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China's Premature Rise to Great Power

China's so-called rise to great power status is usually taken for granted. Still, a convincing argument can be made that Beijing's post-Cold War grand strategy is based on fear of failure rather than management of success.
May 7, 2007  |  
 
 
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China only qualifies as a great power by the skin of its teeth, if the lower limit of such status is defined as the ability to decide how to do things in either the economic, military or political sectors of the international system. China's position as a political great power is largely determined by the implosion of the Soviet Union. Its ascendancy to this rank has been based on psychology in that a successor challenging U.S. pre-eminence was expected and pronounced before the fact. While Beijing has convinced the surroundings that China is a great power, it is struggling to catch up both economically and militarily with the United States.

Contemporary China faces three major challenges: economically and militarily it continues to lag far behind the United States, U.S. grand strategy threatens its rise, and a Chinese alternative to the liberal model of state-society relations has not been developed. Beijing's foreign policy is therefore based on the premise of how to avoid China's descent into the ranks of secondary powers.

Economic and Military Capabilities
Chinese foreign policy is best compared to the diplomacy of Austria's Metternich (1812 to 1822). Metternich was instrumental in creating the preconditions of the Concert of Europe that maintained peace for almost one hundred years. At the beginning of the 19th century, Austria was the weakest European power and did not have the military and economic means to exercise pre-eminence. However, by succeeding in defining a common political framework that regulated state conduct, Metternich made Austria the most influential power on international security.

Contemporary China's economic and military capabilities are stretched to a breaking point. Beijing can ill afford a financial crisis or a war. China's GDP was US $2,229 billion in 2005, which is only a fraction of the U.S. GDP at US $12,455 billion. China is a country struggling with poverty. More than 160 million Chinese have consumption levels below one dollar a day. The government has to reform the state sector and the administration to solve problems such as growing income inequality, economically lagging western and northeastern regions, unsustainable and inefficient resource exploitation, and growing demands for energy imports. China has not yet adopted a financial regime of currency flexibility, which indicates that China is vulnerable to fluctuating exchange rates.

China's armed forces also need an upgrade. Beijing's military capabilities are considerable. They include nuclear and space capabilities and China pursues advanced defensive and power projection capabilities. China's defense budget, estimated to be US $104 billion in 2005, is only superseded by the United States. However, Chinese dependency on Russian arms deliveries and its arduous efforts to catch up with the Revolution in Military Affairs imply that China is far from the U.S. level of military prowess, especially in naval and aerial capabilities. A well-equipped and well-trained navy and air force is a necessary condition for exercising strategic influence in large parts of China's Asian home region, such as the Indian Ocean, Southeast Asia, the Taiwan Strait and the Japanese isles. This goal remains out of China's reach for several decades.

China's Grand Strategy
Contemporary Chinese foreign policy is Metternichian in that it encourages international agreement on acceptable aims and methods of state conduct. Metternich protected Austria against the forces of nationalism that spread from Napoleonic France and against the expansionary goals of Russia and Prussia. These concerns were shared by secondary European powers. They supported Metternich's preference for a status quo policy that embedded the balance of power in common principles of state conduct. The balance of power was therefore driven by political influence rather than by mere military and economic power.

In today's international system, the United States is well aware that it has a strong chance of killing a future Chinese challenger in its infancy. To curb China's economic growth, Washington may be motivated to demand revaluation of China's currency. Militarily, Washington is consolidating the U.S. alliance system to maintain its position of pre-eminence. Politically, the United States is promoting the spread of liberalism. Washington's policy encourages China to construct an alternative based on diplomacy and persuasion rather than imposition and military force postures. Contemporary Chinese foreign policy reflects the determination of the weaker power to ensure its say on future international security arrangements and that the United States does not achieve hegemony.

The attractive elements of Beijing's proposal are cooperative security, multipolarity and China's defense of the old UN system. China's concept of cooperative security is about building trust, confidence and multilateral cooperation with the purpose of removing the risk of armed conflict. This concept has been applied widely to China's numerous territorial and maritime conflicts with neighboring countries. At minimum, the disputes are being negotiated, as with the Sino-Indian territorial conflict. At maximum, the contested borders have been permanently settled, as with the Sino-Russian territorial conflict. The Chinese concept of multipolarity does not imply traditional power balancing through alliances, but through the concept of strategic partnerships with powers such as Russia and the European Union. These partnerships form the basis for warding off U.S. hegemony by poaching on Washington's alliances and partnerships.

China also supports the old UN system's principles of absolute sovereignty, effective territorial control as a basis for regime recognition, and the authority of the UN Security Council in global security management. The UN is the platform for China to demonstrate that its pursuit of national interests is embedded in globally accepted principles of state conduct. China's affiliation with UN-based institutions is used to expose the alleged immorality of U.S. policies such as the 2003 Iraq war. According to China, the war has not been carried out within the confines of the UN system. In addition, China's proactive approach to UN-based institutions is used to confirm China's image as a responsible power committed to protect the common interests of states without using force. An example is Beijing's accession in 2003 to the Treaty of Amity and Cooperation in Southeast Asia that commits the signatory states to peaceful conflict resolution.

Beijing advocates the preservation of the old UN system as the political framework underpinning state conduct for two reasons. First, a Westphalian type of order wards off U.S. demands for the spread of political liberalism and allows China to concentrate on its domestic economic and social development. For example, the growing gap between rich and poor segments of Chinese society is considered an immediate security concern by China's political elites because it threatens the legitimacy of the Chinese Communist Party. Second, Beijing's commitment to the old UN system is supported by secondary powers such as the Southeast Asian states, Russia, South Korea and India. These states share China's concern that the U.S. alliance system will form the basis of a hegemonic order that minimizes their international clout.

Domestic Problems of Political Legitimacy
Like Austria's designs for European order, China's proposal for international order is conservative. Metternich's system contained no inherent mechanisms of reform save from references to the old principle of dynastic rule. It was designed to prevent revolution by sustaining a balance of forces between the states on the basis of a consensus on the principles of absolute sovereignty and non-interference in the domestic affairs of states. This moral basis encouraged political authorities to use means of oppression to secure their hold on power. They did not think in terms of political reforms that would satisfy demands from groups whose interests were at odds with existing domestic political power structures.

Beijing's designs for international order are conservative in that they do not suggest an alternative to the liberal model of state-society relations. China retains an authoritarian political system, which the government has taken very limited steps to democratize. The justification for this policy is that stability protects the interests of China's people better than extensive popular influence on the government.

The political philosophy of Confucianism, and its notions of collectivity and hierarchy, has been suggested as a basis for constructing an alternative model of state-society relations if translated into workable political arrangements. Beijing is developing a Confucius-based notion of a harmonious society that integrates the economic, political, cultural and societal aspects of China into one coherent entity based on fairness and justice. This effort reflects the Chinese leadership's awareness of the necessity to develop an attractive model of state-society relations. However, Confucianism has predominantly been used as a pretext to fend off demands for liberal political reform rather than as a basis for constructing a viable model for state-society relations.

Confucianism holds some appeal across the Asian region, but its notion of hierarchy is not seen as an attractive alternative even in Asia when it emerges in China's relations with neighboring states. For example, China's agreement to shelve sovereignty disputes without clearly renouncing its claims in the South China Sea is conceived as a generous gesture of resource sharing with states that, in Beijing's view, do not have a priori rights to the area. This Chinese outlook implies that the interim settlement is based on mercy rather than on merit.

Consequences for International Order
A main difference between 19th century Austria and contemporary China is that the majority of secondary powers only partially support Chinese designs for international order. Instead, the secondary powers maximize their national interests by buying into both U.S. and Chinese designs for international order.

For China, this means that the secondary powers will only support Beijing's policies on the basis of a U.S. military presence. Ironically, the U.S. alliance system is a precondition of China's ability to undermine it. The result is an in-between international order dominated by pure power politics but with significant elements of common interests. Although the United States is likely to maintain hegemonic aspirations, Washington benefits substantially from an order based on the U.S. alliance system as the fundamental security structure. The current in-between order may therefore remain in place for the foreseeable future.


Liselotte Odgaard is an associate professor in the department of political science, Aarhus University, Denmark, and a visiting scholar at the Fairbank Center, Harvard University, in spring 2007.
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One word describes this article: BULLSHIT!
Posted by: HughScott on May 7, 2007 5:16 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Enough said.

Hugh E. Scott, editor of the forthcoming JohnQPublic4PRESIDENT2008.com and King-George.biz, the only website with hardcopy proof of White House corruption.

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Economics & the Rise of China
Posted by: Squarehead on May 7, 2007 5:54 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Economics & the Rise of China

The article was interesting, in a scholarly way. But I would like to question the offered 'potential financial crisis' of China. Accepting the GDP figures, $2,229 billion (China) & $12,455 Billion (USA), there seem to me to be underlying problems in the US economy; they are compounded by the obvious political, military & organisational incompetence of your administration. (As evidenced by Iraq, Hurricane Katrina, the kleptocracy) From a point (in say 1945) of being the admired country in the world, you have sunk to being probably the most disliked & feared.

China, working from this base level, of 18% of the GDP of USA, has 4 times the population; even accepting the problems of the poverty, the demographic problems, the democratic struggle & oppression, they have a geat deal more potential from a viewpoint of a few years forward.

I remember ~ 17 years ago, when Japan was at a height of economic success, Japanese consumer goods seemed to be everywhere; and they were only exporting 42% of their GDP. So they were consuming 58%. Its got a lot of implications, 1,200 million consumers

I suggest that the military preparedness & spending of USA is a Trojan horse, soaking up your capital, of all kinds, social, political, money. [$52000 per hour of flying time for a Chinook, ~ $2,000,000 per soldier, per annum. As you might say, 'Do the math'

Personally, I look forward with some glee to the collapse of US economic & military power (All wars are won by materiel) The Chinese Pragmatist Party cannot be any worse.

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» A few points . . . Posted by: MAD
» RE: A few points . . . Posted by: asilsfable
» RE: A few points . . . Posted by: MAD

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fear of failure and culture of shame.
Posted by: albrechtkrausse on May 7, 2007 6:36 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Loss of face, etc. Is tied to Confucian thought and still influences people in China to a great extent although 'officially' the Party has replaced his values with 'class conscious' values. One is taught not to embarass their family. Often you get 'one shot' at a position or in school. If you fail you will be reassigned. Not necessarily blamed (because it shows more damage to the person that promoted you. His bad judgement. He put you in a position that was not meant for you.) There is a fatalistic attitude but one where also people are, historically, taken care of, as it is acceptable/necessary to fulfill all roles in society. Also there is fatalism that China WILL, once again, be the premier power/society in the world and they have a longterm view of history and this is an abberation and the Middle Kingdom will once again take the rightful place.

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Thoughts on China and the Impending Global Meltdown . . .
Posted by: MAD on May 7, 2007 8:05 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This article was a little short on specifics and rather long on assumptions but the Metternich analogy was quite astute. We should all be concerned with the socio-economic goings-on in China as it may very well become the impetus for economic decline in our time. One things is now certain: the People's Party is no longer "behind the wheel" and the Chinese economy has barreled past overheating and is approaching "scorching". One would think that economic growth eclipsing 11% is a good thing but when you lose the ability to put the brakes on this level of growth, you're headed for trouble.

The (incredibly!) excess liquidity still sloshing around China has lead to very sloppy lending practices not entirely dissimilar from those that took place in the US subprime lending fiasco. Moreover, most Chinese in Beijing, Shanghai, Guangzhou (and increasingly, simple bumpkins) are playing the market, investing in Chinese shares which are overvalued by perhaps as much as 80%. The US, Europe and even Latin America would like to see the Chinese spending on Whirlpool dishwashers, Cuisinart blenders, Krupps coffee makers and other durable goods from Brazil or Chile instead of socking away cash or buying already overvalued Chinese stock, but alas this is not to be. Remember our .com meltdown? China is very much heading in the same direction.

All these significant factors when taken together with China's soon-to-be "World's Leading Polluter" status, overpopulation and rigid governmental structure does not bode well for China, nor for the rest of us. Every country on earth displays economic weaknesses of some sort, it's just that China's are amplified greatly because we depend on them as part of the "Conveyor System". The conveyor system functions thusly: The Chinese produce cheap goods that we don't really need but cherish nonetheless. In turn, they stockpile export proceeds and buy US government issued debt that is loaned out in ponzi schemes (you know, subprime lending fiasco) thereby keeping American idiots in cheap $$$ in order to buy more cheap, poor quality Chinese crap or overvalued real-estate.

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cherry picking evidence by so-called "MIT" expert
Posted by: joel23 on May 7, 2007 8:07 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Just one glaring error here (of many) is the absence of an appreciation of the actual debt weakness of the American Economy. The claim is that our economy is stronger because our GDP number is so much higher than China's. But the fact is that our GDP number is entirely driven by massive debt, of which China is one of the main creditor nations. If you join this reality to a recent recognition in the Wall Street Journal by a major hedge fund manager, that there is a currency "bubble" of significant size in the world economy, and just like the dot.com bubble and the housing bubble it will have to burst (a "bubble" exists because market values in shares and currencies and derivatives are all too high, due to unrestrained specutlation). All this means is that when the world currency bubble bursts, our debtor position will be most exposed for the fatal economic weakness it is, which makes the rest of the article based upon a completely flawed foundation (an intellectual house built on sand). China will emerge dominant from this crisis, and America will be converted to third world status.

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garbage in -- garbage out
Posted by: shannonwhite on May 7, 2007 9:32 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The article states the Chinese military budget is over $100 billion. This contradicts List of countries and federations by military expenditures which puts the number at $45.5 billion -- less than the UK, France, Germany and Japan. The size of China's defense budget is controversial, and subject to a lot of spin from the same guys that brought you Iraqi WMDs. Shame on this author, Liselotte Odgaard, for not acknowledging this controversy, and for using the high-end of the estimate. Based on this dishonest use of numbers, I recommend disregarding the rest of the article. Propaganda works best when the lie being propagated is a throw-away remark rather than the subject of the article. Remember all those supposedly anti-war articles pre-invasion that accepted the Bush admin facts.

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Where is the outrage over Tibet?
Posted by: lessbread on May 7, 2007 1:31 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
China orders resettlement of thousands of Tibetans

ZENGSHOL, Tibet - In a massive campaign that recalls the socialist engineering of an earlier era, the Chinese government has relocated some 250,000 Tibetans - nearly one-tenth of the population - from scattered rural hamlets to new "socialist villages," ordering them to build new housing largely at their own expense and without their consent.

Goldstein noted that the settling of Han Chinese in Tibet's major cities already has weakened the influence of traditional Tibetan elites. "The cities are a loss," said Goldstein, referring to demography from a Tibetan point of view. "The last hope is to keep the villages intact. If there's a battleground for Tibetan identity, it's in the rural areas."

And the rural areas, at least in appearance on a reporter's 11-day tour, are coming under ever greater Chinese control.


And why are US companies working to kill China's new labor law?

China’s labour law raises US concerns

Undue Influence: Corporations Gain Ground in Battle over China's New Labor Law

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MIT Scholar, please read.
Posted by: speedy on May 7, 2007 6:23 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
1) Why can't you use Parity Purchasing Power (PPP) to compare China and U.S.? We all know that Chinese currency is undervalued by at least 30%. The fact is that, if hair cut in U.S. costs $10, it will cost $1 in China. This is generally true if you travel to China and stay away from expensive hotels.

2) China's rise has been mostly consistent for the past three decades, with an average GDP growth of 9.67%. It is very inappropriate to compare with Metternich's Austria.

3) In terms of economics, you failed to mention about China's 1.2 trillion foreign reserve. China adds $1 billion every day with its trade surplus and incoming investment.

4) You should also mention China's 51% saving rate, compared to -1.0% saving rate in the U.S.

Those are all very obvious facts. I am disappointed to see a MIT scholar who will choose to ignore those hard evidences in order to make up a story.

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» RE: MIT Scholar, please read. Posted by: EasterBunny

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A vignette regarding Red China from another AlterNet thread today that deserves repeating.
Posted by: HughScott on May 7, 2007 10:19 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In 1958, I was an Air Force intelligence officer in Washington D.C., where I worked with the CIA before it moved to Langley, VA.

That same year I married my soul mate, Jean Stevens. The best man at our wedding was my Air Force roommate, a member of the famed Yale Skull & Bones House of Lord. For privacy concerns, I will call my old roomie “Frank.”

I wrote “famed” House of Lord because it has six Bonesmen in its family history book along with the Yale graduation dates, as follows:

1854: George de Forest Lord
1898: Franklin Atkins Lord
1922: William Galey Lord
1929: Oswald Lord, husband of Mary Pillsbury of the Minnesota based Pillsbury Flour Corporation who was a delegate to the United Nations during the Eisenhower administration.
1949: Charles Edwin Lord, former Comptroller of the Currency, Department
of the Treasury
1959: Winston Lord, son of Oswald, Reagan ambassador to China.

With “Frank” Lord as my host, I met Winston after a Yale-Princeton football game in the company of another Yale preppy with a famous last name, Peter Duchin –- son of the great keyboard maestro, Eddy. Peter later became a masterful piano player in his own right.

Fast forward to 2005. That year after finishing my first nonfiction book, George Dub-ya Bush, THE PHONY FIGHTER PILOT, I began a sequel with the intention of investigating Shrub’s notorious Yale fraternity, Skull & Bones.

For help, I asked Frank Lord to arrange an interview for me with Winston as an anonymous S&B source. To my shocked surprise, not only did Frank turn me down, he issued a stern warning to leave the secret fraternity alone. Yeah, that would work, threatening a Vietnam veteran with a stubborn pilot personality

Suspicious of Winston Lord when he was the U.S. ambassador to China in the late 1980s, I read some of his speeches from that era. In one talk, he advocated favored nation trade status for Red China even though thousands of Chinese dissidents had been imprisoned and murdered after the Tianemen Square uprising.

Winston also assured audiences during the Reagan years that free trade agreements like NAFTA would be good for working Americans. A false promise, it turned out.

Challenged by Frank’s warning, I continued my investigation and eventually uncovered a PNAC connection to Freedom House, mentioned in my comment today to the Alternet article, "Who Won in Iraq."

Lo and behold, the chairman emeritus of the Freedom House Board of Directors was PNAC signatory Bette Bao Lord, famed Chinese author and prominent human rights activist – also the wife of Winston Lord. As soon as I saw her name, I knew why Frank threatened me.

The realization made me blow my stack. My first thought was, Screw you, Frank, and the high horse you rode in on!

I had good reason to be enraged. It was as clear as a Waterford wineglass why my best man and former friend told me not to investigate Skull & Bones. He was afraid I would eventually learn about Bette Bao’s connection to the rightwing subversive organization, PNAC.

Later that day, I found an example of Mrs. Lord’s forked tongue, two-faced social activism. It happened in 1997, after she addressed a Washington gathering of Chinese dissidents in exile and other protesters of the human rights violations in China. That evening, Bette attended a White House state dinner honoring their evil tormentor, Chinese President Jiang Zemin.

She later explained her duplicity as “choosing to show President Jiang that people who disagree in America are not threats to stability.” Yeah, right. Like Martin Luther King choosing to show national stability by giving one of his famous freedom speeches, then attending a KKK meeting afterwards.

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I disagree Chinese rise to great power is premature
Posted by: maychic.com on May 7, 2007 10:55 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Your article is insightful and eye opening.

However I believe it is flawed because of your belief that Chinese rise to great power is premature.

China had a great civilization thousands of years ago which predated many modern ones with the exception of the Babylonian, Egyptian and Hindu ones.

Besides, millions of Chinese lost their lives in Chairman Mao’s revolution.

So, their rise to greatness was not easy.

It has cost millions of human lives and a lot of sufferings.

I therefore conclude that their greatness is not premature. They deserve it.

Ikey Benney
mscsrrr.com

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Alternet Comments:

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One word describes this article: BULLSHIT!
Posted by: HughScott on May 7, 2007 5:16 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Enough said.

Hugh E. Scott, editor of the forthcoming JohnQPublic4PRESIDENT2008.com and King-George.biz, the only website with hardcopy proof of White House corruption.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Economics & the Rise of China
Posted by: Squarehead on May 7, 2007 5:54 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Economics & the Rise of China

The article was interesting, in a scholarly way. But I would like to question the offered 'potential financial crisis' of China. Accepting the GDP figures, $2,229 billion (China) & $12,455 Billion (USA), there seem to me to be underlying problems in the US economy; they are compounded by the obvious political, military & organisational incompetence of your administration. (As evidenced by Iraq, Hurricane Katrina, the kleptocracy) From a point (in say 1945) of being the admired country in the world, you have sunk to being probably the most disliked & feared.

China, working from this base level, of 18% of the GDP of USA, has 4 times the population; even accepting the problems of the poverty, the demographic problems, the democratic struggle & oppression, they have a geat deal more potential from a viewpoint of a few years forward.

I remember ~ 17 years ago, when Japan was at a height of economic success, Japanese consumer goods seemed to be everywhere; and they were only exporting 42% of their GDP. So they were consuming 58%. Its got a lot of implications, 1,200 million consumers

I suggest that the military preparedness & spending of USA is a Trojan horse, soaking up your capital, of all kinds, social, political, money. [$52000 per hour of flying time for a Chinook, ~ $2,000,000 per soldier, per annum. As you might say, 'Do the math'

Personally, I look forward with some glee to the collapse of US economic & military power (All wars are won by materiel) The Chinese Pragmatist Party cannot be any worse.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» A few points . . . Posted by: MAD
» RE: A few points . . . Posted by: asilsfable
» RE: A few points . . . Posted by: MAD

Comments are closed-

fear of failure and culture of shame.
Posted by: albrechtkrausse on May 7, 2007 6:36 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Loss of face, etc. Is tied to Confucian thought and still influences people in China to a great extent although 'officially' the Party has replaced his values with 'class conscious' values. One is taught not to embarass their family. Often you get 'one shot' at a position or in school. If you fail you will be reassigned. Not necessarily blamed (because it shows more damage to the person that promoted you. His bad judgement. He put you in a position that was not meant for you.) There is a fatalistic attitude but one where also people are, historically, taken care of, as it is acceptable/necessary to fulfill all roles in society. Also there is fatalism that China WILL, once again, be the premier power/society in the world and they have a longterm view of history and this is an abberation and the Middle Kingdom will once again take the rightful place.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Thoughts on China and the Impending Global Meltdown . . .
Posted by: MAD on May 7, 2007 8:05 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This article was a little short on specifics and rather long on assumptions but the Metternich analogy was quite astute. We should all be concerned with the socio-economic goings-on in China as it may very well become the impetus for economic decline in our time. One things is now certain: the People's Party is no longer "behind the wheel" and the Chinese economy has barreled past overheating and is approaching "scorching". One would think that economic growth eclipsing 11% is a good thing but when you lose the ability to put the brakes on this level of growth, you're headed for trouble.

The (incredibly!) excess liquidity still sloshing around China has lead to very sloppy lending practices not entirely dissimilar from those that took place in the US subprime lending fiasco. Moreover, most Chinese in Beijing, Shanghai, Guangzhou (and increasingly, simple bumpkins) are playing the market, investing in Chinese shares which are overvalued by perhaps as much as 80%. The US, Europe and even Latin America would like to see the Chinese spending on Whirlpool dishwashers, Cuisinart blenders, Krupps coffee makers and other durable goods from Brazil or Chile instead of socking away cash or buying already overvalued Chinese stock, but alas this is not to be. Remember our .com meltdown? China is very much heading in the same direction.

All these significant factors when taken together with China's soon-to-be "World's Leading Polluter" status, overpopulation and rigid governmental structure does not bode well for China, nor for the rest of us. Every country on earth displays economic weaknesses of some sort, it's just that China's are amplified greatly because we depend on them as part of the "Conveyor System". The conveyor system functions thusly: The Chinese produce cheap goods that we don't really need but cherish nonetheless. In turn, they stockpile export proceeds and buy US government issued debt that is loaned out in ponzi schemes (you know, subprime lending fiasco) thereby keeping American idiots in cheap $$$ in order to buy more cheap, poor quality Chinese crap or overvalued real-estate.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

cherry picking evidence by so-called "MIT" expert
Posted by: joel23 on May 7, 2007 8:07 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Just one glaring error here (of many) is the absence of an appreciation of the actual debt weakness of the American Economy. The claim is that our economy is stronger because our GDP number is so much higher than China's. But the fact is that our GDP number is entirely driven by massive debt, of which China is one of the main creditor nations. If you join this reality to a recent recognition in the Wall Street Journal by a major hedge fund manager, that there is a currency "bubble" of significant size in the world economy, and just like the dot.com bubble and the housing bubble it will have to burst (a "bubble" exists because market values in shares and currencies and derivatives are all too high, due to unrestrained specutlation). All this means is that when the world currency bubble bursts, our debtor position will be most exposed for the fatal economic weakness it is, which makes the rest of the article based upon a completely flawed foundation (an intellectual house built on sand). China will emerge dominant from this crisis, and America will be converted to third world status.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

garbage in -- garbage out
Posted by: shannonwhite on May 7, 2007 9:32 AM   
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The article states the Chinese military budget is over $100 billion. This contradicts List of countries and federations by military expenditures which puts the number at $45.5 billion -- less than the UK, France, Germany and Japan. The size of China's defense budget is controversial, and subject to a lot of spin from the same guys that brought you Iraqi WMDs. Shame on this author, Liselotte Odgaard, for not acknowledging this controversy, and for using the high-end of the estimate. Based on this dishonest use of numbers, I recommend disregarding the rest of the article. Propaganda works best when the lie being propagated is a throw-away remark rather than the subject of the article. Remember all those supposedly anti-war articles pre-invasion that accepted the Bush admin facts.

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Where is the outrage over Tibet?
Posted by: lessbread on May 7, 2007 1:31 PM   
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China orders resettlement of thousands of Tibetans

ZENGSHOL, Tibet - In a massive campaign that recalls the socialist engineering of an earlier era, the Chinese government has relocated some 250,000 Tibetans - nearly one-tenth of the population - from scattered rural hamlets to new "socialist villages," ordering them to build new housing largely at their own expense and without their consent.

Goldstein noted that the settling of Han Chinese in Tibet's major cities already has weakened the influence of traditional Tibetan elites. "The cities are a loss," said Goldstein, referring to demography from a Tibetan point of view. "The last hope is to keep the villages intact. If there's a battleground for Tibetan identity, it's in the rural areas."

And the rural areas, at least in appearance on a reporter's 11-day tour, are coming under ever greater Chinese control.


And why are US companies working to kill China's new labor law?

China’s labour law raises US concerns

Undue Influence: Corporations Gain Ground in Battle over China's New Labor Law

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MIT Scholar, please read.
Posted by: speedy on May 7, 2007 6:23 PM   
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1) Why can't you use Parity Purchasing Power (PPP) to compare China and U.S.? We all know that Chinese currency is undervalued by at least 30%. The fact is that, if hair cut in U.S. costs $10, it will cost $1 in China. This is generally true if you travel to China and stay away from expensive hotels.

2) China's rise has been mostly consistent for the past three decades, with an average GDP growth of 9.67%. It is very inappropriate to compare with Metternich's Austria.

3) In terms of economics, you failed to mention about China's 1.2 trillion foreign reserve. China adds $1 billion every day with its trade surplus and incoming investment.

4) You should also mention China's 51% saving rate, compared to -1.0% saving rate in the U.S.

Those are all very obvious facts. I am disappointed to see a MIT scholar who will choose to ignore those hard evidences in order to make up a story.

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» RE: MIT Scholar, please read. Posted by: EasterBunny

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A vignette regarding Red China from another AlterNet thread today that deserves repeating.
Posted by: HughScott on May 7, 2007 10:19 PM   
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In 1958, I was an Air Force intelligence officer in Washington D.C., where I worked with the CIA before it moved to Langley, VA.

That same year I married my soul mate, Jean Stevens. The best man at our wedding was my Air Force roommate, a member of the famed Yale Skull & Bones House of Lord. For privacy concerns, I will call my old roomie “Frank.”

I wrote “famed” House of Lord because it has six Bonesmen in its family history book along with the Yale graduation dates, as follows:

1854: George de Forest Lord
1898: Franklin Atkins Lord
1922: William Galey Lord
1929: Oswald Lord, husband of Mary Pillsbury of the Minnesota based Pillsbury Flour Corporation who was a delegate to the United Nations during the Eisenhower administration.
1949: Charles Edwin Lord, former Comptroller of the Currency, Department
of the Treasury
1959: Winston Lord, son of Oswald, Reagan ambassador to China.

With “Frank” Lord as my host, I met Winston after a Yale-Princeton football game in the company of another Yale preppy with a famous last name, Peter Duchin –- son of the great keyboard maestro, Eddy. Peter later became a masterful piano player in his own right.

Fast forward to 2005. That year after finishing my first nonfiction book, George Dub-ya Bush, THE PHONY FIGHTER PILOT, I began a sequel with the intention of investigating Shrub’s notorious Yale fraternity, Skull & Bones.

For help, I asked Frank Lord to arrange an interview for me with Winston as an anonymous S&B source. To my shocked surprise, not only did Frank turn me down, he issued a stern warning to leave the secret fraternity alone. Yeah, that would work, threatening a Vietnam veteran with a stubborn pilot personality

Suspicious of Winston Lord when he was the U.S. ambassador to China in the late 1980s, I read some of his speeches from that era. In one talk, he advocated favored nation trade status for Red China even though thousands of Chinese dissidents had been imprisoned and murdered after the Tianemen Square uprising.

Winston also assured audiences during the Reagan years that free trade agreements like NAFTA would be good for working Americans. A false promise, it turned out.

Challenged by Frank’s warning, I continued my investigation and eventually uncovered a PNAC connection to Freedom House, mentioned in my comment today to the Alternet article, "Who Won in Iraq."

Lo and behold, the chairman emeritus of the Freedom House Board of Directors was PNAC signatory Bette Bao Lord, famed Chinese author and prominent human rights activist – also the wife of Winston Lord. As soon as I saw her name, I knew why Frank threatened me.

The realization made me blow my stack. My first thought was, Screw you, Frank, and the high horse you rode in on!

I had good reason to be enraged. It was as clear as a Waterford wineglass why my best man and former friend told me not to investigate Skull & Bones. He was afraid I would eventually learn about Bette Bao’s connection to the rightwing subversive organization, PNAC.

Later that day, I found an example of Mrs. Lord’s forked tongue, two-faced social activism. It happened in 1997, after she addressed a Washington gathering of Chinese dissidents in exile and other protesters of the human rights violations in China. That evening, Bette attended a White House state dinner honoring their evil tormentor, Chinese President Jiang Zemin.

She later explained her duplicity as “choosing to show President Jiang that people who disagree in America are not threats to stability.” Yeah, right. Like Martin Luther King choosing to show national stability by giving one of his famous freedom speeches, then attending a KKK meeting afterwards.

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I disagree Chinese rise to great power is premature
Posted by: maychic.com on May 7, 2007 10:55 PM   
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Your article is insightful and eye opening.

However I believe it is flawed because of your belief that Chinese rise to great power is premature.

China had a great civilization thousands of years ago which predated many modern ones with the exception of the Babylonian, Egyptian and Hindu ones.

Besides, millions of Chinese lost their lives in Chairman Mao’s revolution.

So, their rise to greatness was not easy.

It has cost millions of human lives and a lot of sufferings.

I therefore conclude that their greatness is not premature. They deserve it.

Ikey Benney
mscsrrr.com

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