COMMENTS: 395
Radical Christian Right Preaches Liberal Evil
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The highway is flanked by a flat-roofed Walgreens, a Blockbuster, discount liquor stores, a Taco Bell, a McDonald's, a Bob's Big Boy, Sunoco and Citgo gas stations, a Ford dealership, Nails USA, The Dollar Palace, Pro Quick Lube and U-Haul.
The tawdry display of cheap consumer goods, emblazoned with neon, lines both sides of the road, a dirty brown strip in the middle. It is a sad reminder that something has gone terribly wrong with America, with its inhuman disregard for beauty and balance, its obsession with speed and utilitarianism, its crass commercialism and its oversized SUVs and trucks and greasy junk food. It is part of our numbing assault against community and connectedness.
Ten or fifteen minutes of negotiating the traffic down South Telegraph Road makes the bizarre attraction of the End Times -- the obliteration of this world of alienation, noise and distortion -- comprehensible. The manufacturing jobs in the Detroit auto plants nearby are largely gone, outsourced to nations with cheaper labor. The paint is flaking off the cramped two-story houses that lie in ugly grid patterns off the highway.
The plagues of alcoholism, divorce, drug abuse, poverty and domestic violence make the internal life here as depressing as the external one. And those gathering today in this church wait for the final, welcome relief of the purgative of violence, the vast, bloody cleansing that will lift them up into the heavens and leave the world they despise -- the one that was devastated by corporatism -- to be racked by plagues and flood and fire until it and all those whom they blame for the debacle of their lives are consumed and destroyed by God. It is a theology of despair. And for many, it can't happen soon enough.
The guru of the End Times movement is a small, elderly, gnome-like man with dyed coal-black hair, a battery-powered earpiece and a pedantic, cold demeanor. He is Timothy LaHaye, a Southern Baptist minister and the co-author, along with Jerry Jenkins, of the "Left Behind" series of Christian apocalyptic thrillers that provide the graphic details of raw mayhem and cruelty that God will unleash on all nonbelievers when Christ returns and raptures Christians into heaven. The novels are the best-selling books in America, with over 62 million in print. They have been made into movies, as well as a graphic video game in which teenagers can blow away nonbelievers and the army of the Antichrist on the streets of New York City.
The global nightmare that leads to the end of history is a visceral and disturbing expression of what believers feel about themselves and our world. The horror of apocalyptic violence -- the final aesthetic of the movement -- at once terrifies and thrills followers. It feeds dark fantasies of revenge and empowerment.
This theology of despair is empowered by widespread poverty, violent crime, incurable diseases, global warming, war in the Middle East and the threat of nuclear calamity. All these events presage the longed-for obliteration of the Earth and the glorious moment of Christ's return. But until then believers are told they must battle Satan. And Satan comes in many guises. In churches across the United States believers are being girded for a holy war, one as self-destructive as that preached by radical Islam.
"We are at war with the religion of Islam," Gary Frazier, another popular leader, tells the crowd in the church outside Detroit, "and it is not a handful of radical Islamists who are taking over the religion and hijacking it. The fact is, ladies and gentlemen, today if you read the Koran, and any person who reads their Koran, the holy book of the Muslims, and believes what the book says, over a hundred times it calls for the putting to death of any person that does not embrace the teachings of Mohammed.
"Can you explain to me how in the West that we would understand a person who would strap dynamite upon themselves and blow themselves up along with innocent men and women and children with the promise that they would have 70 brown-haired, I mean blond-haired, blue-eyed virgins for their unlimited sexual pleasure in this place called Paradise? And the parents of that person then throw a party celebrating the destruction of their child. You want to tell me you understand that kind of mentality? Because I don't believe that. There's no one in the Western world that can comprehend that kind of mind-set, but, ladies and gentlemen, that is the mind-set of the religion of Islam around the world.
"Islam," Frazier says dramatically, "is a satanic religion."
He warns of Muslim "sleeper cells" in America waiting to carry out new terrorist attacks.
"You may have a Muslim doctor, and he may be a wonderful person," he says. "He may love his family, but you know what'll happen? One day, they will come to him -- I'm just using this as an illustration -- they will come to him and they'll say, 'We have a mission for you, and you will either do as you're told,' [or,] and they'll whip out the pictures, 'Here are your three children. We'll send their heads to you in a box.' Now, the difference is, is that if somebody told you that, you'd call the FBI or Homeland Security or somebody like that. They're not going to do that. Do you know why? Because they know the Muslim will do just what they say, and when it comes right down to where the rubber meets the road, boys and girls, they're going to save the lives of their own children before they'll save your own. And you most likely would probably do the same thing yourselves."
He pauses and slowly scans the crowd, which sits silently, expectantly awaiting his next sentence.
"I thank God for our men and women who are fighting over there because if they weren't fighting there, we'd be fighting right here in the streets of America. I'm convinced of that," he says, and the sanctuary erupts in loud applause.
America, the crowd is told, is being ruled by evil, clandestine organizations that hide behind the veneer of liberal, democratic groups. These clandestine forces seek to destroy Christians. They spread their demonic, secular humanist ideology through front groups such as the American Civil Liberties Union, People for the American Way, the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, the National Organization for Women, Planned Parenthood, the Trilateral Commission and "the major TV networks, high-profile newspapers and newsmagazines," the U.S. State Department, major foundations (Rockefeller, Carnegie, Ford), the United Nations, "the left wing of the Democratic Party" and Harvard, Yale "and 2,000 other colleges and universities." All of these groups have joined forces, LaHaye has warned, to "turn America into an amoral, humanist country, ripe for merger into a one-world socialist state."
The radical Christian right has no religious legitimacy. It is a mass political movement. It is interchangeable, in many ways, with other traditional political movements ranging from fascism to communism to the ethnic nationalist parties in the former Yugoslavia. It shares with these movements an inability to cope with ambiguity, doubt and uncertainty. It also embraces a world of miracles and signs and makes war on rational, reality-based thought. It condemns self-criticism and debate as apostasy. It places a premium on action. It dismisses those who do not bow down before its god -- and the leaders who claim to speak for God -- as heretics and traitors.
This movement shares with corporatists, who are busy cannibalizing our society for profit, the belief that there are a chosen few who know the truth and therefore have the right to impose it. The citizen, the individual, no longer has any legitimacy in this new world. All legitimacy is assumed by groups, whether they are corporate groups herding us over the cliff of globalization or religious groups that give popular vent to corporate-generated despair through faith in the Christian utopia. In this paradigm -- corporate and religious -- we become disempowered, afraid, passive and easily manipulated.
Apocalyptic visions like this one have, throughout history, cowed populations and inspired genocidal killers. They have enticed societies into collective suicide. These visions nourished the butchers who led the Inquisition, the Crusades and the conquistadors who swept through the Americas converting and then exterminating the native population.
These visions sustained the SS guards at Auschwitz, the Stalinists who consigned tens of thousands of Ukrainian families to starvation and death, the torturers in the clandestine prisons in Argentina during the Dirty War and the Serbian thugs with heavy machine guns and wraparound sunglasses who stood over the bodies of those they had slain in the smoking ruins of Bosnian villages.
Those who promise to purify the world through violence, to relieve the anxiety of moral pollution and despair, appeal to our noblest sentiments, our highest virtues, our capacity for self-sacrifice and our utopian visions of a cleansed world. It is this coupling of fantastic hope and profound despair, along with visions of peace and light and absolute terror, of selflessness and murder, which frees the consciences of those who call for and carry out the eradication of those they have banished from moral consideration.
When leaders of this movement, such as Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson, sanction, as they do, pre-emptive nuclear strikes against our enemies, and therefore the enemies of God, they fuel the passions of terrorists in love with the same apocalyptic nightmares. They march us to our own doom cheered by the delusion that once the dogs of war, even nuclear war, are unleashed, hundreds of millions will die, but because Christians have been blessed and chosen by God they alone will arise in triumph from the ash heap.
In this new world, where those who seek to do us harm will soon have in their hands cruder versions of the apocalyptic weapons we possess, dirty bombs or chemical or biological agents, the vision of those among us who welcome catastrophic warfare, indeed seek to hasten it, who fervently await the apocalypse and the end of time, who believe they will be lifted up into the sky by a returning Christ, forces us all to kneel before the god of death. The prayers these "Christians" near Detroit -- and tens of millions across the nation -- utter for deliverance and apocalyptic glory only hasten our flight from reality and ensure our self-annihilation.
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Posted by: wawa on Apr 10, 2007 7:13 AM
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Which is politically driven and inherently anti-Semitic theology based on FEAR;
FEAR is how totalitarian regimes manipulate and control the people.
The gospel/good news JC preached was:
"FEAR NOT! You shall know the truth and the truth will set you free."
JC was into liberation-NOT control.
JC was never a Christian-he was born, lived and died under OCCUPATION.
JC was a social justice radical revolutionary Palestinian devout Jewish road warrior who ROSE UP and challenged the job security of the Temple by teaching the people they did NOT need to pay the high priests for ritual baths or sacrificing livestock to be OK with God,
God loved them just as they were;
Diseased, outcasts, sinners, widows, orphans, refugees, prisoners, all enduring under Roman occupation.
There are many Christian voices challenging the likes of Hagee, Lindsay, Robertson, Fawell,
To name but 3
www.sabeel.org
http://www.sizers.org/
http://www.wearewideawake.org/
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» Jesus was a radical liberal
Posted by: MartianBachelor
» RE: Jesus was a radical liberal
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» Pardon Me!?!
Posted by: djnoll
» excellent, djnoll nm
Posted by: Beck
» RE: Pardon Me!?!
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Pardon Me!?!
Posted by: lively56
» RE: Pardon Me!?!
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Pardon Me!?!
Posted by: aussidawg
» RE: Pardon Me!?!
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Pardon Me!?!
Posted by: aussidawg
» RE: Pardon Me!?!
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Pardon Me!?!
Posted by: aussidawg
» RE: Pardon Me!?!
Posted by: gonzoskismet
» RE: Pardon Me!?!
Posted by: aussidawg
» RE: Ah, "give unto Ceasar what is his"...love that one
Posted by: ateo
» RE: Ah, "give unto Ceasar what is his"...love that one
Posted by: ohb0b
» RE: Ah, "give unto Ceasar what is his"...love that one
Posted by: psychotic1
» RE: Pardon Me!?!
Posted by: Malamute
» he was a radical feminist, too
Posted by: Beck
» bobvb@cox.net
Posted by: Robert Veasey
» RE: bobvb@cox.net
Posted by: ohb0b
» RE: Jesus was a radical liberal
Posted by: Rolomax
» conservasaurus is a faux-conservative
Posted by: brasilaron
» Jesus Has Been Marginalized....
Posted by: CatDad
» Sorry, but Jesus wasn't a revolutionary in the modern sense of the word
Posted by: brunowe
» No, you're just trying to co-opt him.
Posted by: brunowe
» He sought to rewrite Jewish power, and negate alot of it
Posted by: Beck
» RE: He sought to rewrite Jewish power, and negate alot of it
Posted by: brunowe
» but you wrote that Jesus' main message was the end of the world and God making everything alright?
Posted by: Beck
» Well, if he's coming back and passing God's judgement, that implies an overthrow of unrighteousness.
Posted by: brunowe
» RE: Well, if he's coming back and passing God's judgement, that implies an overthrow of unrighteousn
Posted by: particle
» He is radical if he said those things to those in power; put it in the context of the whole passage.
Posted by: Beck
» RE: He is radical if he said those things to those in power; put it in the context of the whole passage.
Posted by: smccaw
» Oh, you said it; he'd hang out with the "wrong" people again, and say all the wrong things
Posted by: Beck
» Luke 19:27 "…and slay them before me" isn't violent and radical??
Posted by: whyoung
» If God is God
Posted by: openhouse
» RE: THANK YOU
Posted by: yellow
» displaying ignorance
Posted by: openhouse
» RE: THANK YOU
Posted by: clydeb1443
» RE: THANK YOU
Posted by: yellow
» RE: THANK YOU
Posted by: redweasel61
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Posted by: liberalibrarian on Apr 10, 2007 7:15 AM
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It breaks my heart that this is a large trend of Christianity. That more than one patron has come to me in the library and asked for these books, because "people don't read the bible you know"--I say they are in FICTION but of course they don't get it. They take the books out by the armload.
They can't burn themselves out fast enough...they are the ones who are bringing on their self fulfilling "prophesy" and they are the scariest people around.
One of the bumper stickers on my car says "In case of Rapture I'm taking your car"...hope it's a BMW
All this got it's start in the mid 1800's among other fanatic, oddball religious bunk. I'll take secular humanism, Taoism and UU any day. And send out my intentions to the Universe that these scary souls go by the wayside quickly.
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» RE: fanatic fantasy not noble sentiment
Posted by: ohb0b
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Posted by: P3K on Apr 10, 2007 7:22 AM
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» RE: wormfood
Posted by: amrahne
» RE: wormfood
Posted by: openhouse
» RE: wormfood
Posted by: psychotic1
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Posted by: ZPaul on Apr 10, 2007 7:25 AM
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» RE: Nothing To Do With Jesus Christ
Posted by: Gisele
» RE: Nothing To Do With Jesus Christ
Posted by: ZPaul
» Add me to the list.
Posted by: Sojourner
» i applaud your rejection...
Posted by: brasilaron
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Posted by: JoshuaLudd on Apr 10, 2007 7:33 AM
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So... even when they controlled all three houses until last november... the nation was still being run by liberals?
Thats right up there with their religious majority is being persecuted.
These people are utterly dellusional.
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» RE: The world run by "liberals"?
Posted by: Roberto
» RE: The world run by "liberals"?
Posted by: ohb0b
» RE: The world run by "liberals"?
Posted by: ohb0b
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Posted by: emmanuel_goldstein_fights_fake_lefties on Apr 10, 2007 7:36 AM
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» I notice you dropped the pet issue that was covered by Alternet...
Posted by: JoshuaLudd
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Posted by: reval on Apr 10, 2007 7:37 AM
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Insist that they arm themselves daily against the forces of madness.
WVCSR
Rev. El Mundo
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» RE: Teach your children well
Posted by: CombatJourno
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Posted by: NoPCZone on Apr 10, 2007 7:37 AM
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Timothy LaHaye is a scam artist who should know better. The whole concept of 'Christian Fiction' is antithetical to faith in general and Christianity in particular. The message of the Christian faith is a claim to a universal truth that God has called all people to be reconciled to peace, grace, love, mercy, charity, and hope- that a cold, hard, selfish, greedy, violent and merciless world is not our only option. A teaching that each and every person is our brother and sister and that we are responsible for them- not just ourselves. A message of hope- not fear.
Jesus never charged admission nor did he sell anything. LaHaye and his ilk sell everything.
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» Paranoia justifies all
Posted by: UnEasyOne
» RE: Paranoia justifies all
Posted by: craftne
» Liberals the anti Christ???
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» Trying to highjack and confuse - ignore.
Posted by: Knowmad
» RE: Trying to highjack and confuse - ignore.
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» What the hell . . .
Posted by: russianblue1
» RE: What the hell . . .
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: What the hell . . .
Posted by: ohb0b
» RE: What the hell . . .
Posted by: Vandover
» RE: Liberals the anti Christ???
Posted by: ZPaul
» RE: Liberals the anti Christ???
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Conservasaurus.
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: Conservasaurus.
Posted by: brasilaron
» RE: Conservasaurus.
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Conservasaurus.
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: Conservasaurus.
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Conservasaurus.
Posted by: ohb0b
Comments are closed-
Posted by: zyxwvut on Apr 10, 2007 7:43 AM
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We as a nation have allowed the conditions that promote apocalypticism to gain strength. We should blame ourselves collectively.
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Posted by: reval on Apr 10, 2007 7:43 AM
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WVCSR
Rev. El Mundo
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Posted by: zyxwvut on Apr 10, 2007 7:48 AM
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Posted by: orwellwasn'tdreaming on Apr 10, 2007 7:51 AM
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Excellent point, right on target, and too often ignored.
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» I WATCHED THE MERGER OF THE REP PARTY AND THE REL RIGHT IN HOUSTON 30 YRS AGO, OR SO , AND
Posted by: mdruss42
» RE: I WATCHED THE MERGER OF THE REP PARTY AND THE REL RIGHT IN HOUSTON 30 YRS AGO, OR SO , AND
Posted by: chomsky
» RE: I WATCHED THE MERGER OF THE REP PARTY AND THE REL RIGHT IN HOUSTON 30 YRS AGO, OR SO , AND
Posted by: IndyElliott
» I was shouting. I am 65 years old and have watched this go on and was able, even back then to
Posted by: mdruss42
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Posted by: cmaukonen on Apr 10, 2007 8:10 AM
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These very people are the ones who have supported and previously benefited from these very things they now despise.
And so it goes.
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» RE: And who is to blame....
Posted by: craftne
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Posted by: frank67 on Apr 10, 2007 8:11 AM
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Posted by: zyxwvut on Apr 10, 2007 8:13 AM
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All legitimacy is assumed by groups, whether they are corporate groups herding us over the cliff of globalization or religious groups that give popular vent to corporate-generated despair through faith in the Christian utopia. In this paradigm -- corporate and religious -- we become disempowered, afraid, passive and easily manipulated.
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» RE: These leaders are channeling the rage of these oppressed souls
Posted by: cmaukonen
» RE: These leaders are channeling the rage of these oppressed souls
Posted by: rjgwood
» RE: These leaders are channeling the rage of these oppressed souls
Posted by: Lincoln fan
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Posted by: jurgen on Apr 10, 2007 8:22 AM
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» RE: John A. Broussard
Posted by: outsideagitator
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Posted by: juanpecan81 on Apr 10, 2007 8:29 AM
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You can't force awareness or critique on people, but the first step is to still recognize them as people and equals. They've been deluded by the empty promises of imperialism/capitalism and they look to the strong daddy to provide answers. Common (universal?) problem with unique expressions.
These people are probably lonely, isolated and have an unplaceable anger (also sounds familiar). They probably feel robbed: deprived of something owed to them.
They are products of a social order that teaches a blind obediance to authority (as opposed to a productive discourse on how authority/social standards need to be adjusted to reach a workable human balance). A preacher placing a name, any name, and directing that anger anywhere is welcome...especially when playing on our natural ingroup/outgroup tendencies.
So where do we go? I'd like to hear yr thoughts.
2 thoughts for the discussion:
"To contract something, you must first let it expand" - Tao te Ching
"We win justice quickest by rendering justice to the other party" - Gandhi (what is justice? the absence of negative influence/control?)
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» with them? I doubt it.
Posted by: counterpoint
» Use Microsoft tactics
Posted by: Dboy
» THE GREAT MAJORITY OF THESE PEOPLE ARE FOLLOWERS, AND WANT SOMEONE TO TELL
Posted by: mdruss42
» RE: How do we make progress with them?
Posted by: IndyElliott
» RE: How do we make progress with them?
Posted by: rjgwood
» RE: How do we make progress with them?
Posted by: craftne
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Posted by: Aimee on Apr 10, 2007 8:31 AM
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Aimee
DataOptions.com
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» Most institutions are cults of obedience.
Posted by: zyxwvut
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Posted by: catnapping on Apr 10, 2007 8:35 AM
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As a native american who is NOT christianist, I dare not tell people here in the corporeal world that I am pagan. I have seen christianists turn on a DIME when they found out someone they LIKED and respected was pagan.
There is no freedom of religion in this country. Not until people like me can practice our faith in the open. But as long as christianists get to demonize us...we're at risk...they'd send us to the ovens, given half the chance. (it won't stop with the Muslims).
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» RE: Christianism...
Posted by: brainvib
» RE: Christianism...
Posted by: catnapping
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Posted by: Gisele on Apr 10, 2007 8:38 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We've been warned of one-world government, and one-world religion, it will come to pass no matter what we do. It's already well on it's way! Those leading both groups will be misled Christians, or those using the guise of Christianity to do their work. Unfortunately, too many good people have let LaHaye, Hagee, Falwell, Robertson and numerous Popes run away with their faith and their common sense.
Remember that old saying your Mama taught you? "Dance with the one what brung ya"...that means if you're going to call yourself a Christian, be one - DO what He did. Not what the hate mongers in the mega-churches are trying to shove down your throat - and everyone else's. It's well past time for Christians to show respect for other religions whether they're agreed with or not. That means reading your own Bible, not taking a pastor or ministers word for what they think it means - you will find that God has many Sons, but only one "begotten" one. All of those Sons deserve our respect, whether they are Islamic, Buddhist or any other religion.
Finally will someone from the Christian Right please show me where Jesus advocated violence in any form to accomplish His will? You can't...and you know it. So please stop calling yourself "Christian"...you're giving Him and those who truly try follow Him, a bad name.
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» accurate prophecy? Garbage!
Posted by: counterpoint
» RE: accurate prophecy? Garbage!
Posted by: djnoll
» RE: accurate prophecy? Garbage!
Posted by: counterpoint
» RE: accurate prophecy? Garbage!
Posted by: Gisele
» Believe as you do?
Posted by: doctorsquared
» children of God
Posted by: openhouse
» RE: children of God
Posted by: counterpoint
» RE: children of God
Posted by: djnoll
» RE: children of God
Posted by: counterpoint
» RE: children of God
Posted by: craftne
» historicity
Posted by: openhouse
Comments are closed-
Posted by: abqbabe on Apr 10, 2007 8:42 AM
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The same disillusionment, anger, despair, and "highest hopes" contrasted with the desire for revenge against those who have created the ugliness, immorality and inequities of the world, fuel not only the masses of the Christian Right, but Islamic Fundamentalism as well, from suicide bombers to the rigid strictures of Wahabism. It is only a small step for the Christian Right to become the American edition of the Taliban.
Saddest of all is that these two political groups (Christian and Muslim), separated by culture and ignorance, actually want the exact same thing. Instead, their leaders foment ever more misunderstanding and hatred among their followers to enhance their own power.
It is tribalism writ big, with a very earthly agenda of longing for power over those "not us" - the unbelievers - and reward for and vindication of one's own fears and prejudices.
To long for destruction is to long for death: to choose death is to choose Satan. Those seeking the End Times have already forsaken the God they claim to worship, and closed their ears to His message.
Ary
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» Christians and Muslims want the same thing - REALLY??
Posted by: counterpoint
» RE: Christians and Muslims want the same thing - REALLY??
Posted by: Animal
» RE: Christians and Muslims want the same thing - REALLY??
Posted by: counterpoint
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Posted by: caru on Apr 10, 2007 8:43 AM
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i am glad you point out they lack any appreciation for beauty. they consume the land, they do not connect to the beauty of the creation -- turtle island -- we need only tune into the sacred earth and get some real religion -- the beauty of this creation that is us. that is all it takes to be indigi, enjoy the numinous moment and the beauty of the land and water and all the amazing little and large creatures.
chris, can you please write some words of those who have abandoned this apcolaptic way of thinking and have come onto the truth of indigenous living on this planet. the ancient truths in yoga and shamanism. the mystics. jc was a mystic who studied yoga ... we need to provide a path for those locked onto full on destruction ... we need to outline a path of beauty -- including the ancient way of the iroquois -- which our constitution is based on -- including womun ... we need to outline a path which can gingerly bring us back from this crazed mind that these crazed people perpetuate.
may the world be at peace. may we all find our way in peace. blessings and abundance and happiness. GO INDIGI!!!
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Posted by: fanny666 on Apr 10, 2007 8:47 AM
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» RE: How it's gonna end - it's already ended.
Posted by: symcokid
» RE: How it's gonna end
Posted by: peaknik35
» RE: How it's gonna end - I think you have got it right!
Posted by: symcokid
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Posted by: Lincoln fan on Apr 10, 2007 9:09 AM
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With the option of a different economic system out of peoples' minds the desparate now turn to religion. This poses no danger to the corporate establishment and so it's fostered and turned against the liberal ideas that are a threat to the establishment.
It's easy for we on the left ro see that the religious are being manipulated by the establishment. It's not so easy to see that we are also being manipulated by the same establishment. It is hard to believe because we feel superior to the yahoos, the rednecks, and the Nascar crowd. We're too smart to be manipulated. "Pride goeth before the fall".
The evidence is plain to see. It's public record. Click on Open Secrets The same industries fund both of our political parties.
They don't fund both parties because they want both parties to win. They fund both parties so it doesn't make much difference which party wins. And all along we were convinced that we had the power of the vote. We got all panicky when the election was "stolen" but didn't mind when it was bought.
Feel free to discuss your favorite candidate but be sure that he/she is electable. That means that he/she is acceptable to the corporate establishment.
I even forgot the names of the last bunch of unelectable hopefuls. I only remember that one was too short, one was deranged, one was a clown, and another was a black woman who we weren't "ready for". In other words they were not acceptable to the corporatocracy that controls both parties.
We are in a very dangerous situation. The establishment has split the workong class into two groups that disrespect, despise, and fear each other. Fear is the strongest human emotion; the strongest animal instinct. Will we let the corporatocracy stay in power until we are at war with each other?
Bob Reichenbach,
Director, The Lincoln Initiative.
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» RE: The Religious Right is manipulated by corporations.
Posted by: jims713
» RE: The Religious Right is manipulated by corporations.
Posted by: zyxwvut
» RE: The Religious Right is manipulated by corporations.
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» Pocketbook Issues Could Win the Day
Posted by: rjgwood
» RE: Pocketbook Issues Could Win the Day
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: Pocketbook Issues Could Win the Day
Posted by: rjgwood
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Posted by: Gerald on Apr 10, 2007 9:18 AM
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» RE: Mr.
Posted by: albrechtkrausse
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Posted by: WitchyNy on Apr 10, 2007 9:18 AM
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» RE: If God is on our side-
Posted by: brainvib
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Posted by: xbj on Apr 10, 2007 9:24 AM
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Jesus said "LOVE YOUR ENEMIES. BLESS THOSE THAT CURSE YOU."
These pitiful bastards aren't Christians, and woe to them when they realize their god was Lucifer.
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Posted by: brainvib on Apr 10, 2007 10:01 AM
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Why suddenly have we, the english speaking world, allowed this fanatic cult to steal the label "Christian"?
A common question asked by a bac(born again christian) is
"Are you a Christian"? By my definition and that of Webster
and Funk and Wagnall, YES I AM! But by the bac definition I certainly am not. I want my label back!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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» RE: eport a Theft
Posted by: xbj
» RE: eport a Theft
Posted by: Gisele
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Posted by: jessicalh on Apr 10, 2007 10:29 AM
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» read Hedges' book
Posted by: counterpoint
» RE: read Hedges' book
Posted by: jessicalh
» Flint, Michigan
Posted by: rjgwood
» RE: bah, humbug...
Posted by: morticia
» Cognitive dissonance versus doublethink
Posted by: doctorsquared
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Posted by: Knowmad on Apr 10, 2007 10:39 AM
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Wishful thinking perhaps, but what if progressives could take advantage of these circumstances and inflict some serious damage to these sick enterprises, and have those who benefit exposed for the immoral parasites they are to boot.
If the three most dangerous cabals - the religious right, corporate pimps, and their neocon political whores - could be set against one another somehow (maybe a few smart inside operators, telling 'secrets' to each group about about how the others are going to betray them) they just might all go down in a passionate blaze of putrid self-interest. I don't suggest anyone should actually be hurt, just those responsible reaping what they've sown, and their victims given another chance to chose for themselves.
My own little version of the rapture.
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» RE: Opportunity?
Posted by: antu
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Posted by: leedavis546@msn.com on Apr 10, 2007 10:40 AM
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» Which 10 Commandments?
Posted by: counterpoint
» how about just the golden rule
Posted by: liberalibrarian
» don't believe it
Posted by: counterpoint
» Supernatural Being
Posted by: LeftCoastProgressive
» RE: Why Don't Christian's Talk about the 10 Commandments
Posted by: aussidawg
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Posted by: morticia on Apr 10, 2007 10:41 AM
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DEER HUNTING WITH JESUS--Dispatches From America's Class War, by Joe Bageant. You'll learn how and why we're in the mess we're in.
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Posted by: vertical on Apr 10, 2007 11:12 AM
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» RE:ligious Stupid
Posted by: Ellie1
» Religious Automatons
Posted by: LeftCoastProgressive
» RE: eligious Stupid
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: eligious Stupid - no thanks
Posted by: UnEasyOne
» RE: I think it can be done...
Posted by: ShrubtheWarcriminal
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Posted by: peaknik35 on Apr 10, 2007 11:54 AM
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» RE: They'll bring us all down
Posted by: churchofone
» RE: They'll bring us all down
Posted by: Artkansas
» RE: They'll bring us all down
Posted by: antu
» RE: They'll bring us all down
Posted by: aussidawg
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Posted by: Ellie1 on Apr 10, 2007 12:03 PM
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Posted by: weatherking on Apr 10, 2007 12:27 PM
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Posted by: churchofone on Apr 10, 2007 12:41 PM
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I do take exception with the author's description: The paint is flaking off the cramped two-story houses that lie in ugly grid patterns off the highway......The plagues of alcoholism, divorce, drug abuse, poverty and domestic violence make the internal life here as depressing as the external one.
It is not all the gloom-and-doom portrayed. I live in what is considered a blue-collar community, and although there are some neglected and vacant homes, most people take care of their homes. My city simply will not tolerate property neglect!
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Posted by: poppop_schell on Apr 10, 2007 1:11 PM
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That said, some of their warnings are on target at least from a Biblical prospective. As I read this "hit piece", I wondered IF a similar type of piece was written in Noah's day? I wonder when the signs leading up to Jesus's 2nd Coming become more and more fullfilled, whether folks on AlterNet will be like those in Noah's day? The signs were there but ignored.
As Christ decends in His glory, all those living a telestial type of life will be burned up at His coming (see D+C 76 for whose these people are (http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/76), the earth will be transfigured to a terrestrial existence and peace will reign for 1000 years. Fortunately more than 8 people will survive unlike in Noah's day when only eight survived the flood.
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» RE: I WONDER HOW THE PEOPLE IN NOAH'S DAY REACTED TO HIS WARNINGS?
Posted by: counterpoint
» RE: I WONDER HOW THE PEOPLE IN NOAH'S DAY REACTED TO HIS WARNINGS?
Posted by: poppop_schell
» Ruler of the Universes?
Posted by: counterpoint
» RE: uler of the Universes?
Posted by: poppop_schell
» RE: uler of the Universes?
Posted by: thirdmg
» RE: uler of the Universes? Didn't see an attack on Mormons
Posted by: UnEasyOne
» RE: uler of the Universes? Didn't see an attack on Mormons
Posted by: poppop_schell
» Science discards false theories, but demonstrably false religions are untouchable??
Posted by: counterpoint
» RE: Science discards false theories, but demonstrably false religions are untouchable??
Posted by: poppop_schell
» RE: uler of the Universes? Didn't see an attack on Mormons
Posted by: UnEasyOne
» RE: uler of the Universes? Didn't see an attack on Mormons
Posted by: poppop_schell
» RE: uler of the Universes? Didn't see an attack on Mormons
Posted by: UnEasyOne
» RE: uler of the Universes? Didn't see an attack on Mormons
Posted by: poppop_schell
» RE: Hardly. Alternet was messed up - wasn't sure my comment posted at all
Posted by: UnEasyOne
» RE: Hardly. Alternet was messed up - wasn't sure my comment posted at all
Posted by: poppop_schell
» RE: Hardly... already did - you ducked and dodged
Posted by: UnEasyOne
» RE: I WONDER HOW THE PEOPLE IN NOAH'S DAY REACTED TO HIS WARNINGS? - Don't Be Too Sure
Posted by: thirdmg
» RE: I WONDER HOW THE PEOPLE IN NOAH'S DAY REACTED TO HIS WARNINGS? - Don't Be Too Sure
Posted by: poppop_schell
» RE: I WONDER HOW THE PEOPLE IN NOAH'S DAY REACTED TO HIS WARNINGS? - Don't Be Too Sure
Posted by: thirdmg
» RE: I WONDER HOW THE PEOPLE IN NOAH'S DAY REACTED TO HIS WARNINGS?
Posted by: aussidawg
» RE: I WONDER HOW THE PEOPLE IN NOAH'S DAY REACTED TO HIS WARNINGS?
Posted by: poppop_schell
» Change Your Wicked, Wicked Ways!
Posted by: LeftCoastProgressive
» RE: Change Your Wicked, Wicked Ways!
Posted by: poppop_schell
» RE: I WONDER HOW THE PEOPLE IN NOAH'S DAY REACTED TO HIS WARNINGS?
Posted by: catnapping
» RE: I WONDER HOW THE PEOPLE IN NOAH'S DAY REACTED TO HIS WARNINGS?
Posted by: poppop_schell
» Well, since the story is a myth...
Posted by: doctorsquared
» RE: Well, since the story is a myth...
Posted by: poppop_schell
» thanks for educating us about Mormons - may it hurt Romney!
Posted by: counterpoint
» RE: thanks for educating us about Mormons - may it hurt Romney!
Posted by: poppop_schell
» RE: thanks for educating us about Mormons - may it hurt Romney!
Posted by: aussidawg
» RE: thanks for educating us about Mormons - may it hurt Romney!
Posted by: poppop_schell
» RE: thanks for educating us about Mormons - may it hurt Romney!
Posted by: aussidawg
» RE: thanks for educating us about Mormons - may it hurt Romney!
Posted by: poppop_schell
» RE: thanks - research Ron Paul a bit more, aussie
Posted by: UnEasyOne
» RE: thanks - research Ron Paul a bit more, aussie
Posted by: poppop_schell
» RE: thanks - research Ron Paul - You call yourself a progressive?
Posted by: UnEasyOne
» RE: thanks - research Ron Paul - You call yourself a progressive?
Posted by: poppop_schell
» What part was nonsense?
Posted by: doctorsquared
» RE: What part was nonsense?
Posted by: poppop_schell
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Posted by: beautykilledbeast on Apr 10, 2007 1:11 PM
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I felt this comparison begged one question: why worry over the commonweal when the End Times are imminent and
it's our responsibility to hurry the End along?
Let me tell you, there are many, many Christians I know who I'd like to see crucified, burned at the stake, fed to the lions, and about in that order.
We should do them the favor and bestow their crowns of martyrdom.
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Posted by: Sojourner on Apr 10, 2007 1:30 PM
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I grew up on science fiction. Those who read the New Testament as science fiction are no better and no worse. Except I now see science fiction as a waste of my time. And I see journalism wallowing in the drama of religious science fiction as a similar waste. Be gone, fool.
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Posted by: amiabledave on Apr 10, 2007 1:34 PM
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Although all poor, illiterate, and oppressed people who -- through no fault of their own -- live under conditions of war, privation, and authoritarian rule are subject to fundamentalism and suiciidal tendencies, it does not subtract their humanity.
"Persecution makes proselytes." – Voltaire
How must it look to the world when rag-tag freedom fighters stand atop piles of rubble facing jets, tanks, AND GPS-guided rockets -- the most sophisticated, best-equipped military on the planet -- and are victorious? How can we consider ourselves brave and moral when we go after countries whose suffering peoples lack even the convience of an electric toaster?
We have this history of supporting tyranny whenever it serves our purposes, having recently armed Iraq, Iran, and the Taliban in Afghanistan. We have supported Israel's takeover of Arab land, after denying victims of the Holocaust a refuge in America?
Is there ever a point when Americans cannot forgive themselves for cowardly, self-serving actions?
Is it wise to trade democracy and morality for empire? How can we be happy attacking not an army, but the strategy of religious extremists who have only their chains to lose?
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» RE: our historical treatment of Middle-Eastern peoples
Posted by: antu
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Posted by: whyoung on Apr 10, 2007 1:48 PM
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Luke 19:27 is but one example of his radical nature, there are plenty more.
There are many heroic characters in literature with greater words of wisdom than Jesus the Christ.
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» RE: What book has everyone been reading?
Posted by: staringatthesun
» RE: What book has everyone been reading?
Posted by: counterpoint
» RE: What book has everyone been reading?
Posted by: antu
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Posted by: LeaderofMen on Apr 10, 2007 1:55 PM
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Christians who 'interpret' the Bible rather than believe in it wholeheartedly are as irrelevant as dew evaporating before the morning sun.
People who interpret the Bible to fit it into a milder form, fit for actual human consumption, are bastardizing what religion is all about. Religion is by its very nature an US vs. THEM proposition. It is DESIGNED to cleave, to make YOU and YOURS better than THOSE OTHERS. That is the point and purpose of religion. It is that way to this very moment in time. You know it and I know it.
All of you Christians who are trying to prove a point by making your religion 'palatable' for the rest of us are playing a game called mental masturbation. Religion has never been designed, invented, cultivated or cultured for mass inclusion. It's purpose is NOT to provide comfort for the masses. You only say it is. Saying doesn't make it so. It just means you SAID it. Religion has always spread thru rape, lies and plunder (read your Bible if you don't believe that) - thru the use of the sword, edicts, bulls, pronouncements, pogroms, and convert or die schemes. It has always and forever will be used to take your money, gain control over your mind, your heart, your family, your relationships, your state, your school boards, your countries, etc. It is a power game. It is a Ponzi scheme. It is a tool for political purposes. Look at what's going on just in the Justice Dept. of he US to see the latter in vital, dynamic action in real time.
The present state, condition, and example that is US culture today proves this point like no other can in modern history. You will witness the demise of 'mild' Christianity because it can't withstand the onslaught of tens of millions of dollars that are used to present FEAR as the basis for its perpetuation. It, being fundamentalist Christianity.
Christianity can't and has never explained the meaning of life, the purpose of pain, provided an explanation for evil, nor can it manifest a soul, an angel or its god. It can ONLY present false dichotomies, call you a sinner and wage war. You are seeing it happen in front of your very eyes in America. That is true Christianity in this nation. That is Christianity in history.
If your god is so powerful, so omniscient, and so incredibly insightful you MUST explain why it/he/she is allowing Christian fundamentalists so much power and control. It will ultimately be used for total and complete evil. As it always has and as it always will.
You can't explain this bizarre god of yours because your god is not there. YOUR GOD IS NOT THERE. The only thing that is there is fear in people's hearts, extremely low education of Christianity's adherents, the inability to understand the difference between right and wrong - due to drug abuse, alcoholism, and external loci of control for the vast majority of 'believers'. Oh, and the willingness to believe leaders who say they know better than you - all because you are LAZY beyond words to describe.
Nothing can stop the masses of totally ignorant Christians from gaining the power they so desperately need. They want it badly because the further they delve into this cult of hate, the emptier and emptier they become. They ultimately experience a near perfect vacuum of emotional instability and lash out at others. They project their emptiness on the rest of us. They get sucked in. It's like explosive decompression out an airlock into the void of space. They find themselves there and desperately attempt to fill that empty hole by following the edicts of their fear: make them believe, tell them they're sinners, lash out at those who KNOW beyond a shadow of a doubt that there is NO god.
Christians have no soul but wish they did. You and I will suffer because of them.
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» Situation Seems Hopeless
Posted by: rjgwood
» RE: It's Irrelevant
Posted by: djnoll
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Posted by: VZEQICVA on Apr 10, 2007 2:49 PM
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Posted by: antu on Apr 10, 2007 4:22 PM
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This is the sad thing about our world, and it has been going on for as long as humans have inhabited this planet.
I can only think of a few. Jesus, (wouldn't it have been something if Jesus were able to get the jews to allow those who really needed the healing baths of the temple to come in and bathe?, OK for health's' sake then have separate facilities, but still I don't see how his time on earth changed much of anything sad to say, like Jefferson said, he was killed to soon to make the impact that might have been possible for a renewed humanitarian world) Gandhi, Martin Luther, John Lennon, Pope Paul II was shot. (I won't put Reagan in there for obvious reasons).
I was born with this sensitive spirit that rejects war greed poverty sweatshops, malls, monsanto, the perrrfect 60's hippy. This is why I relate so much to Christ, and Jefferson, and these other martyrs... This tendancy is so strong in me that if I were born a wealthy elite I'd have the family's billions to work with to make some sort of change in economic structure, to the point of at least having a commune, but I'd probably get kicked out of the family.
And those who actually do the work are not the ones who are rewarded. Have you ever heard the line I built this house? When it takes at least 10 people to do so?
Alas I'm just a 3rd generation mason laborer, trying to get a respectable wage from the coffers of greedy home owners, who are too cheap to buy real rock and insist on fake rock to make the appearance of expensive solid foundation or fireplace...
Wannabes... most upper-middle class Idahoans are cheap elitist- aristocrat -wannabes who waste their money on inefficiency and fake (you name it),...They come to Idaho to exploit cheap labor and cannot fathom voting for a higher minimum wage. They are a big part of the liberal attack mechanism. I cannot get any more money out of them than I did in the 70's. I do the creative masonry labor they play the stock market and bitch at those who would labor all day everyday for pittance and blame them for their plight. Is playing in the stock market the same as making an honest living working?
They are for the most part FOX attack news worshipers who play in the Christian right for their secure status.
And believe me they have killed and will kill to keep it this way.
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Posted by: tommy_slothrop on Apr 10, 2007 4:40 PM
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These people are spreading their sickness throughout the entire world!
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» RE: They're not just here!
Posted by: counterpoint
» RE: They're not just here!
Posted by: IndyElliott
» RE: They're not just here!
Posted by: counterpoint
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Posted by: willymack on Apr 10, 2007 4:57 PM
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» RE: dogma is in the eye of the beholder
Posted by: solrev
» RE: dogma is in the eye of the beholder
Posted by: particle
» RE: dogma is in the eye of the beholder
Posted by: solrev
» RE: dogma is in the eye of the beholder
Posted by: counterpoint
» And so it goes...
Posted by: aussidawg
» RE: dogma is in the eye of the beholder - Not Always
Posted by: thirdmg
» RE: dogma is in the eye of the beholder - Not Always
Posted by: counterpoint
» RE: dogma is in the eye of the beholder - Not Always
Posted by: counterpoint
» RE: dogma is in the eye of the beholder - Not Always
Posted by: counterpoint
» RE: Eighty/twenty
Posted by: antu
» RE: ighty/twenty
Posted by: counterpoint
» RE: ighty/twenty
Posted by: willymack
» wow, fascinating, and explains alot. . .
Posted by: Beck
» RE: Pareto's Law
Posted by: LeaderofMen
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Posted by: righteousbabe on Apr 10, 2007 5:27 PM
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If one truly believes in God's judgement, well then for (St.) Pete's sake, git outta da way and let him do his job and you be doin' your job (being good and not killin' and stuff). What confounds me is that people just don't actually TRUST the God they worship to render judgement. It's like ascribing responsibility to someone, then just pushing them aside and doing it yourself. If one has faith in God as the Almighty, well then, he/she/it can take care of it just fine, thank you.
So, please! All of you kooky zealots out there reading this, please don't clease the world of sinners and kill in his name unless he asks you to. I guess that's the problem right there: they are actually under the belief that God is OUT-SOURCING JUDGEMENT. Wow!
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» Prophecy = God is 'outsourcing' judgment? It's getting in everywhere these days.
Posted by: Sojourner
» Excellent!
Posted by: Beck
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Posted by: Jersey Devil on Apr 10, 2007 6:00 PM
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Posted by: YogiBear on Apr 10, 2007 6:20 PM
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» RE: Ignoramousness is bliss
Posted by: morticia
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Posted by: Intransit on Apr 10, 2007 6:53 PM
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Posted by: liberalibrarian on Apr 10, 2007 7:23 PM
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Joseph Campbell called Buddhism, Taoism and Hinduism the Perennial faiths because of their (comparative) tolerance for different thinking, and their ability to distinguish humankind's quest for spirituality with historical occurances. I'll take the later any day.
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Posted by: solrev on Apr 10, 2007 7:29 PM
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the literature, find a prophet who speaks the truth to you and be that voice. The alternative is you can just stand by and be a voice crying in the wilderness and watch what we do. Use your rational mind and predict the future who knows the prophet that saves the planet may be among you. Look at the numbers it is to late to start over.
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» RE: time is relative
Posted by: antu
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Posted by: Mojoe on Apr 10, 2007 7:46 PM
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» Sounds like just another 'religion' to me...
Posted by: Sojourner
» RE: Kill all the religious people. They are obviously unintelligent and they cause all the wars.
Posted by: counterpoint
» RE: Kill all the religious people. They are obviously unintelligent and they cause all the wars.
Posted by: solrev
» RE: Kill all the religious people. They are obviously unintelligent and they cause all the wars.
Posted by: LeftCoastProgressive
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Posted by: common intelligence on Apr 10, 2007 10:07 PM
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Followers, believers, the delusionary... everyone seems to be looking out side their own hearts for GOD.
Each one of you is a direct desendant, the literal blood of God. Yet most all "feel'" alienated from God as if "He" is somewhere else or "not" in your presents.
Suicidal bombers to a suicidal society here in the USA you all deny God and ask out side your selves for the
"Answer".
If anyone thinks God cares or doesn't, it's only yo whom does or doesn't. If you want the "end" you have but to end it. It will be done! You of little faith, look in the mirror of your heart. Listen not to the whiners and debaters of JC or GW! JC already died. So you have free choice to be as God or separate. What'll it be?
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» RE: funny quote
Posted by: solrev
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Posted by: wisegalah on Apr 11, 2007 5:45 AM
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They are all exactly the same type of people with the same problem.
Fundamentally they are cowards, too afraid to ask what the real situation may be. They want to blame anyone else for their pain and difficulty and will punish those whom they imagine to be in any way responsible for their condition. In their pain, confusion and silliness they follow anyone who claims to have an answer. Many even follow someone as stupid as plainly dishonest as that little shit of an American president.
I do have some time for those who live out the twisted logic of their lives at some risk to themselves.
I reserve my deepest contempt and loathing for the priests, rabbis, mullahs and politicians who foster the differences, encourage violence, always of course from a safe place, and then profit from their lies and their cynical use of those disposable, easily-lead others.
Wisegalah in Sydney.
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Posted by: poppop_schell on Apr 11, 2007 7:36 AM
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» RE: I AM CURIOUS??? ARE THERE ANY PEOPLE OF FAITH ON ALTERNET? - Yep, But You're Not One Of Them
Posted by: thirdmg
» ARE THERE ANY PEOPLE OF FAITH ON ALTERNET?
Posted by: LeftCoastProgressive
» RE: ARE THERE ANY .... liberal redneck
Posted by: OhioPatriot
» RE: ARE THERE ANY .... liberal redneck
Posted by: poppop_schell
» RE: ARE THERE ANY .... liberal redneck.leftcoast progressive
Posted by: OhioPatriot
» RE: ARE THERE ANY .... liberal redneck.leftcoast progressive
Posted by: poppop_schell
» RE: I AM CURIOUS??? ARE THERE ANY PEOPLE OF FAITH ON ALTERNET?
Posted by: The Big Raven
» RE: I AM CURIOUS??? ARE THERE ANY PEOPLE OF FAITH ON ALTERNET?
Posted by: poppop_schell
» RE: I AM CURIOUS??? ARE THERE ANY PEOPLE OF FAITH ON ALTERNET?
Posted by: morticia
» RE: I AM CURIOUS??? ARE THERE ANY PEOPLE OF FAITH ON ALTERNET?
Posted by: poppop_schell
» RE: I AM CURIOUS??? ARE THERE ANY PEOPLE OF FAITH ON ALTERNET?
Posted by: morticia
» RE: I AM CURIOUS??? ARE THERE ANY PEOPLE OF FAITH ON ALTERNET?
Posted by: poppop_schell
» RE: I AM CURIOUS??? ARE THERE ANY PEOPLE OF FAITH ON ALTERNET?
Posted by: morticia
» RE: I AM CURIOUS??? ARE THERE ANY PEOPLE OF FAITH ON ALTERNET?
Posted by: poppop_schell
» Oh, come on. You're not reading.
Posted by: Beck
» RE: Oh, come on. You're not reading.
Posted by: poppop_schell
» RE: I AM CURIOUS??? ARE THERE ANY PEOPLE OF FAITH ON ALTERNET?
Posted by: LeaderofMen
» RE: I AM CURIOUS??? ARE THERE ANY PEOPLE OF FAITH ON ALTERNET?
Posted by: poppop_schell
» RE: I AM CURIOUS??? dear leader of men, do you smoke? do drugs? drink alcohol?
Posted by: OhioPatriot
» self destuctive nature??
Posted by: counterpoint
» RE: self destuctive nature??
Posted by: poppop_schell
» RE: I AM CURIOUS??? dear leader of men, do you smoke? do drugs? drink alcohol?
Posted by: poppop_schell
Comments are closed-
Posted by: The Big Raven on Apr 11, 2007 9:43 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Burn your churches for the resources that they hoard while people starve or worst murdered by your cursading warriors is the REAL SIN.
I have read ALL the major books about the world religions and none ring ANY TRUTH and that is the truth!
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» RE: give me a break
Posted by: djnoll
» RE: give me a break
Posted by: OhioPatriot
» RE: give me a break
Posted by: aussidawg
» RE: give me a break
Posted by: OhioPatriot
» You know, your own posts are full of mistakes
Posted by: Beck
» RE: You know, your own posts are full of mistakes
Posted by: OhioPatriot
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Posted by: craftne on Apr 11, 2007 11:33 AM
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It saddens me that these fundamental extreme Christian groups talk about how evil the rest of the world is compared to them, and they point fingers and call names and are angry and even violent. It's an "okay to hurt my neighbor" mentality.
These fundamental and judgmental groups are a grave concern, in that scared and traumatised and suffering people can be manipulated into believing things, such as the best will come after death, which absolves them of any responsibility for breaking negative behaviour patterns and habits that lead to problems and misery in this lifetime.
That is very sad, for two reasons. Firstly, these factions do not bring people together, but pull them apart. Splintered, we can not grow and develop as human beings. Secondly, people are not living for right now, working on themselves to find lasting happiness and security IN THIS LIFETIME.
What those two things accomplish is that it creates more suffering, more problems on the planet right now.
To solve problems and suffering, a person must understand his/her own mind and understand others with EQUINIMITY. Only through compassion and understanding can we reach this goal.
And what's very sad is that when these people die, they will die with all their negative habits, all their negative emotions, and they will return to work on them again.
And that's a wasted life. Except for the fact that they taught me how NOT to be.
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Posted by: OhioPatriot on Apr 11, 2007 2:38 PM
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The spew is always the same. "We all must fear and fight the religious christian right". It is so much bullshit it makes me sick.
The ONLY REASON these article find thier way here is POLITICS, and you would have to be a fool not to see that.
The Christian right in this country helps to work against key issues like Abortion, Gay Marriage, Euthanasia laws, legalized narcotics, and the list goes on. It is thier right to be a part of these movements and to advance policies that they believe are for the betterment of future generation.
Obviously they are opposed by the far left in policy, the far left has to constantly reaffirm its stance on abortion due to continued challenges in the courts, gay marriage has failed on the vast majority of state ballots that it has appeared, euthanasia laws are opposed bitterly, and the war on drugs is in direct conflict to legalization of narcotics.
So its easy to say that since the Christians and thier bible are against all these things then they must be the driving force behind the opposition. and there lies the fundamental mistake. The Christian right is a very small slice of a large piece of the population (the majority) that see these as not matters of moral values but rather tradional values.
The fact that many of these key issues coincide with religious beliefs is a nonfactor but to two groups, the far right that spreads its feathers as if its proof that the nation is predominately filled with devout Christians, and the far left whom evidently believe them and are terrified.
So we get another sickening and blatantly bias article that almost poeticly dehumanizes the Christians through vague inuendu and unsubstantiated stories with a side order of fearfull hatred.
Folks, this does nothing to ensure constuctive dialogue about ISSUES. It only serves to entice hatred and widen the chasm between the people who are nearer center of the road on these issues. the hatred is evident in these hate strewn posts
I hope there is one person out there who can see what I see.
I am sure there are many who don't.
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» RE: An unwarranted fear of Christianity prevails here.
Posted by: aussidawg
» No, this article criticized a type of militant, fake, right-wing "christianity". . .
Posted by: Beck
» RE: No, this article criticized a type of militant, fake, right-wing "christianity". . .
Posted by: poppop_schell
» RE: The answer to that question does not have to be a "key factor" to anyone here
Posted by: OhioPatriot
» You didn't respond, either, and just what is my "ilk"?
Posted by: Beck
» RE: You didn't respond, either, and just what is my "ilk"?
Posted by: OhioPatriot
» RE: The answer to that question does not have to be a "key factor" to anyone here
Posted by: poppop_schell
» Hardly
Posted by: Graeme
Comments are closed-
Posted by: dayahka on Apr 11, 2007 3:53 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The hoping for the end is not the effect of the "causes" you mention; it's exactly the opposite: hoping for the end is a key ingredient of fundamentalistic and evangelistic Christianity, it is their foundation...And having no religious legitimacy? Again, utter nonsense...The radical Christian right is mainstream, legitimate Christianity. Study, even read, your religious history. That "great" protestant originator was a rabid anti-semite (and anti-Moslem); Calvin makes Stalin out to be a saint; these guys are normal, standard, within the so-called rightwing of Protestant Christianity.
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Posted by: opeluboy on Apr 11, 2007 6:59 PM
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This is not to say these insane right-wing Christianists don't have it coming to them, but how about just a tad of parity, folks?
And by the way, you're arming the right. They don't need the help.
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» RE: I wonder...
Posted by: craftne
» RE: I wonder...
Posted by: aussidawg
» RE: I wonder...
Posted by: craftne
» RE: I wonder...What Evils Done In The Name Of Buddhism?
Posted by: thirdmg
» RE: I wonder...
Posted by: opeluboy
» RE: I wonder... - Was WWII A Buddhist Religious War?
Posted by: thirdmg
» RE: I wonder... - Was WWII A Buddhist Religious War?
Posted by: opeluboy
» RE: I wonder... - Was WWII A Buddhist Religious War?
Posted by: thirdmg
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Posted by: acers on Apr 11, 2007 9:09 PM
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Posted by: poppop_schell on Apr 12, 2007 7:12 AM
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» No, Alternet follows the practice of free speech
Posted by: Beck
» RE: No, Alternet follows the practice of free speech
Posted by: poppop_schell
» RE: No, Alternet follows the practice of free speech
Posted by: Beck
» RE: No, Alternet follows the practice of free speech
Posted by: poppop_schell
» RE: No, Alternet follows the practice of free speech
Posted by: poppop_schell
» RE: No, Alternet follows the practice of free speech-Examples Of Poppop_schell's "Tolerance"
Posted by: thirdmg
» RE: No, Alternet follows the practice of free speech-Examples Of Poppop_schell's "Tolerance"
Posted by: poppop_schell
» no free speech at work: BYU lacks free speech; why not ask rightwing Christians why they're failures
Posted by: Beck
» RE: no free speech at work: BYU lacks free speech; why not ask rightwing Christians why they're failures
Posted by: poppop_schell
» Your prince of peace carries the sword
Posted by: counterpoint
» RE: Your prince of peace carries the sword
Posted by: poppop_schell
» RE: Your prince of peace carries the sword
Posted by: poppop_schell
» RE: no free speech at work: BYU lacks free speech; why not ask rightwing Christians why they're fail
Posted by: Beck
» RE: no free speech at work: BYU lacks free speech; why not ask rightwing Christians why they're fail
Posted by: poppop_schell
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Beck on Apr 13, 2007 6:42 AM
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» RE: to those who think this site attacks religion
Posted by: poppop_schell
» RE: You didn't respond to what I said about rightwing hypocrisy and judgement
Posted by: poppop_schell
Comments are closed-
Posted by: lindalee on Apr 13, 2007 7:49 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A parting note to the conservative trolls out there - you are all just a little ridiculous and some of your posts are just amazingly ignorant. I may not totally agree with every liberal post on here, but I have never agreed with any conservative post.
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» RE: Alternet and religion
Posted by: poppop_schell
» RE: Why WOULD she agree? And she condemned conservatives, not religion!
Posted by: poppop_schell
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Posted by: thirdmg on Apr 13, 2007 8:52 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Recovery from Mormonism - Dissenters from the Mormon religion provide alternate viewpoints and social support: "...for those who are questioning their faith in the Mormon Church and for those who need support as they transition their lives to a normal life."
* * *
And for the Christian conservative visitors at AlterNet who might imagine that they have found a kindred spirit in poppup_schell and his conservative views, you might want to read views from born-again Christians who used to be Mormons but now oppose the teachings:
Utah Lighthouse Ministry - Quotes from the site:
"The purpose of this site is to document problems with the claims of Mormonism and compare LDS doctrines with Christianity."
"Many Mormons will stand up in testimony meeting and dogmatically assert that Joseph Smith was a prophet and that they belong to 'the only true church,' but very few of them check to make sure that their faith is based on reality. Many members of the Mormon church prefer to let their leaders do their thinking ("when our leaders speak, the thinking has been done"); it is so easy to let someone else do our thinking." - The Changing World of Mormonism
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» RE: What Ex-Mormons Say About The Mormon Church
Posted by: poppop_schell
» bitter?
Posted by: counterpoint
» RE: bitter?
Posted by: thirdmg
» RE: bitter? who you jiving with that cosmik debris?
Posted by: counterpoint
» RE: bitter? who you jiving with that cosmik debris?
Posted by: poppop_schell
» your personal arbitrary beliefs are irrelevant in this context
Posted by: counterpoint
» RE: your personal arbitrary beliefs are irrelevant in this context
Posted by: poppop_schell
» RE: your personal arbitrary beliefs are irrelevant in this context
Posted by: poppop_schell
» RE: bitter? who you jiving with that cosmik debris?
Posted by: fork
» RE: bitter? who you jiving with that cosmik debris?
Posted by: poppop_schell
» RE: bitter? who you jiving with that cosmik debris?
Posted by: fork
» RE: bitter? who you jiving with that cosmik debris?
Posted by: poppop_schell
» could you please say directly who is a dog, who are swine?
Posted by: Beck
» RE: could you please say directly who is a dog, who are swine?
Posted by: poppop_schell
» RE: bitter? who you jiving with that cosmik debris?-Well Said, Fork
Posted by: thirdmg
» RE: bitter? who you jiving with that cosmik debris?-Well Said, Fork
Posted by: poppop_schell
» RE: bitter? who you jiving with that cosmik debris?-Well Said, Fork
Posted by: poppop_schell
» What does Jesus say right before that?
Posted by: Beck
» RE: What does Jesus say right before that?
Posted by: poppop_schell
» RE: What does Jesus say right before that?
Posted by: poppop_schell
» google
Posted by: fork
» RE: google
Posted by: poppop_schell
» Matthew 19 says men can be born with their sexual preference.
Posted by: Beck
» RE: Matthew 19 says men can be born with their sexual preference.
Posted by: poppop_schell
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Posted by: Collinb on Apr 14, 2007 2:12 PM
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Enjoy.
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Posted by: VeryBlessed on Apr 14, 2007 8:24 PM
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» RE: That's a statement of your belief; how specifically is the article not truthful?
Posted by: VeryBlessed
» RE: That's a statement of your belief; how specifically is the article not truthful?
Posted by: VeryBlessed
» RE: That's a statement of your belief; how specifically is the article not truthful?
Posted by: VeryBlessed
» RE: That's a statement of your belief; how specifically is the article not truthful?
Posted by: VeryBlessed
Comments are closed-
Posted by: CombatJourno on Apr 15, 2007 8:26 PM
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Cause don't believe for one moment that any law passed by "The forces of Satan" is going to be obeyed for one moment by these people. And that means they've got a monopoly of force.
Yet what do we get from the Democratic Congress right out of the gate, more sweeping gun control measures that will only disarm the reasonable, law abiding.
Chris, you and I have seen what went down in Jugo. We saw what happened when those Serbian fanatics in their wrap around sunglasses rolled into those essentially unarmed Bosnian villages with the contents of a national guard armory in their trunks...
We also saw what happened when the Bosnians had a few guns of their own...Serbs stopped. Was it pretty, no. But it wasn't the "All sides are equally guilty" we get from the Serbian apologists either. There's music in Sarajevo still.
Which brings me back to my salient point...why on earth would the very targets of these sorts of fanatics willingly surrender the right to bear arms? Cause that's what that pesky 2nd ammendment is really about...resisting those who would oppress with the one thing that uniformly gets the attention of people like that...imminent use of defensive force.
It forces dogma to the back and reality based descisions to the fore when presented with someone possed of the capacity to resist in kind. Reality check...
Hard to bring that sort of dynamic into play when all you've got to bring to the equation is words that will be ignored, pleas that will be laughed at and maybe a handful of granola to throw.
Are you worried about these kind of fanatics? You need to be. They have a habit of rearing up out of the possible and into the realm of the at your door with alarming regularity throughout history. Who paid any mind when Hitler was delivering his ravings to a bunch of low bred drunks in the beer halls of Munich? Nobody. But boy did he get everyone's attention when social and economic factors combined to bring his vision to reality. (and a very precarious social and economic reality is with us as we speak...)
So, again, why the talk on the one hand about fanatics who obviously aren't going to listen to reason, and legislated helplessness in the same breath? It defies logic.
Are you worried about these kinds of people? Well, history has shown that they don't do real well when push comes to shove against people who will not be walked over.
The only way to ensure that the fanatic stays in the realm of hot air and sand punding over the long run is to ensure that rational, responsible people like us ALWAYS have the means to resist the demagouge.
Try to take down a swarm of Armed hippies, Fags, Dykes, muscians, artists, craftsmen, organics and other assorted progressives with their back to a concentration camp wall and watch what happens. You'd better pack a lunch, there, Rapture Krew.
That's why the Jim Crow south outlawed gun ownership by blacks. That's why Hitler outlawed gun ownership by jews. That's why it was illegal to sell repeaters to Indians.
That's what YOUR right to bear arms is all about. 24-7 deterent against demagouges who by hook, crook or accident of history get a leg up over the rest of us.
Progressives beware...you are in the crosshairs. Don't legislate away the only means you may have in the end to do something about it. You don't have to fear these people...
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» RE: Arm the Hippies
Posted by: CombatJourno
» RE: Arm the Hippies
Posted by: CombatJourno
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Posted by: surrendered on Apr 16, 2007 12:32 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Is it possible that many of us naturally demonstrate in our lives the teaching of Jesus. And other "prophets" that have clearly delivered thier message of Love and forgiveness as a way of Being?
The Bible was written hundreds of years AFTER Jesus was crucified. And altered by the Nicsean Council so as to maintain control of the masses. Jesus was a son of God who demonstrated the Power of God that exists in each and every creation. The Christ Consciouness is to know you are not separate from God and that we are all created as perfection in the eyes of God.
If you were taught from childhood that you are a "sinner" and inherently evil unless you adopt the doctrines of a religion that preaches Paradise but delivers Hell, maybe you would be somewhat insane.
If Christianity taught that we all have the Power of God within us at all times, there would be no need to attend religious meetings and put your dollars in the basket that goes to a church who's agenda is to allienate and judge those who do not beleive in your god.
God Almighty, the Creator of All that Exists, including good and evil, Simply ALL; does not Create imperfectly.
All conflicting philosophies which promote a Way of Being are equally the Creation and Will of God Almighty: Nazism to Judaism; Mormonism to Catholicism; Buddhism to Baptism; Nietzche to Marx; Christ to Hitler. All points of view are necessary, and the Perfect Will of God and His Remarkable Plan for the Salvation of Mankind. Men have believed most earnestly in all these points of view. It should be obvious by now, at least to some of you, that belief is of very little consequence to Salvation.
One observes the more religious brethern ever more loudly attacking some aspect of God's Creation.
The only function of religion is to provide you with a comfortable step, or point of view, from which you can examine you relationship with God. And remember this, you must forgive those who do not fit into your religion, or there will be no Salvation for you in this lifetime...............
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Posted by: opeluboy on Apr 16, 2007 6:55 PM
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Here's 3 quotes for you:
‘If ordered to march: tramp, tramp or shoot: bang, bang. This is the manifestation of the highest wisdom of enlightenment. The unity of Zen and war ... extends to the farthest reaches of the holy war now under way.’ (Zen Master Harada Daiun Sogaku – 1939).
‘Warriors who sacrifice their lives for the emperor will not die. They will live forever. Truly they should be called gods and Buddhas for whom there is no life or death. Where there is absolute loyalty there is no life or death.’ (Lieutenant Colonel Sugimoto Goro)
‘Since the Meiji period, our (Soto Zen) sect has cooperated in waging war.’ (Soto Zen Statement of Repentance – 1992).
I suggest reading Zen at War and maybe the Rape of Nanking to rid yourselves of the myth that all those that practice Buddhism are peaceful.
Know what you're talking about before you respond next time.
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» RE: No Buddhist war?
Posted by: craftne
» RE: No Buddhist war?
Posted by: opeluboy
» RE: No Buddhist war? - Was WWII A Buddhist Religious War?
Posted by: thirdmg
Comments are closed-
Posted by: mantra77 on Apr 16, 2007 7:39 PM
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Political Correctness is a religion, i.e. a structured belief system based on faith. A religion need not have a god, although Political Correctness appears to have one. Its god is Hitler, an altogether evil god that is despised by its followers. In this respect Political Correctness is similar to the Aztec religions whose evil gods had to be appeased with constant human sacrifice. The evil god Hitler needs to be kept at bay with constant discrimination against whites.
The doctrine of Political Correctness measures everything against this god, the evil Adolf Hitler. In this religion, everything that Hitler believed in is evil, and everything that he opposed is good. This belief system condenses to two doctrines:
* Non-white minorities are to be worshipped in the morning
* The white majority is to be degraded in the evening
And is based on this one cardinal faith:
Whites are oppressors; therefore whites deserve discrimination and racism to redress the imbalance.
This faith is in turn sustained and legitimised by three anti-white racial theories:
1. The Unique History of White Evil theory
2. The Unearned White Skin-color Privilege theory
3. The White Majority Deference theory
The Unique History of White Evil Theory
This racial theory holds that "whites cannot evade history". It is a racial theory because it justifies discrimination against a group based on their (Euro-Christian) ancestry alone irrespective of actual participation or consent (in slavery, holocaust, etc.) and therefore denies innocence as a defense.
The Unearned White Skin-color Privilege Theory
This racial theory holds that "whites cannot evade responsibility". It is a racial theory because it justifies discrimination against individuals based on their (Euro-Christian) ancestry alone irrespective of actual status or financial condition and therefore denies innocence as a defense.
The White Majority Deference Theory
This racial theory holds that "majorities must serve minorities unless the minority is white". It is a racial theory because its discriminatory logic applies exclusively to whites. For example, suggesting the reverse, that white minorities in South Africa or Detroit should have not equal but superior rights is widely considered insane.
And to keep their evil god Adolf Hitler at bay these religious freakazoids believe they have to keep calling for more and more racist affrimative action to sacrifice my children's future.
Why? Because The Evil God Adolf Hitler must be kept at bay! Sacrifice! Sacrifice! Lest he ARISE and BLOT OUT THE SUN!! and stomp cars with his feet! And gas Jews with his farts!!
And don't you dare violate the Great Sacred Truth,
“If you go against your group interests while black you’re an uncle tom, if you do so while white you’re open-minded. Amen. If you express group interests while black you’re standing up for your people, if you do so while white you’re racist. Amen.”
Bob’s Riddle
“All anti-white racists agree that it’s ok for whites to become minorities in their own countries. All anti-white racists also agree that a Japanese person who wants to become a minority in his own country is either a traitor or clinically insane. Therefore, what is an anti-white racist?”
Answer: http://mantra7777.blogspot.com
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» Note to AussieDog
Posted by: gusto
» Congratulations
Posted by: Graeme
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Posted by: ShrubtheWarcriminal on Apr 17, 2007 12:43 PM
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Posted by: Staggo on Apr 17, 2007 10:04 PM
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Posted by: TruthBeTold on Apr 19, 2007 7:32 AM
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If these people were concerned about the betterment of future generation, why don't they spend their time trying to eliminate hunger in this country and across the world?
Why don't they spend their time Woking to ensure that people with serious medical conditions and no insurance get the care that they need?
That the elderly don't have to choose between life saving medication and food?
Why don't they spend their time working for groups like Habitat for Humanity or the local homeless shelter?
Why don't they spend their time helping cancer patients, cleaning up their neighborhoods, helping poor people in improvised countries learn farming and irrigation methods, or helping wounded and disabled soldiers languishing in hospital?
Better yet, why don't they spend their time trying to educate themselves and their children to become independent thinkers and stop following the LaHays like blind sheep?
Ohio Patriot, surely you don't think that these people represent all Christians? They don't represent me. People who are capable of intelligent though know that Christians come in all stripes and colors and denominations.
And by the way, do you really think that LaHay and Jenkins, who have made millions on the nonsense they call books, believe in the end times for themselves? What, are they going to take their millions with them to live in luxury in heaven.
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» RE: Not Delusional from oh patriot
Posted by: OhioPatriot
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Posted by: wawa on Apr 10, 2007 7:13 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Which is politically driven and inherently anti-Semitic theology based on FEAR;
FEAR is how totalitarian regimes manipulate and control the people.
The gospel/good news JC preached was:
"FEAR NOT! You shall know the truth and the truth will set you free."
JC was into liberation-NOT control.
JC was never a Christian-he was born, lived and died under OCCUPATION.
JC was a social justice radical revolutionary Palestinian devout Jewish road warrior who ROSE UP and challenged the job security of the Temple by teaching the people they did NOT need to pay the high priests for ritual baths or sacrificing livestock to be OK with God,
God loved them just as they were;
Diseased, outcasts, sinners, widows, orphans, refugees, prisoners, all enduring under Roman occupation.
There are many Christian voices challenging the likes of Hagee, Lindsay, Robertson, Fawell,
To name but 3
www.sabeel.org
http://www.sizers.org/
http://www.wearewideawake.org/
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» Jesus was a radical liberal
Posted by: MartianBachelor
» RE: Jesus was a radical liberal
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» Pardon Me!?!
Posted by: djnoll
» excellent, djnoll nm
Posted by: Beck
» RE: Pardon Me!?!
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Pardon Me!?!
Posted by: lively56
» RE: Pardon Me!?!
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Pardon Me!?!
Posted by: aussidawg
» RE: Pardon Me!?!
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Pardon Me!?!
Posted by: aussidawg
» RE: Pardon Me!?!
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Pardon Me!?!
Posted by: aussidawg
» RE: Pardon Me!?!
Posted by: gonzoskismet
» RE: Pardon Me!?!
Posted by: aussidawg
» RE: Ah, "give unto Ceasar what is his"...love that one
Posted by: ateo
» RE: Ah, "give unto Ceasar what is his"...love that one
Posted by: ohb0b
» RE: Ah, "give unto Ceasar what is his"...love that one
Posted by: psychotic1
» RE: Pardon Me!?!
Posted by: Malamute
» he was a radical feminist, too
Posted by: Beck
» bobvb@cox.net
Posted by: Robert Veasey
» RE: bobvb@cox.net
Posted by: ohb0b
» RE: Jesus was a radical liberal
Posted by: Rolomax
» conservasaurus is a faux-conservative
Posted by: brasilaron
» Jesus Has Been Marginalized....
Posted by: CatDad
» Sorry, but Jesus wasn't a revolutionary in the modern sense of the word
Posted by: brunowe
» No, you're just trying to co-opt him.
Posted by: brunowe
» He sought to rewrite Jewish power, and negate alot of it
Posted by: Beck
» RE: He sought to rewrite Jewish power, and negate alot of it
Posted by: brunowe
» but you wrote that Jesus' main message was the end of the world and God making everything alright?
Posted by: Beck
» Well, if he's coming back and passing God's judgement, that implies an overthrow of unrighteousness.
Posted by: brunowe
» RE: Well, if he's coming back and passing God's judgement, that implies an overthrow of unrighteousn
Posted by: particle
» He is radical if he said those things to those in power; put it in the context of the whole passage.
Posted by: Beck
» RE: He is radical if he said those things to those in power; put it in the context of the whole passage.
Posted by: smccaw
» Oh, you said it; he'd hang out with the "wrong" people again, and say all the wrong things
Posted by: Beck
» Luke 19:27 "…and slay them before me" isn't violent and radical??
Posted by: whyoung
» If God is God
Posted by: openhouse
» RE: THANK YOU
Posted by: yellow
» displaying ignorance
Posted by: openhouse
» RE: THANK YOU
Posted by: clydeb1443
» RE: THANK YOU
Posted by: yellow
» RE: THANK YOU
Posted by: redweasel61
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Posted by: liberalibrarian on Apr 10, 2007 7:15 AM
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It breaks my heart that this is a large trend of Christianity. That more than one patron has come to me in the library and asked for these books, because "people don't read the bible you know"--I say they are in FICTION but of course they don't get it. They take the books out by the armload.
They can't burn themselves out fast enough...they are the ones who are bringing on their self fulfilling "prophesy" and they are the scariest people around.
One of the bumper stickers on my car says "In case of Rapture I'm taking your car"...hope it's a BMW
All this got it's start in the mid 1800's among other fanatic, oddball religious bunk. I'll take secular humanism, Taoism and UU any day. And send out my intentions to the Universe that these scary souls go by the wayside quickly.
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» RE: fanatic fantasy not noble sentiment
Posted by: ohb0b
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Posted by: P3K on Apr 10, 2007 7:22 AM
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» RE: wormfood
Posted by: amrahne
» RE: wormfood
Posted by: openhouse
» RE: wormfood
Posted by: psychotic1
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Posted by: ZPaul on Apr 10, 2007 7:25 AM
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» RE: Nothing To Do With Jesus Christ
Posted by: Gisele
» RE: Nothing To Do With Jesus Christ
Posted by: ZPaul
» Add me to the list.
Posted by: Sojourner
» i applaud your rejection...
Posted by: brasilaron
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Posted by: JoshuaLudd on Apr 10, 2007 7:33 AM
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So... even when they controlled all three houses until last november... the nation was still being run by liberals?
Thats right up there with their religious majority is being persecuted.
These people are utterly dellusional.
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» RE: The world run by "liberals"?
Posted by: Roberto
» RE: The world run by "liberals"?
Posted by: ohb0b
» RE: The world run by "liberals"?
Posted by: ohb0b
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Posted by: emmanuel_goldstein_fights_fake_lefties on Apr 10, 2007 7:36 AM
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» I notice you dropped the pet issue that was covered by Alternet...
Posted by: JoshuaLudd
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Posted by: reval on Apr 10, 2007 7:37 AM
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Insist that they arm themselves daily against the forces of madness.
WVCSR
Rev. El Mundo
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» RE: Teach your children well
Posted by: CombatJourno
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Posted by: NoPCZone on Apr 10, 2007 7:37 AM
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Timothy LaHaye is a scam artist who should know better. The whole concept of 'Christian Fiction' is antithetical to faith in general and Christianity in particular. The message of the Christian faith is a claim to a universal truth that God has called all people to be reconciled to peace, grace, love, mercy, charity, and hope- that a cold, hard, selfish, greedy, violent and merciless world is not our only option. A teaching that each and every person is our brother and sister and that we are responsible for them- not just ourselves. A message of hope- not fear.
Jesus never charged admission nor did he sell anything. LaHaye and his ilk sell everything.
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» Paranoia justifies all
Posted by: UnEasyOne
» RE: Paranoia justifies all
Posted by: craftne
» Liberals the anti Christ???
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» Trying to highjack and confuse - ignore.
Posted by: Knowmad
» RE: Trying to highjack and confuse - ignore.
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» What the hell . . .
Posted by: russianblue1
» RE: What the hell . . .
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: What the hell . . .
Posted by: ohb0b
» RE: What the hell . . .
Posted by: Vandover
» RE: Liberals the anti Christ???
Posted by: ZPaul
» RE: Liberals the anti Christ???
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Conservasaurus.
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: Conservasaurus.
Posted by: brasilaron
» RE: Conservasaurus.
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Conservasaurus.
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: Conservasaurus.
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Conservasaurus.
Posted by: ohb0b
Comments are closed-
Posted by: zyxwvut on Apr 10, 2007 7:43 AM
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We as a nation have allowed the conditions that promote apocalypticism to gain strength. We should blame ourselves collectively.
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Posted by: reval on Apr 10, 2007 7:43 AM
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WVCSR
Rev. El Mundo
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Posted by: zyxwvut on Apr 10, 2007 7:48 AM
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Posted by: orwellwasn'tdreaming on Apr 10, 2007 7:51 AM
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Excellent point, right on target, and too often ignored.
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» I WATCHED THE MERGER OF THE REP PARTY AND THE REL RIGHT IN HOUSTON 30 YRS AGO, OR SO , AND
Posted by: mdruss42
» RE: I WATCHED THE MERGER OF THE REP PARTY AND THE REL RIGHT IN HOUSTON 30 YRS AGO, OR SO , AND
Posted by: chomsky
» RE: I WATCHED THE MERGER OF THE REP PARTY AND THE REL RIGHT IN HOUSTON 30 YRS AGO, OR SO , AND
Posted by: IndyElliott
» I was shouting. I am 65 years old and have watched this go on and was able, even back then to
Posted by: mdruss42
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Posted by: cmaukonen on Apr 10, 2007 8:10 AM
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These very people are the ones who have supported and previously benefited from these very things they now despise.
And so it goes.
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» RE: And who is to blame....
Posted by: craftne
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Posted by: frank67 on Apr 10, 2007 8:11 AM
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Posted by: zyxwvut on Apr 10, 2007 8:13 AM
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All legitimacy is assumed by groups, whether they are corporate groups herding us over the cliff of globalization or religious groups that give popular vent to corporate-generated despair through faith in the Christian utopia. In this paradigm -- corporate and religious -- we become disempowered, afraid, passive and easily manipulated.
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» RE: These leaders are channeling the rage of these oppressed souls
Posted by: cmaukonen
» RE: These leaders are channeling the rage of these oppressed souls
Posted by: rjgwood
» RE: These leaders are channeling the rage of these oppressed souls
Posted by: Lincoln fan
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Posted by: jurgen on Apr 10, 2007 8:22 AM
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» RE: John A. Broussard
Posted by: outsideagitator
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Posted by: juanpecan81 on Apr 10, 2007 8:29 AM
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You can't force awareness or critique on people, but the first step is to still recognize them as people and equals. They've been deluded by the empty promises of imperialism/capitalism and they look to the strong daddy to provide answers. Common (universal?) problem with unique expressions.
These people are probably lonely, isolated and have an unplaceable anger (also sounds familiar). They probably feel robbed: deprived of something owed to them.
They are products of a social order that teaches a blind obediance to authority (as opposed to a productive discourse on how authority/social standards need to be adjusted to reach a workable human balance). A preacher placing a name, any name, and directing that anger anywhere is welcome...especially when playing on our natural ingroup/outgroup tendencies.
So where do we go? I'd like to hear yr thoughts.
2 thoughts for the discussion:
"To contract something, you must first let it expand" - Tao te Ching
"We win justice quickest by rendering justice to the other party" - Gandhi (what is justice? the absence of negative influence/control?)
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» with them? I doubt it.
Posted by: counterpoint
» Use Microsoft tactics
Posted by: Dboy
» THE GREAT MAJORITY OF THESE PEOPLE ARE FOLLOWERS, AND WANT SOMEONE TO TELL
Posted by: mdruss42
» RE: How do we make progress with them?
Posted by: IndyElliott
» RE: How do we make progress with them?
Posted by: rjgwood
» RE: How do we make progress with them?
Posted by: craftne
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Posted by: Aimee on Apr 10, 2007 8:31 AM
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Aimee
DataOptions.com
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» Most institutions are cults of obedience.
Posted by: zyxwvut
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Posted by: catnapping on Apr 10, 2007 8:35 AM
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As a native american who is NOT christianist, I dare not tell people here in the corporeal world that I am pagan. I have seen christianists turn on a DIME when they found out someone they LIKED and respected was pagan.
There is no freedom of religion in this country. Not until people like me can practice our faith in the open. But as long as christianists get to demonize us...we're at risk...they'd send us to the ovens, given half the chance. (it won't stop with the Muslims).
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» RE: Christianism...
Posted by: brainvib
» RE: Christianism...
Posted by: catnapping
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Posted by: Gisele on Apr 10, 2007 8:38 AM
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We've been warned of one-world government, and one-world religion, it will come to pass no matter what we do. It's already well on it's way! Those leading both groups will be misled Christians, or those using the guise of Christianity to do their work. Unfortunately, too many good people have let LaHaye, Hagee, Falwell, Robertson and numerous Popes run away with their faith and their common sense.
Remember that old saying your Mama taught you? "Dance with the one what brung ya"...that means if you're going to call yourself a Christian, be one - DO what He did. Not what the hate mongers in the mega-churches are trying to shove down your throat - and everyone else's. It's well past time for Christians to show respect for other religions whether they're agreed with or not. That means reading your own Bible, not taking a pastor or ministers word for what they think it means - you will find that God has many Sons, but only one "begotten" one. All of those Sons deserve our respect, whether they are Islamic, Buddhist or any other religion.
Finally will someone from the Christian Right please show me where Jesus advocated violence in any form to accomplish His will? You can't...and you know it. So please stop calling yourself "Christian"...you're giving Him and those who truly try follow Him, a bad name.
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» accurate prophecy? Garbage!
Posted by: counterpoint
» RE: accurate prophecy? Garbage!
Posted by: djnoll
» RE: accurate prophecy? Garbage!
Posted by: counterpoint
» RE: accurate prophecy? Garbage!
Posted by: Gisele
» Believe as you do?
Posted by: doctorsquared
» children of God
Posted by: openhouse
» RE: children of God
Posted by: counterpoint
» RE: children of God
Posted by: djnoll
» RE: children of God
Posted by: counterpoint
» RE: children of God
Posted by: craftne
» historicity
Posted by: openhouse
Comments are closed-
Posted by: abqbabe on Apr 10, 2007 8:42 AM
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The same disillusionment, anger, despair, and "highest hopes" contrasted with the desire for revenge against those who have created the ugliness, immorality and inequities of the world, fuel not only the masses of the Christian Right, but Islamic Fundamentalism as well, from suicide bombers to the rigid strictures of Wahabism. It is only a small step for the Christian Right to become the American edition of the Taliban.
Saddest of all is that these two political groups (Christian and Muslim), separated by culture and ignorance, actually want the exact same thing. Instead, their leaders foment ever more misunderstanding and hatred among their followers to enhance their own power.
It is tribalism writ big, with a very earthly agenda of longing for power over those "not us" - the unbelievers - and reward for and vindication of one's own fears and prejudices.
To long for destruction is to long for death: to choose death is to choose Satan. Those seeking the End Times have already forsaken the God they claim to worship, and closed their ears to His message.
Ary
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» Christians and Muslims want the same thing - REALLY??
Posted by: counterpoint
» RE: Christians and Muslims want the same thing - REALLY??
Posted by: Animal
» RE: Christians and Muslims want the same thing - REALLY??
Posted by: counterpoint
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Posted by: caru on Apr 10, 2007 8:43 AM
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i am glad you point out they lack any appreciation for beauty. they consume the land, they do not connect to the beauty of the creation -- turtle island -- we need only tune into the sacred earth and get some real religion -- the beauty of this creation that is us. that is all it takes to be indigi, enjoy the numinous moment and the beauty of the land and water and all the amazing little and large creatures.
chris, can you please write some words of those who have abandoned this apcolaptic way of thinking and have come onto the truth of indigenous living on this planet. the ancient truths in yoga and shamanism. the mystics. jc was a mystic who studied yoga ... we need to provide a path for those locked onto full on destruction ... we need to outline a path of beauty -- including the ancient way of the iroquois -- which our constitution is based on -- including womun ... we need to outline a path which can gingerly bring us back from this crazed mind that these crazed people perpetuate.
may the world be at peace. may we all find our way in peace. blessings and abundance and happiness. GO INDIGI!!!
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Posted by: fanny666 on Apr 10, 2007 8:47 AM
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» RE: How it's gonna end - it's already ended.
Posted by: symcokid
» RE: How it's gonna end
Posted by: peaknik35
» RE: How it's gonna end - I think you have got it right!
Posted by: symcokid
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Posted by: Lincoln fan on Apr 10, 2007 9:09 AM
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With the option of a different economic system out of peoples' minds the desparate now turn to religion. This poses no danger to the corporate establishment and so it's fostered and turned against the liberal ideas that are a threat to the establishment.
It's easy for we on the left ro see that the religious are being manipulated by the establishment. It's not so easy to see that we are also being manipulated by the same establishment. It is hard to believe because we feel superior to the yahoos, the rednecks, and the Nascar crowd. We're too smart to be manipulated. "Pride goeth before the fall".
The evidence is plain to see. It's public record. Click on Open Secrets The same industries fund both of our political parties.
They don't fund both parties because they want both parties to win. They fund both parties so it doesn't make much difference which party wins. And all along we were convinced that we had the power of the vote. We got all panicky when the election was "stolen" but didn't mind when it was bought.
Feel free to discuss your favorite candidate but be sure that he/she is electable. That means that he/she is acceptable to the corporate establishment.
I even forgot the names of the last bunch of unelectable hopefuls. I only remember that one was too short, one was deranged, one was a clown, and another was a black woman who we weren't "ready for". In other words they were not acceptable to the corporatocracy that controls both parties.
We are in a very dangerous situation. The establishment has split the workong class into two groups that disrespect, despise, and fear each other. Fear is the strongest human emotion; the strongest animal instinct. Will we let the corporatocracy stay in power until we are at war with each other?
Bob Reichenbach,
Director, The Lincoln Initiative.
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» RE: The Religious Right is manipulated by corporations.
Posted by: jims713
» RE: The Religious Right is manipulated by corporations.
Posted by: zyxwvut
» RE: The Religious Right is manipulated by corporations.
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» Pocketbook Issues Could Win the Day
Posted by: rjgwood
» RE: Pocketbook Issues Could Win the Day
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: Pocketbook Issues Could Win the Day
Posted by: rjgwood
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Posted by: Gerald on Apr 10, 2007 9:18 AM
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» RE: Mr.
Posted by: albrechtkrausse
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Posted by: WitchyNy on Apr 10, 2007 9:18 AM
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» RE: If God is on our side-
Posted by: brainvib
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Posted by: xbj on Apr 10, 2007 9:24 AM
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Jesus said "LOVE YOUR ENEMIES. BLESS THOSE THAT CURSE YOU."
These pitiful bastards aren't Christians, and woe to them when they realize their god was Lucifer.
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Posted by: brainvib on Apr 10, 2007 10:01 AM
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Why suddenly have we, the english speaking world, allowed this fanatic cult to steal the label "Christian"?
A common question asked by a bac(born again christian) is
"Are you a Christian"? By my definition and that of Webster
and Funk and Wagnall, YES I AM! But by the bac definition I certainly am not. I want my label back!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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» RE: eport a Theft
Posted by: xbj
» RE: eport a Theft
Posted by: Gisele
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Posted by: jessicalh on Apr 10, 2007 10:29 AM
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» read Hedges' book
Posted by: counterpoint
» RE: read Hedges' book
Posted by: jessicalh
» Flint, Michigan
Posted by: rjgwood
» RE: bah, humbug...
Posted by: morticia
» Cognitive dissonance versus doublethink
Posted by: doctorsquared
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Posted by: Knowmad on Apr 10, 2007 10:39 AM
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Wishful thinking perhaps, but what if progressives could take advantage of these circumstances and inflict some serious damage to these sick enterprises, and have those who benefit exposed for the immoral parasites they are to boot.
If the three most dangerous cabals - the religious right, corporate pimps, and their neocon political whores - could be set against one another somehow (maybe a few smart inside operators, telling 'secrets' to each group about about how the others are going to betray them) they just might all go down in a passionate blaze of putrid self-interest. I don't suggest anyone should actually be hurt, just those responsible reaping what they've sown, and their victims given another chance to chose for themselves.
My own little version of the rapture.
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» RE: Opportunity?
Posted by: antu
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Posted by: leedavis546@msn.com on Apr 10, 2007 10:40 AM
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» Which 10 Commandments?
Posted by: counterpoint
» how about just the golden rule
Posted by: liberalibrarian
» don't believe it
Posted by: counterpoint
» Supernatural Being
Posted by: LeftCoastProgressive
» RE: Why Don't Christian's Talk about the 10 Commandments
Posted by: aussidawg
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Posted by: morticia on Apr 10, 2007 10:41 AM
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DEER HUNTING WITH JESUS--Dispatches From America's Class War, by Joe Bageant. You'll learn how and why we're in the mess we're in.
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Posted by: vertical on Apr 10, 2007 11:12 AM
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» RE:ligious Stupid
Posted by: Ellie1
» Religious Automatons
Posted by: LeftCoastProgressive
» RE: eligious Stupid
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: eligious Stupid - no thanks
Posted by: UnEasyOne
» RE: I think it can be done...
Posted by: ShrubtheWarcriminal
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Posted by: peaknik35 on Apr 10, 2007 11:54 AM
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» RE: They'll bring us all down
Posted by: churchofone
» RE: They'll bring us all down
Posted by: Artkansas
» RE: They'll bring us all down
Posted by: antu
» RE: They'll bring us all down
Posted by: aussidawg
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Posted by: Ellie1 on Apr 10, 2007 12:03 PM
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Posted by: weatherking on Apr 10, 2007 12:27 PM
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Posted by: churchofone on Apr 10, 2007 12:41 PM
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I do take exception with the author's description: The paint is flaking off the cramped two-story houses that lie in ugly grid patterns off the highway......The plagues of alcoholism, divorce, drug abuse, poverty and domestic violence make the internal life here as depressing as the external one.
It is not all the gloom-and-doom portrayed. I live in what is considered a blue-collar community, and although there are some neglected and vacant homes, most people take care of their homes. My city simply will not tolerate property neglect!
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Posted by: poppop_schell on Apr 10, 2007 1:11 PM
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That said, some of their warnings are on target at least from a Biblical prospective. As I read this "hit piece", I wondered IF a similar type of piece was written in Noah's day? I wonder when the signs leading up to Jesus's 2nd Coming become more and more fullfilled, whether folks on AlterNet will be like those in Noah's day? The signs were there but ignored.
As Christ decends in His glory, all those living a telestial type of life will be burned up at His coming (see D+C 76 for whose these people are (http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/76), the earth will be transfigured to a terrestrial existence and peace will reign for 1000 years. Fortunately more than 8 people will survive unlike in Noah's day when only eight survived the flood.
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» RE: I WONDER HOW THE PEOPLE IN NOAH'S DAY REACTED TO HIS WARNINGS?
Posted by: counterpoint
» RE: I WONDER HOW THE PEOPLE IN NOAH'S DAY REACTED TO HIS WARNINGS?
Posted by: poppop_schell
» Ruler of the Universes?
Posted by: counterpoint
» RE: uler of the Universes?
Posted by: poppop_schell
» RE: uler of the Universes?
Posted by: thirdmg
» RE: uler of the Universes? Didn't see an attack on Mormons
Posted by: UnEasyOne
» RE: uler of the Universes? Didn't see an attack on Mormons
Posted by: poppop_schell
» Science discards false theories, but demonstrably false religions are untouchable??
Posted by: counterpoint
» RE: Science discards false theories, but demonstrably false religions are untouchable??
Posted by: poppop_schell
» RE: uler of the Universes? Didn't see an attack on Mormons
Posted by: UnEasyOne
» RE: uler of the Universes? Didn't see an attack on Mormons
Posted by: poppop_schell
» RE: uler of the Universes? Didn't see an attack on Mormons
Posted by: UnEasyOne
» RE: uler of the Universes? Didn't see an attack on Mormons
Posted by: poppop_schell
» RE: Hardly. Alternet was messed up - wasn't sure my comment posted at all
Posted by: UnEasyOne
» RE: Hardly. Alternet was messed up - wasn't sure my comment posted at all
Posted by: poppop_schell
» RE: Hardly... already did - you ducked and dodged
Posted by: UnEasyOne
» RE: I WONDER HOW THE PEOPLE IN NOAH'S DAY REACTED TO HIS WARNINGS? - Don't Be Too Sure
Posted by: thirdmg
» RE: I WONDER HOW THE PEOPLE IN NOAH'S DAY REACTED TO HIS WARNINGS? - Don't Be Too Sure
Posted by: poppop_schell
» RE: I WONDER HOW THE PEOPLE IN NOAH'S DAY REACTED TO HIS WARNINGS? - Don't Be Too Sure
Posted by: thirdmg
» RE: I WONDER HOW THE PEOPLE IN NOAH'S DAY REACTED TO HIS WARNINGS?
Posted by: aussidawg
» RE: I WONDER HOW THE PEOPLE IN NOAH'S DAY REACTED TO HIS WARNINGS?
Posted by: poppop_schell
» Change Your Wicked, Wicked Ways!
Posted by: LeftCoastProgressive
» RE: Change Your Wicked, Wicked Ways!
Posted by: poppop_schell
» RE: I WONDER HOW THE PEOPLE IN NOAH'S DAY REACTED TO HIS WARNINGS?
Posted by: catnapping
» RE: I WONDER HOW THE PEOPLE IN NOAH'S DAY REACTED TO HIS WARNINGS?
Posted by: poppop_schell
» Well, since the story is a myth...
Posted by: doctorsquared
» RE: Well, since the story is a myth...
Posted by: poppop_schell
» thanks for educating us about Mormons - may it hurt Romney!
Posted by: counterpoint
» RE: thanks for educating us about Mormons - may it hurt Romney!
Posted by: poppop_schell
» RE: thanks for educating us about Mormons - may it hurt Romney!
Posted by: aussidawg
» RE: thanks for educating us about Mormons - may it hurt Romney!
Posted by: poppop_schell
» RE: thanks for educating us about Mormons - may it hurt Romney!
Posted by: aussidawg
» RE: thanks for educating us about Mormons - may it hurt Romney!
Posted by: poppop_schell
» RE: thanks - research Ron Paul a bit more, aussie
Posted by: UnEasyOne
» RE: thanks - research Ron Paul a bit more, aussie
Posted by: poppop_schell
» RE: thanks - research Ron Paul - You call yourself a progressive?
Posted by: UnEasyOne
» RE: thanks - research Ron Paul - You call yourself a progressive?
Posted by: poppop_schell
» What part was nonsense?
Posted by: doctorsquared
» RE: What part was nonsense?
Posted by: poppop_schell
Comments are closed-
Posted by: beautykilledbeast on Apr 10, 2007 1:11 PM
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I felt this comparison begged one question: why worry over the commonweal when the End Times are imminent and
it's our responsibility to hurry the End along?
Let me tell you, there are many, many Christians I know who I'd like to see crucified, burned at the stake, fed to the lions, and about in that order.
We should do them the favor and bestow their crowns of martyrdom.
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Posted by: Sojourner on Apr 10, 2007 1:30 PM
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I grew up on science fiction. Those who read the New Testament as science fiction are no better and no worse. Except I now see science fiction as a waste of my time. And I see journalism wallowing in the drama of religious science fiction as a similar waste. Be gone, fool.
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Posted by: amiabledave on Apr 10, 2007 1:34 PM
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Although all poor, illiterate, and oppressed people who -- through no fault of their own -- live under conditions of war, privation, and authoritarian rule are subject to fundamentalism and suiciidal tendencies, it does not subtract their humanity.
"Persecution makes proselytes." – Voltaire
How must it look to the world when rag-tag freedom fighters stand atop piles of rubble facing jets, tanks, AND GPS-guided rockets -- the most sophisticated, best-equipped military on the planet -- and are victorious? How can we consider ourselves brave and moral when we go after countries whose suffering peoples lack even the convience of an electric toaster?
We have this history of supporting tyranny whenever it serves our purposes, having recently armed Iraq, Iran, and the Taliban in Afghanistan. We have supported Israel's takeover of Arab land, after denying victims of the Holocaust a refuge in America?
Is there ever a point when Americans cannot forgive themselves for cowardly, self-serving actions?
Is it wise to trade democracy and morality for empire? How can we be happy attacking not an army, but the strategy of religious extremists who have only their chains to lose?
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» RE: our historical treatment of Middle-Eastern peoples
Posted by: antu
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Posted by: whyoung on Apr 10, 2007 1:48 PM
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Luke 19:27 is but one example of his radical nature, there are plenty more.
There are many heroic characters in literature with greater words of wisdom than Jesus the Christ.
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» RE: What book has everyone been reading?
Posted by: staringatthesun
» RE: What book has everyone been reading?
Posted by: counterpoint
» RE: What book has everyone been reading?
Posted by: antu
Comments are closed-
Posted by: LeaderofMen on Apr 10, 2007 1:55 PM
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Christians who 'interpret' the Bible rather than believe in it wholeheartedly are as irrelevant as dew evaporating before the morning sun.
People who interpret the Bible to fit it into a milder form, fit for actual human consumption, are bastardizing what religion is all about. Religion is by its very nature an US vs. THEM proposition. It is DESIGNED to cleave, to make YOU and YOURS better than THOSE OTHERS. That is the point and purpose of religion. It is that way to this very moment in time. You know it and I know it.
All of you Christians who are trying to prove a point by making your religion 'palatable' for the rest of us are playing a game called mental masturbation. Religion has never been designed, invented, cultivated or cultured for mass inclusion. It's purpose is NOT to provide comfort for the masses. You only say it is. Saying doesn't make it so. It just means you SAID it. Religion has always spread thru rape, lies and plunder (read your Bible if you don't believe that) - thru the use of the sword, edicts, bulls, pronouncements, pogroms, and convert or die schemes. It has always and forever will be used to take your money, gain control over your mind, your heart, your family, your relationships, your state, your school boards, your countries, etc. It is a power game. It is a Ponzi scheme. It is a tool for political purposes. Look at what's going on just in the Justice Dept. of he US to see the latter in vital, dynamic action in real time.
The present state, condition, and example that is US culture today proves this point like no other can in modern history. You will witness the demise of 'mild' Christianity because it can't withstand the onslaught of tens of millions of dollars that are used to present FEAR as the basis for its perpetuation. It, being fundamentalist Christianity.
Christianity can't and has never explained the meaning of life, the purpose of pain, provided an explanation for evil, nor can it manifest a soul, an angel or its god. It can ONLY present false dichotomies, call you a sinner and wage war. You are seeing it happen in front of your very eyes in America. That is true Christianity in this nation. That is Christianity in history.
If your god is so powerful, so omniscient, and so incredibly insightful you MUST explain why it/he/she is allowing Christian fundamentalists so much power and control. It will ultimately be used for total and complete evil. As it always has and as it always will.
You can't explain this bizarre god of yours because your god is not there. YOUR GOD IS NOT THERE. The only thing that is there is fear in people's hearts, extremely low education of Christianity's adherents, the inability to understand the difference between right and wrong - due to drug abuse, alcoholism, and external loci of control for the vast majority of 'believers'. Oh, and the willingness to believe leaders who say they know better than you - all because you are LAZY beyond words to describe.
Nothing can stop the masses of totally ignorant Christians from gaining the power they so desperately need. They want it badly because the further they delve into this cult of hate, the emptier and emptier they become. They ultimately experience a near perfect vacuum of emotional instability and lash out at others. They project their emptiness on the rest of us. They get sucked in. It's like explosive decompression out an airlock into the void of space. They find themselves there and desperately attempt to fill that empty hole by following the edicts of their fear: make them believe, tell them they're sinners, lash out at those who KNOW beyond a shadow of a doubt that there is NO god.
Christians have no soul but wish they did. You and I will suffer because of them.
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» Situation Seems Hopeless
Posted by: rjgwood
» RE: It's Irrelevant
Posted by: djnoll
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Posted by: VZEQICVA on Apr 10, 2007 2:49 PM
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Posted by: antu on Apr 10, 2007 4:22 PM
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This is the sad thing about our world, and it has been going on for as long as humans have inhabited this planet.
I can only think of a few. Jesus, (wouldn't it have been something if Jesus were able to get the jews to allow those who really needed the healing baths of the temple to come in and bathe?, OK for health's' sake then have separate facilities, but still I don't see how his time on earth changed much of anything sad to say, like Jefferson said, he was killed to soon to make the impact that might have been possible for a renewed humanitarian world) Gandhi, Martin Luther, John Lennon, Pope Paul II was shot. (I won't put Reagan in there for obvious reasons).
I was born with this sensitive spirit that rejects war greed poverty sweatshops, malls, monsanto, the perrrfect 60's hippy. This is why I relate so much to Christ, and Jefferson, and these other martyrs... This tendancy is so strong in me that if I were born a wealthy elite I'd have the family's billions to work with to make some sort of change in economic structure, to the point of at least having a commune, but I'd probably get kicked out of the family.
And those who actually do the work are not the ones who are rewarded. Have you ever heard the line I built this house? When it takes at least 10 people to do so?
Alas I'm just a 3rd generation mason laborer, trying to get a respectable wage from the coffers of greedy home owners, who are too cheap to buy real rock and insist on fake rock to make the appearance of expensive solid foundation or fireplace...
Wannabes... most upper-middle class Idahoans are cheap elitist- aristocrat -wannabes who waste their money on inefficiency and fake (you name it),...They come to Idaho to exploit cheap labor and cannot fathom voting for a higher minimum wage. They are a big part of the liberal attack mechanism. I cannot get any more money out of them than I did in the 70's. I do the creative masonry labor they play the stock market and bitch at those who would labor all day everyday for pittance and blame them for their plight. Is playing in the stock market the same as making an honest living working?
They are for the most part FOX attack news worshipers who play in the Christian right for their secure status.
And believe me they have killed and will kill to keep it this way.
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Posted by: tommy_slothrop on Apr 10, 2007 4:40 PM
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These people are spreading their sickness throughout the entire world!
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» RE: They're not just here!
Posted by: counterpoint
» RE: They're not just here!
Posted by: IndyElliott
» RE: They're not just here!
Posted by: counterpoint
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Posted by: willymack on Apr 10, 2007 4:57 PM
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» RE: dogma is in the eye of the beholder
Posted by: solrev
» RE: dogma is in the eye of the beholder
Posted by: particle
» RE: dogma is in the eye of the beholder
Posted by: solrev
» RE: dogma is in the eye of the beholder
Posted by: counterpoint
» And so it goes...
Posted by: aussidawg
» RE: dogma is in the eye of the beholder - Not Always
Posted by: thirdmg
» RE: dogma is in the eye of the beholder - Not Always
Posted by: counterpoint
» RE: dogma is in the eye of the beholder - Not Always
Posted by: counterpoint
» RE: dogma is in the eye of the beholder - Not Always
Posted by: counterpoint
» RE: Eighty/twenty
Posted by: antu
» RE: ighty/twenty
Posted by: counterpoint
» RE: ighty/twenty
Posted by: willymack
» wow, fascinating, and explains alot. . .
Posted by: Beck
» RE: Pareto's Law
Posted by: LeaderofMen
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Posted by: righteousbabe on Apr 10, 2007 5:27 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If one truly believes in God's judgement, well then for (St.) Pete's sake, git outta da way and let him do his job and you be doin' your job (being good and not killin' and stuff). What confounds me is that people just don't actually TRUST the God they worship to render judgement. It's like ascribing responsibility to someone, then just pushing them aside and doing it yourself. If one has faith in God as the Almighty, well then, he/she/it can take care of it just fine, thank you.
So, please! All of you kooky zealots out there reading this, please don't clease the world of sinners and kill in his name unless he asks you to. I guess that's the problem right there: they are actually under the belief that God is OUT-SOURCING JUDGEMENT. Wow!
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» Prophecy = God is 'outsourcing' judgment? It's getting in everywhere these days.
Posted by: Sojourner
» Excellent!
Posted by: Beck
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Posted by: Jersey Devil on Apr 10, 2007 6:00 PM
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Posted by: YogiBear on Apr 10, 2007 6:20 PM
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» RE: Ignoramousness is bliss
Posted by: morticia
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Posted by: Intransit on Apr 10, 2007 6:53 PM
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Posted by: liberalibrarian on Apr 10, 2007 7:23 PM
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Joseph Campbell called Buddhism, Taoism and Hinduism the Perennial faiths because of their (comparative) tolerance for different thinking, and their ability to distinguish humankind's quest for spirituality with historical occurances. I'll take the later any day.
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Posted by: solrev on Apr 10, 2007 7:29 PM
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the literature, find a prophet who speaks the truth to you and be that voice. The alternative is you can just stand by and be a voice crying in the wilderness and watch what we do. Use your rational mind and predict the future who knows the prophet that saves the planet may be among you. Look at the numbers it is to late to start over.
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» RE: time is relative
Posted by: antu
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Posted by: Mojoe on Apr 10, 2007 7:46 PM
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» Sounds like just another 'religion' to me...
Posted by: Sojourner
» RE: Kill all the religious people. They are obviously unintelligent and they cause all the wars.
Posted by: counterpoint
» RE: Kill all the religious people. They are obviously unintelligent and they cause all the wars.
Posted by: solrev
» RE: Kill all the religious people. They are obviously unintelligent and they cause all the wars.
Posted by: LeftCoastProgressive
Comments are closed-
Posted by: common intelligence on Apr 10, 2007 10:07 PM
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Followers, believers, the delusionary... everyone seems to be looking out side their own hearts for GOD.
Each one of you is a direct desendant, the literal blood of God. Yet most all "feel'" alienated from God as if "He" is somewhere else or "not" in your presents.
Suicidal bombers to a suicidal society here in the USA you all deny God and ask out side your selves for the
"Answer".
If anyone thinks God cares or doesn't, it's only yo whom does or doesn't. If you want the "end" you have but to end it. It will be done! You of little faith, look in the mirror of your heart. Listen not to the whiners and debaters of JC or GW! JC already died. So you have free choice to be as God or separate. What'll it be?
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» RE: funny quote
Posted by: solrev
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Posted by: wisegalah on Apr 11, 2007 5:45 AM
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They are all exactly the same type of people with the same problem.
Fundamentally they are cowards, too afraid to ask what the real situation may be. They want to blame anyone else for their pain and difficulty and will punish those whom they imagine to be in any way responsible for their condition. In their pain, confusion and silliness they follow anyone who claims to have an answer. Many even follow someone as stupid as plainly dishonest as that little shit of an American president.
I do have some time for those who live out the twisted logic of their lives at some risk to themselves.
I reserve my deepest contempt and loathing for the priests, rabbis, mullahs and politicians who foster the differences, encourage violence, always of course from a safe place, and then profit from their lies and their cynical use of those disposable, easily-lead others.
Wisegalah in Sydney.
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Posted by: poppop_schell on Apr 11, 2007 7:36 AM
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» RE: I AM CURIOUS??? ARE THERE ANY PEOPLE OF FAITH ON ALTERNET? - Yep, But You're Not One Of Them
Posted by: thirdmg
» ARE THERE ANY PEOPLE OF FAITH ON ALTERNET?
Posted by: LeftCoastProgressive
» RE: ARE THERE ANY .... liberal redneck
Posted by: OhioPatriot
» RE: ARE THERE ANY .... liberal redneck
Posted by: poppop_schell
» RE: ARE THERE ANY .... liberal redneck.leftcoast progressive
Posted by: OhioPatriot
» RE: ARE THERE ANY .... liberal redneck.leftcoast progressive
Posted by: poppop_schell
» RE: I AM CURIOUS??? ARE THERE ANY PEOPLE OF FAITH ON ALTERNET?
Posted by: The Big Raven
» RE: I AM CURIOUS??? ARE THERE ANY PEOPLE OF FAITH ON ALTERNET?
Posted by: poppop_schell
» RE: I AM CURIOUS??? ARE THERE ANY PEOPLE OF FAITH ON ALTERNET?
Posted by: morticia
» RE: I AM CURIOUS??? ARE THERE ANY PEOPLE OF FAITH ON ALTERNET?
Posted by: poppop_schell
» RE: I AM CURIOUS??? ARE THERE ANY PEOPLE OF FAITH ON ALTERNET?
Posted by: morticia
» RE: I AM CURIOUS??? ARE THERE ANY PEOPLE OF FAITH ON ALTERNET?
Posted by: poppop_schell
» RE: I AM CURIOUS??? ARE THERE ANY PEOPLE OF FAITH ON ALTERNET?
Posted by: morticia
» RE: I AM CURIOUS??? ARE THERE ANY PEOPLE OF FAITH ON ALTERNET?
Posted by: poppop_schell
» Oh, come on. You're not reading.
Posted by: Beck
» RE: Oh, come on. You're not reading.
Posted by: poppop_schell
» RE: I AM CURIOUS??? ARE THERE ANY PEOPLE OF FAITH ON ALTERNET?
Posted by: LeaderofMen
» RE: I AM CURIOUS??? ARE THERE ANY PEOPLE OF FAITH ON ALTERNET?
Posted by: poppop_schell
» RE: I AM CURIOUS??? dear leader of men, do you smoke? do drugs? drink alcohol?
Posted by: OhioPatriot
» self destuctive nature??
Posted by: counterpoint
» RE: self destuctive nature??
Posted by: poppop_schell
» RE: I AM CURIOUS??? dear leader of men, do you smoke? do drugs? drink alcohol?
Posted by: poppop_schell
Comments are closed-
Posted by: The Big Raven on Apr 11, 2007 9:43 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Burn your churches for the resources that they hoard while people starve or worst murdered by your cursading warriors is the REAL SIN.
I have read ALL the major books about the world religions and none ring ANY TRUTH and that is the truth!
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» RE: give me a break
Posted by: djnoll
» RE: give me a break
Posted by: OhioPatriot
» RE: give me a break
Posted by: aussidawg
» RE: give me a break
Posted by: OhioPatriot
» You know, your own posts are full of mistakes
Posted by: Beck
» RE: You know, your own posts are full of mistakes
Posted by: OhioPatriot
Comments are closed-
Posted by: craftne on Apr 11, 2007 11:33 AM
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It saddens me that these fundamental extreme Christian groups talk about how evil the rest of the world is compared to them, and they point fingers and call names and are angry and even violent. It's an "okay to hurt my neighbor" mentality.
These fundamental and judgmental groups are a grave concern, in that scared and traumatised and suffering people can be manipulated into believing things, such as the best will come after death, which absolves them of any responsibility for breaking negative behaviour patterns and habits that lead to problems and misery in this lifetime.
That is very sad, for two reasons. Firstly, these factions do not bring people together, but pull them apart. Splintered, we can not grow and develop as human beings. Secondly, people are not living for right now, working on themselves to find lasting happiness and security IN THIS LIFETIME.
What those two things accomplish is that it creates more suffering, more problems on the planet right now.
To solve problems and suffering, a person must understand his/her own mind and understand others with EQUINIMITY. Only through compassion and understanding can we reach this goal.
And what's very sad is that when these people die, they will die with all their negative habits, all their negative emotions, and they will return to work on them again.
And that's a wasted life. Except for the fact that they taught me how NOT to be.
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