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Chomsky: Preventing War with Iran

By Noam Chomsky, Tomdispatch.com. Posted April 6, 2007.


Stopping a war with Iran requires a strong organized popular opposition.

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Unsurprisingly, George W. Bush's announcement of a "surge" in Iraq came despite the firm opposition to any such move of Americans and the even stronger opposition of the (thoroughly irrelevant) Iraqis. It was accompanied by ominous official leaks and statements -- from Washington and Baghdad -- about how Iranian intervention in Iraq was aimed at disrupting our mission to gain victory, an aim which is (by definition) noble.

What then followed was a solemn debate about whether serial numbers on advanced roadside bombs (IEDs) were really traceable to Iran; and, if so, to that country's Revolutionary Guards or to some even higher authority.

This "debate" is a typical illustration of a primary principle of sophisticated propaganda. In crude and brutal societies, the Party Line is publicly proclaimed and must be obeyed -- or else. What you actually believe is your own business and of far less concern. In societies where the state has lost the capacity to control by force, the Party Line is simply presupposed; then, vigorous debate is encouraged within the limits imposed by unstated doctrinal orthodoxy. The cruder of the two systems leads, naturally enough, to disbelief; the sophisticated variant gives an impression of openness and freedom, and so far more effectively serves to instill the Party Line. It becomes beyond question, beyond thought itself, like the air we breathe.

The debate over Iranian interference in Iraq proceeds without ridicule on the assumption that the United States owns the world. We did not, for example, engage in a similar debate in the 1980s about whether the U.S. was interfering in Soviet-occupied Afghanistan, and I doubt that Pravda, probably recognizing the absurdity of the situation, sank to outrage about that fact (which American officials and our media, in any case, made no effort to conceal). Perhaps the official Nazi press also featured solemn debates about whether the Allies were interfering in sovereign Vichy France, though if so, sane people would then have collapsed in ridicule.

In this case, however, even ridicule -- notably absent -- would not suffice, because the charges against Iran are part of a drumbeat of pronouncements meant to mobilize support for escalation in Iraq and for an attack on Iran, the "source of the problem." The world is aghast at the possibility. Even in neighboring Sunni states, no friends of Iran, majorities, when asked, favor a nuclear-armed Iran over any military action against that country. From what limited information we have, it appears that significant parts of the U.S. military and intelligence communities are opposed to such an attack, along with almost the entire world, even more so than when the Bush administration and Tony Blair's Britain invaded Iraq, defying enormous popular opposition worldwide.

"The Iran effect"

The results of an attack on Iran could be horrendous. After all, according to a recent study of "the Iraq effect" by terrorism specialists Peter Bergen and Paul Cruickshank, using government and Rand Corporation data, the Iraq invasion has already led to a seven-fold increase in terror. The "Iran effect" would probably be far more severe and long-lasting. British military historian Corelli Barnett speaks for many when he warns that "an attack on Iran would effectively launch World War III."

What are the plans of the increasingly desperate clique that narrowly holds political power in the U.S.? We cannot know. Such state planning is, of course, kept secret in the interests of "security." Review of the declassified record reveals that there is considerable merit in that claim -- though only if we understand "security" to mean the security of the Bush administration against their domestic enemy, the population in whose name they act.

Even if the White House clique is not planning war, naval deployments, support for secessionist movements and acts of terror within Iran, and other provocations could easily lead to an accidental war. Congressional resolutions would not provide much of a barrier. They invariably permit "national security" exemptions, opening holes wide enough for the several aircraft-carrier battle groups soon to be in the Persian Gulf to pass through -- as long as an unscrupulous leadership issues proclamations of doom (as Condoleezza Rice did with those "mushroom clouds" over American cities back in 2002). And the concocting of the sorts of incidents that "justify" such attacks is a familiar practice. Even the worst monsters feel the need for such justification and adopt the device: Hitler's defense of innocent Germany from the "wild terror" of the Poles in 1939, after they had rejected his wise and generous proposals for peace, is but one example.


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Noam Chomsky is the author of Failed States: The Abuse of Power and the Assault on Democracy (Metropolitan Books), just published in paperback, among many other works.

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The terms of negotiations
Posted by: Temporary on Apr 6, 2007 1:05 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The issue ultimately is about recognizing Iran as an equal player in the middle-east. Without that, you aint getting NOWEHERE!!!

To put this simple;what short of weapons the Iranians have is THERE BUSINESS! The UN is probobly the most corrupet instituion in the world, so what ever is decides has about 0% credibility or influcne at this! You still have a window to talk to them about REAL ISSUES, such as stability in the middle-east, oil prices and so on. These are REAL issues wich you can TALK TO THEM! The Nuclear issue ISN'T If you make that an issue,(as Comski himself suggests HERE,) then you can basicly kiss any talks goodbye! And a "nuclear free" middle-east is also out of the question!

Let my one more time make this clear;if you make Irans nuclear weapons an issue, you can basicly KISS GOODBYE to any furder talks on REALLY IMPORTANT ISSUES nuclear free middle-east isn't going to cut it! If America and it's allies wont give up missile-defence(for example actively planning such systems in the middle-east)and new super sonic firts strike ability under the disguise of THAAD, then you can basicly FORGET IT! You people are absolutely THE LAST here to tak about disarmament! Let my AGAIN make myself clear;nukes are basicly ALL Iran has against you! They are a LIFE INSURANCE! You ask Iran to give those up, then the talks are FINISHED! It's up to you to make decide;if you want REAL PACE, then return to Nuclear policy of the Nixon era and the 1972 ABM treaty! If you want war, then you can throw any diplomatic "peace maneuvers" in Iran, Syria, Asia or what ever, but ultimately, as long as your attitude is what it is, then THATS were were going! To HELL, and most of all, TOGETHER! Either you get this White European Supremacy BULLSHIT and "Pax America" out of your thick skull, or basicly, were ALL going to HELL! The choice is yours, but what ever choice you make, you better make it FAST!!!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: The terms of negotiations Posted by: Temporary
» RE: The terms of negotiations Posted by: douglashoyt
» Is it just me, or... Posted by: maddy
Imagine...
Posted by: dobermanmacleod on Apr 6, 2007 3:17 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
God bless such an idealistic article. Ironically, the article's truth only shows how far from the mark we are, rather than serving as a realistic prescription for where we could be. In my opinion, our environment will soon be unable to support most humans, with dying oceans, a climate that will make outdoor agriculture impractical, and even a lack of unrefined drinkable water.

I think the problem lies not in our culture, but in our genes. It has only been 200,000 years since our ancesters were rare animals on the plans of Africa. Our jungle genes are simply not ready, and will soon bring mankind back to their numbers 200K ago.

Thank goodness the universe is teeming with life, because soon our earth won't be.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Imagine... Posted by: Temporary
» RE: Imagine... Posted by: MAD
» RE: Imagine... Posted by: ankhet
» YOU ARE WRONG Posted by: Wassermann
» RE: YOU ARE WRONG Posted by: grailsnail
» Not really. Posted by: justaguy
» Extinction nothing to accept Posted by: grailsnail
» Well said Posted by: grailsnail
» Wrong Posted by: grailsnail
Resisting the Drums of War
Posted by: Roy Eidelson on Apr 6, 2007 3:58 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A few additional thoughts. The Bush administration promoted the misguided and destructive war in Iraq by targeting five core concerns that often govern our lives—concerns about vulnerability, injustice, distrust, superiority, and helplessness. Looking ahead, the continued occupation of Iraq—or an attack on Iran—will likely be sold to us in much the same way. I examine these warmongering appeals—and how to counter them—in a new 10-minute YouTube video entitled Resisting the Drums of War available for viewing at www.youtube.com/watch?v=81UKnb5zJbM.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Warmongering Posted by: LeftCoastProgressive
» RE: Warmongering Posted by: peacefullaim
Comments:
Posted by: kepstein7777 on Apr 6, 2007 4:48 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
* I like the comments on “debate.” When we bomb Iran, what color should the bombs be? Pink or purple? Discuss....

* I think Chomsky tends to overestimate public opinion, and assume that the Regime just fell out of the sky and started giving orders without any popular mandate. It seems like he tends to take his own opinions and wishful thinking and projects them onto the masses.

* And on the subject of popular opinion, what if it went back to what it was @2001-2003, when 70-90% of Americans wanted to bomb everything, including their grandma's cottage and cages full of newborn puppies? Why such a high regard for public opinion, rather than what's the right thing to do?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Are You Jewish? Posted by: ZPaul
» RE: Are You Jewish? Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Are You Jewish? Posted by: grailsnail
» RE: Are You Jewish? Posted by: HeroesAll
» You are an idiot! Posted by: Darrell Kern
» RE: You are an idiot! Posted by: deltadancer
Noam Chomsky and the Pro-Israel Lobby
Posted by: rwa on Apr 6, 2007 5:16 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
James Petras:

Despite his respected reputation for documenting, dissecting and exposing the hypocrisy of the US and European regimes and acutely analyzing the intellectual deceptions of imperial apologists, these analytical virtues are totally absent when it comes to discussing the formulation of US foreign policy in the Middle East, particularly the role of his own ethnic group, the Jewish Pro-Israel lobby and their Zionist supporters in the government. This political blindness is not unknown or uncommon. History is replete of intellectual critics of all imperialisms except their own, the abuses of power by others, but not of one’s own kin and kind. Chomsky’s long history denying the power and role of the pro-Israel lobby in decisively shaping US Middle East policy culminated in his recent conjoining with the US Zionist propaganda machine attacking a study critical of the Israeli lobby.

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» Try reading his books, rwa Posted by: fanny666
» RWA Racism Unleashed Posted by: LeftCoastProgressive
» RE: WA Racism Unleashed Posted by: EncinoM
Chomsky Explains His Weak Spine Regarding 9/11
Posted by: JMorse on Apr 6, 2007 5:31 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"In crude and brutal societies, the Party Line is publicly proclaimed and must be obeyed -- or else. What you actually believe is your own business and of far less concern. In societies where the state has lost the capacity to control by force, the Party Line is simply presupposed; then, vigorous debate is encouraged within the limits imposed by unstated doctrinal orthodoxy."

Noam Chomsky

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» Dover23..A REALLY BRAVE PATRIOT! Posted by: LeftCoastProgressive
» Put Another Way.... Posted by: CatDad
» ok ShadowDweller... Posted by: Iconoclast421
» RE: ok ShadowDweller... Posted by: ShadowDweller
follow the leader
Posted by: robmikejas on Apr 6, 2007 6:15 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
George W. Bush and his war criminal supporters have taken us to the brink of WW3 and are in the position now to engulf the entire world in war and confraglation and destruction. I agree that Iran needs to develop nukes to counter the American threat against their soverenty. If I were an Iranian, I'd be scared shitless every day at the predatory actions of Bush and his personal war making machine as well as Israel and it's nuclear power.

As an American citizen I worry everyday about our damaged and tormented image as it stands in the world today,as well as our inability to speak to the world of peace with any meaning at all. Bush sees it all as a challenge to his masculinity and therefor his natural role as a rich boy bully and cowboy conquerer of the weak. The American Empire is on the march and we the people are reduced to being the victims of an invisible coup with a demented leadership speaking in our names to the world. With even an ounce of humility and tolerance, this juggernaught of death and destruction could be brought under control, but Bush and his followers seek not peace in the world, but rather the "Rapture" and the inherent death required to bring about their goal. If we the people do not rise up soon in absolute condemnation of the Bush death march, we will see our legacy be one of a hated and defeated people and an experiment in democracy gone wrong...and a world unfit for any human progress.

Demand Impeachment now...Make Pelosi put the option back on the table and act upon it now. Send the warmongers out of the sphere of influence and into prison where they belong.

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» K(x3?)best Posted by: Knowmad
» Godwin's Law violation!!!!!!!! Posted by: justaguy
bigtime
Posted by: pnut on Apr 6, 2007 6:46 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Mr. Bush is going to start a war if we the people do not stop him. I know not how to do this, but impeach him is the best I can think of. Ms Nancy needs to be impeached who gave her the right to not impeach Mr. Bush? As I see it he must be impeached he has broken the law many times that have ment the lifes of +3000 good Americans and +600000 good Iraq people, so he must be put in prison. No one can parden him he must be impeached and now not later, we as Americans must do it if Ms. Nancy will not.( Bill Bigtime )Davidson

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IMPEACH!! IMPEACH!!
Posted by: Sweeet Pea on Apr 6, 2007 6:50 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How on earth Chomsky wrote this article without ONCE using the word "impeachment" is beyond me. I feel like I'm in the twilight zone. Every American should be standing up and demanding Bush's HEAD ON A PLATTER.

THAT IS THE ONLY WAY TO PREVENT WAR WITH IRAN!!!

www.a28.org - SPELL IT OUT!!!

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» Missing the point Posted by: ShadowDweller
» 100% Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: IMPEACH!! IMPEACH!! Posted by: CatDad
» other insurance Posted by: MartianBachelor
» RE: other insurance Posted by: Lincoln fan
» call congress 202-224-3121 Posted by: fanny666
» RE: call congress 202-224-3121 Posted by: LeftCoastProgressive
» RE: call congress 202-224-3121 Posted by: peacefullaim
» RE: call congress 202-224-3121 Posted by: fanny666
» RE: IMPEACH!! IMPEACH!! Posted by: Darrell Kern
keep it simple, chomsky
Posted by: edith on Apr 6, 2007 7:22 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
chomsky gives in the first part of his article clear, logical reasons why intervention against Iran is self-defeating, strategically wrong and not in any possible real interests of the middle east region or of the people of United States.

However, then he proceeds to concoct a shopping list of American federal spending programs other than defense, which, if adopted, would incredibly make Iran a more democratic or humane society. This alleged connection between US spending priorities and the behavior of Iranian clerical fascists is absurd.

Of course Iran should not be attacked for reasons Chomsky and others on this thread have declared. But the nutballs who run Iran could care less whether the federal govt or the states provide health insurance to 50 million uninsured Americans or whether federal aid to ranchers qualifies as energy conservation, agriculture promotion or just plain pork.

It is always interesting to observe how a great intellect like Chomsky cannot conceive of any positive programs for human welfare that are not in the firm control of the dead bureaucracy that molders in Washington DC. IF it's federal it must be "for" the people, eh, prof?

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» RE: keep it simple, chomsky Posted by: HeroesAll
» RE: keep it simple, chomsky Posted by: LeftCoastProgressive
» RE: keep it simple, chomsky Posted by: xgroverx
Moral Cowards
Posted by: shangrilalad on Apr 6, 2007 7:29 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The United States is a country ruled by morons and sociopaths.

In election after election, morons vote for underhanded, lying sociopaths who use greed, fear and hate-mongering to cater to the basest instincts of the people, which is made possible by a media owned and operated by sociopaths who inundate us with lies and propaganda 24/7.

In spite of that, we are not a nation of dupes. A majority of Americans are not fooled, instead we are a nation of Moral Cowards afraid to question authority. Rather than taking to the streets and demanding a restoration of democracy, we hunker down like beaten dogs terrified of our masters. A response that has never, and will never work against tyrants.

Bush and his fascistic regime grow bolder by the day. Let’s pray for salvation and hope that God answers our prayers quicker than He did the prayers of the Jews in Nazi Germany.

.

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» RE: Moral Cowards Posted by: maldissent
» RE: Moral Cowards Posted by: veive
» RE: Moral Cowards Posted by: Darrell Kern
the american way of life is non-negotiable
Posted by: astralman on Apr 6, 2007 7:46 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
says dick cheney, hey if you want to keep up your fetish for cars and cheap products from China and cushy suburban lifestyle then support this war, because once again this about oil people. without access to cheap oil and fuels our country is going to change big time, see the article written by kunstler a few days ago...

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DE-PROGRAM America
Posted by: metamind on Apr 6, 2007 8:02 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
References:
http://eidelsonconsulting.com/blog/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81UKnb5zJbM
http://nodes.org

This is a thought-provoking article wherein Mr. Chomsky advocates "democracy promotion" here in the United States. While that sounds like a good solution, we need to address the vast amounts of propaganda, programming and dis-information being fed to the people.

If we don't have good information and good mental programming ( virtues ) then we won't make good decisions. Let's recall how the majority of Americans supported the illegal invasion and occupation of Iraq before we lost. Now many of the same Americans who supported the Iraq war have changed their minds. But it's too late to "re-do" history. We must now live with our UNwise decision.

Democracy by itself is not a complete solution. We need wisdom, virtue and more checks on the use of military power to "solve problems." We need to DE-MILITARIZE Americans' minds. We have bad mental programming. We need to DE-PROGRAM AMERICA!

Watch the YouTube video

"Resisting the Drums of War"

for a deeper understanding of how we have been manipulated by appealing to five instinctual mental reactions to perceived threats:

Vulnerability, Injustice, Distrust, Superiority and Helplessness

We need to work on ourselves. We need to practice "tough love" with our neighbors, friends and family. We need to correct our own thinking and "get right with God" (righteousness ).

It's all US. We are the problem. We are the solution. We need to change our mind.

Democracy promotion is a good idea ... in conjunction with DE-PROGRAMMING MILITARISM and RE-PROGRAMMING CORRECT MENTAL ATTITUDES and an accurate understanding of the world we share.

Wisdom discernment is more important than democracy. What is the WISE course of action? HOW do we know it is wise? WHY is it wise?

Taking a vote from uninformed, poorly programmed people is UNWISE in my opinion.
First things first. Let's get the right programming and accurate information before we take
a vote on the wise course of action.

Patience is a virtue. Trutfulness is a virtue. Compassion is a virtue.

Let's start with these programs.

Blessings!

Steve Moyer
http://nodes.org

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--WARNING-- Chomsky Carries Water For The Status Quo --WARNING--
Posted by: JMorse on Apr 6, 2007 8:09 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
… A few of the left-wing organizations are primarily concerned about threats to media independence, yet all their attention is focused on for-profit corporate (or government control); they ignore the possible influence of large subventions from nonprofit institutions such as foundations, says [Bob] Feldman. Journalist Ron Curran maintains that: “The only money nonprofits can get these days is from private foundations –and those foundations want to control the political agenda.” [‘Buying into the News’ San Francisco Bay Guardian, 10/8/97] Another critic of the grant system, Brian Salter makes a strong case against foundation funding of left media and think tanks. After examining the corporate and political connections of Ford and similar foundation’ board members, Salter concludes: “The big establishment foundations are likely to seek out ‘alternative’ media that is more bark than bite, which they can rely on to ignore and dismiss sensitive topics… as ‘irrational distraction’ or ‘conspiracy theory.’

Salter points out that recipients of funding protest that they are not swayed by any conflicts of interest and don’t allow the sources of funding to affect their decision, “but whether these claims are actually true is already somewhat of a red herring. Judging by the journalism being offered (and not offered) by The Nation, FAIR, The Progressive, IPA, Mother Jones, Alternet.org, and other recipients of their funding, the big establishment foundations are successfully sponsoring the kind of ‘opposition’ that the US ruling elite can tolerate and live with.” [citation]

A study of Chomsky’s stands on particularly dreadful actions such as JFK’s assassination and 9/11, and the roles fo the CIA and FBI, shows Chomsky to be a defacto defender of the status quo’s most egregious outrages and their covert agency engines.

From:
Towers of Deception, Barrie Zwicker, pp. 222 – 224

“There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is a proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep [one] in everlasting ignorance –that principle is contempt prior to investigation.” Herbert Spencer

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» JMorse - Posted by: LeftWright
» Distraction? Posted by: xgroverx
Thanx again for the commentary Noam Chomsky
Posted by: Ghoulman on Apr 6, 2007 8:21 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
... you're the shabazz baby!

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MP3 Chomsky Lectures
Posted by: fanny666 on Apr 6, 2007 8:54 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Radio4All.net

Also many others, search for whatever you're interested in.

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ARTICLE WAY TOOOO LONG!
Posted by: Astro on Apr 6, 2007 9:00 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Chomsky has to learn how to get to the point. As valuable as whatever he said might be, it was way to long. He might as well hand somebody a paper to read and then pull the shades and turn off the lights. In a few sentences, somebody tell me what he said!

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» Oh my god that is sad. Posted by: fanny666
» RE: ARTICLE WAY TOOOO LONG! Posted by: peacefullaim
The inmates are running the asylum
Posted by: willymack on Apr 6, 2007 8:59 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Fresh from their stunning victories in Iraq and Afghanistan, the bush war machine is busily dusting off and slightly modifying the lies that got us into Iraq. WMD, of course, is a mandatory subject, and in the case of Iran,there is actually a viable nuclear program there.That our best intelligence and that of other nations clearly state that Iran is nowhere near ready to manufacture a nuclear device-or that it even intends to, means nothing to the chickenhawks in Washington. We can't be confusing them with facts since their minds are made up, now, can we?Peace overtures from Iran over the last several years get short shrift from the bush controlled press, or no mention at all. Some of the munitions used against our troops as well as innocent civilians in Iraq are said to have been made in Iran. Of course, no definitive proof of this is available. The word of the "administration" must be taken at face value. Oh, well; they've never lied to us before, right? The fact is that munitions can-and have been traced to China, Russia,France, the USA, and several other countries. Maybe we should attack China and Russia next. Of course, since our troop strength is practically non-existent, thanks to the bush regime's genius, we'd have to resort to bombing Teheran and other cicies to rubble. There's even talk of using nuclear "bunker-busting" bombs to pulverize deeply-buried facilities. Not to worry though; we'll use Smart Bombs, which can distinguish between military targets and innocent civilians-just as they have in Iraq and Afghanistan. What little radiation that's produced by the nuclear devices should dissipate in a few thousand years, so no problem there, either. It seems the inmates are running the asylum, folks, and as a long ago Molly once said: "Tain't funny Magee".

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BUSH & IRAN...MY FEAR
Posted by: Astro on Apr 6, 2007 9:18 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As things stand, Bush will leave office with the Iraq defeat his primary legacy. To avoid that, I SERIOUSLY FEAR he could attack Iran's atomic facilities. Despite the decade of worldwide mayhem which would follow, he could then leave office self-righteously believing he saved the world--especially the Israel part of it--from Iranian nukes. I don't want to see Iran (or any country, for that matter) in possession of nukes. However, attacking Iran's atomic facilities would be a terrible way to deal with the problem, especially for all the wrong reasons.

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i can't believe anyone believes the US would attack iran
Posted by: andrewstromotich on Apr 6, 2007 9:47 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
i still think this is all smoke and mirrors, although hitler was stupid enough to attack russia...

the us would get it's ass kicked if it tried iran, everyone outside of the us knows this, which is why most of the world ain't that worried...

the wildcard is that bush is a nutter, but fact of the matter is, the us would take massive casualties much as idf did in lebanon. this would more than likely lead to a destruction of the us military similar to what happened in russia post afghanistan. i don't think the military industrial complex would go for that.

iran it too powerful and too connected to be hit. this would force both russia and china out of it's slumber, which in some ways would be great for the military industrial complex in the us (a new cold war), but fact is it could lead to revolution in us and widespread revolt in the us military (they ain't used to taking 10k casualties in a week)...

naw, it's just a great way to redirect the antiwar folks energies...

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» blitz style attack of iran would mean... Posted by: andrewstromotich
» just a thought Posted by: tom@nderson13
» RE: just a thought Posted by: andrewstromotich
» RE: just a thought Posted by: tom@nderson13
» i hear ya, but... Posted by: andrewstromotich
» RE: i hear ya, but... Posted by: tom@nderson13
» i agree Posted by: andrewstromotich
» RE: i agree Posted by: tom@nderson13
911 Truth is the key.
Posted by: sonex on Apr 6, 2007 10:21 AM   
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Funny that Noam Chomsky wants democracy to be promoted at home... how about free speech ?

Even if a third of Americans believe that this administration was directly involved or 80% believe this administration is lying about 911, you won't find a word about it in the mainstream media. It doesn't seem to matter how much evidence is given or who comes forward.

The reason for this censorship is quite simple, 911 is being used for the justification for every actions they undertake, from the wars to the reductions of our rights and freedoms, 911 Truth could stop these criminals in their tracks and bring this whole corrupt power structure down, a frightening thought for Noam Chomsky and many others it seems...

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» RE: 911 Truth is the key. Posted by: MartianBachelor
» RE: 911 Truth is the key. Posted by: fanny666
Chomsky: Preventing War with
Posted by: pfm on Apr 6, 2007 10:36 AM   
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If “we” – that’s you and me – are frankly stupid or too timid to stand up and as loudly as necessary proclaim for our President and his minions as well as our Congress and Senate that any “war” with any country is patently stupid, then “we” most assuredly deserve the consequences of our actions or lack thereof.

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NOAM OF THE WHOPPER
Posted by: Roverton on Apr 6, 2007 11:01 AM   
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Noam, Noam
Defending your home.
Democracy-Hypocracy
In the ruins of Rome.

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I just wish they'd hurry up and get it over with
Posted by: xbj on Apr 6, 2007 12:03 PM   
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The sooner they try to nuke Iran, the sooner Nazi Amerika, and not Israel, will be wiped off the face of the map.

A case of far too little, done far too late will let a small handful of desperate greedy psychopaths push the final suicide button.

Imagine the surprise and irony as Bush and Cheney turn out to be the greatest suicide bombers of all time.

A peculiar kind of justice in that...

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Ok, I'll bite
Posted by: MartianBachelor on Apr 6, 2007 12:26 PM   
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> Surely no sane person wants Iran (or any nation)
> to develop nuclear weapons.

I consider myself sane (not all would necessarily agree) and I'd have no problem with Iran having nukes. We survived the USSR having tens of thousands of nukes for about three decades, so I don't know what the big deal would be if Iran had several or a few dozen. It could plausibly stabilize the situation by making Iran more equal in terms of military power. perhaps making us think at least twice about doing anything rash. Think of it terms of a Second Amendment for countries: "the right of the people[nations] to keep and bear arms[nukes]." The only two stable and equal configurations are either everyone has nukes or no one has them. I don't think we're going to do away with our own nukes anytime soon. We could even give Iran some of our own nukes to hasten the move to a more stable situation. -not gonna happen, but it does make some sense.

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» RE: Ok, I'll bite Posted by: fanny666
» RE: Ok, I'll bite Posted by: fanny666
Afghanistan, Iraq and Iran and then who will be next...
Posted by: mistery509 on Apr 6, 2007 12:38 PM   
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Let us compare these wars to a cancer.

When skin cancer is discovered it is taken out. (troops in Iraq)

The chemical that is causing the cancer is removed and distroyed. (Bush and cronies)

The Insurgents will have no one to fight with. They will go to their homes and families. The cancer will start to heal.

Bush can be sent to an island far away where he can sip on martinies and play with his toy soldiers.

Cheney can be put on a huge ranch where he can shoot to his heart's content.

Get a blond girl friend for Ricey and let her travel. As long as she stays away from USA.

Rumsfeld is already in his gopher hole somewhere, where he belongs.

Is this a dream or reality?

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THE REAL SOLUTION
Posted by: jende on Apr 6, 2007 1:10 PM   
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Want justice? Boycott. Deny yourself and the marketeers that promote and profit from war and other acts of human destruction. Not voting, not marching, not writing, certainly not acting violently, but boycotting is the only real way to end these horrors.

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» RE: THE REAL SOLUTION Posted by: bambic
War with Iran now is preferable to war with Iran later, however...
Posted by: ateo on Apr 6, 2007 1:24 PM   
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I don't think it will happen any time soon regardless.

A nuclear armed nation is an immovable object regionally. Iran with nukes will make all its talk of "wiping Israel and America off the map in a holy fire" seem much more realistic. Right now we can do something about Iran and all of its constant threats to the existence of the United States by its leaders. Let them get nukes and we'll be powerless to do anything to them and maybe one day they'll make good on their threats to destroy America and Israel and make an attempt.

Well, that is the scenario that will play out because the U.S. lacks the political will, not to mention the military strength, to take on Iran in a meaningful manner. With the facts as they stand today America cannot make war on Iran in a way that will result in a net positive for the U.S. All we can expect is a negative outcome. Therefore, the war will not happen and we will get to live the remainder of our days with a nuclear armed Iran constantly threatening to destroy us.

Sounds like fun.

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» No, they haven't. Posted by: justaguy
The point I got from Chomsky is that our political leadership ignores the popular will.
Posted by: Sojourner on Apr 6, 2007 1:29 PM   
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The examples he gives seem clear to me to indicate how democracy is not working in the US.

What I wonder now is whether it has always been that way and I just never noticed before? Or whether politicans have more recently become the lapdogs of monied interests that do not represent what the people want?

Anybody remember the Clinton impeachment? An overwhelming majority of Americans said, "Forget it." Instead the Rethugs had to drag us all through the drama. Looking back, does anyone think it was worth it?

More recently, contrary to a post upthread asserting that Americans wanted to nuke the whole world in 2001-02, our city streets were loaded, overloaded, with protests against the invasion of Iraq. That inspite of what now can be seen as a pattern of outrageous lies the Bush people told in order to convince the decision-makers that the invasion was necessary--even though it violates the Nuremberg decisions and marks the first time in American history that we have invaded a country that did not attack us.

OK. Teddy Roosevelt's invasion of Cuba and LBJ's of Vietnam were also based on lies. And the US invasion of Hawaii? Opps. Maybe Iraq wasn't the first time. Maybe the US has been a
colonizing power for quit