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For the Christian Right, Gay-Hating Is Just the Start

By Chris Hedges, Truthdig. Posted March 19, 2007.


As the Christian right works hard to make gays and lesbians second-class citizens, society needs to make a stand -- or else the same tactics will soon be used against other "social deviants."

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On the morning of March 8 in Sioux Center, Iowa, a bus parked outside a hotel was found covered with anti-gay slurs, along with a hate-filled message on a piece of cardboard reading: "God does not love feary fags."

The bus was one of two that were transporting some 50 lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender students, along with supporters, on the start of a two-month trip to 32 Christian colleges with policies that discriminate against those who are not heterosexuals. The Equality Ride, as it is known, organized by Soulforce, had first traveled to Sioux Center to visit Dordt College, a school that counts "sexual activity with someone of the same gender" as possible grounds for "an employee's discharge or a student's dismissal."

The harassment is not new. During a similar series of protests last year, someone in Cleveland, Tenn., scrawled "fags-mobile" on the side of the bus. Members of the Equality Ride have been arrested for trespassing, at the West Point military academy and elsewhere, and greeted at many of their stops with active hostility. The night before the buses were spray-painted with hateful slogans, three vehicles circled the hotel where the activists were staying to harass those inside.

The website has more on the ride, including pictures of the bus graffiti. But what is important is not this specific incident, or any other recent examples of public intolerance, but the seismic shift in public mood in much of the United States, a shift largely engineered by the radical Christian right. The Christian right has begun to strip gays and lesbians of their constitutional rights and render them second-class citizens. The gay rights movement, which made many gains over the past couple of decades, is reeling backward. And the mounting persecution of gays and lesbians is ominous not only for them but for the rest of society.

I spent two years reporting and writing "American Fascists: The Christian Right and the War on America." At the numerous gatherings I attended around the country, one of the driving forces and most effective mobilizing agents was the issue of sexuality. This mass movement, led by figures such as James Dobson, claims that tolerance of "alternative lifestyles" is eroding the American family. They describe "same-sex attraction" as a disease that can be cured. And they condemn all sexual love that is not heterosexual as an abomination in the eyes of God.

Gays and lesbians still within the church, seeking desperately to deny their sexuality and remain in the Christian collective, often suffer severe depression and blows to their self-esteem. The U.S. surgeon general's office has published data indicating that those who are young and gay are two to three times more likely to commit suicide. Those who conform, no matter what the personal cost, will find acceptance. Those who remain militant, who stand up for another way of being, must be silenced. The methods that will finally sever them and their supporters from a Christian America are often left unmentioned, but the rhetoric makes clear that there will not be a place for them. Gays and lesbians, like other enemies of Christ, are not fully human. They are "unnatural." And preachers in the movement argue that if America does not act soon to eradicate homosexual behavior, God will punish the nation.

These attacks mask a sinister agenda that has nothing to do with sexuality. It has to do with power. The radical Christian right -- the most dangerous mass movement in American history -- has built a binary worldview of command and submission wherein male leaders, who cannot be questioned and claim to speak for God, are in control and all others must follow. Any lifestyle outside the traditional model of male and female is a threat to this hierarchical male power structure. Women who do not depend on men for their identity and their sexuality, who live outside a male power relationship, challenge this pervasive cult of masculinity, as do men who find tenderness and love with other men as equals. The lifestyle of gays and lesbians is intolerable to the Christian right because its existence is a threat to the movement's chain of command, one they insist was ordained by God.

This hypermasculinity, which crushes the independence and self-expression of women, is a way for men in the movement to compensate for the curtailing of their own independence, their blind obedience to church authorities and the calls for sexual restraint. The images of Jesus often show him with thick muscles, clutching a sword. Christian men are portrayed as powerful warriors. Jesus' stoic endurance of the brutal whippings in Mel Gibson's movie "The Passion of the Christ" presages the brutal, masculine world of this ideology, a world that knows little of tenderness, personal freedom, nurturing and even pleasure. Jerry Falwell, in a New Yorker interview, said Christ was not a gentle-looking, willowy man: "Christ was a man with muscles," he insisted. Falwell and Gibson see real men, godly men, as powerful, able to endure physical pain and suffering without complaint. Jesus, like God, has to be a real man, a man who dominates through force. The language of the movement is filled with metaphors about the use of excessive force and violence against God's enemies.


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Chris Hedges is the former Middle East bureau chief for The New York Times and the author of "American Fascists: The Christian Right and the War on America" and "War Is a Force That Gives Us Meaning."

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They Are What They Are
Posted by: edith on Mar 19, 2007 1:24 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
'Gays and lesbians still within the church, seeking desperately to deny their sexuality and remain in the Christian collective, often suffer severe depression and blows to their self-esteem.'

I take this to mean gays want to be accepted and loved as gays by traditional religion. News flash: It ain't ever gonna happen. OK?

Clearly, religions that preach love of fellow man, especially love that derives from "God's" love of man, are hypocritical to the extent that they promote hate against gays or any other group. But it is naive of the author to believe that any traditional religions-not only Christian- will consider homosexualtiy moral or acceptable. The Bible, the Koran, and traditional Christian, Jewish and Muslim commentators all denonce homosexuality as immoral and unnatural. Adherents of the traditional strains are not going to be moved by the "it's not fair argument" any more than a clique at high school would include irratiionally or not every student at the school. Government can't and shouldn't discriminate on the basis of sexual orientation. Non-government organziations like churches however are protected by the First Amendment to be as intolerant of outsiders as they like, short of violence and active harassment.

The author reveals his real desire however is not just to be let alone but to be "accepted" by religion, when he quotes his Divinity School professor who equates discrimination against gays with Nazism. The Nazis, though, essentially repressed everyone who wasn't a Nazi, including German heterosexual Christian dissenters. So the tired references to the Nazis as the gold standard of repression is unhelpful.

The fact is that "left wing" religious movements-Reconstructionist Jews, Unitarians, the leadership for the most part of the US Episcopal Church-do tolerate and encourage participation in congregagational life by gays. Inclusion is now a feature of the US religious left. That is not enough for the author, however. He wants to be loved by everybody and he wants everybody, doctirne notwithstanding, to include and encourage gay members and pride. The traditionalists however, are who they are, and they have the same right as gays to be mistaken, foolish or hypocritical. That does not make them Nazis anymore than it makes supporters of gay rights utopian Communists.

Until St Paul is excluded from Christian doctrine, or small groups of rabbinical panels lose their power to rule over the Orthodox Jewish community, homosexualilty will not be considered anything but sinful, reason aside. After all, religion is not based on reason, except for the numerically small sects like Unitarians, Reform Jews and other "liberal' religions. Fundementalism believes in irrational causes of problems and in irrational solutions. Bible-based religion is not science, and it doesn't pretend to be. It is tedious to see the author trying to make the Falwells into something they are not, as it is tedious to see "Christians" trying to make gays into someithing that they are not.

Thus, namecalling by gay supporters is no better than the shouts of small group of Christian thugs who use the slur "fag" against gays.

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» Hedge's Nazi Example is Spot On Posted by: lessbread
» RE: They Are What They Are Posted by: mwildfire
» RE: They Are What They Are Posted by: boing007
» RE: They Are What They Are Posted by: Aimleft
» RE: They Are What They Are Posted by: hms2004
» christianists are tooooo funny. Posted by: catnapping
» RE: They Are What They Are Posted by: Ian MacLeod
» RE: They Are What They Are Posted by: yellow
» RE: They Are What They Are Posted by: hassanomara41
» RE: They Are What They Are Posted by: yellow
» RE: They Are What They Are Posted by: robbins-sandra
I Consider Myself A Christian
Posted by: ZPaul on Mar 19, 2007 2:23 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Until St Paul is excluded from Christian doctrine, or small groups of rabbinical panels lose their power to rule over the Orthodox Jewish community, homosexualilty will not be considered anything but sinful, reason aside."

I´m one of those people who consider themselves Christian without believing the idiocies and injustices that Paul preached. But of course, traditional Christians will call me a "backslider", that I have to take every word inside that book as the unquestionable Word of God(often using quotes from that book as "proof" and justification for that doctrine) I don´t. But I do believe in love, and that´s what I think Jesus is all about. So I consider myself a Christian.

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» The "Word of God" Posted by: paulaH
If the Goddamned (literally) Nazis really wanted to protect marriage/family, they'd outlaw divorce
Posted by: xbj on Mar 19, 2007 3:58 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That simple statement and its obvious repercussions exposes their entire anti-Christian fake crusade for exactly what it is; a way to foster hatred and intolerance and profit off the power it provides. Exactly as the Nazis before them; same tactics, different targets.

Homosexuality has had NOTHING to do with the breakup of the family and marriage; on the contrary, quick and easy divorce, quicky temporary "marriages", and "til we fall out of lust" "marriages", preferably with as many kids as possible to add to the misery, DO. If ANYTHING has profaned the institution of marriage irreparably, it is this, not two men or two women willing to endure the ravages and hatred of 50% of bigoted anti-Christian Amerika just to be together and love each other legally.

But outlawing divorce would strike a little too close to these closet-cases and middle-aged kiddie porn addicts married to outright frigid shrews and they most definitely want the option to be able to dump them at any time for the next willing young pretty piece of ass willing to whore herself out to power and money.

So don't worry; they'll never outlaw divorce, and that only proves they don't give a Goddamn about marriage and the family; not really.

They only want a covenient target to pit their hatred and rage and impotence against.

Every last one of these bastards will answer to the god they worship directly for every bit of their evil, and I wouldn't want to be in their melting shoes for a trillion dollars when they discover that THEIR god was Lucifer all along and he starts EATING THEM.

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Leave gays alone.
Posted by: HughScott on Mar 19, 2007 3:59 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm a retired Continental Airlines captain who flew with gay pilots. I didn't care what their sexual orientation was, as long they operated my jetliner safely. Never did I work with a gay pilot who wasn't a good stick.

But more than that, I enjoyed their company. Generally speaking, gay pilots were interesting chaps. They appreciated the finer things of life, such as art, plays and literature, and most importantly, were not narrow-minded bigots like Christian rightwingers. I flew with a lot of those jerks as well.

Hugh E. Scott, editor of King-George.biz -- the only website with hardcopy proof of White House corruption.

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» RE: Leave gays alone. Posted by: psychochurch
» To psychochurch Posted by: HughScott
Good luck with that
Posted by: kepstein7777 on Mar 19, 2007 4:43 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
These folks talk about men being the "leaders" of their household, because the Bible says so? Try changing the color of the walls in your kitchen, or forgetting to take out the trash, and see how that works out for you.

I say we let these guys try to take over the household, and let them hang themselves.

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» "cult of masculinity"? Posted by: MartianBachelor
» RE: "cult of masculinity"? Posted by: cmaciain
» RE: "cult of masculinity"? Posted by: Ocean tides
» RE: "cult of masculinity"? Posted by: oregoncharles
Why don't Christians understand?
Posted by: kww355 on Mar 19, 2007 4:53 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The biblical injunction against homosexuality was written for one reason and one reason only. Gay sex won't result in children. It's a direct refutation of the "be fruitful and multiply" idea.

If Christians didn't have lots of children, they couldn't attain power in numbers. Some Catholics, Mormons and fundies still adhere to it. Google the "quiverfull" movement...it'll scare you to death.

The world population is bursting at the seams. We don't need any more people. But since the writers of the bible framed homosexuality as an abomination ( for their own purely practical reasons ) , the fundies of today support an injunction that has long outlived its usefulness.

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» Well, no Posted by: stormchilde1975
Hate crimes
Posted by: underledge on Mar 19, 2007 5:18 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Where are the "authorities" when HATE Crimes are committed? If buses carrying Jewish groups were spray painted with anti Jewish slogans, etc., it would be front page news.

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» RE: Hate crimes Posted by: yellow
» RE: Hate crimes Posted by: psychochurch
» RE: Hate crimes Posted by: cbcb
THANKS, RELIGION
Posted by: LMNOP on Mar 19, 2007 5:20 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Just another gift to society from Christianity and another illustration of the truth that religion, especially this vile American form of it, is a pox on humanity. So many people are deceived by the greatest lie ever told and believe just the opposite. They believe that the rest of us are prejudiced and just don't understand how good they really are.

I'll tell you what, Christians. Get your people to do ONE THING that non-Christian society agrees is worthwhile and I'll stop thinking of you as completely useless parasites. And no, telling other people not to lie and steal from the pulpit every Sunday while you lie and steal yourself doesn't count; neither does passing out Bibles and tracts.

The religious just keep arguing, "were good, really we are!” but all that we get from religion is problems like this one. We'll be the judge of whether you people are good for the rest of us or a disease. I vote disease.

Its time to stop pussyfooting with the people who disseminate this contagion and call them what they are. Good people don't treat other people like that, and Christians are not good people. Nobody but Christians say that they are.

Those of you who contribute money to them or advocate their program are just as guilty even if you don’t actively preach hate. You know (or should know) how your organization feels about gays and how it speaks about them and treats them, and yet you subsidize those people every week. This philosophy puts Christianity in the good company of other famous gay-haters: the Nazis and the Klan. Nice list.

Now, here’s where the Christians tell me how outraged they are that somebody would dare criticize Christianity. Too bad. I have no more tolerance left for such an organization or its members. If you support organized religion in America, then you are also supporting it’s jihads on liberalism and democracy in general, and gays in particular. Those who understand this do a disservice to the rest by giving the religious a pass because they don't know better and they appear to mean well. So what?

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» Bigotry is not religious Posted by: chomsky
» RE: THANKS, RELIGION Posted by: cmaciain
» Thanks for clearing that up for us. Posted by: MatthewSavage
Why is Religious Right So Hostile?
Posted by: jeremy on Mar 19, 2007 6:04 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Richard Dawkins asks "what's wrong with religion? Why be hostile?" in the book The God Delusion.

He points out, with a quote from George Carline, that the Religious Right "has actually convinced people that there's an invisible man -- living in the sky -- who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not wnat you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he had a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time ... But He loves you!"

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The Root of All Evil - The Virus of Faith
Posted by: jeremy on Mar 19, 2007 6:08 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The British television documentary "The Root of All Evil" helps explain why some religions are so hostile. The full documentary can be viewed on YouTube.com, at the following links:
--
The Root of All Evil - The God Delusion (Part 1 of 2)
(48 minutes)
--

The Root of All Evil - The Virus of Faith (Part 2 of 2)
(43 minutes)

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Every body needs somebody to hate
Posted by: solrev on Mar 19, 2007 6:12 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This author has little understanding of Christians and the motivations of Christians. All this mumbo jumbo about male power because Jesus was a male is not even a part of the Christian mind set. The Jews that knew Jesus and could listen to him teach did not follow him because he did not carry a sword. The savior they wanted would deliver them from the Romans. Jesus taught a different worldview. Jesus warned us that there would be many false churches. Jesus said that many would come to him in the end time and claim to have prophesized in his name and to have done good works in his name. Jesus would say unto them “I did not know you”. However I agree with the author that pagan Christians like Falwell are dangerous. There is nothing more dangerous than a pagan Christian doing God’s work. Promise a pagan twenty virgins or what ever floats their boat and they are capable of anything. This has more to do with people being human than Christian or Muslim. There is an inherent conflict between churches and Christians. Churches are required within Christian life to suffer the children to come unto Jesus. Churches are places to learn they are our schools. Unfortunately, church leaders are often more concerned with the wellbeing of the church than the faith of the members. It is hard for a church to survive if they teach the people to go into their closets and say the Lords prayer. A personal relationship between you and God enables you to follow the teachings of Jesus. So when a pagan like Falwell has the opportunity to create a false church he takes it. The deceivers are like the poor they will always be with us. We will hate Homo Joe to prove to God that this is the true church. Most false churches do this to some degree pick a sin and birds of a feather will flock together. This is a problem within the Christian community to solve. The Christian community will solve this. This is why Jesus came the first time; he came for the lost sheep.

Imagine this, Homo Joe is standing before God in the end time. God says to Joe, dam Joe you followed the teachings of Jesus as well as I expected any human being to do. However, since you’re a homo you got to be punished for all eternity. It is a good thing that Christians believe God dispenses grace and not God Falwell. We do unto others, as we would have them to unto us and we let God dispense grace.

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» RE: very body needs somebody to hate Posted by: abstractedaway
Communist Party agenda of 1963 items 1-15
Posted by: OhioPatriot on Mar 19, 2007 6:25 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I read with sadness the vicious attack this writer has made against organized religion. But I have saw it so many times before here and other places that I have almost become accustomed to it.

I am not particularly alarmed by this hatefull article itself.

What follows does alarm me, It is the agenda of the communist party in 1963, unedited, it seems they succeded in most of thier agenda, but under what name?

You are about to read a list of 45 goals that found their way down the halls of our great Capitol back in 1963. As you read this, 39 years later, you should be shocked by the events that have played themselves out. With the help of the ACLU (itself a communist organization from inception), most all of thier agendas have come to flourish
For the purposes of this discussion please read item 28.

Communist Goals (1963) Congressional Record--Appendix, pp. A34-A35 January 10, 1963

Current Communist Goals EXTENSION OF REMARKS OF HON. A. S. HERLONG, JR. OF FLORIDA IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES Thursday, January 10, 1963 .

Mr. HERLONG. Mr. Speaker, Mrs. Patricia Nordman of De Land, Fla., is an ardent and articulate opponent of communism, and until recently published the De Land Courier, which she dedicated to the purpose of alerting the public to the dangers of communism in America.

At Mrs. Nordman's request, I include in the RECORD, under unanimous consent, the following "Current Communist Goals," which she identifies as an excerpt from "The Naked Communist," by Cleon Skousen:

[From "The Naked Communist," by Cleon Skousen]

1. U.S. acceptance of coexistence as the only alternative to atomic war.

2. U.S. willingness to capitulate in preference to engaging in atomic war.

3. Develop the illusion that total disarmament [by] the United States would be a demonstration of moral strength.

4. Permit free trade between all nations regardless of Communist affiliation and regardless of whether or not items could be used for war.

5. Extension of long-term loans to Russia and Soviet satellites.

6. Provide American aid to all nations regardless of Communist domination.

7. Grant recognition of Red China. Admission of Red China to the U.N.

8. Set up East and West Germany as separate states in spite of Khrushchev's promise in 1955 to settle the German question by free elections under supervision of the U.N.

9. Prolong the conferences to ban atomic tests because the United States has agreed to suspend tests as long as negotiations are in progress.

10. Allow all Soviet satellites individual representation in the U.N.

11. Promote the U.N. as the only hope for mankind. If its charter is rewritten, demand that it be set up as a one-world government with its own independent armed forces. (Some Communist leaders believe the world can be taken over as easily by the U.N. as by Moscow. Sometimes these two centers compete with each other as they are now doing in the Congo.)

12. Resist any attempt to outlaw the Communist Party.

13. Do away with all loyalty oaths.

14. Continue giving Russia access to the U.S. Patent Office.

15. Capture one or both of the political parties in the United States.

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Look, folks -- a dinosaur!
Posted by: Moonray on Mar 19, 2007 6:50 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Can you believe this crap? I thought all these people were dead. It's like finding a Japanese soldier still hiding on Guam. Oh well, at least time has rendered Ohio Patriot harmless -- except for his or her contributions to the Religious Right.

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» RE: Look, folks -- a dinosaur! Posted by: OhioPatriot
RE: Communist agenda 1963 (16-42)
Posted by: sbrooks on Mar 19, 2007 7:41 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm not sure I understand the point you are trying to make. Perhaps you could explain what you're getting at? This is not a "snipe," by the way. I am genuinely curious.

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» RE: Communist agenda 1963 (16-42) Posted by: OhioPatriot
» Challenge Accepted Posted by: sbrooks
» Impending communist takeover. Posted by: kittynboi
» Oh My GAWD Posted by: Aimleft
» RE: Communist agenda 1963 (16-42) Posted by: OhioPatriot
Objection! Relevance!
Posted by: lawstudent08 on Mar 19, 2007 10:57 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What does a list of communist goals in the 1930s have to do with the author's essay on Christianity and rampant homophobia and discrimination against GBLTs? Comments like these should be removed. Do not eat up comments pages with irrelevant rants.

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» RE: Objection! Relevance! Posted by: OhioPatriot
» Removing comments like tapx17 Posted by: freedomhawk
RE: "Commie...1963: What A Lame Post!!!
Posted by: ZPaul on Mar 19, 2007 11:48 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Your post is outstanding in its pure, unadulterated lameness. I suggest you go back to watching your Super 8 black-and-white anticommunist propaganda films from the early 60s and leave this board to people who want to express something other than lame propaganda reminiscent of the McCarthy era.

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RE: Communist agenda 1963 (16-42)
Posted by: kittynboi on Mar 19, 2007 12:44 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So, should we go back to making being gay a crime and allowing parents to put their gay kids in mental hospitals and subjecting them to electroshock?

Is that what you want?

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Fouridation is gonna get you too General Ripper!!!
Posted by: lessbread on Mar 19, 2007 1:41 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
General Jack D. Ripper: Mandrake, do you realize that in addition to fluoridating water, why, there are studies underway to fluoridate salt, flour, fruit juices, soup, sugar, milk... ice cream. Ice cream, Mandrake, children's ice cream.
Group Capt. Lionel Mandrake: Lord, Jack.
General Jack D. Ripper: You know when fluoridation first began?
Group Capt. Lionel Mandrake: I... no, no. I don't, Jack.
General Jack D. Ripper: Nineteen hundred and forty-six. Nineteen forty-six, Mandrake. How does that coincide with your post-war Commie conspiracy, huh? It's incredibly obvious, isn't it? A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual. Certainly without any choice. That's the way your hard-core Commie works.
Group Capt. Lionel Mandrake: Uh, Jack, Jack, listen, tell me, tell me, Jack. When did you first... become... well, develop this theory?
General Jack D. Ripper: Well, I, uh... I... I... first became aware of it, Mandrake, during the physical act of love.
Group Capt. Lionel Mandrake: Hmm.
General Jack D. Ripper: Yes, a uh, a profound sense of fatigue... a feeling of emptiness followed. Luckily I... I was able to interpret these feelings correctly. Loss of essence.
Group Capt. Lionel Mandrake: Hmm.
General Jack D. Ripper: I can assure you it has not recurred, Mandrake. Women uh... women sense my power and they seek the life essence. I, uh... I do not avoid women, Mandrake.
Group Capt. Lionel Mandrake: No.
General Jack D. Ripper: But I... I do deny them my essence.

Memorable quotes

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Honor human sexuality
Posted by: maryelizmc on Mar 19, 2007 6:33 AM   
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Good people and Chris Hedges-- May I invite you to take a look at how our culture and institutional religion generally recognizes and accepts human sexuality, be it female, male or homo. We are in denial that sexuality is as good and important function of our body as are the heart and brain. We exploit it, we destroy it with abuse and assault, forbid it, deny it, trash it. Until we accept the goodness of sexuality as an important and integral aspect of our humanity, we are in a sexual quagmire of hopeless darkness. My words come from experiencing horrific destruction of my humanity through emotional, physical and mental abuse of my sexuality. I grew up with this cloak of lies and denial and continue to fight and struggle with our human ecology of denial as I embrace for the first time the wonder of my sexuality now that I am well into the life of my seventh decade on earth. Slamming the Christian right will not do it; I invite each of us to take a deep breath and look within ourselves to decide how we can make a difference without. Then we can stand as mindful people of soul and spirit who honor, not desecrate, human sexuality. Soul, spirit and sexuality with the mind constitute the essence of being human created by God.

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» RE: Honor human sexuality Posted by: maestra
Solrev's comment spotlights real problem -- religion itself
Posted by: Moonray on Mar 19, 2007 6:44 AM   
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Notice the comment by solrev, above. Here is a religious "moderate" who explains that the religious right is merely an aberration; that the TRUE version of the Christian religion is not so bad. And therein lies the real problem: Many people insist on sticking to their version of irrational belief even when doing so blatantly empowers fascists and bigots.

Solrev tells us what Jesus REALLY said, as if those silly "gospels" -- tales cobbled together decades and centuries after Jesus' death, by people with many political, religious and cultural axes to grind, accurately reflect his words. (That's assuming Jesus existed at all; he might have been a legend like Robin Hood. In one "gospel" not included in the Bible he had magical powers and could fly!)

It's all so depressing. If we humans don't move beyond religion soon, it will be the end of all of us -- "moderates" and all.

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Homosexuality and the Nazi Party
Posted by: boing007 on Mar 19, 2007 7:17 AM   
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Link to this article:

http://www.leaderu.com/jhs/lively.html

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Yet Another Wedge Issue
Posted by: JMorse on Mar 19, 2007 7:21 AM   
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This article purports to expose yet another sordid chapter of despicable behavior by the Christian Right in its attack on defenseless gay, lesbian, and transgender students. It’s an ugly picture and the author skillfully inflames our sense of righteous indignation effectively directing the focus of our rage in pointing a finger directly at the Christian Right and thundering: “They are to blame, for shame!”

But read this article again from the perspective that the article’s intent is to intensify the inflammation of our antipathy towards the Christian Right. A false flag attack, aimed not only at the Christian Right, but ALL Christians. Who was it, really, that spray-painted the buses? Without objective proof, the author claims to have the answer, and provides it. It was the Christian Right, obviously.

How do you know the author is telling the truth?

Ask yourself honestly. Do you know his word has currency anymore than that you “know” the government is telling the truth when it states uncategorically that 19 Arabs hijacked 4 planes on September 11th and somehow managed to bamboozle our $40 billion-a-year defense system? There is conclusive ‘proof’ in neither the former nor latter case.

Are there bigoted conservative Christians? Sure there are, and we see plenty of bigots in every segment of society, without exception. Can all conservative Christians be labeled bigots? Not in my opinion, anymore than can any other group be tarred with the same broad brush.

To me, this looks like yet another wedge issue –like so many others, whose sole purpose is to divide a people against itself. The technique is effective, and our society has unwittingly been paying a heavy price for its use for a very long time.

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Your own words condemn you
Posted by: SayBlade on Mar 19, 2007 7:58 AM   
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edith posted:
"Until St Paul is excluded from Christian doctrine, or small groups of rabbinical panels lose their power to rule over the Orthodox Jewish community, homosexualilty will not be considered anything but sinful, reason aside."

ZPaul posted:
"I´m one of those people who consider themselves Christian without believing the idiocies and injustices that Paul preached..."

The scenario Hedges describes is a worldview peculiar to the Christian Right America that is binary.

ZPaul and edith's view of Pauline writings is also binary. They have chosen to accept the so-called Christian Right's binary interpretation and dismissing it without bringing their own understanding of what Paul wrote and the context it was written. Sorry, but the writer known as Paul writes NOTHING about homosexuality or homosexual relationships and there is nothing to indicate he was against them. It is a mistake to believe that he saw women as second class and that they should behave accordingly.

Don't let the Christian Right shove you into a box like that!!! Get your own ideas about Biblical, Qu'ranic writings out of their cages! Open your minds! Free your hearts!

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» RE: Your own words condemn you Posted by: ladyoracle
» RE: Your own words condemn you Posted by: SayBlade
Why There Should Be A Wall
Posted by: NoPCZone on Mar 19, 2007 8:05 AM   
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This is exactly why there should be a clear line drawn between faith- any faith- and the government. There is an old joke about asking 4 Theologians what a passage means and getting 6 opinions.

Faith is personal and private and should be as free as possible up to the point that it intrudes upon that of others or advocates actions dangerous to public safety or other's rights. What the NeoCon Evangelicals have forgotten is that mixing the government with any faith group will eventually corrupt the group more than they will ever influence the government.

As a Christian, I have a message for all who claim also be followers:
We live in a highly and increasingly diverse nation and world that practices a wide range of faiths and beliefs. Respect and tolerance of everyone else's choices in a secular state is the only way such a country and world can live in peace. The Christian faith is, among other things, predicated upon the concept that God has given each person the freewill choice to accept or reject the good news. Knowing this, you should be able to abide by the fact that others have views of faith and morality different from your own.

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And now a word from our sponsor...
Posted by: anonimus1 on Mar 19, 2007 8:15 AM   
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Anthropocentrism (Greek άνθρωπος, anthropos, "man, human being", κέντρον, kentron, "center") is the practice, conscious or otherwise, of regarding the existence and/or concerns of human beings as the central fact of the universe. This is similar, but not identical, to the practice of relating all that happens in the universe to the human experience. To clarify, the first position concludes that the fact of human existence is the point of universal existence; the latter merely compares all activity to that of humanity, without making any teleological conclusions.

"Seek not to cut the root of phenomena, but to cut the root of the mind. If you have to cross a field covered with thorns, and you try to cover the field with leather, you won't succeed. It is far simpler to cover your feet with leather."
~Sogyal Rinpoche, Tibetan Buddhist master

People are always looking outwards, at people and things around them. They look at this hall, for example, and say, “Oh, it’s so big!” Actually it’s not big at all. Whether or not it seems big, depends on your perception of it. In fact this hall is just the size it is, neither big nor small. But people run after their feelings all the time. They are so busy looking around and having opinions about what they see that they have no time to look at themselves.
~Ajahn Chah

"Try to be mindful, and let things take their natural course. Then your mind will become still in any surroundings, like a clear forest pool. All kinds of wonderful, rare animals will come to drink at the pool, and you will clearly see the nature of all things. You will see many strange and wonderful things come and go, but you will be still. This is the happiness of the Buddha."
~Ajahn Chah