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MoveOn.org -- Successfully Executing Its Vision and Answering Its Critics

By Don Hazen, AlterNet. Posted March 30, 2007.


10 questions for MoveOn.org's co-founders Wes Boyd and Joan Blades about the recent progressive debate over how Democrats in Congress approached stopping the war in Iraq and their plans for the future.
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A New York Times headline told the story: "Senate Supports a Pullout Date in Iraq War Bill: Democratic Measure Seen as Rebuke of Policy -- a Veto is Expected."

For the first time in the painfully long four-year grind of the Iraq invasion and occupation, members of Congress -- at least the new Democratic majority, along with a handful of Republicans -- finally caught up with the population. After the loss of countless lives, enormous costs, and widespread destruction of Baghdad and much of the country, Congress confronted Bush over the financing of the war and a real timeline for ending it.

This victory is hugely precedent-setting but also modest in what it will achieve in the short run given its inevitable veto by Bush. It is however, an important first step in a still longer struggle to prevent the president and the Republican Party from continuing their unpopular and destructive Iraq policies, and hopefully isolating them, as the country moves toward the 2008 election. The ability to win this first victory was difficult and complex. It was achieved in part with the energetic and savvy support of millions of progressives and particularly MoveOn.org, the powerhouse citizen's lobby, with 3.2 million email members and significant political capital among elected Democrats due to their prodigious fundraising skills and tactical prowess.

Yet this victory, and MoveOn's role, is not without controversy. The supplemental budget bill provides funding to continue the war, while setting a date to end it, and there is disagreement on its strategic effect. There are some -- and notably a small group of the most progressive House members, including four Democratic representatives from California -- Barbara Lee, Lynn Woolsey, Maxine Waters and Pete Stark -- who in the end did not support the vote, but nevertheless made sure that Speaker Pelosi had the votes to win.

As Barbara Lee said, "I cannot stand in the way of passing a measure that puts a concrete end date on this unnecessary war." A number of peace groups also rejected the Pelosi strategy, and some activists were angry that MoveOn didn't hold out for what they feel is the more principled position.

But wanting MoveOn to stay out of the political give and take, and not take the best option the political process has to offer in the present, is to fundamentally misunderstand the organization. As blogger Matt Stoller at MyDD.com noted recently: "MoveOn was born out of an overt rejection of protest politics. The fundamental premise of the organization is based on empowering citizens to participate in the political process; it is institutionalist by nature, and has never misled its members on that point."

There has never been an organization like MoveOn, by far the most successful advocacy operation in the digital era, mastering the use of the Internet for organizing and fundraising, and holding the corporate media responsible for its misreporting and bias. But after all is said and done, MoveOn is an electoral animal, most committed to reshaping Congress to be more responsive to its citizens, and less to the bidding of insurance and drug companies, arms manufacturers, banks bleeding working class consumers dry via credit cards and overborrowing, and all the rest of the bad congressional behavior in the Bush era.

MoveOn, perhaps because of its multiple roles, is sometimes misunderstood: It is a powerful lobbying group; a sometime protest organization; and is especially well known for the tens of thousands of house parties thrown by its members across the country to raise political consciousness.

Furthermore MoveOn has a highly unusual organizational model which it calls "radical decentralization." They have a modest, "flat" organization, staffed with talented equals, all with tech skills, and with no assistants, or assistants to assistants. They operate without offices, spread around the country and think of themselves as "small and nimble."

MoveOn believes that the core problem in politics lies not with the voters, but in the dysfunctional political culture centered in Washington, D.C. Its counter to D.C. corruption and inaction, is to connect and engage the resourcefulness and intelligence of ordinary people, all made possible through the new communications technologies of the Internet.

MoveOn's founders Wes Boyd and Joan Blades started MoveOn in 1998 in order to get the Republicans in Congress over their obsession with Bill Clinton's sex life, and on with the important business at hand. Within days of launching their campaign, they had thousands of members signed up. The group, took off, bringing Executive Director Eli Pariser aboard in 2002. Nine years later they are still at it. In many ways, MoveOn has been a model of organizational stability.

Boyd and Blades live in Berkeley, Calif. AlterNet engaged them in an exchange of ideas via e-mail and phone, to get their sense of this political moment, and where it might take us. We asked them about their critics, how they evaluate their effectiveness, and the crucial battles ahead to bring about a more vibrant, fair and just society.


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Don Hazen is the executive editor of AlterNet.

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MoveOn has failed — a spectacular failure
Posted by: johnecolby on Mar 30, 2007 1:29 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's all in their own word "institutionalized". They've become an organ of the Democratic Party, or rather the reigning centralists of the Democratic Party. They did something really great, and then they blew it.

Once you become "institutionalized", which I am certain they call "rejectionist", you've lost the ability to enact true change. Yes, I reject the status quo and the choices the two-party system gives me. I will no longer accept the logic of "the lesser of two evils". This is the new sell job which people have allowed to be used to disempower them.

And MoveOn which had the opportunity to really shake things up, blew it.

They have executed something successfully — they've executed both their values and effectiveness. This article is wallpapering bullshit!

I will never volunteer nor give money to MoveOn again. And AlterNet, who I admire and do donate money to, has disappointed me with such a poor centerpiece article. Not critical alt media at all. Shame on you AlterNet!

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» If you want real grassroots Posted by: LeftWright
» RE: your post — a banal failure Posted by: johnecolby
» RE: your post — a banal failure...NOT! Posted by: LeftCoastProgressive
» RE: your post — a banal failure...NOT! Posted by: LeftCoastProgressive
» Is Move on lying to us? Posted by: citizenjoe
MoveOn, Dailykos & Air America-- the 3 most effective sources of progressive activism--profile those
Posted by: doinaheckuvajob on Mar 30, 2007 2:13 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
too, please. An interview with Markos Moulitsas and perhaps some of the top bloggers at dailykos such as Marcy Wheeler whose series on the Plame affair have become a book, would be great. Since AirAmerica was recently purchased by Sidney Green, it would be great to see an interview with him or his brother, Mark, on their vision for the future of the network and leftist media.

This was nice to see. I think some of the questions could have been of a higher caliber, but it's a good piece to let the MoveOn leaders speak so we understand what they do better.

In each instance, it is citizen participation in MoveOn, dailykos, and AirAmerica that makes each an effective catalyst for pressure on Congress, politicians and issues, and gives voice from the left on the debates of the day. We easily forget what it was like before the 3 arrived on the scene-- a virtual blackout of the left spectrum and a nearly totalitarian media. We easily forget how vast and powerful the right wing tentacles of media, think tankery, pundit wankery, and Federalist Society style blitzkrieg on our institutions leave us really behind them in most cases. These 3 grassroots efforts have had quite an impact in beginning to create a counterbalance.

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Moveon.org, what's next?
Posted by: WhatNow? on Mar 30, 2007 4:07 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If this bill is considered a victory it's not much of one. It may be a step in the right direction but it's about as big as a baby's step. I am disappointed that more was not done so you still have alot of work to do.

I kind of see it as trying to subdue the rejection the amerikan public is now showing for this war crime called Iraq. Seems like if most democrats in congress were truly decent people they would have voted and continue to vote against this war out the simple fact they wouldn't want to be complicit in war crimes. So far the democratic opposition to the war is tepid at best. Why appropriate $20 billion more than the "decider" requested? You also have to wonder what significance any of this has considering it will be vetoed.

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» Insulting the folks you want to lead Posted by: Patrick Murfin
» Insulting the folks you want to lead Posted by: Patrick Murfin
Goldwater Republican loves MoveOn.
Posted by: HughScott on Mar 30, 2007 4:28 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I joined the organization in December 2003 and attended a MoveOn Christmas party comprised of Dems, Republicans, independents and flaming liberals in seemingly uniform numbers. A bright fun-loving group.

Later that evening, a Democratic Party organizer showed up to register people. To my surprise, the partygoers threw his ass out the door and growled, "Don't come back." Yet, the GOP claims MoveOn is a DNC shadow organization.

Political rule of thumb: Whatever the RNC says, believe the opposite, especially anything about taxes and Iraq.

Hugh E. Scott, Vietnam vet, registered Republican, Goldwater conservative, RABID neocon-hater (like Barry) and the editor of King-George.biz -- the only website with hardcopy proof of White House corruption.

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» RE: Goldwater Republican loves MoveOn. Posted by: outsideagitator
A Great Model
Posted by: Urstrly on Mar 30, 2007 4:37 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As someone who signed on to MoveOn after the Bush "election," and who has been a sometimes participant ever since, I applaud Blade and Boyd for their vision of democracy. Can you imagine Grover Norquist or Pat Robertson or any of those right wing champions polling their members? It all comes from the top, and the top decides the issues. I credit MoveOn for listening to collective wisdom, for inviting and enpowering progressives to express their views and help shape strategy. There hasn't been anything like this on the left in my memory. For so long, being a liberal meant only griping and lamenting our powerlessness. No more. It amuses me when someone on cable refers to MoveOn as radical, but in a way they're right. The internet has given voice to grassroots politics and they're helpless to contain it.

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Move On Shills for the Democrats
Posted by: theskywolf on Mar 30, 2007 4:45 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Move On has done nothing more than suck at the Democrat's teat with this ridiculous piece of crap legislation to "Stop" the war.
Move On is also not interested in stopping America's longest running war, the War on Some Drugs.

Move On wastes its precious resources in trying to compromise and be good little Democrats. I'm wondering when they're going to salute AIPAC.

Skywolf.

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» Are you parrot or person? Posted by: johnecolby
» RE: Move On Shills for the Democrats Posted by: Patrick Murfin
Reality Check
Posted by: LuisaO on Mar 30, 2007 6:19 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You say MoveOn is "by far the most successful advocacy operation in the digital era," and is "most committed to reshaping Congress to be more responsive to its citizens [not corporations]." Did I miss the point at which the federal government shifted from serving corporate powers to serving citizens?

To be fair to MoveOn's staff, they have done no such thing, nor have they tried. They've tried to elect Democrats instead of Republicans. Anyone seeking fundamental change to make government responsive to citizens instead of corps should be supporting groups like Reclaim Democracy (national) or Democracy Unlimited of Humboldt County (regional, CA), not MoveOn.

People need to look at MoveOn realistically. Yes, it's become a Democratic Party organ. If you're a Democrat, embrace that. If not, look elsewhere.

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» RE: eality Check Posted by: johnecolby
» ColbyCon Posted by: LeftCoastProgressive
Threading the needle.
Posted by: Marjorie G on Mar 30, 2007 6:19 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Giving voice to the grassroots, as well as participation, the institutional nature and cover it gives to the Democratic party isn't understood.

Not always a bad thing, and no such thing as perfect, but the latest embrace of Rush Holt's Bill on election reform was a case of giving legitimacy to a bad bill and hope to those who don't understand the complicated issue.

They also following People for the American Way, an organization which prefers electronic voting for accessibility. Not correct on the issue, or speaking for members of the community, I am suspicious, and their input on the bill makes it inadequate and misleading. Really makes electronic more permanent, and Congress doesn't know the complicated issue enough to create this sweepingly large bill and vote on it.

We have to take responsibility to know the issues, even when our own 'good guy' lobbies are compromised. Like PFAW.

Also not Move-On's fault that people who click away at petitions and make phone calls need to be more discerning and get more than superficially involved.

There are many long-term problems needing more serious efforts than Move-On can provide, yet the insulated DC does listen to them, so that's a good thing.

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Tom Hastings
Posted by: hastings on Mar 30, 2007 6:41 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
MoveOn sold out to the Democrats--oh, that's right, they ARE Democrats. Looking at our war history, the Ds are just as culpable in the past half-century as the Rs. The Ds and Rs are two wings of the war party and while more and more of us are getting arrested finally offering nonviolent civil resistance to this godawful war, MoveOn has bought it, literally, by supporting a massive new infusion of money to conduct this illegal occupation. I head out shortly to perform (more) community service after my latest arrest at Republican Senator Gordon Smith's office in Portland OR. 22 of us have been arrested and more will be--partly because Smith joined MoveOn (well, really, MoveOn joined Smith) in voting for more war money. We sacrifice while MoveOn asks for more money and tries to sell good people on a bad war. It is explicable, yes, but despicable, I'm afraid.

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» RE: Tom Hastings Posted by: hellofriends
MoveOn "Vichy America"
Posted by: amacd on Mar 30, 2007 6:50 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yes, MoveOn may be having an impact on the most visible issue of the Iraq War --- only time will tell.

However, MoveOn's DCL-like triangulation of the war issue does nothing about the real issue behind the war, and all other non-democratic factors abroad and at home, namely, the Empire standing behind the facade of "Vichy America".

I have often said, " The very most important question that the American people should be asking (and looking for) in any candidate for president in '08 is not, "Where do you stand on the war?", but, "Where do you stand on the EMPIRE that has taken over our country --- an Empire of which the war in Iraq is only the biggest and most visible crime?"

"As American people, we will very soon be faced with confronting the fact that we no longer live in either a supposedly 'exceptional' country, or even a normal country. We will be faced with the reality that we live in a virtual "Vichy America" which has been fully taken over by a guileful and disguised global Empire ---- just as France in WWII had been taken over by the Nazi Empire which installed the faux goverment".

The statement of the phony Democrat so-called alternative Clinton era, "It's the economy, stupid" has now been profoundly, visibly, and dangerously replaced by the only real issue: "It's the Empire, stupid" and MoveOn just doesn't get it.

The Empire is behind the war in Iraq, the coming war in Iran and the whole nuclear war for oil in the Middle East.

Both phony parties are fully enmeshed in the Empire/

The MSM and sadly MoveOn are only enabling this Empire and the continued wars of Empire abroad, and the continuing tyranny of Empire at home.

MoveOn does not understand or work toward solution of the real umderlying problem of the occupuing global corporate Empire that has taken over our country (including both phony parties) and installed its own "Vichy America".

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» RE: MoveOn "Vichy America". I'm so proud... Posted by: LeftCoastProgressive
» Hey, LCP Posted by: amacd
» ColbyCon for Empire Posted by: LeftCoastProgressive
What is the difference between MoveOn campaigns and the Republican campaign aginst Clinton
Posted by: Swedish liberal on Mar 30, 2007 6:51 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As living in the US but with a different perspective on US politics, I never understood the campaign against Bill Clinton, its viciousness, the tone etc. I am equally aghast at the viciousness, tone etc those organisations such as MoveOn org uses.

I see MoveOn org as a mirror of the Christian Right, Christianists, within the Republican Party. I am very sceptic against True Believers it does not matter whether today are political or religious True Believers it is equally disturbing.

Andrew Sullivan writes in his new book "The conservative soul" (HarperCollins) how the conservative movement and the republican party has become to radical, to fundamentalist and to religious. He sees the conservative base values as a limited government, low taxes and live and let live, do not humbleness. “We have to be aware of what we do not know”

Todays Replican party according to Sullivan is the largest fundamentalist religious party in the history of the US. Dead sure of itself, utopian and evangelical! All the things a conservative party should not be, the In my mind the Republicans are more looking like the early socialist, True Believers know it all alls.

The Republicans have long been torn between a classic liberal part and a religious fundamentalist part called ”Fusionism” a very unlikely combination. However the evangelical part made a sharp turn away from consensus.

Andrew Sullivan says and I cannot but agree that a know it all, fundamentalist religious party that has voluntarily chosen not to attract liberals is doomed to a walk in the desert.

I am neither conservative, religious or gay so Andrew Sullivan’s project is not mine but a share his fear for Political Christianity, Christianism and as a liberal I wish that the Republican Party once more would limit the government and increase the individuals right to self determination.
This is why I am so worried about organisations such as MoveOn. The radicalisation of the Democrat party the decision to cast out liberal values, I do not wish to se the Democratic Party be a fundamentalist and socialist.

In my mind neither the Republican Party nor the Democrats can win if they do not attract those holding liberal views on the Governments, individual right to self determination, that politicians are not all power full. These values are held by some 25 % of the US population this group has decide and can in the future decide who becomes president.

Could somebody explain to me why the extremes in American politics are so extreme and vicious? Could somebody please explain to me why it is the extremist that set the US political agenda? Why are both political parties fast leaving classical liberal values?

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» Swedish Religion vs US Extremism? Posted by: LeftCoastProgressive
» RE: Swedish Religion vs US Extremism? Posted by: Swedish liberal
Bill Scheurer
Posted by: wcscheurer on Mar 30, 2007 6:58 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is a sad day for progressive journalism.

Katie Couric, Barbara Walters, Larry King. Sadly, Alternet has now joined the ranks of such hardcore "investigative" journalists with this fond indulgence.

What's next, changing their name to "Hardball -- Southpaw Style?" Heck, even Chris Matthews sometimes doesn't put the ball on a tee!

When an organization as respectable as Alternet does this kind of fluff piece -- indistinguishable from the corporate PR feeds in the mainstream media, except for its client -- it joins the ranks of softcore propagandists promoting a cause, even if a slightly more palatable one.

The "Kraft Foods of Journalism" award goes to them for this piece -- not one bit of real food in the whole concoction. (Okay, maybe getting MoveOn to give up its internal standards manual counts for something -- a bit of cheese in the mix. But, did anyone ask if they revised it in any way before going public? It wouldn't surprise me.)

Will MoveOn open itself and its records and staff to a real, thorough, journalistic investigation of their decision making and operating practices and history? Someone like Jeff Cohen, Norm Solomon, John Stauber, or Kevin Zeese. Of course not.

They will tell you their right-wing enemies would like nothing more than to discredit them. But, how could the truth discredit them? Unless they have something to hide.

How about it, MoveOn? Will you sit down with one of them?

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» RE: What is progressive journalism? Posted by: Swedish liberal
Move on--- reply to this!
Posted by: citizenjoe on Mar 30, 2007 7:08 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Move-on does what its members want? Just like Bush does what the USA wants. Move on did a poll to find out if the memberships wanted to back Pelosi over Bush. Move-on did not do a poll to find out if its members wanted to back Maxine Waters, etc. over Pelosi. This is rank and disgusting manipulation. Where is Move-on's defense against this charge?

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To be Honest, I am glad you had this interview..... I was beginning...
Posted by: Prophit on Mar 30, 2007 7:09 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
... to think Moveon.org had sold out. However, I hope they will continue to be flexible and changable as times coming up will require. I read a lot of negative here about the organization and I understand it because it was how I was feeling as well, but after this interview I now understand their perceived role in all of this and I do realize it serves an important function in plugging a real hole in the process.

I was chagrined to read their responses from our loyal opposition back in 2003 and the fear they encountered from our reps. I had surmised they were afraid, but I thought it was for their lives. After flight 93 was shot down which was probably on the way to hit the capitol bldg, and the anthrax sent to the Senate was ineffective, and then Wellstone was killed in the same manner and same timeline as Carnahan a couple of years earlier, I surmised they were afraid for their lives collectively. I got from this article they were not afraid for their lives, but politically.

If that is the case, those congress people were cowards of the highest order and given the votes like Salazar from Colorado who is a dem and voted for the Military commissions act of 2006, I am going to surmise they betrayed their constituents and their country by that vote out of political fear.

He doesn't deserve to be returned to congress and if the rest of his votes go along the same lines over the next two years, I am afraid he may have a serious challange in 2008.

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Shameful
Posted by: hellofriends on Mar 30, 2007 7:41 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
sweet. nice political statement. meanwhile thousands of people are living in hell and dying horrible deaths. maybe we should create a new political party called FUCKING REALITY.

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» Yeah! Posted by: freethink7
» RE: Shameful Posted by: dover23
» RE: Horrible deaths will be in this country..... Posted by: LeftCoastProgressive
John Walsh:
Posted by: rwa on Mar 30, 2007 8:24 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I asked her why there was no mention of the war. I pointed out that a clear and ever growing majority of voters were for that. And I informed her that Karl Rove essentially conceded that the war was Bush's Achilles heel. So if MoveOn wanted to defeat the Bushies, why not raise the war? Silence came over her. She then said, as if recalling something, that opposition to the war was "negative" and we had to have a "positive" agenda. I asked whether "Bring all the troops home now. Peace now." would amount to a "positive agenda." Silence. She did call the national office for me, but they had nothing to say in response.

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MoveOn.org Surrenders, Silence Is Complicity by Joshua Frank
Posted by: rwa on Mar 30, 2007 8:37 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's a good thing for MoveOn.org that George W. Bush was reelected. If he hadn't been, the liberal troupe would have nothing to contest. Even if the bloody occupation had continued under a John Kerry presidency (it most certainly would have), the cowering office-chair activists would have ducked behind their computer screens awaiting the return of another brutal Republican administration. Activism should never be partisan, but MoveOn.org isn't about to hold the Democrats' accountable for supporting Bush's war agenda.

I'm not even all that sure MoveOn opposes the Iraq war. Sure, they rallied opposition during the lead-up to the invasion a few years back, but since then they've done little if anything that should garner the respect of the antiwar movement. Despite Kerry's grotesque position on the Iraq war in 2004, MoveOn implored their members to donate cash to his campaign, but said nary a word about his pro-war posturing. You can't support a candidate without putting demands on their candidacy, and MoveOn's breakdown has made them all but irrelevant as an antiwar club.

Case in point. Sen. Hillary Clinton of New York has continued to support Bush's war in Iraq as well as his greater war on terror, yet MoveOn refuses to voice frustration. Instead, they support the war-hungry senator and admit they won't stand up to her during an election year...

MoveOn is nothing more than a cover for the Democratic Party... The best way to force the New York senator to change her position on the war is to run an antiwar campaign against her during 2006 from outside of the Democratic Party.

Running a campaign against Hillary within the Democratic Party, as a couple antiwar activists are doing (one a former Green, Steve Greenfield), is hopeless – for their challenges will end after the primaries. If the antiwar movement really wants to take on Hillary in the electoral arena, she has to be confronted from outside the Democratic Party right up to Election Day and beyond. That is exactly what MoveOn should advocate, but never will.

No, MoveOn.org is nothing more than a roadblock for an antiwar movement that is finally gaining speed after a bout of silence. If we want to end this war, we've got to oppose all who support it – the bigger the name, the better.

That puts Hillary Clinton at the top of the list.

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Move On - radical?
Posted by: Maryanne on Mar 30, 2007 8:45 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As a former lifelong Republican, I joined the Democratic party in order to have an opportunity to vote in primaries, which was not available to Republicans since the party presented only a single slate.

I shared the views of the Republican party, but just like Jeffords I have found that the Republican party abandoned my views and values.

My views have not changed in several decades. What were once moderate Republican positions are now described as those of the radical left wing of the Democratic party.

How does one go from moderate to radical without changing one's views? It is not we who have changed, it is the Republican Party that has changed.

The Democrats need a spine transplant, but at least they are finally making some effort. We need organizations like MoveOn to keep that party on its toes. There is no place else to go. The right wing Republicans have their own agenda and do not listen (Mr. Bush: "I do not listen to focus groups"- i.e. the American people). The Independents and third parties have no clout. Therefore, MoveOn really has little choice where to put pressure. That does not make them a wing of the Democratic party or sold out to the party. I'm sure that that organization can and will hold the feet of Democrats to the fire as needed. But right now, the Democrats need support. Otherwise the only option we have is a continuation of the unitarian Republican rule that excludes the Constitution and the American citizens.

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» RE: Move On - radical? Posted by: freethink7
» Really just one party? Not quite Posted by: Chickensh*tEagle
» RE: More than dislillusioned Posted by: Maryanne
MoveOn.org Supports Hillary and Hillary is a Militaristic Warmonger
Posted by: freethink7 on Mar 30, 2007 9:31 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
who wants to continue not only unethical Iraq war but, also supports an unethical war against Iran. Is MoveOn.org a Fake-Democrat organization? Hillary is a fake democrat – really she’s just a hard right Republican masquerading as a Democrat…..Rupert Murdoch is funding her campaign. This is repulsive and revolting.

http://www.antiwar.com/frank/?articleid=8366

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Wanting too much too soon?
Posted by: captainkona on Mar 30, 2007 9:43 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It amazes me that so many fellow "Liberals" seem to think that the damage Bush has done can be reversed overnight. It can't, get real. Nancy Pelosi isn't God. She cannot wiggle her nose and make all things bad go away. To think she can or suggest she perform the impossible is to expose ones self as naive and without understanding of how government works.

The Bill to stop the war was the only one that would have passed the Senate (as is evident by the fact that this one barely passed). A Bill that suggested an immediate pullout would have failed and left our kids in even worse shape. Quit looking the gift horse in the mouth.

We all want the war stopped yesterday. But what we want and what's going to work is, believe it or not, often two different things.

MoveOn is as close to a powerful Liberal voice as there's ever been in this country. I advise some of you to quit demanding that they bow to your every personal whim and help them do their job. Which, by the way, they have done rather well against such financial and ideological odds.

America is moving Left at such a rate it even scares "Centrists". Chill out, help out, and enjoy. We have Peace to make, a nation to rebuild, and Neo-Cons to punish.

Regards,
captainkona

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reality
Posted by: bluepilgrim on Mar 30, 2007 9:51 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
All the talk and spin and games won't change the reality: This bill is for the continuation of the war. Kucinich has it right.

As for MoveOn they can do what they want, of course, but they will do it without me. I've put far too much time and effort into opposing this war and the corrupt politics from both parties to give in to such nonsense as HR 591, "triangulation", or other such cowardly delusions. The US has no right to take the Iraqi's oil, to be in Iraq, to attack Iran, or to be an empire (failing or not). That's the truth, and any organization who can't stand up and stand for the truth (regardless of what push polls or wrongheadedness might say) get's no support from me.

In political terms, giving in by supporting the essentially meaningless HR1591 (except for giving Bush more money and grabbing the oil, and setting up even more people to die), is defeat for the people who want peace, and calling it "victory" is either disingenuous or delusional. One can not defeat evil by compromising with evil.

Both MoveOn and the Democrats have now defined themselves as part of the problem.

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» RE: reality Posted by: outsideagitator
» RE: reality Posted by: bluepilgrim
» RE: reality Posted by: LeftCoastProgressive
empowering citizens
Posted by: Lincoln fan on Mar 30, 2007 10:34 AM   
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No organization including "Move On" can empower the citizens. The people have the power all that we need is a strategy to wield it. The LIncoln Initiative provides a strategy to do just that. It is a strategy based on the successful tactics of the labor unions. That is, make demands of the people who can grant them and give an "or else". With a strong enough participation it can't fail.

The "progressives" think that it's enough to influence the Democratic Party. It's not. Both parties must obey the will of the people or we don't have "government of the people, by the people, and for the people".
Bob Reichenbach,
Director, The Lincoln Initiative.

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Move On hasn't failed
Posted by: Roberta_RansleyMatteau on Mar 30, 2007 10:43 AM   
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MoveOn is the catalyst for change. It is about time that Americans wake up to the fact that they have been duped by this fascist administration. Enough is enough. I admire MoveOn for standing up for all of us and for being brave in the face of adversity when this administration went after anyone who opposed their rule. How can anyone not see the catastrophe in Iraq? It takes an organization like MoveOn to make us see what is really going on. I find more information and more what is happening in the world through them and Alternet. So keep Moving On and keep the light shining.

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» RE: Move On hasn't failed Posted by: bluepilgrim
Ending the military occupation of Iraq is just the first step...
Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Mar 30, 2007 11:57 AM   
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If you sit back and feel good after all the US troops are brought home from Iraq, you'll be setting things up for worse to come. The US military industrial complex is moving into Africa in a big way right this very moment, and you'll be sure to see US troops sent there as well. Keep in mind that Reagan and Bush would have loved to send the entire US military apparatus into Central America in the 80's, if they could only have gotten away with it.

This concept of Empire is at the heart of the current Bush Administration agenda. The choice for the American people is the same one that faced the German people in the 1930's - do you have a democracy, with power shared among diverse branches of government, as well as fundamental rights for all citizens, or do you go with the totalitarian fascist imperial dogma?

Keep the big picture in mind, is the point. MoveOn should launch a push to impeach George W. Bush and Dick Cheney for their numerous illegal activities; this will be a necessary first step in the dismantling of the Empire. Media ownership consolidation needs to be dissolved - antitrust laws need to be enforced. Finally, the corporate/military takeover of the nation's public universities needs to be ended. SEC rules about transparency of financial ownership need to be enforced.

Seriously, if you want to fight fascism or communism(which is what needs to be done), you need to a) have a free and independent press, b) have a free and independent educational system, c) have a transparent financial system, so you can see wealth and power concentrations attempting to form, and d) make sure that all three branches of government are clearly separated from one another, and are independent power centers - judicial, executive and legislative.

Thankfully, we have the lessons of Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia to learn from. That's where this country will end up if Bush and Cheney are not held accountable for their crimes. They need to be impeached, period.

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