COMMENTS: 97
Pentagon's Teen Recruiting Methods Would Make Tobacco Companies Proud
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Thousands of America's children, however, are not so lucky. Almost 600,000 of America's 1 million active and reserve soldiers enlisted as teens. The military lures these physiologically immature kids with a PR machine that would make Joe Camel proud.
While the age of legal and cultural adulthood can vary, science is now able to determine the physiological markers of maturity. A recent study headed by Jay Giedd of the National Institutes of Health using MRI scans shows that the brain of an 18-year-old is not fully developed, with the limbic cortex-brain structures, the cerebellum and prefrontal cortex still undergoing substantial changes.
As of March 31, the U.S. military included 81,000 teenagers. Its 7,350 17-year-olds needed parental consent to enlist, and only this April were all barred from battle zones.
But the military aims even lower, marketing itself to children as young as 13 with multimedia videos, school visits and cold calls to teens' homes and cell phones. In Junior ROTC, kids get uniforms, win medals, fire real guns and play soldier, while adults trained in psychological manipulation steer them toward the army. The Army's JROTC website lists such motivating activities as "eating at concession stands."
A mature prefrontal cortex, "the area of sober second thought," is vital not only to deciding whether to enlist, but also to choices made under the stress of deployment and the terrors of combat. But the prefrontal cortex, "important for controlling impulses, is among the last brain regions to mature," according to Giedd, and doesn't reach "adult dimensions until the early 20s."
Teenagers' brains simply lack the impulse control that can prevent a lifetime of regret, psychological and physical disability, and preventable deathstheir own, their fellow soldiers' and those of civilians.
The child soldier problem Is global and so is America's part in it. More than 300,000 children around the world, some as young as seven, serve as soldiers, or, in the case of girls, as military sex slaves. The State Department reports that 10 countries are violating international treaties against child soldiers. Washington provides military assistance to nine of these outlaw nations: Afghanistan, Burundi, Chad, Colombia, Ivory Coast, Democratic Republic of Congo, Sri Lanka, Sudan and Uganda.
The reason the United States and other militaries target children is their need for cannon fodder, coupled with the vulnerability of youth. In 2002, almost half of Marine recruits were 17 or 18. A Pentagon survey found that "for both males and females, propensity [to enlist] is highest among 16- and 17-year-olds." That "propensity" quickly declines with age.
A 2004 Pentagon database listed the number of 16- and 17-year- olds who applied for active service enlistment at 69,000 and 18- year-olds at 73,000. By 19, the count had dropped to 49,000 and by age 24 had plummeted to 9,700.
The Department of Defense (DoD) spends more than $4 billion a year on recruiting, with $1.5 billion for advertising and maintaining the recruiting stations staffed by more than 22,000 recruiters. Much of that money goes to convincing children to become soldiers.
A recruiters' handbook discusses creepy seduction techniques with all the subtlety of predatory stalking. Adult recruiters skilled in "projecting credibility" lurk in snack joints, set up laptops playing action-packed videos, proffer rides and promise friendship and fatherly advice. With blacks particularly skeptical of the war effort, the military is aggressively targeting Hispanics with multimillion dollar marketing campaigns that include chatting up mothers and attending church. Recruiters get non- English speaking parents to sign enlistment papers for 17-year- olds by letting them believe that service is mandatory, or that they were approving blood tests, according to the New York Times.
Recruiters also try to win over high school guidance counselors with offers of "extended tours, VIP trips ( A day in the life of a sailor') or workshops."
A DoD training manual instructs recruiters to appropriate the techniques that pharmaceutical salespeople use to convince doctors to prescribe the most profitable drugs: "Pharmaceutical representatives court doctors and provide incentives to them in exchange for listening to a sales pitch and considering their products." DoD advises following the pharma model by offering "personalized incentives in exchange for some of their time (bring food when asking favors.)"
The manual suggests bribing teachers: "Provide lunch for teachers in exchange for information." It quotes an anonymous teacher: "Giving teachers pencils and calendars lets us know that you understand our needs and support us. We, in turn, are more likely to support your efforts in the future."
"Chiefs of warfare reach out to children precisely because they are innocent, malleable, impressionable," says Olara Otunnu, the U.N. Special Representative for Children and Armed Conflict.
The science is clear: Turning children below the age of brain maturity into soldiers, whether in the United States or Sudan, exploits that vulnerability.
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Posted by: Obijuan on May 22, 2007 1:11 AM
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There are two ways to fix this problem. The best way would be to reduce our need for a huge standing army drawn from mostly the poor by changing our primary means of dealing with our international neighbors. However, since most "free thinking" Americans see war as an acceptable form of foreign policy, the other equitable solution is to reintroduce the draft. Then the burden of military service will be share by every citizen in some way or another, and war will again feel and smell like it should. But of course, the controlling elite in America will never let that happen again, unless they can find a way to exclude themselves and their own.
The perhaps even more scary trend is the predominant Christian undertones of the US Army.
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» RE: The PFC is important
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: The PFC is important
Posted by: CriminallySane
» RE: The PFC is important
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: The PFC is important
Posted by: CriminallySane
» RE: The PFC is important
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: The PFC is important
Posted by: zorro
» RE: The PFC is important
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: The PFC is important
Posted by: Merchant_Of_Menace
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Posted by: mmales on May 22, 2007 1:32 AM
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mmales@earthlink.net
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» HEAR F#CKING HEAR!
Posted by: Erik1968
» RE: HEAR F#CKING HEAR!
Posted by: mmales
» RE: HEAR F#CKING HEAR!
Posted by: zorro
» RE: HEAR F#CKING HEAR!
Posted by: mmales
» RE: Mike Males
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: Mike Males
Posted by: mmales
» RE: Actually, the research continues to support what the author wrote
Posted by: mmales
» RE: Actually, the research continues to support what the author wrote
Posted by: mmales
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Posted by: gdonald on May 22, 2007 5:25 AM
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If parents choose to enlist their minors in JrROTC then so be it. It's a private matter between parents and their children. The law as written today states 18 as legal age to make your own choices.
I wrote and called my Congressman and Senator before we went in to Iraq to stop the war before it started. I have been opposed to the war all the way. I say that to say this. This is an anti-war hit piece and done very poorly. If a nation is to survive then it needs a military and the fact is old men do not fight well but young men do. A nations military is not here to be kinder and gentler. The military is a killing machine and that is why it is important to have politicians who understand this and who understand that you don't send your military to fight unless you intend to win and unless the reasons for war are valid. Good politician's set the goal for what the political objective is and then lets the military planners execute the war to meet the political objective. Once that objective is met then it falls back to the hands of the ambassadors and politicians to sign the treaties. Our modern day politicians don't understand that.
I suggest that if we don't want needless wars then start electing independent candidates who aren't beholding to corporate interests and who have no ties to the main two parties.
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» Her's the link..
Posted by: SteveB
» United States VETOED UN Security Council Resolution against Child Soldiers.
Posted by: brotherjonah
» It is NOT a private matter between a parent and child
Posted by: Rune
» Rune, your assumptions are wrong
Posted by: gdonald
» RE: une, your assumptions are wrong
Posted by: zorro
» zorro
Posted by: gdonald
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Posted by: ateo on May 22, 2007 6:27 AM
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I would suggest you be thankful that the beast we have created is still pretending it cares what we the people think. In most countries (including "enlightened Europe", a golden boy of the American left - although conscription is being reduced/eliminated drastically throughout the EU) military service is simply an obligation and if your precious little son or daughter refuses to serve they go to prison.
In the U.S., as we all know, the bottom line is the market place and what it will allow. Apparently there are people in the U.S. so economically desperate or intellectually stupid (patriotism, what a joke) that they are willing to risk their lives for less than minimum wage. That's the U.S. military for you - dying for a few bucks an hour.
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» RE: We are all responsible for this government
Posted by: Doubtom
» Right, this beast was born before I was, I was using "we" as a figure of speech - N/T
Posted by: ateo
» RE: We are all responsible for this government
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» Bob, great reply
Posted by: gdonald
» RE: We are all responsible for this government
Posted by: Joshua Holland
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Posted by: otto on May 22, 2007 6:38 AM
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» RE: otto
Posted by: josephq
» RE: otto and josephq
Posted by: peacefullaim
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Posted by: apple pie on May 22, 2007 7:11 AM
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Remember always, these recruiters are out there right now in places where teens are, trying to hook and fool them into joining to perpetuate oil company profits and US hegemony.
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Posted by: Artkansas on May 22, 2007 8:55 AM
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A free wonderland of Army themed gaming. A Virtual Army Experience. Only none of your friends will be sent home in a box.
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Posted by: TheTruthSeeker on May 22, 2007 9:19 AM
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To learn why Bush is such a lousy leader, visit the nonprofit investigative website,
King-George.biz -- the only one with hardcopy proof of White House corruption.
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» RE: What else should we expect with a liar-in-chief commanding our armed forces?
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» Sorry to disagree, Bob, but to be effective, elected leaders must set good examples or else....
Posted by: TheTruthSeeker
» RE: Sorry to disagree, Bob, but to be effective, elected leaders must set good examples or else....
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» Come on, Bob, I meant "sorry" as a polite term, not an admission of regret. Plus no matter how...
Posted by: HughScott
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Posted by: Bobsays on May 22, 2007 9:28 AM
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I trained to be a sniper and was a crack shot by the age of 15 (in the cadets). Because of the military I had the discipline to sort out my crapping school grades and get a scholarship to an ivy league university. A that point I decided not to extend and passed on my first overseas assignment. Do I regret any of it? No.
I had a blast at university, met and slept with most amazingly beautiful and bright women of my generation. And I was just a punk from the projects. But I will tell you something: not one single 'progressive', 'activist', or 'leftie' ever came around to my apartment and offered to help me study better and raise my goals in life. And when we talk about the issue of character, that is where the left falls apart. Until that changes, the military will often be the only and best option for poor kids with few other choices in life. And those are, my friends, the brutal facts of life.
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» Thanks for your reply
Posted by: gdonald
» RE: I was one of those teens, and it did me no harm
Posted by: CatDad
» RE:To CatDad: Thanks!!!
Posted by: ZPaul
» RE: I was one of those teens, and it did me no harm
Posted by: famouspipeliner
» And you got a chance to kill without going to prison for it.... WOW!
Posted by: brotherjonah
» RE: I was one of those teens, and it did me no harm
Posted by: peacefullaim
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Posted by: phindrup on May 22, 2007 9:37 AM
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I wonder what percentage will be able to readjust?
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» Bad Karma
Posted by: Bobsays
» What a joke
Posted by: gdonald
» RE: What a joke
Posted by: babs
» RE: Karma
Posted by: Artkansas
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Posted by: A Day Without Me on May 22, 2007 1:48 PM
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I myself am an Army ROTC cadet; however, as I began the process of applying for various ROTC programs, I was strongly discouraged from doing so by both of my JROTC instructors. This discouragement continued as I returned to visit throughout my first year of college, as one is permitted to disenroll after the initial year without any side-effects. In total, the amount of students in my JROTC class that chose to enlist was only three out of thirty-four - and two of these students only enrolled in their final year of high school to prepare for enlistment. I am the only student who chose to enroll in ROTC in college.
While the recruitment tactics of recruitment officers in the various services sicken me, to characterize JROTC and its instructors as wicked tools of the military machine is to betray a lack of research in this specific area. I am extremely disappointed.
I'm a far-left Democrat from New England - I hate wars, hate overzealous religious figures, can't stand attempts to limit personal freedoms, and I've thought Iraq was a gigantic mistake all the way from March 2003 - in other words, I wouldn't be shilling for a military-related organization involved with teenagers unless I felt this strongly about it.
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» RE: Mischaracterization of JROTC Programs
Posted by: CatDad
» another peace loving JROTC instructor???
Posted by: apple pie
» Rotten Apple Pie gives new meaning to the word "bitter." (Time to grow up, son, and get a life!)
Posted by: HughScott
» Excuse you? your two instructors don't make a majority
Posted by: brotherjonah
» RE: Mischaracterization of JROTC Programs
Posted by: cootie1
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Posted by: Bart Thesc on May 22, 2007 2:08 PM
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Military recruiting is a sales job. Being surprised that sales tactics are used is just as silly as being surprised to find advertising decals at a NASCAR event.
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Posted by: Mamarianne on May 22, 2007 2:31 PM
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Assemblies--like those presented by the Commando group--make militarism seem glamorous.
Most teachers who oppose the war will carefully avoid presenting their views without balance. Teachers who favor the war are often less balanced in their discussions with teens. Parents, listen to your kids. Learn what they are learning about the option of enlisting.
Withholding our sons and daughters from this war is, in my opinion, a way of guiding our nation toward change.
We are making our nation less and less safe by squandering money and lives on this unnecessary war.
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Posted by: kungfoofighterx on May 22, 2007 3:10 PM
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My family said no way, and my family members who had served said no way, and no one in my family enlisted. I listened to them and didnt enlist. The developmental status of my prefrontal cortex had nothing to do with it.
We can trade creepy marketing techniques now for the draft. Personally, I do not want to see a draft. Hopefully, peoples family's will keep young ones out of the military if they believe the teenager is making a rash decision. I would say the same for a parent joining the N.G.
The economic incentive is another issue, but it did get some of my friends through college who never would have went. Id rather see people risk their life and limb through the military then criminal activity. Its just disgusting when the war they are waging is criminal and based on lies like our conflict in Iraq.
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Posted by: wleming on May 22, 2007 3:12 PM
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» RE: "brain maturity"
Posted by: launcher
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Posted by: albrechtkrausse on May 22, 2007 3:24 PM
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Posted by: brotherjonah on May 22, 2007 4:48 PM
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(I reposted it so it will be easier to find and read)
There is a UN General Assembly Resolution which passed but the difference is, G.A. Resolutions don't get enforced.
And, of course, the United States can't veto General Assembly resolutions.
Maybe the second reason is the main factor behind the first.
Incidentally, the US ambassador to the UN who vetoed it ? Shirley TEMPLE Black,
That's right, child star, Curley Tops, yep. That Shirley Temple.
Then George W. Bitch pissed and moaned that the Iraqis recruited teenagers in violation of the General Assembly Resolution his Daddy's ambassador had vetoed in the Security Council.
Hypocrisy in action.
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» If Iraqis invaded America, I would fight the bastards and so would my 13-year-old grandson.
Posted by: TheTruthSeeker
» RE: If Iraqis invaded America, I would fight the bastards and so would my 13-year-old grandson.
Posted by: kingrat
» That was my point, kingrat.
Posted by: TheTruthSeeker
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Posted by: launcher on May 22, 2007 5:20 PM
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Come on, this part of the essay about brain development in 18-year olds is a total red herring. I don't disagree that the psychological maturity of an 18-year old - much less the 13-year old targets of the military's advertisements - is generally too low to make a major decision about one's life and career. I also recognize, as a neuroscientist, that the brain continues to develop well past the teenage years. But really, ALL brains develop throughout a lifespan - plastic changes that allow humans (and other species) to learn and adapt. The question of psychological immaturity here is one of EXPERIENCE, not ANATOMY.
Based on this essay's logic, we shouldn't hire an 18-year old boy to play in a jazz orchestra because, heck, that's too difficult for him! We shouldn't allow an 18-year old girl to play professional basketball because the "substantial changes" that the brain is undergoing would clearly make her unsuitable for that. And voting is out the door!
In my opinion, the cognitive and physical skills of a typical teenage kid are WELL ABOVE those necessary for an entry-level job in the military (be it clerking or shooting a gun). I don't like the idea of these advertisements preying on young kids - not while they should be planning for college or developing a useful skill set instead of going for a quick paycheck and signing bonus. But this argument that "science is clear" that 18-year olds don't belong in the military is simply invalid.
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» I think the authors were relating to their own experience as immature teenagers.
Posted by: TheTruthSeeker
» RE: brain development: a bit confused
Posted by: HeroesAll
» RE: brain development: a bit confused
Posted by: launcher
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Posted by: TheTruthSeeker on May 22, 2007 5:21 PM
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The high point of that educational experience came when I attended summer camp at an Army base near Mineral Wells, Texas. There I was, a 15-year-old firing mortars, anti-tank weapons and M1s. Talk about a thrill!
Following H.S. graduation in 1952, I enrolled at Texas A&M and became a proud member of the Fighting Aggie Corp of Cadets. In 1966, after nine years of active Air Force duty as a regular officer and SAC tanker pilot, with two six-month combat support tours in Southeast Asia and an Air Medal on my record, I resigned my commission and became a Vietnam War protester. But I never regretted my USAF service or seven years of high school and college ROTC.
For the authors to compare my military training with that of children in the Sudan is insulting, irrational and unpatriotic. No matter how “malleable” and “immature” their minds, American soldiers, sailors and airmen are taught to obey the Constitution, not the Koran.
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» CORRECTION: I should've written, "For the authors to EQUATE my military training with..."
Posted by: TheTruthSeeker
» an absurd display (truly)
Posted by: apple pie
» To rotton apple pie. Kiss my patriotic American ass, you subversive sonuvabitch!
Posted by: HughScott
» You can kiss my patriotic American ass, too, rotton apple pie.
Posted by: TheTruthSeeker
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Posted by: veggiegrrrl on May 22, 2007 6:09 PM
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Anyone notice the photograph accompanying the story? Oh, I get it...let's import 12 million illegal aliens and all their future children and make them fodder for the next wars over oil and water.
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» Oh, my bad, YO SOY EL ARMY
Posted by: veggiegrrrl
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Posted by: gdonald on May 22, 2007 8:48 PM
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The real issue about which we need to define is why are we the people being so divided and so manipulated by the press, the politicians of both Democratic and Republican parties to include Presidents both current and past. The military follows the orders of the Commander in Chief and the President get's his authorization to go to war from the Congress. In technical terms the United States has not been in a legal war as defined by our Constitution since the end of World War II. All the wars since Korea have been League of Nation, now the United Nations, accept the current Iraq War. It is not the military but our politicians since the end of WWII that have used our children as cannon fodder as you state and there is one more group of people to blame.
It is these spineless, cowards that walk our hallowed halls in Washington D.C. who pretend to represent us but in fact are now and have been for many decades working against we the people. It is we the people who are to blame when our children as you state are used as cannon fodder because we the people are to ignorant or lacking in intelligence to see the error of our ways. We have been electing our representatives from these two main parties and these two parties have long ago proven that they could care less about us. However, there are so many of we the people who have and still do live in a world of ignorant bliss that they still want to see and believe what doesn't exist. What doesn't exist is that Democrat's nor Republican's represent we the people any longer. They represent the corporate interests which have deep pockets and spend lots of money in lobbying for their own ends. Our children, as you state, are merely being sent off to bleed and die in foreign lands so that we the people can live our lives in the luxuries we are now accustomed to. It is our ignorance and our own greedy desires to hang on to the luxuries we all have at all costs. The cost is that our children, as you state, are being sacrificed so that corporations can continue to give us what we want while they get wealthier. If you want your children to stop dying in foreign lands then be willing to sacrifice some luxuries, be willing to change the voting habits and stop voting for Democrat's and Republican's.
Start voting for people like me who are independents and want to make real change not some artificial, meaningless piece of legislation's that we are currently seeing argued on the floors of both houses. If we the people aren't willing to change and to sacrifice then we have no right to complain and talk about how our children are cannon fodder because we are the real cause
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» RE: We deceive ourselves well
Posted by: yearsago
» Plausible suggestions
Posted by: gdonald
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Posted by: gellero on May 23, 2007 5:33 AM
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Posted by: gellero on May 23, 2007 9:27 AM
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Posted by: apple pie on May 23, 2007 9:26 AM
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Work hard. Graduate High school. But there are no jobs! Where did all the jobs go?
Corrupt dictatorships are wined and dined by American corporations to set up their labor camps, resource rich nations need 'advanced and modern extraction techniques': the indigenous people fight back.
But American laissez-faire capitalism is ready for the misguided democratic impulses in the colonies. It demands the sacrifice of children! Hummers on playgrounds/kids play shooting 50-caliber machine guns in parades/JROTC/free War-video games/dangling that carrot-on-the-stick/green-card or $$ for college all leading to US military support and intervention so our Transnationals can thrive. Yes it's insidious. Yes, propagandists and wing nuts will try to change the sum of the basic equation from PTSD and despotism to honor and patriotism.
Voila! Be Army strong! America demands sacrifice for the good and the prosperity of the ruling class. Any questions are only asked by traitors. Forward to Victory!
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» Get real, rotton apple pie. America will always need an army. How it's used is another matter.
Posted by: HughScott
» RE: Get real, rotton apple pie. America will always need an army. How it's used is another matter.
Posted by: peacefullaim
» I'm a pilot, peacefullaim. Like all aviators, I pray for the best and plan for the worst.
Posted by: HughScott
» RE: Get real, get educated (and learn how to spell!)
Posted by: apple pie
» Spell this, rotten apple pie --you're full of CRAP! By the way, "rotton" is the common...
Posted by: HughScott
» One more thing, Mr. "Educated" Apple Pie. You misspelled a word in your last comment plus ...
Posted by: HughScott
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Posted by: cootie1 on May 23, 2007 3:28 PM
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ROTC is for college students, and trains students to become officers. Regular ROTC is an officer commissioning program, the equivalent of the service academies or OCS/OTS. That sad JROTC certainly does encourage enlistment, but ROTC is an actual, official route to becoming a 2LT or Ensign upon graduation. ROTC students do not go through the exact same basic training as enlisted troops. The training during the summer is somewhat similar, but with more of a bent toward leadership, since they are training officers. The majority of the officers in today's military were commissioned through college ROTC programs.
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Posted by: BobWilson on May 25, 2007 9:08 AM
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Posted by: lindalee on Jun 4, 2007 8:03 AM
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Vets on here talk about positive experiences - good for you - my husband would probably say the same thing. He doesn't regret his decision (he volunteered and was drafter on the way over). He learned alot and it taught him alot. BUT....he knows it messed up him and he is adamant that 18 is too young to do what he was asked to do.
Recruiters would love my special ed son - but he sees the realities of war through his stepfather and he's not interested. He doesn't see this war as protecting his way of life.
I was told by two psychologists that children's brains aren't fully formed until they are 20 (in college you aren't asked to pick a major until your junior year!). Making a decision on who to vote for is alot different than putting a gun in a young man's hands and training him to make life and death decisions.
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Posted by: Obijuan on May 22, 2007 1:11 AM
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There are two ways to fix this problem. The best way would be to reduce our need for a huge standing army drawn from mostly the poor by changing our primary means of dealing with our international neighbors. However, since most "free thinking" Americans see war as an acceptable form of foreign policy, the other equitable solution is to reintroduce the draft. Then the burden of military service will be share by every citizen in some way or another, and war will again feel and smell like it should. But of course, the controlling elite in America will never let that happen again, unless they can find a way to exclude themselves and their own.
The perhaps even more scary trend is the predominant Christian undertones of the US Army.
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» RE: The PFC is important
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: The PFC is important
Posted by: CriminallySane
» RE: The PFC is important
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: The PFC is important
Posted by: CriminallySane
» RE: The PFC is important
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: The PFC is important
Posted by: zorro
» RE: The PFC is important
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: The PFC is important
Posted by: Merchant_Of_Menace
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Posted by: mmales on May 22, 2007 1:32 AM
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mmales@earthlink.net
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» HEAR F#CKING HEAR!
Posted by: Erik1968
» RE: HEAR F#CKING HEAR!
Posted by: mmales
» RE: HEAR F#CKING HEAR!
Posted by: zorro
» RE: HEAR F#CKING HEAR!
Posted by: mmales
» RE: Mike Males
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: Mike Males
Posted by: mmales
» RE: Actually, the research continues to support what the author wrote
Posted by: mmales
» RE: Actually, the research continues to support what the author wrote
Posted by: mmales
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Posted by: gdonald on May 22, 2007 5:25 AM
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If parents choose to enlist their minors in JrROTC then so be it. It's a private matter between parents and their children. The law as written today states 18 as legal age to make your own choices.
I wrote and called my Congressman and Senator before we went in to Iraq to stop the war before it started. I have been opposed to the war all the way. I say that to say this. This is an anti-war hit piece and done very poorly. If a nation is to survive then it needs a military and the fact is old men do not fight well but young men do. A nations military is not here to be kinder and gentler. The military is a killing machine and that is why it is important to have politicians who understand this and who understand that you don't send your military to fight unless you intend to win and unless the reasons for war are valid. Good politician's set the goal for what the political objective is and then lets the military planners execute the war to meet the political objective. Once that objective is met then it falls back to the hands of the ambassadors and politicians to sign the treaties. Our modern day politicians don't understand that.
I suggest that if we don't want needless wars then start electing independent candidates who aren't beholding to corporate interests and who have no ties to the main two parties.
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» Her's the link..
Posted by: SteveB
» United States VETOED UN Security Council Resolution against Child Soldiers.
Posted by: brotherjonah
» It is NOT a private matter between a parent and child
Posted by: Rune
» Rune, your assumptions are wrong
Posted by: gdonald
» RE: une, your assumptions are wrong
Posted by: zorro
» zorro
Posted by: gdonald
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Posted by: ateo on May 22, 2007 6:27 AM
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I would suggest you be thankful that the beast we have created is still pretending it cares what we the people think. In most countries (including "enlightened Europe", a golden boy of the American left - although conscription is being reduced/eliminated drastically throughout the EU) military service is simply an obligation and if your precious little son or daughter refuses to serve they go to prison.
In the U.S., as we all know, the bottom line is the market place and what it will allow. Apparently there are people in the U.S. so economically desperate or intellectually stupid (patriotism, what a joke) that they are willing to risk their lives for less than minimum wage. That's the U.S. military for you - dying for a few bucks an hour.
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» RE: We are all responsible for this government
Posted by: Doubtom
» Right, this beast was born before I was, I was using "we" as a figure of speech - N/T
Posted by: ateo
» RE: We are all responsible for this government
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» Bob, great reply
Posted by: gdonald
» RE: We are all responsible for this government
Posted by: Joshua Holland
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Posted by: otto on May 22, 2007 6:38 AM
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» RE: otto
Posted by: josephq
» RE: otto and josephq
Posted by: peacefullaim
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Posted by: apple pie on May 22, 2007 7:11 AM
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Remember always, these recruiters are out there right now in places where teens are, trying to hook and fool them into joining to perpetuate oil company profits and US hegemony.
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Posted by: Artkansas on May 22, 2007 8:55 AM
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A free wonderland of Army themed gaming. A Virtual Army Experience. Only none of your friends will be sent home in a box.
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Posted by: TheTruthSeeker on May 22, 2007 9:19 AM
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To learn why Bush is such a lousy leader, visit the nonprofit investigative website,
King-George.biz -- the only one with hardcopy proof of White House corruption.
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» RE: What else should we expect with a liar-in-chief commanding our armed forces?
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» Sorry to disagree, Bob, but to be effective, elected leaders must set good examples or else....
Posted by: TheTruthSeeker
» RE: Sorry to disagree, Bob, but to be effective, elected leaders must set good examples or else....
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» Come on, Bob, I meant "sorry" as a polite term, not an admission of regret. Plus no matter how...
Posted by: HughScott
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Posted by: Bobsays on May 22, 2007 9:28 AM
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I trained to be a sniper and was a crack shot by the age of 15 (in the cadets). Because of the military I had the discipline to sort out my crapping school grades and get a scholarship to an ivy league university. A that point I decided not to extend and passed on my first overseas assignment. Do I regret any of it? No.
I had a blast at university, met and slept with most amazingly beautiful and bright women of my generation. And I was just a punk from the projects. But I will tell you something: not one single 'progressive', 'activist', or 'leftie' ever came around to my apartment and offered to help me study better and raise my goals in life. And when we talk about the issue of character, that is where the left falls apart. Until that changes, the military will often be the only and best option for poor kids with few other choices in life. And those are, my friends, the brutal facts of life.
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» Thanks for your reply
Posted by: gdonald
» RE: I was one of those teens, and it did me no harm
Posted by: CatDad
» RE:To CatDad: Thanks!!!
Posted by: ZPaul
» RE: I was one of those teens, and it did me no harm
Posted by: famouspipeliner
» And you got a chance to kill without going to prison for it.... WOW!
Posted by: brotherjonah
» RE: I was one of those teens, and it did me no harm
Posted by: peacefullaim
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Posted by: phindrup on May 22, 2007 9:37 AM
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I wonder what percentage will be able to readjust?
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» Bad Karma
Posted by: Bobsays
» What a joke
Posted by: gdonald
» RE: What a joke
Posted by: babs
» RE: Karma
Posted by: Artkansas
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Posted by: A Day Without Me on May 22, 2007 1:48 PM
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I myself am an Army ROTC cadet; however, as I began the process of applying for various ROTC programs, I was strongly discouraged from doing so by both of my JROTC instructors. This discouragement continued as I returned to visit throughout my first year of college, as one is permitted to disenroll after the initial year without any side-effects. In total, the amount of students in my JROTC class that chose to enlist was only three out of thirty-four - and two of these students only enrolled in their final year of high school to prepare for enlistment. I am the only student who chose to enroll in ROTC in college.
While the recruitment tactics of recruitment officers in the various services sicken me, to characterize JROTC and its instructors as wicked tools of the military machine is to betray a lack of research in this specific area. I am extremely disappointed.
I'm a far-left Democrat from New England - I hate wars, hate overzealous religious figures, can't stand attempts to limit personal freedoms, and I've thought Iraq was a gigantic mistake all the way from March 2003 - in other words, I wouldn't be shilling for a military-related organization involved with teenagers unless I felt this strongly about it.
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» RE: Mischaracterization of JROTC Programs
Posted by: CatDad
» another peace loving JROTC instructor???
Posted by: apple pie
» Rotten Apple Pie gives new meaning to the word "bitter." (Time to grow up, son, and get a life!)
Posted by: HughScott
» Excuse you? your two instructors don't make a majority
Posted by: brotherjonah
» RE: Mischaracterization of JROTC Programs
Posted by: cootie1
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Posted by: Bart Thesc on May 22, 2007 2:08 PM
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Military recruiting is a sales job. Being surprised that sales tactics are used is just as silly as being surprised to find advertising decals at a NASCAR event.
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Posted by: Mamarianne on May 22, 2007 2:31 PM
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Assemblies--like those presented by the Commando group--make militarism seem glamorous.
Most teachers who oppose the war will carefully avoid presenting their views without balance. Teachers who favor the war are often less balanced in their discussions with teens. Parents, listen to your kids. Learn what they are learning about the option of enlisting.
Withholding our sons and daughters from this war is, in my opinion, a way of guiding our nation toward change.
We are making our nation less and less safe by squandering money and lives on this unnecessary war.
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Posted by: kungfoofighterx on May 22, 2007 3:10 PM
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My family said no way, and my family members who had served said no way, and no one in my family enlisted. I listened to them and didnt enlist. The developmental status of my prefrontal cortex had nothing to do with it.
We can trade creepy marketing techniques now for the draft. Personally, I do not want to see a draft. Hopefully, peoples family's will keep young ones out of the military if they believe the teenager is making a rash decision. I would say the same for a parent joining the N.G.
The economic incentive is another issue, but it did get some of my friends through college who never would have went. Id rather see people risk their life and limb through the military then criminal activity. Its just disgusting when the war they are waging is criminal and based on lies like our conflict in Iraq.
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Posted by: wleming on May 22, 2007 3:12 PM
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» RE: "brain maturity"
Posted by: launcher
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Posted by: albrechtkrausse on May 22, 2007 3:24 PM
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Posted by: brotherjonah on May 22, 2007 4:48 PM
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(I reposted it so it will be easier to find and read)
There is a UN General Assembly Resolution which passed but the difference is, G.A. Resolutions don't get enforced.
And, of course, the United States can't veto General Assembly resolutions.
Maybe the second reason is the main factor behind the first.
Incidentally, the US ambassador to the UN who vetoed it ? Shirley TEMPLE Black,
That's right, child star, Curley Tops, yep. That Shirley Temple.
Then George W. Bitch pissed and moaned that the Iraqis recruited teenagers in violation of the General Assembly Resolution his Daddy's ambassador had vetoed in the Security Council.
Hypocrisy in action.
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» If Iraqis invaded America, I would fight the bastards and so would my 13-year-old grandson.
Posted by: TheTruthSeeker
» RE: If Iraqis invaded America, I would fight the bastards and so would my 13-year-old grandson.
Posted by: kingrat
» That was my point, kingrat.
Posted by: TheTruthSeeker
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Posted by: launcher on May 22, 2007 5:20 PM
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Come on, this part of the essay about brain development in 18-year olds is a total red herring. I don't disagree that the psychological maturity of an 18-year old - much less the 13-year old targets of the military's advertisements - is generally too low to make a major decision about one's life and career. I also recognize, as a neuroscientist, that the brain continues to develop well past the teenage years. But really, ALL brains develop throughout a lifespan - plastic changes that allow humans (and other species) to learn and adapt. The question of psychological immaturity here is one of EXPERIENCE, not ANATOMY.
Based on this essay's logic, we shouldn't hire an 18-year old boy to play in a jazz orchestra because, heck, that's too difficult for him! We shouldn't allow an 18-year old girl to play professional basketball because the "substantial changes" that the brain is undergoing would clearly make her unsuitable for that. And voting is out the door!
In my opinion, the cognitive and physical skills of a typical teenage kid are WELL ABOVE those necessary for an entry-level job in the military (be it clerking or shooting a gun). I don't like the idea of these advertisements preying on young kids - not while they should be planning for college or developing a useful skill set instead of going for a quick paycheck and signing bonus. But this argument that "science is clear" that 18-year olds don't belong in the military is simply invalid.
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» I think the authors were relating to their own experience as immature teenagers.
Posted by: TheTruthSeeker
» RE: brain development: a bit confused
Posted by: HeroesAll
» RE: brain development: a bit confused
Posted by: launcher
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Posted by: TheTruthSeeker on May 22, 2007 5:21 PM
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The high point of that educational experience came when I attended summer camp at an Army base near Mineral Wells, Texas. There I was, a 15-year-old firing mortars, anti-tank weapons and M1s. Talk about a thrill!
Following H.S. graduation in 1952, I enrolled at Texas A&M and became a proud member of the Fighting Aggie Corp of Cadets. In 1966, after nine years of active Air Force duty as a regular officer and SAC tanker pilot, with two six-month combat support tours in Southeast Asia and an Air Medal on my record, I resigned my commission and became a Vietnam War protester. But I never regretted my USAF service or seven years of high school and college ROTC.
For the authors to compare my military training with that of children in the Sudan is insulting, irrational and unpatriotic. No matter how “malleable” and “immature” their minds, American soldiers, sailors and airmen are taught to obey the Constitution, not the Koran.
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» CORRECTION: I should've written, "For the authors to EQUATE my military training with..."
Posted by: TheTruthSeeker
» an absurd display (truly)
Posted by: apple pie
» To rotton apple pie. Kiss my patriotic American ass, you subversive sonuvabitch!
Posted by: HughScott
» You can kiss my patriotic American ass, too, rotton apple pie.
Posted by: TheTruthSeeker
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Posted by: veggiegrrrl on May 22, 2007 6:09 PM
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Anyone notice the photograph accompanying the story? Oh, I get it...let's import 12 million illegal aliens and all their future children and make them fodder for the next wars over oil and water.
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» Oh, my bad, YO SOY EL ARMY
Posted by: veggiegrrrl
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Posted by: gdonald on May 22, 2007 8:48 PM
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The real issue about which we need to define is why are we the people being so divided and so manipulated by the press, the politicians of both Democratic and Republican parties to include Presidents both current and past. The military follows the orders of the Commander in Chief and the President get's his authorization to go to war from the Congress. In technical terms the United States has not been in a legal war as defined by our Constitution since the end of World War II. All the wars since Korea have been League of Nation, now the United Nations, accept the current Iraq War. It is not the military but our politicians since the end of WWII that have used our children as cannon fodder as you state and there is one more group of people to blame.
It is these spineless, cowards that walk our hallowed halls in Washington D.C. who pretend to represent us but in fact are now and have been for many decades working against we the people. It is we the people who are to blame when our children as you state are used as cannon fodder because we the people are to ignorant or lacking in intelligence to see the error of our ways. We have been electing our representatives from these two main parties and these two parties have long ago proven that they could care less about us. However, there are so many of we the people who have and still do live in a world of ignorant bliss that they still want to see and believe what doesn't exist. What doesn't exist is that Democrat's nor Republican's represent we the people any longer. They represent the corporate interests which have deep pockets and spend lots of money in lobbying for their own ends. Our children, as you state, are merely being sent off to bleed and die in foreign lands so that we the people can live our lives in the luxuries we are now accustomed to. It is our ignorance and our own greedy desires to hang on to the luxuries we all have at all costs. The cost is that our children, as you state, are being sacrificed so that corporations can continue to give us what we want while they get wealthier. If you want your children to stop dying in foreign lands then be willing to sacrifice some luxuries, be willing to change the voting habits and stop voting for Democrat's and Republican's.
Start voting for people like me who are independents and want to make real change not some artificial, meaningless piece of legislation's that we are currently seeing argued on the floors of both houses. If we the people aren't willing to change and to sacrifice then we have no right to complain and talk about how our children are cannon fodder because we are the real cause
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» RE: We deceive ourselves well
Posted by: yearsago
» Plausible suggestions
Posted by: gdonald
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Posted by: gellero on May 23, 2007 5:33 AM
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Posted by: gellero on May 23, 2007 9:27 AM
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Posted by: apple pie on May 23, 2007 9:26 AM
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Work hard. Graduate High school. But there are no jobs! Where did all the jobs go?
Corrupt dictatorships are wined and dined by American corporations to set up their labor camps, resource rich nations need 'advanced and modern extraction techniques': the indigenous people fight back.
But American laissez-faire capitalism is ready for the misguided democratic impulses in the colonies. It demands the sacrifice of children! Hummers on playgrounds/kids play shooting 50-caliber machine guns in parades/JROTC/free War-video games/dangling that carrot-on-the-stick/green-card or $$ for college all leading to US military support and intervention so our Transnationals can thrive. Yes it's insidious. Yes, propagandists and wing nuts will try to change the sum of the basic equation from PTSD and despotism to honor and patriotism.
Voila! Be Army strong! America demands sacrifice for the good and the prosperity of the ruling class. Any questions are only asked by traitors. Forward to Victory!
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» Get real, rotton apple pie. America will always need an army. How it's used is another matter.
Posted by: HughScott
» RE: Get real, rotton apple pie. America will always need an army. How it's used is another matter.
Posted by: peacefullaim
» I'm a pilot, peacefullaim. Like all aviators, I pray for the best and plan for the worst.
Posted by: HughScott
» RE: Get real, get educated (and learn how to spell!)
Posted by: apple pie
» Spell this, rotten apple pie --you're full of CRAP! By the way, "rotton" is the common...
Posted by: HughScott
» One more thing, Mr. "Educated" Apple Pie. You misspelled a word in your last comment plus ...
Posted by: HughScott
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Posted by: cootie1 on May 23, 2007 3:28 PM
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ROTC is for college students, and trains students to become officers. Regular ROTC is an officer commissioning program, the equivalent of the service academies or OCS/OTS. That sad JROTC certainly does encourage enlistment, but ROTC is an actual, official route to becoming a 2LT or Ensign upon graduation. ROTC students do not go through the exact same basic training as enlisted troops. The training during the summer is somewhat similar, but with more of a bent toward leadership, since they are training officers. The majority of the officers in today's military were commissioned through college ROTC programs.
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Posted by: BobWilson on May 25, 2007 9:08 AM
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Posted by: lindalee on Jun 4, 2007 8:03 AM
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Vets on here talk about positive experiences - good for you - my husband would probably say the same thing. He doesn't regret his decision (he volunteered and was drafter on the way over). He learned alot and it taught him alot. BUT....he knows it messed up him and he is adamant that 18 is too young to do what he was asked to do.
Recruiters would love my special ed son - but he sees the realities of war through his stepfather and he's not interested. He doesn't see this war as protecting his way of life.
I was told by two psychologists that children's brains aren't fully formed until they are 20 (in college you aren't asked to pick a major until your junior year!). Making a decision on who to vote for is alot different than putting a gun in a young man's hands and training him to make life and death decisions.
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