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In Aftermath of Va. Shooting, Ethnic Groups Prayed, 'Let It Be Some Other Asian'

By Andrew Lam, New America Media. Posted April 18, 2007.


As the country waited to learn the identity of the killer at Virginia Tech, Asian Americans held their breath, waiting to see if they would shoulder the spillover of blame for the acts of an individual.

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All across America, no doubt, non-Korean Asian-Americans are now heaving a sigh of relief. "Asian," after all, was the four-alarm-fire word we saw throughout the day after the shootings that took the lives of 33 people at Virginia Tech. The shooter was "Asian," the news reports said. But who was this "Asian" exactly?

Before the news identified the killer as Cho Seung-hui, a 23-year-old English major from South Korea, all ethnic backgrounds were up for grabs. A friend from a small college town on the East Coast, who is Chinese, called to say: "Please, please let it be some other Asian. We'll be in deep if it's Chinese."

In a popular Vietnamese chatroom, Vietnamese college students were writing to each other to speculate. One said, "I have a bad feeling. It might be Mi't (Vietnamese slang for Vietnamese)." Others wrote in advising each other on what to do.

The blogosphere buzzed with speculation on the identity of the killer. The waiting game was as tense as waiting to find out who the next American Idol might be. On another blog, debbieschlussel.com, Schlussel speculated that the shooter could be a Muslim Pakistani. "Why am I speculating that the 'Asian' gunman is a Pakistani Muslim? Because law enforcement and the media strangely won't tell us more specifically who the gunman is."

A Muslim Pakistani friend, an engineer who refused to have his name mentioned, emailed me to say, "If he's a Paki and Muslim, we might all just pack up and go home. I'm praying that he is some other Asian."

Let it be some other Asian! This was the prayer among so many Asian-American communities. And not just Asians.

"Every time there's an incident like this, every ethnic group is on pins and needles," said Khalil Abdullah, an African-American colleague. An Anglo shooter may be an individual, a loner, but God forbid if a person of color goes on a shooting rampage. His whole tribe would be implicated. "I still recall my aunts when President Kennedy was assassinated. They were praying that it wasn't a Negro." Many ethnic communities do not feel that they belong to the core of the American fabric, Abdullah added. "The action of an individual can cancel out the good image of an entire group."

Case in point: A Virginia Tech student and Chinese-American blogger was initially thought by many bloggers to be the culprit. He was reputed to have a penchant for guns and many photos of himself posing with his rifles. More than 200,000 people have visited his sites since the shooting and many left angry, racist epithets against Chinese. He told ABC, "Right now, pretty much the Internet thinks it is me. ... I am just interested in trying to clear my name."

As a Vietnamese-American, I have always found the word "Asian" to be too generic to be a useful identifier. Asia is the largest continent with the largest and most diverse population in the world. In Asia, people identify themselves by their national or ethnic origin, not as "Asian."

Yet, in the aftermath of the Virginia Tech massacre, many of us -- including myself -- used the word to refer to any other "Asian" besides us.

In the end it wouldn't have worked for very long. To be a minority in America, even in the 21st century, is to be always on trial. An evil act by one indicts the entire community. Whoever doubts this need only look at the spike in hate crimes against Muslims and South Asian communities after 9/11.

After the shootings, my best friend, a Korean-American lawyer in Washington, D.C., felt in his bones that somehow a Korean was responsible. He didn't know why. But, "one thing's for sure now," he said, "we can safely lay the model minority theme to rest."

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See more stories tagged with: asian, ethnic, virginia tech, cho seung-hui

Andrew Lam is a writer and editor with New America Media and author of "Perfume Dreams: Reflections on the Vietnamese Diaspora".

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pathetic
Posted by: Alec Freeman on Apr 18, 2007 2:02 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In the midst of this awful event, we still have to deal with this racist nonsense! I am indeed concerned about the physical and emotional welfare of Asian Americans, particularly male Asian American college students, as the aftershocks of this horrible tragedy continue. Moreover, prejudices do not stop with race or ethnicity. I am sure many gay people are breathing sighs of relief, as we learn that the killer stalked female students, indicating plausibility that the murderer was likely heterosexual. I could see the headline in "The New York Post": "Campus Perv Kills 32."

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» RE: pathetic Posted by: bison2
» RE: pathetic Posted by: EasterBunny
» RE: pathetic Posted by: Fantasyartist
Weird
Posted by: kepstein7777 on Apr 18, 2007 3:38 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
While the news was unfolding, I pictured an oriental person for some reason. I hadn't really thought that Asian could mean Indian, Pakistani, etc.

Interesting point about the different ethnic groups hoping it wasn't one of "them." If it's a white guy, it must be some psychotic loner. But if it's a Muslim, he must be part of something bigger, and all Muslims will get dragged away, spied on and locked up...all over again.

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» RE: Weird Posted by: droe
Did the murderer's race matter?
Posted by: colinmeister on Apr 18, 2007 3:57 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What difference does the race of a madman make? Maybe it is just a standard American reaction to try to blame a "Foreigner" for every bad thing that happens, as in "It couldn't be a nice American white boy."

Looking back over the years, it seems like murderers and terrorists come from a number of different backgrounds. Obviously the 9/11 terrorists, if we believe the govermnet, were Sunni Arabs. The second biggest terrorist attack in the USA was carried out by a white boy from Michigan and his white friend. The Columbine bowlers were white boys from Colorado.

"Asian" seems like a very loose term to describe people from the largest continent on earth. I am not up on political correctness, but there have to be more narrow terms to describe people from different parts of Asia.

I was in a conversation with a co-worker a few years ago, and he asked me if I liked "Asian" food. I told him I very much liked Indian food, that I enjoyed Japanese and Thai food, but that I didn't care for Chinese food.

He seemed to be using "Asian" purely to talk about Chinese food, which I found bizarre, since business like "Ming's take-away" always describe their cuisine as "Chinese".

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» RE: Did the murderer's race matter? Posted by: xconservative
» Well, it's better than "Caucasian". Posted by: colinmeister
Everybody xcept WASPs....
Posted by: Zemiti on Apr 18, 2007 4:01 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Sure, seems there is one Anglo-Saxon (Caucasian) group on one side in America, with the rest being all the other ethnic groups (commonly referred to as minorities). This is typical US; history bears this racial (group and class) classification out, this is a legacy which is as much a part of us as bounty hunting is. We have mastered the art of throwing the baby out with the bath water, let alone collective punishment. What a shameless shining example we must be to the world! Yet we wonder where all the hatred and anger comes from?

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» RE: verybody xcept WASPs.... Posted by: psychochurch
» RE: verybody xcept WASPs.... Posted by: Bozwell
Race is not an issue
Posted by: Logic's Edge on Apr 18, 2007 4:05 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why is this being raised?

If we have five Asian shooters in a row, then maybe it would deserve a closer look. But it's too obvious that there was no racial motivation here. Just someone beaten down by society and going nuts because of it.

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» RE: ace is not an issue Posted by: dauphin534
» Flavor Flav Posted by: Jimbo
» RE: ace is not an issue Posted by: Landbaron
You mean he didn't listen to Satanic Music...
Posted by: cordas on Apr 18, 2007 4:20 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Whenever a tragedy like this happens the media likes to whip up a storm around whatever scraps of infomation they can find and starts pointing their collective fingures at whatever minority comes up.

Does it matter if the person is Asian, Black, Listens to Heavy Metal or Gangster Rap, has ginger hair or a 3rd nipple?

The simple answer is yes, as the Media will pick up on that fact and blame that group, politicians will gladly jump on this bandwagon as it gives them credibility (well face time on the tv and in newspapers / magazines). This will be joined by the usual gang of hate mongers who will have a new hate group for a week or 2.

I remember after one such tragedy in the UK one of our tabloid papers created a list of 10 things to know if your neighbour / son / work colleague was about to pull out a gun and start blasting, just about everyone I knew at the time fitted at least 7 out of the 10 criteria, and suprise suprise non of those people have gone on to be murders, and most have never even been in a fight (whether started by themselves or others).

All I can say is ignore the media and if you hear someone you know spouting off rubbish try and calm them down a bit, and point out that this tragedy was commited by one person and not any specific group of people.

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Segregated Nation
Posted by: Urstrly on Apr 18, 2007 5:04 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Americans who live in primarily white areas are surprisingly ignorant about race. Why bother with the differences between Chinese, Koreans, Indians, etc. when you can cover them all in one "not from around here" label. Stereotypes make it easier for many people to write off people who are different, and you have to wonder what this young man experienced before he went off the deep end. Some things we know for sure—there were two killings last August in Blackburg, there had been recent bomb threats, and police were convinced that the first two killings this week were an "isolated instance." Because, I think, they were sure that mass murders don't happen in predominantly white, quiet communities. Even after Columbine and Oklahoma City, we persist in these notions. Talk about a false stereotype.

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» RE: Segregated Nation Posted by: bison2
» RE: Segregated Nation Posted by: Logic's Edge
Left at it again!!!
Posted by: Conservasaurus on Apr 18, 2007 5:08 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Leave it to a liberal to spew divisive racial junk in the wake of such a tragic event.. That local community is pulling together in an incredible fashion and this author is still trying to use it for liberal agenda..

They never cease to amaze me!

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» Right is Wrong Yet Again Posted by: JMorse
» RE: ight is Wrong Yet Again Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Left at it again!!! Posted by: Jimbo
» RE: Left at it again!!! Posted by: The Populist
» RE: Left at it again!!! Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Left at it again!!! Posted by: ezilla
» RE: Left at it again!!! Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Left at it again!!!amazingly stupid Posted by: Conservasaurus
It sounds like the group with the most to fear is "quiet" people.
Posted by: zyxwvut on Apr 18, 2007 5:31 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Introverts beware! The witch hunt is on.

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Whites have done the most
Posted by: Krain61 on Apr 18, 2007 5:39 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
killings in this country over the years as far as schools and going postal or micky d's or companies.
People have to realize that in this world anyone could be the next nut case. What about that uni bomber guy? White again.
Yes I'm white also. But no I'm not your next nut case.
Look at the Oklahoma bombing..White..most school shooting were almost all white people. leave the Asians alone.

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Would Be Hero.
Posted by: douglashoyt on Apr 18, 2007 5:48 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If Mr. Hui did this while a member of the US Army in Iraq against the "insurgencies," he would be a hero and given decorations and kudos.

In Iraq, the "innocent" victims would be called "collateral damage."

It is only our prespective which is flawed, huh?

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» Dumbass... Posted by: Scientz
» RE: Would Be Hero. Posted by: bison2
» RE: Would Be Hero. Posted by: ezilla
» RE: Would Be Hero. Posted by: timebomb734
Look beyond the current event.
Posted by: WorldViewer on Apr 18, 2007 6:01 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Once again, the power elite uses every opportunity to divide and conquer us through the media. What difference does it make that a mass-murderer is white, black, Korean, Chinese, blue, red or purple? Let’s look beyond the current event and try to understand what makes HUMAN BEINGS do such things. Then perhaps we can find some common ground to solve the terrible mess in which we find ourselves in this world.

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the other backlash may be against atheists
Posted by: counterpoint on Apr 18, 2007 6:14 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm worried the campus massacre in Virginia will somehow be associated with atheism. Today is only the second day after the shooting, and little has been made public. But an AP wire story noted: "A law enforcement official who read Cho's note described it Tuesday as a typed, eight-page rant against rich kids and religion. [...]
Cho indicated in his letter that the end was near and that there was a deed to be done, the official said. He also expressed disappointment in his own religion, and made several references to Christianity, the official said."
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=9604940

My heartless opinion is that the mere existence of such senseless killings simply say that mental illness and freely available weapons of mass killings (under $600 for a gun and ammo, including tax, what a bargain!) are a recipe for disaster, and that a deity who doesn't give a hoot about innocents is either evil or, more likely, non existent.
But if the killer can be labeled an atheist these more rational arguments will likely be ignored, and some of the rage may get directed against people like me who don't buy into supernatural fairy tales.

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as a muslim american
Posted by: nebgirl on Apr 18, 2007 6:45 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
as a muslim american, whenever a crime makes national headlines i live in fear the perpetrator will be a muslim. i am relieved to know i am not the only one with those feelings. as soon as i heard about the shootings i realized to my shame, that the first and strongest emotion i felt was fear that it would be a muslim who had committed the shootings. the second emotion was sorrow for the victims, they resided uneasily together within me until i learned the identity of the shooter. it makes me angry that i am somehow held accountable for the behavior of complete strangers.

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» RE: as a muslim american Posted by: bison2
» RE: as a muslim american Posted by: ezilla
» RE: as a muslim american Posted by: shanaza
psychos come in all colors...
Posted by: xenacat on Apr 18, 2007 6:51 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
it is interesting how the media has siezed upon the shooter's race as a distraction. Both conservative and liberal factions have their own spin on this tragic situation and I find that both groups are shifting the focus to issues that are incidential to the actual event. I be very surprised if EVERYONE of Asian descent was on thier knees praying that it wasn't one of their "kind". That is akin to saying that whole state of Texas was holding their collective breath hoping it wasn't another Texan... in other words, ridiculus. The problems here are not so much racial as they are emotional and psychological properties of the young man who comitted this terrible act. Mass murderers are colorless - let's look at the personal factors that caused this young man to be so troubled and act out in such a violent way. Once again, race is the least of the worries here and it is a disservice to the Asian community and the broader culture to narrow the focus so totally to one biological fact about the shooter.

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Black people cringe too when we watch the news
Posted by: cinattra on Apr 18, 2007 6:58 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have to agree with the author on this one. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say I'm pretty sure older Black Americans still cringe when they're watching the news and particular crimes that have come to be associated with Black Americans are announced on tv.

Now it's all muddled. Murder-suicides used to be the domain of Anglo Americans (no I don't have numbers to back this up only anecdotal observation of watching the news) but now that crime at least in the news occurs across all people groups. Pedophilla and other sex crimes against children is another one that so far seems to be the domain of Anglos mainly probably because they totally out number all other groups. If not now but in the near future I'm sure we will see more Black preachers and maybe teachers among others being caught.

Biology says that we are all the same no matter the color of skin we have. Culture and how we categorize ourselves says different.

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A Different Perspective
Posted by: the islander on Apr 18, 2007 7:07 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It was an American -- I think he was a marine -- Timothy MacVeigh -- who blew up a child care center. Did we blame the marine corps?

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» RE: A Different Perspective Posted by: douglashoyt
» RE: A Different Perspective Posted by: gazooks
» RE: A Different Perspective Posted by: vangogh69
» McVeigh Was A Patsy Posted by: JMorse
» RE: A Different Perspective Posted by: gazooks
» RE: A Different Perspective Posted by: bison2
At least America is starting to talk and think more about race/ethnicity nowadays...
Posted by: Wassermann on Apr 18, 2007 7:09 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
ANY and ALL discussions of race/ethnicity are FULLY welcome in my eyes.

I welcome the discussion; it's a neglected (almost taboo) topic in America, so let us open up the discussion and spread it WIDE. In the past it was openly discussed, but now discussion about race/ethnicity in America has gone mostly 'underground' (or internet-bound).

For instance, in this American democracy where everything is just so 'fair' and 'equal,' there is a tiny but VERY powerful minority (a minority of only about 3% of the U.S. population) that controls more wealth and has more political and economic influence than ALL of the African-Americans AND Hispanics COMBINED, along with a great deal of the European-Americans also living in the United States. So just who is this tiny ethnic minority that wields so much financial and political clout in the USA, often to the detriment of the MAJORITY in this 'great' American DEMOCRACY? Oh, I guess that's a taboo subject too.

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Spreading paranoia instead of outrage.
Posted by: HughScott on Apr 18, 2007 7:14 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Before reading Lam’s article, it never occurred to me that America’s Asian community would be frightened by some kind of backlash from the Virginia shooting, worried that the killer might be native to their original country.

If, in fact, the paranoia exists -- Lam offered no proof -- then all he’s done with his article is spread more fear among U.S. Asians, like President Bush tries to do every day with all Americans.

The next time Lam writes, he should try spreading outrage over the GIs who die daily in Iraq. The rest of the media is certainly not doing it.

Hugh E. Scott, editor of King-George.biz -- the only website with hardcopy proof of White House corruption.

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Prescription drugs connected to school shootings
Posted by: MartianBachelor on Apr 18, 2007 7:18 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's perhaps too early to comment because the data is still real sketchy, but the only relevant group IMO to which Cho belonged was 'anti-depressant drug user'.

It's barely been mentioned in all the coverage and related chattering, which is understandable and quite predictable considering how much money they get from big pharma. They haven't even reported yet which of these dangerous drugs he's been on. Prozac? Zoloft? Which? When? Maybe the toxicology results haven't been released yet, but somewhere out there there's someone who prescribed these. In the wake of what happened to Anna Nicole just weeks ago you'd think the media would be all over this aspect of the story.

And in spite of him apparently being on these drugs, they're still describing him as being 'depressed'. I thought these drugs were the remedy for this condition.

I'm also confused that the reports talk about the efforts of the English prof who was disturbed enough about his writings to go to some lengths to get him into counseling, but I thought these drugs were only prescribed in conjunction with the involvement of such a 'mental health professional'. At this point the story just doesn't add up.

I'm sorry, but race, ethnicity, cultural background, religion - whatever - seem like very peripheral issues at this point.

Antidepressant drugs may cause aggressive, violent behavior in youth

Prescription drugs are connected to school shootings and other violence, yet more drugs are touted as the solution

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» brief addendum Posted by: MartianBachelor
Doubleplus Ungood
Posted by: apophenia_monkey on Apr 18, 2007 7:21 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"By 2050—earlier, probably—all real knowledge of Oldspeak will have disappeared. The whole literature of the past will have been destroyed. Chaucer, Shakespeare, Milton, Byron—they'll exist only in Newspeak versions, not merely changed into something different, but actually contradictory of what they used to be. Even the literature of the Party will change. Even the slogans will change. How could you have a slogan like "freedom is slavery" when the concept of freedom has been abolished? The whole climate of thought will be different. In fact there will be no thought, as we understand it now. Orthodoxy means not thinking—not needing to think. Orthodoxy is unconsciousness."

Orwell, George (1949). Nineteen Eighty-Four.

according to the author of this article, we all need a stint in room 101 it seems...

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emeritus prof Stuart Fischoff
Posted by: sfischo on Apr 18, 2007 7:44 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is not an unexpected reaction by Asians. Most minorities ins imilar situations respond that way. it's so common in fact that eminent psychologist, Gordon Allport, in his classic book The Nature of Prejudice, called it one of the "traits due to victimization." He called this particular reaction one of "collective conscience." Jews are always doing this. Many vowed never to vote for a Jewish candidate for U.S. President because he might screw up and make it really bad for Jews. Clearly the groups that are susceptible vary from country to country as minority status varies. Majorities are individuals while minorities are groups. It's the way of all sociological flesh.

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EXACTLY WHAT 'SIGNS' ARE PEOPLE LOOKING FOR ?
Posted by: VZEQICVA on Apr 18, 2007 8:01 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This boy was an accident waiting to happen. One professor took a personal interest in him to no avail. Just because there are no druges or alcohol involved doesn't mean something else might not be wrong. That's where the school should have acted. They have a responsibility to the other students. Not much said of parents. There would be if they were divorced. The school officials didn't want to make waves. I'm sure they have their reasons. Thanks, ANNA

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Believe it!
Posted by: The Populist on Apr 18, 2007 8:01 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Plutocrats are loving this. This can be seen as a mini 9/11. More intolerance for "those" people. More security, more survaillance. The Oligarchy has been using violence since 1846 as a part of system of government.

Violence and racism are as American as apple pie. Believe it. And the Plutocrats use these tools to divide the working men and women of this country and the world.

Los Populistos Blog

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So ridiculous
Posted by: ateo on Apr 18, 2007 8:13 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Every time a white guy goes out and shoots up a building I don't worry about a back lash against white people.

Any Asian person that feared anything from the fact that one person who happened to be of the same national origin as them did something is pretty stupid.

Asians have a lot of positive capital in the U.S. to burn through before anyone starts to question their contributions to society.

Americans are in love with being afraid for no reason, that's the truth of the matter. People love to play the victim role because it gets them attention they would otherwise not have had. You say Asians in America were afraid? I say they were secretly hoping it was one of their brethren because of all the attention, sound bytes, interviews, and ignorant articles like this it would produce. Making them feel special when in reality the odds of someone even calling an Asian an insulting name because of this is somewhere around 0.

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» RE: So ridiculous Posted by: alterpa123
» RE: So ridiculous Posted by: Skills83
» RE: So ridiculous Posted by: shanaza
» RE: So ridiculous Posted by: anonymous black writer
» it is ridiculous Posted by: EasterBunny
» RE: it is ridiculous Posted by: anonymous black writer
» RE: it is ridiculous Posted by: EasterBunny
» RE: it is ridiculous Posted by: anonymous black writer
So what's "Asian"?
Posted by: outpost12156 on Apr 18, 2007 8:23 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
One day while I was in a very long winded EEOC 'training' session where it was explained that all people were conviently placed into certain race category boxes, I had the audacity to ask: "So if your from east of the Euphrates, your Asian?" The trainers were not pleased, and I got somewhat taken down a peg or two for making such a glib remark. But really. The word Asian ought to be banned as a descriptive for such a wide group of ethnicities. There are vaste differences between all of the peoples that are generally clumped into this group, and it is just not fair to try to do that. I think this is more of an American trait than otherwise.

And even if he was South Korean, so what? He was a person who evidently had issues and problems that he couldn't work out and either did not seek help or the help was not forthcoming. It could have been anyone. He was one person not a whole of an ethnic group.

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» RE: So what's "Asian"? Posted by: JMorse
» RE: So what's "Asian"? Posted by: vangogh69
» RE: So what's "Asian"? Posted by: JMorse
» RE: So what's "Asian"? Posted by: anonymous black writer
» The Judgement of The Masses Posted by: JMorse
Situation, everything gonna be alright, our Terrorist Dictator brings calm to Virginia Tech.
Posted by: symcokid on Apr 18, 2007 8:56 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That incident at Virginia Tech would barely be noticed in Iraq, hell, that's an hourly occurence over there that we are helping intensely to exacerbate. Bush should be concentrating on bringing normalcy back to New Orleans and getting out Troops out of Iraq!!!

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Hollywood
Posted by: Skills83 on Apr 18, 2007 9:34 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That's a very good point. His plays were "twisted" but Hollywood pumps out a "Chainsaw Massacre" practically every three weeks. I've always hated horror movies and gore fests because I think they desensitize the public. I've never understood why people need to PAY MONEY to see that, in spite of the world we live in.

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mental cases at schools are hard to deal with
Posted by: counterpoint on Apr 18, 2007 10:03 AM   
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The reasons have to do with administrative constraints. I've been close to a case of suicide at MIT. There had been ominous signs but since the person who later killed herself was an adult (ie profs and dorm parents could not legally alert the parents) and no 'hard' reasons for expelling or hospitalisation existed nothing could be done exept on a person to person level. There had been several friends and faculty who had tried to reach out to that woman but in the end she killed herself exactly when it seemed like she had improved. Actually, it is quite frequent that depressed people attempt suicide when they are emerging from deep depression and are becoming more active again.

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Not to pick on pop culture, but...
Posted by: vangogh69 on Apr 18, 2007 10:08 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Didn't Hollywood just release a (propaganda) film called 300, glorifying warfare? Or a few weeks ago, Grindhouse, a trashy flick glorifying violence? How many nukes have gone off on that series "24" already? I mean, culturally speaking, we love violence in the US. Also, we're currently at war with two nations and hear an (admittedly) terrible headline about it everyday (if you check the news). All the while, the survivors of a hurricane are left to rot in trailer parks and the politicians give themselves raises for a job well done. Since when do we value life in this country? Oh, I forgot, when it's in the womb because once it's out, it's all "good luck and get the fuck out."

I only bring this up to point out how, as a society, the US has been inhumane/misanthropic/nihilistic/crushing culturally, socially, physically, and psychologically for years. Only a truly deluded nation could have a leader who speaks of his country (the US) bringing "freedom" to another country while his own has a long record of genocide and slavery which ended not before the UK's, but AFTER! Are we then really surprised that tragedies like this happen with this culture of violence we've nurtured?

Sorry, what was the topic? LOL, my two cents.

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Group Think
Posted by: redbrownandblueparty on Apr 18, 2007 10:15 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I admit to group think when I first heard it. Now I always wonder whether this is another government engineered manipulated media event. In this case, thank Godus, it isn't. We are conditioned to displace judgements from individuals to groups. It distracts from individual responsibility, like our own. If taking anti-depressants contributed to the act, how about our support or passive compliance with the money-driven big pharma drug pushers? How many of us as individuals benefit as stockholders, bondholders or just plain savings account holders from big pharma. We have individual responsibility in some degree, no matter how small, if we follow the money. The racist card is seen by the lack of backlash/group think against whites. Was there a group backlash against Timothy MacVeigh or Oswald because they were white? Imagine if they had been non-white, how deeply imbedded in the consciousness that would have been. Look how the government sponsored 911 uses group think to make dark skinned terrorists the enemy. An interesting sidelight to this discussion is the suggestion that groups actually like the attention they get. At first blush, I thought the idea ridiculous but now I believe it may be a half truth. It may also apply to the shooter, who may be used it to call attention to himself, the proverbial cry for help. It is a highly symbolic event, which the media loves for financial benefits, and many of us secretly do too. To the degree we don't resist government sponsored terror such as what is happening in Iraq to fatten shareholders pocketbooks here, we are shooters of innocent people too. The RedBrownBlue party advocates for social justice and individual responsiblity to prevent atrocities whether in Iraq or Virginia. They are quite different but share some disturbing similarities.

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Study group formations/ Social Psychology
Posted by: psychochurch on Apr 18, 2007 10:54 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The larger problem is how and why we go about forming groups, and how our "group" provides us with identity/purpose/direction, etc...group formations are severe and extremely dangerous but a fact of human life....Once safely secured in your own "in-group", everybody else becomes part of another "out-group".....members of the out-group are typecasted, which is always based on stereotypical thinking (heuristics).....this automatic thinking is used to reduce stress in an information-overloaded-society, and not normally considered racist, even through it always distinguishes itself this way......We must make the study of Social Psychology mandatory in both high school and college...in our diverse society, we all need to be aware of how groups form, and why they end up being destructive......education really is the key!!!!

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We are part of the problem!
Posted by: HungLe on Apr 18, 2007 10:57 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think Adrew Lam brought up a good point. Such feeling does indeed exist in Asian community. Being a Vietname-American, when a gang of Vietnamese held innocent people hostage at Good Guys store in CA in 1991, I felt vividly upset at them. At that time, I felt that those guys did not deserve to be in this country. There are many Vietnameses risking their own life trying to escape communist regime. Those dying at sea are more deserved to be here than the "bad guys". At the same time, I have to admit that I do feel good when there are suscess stories of Vietnamese people in the media. It likes a knife that can cut both sides. When you associate yourselft or your community with success stories of inviduals, then you open yourself to bad feelings when bad news come. We, Asian or non-white, are part of the perception problem. Noone but us can correct it.

I do not know how "white" people felt when Timothy McVeigh blew up the federal building in Oklahoma? Did they try to decode his last name to associate him as Irish, German, French to distance themselve from him? I don't know. If the media simply reported the killer as "Asian", if you are Asian, do you think you will not try to decode his last name just to feel good yourself? The perception problem comes from both sides: white and non-white.

I have found myself a way our of this problem. When I hear news about Vietnamese killer. I just tell myseft: the killer is a Vietnamese. I am a Vietnamese too, but I am not him. When I hear a suscess story of a Vietnamese, I use it to motivate myself to work harder no more or less. Quite frankly, I still find myself once a while trapped in the circle of self-destruction again.

The perception does exist. Everyone should find a way to solve it.

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"Asians" panicking over nothing ??
Posted by: zipper696 on Apr 18, 2007 11:23 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I don't think so.

Let's recall the aftermath of 9/11 when so many "Arab looking" guys got attacked - and a Sikh (!!) was murdered simply because he wore a turban and was therefore "an arab".
Sadly the great mass of average Americans simply cannot tell races apart (except that is black and white) and US based Asians had a right to be apprehensive.

As an aside; Japanese, Chinese, Korean and Vietnamese are correctly ORIENTALS, only Indians and Pakistanis should be referred to as ASIANS.

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Witch Hunt?
Posted by: hotlipsin61 on Apr 18, 2007 11:37 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Now that we know who the shooter was, let's withhold our judgment to associate one person with another group just because he was this or that. His race was a non-factor. He was a "problem child" who finally had enough and decided to kill people.
If we're quick to lambaste a group of people because one committed an act like this is not a characteristic of an entire race. He acted out of scorn and bitterness to whatever was going on inside of him. Let's not begin a witch hunt.

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before calling people stupid for being afraid
Posted by: nebgirl on Apr 18, 2007 12:09 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
before calling people stupid for being afraid that the person who commits a horrendous murder might belong to their religious or ethnic group, try to understand their point of view. they know retaliatory hate crimes can (and in the past have been) unleashed against them or their community. this is not an exercise in paranoia. it is reality in this country. after 9/11 people i know personally were beaten up because they were muslim. in other parts of the country, people were killed and there are plenty of people out there willing to spread hatred against anyone they perceive as different.

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» 9/11 was totally different Posted by: EasterBunny
30 minutes of CNN
Posted by: DaBear on Apr 18, 2007 12:17 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Then I threw up. The level of pathalogical drivel posing as "coverage" was overwhelming. The same meme-buttons keep getting hit... loner, troubled, didn't have a girlfriend, working class family, legal alien, Asian, etc. Particularly disturbing after the sickening "host" demeanor, the "exclusive interview" with Cho's "roommates"... a couple of pretty nasty rich white boys... all too familiar. I can just imagine their "efforts" and "offers" of friendship to the lone non-white in the suite... uh huh.

Also interesting no one is talking about any diagnoses given at the "mental health clinic" he "voluntarily" committed himself to in 2005. What kind of clinic, one of those Fundamentalist pray and Jesus will save you office fronts or a genuine psych ward with a track record of successful treatment? What meds was he on? Seems like it's easier to leak a badly written play (that reads like a typical morning page entry from someone with issues) than to leak the name of his meds.

All this simply furthers my belief that 'Merkuh has no idea how to deal appropriately with mental health. It is utterly unsurprising this happened, horrific as it is. What's surprising is that it isn't more commonplace. Just like post Columbine, 9/11, etc., I'm sure we'll see a raft of repressive and utterly stoopid responses from "officials" followed by more of the same: demonization of anyone quiet, introverted, attention-different, non-hetero, non-white, artistic, angry, non-rich and so on. Meanwhile people who need help won't get it, bullies will go back to bullyin', the rich will feel safe after a while and everything will grind on.

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» RE: 30 minutes of CNN Posted by: anonymous black writer
» RE: 30 minutes of CNN Posted by: Logic's Edge
» Hysteria in Colorado Posted by: zyxwvut
» RE: You Only Needed 5 To Sound Like A Moron . . . Posted by: anonymous black writer
» "Legal Alien" Posted by: polyquat50
Meanwhile . . . in Baghdad
Posted by: MAD on Apr 18, 2007 12:39 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
170+ open market shoppers were given a "Ball Bearing Special" courtesy of insurgents. You can read all three sentences pertaining to the massive loss of life equaling nearly 6 VT massacres if you scour the Fox, CNN and Reuters websites, right under these headlines:

"Cho's McBeef Character Based on George W. Bush"

"Hokies Rally 'Round The Ol' 12-Guage - Call For More Guns To Protect Students"

"Virginians Cry 'Til It Hurts - Look For Koreans To Hurt 'Til It Feels Better"

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oyster
Posted by: thortytoes on Apr 18, 2007 2:01 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am a Canadian, from Montreal. Last September we had a shooting in a college that killed one and injured 15 or 16. That more weren't killed was sheer luck. The gunman also killed himself. He was of East Indian origin, a Sikh. This was not mentioned in any of the press I read. Nor, as far as I know, did other Sikhs or East Indians write any worried articles. The shooter's prediliction for Goth websites and music was stressed, however.

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» RE: oyster Posted by: babs
» RE: oyster Posted by: Scientz
» RE: oyster Posted by: zyxwvut
Student arrested after he "made comments about understanding how someone could kill 32 people."
Posted by: zyxwvut on Apr 18, 2007 2:48 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
CU student arrested for comments
By The Associated Press
Article Last Updated: 04/18/2007 03:24:46 PM MDT


Boulder - A University of Colorado student has been arrested after making "threatening" comments in class that seemed sympathetic toward the gunman who killed 32 students at Virginia Tech, authorities said.

Max Karson was arrested Tuesday on suspicion of interfering with staff, faculty or students of an education institution.

His age and hometown were not available, and a university spokesman did not immediately return a call today to The Associated Press.

University police Cmdr. Brad Wiesley said that during a class discussion of the Virginia Tech massacre, Karson "made comments about understanding how someone could kill 32 people."

Several witnesses told investigators that Karson said he was "angry about all kinds of things, from the fluorescent light bulbs to the unpainted walls, and it made him angry enough to kill people," according to a police report.

Wiesley said others in the class interpreted Karson's statements as threats.

"More than one student said they were afraid," Wiesley said. "They said they were afraid of him and afraid to come to class with him."

Michael Karson, Max Karson's father, told the Boulder Daily Camera that his son's comments may have been misinterpreted.

The elder Karson questioned whether his son's free-speech rights had been violated.

"I would have hoped that state officials would know their First Amendment better than they seem to," he said.


On the face of it, this incident seems to be real hysteria.

A person better not talk about the shooter as a human being. No, he's a mythological creature, totally and intrinsically different from other people, and simply evil. People better not try to understand what led him to what he did, or they can be arrested.

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Insightful Article
Posted by: Gravitas on Apr 18, 2007 3:17 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Good article. I am sorry that some people don't get it!

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very surprised
Posted by: bambino on Apr 18, 2007 5:30 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
i was convinced it was a white male student because this is the profile for this kind of crime. so i was rather shocked that he was asian and korean. what surprised me even more was how diverse the students were there. it seemed they were from every part of the world. the new university. i do wonder though about some of the pressures to suceed among certain groups, although this boyman was obviously ill.i must say i was surprised that even talk of a backlash was there. i have never felt that way about any asian group or heard any. the men especially seem polite and decent. little posturing. for me, this is more of a puzzle than any possible indictment of a group. but how american to suddenly be afraid of that. that is the most shameful situation to read about.

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Let the backlash begin!
Posted by: jisangNY1 on Apr 18, 2007 6:14 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have read several Korean newspapers online and it appears already there are reports of hate crimes being committed against Korean nationals and Asian Americans in this country. Go figure! Why does everything about America have to be about race? If you want to read about the backlash Google: "Korean newspapers online," and read about some of the incidents. Nobody wanted to attack white people after Columbine or the Texas shootings in 1966--why Asian people now?

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» Whites are united? Posted by: White middleclass male
The racist-tribalist mind
Posted by: chief of okeefe on Apr 18, 2007 6:17 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Here is how it works:

If you are a perceived member of the "good tribe", then you are responsible for your own actions and neither are blamed nor need to apologize for what others in your "tribe" do. So white republican racists (redundant, I know) do not apologize for what white Timothy McVeigh did, nor see a reason why any living white person should apologize for slavery.

But if you are a member of the "subhuman tribe", then you are guilty until you can bow and scrape and beg massa for foregiveness, if any member of your tribe should so much as scratch the heel of massa's boot.

For an example how this works: If a muslim arab blows up New York, suddenly the republifascists are demanding that every muslim on earth apologize or off to Abu Graib or Guantanimo to you! And every muslim can be killed as collateral damage in any prememptive violence that suites the republifascist fancy, since, after all, 9/11 was "their fault".

Why are muslims to blame for 9/11, even when they did not plan or participate? Why must they be drug out and made to give loyalty oaths to the ruling ziono-fascist elite? Because they are members of the "subhuman tribe".

The Koreans must be praying a special thanks for muslims, since if the republifascists were not pre-occupied with their Global War on Muslims, then the white fascists, needing a target, would now be going after Koreans.

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Fantasyartist
Posted by: Fantasyartist on Apr 19, 2007 3:02 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm really not certain if the VT shooter's ethnicity is relevant as such. Had he been a blond haired , Roman Catholic green eyed male of Irish/Hungarian/Anglo descent(much like my favorite film star Drew Barrymore), nobody would give a damn-"he's one of us after all!"

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Koreans have reason to be concerned
Posted by: timebomb734 on Apr 19, 2007 3:31 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A few years ago, a Hmong immigrant snapped and shot a hunters in a Wisconsin forest area. The act came as a major shock to the small town community, who, being a small town, decided they didn't like "The Hmongs". This happened some time ago and is still brought up in tandem with Hmong immigrants.

On a completely different note....
I find the total lack of reflection after these kinds of tradgedies to be indicitive of why we have not yet found a solution, much less the cause, of mass violence in America. Everyone must immediately hop on the bandwagon of analysis, and suddenly everyone is a judge, jury and expert. Where is the mourning, the sense of solemnity? Oh wait...I think Nancy Grace just shot it...

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The Ethnicity That Counts
Posted by: JohnU on Apr 19, 2007 7:13 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Assuming Cho Seung-hui was Christian, most Korean immigrants are, if there was any ethnic component to his mental illness it most likely came from Christianity, not Korea.

John
Seattle

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Americo’s Culture of Violence bites us in the Ass agai
Posted by: williameon on Apr 19, 2007 10:13 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Ignorant
Alone
Afraid
The Chicken
Says:
Make my day!

During a killing spree
He mails his video
In a letter.

Another
Robot killer
Spawned by
The
NSAFBICIA
Hydra Headed Monster
Goes berserk!

Sorry!
We’re
Too busy
Torturing!
To save ya.

Do you really think?
The
Dirty Tricks
Went out with
Tricky Dicky?

Same old story
Same Nightmare!
Nobody home!
No one comes,
To the rescue!

They’re all
Tree Huggers!

Stand Down
Virginia Tech

Stay in your room.
Wait for the Goon
Soon
Enough
Your lessons
Will
All
Be over!

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Asians shouldn't worry.
Posted by: CHend on Apr 19, 2007 7:43 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Niggers have been killing since this country began, and today Whitie kids look up to them!

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The VPI Killer Mindset Is "Ideal" For US Occupation Troops In Iraq
Posted by: deaconjones on Apr 19, 2007 8:51 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The VPI Killer Mindset Is "Ideal" For US Occupation Troops In Iraq


A mindset due to severe alienation from society and violent video
games has accidentally created the ideal mindset for occupation troops
as far as the US military is concerned. Can it be packaged up and be
brought to troops in basic training ?....before they go off to beat up
the "sand n...ggers" of Iraq ...

For a non-Republican kid , whether or not he/she is ethnic or not
to attend VPI ....will encounter the fraternity/ sorority system.....
which is the juvenile version of the global corporate world----
that is to say dumb rich white guys make the rules (even if their actions
collectively mean the end of the American Empire)

That is to say the global 3rd world is expanding in the US while the
75 IQ idiot president fiddles while Rome, Iraq, Afghanistan....and now
Blacksburg burns.

Satifaction of sex drives, marriage( ie even with a green card it is
easy now to be deported)and increasing basic needs like food, housing and
health care has been deemed by the moronic country club/ sorority-fraternity
system as not an entitlement among plebians.........but a mere afterthought
from the consumer feeding frenzy going on in the country club burbs...
..............charity from television, right wing fundamentalist preachers
who sound remarkably like Osama bin Ladin...if the words were not oozing out of
Pat Robertson's mouth............

When I listen to these words which preach the exact opposite of the words of Christ .....when their message is distilled into 180 proof real-time
reality ..............they advocate communism for corporations and grown-up
sorority gals/ frat bros......and free market competition for jobs, housing
food for the growing internal third world plebs ........That even education
by and large has been dumbed down to help the plebs digest this country club
pablum has gone largely unnoticed....Bush and nearly all of his neo-con buddies
graduated from elite country club universities.......

In short there isn't really much for a pleb's son to do in Blacksburg
......except learn to know his place...Courtship, sex, entertainment and the
determination of "cool" has been thoroughly monopolized by dumb, rich country club Republicans.....

But what will happen when the vets from Iraq and Afghanistan return from
the war to ensure Halliburton's and the other oil corporate sisters' profit
line? There will be literally thousands of former GI's on the street..
thinking more less just like the VPI shooter.....I know for i am a vet from
another corporate war--Vietnam....

If casual sex and tv/video game violence ever gets boring to the frats and so girls they might try reading Reagon's old navy secretary Paul Craig Roberts ( a Repug)for a glimpse of the looming disasters on the horizin.....or International Clearing House
, or Truthout, or Commondreams......or

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racism's role in this...
Posted by: dumbokie on Apr 19, 2007 11:20 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm surprised that as far as I can tell no one has noted that racism almost certainly played a role in not stopping this tragedy - specifically the racist assumptions of the police who found the first bodies - a white woman and a black man. Of course the only explaination was the girls' white boyfriend! Remember how the first reports all refered to it as "a presumed case of domestic violence"? If the cops hadn't quit thinking at that very moment so they could concentrate on finding the "person of interest" (the boyfriend) how long might it have been before they asked - "well - who do we have on this campus that might do something like this?" How long before they came up with Cho's name? Probably not that long - the cops knew him - they were the ones that first convinced him to go to the mental hospital - they knew him as a frightening stalker - do you think then they just might have gone and knocked on his dorm room door and found him recording his "manifesto"? We'll never know - because after they found those first two bodies they were too busy chasing down the only explaination that made any sense in their white southern male minds.

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