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Dem Debate: Edwards, Hillary and Obama Slug It Out on Iraq

By David Corn, TheNation.com. Posted June 4, 2007.


Edwards slams Clinton and Obama on the war. But Hillary holds her own, while Obama coasts.

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There are no major differences among us regarding the Iraq war.

So said Senator Hillary Clinton at Sunday night's Democratic presidential debate in New Hampshire.

There are profound differences among us regarding the Iraq war.

So said former Senator John Edwards at the same debate.

The difference over the difference was the main point of contention of the event. The positions staked out by the leading candidates were--no shocker here--obvious. Clinton wants to play down the fact that until recently she was out of step with Democratic primary voters concerning the war, for she had (a) voted to grant George W. Bush the authority to attack Iraq and then (b) more or less defended the war for several years before she (c) announced her campaign for presidency and starting calling (and voting) for an end to the war. So on the stage she pointed out that "we all believe we need to end the war." She added that whatever disagreements exist among the Democrats on how best to do so, these disputes are trivial given that every major Republican running to succeed Bush supports the president on the war. "This is George Bush's war," she declared.

It was a typical frontrunner's performance. Focus not on the rivals in your own party but on the other side. After all, Clinton doesn't want to encourage Democratic voters to compare the Democratic contenders on the Iraq war.

Edwards--who's placing third in the national polls but first in the Iowa polls--needs a line of attack on Clinton and Senator Barack Obama. So at the debate, he maintained there's an immense gap between himself and the other two. He defined it as the "difference between leading and following." He noted--correctly--that when the recent Iraq war funding bill was up for a vote in the Senate, he vociferously urged the Democrats in the Senate to say no to Bush, while Clinton and Obama went mum. Sure, Edwards went on, Clinton and Obama ended up voting against the funding, but they did so "quietly" and said nothing about how they would vote before the roll was called. That, Edwards maintained, is not leadership.

Edwards had a point--but perhaps a minor one. Is this criticism enough to fuel his attempt to overtake Clinton and Obama? Edwards' claim that he's the best antiwar candidate of the leading Democrats would have more potency if his current position were significantly different from theirs. But Clinton and Obama, by voting against the Iraq funding measure, did not give Edwards the opening he craved. And at the debate, Obama had a good comeback. "It is important to lead," he said, adding "I opposed this war from the start...not years late." Edwards, like Clinton, voted to give Bush the authority to start the war.

So among the Democrats' three leaders, there's a candidate who was initially against the war and now pledges to end it, a candidate who voted for the war and now pledges to end it, and a candidate who voted for the war and now pledges to end it and who criticizes his two key opponents for not being sufficiently passionate in their opposition to the war. Viva la difference? Or not.

Clinton hopes to blur the edges; Edwards needs to sharpen them. Meanwhile, Obama cannot coast on his original opposition to the war. If he and Clinton are at the same place now on the most critical issue for Democratic voters, he's going to have a tough time upsetting her apple cart. On Iraq--the dominant topic of the night--this debate did not achieve much for Clinton's main rivals. With Edwards' support slipping and Obama's support softening in the most recent national poll, each needs a boost more than she does. Bottom-line (for those keeping score at home): it was a good night for the former First Lady. Anytime she makes it through a debate without being clobbered, she's the winner.

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See more stories tagged with: democratic debate, john edwards, barack obama, hillary clinton, iraq, health care

David Corn is the Washington editor of The Nation and author of "The Lies of George W. Bush: Mastering the Politics of Deception." He writes a blog at davidcorn.com.

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Typical appeasing liberal
Posted by: Universal on Jun 4, 2007 4:10 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why give time to three appeasing war criminals. How about a commentary on Kucinich, Gravel and the way the corporate media manipulated the time of their annointed "rock stars"???
You are feeding into the appeasement and confusion of who really reflects most the anti war position of the public.

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Repuks or Dempuks
Posted by: solrev on Jun 4, 2007 4:42 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I thought Foxy Newsy was bad but CNN is Chicken Little. The seating, outsiders who represent change were on the outside. Like this article tier one is being pushed down the people’s throat. I wish some journalist would time the debaters. Why they even bother to have Kucinich in the debate amazes me, oh yea, free country. Biden had a good one, if you want to end the pork public finance elections, then we would not have to sell our vote to the special interests, to keep our job. I love the, I voted for it before I voted against it candidates. Here is a good one from Status Quo Ho, if I knew then that being against the war is required for election in 2008, I would not have voted for it. The gambler says, “the repuks are going to beat dempuks in 2008. They have a mild manner reporter lying in the weeds a snake in the grass. Someone who is against the war but for the occupation, we broke we fix it, but I’ll save you from the Muslim hoards, its Gods will.

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» RE: epuks or Dempuks Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: epuks or Dempuks Posted by: solrev
Backing music
Posted by: Captainmagic on Jun 4, 2007 4:52 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Did anybody notice the backing music to the debate......I was sure it was the old seventies theme song from the movie "Billy Jack"....but then maybe it wasn't...Mmmmmmm

Captain OUT

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TO THE ANSWER COALITION & MOVEON.ORG
Posted by: michaelo on Jun 4, 2007 6:51 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
“NOW IS THE TIME FOR ALL GOOD ‘CITIZENS’ TO COME TO THE AID OF THEIR COUNTRY”
...

Close Down Washington - Kucinich for President!

This is an answer to the Answer Coalition’s plea for a million anti-war protestor demonstration in Washington – and to the pathetic pleadings of MoveOn.Org for guidance … again.

Its time for the “progressive movement” in this country to get fucking real!
1967: Lyndon Baines Johnson and the Rumsfield Corporate State predecessor, Robert McNamara, were knee deep in the quagmire of Southeast Asia (Vietnam war,) promising to “end the war” in victory with a light at the “end of the tunnel" and the anti war movement and its Civil Rights and Black Liberation allies were readying themselves to defeat Johnson and McNamara and the military hawks in Congress and the Pentagon.

Under the umbrella of the then mass movement were organizations with a revolutionary –to- progressive agenda for systemic change: the Students for a Democratic Society, the Black Panther Party, the Socialist Worker’s Party, UFW (United Farm Workers Union,) tghe Peace and Freedom Party and even the politically corrupt Communist Party USA had a vision of a more equitable system. While they failed at changing the growing Corporate State system that replaced ruling class capitalism, they were aimed in the right direction:

All those organizations challenged the inequality of the means of production; the inequitable distribution of profits earned from that production; the stagnate status of worker-producers-service-providers organizations; the systemic racial and gender oppression and exploitation; the military imperialism of capital and the militarized, class and cultural stratification of the new managerial class system dominating the post-WWII era as it was being institutionalized under the development of the military-industrial-media complex.

It was countering the conservative managerial class culture of “suburbia” with its pastel sensitivities and white “father knows best” form of gentle misogyny. (Note: the failure to produce revolutionary results was not due to that impetus, but to a combination of an failed notion of “revolutionary organization,” the historic period in the development of the American class society, and the police apparatus of the Hoover-Nixon regime.”)

Today, 40 years later as we face the growing military takeover of the Middle East, the Imperial Globalization of the “developing world,” and fascism at home. Now ask yourself: Today, what are the organizations with a revolutionary impetus to help us: FUCKING ZIP! NADA. NONE. ZERO!

FULL ARTICLE @ http://losangelesfreepress.com/node/374
http://losangelesfreepress.com/node/374

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Are you kidding me --"Hillary holds her own?"
Posted by: HughScott on Jun 4, 2007 8:28 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Does that mean we REALLY are safer now than before 9/11 -- Bush's bullshit mantra that Billary repeated at last night's debate?

John Edwards was right. The war on terror is a bumper sticker slogan that allows disingenuous politicians like Bush and Billary to declare victory over unnamed enemies in the future without ever having to admit defeat or lack of progress.

At the risk of sounding sexist, take away $26 million plus Slick Willie and all you have left of Hillary Rodham Clinton is an empty pants suit.

To help keep Bill’s flyweight understudy from becoming, God forbid, commander-in-chief of our armed forces, visit the nonpartisan website: www.STOP-Hillary.com.

Okay, you Clinton fans -- BRING IT ON!

Hugh E. Scott, Vietnam veteran, lifelong registered Republican, Kerry supporter in 2004 and editor of the nonprofit investigative website, King-George.biz -- the only one with hardcopy proof of White House corruption.

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Who to vote for in 2008.
Posted by: HughScott on Jun 4, 2007 11:47 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Bush says we’re winning the war on terror. So does Hillary.
Bush favors amnesty for illegal aliens. So does Hillary.
Bush believes in globalization. So does Hillary.
Bush wants more “free” trade agreements like NAFTA. So does Hillary.

Therefore in 2008, vote for Bushillary Clinton.

Or, if you're a Democrat who loves America, write in Dennis K.
For Republicans, do the same for Ron Paul.

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KUCINICH KUCINICH!
Posted by: thelostsailor on Jun 4, 2007 12:09 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yes, who cares about the 3 candidates that MOST media has already determined will be the winners. We don't need anymore coverage of these GQ/People celebrities- I'll read ANY other news source for that....

Only Kucinich expressed humanity, plain and simple, on the stage yesterday. Imagine a candidate for president using the P word!!!

PEACE

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Ron Paul is STILL a Republican, with Republican principles.
Posted by: Ellie1 on Jun 4, 2007 2:39 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Look at his web site. Subtract the war, and you get a right wing Republican. Especially on women's issues. Ron Paul? I don't think so.

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Kucinich?
Posted by: Jeanne on Jun 4, 2007 6:36 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Was he not there? If one were to go by the article, you'd have to assume only Edwards, Clinton, and Obama showed up. I didn't watch the debate, I admit. My mind is made up. I'm voting Kucinich until his name isn't on the ballot. They I'm writing in a name. None of the remaining hopefuls deserves my vote.

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I Agree - Why is it only about the so-called big 3?
Posted by: bluesmanjohnson on Jun 4, 2007 7:38 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I agree with just about all the posts on here criticizing this poor attempt at journalism. Perhaps this is an omen, but I was too busy dealing with the cops after my house was broken into yesterday to watch the debate. That said, it's been impossible to get any news about it beyond mass media and their commentary about how Hillary "looks presidential" and was "taking over" etc. That's all this post is. In '00 the corporate medial and back room brokers shoved a hapless (as a candidate) Al Gore up our you-know-what, and he lost to the one of the biggest morons in the history of the world. In '04 the monied Democratic power brokers closed ranks behind an even bigger dickhead (again, as a candidate, not necessary as a policy maker) in Kerry, and he lost to the man that was virtually proven to be a traitor to this country on a horriffic scale. Democrats were too stupid to nominate Bradley in 00, too stupid to nominate Clark in 04, and will again be too stupid to nominate someone outside of the big three this time. Part of that is because we are so often told who is in play and who is not, almost a year before the first vote is ever cast.

Pick someone that beats the Law and Order TV guy, or the perfect hair square chin Governor guy in a national election. I'm sorry, but that's all we need to think about. I love Kucinich, but please, people, get behind someone that beats those two head to head. Maybe Edwards does, but I doubt OBama and Hillary do - even if they would be fine presidents. You still need some of the "Bubba" vote to get the job done. I think Richardson, his resume, his red state appeal, his influence on a growing and important constituiency, and his coattail potential in places out west where Democrats are making inroads under Dean's leadership, woudl be the most formidable in a national election. He's the anti-Hillary all you peace lovin' dreamers should think about. Why don't all you Kucinich-lovin' peaceniks get behind Richardson? He's walked the walk, and is electable nation wide. Two things Kucinich cannot say - despite how I personally admire the man.

How did Bill Richardson do? Did he take a dump on the stage or something? I'm curious, but the person that wrote this story obviously is not.

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Is the skill to give sound bytes mean you would be a good Prez?
Posted by: MountainMike on Jun 4, 2007 8:24 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Both Edwards and Hillary are smooth because they are rich and have acting coaches, speech writers and talking point memos. The only thing lacking is a teleprompter to see if they can read a script. Obama is the only one that really passed the "cojones" test on the war funding bill. He is more spontaneous because he speaking from his own personal convictions. This is precisely why I hate debates, as the skill to win these debates does not related to really filling the job description.

I am always willing to listen to David Corn, one of my favorite editorialists since his "Bush Lies" book. Thank you Davidl

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Why is she Hillary?
Posted by: redrab on Jun 5, 2007 8:45 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why is Hillary Clinton the only person in the headline listed by her first name? The other two are listed by their last names. Does the columnist know Ms. Clinton personally but not the other two? Or is Ms. Clinton a child?

Perhaps he was trying to be clear which Clinton is referred to in the article. If so, why would a former president be in the list with two candidates?

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Cooked @ MOB AMERIKA
Posted by: Hal on Jun 5, 2007 11:43 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
“Anytime she [Hillary Clinton] makes it through a debate without being clobbered, she's the winner”.

Oh? Here’s a piece of news for Corn and his Nation magazine: the fact any of these high profile clowns are taken seriously by anyone makes America a worldclass loser.

And so we are shoveled yet another bit of faux Corn Nation puffery emblematic of everything wrong @ a "leftwing" MSM carny show that pretends to be what it is not. That of course, would be an effective alternative to an equally cooked “right”.

But nothing new here. It’s all pretend BS for the suckers.

As others have said only Gravel and Kucinich on the “left” are anything like real candidates. The others are stock Stepford drones for a corporate monopoly mob that winds them up for a DC runway show paid for by the usual suspects.

The fact Corn actually earns a living wage writing bilge like this is a clear sign of a grotesque 4th estate and a sicker society buffaloed by Mob Amerika Corp. (Again, nothing new here)

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Edwards usually is not mentioned at all
Posted by: FeralCat on Jun 6, 2007 1:07 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
by the MSM. This is the first time he has not be marginalized along with Dodd, Kucinich ets. Edwards is definitley the outisider of the group as far as being a politician. Even though Hillary has only held elected office a year more than Edwards, she seems like the consumate insider. Richardson too has been in politics almost as long as Biden. Obama has been thinking about politics all his adult life and like many of them a poli sci major. Edwards majored in textile technology. So, I think people on this site ought to give him another look. His healthcare plan is very good. His signature issue of addressing income disparity is way ahead of its time. His push to bring the troops home now is earnest and urgent.

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