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What Makes an Atheist Get out of Bed in the Morning?

By Daniel Lazare, The Nation. Posted May 15, 2007.


In their rush to throw out God, atheist writers appear to have given little thought to what should replace the deity.

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Imagine it's Paris in the spring of 1789 and you have just announced that you are an inveterate foe of tyrants and kings. Obviously, your message is not going to fall on deaf ears. But now that you've made it clear what you're against, what are you for? Do you favor an aristocratic constitution in which power devolves to the provincial nobility? Would you prefer a British-style constitutional monarchy? Or do you believe in all power to the sans-culottes? How you answer will shape both your analysis of the situation and the political tactics you employ in changing it. It may also determine whether you wind up on the chopping block in the next half-decade or so.

This is the problem, more or less, confronting today's reinvigorated atheist movement. For a long time, religion had been doing quite nicely as a kind of minor entertainment. Christmas and Easter were quite unthinkable without it, not to mention Hanukkah and Passover. But then certain enthusiasts took things too far by crashing airliners into office towers in the name of Allah, launching a global crusade to rid the world of evil and declaring the jury still out on Darwinian evolution. As a consequence, religion now looks nearly as bad as royalism did in the late eighteenth century. But while united in their resolve to throw the bum out -- God, that is -- the antireligious forces appear to have given little thought to what to replace Him with should He go. They may not face the guillotine as a consequence. But they could end up making even bigger fools of themselves than the theologians they criticize.

Richard Dawkins is a case in point. It is no surprise that, along with Sam Harris, author of The End of Faith and Letter to a Christian Nation, and Daniel Dennett, author of Breaking the Spell: Religion As a Natural Phenomenon, he has emerged at the head of a growing intellectual movement aimed at relegating religion to the proverbial scrapheap of history (which by this point must be filled to overflowing). He's bright, obviously, a lively writer -- his 1978 book The Selfish Gene is regarded as a pop science classic -- and as an evolutionary biologist, he's particularly well equipped to defend Darwin against neofundamentalist hordes for whom he is the Antichrist. But Dawkins is something else as well: fiercely combative. Other scientists have tried to calm things down by making nice-nice noises concerning the supposedly complementary nature of the two pursuits. Einstein famously said that "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind," while the late paleontologist Stephen J. Gould once characterized the two fields as "non-overlapping magisteria" that address different questions and have no reason to get in each other's way. But Dawkins, to his great credit, is having none of it. Although he does not quite come out and say so, he seems to have the good sense to realize that no two fields are ever truly separate but that, in a unified body of human knowledge, or episteme, all overlap. Conflict is inevitable when different fields employ different principles and say different things, which is why an evolutionary biologist can't simply ignore it when some blow-dried TV evangelist declares that God created the world in six days, and why he'll become positively unhinged should the same televangelist begin pressuring textbook publishers to adopt his views.

Consequently, he's got to go on the warpath -- not only against the fundamentalists but against the sloppy logic and wishful thinking on which they batten. This is Dawkins's forte, and it is what makes The God Delusion such an entertaining read. Not one for politeness, he is the sort of fierce logic-chopper who chuckles nastily when coming across what he regards as some particularly choice bit of inanity. Discussing Arius of Alexandria, for example, infamous in certain fourth-century theological circles for maintaining that God and Jesus were not "consubstantial," i.e., not composed of the same substance or essence, you can almost hear him snicker: "What on earth could that possibly mean, you are probably asking? Substance? What 'substance'? What exactly do you mean by 'essence'? 'Very little' seems the only reasonable reply." Quoting a third-century theologian known as St. Gregory the Miracle Worker on the mystery of the Holy Trinity -- "There is therefore nothing created, nothing subject to another in the Trinity: nor is there anything that has been added as though it once had not existed, but had entered afterwards: therefore the Father has never been without the Son" -- he can't help sneering that "whatever miracles may have earned St. Gregory his nickname, they were not miracles of honest lucidity." Noting that the Catholic Church divides angels into nine categories, or orders -- seraphim, cherubim, thrones, dominions, virtues, powers, principalities, archangels and ordinary members of the angelic rank-and-file -- he lets slip that "what impresses me about Catholic mythology is partly its tasteless kitsch but mostly the airy nonchalance with which these people make up the details as they go along."

This is not entirely fair. The Catholic Church does not just make such things up but has thought long and hard about angelic orders and other matters of equal importance. But Dawkins's outrage at the persistence of medieval ideas in the modern era is warranted. In fact, it's overdue. Also warranted is the sheer pleasure he takes in recounting a double-blind experiment funded by a whopping-rich outfit known as the Templeton Foundation to test the efficacy of prayer. Headed by a Boston cardiologist, Dawkins informs us, the study involved 1,802 patients in six hospitals who had just undergone coronary bypass surgery. Researchers divided the subjects into three groups: those who were not informed that church congregations as far away as Missouri were praying for their speedy recovery, those who were informed and a control group consisting of patients for whom no prayers were said and who were unaware that an experiment was under way. Church members were provided with each patient's first name and last initial and, in the interest of standardization, were asked to pray "for a successful surgery with a quick, healthy recovery and no complications" in just those words.


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Daniel Lazare is the author of, most recently, The Velvet Coup: The Constitution, the Supreme Court, and the Decline of American Democracy (Verso). He is currently at work on a book about the politics of Christianity, Judaism and Islam for Pantheon.

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The connection...
Posted by: Monitor523 on May 15, 2007 12:45 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...between the premise and the conclusion. What is it? Lazare begins this article by implying that it will address the problem of how atheists reject God, but don't suggest what to replace Him with. The conclusion also seems to suggest that this is what the essay was about - the idea that atheists fail to embrace his favorite point of view of the meaning of life, and hence are in some sort of error.

As for the opening - if God is, as Victor Stenger's recent book tries to argue, a "failed hypothesis", a scientific attitude is to discard that hypothesis, whether a convenient alternative is to hand or not. By the time we reach the conclusion, it seems that the argument isn't so much about empirical reality, as about how humans find meaning. If feeling good about life and oneself is more important than empirical reality, this argument is fine - as far as it goes. The argument, then, seems to be not so much with atheism as with the whole "reality-based community" who think that facts should take priority over feelings.

Not to deny the importance of finding meaning in life - but presumably the meaning must be the meaning OF something. Before meaning can be found in any recognizable way, first one has to find out the characteristics of the reality OF WHICH it's supposed to be the meaning. First one finds out about the world, THEN one finds or creates meaning in it - logically, if not chronologically, since of course both processes continue all the time, undergoing constant revision.

On the matter of meaning, Lazare makes a reasonable suggestion at how to find meaning without God - but seems to imply that his selected atheists fail precisely because they failed to arrive at this conclusion. Apparently, as with religion in general - not to mention the Stalinism that gets a nod in there in relation to Christopher Hitchens - the process and methodology is less important than arriving at the approved conclusion.

That certainly fits the structure of the essay's argument, since the filler matter between the opening and the conclusion doesn't seem to have any coherent relationship to either of them. Instead, it's a laundry list of problems of historical perspective and contextual understanding of some selected atheist bestsellers of recent years. Apparently by "atheists", Lazare means Dawkins, Hitchens, and a handful of others, and by the failings of atheism as a philosophy, he means the technical or interpretive problems with their books. What should have been an argument connecting the intro with the conclusion, and supporting the claims they make, the five pages of padding that supposedly join them are nothing but an overly self-important book review drawing conclusions from nowhere.

Similes leap to mind, but modesty forbids.

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» RE: The connection... Posted by: The Populist
Meaning without God?
Posted by: Logic's Edge on May 15, 2007 12:46 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's an interesting question.

When I'm feeling at odds with humanity and its failings, I remind myself that humanity may well be the only way the Universe currently has of knowing itself.

And who knows what future humanity has and what it might discover? It's easy to decry all our imperfections now, but what is won't necessarily last, and might be replaced by something superior.

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» RE: Meaning without God? Posted by: jroth420
Why do I need to replace God? There wasn't a god in the first place.
Posted by: Tatarize on May 15, 2007 1:15 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If something is false, it is to be disregarded. Period. I don't need to make a new invisible guy. You can have the rest of the universe. Billions of light-years filled with billions of galaxies and trillion trillions of stars, if that is still not enough for you, and you insist on begging the invisible for more... then there simply is no helping you.

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» What is he asking us to replace? Posted by: Monitor523
» RE: What is he asking us to replace? Posted by: Logic's Edge
» Not knowing everything Posted by: themotie
» RE: Not knowing everything Posted by: Swithun Mason
» RE: Not knowing everything Posted by: parmenicleitus
» RE: Not knowing everything Posted by: Swithun Mason
» RE: Not knowing everything Posted by: parmenicleitus
» RE: Not knowing everything Posted by: Swithun Mason
» Truly Irrelevant Posted by: bornxeyed
Here We Go
Posted by: NoPCZone on May 15, 2007 1:40 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I know this is going to get me b-slapped all over this post, but I personally see atheism as a form of religion (hear me out). Although an atheist does not worship any god or gods, they have made a definite choice or decision regarding the whole concept. In some ways, that puts them closer to the 'theists' than agnostics and other doubters.

When a person makes a clear cut decision to be an atheist as opposed to a doubter or agnostic, they are essentially making the same type of choice that a person who chooses to follow a particular religion does. That very decision is going to inform their life, what they value and how they conduct themselves. None of the above is still a choice at heart.

I'm not an atheist, but would imagine that the motivations are about the same as anyone else. Most of the atheists I have met and known are among the most moral people I know. I attribute this to the fact that most atheists have carefully searched and compared different faiths and philosophies and know exactly why they have chosen to be an atheist.

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» RE: Here We Go Posted by: themotie
» RE: Here We Go Posted by: Xynyx
» RE: Here We Go Posted by: themotie
» RE: Here We Go Posted by: NoPCZone
» RE: Here We Go Posted by: wwittman
» RE: Here We Go Posted by: Monitor523
» Splitting hairs Posted by: themotie
» RE: Splitting hairs Posted by: Xynyx
» RE: Splitting hairs Posted by: themotie
» RE: Splitting hairs Posted by: NoPCZone
» RE: Splitting hairs Posted by: casual
» RE: Splitting hairs Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: Here We Go Posted by: Benjaminsjw
» RE: Here We Go Posted by: NoPCZone
» RE: Here We Go Posted by: Benjaminsjw
» RE: Here We Go Posted by: jroth420
» Here We Go AGAIN Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: Here We Go Posted by: JCrowe
» RE: Here We Go Posted by: leafsong1
» RE: Here We Go Posted by: Tatarize
» RE: Here We Go Posted by: deeannef
» Agnostic = Pussy Atheist Posted by: rjgwood
» RE: Agnostic = Pussy Atheist Posted by: Tatarize
» RE: Agnostic = Pussy Atheist Posted by: rjgwood
» RE: Here We Go Posted by: Finaddict
» RE: Here We Go Posted by: chomsky
» RE: Here We Go Posted by: BobWilson
» It's even simpler than that! Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: Here We Go Posted by: bornxeyed
what to "replace" religion with???
Posted by: wwittman on May 15, 2007 2:15 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How about rationality?

that so tough?

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» Truism Posted by: themotie
» RE: what to "replace" religion with??? Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com
» RE: what to "replace" religion with??? Posted by: parmenicleitus
» RE: what to "replace" religion with??? Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com
» RE: what to "replace" religion with??? Posted by: parmenicleitus
» RE: what to "replace" religion with??? Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com
» RE: what to "replace" religion with??? Posted by: parmenicleitus
» RE: what to "replace" religion with??? Posted by: parmenicleitus
» RE: what to "replace" religion with??? Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com
» RE: what to "replace" religion with??? Posted by: parmenicleitus
» RE: what to "replace" religion with??? Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com
» RE: what to "replace" religion with??? Posted by: parmenicleitus
» RE: what to "replace" religion with??? Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com
» RE: what to "replace" religion with??? Posted by: parmenicleitus
» RE: Determinism Posted by: parmenicleitus
» RE: what to "replace" religion with??? Posted by: parmenicleitus
» RE: what to "replace" religion with??? Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com
» RE: what to "replace" religion with??? Posted by: parmenicleitus
» RE: what to "replace" religion with??? Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com
» RE: what to "replace" religion with??? Posted by: parmenicleitus
» RE: what to "replace" religion with??? Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com
» RE: what to "replace" religion with??? Posted by: parmenicleitus
Zeal of the de-converted
Posted by: abstractedaway on May 15, 2007 2:28 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As someone raised with so much religious fervor that I was said to be headed for the clergy who later converted to atheism, I have the following observations:

Atheists don't have churches, really, or the equivalent thereof. Typically they are busy living their lives. If the author wishes to see a lack of positives because of a lack of formal institutions, that's his choice, but I think he's looking in the wrong places. In my life as an atheist I have taken the time that would have been spent warming a pew or being guilt-tripped into my prayer closet to do more, including charitable work. "Prayer accomplishes nothing" is a negative that makes room for a positive. I sometimes join with theist organizations for causes like peace protests, and don't think I'm unique in doing so. In a world-view where there is no god, community is important indeed.

Engel's sympathy for Paul should not be such a shock. It is completely reasonable to appreciate people for where they come from, and the understanding they work with. Atheism leaves you free to learn whatever you can from any religion, after you've seen the parables and stories for what they are.

The real difference between religion and atheism is the means by which an atheist will judge that they know something. That was the key to my deconversion experience: I questioned how I knew what I thought I knew, and how I was different from any other fundementalist of any faith. It became important to me that words not have double-standards: when people say they have faith in other people, it usually has to deal with direct observation rather than the blind or handed-down experience we associate with religion. Each individual atheist has their own priorities, but the overlap is there. The rigor of the scientific method may not be directly applicable, but it is very instructive in how we gauge our intellectual honesty by actively testing it.

Don't begrudge Dawkins his playful sneering (sic). Sometimes in order to find something you believe in from actual experience, you have to be rid of illusions, and you cannot skip that.

The positives of atheism are often implicit rather than explicit, which the article would have done better to recognize earlier. It bears stating, though: you're right in the middle of it. You are wonderfully, terribly free along with your fellows in the universe. Enjoy it.

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» RE: Zeal of the de-converted Posted by: Centavo
The War of Science and Religion is so...19th Century.
Posted by: Sojourner on May 15, 2007 3:29 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Thanks for the book reviews. I doubt that I would have paid much attention otherwise.

I understand the critique of religion to be most adequate when it refutes the claim that one is less than human unless one uses the word, God. Even the New Testament tells us to keep our religion in the closet. That is, it is no one else’s business.

I continue to participate in organized religion because no where else do I find advocacy of the need for people to give—of themselves, of their resources—to each other.

If you tell me that there are lots of places other than institutional religion that promote generosity, I will agree. And then I will go into my closet and thank my God for the divine gratitude, by whatever name, that works in mysterious ways.

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» Hey guys, go for it! Posted by: Sojourner
» A Reposting Posted by: igoeja
» "The believer" in what? Posted by: Sojourner
» RE: "The believer" in what? Posted by: bornxeyed
It's all over but the shouting
Posted by: hquain on May 15, 2007 4:17 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The whole anti-atheism thing is bizarrely culture-bound. Yes, my fellow Americans, there are whole countries out there where people by-and-large never think about God with a capital G. Old Europe is filled with them -- official state religions reduced the idea to a laughingstock long ago. There hasn't been a believer on the British side of my family for a hundred years (and then we lose track). Others do fine with some mix of indifference and low-level 'cultural practices'. Despite their failure to 'replace' religious belief with something equally grand, these poor unsanctified unfortunates manage to get on with lives pretty much as happily as we do. In the end, it's all about signaling your adherence to prevailing norms. This can be done, it seems, without the elaborate pretenses and intellectual degradation that the pro-theists want to force on us.

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» RE: It's all over but the shouting Posted by: MartianBachelor
Lady of the Lake
Posted by: goldie on May 15, 2007 4:28 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
My personal reaction to the headline of replacing a lack of belief in a god is. "I don't NEED any replacment at all!" How arrogant to think that I'd have such a need. Rather typical of fundamentalists around here.

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» RE: Lady of the Lake Posted by: Xynyx
What replaces Santa Claus?
Posted by: richieb on May 15, 2007 4:48 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The article was way too long and I got lost somewhere on the second page. But why do we need to replace silly belief with something else? Does the author still believe that Santa Claus comes and brings presents every winter solstice? If not, what is the replacement belief?

There was a quote at the start of Dawinks' book "To be alive is miracle enough". That's what I like to think when I get up every morning!

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This is too complicated
Posted by: mongo164 on May 15, 2007 5:03 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There is an intellectual group that writes about and discusses issues to such a depth only about 4 people on earth can follow it all. The question posed is legitimate but the anguish you have to suffer wading through all this crap just sucks.

Aethiests get up in the morning to live their lives, not to think or say "What does Mr Magic want me to do today?" You don't have to write 5000 words of literary references to discuss the issue. Who cares what Dawkins said or wrote on page 300 in
1964? What has that to do with the question? Why don't you just ask some aethiests why they get up in the morning? Frankly, it seems to me the only value of this article is to reward the writer with self satisfaction about how well read and intellectually balanced he is and "Look at me, I'm a blogger on Alternet". And, to give me the chance to take a shot at him and vent my longstanding disdain for intellectual claptrap.

Why not just talk straight? Why would I believe in an entity that could create this unbelievably complex and diverse world and universe that we exist in and yet still needs us poor shmucks on this tiny little world to kiss his ass everyday? With all that power and intelligence is that all it has to do with it's time?l That god "must be some kind of idiotic jerk".

And I'd like to see if anyone knows where that quote comes from.

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When I Became an Atheist
Posted by: igoeja on May 15, 2007 5:10 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]

Who needs a god?

Like Einstein, I became an atheist at 12, and althoughh much of my criticism was directed at the Catholic Church, any major religion would have worked. My biggest criticsims focused on the hypocrisy and irrationality of belief systems, e.g., moral absolutism, "my god is the only god", the suppression of science, the practice of celibacy, the promotion of poverty, etc. My belief system, as some people assume it, trusts science - I am not faith-oriented and am anti-dogmatic - and my 'philosophy' is commonly termed secular humanism. As a belief system, Wikipedia defines it as follows:

Secular humanism is a humanist philosophy that upholds reason, ethics, and justice, and specifically rejects the supernatural and the spiritual as warrants of moral reflection and decision-making. Like other types of humanism, secular humanism is a life stance or a praxis focusing on the way human beings can lead good and happy lives (eupraxsophy).


As for myself, my concern is for people, the peope of the world, and the world in general; I care that people can live humane, pleasurable, and self-directed lives, free from authoritarian control. I possess a strong social conscience and am considered by others to be a ethical and moral person, albeit not moralistic. I think rationally about cause and effect.

Looking at the world, and knowing religion's relationahip to ignorance and misery, pity the believer.

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» RE: When I Became an Atheist Posted by: mirimac
Tip-toeing through the cosmological tulips
Posted by: Moonray on May 15, 2007 5:18 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As folks say down South: My, you DO go on!

First you start off blasting Dawkins and other sensible folks who have shed long overdue light on this religion nonsense -- even the despicable Christopher Hitchens, who has nothing else going for him.

Then, after meandering aimlessly through numerous pretentious cultural references, you wind up defending religion on the grounds that it makes us feel better about ourselves. Good God, if you will pardon the expression.

It's increasingly obvious that religious belief is a mental aberration, a common neurosis, and should be treated as such. True, this Father Figure Projection Syndrome (FFPS) has been around for millennia, but that doesn't mean we have to continue to live (and die) with it. Religion should be removed from the center of our culture to its fringes, and children should be protected from its influence. If you disagree, I submit the Mideast as Exhibit A. More car bombs, anyone? Take your pick -- we get rid of religion or eventually it will get rid of all of us.

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» Exhibit B: Midwest, USA Posted by: eddie torres
Unweaving The Rainbow
Posted by: hepkats on May 15, 2007 5:26 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's important to point out while the author is chastising Richard Dawkins that Dawkins wrote a book called Unweaving The Rainbow that deals exclusively with the topic of finding wonder and inspiration in the universe without resorting to the supernatural.

The point of atheism is not replacing an unsupported belief system with another belief system. Rather it is acknowledging that there is ino evidence for the existence of the supernatural. Beyond that basic premise, though, I find it quite easy to look at the amazing universe around me and be awed by its beauty and complexity.

Plus, I love my wife and kids. I'm active in my community. I really dig music. I like reading good books. All these are down-to-earth reasons to get out of bed without God.

Thanks.

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An Analogy
Posted by: ProgressiveManiac on May 15, 2007 5:44 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I recall when I was quite young, probably about three or four years of age, my big sister (one year older) asked me whether I believed in Santa Claus. I had not previously considered this question, but began to think through the immense implications. If there were no Santa would there be presents? What would be the point of Christmas? Would there be Christmas at all?

These are pretty frightening thoughts for a three-year-old who was aware that Christmas was the most exciting event of the year. Nevertheless, I eventually out-grew any belief in Santa and found to my pleasant surprise that there were indeed still Christmas presents and Christmas decorations and Christmas parties. Not much really changed except that in some important way I felt I had matured.

Likewise if you were to outgrow your belief in God, you would find that there would still be as much beauty in the world, you would still wonder as much at nature and you would experience as profound a sense of the importance on morality as ever before. You would simply grow to understand that these are human experiences and not something imposed on humans by a God. Your appreciation of life would not decrease in any way, you would simply understand it in a different way.

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» RE: An Analogy Posted by: themotie
» RE: An Analogy Posted by: JoAnne
NOT THIS ARTICLE
Posted by: chalet on May 15, 2007 5:45 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If I thought I had to read this article I would never get out of bed. A soporific if I ever saw one. And what is the point, anyhow? To believe in superstition instead of living your life?

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I'm an atheist...
Posted by: sausage on May 15, 2007 5:48 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...And what gets me out of bed in the morning is the cat.

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» RE: I'm an atheist... Posted by: Jimsabis
» I am also Posted by: Veronique
» RE: I'm an atheist... Posted by: Mamarianne
» RE: I'm an atheist... Posted by: HeroesAll
I can't believe I read the whole thing.
Posted by: edraven on May 15, 2007 5:50 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Your very long post about atheists is a good example of why I hate the term Atheist.

You spend the entire time talking about non-believers from the perspective that they have something missing in their lives. Well, I can't have something missing that is not there.

The word atheist implies that there is a God, and I don't believe in it. That's nonsense.

Try rewriting you article (that should be punishment enough) from the perspective that god is a made up concept and affects only those who are delusional.

"A man should look for what is, and not what he thinks should be." A quote from Einstein who is so often misquoted by church people.

Ed Graham

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» You got it! Posted by: Dan Metcalf
alternet reader Dan
Posted by: alternet reader Dan on May 15, 2007 5:54 AM   
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The claim that atheists haven't thought about what should replace the "God" and compulsion of religion is absurd and false. To take just one example, Charles Bradlaugh (1833-91), founder of the National Secular Society which is seeing so much current growth in England, edited a paper called The National Reformer for over 30 years, In it, he and others wrote repeatedly about the moral, civic, and even personal hygiene and family sanitary responsibilities of people who had freed themselves from the strictures of religion. Bradlaugh spent decades lecturing throughout Great Britain, mostly to working class audiences of secularists and freethinkers. These people were for the most part less interested in the philosophical implications of building a complete, overarching "theology" of atheism, as intellectuals then and now seem obsessed with doing. They were trying to improve their lives, their working conditions, their access to the political process (Bradlaugh was also a campaigner for voting rights in 1867, leading Hyde Park demonstrations that pressured the British government into expanding the franchise to the working classes). The church was an instrument of conservative political forces, and a source of reactionary ideology that was in the way of human progress. Then as now.

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Replacing What with What?!
Posted by: Windwhistler on May 15, 2007 5:58 AM   
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Its absurd that I should somehow worry about replacing a concept that has never been clearly defined (God, god etc.) with another equally non-defined concept (?). I haven't got time to worry about such garbage. I've too busy experiencing and appreciating life as I know it and live it.

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What drives a two year old to get up every morning?
Posted by: lb on May 15, 2007 6:05 AM   
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And don't tell me it is their belief in God.

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» They're on springs. (NM) Posted by: HeroesAll
Atheism intensifies meaning
Posted by: mandiwrite on May 15, 2007 6:05 AM   
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I have recently had to deal with the prolonged illness and death of a beloved family member, my dog, and am now dealing with the terminal cancer of a friend, and I can tell you something for sure: being confident that this life is all there is makes my relationships with those I love sweeter, and the time more precious. Atheism or agnosticism intensifies meaning. And I can't help observing that my husband and I, in our own quiet way, do far more to help the poor and unfortunate through active engagement with individuals than many we know who spout off constantly about their faith - I can't help wondering, again, if that's because we feel an urgency to help in the here and now that our believer friends don't?
PS: I take joy in noting that my atheist/agnostic peers posting here show signs of intelligence both in the way they frame their posts and in the fact that they bother to spell words accurately!!

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Atheism and nihilism
Posted by: apeshow on May 15, 2007 6:08 AM   
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I prefer the term agnostic for the very reason is that nobody knows anything. Atheism is too nihilistic of a view for me. A more philosophical look into our existence makes more sense. Do I believe in a charismatic god, hell no. But the possibility of multiple layers of existence is plausible. For you hardcore atheists out there take the words of Trent Reznor with you.
"God is dead and no one cares, if there is a hell. I'll see you there!!"

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