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Chomsky: Preventing War with Iran

By Noam Chomsky, Tomdispatch.com. Posted April 6, 2007.


Stopping a war with Iran requires a strong organized popular opposition.

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Unsurprisingly, George W. Bush's announcement of a "surge" in Iraq came despite the firm opposition to any such move of Americans and the even stronger opposition of the (thoroughly irrelevant) Iraqis. It was accompanied by ominous official leaks and statements -- from Washington and Baghdad -- about how Iranian intervention in Iraq was aimed at disrupting our mission to gain victory, an aim which is (by definition) noble.

What then followed was a solemn debate about whether serial numbers on advanced roadside bombs (IEDs) were really traceable to Iran; and, if so, to that country's Revolutionary Guards or to some even higher authority.

This "debate" is a typical illustration of a primary principle of sophisticated propaganda. In crude and brutal societies, the Party Line is publicly proclaimed and must be obeyed -- or else. What you actually believe is your own business and of far less concern. In societies where the state has lost the capacity to control by force, the Party Line is simply presupposed; then, vigorous debate is encouraged within the limits imposed by unstated doctrinal orthodoxy. The cruder of the two systems leads, naturally enough, to disbelief; the sophisticated variant gives an impression of openness and freedom, and so far more effectively serves to instill the Party Line. It becomes beyond question, beyond thought itself, like the air we breathe.

The debate over Iranian interference in Iraq proceeds without ridicule on the assumption that the United States owns the world. We did not, for example, engage in a similar debate in the 1980s about whether the U.S. was interfering in Soviet-occupied Afghanistan, and I doubt that Pravda, probably recognizing the absurdity of the situation, sank to outrage about that fact (which American officials and our media, in any case, made no effort to conceal). Perhaps the official Nazi press also featured solemn debates about whether the Allies were interfering in sovereign Vichy France, though if so, sane people would then have collapsed in ridicule.

In this case, however, even ridicule -- notably absent -- would not suffice, because the charges against Iran are part of a drumbeat of pronouncements meant to mobilize support for escalation in Iraq and for an attack on Iran, the "source of the problem." The world is aghast at the possibility. Even in neighboring Sunni states, no friends of Iran, majorities, when asked, favor a nuclear-armed Iran over any military action against that country. From what limited information we have, it appears that significant parts of the U.S. military and intelligence communities are opposed to such an attack, along with almost the entire world, even more so than when the Bush administration and Tony Blair's Britain invaded Iraq, defying enormous popular opposition worldwide.

"The Iran effect"

The results of an attack on Iran could be horrendous. After all, according to a recent study of "the Iraq effect" by terrorism specialists Peter Bergen and Paul Cruickshank, using government and Rand Corporation data, the Iraq invasion has already led to a seven-fold increase in terror. The "Iran effect" would probably be far more severe and long-lasting. British military historian Corelli Barnett speaks for many when he warns that "an attack on Iran would effectively launch World War III."

What are the plans of the increasingly desperate clique that narrowly holds political power in the U.S.? We cannot know. Such state planning is, of course, kept secret in the interests of "security." Review of the declassified record reveals that there is considerable merit in that claim -- though only if we understand "security" to mean the security of the Bush administration against their domestic enemy, the population in whose name they act.

Even if the White House clique is not planning war, naval deployments, support for secessionist movements and acts of terror within Iran, and other provocations could easily lead to an accidental war. Congressional resolutions would not provide much of a barrier. They invariably permit "national security" exemptions, opening holes wide enough for the several aircraft-carrier battle groups soon to be in the Persian Gulf to pass through -- as long as an unscrupulous leadership issues proclamations of doom (as Condoleezza Rice did with those "mushroom clouds" over American cities back in 2002). And the concocting of the sorts of incidents that "justify" such attacks is a familiar practice. Even the worst monsters feel the need for such justification and adopt the device: Hitler's defense of innocent Germany from the "wild terror" of the Poles in 1939, after they had rejected his wise and generous proposals for peace, is but one example.

The most effective barrier to a White House decision to launch a war is the kind of organized popular opposition that frightened the political-military leadership enough in 1968 that they were reluctant to send more troops to Vietnam -- fearing, we learned from the Pentagon Papers, that they might need them for civil-disorder control.

Doubtless Iran's government merits harsh condemnation, including for its recent actions that have inflamed the crisis. It is, however, useful to ask how we would act if Iran had invaded and occupied Canada and Mexico and was arresting U.S. government representatives there on the grounds that they were resisting the Iranian occupation (called "liberation," of course). Imagine as well that Iran was deploying massive naval forces in the Caribbean and issuing credible threats to launch a wave of attacks against a vast range of sites -- nuclear and otherwise -- in the United States, if the U.S. government did not immediately terminate all its nuclear energy programs (and, naturally, dismantle all its nuclear weapons). Suppose that all of this happened after Iran had overthrown the government of the U.S. and installed a vicious tyrant (as the US did to Iran in 1953), then later supported a Russian invasion of the U.S. that killed millions of people (just as the U.S. supported Saddam Hussein's invasion of Iran in 1980, killing hundreds of thousands of Iranians, a figure comparable to millions of Americans). Would we watch quietly?

It is easy to understand an observation by one of Israel's leading military historians, Martin van Creveld. After the U.S. invaded Iraq, knowing it to be defenseless, he noted, "Had the Iranians not tried to build nuclear weapons, they would be crazy."

Surely no sane person wants Iran (or any nation) to develop nuclear weapons. A reasonable resolution of the present crisis would permit Iran to develop nuclear energy, in accord with its rights under the Non-Proliferation Treaty, but not nuclear weapons. Is that outcome feasible? It would be, given one condition: that the U.S. and Iran were functioning democratic societies in which public opinion had a significant impact on public policy.

As it happens, this solution has overwhelming support among Iranians and Americans, who generally are in agreement on nuclear issues. The Iranian-American consensus includes the complete elimination of nuclear weapons everywhere (82% of Americans); if that cannot yet be achieved because of elite opposition, then at least a "nuclear-weapons-free zone in the Middle East that would include both Islamic countries and Israel" (71% of Americans). Seventy-five percent of Americans prefer building better relations with Iran to threats of force. In brief, if public opinion were to have a significant influence on state policy in the U.S. and Iran, resolution of the crisis might be at hand, along with much more far-reaching solutions to the global nuclear conundrum.

Promoting democracy -- at home

These facts suggest a possible way to prevent the current crisis from exploding, perhaps even into some version of World War III. That awesome threat might be averted by pursuing a familiar proposal: democracy promotion -- this time at home, where it is badly needed. Democracy promotion at home is certainly feasible and, although we cannot carry out such a project directly in Iran, we could act to improve the prospects of the courageous reformers and oppositionists who are seeking to achieve just that. Among such figures who are, or should be, well-known, would be Saeed Hajjarian, Nobel laureate Shirin Ebadi, and Akbar Ganji, as well as those who, as usual, remain nameless, among them labor activists about whom we hear very little; those who publish the Iranian Workers Bulletin may be a case in point.

We can best improve the prospects for democracy promotion in Iran by sharply reversing state policy here so that it reflects popular opinion. That would entail ceasing to make the regular threats that are a gift to Iranian hardliners. These are bitterly condemned by Iranians truly concerned with democracy promotion (unlike those "supporters" who flaunt democracy slogans in the West and are lauded as grand "idealists" despite their clear record of visceral hatred for democracy).

Democracy promotion in the United States could have far broader consequences. In Iraq, for instance, a firm timetable for withdrawal would be initiated at once, or very soon, in accord with the will of the overwhelming majority of Iraqis and a significant majority of Americans. Federal budget priorities would be virtually reversed. Where spending is rising, as in military supplemental bills to conduct the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, it would sharply decline. Where spending is steady or declining (health, education, job training, the promotion of energy conservation and renewable energy sources, veterans benefits, funding for the UN and UN peacekeeping operations, and so on), it would sharply increase. Bush's tax cuts for people with incomes over $200,000 a year would be immediately rescinded.

The U.S. would have adopted a national health-care system long ago, rejecting the privatized system that sports twice the per-capita costs found in similar societies and some of the worst outcomes in the industrial world. It would have rejected what is widely regarded by those who pay attention as a "fiscal train wreck" in-the-making. The U.S. would have ratified the Kyoto Protocol to reduce carbon-dioxide emissions and undertaken still stronger measures to protect the environment. It would allow the UN to take the lead in international crises, including in Iraq. After all, according to opinion polls, since shortly after the 2003 invasion, a large majority of Americans have wanted the UN to take charge of political transformation, economic reconstruction, and civil order in that land.

If public opinion mattered, the U.S. would accept UN Charter restrictions on the use of force, contrary to a bipartisan consensus that this country, alone, has the right to resort to violence in response to potential threats, real or imagined, including threats to our access to markets and resources. The U.S. (along with others) would abandon the Security Council veto and accept majority opinion even when in opposition to it. The UN would be allowed to regulate arms sales; while the U.S. would cut back on such sales and urge other countries to do so, which would be a major contribution to reducing large-scale violence in the world. Terror would be dealt with through diplomatic and economic measures, not force, in accord with the judgment of most specialists on the topic but again in diametric opposition to present-day policy.

Furthermore, if public opinion influenced policy, the U.S. would have diplomatic relations with Cuba, benefiting the people of both countries (and, incidentally, U.S. agribusiness, energy corporations, and others), instead of standing virtually alone in the world in imposing an embargo (joined only by Israel, the Republic of Palau, and the Marshall Islands). Washington would join the broad international consensus on a two-state settlement of the Israel-Palestine conflict, which (with Israel) it has blocked for 30 years -- with scattered and temporary exceptions -- and which it still blocks in word, and more importantly in deed, despite fraudulent claims of its commitment to diplomacy. The U.S. would also equalize aid to Israel and Palestine, cutting off aid to either party that rejected the international consensus.

Evidence on these matters is reviewed in my book Failed States as well as in The Foreign Policy Disconnect by Benjamin Page (with Marshall Bouton), which also provides extensive evidence that public opinion on foreign (and probably domestic) policy issues tends to be coherent and consistent over long periods. Studies of public opinion have to be regarded with caution, but they are certainly highly suggestive.

Democracy promotion at home, while no panacea, would be a useful step towards helping our own country become a "responsible stakeholder" in the international order (to adopt the term used for adversaries), instead of being an object of fear and dislike throughout much of the world. Apart from being a value in itself, functioning democracy at home holds real promise for dealing constructively with many current problems, international and domestic, including those that literally threaten the survival of our species.

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See more stories tagged with: iran, democratic action

Noam Chomsky is the author of Failed States: The Abuse of Power and the Assault on Democracy (Metropolitan Books), just published in paperback, among many other works.

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The terms of negotiations
Posted by: Temporary on Apr 6, 2007 1:05 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The issue ultimately is about recognizing Iran as an equal player in the middle-east. Without that, you aint getting NOWEHERE!!!

To put this simple;what short of weapons the Iranians have is THERE BUSINESS! The UN is probobly the most corrupet instituion in the world, so what ever is decides has about 0% credibility or influcne at this! You still have a window to talk to them about REAL ISSUES, such as stability in the middle-east, oil prices and so on. These are REAL issues wich you can TALK TO THEM! The Nuclear issue ISN'T If you make that an issue,(as Comski himself suggests HERE,) then you can basicly kiss any talks goodbye! And a "nuclear free" middle-east is also out of the question!

Let my one more time make this clear;if you make Irans nuclear weapons an issue, you can basicly KISS GOODBYE to any furder talks on REALLY IMPORTANT ISSUES nuclear free middle-east isn't going to cut it! If America and it's allies wont give up missile-defence(for example actively planning such systems in the middle-east)and new super sonic firts strike ability under the disguise of THAAD, then you can basicly FORGET IT! You people are absolutely THE LAST here to tak about disarmament! Let my AGAIN make myself clear;nukes are basicly ALL Iran has against you! They are a LIFE INSURANCE! You ask Iran to give those up, then the talks are FINISHED! It's up to you to make decide;if you want REAL PACE, then return to Nuclear policy of the Nixon era and the 1972 ABM treaty! If you want war, then you can throw any diplomatic "peace maneuvers" in Iran, Syria, Asia or what ever, but ultimately, as long as your attitude is what it is, then THATS were were going! To HELL, and most of all, TOGETHER! Either you get this White European Supremacy BULLSHIT and "Pax America" out of your thick skull, or basicly, were ALL going to HELL! The choice is yours, but what ever choice you make, you better make it FAST!!!

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» RE: The terms of negotiations Posted by: Temporary
» RE: The terms of negotiations Posted by: douglashoyt
» Is it just me, or... Posted by: maddy
Imagine...
Posted by: dobermanmacleod on Apr 6, 2007 3:17 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
God bless such an idealistic article. Ironically, the article's truth only shows how far from the mark we are, rather than serving as a realistic prescription for where we could be. In my opinion, our environment will soon be unable to support most humans, with dying oceans, a climate that will make outdoor agriculture impractical, and even a lack of unrefined drinkable water.

I think the problem lies not in our culture, but in our genes. It has only been 200,000 years since our ancesters were rare animals on the plans of Africa. Our jungle genes are simply not ready, and will soon bring mankind back to their numbers 200K ago.

Thank goodness the universe is teeming with life, because soon our earth won't be.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Imagine... Posted by: Temporary
» RE: Imagine... Posted by: MAD
» RE: Imagine... Posted by: ankhet
» YOU ARE WRONG Posted by: Wassermann
» RE: YOU ARE WRONG Posted by: grailsnail
» Not really. Posted by: justaguy
» Extinction nothing to accept Posted by: grailsnail
» Well said Posted by: grailsnail
» Wrong Posted by: grailsnail
Resisting the Drums of War
Posted by: Roy Eidelson on Apr 6, 2007 3:58 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A few additional thoughts. The Bush administration promoted the misguided and destructive war in Iraq by targeting five core concerns that often govern our lives—concerns about vulnerability, injustice, distrust, superiority, and helplessness. Looking ahead, the continued occupation of Iraq—or an attack on Iran—will likely be sold to us in much the same way. I examine these warmongering appeals—and how to counter them—in a new 10-minute YouTube video entitled Resisting the Drums of War available for viewing at www.youtube.com/watch?v=81UKnb5zJbM.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Warmongering Posted by: LeftCoastProgressive
» RE: Warmongering Posted by: peacefullaim
Comments:
Posted by: kepstein7777 on Apr 6, 2007 4:48 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
* I like the comments on “debate.” When we bomb Iran, what color should the bombs be? Pink or purple? Discuss....

* I think Chomsky tends to overestimate public opinion, and assume that the Regime just fell out of the sky and started giving orders without any popular mandate. It seems like he tends to take his own opinions and wishful thinking and projects them onto the masses.

* And on the subject of popular opinion, what if it went back to what it was @2001-2003, when 70-90% of Americans wanted to bomb everything, including their grandma's cottage and cages full of newborn puppies? Why such a high regard for public opinion, rather than what's the right thing to do?

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» RE: Are You Jewish? Posted by: ZPaul
» RE: Are You Jewish? Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Are You Jewish? Posted by: grailsnail
» RE: Are You Jewish? Posted by: HeroesAll
» You are an idiot! Posted by: Darrell Kern
» RE: You are an idiot! Posted by: deltadancer
Noam Chomsky and the Pro-Israel Lobby
Posted by: rwa on Apr 6, 2007 5:16 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
James Petras:

Despite his respected reputation for documenting, dissecting and exposing the hypocrisy of the US and European regimes and acutely analyzing the intellectual deceptions of imperial apologists, these analytical virtues are totally absent when it comes to discussing the formulation of US foreign policy in the Middle East, particularly the role of his own ethnic group, the Jewish Pro-Israel lobby and their Zionist supporters in the government. This political blindness is not unknown or uncommon. History is replete of intellectual critics of all imperialisms except their own, the abuses of power by others, but not of one’s own kin and kind. Chomsky’s long history denying the power and role of the pro-Israel lobby in decisively shaping US Middle East policy culminated in his recent conjoining with the US Zionist propaganda machine attacking a study critical of the Israeli lobby.

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» Try reading his books, rwa Posted by: fanny666
» RWA Racism Unleashed Posted by: LeftCoastProgressive
» RE: WA Racism Unleashed Posted by: EncinoM
Chomsky Explains His Weak Spine Regarding 9/11
Posted by: JMorse on Apr 6, 2007 5:31 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"In crude and brutal societies, the Party Line is publicly proclaimed and must be obeyed -- or else. What you actually believe is your own business and of far less concern. In societies where the state has lost the capacity to control by force, the Party Line is simply presupposed; then, vigorous debate is encouraged within the limits imposed by unstated doctrinal orthodoxy."

Noam Chomsky

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» Dover23..A REALLY BRAVE PATRIOT! Posted by: LeftCoastProgressive
» Put Another Way.... Posted by: CatDad
» ok ShadowDweller... Posted by: Iconoclast421
» RE: ok ShadowDweller... Posted by: ShadowDweller
follow the leader
Posted by: robmikejas on Apr 6, 2007 6:15 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
George W. Bush and his war criminal supporters have taken us to the brink of WW3 and are in the position now to engulf the entire world in war and confraglation and destruction. I agree that Iran needs to develop nukes to counter the American threat against their soverenty. If I were an Iranian, I'd be scared shitless every day at the predatory actions of Bush and his personal war making machine as well as Israel and it's nuclear power.

As an American citizen I worry everyday about our damaged and tormented image as it stands in the world today,as well as our inability to speak to the world of peace with any meaning at all. Bush sees it all as a challenge to his masculinity and therefor his natural role as a rich boy bully and cowboy conquerer of the weak. The American Empire is on the march and we the people are reduced to being the victims of an invisible coup with a demented leadership speaking in our names to the world. With even an ounce of humility and tolerance, this juggernaught of death and destruction could be brought under control, but Bush and his followers seek not peace in the world, but rather the "Rapture" and the inherent death required to bring about their goal. If we the people do not rise up soon in absolute condemnation of the Bush death march, we will see our legacy be one of a hated and defeated people and an experiment in democracy gone wrong...and a world unfit for any human progress.

Demand Impeachment now...Make Pelosi put the option back on the table and act upon it now. Send the warmongers out of the sphere of influence and into prison where they belong.

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» K(x3?)best Posted by: Knowmad
» Godwin's Law violation!!!!!!!! Posted by: justaguy
bigtime
Posted by: pnut on Apr 6, 2007 6:46 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Mr. Bush is going to start a war if we the people do not stop him. I know not how to do this, but impeach him is the best I can think of. Ms Nancy needs to be impeached who gave her the right to not impeach Mr. Bush? As I see it he must be impeached he has broken the law many times that have ment the lifes of +3000 good Americans and +600000 good Iraq people, so he must be put in prison. No one can parden him he must be impeached and now not later, we as Americans must do it if Ms. Nancy will not.( Bill Bigtime )Davidson

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IMPEACH!! IMPEACH!!
Posted by: Sweeet Pea on Apr 6, 2007 6:50 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How on earth Chomsky wrote this article without ONCE using the word "impeachment" is beyond me. I feel like I'm in the twilight zone. Every American should be standing up and demanding Bush's HEAD ON A PLATTER.

THAT IS THE ONLY WAY TO PREVENT WAR WITH IRAN!!!

www.a28.org - SPELL IT OUT!!!

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» Missing the point Posted by: ShadowDweller
» 100% Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: IMPEACH!! IMPEACH!! Posted by: CatDad
» other insurance Posted by: MartianBachelor
» RE: other insurance Posted by: Lincoln fan
» call congress 202-224-3121 Posted by: fanny666
» RE: call congress 202-224-3121 Posted by: LeftCoastProgressive
» RE: call congress 202-224-3121 Posted by: peacefullaim
» RE: call congress 202-224-3121 Posted by: fanny666
» RE: IMPEACH!! IMPEACH!! Posted by: Darrell Kern
keep it simple, chomsky
Posted by: edith on Apr 6, 2007 7:22 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
chomsky gives in the first part of his article clear, logical reasons why intervention against Iran is self-defeating, strategically wrong and not in any possible real interests of the middle east region or of the people of United States.

However, then he proceeds to concoct a shopping list of American federal spending programs other than defense, which, if adopted, would incredibly make Iran a more democratic or humane society. This alleged connection between US spending priorities and the behavior of Iranian clerical fascists is absurd.

Of course Iran should not be attacked for reasons Chomsky and others on this thread have declared. But the nutballs who run Iran could care less whether the federal govt or the states provide health insurance to 50 million uninsured Americans or whether federal aid to ranchers qualifies as energy conservation, agriculture promotion or just plain pork.

It is always interesting to observe how a great intellect like Chomsky cannot conceive of any positive programs for human welfare that are not in the firm control of the dead bureaucracy that molders in Washington DC. IF it's federal it must be "for" the people, eh, prof?

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» RE: keep it simple, chomsky Posted by: HeroesAll
» RE: keep it simple, chomsky Posted by: LeftCoastProgressive
» RE: keep it simple, chomsky Posted by: xgroverx
Moral Cowards
Posted by: shangrilalad on Apr 6, 2007 7:29 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The United States is a country ruled by morons and sociopaths.

In election after election, morons vote for underhanded, lying sociopaths who use greed, fear and hate-mongering to cater to the basest instincts of the people, which is made possible by a media owned and operated by sociopaths who inundate us with lies and propaganda 24/7.

In spite of that, we are not a nation of dupes. A majority of Americans are not fooled, instead we are a nation of Moral Cowards afraid to question authority. Rather than taking to the streets and demanding a restoration of democracy, we hunker down like beaten dogs terrified of our masters. A response that has never, and will never work against tyrants.

Bush and his fascistic regime grow bolder by the day. Let’s pray for salvation and hope that God answers our prayers quicker than He did the prayers of the Jews in Nazi Germany.

.

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» RE: Moral Cowards Posted by: maldissent
» RE: Moral Cowards Posted by: veive
» RE: Moral Cowards Posted by: Darrell Kern
the american way of life is non-negotiable
Posted by: astralman on Apr 6, 2007 7:46 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
says dick cheney, hey if you want to keep up your fetish for cars and cheap products from China and cushy suburban lifestyle then support this war, because once again this about oil people. without access to cheap oil and fuels our country is going to change big time, see the article written by kunstler a few days ago...

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DE-PROGRAM America
Posted by: metamind on Apr 6, 2007 8:02 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
References:
http://eidelsonconsulting.com/blog/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81UKnb5zJbM
http://nodes.org

This is a thought-provoking article wherein Mr. Chomsky advocates "democracy promotion" here in the United States. While that sounds like a good solution, we need to address the vast amounts of propaganda, programming and dis-information being fed to the people.

If we don't have good information and good mental programming ( virtues ) then we won't make good decisions. Let's recall how the majority of Americans supported the illegal invasion and occupation of Iraq before we lost. Now many of the same Americans who supported the Iraq war have changed their minds. But it's too late to "re-do" history. We must now live with our UNwise decision.

Democracy by itself is not a complete solution. We need wisdom, virtue and more checks on the use of military power to "solve problems." We need to DE-MILITARIZE Americans' minds. We have bad mental programming. We need to DE-PROGRAM AMERICA!

Watch the YouTube video

"Resisting the Drums of War"

for a deeper understanding of how we have been manipulated by appealing to five instinctual mental reactions to perceived threats:

Vulnerability, Injustice, Distrust, Superiority and Helplessness

We need to work on ourselves. We need to practice "tough love" with our neighbors, friends and family. We need to correct our own thinking and "get right with God" (righteousness ).

It's all US. We are the problem. We are the solution. We need to change our mind.

Democracy promotion is a good idea ... in conjunction with DE-PROGRAMMING MILITARISM and RE-PROGRAMMING CORRECT MENTAL ATTITUDES and an accurate understanding of the world we share.

Wisdom discernment is more important than democracy. What is the WISE course of action? HOW do we know it is wise? WHY is it wise?

Taking a vote from uninformed, poorly programmed people is UNWISE in my opinion.
First things first. Let's get the right programming and accurate information before we take
a vote on the wise course of action.

Patience is a virtue. Trutfulness is a virtue. Compassion is a virtue.

Let's start with these programs.

Blessings!

Steve Moyer
http://nodes.org

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--WARNING-- Chomsky Carries Water For The Status Quo --WARNING--
Posted by: JMorse on Apr 6, 2007 8:09 AM   
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… A few of the left-wing organizations are primarily concerned about threats to media independence, yet all their attention is focused on for-profit corporate (or government control); they ignore the possible influence of large subventions from nonprofit institutions such as foundations, says [Bob] Feldman. Journalist Ron Curran maintains that: “The only money nonprofits can get these days is from private foundations –and those foundations want to control the political agenda.” [‘Buying into the News’ San Francisco Bay Guardian, 10/8/97] Another critic of the grant system, Brian Salter makes a strong case against foundation funding of left media and think tanks. After examining the corporate and political connections of Ford and similar foundation’ board members, Salter concludes: “The big establishment foundations are likely to seek out ‘alternative’ media that is more bark than bite, which they can rely on to ignore and dismiss sensitive topics… as ‘irrational distraction’ or ‘conspiracy theory.’

Salter points out that recipients of funding protest that they are not swayed by any conflicts of interest and don’t allow the sources of funding to affect their decision, “but whether these claims are actually true is already somewhat of a red herring. Judging by the journalism being offered (and not offered) by The Nation, FAIR, The Progressive, IPA, Mother Jones, Alternet.org, and other recipients of their funding, the big establishment foundations are successfully sponsoring the kind of ‘opposition’ that the US ruling elite can tolerate and live with.” [citation]

A study of Chomsky’s stands on particularly dreadful actions such as JFK’s assassination and 9/11, and the roles fo the CIA and FBI, shows Chomsky to be a defacto defender of the status quo’s most egregious outrages and their covert agency engines.

From:
Towers of Deception, Barrie Zwicker, pp. 222 – 224

“There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is a proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep [one] in everlasting ignorance –that principle is contempt prior to investigation.” Herbert Spencer

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» JMorse - Posted by: LeftWright
» Distraction? Posted by: xgroverx
Thanx again for the commentary Noam Chomsky
Posted by: Ghoulman on Apr 6, 2007 8:21 AM   
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... you're the shabazz baby!

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MP3 Chomsky Lectures
Posted by: fanny666 on Apr 6, 2007 8:54 AM   
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Radio4All.net

Also many others, search for whatever you're interested in.

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ARTICLE WAY TOOOO LONG!
Posted by: Astro on Apr 6, 2007 9:00 AM   
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Chomsky has to learn how to get to the point. As valuable as whatever he said might be, it was way to long. He might as well hand somebody a paper to read and then pull the shades and turn off the lights. In a few sentences, somebody tell me what he said!

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» Oh my god that is sad. Posted by: fanny666
» RE: ARTICLE WAY TOOOO LONG! Posted by: peacefullaim
The inmates are running the asylum
Posted by: willymack on Apr 6, 2007 8:59 AM   
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Fresh from their stunning victories in Iraq and Afghanistan, the bush war machine is busily dusting off and slightly modifying the lies that got us into Iraq. WMD, of course, is a mandatory subject, and in the case of Iran,there is actually a viable nuclear program there.That our best intelligence and that of other nations clearly state that Iran is nowhere near ready to manufacture a nuclear device-or that it even intends to, means nothing to the chickenhawks in Washington. We can't be confusing them with facts since their minds are made up, now, can we?Peace overtures from Iran over the last several years get short shrift from the bush controlled press, or no mention at all. Some of the munitions used against our troops as well as innocent civilians in Iraq are said to have been made in Iran. Of course, no definitive proof of this is available. The word of the "administration" must be taken at face value. Oh, well; they've never lied to us before, right? The fact is that munitions can-and have been traced to China, Russia,France, the USA, and several other countries. Maybe we should attack China and Russia next. Of course, since our troop strength is practically non-existent, thanks to the bush regime's genius, we'd have to resort to bombing Teheran and other cicies to rubble. There's even talk of using nuclear "bunker-busting" bombs to pulverize deeply-buried facilities. Not to worry though; we'll use Smart Bombs, which can distinguish between military targets and innocent civilians-just as they have in Iraq and Afghanistan. What little radiation that's produced by the nuclear devices should dissipate in a few thousand years, so no problem there, either. It seems the inmates are running the asylum, folks, and as a long ago Molly once said: "Tain't funny Magee".

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BUSH & IRAN...MY FEAR
Posted by: Astro on Apr 6, 2007 9:18 AM   
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As things stand, Bush will leave office with the Iraq defeat his primary legacy. To avoid that, I SERIOUSLY FEAR he could attack Iran's atomic facilities. Despite the decade of worldwide mayhem which would follow, he could then leave office self-righteously believing he saved the world--especially the Israel part of it--from Iranian nukes. I don't want to see Iran (or any country, for that matter) in possession of nukes. However, attacking Iran's atomic facilities would be a terrible way to deal with the problem, especially for all the wrong reasons.

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i can't believe anyone believes the US would attack iran
Posted by: andrewstromotich on Apr 6, 2007 9:47 AM   
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i still think this is all smoke and mirrors, although hitler was stupid enough to attack russia...

the us would get it's ass kicked if it tried iran, everyone outside of the us knows this, which is why most of the world ain't that worried...

the wildcard is that bush is a nutter, but fact of the matter is, the us would take massive casualties much as idf did in lebanon. this would more than likely lead to a destruction of the us military similar to what happened in russia post afghanistan. i don't think the military industrial complex would go for that.

iran it too powerful and too connected to be hit. this would force both russia and china out of it's slumber, which in some ways would be great for the military industrial complex in the us (a new cold war), but fact is it could lead to revolution in us and widespread revolt in the us military (they ain't used to taking 10k casualties in a week)...

naw, it's just a great way to redirect the antiwar folks energies...

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» blitz style attack of iran would mean... Posted by: andrewstromotich
» just a thought Posted by: tom@nderson13
» RE: just a thought Posted by: andrewstromotich
» RE: just a thought Posted by: tom@nderson13
» i hear ya, but... Posted by: andrewstromotich
» RE: i hear ya, but... Posted by: tom@nderson13
» i agree Posted by: andrewstromotich
» RE: i agree Posted by: tom@nderson13
911 Truth is the key.
Posted by: sonex on Apr 6, 2007 10:21 AM   
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Funny that Noam Chomsky wants democracy to be promoted at home... how about free speech ?

Even if a third of Americans believe that this administration was directly involved or 80% believe this administration is lying about 911, you won't find a word about it in the mainstream media. It doesn't seem to matter how much evidence is given or who comes forward.

The reason for this censorship is quite simple, 911 is being used for the justification for every actions they undertake, from the wars to the reductions of our rights and freedoms, 911 Truth could stop these criminals in their tracks and bring this whole corrupt power structure down, a frightening thought for Noam Chomsky and many others it seems...

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» RE: 911 Truth is the key. Posted by: MartianBachelor
» RE: 911 Truth is the key. Posted by: fanny666
Chomsky: Preventing War with
Posted by: pfm on Apr 6, 2007 10:36 AM   
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If “we” – that’s you and me – are frankly stupid or too timid to stand up and as loudly as necessary proclaim for our President and his minions as well as our Congress and Senate that any “war” with any country is patently stupid, then “we” most assuredly deserve the consequences of our actions or lack thereof.

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NOAM OF THE WHOPPER
Posted by: Roverton on Apr 6, 2007 11:01 AM   
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Noam, Noam
Defending your home.
Democracy-Hypocracy
In the ruins of Rome.

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I just wish they'd hurry up and get it over with
Posted by: xbj on Apr 6, 2007 12:03 PM   
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The sooner they try to nuke Iran, the sooner Nazi Amerika, and not Israel, will be wiped off the face of the map.

A case of far too little, done far too late will let a small handful of desperate greedy psychopaths push the final suicide button.

Imagine the surprise and irony as Bush and Cheney turn out to be the greatest suicide bombers of all time.

A peculiar kind of justice in that...

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Ok, I'll bite
Posted by: MartianBachelor on Apr 6, 2007 12:26 PM   
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> Surely no sane person wants Iran (or any nation)
> to develop nuclear weapons.

I consider myself sane (not all would necessarily agree) and I'd have no problem with Iran having nukes. We survived the USSR having tens of thousands of nukes for about three decades, so I don't know what the big deal would be if Iran had several or a few dozen. It could plausibly stabilize the situation by making Iran more equal in terms of military power. perhaps making us think at least twice about doing anything rash. Think of it terms of a Second Amendment for countries: "the right of the people[nations] to keep and bear arms[nukes]." The only two stable and equal configurations are either everyone has nukes or no one has them. I don't think we're going to do away with our own nukes anytime soon. We could even give Iran some of our own nukes to hasten the move to a more stable situation. -not gonna happen, but it does make some sense.

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» RE: Ok, I'll bite Posted by: fanny666
» RE: Ok, I'll bite Posted by: fanny666
Afghanistan, Iraq and Iran and then who will be next...
Posted by: mistery509 on Apr 6, 2007 12:38 PM   
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Let us compare these wars to a cancer.

When skin cancer is discovered it is taken out. (troops in Iraq)

The chemical that is causing the cancer is removed and distroyed. (Bush and cronies)

The Insurgents will have no one to fight with. They will go to their homes and families. The cancer will start to heal.

Bush can be sent to an island far away where he can sip on martinies and play with his toy soldiers.

Cheney can be put on a huge ranch where he can shoot to his heart's content.

Get a blond girl friend for Ricey and let her travel. As long as she stays away from USA.

Rumsfeld is already in his gopher hole somewhere, where he belongs.

Is this a dream or reality?

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THE REAL SOLUTION
Posted by: jende on Apr 6, 2007 1:10 PM   
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Want justice? Boycott. Deny yourself and the marketeers that promote and profit from war and other acts of human destruction. Not voting, not marching, not writing, certainly not acting violently, but boycotting is the only real way to end these horrors.

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» RE: THE REAL SOLUTION Posted by: bambic
War with Iran now is preferable to war with Iran later, however...
Posted by: ateo on Apr 6, 2007 1:24 PM   
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I don't think it will happen any time soon regardless.

A nuclear armed nation is an immovable object regionally. Iran with nukes will make all its talk of "wiping Israel and America off the map in a holy fire" seem much more realistic. Right now we can do something about Iran and all of its constant threats to the existence of the United States by its leaders. Let them get nukes and we'll be powerless to do anything to them and maybe one day they'll make good on their threats to destroy America and Israel and make an attempt.

Well, that is the scenario that will play out because the U.S. lacks the political will, not to mention the military strength, to take on Iran in a meaningful manner. With the facts as they stand today America cannot make war on Iran in a way that will result in a net positive for the U.S. All we can expect is a negative outcome. Therefore, the war will not happen and we will get to live the remainder of our days with a nuclear armed Iran constantly threatening to destroy us.

Sounds like fun.

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» No, they haven't. Posted by: justaguy
The point I got from Chomsky is that our political leadership ignores the popular will.
Posted by: Sojourner on Apr 6, 2007 1:29 PM   
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The examples he gives seem clear to me to indicate how democracy is not working in the US.

What I wonder now is whether it has always been that way and I just never noticed before? Or whether politicans have more recently become the lapdogs of monied interests that do not represent what the people want?

Anybody remember the Clinton impeachment? An overwhelming majority of Americans said, "Forget it." Instead the Rethugs had to drag us all through the drama. Looking back, does anyone think it was worth it?

More recently, contrary to a post upthread asserting that Americans wanted to nuke the whole world in 2001-02, our city streets were loaded, overloaded, with protests against the invasion of Iraq. That inspite of what now can be seen as a pattern of outrageous lies the Bush people told in order to convince the decision-makers that the invasion was necessary--even though it violates the Nuremberg decisions and marks the first time in American history that we have invaded a country that did not attack us.

OK. Teddy Roosevelt's invasion of Cuba and LBJ's of Vietnam were also based on lies. And the US invasion of Hawaii? Opps. Maybe Iraq wasn't the first time. Maybe the US has been a
colonizing power for quite some time now. So, is that what the American people want?

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What Noam would rather deny:
Posted by: rwa on Apr 6, 2007 5:48 PM   
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AIPAC is undeniably the most powerful single-issue lobbying group in Washington. At its just concluded convention, 6,000 attendees watched a parade of senior government officials and leading politicians pledge their uncritical support for Israel. Speakers included Vice President Dick Cheney, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, and House Minority Leader John Boehner, as well as an array of presidential candidates. Much has been made of the pressure AIPAC successfully exerted to drop a clause in the recent defense appropriation bill for Iraq and Afghanistan prohibiting an attack on Iran without congressional approval. One Democratic congressman, Rahm Emanuel of Illinois, even promised prior to any debate on the matter that the offensive language would be removed. The elimination of that clause erased the one possible impediment to White House plans to bomb the Islamic Republic.

Make no mistake, even though some Democrats are currently talking up softer options, AIPAC's 2006 convention made clear that it would like to see the United States destroy Iran's nuclear program to enhance Israel's security. The Israeli government has repeatedly made the same point, sometimes in very blunt terms, and has openly mobilized its resources in the U.S. government and the media to that end. The many Democratic congressmen who identify strongly with Israel apparently agree. Many must have reservations about supporting the hard right-wing approach espoused by recent Israeli governments, while others must appreciate the suffering of the Palestinians, but if they are troubled they prefer to say nothing...

Many Democratic politicians take their policy positions straight from AIPAC briefings, repeatedly stressing that the military option "must remain on the table" vis-à-vis Iran, which has virtually become a mantra. Many openly support creating a larger military, a sure indication of intent to wage further wars of choice against the Muslim world. Significantly, they also accept the Israeli assertion that Iran's declared and inspected development of nuclear energy already constitutes a secret nuclear weapons program, providing a convenient casus belli for a first strike. There is irony in Israel's outrage, since Tel Aviv already has a nuclear arsenal and has refused to sign the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty...

It is possible to continue indefinitely citing emotion-laden, devoid-of-fact defenses of Israel and condemnations of Muslims voiced by America's Democratic legislators, some of whom, sad to report, might actually believe what they are saying. Some commentary is particularly inflammatory, and the mainstream media, quick to report Muslim threats against Israel, has generally failed to report the invective emanating from America's own Congress...

Unless they are all lying, which is certainly a possibility, it is evident that the nominally antiwar Democratic leadership is willing to go to war with Iran to disarm it. Until the Democrats come to grips with the malignancy and impracticality of their own view of the Middle East and jettison their blind endorsement of Israel and its extremist policies, there can be no peace anywhere. Indeed, given the posturing of the Democratic Party and its firm commitment to Israel, an endless cycle of war scarcely distinguishable from neoconservative fantasies is inevitable. After Iran, Syria will be next, then Saudi Arabia, Jordan, and Egypt. America is still powerful enough to make all of that happen, though it is clear that it will not be able to glue the pieces back together again once the fighting is over. Such an outcome would not bring any real security to Israel, and it certainly would not be good for the United States...

full article by Philip Giraldi

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Chomsky
Posted by: Hedda on Apr 6, 2007 6:42 PM   
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This is a great article filled with much wisdom. I wish more people understood it.............then again, if they did--- we'd have nothing to discuss, would we. (let it sink in)

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What Chomsky Thinks
Posted by: sofla100 on Apr 6, 2007 8:46 PM   
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Chomsky's point is that essentially, US policy and it's implementation are in the service of elites. Therefore, he discusses issues like healthcare and democracy promotion from this perspective. Certainly, elites would love to keep healthcare rationed (and propped up to the highest possible profit levels as it's underwritten by mega insurance companies), government privatized (and corrupted by contractors as we have seen) and real democracy non-functional (as real democracy would take away power from the elites). Elites can be defined as the upper class in American society, primarily as reflected in net worth and ownership of the means of production. Essentially, a few thousand American families that own more than 70% of the wealth in America form the core of the elite. It's propaganda spews from the media it owns and controls, and it's rules and laws are a creation of the politicians (virtually all without exception), it has bought and paid for. American society is corrupted because only a few have a real voice in the society. Hence, criticizing countries like Iran is disingenuous and hypocritical, America simply has different mullahs (but they don't wear turbans), but it is not any the less corrupt really. Is Chomsky correct? I generally think so. As for Israel, I don't think Chomsky is any fan, he did speak out loud about the atrocities in Lebanon. However, Chomsky does tend to view Israel as a function and tool of the elites, versus a view that AIPAC for example has simply infiltrated and corrupted the American political process. My view is somewhere in the middle on that one, however.

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Just a thought
Posted by: tom@nderson13 on Apr 6, 2007 9:41 PM   
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We already know the US is looking for a fight in Iran, but we would never attack without provocation. That's probably in the works too. My belief is that something will happen in Iraq or Iran later this year that compels the US to respond in the form of aerial attacks on strategic sights in Iran. This of course, opens the floodgates in Iraq leading to a full-scale regional war (in full swing by spring 2008).

As a loyal Bushie (on the Iraq war), McCain is endorsed by the White House as the person best suited to carry on the war. With little or no foreign policy/war time political experience, Clinton, Obama, and Edwards among others lose ground as the American public grows more fearful. McCain selects Guiliani as his VP and the torch of 9/11 inspires millions to re-elect a Republican to the White House. God save us...

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Iran will be attacked this month
Posted by: Bobsays on Apr 7, 2007 2:01 AM   
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And most Americans will do nothing about it: fact. I would get a better cable package and store up some munchies: it will make good TV.

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war will end...
Posted by: Hedda on Apr 7, 2007 5:10 AM   
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when we quit commenting on it from our cozy homes. When people have no time to be on alternet discussing war... because they have taken to the streets in protest. A massive uprising for a common goal of stopping the war machine. As long as we continue to bicker amongst ourselves and debate who's right , who's wrong, who' left , who's right we are as Noam was pointing out, we remain players in a grand charade. We have the illusion of freedom and democracy, all the while the rule makers continue to commit atrocities as they wish.

Even a child knows that if he wants something and is running up against oposition from one parent , he will recruit the other parent as an ally to help plea his case .....as the two parents bicker amongst themselves, the child escapes the room and the debate..... he created a successful diversion. Now the child is free to do whatever because the parents are so involved in pleading their cause they don't even notice the child has left. On the other hand , and every child knows this as well ....if he can not get his parents into a heated debate because they side together against his wishes........He is proverbially screwed so to speak!!!! United we stand , divided we fall !!!!!!

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» RE: war will end... Posted by: xbj
Noam is a smart man
Posted by: Doggycuny on Apr 7, 2007 5:51 PM   
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Noam is correct about the need for democratic promotion at home. Unfortunately, Noam forgets one vital fact: most Americans are ignorant, apathetic sheep.

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Did US really support Russian invasion of Iran?
Posted by: Benjamin on Apr 8, 2007 11:55 AM   
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I agree with Chomsky's basic message, but I read one sentence to mean that the US supported Russia's invasion of Iran. My understanding is that the CIA coup was allegedly to prevent such a Russian invasion. Could someone outline the basic history regarding this question? Thanks

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You couldn't stop Iraq..
Posted by: JoshuaLudd on Apr 9, 2007 10:50 AM   
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What makes you think your same old tactics will stop a war with Iran???

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Captain Kirk's Solution to War in the Mideast
Posted by: xbj on Apr 9, 2007 11:50 AM   
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Captain Kirk had the REAL Democratic solution when he dealt with the same problem America has in the Mideast.

Captain Kirk would have taken accurate stock of Israel's nukes, replicated them, and then given an equal amount to EVERY OTHER ARAB AND ISLAMIC COUNTRY IN THE REGION.

Thereby creating the PERFECT BALANCE OF POWER; MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction) that would have certainly ASSURED peace in the Mideast, INDEFINITELY.

But you see, America isn't The Federation; America isn't a democracy, it is the evil Fascist Klingon Empire bent on taking over the entire Mideast. And that requires classic Klingon strategy; pick the weakest planet that will readily accept you as an ally (Israel); arm them out of all proportion to every other ally; and then destroy all their enemies one by one.

In the end, the Klingon turns on its own ally and takes it over.

This is the TRUE Amerikan design for the Mideast; it started with Iraq, will go on to Iran and Syria, and it will end with Saudi Arabia and finally, Israel.

Count on it. Israel has long already figured this out, and Saudi Arabia is waking up as well.

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