COMMENTS: 313
'Bowling for Columbine' Teaches How to Prevent Another Va. Tech Massacre
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Do not doubt that the National Rifle Association is preparing its "this-had-nothing-to-do-with-guns" press release. The group has no compunctions about living up to its reputation for being beyond shame -- or education -- when it comes to peddling its spin on days when it would be better to simply remain silent. But the NRA will not be alone in responding in a self-serving manner. Many groups on all sides of issues related to guns and violence in America will be busy making their points, just as many in the media will look for one dimensional "explanations" for what the university's president, Charles Steger, has correctly described as "a tragedy... of monumental proportions."
"The university is shocked and indeed horrified," explained Steger, after it became clear that what had happened on his campus Monday was worse the carnage at Columbine High School in 1999 or at the University of Texas in 1966.
The trouble with shock and horror is that it does not often translate into contemplation, let alone serious reflection on the state of a nation in which such an incident can occur -- and, more troublingly, in which no one can suggest that the killings were unimaginable.
The first question, appropriately, is: Why did this happen?
The second question, equally appropriately, is: What should we do about it?
There is is a simple answer to Question No. 1: America is a violent country.
Unfortunately, simple answers lead to simplistic responses. If America can do nothing about its violent streak, the NRA will argue, it is silly to place limits on gun ownership. Better to arm everyone, the argument goes. Or better to allow the "concealed carry" of weapons. Or, well, you get the point -- anything to avoid taking a piece out of the profits of the corporations that manufacture and sell deadly weapons.
By the same token, the notion that banning those weapons will end the violence has become a a tougher sell. Shocking and horrible rampages occur in countries with stricter gun laws than the U.S. No, they do not happen as frequently. But they do happen.
Conversely, in some countries where gun ownership is relatively high, incidents like at Virginia Tech are far less common.
We ought to wrestle with these contradictions and complexities.
But where to begin?
Here is a modest proposal: Instead of adopting a particular line, rent Michael Moore's "Bowling for Columbine."
Of course, there are those who will not be able to see beyond their rage at Moore to recognize the value of this particular film.
Moore's 2002 film remains the best popular exploration of violence and the gun culture in America. And, despite what the film maker's critics would have you believe, it is a remarkably nuanced assessment of the zeitgeist.
Moore's purpose was to offer an explanation for why the Columbine massacre occurred and to examine the broader question of why the U.S. has higher rates of violent crimes than other developed nations.
Moore certainly does not let apologists for the gun industry off the hook. But he does not stop there. "Bowling for Columbine" explores the role that America's mad foreign policies and obscene expenditures on weapons of mass destruction might play in fostering a culture of violence. Most significantly, Moore takes a serious look at the way in which American media, with its obsessive crime coverage, creates a climate of fear in this country -- a climate that actually ends up encouraging violence.
After the movie came out, Mary Corliss wrote in Film Comment: "Moore makes the mind swim with the atrocities and poignancies on display. 'Bowling for Columbine' should be mandatory viewing."
That was true in 2002. It is ever more true today.
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Comments are closed-
Posted by: guybjones on Apr 17, 2007 7:43 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The human mind is complex, unpredictable, and yes, largely intangible, even to this day. We are animals, still, despite our lofty aspirations. This is the reality, end of story.
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» RE: Very Silly...
Posted by: ccnygal13
» I beg to differ...
Posted by: guybjones
» What's your explanation
Posted by: geoff_canuck
» RE: What's your explanation
Posted by: Blue Heron
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Posted by: White middleclass male on Apr 17, 2007 7:53 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The left is always exalting country's like Norway and Finland for their social programs like universal health care. How diverse are the people in those countries? How does 6'5'' Blue eyed blond haired Sven Jorganson respond when an olive skinned 5'6'' Turkish man named Mohamed wants a piece of his pie (or danish what ever the case may be).
There is nothing you can do about it really as far as America goes. It just pisses me off that no one wants to acknowledge the fact that people get along better with people that look like them than others. This is not exclusive to people that fit the description of my user name either.
Off topic but:
If I am white, They are black/brown/yellow/red
If they are African/Latin/Asian/native American, I am a European American.
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» RE: Heterogeneity
Posted by: Ahimsa
» RE: Heterogeneity
Posted by: jaby
» "...nothing you can do about it really..." Oh yeah? Read the posts that follow.
Posted by: Sojourner
» RE: "...nothing you can do about it really..." Oh yeah? Read the posts that follow.
Posted by: Suburban Dad
» RE: Heterogeneity
Posted by: Suburban Dad
» RE: Heterogeneity
Posted by: texshelters
» RE: Heterogeneity
Posted by: mcubed
» GUESS YOU DONT KNOW YOUR SCANDINAVIAN HISTORY
Posted by: HistArch
» RE: GUESS YOU DONT KNOW YOUR SCANDINAVIAN HISTORY
Posted by: MarcusA
» Population density
Posted by: suprmark
» Don't be dissuaded by the doubters - You're onto something
Posted by: ateo
» RE: Heterogeneity, and its absurdity
Posted by: argos
» RE: Heterogeneity
Posted by: jisangNY1
» RE: Heterogeneity
Posted by: latin11368
» This kind of comment...
Posted by: latin11368
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Posted by: frosty86 on Apr 17, 2007 8:08 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Unfortunately, Michael Moore's film never once focused on the issue of gender and masculinity. These school shootings are not "kids killing kids." The perpetrators are overwhelmingly boys and men. Over 95% of all violent crimes are committed by men, so this is a gendered phenomenon. We need to reflect on the messages we are giving young men and women about what it means to be a "real man" or simply to be a man. Given the violence and hyper-masculinity depicted in movies and music videos along with the militarization of our culture, young boys learn that violence and aggression is an appropriate way to handle disagreement and express themselves. And when it comes to sexual violence, women are overwhelmingly the victims of ovewhelmingly male perpetrators.
Can we please stop depoliticizing these events by chalking them up to individual weirdos who snap one day and actually focus on how our larger culture plays a role??
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» RE: Socialization, Culture, and Gender
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Socialization, Culture, and Gender
Posted by: Lauren
» It's not the "culture of violence" or "video games"....Its the perfect blond's on TV
Posted by: psychochurch
» RE: It's not the "culture of violence" or "video games"....Its the perfect blond's on TV
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: It's not the "culture of violence" or "video games"....Its the perfect blond's on TV
Posted by: jroth420
» RE: It's not the "culture of violence" or "video games"....Its the perfect blond's on TV
Posted by: zyxwvut
» RE: It's not the "culture of violence" or "video games"....Its the perfect blond's on TV
Posted by: psychochurch
» RE: It's not the "culture of violence" or "video games"....Its the perfect blond's on TV
Posted by: zyxwvut
» RE: It's not the "culture of violence" or "video games"....Its the perfect blond's on TV
Posted by: psychochurch
» 180 degrees
Posted by: Iconoclast421
» People are animals and men are killers - this is natural
Posted by: ateo
Comments are closed-
Posted by: xbj on Apr 17, 2007 8:14 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Already the morons are yelling "More guns!!! More guns!!! GUNS would have prevented this!"
Yeah, until the first armed teacher goes postal on her class and takes out every single student.
Gun nuts never think, not for a single second. What do you expect of idiots that think owning an arsenal is going to stand up to a government tank and ATF SWAT team at the front door? Did their arsenal save Waco, Gun Nuts? Did their arsenal save Ruby Ridge? Or more your speed, Jonestown?
On the contrary, when the government brings a tank to your next door neighbor to take out THEIR moronic arsenal, you're just liable to lose a couple of kids and family members in the shootout if you can't get the hell out and away from the firefight in time.
Gun nuts are probably the stupidest most suicidal people on earth, and the real pity is they really see themselves as "survivalists." Pawns for a multi-billion dollar industry that is backed by the elite for the sole purpose of having an idiot populace KILL EACH OTHER so they won't have to.
Good luck when that tank shows up at your front door, and trust me; it WILL.
Friggin' morons. Is de-arming society the answer then?
Duh. De-arming these nuts means that when the tank comes, everyone at least survives.
But no, that's too logical for gun NUTS. They all need to go out in the wilderness WITH THEIR GUNS and live in caves... caves can stand up to tanks. Until an ATF shoulder-fired bunker buster improves the overall intelligence of the human race.
And Charlton Heston? Don't get me STARTED on that tired-out old whore...
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» RE: A field day for the gun nut lobby
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: A field day for the gun nut lobby
Posted by: suprmark
» RE: A field day for the gun nut lobby
Posted by: dover23
» RE: A field day for the gun nut lobby
Posted by: xbj
» obi-wan
Posted by: funknjunk
» RE: obi-wan
Posted by: xbj
» RE: A field day for the nutty gun grabbers
Posted by: apophenia_monkey
» RE: A field day for the nutty gun grabbers
Posted by: xbj
» RE: A field day for the nutty gun grabbers
Posted by: apophenia_monkey
» RE: A field day for the nutty gun grabbers
Posted by: xbj
» LEEEEROOOOOY JEEEEENNNNNNKIIIINSSSS!
Posted by: apophenia_monkey
» RE: LEEEEROOOOOY JEEEEENNNNNNKIIIINSSSS!
Posted by: xbj
» This Exchange
Posted by: apophenia_monkey
» RE: This Exchange
Posted by: xbj
» RE: This Exchange
Posted by: apophenia_monkey
» RE: This Exchange
Posted by: xbj
» RE: This Exchange
Posted by: apophenia_monkey
» RE: This Exchange
Posted by: xbj
» RE: A field day for the nutty gun grabbers
Posted by: dover23
» RE: A field day for the nutty gun grabbers
Posted by: xbj
» Problem with Bans
Posted by: timebomb734
» RE: Problem with Bans
Posted by: xbj
» Hitler was for gun control
Posted by: Iconoclast421
» RE: Hitler was for gun control - So is Jesus
Posted by: xbj
» RE: Hitler was for gun control - So is Jesus
Posted by: apophenia_monkey
» RE: Hitler was for gun control - So is Jesus
Posted by: xbj
» RE: Hitler was for gun control - So is Jesus
Posted by: apophenia_monkey
» RE: Hitler was for gun control - So is Jesus
Posted by: xbj
» RE: Hitler was for gun control - So is Jesus
Posted by: apophenia_monkey
» RE: Hitler was for gun control - So is Jesus
Posted by: xbj
» RE: Hitler was for gun control - So is Jesus
Posted by: apophenia_monkey
» RE: Hitler was for gun control - So is Jesus
Posted by: xbj
» RE: Hitler was for gun control - So is Jesus
Posted by: apophenia_monkey
» RE: Hitler was for gun control - So is Jesus
Posted by: xbj
» RE: Hitler was for gun control - So is Jesus
Posted by: apophenia_monkey
» RE: You contradict yourself so many times it is rather amusing to read...
Posted by: blaine s
» RE: it sure didn't last beyond 2007, did it?...
Posted by: blaine s
» RE: i meant 2000 (nm)
Posted by: blaine s
» RE: it sure didn't last beyond 2007, did it?...
Posted by: xbj
» RE: it sure didn't last beyond 2007, did it?...
Posted by: blaine s
» RE: it sure didn't last beyond 2007, did it?...
Posted by: xbj
» RE: A field day for the gun nut lobby
Posted by: dll932
» RE: A field day for the gun nut lobby
Posted by: xbj
» RE: A field day for the gun nut lobby
Posted by: dll932
» RE: A field day for the gun nut lobby
Posted by: xbj
» RE: A field day for the gun nut lobby
Posted by: dll932
» RE: A field day for the gun nut lobby
Posted by: xbj
» RE: A field day for the gun nut lobby
Posted by: dll932
Comments are closed-
Posted by: rtmyth on Apr 17, 2007 8:27 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» One single weapon in opposition to the killer would have saved lives. (nm)
Posted by: alaskagrrl
» RE: One single weapon in opposition to the killer would have saved lives. (nm)
Posted by: YogiBear
» One single weapon
Posted by: YogiBear
Comments are closed-
Posted by: dbatterman on Apr 17, 2007 8:55 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
(And if the "nuts" were de-armed when the tank arrived, they still wouldn't survive. Tell that to the unarmed people who have been killed in Iraq.)
There are a million ways to look at this tradgedy, and the article did a good job of not pointing the finger at one scapegoat but recommending a movie which takes a broader view. It's easy to point and scream "NRA BAD! GUN CONTROL GOOD!" but it doesn't change anything in the real world.
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» RE: Using the same tactics?
Posted by: yellow
» RE: Using the same tactics?
Posted by: dll932
» RE: Using the same tactics?
Posted by: xbj
» RE: Using the same tactics?
Posted by: dll932
» RE: Using the same tactics?
Posted by: xbj
» RE: Using the same tactics?
Posted by: dll932
» RE: Using the same tactics?
Posted by: xbj
» RE: Using the same tactics?
Posted by: dll932
» RE: Using the same tactics?
Posted by: xbj
» RE: Using the same tactics?
Posted by: xbj
Comments are closed-
Posted by: J- on Apr 17, 2007 9:01 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And I agree, even though I'm going to hear about it, that this didn't really have anything to with guns. Remember, it could have just as easily been a rented truck full of fertilizer and diesel fuel.
Furthermore, I'd like to point out that comparisons to Columbine should be on an environmental and sociological level, and not from a physical security standpoint. Securing a single building is much easier to do, and to respond to incidents in, than a 2600 acre campus.
Please, above all, don't resort to name calling or yelling. That's not going to help. Real discourse is what is needed, and back to my earlier statement, blaming inanimate objects, while easy, will never solve anything. Things we should be talking about are a failure or lack of a public mental health infrastructure, the dominance of athletics within the academic environments or possibly the effect of media on society in general.
Read Mark Ames book, Going Postal, and then see if it's still a black and white issue.
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» Good Post!! The problem really is that America is suffering from a sick spirit...
Posted by: psychochurch
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Posted by: alaskagrrl on Apr 17, 2007 9:13 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If I hadn’t had that weapon, I would be dead. Don’t assume anything about my judgment, I am a professional wilderness guide with unassailable credentials.
Sometimes, what you need is a handy weapon. Sorta like those poor students in VA.
If I were there, I could have laid down cover fire while at least some of the students escaped. Even with his bullet proof vest I would have likely ended the catastrophe with a head shot. That’s because I know how to handle my weapon.
In Alaska we have no concealed permit laws. We simply have a right to arm ourselves. NOT from the government, such assumption is foolish. We arm ourselves against Criminals. Even little old ladies carry arms in their purses, and you know what ?
Criminals pause....
I have to ask the Gun Control People this question: When confronted what are you supposed to do to protect yourself ? Dial 911 ? Give me a break....
That’s takes a lot of faith. I have more faith in my trained hand and weapon. Are you folks so generous that you would sacrifice your own lives for the presumed ‘greater good’ that comes from an unarmed society ?
That last question is best answered when you are facing death. Or better yet, when your child is facing death. Then imagine yourself with a gun.
Would you use it -- or would you roll over and die for your beliefs ?
Be honest.
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» RE: Stop Calling ME Nuts !
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Stop Calling ME Nuts !
Posted by: texshelters
» Guns make sense for you, but we don't want everyone carrying one . . .
Posted by: Moonray
» RE: Guns make sense for you, but we don't want everyone carrying one . . .
Posted by: YogiBear
» Yes....but the question is...where are all the criminals coming from???
Posted by: psychochurch
» RE: Stop Calling ME Nuts !
Posted by: xbj
» IN THE LOWER 48 WE DONT NEED GUNS
Posted by: HistArch
» Apparently you do need guns. I know I do... because I'm a hate crime target.
Posted by: alaskagrrl
» You ignorant Slut...
Posted by: alaskagrrl
» RE: You ignorant Slut...
Posted by: xbj
» RE: You ignorant Slut...
Posted by: argos
» RE: IN THE LOWER 48 WE DONT NEED GUNS
Posted by: dll932
» RE: Stop Calling ME Nuts !
Posted by: JMorse
» RE: Stop Calling ME Nuts !
Posted by: sweetlou
» I'm alive today because I won that face-off with a Moose. 30 years of life well enjoyed.
Posted by: alaskagrrl
» RE: Stop Calling ME Nuts !
Posted by: suprmark
» O yeah, your "head shot" boast makes me trust your judgement....
Posted by: supercrisp
» RE: O yeah, your "head shot" boast makes me trust your judgement....
Posted by: sweetlou
» Oh right, my bad....
Posted by: supercrisp
» Purse sized Glock. If you want to continue fantasizing. (nm)
Posted by: alaskagrrl
» RE: Oh right, my bad....
Posted by: YogiBear
» Tele said this AM he was wearing body armor... if you want the lingo read on.
Posted by: alaskagrrl
» RE: Stop Calling ME Nuts !
Posted by: Rathan47
Comments are closed-
Posted by: CatDad on Apr 17, 2007 9:21 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The media/entertainment industry will not pull back from violent shows/movies/games....they're too profitable. This nation is saturated with guns and with Tim McVeigh we already know what will happen if people perceive that their guns are going to be taken away. The Dems have so compromised themselves on economic issues that they jump all over themselves (like Kerry) to show that they love guns too.
The best we can do is work on intervention and school safety/lockdown strategies. The Right Wing has basically won on the issue of gun ownership. Congratulations guys...hope you’re happy.
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» This problem goes far deeper than guns, neither side has even acknowledged the problem...
Posted by: ateo
» RE: This problem...
Posted by: blaine s
» RE: Between a Rock and a Hard Place...
Posted by: dll932
Comments are closed-
Posted by: texshelters on Apr 17, 2007 9:34 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The logic of the radical gun lobby is without parellel. So let's look at it.
1. Guns don't kill people, people do...but how many people can you really kill more than one person at a time with a kitchen knife. Guns make it really easy to kill.
2. Cars kill people, why not ban cars. It's easier in many states to get a gun than a car, and guns were designed for one thing, to kill. Cars were not designed to kill. Should we ban penicillin because some people are alergic to it?
3. Doctors cause more accidental deaths than guns, so ban doctors. Maybe doctors do cause more "accidental deaths", but few doctors cause intential death. All gun deaths are intentional.
4. If you criminalize guns, only criminals will have guns. So, we should allow anyone to have crack because if we ban crack, only crackheads will use crack. Did anyone say we should fully ban guns? Perhaps we should have background and personality checks before letting everyone and anyone have a gun. Perhaps an automatic weapon isn't needed to stop an intruder or hunt deer. Why not ban the manufacture and sale of these weapons?
5. More guns, less crime. Having more guns has not been proven to reduce crime. There are many more factors that have been shown to reduce crime, and it's not gun ownership. It's inaccurate statistic like this that prevent us from dealing with gun violence in our society.
6. Why do places with stricter gun laws have more gun violence? BECAUSE THE LAWS WERE PASSED DUE TO THE HIGH RATE OF GUN VIOLENCE! Gun laws don't cause gun violence, they are a reaction to the violence.
The paranoia and cowardous of the "guns at any cost" crowd is astounding. The same set of Bush/Limbaugh lies are used to scare people into the belief that 1) there are people out there who want to take away all of your guns, and 2) you will actually be safer with a gun.
I don't care if individuals have guns. However, can't we enact common sense safe guards to prevent massacres like the one at Va. Tech?
Culture, psychology, political climate, and economics all have to do with gun violence. Keep guns out of the hands of criminals, the mentally unstable, and the anti-social personalities, and ban multi-shot weapons only created to kill en masse, and that would be a good start. Sure, guns don't kill people, but it makes it easier for people like Cho Seung-Hui to kill dozens of people before being stopped.
Should massacres like this be the price we pay to defend the second amendment at all costs? Or should we accept things the way they are, throw up our hands and say, "shoot away".
Joe Tex
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» A couple of points...
Posted by: dbatterman
» RE: A couple of points...
Posted by: psychochurch
» Gun shows
Posted by: texshelters
» RE: Gun shows
Posted by: dbatterman
» The issue is not about guns.....
Posted by: psychochurch
» RE: The issue is not about guns.....
Posted by: texshelters
» RE: The issue is not about guns.....
Posted by: psychochurch
» RE: The issue is not about guns.....
Posted by: texshelters
» RE: Gun don't kill...blah blah blah
Posted by: Iconoclast421
» RE: Gun don't kill...blah blah blah
Posted by: texshelters
» RE: Gun don't kill...blah blah blah
Posted by: dll932
Comments are closed-
Posted by: alterpa123 on Apr 17, 2007 9:42 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Pot meet kettle.
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» RE: You wrote this exploitative essay before the bodies were even cold.
Posted by: texshelters
» STATEMENT BY THE NRA
Posted by: ateo
» RE: STATEMENT BY THE NRA
Posted by: texshelters
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Moonray on Apr 17, 2007 9:49 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Most gun owners should be allowed to own only revolvers and single-shot rifles and shotguns, and a few rounds of ammo for self-protection, with tough penalties for owning more. Target shooting would have to take place in gun clubs.
Metal detectors should be installed in virtually all public places.
Those tough guys who claim they would never give up their guns would change their tune fast if the first few violators received stiff jail terms. Enough is enough.
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» RE: Time to get rid of most semiautomatics -- and especially ammo
Posted by: hole11
» RE: Time to get rid of most semiautomatics -- and especially ammo
Posted by: jroth420
» Your screenname is most accurate . . .
Posted by: Moonray
» I AGREE
Posted by: HistArch
» Good idea, but I disagree on some details
Posted by: supercrisp
» You make some very good points . . .
Posted by: Moonray
» gun law changes after Port Arthur
Posted by: Ames
» RE: Yes, let's destroy the bill of rights! then we can make all sorts of crazy laws!
Posted by: ateo
» RE: Yes, let's destroy the bill of rights! then we can make all sorts of crazy laws!
Posted by: texshelters
» RE: Time to get rid of most semiautomatics -- and especially ammo
Posted by: dll932
Comments are closed-
Posted by: PJH67 on Apr 17, 2007 10:00 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: If gun control works....
Posted by: xbj
» RE: If gun control works....
Posted by: sweetlou
» RE: If gun control works....
Posted by: xbj
» RE: If gun control works....
Posted by: sweetlou
» RE: If gun control works....
Posted by: xbj
» RE: If gun control works....
Posted by: sweetlou
» RE: If gun control works....
Posted by: xbj
» RE: If gun control works....
Posted by: sweetlou
» RE: If gun control works....
Posted by: xbj
» RE: If gun control works....
Posted by: sweetlou
» RE: If gun control works....
Posted by: xbj
» RE: If gun control works....
Posted by: sweetlou
» RE: If gun control works....
Posted by: xbj
» Because gun control doesn't work, it just turns every law abiding citizen into an easy victim - N/M
Posted by: ateo
» RE: There are far worse things in life than being an innocent victim
Posted by: dll932
» RE: There are far worse things in life than being an innocent victim
Posted by: dll932
» RE: Because gun control doesn't work, it just turns every law abiding citizen into an easy victim - N/M
Posted by: texshelters
» RE: Because gun control doesn't work, it just turns every law abiding citizen into an easy victim -
Posted by: dll932
» RE: Because gun control doesn't work, it just turns every law abiding citizen into an easy victim -
Posted by: xbj
» RE: Because gun control doesn't work, it just turns every law abiding citizen into an easy victim -
Posted by: dll932
Comments are closed-
Posted by: hole11 on Apr 17, 2007 10:04 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Of what are you afraid?
Posted by: geoff_canuck
» Jackson Said Enforce The Supreme Court Ruling
Posted by: hole11
» Criminals for crying out loud ! You have too much faith in Saviors. (nm)
Posted by: alaskagrrl
Comments are closed-
Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Apr 17, 2007 10:14 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
On Tuesday around 100 people were killed, mostly in Baghdad, but the day's deadliest attack came from the twin blasts at the entrance of the renowned Mustansiriyah University in east Baghdad, security officials said.
The explosions ripped through dozens of students, teachers, and employees of the university as they were heading home at the end of the day, killing 65 and wounding 138.
The massive bombings left a number of nearby cars completely burned and many bodies charred in their parked vehicles, a witness said.
The dead and wounded were rushed to city hospitals in bed sheets, blankets, stretchers, and a number of pickup trucks.
Burned corpses could be seen lying on the street outside the university, their mobile telephones ringing unanswered, the photographer said.
(It was Mustansiriyah University)
NPR was running stories about the need for counseling for all the students at Virginia Tech after the tragic event, and that seems like the right thing to do - but NPR barely covered the Baghdad bombing.
What you see in the US was an immediate push by the NRA public relations team, all over the rightwing radio shows and blogs - yup, now's the time to push the 'right of citizens to bear arms' (oops - he wasn't a citizen, just someone who had no problem getting his hands on a weapon...) - just another public relations moment for the NRA.
300 people were killed in Iraq last weekend. Over the last ten days in Iraq, some 34 US soldiers have been killed, and who knows? 500 civilians? The media will try and play this up as some unique tragedy, but the public knows it's just more meaningless, inexplicable slaughter in an out-of-control world.
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» Thank you for these facts.
Posted by: tlCampbell
» RE: Thank you for these facts - ditto
Posted by: Ames
» Ah, but the middle class doesn't care about Iraq, they care about their spoiled kids in their...
Posted by: ateo
Comments are closed-
Posted by: fanny666 on Apr 17, 2007 10:26 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The anti-immigration people will have a field day with it.
We all need to be vigilant as different groups try to manipulate the outpouring of grief and anger.
This is so sad. I wish humanity were going in a better direction. Sometimes it feels like taking a chisel to a mountain.
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» RE: verybody will use this to push their agendas
Posted by: dll932
Comments are closed-
Posted by: fmindlin on Apr 17, 2007 10:42 AM
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"Virginia Tech ... is one of only two civilian universities in the US with a corps of cadets who undergo military training on campus. Until 1966 it was a requirement for all male students to have received military training."
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» RE: Totally unrelated to this situation, how pointless to even mention it - N/M
Posted by: blaine s
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Posted by: Iconoclast421 on Apr 17, 2007 10:41 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But tougher gun laws... what will that do? It's another one of those "but the border is wide open" issues. You aren't going to stop someone from premeditatively taking their own life and taking as many people with them as they can, if that is what they are hellbent on doing. If he could not have bought a gun he probably would have obtained one through some other means. And what if there were no guns? Do you know how many people one could mow down with an SUV? I'm not sure of the statistics, but I would not be surprised if SUVs kill more people than guns! Perhaps it is time to ban driving? And we should also have our hands chopped off because as we learned on 9/11, even a box cutter can do enormous damage. And we should all be lobotomized, because who knows what type of sadistic "weapons of moderate destruction" an errant mind might conjure? (Can you say ANFO?)
People need to understand that anyone can inflict harm on anyone at nearly any given moment if they so choose, and what keeps us from doing so is this thing called civility. Fear of god is pretty much a lost cause, and fear of punishment is irrelevant when someone has already chosen to pay with their own life. We really have only two choices... accept more of the prisoner's mindset, sacrificing liberty for security. Or work on this civility problem. Lack of empathy, consumerist isolationism, gross inequality, injustice, entrenched power... address those problems, or live like a slave in the world, and as a prisoner in your own mind. But hey, I guess as long as we have Jack Bauer that is an acceptable compromise.
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» RE: Words from a "Bowling for Columbine" fan
Posted by: jaby
» RE: Words from a "Bowling for Columbine" fan
Posted by: Iconoclast421
» RE: Words from a "Bowling for Columbine" fan
Posted by: jaby
» Arming the Citizenry Looks Pretty Foolish Right Now
Posted by: sofla100
» RE: Arming the Citizenry Looks Pretty Foolish Right Now
Posted by: Iconoclast421
» RE: Arming the Citizenry Looks Pretty Foolish Right Now
Posted by: YogiBear
» Feh, most people shouldn't be allowed to drive...
Posted by: supercrisp
» RE: Feh, most people shouldn't be allowed to drive...
Posted by: Iconoclast421
» RE: Words from a "Bowling for Columbine" fan
Posted by: YogiBear
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Blue Heron on Apr 17, 2007 11:10 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Books? Culture? Art?
Posted by: Blue Heron
» RE: Worthless POS . . . Go Crawl Back Under Your Rock!
Posted by: Blue Heron
» RE: Worthless POS . . . Go Crawl Back Under Your Rock!
Posted by: MAD
» RE: Worthless POS . . . Go Crawl Back Under Your Rock!
Posted by: Blue Heron
» RE: Books? Culture? Art?
Posted by: dll932
Comments are closed-
Posted by: sofla100 on Apr 17, 2007 11:35 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
more guns, give everyone a gun, legally require gun ownership, issue a 9mm to every adolescent, child and adult.
When does it stop? When you go to Canada, a big sign at the border with a crossmark across a firearm greets American visitors. Keep your firearms out America. Our homicide rate and firearm tragedy death rate isn't 1/10th of yours. But, get this America, if you make the means of killing people legal and available, of course it will be used. It's just plain common sense that this is an invitation to disaster. Of course, we will hear the famliar refrain: "guns don't kill, people do." Well, nuclear weapons don't kill either, people do. Therefore, should we issue nukes to all private citizens? Same logic at work.
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» RE: Nothing but Inevitable
Posted by: Blue Heron
» RPGs for Christ
Posted by: amacd
» RE: Nothing but Inevitable
Posted by: dll932
Comments are closed-
Posted by: sgtstan on Apr 17, 2007 12:02 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
News reporters have become part of the news, rather than just reporters of facts. And to fill the time allowed them, reporters have already thrown out comments such as: “If only little Timmy didn’t have a gun, he wouldn’t have killed Susie” and “Could stricter gun regulations have prevented this tragedy?” It never fails to amuse that reporters rarely put the onus of responsibility on the individual who committed the crime.
And its not that all reporters are left-wing sociologists blaming society for every spilt cup of milk. They say these things because they don’t know what else to say. With their blank faces in front of a camera, they try to hold the audience’s attention by promising the latest details, while in reality they await the facts as fed them by the real investigators – the police.
But they never fail to revive the gun control issue.
I would suggest that, before any more of you embarrass yourselves blaming the NRA and “gun nuts,” educate yourselves. Simply put, not every gun owner joins nor supports the NRA, nor is every gun owner a “gun nut.” If you own a car or a pair of sneakers, does that make you a “car nut” or a “shoe nut?”
The following links take you to two articles regarding the recent rise in violent crime in Great Britain, despite heavier and stricter gun control since the 1950’s.
http://www.newsmax.com/articles/?a=2000/7/10/203335
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2001/3/21/205139
Also, please check out this book from John R. Lott, Jr., concerning the media coverage of firearms usage in this country: “The Bias against Guns.”
http://www.johnlott.org
And lastly, check out Dave Grossman’s “On Combat” for some fantastic insight into just about everything that has to do with firearms use, how our children are being trained to kill, etc.
http://www.amazon.com/Combat-Dave-Grossman/dp/0964920514
One more thing I find utterly reprehensible is the continued grading of such killings. “This is the worst killing of its kind in US history.” Doesn’t that just beg one-ups-manship? My wife said she hated to hear the extensive media comparisons of such killings for two reasons. First, instead of being treated as an aberration, the media will spread the fear of such actions nationwide (as usual.) Secondly, because it will successfully result in another similar scenario elsewhere. And not simply because a gun is available…
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» The right tool for the job
Posted by: supercrisp
» Please, stop making excuses . . .
Posted by: Moonray
» RE: Please, stop making excuses . . .
Posted by: dll932
» RE: Here It Comes Again
Posted by: yellow
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Posted by: blaine s on Apr 17, 2007 12:40 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Because, they are soooo law abiding....
This is more of a supply side issue. The manufacture needs to be limited, not the ability to responsibly own them.
Look at the statistics out of Australia sinced the forced gun ban; crime is up, notably armed robbery (especially against the elderly) and murder.
And if leaving it up to law enforcement to handle, why was the death toll so high? They were already on the scene before the majority of shots were fired.
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» Criminals are not as stupid as liberals seem to think
Posted by: ateo
» RE: Criminals are not as stupid as liberals seem to think...
Posted by: blaine s
» RE: under tighter gun control...
Posted by: dll932
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Lacr0ix on Apr 17, 2007 1:24 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Liberal cowards are always for "gun-control" (for everyone EXCEPT their paid bodyguards).
Self-protection is both a right and a responsibility. The case-law is clear that Police have no duty to protect people. They are charged with protection of "society". When it comes to violence, you're on your own, in the right-now.
I thought liberals were all about protecting the oppressed - the the poor, the weak, the sick, the elderly, THE WOMEN...
This is why liberals can't get elected in this country, because, like the so-called conservatives they don't respect ALL human rights. They want to pick and choose. Liberals want all human rights except the right of an old person or a single mother to protection from violent attack. Lately, conservatives seem to want just that one right, and let's forget the others.
Notice which one right the people cling to - the right of self-protection and survival...
Gun control discriminates most against minorities, the poor, the sick, the elderly, and WOMEN - the people who are in high-crime areas, and/or who can't adequately defend themselves against a large strong aggressive young male weilding a (completely legal) screwdriver or tire-iron.
What is it liberals - Are you for affording the woman protecion from rape - or is it that you think her right to aborting the resulting fetus will make everything just fine?
People commit crimes because - they're people, and some people are aggressive. It's in the NATURE of people. Aren't liberals supposed to be all secular and scientific? Don't they believe in DARWIN? The answer is in your own mouth - You have BOTH kinds of teeth.
When some people let out the monster, the only thing that will stop that monster - is a bullet. It's sad, it's ugly, it's even disgusting. But, it's a fact of life.
There have been "no gun" rules on every campus on which shootings have taken place. This is not called "safety". It's called delusion, because "no gun" zones are really "criminal empowerment zones" - places in which the aggressive predatory people know they are safe to attack the otherwise defenseless - the sick, the elderly and WOMEN.
There was only one thing that could have stopped that guy in VA from killing so many victims. It wasn't media control of violent "entertainment". It wasn't "more gun laws". It was just ONE - law-abiding, competent, upstanding citizen exercising their inalienable right to posess the means of self-protection - and then using that means in the terrible moment it was undeniably necessary.
This was a CRIME (not a "tragedy"). The tragedy of yesterday was that all those people were victimized by their school and their government when those institutions abrogated the students' right to life by denying them the lawful means of legal and necessary self-protection. All the criminial did was shoot them - The school and the state stripped them of protection and held them down while he did it.
Get over the irrational fear if inanimate objects. Knives, guns, chainsaws, decks of cards.
ALL civil rights are FOR ALL people. Not select civil rights for select people (and their bodyguards, cronies, etc).
The "liberals" are no better than the "conservatives" in this regard, and they will continue to LOSE elections until they embrace all civil rights for all people - including and especially the right of survival in the face of a violent attacker.
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» RE: Bodyguard
Posted by: craftne
» RE: I'm afraid
Posted by: Lacr0ix
» why liberals cant get elected
Posted by: Iconoclast421
Comments are closed-
Posted by: anniedine on Apr 17, 2007 1:36 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It takes advanced intelligence, advanced emotional maturity, and advanced mental strength to do the right thing. The right thing does not involve weapons or killing of any kind.
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» RE: Strong people don't need weapons to be strong
Posted by: Topaz
» What? What kind of new age crazy talk is this?
Posted by: ateo
» RE: Strong people don't need weapons to be strong
Posted by: Lacr0ix
» RE: Strong people don't need weapons to be strong
Posted by: Topaz
» RE: Strong people don't need weapons to be strong
Posted by: dll932
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Boomerang on Apr 17, 2007 1:53 PM
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Shame on both of you.
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Posted by: craftne on Apr 17, 2007 2:27 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If you want to hunt or go to the range, rent guns.
Who do you trust to own a gun? How about neighbors? How about coworkers? Do you trust the sanity of those around you? School bus drivers? Bank tellers? What if you knew every retail shop employee had a gun in his pocket?
Is this the way you want your world to be? 300 MILLION people with guns. How about bloggers with psychotic tendencies? Let's give guns to all schoolchildren to take to school. How about psychotics who aren't under treatment because they have the "right" not to have to be? Taxi cab drivers. Postmen. How about we bring them on trains and planes? To restaurants? We can shoot anyone who gives us bad service!
My family/friends are in a debate, and some don't trust the government or the police if we choose to enact very strict gun control. Further, they say the solution is looking into why gunmen go whacko.
Why he was so whacked out?
Look at the suicide rates.
Look at all the traumatised fearful people in the US.
Look at the anger levels.
Look at the sense of entitlement.
Look at unemployment.
Look at the lack of help for the middle class.
Look at companies like Circuit City, firing to hire more cheaply.
Look at the fundamentalism (Read "Under the Banner of Heaven: The Story of a Violent Faith")
Low at illiteracy.
Look at the levels of mental problems.
Addiction.
IQ levels.
How uncommon a response do you think it is if a gun is within reach or easily obtained? How sane do you believe those around YOU are?
I lived in Australia for 5 of the past 7 years. The difference in living there with strict gun control laws is simply amazing. In 1996, this happened:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_Arthur_massacre
Australia had the same kind of "right". After the massacre, very strict gun control was enacted, and now it's very safe. In Sydney, I went to ATMs at night, I rode public transport at night, I didn't have to clutch my purse close or worry about where I walked. I LIVED the difference.
I don't trust John Howard either, but I was very safe. I don't feel safe here. I'm not as desensitised as all of you.
We are NOT taught to take responsibility - even our leaders, by example, blame everyone else – look at the blame game surrounding this tragedy already.
While our government could become a threat, and the police could become a threat, statistics show this is not the case in Western countries where they've chosen to adopt strict gun control.
I distrust regular people more. With the greed, selfishness, narrow-mindedness, fundamentalism, a huge sense of entitlement in America, violence becomes commonplace. Your coworker could be the one gone over the edge next. You could lose your wife, your kids, your parents, your brother, anyone. You could die. YOU.
Second shootings at VT since this school year began.
How many murders and suicides will it take before we realise that guns are the problem? Look at the chart and statistics here:
http://www.nsc.org/lrs/statinfo/odds.htm
Look at "Intentional Self Harm". The numbers jump 300% when a gun is introduced. Look at "Operations of war and sequelae" and "Legal intervention with firearm". Suicide is the 5th biggest killer, firearm assault is 7th. The odds you will die in war - is minuscule.
You have the right to bear a kitchen knife. Past that, I don't trust regular citizens. Nope. Not at all.
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» If you're going to talk about talking sense, then first start talking sense?
Posted by: Iconoclast421
» spot on! love your points
Posted by: nor cal surfer
» RE: spot on! love your points
Posted by: craftne
» RE: Talking Sense, not ego and entitlement
Posted by: dll932
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Just a Dad on Apr 17, 2007 2:29 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Just a game?
Posted by: fanny666
» RE: Just a game?
Posted by: Just a Dad
» RE: Just a game?
Posted by: MrAllen
» RE: Just a game?
Posted by: Iconoclast421
» RE: Just a game?
Posted by: Just a Dad
» i just watched that clip. thanks for letting me know about it... but i
Posted by: nor cal surfer
» RE: i just watched that clip. thanks for letting me know about it... but i
Posted by: Just a Dad
» i hear ya... and they will. i would heartily embrace a video
Posted by: nor cal surfer
» RE: i hear ya... and they will. i would heartily embrace a video
Posted by: Just a Dad
» thank you. good words.
Posted by: nor cal surfer
» RE: Just a game?
Posted by: Topaz
» RE: Just a game?
Posted by: Just a Dad
» RE: Just a game?
Posted by: Topaz
Comments are closed-
Posted by: sofla100 on Apr 17, 2007 2:58 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is even after you figure in all the guns smuggled into the country from the USA (a big problem Canada has confronted Bush about).
As for USA pro gun people and their cherry picked stats, I have news for them, not a single country in the world with good gun control is getting rid of it. In fact, they all want more of it. It's time to establish an international system they all say. Do away with the gun culture, the same way other problems, like global warming, arms proliferation, human rights violations, etc., all need to be tackled. But, first you have to deal with the USA. A country where 40% of the adults own firearms. A country where so many are so dumb as to think that just having more guns and more guns is going to make them safer. If you have a country where it is harder to buy Sudafed than a gun, just what do you think is going to happen? It's not so hard to figure this out, unless you are blinded by idealogy.
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» you want a cherry-picked stat?
Posted by: Iconoclast421
» Do the population stats make any difference?
Posted by: Wassermann
» RE: A Country Where Buying Sudafed Is Harder than Buying a Gun
Posted by: dll932
» RE: A Country Where Buying Sudafed Is Harder than Buying a Gun
Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: A Country Where Buying Sudafed Is Harder than Buying a Gun
Posted by: dll932
» Buying Sudafed
Posted by: YogiBear
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Just a Dad on Apr 17, 2007 3:38 PM
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Posted by: Wassermann on Apr 17, 2007 4:42 PM
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If 2nd Amendment rights are further reduced, there will be NOTHING preventing the current U.S. government from spiraling further in to tyranny because the citizens will be left totally defenseless/offenseless.
Or do you all propose bringing down a tyrannical government (should it ever come to that) by using pitchforks, homemade torches, and posters?
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» RE: You all totally misunderstand the 2nd Amendment
Posted by: MartianBachelor
» RE: You all totally misunderstand the 2nd Amendment
Posted by: YogiBear
» yeah! pull your gun out in front of 1600 Penn Ave.
Posted by: nor cal surfer
» we can't get half that to vote!
Posted by: nor cal surfer
Comments are closed-
Posted by: nor cal surfer on Apr 17, 2007 4:54 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
arming this fucktard population w/an average IQ of a 90-100 is like giving matches to a child. especially in light of the preference for Jack Bauer torture over Janet Jackson titties. we are programatically predisposed to accept hyper-violence as a means to an end, and totally freak out over mother nature and her God given products (yeah, throw weed in there too). hmmm. i sense a basic of fear of women. holdovers from the Gaian age >5,000 years ago, guys?
c-mon, people. this starts with guns and it ends with guns. make every gun illegal. the constitution is ready for that ammendment. NRA: go fuck yourself.
after all, NRA freaks: you really wanna point your Glock at an incoming A10 Warthog? if every gun was illegal for civilians to own, you'd be more worried about your lotto chances than some offKilter idiot kicking in your door w/an automatic weapon. right now, as it stands, you do, and your insanity/fantasy is part of that status-fucked-up-quo.
look, you know it's easy folks:
1) leave weaponry to professional soldiers. U.S. people: don't give me the Swiss bullshit either. they have a way more stitched together society that can obviously handle loaded machine guns in every house. you're still in Emotional Maturity Time Out Corner.
2) rebuild the education system. pay teachers more than lawyers (ie: switch the expeditures for defense w/education)
3) let the folks on TV curse, have sex. Fuck, we do it every day anyway. no more 10 bullets to the torso and the blond hero stumbles to his fallen Uzi to save the day at :56 in.
4) make drugs illegal. wow. you can finally pull that railroad tie out of your temple and you won't implode! imagine the revenues, time freed for REAL things, like catching rapists and thieves.
5) hmmm. that should do it. just see the above 4.
now. please prove me wrong. bring it.
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» typo: #4. make drugs LEGAL. typing too fast for my own good.
Posted by: nor cal surfer
» Now. I proved you wrong. I brought it.
Posted by: Wassermann
» good point. but it doesn't make the argument.
Posted by: nor cal surfer
» besides, you proved nothing. the average is between 90-100
Posted by: nor cal surfer
» And bowls for inspiration, right?
Posted by: MAD
» yeah--make drugs legal. i ammended that right off
Posted by: nor cal surfer
» and the reason yer confused, MAD, is cuz
Posted by: nor cal surfer
» Fairly hard to argue with someone whose main argument involves the word "fucktard"
Posted by: ateo
» lesson learned
Posted by: nor cal surfer
» RE: we need cars to drive, we need knives to cut food
Posted by: dll932
» i was totally upset writing this post. i live in VA
Posted by: nor cal surfer
Comments are closed-
Posted by: ateo on Apr 17, 2007 8:40 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Making guns more difficult to obtain wouldn't solve the problems in our society that create the people who commit these acts. If guns were more difficult to obtain then perhaps a person seeking to inflict pain and suffering upon society (which is really what their goal is, their indiscriminate killing can be explained no other way) would learn how to make a bomb and use that tactic. Bombs may kill more people, or less. It is, in all honesty, irrelevant.
Whether a man with a gun kills 32 people or a bomb kills 60 or a knife/sword kills 5 we have to ask the question, why is America producing people who feel they have no recourse but a suicidal rampage? It is a sign of sickness and decay not that America marginalizes people as America always has, but that the marginalized feel they have no means to exist in anything resembling happiness in our country.
In times past America marginalized groups of people to such a degree that they had every reason to strike back at those oppressing them. Think of native Americans, slaves, the mass poverty we have experienced at various times. Yet something kept them from acting out. What was that force? It was community, a sense of belonging in your own community even if the greater society shunned you. Community gave them a taste of happiness and hope in a country that was rigged against them. America has lost its sense of community to such a degree that an individual who is marginalized for whatever reason feels, rightly, completely alone with nobody to offer help or even advice.
Our consumerist society thrives because it produces people who want things they cannot obtain. This produces psychological conflict in individuals when their wants (that may be perceived as needs) are not met. Hence you have the rants against "rich kids." Every American is chasing the same dream and not every one of us is going to reach it.
Americans today are much better off than Americans in the past but even the children of middle class people will describe their childhood in terms that indicate that they were left wanting. In reality most of them were left wanting, that's the nature of our culture. I've met people who grew up in an upper middle class suburb of D.C. that believe they were poor growing up. In fact, I've rarely run into anyone who doesn't think that they were deprived as children even if they grew up in a stable middle class family in one of the wealthiest areas of the country. Everyone's reaching for the brass ring and it's moving continuously away from our grasp.
People fail because they set unrealistic goals that, if somehow accomplished, would allow them to buy all of the things they want. When these failures occur they seek someone to blame and in America blaming oneself is the last thing we do so they naturally conclude that they have been held back by society at large and seek revenge by inflicting as much pain as possible on those perceived to have held them back. So a lack of community to act as a safety net combined with unattainable wants generated by our consumer society produces miserable people out for revenge.
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» yes! nailed great points, ateo
Posted by: nor cal surfer
» RE: Guns or not, America is a sick and decaying society
Posted by: Topaz
» RE: Guns or not, America is a sick and decaying society
Posted by: dll932
Comments are closed-
Posted by: ateo on Apr 17, 2007 8:49 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Middle class parents send their kids to college assuming they will be safe for a few years and maybe learn how to be an adult. Poor parents send their kids to Iraq and just hope they come back alive and remotely sane. There is a personal connection to the college environment for many people. That brings this attack home for them making it seem very personal.
All I can say is that as society breaks down, as the vast emptiness that is life without a community to support you grows to encompass more Americans, as the safety nets disappear one by one, expect more attacks of this nature and worse. I tell you, it's enough to make an atheist contemplate seeking religion if only for the sense of belonging and community.
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» RE: Why people care about Virginia tech
Posted by: mcubed
» RE: Why people care about Virginia tech
Posted by: YogiBear
Comments are closed-
Posted by: mute on Apr 17, 2007 9:35 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
i come from a country that's been through war in the 1990s. the laws about possessing guns are more strict than in the US. before the war, there was virtually *no* people shooting people, for the simple reason people didn't own guns. after the war, the situation changed: there were weapons left in people's homes and this, together with the post-war climate in which tolerance for violence is diminished, lead to more gun violence (Still far far far less than in the US). now, considering that the US have been at war more or less for the whole of the twentieth century (including various secret operations, cold war paranoia, etc), that the country has an *unbelievably* militarized culture and that guns are available to whoever wants to buy them, i don't see how anyone is surprised things like this school shooting happen. it really sounds ridiculous to even hear people debate over "whether free gun possession lead to more gun violence" -- is that a real question!? of course they do. the hypernationalistic culture of war certainly helps, too. believe me, for most people in the world having the "right to bear arms" in the constitution sounds really scary (and explains why this is such a violent country).
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» RE: permanent war & weapons for all
Posted by: dll932
Comments are closed-
Posted by: White middleclass male on Apr 17, 2007 10:53 PM
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» RE: Simple as this:
Posted by: YogiBear
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Posted by: Lector on Apr 18, 2007 12:10 AM
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Banning guns will not reduce violence. Knife crimes would go up. The gun-runners would get rich, etc. etc. Find the causes of the sickness in our society that makes people use guns to deal with their personal problems and we'll have less to worry about.
Robert Lightfoot
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» RE: Guns, weapons are not the problem
Posted by: blaine s
» RE: Guns, weapons are not the problem
Posted by: cynicl
» RE: Guns, weapons are not the problem
Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: Guns, weapons are not the problem
Posted by: dll932
» A gun makes the will easier at a distance
Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: A gun makes the will easier at a distance
Posted by: dll932
» RE: A gun makes the will easier at a distance
Posted by: YogiBear
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Posted by: breakingatoms on Apr 18, 2007 7:19 AM
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Why do these kind of violent acts occur? You have no solution for them that is why. Laws won’t stop them. Christianity won’t stop them. The education system won’t stop them. This is your lifestyle. This is how you are. This is the American dream. This is democracy at its best. This is the good old days, the future, and the past. This every thing you hoped it would be. This is your worst nightmare taken place on a picture perfect day with a happy ending. This is a piece of our favorite puzzle that most of us dread putting together because we don’t want to see the big picture. It’s a brand new present wrapped in red paper that you cannot open for all eternity, but that has a list of every thing you should do contained within it. This is progress, modernity, and democracy, liberty, and justice for all. It’s the pursuit of happiness. This is what our forefathers intended.
Please don’t let my disdain for you mourning idiots lead you to believe that I don’t care about the victims of this shooting. To be honest I don’t care that they died, but I do hope that at least a few them were prepared to let go and leave this world behind other wise they could be right back here and possibly die again the same way. That’s really all that matters to me regarding this incident. Fuck bush.
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» Alright, another crazy person chimes in
Posted by: ateo
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Posted by: argos on Apr 18, 2007 8:25 AM
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Unfortunately, your notion is representative of the opinions held by members of all races which I think reflects deeper human impulses on which you yourself reflect eg.”... the fact that people get along better with people that look like them than others...”. This is quite a bit to presume on the behalf of most humans. What people look like is a superficial index and only a limited aspect of who they are. There’s a lot more to “getting along” with other humans than skin pigment, clothing or even common ancestry. If you have not discovered this, you are definitely missing out on or overlooking a key life experience.
I would caution you, and those who would agree with you to look more deeply into this phenomenon and think of yourself as a member of the human race.
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Posted by: govindas on Apr 18, 2007 5:21 PM
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By the mercy of the Lord,we cannot easily,though some hypnotists and yogis can,see our last lives and what sort of persons we were before.Such arrangement is expertly done by divine ways,so as people are brought together in this lifetime,and repair whatever injustice or good actions they have done in past lives.
US soldiers in the past have been in Asiatic countries,and have mercilessly killed,thinking there won't be any reactions in future,as they were just obeying a President.
But any single action is recorded at high level,and has to be paid eventually,if not in this lifetime,it will be in the next.
Wise persons are very careful not to indulge in wrongful actions,knowing this eternal law,that works in spite of one's disbelief in such law.
Many people act just like robots,brainwashed by false "religions",and politicians,thinking they are eternally protected by such higher authorities and divine powers.
But any person knows what is wrong or right,as the Lord is present in each of us:it's the voice of our conscience,our soul,who is linked with God.
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Posted by: YogiBear on Apr 19, 2007 12:44 AM
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» RE: I watched Bowling for Columbine
Posted by: dll932
» RE: I watched Bowling for Columbine
Posted by: anonymous_6
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Posted by: dignify on May 12, 2007 8:04 AM
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Posted by: spayed on May 12, 2007 8:59 AM
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Posted by: screwball on May 12, 2007 9:09 AM
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Posted by: zoroastrian on May 12, 2007 10:35 AM
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Posted by: guybjones on Apr 17, 2007 7:43 AM
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The human mind is complex, unpredictable, and yes, largely intangible, even to this day. We are animals, still, despite our lofty aspirations. This is the reality, end of story.
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» RE: Very Silly...
Posted by: ccnygal13
» I beg to differ...
Posted by: guybjones
» What's your explanation
Posted by: geoff_canuck
» RE: What's your explanation
Posted by: Blue Heron
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Posted by: White middleclass male on Apr 17, 2007 7:53 AM
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The left is always exalting country's like Norway and Finland for their social programs like universal health care. How diverse are the people in those countries? How does 6'5'' Blue eyed blond haired Sven Jorganson respond when an olive skinned 5'6'' Turkish man named Mohamed wants a piece of his pie (or danish what ever the case may be).
There is nothing you can do about it really as far as America goes. It just pisses me off that no one wants to acknowledge the fact that people get along better with people that look like them than others. This is not exclusive to people that fit the description of my user name either.
Off topic but:
If I am white, They are black/brown/yellow/red
If they are African/Latin/Asian/native American, I am a European American.
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» RE: Heterogeneity
Posted by: Ahimsa
» RE: Heterogeneity
Posted by: jaby
» "...nothing you can do about it really..." Oh yeah? Read the posts that follow.
Posted by: Sojourner
» RE: "...nothing you can do about it really..." Oh yeah? Read the posts that follow.
Posted by: Suburban Dad
» RE: Heterogeneity
Posted by: Suburban Dad
» RE: Heterogeneity
Posted by: texshelters
» RE: Heterogeneity
Posted by: mcubed
» GUESS YOU DONT KNOW YOUR SCANDINAVIAN HISTORY
Posted by: HistArch
» RE: GUESS YOU DONT KNOW YOUR SCANDINAVIAN HISTORY
Posted by: MarcusA
» Population density
Posted by: suprmark
» Don't be dissuaded by the doubters - You're onto something
Posted by: ateo
» RE: Heterogeneity, and its absurdity
Posted by: argos
» RE: Heterogeneity
Posted by: jisangNY1
» RE: Heterogeneity
Posted by: latin11368
» This kind of comment...
Posted by: latin11368
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Posted by: frosty86 on Apr 17, 2007 8:08 AM
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Unfortunately, Michael Moore's film never once focused on the issue of gender and masculinity. These school shootings are not "kids killing kids." The perpetrators are overwhelmingly boys and men. Over 95% of all violent crimes are committed by men, so this is a gendered phenomenon. We need to reflect on the messages we are giving young men and women about what it means to be a "real man" or simply to be a man. Given the violence and hyper-masculinity depicted in movies and music videos along with the militarization of our culture, young boys learn that violence and aggression is an appropriate way to handle disagreement and express themselves. And when it comes to sexual violence, women are overwhelmingly the victims of ovewhelmingly male perpetrators.
Can we please stop depoliticizing these events by chalking them up to individual weirdos who snap one day and actually focus on how our larger culture plays a role??
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» RE: Socialization, Culture, and Gender
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Socialization, Culture, and Gender
Posted by: Lauren
» It's not the "culture of violence" or "video games"....Its the perfect blond's on TV
Posted by: psychochurch
» RE: It's not the "culture of violence" or "video games"....Its the perfect blond's on TV
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: It's not the "culture of violence" or "video games"....Its the perfect blond's on TV
Posted by: jroth420
» RE: It's not the "culture of violence" or "video games"....Its the perfect blond's on TV
Posted by: zyxwvut
» RE: It's not the "culture of violence" or "video games"....Its the perfect blond's on TV
Posted by: psychochurch
» RE: It's not the "culture of violence" or "video games"....Its the perfect blond's on TV
Posted by: zyxwvut
» RE: It's not the "culture of violence" or "video games"....Its the perfect blond's on TV
Posted by: psychochurch
» 180 degrees
Posted by: Iconoclast421
» People are animals and men are killers - this is natural
Posted by: ateo
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Posted by: xbj on Apr 17, 2007 8:14 AM
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Already the morons are yelling "More guns!!! More guns!!! GUNS would have prevented this!"
Yeah, until the first armed teacher goes postal on her class and takes out every single student.
Gun nuts never think, not for a single second. What do you expect of idiots that think owning an arsenal is going to stand up to a government tank and ATF SWAT team at the front door? Did their arsenal save Waco, Gun Nuts? Did their arsenal save Ruby Ridge? Or more your speed, Jonestown?
On the contrary, when the government brings a tank to your next door neighbor to take out THEIR moronic arsenal, you're just liable to lose a couple of kids and family members in the shootout if you can't get the hell out and away from the firefight in time.
Gun nuts are probably the stupidest most suicidal people on earth, and the real pity is they really see themselves as "survivalists." Pawns for a multi-billion dollar industry that is backed by the elite for the sole purpose of having an idiot populace KILL EACH OTHER so they won't have to.
Good luck when that tank shows up at your front door, and trust me; it WILL.
Friggin' morons. Is de-arming society the answer then?
Duh. De-arming these nuts means that when the tank comes, everyone at least survives.
But no, that's too logical for gun NUTS. They all need to go out in the wilderness WITH THEIR GUNS and live in caves... caves can stand up to tanks. Until an ATF shoulder-fired bunker buster improves the overall intelligence of the human race.
And Charlton Heston? Don't get me STARTED on that tired-out old whore...
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» RE: A field day for the gun nut lobby
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: A field day for the gun nut lobby
Posted by: suprmark
» RE: A field day for the gun nut lobby
Posted by: dover23
» RE: A field day for the gun nut lobby
Posted by: xbj
» obi-wan
Posted by: funknjunk
» RE: obi-wan
Posted by: xbj
» RE: A field day for the nutty gun grabbers
Posted by: apophenia_monkey
» RE: A field day for the nutty gun grabbers
Posted by: xbj
» RE: A field day for the nutty gun grabbers
Posted by: apophenia_monkey
» RE: A field day for the nutty gun grabbers
Posted by: xbj
» LEEEEROOOOOY JEEEEENNNNNNKIIIINSSSS!
Posted by: apophenia_monkey
» RE: LEEEEROOOOOY JEEEEENNNNNNKIIIINSSSS!
Posted by: xbj
» This Exchange
Posted by: apophenia_monkey
» RE: This Exchange
Posted by: xbj
» RE: This Exchange
Posted by: apophenia_monkey
» RE: This Exchange
Posted by: xbj
» RE: This Exchange
Posted by: apophenia_monkey
» RE: This Exchange
Posted by: xbj
» RE: A field day for the nutty gun grabbers
Posted by: dover23
» RE: A field day for the nutty gun grabbers
Posted by: xbj
» Problem with Bans
Posted by: timebomb734
» RE: Problem with Bans
Posted by: xbj
» Hitler was for gun control
Posted by: Iconoclast421
» RE: Hitler was for gun control - So is Jesus
Posted by: xbj
» RE: Hitler was for gun control - So is Jesus
Posted by: apophenia_monkey
» RE: Hitler was for gun control - So is Jesus
Posted by: xbj
» RE: Hitler was for gun control - So is Jesus
Posted by: apophenia_monkey
» RE: Hitler was for gun control - So is Jesus
Posted by: xbj
» RE: Hitler was for gun control - So is Jesus
Posted by: apophenia_monkey
» RE: Hitler was for gun control - So is Jesus
Posted by: xbj
» RE: Hitler was for gun control - So is Jesus
Posted by: apophenia_monkey
» RE: Hitler was for gun control - So is Jesus
Posted by: xbj
» RE: Hitler was for gun control - So is Jesus
Posted by: apophenia_monkey
» RE: Hitler was for gun control - So is Jesus
Posted by: xbj
» RE: Hitler was for gun control - So is Jesus
Posted by: apophenia_monkey
» RE: You contradict yourself so many times it is rather amusing to read...
Posted by: blaine s
» RE: it sure didn't last beyond 2007, did it?...
Posted by: blaine s
» RE: i meant 2000 (nm)
Posted by: blaine s
» RE: it sure didn't last beyond 2007, did it?...
Posted by: xbj
» RE: it sure didn't last beyond 2007, did it?...
Posted by: blaine s
» RE: it sure didn't last beyond 2007, did it?...
Posted by: xbj
» RE: A field day for the gun nut lobby
Posted by: dll932
» RE: A field day for the gun nut lobby
Posted by: xbj
» RE: A field day for the gun nut lobby
Posted by: dll932
» RE: A field day for the gun nut lobby
Posted by: xbj
» RE: A field day for the gun nut lobby
Posted by: dll932
» RE: A field day for the gun nut lobby
Posted by: xbj
» RE: A field day for the gun nut lobby
Posted by: dll932
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Posted by: rtmyth on Apr 17, 2007 8:27 AM
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» One single weapon in opposition to the killer would have saved lives. (nm)
Posted by: alaskagrrl
» RE: One single weapon in opposition to the killer would have saved lives. (nm)
Posted by: YogiBear
» One single weapon
Posted by: YogiBear
Comments are closed-
Posted by: dbatterman on Apr 17, 2007 8:55 AM
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(And if the "nuts" were de-armed when the tank arrived, they still wouldn't survive. Tell that to the unarmed people who have been killed in Iraq.)
There are a million ways to look at this tradgedy, and the article did a good job of not pointing the finger at one scapegoat but recommending a movie which takes a broader view. It's easy to point and scream "NRA BAD! GUN CONTROL GOOD!" but it doesn't change anything in the real world.
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» RE: Using the same tactics?
Posted by: yellow
» RE: Using the same tactics?
Posted by: dll932
» RE: Using the same tactics?
Posted by: xbj
» RE: Using the same tactics?
Posted by: dll932
» RE: Using the same tactics?
Posted by: xbj
» RE: Using the same tactics?
Posted by: dll932
» RE: Using the same tactics?
Posted by: xbj
» RE: Using the same tactics?
Posted by: dll932
» RE: Using the same tactics?
Posted by: xbj
» RE: Using the same tactics?
Posted by: xbj
Comments are closed-
Posted by: J- on Apr 17, 2007 9:01 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And I agree, even though I'm going to hear about it, that this didn't really have anything to with guns. Remember, it could have just as easily been a rented truck full of fertilizer and diesel fuel.
Furthermore, I'd like to point out that comparisons to Columbine should be on an environmental and sociological level, and not from a physical security standpoint. Securing a single building is much easier to do, and to respond to incidents in, than a 2600 acre campus.
Please, above all, don't resort to name calling or yelling. That's not going to help. Real discourse is what is needed, and back to my earlier statement, blaming inanimate objects, while easy, will never solve anything. Things we should be talking about are a failure or lack of a public mental health infrastructure, the dominance of athletics within the academic environments or possibly the effect of media on society in general.
Read Mark Ames book, Going Postal, and then see if it's still a black and white issue.
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» Good Post!! The problem really is that America is suffering from a sick spirit...
Posted by: psychochurch
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Posted by: alaskagrrl on Apr 17, 2007 9:13 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If I hadn’t had that weapon, I would be dead. Don’t assume anything about my judgment, I am a professional wilderness guide with unassailable credentials.
Sometimes, what you need is a handy weapon. Sorta like those poor students in VA.
If I were there, I could have laid down cover fire while at least some of the students escaped. Even with his bullet proof vest I would have likely ended the catastrophe with a head shot. That’s because I know how to handle my weapon.
In Alaska we have no concealed permit laws. We simply have a right to arm ourselves. NOT from the government, such assumption is foolish. We arm ourselves against Criminals. Even little old ladies carry arms in their purses, and you know what ?
Criminals pause....
I have to ask the Gun Control People this question: When confronted what are you supposed to do to protect yourself ? Dial 911 ? Give me a break....
That’s takes a lot of faith. I have more faith in my trained hand and weapon. Are you folks so generous that you would sacrifice your own lives for the presumed ‘greater good’ that comes from an unarmed society ?
That last question is best answered when you are facing death. Or better yet, when your child is facing death. Then imagine yourself with a gun.
Would you use it -- or would you roll over and die for your beliefs ?
Be honest.
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» RE: Stop Calling ME Nuts !
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Stop Calling ME Nuts !
Posted by: texshelters
» Guns make sense for you, but we don't want everyone carrying one . . .
Posted by: Moonray
» RE: Guns make sense for you, but we don't want everyone carrying one . . .
Posted by: YogiBear
» Yes....but the question is...where are all the criminals coming from???
Posted by: psychochurch
» RE: Stop Calling ME Nuts !
Posted by: xbj
» IN THE LOWER 48 WE DONT NEED GUNS
Posted by: HistArch
» Apparently you do need guns. I know I do... because I'm a hate crime target.
Posted by: alaskagrrl
» You ignorant Slut...
Posted by: alaskagrrl
» RE: You ignorant Slut...
Posted by: xbj
» RE: You ignorant Slut...
Posted by: argos
» RE: IN THE LOWER 48 WE DONT NEED GUNS
Posted by: dll932
» RE: Stop Calling ME Nuts !
Posted by: JMorse
» RE: Stop Calling ME Nuts !
Posted by: sweetlou
» I'm alive today because I won that face-off with a Moose. 30 years of life well enjoyed.
Posted by: alaskagrrl
» RE: Stop Calling ME Nuts !
Posted by: suprmark
» O yeah, your "head shot" boast makes me trust your judgement....
Posted by: supercrisp
» RE: O yeah, your "head shot" boast makes me trust your judgement....
Posted by: sweetlou
» Oh right, my bad....
Posted by: supercrisp
» Purse sized Glock. If you want to continue fantasizing. (nm)
Posted by: alaskagrrl
» RE: Oh right, my bad....
Posted by: YogiBear
» Tele said this AM he was wearing body armor... if you want the lingo read on.
Posted by: alaskagrrl
» RE: Stop Calling ME Nuts !
Posted by: Rathan47
Comments are closed-
Posted by: CatDad on Apr 17, 2007 9:21 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The media/entertainment industry will not pull back from violent shows/movies/games....they're too profitable. This nation is saturated with guns and with Tim McVeigh we already know what will happen if people perceive that their guns are going to be taken away. The Dems have so compromised themselves on economic issues that they jump all over themselves (like Kerry) to show that they love guns too.
The best we can do is work on intervention and school safety/lockdown strategies. The Right Wing has basically won on the issue of gun ownership. Congratulations guys...hope you’re happy.
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» This problem goes far deeper than guns, neither side has even acknowledged the problem...
Posted by: ateo
» RE: This problem...
Posted by: blaine s
» RE: Between a Rock and a Hard Place...
Posted by: dll932
Comments are closed-
Posted by: texshelters on Apr 17, 2007 9:34 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The logic of the radical gun lobby is without parellel. So let's look at it.
1. Guns don't kill people, people do...but how many people can you really kill more than one person at a time with a kitchen knife. Guns make it really easy to kill.
2. Cars kill people, why not ban cars. It's easier in many states to get a gun than a car, and guns were designed for one thing, to kill. Cars were not designed to kill. Should we ban penicillin because some people are alergic to it?
3. Doctors cause more accidental deaths than guns, so ban doctors. Maybe doctors do cause more "accidental deaths", but few doctors cause intential death. All gun deaths are intentional.
4. If you criminalize guns, only criminals will have guns. So, we should allow anyone to have crack because if we ban crack, only crackheads will use crack. Did anyone say we should fully ban guns? Perhaps we should have background and personality checks before letting everyone and anyone have a gun. Perhaps an automatic weapon isn't needed to stop an intruder or hunt deer. Why not ban the manufacture and sale of these weapons?
5. More guns, less crime. Having more guns has not been proven to reduce crime. There are many more factors that have been shown to reduce crime, and it's not gun ownership. It's inaccurate statistic like this that prevent us from dealing with gun violence in our society.
6. Why do places with stricter gun laws have more gun violence? BECAUSE THE LAWS WERE PASSED DUE TO THE HIGH RATE OF GUN VIOLENCE! Gun laws don't cause gun violence, they are a reaction to the violence.
The paranoia and cowardous of the "guns at any cost" crowd is astounding. The same set of Bush/Limbaugh lies are used to scare people into the belief that 1) there are people out there who want to take away all of your guns, and 2) you will actually be safer with a gun.
I don't care if individuals have guns. However, can't we enact common sense safe guards to prevent massacres like the one at Va. Tech?
Culture, psychology, political climate, and economics all have to do with gun violence. Keep guns out of the hands of criminals, the mentally unstable, and the anti-social personalities, and ban multi-shot weapons only created to kill en masse, and that would be a good start. Sure, guns don't kill people, but it makes it easier for people like Cho Seung-Hui to kill dozens of people before being stopped.
Should massacres like this be the price we pay to defend the second amendment at all costs? Or should we accept things the way they are, throw up our hands and say, "shoot away".
Joe Tex
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» A couple of points...
Posted by: dbatterman
» RE: A couple of points...
Posted by: psychochurch
» Gun shows
Posted by: texshelters
» RE: Gun shows
Posted by: dbatterman
» The issue is not about guns.....
Posted by: psychochurch
» RE: The issue is not about guns.....
Posted by: texshelters
» RE: The issue is not about guns.....
Posted by: psychochurch
» RE: The issue is not about guns.....
Posted by: texshelters
» RE: Gun don't kill...blah blah blah
Posted by: Iconoclast421
» RE: Gun don't kill...blah blah blah
Posted by: texshelters
» RE: Gun don't kill...blah blah blah
Posted by: dll932
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Posted by: alterpa123 on Apr 17, 2007 9:42 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Pot meet kettle.
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» RE: You wrote this exploitative essay before the bodies were even cold.
Posted by: texshelters
» STATEMENT BY THE NRA
Posted by: ateo
» RE: STATEMENT BY THE NRA
Posted by: texshelters
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Moonray on Apr 17, 2007 9:49 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Most gun owners should be allowed to own only revolvers and single-shot rifles and shotguns, and a few rounds of ammo for self-protection, with tough penalties for owning more. Target shooting would have to take place in gun clubs.
Metal detectors should be installed in virtually all public places.
Those tough guys who claim they would never give up their guns would change their tune fast if the first few violators received stiff jail terms. Enough is enough.
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» RE: Time to get rid of most semiautomatics -- and especially ammo
Posted by: hole11
» RE: Time to get rid of most semiautomatics -- and especially ammo
Posted by: jroth420
» Your screenname is most accurate . . .
Posted by: Moonray
» I AGREE
Posted by: HistArch
» Good idea, but I disagree on some details
Posted by: supercrisp
» You make some very good points . . .
Posted by: Moonray
» gun law changes after Port Arthur
Posted by: Ames
» RE: Yes, let's destroy the bill of rights! then we can make all sorts of crazy laws!
Posted by: ateo
» RE: Yes, let's destroy the bill of rights! then we can make all sorts of crazy laws!
Posted by: texshelters
» RE: Time to get rid of most semiautomatics -- and especially ammo
Posted by: dll932
Comments are closed-
Posted by: PJH67 on Apr 17, 2007 10:00 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: If gun control works....
Posted by: xbj
» RE: If gun control works....
Posted by: sweetlou
» RE: If gun control works....
Posted by: xbj
» RE: If gun control works....
Posted by: sweetlou
» RE: If gun control works....
Posted by: xbj
» RE: If gun control works....
Posted by: sweetlou
» RE: If gun control works....
Posted by: xbj
» RE: If gun control works....
Posted by: sweetlou
» RE: If gun control works....
Posted by: xbj
» RE: If gun control works....
Posted by: sweetlou
» RE: If gun control works....
Posted by: xbj
» RE: If gun control works....
Posted by: sweetlou
» RE: If gun control works....
Posted by: xbj
» Because gun control doesn't work, it just turns every law abiding citizen into an easy victim - N/M
Posted by: ateo
» RE: There are far worse things in life than being an innocent victim
Posted by: dll932
» RE: There are far worse things in life than being an innocent victim
Posted by: dll932
» RE: Because gun control doesn't work, it just turns every law abiding citizen into an easy victim - N/M
Posted by: texshelters
» RE: Because gun control doesn't work, it just turns every law abiding citizen into an easy victim -
Posted by: dll932
» RE: Because gun control doesn't work, it just turns every law abiding citizen into an easy victim -
Posted by: xbj
» RE: Because gun control doesn't work, it just turns every law abiding citizen into an easy victim -
Posted by: dll932
Comments are closed-
Posted by: hole11 on Apr 17, 2007 10:04 AM
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» Of what are you afraid?
Posted by: geoff_canuck
» Jackson Said Enforce The Supreme Court Ruling
Posted by: hole11
» Criminals for crying out loud ! You have too much faith in Saviors. (nm)
Posted by: alaskagrrl
Comments are closed-
Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Apr 17, 2007 10:14 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
On Tuesday around 100 people were killed, mostly in Baghdad, but the day's deadliest attack came from the twin blasts at the entrance of the renowned Mustansiriyah University in east Baghdad, security officials said.
The explosions ripped through dozens of students, teachers, and employees of the university as they were heading home at the end of the day, killing 65 and wounding 138.
The massive bombings left a number of nearby cars completely burned and many bodies charred in their parked vehicles, a witness said.
The dead and wounded were rushed to city hospitals in bed sheets, blankets, stretchers, and a number of pickup trucks.
Burned corpses could be seen lying on the street outside the university, their mobile telephones ringing unanswered, the photographer said.
(It was Mustansiriyah University)
NPR was running stories about the need for counseling for all the students at Virginia Tech after the tragic event, and that seems like the right thing to do - but NPR barely covered the Baghdad bombing.
What you see in the US was an immediate push by the NRA public relations team, all over the rightwing radio shows and blogs - yup, now's the time to push the 'right of citizens to bear arms' (oops - he wasn't a citizen, just someone who had no problem getting his hands on a weapon...) - just another public relations moment for the NRA.
300 people were killed in Iraq last weekend. Over the last ten days in Iraq, some 34 US soldiers have been killed, and who knows? 500 civilians? The media will try and play this up as some unique tragedy, but the public knows it's just more meaningless, inexplicable slaughter in an out-of-control world.
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» Thank you for these facts.
Posted by: tlCampbell
» RE: Thank you for these facts - ditto
Posted by: Ames
» Ah, but the middle class doesn't care about Iraq, they care about their spoiled kids in their...
Posted by: ateo
Comments are closed-
Posted by: fanny666 on Apr 17, 2007 10:26 AM
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The anti-immigration people will have a field day with it.
We all need to be vigilant as different groups try to manipulate the outpouring of grief and anger.
This is so sad. I wish humanity were going in a better direction. Sometimes it feels like taking a chisel to a mountain.
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» RE: verybody will use this to push their agendas
Posted by: dll932
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Posted by: fmindlin on Apr 17, 2007 10:42 AM
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"Virginia Tech ... is one of only two civilian universities in the US with a corps of cadets who undergo military training on campus. Until 1966 it was a requirement for all male students to have received military training."
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» RE: Totally unrelated to this situation, how pointless to even mention it - N/M
Posted by: blaine s
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Posted by: Iconoclast421 on Apr 17, 2007 10:41 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But tougher gun laws... what will that do? It's another one of those "but the border is wide open" issues. You aren't going to stop someone from premeditatively taking their own life and taking as many people with them as they can, if that is what they are hellbent on doing. If he could not have bought a gun he probably would have obtained one through some other means. And what if there were no guns? Do you know how many people one could mow down with an SUV? I'm not sure of the statistics, but I would not be surprised if SUVs kill more people than guns! Perhaps it is time to ban driving? And we should also have our hands chopped off because as we learned on 9/11, even a box cutter can do enormous damage. And we should all be lobotomized, because who knows what type of sadistic "weapons of moderate destruction" an errant mind might conjure? (Can you say ANFO?)
People need to understand that anyone can inflict harm on anyone at nearly any given moment if they so choose, and what keeps us from doing so is this thing called civility. Fear of god is pretty much a lost cause, and fear of punishment is irrelevant when someone has already chosen to pay with their own life. We really have only two choices... accept more of the prisoner's mindset, sacrificing liberty for security. Or work on this civility problem. Lack of empathy, consumerist isolationism, gross inequality, injustice, entrenched power... address those problems, or live like a slave in the world, and as a prisoner in your own mind. But hey, I guess as long as we have Jack Bauer that is an acceptable compromise.
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» RE: Words from a "Bowling for Columbine" fan
Posted by: jaby
» RE: Words from a "Bowling for Columbine" fan
Posted by: Iconoclast421
» RE: Words from a "Bowling for Columbine" fan
Posted by: jaby
» Arming the Citizenry Looks Pretty Foolish Right Now
Posted by: sofla100
» RE: Arming the Citizenry Looks Pretty Foolish Right Now
Posted by: Iconoclast421
» RE: Arming the Citizenry Looks Pretty Foolish Right Now
Posted by: YogiBear
» Feh, most people shouldn't be allowed to drive...
Posted by: supercrisp
» RE: Feh, most people shouldn't be allowed to drive...
Posted by: Iconoclast421
» RE: Words from a "Bowling for Columbine" fan
Posted by: YogiBear
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Blue Heron on Apr 17, 2007 11:10 AM
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» RE: Books? Culture? Art?
Posted by: Blue Heron
» RE: Worthless POS . . . Go Crawl Back Under Your Rock!
Posted by: Blue Heron
» RE: Worthless POS . . . Go Crawl Back Under Your Rock!
Posted by: MAD
» RE: Worthless POS . . . Go Crawl Back Under Your Rock!
Posted by: Blue Heron
» RE: Books? Culture? Art?
Posted by: dll932
Comments are closed-
Posted by: sofla100 on Apr 17, 2007 11:35 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
more guns, give everyone a gun, legally require gun ownership, issue a 9mm to every adolescent, child and adult.
When does it stop? When you go to Canada, a big sign at the border with a crossmark across a firearm greets American visitors. Keep your firearms out America. Our homicide rate and firearm tragedy death rate isn't 1/10th of yours. But, get this America, if you make the means of killing people legal and available, of course it will be used. It's just plain common sense that this is an invitation to disaster. Of course, we will hear the famliar refrain: "guns don't kill, people do." Well, nuclear weapons don't kill either, people do. Therefore, should we issue nukes to all private citizens? Same logic at work.
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» RE: Nothing but Inevitable
Posted by: Blue Heron
» RPGs for Christ
Posted by: amacd
» RE: Nothing but Inevitable
Posted by: dll932
Comments are closed-
Posted by: sgtstan on Apr 17, 2007 12:02 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
News reporters have become part of the news, rather than just reporters of facts. And to fill the time allowed them, reporters have already thrown out comments such as: “If only little Timmy didn’t have a gun, he wouldn’t have killed Susie” and “Could stricter gun regulations have prevented this tragedy?” It never fails to amuse that reporters rarely put the onus of responsibility on the individual who committed the crime.
And its not that all reporters are left-wing sociologists blaming society for every spilt cup of milk. They say these things because they don’t know what else to say. With their blank faces in front of a camera, they try to hold the audience’s attention by promising the latest details, while in reality they await the facts as fed them by the real investigators – the police.
But they never fail to revive the gun control issue.
I would suggest that, before any more of you embarrass yourselves blaming the NRA and “gun nuts,” educate yourselves. Simply put, not every gun owner joins nor supports the NRA, nor is every gun owner a “gun nut.” If you own a car or a pair of sneakers, does that make you a “car nut” or a “shoe nut?”
The following links take you to two articles regarding the recent rise in violent crime in Great Britain, despite heavier and stricter gun control since the 1950’s.
http://www.newsmax.com/articles/?a=2000/7/10/203335
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2001/3/21/205139
Also, please check out this book from John R. Lott, Jr., concerning the media coverage of firearms usage in this country: “The Bias against Guns.”
http://www.johnlott.org
And lastly, check out Dave Grossman’s “On Combat” for some fantastic insight into just about everything that has to do with firearms use, how our children are being trained to kill, etc.
http://www.amazon.com/Combat-Dave-Grossman/dp/0964920514
One more thing I find utterly reprehensible is the continued grading of such killings. “This is the worst killing of its kind in US history.” Doesn’t that just beg one-ups-manship? My wife said she hated to hear the extensive media comparisons of such killings for two reasons. First, instead of being treated as an aberration, the media will spread the fear of such actions nationwide (as usual.) Secondly, because it will successfully result in another similar scenario elsewhere. And not simply because a gun is available…
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» The right tool for the job
Posted by: supercrisp
» Please, stop making excuses . . .
Posted by: Moonray
» RE: Please, stop making excuses . . .
Posted by: dll932
» RE: Here It Comes Again
Posted by: yellow
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Posted by: blaine s on Apr 17, 2007 12:40 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Because, they are soooo law abiding....
This is more of a supply side issue. The manufacture needs to be limited, not the ability to responsibly own them.
Look at the statistics out of Australia sinced the forced gun ban; crime is up, notably armed robbery (especially against the elderly) and murder.
And if leaving it up to law enforcement to handle, why was the death toll so high? They were already on the scene before the majority of shots were fired.
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» Criminals are not as stupid as liberals seem to think
Posted by: ateo
» RE: Criminals are not as stupid as liberals seem to think...
Posted by: blaine s
» RE: under tighter gun control...
Posted by: dll932
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Lacr0ix on Apr 17, 2007 1:24 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Liberal cowards are always for "gun-control" (for everyone EXCEPT their paid bodyguards).
Self-protection is both a right and a responsibility. The case-law is clear that Police have no duty to protect people. They are charged with protection of "society". When it comes to violence, you're on your own, in the right-now.
I thought liberals were all about protecting the oppressed - the the poor, the weak, the sick, the elderly, THE WOMEN...
This is why liberals can't get elected in this country, because, like the so-called conservatives they don't respect ALL human rights. They want to pick and choose. Liberals want all human rights except the right of an old person or a single mother to protection from violent attack. Lately, conservatives seem to want just that one right, and let's forget the others.
Notice which one right the people cling to - the right of self-protection and survival...
Gun control discriminates most against minorities, the poor, the sick, the elderly, and WOMEN - the people who are in high-crime areas, and/or who can't adequately defend themselves against a large strong aggressive young male weilding a (completely legal) screwdriver or tire-iron.
What is it liberals - Are you for affording the woman protecion from rape - or is it that you think her right to aborting the resulting fetus will make everything just fine?
People commit crimes because - they're people, and some people are aggressive. It's in the NATURE of people. Aren't liberals supposed to be all secular and scientific? Don't they believe in DARWIN? The answer is in your own mouth - You have BOTH kinds of teeth.
When some people let out the monster, the only thing that will stop that monster - is a bullet. It's sad, it's ugly, it's even disgusting. But, it's a fact of life.
There have been "no gun" rules on every campus on which shootings have taken place. This is not called "safety". It's called delusion, because "no gun" zones are really "criminal empowerment zones" - places in which the aggressive predatory people know they are safe to attack the otherwise defenseless - the sick, the elderly and WOMEN.
There was only one thing that could have stopped that guy in VA from killing so many victims. It wasn't media control of violent "entertainment". It wasn't "more gun laws". It was just ONE - law-abiding, competent, upstanding citizen exercising their inalienable right to posess the means of self-protection - and then using that means in the terrible moment it was undeniably necessary.
This was a CRIME (not a "tragedy"). The tragedy of yesterday was that all those people were victimized by their school and their government when those institutions abrogated the students' right to life by denying them the lawful means of legal and necessary self-protection. All the criminial did was shoot them - The school and the state stripped them of protection and held them down while he did it.
Get over the irrational fear if inanimate objects. Knives, guns, chainsaws, decks of cards.
ALL civil rights are FOR ALL people. Not select civil rights for select people (and their bodyguards, cronies, etc).
The "liberals" are no better than the "conservatives" in this regard, and they will continue to LOSE elections until they embrace all civil rights for all people - including and especially the right of survival in the face of a violent attacker.
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» RE: Bodyguard
Posted by: craftne
» RE: I'm afraid
Posted by: Lacr0ix
» why liberals cant get elected
Posted by: Iconoclast421
Comments are closed-
Posted by: anniedine on Apr 17, 2007 1:36 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It takes advanced intelligence, advanced emotional maturity, and advanced mental strength to do the right thing. The right thing does not involve weapons or killing of any kind.
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» RE: Strong people don't need weapons to be strong
Posted by: Topaz
» What? What kind of new age crazy talk is this?
Posted by: ateo
» RE: Strong people don't need weapons to be strong
Posted by: Lacr0ix
» RE: Strong people don't need weapons to be strong
Posted by: Topaz
» RE: Strong people don't need weapons to be strong
Posted by: dll932
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Boomerang on Apr 17, 2007 1:53 PM
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Shame on both of you.
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Posted by: craftne on Apr 17, 2007 2:27 PM
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If you want to hunt or go to the range, rent guns.
Who do you trust to own a gun? How about neighbors? How about coworkers? Do you trust the sanity of those around you? School bus drivers? Bank tellers? What if you knew every retail shop employee had a gun in his pocket?
Is this the way you want your world to be? 300 MILLION people with guns. How about bloggers with psychotic tendencies? Let's give guns to all schoolchildren to take to school. How about psychotics who aren't under treatment because they have the "right" not to have to be? Taxi cab drivers. Postmen. How about we bring them on trains and planes? To restaurants? We can shoot anyone who gives us bad service!
My family/friends are in a debate, and some don't trust the government or the police if we choose to enact very strict gun control. Further, they say the solution is looking into why gunmen go whacko.
Why he was so whacked out?
Look at the suicide rates.
Look at all the traumatised fearful people in the US.
Look at the anger levels.
Look at the sense of entitlement.
Look at unemployment.
Look at the lack of help for the middle class.
Look at companies like Circuit City, firing to hire more cheaply.
Look at the fundamentalism (Read "Under the Banner of Heaven: The Story of a Violent Faith")
Low at illiteracy.
Look at the levels of mental problems.
Addiction.
IQ levels.
How uncommon a response do you think it is if a gun is within reach or easily obtained? How sane do you believe those around YOU are?
I lived in Australia for 5 of the past 7 years. The difference in living there with strict gun control laws is simply amazing. In 1996, this happened:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_Arthur_massacre
Australia had the same kind of "right". After the massacre, very strict gun control was enacted, and now it's very safe. In Sydney, I went to ATMs at night, I rode public transport at night, I didn't have to clutch my purse close or worry about where I walked. I LIVED the difference.
I don't trust John Howard either, but I was very safe. I don't feel safe here. I'm not as desensitised as all of you.
We are NOT taught to take responsibility - even our leaders, by example, blame everyone else – look at the blame game surrounding this tragedy already.
While our government could become a threat, and the police could become a threat, statistics show this is not the case in Western countries where they've chosen to adopt strict gun control.
I distrust regular people more. With the greed, selfishness, narrow-mindedness, fundamentalism, a huge sense of entitlement in America, violence becomes commonplace. Your coworker could be the one gone over the edge next. You could lose your wife, your kids, your parents, your brother, anyone. You could die. YOU.
Second shootings at VT since this school year began.
How many murders and suicides will it take before we realise that guns are the problem? Look at the chart and statistics here:
http://www.nsc.org/lrs/statinfo/odds.htm
Look at "Intentional Self Harm". The numbers jump 300% when a gun is introduced. Look at "Operations of war and sequelae" and "Legal intervention with firearm". Suicide is the 5th biggest killer, firearm assault is 7th. The odds you will die in war - is minuscule.
You have the right to bear a kitchen knife. Past that, I don't trust regular citizens. Nope. Not at all.
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» If you're going to talk about talking sense, then first start talking sense?
Posted by: Iconoclast421
» spot on! love your points
Posted by: nor cal surfer
» RE: spot on! love your points
Posted by: craftne
» RE: Talking Sense, not ego and entitlement
Posted by: dll932
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Just a Dad on Apr 17, 2007 2:29 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Just a game?
Posted by: fanny666
» RE: Just a game?
Posted by: Just a Dad
» RE: Just a game?
Posted by: MrAllen
» RE: Just a game?
Posted by: Iconoclast421
» RE: Just a game?
Posted by: Just a Dad
» i just watched that clip. thanks for letting me know about it... but i
Posted by: nor cal surfer
» RE: i just watched that clip. thanks for letting me know about it... but i
Posted by: Just a Dad
» i hear ya... and they will. i would heartily embrace a video
Posted by: nor cal surfer
» RE: i hear ya... and they will. i would heartily embrace a video
Posted by: Just a Dad
» thank you. good words.
Posted by: nor cal surfer
» RE: Just a game?
Posted by: Topaz
» RE: Just a game?
Posted by: Just a Dad
» RE: Just a game?
Posted by: Topaz
Comments are closed-
Posted by: sofla100 on Apr 17, 2007 2:58 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is even after you figure in all the guns smuggled into the country from the USA (a big problem Canada has confronted Bush about).
As for USA pro gun people and their cherry picked stats, I have news for them, not a single country in the world with good gun control is getting rid of it. In fact, they all want more of it. It's time to establish an international system they all say. Do away with the gun culture, the same way other problems, like global warming, arms proliferation, human rights violations, etc., all need to be tackled. But, first you have to deal with the USA. A country where 40% of the adults own firearms. A country where so many are so dumb as to think that just having more guns and more guns is going to make them safer. If you have a country where it is harder to buy Sudafed than a gun, just what do you think is going to happen? It's not so hard to figure this out, unless you are blinded by idealogy.
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» you want a cherry-picked stat?
Posted by: Iconoclast421
» Do the population stats make any difference?
Posted by: Wassermann
» RE: A Country Where Buying Sudafed Is Harder than Buying a Gun
Posted by: dll932
» RE: A Country Where Buying Sudafed Is Harder than Buying a Gun
Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: A Country Where Buying Sudafed Is Harder than Buying a Gun
Posted by: dll932
» Buying Sudafed
Posted by: YogiBear
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Just a Dad on Apr 17, 2007 3:38 PM
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Posted by: Wassermann on Apr 17, 2007 4:42 PM
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If 2nd Amendment rights are further reduced, there will be NOTHING preventing the current U.S. government from spiraling further in to tyranny because the citizens will be left totally defenseless/offenseless.
Or do you all propose bringing down a tyrannical government (should it ever come to that) by using pitchforks, homemade torches, and posters?
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» RE: You all totally misunderstand the 2nd Amendment
Posted by: MartianBachelor
» RE: You all totally misunderstand the 2nd Amendment
Posted by: YogiBear
» yeah! pull your gun out in front of 1600 Penn Ave.
Posted by: nor cal surfer
» we can't get half that to vote!
Posted by: nor cal surfer
Comments are closed-
Posted by: nor cal surfer on Apr 17, 2007 4:54 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
arming this fucktard population w/an average IQ of a 90-100 is like giving matches to a child. especially in light of the preference for Jack Bauer torture over Janet Jackson titties. we are programatically predisposed to accept hyper-violence as a means to an end, and totally freak out over mother nature and her God given products (yeah, throw weed in there too). hmmm. i sense a basic of fear of women. holdovers from the Gaian age >5,000 years ago, guys?
c-mon, people. this starts with guns and it ends with guns. make every gun illegal. the constitution is ready for that ammendment. NRA: go fuck yourself.
after all, NRA freaks: you really wanna point your Glock at an incoming A10 Warthog? if every gun was illegal for civilians to own, you'd be more worried about your lotto chances than some offKilter idiot kicking in your door w/an automatic weapon. right now, as it stands, you do, and your insanity/fantasy is part of that status-fucked-up-quo.
look, you know it's easy folks:
1) leave weaponry to professional soldiers. U.S. people: don't give me the Swiss bullshit either. they have a way more stitched together society that can obviously handle loaded machine guns in every house. you're still in Emotional Maturity Time Out Corner.
2) rebuild the education system. pay teachers more than lawyers (ie: switch the expeditures for defense w/education)
3) let the folks on TV curse, have sex. Fuck, we do it every day anyway. no more 10 bullets to the torso and the blond hero stumbles to his fallen Uzi to save the day at :56 in.
4) make drugs illegal. wow. you can finally pull that railroad tie out of your temple and you won't implode! imagine the revenues, time freed for REAL things, like catching rapists and thieves.
5) hmmm. that should do it. just see the above 4.
now. please prove me wrong. bring it.
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» typo: #4. make drugs LEGAL. typing too fast for my own good.
Posted by: nor cal surfer
» Now. I proved you wrong. I brought it.
Posted by: Wassermann
» good point. but it doesn't make the argument.
Posted by: nor cal surfer
» besides, you proved nothing. the average is between 90-100
Posted by: nor cal surfer
» And bowls for inspiration, right?
Posted by: MAD
» yeah--make drugs legal. i ammended that right off
Posted by: nor cal surfer
» and the reason yer confused, MAD, is cuz
Posted by: nor cal surfer
» Fairly hard to argue with someone whose main argument involves the word "fucktard"
Posted by: ateo
» lesson learned
Posted by: nor cal surfer
» RE: we need cars to drive, we need knives to cut food
Posted by: dll932
» i was totally upset writing this post. i live in VA
Posted by: nor cal surfer
Comments are closed-
Posted by: ateo on Apr 17, 2007 8:40 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Making guns more difficult to obtain wouldn't solve the problems in our society that create the people who commit these acts. If guns were more difficult to obtain then perhaps a person seeking to inflict pain and suffering upon society (which is really what their goal is, their indiscriminate killing can be explained no other way) would learn how to make a bomb and use that tactic. Bombs may kill more people, or less. It is, in all honesty, irrelevant.
Whether a man with a gun kills 32 people or a bomb kills 60 or a knife/sword kills 5 we have to ask the question, why is America producing people who feel they have no recourse but a suicidal rampage? It is a sign of sickness and decay not that America marginalizes people as America always has, but that the marginalized feel they have no means to exist in anything resembling happiness in our country.
In times past America marginalized groups of people to such a degree that they had every reason to strike back at those oppressing them. Think of native Americans, slaves, the mass poverty we have experienced at various times. Yet something kept them from acting out. What was that force? It was community, a sense of belonging in your own community even if the greater society shunned you. Community gave them a taste of happiness and hope in a country that was rigged against them. America has lost its sense of community to such a degree that an individual who is marginalized for whatever reason feels, rightly, completely alone with nobody to offer help or even advice.
Our consumerist society thrives because it produces people who want things they cannot obtain. This produces psychological conflict in individuals when their wants (that may be perceived as needs) are not met. Hence you have the rants against "rich kids." Every American is chasing the same dream and not every one of us is going to reach it.
Americans today are much better off than Americans in the past but even the children of middle class people will describe their childhood in terms that indicate that they were left wanting. In reality most of them were left wanting, that's the nature of our culture. I've met people who grew up in an upper middle class suburb of D.C. that believe they were poor growing up. In fact, I've rarely run into anyone who doesn't think that they were deprived as children even if they grew up in a stable middle class family in one of the wealthiest areas of the country. Everyone's reaching for the brass ring and it's moving continuously away from our grasp.
People fail because they set unrealistic goals that, if somehow accomplished, would allow them to buy all of the things they want. When these failures occur they seek someone to blame and in America blaming oneself is the last thing we do so they naturally conclude that they have been held back by society at large and seek revenge by inflicting as much pain as possible on those perceived to have held them back. So a lack of community to act as a safety net combined with unattainable wants generated by our consumer society produces miserable people out for revenge.
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» yes! nailed great points, ateo
Posted by: nor cal surfer
» RE: Guns or not, America is a sick and decaying society
Posted by: Topaz
» RE: Guns or not, America is a sick and decaying society
Posted by: dll932
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Posted by: ateo on Apr 17, 2007 8:49 PM
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Middle class parents send their kids to college assuming they will be safe for a few years and maybe learn how to be an adult. Poor parents send their kids to Iraq and just hope they come back alive and remotely sane. There is a personal connection to the college environment for many people. That brings this attack home for them making it seem very personal.
All I can say is that as society breaks down, as the vast emptiness that is life without a community to support you grows to encompass more Americans, as the safety nets disappear one by one, expect more attacks of this nature and worse. I tell you, it's enough to make an atheist contemplate seeking religion if only for the sense of belonging and community.
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» RE: Why people care about Virginia tech
Posted by: mcubed
» RE: Why people care about Virginia tech
Posted by: YogiBear
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Posted by: mute on Apr 17, 2007 9:35 PM
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i come from a country that's been through war in the 1990s. the laws about possessing guns are more strict than in the US. before the war, there was virtually *no* people shooting people, for the simple reason people didn't own guns. after the war, the situation changed: there were weapons left in people's homes and this, together with the post-war climate in which tolerance for violence is diminished, lead to more gun violence (Still far far far less than in the US). now, considering that the US have been at war more or less for the whole of the twentieth century (including various secret operations, cold war paranoia, etc), that the country has an *unbelievably* militarized culture and that guns are available to whoever wants to buy them, i don't see how anyone is surprised things like this school shooting happen. it really sounds ridiculous to even hear people debate over "whether free gun possession lead to more gun violence" -- is that a real question!? of course they do. the hypernationalistic culture of war certainly helps, too. believe me, for most people in the world having the "right to bear arms" in the constitution sounds really scary (and explains why this is such a violent country).
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» RE: permanent war & weapons for all
Posted by: dll932
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Posted by: White middleclass male on Apr 17, 2007 10:53 PM
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» RE: Simple as this:
Posted by: YogiBear
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Posted by: Lector on Apr 18, 2007 12:10 AM
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Banning guns will not reduce violence. Knife crimes would go up. The gun-runners would get rich, etc. etc. Find the causes of the sickness in our society that makes people use guns to deal with their personal problems and we'll have less to worry about.
Robert Lightfoot
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» RE: Guns, weapons are not the problem
Posted by: blaine s
» RE: Guns, weapons are not the problem
Posted by: cynicl
» RE: Guns, weapons are not the problem
Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: Guns, weapons are not the problem
Posted by: dll932
» A gun makes the will easier at a distance
Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: A gun makes the will easier at a distance
Posted by: dll932
» RE: A gun makes the will easier at a distance
Posted by: YogiBear
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Posted by: breakingatoms on Apr 18, 2007 7:19 AM
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Why do these kind of violent acts occur? You have no solution for them that is why. Laws won’t stop them. Christianity won’t stop them. The education system won’t stop them. This is your lifestyle. This is how you are. This is the American dream. This is democracy at its best. This is the good old days, the future, and the past. This every thing you hoped it would be. This is your worst nightmare taken place on a picture perfect day with a happy ending. This is a piece of our favorite puzzle that most of us dread putting together because we don’t want to see the big picture. It’s a brand new present wrapped in red paper that you cannot open for all eternity, but that has a list of every thing you should do contained within it. This is progress, modernity, and democracy, liberty, and justice for all. It’s the pursuit of happiness. This is what our forefathers intended.
Please don’t let my disdain for you mourning idiots lead you to believe that I don’t care about the victims of this shooting. To be honest I don’t care that they died, but I do hope that at least a few them were prepared to let go and leave this world behind other wise they could be right back here and possibly die again the same way. That’s really all that matters to me regarding this incident. Fuck bush.
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» Alright, another crazy person chimes in
Posted by: ateo
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Posted by: argos on Apr 18, 2007 8:25 AM
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Unfortunately, your notion is representative of the opinions held by members of all races which I think reflects deeper human impulses on which you yourself reflect eg.”... the fact that people get along better with people that look like them than others...”. This is quite a bit to presume on the behalf of most humans. What people look like is a superficial index and only a limited aspect of who they are. There’s a lot more to “getting along” with other humans than skin pigment, clothing or even common ancestry. If you have not discovered this, you are definitely missing out on or overlooking a key life experience.
I would caution you, and those who would agree with you to look more deeply into this phenomenon and think of yourself as a member of the human race.
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Posted by: govindas on Apr 18, 2007 5:21 PM
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By the mercy of the Lord,we cannot easily,though some hypnotists and yogis can,see our last lives and what sort of persons we were before.Such arrangement is expertly done by divine ways,so as people are brought together in this lifetime,and repair whatever injustice or good actions they have done in past lives.
US soldiers in the past have been in Asiatic countries,and have mercilessly killed,thinking there won't be any reactions in future,as they were just obeying a President.
But any single action is recorded at high level,and has to be paid eventually,if not in this lifetime,it will be in the next.
Wise persons are very careful not to indulge in wrongful actions,knowing this eternal law,that works in spite of one's disbelief in such law.
Many people act just like robots,brainwashed by false "religions",and politicians,thinking they are eternally protected by such higher authorities and divine powers.
But any person knows what is wrong or right,as the Lord is present in each of us:it's the voice of our conscience,our soul,who is linked with God.
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Posted by: YogiBear on Apr 19, 2007 12:44 AM
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» RE: I watched Bowling for Columbine
Posted by: dll932
» RE: I watched Bowling for Columbine
Posted by: anonymous_6
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Posted by: dignify on May 12, 2007 8:04 AM
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Posted by: spayed on May 12, 2007 8:59 AM
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Posted by: screwball on May 12, 2007 9:09 AM
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Posted by: zoroastrian on May 12, 2007 10:35 AM
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