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To Circumcise or Not?

By Dana Goldstein, In These Times. Posted May 12, 2007.


Should uncircumcised men in America heed clinical studies showing that adult male circumcision in Africa can decrease the likelihood of an HIV infection by as much as 60%?

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The last time circumcision made headlines in New York City, the city Department of Health and Mental Hygiene was objecting to an ultra-Orthodox Jewish practice in which mohels -- professional circumcisers -- sucked blood out of the wounds of newly cut infants. After three babies contracted herpes, the city tried to ban the obscure ritual in 2005, provoking an angry response from the Orthodox community and a media dust-up.

Now circumcision is news again in New York, but this time the city is promoting the practice. The April 5 New York Times reported that the city health department has decided to encourage male circumcision as an HIV-prevention method among at-risk populations, particularly gay and African-American men. The move comes after several clinical studies in Africa showed that circumcision of an adult male can decrease his likelihood of infection by as much as 60 percent.

But New York's campaign brings up thorny questions for AIDS researchers and activists. Many are concerned about extrapolating prevention methods for American high-risk men, many of whom are bisexual or gay, from the African circumcision studies, which were conducted primarily among heterosexual groups. Meanwhile, others question how a male partner's circumcision affects a woman's susceptibility to HIV.

Two decades of research show women are less likely to contract a variety of sexually transmitted infections when their male partners are circumcised. But a recent Johns Hopkins University study examining 997 men in Uganda found that their female partners were more likely to contract HIV following a circumcision if the men ignored doctors' orders to abstain from sex until their wounds were fully healed, which usually takes about a month. And with the continued lack of a female-controlled HIV-prevention method -- microbicide gels have yet to advance out of the trial phase -- any HIV education effort must include a heavy emphasis on condom use. Spokespeople for the New York City Department of Health and Mental Hygiene and the Health and Hospital Corporation, which operates public clinics and hospitals in the city, say the city hasn't established any formal procedures for encouraging HIV-testing prior to circumcision in light of women's increased risk, but stress that any public circumcision efforts will be just one part of a multi-pronged HIV-prevention program.

Cultural stigma against circumcision also remains, especially among immigrant groups like Caribbean Americans. Though about 60 percent of American men are circumcised, the practice is relatively rare worldwide. And it has become less popular in recent years as parents have come to see circumcision as a painful surgery that removes an integral part of the male sexual anatomy. According to the CDC, in 2003, the American circumcision rate dropped to a postwar low of 55.9 percent.

Marjan Hezareh, scientific director of the Los Angeles-based AIDS Research Alliance, is cheered by New York City's decision to explore circumcision as what she terms an "additional prevention strategy" to condoms. For Hezareh, the health benefits for women of having a circumcised partner have been sufficiently proven and the medical benefits should outweigh any stigma against both adult and infant circumcision.

"We must disassociate circumcision from a sign of belonging to a specific religion or culture, and show it to people as another medical prevention strategy," she says. "I bet people will be very open about this."

But Tokes Osubu, executive director of Gay Men of African Descent in New York, is not so confident. He says he is baffled by the city's decision to focus on circumcision. "We might be sending the wrong message to people who are already circumcised," he says. "They might think, 'Oh, because I'm circumcised, I might be okay!' We are still dealing with the effects of HIV being misunderstood 25 years ago as a gay disease. Now I'm afraid people will say, 'I don't have a problem because Mayor Bloomberg said so.'"

AIDS activists also fear that a circumcision drive will undermine their long-term strategy to emphasize condom use. Indeed, homosexual anal sex is so risky that doctors agree circumcision provides little protection against HIV for gay men.

Ronald Goldman, a psychologist and founder of the Circumcision Resource Center, makes the point that "the U.S. has the highest circumcision rate and the highest HIV-infection rate in the developed world." A longtime anti-circumcision advocate, Goldman says, "If you're treating a problem, medical ethics would say use the least invasive method available. And condoms are more effective, plus they're cheaper."

But in battling a disease that continues to grow at alarming rates in urban areas (one in 20 Washington, D.C. residents is HIV-positive, and in New York City, African-American and gay men have infection rates as high as 10 to 20 percent), New York City's proposed circumcision drive is at the vanguard of public health efforts. Whether HIV/AIDS activists will get on board remains to be seen.

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Unrealistic
Posted by: Logic's Edge on May 12, 2007 12:24 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So far as I understand it, the fundamental problem is unprotected sex.

If a guy won't wear a condom, what are the odds he'll go in for an adult circumcision? Especially if he sees no benefit to himself, only others.

Sounds painful too. Maybe not the procedure itself, but the period afterwards.

Even so far as the benefit to others goes, 40% is still far too large to justify, well, anything.

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comsympinko
Posted by: eyespy on May 12, 2007 12:24 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As with many seemingly bizarre Biblical proscriptions, this one is linked to a grain of truth.

Then it was syphilis.

Now it is HIV/AIDS.

Not eating shellfish and pork made sense to the ancient people who wrote the Bible. They could kill you.

There are probably more references to circumcision in the Bible than anything else.

Other religions focus on it as well.

An ancient hygenic practice fails when the threat of disease no longer exists.

Trichinosis and death from bad shrimp no longer seriously threaten us in the US.

They are truly ancient.

Syphilis, herpes simples, and HIV/AIDS threaten us all every time we are intimate with an unfamiliar (or familiar, tragically)another.

They are very real and very current.

Circumcision is a highly effective public health initiative begun over 5,000 years ago.

One of the few cases where tradition is a good reason for doing something.

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» Male Ego Thing Posted by: WWMD
» RE: Male Ego Thing Posted by: osd
» RE: Male Ego Thing--Just a Comment Posted by: apophenia_monkey
» RE: Male Ego Thing Posted by: specom
» RE: comsympinko Posted by: Swithun Mason
» RE: comsympinko Posted by: JoshuaLudd
» RE: Typical Knee-jerk hippie reaction Posted by: Ydotheyhateus
» Such a bizarre concept... Posted by: Swithun Mason
Where is the evidence?
Posted by: Obijuan on May 12, 2007 12:36 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It seems pretty odd that this article so lacks scientific evidence.

Can someone with any medical background explain to me WHY circumcision reduces these diseases? You probably can't because there likely is no evidence for how this works.

I'll take a guess at how it works: Men who are willing to have this procedure done are already in the category of men that is more responsible, more likely to use a condom, and less likely to already have AIDS. Given how these disease spread, it makes little logical sense why this would matter, unless circumcision is an indicator of overall sexual responsibility. This is especially true in Africa, where adults are getting the procedure.

Why not give us some statistics from American? Are the vast majority of those with SDs or AIDS in America uncircumcised? This is a very misleading article.

obi

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» RE: Where is the evidence? Posted by: Swatopluk
» Good Point Posted by: Gravitas
» RE: Where is the evidence? Posted by: joannedickson
» Here is one possible explanation Posted by: stormchilde1975
Circumcision: the triumph of Judeo-Christian teachings
Posted by: Lector on May 12, 2007 12:49 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Especially in America. Why would the Hebrew God create man with a foreskin in the first place and then make it a religious rite to have it later cut off? As for hygiene, the Church once attacked the habit of the bath on the grounds that it made the body more attractive towards sin and dirt was praised while lice were called the pearls of God and the mark of a holy man.

Robert Lightfoot

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One man's experience.
Posted by: TheTruthSeeker on May 12, 2007 2:17 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
My folks had me circumcised in a hospital when I was five years old. I also had my tonsils removed then.

I was only told about the latter procedure which seemed tolerable because I would be rewarded with ice cream. Imagine my surprise when I woke up in the hospital with a bandage around my pee pee.

Things would be different today if I were uncircumcised and someone told me to have the operation so as to reduce the chance of catching a sexually transmitted disease. Cut off my foreskin? Are you out of your freaking mind?

I believe most uncircumcised men would react the same way, no matter where they lived or how high their education.

For the TRUTH about Iraq, Bush 43 and his treasonous neocon cabal, visit the following patriotic websites:

CommonDreams.org
FreedomCentralUSA.com
PhonyFighterPilot.com
VoteVets.org

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Not perhaps really relevant to at risk adults...
Posted by: zipper696 on May 12, 2007 3:39 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
..but a good indicator that infant circumcision as a surgical procedure in the first months of life is worthwhile for enhanced security in adult life.

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To illustrate
Posted by: abstractedaway on May 12, 2007 4:38 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If cutting off a man's nerve-dense flesh is good because it might prevent disease, why isn't anyone advocating cutting off women's breasts at puberty to pre-empt cancer?

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» RE: To illustrate Posted by: Vik
Foreskin Phobia
Posted by: bomec on May 12, 2007 5:42 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When will the foreskin phobics give it a rest? Lord have mercy! Every male mammal in creation is endowed at birth with a foreskin, and so is every female, though the clitoral "prepuce" is less prominent and visible, to be sure. Lopping off foreskins--or clitorises or labia-- is genital muitilation, whether the victim is male or female. The answer to parts of the body that get dirty and might become sources of infection if not cleansed, which is all of them (parts of the body, that is), is hygiene, NOT amputation. And hygiene extends to hygienic sexual practices as well. Dirty is dirty and clean is clean, and it has nothing to do with foreskins.

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» RE: Foreskin Phobia Posted by: Sushi
» RE: Foreskin Phobia Posted by: Benjaminsjw
I am not worried
Posted by: colinmeister on May 12, 2007 5:45 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have not been circumcised, I am married, and I do not screw around.
I see no reason to be circumcised. I see my situation as having nothing in common with third world men who partake in unprotected sex with multiple partners.

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» RE: I am not worried.....But.... Posted by: colinmeister
» RE: I am not worried.....But.... Posted by: counterpoint
WTF
Posted by: Jonnieprince on May 12, 2007 6:44 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
if grown men sucking the penises of babies they have just mutilated is not enough to persuade people that this is an unnecessary practice, I don't know what is....

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» RE: WTF Posted by: yellow
Completely Barbaric!
Posted by: Maggieb on May 12, 2007 6:54 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I know a man who was circumcized in his twenties. The quality of his sex life took a drastic dive due to the nerve endings being lost forever.
How a disgusting jewish ritual entered a whole nation is quite obvious. Another arrogant assumption that doctors have the answers.
They only kill 100,000 people a year, so you keep listening to their rhetoric, I choose to ignore them.

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» RE: Completely Barbaric! Posted by: yellow
» RE: Completely Barbaric! Posted by: wwittman
» RE: Completely Barbaric! Posted by: bomec
And here's an idea for women . . .
Posted by: Moonray on May 12, 2007 7:23 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Have American women considered that wearing a chastity belt reduces the risk of HIV infection by 95 percent?

You really should consider it.

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Mutilation, Plain & Simple
Posted by: NoPCZone on May 12, 2007 7:33 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It should be illegal to alter a baby boy's genitals. It is not something that can later be reversed. I was circumcised before coming home from the hospital and would sue if I could.

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» RE: Mutilation, Plain & Simple Posted by: willymack
foreskin issue
Posted by: xvictor on May 12, 2007 7:39 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
a little common sense hygiene is lot better than whacking off a male bodily part!!

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» RE: foreskin issue Posted by: yellow
Circumcision? The Opposing Medical Views
Posted by: thirdmg on May 12, 2007 8:02 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What's wrong with promoting mass circumcision of males?

At Doctors Opposing Circumcision, the article Doctors Opposing Circumcision HIV Statement explains what's wrong with the argument for circumcision and what effects circumcision has.

"Male circumcision removes nerves from the penis and causes significant loss of sexual sensitivity and function. For this reason, many circumcised men are reluctant to use condoms. A program of mass circumcision may reduce condom usage and have an adverse effect on the overall HIV infection incidence."

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...talk about sexual trauma....
Posted by: kmaripo on May 12, 2007 8:35 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I chose not to circumcise my son 24 years ago, not only because the practice smacked of pathological socio-religious fanaticism and medical opportunism, but also because, while I was in the hospital after giving birth, I happened to walk past a procedure room where an infant was being circumcised (I asked.) The sound of that days-old boy child screaming in pain made my blood run cold and there doesn't exist a study, report, tradition or mandate that could ever have convinced me to subject my son to that kind of torture. Parents who buy the line of BS that 'babies don't feel the pain' should be strapped down to a table with a surgical light shining in their eyes and have their own exquisitely sensitive genital tissue severed from their bodies before they decide to inflict the same mutilation on their helpless newborn....I honestly don't know how any parent can live with themselves after intentionally subjecting their precious child to what amounts to sexual abuse in the very most extreme. The study I would like to see is one that investigates the relationship between circumcised men and sexual crimes. When are humans going to get it that nature probably has things figured out in spite of our constant attempts to one-up her? Oh yeah....THAT won't happen until there are no more bucks to be made by subjecting humans (and animals, and the planet for that matter) to our seemingly endless capacity for rapine, torture and creating mayhem in the name of science/progress/profit. What sad creatures we can be, that we don't even express as much consideration and compassion for our children as the 'beasts' who walk the earth.

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STOP MALE GENITAL MUTILATION NOW!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by: JoshuaLudd on May 12, 2007 8:39 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
No matter what the benefits might be, if this were women's genitals we were talking about there would be NO discussion.

STOP MALE GENITAL MUTILATION NOW!

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P. S.
Posted by: kmaripo on May 12, 2007 8:43 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...my brother and his partner died of AIDS and they were both circumcised......

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Nordic countries have more or less uncircumcised men
Posted by: veffari on May 12, 2007 9:08 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Nordic countries have more or less uncircumcised men, yet nobody has found the same correspondence comparing it to the American population with its 60% circumcision. The HIV rate is NOT higher as corresponding with the African study. So I think there are some people making money on this one.

Anyway this means that the African study is far from conclusive in applying the data to the probably over-zealous health department in New York. Circumcision has NOT been recommended at all, by the medical associations around the world. Because it serves no purpose and is considered unneccessary except among the specific social groups that practice it.

Who is to say that a daily shower has the same effect in terms of reducing the HIV transmittal?

In any case, nobody is touching mine. Its full of nerves and is very sensitive. ;-)

Thank you.

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Grampa speaks
Posted by: rwjaxon on May 12, 2007 9:15 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I was circumcised at birth nearly 77 years ago. When my sons were born I had to insist to the doctors that they NOT be circumcised. I stess insist because it was simply done in that period as a matter of course. The doctor could not understand why I would not want my sons to be circumcised no matter how often I kept saying that it was an unnecessary mutilation. I finally had to get very tough with the doctor in order to prevent an automatic circumcision.

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Condoms for all
Posted by: bouyant on May 12, 2007 10:19 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If condoms were treated like a human right and made available free in unlimited amounts to everyone everywhere on the planet, multiple problems would be resolved or improved in a short time (HIV, STD's, population increases, poverty) and the cost to do that would appear miniscule compared to the cost of treating those problems.

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African study is simply wrong!
Posted by: veffari on May 12, 2007 11:43 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
2 facts that disprove this African study:

1. USA has majority of male population with foreskin removed.
HIV rate: 0,6

2. Western Europe has most males with foreskin.
HIV rate: 0,3

Believe me, Western Europeans have just as much sex!

So why are people spreading these lies about 60% increased infection? Answer: 2) Money and 1) enforcing certain cultural values of a narrow social group onto other social groups, no matter how wrong it is to mutilate childrens genitalia. New York (I lived here for 20 yrs) is in many ways a 3rd world type corruption country. Clearly there is that corruption at the health care level.

Medical associations throughout the world do NOT promote circumcision. Because it really has no purpose at all except in the minds of a limited group of people.

Also:

DANA Goldstein is clearly very biased in this article in her support of circumcision. She needs to reconsider the results of her writings.

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» RE: African study is simply wrong! Posted by: counterpoint
Circumcision is the disgusting mutilation of infants without consent
Posted by: ateo on May 12, 2007 12:08 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It should be banned around the world. It is the gross violation of a person's human rights to be mutilated as an infant while they cannot decide or defend themselves.

There really isn't anything more to be said on this subject. If you think the medical justifications (which are thin at best) are so strong then present them to men and let them decide for themselves whether or not they want to undertake body modification surgery to reduce the odds of transmitting STD's they may not even have to their female partners.

To circumcise or not is NOT a decision that parents are in any position to make for their son.

Permanently altering a human being's body without their consent is a disgusting, vile, reprehensible act that should be banned across the globe. It makes me sick to even think about this and see it discussed in such benign terms as if, just because it is widely practiced, it is right.

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DON'T CIRCUMCISE !
Posted by: drcyflowers on May 12, 2007 2:01 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I encourage all of you NOT TO CIRCUMCISE your sons!

Do you realize that circumcision is done in this country WITHOUT anesthetic? What could possible be crueller to a baby boy?

In Australia, circumcision used to be customary also, but in the 70s, the Australia Medical Association decided that circumcision should no longer be routinely performed, because it serves no useful purpose!

Obviously the penis is a very important part of an adult man, so why the hell do people think they have the right to chop off part of it without his permission?

I am gay. I've seen circumcised and uncircumcised penises in action, and I know that you are better off uncut.

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Why?
Posted by: drcyflowers on May 12, 2007 2:06 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why should circumcision be encouraged in the US just because Africa has a high HIV infection rate? The two places are very different. I have serious doubts about the conclusions of this article.

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» RE: Why? Posted by: morticia
Human rights issue?
Posted by: dantesdad on May 12, 2007 2:09 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What I can't grasp is why it isn't obvious to one and all that the right to make a decision on having ANY healthy, normally functioning part of your body cut off is a basic human rights issue.

Circucision should be viewed as a human rights abuse - both male and female circumsicion, of course.

Any other part of an infant boy's body being cut off would arouse complete outrage, but the skin on the end of his penis does not?

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Swithun
Posted by: Swithun Mason on May 12, 2007 2:24 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In most of the "developed world" outside of the US the practice of circumcision comes firmly into the region of evidence based medicine. The evidence is that there is a small, but statistically significant risk (of problematic, potentially fatal bleeding) associated with the procedure. Therefore it isn't practiced except where clinically indicated. As with just a couple of other areas at the moment, the US really needs to catch up on this... the practice is somewhat cruel and totally un-necessary. I suspect though, that the US medical industry makes a few dollars from it so...the habit won't change any time soon.

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» Well, lets see... Posted by: JoshuaLudd
First from these two jew 'women who traffic in sex related matters for money'
Posted by: ekipnrut on May 12, 2007 2:42 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
e.g. Goldstein and Hezareh we have:
Marjan Hezareh, scientific director of the Los Angeles-based AIDS Research Alliance, is cheered by New York City's decision to explore circumcision as what she terms an "additional prevention strategy" to condoms. For Hezareh, the health benefits for women of having a circumcised partner have been sufficiently proven and the medical benefits should outweigh any stigma against both adult and infant circumcision. ...Fortunately we have available the usual bane of racist arrogant jew 'women who traffic in sex related matters for money' with or without Ph.Ds i.e.,... the facts :
AUS
Be sure to check out the entire site... it thoroughly demolishes
this pseudo science 'circumcision as STD prophylactic' garbage. While we're at it maybe we should revisit the work of Dr. Mengele as viewed through a (pediatric) Marquis de Sade lens...... :O)

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» RE: On this matter...... Posted by: ekipnrut
» RE: On this matter...... Posted by: yellow
Bogus study to trick uneducated parents
Posted by: Ambrose Pare on May 12, 2007 3:54 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There is clearly a bias by the media and medical association to revive this useless procedure.

Why not just use condoms or monogamy?

Also, pharmaceutical companies use those infant foreskins to generate synthetic tissue. One foreskin generates a profit of about $100k. If no one cuts their kids, the supply dries up.

Bogus study to trick uneducated parents into making a choice which will boost their profits.

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Evidence that circumcision does harm?
Posted by: youngdem on May 12, 2007 4:37 PM   
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Here's the question though, if 60% of American males are circumcised, is there any evidence that it does serious harm (aside from initial removal of tissue)? All I hear are unsubstantiated claims of reduced sensation and psychological harm. Also, the neurological consequences of adult, child, and infant circumcision are probably quite different, so if you're going to discuss them, discuss them seperately.

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A lie believed by everyone is not the truth.
Posted by: han on May 12, 2007 5:02 PM   
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I assume you haven't heard it yet: AIDS is not caused by HIV.

http://www.helpforhiv.com/
http://www.duesberg.com/

This sure make a whole lot more sense then all the stories I have heard so far in the media about AIDS.

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» Logic is useless when debating... Posted by: ABetterFuture
Circumcision = Barbaric
Posted by: willdufauve on May 12, 2007 6:14 PM   
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Male genital circumcision = genital mutilation
Female genital circumcision = genital mutilation
Baby genital circumcision = baby mutilation

There must be enough work for doctors to make a good living without this.

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And Who Started This Whole Circumcision Mess in the First Place?
Posted by: yellow on May 12, 2007 6:20 PM   
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Da Jooooooooooz!!

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» YELLOW IS RIGHT Posted by: charlieparisek
» RE: YELLOW IS RIGHT Posted by: yellow
leave it alone
Posted by: norh on May 12, 2007 7:45 PM   
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Happier with it still in the wrapper.

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» RE: leave it alone Posted by: yellow
Study of female mutilation as a barrier to AIDS?
Posted by: herbal on May 12, 2007 11:58 PM   
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What irony that a woman named Goldstein would write such an article about male circumcision. Where is the clinical study of correlation between female clitoral 'circumcision' and rates of AIDS infection? Would Ms. Goldstein recommend abandonment of the anti female-genital movement if a favorable correlation could be proven? So how about castration as a cure for AIDS? I am circumcised and resent it as my partner has had prior and pleasant experience with whole units, lol. No, my boys have not been circumcised in infancy as they can make up their own minds after gaining their majority at 18.

This whole topic is reminiscent of the genocide of Native Americans in the BIA's routine policy of sterilization of pre-teen Indian girls during unrelated surgery that lasted into the 1970's. They had a public health rationale. How about abortion from the logical conclusion that it prevents disease, old age and death?? Such intellectual sloppiness as Ms. Goldstein's is really about independent variables that do not justify the means to the imagined ends.

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CUT TO THE CHASE
Posted by: charlieparisek on May 13, 2007 1:02 AM   
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Let's stop screwing around and really get down to it by chopping off the dicks of anyone within an "at-risk population, particularly gay and African-American men."

I mean, this is the only way to be sure, right?

Right. Who's next?

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Perversion
Posted by: chirho33 on May 13, 2007 2:34 AM   
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If uncirumcised men in Africa and elsewhere were taught how to keep themselves hygienically clean, I don't think there would be a problem. What needs to happen is for promiscuous men to use condoms. In Africa, with all of its nonsenical "cultural" defnitions and tabus regarding what is a "man", condom usage gets tossed by the wayside because it is seen as "unmanly". Women who insist men use condoms are berated, raped or, in the case of their husbands, usually told to shut up or worse. Regardless whether it is ritualized or officialized, circumcision is a sexual perversion.

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I'm dumbfounded
Posted by: PhantomOfLiberty on May 13, 2007 6:24 AM   
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How in the world can the lack of foreskin reduce the risk of AIDS? How is it physically possible?? This article claims that circumcison CAN reduce the spread of AIDS in AFRICA by AS MUCH AS 60%. But how? The author neglects to explain how the loss of a little bit of skin around the penis can magically protect you from AIDS. If anything it seems it would be the other way around! I am dumbfounded that this article exists and that circumcision is even an issue.

Circumcision is a barbaric ancient religious practice. It is the mutilating of children's genitalia. Anyone with an ounce of logic in their heads can see that the claim of circumcision protecting you from AIDS is LUDICROUS! You want to protect yourself from AIDS?... wear a f**king condom or just don't have sex.

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The author's religious bias in favor of circumcism
Posted by: DCBeltway on May 13, 2007 9:17 AM   
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People the author if Jewish..no wonder she is promoting circumcism as its a tenet of her faith. Goldstein is a Jewish name.

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» SLIMY DICKS Posted by: charlieparisek
This is just stupid
Posted by: Cruella on May 13, 2007 6:25 PM   
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Clearly the benefits of circumcision with regard to HIV are only relevant to people who have unprotected sex. If you're worried about HIV, use condoms.

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Who on earth lets articles like this get on to otherwise respectable websites?
Posted by: Cruella on May 13, 2007 6:36 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The "cultural stigma" against circumcision... No - circumcision IS a cultural phenomenon. our ape ancestors did not go around chopping parts of their own bodies off.

It's a ridiculous practice which should be illegal other than for medical necessity or, possibly, by election as an adult. If a new religion sprung up that advocated removing childrens earlobes shortly after birth, we would be horrified and rule it illegal. Circumcision is no different, in fact it's worse because it affects the sensitivity of the genitals. Not to mention the fact that every year a number of children die as a result of the operation.

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To HEED studies, DON'T circumcise
Posted by: TLCTugger on May 13, 2007 9:47 PM   
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The study authors make explicitly clear that they would suggest only ADULTS in lands where the epidemic is rampant consider circumcision.

The cut African men in the studies CONTRACTED HIV at a rate SIX TIMES HIGHER than the rate of new infection for African-American men. Hardly an AIDS vaccine.

It costs the UN just 3 cents to give away a condom.

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Castrastion anxiety & the breast analogy
Posted by: planet doomed on May 13, 2007 10:27 PM   
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The comparison to removing breasts is inaccurate. A more apt analogy would be removing a tiny snippet of breast tissue at birth, but even this isn't the same. Men fall victim to testicular cancer, but we don't advocate snipping those!

Most men are excited by a woman's breasts, removing them completely or changing their appearance would eliminate a source of much pleasure for men. Seriously doubt most men would prefer for all females to have smaller or indented breasts! Women, otoh, usually make no such distinction for cut/uncut preference in their partner.

Personally, I used to think that if it bothered even a few men, then of course this practice of circumcising enfants should cease. But if it seems to actually save many lives, and the researchers are convinced, then it would appear reasonable to continue.

It's a vaccine.

Of all the men who compare circumcision to a profound horror, the ones who typically are the most upset about it also tend to also exhibit the most insecurities. It's a castration anxiety; a belief that their manhood resides entirely in their penis. In their mind, they have somehow become less than a RealManâ„¢, or even... {gasp!}a woman!

Men secure in their manhood tend not to have anxiety over this issue. Hugo Swarchez (sp?) wrote an article at his blog about his experience as an adult undergoing circumcision, and found no ill effects.

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article ignoring its own arguments
Posted by: thha on May 14, 2007 3:34 AM   
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the article makes it quite clear how useless circumcision as a public health program is in preventing hiv infections:
Ronald Goldman, a psychologist and founder of the Circumcision Resource Center, makes the point that "the U.S. has the highest circumcision rate and the highest HIV-infection rate in the developed world." A longtime anti-circumcision advocate, Goldman says, "If you're treating a problem, medical ethics would say use the least invasive method available. And condoms are more effective, plus they're cheaper."
the author however chooses to conveniently ignore this and draw the opposite conclusion.

besides, i find it offensive and disgusting to promote genital mutilation of men and babies (forced mutilation in the latter case) on the basis of imagined - at best possible and minor - health benefits for women (for that is a main thrust of the article).

i also find offense in people belittleing mens' objections to the mutilation of their genitals with castration fears. circumcision imho IS a 'lesser' form of castration - the genitals are mutilated and rendered less sensitive, surely leading to a less pleasurable sexuality for both the affected men (as well as their partners) - thus i share such concerns and find them fully justified.

stop genital mutilation! - irregardless of gender! (shocking that the latter should even have to be mentioned)

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» RE: article ignoring its own arguments Posted by: truly scrumptious
A touchy subject
Posted by: may261989 on May 14, 2007 4:17 PM   
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I didnt find the author promoted too biased a view, however the bias is there nonetheless.
Circumsion is the only thing where my Jewish friends all of a sudden cease to be the progressive free thinking individuals they are in all other walks of life. I can understand guys behaving like this, after all, if someone had chopped the top of my willy off I would be pretty darn bitter as well. But the gals as well?To me, this is a cultural thing, where the uncircumsized penis is seen as an ugly thing as opposed to the opposite.
Seinfeld is a classic example , written by David and Seinfeld- I refer to the episode where Elaine constantly points out her preference for cicrumsized penises as they have a personality - that's funny, but the underlying message in the episode is there - circumsion is natural and people who are not circumsized are somehow not normal. And this is Seinfeld, two very progressive brilliant comedians but with ancient values. These lines are coming out of Elaine's mouth but they are written by Larry David - we all know how David writes from his heart - he obviously feels strongly about the subject. Why?? Because he's been circumsized himself.
Bottom line is, sorry chaps, if you have been circumsized , that's your tough luck , take it up with your parents, don't take it out on those of us who have been unharmed by suggesting we are not normal - you are the abnormal ones -you've been mutilated!

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WHO's Dr. Kevin De Cock (not kidding) says get your dicks kosher
Posted by: Ydotheyhateus on May 14, 2007 8:17 PM   
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Adult male circumcision reduces the risk of HIV infection from heterosexual intercourse by up to 60 per cent, three trials suggested.

Early results of the trials conducted in Kenya, Uganda and South Africa were so positive that the studies were ended early to give all of the men participating a chance to get circumcized.

Full data from the trial appears in Saturday's issue of The Lancet.

"This is an extraordinary development," said Dr. Kevin de Cock, director of the World Health Organization's AIDS department. "Circumcision is the most potent intervention in HIV prevention that has been described."

The studies show circumcision can reduce the risk of HIV infection in men, Marie-Louise Newell of the University of KwaZulu-Natal in South Africa and Till Barnighausen of the Harvard School of Public Health said in a commentary that accompanies the research.

If all of the 2.5 million men in KwaZulu-Natal province had been circumcised, 37,000 new infections could have been prevented in 2007, they estimated.


Here's one:
BETHESDA, Md., Dec. 14 -- Two U.S.-led trials of men in sub-Saharan Africa were halted early when interim analyses of results confirmed that circumcision can significantly reduce heterosexual transmission of HIV.

A trial of 2,784 HIV-negative men in Kisumu, Kenya, found a 53% reduction in HIV acquisition in circumcised versus non-circumcised men.


In the second trial, a study of 4,996 HIV-negative men in Rakai, Uganda, circumcision was associated with a 48% reduction in HIV infection.


The trials, both sponsored by the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID), were originally scheduled to continue until mid-2007, but the significant benefit identified in the preliminary analyses prompted NIAID to stop the studies on the basis of the clear clinical benefit of circumcision.

And another:
The South African study, by comparison, showed a risk reduction of 60%.


The mechanism of the protection appears to relate to exposure of HIV target cells, according to Robert Bailey, Ph.D., of the University of Chicago, and colleagues, who led the Kenyan trial.


They wrote, "the inner mucosal surface of the human foreskin, exposed upon erection, has nine times higher density of HIV target cells (Langerhans' cells, CD4+ T cells, and macrophages) than does cervical tissue. In addition, by contrast with the foreskin's inner surface, HIV target cells on the outer surface and the glans are protected by a layer of squamous epithelial cells."


Dr. Bailey and colleagues added, "We now have very concrete evidence that a relatively simple surgical procedure can have a very large impact on HIV. This is really the first good news we've had in quite a long time. If we can reduce the risk of infection by such a substantial amount then we can save a lot of lives."

Here's CDC's reasoning:
Compared to the dry external skin surface, the inner mucosa of the foreskin has less keratinization (deposition of fibrous protein), a higher density of target cells for HIV infection (Langerhans cells), and is more susceptible to HIV infection in laboratory studies [3]. It has also been argued that the foreskin may have greater susceptibility to traumatic epithelial disruptions (tears) during intercourse, providing a portal of entry for pathogens including HIV [4]. In addition, the micro-environment in the preputial sac between the unretracted foreskin and the glans penis may be conducive to viral survival [2]. Finally, the higher rates of sexually transmitted genital ulcerative disease, such as syphilis, observed in uncircumcised men may also increase susceptibility to HIV infection [5].

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» SELF-LOATHING IS NOT AN EXCUSE Posted by: charlieparisek
I cannot imagine my life without my foreskin
Posted by: BiBen on May 16, 2007 12:40 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The thought of removing it seems particularly obscene.

While it doesn't seem to dampen sexual pleasure for men nearly as much as female circumcision, Circumcision seems to be nothing more than a way to control or repress sexuality more than anything else.

My feeling is that the study is missing a variety of factors to make any real conclusions, but even if were proven beyond a reasonable doubt that circumcision is safer, I would not subject myself to such a barbaric, pleasure robbing ritual.

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physicians
Posted by: fg on May 29, 2007 10:50 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If most physicians who performed/perform circumcision
were/are Jewish, wouldn't such people be culturally prejudiced to favor the procedure? Doing circumcisions is a good source of income. This verity must inspire scraping the bottom of the barrel for medical justifications.

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