voted out of office is to suggest even a hint of integration with the US. The current PM spent a good deal of the last election campaign trying to assure voters that he was not George Bush's puppet and had no interest in handing Canada over to America.
- The right-wing base of the Republican party would never sit still for a presidential candidate who even thought of the idea.
- The base of the Democratic party, for very different reasons, would want nothing to do with such a policy.
So who exactly are these evil, secretive NAUer's? Mostly, it seems. folks with too much time on their hands and access to a computer and the internet.
If you want to worry about something that's real and happening right now that is destroying the US, focus on Iraq, focus on civil liberties, focus on income disparity, focus on health care. But, for Pete's sake, don't focus on lunatic theories from the lunatic fringer.
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» Read "Blackwater" by Jeremy Scahill. He mentions the "Knights of Malta" and their
Posted by: albrechtkrausse
» RE: Look At Reality, Folks ...
Posted by: dlf
» No, no, no - look at the shiny object! Waste your time and energy!
Posted by: thoughtcriminal
» Yeah, And There Are Spaceships ...
Posted by: The_Curmudgeon
» RE: Yeah, And There Are Spaceships ...
Posted by: dlf
Comments are closed-
Posted by: pwood on Jun 15, 2007 9:03 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In answer to two of Joshua's call for information, please read the following articles for some factual data...
The Global Elite: Who are they?
Toward a North American Union
This writer has been analyzing the New International Economic Order since 1978. Yes, there are misconceptions and exaggerations about the NAU... but to say it's just a myth is irresponsible, ignorant and dangerous.
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» They're just slaves of the UFO people - who are the real masters!
Posted by: thoughtcriminal
» RE: The Global Elite: Who are they?
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: The Global Elite: Who are they?
Posted by: pwood
» RE: The Global Elite: Who are they?
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: The Global Elite: Who are they?
Posted by: pwood
» RE: The Global Elite: Who are they?
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: The Global Elite: Who are they?
Posted by: pacto
Comments are closed-
Posted by: karma_ran_over_dogma on Jun 15, 2007 9:21 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Then the few remaining Mexican plutocrats will lease Mexico to Club Med.
Canada? Like Iraq - easy to invade, tougher than you'd think to occupy!
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» RE: Merging with Mexico will be easy because
Posted by: babs
» A bit of Cree, Ojibwa, Inuktitut and Slavey would be useful too ...
Posted by: SayBlade
Comments are closed-
Posted by: lito on Jun 15, 2007 9:27 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
First I doubt this seriously since the Bush administration has always been supportive of more border security. But then I have to ask, what would be so bad about the free movement of people? Shouldn't that be a basic goal for anyone who believes in the concept of liberty? There may be practical problems, but we should be trying to fix those problems not building more walls.
Of course that isn't what these deals are attempting to do - and we should be skeptical of any such plan proposed by Washington (or the governments in Canada or Mexico). These trade deals are always about enforcing borders more than tearing them down - at least when it comes to human beings. They want commerce to be able to move about more freely, but not workers.
The anti-globalization movement is opposed to powerful business interests creating free trade deals at the expense of workers and the environment. The right-wing nuts are opposed to these deals because of bigotry and xenophobia. They are more afraid of a few day laborers with little power than of Halliburton.
shoplifters unite
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» Here's what is so bad about it...
Posted by: chamela
» RE: Here's what is so bad about it...
Posted by: lito
» RE: Here's what is so bad about it...
Posted by: yellow
» RE: What's So Bad About More Open Borders?
Posted by: pacto
Comments are closed-
Posted by: HughScott on Jun 15, 2007 9:28 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This week, Senior Bush generated tremors by talking about the U.S. being an "assimilating" nation. The problem is, our culture is the one being assimilated, not the Hispanics.
Is it too much to imagine that in 50 years, there will be enough Latino voters in America to force a commercial union of Mexico and the United States, the way European countries did?
Not for me, it isn't. But then, I'm not trying to make a living writing AlterNet articles.
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» But tidal waves are not a conspiracy that earthquakes think up
Posted by: karma_ran_over_dogma
» What the hell does that mean, Karma? Are you on drugs again?
Posted by: HughScott
» just Cheez Wiz
Posted by: karma_ran_over_dogma
» WE ARE BEING ASSIMILATED! AHHHHH! HELP!
Posted by: Coleman
Comments are closed-
Posted by: gary_7vn on Jun 15, 2007 9:34 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Jun 15, 2007 9:38 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That explains a lot of things. For example, in media corporations, where your co-board members also sit on big oil corporations, you don't want to be accused of harming their interests by publishing stories that result in lawsuits or loss of profits for your friends - you go to the same parties, you swim in the same circles.
If you expand this notion out to the entire corporate system, what you have is simply self-censorship.
Go to www.theyrule.net to see how corporate boards are structured. Go to 'find a connection', for example.
Enter "TimeWarner Inc." and "Exxon Mobil". The connection chain is from ExxonMobil to board member William R. Howell to Pfizer to Franklin D. Raines to TimeWarner (CNN).
Now, doesn't this explain why CNN promoted the war in Iraq, which resulted in world-record profits for ExxonMobil? Doesn't this explain why CNN won't run negative stories on Big Pharma? Play around with the site a little - it's quite fascinating.
This isn't some 'conspiracy theory' - it's just the way the business world has ALWAYS worked, which is the fundamental reason why business and government need to be kept separate. Unfortunately, what's happened is the 'revolving door' phenomenon, exemplified by Donald Rumsfeld.
Rumsfeld went from Nixon's White House to Big Pharma to Reagan's White House to Big Pharma and back to Bush Jr's White House - as just one example. Along the way, he made billions in profits for Searles, for Merck, and for Gilead, who happens to own the patent for Tamiflu, the so-called 'avian flu drug' - which doesn't work... not that that kept the government from giving Merck and Gilead $7 billion, which resulted in Rumsfeld's Gilead holdings going from $5 million to $25 million in value.
Get it now?
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» correct, so lets all take a nuanced view
Posted by: Coleman
» Spot on, thoughtcriminal
Posted by: eddie torres
» RE: Sigh... it's not some big conspiracy, it just that...
Posted by: dover23
Comments are closed-
Posted by: LetsSaveDemocracy on Jun 15, 2007 9:41 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
its transparent josh. you're not very good at your job.
shame on alternet for keeping you on board.
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» RE: the good news
Posted by: Joshua Holland
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Ghoulman on Jun 15, 2007 10:40 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Being a conspiracy reader myself, this is a real scoop. And being Canadian, the Free Trade debate is fresh in our history and memory. A major change that was hotly debated all over the land.
It was terrific to mention Maude Barlow... "of the Council for Canadians have warned for some time that the SPP is part of a push, financed by Canadian and U.S. corporate think tanks, to essentially bring an end to Canada's social welfare state through regional integration."
... so true.
Here's an example; By 1995 the Paul Martin Liberal government had, with Free Trade already in full swing, axed our world famous health care systems funding in half. HALF. Currently it's funding level is the lowest on our history. You know all those stories of long lines at Canadian hospitals? That's why. All that money went into funding corporate ventures like biotech, oil in the tar sands, and so on. That money would be our tax dollars.
Culturally, Canadians don't go in for conspiracy theories. We knew damn well Washington would never deal fairly in business (WTO, my arse!). They never have. The only difference between how Washington deals with Canada over Mexico is that they don't shoot Canadians.
But these conspiracy theories, as J. points out, work uniquely well on Americans. Why? Because they are a culture living in fear of being destroyed. That's insane, of course, but the TV (and certain Presidents) tell Americans every day their families are in deadly danger. So any story about a conspiracy to take over the US, from this latest NAU to the UN being a world government (run by reptilian Jews from Mars no doubt), plays. It really plays. I mean, Americans were sold the idea that there was a world wide terrorist organization planning a "caliphate" from India to Morocco. Dick Cheney still tells this wopper and frack man, no one ever pointed out that was insane.
Somehow, I think the Swift Boat people, and where ever they get their $$$ (hmmm, Karl Rove?), and their ilk will feed this little theory to the poor and ignorant of America with all the gusto the KKK sells the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. Which, originally, was a screed against the Tsar of Russia. Someone just crossed out "Tsar" and put in "Jews". Funny? Well, it fooled Henry Ford... for a while. ;p
At least this conspiracy theory doesn't have any aliens in it. I'm sooo sick of aliens. :D
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» SO why doesn't Ghoulman get the red star?!
Posted by: DaBear
» Happy? (NT)
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: conomics and Americans, always fascinating
Posted by: dlf
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Darrell Kern on Jun 15, 2007 10:53 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Again, typical Bush fashion will dictate several conspiracy theory debunks- He addressed the nation and expressed concern that we not get caught up in conspiracy theories.
First if they were merely conspiracy theories- the president would not acknowledge such lameness. Secondly, he made a huge issue out of it, which clearly indicates there is truth in it which is why he is opposed to people talking about it.
Connie Fogal (Canadian Public Action Leader) openly discusses that the NAU is currently happening: Google her name.
Lou Dobbs addresses not only the NAU, but also points out that the highest levels of all three countries are deeply involved and are busting our own policies and constitutions to achieve the NAU and pushes for the Amero (American version of the Euro).
Google Lou Dobbs and the NAU.
In a nutshell the reporter for this Debunking article is not only an ill-informed boob- he also can't write for shit either. He cannot even sell it other professional debunker's. He really ought to be hawking Slurpies at his local 7-11 and leave the reporting to the grown-ups.
Because we have an election year coming up- all the shitty things the administration is involved in are going to buried in debunker land- or at least they are going to try. I find it fascinating they even debunk at all given they (our administration) doesn't give a rats ass what we think, want and/or have to say about it.
I did post the links but the edit command said I had words that are too long! Funny how that works, eh?
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» One small tip, Darrell
Posted by: HeroesAll
» RE: One small tip, Darrell
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: One small tip, Darrell- THANKS HERO!
Posted by: Darrell Kern
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Soco on Jun 15, 2007 11:05 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
People on the "Establishment" Left and Right now that real Americans on the left and right have common concerns about this very real issue. It's looks like the same people seed news outlets trying to debunk this because real people on each side have a commonality, but attempt to keep the lines of division going strong. "Don't look at the facts" you say, "it's a conspiracy theory." Well, shit, it's very well documented and Giuliani is working for a law firm in Texas representing a Mexican interest to get it done. One of many links can be drawn to support the fact. So, AlterNet is doing it's duty to keep it's readership dumbed down on the Left.
Wonder why neither side is tackling the real illegal immigration issue that real Americans on the left and right want solved (As in get the hell out)? Liberals preach the "human rights" crap and the right want cheap labor. Either way the trusted "Establishment" Dems and Repubs screw the common American. It's truly a one party system, each doing their part to destroy the country for a buck.
Sovereignty is being replaced by commerce and freetrade (That ain't free for us) for elites. They lied before, they'll lie again.
"The only people that don't know about it is the Americans"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hiPrsc9g98
http://www.canadafreepress.com/2007/kincaid051407.htm
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Posted by: willymack on Jun 15, 2007 11:06 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Wow!
Posted by: shanaza
» RE: Wow!
Posted by: eyeswideoopen
Comments are closed-
Posted by: BlueBerry PickN on Jun 15, 2007 11:08 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Going for Broke: are Bu$heviks banking on Canadian resources?
you wanna KNOW it... the US is going broke.
China & other foreign investors are buying up both government & PRIVATE debts.
Canada to raise U.S. bank policy with security czar
When *American UNIONS* figure out that they've let Corporatists fuel their paranoia by *bargaining AGAINST* fellow Peoples of *North America*, they'll realize that the corporate poison has been yearning to find a way to pillage the continent with an ample DIVIDED workforce.
"US may collapse as a superpower": analyst - The World Today
pay attention, don't listen to the propaganda.
When the US has closed its borders, controls union assembly, sold off its transportation & control of ports for resources, sources of power & trade, closed down communications... where do you wanna be??
if you find yourself saying, "I'll run for Canada!" then...
GET ACTIVE: join with the PEOPLES of North America & the GLOBE to protect our natural resources.
...& protect OUR collective Future.
meanwhile... why is the shiny new 'terror training' prison... @ BlackJack Village??
so ask yourself: if the Corporate Bushevik solution is the Green Zone in Iraq...
what might their SOLUTION be for the rest of us?
I bet it looks a lot like Dubai's The World...
Spread Love...
... but wear the Glove!
BlueBerry Pick'n
can be found @
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Posted by: Minutia on Jun 15, 2007 11:15 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
the FTA, NAFTA and now the SPP are all within the neoliberal policy direction: less power to workers and their communities; limited power of government to regulate and shape the market...
social activists, academics, workers, progressive legislators and independent media outlets from Canada, Mexico and the United States are challenging the big-business driven vision of North American integration contained in the Security and Prosperity Partnership.
In March 2005, Paul Martin, George W. Bush and Vicente Fox met in Waco, Texas to ratify the Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America (SPP). The SPP takes NAFTA's goal of continental economic integration much further by including security and foreign policy issues, and by speeding up the process of regulatory harmonization integral to the first Canada-U.S. Free Trade Agreement. Despite a lack of public awareness or input, lack of debate and votes within each legislature, all three North American right-wing governments are moving quickly and undemocratically toward a continental resource pact, North American security perimeter, and common agricultural and other polices related to our health and environment. Working groups comprised of government executive branches, bureaucrats and corporate leaders are putting this “partnership” into action behind closed doors, that is a fact.
anti-spp folks seek a relationship among Canada, Mexico and the US that can be fostered through fair and ethical trade and multilateralism.
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» RE: NAU is the Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America
Posted by: Joshua Holland
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Posted by: kjh71ca on Jun 15, 2007 11:38 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Powerful think tank prepares report on benefits of integration between U.S., Mexico, Canada
Global Research, May 24, 2007
WorldNetDaily.com
Email this article to a friend
Print this article
WASHINGTON – A powerful think tank chaired by former Sen. Sam Nunn and guided by trustees including Richard Armitage, Zbigniew Brzezinski, Harold Brown, William Cohen and Henry Kissinger, is in the final stages of preparing a report to the White House and U.S. Congress on the benefits of integrating the U.S., Mexico and Canada into one political, economic and security bloc.
The final report, published in English, Spanish and French, is scheduled for submission to all three governments by Sept. 30, according to the Center for Strategic & International Studies.
CSIS boasts of playing a large role in the passage of the North American Free Trade Agreement in 1994 – a treaty that set in motion a political movement many believe resembles the early stages of the European Community on its way to becoming the European Union.
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Posted by: sausage on Jun 15, 2007 11:39 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Who might that be?
The usual suspects: the Coors family, Richard Mellon Scaif, Helen Krieble and a galaxy of lesser known reactionary luminaries. And while these self-appointed champions of American sovereignty wave the Uncle Sam's bloody shirt to rouse reactionary dupes to action, their stock portfolios wax fat off profits from corporations that outsource, union-bust, globalize and hire undocumented labor, surreptitiously smuggled across our borders and in our unguarded harbors.
So as the heathens of neoKnow-Nothingism, nativism and good, old fashioned racism howl at the moons of "illegal immigration," NAFTA Super Highways, Mexican truckers and the North America Union, their benefactors are laughing all the way to the bank. Oh, and by the way, The Coors, Scaif, Krieble, et al., are not laughing with their reactionary minions but at them.
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» RE: So what the hell's wrong with a NAU?
Posted by: eyeswideoopen
» RE: So what the hell's wrong with a NAU?
Posted by: sausage
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Posted by: DaBear on Jun 15, 2007 11:43 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: gracefounddog on Jun 15, 2007 12:07 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: I'm glad to see not all readers falling for the author's.....
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» Just admit it Josh...
Posted by: dover23
» RE: I'm glad to see not all readers falling for the author's.....
Posted by: gracefounddog
» RE: I'm glad to see not all readers falling for the author's.....
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: I'm glad to see not all readers falling for the author's.....
Posted by: gracefounddog
» RE: I'm glad to see not all readers falling for the author's.....
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: I'm glad to see not all readers falling for the author's.....
Posted by: gracefounddog
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Gitaiba on Jun 15, 2007 1:25 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Brilliant!
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Brilliant!
Posted by: Gitaiba
» RE: Brilliant!
Posted by: Knowmad
Comments are closed-
Posted by: ERICO1 on Jun 15, 2007 3:29 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is fun too:
"The NAU conspiracy theorists would have you believe
the impossible: that all of that will be done under
cover of the metaphorical dead of night, while
Americans are sleeping, and nobody will notice until
it's too late. That is, nobody but those who are "wide
awake" enough to embrace their conspiratorial
worldview."
Yeah, you mean like the Patriot Act? How about that
Federal Reserve and Income tax? - those were pretty
damn huge - done in the dead of night, and nobody
noticed until it was too late.
What this writer aso fails to see is that it's not a
Bush admin or Republican idea.
..."it would quickly be rejected not only by most
Americans, but also by every member of Congress who
likes the idea of serving another term."
You mean like the Patriot Act? Iraq war? Funding for
the war recently? That one is hilarious.
Nor does this writer himself mention the blatent open
borders policy. The influx of illegal immigrants of
larger than history has ever seen. All while we are
supposedly fighting a "War On Terror" to keep
Terrorists out.. we have on average pof 3000 illegal
aliens entering the vountry on a daily basis, worse
than ever - and we have the latest legislation to
essentially pardon everyone, i don't mind the
immigrants, what i do mind is pretending that somethng
is being done about it.
Just like the wannabe 9/11 debunkers, he doesn't look
at the whole picture. He doesn't mention the meeting
that was made btwn the 3 heads of the 3 countries in
2005 that started this mess. How members of the press
that were there have come out and discussed what they
witnessed. He doesn't mention the AMERO - the AMERO
which is teh proposed currency that even Wikipedia has
an entry on.
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» RE: Joshua Holland calls himself a journalist?
Posted by: shanaza
» RE: Joshua Holland calls himself a journalist?
Posted by: dlf
» RE: Joshua Holland calls himself a journalist?
Posted by: eyeswideoopen
» RE: Joshua Holland calls himself a journalist?
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Joshua Holland calls himself a journalist?
Posted by: eyeswideoopen
Comments are closed-
Posted by: minmotstand on Jun 15, 2007 4:23 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Then a few years later, all of a sudden we have the Euro and with every passing day the EU centralizes more power and keeps trying to enforce it's federal constitution and laws upon sovereign European states.
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» RE: This is exactly what they said in Europe before the EU was created
Posted by: albrechtkrausse
» nonsense
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: nonsense
Posted by: albrechtkrausse
Comments are closed-
Posted by: asilsfable on Jun 15, 2007 5:11 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We already have states. Does it bother you that Idaho or Nevada or New York belong to the same country as you do (I'm a Californian)?
Ever been to Mississippi? Rural parts of Louisiana? Downtown Los Angeles? We have some mighty poor areas in our 'land of plenty.'
Ever been to Guanajuato? Oaxaca? Toronto? Cool places! I recommend a trip!
As an American, I read these comments (as well as posts on the immigration article JH wrote) and it saddens me. How lucky I am that I don't experience this kind of vitriol when I travel to other countries. I'm always embraced, people are very kind to me and my young son.
If only we could be that kind to the visitors of our country, and the people who like it so much they'd like to stay.
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» RE: Would it be so bad?
Posted by: dlf
» RE: Would it be so bad?
Posted by: asilsfable
» RE: Would it be so bad?
Posted by: dlf
» RE: Would it be so bad?
Posted by: eyeswideoopen
Comments are closed-
Posted by: bcgirl125 on Jun 15, 2007 5:55 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Alternet often presents interesting articles, which is why I and other readers who disagree with the moderators keep coming back. But I still recognize them as left-wing gatekeepers, who see it as their personal mission to derail any deep thinking about what is really going on behind the scenes in this country.
America is being fiscally mismanged, perhaps deliberately so. The US dollar isn't particularly healthy right now, with monetary inflation running about 12.5 percent, according to economists who have reconstructed the no longer officially released M3 report on currency printing. One more major financial hit, and the dollar will drop like a stone, affecting Canada's and Mexico's economies as well. This would be a good excuse to change to a new "stable" currency to bail out the entire north american economy.
So don't be too surprised if in a few years from now you're paying for your Walmart chinese imports in Ameros. It's all over but the shouting, folks.
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» RE: When Alternet "staff writers" attack a theory ...
Posted by: terminus
Comments are closed-
Posted by: freeda'all on Jun 15, 2007 7:40 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Really, I find it absolutely absurd that JH should use the 'editor's pick' button as a means to enhance those who kiss his ass & buy into his schlock. He's turned this forum into a faux-left mockup of the worst of Jerry Springer & Fox News.
Really Josh, I can't tell the difference between you and Bill O'Reilly or Rush Limbaugh. You're equally as able to twist the truth, put forth lies and push your transparent agenda as any of them.
Congratulations, you've entered the grown-up world of mainstream media.
It's 9:40 CST, let's see how long my post stays up tonight.
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Posted by: Loose Nuke on Jun 15, 2007 9:50 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Debunk Alternet funding, left side:
http://leftgatekeepers.com/chart.htm
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Posted by: eyeswideoopen on Jun 15, 2007 10:59 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
2. conspiracy theory on the NAU.
Both of which are dishonest arguments.
Calling xenophobia is merely shunning technique to prevent people from discussing things that they don't want discussed. Here's a clue for you... it's not working anymore - and it's never going to work again.
The other one - 'conspiracy theory' is wrong also. It's not a theory. The conspiracy is a fact and all the documents are in the public domain for anybody who is intellectually curious and/or honest enough to go looking.
You can start here -
History Lesson for Joshua - NAU Timeline
And you can see how the whole rotten, treasonous conspiracy is working at a process level - here
Treason on the Installment Plan
The issue of the North American Union is not a left vs right issue. It is an American issue. If you care about the Constitution. If you care about this country - then you'd better get this thing figured out because we don't have a lot of time left.
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» Joshua Needs A History Lesson
Posted by: freedom
» RE: Joshua Needs A History Lesson
Posted by: eyeswideoopen
» Joshua Needs A History Lesson
Posted by: freedom
» RE: Joshua Needs A History Lesson
Posted by: eyeswideoopen
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Lloyd Miller on Jun 16, 2007 3:43 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Here are the two most important errors in this piece:
1) First and foremost the author does NOT mention that treaties are the "law of the land" according to the US Constitution. Thus, international agreements between Canada, Mexico, and become law. Thus, a North American Union can come about piece-meal, one treaty at a time, harmonizing regulations, continental defense, etc etc. The pulic need never be consulted. It is not important whether or not somebody finally slaps the NAU label on the treaty mess or not. We need to revive the BRICKER AMENDMENT proposed in the 1950s to correct this defect of the US Constitution.
2) The author is also a leftist who substitutes faceless "corporations" for what he desparages as the "shadowy cabals" of the Right. In fact, the Right pierces the "Corporate Veil" to the CONTROLLERS of the Major Corporations who, as epitomized by David Rockefeller, control finance, and participate in the "policy wonk" intellectual committees at the Council on Foreign Relations, the Bilderbergers, Trilateral Commission and other CORPORATE FINANCED "think tanks" that the author thinks are so irrelevant. The idea that Committees set-up by the Corporate financed Council on Foreign Relations are irrelevant "idealists" is silly beyond words!
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» RE: ight Pierces the Veil of "Faceless" Corporations to Controllers & Their Intellectual Wonky Minio
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: ight Pierces the Veil of "Faceless" Corporations to Controllers & Their Intellectual Wonky Minio
Posted by: Lloyd Miller
» And please take a civics class ...
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: And please take a civics class ...
Posted by: eyeswideoopen
» Let's try a visual ...
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Let's try a visual ...
Posted by: eyeswideoopen
» RE: And please take a civics class ...
Posted by: Lloyd Miller
» RE: And please take a civics class ...
Posted by: Lloyd Miller
» RE: And please take a civics class ...
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: And please take a civics class ...
Posted by: Lloyd Miller
» RE: And please take a civics class ...
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: And please take a civics class ...
Posted by: Lloyd Miller
» RE: And please take a civics class ...
Posted by: Lloyd Miller
» RE: And please take a civics class ...
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: ight Pierces the Veil of "Faceless" Corporations to Controllers & Their Intellectual Wonky Minions
Posted by: eyeswideoopen
Comments are closed-
Posted by: SayBlade on Jun 16, 2007 7:14 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
With a balance (2006, the CIA Fact Book) of $20,560,000,000 why would we want to become part of a union that with the US being top debtor with $-862,300,000,000 and will eventually be owned by China?
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Posted by: liviaturner on Jun 16, 2007 7:24 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am very sorry to see AlterNet be taken over by the Neocon propaganda machine.
This will be my last visit ever to this site because of this fake news story. WAKE UP AMERICA (AND ALTERNET)!
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» RE: ALTERNET HAS BEEN INFILTRATED
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: ALTERNET HAS BEEN INFILTRATED
Posted by: eyeswideoopen
» RE: ALTERNET HAS BEEN INFILTRATED
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: ALTERNET HAS BEEN INFILTRATED
Posted by: eyeswideoopen
» RE: ALTERNET HAS BEEN INFILTRATED
Posted by: yellow
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Joshua Holland on Jun 16, 2007 8:39 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
1) The actual proposal issued by the CFR -- the heart of the whole fairytale -- doesn’t in fact call for the formation of an EU-style political union.
2) The SPP, supposedly part of the plot, is a coordinating body with zero authority. Contrary to the fairytale, the SPP’s recommendations are not binding on any of the three governments in any way, shape or form.
3) While there are clearly constituents for greater regional economic and regulatory integration -- and closer security coordination -- nobody wants an EU-style federation. There is no constituency for a political union in the U.S., in Mexico or in Canada.
But forget about all of that for a moment. Let’s pretend for a moment that there were really a call for an EU-style federation and there were really constituents for that kind of political union.
In order to enact a North American (political) Union, the Constitution would obviously need to be amended (it delegates powers, you know). That process goes like this: either two-thirds of state legislatures call a Constitutional Convention -- that’s only happened twice and not since 1863 -- or an amendment is passed by a two-thirds majority in both chambers of Congress before being sent to state legislatures for ratification. It only becomes an amendment, though, if three-fourths of all state legislatures approve it.
Everyone voting for that amendment -- in Congress and in those state legislatures -- would be voting to decrease his or her power, or eliminate their jobs altogether. Of course, there would be the proverbial villagers with pitchforks rioting outside while they cast their votes.
So, if you think all that happening is a likely sequence of events in a political culture that can’t pass a decent immigration bill, I suggest you spend a lot of time on the internet writing in all caps. Tell people to WAKE UP!, call them SHEEPLE and SUCKERS and suggest that anyone who doesn’t worry about the NAU as much as you do is stupid or naïve or a shill for … whomever.
Many of you are obviously already following this stratagem.
But if you think all of that coming to pass is about as likely as Jenna Bush signing up for frontline combat duty in Falluja, then you, like me, must conclude that the NAU is one of the sillier conspiracy theories out there.
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» RE: ANYONE GOT AN ARGUMENT?
Posted by: ceti
» RE: ANYONE GOT AN ARGUMENT?
Posted by: shanaza
» Please only respond on this comment if you have an argument ...
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: ANYONE GOT AN ARGUMENT?
Posted by: eyeswideoopen
» OK, so my central points stand (NM)
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: OK, so my central points stand (NM)
Posted by: eyeswideoopen
» RE: OK, so my central points stand (NM)
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» News from British papers today undercut Mr.Holland's argument about EU (again).
Posted by: albrechtkrausse
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Joshua Holland on Jun 16, 2007 8:52 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Again: I don't deny there is a very real push for economic/regulatory integration in North America (as elsewhere), but the NAU as it is described in the conspiracy is not an economic union but a political one.
Yes, there is a NAFTA, and there are certainly business groups -- real entities that you and I can name -- pushing for greater regulatory harmonization. Yes, they want to do all sorts of things that would facilitate trade. Yes, people should be concerned with them.
But the conspiracy theory is about a political union with no internal borders and some form of supernational government to which the existing governments of North America would have to cede significant political power.
I went out of my way to make that distinction in the piece and it's kind of frustrating that so many commenters can't see the difference. People must be so accustomed to being told that corporate globalization is great that they have a hard time with the message that it isn't great but, hey, this other thing is also just a myth.
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» RE: Adding ...
Posted by: jstang
» RE: Adding ...
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Adding ...
Posted by: shanaza
» RE: Adding ...
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Adding ...
Posted by: eyeswideoopen
» RE: Adding ...
Posted by: shanaza
» RE: Adding ...
Posted by: jstang
» RE: Adding ...
Posted by: shanaza
» Not true ...
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» Not true ... maybe in that context
Posted by: freedom
» RE: Not true ... maybe in that context
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» josh: SO LOU DOBBS AND HIS GUESTS ARE ALL CONSPIRACY NUTS? N/M
Posted by: poppop_schell
» Pretty much, yeah (NT)
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» JOSH: THANKS FOR AT LEAST BEING HONEST AT LOU DOBBS. N/M
Posted by: poppop_schell
» RE: Adding ...
Posted by: dlf
» You shouldn't even be here ...
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: You shouldn't even be here ...
Posted by: dlf
» RE: Adding ...
Posted by: Lloyd Miller
» RE: Adding ...
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Adding ...
Posted by: Lloyd Miller
» RE: Adding ...
Posted by: eyeswideoopen
» RE: Adding ...
Posted by: eyeswideoopen
» So?
Posted by: VisionQuest
» RE: So?
Posted by: dlf
Comments are closed-
Posted by: poppop_schell on Jun 16, 2007 10:27 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: josh: SEND YOUR ARTICLE TO THE ELITISTS AND YOU WILL NEVER HAVE
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: josh: SEND YOUR ARTICLE TO THE ELITISTS AND YOU WILL NEVER HAVE
Posted by: Loose Nuke
» RE: josh: SEND YOUR ARTICLE TO THE ELITISTS AND YOU WILL NEVER HAVE
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: josh: SEND YOUR ARTICLE TO THE ELITISTS AND YOU WILL NEVER HAVE
Posted by: Loose Nuke
» RE: josh: SEND YOUR ARTICLE TO THE ELITISTS AND YOU WILL NEVER HAVE
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: josh: SEND YOUR ARTICLE TO THE ELITISTS AND YOU WILL NEVER HAVE
Posted by: Loose Nuke
» RE: josh: SEND YOUR ARTICLE TO THE ELITISTS AND YOU WILL NEVER HAVE
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» JOSH: SO IT WAS YOUR IDEA AND THE EDITIR OKed IT? WOULD YOUR EDITOR OK AN
Posted by: poppop_schell
» RE: JOSH: SO IT WAS YOUR IDEA AND THE EDITIR OKed IT? WOULD YOUR EDITOR OK AN
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» JOSH AND THE ALTERNET EDITORS ARE CLAIRVOANT.. THEY KNOW THAT AN ARTICLE IS FALSE BEFORE...
Posted by: poppop_schell
» Loose Nuke: GOOD FOR YOU. YOU'RE A FIGHTING PROGRESSIVE AND SMART ENOUGH TO KNOW THAT
Posted by: poppop_schell
» JOSH: NO YOU DO NOT PROMOTE THE NWO AND NAU BUT YOU DO ATTACK THE IDEA AND THUS MANY SIMPLY
Posted by: poppop_schell
» RE: josh: SEND YOUR ARTICLE TO THE ELITISTS AND YOU WILL NEVER HAVE
Posted by: eyeswideoopen
» JOSH: THE ELITES PROBABLY AT THIS TIME DON'T EVEN NOTICE ALTERNET BUT DON'T GIVE UP
Posted by: poppop_schell
» RE: JOSH: THE ELITES PROBABLY AT THIS TIME DON'T EVEN NOTICE ALTERNET BUT DON'T GIVE UP
Posted by: yellow
» YELLOW: THE GLOBALIST ELITES FINANCE ANYONE WHO SUPPORTS THEIR AGENDA WHETHER PROGRESSIVE OR
Posted by: poppop_schell
» Oh come on!
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Oh come on!
Posted by: yellow
» RE: Oh come on!
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» YELLOW: I SUPPOSE THAT FOLKS LIKE DENNIS KUCINICH, RON PAUL AND LOU DOBBS ARE
Posted by: poppop_schell
» JOSH: THERE IS THE ASSUMED SMEAR: JEWISH BANKERS THUS ANTI-SEMITISM. YOU SHOULD
Posted by: poppop_schell
» RE: JOSH: THERE IS THE ASSUMED SMEAR: JEWISH BANKERS THUS ANTI-SEMITISM. YOU SHOULD
Posted by: yellow
» YELLOW: TALK TO JOSH ABOUT THIS. HE IS THE FIRST PERSON TO BRING IT UP. ITS IS THE...
Posted by: poppop_schell
Comments are closed-
Posted by: yellow on Jun 16, 2007 12:50 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The NAU is a total myth. The NAU has nothing to do with the NAFTA hwy as I've explained in an above post. The NAFTA Hwy is just more globalization and offshoring of good jobs, specifically the ILWU union jobs on the west coast. This is the way the capitalist system at this phase of global development usually works. It isn't connected to any so called NAU. And it's no conspiricy. Also, it is not a way of sneaking illegal workers into the country because the proposed Highway from Texas to Canada will have military checkpoints at all disembarking points being an international highway. This will render the smuggling of illegal immigrants quite impossible. It's really much more about globalization. Sorry conspiricy mongerers. Nice try.
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» YELLOW: SO LOU DOBBS AND HIS REKNOWNED GUESTS ARE ALL CRAKER NUTS?
Posted by: poppop_schell
» RE: YELLOW: SO LOU DOBBS AND HIS REKNOWNED GUESTS ARE ALL CRAKER NUTS?
Posted by: yellow
» RE: YELLOW: COYOTES DON'T CARE? THEY WERE ALREADY PAID THEIR BLOOD MONEY AND
Posted by: poppop_schell
» RE: CRACKERS OF THE WORLD UNITE!! YOU HAVE NOTHING TO LOSE BUT YOUR BRAINS!!
Posted by: eyeswideoopen
» RE: CRACKERS OF THE WORLD UNITE!! YOU HAVE NOTHING TO LOSE BUT YOUR BRAINS!!
Posted by: eyeswideoopen
» eyeswideoopen: IS THIS THE SAME PERSON WHO POSTED EARLEIR? PERHAPS I MISUNDERSTOOD YOU?
Posted by: poppop_schell
» RE: eyeswideoopen: IS THIS THE SAME PERSON WHO POSTED EARLEIR? PERHAPS I MISUNDERSTOOD YOU?
Posted by: eyeswideoopen
» RE: eyeswideoopen: good for you!!! I GUESS I BETTER NOT CROSS YOU? (GRIN) N/M
Posted by: poppop_schell
» YELLOW: YOU'RE BEING DISENGENIOUS. A ROSE BY ANY OTHER NAME STILL "SMELLS." PERHAPS
Posted by: poppop_schell
» eyeswideoopen: Perhaps you're right but at least we have brains to lose. And A Rose by any
Posted by: poppop_schell
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Roverton on Jun 16, 2007 1:33 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
CHAPTER 11 PLANET.
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Comments are closed-
Posted by: yellow on Jun 16, 2007 2:03 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» YELLOW: SO RON PAUL, A GREAT POPULIST CONSTITUTIONALIST, IS ACTAULLY IS A SHILL
Posted by: poppop_schell
» RE: YELLOW: SO RON PAUL, A GREAT POPULIST CONSTITUTIONALIST, IS ACTAULLY IS A SHILL
Posted by: yellow
» RE: YELLOW: SO RON PAUL, A GREAT POPULIST CONSTITUTIONALIST, IS ACTAULLY IS A SHILL
Posted by: eyeswideoopen
» RE: YELLOW: SO RON PAUL, A GREAT POPULIST CONSTITUTIONALIST, IS ACTAULLY IS A SHILL
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: YELLOW: SO RON PAUL, A GREAT POPULIST CONSTITUTIONALIST, IS ACTAULLY IS A SHILL
Posted by: eyeswideoopen
» eyeswideoopen: The Fair Tax is a tax plan based on financial transactions and retail sales
Posted by: poppop_schell
» RE: eyeswideoopen: The Fair Tax is a tax plan based on financial transactions and retail sales
Posted by: eyeswideoopen
» RE: eyeswideoopen: 50% SALES TAX????? WHERE DID YOU PULL THAT FIGURE FROM?
Posted by: poppop_schell
» RE: eyeswideoopen: 50% SALES TAX????? WHERE DID YOU PULL THAT FIGURE FROM?
Posted by: eyeswideoopen
» RE: eyeswideoopen: ARE WE TALKING ABOUT THE NEAL BOORTZ FAIR TAX PROPOSAL OR SOMETHING ELSE? N/M
Posted by: poppop_schell
» Eyeswideoopen And Poppop_schell
Posted by: Fog
» Poppop_schell - on Fair Tax
Posted by: Fog
» FOG: THE FAIR TAX IS A TAX ON CONSUMPTION EXPENDITURES NOT ON INCOME??? ARE
Posted by: poppop_schell
» JOSHUA: THE FAIR TAX IS A MODIFIED FLAT TAX WITH NO TAXES FOR FAMILIES WITH LESS THAN
Posted by: poppop_schell
» RE: JOSHUA: THE FAIR TAX IS A MODIFIED FLAT TAX WITH NO TAXES FOR FAMILIES WITH LESS THAN
Posted by: eyeswideoopen
» eyeswideoopen: MOST PROGRESSIVES ARE INDEPENDENTS ALTHOUGH THEY OFTEN REGISTER WITH A PARTY N/M
Posted by: poppop_schell
» eyeswideoopen: THE FAIR TAX IS ONE BIG LIE? CAN YOU BE MORE SPECIFIC AS I HAVE STUDIES IT AS
Posted by: poppop_schell
» RE: eyeswideoopen: THE FAIR TAX IS ONE BIG LIE? CAN YOU BE MORE SPECIFIC AS I HAVE STUDIES IT AS
Posted by: eyeswideoopen
» RE: eyeswideoopen: THANK YOU FOR THE LINKS. I WILL STUDY THEM. I SUGGEST YOU SUBMIT AN
Posted by: poppop_schell
» RE: eyeswideoopen: THANK YOU FOR THE LINKS. I WILL STUDY THEM. I SUGGEST YOU SUBMIT AN
Posted by: eyeswideoopen
» RE: eyeswideoopen: I'M DEEPLY IMPR4ESSED BY YOUR KNOWLEDGE. ASK LOU DOBBS TO HAVE YOU
Posted by: poppop_schell
» RE: eyeswideoopen: I'M DEEPLY IMPR4ESSED BY YOUR KNOWLEDGE. ASK LOU DOBBS TO HAVE YOU
Posted by: eyeswideoopen
» RE: eyeswideoopen: understood about being a better writer. Also contact the Ron Paul campaign and
Posted by: poppop_schell
Comments are closed-
Posted by: shanaza on Jun 16, 2007 4:37 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: J. Holland is no shill - any more than You are ...
Posted by: Lloyd Miller
» Now you are just being shilly... :)
Posted by: Carl Street
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Persephone8 on Jun 17, 2007 6:21 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Dictionary
Home > Library > Words > Dictionary
Sta·lin·ism (stä'lə-nĭz'əm)
n.
The bureaucratic, authoritarian exercise of state power and mechanistic application of Marxist-Leninist principles associated with Stalin.
Stalinist Sta'lin·ist adj. & n.
Stalinize Sta'lin·ize' v.
Britannica Concise Encyclopedia
Home > Library > Reference > Britannica Concise Encyclopedia
Stalinism
Method of rule, or policies, of Joseph Stalin in the Soviet Union and his imitators elsewhere in the Soviet bloc. On taking power, Stalin brooked no dissent from party policies, of which he assumed the role of sole infallible interpreter. He postponed the struggle for world proletarian revolution, focusing instead on "socialism in one country." He decreed the wholesale collectivization of Russian agriculture and a program of rapid industrialization, which, though broadly effective, resulted in the deaths of many millions. Purges in the 1930s (see Purge Trials) resulted in the deaths of millions more, as opponents were branded traitors and executed or sent to the Gulag. After Stalin's death Nikita Khrushchev repudiated Stalinism (1956) as an aberration. See also Leninism, Trotskyism.
For more information on Stalinism, visit Britannica.com.
History Dictionary
The form of Marxism associated with Soviet leader Joseph Stalin. Stalinism emphasizes the repression of all dissent, often by brutal means; a rigid adherence to government management of economic life; and the domination of all communist movements worldwide by the Soviet Union. In holding to these beliefs, Stalin opposed Leon Trotsky. (See Trotskyism.)
WordNet
Home > Library > Reference > WordNet
Note: click on a word meaning below to see its connections and related words.
The noun Stalinism has one meaning:
Meaning #1: a form of government in which the ruler is an absolute dictator (not restricted by a constitution or laws or opposition etc.)
Synonyms: dictatorship, absolutism, authoritarianism, Caesarism, despotism, monocracy, one-man rule, shogunate, totalitarianism, tyranny
Wikipedia
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Stalinism
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Joseph Stalin
Stalinism is the political and economic system named after Joseph Stalin, who implemented it in the Soviet Union. It includes an extensive use of propaganda to establish a personality cult around an absolute dictator, as well as extensive use of the secret police to maintain social submission and silence political dissent.
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Posted by: albrechtkrausse on Jun 17, 2007 1:13 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» The comments are back. It must have been a problem with my computer when I posted this, or,
Posted by: albrechtkrausse
Comments are closed-
Posted by: rockpicker on Jun 17, 2007 1:16 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Here's a new assignment I think you'll really enjoy. Give us a book review of Mike Ruppert's "Crossing The Rubicon."
And stop deleting my posts, unless I break your rules.
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Posted by: CLBlack on Jun 18, 2007 9:14 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
On June 10, in response to rising listener interest and to contextualize a discussion on AZ's fiery "anti-immigration" tensions--I covered the topic with Dr. David Morris, VP of Institute for Local Self Reliance and ex-energy department advisor for presidents Ford, Clinton and G.W. Bush.
The NAU is real (yes, through the SPP--which operates under the auspices of the US Dep't of Commerce) as well as the NAFTA superhighway and the Trans Texas Corridor (TCC). In addition, with a 2006 signing order, G.W. Bush granted the presidential office immunity from Congressional oversight on SPP.
The rights to build the first leg of the Highway, the Trans Texas Corridor (TCC)--with TX partner Zachry Construction Corp., set toll prices and collect profits for the next 50 YEARS-- are owned by Spanish contractor CINTRA (Cintra Concessiones de Infrastructures de Transporte S.A.).
Cintra is already partners with Australian firm Macquerie, on a toll road in Indiana. CINTRA is also represented by the firm of Bracewell and Giuliani (yes, Rudy).
For more info. listen to the archived show here.
For continuing info stay tuned...
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» BLACK: THANK YOU FOR YOUR INFORMATION. I SUGGEST YOU CONTACT LOU DOBBS ABOUT YOUR GROUP. N/M
Posted by: poppop_schell
» RE: BLACK: THANK YOU FOR YOUR INFORMATION. I SUGGEST YOU CONTACT LOU DOBBS ABOUT YOUR GROUP. N/M
Posted by: CLBlack
» RE: BLACK: THANK YOU FOR YOUR INFORMATION. I SUGGEST YOU CONTACT LOU DOBBS ABOUT YOUR GROUP. N/M
Posted by: eyeswideoopen
» EYESWIDEOPEN: BINGO!!!!! FREE TRADE IS A MAJOR PART OF THE COMMUNIST MANIFESTO AND YES IS TO
Posted by: poppop_schell
» RE: YESWIDEOPEN: BINGO!!!!! FREE TRADE IS A MAJOR PART OF THE COMMUNIST MANIFESTO AND YES IS TO
Posted by: eyeswideoopen
» RE: EYESWIDEOPEN: PLEASE SEND IT TO ME WHEN YOUR FINISHED AT poppop_schell@hotmail.com N/M
Posted by: poppop_schell
» RE: BLACK: the issue is soverignty under the constitution, not whether there is a conspiracy or not
Posted by: poppop_schell
» RE: NAFTA Highway, Trans-Texas Corridor are DEFINITELY Real. Action Point interview with Dr.David Morris
Posted by: dlf
» The NAFTA Highway is definitely real. The NAU is not. They are not the same thing.
Posted by: yellow
Comments are closed-
Posted by: fanny666 on Jun 18, 2007 12:23 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Who?
Posted by: eyeswideoopen
» Conspiracy Theories Drag Down The Effectiveness of the American Left
Posted by: fanny666
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Carl Street on Jun 18, 2007 5:57 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When a dog bites a man, that is NOT news; but when a man bites a dog, that IS news -- GET IT???!
So, who are these idiots who feel they can ignore thousands of years of government conspiracies and believe that somehow today only honest saints occupy political office?
If you are one or know how to contact any of these idiots please have them get in touch with me ASAP -- I still have a few shares of Brooklyn Bridge stock available at a Great Price!
Sheesh!
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Posted by: chamela on Jun 19, 2007 9:10 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
http://www.globalresearch.ca
http://www.onlinejournal.com
http://www.larouchepub.com
http://www.danielestulin.com/?op=noticias&idioma=en
http://www.carolynbaker.org
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Posted by: Roverton on Jun 25, 2007 11:52 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Right?
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Posted by: Swatopluk on Jun 15, 2007 12:57 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/45/neoamiadler1c3nj.jpg
(left wing may be amputated ;-) ).
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» Check out this heavily researched and footnoted document.... then come back, Josh and....
Posted by: Prophit
» Do check it out ...
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» Check out the actual documents
Posted by: albrechtkrausse
» Thanks, you saved me from answering his non reading of the foot notes....
Posted by: Prophit
» You forgot somethings
Posted by: sausage
» Secret and elite organisations (fraternities, masons, etc) are bad.
Posted by: albrechtkrausse
» RE: Secret and elite organisations (fraternities, masons, etc) are bad.
Posted by: shanaza
» RE: Secret and elite organisations (fraternities, masons, etc) are bad.
Posted by: albrechtkrausse
» RE: Secret and elite organisations (fraternities, masons, etc) are bad.
Posted by: sausage
Comments are closed-
Posted by: brunowe on Jun 15, 2007 9:09 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Do I get the red star?
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» I knew it would be someone like you who would get it (NT)
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» another conspiracy theory????
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» my above post was meant for joshua_holland
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: another conspiracy theory????
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» Josh... debunk THIS!
Posted by: Fog
» RE: Josh... debunk THIS!
Posted by: yellow
» RE: Josh... debunk THIS! BOY ARE YOU HAVING TO DUMB DOWN THE DISCUSSION WITH MOCKERY. THAT
Posted by: poppop_schell
» RE: That Mexicamericanadian Flag
Posted by: gracefounddog
Comments are closed-
Posted by: chamela on Jun 15, 2007 12:59 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is the hard evidence that exists, regarding the plan for a NAU. Many links are included that lead to detailed documents --
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context= viewArticle&code=VIV20061220&articleId=4216
and also
http://www.humanevents.com/ article.php?id=16189
Author Jerome Corsi writes:
“Critics who argue that the NAU is a “conspiracy theory” are well advised to take a hard look at Robert Pastor. With U.S. policy toward Latin America, Dr. Pastor first approached the issue in writing (for the radical IPS, as we have noted), next as a university professor, and finally as a government official. Had John Kerry won the 2004 presidential election, Robert Pastor most likely would have emerged with a government position from which he could have pursued his NAU agenda. Given the re-election of George Bush, Dr. Pastor has surfaced within the CFR, an influential “think-tank” NGO whose history of impacting U.S. policy would suggest the CFR impact on SPP.gov could easily be more than academic.”
Testimony of Robert Pastor, to a Canadian government agency for foreign affairs (see http://www.american.edu/ia/cnas/ pdfs/PastorTestimonyCanada.pdf ) --
The tragedy of September 11th reminded us of our shared vulnerability. It also provided us with three distinct sets of choices on how we might respond. Each of the three countries of North America could choose to defend itself by retreating behind a fortress of tighter security and more barriers at the borders. This path would offer only a false sense of security, and it would reverse the remarkable progress made in the last decade in expanding trade and investment. More importantly, it would diminish the standard of living of all three countries. A second option is to act as we always have - handle one problem, one country at a time. This is the most likely course, but it is flawed, for reasons I will describe below. The third path is to lift NAFTA to a new level of cooperation. That is the direction I hope this Committee will take us.
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» Why is it so important to debunk the NAU as conspiracy?
Posted by: chamela
» RE: Why is it so important to debunk the NAU as conspiracy?
Posted by: pwood
» RE: Oringinal Org. Trilateral Commission
Posted by: SJ
» RE: THE REAL STORY ABOUT THE NORTH AMERICAN UNION (FACT-BASED)
Posted by: yellow
Comments are closed-
Posted by: aleef on Jun 15, 2007 1:26 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Here is an example: The Plan to Disappear Canada
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» RE: Perhaps the wrong conspiracy?
Posted by: Annarisse
» RE: Perhaps the wrong conspiracy?
Posted by: northerner
» Canada is definitely becoming more like the US by the day
Posted by: Bobsays
» RE: Canada is definitely becoming more like the US by the day
Posted by: babs
» RE: Canada is definitely becoming more like the US by the day
Posted by: Gisele
» Could Bobsays have his snowsuit on and be heading north, eh?
Posted by: SayBlade
» I think I may have nailed a few Canadian shiboleths
Posted by: Bobsays
» RE: I think I may have nailed a few Canadian shiboleths
Posted by: Gisele
Comments are closed-
Posted by: richholland on Jun 15, 2007 1:33 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
in Europe we found that the American way of life destroys the community feelings and the family life.
The cars, tv, dishwahsers etc. didnt give more time for happiness.
So all over the world the same pattern.
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» You have hit that nail so on the head, its not funny!!!!! Its the dehumanizing and decommunitizing
Posted by: Prophit
» You know, I think Americans are waking up to that fact....... I am most curious to see how...
Posted by: Prophit
» Sorry to burst your bubble Rich, but . . .
Posted by: MAD
» Yes and no ...
Posted by: Joshua Holland
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Rune on Jun 15, 2007 1:37 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hello! I think it is reasonably clear to everyone that the Democrats have turned on their base and are pursuing more or less the same policies that are opposed by the majority of Americans--such as the "war on anything that moves" and the occupation of Iraq--so it isn't exactly a seal of good housekeeping that the Democrats are in on whatever the Republicans were accused of. And more and more of those Americans who once championed the brand of globalization much of the world is now rebelling against, are questioning it themselves as they have a second look at the very roots of the theory that led them to embrace such policies in the first place.
This is not to say there is any credence to the rumors of an emerging North American Union, but the flimsy means of attempting to discredit the backers of the theory, rather than dealing with the substance of the claims themselves, certainly is not impressing or convincing me.
If we're not going to waste time and space with the latest nonsense about Paris Hilton, could we at least have something substantially more insightful and rigorously researched and presented instead? Debunking a conspiracy theory with bunk at a time when more and more credible conspiracies are being revealed by Congressional hearings and the piecing together of older published information from official sources does not really get us too far beyond the fluffy, fuzzy thinking (or not thinking, as the case may be) that the author and I find so unworthy of AlterNet.
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» RE: Not a very convincing argument at all. Why even publish this?
Posted by: HeroesAll
» Rebuttal - Part I
Posted by: Rune
» Rebuttal - Part II
Posted by: Rune
» Can you say PROPAGANDA...
Posted by: BlueBerry PickN
» RE: Not a very convincing argument at all. Why even publish this?
Posted by: skepticgod
Comments are closed-
Posted by: HeroesAll on Jun 15, 2007 2:45 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is my favourite line from the whole week. Anyone who thinks that academics are elite/powerful/sinister/whatever clearly knows very few college professors.
If those jackets were corduroy, now, that'd be a whole different thing...
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» Well ...
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» Oh, please, spare us and don't...... LOL
Posted by: Prophit
» University professors traded credibility for a bigger pay cheque
Posted by: Bobsays
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Perfectclue on Jun 15, 2007 3:41 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Of course like Hitler, this major class component, is hidden, and instead is replaced with some nebulous left, international, liberal, or socialist label, in the same way Hitler used "socialism", like Bush uses "Democracy" to hide behind for corporate fascism, on a global level. Once again folks, the failure to take class into account, and substitute all kinds of secondary explanations leads to this ideological rot. Yes, the elites can conspire war crimes, economic strategies, but always within the openly ideological class interests, servility to oligarchy, and global corporate fascism. I am not ruling out conspiracies, just placing them within the broader context of class rule, not some non-existent form of scapegoats, the jews, the immigrants, the ragheads, the commies, the gooks, but real global classes.
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» Black helicopters? Nah, it's the brownshirts that I worry about...!
Posted by: smendler
» RE: Black helicopters? Nah, it's the brownshirts that I worry about...!
Posted by: Perfectclue
» Bingo.
Posted by: Coleman
Comments are closed-
Posted by: ljsullivan1166@earthlink.net on Jun 15, 2007 4:08 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I saw the story about the North American Union and the Superhighway in September 2006 on the White House website. Quite a lengthy article. It wasn't there the last time I checked, however. Maybe someone -- Josh? -- told Dubya it's only a 'conspiracy theory'.
Then in the month of August 2006 there were hearings all across Texas, ostensibly to inform the ranchers whose land was going to be taken -- no doubt by eminent domain, now that the Supreme Court has made it so easy -- and to get their comments; that's what hearings are supposed to be for. Of course, any comments would be ignored; that's how this government operates these days.
As I understand it, the Project for a New American Century (PNAC), a 90-page document written by Paul Wolfowitz, has things to say about this. The document is available on the Internet; I haven't read it yet, so will just mention that in passing.
However, then there's the film featuring Connie Fogal, head of the Canadian Action Party, available on Google video (I hope it's still available), with what she knows about this.
There really is an abundance of material out there if anyone is interested in knowing the truth -- just as there is about the government cover-up of 9/11. But the only people who REALLY know are those who take off the blinders, pull their heads out of their ... navels, and take an open-minded look at the evidence. That doesn't seem to be a popular option in America these days. And no wonder. The truth is scary as hell.
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» Yeah and don't forget the CFR's huge report/recommendations for such a Union.....
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Yeah and don't forget the CFR's huge report/recommendations for such a Union.....
Posted by: jwc
» RE: Better check your facts, Josh ...
Posted by: dlf
» RE: and what is the Bush1,11, Cohorts?
Posted by: etisoppa
Comments are closed-
Posted by: medstudgeek on Jun 15, 2007 4:54 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Understandably the Canadians aren't so hot on the idea...
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» RE: I don't know about Mexico...
Posted by: Melvin
» Politically, the US is Canada with the South attached
Posted by: thumber77
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Posted by: Persephone8 on Jun 15, 2007 4:58 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why is the momentum behind NAU any less probable
than the formation of the EU ? The EU is real, isn't it?
This has to do with unified currencies, trade laws and the
"harmonization" of cultures and political systems that dismantle Constitutional protection.
America has had individual rights for the citizens of this
country, sovereignty without the intrusion of its government. NAU, GATT NAFTA, CAFTA and other communist-fascist agendas give
protections to governments and international corporations.
at the expense of individual citizens.Just look at the track record of ine international pharmaceutical industry and other global corps . If the environment,and resources can be ravaged at will with no accountability-because there are no laws to hold these entities accountable - then what? Welcome to globalization.
What do you think it means when an internatiional corporation, like Monsanto patents the genetic codes in seeds. They are basically saying ( I believe) - that they own
the genetic info in something that evolved in nature.
This means that seeds no longer belong to the life- death cycle of nature. They "belong" to a global corp that had think tanks and lawyers incorporate for their benefit something
that belongs to life and everyone.
How about privatizing the water or the air waves?
Isn't a large picture starting to emerge here?
The death and chaos being caused is staggering. Many of the trade laws protect them. Initiating an anti-trust law suit would no longer apply since The Constitution, Bill of Rights and our unalienable rights would no longer apply under international law. This is happening real time.
This has nothing to do with "conspiracy theories". Bush has been pushing for a prosperity initiative that would harmonize the laws of America, Canada and Mexico.
It would dismantle the Constitution, Bill of Rights and our
unalienable rights and Sovereignty by flat lining laws
via inernational trade agreements. Once laws are "harmonized"- Disputes would be (allegedly) decided
in international courts and international tribunals (Think U.N.
IMF, World Bank style "Justice" )
U. S citizens will no longer have a Constitution that protects us. Do you think Bush's war on civil liberties, Habeus Corpus The Consitution and Bill of Rights is random?
Tony Blair has been dismanteling the Constitution is England.( See European Constituion vs. British Sovereignty:Bruce Bartlett: www.capmag.com) There are MANY artcles and much info out there.
This is a well orchestrated plan to harmonize the laws of America with countries that have historically been socialist, communist or had totalitarian dictatorships.
If writers, politicians and bloggers refuse to see this- or want the successful outcome of fascist agendas that strip
individuals of their sovereignty - it does not make dissenters conspiracy theorists. It may , however, create a global police state and slave class.
Just because it is a "conspiracy theory" doesn't mean it isn't true.
If people who have the most to gain from the passage of
these agreements cannot debate these issues openly, without making others "crazy" or wrong- maybe they have something to hide.
Where there's smoke- there's fire. You don't have to believe me, according to this article- I'm just a conspiracy theorist.
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» RE: NAU. GATT NAFTA. CAFTA. WTO = Globalism
Posted by: freethink7
» EU started as simple 'harmonisation' and a basic steel&coal treaty between
Posted by: albrechtkrausse
» RE: U started as simple 'harmonisation' and a basic steel&coal treaty between
Posted by: Persephone8
» RE: U started as simple 'harmonisation' and a basic steel&coal treaty between
Posted by: albrechtkrausse
» Learn and spread the word about the FINANCIAL drive behind NAU. GATT NAFTA. CAFTA. WTO
Posted by: Fog
» RE: NAU. GATT NAFTA. CAFTA. WTO = Globalism
Posted by: ljsullivan1166@earthlink.net
» RE: NAU. GATT NAFTA. CAFTA. WTO = Globalism, but this fascsim is not Communism: idiot
Posted by: Perfectclue
» RE: NAU. GATT NAFTA. CAFTA. WTO = Globalism, but this fascsim is not Communism: idiot
Posted by: Persephone8
» RE: NAU. GATT NAFTA. CAFTA. WTO = Globalism, but this fascsim is not Communism: idiot
Posted by: HeroesAll
» RE: NAU. GATT NAFTA. CAFTA. WTO = Globalism
Posted by: Persephone8
Comments are closed-
Posted by: LeaderofMen on Jun 15, 2007 5:00 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Who in their right mind would believe that the most 'powerful nation on Earth' would allow a few elites to replace the the PNAC with a consortium that would include two 'inferior' nations. That would be absurd. The corporations that drive the military-industrial complex have no interest in giving up the extreme power and control they already have and have purchased from politicians inside our own country.
The PNAC has already done an excellent job of taking over our country. They don't need to have it changing hands again.
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Posted by: dlf on Jun 15, 2007 5:05 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I find it deceitful to write about Swiftboaters when the majority of one's pieces are awash in the same tactics. The arrogance it takes to believe that no one is wise enough to see through such deception is disturbing. I believe he continues to get space here because he is a lightening rob. But, so are some of the more venemous and racist posters here and they don't get a byline. Lastly I want to say that Mr. Holland loves to call people racist, which I find hilarious because, he has never engaged the Blacks on this line in a way that says he respects our opinion on matters of race. At least not the Blacks who are unwilling to bow to his superiority.
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Posted by: yellow on Jun 15, 2007 5:33 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I don't think that you understand Josh's use of the term racist. He means the encouragement of xenophobia by right-wing populists who use nativist rhetoric in order to confuse people about the nature of globalization. The point is not to slam foreigners in the same predicament as we are but to reach an understanding about the class nature of globalization and work out a common agenda to fight the debilitating effects on the working and middle classes everywhere.
So long as you hold right wing populist beliefs out of an unwillingness or inability to understand the real complexity of the world you can't blame people like Josh for unintentionally insulting you and your friends. Josh didn't mean to do so. Right-wing populism is a purile and dangerous belief system based on the inability to understand anything but palpable phenomena like people acting directly as a group of conspiritors. This is not how things work. The world around you and the social systems it consists of are complex. Furthermore, Josh never said all conspiricy theories come from the John Birch Society but that many of these theories resemble those of the JBS because of the latter's attachment to conspiricy.
Let me tell you something DIF and get it through your head. Conspiricy mongering is dangerous, ignorant, and bigoted. It is the refuge of the small minded and the intellectually backward. If this describes you than change!! It's shameful and no way to go through life!!
Also, you don't really know Josh at all!! He is one of the finer and more informed and clear headed writers and hasn't an ounce of racism in his bones. Don't hate him because his writing inadvertantly flies in the face of your attitudes. You are completely unfair and I also notice that you really don't give any specifics about what you mean. He hasn't said anything racist at all. I also don't know what you mean't by calling him a lightening rod (which you misspelled) but I hope it's not some kind of hateful insinuation. Finally, I don't think you should post something out of a knee jerk emotional reaction to someone personally without first thinking clearly about what you're saying.
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» "Media" for sale?
Posted by: chamela
» RE: The World According To Josh
Posted by: dlf
» Put your money where your mouth is, Josh!
Posted by: Fog
» The NAU According To Josh's Info
Posted by: Knowmad
» RE: The NAU According To Josh's Info
Posted by: dlf
» RE: The NAU According To Josh's Info
Posted by: karma_ran_over_dogma
» RE: The World According To Josh
Posted by: dlf
» RE: The World According To Josh
Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: The World According To Josh
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: The World According To Josh
Posted by: dlf
» " mean't " vs. " rob "
Posted by: illit
» "Subjective" is right... I mean LEFT
Posted by: karma_ran_over_dogma
» RE: "Subjective" is right... I mean LEFT
Posted by: dlf
» RE: "Subjective" is right... I mean LEFT
Posted by: yellow
» RE: "Subjective" is right... I mean LEFT
Posted by: dlf
» RE: "Subjective" is right... I mean LEFT
Posted by: yellow
» RE: "Subjective" is right... I mean LEFT
Posted by: VisionQuest
» RE: "Subjective" is right... I mean LEFT
Posted by: dlf
Comments are closed-
Posted by: chuckville on Jun 15, 2007 5:58 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Kinda scraping the bottom of the barrel now, eh Joshua?
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» RE: Um...
Posted by: smendler
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Posted by: freethink7 on Jun 15, 2007 6:09 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Joshua: read this article…..Premeditated Merger North American Union Plan Headed to Congress in fall - Powerful Think tank Prepares report on benefits of integration between U.S., Mexico, Canada. Also read: Stop the North American Union website. Why in the world would our own government officials want to sacrifice our country’s sovereignty? One world government – that’s what all this globalization/globalism/global economy c#*p is about.
“google-schmoogle’ NAU and you will get approximately 80 million hits (some actually have some validity).
Information regarding the N.A.U. is even posted on the U.S.gov website in an audacious - unethical manner.
NAUPremeditated
StopNAU
google-schmoogle: NAU
p.s. Joshua: Also: 9/11 was an inside job!
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» RE: Dear Joshua Holland: Are You a Left Gatekeeper?
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» Very good comments from someone who admits he has done no research....... I like it!!!
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Very good comments from someone who admits he has done no research....... I like it!!!
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» The trumpet blew down the wall but left the gate standing?
Posted by: karma_ran_over_dogma
» RE: The trumpet blew down the wall but left the gate standing?
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: The trumpet blew down the wall but left the gate standing?
Posted by: karma_ran_over_dogma
» RE: The trumpet blew down the wall but left the gate standing?
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» ? - Not at all and
Posted by: karma_ran_over_dogma
» RE: ? - Not at all and
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» cool!
Posted by: karma_ran_over_dogma
» RE: cool!
Posted by: Joshua Holland
Comments are closed-
Posted by: albrechtkrausse on Jun 15, 2007 6:20 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Remember the EU started as a simple coal&steel treaty between, mainly, France&Germany. Now all rules are made by unelected bureacrats in Brussels, Luxembourg, and Strasbourg and one holds an 'EU' passport. Likewise the NAU has started with various, 'simple' trade agreements: NAFTA, CAFTA, SPP, etc. Notice things like SPP are managed/agreed upon without ANY voter input? I thought treaties needed to be approved. Now we have simple 'egg heads' signing treaties and making agreements for us? What kind of 'progressive', or anybody who believes in some kind of democratic, republican form of government, like secret treaties and groups of unelected 'egg heads' making decisions for us?
Note that one thing Holland get correct. The NAU aggrandisement is more 'market based' then the one used in Europe. This is simple tactics, the overall strategy is the same (central control over larger area, less civil rights, free movement of capital, etc) but 'American' people believe more in the 'market' and so this is being used. Whereas in Europe they used more 'progressive' ideals to implement their plan.
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» Oh, heaven forbid, using common sense...... a rearing of a rare phenomenae.... LOL
Posted by: Prophit
» Right - not a conspiracy, but a drift to guard against
Posted by: karma_ran_over_dogma
» "Conspiracy" is a loaded word used to deflect criticism of government, business elite machinations.
Posted by: albrechtkrausse
Comments are closed-
Posted by: riley on Jun 15, 2007 6:29 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
http://coanews.org/tiki-print_article.php?articleId=1922
A protest is supposed to be going on in Halifax from June 11-16. Right now, in other words. Maybe it's time to check out the Canadian news.
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Posted by: amphead on Jun 15, 2007 6:51 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Well, your nothing but a proposal is about to displace a million people here in Texas. I know the liberal elite could care less about Texas. We progressives here are simply written off as done for. The Trans -Texas Highway, which would be part of the new highway system from Canada to Mexico, would be getting underway soon if the Texas legislature hadn't put a sort of moratorium on it for 2 years. But Gov "Good Hair" Perry is looking for an end-around as I write. The asphalt plant planned to be built in my county to supply the highway is not nothing. Along with a coal powered energy plant for good measure. I don't give a fuck if it's a conspiracy or not, if I've got a 12 lane highway/railway through my back yard (if not directly over my property). No one in the liberal press seems to give a shit about that.
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» RE: It's more than just a proposal, dumbass!
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» Are you seriously saying that highway has nothing to do with the NAU???? Hahahaha!
Posted by: Prophit
» of course, how can anyone seriously say it does ...
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: of course, how can anyone seriously say it does ...
Posted by: Fog
» RE: of course, how can anyone seriously say it does ...
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» Not only that, but many of these have been signed already..... Duh!!!!
Posted by: Prophit
» I hate to even ask ...
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: It's more than just a proposal, dumbass!
Posted by: amphead
» RE: It's more than just a proposal, dumbass!
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: It's more than just a proposal, dumbass!
Posted by: amphead
» RE: It's more than just a proposal, dumbass!
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: It's more than just a proposal, dumbass!
Posted by: dlf
Comments are closed-
Posted by: albrechtkrausse on Jun 15, 2007 6:57 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: EinMD on Jun 15, 2007 7:23 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: chamela on Jun 15, 2007 7:24 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
All of these candidates are members of Rockefeller's Council on Foreign Relations (CFR), which advocates One World Government --
Fred Thompson
Rudy Giuliani
John McCain
Mitt Romney
Jim Gilmore
Newt Gingrich
Hillary Clinton
Barack Obama
John Edwards
Joe Biden
Chris Dodd
Bill Richardson
A great source for "insider" information about the plan for One World Government, as organized by David Rockefeller and his private thinktank, the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR) is Daniel Estulin's web site --
http://www.danielestulin.com/?op=noticias&idioma=en
You will also find documentation that demonstrates that David Rockefeller has purchased controlling stakes in NBC, CBS, and ABC in an effort to control the flow of information in the media.
"The Council on Foreign Relations (CFR) is the American Branch of a society which originated in England... (and) ...believes national boundaries should be obliterated and one-world rule established."
- Carroll Quigley, member of Council on Foreign Relations (CFR), mentor to Bill Clinton
"Once the ruling members of the CFR shadow government have decided that the U.S. Government should adopt a particular policy, the very substantial research facilities of (the) CFR are put to work to develop arguments, intellectual and emotional, to support the new policy, and to confound and discredit, intellectually and politically, any opposition."
- Admiral Chester Ward, former CFR member and Judge Advocate General of the U.S. Navy
"The main purpose of the Council on Foreign Relations is promoting the disarmament of U.S. sovereignty and national independence and submergence into an all powerful, one world government."
- Admiral Chester Ward, former CFR member and Judge Advocate General of the U.S. Navy
Also, if you haven't seen it -- the documentary "SPIN," which will blow your mind!!!
http://www.brasscheck.com/videos/spin/spin.html
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» RE: THE STORY ABOUT CFR & THE PLAN FOR ONE WORLD GOVERMENT
Posted by: yellow
» yo yellow
Posted by: chamela
» RE: yo yellow
Posted by: yellow
» The elites ARE shadowy...
Posted by: Coleman
» RE: yo yellow - part 2 - SOCIETY AND SPIRITUALITY
Posted by: chamela
» RE: yo yellow
Posted by: Roverton
» RE: THE STORY ABOUT CFR & THE PLAN FOR ONE WORLD GOVERMENT
Posted by: eyeswideoopen
» RE: THE STORY ABOUT CFR & THE PLAN FOR ONE WORLD GOVERMENT
Posted by: yellow
» RE: THE STORY ABOUT CFR & THE PLAN FOR ONE WORLD GOVERMENT
Posted by: eyeswideoopen
» And You Call Me Ignorant.
Posted by: yellow
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Illiteratilumen on Jun 15, 2007 7:32 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
All I know is this. There are very powerful people at work in the world toay and they aren't in much of a mood to invite me to their meetings. Many of the most powerful people are not part of any government. I am inclined to believe that they will not be passive while (s)elected officials decide their fate. Most will leverage their power when they are able to. Does that mean that they have inititated a global conspiracy to achieve a one-world government or a N. American government? I don't know that it does but I don't know that it doesn't, either. Like I said they don't invite me to their meetings.
Anyone who claims to know the mind of the world's most powerful people based off of some internet research is full of crap. There is simply too much information, some accurate, some not, to come to any conclusive proof about these sort of things.
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» People can make their own decisions from reading a variety of sources
Posted by: chamela
» Nothing wrong with that.
Posted by: Illiteratilumen
» claim everything, explain nothing, and deny everything
Posted by: chamela
» Paranoia=Vigilance
Posted by: Illiteratilumen
» RE: Plenty of (dis)information out there.
Posted by: dlf
» RE: Plenty of (dis)information out there.
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: Plenty of (dis)information out there.
Posted by: eyeswideoopen
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Lincoln fan on Jun 15, 2007 7:39 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
These are not shadowy forces; it is one force. The force of the corporate establishment that controls both of our parties' leaderships and hence, our government. There is nothing shadowy about campaign fund bribery and legislation written by industry lobbyists. There is nothing shadowy about the revolving door that puts former corporate executives in charge of departments that oversee their industries. It's not a dark secret; it's so blatant that people accept it as normal. The illusion of a republic ruled by the people is perpetuated by elections, that replace TweedleDee with TweedleDum.
Bob Reichenbach,
Director,The Lincoln Initiative
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Posted by: rjm on Jun 15, 2007 7:44 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
globalists represent the greatest threat to democracy the world has ever faced.
amerika the great, now complete with a legal acceptance of the private expropriation of public lands.
is this some sort of skit with you playing the role of neville chamberlain?
tks,
rjm
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Posted by: Idunno on Jun 15, 2007 7:53 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Holland, you are...
Posted by: Joshua Holland
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Posted by: emmapeel1967 on Jun 15, 2007 8:05 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: emmapeel
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: emmapeel
Posted by: babs
» RE: Manifest Destiny is an old, yet sadly persistent idea
Posted by: eyeswideoopen
Comments are closed-
Posted by: zooeyhall on Jun 15, 2007 8:21 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Jun 15, 2007 8:35 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In the 90's, the idea was to whip up fear of 'World Government'. Here, the goal is not to protect corporate profits, but to attempt to change the 'mass psychology' of the voting public. Any study of Goebbels and Nazi mythology will reveal how this strategy works. It's based on creating fear, because people who are afraid are more easily manipulated.
Take the astroturf 9/11 truth movement - one effect of this was to create the belief in an all-powerful government agency that was much like a religious deity. The CIA can do anything, go anywhere, can make buildings fall down, and controls everything on the planet, so you had better be afraid! Now, stay in your homes and don't cause trouble!
This is also how religious dictators ruled in the Middle Ages - the priests had a hotline to God, and they could damn you to eternal hellfire if you crossed them. (The word 'propaganda' derives from a Middle Age-era Vatican group called the "Congregatio de Propaganda Fide".)
This is basic psychology - social behavior. When a tribe of chimpanzees, or water buffalo for that matter, is threatened by a predator, the instinctive response is to group together, which makes it harder for the predator to pick off isolated members of the herd.
This explains the statement by the famous Nazi, Josef Goebbels:
"Why of course the people don't want war. Why should some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece? Naturally the common people don't want war neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."
This is a remarkable statement, because most people who use such tactics are reluctant to speak so honestly about them.
In this case, what you have is Republican operatives attempting to use fear to motivate their base. In the case of the religious right (a very strange and insular community - they are constantly being directed to the 'approved' news sources, and are very brainwashed), the Repugnant operatives bring up themes like 'the homosexual war against Christianity' and 'the secular war against Christianity' in order to motivate the masses. In the case of this "North American Union" nonsense, it seems to be an attempt to get the western rural white male on board - i.e. the militia types that McVeigh took his inspiration from before the Oklahoma Federal Building bombing.
Public relations, propaganda, pyschological operations - it's the basic mindset of any totalitarian, authoritarian regime - which is what Bush, Cheney and the Repugnant party are trying to create.
Remember: War is a Racket!
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» RE: ecall the militia movement, and 'world government' fears of the 90's?
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» rock on.
Posted by: Coleman
Comments are closed-
Posted by: The_Curmudgeon on Jun 15, 2007 8:39 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As the Birchers died down, the Club of Rome and Knights of Malta arose as the new conveyors of "truth" about the nefarious plot to rob America of its "vital bodily fluids," to quote George C. Scott's character in Dr. Stranglove.
Now, it's something called the North American Union.
Look at reality, folks. We have had these "anti-One Worlder conspiracy theories being kicked around by various knuckleheads since the end of World War II. As for the latest incarnation, it's a joke for a whole bunch of reasons:
- As an American who has lived in Canada since 1991, I can tell you that the quickest way for a federal politician to be voted out of office is to suggest even a hint of integration with the US. The current PM spent a good deal of the last election campaign trying to assure voters that he was not George Bush's puppet and had no interest in handing Canada over to America.
- The right-wing base of the Republican party would never sit still for a presidential candidate who even thought of the idea.
- The base of the Democratic party, for very different reasons, would want nothing to do with such a policy.
So who exactly are these evil, secretive NAUer's? Mostly, it seems. folks with too much time on their hands and access to a computer and the internet.
If you want to worry about something that's real and happening right now that is destroying the US, focus on Iraq, focus on civil liberties, focus on income disparity, focus on health care. But, for Pete's sake, don't focus on lunatic theories from the lunatic fringer.
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» Read "Blackwater" by Jeremy Scahill. He mentions the "Knights of Malta" and their
Posted by: albrechtkrausse
» RE: Look At Reality, Folks ...
Posted by: dlf
» No, no, no - look at the shiny object! Waste your time and energy!
Posted by: thoughtcriminal
» Yeah, And There Are Spaceships ...
Posted by: The_Curmudgeon
» RE: Yeah, And There Are Spaceships ...
Posted by: dlf
Comments are closed-
Posted by: pwood on Jun 15, 2007 9:03 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In answer to two of Joshua's call for information, please read the following articles for some factual data...
The Global Elite: Who are they?
Toward a North American Union
This writer has been analyzing the New International Economic Order since 1978. Yes, there are misconceptions and exaggerations about the NAU... but to say it's just a myth is irresponsible, ignorant and dangerous.
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» They're just slaves of the UFO people - who are the real masters!
Posted by: thoughtcriminal
» RE: The Global Elite: Who are they?
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: The Global Elite: Who are they?
Posted by: pwood
» RE: The Global Elite: Who are they?
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: The Global Elite: Who are they?
Posted by: pwood
» RE: The Global Elite: Who are they?
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: The Global Elite: Who are they?
Posted by: pacto
Comments are closed-
Posted by: karma_ran_over_dogma on Jun 15, 2007 9:21 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Then the few remaining Mexican plutocrats will lease Mexico to Club Med.
Canada? Like Iraq - easy to invade, tougher than you'd think to occupy!
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» RE: Merging with Mexico will be easy because
Posted by: babs
» A bit of Cree, Ojibwa, Inuktitut and Slavey would be useful too ...
Posted by: SayBlade
Comments are closed-
Posted by: lito on Jun 15, 2007 9:27 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
First I doubt this seriously since the Bush administration has always been supportive of more border security. But then I have to ask, what would be so bad about the free movement of people? Shouldn't that be a basic goal for anyone who believes in the concept of liberty? There may be practical problems, but we should be trying to fix those problems not building more walls.
Of course that isn't what these deals are attempting to do - and we should be skeptical of any such plan proposed by Washington (or the governments in Canada or Mexico). These trade deals are always about enforcing borders more than tearing them down - at least when it comes to human beings. They want commerce to be able to move about more freely, but not workers.
The anti-globalization movement is opposed to powerful business interests creating free trade deals at the expense of workers and the environment. The right-wing nuts are opposed to these deals because of bigotry and xenophobia. They are more afraid of a few day laborers with little power than of Halliburton.
shoplifters unite
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» Here's what is so bad about it...
Posted by: chamela
» RE: Here's what is so bad about it...
Posted by: lito
» RE: Here's what is so bad about it...
Posted by: yellow
» RE: What's So Bad About More Open Borders?
Posted by: pacto
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Posted by: HughScott on Jun 15, 2007 9:28 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This week, Senior Bush generated tremors by talking about the U.S. being an "assimilating" nation. The problem is, our culture is the one being assimilated, not the Hispanics.
Is it too much to imagine that in 50 years, there will be enough Latino voters in America to force a commercial union of Mexico and the United States, the way European countries did?
Not for me, it isn't. But then, I'm not trying to make a living writing AlterNet articles.
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» But tidal waves are not a conspiracy that earthquakes think up
Posted by: karma_ran_over_dogma
» What the hell does that mean, Karma? Are you on drugs again?
Posted by: HughScott
» just Cheez Wiz
Posted by: karma_ran_over_dogma
» WE ARE BEING ASSIMILATED! AHHHHH! HELP!
Posted by: Coleman
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Posted by: gary_7vn on Jun 15, 2007 9:34 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Jun 15, 2007 9:38 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That explains a lot of things. For example, in media corporations, where your co-board members also sit on big oil corporations, you don't want to be accused of harming their interests by publishing stories that result in lawsuits or loss of profits for your friends - you go to the same parties, you swim in the same circles.
If you expand this notion out to the entire corporate system, what you have is simply self-censorship.
Go to www.theyrule.net to see how corporate boards are structured. Go to 'find a connection', for example.
Enter "TimeWarner Inc." and "Exxon Mobil". The connection chain is from ExxonMobil to board member William R. Howell to Pfizer to Franklin D. Raines to TimeWarner (CNN).
Now, doesn't this explain why CNN promoted the war in Iraq, which resulted in world-record profits for ExxonMobil? Doesn't this explain why CNN won't run negative stories on Big Pharma? Play around with the site a little - it's quite fascinating.
This isn't some 'conspiracy theory' - it's just the way the business world has ALWAYS worked, which is the fundamental reason why business and government need to be kept separate. Unfortunately, what's happened is the 'revolving door' phenomenon, exemplified by Donald Rumsfeld.
Rumsfeld went from Nixon's White House to Big Pharma to Reagan's White House to Big Pharma and back to Bush Jr's White House - as just one example. Along the way, he made billions in profits for Searles, for Merck, and for Gilead, who happens to own the patent for Tamiflu, the so-called 'avian flu drug' - which doesn't work... not that that kept the government from giving Merck and Gilead $7 billion, which resulted in Rumsfeld's Gilead holdings going from $5 million to $25 million in value.
Get it now?
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» correct, so lets all take a nuanced view
Posted by: Coleman
» Spot on, thoughtcriminal
Posted by: eddie torres
» RE: Sigh... it's not some big conspiracy, it just that...
Posted by: dover23
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Posted by: LetsSaveDemocracy on Jun 15, 2007 9:41 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
its transparent josh. you're not very good at your job.
shame on alternet for keeping you on board.
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» RE: the good news
Posted by: Joshua Holland
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Posted by: Ghoulman on Jun 15, 2007 10:40 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Being a conspiracy reader myself, this is a real scoop. And being Canadian, the Free Trade debate is fresh in our history and memory. A major change that was hotly debated all over the land.
It was terrific to mention Maude Barlow... "of the Council for Canadians have warned for some time that the SPP is part of a push, financed by Canadian and U.S. corporate think tanks, to essentially bring an end to Canada's social welfare state through regional integration."
... so true.
Here's an example; By 1995 the Paul Martin Liberal government had, with Free Trade already in full swing, axed our world famous health care systems funding in half. HALF. Currently it's funding level is the lowest on our history. You know all those stories of long lines at Canadian hospitals? That's why. All that money went into funding corporate ventures like biotech, oil in the tar sands, and so on. That money would be our tax dollars.
Culturally, Canadians don't go in for conspiracy theories. We knew damn well Washington would never deal fairly in business (WTO, my arse!). They never have. The only difference between how Washington deals with Canada over Mexico is that they don't shoot Canadians.
But these conspiracy theories, as J. points out, work uniquely well on Americans. Why? Because they are a culture living in fear of being destroyed. That's insane, of course, but the TV (and certain Presidents) tell Americans every day their families are in deadly danger. So any story about a conspiracy to take over the US, from this latest NAU to the UN being a world government (run by reptilian Jews from Mars no doubt), plays. It really plays. I mean, Americans were sold the idea that there was a world wide terrorist organization planning a "caliphate" from India to Morocco. Dick Cheney still tells this wopper and frack man, no one ever pointed out that was insane.
Somehow, I think the Swift Boat people, and where ever they get their $$$ (hmmm, Karl Rove?), and their ilk will feed this little theory to the poor and ignorant of America with all the gusto the KKK sells the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. Which, originally, was a screed against the Tsar of Russia. Someone just crossed out "Tsar" and put in "Jews". Funny? Well, it fooled Henry Ford... for a while. ;p
At least this conspiracy theory doesn't have any aliens in it. I'm sooo sick of aliens. :D
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» SO why doesn't Ghoulman get the red star?!
Posted by: DaBear
» Happy? (NT)
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: conomics and Americans, always fascinating
Posted by: dlf
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Posted by: Darrell Kern on Jun 15, 2007 10:53 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Again, typical Bush fashion will dictate several conspiracy theory debunks- He addressed the nation and expressed concern that we not get caught up in conspiracy theories.
First if they were merely conspiracy theories- the president would not acknowledge such lameness. Secondly, he made a huge issue out of it, which clearly indicates there is truth in it which is why he is opposed to people talking about it.
Connie Fogal (Canadian Public Action Leader) openly discusses that the NAU is currently happening: Google her name.
Lou Dobbs addresses not only the NAU, but also points out that the highest levels of all three countries are deeply involved and are busting our own policies and constitutions to achieve the NAU and pushes for the Amero (American version of the Euro).
Google Lou Dobbs and the NAU.
In a nutshell the reporter for this Debunking article is not only an ill-informed boob- he also can't write for shit either. He cannot even sell it other professional debunker's. He really ought to be hawking Slurpies at his local 7-11 and leave the reporting to the grown-ups.
Because we have an election year coming up- all the shitty things the administration is involved in are going to buried in debunker land- or at least they are going to try. I find it fascinating they even debunk at all given they (our administration) doesn't give a rats ass what we think, want and/or have to say about it.
I did post the links but the edit command said I had words that are too long! Funny how that works, eh?
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» One small tip, Darrell
Posted by: HeroesAll
» RE: One small tip, Darrell
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: One small tip, Darrell- THANKS HERO!
Posted by: Darrell Kern
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Posted by: Soco on Jun 15, 2007 11:05 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
People on the "Establishment" Left and Right now that real Americans on the left and right have common concerns about this very real issue. It's looks like the same people seed news outlets trying to debunk this because real people on each side have a commonality, but attempt to keep the lines of division going strong. "Don't look at the facts" you say, "it's a conspiracy theory." Well, shit, it's very well documented and Giuliani is working for a law firm in Texas representing a Mexican interest to get it done. One of many links can be drawn to support the fact. So, AlterNet is doing it's duty to keep it's readership dumbed down on the Left.
Wonder why neither side is tackling the real illegal immigration issue that real Americans on the left and right want solved (As in get the hell out)? Liberals preach the "human rights" crap and the right want cheap labor. Either way the trusted "Establishment" Dems and Repubs screw the common American. It's truly a one party system, each doing their part to destroy the country for a buck.
Sovereignty is being replaced by commerce and freetrade (That ain't free for us) for elites. They lied before, they'll lie again.
"The only people that don't know about it is the Americans"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hiPrsc9g98
http://www.canadafreepress.com/2007/kincaid051407.htm
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Posted by: willymack on Jun 15, 2007 11:06 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Wow!
Posted by: shanaza
» RE: Wow!
Posted by: eyeswideoopen
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Posted by: BlueBerry PickN on Jun 15, 2007 11:08 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Going for Broke: are Bu$heviks banking on Canadian resources?
you wanna KNOW it... the US is going broke.
China & other foreign investors are buying up both government & PRIVATE debts.
Canada to raise U.S. bank policy with security czar
When *American UNIONS* figure out that they've let Corporatists fuel their paranoia by *bargaining AGAINST* fellow Peoples of *North America*, they'll realize that the corporate poison has been yearning to find a way to pillage the continent with an ample DIVIDED workforce.
"US may collapse as a superpower": analyst - The World Today
pay attention, don't listen to the propaganda.
When the US has closed its borders, controls union assembly, sold off its transportation & control of ports for resources, sources of power & trade, closed down communications... where do you wanna be??
if you find yourself saying, "I'll run for Canada!" then...
GET ACTIVE: join with the PEOPLES of North America & the GLOBE to protect our natural resources.
...& protect OUR collective Future.
meanwhile... why is the shiny new 'terror training' prison... @ BlackJack Village??
so ask yourself: if the Corporate Bushevik solution is the Green Zone in Iraq...
what might their SOLUTION be for the rest of us?
I bet it looks a lot like Dubai's The World...
Spread Love...
... but wear the Glove!
BlueBerry Pick'n
can be found @
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Posted by: Minutia on Jun 15, 2007 11:15 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
the FTA, NAFTA and now the SPP are all within the neoliberal policy direction: less power to workers and their communities; limited power of government to regulate and shape the market...
social activists, academics, workers, progressive legislators and independent media outlets from Canada, Mexico and the United States are challenging the big-business driven vision of North American integration contained in the Security and Prosperity Partnership.
In March 2005, Paul Martin, George W. Bush and Vicente Fox met in Waco, Texas to ratify the Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America (SPP). The SPP takes NAFTA's goal of continental economic integration much further by including security and foreign policy issues, and by speeding up the process of regulatory harmonization integral to the first Canada-U.S. Free Trade Agreement. Despite a lack of public awareness or input, lack of debate and votes within each legislature, all three North American right-wing governments are moving quickly and undemocratically toward a continental resource pact, North American security perimeter, and common agricultural and other polices related to our health and environment. Working groups comprised of government executive branches, bureaucrats and corporate leaders are putting this “partnership” into action behind closed doors, that is a fact.
anti-spp folks seek a relationship among Canada, Mexico and the US that can be fostered through fair and ethical trade and multilateralism.
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» RE: NAU is the Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America
Posted by: Joshua Holland
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Posted by: kjh71ca on Jun 15, 2007 11:38 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Powerful think tank prepares report on benefits of integration between U.S., Mexico, Canada
Global Research, May 24, 2007
WorldNetDaily.com
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WASHINGTON – A powerful think tank chaired by former Sen. Sam Nunn and guided by trustees including Richard Armitage, Zbigniew Brzezinski, Harold Brown, William Cohen and Henry Kissinger, is in the final stages of preparing a report to the White House and U.S. Congress on the benefits of integrating the U.S., Mexico and Canada into one political, economic and security bloc.
The final report, published in English, Spanish and French, is scheduled for submission to all three governments by Sept. 30, according to the Center for Strategic & International Studies.
CSIS boasts of playing a large role in the passage of the North American Free Trade Agreement in 1994 – a treaty that set in motion a political movement many believe resembles the early stages of the European Community on its way to becoming the European Union.
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Posted by: sausage on Jun 15, 2007 11:39 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Who might that be?
The usual suspects: the Coors family, Richard Mellon Scaif, Helen Krieble and a galaxy of lesser known reactionary luminaries. And while these self-appointed champions of American sovereignty wave the Uncle Sam's bloody shirt to rouse reactionary dupes to action, their stock portfolios wax fat off profits from corporations that outsource, union-bust, globalize and hire undocumented labor, surreptitiously smuggled across our borders and in our unguarded harbors.
So as the heathens of neoKnow-Nothingism, nativism and good, old fashioned racism howl at the moons of "illegal immigration," NAFTA Super Highways, Mexican truckers and the North America Union, their benefactors are laughing all the way to the bank. Oh, and by the way, The Coors, Scaif, Krieble, et al., are not laughing with their reactionary minions but at them.
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» RE: So what the hell's wrong with a NAU?
Posted by: eyeswideoopen
» RE: So what the hell's wrong with a NAU?
Posted by: sausage
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Posted by: DaBear on Jun 15, 2007 11:43 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: gracefounddog on Jun 15, 2007 12:07 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: I'm glad to see not all readers falling for the author's.....
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» Just admit it Josh...
Posted by: dover23
» RE: I'm glad to see not all readers falling for the author's.....
Posted by: gracefounddog
» RE: I'm glad to see not all readers falling for the author's.....
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: I'm glad to see not all readers falling for the author's.....
Posted by: gracefounddog
» RE: I'm glad to see not all readers falling for the author's.....
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: I'm glad to see not all readers falling for the author's.....
Posted by: gracefounddog
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Posted by: Gitaiba on Jun 15, 2007 1:25 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Brilliant!
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Brilliant!
Posted by: Gitaiba
» RE: Brilliant!
Posted by: Knowmad
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Posted by: ERICO1 on Jun 15, 2007 3:29 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is fun too:
"The NAU conspiracy theorists would have you believe
the impossible: that all of that will be done under
cover of the metaphorical dead of night, while
Americans are sleeping, and nobody will notice until
it's too late. That is, nobody but those who are "wide
awake" enough to embrace their conspiratorial
worldview."
Yeah, you mean like the Patriot Act? How about that
Federal Reserve and Income tax? - those were pretty
damn huge - done in the dead of night, and nobody
noticed until it was too late.
What this writer aso fails to see is that it's not a
Bush admin or Republican idea.
..."it would quickly be rejected not only by most
Americans, but also by every member of Congress who
likes the idea of serving another term."
You mean like the Patriot Act? Iraq war? Funding for
the war recently? That one is hilarious.
Nor does this writer himself mention the blatent open
borders policy. The influx of illegal immigrants of
larger than history has ever seen. All while we are
supposedly fighting a "War On Terror" to keep
Terrorists out.. we have on average pof 3000 illegal
aliens entering the vountry on a daily basis, worse
than ever - and we have the latest legislation to
essentially pardon everyone, i don't mind the
immigrants, what i do mind is pretending that somethng
is being done about it.
Just like the wannabe 9/11 debunkers, he doesn't look
at the whole picture. He doesn't mention the meeting
that was made btwn the 3 heads of the 3 countries in
2005 that started this mess. How members of the press
that were there have come out and discussed what they
witnessed. He doesn't mention the AMERO - the AMERO
which is teh proposed currency that even Wikipedia has
an entry on.
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» RE: Joshua Holland calls himself a journalist?
Posted by: shanaza
» RE: Joshua Holland calls himself a journalist?
Posted by: dlf
» RE: Joshua Holland calls himself a journalist?
Posted by: eyeswideoopen
» RE: Joshua Holland calls himself a journalist?
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Joshua Holland calls himself a journalist?
Posted by: eyeswideoopen
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Posted by: minmotstand on Jun 15, 2007 4:23 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Then a few years later, all of a sudden we have the Euro and with every passing day the EU centr
